WEBVTT - Interview With Bruce Tuchman: Masters in Business (Audio) 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.199 Brought to you by Bank of America Merrill Lynch, committed 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.280 to bringing higher finance to lower carbon named the most 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:10.280 innovative investment bank for climate change and sustainability by the banker. 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.920 That's the power of Global Connections. Bank of America North 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:19.560 America member f d i C. This is Masters in 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.360 Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. This week on 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.640 the podcast, I have Bruce Tuckman. He helped bring a 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:31.720 number of US channels overseas, number of television channels like 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.640 Sundance and a m C and MTV and Nickelodeon and 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.400 a bunch of others. Uh. Global Uh. And we really 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.479 have a fascinating conversation, especially when we get loose in 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:50.159 the podcast portion talking about the future of video and 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.199 what it's gonna look like. Uh. This is an industry 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:59.040 very much influx with both a rich um collection of 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.520 original content. He describes us at at peak television and 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.240 there's no to go but down from here because it 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:11.399 is so overwhelmingly excellent. But the nature of television is changing, 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.800 the nature of content distribution is not going to be 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:16.760 what it used to be, where it's just a fat 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.800 cable or or satellite to your house and you buy 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:25.040 a package in that that's it. Video on demand, streaming, downloading. 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:30.680 These are having major changes on how the industry is progressing, 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.319 and it's really in a period of dynamic flux. So 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:39.600 if you at all are interested in content creation, or 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.600 in how the nuts and bolts of of content gets 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.160 distributed around the world, or really what the state of 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.200 media is gonna look like in five, ten, twenty years, 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.800 I think you'll really enjoy this conversation. So, with no 0:01:54.920 --> 0:02:01.560 further ado, my conversation with Bruce Tuckman. This is Masters 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:06.160 in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. My special 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.320 guest today is Bruce Tufman. He began his career as 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.840 an m and a attorney at Scandon Arps before entering 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.160 the world of television, where he helped bring such brands 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:24.560 as MTV, Nickelodeon, Sundance Channel, and a MC to a 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.120 global audience, taking American content to more than a hundred 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:34.200 and forty countries around the world. Bruce Tuffman, Welcome to Bloomberg. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.040 Very good to be here. I appreciate your having me so. 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:41.560 I found your background really fascinating. Um, you're an expert 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:46.880 on video content on modern television streaming and video one demand. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.320 So we'll get into Amazon, Netflix and a whole bunch 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.480 of of related companies in a few minutes. But you 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.040 began your career as a corporate m and a attorney. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.440 How do you go from that to essentially running a 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.920 handful of television networks? Um? It seemed less secuitous. I 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.560 supposed to me. UM. I always had a passion for 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.680 the entertainment business. UM. I also UM had really wanted 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.480 to I. I had taken time after college, I moved 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:20.440 abroad to Spain to develop some of my international business skills, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.600 my Spanish language skills. At that point, as a young 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:27.000 man living in Spain, I decided grad school may make sense. 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.520 I was thinking of taking the GMAT or the l's at. 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:32.840 It had been a while since I was doing the 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:34.960 cutting edge math that you need for the GMAT. So 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.400 I took the l's at. And I went to law school, 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.760 and I worked for SCADD and I had a phenomenal, 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.600 phenomenal training ground and learned a lot. But my passion 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.120 had always been the entertainment business. And I reached a 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.320 point in my career there after about five years or so, 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.120 that I thought, I don't have kids yet, not married, 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.760 I could make to shift with less risk, and I 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.040 really started developing this passion, this idea that if you 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.720 if you don't follow with your passion in life, you're 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.600 not going to be happy later in life. So I 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.360 did that and no regrets for that. So, so, how 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.000 do you go from SCAN to MTV? That is not 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.440 a natural career path or is it? Was there a 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:17.040 transactional relationship with Viacom or anything and suddenly someone said, hey, 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.800 you'd be perfect for this. It's a great question. There 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.080 isn't that and it may not seem natural. But what 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:27.360 I had been doing back in late eighties early nineties, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.520 I really focused on international M and A and corporate, 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:32.159 So I spent a couple of years of my time 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.159 in Scatton's London office. So he's learning a lot about 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.599 cross border transactions. And it just so happened at that time, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.640 pretty much in the cable and satellite business, these big 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.680 brands from the US were beginning their international expansion and 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.240 they had a lot of great ideas, a lot of 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.400 creative passion, but they didn't really have a lot of 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.920 people who knew how to structure one's presence in an 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.600 international market. How would the media laws and regulations affect 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.960 a business? How do you structure a joint venture with 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.800 a foreign partner? So I had those skills, so I 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.520 came on board originally to spearhead the legal and business 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:12.359 affairs aspects of MTV and Nickelodeon's launch into the international markets. 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.360 That's quite interest. So really between Spain and London, that 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:22.479 was your graduate school for taking television brands content brands overseas. 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.680 It was the beginning and I had some really amazing insights. 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:28.640 I worked on one project in particular, which was the 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:33.720 restructuring of news Corps debt back in the early nineties. 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.080 That was so that was for scatting in the London office. 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.800 News Corps is at that point not really a behemoth 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.599 in the US, but huge in in the UK and 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:50.479 also amazingly taken to task for funding Sky. Sky was 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.839 their baby, that was bringing the whole ship down. Um 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.200 now we all know what happened. They restructured and Sky 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.240 is a behemoth and an incredible business. Uh. But it 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.799 was fascinating being there for the early years of Sky 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:04.840 and seeing what that business came to and it was 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.400 very um eye opening for me. Next along the career path, 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:14.279 you ended up taking MGM Networks worldwide. Tell us what 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.880 that experience was like, how did that start, What obstacles 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:22.000 did you run into? What were the surprises along the way? Sure? So, 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.840 after I spent a year doing legal with MTV, and 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.200 then I shifted to Nickelodeon to the business side, and 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:33.520 I was primarily responsible for spring the growth and the 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.720 launch of international channels all over the world. Again, this 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.839 was a company that I have very few, if any 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.960 channels outside of the US, and with me leading a 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.680 team and a lot of other good people, we launched 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.360 this network plus people. Was it was it all at once? 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:54.040 You rolled out to a hundred paces Towards six years 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.279 working at and um SO, I learned a lot about 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.600 the international cable and settled business was at its birth 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.400 more or less than um SO. I went to MGM 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.400 after that because I think the challenge I wanted after 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.280 bringing this great kids network all over the world um 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.400 I was really passionate about this business of launching new brands, 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.160 linear what we call linear now PayTV networks. So I 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.679 had this opportunity with MGM, and what I loved about 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:27.000 it is MGM really did not have anywhere in just 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.480 a couple of places branded TV channels. It's a great brand. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.120 It's the biggest modern film library in Hollywood, at least 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:40.160 at the time, and uh that was a gaping opportunity 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.240 UH that hadn't been uh covered by MGM. So so 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.240 before we get too deep into MGM, how do overseas 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:53.080 markets for television and video differ from from US markets? 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.920 What's the demand like, what is the taste like? And 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.360 how does the regulatory and corporate structure compared to what 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.720 we have here? Great questions. As you can imagine, every 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.640 country may be a little different the international markets. Uh, 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.760 we're probably a generation behind the US in terms of 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.760 just rolling out the physical plan. Give you an example, 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.600 Uh in the nineties when I started bringing channels to India, 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.720 of all places, cable and satellite was just born. There 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.320 were no homes. Now they're more cable and satellite homes 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.280 in India by far than the US. So all this 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.240 stuff developed very quickly. Um, every market's a little different, 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:34.120 but many many markets. Now you'll find a majority of 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:39.720 households have pay TV. Not all markets, but many regulatory wise, UM, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.079 as you can imagine over the years when this business 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.880 just emerged. It was a wild West. There are few regulations. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.440 Now you look at a lot of markets, it's tougher 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.280 and tougher by the day. In terms of programming, Yeah, 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.959 I'm Barry rid Hults. You're listening to Masters in Business 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.520 on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest this week is Bruce Tuckman. 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.800 He was the head of MGM Worldwide Networks as well 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:07.640 as MC Global, taking US television networks to over a 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.679 hundred and forty countries around the world. Let's let's before 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.560 we get into a MC let's talk a little more 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:19.240 about MGM and the massive library of classic and films 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.920 that they had. What are the tastes like overseas? How 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:27.720 did you find the MGM brands played in Asia and Europe? 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.200 How did that work? Right? I think overseas, again, depending 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.280 on the market, you're gonna have a combination of two 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:39.240 things that work and pay television. Local content obviously is big, 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.520 and I'd say the more removed people are from the 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.960 English language media markets, the local seen as much bigger, 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.760 so Japan, Korea, India, that's by far the dominant form 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:55.079 of content will be content produced indigenously in local language. 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.120 But every market in the world. They there is room 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.560 for Hollywood content. It is very popular and larger or 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.080 smaller degrees, but it's always very popular. Now, what I 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.360 saw with MGM was the opportunity to take a brand 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:13.680 that arguably has some of the most long term goodwill 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.760 of any brand. I mean, it is synonymous with film. 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:22.040 How big is that library? Library at the time was forms. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.560 So the combination of some great films and the brand, 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.920 well that that's what all pay TV was at that 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.280 point in time. If you have a good brand, you 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.640 have good content. That's what subscribers are gonna want and 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.640 what cable operators are gonna want because they don't want 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.600 to get behind unknown brands, unknown content. It's an easy sell. 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.480 MGM meant too many people in the world. MGM means 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.440 great movies, and the movies themselves were great movies. So 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.800 it was a fantastic run and we went from about 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:55.080 zero channels and in ten years we had tens and 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.280 tens of millions of subscribers in about a hundred and 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.720 forty countries all around. So now let's talk a little 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.679 bit about AMC, which over the past couple of years 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:09.480 has become a monster monster brand not just for what 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.559 I I think of them as American movie classics, we're 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:17.160 kind of where what they began. But for some really 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:23.760 definitive original content. So how was the AMC brand different 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.960 than MGM and how did it play overseas well? A 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.440 couple of interesting things. So I think for the core demo, 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.400 perhaps that that is right now watching Walking Dead and 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.439 have watched Breaking Bad. Um, don't forget mad Men and 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.560 another one. I'd say, by the way, these are those 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:48.480 are three pretty much definitive original programs over the past 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.120 ten five you know, Throwing the Sopranos it's hard, and 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:56.600 then Seinfeld the decade before that. That pretty much dominates 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.120 what what people have been at least talking about. I agree, 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.040 you know, you don't sell games thrown short either, But um, 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.840 it was brand defining obviously for AMC network. And I think, 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.280 and I think a lot of the people watching it 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.280 now that demo may not even remember American Movie Classics. 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.439 They think of AMC in those terms. It's Walking Dead 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.640 and Breaking and not bringing up Baby. That's not that's 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.400 not the NADA process, that's correct. So that raises the 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:29.240 question how important is the development of original content to 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.680 a branded channel like AMC huge. Um. There have been 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.800 um evolutions in this PayTV market. It used to be 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.120 dominated by libraries, second run library content. If you think 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.360 about even HBO and Showtime. In the earlier years, it 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.800 was the second run perhaps it was movies. It was movies, 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.760 and it was stand up comedy specials, and that was 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.439 pretty much it. Correct. So the market got more and 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.960 more competitive, and original programming became necessary to distinguish a 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.720 channel from others and more competitive market, and especially now 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:07.120 with the slowing and in fact declining subscriber universe. UM, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.560 you've got to do everything you can to reach a 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:13.040 big audience. And you just can't cut corners by showing 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.880 cheap reruns anymore. That will not work. UM. So that 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.520 that's the state we are in now with having to 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.319 invest in all this original programming. So a question that 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.240 I had that I think is I imagine other people 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:32.559 would also is how similar is the taste of consumers 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.720 of film and television watchers overseas to us in the 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.320 United States? Does Don Draper play overseas? Is that the 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.040 sort of thing? Does Walter White have a resonance in Japan? 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.840 You know, these are really definitive US characters on all 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.280 ends of the spectrum. How are how are these shows 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:59.439 and how are these characters um accepted in other markets? Correct? 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.080 For I'd say the last six or seven or eight years, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.200 the what we're calling peak TV or the drama renaissance. 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.800 This is global phenomena. Uh, not just here in the 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.959 United States. Not Golden Age of television is in the US, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:16.000 and from the age of television may have there. I 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.440 think there's more nuanced to that. But the top quality 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:22.480 dramas produced in the English language are are really romping 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.760 around the world. Um. So you can go tell us 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:27.720 what's big overseas right now? Well, I mean Game of 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:33.520 Thrones is huge, Walking Dead, um, Stranger Things from Netflix 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.160 has done incredibly well in terms of seeing what the 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:42.360 global demand for that is. Um. Mr Robots doing terrifically. Yes. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.440 So so these shows are really hot all over the world. 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.760 Now it depends on the market. Do they dominate every 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.160 market like they do in the US? No, not necessarily, 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:55.480 because as I mentioned before, a place like India has 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:00.920 an incredible local production industry. They're they're broadcast sting um 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:05.360 original programming developed in India in a dozen different languages. However, 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.200 these shows breakthrough, these dramas. Breakthrough in every single market 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:11.920 all around the world may not happen five years from now, 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.560 but we have been in this phase of the business 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.400 for the last i'd say eight or so years where 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.360 this is very was working. Let me throw a curve 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:21.800 bowl at you. I remember moving out of the city 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.080 to the suburbs a dozen plus years ago and not 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.680 being happy that I couldn't get BBC America, which I 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.240 was used to when I lived in Manhattan for twenty years, 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.360 so I had to go to a satellite instead of 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.240 the local cable. Now it's everywhere, but I recall shows 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:43.479 like Doctor Who and top Gear really being global phenomenon 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:48.800 a dozen years ago. Was the BBC the first network 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:53.880 to really take themselves global? Did they set the uh 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.560 the original model for this? I I think the pioneers 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.640 were both the major Wood studios that have always had 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.520 incredible sales arms for their TV and movie production all 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.840 around the world, and BBC I would also put up 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:13.160 in that category, especially within the Commonwealth Nations. BBC was 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.920 always an important brand and always had an extensive network 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.200 of channels and programming, and they put a lot of 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.080 money um resources into getting that stuff all around the World. 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.720 I'm Barry Ridhults. You're listening to Masters in Business on 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.800 Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is Bruce Tuckman. He 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.040 is a former m and a lawyer from Scandon Arps 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.280 who entered television and ended up taking over a number 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.880 of channels UH such as Sundance, am C, MGM and 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:46.080 bringing them global to over a hundred and forty countries. 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.680 You're on the board of advisors of Parent Analytics. Sure, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.680 I'm a board member. Board member. Let's talk about what 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:59.800 it means to try and measure audience UM. In the 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:03.000 U S. We have Nielsen Ratings, which has been a 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.520 lot of criticism and complaints that it doesn't capture UM, 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.520 time shifting, it doesn't capture a lot of things. What's 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:14.760 it like trying to measure viewership overseas well? I think 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.920 it's funny even today after the election, we're seeing that 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.280 taking a sample like Nielsen does. Nielsen has thirty thousand 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.359 or so paneled homes only recently stopped using paper to 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.159 document what people are watching, and they're extrapolating from that 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.400 what people are watching. That is part of the basic 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:40.359 underlying concern about extrapolation based panel based surveying of TV audiences. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.840 We we get so much information on the web about 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.960 website performance. We could track how long people are on 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.840 a site, where they're coming from, how how quickly they 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.080 bounce off, where they click on the page, how how 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.320 many different things they look at. It would make sense 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.359 that there should be some technology that does that on 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.119 the video so well, sure, and that's what Parrot Analytics 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.399 is doing. So if you think about the internet is 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:09.440 a huge billion three billion, three point seven billion people 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.840 are using the Internet every day. If you think about 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.359 what you may be doing. If you like a show 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.840 we mentioned Game of Thrones before, you may press a 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.399 like on Facebook. You may read about um John snow 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:25.119 on Wikipedia. You may follow something I'm reddit post something. 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.840 You may even this happens a lot of markets. Uh 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.720 illegally download four hours. So a company like Parrot Parrot 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.520 is listening and scraping to all of these messages in 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.840 the Internet, listening to everything, but more importantly weighing it all. 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:45.160 If you download four hours and pirated of Game of Thrones, 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.800 you're pretty passionate about a show. If you're liking it 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.000 on Facebook, you like the show, but maybe not as 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.080 much now if you weigh all that together, you could 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:58.959 come up with a real, um, actual, genuine amount of 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.880 data that people are expressing demand for TV shows, which 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.960 I think is far more compelling than just having surveys 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.240 where you're extrapulating, because but don't we run into potentially 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.720 the same problem that hey, we're not actually measuring votes, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.560 but we're we're surveying. We're looking at what people say 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.639 and do about candidates, were about shows, and trying to 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.400 draw a conclusion about it from that model the differences, 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:28.160 there's no conclusion being drawn. It's empirical. It is Okay, 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.639 we've measured now a billion data points. These are powerful computers, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.240 and this is the facts. No conclusions are extrapolation to 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.560 be drawn. This is what people are saying right now. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.280 So this is going to revolutionize the business. It's going 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:47.120 to happen more and more. Obviously, I think a lot 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.360 of these data measurement companies now are good compliments to Nielsen. 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:56.000 There are sixty billion dollars of transactions going down based 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.240 on Nielsen. But at some point the data has to 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.280 come in and form a little bit. So so let's 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.400 talk a little bit about that big data. How can 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:09.440 we use big data and analytics to figure out how 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:14.119 valuable specific content is. You can because you can see 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.480 what people are saying out there. And it's not only 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.440 see what people are saying empirically, you actually can see 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.840 who they are, what their demographics are. You can find 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.720 out what products they like. You can say, Wow, this 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.159 Game of Thrones person, I can see this person. I 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.920 can see this person also likes Lincoln Motors and also 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.439 likes Dan and yogurt Um. So we're only at the 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.439 beginning of all of that, and I think over the 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.600 long run, a paper based survey is still based on 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:47.240 essentially UM Johannes Guttenberg's ideas, it's gonna be very different. 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:53.000 Is is the technology UM consistent between the US and overseas? 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.720 Can you generate the same sort of analytics and is 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.680 it as accurate there as here or vice versa? Yeah, 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.720 because I mean it's a global phenomena, the web. There's 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.800 no cultural differences from the US to Europe to Asia. No. 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.280 I mean, when you're just measuring what people are watching 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.640 by using the Internet and using these sources where people 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.439 are expressing their demand for TV, you're just finding what 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:18.560 people are really saying. UM. So it's It's young, this industry, 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.360 but it's powerful. Each year it evolves even stronger and stronger. 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.959 I'm Barry rid Halts. You're listening to Masters in Business 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:29.840 on Bloomberg Radio. My guest today is Bruce Tuckman. He 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:34.840 has taken a number of US television channels worldwide, over 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.639 a hundred and forty countries. Let's talk a little bit 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:42.040 about streaming, UH and video on demand and what that means. 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.200 You know, when I was a kid, we had the 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:49.720 three networks and a handful of syndication, and by the 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.880 time I got to high school, this thing called HBO 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.959 came along, and UH we had movies and curse words 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:02.399 and stand up it was. It was revelatory. Today there's 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.679 content from everywhere. You have not only the networks but 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.600 all the pay channels. There seems to be everybody producing 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:16.480 their own content. I'm a huge fan of of f X, UM, 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.840 am C, I f C. There's a whole run of 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:25.080 shows that are spectacular. That's before we get to Netflix, 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:31.200 Amazon Prime. I'm sure I'm forgetting others. There's just an 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:38.159 embarrassment of riches when it comes to original programming. Is 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.240 this really a golden age of television? And how long 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:45.040 can this last? For? Yeah, it's They call it peak TV, 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.280 but I call peaked TV in a way that it's peaked. Um, 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.600 it's already peaked. Well, I think it's just a matter 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.680 of time, and I'll explain why. Um, there's about five 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:58.600 original narrative drama is going to be produced in the 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:02.159 US this year. Five You can never absorb all that. 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.880 That's probably around three times as much as when Madmen 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.400 came out seven or eight years ago. Really, yeah, so 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:12.760 what there is? Like any business, I suppose there's a 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:17.720 copycat phenomena because the success of a MC ffects even 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:20.880 what HBO and then Showtime and Stars Encore is doing. 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:26.560 People have realized quality dramas not only rate, they define brands, 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:31.840 they start the conversation in the morning. They add incredible value. 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:36.399 So everyone's rushing to it. Is that sustainable, as the question? 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:40.280 I don't think it's sustainable because people aren't watching all 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.840 of the stuff anyway. You're finding overall, with a few 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:48.600 exceptions like perhaps Walking Dead or UM Game of Thrones, 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:53.919 you're seeing ratings decline. You're seeing the overall cable universe decrease. 0:23:54.320 --> 0:24:00.000 By now, what's becoming scary significant single digit percentages each year, UM. 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.840 And you're seeing advertising go down. So the economic basis, 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:08.480 especially for basic cable TV, the overall revenue pool is declining. 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:12.159 To keep investing in this high quality drama is not 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.600 going to be sustainable, so to shrink what what is 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:24.040 this the chord cutting phenomena of basically the millennials UM, 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.960 who who aren't enthralled with the whole run of channels 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:30.040 they get with a cable package. They just want internet 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:32.639 service and they'll buy what they want on demand and 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:36.000 that work. What does this mean to the future of 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:40.040 the content industry? And is this why you think we're 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.639 we're post peak TV? Yes? I think so. I think 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:47.919 the basic cable bundle is under the most pressure because 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:51.679 there's cord cutting, chord shaving. You've seen chord shaving, meaning 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.159 you don't fully cut it, but you just go to 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:56.480 the base one less stuff. Why do I want all 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.240 the three premium movie services when maybe I just want 0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:02.199 HBO and I'll get Netflix or you know that that 0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:06.879 could be one thing or new household formation. Younger people 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:11.160