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Speaker 1: Brought to you by Bank of America Merrill Lynch, committed

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Speaker 1: to bringing higher finance to lower carbon named the most

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Speaker 1: innovative investment bank for climate change and sustainability by the banker.

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Speaker 1: That's the power of Global Connections. Bank of America North

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Speaker 1: America member f d i C. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. This week on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, I have Bruce Tuckman. He helped bring a

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Speaker 1: number of US channels overseas, number of television channels like

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Speaker 1: Sundance and a m C and MTV and Nickelodeon and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of others. Uh. Global Uh. And we really

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Speaker 1: have a fascinating conversation, especially when we get loose in

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Speaker 1: the podcast portion talking about the future of video and

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Speaker 1: what it's gonna look like. Uh. This is an industry

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Speaker 1: very much influx with both a rich um collection of

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Speaker 1: original content. He describes us at at peak television and

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Speaker 1: there's no to go but down from here because it

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Speaker 1: is so overwhelmingly excellent. But the nature of television is changing,

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Speaker 1: the nature of content distribution is not going to be

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Speaker 1: what it used to be, where it's just a fat

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Speaker 1: cable or or satellite to your house and you buy

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Speaker 1: a package in that that's it. Video on demand, streaming, downloading.

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Speaker 1: These are having major changes on how the industry is progressing,

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Speaker 1: and it's really in a period of dynamic flux. So

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Speaker 1: if you at all are interested in content creation, or

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Speaker 1: in how the nuts and bolts of of content gets

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Speaker 1: distributed around the world, or really what the state of

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Speaker 1: media is gonna look like in five, ten, twenty years,

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Speaker 1: I think you'll really enjoy this conversation. So, with no

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Speaker 1: further ado, my conversation with Bruce Tuckman. This is Masters

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Speaker 1: in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. My special

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Speaker 1: guest today is Bruce Tufman. He began his career as

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Speaker 1: an m and a attorney at Scandon Arps before entering

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Speaker 1: the world of television, where he helped bring such brands

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Speaker 1: as MTV, Nickelodeon, Sundance Channel, and a MC to a

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Speaker 1: global audience, taking American content to more than a hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty countries around the world. Bruce Tuffman, Welcome to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Very good to be here. I appreciate your having me so.

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Speaker 1: I found your background really fascinating. Um, you're an expert

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Speaker 1: on video content on modern television streaming and video one demand.

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Speaker 1: So we'll get into Amazon, Netflix and a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of of related companies in a few minutes. But you

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Speaker 1: began your career as a corporate m and a attorney.

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Speaker 1: How do you go from that to essentially running a

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Speaker 1: handful of television networks? Um? It seemed less secuitous. I

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Speaker 1: supposed to me. UM. I always had a passion for

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Speaker 1: the entertainment business. UM. I also UM had really wanted

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Speaker 1: to I. I had taken time after college, I moved

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Speaker 1: abroad to Spain to develop some of my international business skills,

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Speaker 1: my Spanish language skills. At that point, as a young

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Speaker 1: man living in Spain, I decided grad school may make sense.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking of taking the GMAT or the l's at.

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Speaker 1: It had been a while since I was doing the

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Speaker 1: cutting edge math that you need for the GMAT. So

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Speaker 1: I took the l's at. And I went to law school,

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Speaker 1: and I worked for SCADD and I had a phenomenal,

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Speaker 1: phenomenal training ground and learned a lot. But my passion

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Speaker 1: had always been the entertainment business. And I reached a

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Speaker 1: point in my career there after about five years or so,

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Speaker 1: that I thought, I don't have kids yet, not married,

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Speaker 1: I could make to shift with less risk, and I

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Speaker 1: really started developing this passion, this idea that if you

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Speaker 1: if you don't follow with your passion in life, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to be happy later in life. So I

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Speaker 1: did that and no regrets for that. So, so, how

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Speaker 1: do you go from SCAN to MTV? That is not

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Speaker 1: a natural career path or is it? Was there a

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Speaker 1: transactional relationship with Viacom or anything and suddenly someone said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you'd be perfect for this. It's a great question. There

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Speaker 1: isn't that and it may not seem natural. But what

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Speaker 1: I had been doing back in late eighties early nineties,

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Speaker 1: I really focused on international M and A and corporate,

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Speaker 1: So I spent a couple of years of my time

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Speaker 1: in Scatton's London office. So he's learning a lot about

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Speaker 1: cross border transactions. And it just so happened at that time,

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Speaker 1: pretty much in the cable and satellite business, these big

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Speaker 1: brands from the US were beginning their international expansion and

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Speaker 1: they had a lot of great ideas, a lot of

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Speaker 1: creative passion, but they didn't really have a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who knew how to structure one's presence in an

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Speaker 1: international market. How would the media laws and regulations affect

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Speaker 1: a business? How do you structure a joint venture with

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Speaker 1: a foreign partner? So I had those skills, so I

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Speaker 1: came on board originally to spearhead the legal and business

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Speaker 1: affairs aspects of MTV and Nickelodeon's launch into the international markets.

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Speaker 1: That's quite interest. So really between Spain and London, that

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Speaker 1: was your graduate school for taking television brands content brands overseas.

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Speaker 1: It was the beginning and I had some really amazing insights.

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Speaker 1: I worked on one project in particular, which was the

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Speaker 1: restructuring of news Corps debt back in the early nineties.

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Speaker 1: That was so that was for scatting in the London office.

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Speaker 1: News Corps is at that point not really a behemoth

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Speaker 1: in the US, but huge in in the UK and

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Speaker 1: also amazingly taken to task for funding Sky. Sky was

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Speaker 1: their baby, that was bringing the whole ship down. Um

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Speaker 1: now we all know what happened. They restructured and Sky

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Speaker 1: is a behemoth and an incredible business. Uh. But it

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Speaker 1: was fascinating being there for the early years of Sky

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Speaker 1: and seeing what that business came to and it was

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Speaker 1: very um eye opening for me. Next along the career path,

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Speaker 1: you ended up taking MGM Networks worldwide. Tell us what

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Speaker 1: that experience was like, how did that start, What obstacles

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Speaker 1: did you run into? What were the surprises along the way? Sure? So,

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Speaker 1: after I spent a year doing legal with MTV, and

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Speaker 1: then I shifted to Nickelodeon to the business side, and

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Speaker 1: I was primarily responsible for spring the growth and the

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Speaker 1: launch of international channels all over the world. Again, this

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Speaker 1: was a company that I have very few, if any

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Speaker 1: channels outside of the US, and with me leading a

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Speaker 1: team and a lot of other good people, we launched

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Speaker 1: this network plus people. Was it was it all at once?

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Speaker 1: You rolled out to a hundred paces Towards six years

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Speaker 1: working at and um SO, I learned a lot about

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Speaker 1: the international cable and settled business was at its birth

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Speaker 1: more or less than um SO. I went to MGM

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Speaker 1: after that because I think the challenge I wanted after

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Speaker 1: bringing this great kids network all over the world um

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Speaker 1: I was really passionate about this business of launching new brands,

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Speaker 1: linear what we call linear now PayTV networks. So I

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Speaker 1: had this opportunity with MGM, and what I loved about

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Speaker 1: it is MGM really did not have anywhere in just

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Speaker 1: a couple of places branded TV channels. It's a great brand.

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Speaker 1: It's the biggest modern film library in Hollywood, at least

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Speaker 1: at the time, and uh that was a gaping opportunity

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Speaker 1: UH that hadn't been uh covered by MGM. So so

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Speaker 1: before we get too deep into MGM, how do overseas

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Speaker 1: markets for television and video differ from from US markets?

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Speaker 1: What's the demand like, what is the taste like? And

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Speaker 1: how does the regulatory and corporate structure compared to what

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Speaker 1: we have here? Great questions. As you can imagine, every

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Speaker 1: country may be a little different the international markets. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're probably a generation behind the US in terms of

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Speaker 1: just rolling out the physical plan. Give you an example,

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Speaker 1: Uh in the nineties when I started bringing channels to India,

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Speaker 1: of all places, cable and satellite was just born. There

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Speaker 1: were no homes. Now they're more cable and satellite homes

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Speaker 1: in India by far than the US. So all this

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Speaker 1: stuff developed very quickly. Um, every market's a little different,

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Speaker 1: but many many markets. Now you'll find a majority of

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Speaker 1: households have pay TV. Not all markets, but many regulatory wise, UM,

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine over the years when this business

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Speaker 1: just emerged. It was a wild West. There are few regulations.

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Speaker 1: Now you look at a lot of markets, it's tougher

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Speaker 1: and tougher by the day. In terms of programming, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm Barry rid Hults. You're listening to Masters in Business

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest this week is Bruce Tuckman.

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Speaker 1: He was the head of MGM Worldwide Networks as well

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Speaker 1: as MC Global, taking US television networks to over a

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty countries around the world. Let's let's before

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Speaker 1: we get into a MC let's talk a little more

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Speaker 1: about MGM and the massive library of classic and films

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Speaker 1: that they had. What are the tastes like overseas? How

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Speaker 1: did you find the MGM brands played in Asia and Europe?

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Speaker 1: How did that work? Right? I think overseas, again, depending

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Speaker 1: on the market, you're gonna have a combination of two

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Speaker 1: things that work and pay television. Local content obviously is big,

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Speaker 1: and I'd say the more removed people are from the

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Speaker 1: English language media markets, the local seen as much bigger,

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Speaker 1: so Japan, Korea, India, that's by far the dominant form

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Speaker 1: of content will be content produced indigenously in local language.

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Speaker 1: But every market in the world. They there is room

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Speaker 1: for Hollywood content. It is very popular and larger or

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Speaker 1: smaller degrees, but it's always very popular. Now, what I

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Speaker 1: saw with MGM was the opportunity to take a brand

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Speaker 1: that arguably has some of the most long term goodwill

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Speaker 1: of any brand. I mean, it is synonymous with film.

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Speaker 1: How big is that library? Library at the time was forms.

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Speaker 1: So the combination of some great films and the brand,

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Speaker 1: well that that's what all pay TV was at that

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Speaker 1: point in time. If you have a good brand, you

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Speaker 1: have good content. That's what subscribers are gonna want and

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Speaker 1: what cable operators are gonna want because they don't want

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Speaker 1: to get behind unknown brands, unknown content. It's an easy sell.

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Speaker 1: MGM meant too many people in the world. MGM means

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Speaker 1: great movies, and the movies themselves were great movies. So

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Speaker 1: it was a fantastic run and we went from about

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Speaker 1: zero channels and in ten years we had tens and

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Speaker 1: tens of millions of subscribers in about a hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty countries all around. So now let's talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about AMC, which over the past couple of years

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Speaker 1: has become a monster monster brand not just for what

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Speaker 1: I I think of them as American movie classics, we're

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Speaker 1: kind of where what they began. But for some really

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Speaker 1: definitive original content. So how was the AMC brand different

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Speaker 1: than MGM and how did it play overseas well? A

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Speaker 1: couple of interesting things. So I think for the core demo,

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Speaker 1: perhaps that that is right now watching Walking Dead and

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Speaker 1: have watched Breaking Bad. Um, don't forget mad Men and

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Speaker 1: another one. I'd say, by the way, these are those

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Speaker 1: are three pretty much definitive original programs over the past

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Speaker 1: ten five you know, Throwing the Sopranos it's hard, and

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Speaker 1: then Seinfeld the decade before that. That pretty much dominates

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Speaker 1: what what people have been at least talking about. I agree,

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't sell games thrown short either, But um,

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Speaker 1: it was brand defining obviously for AMC network. And I think,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of the people watching it

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Speaker 1: now that demo may not even remember American Movie Classics.

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Speaker 1: They think of AMC in those terms. It's Walking Dead

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Speaker 1: and Breaking and not bringing up Baby. That's not that's

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Speaker 1: not the NADA process, that's correct. So that raises the

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Speaker 1: question how important is the development of original content to

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Speaker 1: a branded channel like AMC huge. Um. There have been

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Speaker 1: um evolutions in this PayTV market. It used to be

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Speaker 1: dominated by libraries, second run library content. If you think

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Speaker 1: about even HBO and Showtime. In the earlier years, it

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Speaker 1: was the second run perhaps it was movies. It was movies,

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Speaker 1: and it was stand up comedy specials, and that was

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Speaker 1: pretty much it. Correct. So the market got more and

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Speaker 1: more competitive, and original programming became necessary to distinguish a

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Speaker 1: channel from others and more competitive market, and especially now

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Speaker 1: with the slowing and in fact declining subscriber universe. UM,

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Speaker 1: you've got to do everything you can to reach a

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Speaker 1: big audience. And you just can't cut corners by showing

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Speaker 1: cheap reruns anymore. That will not work. UM. So that

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Speaker 1: that's the state we are in now with having to

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Speaker 1: invest in all this original programming. So a question that

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Speaker 1: I had that I think is I imagine other people

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Speaker 1: would also is how similar is the taste of consumers

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Speaker 1: of film and television watchers overseas to us in the

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Speaker 1: United States? Does Don Draper play overseas? Is that the

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Speaker 1: sort of thing? Does Walter White have a resonance in Japan?

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Speaker 1: You know, these are really definitive US characters on all

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Speaker 1: ends of the spectrum. How are how are these shows

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Speaker 1: and how are these characters um accepted in other markets? Correct?

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Speaker 1: For I'd say the last six or seven or eight years,

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Speaker 1: the what we're calling peak TV or the drama renaissance.

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Speaker 1: This is global phenomena. Uh, not just here in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Not Golden Age of television is in the US,

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Speaker 1: and from the age of television may have there. I

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Speaker 1: think there's more nuanced to that. But the top quality

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Speaker 1: dramas produced in the English language are are really romping

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Speaker 1: around the world. Um. So you can go tell us

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Speaker 1: what's big overseas right now? Well, I mean Game of

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Speaker 1: Thrones is huge, Walking Dead, um, Stranger Things from Netflix

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Speaker 1: has done incredibly well in terms of seeing what the

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Speaker 1: global demand for that is. Um. Mr Robots doing terrifically. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So so these shows are really hot all over the world.

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Speaker 1: Now it depends on the market. Do they dominate every

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Speaker 1: market like they do in the US? No, not necessarily,

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Speaker 1: because as I mentioned before, a place like India has

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Speaker 1: an incredible local production industry. They're they're broadcast sting um

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Speaker 1: original programming developed in India in a dozen different languages. However,

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Speaker 1: these shows breakthrough, these dramas. Breakthrough in every single market

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Speaker 1: all around the world may not happen five years from now,

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Speaker 1: but we have been in this phase of the business

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Speaker 1: for the last i'd say eight or so years where

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Speaker 1: this is very was working. Let me throw a curve

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Speaker 1: bowl at you. I remember moving out of the city

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Speaker 1: to the suburbs a dozen plus years ago and not

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Speaker 1: being happy that I couldn't get BBC America, which I

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Speaker 1: was used to when I lived in Manhattan for twenty years,

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Speaker 1: so I had to go to a satellite instead of

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Speaker 1: the local cable. Now it's everywhere, but I recall shows

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Speaker 1: like Doctor Who and top Gear really being global phenomenon

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Speaker 1: a dozen years ago. Was the BBC the first network

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Speaker 1: to really take themselves global? Did they set the uh

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Speaker 1: the original model for this? I I think the pioneers

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Speaker 1: were both the major Wood studios that have always had

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Speaker 1: incredible sales arms for their TV and movie production all

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Speaker 1: around the world, and BBC I would also put up

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Speaker 1: in that category, especially within the Commonwealth Nations. BBC was

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Speaker 1: always an important brand and always had an extensive network

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Speaker 1: of channels and programming, and they put a lot of

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Speaker 1: money um resources into getting that stuff all around the World.

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Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridhults. You're listening to Masters in Business on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is Bruce Tuckman. He

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Speaker 1: is a former m and a lawyer from Scandon Arps

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Speaker 1: who entered television and ended up taking over a number

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Speaker 1: of channels UH such as Sundance, am C, MGM and

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Speaker 1: bringing them global to over a hundred and forty countries.

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Speaker 1: You're on the board of advisors of Parent Analytics. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I'm a board member. Board member. Let's talk about what

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Speaker 1: it means to try and measure audience UM. In the

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Speaker 1: U S. We have Nielsen Ratings, which has been a

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Speaker 1: lot of criticism and complaints that it doesn't capture UM,

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Speaker 1: time shifting, it doesn't capture a lot of things. What's

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Speaker 1: it like trying to measure viewership overseas well? I think

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Speaker 1: it's funny even today after the election, we're seeing that

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Speaker 1: taking a sample like Nielsen does. Nielsen has thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: or so paneled homes only recently stopped using paper to

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Speaker 1: document what people are watching, and they're extrapolating from that

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Speaker 1: what people are watching. That is part of the basic

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Speaker 1: underlying concern about extrapolation based panel based surveying of TV audiences.

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Speaker 1: We we get so much information on the web about

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Speaker 1: website performance. We could track how long people are on

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Speaker 1: a site, where they're coming from, how how quickly they

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Speaker 1: bounce off, where they click on the page, how how

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Speaker 1: many different things they look at. It would make sense

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Speaker 1: that there should be some technology that does that on

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Speaker 1: the video so well, sure, and that's what Parrot Analytics

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Speaker 1: is doing. So if you think about the internet is

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Speaker 1: a huge billion three billion, three point seven billion people

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Speaker 1: are using the Internet every day. If you think about

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Speaker 1: what you may be doing. If you like a show

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Speaker 1: we mentioned Game of Thrones before, you may press a

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Speaker 1: like on Facebook. You may read about um John snow

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Speaker 1: on Wikipedia. You may follow something I'm reddit post something.

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Speaker 1: You may even this happens a lot of markets. Uh

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Speaker 1: illegally download four hours. So a company like Parrot Parrot

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Speaker 1: is listening and scraping to all of these messages in

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Speaker 1: the Internet, listening to everything, but more importantly weighing it all.

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Speaker 1: If you download four hours and pirated of Game of Thrones,

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Speaker 1: you're pretty passionate about a show. If you're liking it

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, you like the show, but maybe not as

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Speaker 1: much now if you weigh all that together, you could

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Speaker 1: come up with a real, um, actual, genuine amount of

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Speaker 1: data that people are expressing demand for TV shows, which

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Speaker 1: I think is far more compelling than just having surveys

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Speaker 1: where you're extrapulating, because but don't we run into potentially

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Speaker 1: the same problem that hey, we're not actually measuring votes,

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Speaker 1: but we're we're surveying. We're looking at what people say

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Speaker 1: and do about candidates, were about shows, and trying to

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Speaker 1: draw a conclusion about it from that model the differences,

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Speaker 1: there's no conclusion being drawn. It's empirical. It is Okay,

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Speaker 1: we've measured now a billion data points. These are powerful computers,

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Speaker 1: and this is the facts. No conclusions are extrapolation to

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Speaker 1: be drawn. This is what people are saying right now.

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Speaker 1: So this is going to revolutionize the business. It's going

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Speaker 1: to happen more and more. Obviously, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of these data measurement companies now are good compliments to Nielsen.

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Speaker 1: There are sixty billion dollars of transactions going down based

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Speaker 1: on Nielsen. But at some point the data has to

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Speaker 1: come in and form a little bit. So so let's

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that big data. How can

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Speaker 1: we use big data and analytics to figure out how

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Speaker 1: valuable specific content is. You can because you can see

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Speaker 1: what people are saying out there. And it's not only

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Speaker 1: see what people are saying empirically, you actually can see

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Speaker 1: who they are, what their demographics are. You can find

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Speaker 1: out what products they like. You can say, Wow, this

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Speaker 1: Game of Thrones person, I can see this person. I

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Speaker 1: can see this person also likes Lincoln Motors and also

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Speaker 1: likes Dan and yogurt Um. So we're only at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of all of that, and I think over the

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Speaker 1: long run, a paper based survey is still based on

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Speaker 1: essentially UM Johannes Guttenberg's ideas, it's gonna be very different.

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Speaker 1: Is is the technology UM consistent between the US and overseas?

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Speaker 1: Can you generate the same sort of analytics and is

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Speaker 1: it as accurate there as here or vice versa? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I mean it's a global phenomena, the web. There's

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Speaker 1: no cultural differences from the US to Europe to Asia. No.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you're just measuring what people are watching

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Speaker 1: by using the Internet and using these sources where people

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Speaker 1: are expressing their demand for TV, you're just finding what

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Speaker 1: people are really saying. UM. So it's It's young, this industry,

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Speaker 1: but it's powerful. Each year it evolves even stronger and stronger.

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Speaker 1: I'm Barry rid Halts. You're listening to Masters in Business

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. My guest today is Bruce Tuckman. He

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Speaker 1: has taken a number of US television channels worldwide, over

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Speaker 1: a hundred and forty countries. Let's talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about streaming, UH and video on demand and what that means.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I was a kid, we had the

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Speaker 1: three networks and a handful of syndication, and by the

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Speaker 1: time I got to high school, this thing called HBO

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Speaker 1: came along, and UH we had movies and curse words

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Speaker 1: and stand up it was. It was revelatory. Today there's

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Speaker 1: content from everywhere. You have not only the networks but

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Speaker 1: all the pay channels. There seems to be everybody producing

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Speaker 1: their own content. I'm a huge fan of of f X, UM,

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Speaker 1: am C, I f C. There's a whole run of

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Speaker 1: shows that are spectacular. That's before we get to Netflix,

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime. I'm sure I'm forgetting others. There's just an

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Speaker 1: embarrassment of riches when it comes to original programming. Is

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Speaker 1: this really a golden age of television? And how long

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Speaker 1: can this last? For? Yeah, it's They call it peak TV,

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Speaker 1: but I call peaked TV in a way that it's peaked. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's already peaked. Well, I think it's just a matter

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Speaker 1: of time, and I'll explain why. Um, there's about five

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Speaker 1: original narrative drama is going to be produced in the

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Speaker 1: US this year. Five You can never absorb all that.

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Speaker 1: That's probably around three times as much as when Madmen

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Speaker 1: came out seven or eight years ago. Really, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: what there is? Like any business, I suppose there's a

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Speaker 1: copycat phenomena because the success of a MC ffects even

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Speaker 1: what HBO and then Showtime and Stars Encore is doing.

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Speaker 1: People have realized quality dramas not only rate, they define brands,

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Speaker 1: they start the conversation in the morning. They add incredible value.

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Speaker 1: So everyone's rushing to it. Is that sustainable, as the question?

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's sustainable because people aren't watching all

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Speaker 1: of the stuff anyway. You're finding overall, with a few

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Speaker 1: exceptions like perhaps Walking Dead or UM Game of Thrones,

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Speaker 1: you're seeing ratings decline. You're seeing the overall cable universe decrease.

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Speaker 1: By now, what's becoming scary significant single digit percentages each year, UM.

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Speaker 1: And you're seeing advertising go down. So the economic basis,

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Speaker 1: especially for basic cable TV, the overall revenue pool is declining.

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Speaker 1: To keep investing in this high quality drama is not

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Speaker 1: going to be sustainable, so to shrink what what is

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Speaker 1: this the chord cutting phenomena of basically the millennials UM,

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Speaker 1: who who aren't enthralled with the whole run of channels

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Speaker 1: they get with a cable package. They just want internet

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Speaker 1: service and they'll buy what they want on demand and

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Speaker 1: that work. What does this mean to the future of

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Speaker 1: the content industry? And is this why you think we're

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Speaker 1: we're post peak TV? Yes? I think so. I think

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Speaker 1: the basic cable bundle is under the most pressure because

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Speaker 1: there's cord cutting, chord shaving. You've seen chord shaving, meaning

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Speaker 1: you don't fully cut it, but you just go to

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Speaker 1: the base one less stuff. Why do I want all

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Speaker 1: the three premium movie services when maybe I just want

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Speaker 1: HBO and I'll get Netflix or you know that that

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Speaker 1: could be one thing or new household formation. Younger people

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Speaker 1: aren't bothering UM. But the fact just that it's shrinking,

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Speaker 1: even by single percentage digits. This is an industry that

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Speaker 1: has never seen that before. It's gonna it's a very

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Speaker 1: hard learning curve to learn how to adapt to that.

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Speaker 1: And this isn't gonna get better. This is only gonna

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Speaker 1: get worse as the millennials, as the pig moves through

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Speaker 1: the python. So it's gonna get worse. And and for

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Speaker 1: Basic Cable, nothing's looking good in the right direction because

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Speaker 1: there's too many Basic cablers in this original narrative drama space.

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Speaker 1: Their revenue base is shrinking, the competitions intense, and at

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Speaker 1: the same time it the format isn't so great. When

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Speaker 1: you're breaking a show for commercials every fifteen minutes. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you're conforming your storytelling to what maybe a very antiquated

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Speaker 1: format eight minutes, six minutes. Yeah, so you've got to

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Speaker 1: build a little peak and then you go away for

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Speaker 1: four minutes. Now, if you look at what's going on

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Speaker 1: Amazon or Netflix, they don't care about the length of

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Speaker 1: this show, right, I mean it's not they're telling. You're

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Speaker 1: telling a story, and the stories are compelling and they

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Speaker 1: don't break off. So I think both from a creative standpoint,

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Speaker 1: business model standpoint, Basic Cables in big trouble. The Ola

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Speaker 1: Carte networks. The streamers are much better shape, and younger

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Speaker 1: people seem to find them convenient, but so do older

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Speaker 1: people as well. I have to ask a question about

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Speaker 1: the commercials and what you've defined. I mean, other than

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl, I don't remember watching a commercial in

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Speaker 1: the past decade. Every television has a DVR on it.

428
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: They're now four thousand hours big, they're giant. Um. I

429
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: assume everybody else uses DVRs. And all you do is

430
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: if you want to start something, even if it's not

431
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: on DVR, you pause it. You do fifteen minutes worth

432
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: of yours, and now you have no commercials to worry about. Certainly,

433
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: live viewing is shifting more and more each year to

434
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 1: DV yars or getting catch up on demand on your

435
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: cable system, downloading something from my tunes that you've missed. Um,

436
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: that's happening more and more there. It's gonna be it's

437
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: really gonna be hard to to stop that. Um. That

438
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: that is a challenge. That that's profound for the industry,

439
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: and there doesn't seem to be a solution around that.

440
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the DVD for for you young guns

441
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: out there. They actually used to put video content on

442
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: these round silver discs. I think you could still buy

443
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 1: them at various stores. Is that over or is the

444
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: DVD finished? Or is this going to be a format

445
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: and blue ray and and four K and and everything else?

446
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: Is this gonna have any sort of legs? Sure? Um,

447
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: it will get harder and harder obviously in smaller quantities

448
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: to manufacture at economies of scale this kind of technology. However,

449
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: I look at some markets like Japan. I mean, Japan

450
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: really has a robust DVD business and seems to be

451
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: a part of a lot of people's lifestyle. Go to

452
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 1: the corner DVD store each night and pick something up.

453
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: So don't they have a robust album like an LP

454
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: uh full thirty three's? I think that's and as well

455
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: as CDs. They haven't moved away from the physical und

456
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: There is that, and let's face it, there's very few

457
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: forms of predecessor media that completely vanishes. People are still

458
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: buying radios, right, They still do. It's not as big

459
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: a business. You can go though, into any best buy

460
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: or radio check around here and probably buy a transistor radio.

461
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: Now they're gonna have to produce less at better prices,

462
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: So I don't think it necessarily goes away right away,

463
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: but but it's obviously fading and it will over time.

464
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about the difference between streaming versus downloading.

465
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: So when you download something you essentially own it or

466
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: rent it for a period of time, versus just streaming

467
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: on demand. How are those two businesses different? And as

468
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: either of those um likely to become the dumb and

469
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: in methodology or are they going to co exist? They

470
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: have to coexist, and I think download is getting um

471
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: a dangerous short shrift, by which I mean it used

472
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: to be my personal frustration as a guy on the

473
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: planes A lot is with Netflix. I can't download anything,

474
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: I can't watch anything, I can't stream in an airplane.

475
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: We all get frustrated about that. But that is, let's say,

476
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: an elitist problem. Maybe that's very much a first world issue,

477
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: but you know what, it's a bigger third world issue.

478
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: You know what I'll tell you, because think about this.

479
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: In a developing world, it costs a lot of money

480
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: to stream. Bandwidth is actually really slow, yet on demand

481
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: contents really valued. So what a lot of people are

482
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: doing in countries that represum one two three billion people.

483
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: They'll go, for instance, to a mall where there's free WiFi,

484
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: they watch there, but where they can download, that's where

485
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: they download. So they download everything for free, go home

486
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: and watch it. So the idea of even emporary downloads

487
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: is so necessary for the long term health of the

488
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: streaming business, and not just to please your consumers. I mean,

489
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: if you're in Dubai or if you're in Thailand and

490
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: you're paying forty dollars and data charges to download, you're

491
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: gonna be upset at your provider. But I would also

492
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: say for the studios, the producers of content themselves and

493
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: get wigged out about downloads. If you don't offer temporary

494
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: downloads to your paying streaming customers, it'll be pirated then

495
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: the next day. So you make the choice really well, yeah,

496
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: because if something is available at a reasonable cost, you're

497
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: already subscribing to a streaming service and it's their day

498
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: and day with the debut of the show in the US,

499
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: you'll get it on your streaming service and everyone gets

500
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: paid in the value chain. And if it's not there

501
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: or you can't download it, and you're gonna have to

502
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: pay a fortune to streaming and you're never gonna do

503
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: it because the quality of streaming is bad anyway, someone

504
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: just gonna go home on their connected broadband and pirated.

505
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: So let's talk about piracy. How significant is piracy? How

506
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: serious do you think piracy is? Um to the content

507
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: producing side of the world. Look, it's huge and there's

508
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: all different stats on measurement um, but it hasn't stopped

509
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: um the producer of the Game of Thrones being in business.

510
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: They're making a ton of money. It's just how much

511
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 1: more money should they be making? I don't know, nor

512
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: does anyone know the answer, but some of the solutions

513
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: are For instance, I think iTunes did a great job

514
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: of offering really an easy interface, a fast download at

515
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: an affordable price, which kind of made it almost a

516
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: no brainer. You know, I don't care. Let's not rip

517
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: it off because it's it's really painless. A couple of bucks,

518
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: five bucks for a movie. Why wouldn't you do that?

519
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: And it's for a song? Um, the the video business

520
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: has to be doing that. You have to offer people,

521
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: most importantly, big shows literally simultaneously, day and date, all

522
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: around the world. If Game of Thrones is here at

523
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: ten pm one night and they're doing this now, it's

524
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: got to be shown everywhere. Otherwise someone's pirated here and

525
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: send it over there, right yeah, or pirate it over

526
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: there because it's it's all connected. Now we've been speaking

527
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: with Bruce Tuckman. He used to run MGM Global and

528
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: AMC International, bringing a number of US channels to a

529
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: hundred and forty different countries around the world. Uh. If

530
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: you enjoy this conversation about video streaming and on demand,

531
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: be sure and stick around for a podcast extras where

532
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: we keep the tape rolling and continue chatting about all

533
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: things television. Be sure and check out my daily column

534
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg View dot com or follow me on Twitter

535
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: at rit Halts. We love your comments and feedback. Be

536
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: sure and write to us at m IB podcast at

537
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot net. I'm Barry Rihults. You've been listening to

538
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: Master's in Business on Bloomberg Radio, brought to you by

539
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Seeing what others have seen,

540
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: but uncovering what others may odd. Global research that helps

541
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: you harness disruption. Voted top global research firm five years running,

542
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith Incorporated. Welcome to the podcast, Bruce,

543
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this. This is really

544
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: quite interesting when when we first met and talked about

545
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: what you did. I was very much intrigued, not just

546
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: because I'm kind of a classic film fan and and

547
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: really a television idiot, but the idea of taking us

548
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: content and saying, let's turn this into an international business

549
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: is really quite fascinating. So, UM, let's see what questions

550
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: I missed before we jump into our favorites. Um. Oh, Sundance.

551
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: We really didn't talk about Sundance Channel, which I wanted to.

552
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: So the original Robert Redford sun Dance Festival eventually became

553
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: a channel, and I kind of remember the line something

554
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: about honoring Robert Redford's mission to celebrate distinctive storytelling from

555
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: independent voices. Is that more or less the That's correct,

556
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: and I think he's always said it best. Um, and

557
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: I would add to that because what he's always also

558
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: said is that's another not otherwise being heard in the

559
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: mainstream media. That makes sense. That's what drove me in

560
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: terms of the Sundance International expansion. They're doing different things

561
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 1: now in the US that I didn't run I won't

562
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: speak to, but um, that propelled justin three years I

563
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: was able to take with my team that channel from

564
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: a couple of countries to about eighty countries around the world.

565
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: With that in mind, when you think about it, Uh,

566
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: the US majors are producing maybe a hundred twenty films

567
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 1: a year and that's what dominates the pay movie TV

568
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: channels all over the world. Yet at Sundance alone, there's

569
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: thousands of independent films that are submitted, So so it

570
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty US mainstream films per year feature

571
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: film and just submitted to the festivals over thousand, thousands, thousands,

572
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: And that's just Sundance. So what's I think happening, and

573
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 1: what Robert Redford was speaking to is so much more

574
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,479
Speaker 1: content is being produced independently and it's not getting it's

575
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,479
Speaker 1: let's say, strict fair share of the air time. Now,

576
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: some of the content may not be great, and a

577
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: lot of the Hollywood film content it's not great either,

578
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: But I think what allowed us to expand so much

579
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: and get so much real estate with cable operators are

580
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: all around the world was just simply that premise. You're

581
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: missing a lot of great content and it's actually not

582
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: that expensive compared to what you're paying for some of

583
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: the Hollywood film content, and it's just going to add

584
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: to diversity of voices, and we'll bring in a lot

585
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: of and what we did a lot around the world.

586
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: We've run a lot of local independent films. So when

587
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: I think of Robert Redford, he's an I an icon.

588
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: Um here we are post election, everybody had on Twitter

589
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: had the shot of the candidate, which was a very

590
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: famous film of his. You know that. Now what do

591
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: we do now? Right? That's exactly it. So I saw

592
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: that last night. Go around, Um, they're butch casting the

593
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: Sundance kid. Go down the list of films, um that

594
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: he was active in. They're just an amazing run of movies.

595
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: But it's such an American brand. Does that play overseas

596
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: or or am I imagining that people overseas are are

597
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: are more different from us than perhaps I should? It

598
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: plays overseas and that if there's any brand that's anonymous

599
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: with independent film, it's Sundance. Now will your run of

600
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: the mill guy walking down the street in some country

601
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: two thousand miles away, No, Sundance. Maybe maybe not, but

602
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: I think everyone, Uh, there's there's a big market wherever

603
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: you go for independent film, especially independ in film that

604
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: features stories and characters from your own country. That isn't

605
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: just the mass package, commercialized stuff you're getting out of Hollywood. Um,

606
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: so that helps. But particularly in this business of channels,

607
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: you're you're selling to usually big cable operators, and the

608
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: people running these big cable operators and very sophisticated. They've

609
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: been to Sundance, they're very familiar with it. So let's

610
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: talk about AMC a little bit. We were talking earlier

611
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: about Walking Dead and mad Men and Breaking Bad. By

612
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: the time you joined AMC, I'm doing this from memory.

613
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm guessing mad Men had already been in production for

614
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: a while, Breaking Bad was just starting, and then towards

615
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: the ladder end, that's when Walking Dead came exactly. So

616
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: as this comes first comes out, do you have any

617
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: idea what sort of a giant cultural impact these are

618
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: going to have and how do you think about taking

619
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: that and applying it to overseas me that's a great question. Um.

620
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: Madman certainly was, by the way, that is such an

621
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: again iconic, like just when you think of that late

622
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: fifties early sixties era and Don Draper has become an

623
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: arch type now, that arch type of of you know,

624
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: the hard drinking three martini launch, smoking womanizing sort of guy. Again,

625
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: does that play overseas or is it such a cliche

626
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 1: that they eat it up over it plays overseas? And interestingly,

627
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: that guy now and and his acolytes won the election

628
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: last night. I don't mean him. I was thinking, by

629
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: the way, it's as I was saying that I was

630
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: going to say something witty about that sort of hard drinking,

631
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: heart smoking womanizing. Although Trump doesn't drink, you know, he

632
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: famously is a teetotaler, but that sort of presidential candidate,

633
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 1: and I thought better of it. But since you brought

634
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: it up. Uh, When Bush was president and you traveled

635
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: over the overseas, there was a sense that he was

636
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: really looked at as a cowboy. He's from Texas, goes

637
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: from the gut, invades various countries. There was really a

638
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: stereotypical American, uh, perception of Bush that way. So so

639
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: how do you use how the world perceives the United States?

640
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: As much as they may on occasion criticize us or

641
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: dislike us or argue with us about different things, they

642
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: seem to overseas seems to love American culture. They love

643
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: American content. It's been interesting in my career because my

644
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: international career started with Reagan in office, So Reagan and

645
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: Bush and I suppose Trump. It does become difficult just

646
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: in casual conversations with people. Um often it wasn't like

647
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: meaning meaning. So my personal experiences is you fly into

648
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: Berlin from New York and when when or I flew

649
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: recall trips to London as well, and there was a

650
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: very diffident if that's the right word. Cool oh an

651
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: American like a real at customs. Yeah, Canadians were always

652
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: nice to go to Montreal, Vancouver or you know, they

653
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: seem to be very um uh friendly to Americans, but

654
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: the Europeans were certainly post uh the Iraq invasion. There

655
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 1: was definitely a little bit of a chill, and part

656
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: of you was like, am I imagining this? And then

657
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: once Obama was elected and you went overseas, it was

658
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: a completely different come on in it was it was

659
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: a whole different attitude. And I was like, I recall

660
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: going back to Berlin and back to London and thinking,

661
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't my imagination. They're much nicer now

662
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 1: than they were the last time I was here, when

663
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: when it was a different president. So we have no

664
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: idea what the rest of the world is going to

665
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: be like when it comes to Trump, other than I

666
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: think we have a good idea because you hear a lot.

667
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends abroad, I do a

668
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: lot of business abroad. Um, I often find you have

669
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: to defend and explain u S policies for good or

670
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: for bad. Bill Clint was also very popular. Um, that's

671
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: just what it is. But when we're in that position

672
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: of people think there's bad developments in the US, that does,

673
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: from time to time wind up impacting the political environment

674
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: of a country you're operating, which sometimes bleeds into the

675
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: regulatory environment, which sometimes makes it a little harder to

676
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: get your stuff done. So that I imagine that, and

677
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: then part of me again it's like, now you're being paranoid.

678
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: That's not really well, okay, I'll give you an example.

679
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: So okay. So the EU, especially with the UK out,

680
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: I imagine, is going to get more line with the

681
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: French and German point of view in terms of regulation

682
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: of meat it which is much stricter than where the

683
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: Brits have always been, where the Americans always been. That

684
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: will get tighter and tighter. You need diplomacy between the

685
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: US and the EU. If that's lacking, and they're not

686
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: going to listen to our entreaties to say, loosen up

687
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: these rags. Loosen up. It's not gonna happen. So that's

688
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: that's what are the regulations like. And so just between

689
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,399
Speaker 1: the US and the UK, we know they're libel laws

690
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: are very different. They're much stricter. In the United States.

691
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: If you're slandering a public figure, you actually have to

692
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: show malicious intense. You know, it's an excuse to say, oh,

693
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 1: I was innocently wrong, I read it on Facebook or whatever. Um.

694
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: In the UK, there isn't that. It's a much stricter

695
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: you're telling me. Go to France and England and it's

696
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: even stricter. Well, what I was talking about was content

697
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: restrictions or licensing regulations rather than liable. I can't speak

698
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: to libel, so let's talk about about content. Well, let's

699
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: talk about privacy. On the other hand, they're much stricter.

700
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: Well you've seen that with Google, with Google searches, you

701
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: have to delete people's searches in France, which is certainly

702
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: not the case here. I don't know how Facebook deals

703
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: with that in Europe, right, So I think as we

704
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: try to harmonize these regimes, especially for technology, and that

705
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: knows no borders, less strict regime here in the US,

706
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,479
Speaker 1: more strict within the EU EU. I don't know which

707
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: way Trump will go on this, but the point is

708
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 1: governments have to talk about that. And if governments are

709
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: not getting along, they don't agree with each other. And

710
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: that's a big challenge that we face. That's really fascinating. Um.

711
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, ironically things make it easier.

712
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: With Russia, which has become very regulated in terms of media,

713
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: didn't used to be that way. Um. If when one

714
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: savings grace, I I don't know that US sets everything else. Well,

715
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,439
Speaker 1: when you say regulated, do you mean you know, killing

716
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: journalists or do you mean their actual So just for

717
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 1: my business linear TV business, funny quick story in or seven,

718
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: I believe I did a deal. I launched the Nickelodeon

719
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: channel in Russia. In Russian and they're emerging pay TV

720
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: businessman's a million two million subscribers. Are so proud of that.

721
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: I went there for launch. Really meant a lot to me.

722
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 1: And at that time I didn't need a broadcast license.

723
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: I didn't need any interference at all or anything to

724
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: do with the media authorities. Now twenty years later, you

725
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: need several broadcast licenses. You cannot own a majority of

726
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: your own brand. And the reason so all of these

727
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: regulations over time have gotten stricter and stricter. What gets

728
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: them less strict or more accommodating to US interest is

729
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: really through our trade reps are diplomats who try to

730
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: negotiate things that work across the board. So my kind

731
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 1: of joke is it makes it easier with Russia, because

732
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: that's about it. That that's a but that's a really

733
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: interesting point. And we really haven't talked about the eight

734
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 1: pound guerrilla in the room, which is China. What's it

735
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: like bringing television to China? Do they want us content?

736
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: How easy are they to deal with? Piracy? Seems to

737
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: be rampant there? Tell us about China. US content too,

738
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: is hugely popular in China. Local Chinese content is more popular.

739
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: But China has a fascinating business which no one even

740
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: appreciates and you don't see in other countries. But I

741
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: call it a vod or advertising video on demand or

742
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: free video on demand. How does that work? There are

743
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 1: five or six different sites you can put on your laptop.

744
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: You can get an app for your TV. You can

745
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: watch on your mobile device. You go. You literally it's

746
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: free and it features first run day and day programming

747
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: often from US studios and everything else, and you watch

748
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: and it's ad supporting really so instead of like Netflix,

749
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: And it could be that. So that's the YouTube model,

750
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: or or theoretically the Yahoo model. It is the YouTube

751
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: mode as its ad support. It's the only market that

752
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: can probably do that because it's so big and nobody

753
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 1: so it makes sense. It's you have to have volume

754
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: in the U again, first world issue. We would rather

755
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: pay up for the premium model or the technology like

756
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: a DVR to go bypass the advertising. They're happy to

757
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: take it because it's free. I think that's that. That

758
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: could be it. Yes, absolutely it is. Now as they

759
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: start to make more money, are they are they going

760
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: to have the same issue that we have where a

761
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: little bit of wealth and people become impatient. Then I

762
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: want to watch to be determined. But what's happening in

763
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 1: China now because the wealth really has to get there.

764
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: A lot of this viewing is on um probably even

765
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 1: better working show me devices, you know, very good hand

766
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: set tablets, and a lot of people are watching that way,

767
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: especially a lot of the young people, they may not

768
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: have two or three TVs in their homes, so that's

769
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: how a lot of content is being watched. And they

770
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: have more money. They have more time than money, so

771
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: they're happy to do it if it's free. Sure, huh,

772
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: that's that's quite fascinating. What before we get to our

773
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: standard questions, Let's let's what else can you tell us

774
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: about China that we probably don't know? I think, um,

775
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: there's questions obviously about the macro economy and China the

776
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: banking system, but at least what I say, huge amounts

777
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: of debt. But I mean from from what you do,

778
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: what do you see that booming, booming, entertainment booming? Uh?

779
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: It was it will soon be the largest movie market

780
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: in the world. That's it's not already. I just assume

781
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: given the number of people, it's about to cross that threshold.

782
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: Obviously that has already changed so much if you think

783
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: about what's being shown in our own theaters. I read

784
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: a while ago that because the overseas um rights are

785
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: so valuable that very often when there is a expensive

786
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: film to be made, even the storyline has to be

787
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: built so that it's going to be a Winner in China,

788
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: and you you pre sell the foreign rights before you

789
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: even make the film. So where it used to be

790
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: perhaps that the Chinese was the bad guy, now it's

791
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: a Cold War enemy, it's the Koreans, it's the Russians,

792
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: it's somebody not Oh, it's evil China. You're not gonna

793
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: have that made. If you're producing a mass market movie

794
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: where you want to break the bank in terms of

795
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: box office, if you're not thinking about how things are

796
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: gonna go over in China, you've just cut off nearly

797
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: half of your potential revenue, or at least that's the

798
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 1: way we're going. So why would anyone make that business

799
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: decisions sort of like making a car and deciding I

800
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: will not ever put the driver's the wheel on the

801
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: right side for the driver. So just you give up

802
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: the UK, you give up Japan, you give up any

803
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: of the UK former territory right way that they still are.

804
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 1: You gotta you gotta adapt. Yeah. Um. I think it

805
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: was in Guila where we rented a car and they

806
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: pull them around and I'm like, oh, that's right, and

807
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: you ever drive that for the first time? Yeah, oh yeah,

808
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: you just basically my rule of thumb was um, just

809
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: make sure that you're you're What was worse was we

810
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: were driving a left hand drive on the oh that

811
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: was that was the car showed up where they pull

812
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: up on the wrong side of the road with the

813
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: left hand So my thing was just make sure that

814
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: the curb is next to me. So in the US

815
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: the curb is next to the passenger. Now you have

816
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: to be so wherever you go and and left and

817
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: right's got to be a little confusing. It's released. I'm

818
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: still amazed that they will let you drive instantly because

819
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: I think for people who haven't done it before, I'm

820
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: not sure if there were drivers drunk or if there

821
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: worth doing that. It's very just gonna say sober. It's

822
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: not difficult. But you go to dinner, you have not

823
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: even drunk. You have a drink or two with dinner,

824
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 1: and you're a little I we went to this place

825
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: and I drove back from it, and the first five

826
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: minutes of the drive back, I'm on the U S

827
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: side of the road, and I was sober enough clear,

828
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, a drink with dinner is not gonna someone

829
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: my size is not gonna make me that compromise. But

830
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: for the first it feels like five minutes was probably

831
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: the first thirty seconds. Oh gee, I'm on the wrong

832
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: side of the road. I have to get out. But

833
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: by the way, what country was it Sweden that they

834
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: stopped at noon and reversed the sides right? I don't

835
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 1: remember if it was Sweden or somewhere else, but literally

836
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: everybody stopped one day. And but my point is a

837
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: drunken person driving in the US all right, is shouldn't

838
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 1: be driving, and they're dangerous. And a neophite person who's

839
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: never driven on the other side of the road in

840
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: the UK is also dangerous president and they quite as dangerous,

841
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: but it could be closed. And then trying to shift, well,

842
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: the stick shift is easy, but you make the turn,

843
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: and you know, your brain goes through a set of

844
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: muscle memories, especially right, a left turn here, is a

845
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: right turn there, and it's just too easy to make

846
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: the turn and end up on the wrong So that's

847
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 1: how I ended up in the wrong side of the road.

848
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: You come out of a driveway and it makes sense

849
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: from a restaurant, makes sense to stay. But I digress.

850
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: So so um, I don't know how we got to

851
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: that point, but it's the Chinese film market and how

852
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: volcanic you can't encounter it comes. This is really gonna

853
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: drive content. China's going to help drive content for the future.

854
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: So I know I only have you for a finite

855
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: amount of time. Let's let's jump to our standard questions.

856
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: And you know I only briefly talked about you at

857
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: Scanton Arps. So you're at Scanton Arms, you're doing M

858
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: and A work. How did you end up? What was

859
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: the transition from lawyer to television channel executive? How did

860
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 1: that come about? Um? You know, you become a more

861
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: senior associated as I have been doing, and you get

862
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: to the point if you're doing well, you run your

863
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: first or second big deal and it's exciting. You learn

864
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: a lot and a lot of people, meet a lot

865
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: of people. But then you realize, you know what, I'm

866
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: going to be doing this around the clock for another

867
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: four or five years if I can become partner. I've

868
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: learned a lot and UM, but I've always been driven

869
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: just by passion and I didn't want to give up

870
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: that opportunity. So it took a determined effort. This was

871
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: before the internet. I sent out cold really yeah, I really, UM,

872
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: and you have done enough television related work that you

873
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: had expertise in it and you could talk about beast

874
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: Guy B and everything else. Yeah, but more so I did.

875
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: I did a lot of international work, which I think

876
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: was even more valued because there's plenty of people, you know,

877
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: television at the time, at least in terms of TV

878
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: branded channels that warning out a lot of people who

879
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 1: knew how to set things up internet. So you sending

880
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 1: mail out, you're coming from a firm with a great reputation.

881
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: Who was the first entity that that? So I got

882
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: a MTV Networks among others, said come on in, and

883
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: I was thrilled. As a young man, I was thirty

884
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: maybe and I'm like, this coolest thing happening to maybe

885
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 1: back way back in the eighties and nineties, MTV was

886
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 1: his hip posit. I just wanted the business card. I

887
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: just wanted that business card. And uh, I tell my

888
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: kids now, because things are different, I say it was

889
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: the Google. Then you just gotta understand, it's like, what

890
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: do you think that in terms of hipness that that

891
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: might be. There was a period of time where MTV

892
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: was was huge, absolutely huge, and around that time was

893
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: when you um took them into national Yeah, I mean,

894
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: I I helped that. I was more I was coming

895
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: up in my career then, so I was part of

896
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 1: a team that really did that. But it was great

897
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: work because MTV was so influential in my life because

898
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: it came right at that, you know, seventeen or so

899
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: when it came out, and uh, it's about right, we're

900
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 1: about the same manage, and that was you know, that

901
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: was my home base for years up until I probably

902
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: had kids, and then it became news channels. But um

903
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: so what do you kids find cool and hip today?

904
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: That's the MTV of of the modern era? Is it?

905
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: Is it Snapchat? Is it things like that? Or? I

906
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: hope my my thirteen year old won't get mad at

907
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: me for this story. But she once said to me, Dad,

908
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: I want a TV in my room. I go, why

909
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,240
Speaker 1: you don't watch TV? She goes, well, Jordan, her older

910
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: sister has one. Go yeah, but you don't ever watch it? Um, yeah, right,

911
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 1: I just want a big iPad on my wall. And

912
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: that's what she's looking at. Yes, So they're every Really

913
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: there's so little linear watching going on. And it's just

914
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: not my kids. It's it's the generation. There's no generation.

915
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that. So you mentioned you are

916
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: part of a team. Let's let's talk about your mentors.

917
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: Who who mentored your career? Um? You know, I had

918
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: a lot of a handful of people have really inspired

919
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: me throughout my career. So UM, I wasn't one of

920
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: those kind of people who have traveled from my companies

921
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: with the boss who got moved to these other companies.

922
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: I forged that on my own. But big inspirations to

923
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: me at Scattered. There were two attorneys in particular, guy

924
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: named Finn Fogg who was a big m and a

925
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: guy from the eighties and nineties just not just a

926
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: brilliant lawyer, but I learned from him how to be

927
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: cool as a lawyer, just how to be charismatic, what's important,

928
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: what isn't Um, they don't teach that in law school.

929
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 1: They don't teach that in law school. So I really

930
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: learned a lot from him. Another attorney there, Nancy Lieberman,

931
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: really taught me the value of how hard you have

932
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: to work for perfection. It's not good enough that you

933
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: can't have a type. You shouldn't have a type of

934
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: people are paying you a lot of money, not just

935
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: for your substance, but everything else. I learned a lot

936
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: from her, UM I think UM. I was also inspired

937
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: a lot by when I worked at MGM Alex uman Agian,

938
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: who was Kirk Korian's right hand man who ran the studio.

939
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: That just a very good faith man who believed a

940
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: lot in the principles he has spoused, looked out for

941
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: his people, but also challenge people. UM and had a

942
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: just ran a tight and a smart ship. UM. Tom

943
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,959
Speaker 1: Freston inspired me at MTV Networks because I just think

944
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: is the first time I saw someone who who always

945
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: put creative first. But that made sense because you know,

946
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 1: these are a lot of people treat the media business

947
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: like their businesses. They get too focused on the balance

948
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:44,919
Speaker 1: sheet and the p n L without realizing you've got

949
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: to make the product hot, and you gotta make the

950
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 1: brand hot, and you've gotta value those kind of people

951
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: who can figure that out. I I just finished reading

952
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: We'll get two books in a few minutes. But I

953
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 1: just finished reading two Pixar and be and by the

954
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: former CFO who was Lawrence Levy was recruited UM by

955
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs to basically come rescue Pixar, and amongst other things,

956
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 1: he said their secret source was how the corporate side,

957
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: how the finance side essentially left the creative alone, and

958
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: it was actually built in to the corporate culture and

959
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: the entire structure. Hey, the geniuses who are creating toy story,

960
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: you're not gonna you can't mess with that. No notes, No,

961
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: you know movie executive saying hey, can we can we

962
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: bring in a girl to this, uh, you know, a

963
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 1: toy to be Woody's friend or whatever. It is the

964
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: sort of nonsense that you hear about with that. It's

965
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 1: that same concept of of you have to to keep

966
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: the creative side separate. Still aren't. And I would ask

967
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: you look at any media company right now and their

968
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: story and where they are and their revolution in their arc,

969
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: and more often than not you can explain it as

970
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: to whose rule in the house is that the right

971
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: brain or the left brain side of the brain. Um. So,

972
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: when you see a mediocre television show, when you see

973
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: a film, do you ever look at it and say, oh,

974
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: you could see the the accountants messed around with this. Definitely,

975
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: you can see all the compromis, the suits got suits

976
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: or whatever, or when it becomes so obvious why they

977
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: skimped on this character or they put that in or whatever.

978
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: And and that's the challenge from movies because sometimes you know,

979
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: it looks that way, not always. I have one other

980
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: great mentor though, in TV business, guy named Bruce Paisner,

981
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: who's the CEO and president of the International Emmy Organization

982
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: long term hearst executive. I mean for years he has

983
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: just been a good friend of mine and a great

984
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: leader and incredibly gracious and wonderful sounding board. UM. So

985
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: those have been my mentors. And so so let's talk about,

986
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: um certain business bull who influenced, um, your concept? Who

987
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: who affected how you look at running a studio, running

988
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: a channel, running a bringing a US property international? Um?

989
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 1: What was creat about the opportunities I've had. I was

990
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: really there at the first wave of bringing these channels abroad,

991
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: and um, we had invented as we went along. So

992
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: I hate to say this, but I often learned by

993
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: other people's mistakes, people who may came a year or

994
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: two before me, or who were hired before I got hired,

995
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: And at first bringing these channels abroad for a lot

996
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: of people, this was a financial bath, much like it is. Really.

997
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm stunned. I would have thought that this

998
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 1: would have been a gold mine. It took years to

999
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: become a gold mine. It did. Now it's going to

1000
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: fade again because linear is fading. How so wait, let me,

1001
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: let's digress a little bit. How long of the process

1002
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: was it. Did this go from g was spending a

1003
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: ton of money and we're not seeing anything to wow,

1004
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,919
Speaker 1: we put X number of years and and the money

1005
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: is just rolling. So no one who copped to it,

1006
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: But I'd say overall longer than expected for a lot

1007
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 1: of people. A lot had to do with people started

1008
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: launching before the markets were even there, so it seemed

1009
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: like a no brainer. Cable and satellite or cable big

1010
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: in the US, so it's gonna be eventually in Europe

1011
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: and it's going to be eventually. Was it better to

1012
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: be early than late? Do you run into a competitive disadvantage?

1013
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: Or those people who hung in there started early, had

1014
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: four site and said I'm gonna lookive fifteen years. Of

1015
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: course they've done well. They have the best position in

1016
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: the market right now. So yes, And there were people

1017
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: and I admire some to Redstone for things like that,

1018
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,479
Speaker 1: for hanging in there and wanting to just keep going

1019
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: at it. Those people at foresight and not everyone else did.

1020
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: How long did it take before this actually became profitable?

1021
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: The pends on the channel and the market. Some people,

1022
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: if I said five years, am I out of line?

1023
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: Five years seemed to have been the normal business plan projection.

1024
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: But honestly, with some of the businesses I launched, we

1025
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: gotten the first year profitability. Others took a lot longer,

1026
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: and still others for other people may not have made

1027
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: money to this day. So let's talk a little bit

1028
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: about books. Everybody always loves this segment. I get questions

1029
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: quest all the time, Hey, what what were the books?

1030
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: As somebody recommended? So tell me some of your favorite

1031
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: books that either relate to this field or wholly unrelated.

1032
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: I'm a big fiction guy. Uh huh. So I jotted

1033
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: down those guys who's really influenced me throughout my life

1034
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: when I was a young person. Jersey Kazinski, who my

1035
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: mind that was being there and Painted Bird by the way,

1036
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: Being There eventually becomes the Peter Seller's movie correct Painted Bird.

1037
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't remember what became of that, but that was

1038
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 1: a big book. Yeah. Escaped young boy who escaped the

1039
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: Holocaust and led a group of refugees, um but gripping intense,

1040
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: and at the time there were not a lot of

1041
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: books like that other than uh nonfiction UM descriptions of

1042
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: what happened UM. I was really influenced as a team

1043
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: by Garcia Marquez A Hundred Years of Solitude. I still

1044
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 1: consider that my favorite novel. UM. I love Philip Roth.

1045
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm very happy Bob Dylan got the Nobel

1046
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: play before Let's Let's go back before you um so again,

1047
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,959
Speaker 1: same same age, same demographic background. I was a little

1048
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: annoyed at Portnoy's complaint for writing my autobiography before I

1049
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 1: had a chance to write it, and I don't know

1050
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: if you had a similar I read as a teenager

1051
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: right right, I was. I was literally a teenager on

1052
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: the beach when I read it, and I was like,

1053
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: how is somebody allowed to even write this stuff? It's

1054
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: amazing and hilarious. One of the funniest books I've ever read.

1055
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's today, if a seventeen role

1056
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: picked up that book, if it would be as funny

1057
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: to them as it was to It's not, but it

1058
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: established the genre. No one was talking with that kind

1059
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: of profanity personally about sex, and there would be no

1060
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: Woody Allen. If it wasn't even for that book, that's

1061
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: somewhat true. I could certainly see that that that progression,

1062
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: there would be a hilarity saved for that book. I

1063
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: think he started it all. But then if you look

1064
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: at his transformation, if you look at some of his

1065
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 1: later ones, like Indignation, they could be too totally different

1066
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: human beings. Um, what's the most recent book he just

1067
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: put out? I guess would it be Indignation? I mean

1068
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: they just made that into it? What was the one

1069
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: right before that? Every? Okay? So uh, you know these

1070
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: last several books have been thinner, sparer moving plot against America.

1071
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: You know everyone's been pointing to that as what foreshadow

1072
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: what happened last night? Um? So I think he really

1073
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 1: was and is the most worthy author of the Nobel Prize.

1074
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: And um, one day he'll get his due. I really

1075
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: like a French offer Michelle Welbeck, who's just mind blowing,

1076
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: and just his last couple not so much. But um,

1077
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: what what's your favorite title of this? I like a

1078
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: lot of people like Adamized, but mine is Platform is

1079
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: a novel he wrote which really blew me away. Just

1080
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: I think he he's fearless he broke a lot of

1081
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: norms with that. UM a nonfiction book which really moved me,

1082
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: and I gotta say probably really recommend anyone is Zuned

1083
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: by Dave Eggers. This is about someone who survived Hurricane Katrina,

1084
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 1: Muslim man. What happened to him? Muslim building contractor who

1085
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: and this is nonfiction nonfiction zits z Tun the fellow's

1086
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 1: last name. Great guy who was saving people at businesses

1087
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: and treated quite unfairly by the authorities. Who he was.

1088
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: UM that movements one can imagine how that plays out.

1089
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: That moved me. UM. I really liked UM. I just

1090
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: read Jonathan Saffran Four's new novel here I Am. I

1091
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: liked a lot, especially as it went on. It was

1092
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: very thought provoking. UM. Sacred Games is a Man Booker

1093
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 1: Prize runner up from India from Chandra that really someone

1094
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 1: else referenced victim genre and I don't remember who it was.

1095
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: I'll have to have to take a closer look. Great

1096
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: novel and I really liked it. Really, I still think

1097
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: about it's so creative that the Yiddish Policeman's Union, the

1098
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: Shabon book where it's an alternative history. My wife read it.

1099
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: I haven't I haven't gotten so after the war World

1100
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 1: War two, Israel is not created and instead the US

1101
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: gives homeland to Jews and and sit Calaska, and how

1102
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: that all develops, and there's a there's a fuse on

1103
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: it because they it's gonna end after I think it

1104
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: was fifty years the gift of the franchise, so um.

1105
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: But the world he created the way he wrote that

1106
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: that book. Really, you know, there's been a run of

1107
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: alternative historical realities. The frame of reference for me has

1108
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: always been Philip K. Dick's Man in the High Castle,

1109
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 1: which a talk show host wakes up and the is

1110
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: surprised to discover that World War Two didn't play out

1111
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: the way we all recall. The US lost to Germany

1112
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: and Japan, who have divided up the US and are

1113
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: um in the process of absorbing it to the parent

1114
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: company countries. And it's just he's infamous for multiple layers

1115
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: of reality. But I love the concept. I just started

1116
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 1: watching it a couple of months ago, and it's I

1117
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: thought the quality of of how it looks in the

1118
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: set design, and they really didn't admit you could see

1119
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 1: there's some real money beyond. We were talking about this earlier.

1120
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 1: They are not afraid to spend money on stuff and

1121
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: it and that made the difference because you know what,

1122
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 1: if you cheaped out on showing graphically what this alternative

1123
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: universe would not have worked. You had to get a

1124
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 1: certain tone and a certain tenor, and the way it

1125
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: looks and feels, and the way they do the maps

1126
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: and some of the I conography, and the way like

1127
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: they the Nazi symbols are Nazi symbols, but it's not

1128
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 1: just black and red swastika's. It's yeah, it's it's a

1129
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 1: little it's much more interesting and sophisticated. Then I think

1130
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 1: they nailed it. I mean to me that after seeing that,

1131
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: that's when I really started developing this theory. It's not original.

1132
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: I guess that in that kind of format, with that

1133
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 1: kind of money, where you're not doing commercials where you

1134
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 1: could do it a a hundred eighteen minute episode or whatever,

1135
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 1: they're just taking storytelling the whole different place than Basic cable,

1136
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 1: and certainly that broadcasts can Season two is kind of

1137
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 1: On December, I was gonna say, I'm almost done with

1138
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: season one, and uh, I'll binge it over the holidays

1139
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: and and get ready for season two. I've also loved

1140
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:33,520
Speaker 1: some of the comedies like Catastrophe, which is so interesting

1141
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: and just not anything you would ever see on on

1142
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: US television. And I used to love these shows on

1143
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 1: on BBC, like Coupling was this hilarious. You always thought

1144
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: Friends was kind of toothless. It was just a randy,

1145
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: funny version of a uniquely British version of of of

1146
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: six young people engaging and everything they engage in, and

1147
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: they tried to do in the United States and they

1148
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: just and then they actually turned that concept. If you've

1149
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 1: watched the Matt LeBlanc Show episodes, it's about bringing over

1150
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 1: this really intelligent, well written show from London, uh in

1151
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,799
Speaker 1: in a a boys school with all the class issues

1152
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: and everything else, and they bring it over the US

1153
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: and they make the headmaster into a hockey coach, like

1154
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: they couldn't dumb it down anymore. And then it's about

1155
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: the battle between the writers the actors, and it's very

1156
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: much a I loved Larry Sanders show. This is very

1157
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 1: much long the uh but I'm supposed to be asking

1158
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: you about books, not talking about television. UM, any other

1159
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: books you want to reference, nonfiction or fiction? UM, that's

1160
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: that's a good run. Yeah, I'm reading the Association of

1161
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: Small Bombs. Is that the novel that was also I

1162
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: think a man Booker runner up? Was it this year

1163
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: or that last? I just started it. See, I wish

1164
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 1: I had more time for novels. What I read is

1165
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: non fiction or biography, your history or or market related.

1166
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: But um, I have a list of novels. I'm just

1167
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: dynastis you know the travel I had to do that.

1168
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: I traveled so much abroad twelve hours. This is the

1169
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: only reason I've been able to read. And this is

1170
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: the only reason that I literally is flying back from Asia.

1171
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: And I'm not boasting or maybe I sound pathetic, but

1172
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: I watched all ten episodes of Man High Castle, all

1173
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: of them. I'm one trip back. I watched ten hours

1174
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: worth of it. I couldn't put it down. That that's uh,

1175
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: that's fascinating. Are you using physical books or is it

1176
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: a kindle or no? I really, um, if it's important

1177
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: to me, especially fiction, I'll only it's gonna be my

1178
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: old school little thing. I'm always only going to use

1179
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,480
Speaker 1: the physical book. I have a kindle in my my briefcase.

1180
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: But if I'm home and I want to read something

1181
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 1: like you're traveling, I don't. I used to go vacation,

1182
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 1: I bring eight books. I'd read four of them. You're

1183
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: dragging like a whole suitcase full of books. Now that

1184
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. You have a vacation, you bring a kindle,

1185
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 1: but it's still not the same as if it's not

1186
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: the same, and I'd like finishing the book. I like

1187
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 1: putting in my bookshelf. We're doing that for years, you know.

1188
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 1: In in some ways, I suppose it's like people who

1189
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 1: do deals and they want their loose sight que. You know,

1190
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: it's your loose cue if you read it, I remember

1191
01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: read it, and uh, I hope we don't know that.

1192
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 1: Um alright, So beyond books, we we talked about what's

1193
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: changed in the industry. What do you think the next

1194
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: shifts are going to be in in streaming video, video

1195
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 1: and demands and just generally in in entertainment and content creation.

1196
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: So I was at a conference recently and I was

1197
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 1: in a minority. They said, will TV be all apps? Apps?

1198
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 1: All apps? All apps? And I said yes, And people say,

1199
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 1: that's that's far fetched. But let me explain by what

1200
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean. UM, right now, he's proprietary, non internet technologies

1201
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:02,759
Speaker 1: to not stream but but transmit cable to your household,

1202
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: broadcast or or these are not scalable efficient technologies. They're

1203
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: going to come under more pressure as the markets decline

1204
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: because you just because of cost, because of cost, and

1205
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: because of scale, because less and less people are going

1206
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 1: to be using it. Now streaming is uh, it's it's

1207
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: self improving every day. If you want to improve your

1208
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: cable network overnight and do a whole bunch of things,

1209
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 1: you may have to take out boxes, rip out chords.

1210
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: Internet's very different, it's becoming very robust. So the future,

1211
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 1: which I think is not too long from now, everything

1212
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 1: will be streamed. It may look like you can watch

1213
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 1: CNN and it looks like linear and at whatever. But

1214
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: soon I think the whole technological base of TV will

1215
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 1: be based on IP protocol. So in a sense that

1216
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 1: is an app alright, you may not have to download.

1217
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like you buy it in the it's

1218
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:56,640
Speaker 1: not it's not the same. It's not the same, and

1219
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: it's I P. And that will lead us to a

1220
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 1: whole world where uh, you can do You'll be able

1221
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: to do amazing things with your channel, not even watch

1222
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,839
Speaker 1: a channel. You'll be able to watch the on demand elements,

1223
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,719
Speaker 1: the social commentary elements. I think that's where it's all going.

1224
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: So that's why I say the world is going to

1225
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,839
Speaker 1: be looking more like apps then it looks today. And

1226
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 1: and my last two and favorite questions. If if a

1227
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: millennial or recent college grad came to you and said, Hey,

1228
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: I'm interested in a career in television and video and content,

1229
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: what sort of advice would you give that, I'd say

1230
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:35,719
Speaker 1: digital social marketing is whoever figures that out and knows

1231
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,680
Speaker 1: it the way. Don Draper new advertising is going to

1232
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,600
Speaker 1: do really well in life because that conventional way of

1233
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 1: advertising is going gone with that next generation. Um, that's

1234
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:51,839
Speaker 1: a big business, UM, I think. And then content creation

1235
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 1: and just really being on the cutting edge of that, UM,

1236
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 1: we'll continue. People are always gonna want to see good

1237
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 1: TV in the US tends to except excel at that

1238
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: are are the difference between US and a lot of

1239
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: other places in the world aren't as big as it

1240
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,679
Speaker 1: was twenty years ago because the technology is now closing

1241
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: that gap and allowing people to you know, go into

1242
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: a Mac and and create things that would have required

1243
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: a twenty million dollar investment in an Avid and a

1244
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: whole bunch of other things back ten years ago. So, um,

1245
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 1: I think those are the two areas. And then in

1246
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 1: my final question, what is it that you know about

1247
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: content video overseas licensing today that you wish you knew

1248
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 1: when you started this career path twenty plus years ago? Um,

1249
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,840
Speaker 1: I would have gone much much even though we knew

1250
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 1: the Internet everyone says is gonna eat our launch. Um,

1251
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:50,759
Speaker 1: you eventually will. I would have personally gone much bigger

1252
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 1: into all of these stocks back in the mid nineties. Um,

1253
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: despite the dot com crash. Yeah, yeah, you gotta hang

1254
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 1: in there if you believe, because I think so. We

1255
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 1: always my whole career have been talking about how the

1256
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 1: Internet is really going to change everything. But now we're

1257
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: seeing it, and I think people thought it's going to

1258
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:13,280
Speaker 1: profoundly change everything. But in my view, in the next

1259
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:15,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's five, ten or fifteen years,

1260
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 1: it is going to be everything. And so how far

1261
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 1: along the transition from analog to digital from I love

1262
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 1: the expression meat space to online. How far along that

1263
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: process are we? So you know there used to be

1264
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 1: the last mile that there was the last hundred feet,

1265
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: there's less ten feet, which is about six seven years ago,

1266
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: and then that was breached. Now I call it the

1267
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: last three seconds of patients. That's it, because now you

1268
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: get these apps and your TV. It's kind of confusing,

1269
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 1: but each new generation TSE makes a lot and lot

1270
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: more seamless. The minute becomes entirely you don't even have

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01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: to think about what you're pressing, and you don't know

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01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: if it's Netflix or if it's CNN Live. That changes everything,

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01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: And you know what, that's the easiest part. It took

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01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 1: trillions of dollars to wire the world with fiber optics.

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01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,040
Speaker 1: That was the last got you the last mile. Then

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01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 1: to get you to that last ten feet, people were

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01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: digging up your driveways. I remember FiOS was in my

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01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 1: house for a week and a half. I don't know

1279
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 1: how they ever made money off of putting me onto files.

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01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 1: But now this last thing, this is gonna be This

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01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 1: is happening right now, and someone's gonna really figure out

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01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 1: how to integrate all of these experiences seamlessly over your

1283
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 1: television set, over your devices, and it's game over and

1284
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 1: it's a different game. Then that's where it's all going. Bruce,

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01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 1: thank you for doing this and being so generous with

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01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 1: your time we've been speaking with Bruce Tuckman. He was

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01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: with MGM International, amc UM Global and a number of

1288
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: other channels he helped bring worldwide. If you enjoy this conversation,

1289
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: be sure you look up an inch or down an

1290
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: inch on Apple iTunes and you could see the other

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01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: hundred and something plus UH shows we've done. Uh. Be

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01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 1: sure and right us. We love to hear your comments,

1293
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:11,520
Speaker 1: feedbacks and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast

1294
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. I would be remiss if I

1295
01:17:15,080 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: did not thank Taylor Riggs, our booker, and Michael Batnick,

1296
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: our head of research, for helping to produce everything you've

1297
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,759
Speaker 1: been listening to. Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio, brought

1298
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 1: to you by Bank of America Merrill Lynch committed to

1299
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: bringing higher finance to lower carbon named the most innovative

1300
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 1: investment bank for climate change and Sustainability by the Banker.

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01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: That's the power of Global Connections. Bank of America North

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01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: America member f D I C