WEBVTT - Voter Registration, Leading from the Inside Out, Squeezable Olive Oil 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:10.560 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg BusinessWeek 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:14.160 inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:18.239 most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.239 news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.440 and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.800 It is Bloomberg Business Week, Carol. One of the most 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.040 read stories on the Bloomberg terminal. Here's the headline. Taylor 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.320 Swift brings two hundred and eighty three million fans to 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.120 raise her thin twenty twenty four election. The world's biggest 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.600 pop star through her support behind the Democratic ticket, energizing 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.800 millions of her loyal fans. Yes, the campaign has started 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.640 taking pre orders for the Harris Walls friendship bracelets. 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:49.040 That's true. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.640 I'm serious. Wow, I don't I'm I saw a headline 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.920 somewhere that they're selling pretty well. Oh my god, they 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.920 might not even be available anymore. Speaking of friendship brace 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.720 it's Taylor Swift. She's a cultural phenomenon. Totally think sold 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.280 out concerts all over the world, her high profile relationship, 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.759 what her presence has brought to the NFL. Perhaps that's 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.640 why Democrats had for months speculated about Swift actually backing 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.600 their ticket. Well, Natalie Trann is the co founder of 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.160 I Am a Voter. It's a non partisan organization that 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.440 works to, in its words, quote, create a cultural shift 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:26.280 around voting and civic engagement. Natalie joins us from Los Angeles. 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.040 Kind of perfect timing for you to come on our program, Natalie, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.679 because I feel like if there were somebody who could 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:35.920 create a cultural shift in a razor thin margin race, 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.440 it is none other than Taylor Swift. What are your 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:39.160 thoughts on that. 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:41.120 She did it? 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.520 I'd had that post was pretty phenomenal, and I love 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:46.920 that she signed it off as a childless cat lady. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:49.520 We're showing her right now on her screen for those 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.120 people watching on YouTube and Bloomberg Originals. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:53.200 And she said, I will be casting my vote for 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.520 Kamala Harris and Tim Walls in the twenty twenty four 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.360 presidential election. I'm voting for at Kamala Harris. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.840 Kamala Harris because she fights for the rights and causes 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:02.720 I believe need a warrior to champion them. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.120 I mean, it was pretty wild, and the timing, you 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.040 know what was it less than a half an hour 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.920 after the end of the debate, tell us about I 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.920 want to take a step back your organization. You know, 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.840 we said, in your words, create a cultural shift around 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.840 voting in civic engagement. What does that mean, because some 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.080 would say in terms of civics, we need to actually educate. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.519 A fair amount of people about kind of how government works. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:29.360 But talk to us a. 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.079 Little bit about media literacy, Like, yeah. 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.120 Right, that's exactly what we talked about with David Weston. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:37.600 Tell us exactly what you guys are doing. 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.320 Yeah, thanks so much for having me and for the opportunity. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.160 You know, for us that I am a voter, We 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.959 really wanted to make sure that we were building an 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.440 organization that was going to be culturally relevant. We know 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.800 that millennials and Gen Z will be the majority of 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.920 potential voters in twenty twenty eight, and we know how 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.800 much time we're all spending on our phones and on 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.320 social media. That we wanted to make sure that we 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.600 were building a voting organization that was going to meet 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.840 our new voters where they're going to be and where 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:11.840 they're going to be at and how do we find 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.080 a way to really leverage some of the biggest cultural phenomenons, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.560 Whether it's Taylor Swift or sports teams and digital influencers 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.880 also getting them engaged so that way when there is 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.840 a presidential election or any election, we have all the 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:31.200 tools and resources at the ready. And so that was 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.400 really the genesis behind I am a voter, and I'm 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:35.320 really excited to tell you more about some of the 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.480 great partnerships we've been having and some of our impact. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:40.400 I definitely want to hear about some of those. I 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.040 want to start with impact, though, and just get an 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.400 understanding of the baseline here and sort of where you're 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.960 starting to what extent do we understand how millennials show 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.720 up to vote in presidential elections? And I know we 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.800 have less data on gen Z, but how have they 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:54.360 shown up? 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.880 Yeah? I think it's that really is the key question. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.400 And I will say I think that sometimes millennials and 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.240 gen Z get a bad rap, but they're really actually 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:07.160 so active. 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:08.720 They're just showing up in. 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:13.640 Different ways than generations before them. We know that for 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.000 this election cycle and many moving forward, youth vote will 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.520 be the key vote, which is why so many campaigns 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.040 are trying to figure out how they can really get 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:24.200 in front of them and break. 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:24.640 Through the noise. 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.680 I'll just share a quick stat which I find is 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.840 really phenomenal is millennials are spending one hundred and fifty 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.839 seven minutes to day on social media and gen Z 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.760 is one hundred and eighty minutes. And when you look 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.320 at when you look at traditional campaigns, most of those 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:46.520 campaigns are still buying ads on television, which is important, 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.200 but we have to recognize that there needs to be 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:53.440 a shift to things like digital first platforms and then 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.640 finding a way to really break through all of the 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.400 noise that's out there, which is why the work that. 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:01.080 We're doing, we're a little horrified buy these numbers here. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.880 I feel like the you know, Sunday morning, you wake 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.560 up in a few hours after you wake up, you 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.599 get that notification from that shows your screen. 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:10.400 Where's the day did I do with the math? 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:10.719 Right? 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:13.720 They're ticking and they're talking. I guess, Carol, is what 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:15.320 the kids say, right, Elizabeth? 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.760 I know what was When I first read that, I 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.600 thought it was is that one hundred and fifty seven 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:21.800 minutes a week? And I had to read it a 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:22.880 couple of times. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:24.920 So no offense, but it makes me say, Okay, we've 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.240 got a much more serious problem at hand. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.080 That's for a different conversation. 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.720 So okay, but obviously you take that information and you've 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.039 got to think about how do you reach those voters. 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.640 I mean, is it as simple as just people under 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.960 is it? Are they not registered? Do they not care? 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:43.280 Like? 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.200 What is it that moves the needle in terms of 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.120 this group, because I think for a long time it 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.320 was like they're candidates I just can't even. 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:55.480 Relate to, Right, There's definitely there's definitely a little bit 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.800 of that. I think there's a lot of young people 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.599 that don't necessarily see themselves reflect in the process and 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:06.480 sort of what they've been hearing and seeing from the campaigns. 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.599 You know, nearly nearly one in five young people have 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.760 not yet been contacted by a campaign, So that just 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.960 we just look at that as opportunity. Whereas you know, 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:21.920 campaigns are also limited by capacity and funds and time, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:26.840 there's a great opportunity for non partisan organizations, grassroots efforts 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.640 like I Am a Voter to reach the other four 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.120 out of five young people and to really get them 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.320 not only educated, but involved in the process. So whether 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.039 that's getting them to register to vote or showing up 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:44.960 at a local town hall, or maybe even themselves, inspiring them, 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.599 inspiring them, and maybe they're a future elected candidate in 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.080 their in their local towns or local cities where they 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.680 sign up to be a pool worker. But we know 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.359 that the very first step is to get them interested in, 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.400 to get them involved. So what we really try and 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.360 do is we want to just push out the facts. 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.599 We're not trying to sway them one way or the other, 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.000 because we know that they can figure that out for 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.080 themselves if they have all the right information. 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:12.080 But don't you feel like that's what go ahead? 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:13.760 Well, I was just going to say, I'm looking at 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.760 the Pew Research Center, given that they have some good 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.200 data on the US House and how the Senate is 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.960 looking the meeting age of voting House lawmakers. This is 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.480 in the current term fifty seven point nine years, so 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:35.240 fifty eight and then the Senate is even older. Pulling 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:40.080 that the meeting age is about sixty five point three, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.280 So there's room for those younger candidates to get in there, right. 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:45.320 You can understand. 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:53.080 So based on what you are doing and what you're seeing, 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.560 I mean, did the candidates last night, do you think 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.200 they reached a younger voter? 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.640 You know, I think I think We'll have to wait 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.520 and see. I think that I think all campaigns are 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.239 trying really hard to make sure that they are being heard. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.800 The majority of young people probably didn't watch the debates 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.240 last night, and that's just not last you know, that's 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.520 not about this election cycle. For most presidential debates, the 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.040 average viewer is not of Gen Z or millennial age. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.040 And I think what most folks are probably seeing today, 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.200 or young people are seeing today, is what is the 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.560 after effect of that, and what are the short snippets 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.240 that they're seeing on social and what are their friends posting, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.920 Which is why relational organizing is so important, because most 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.480 folks are going to be hearing about the election from 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.840 not just traditional news, but actually probably their neighbor or 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:51.319 somebody that they follow on social. 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.960 Yeah. I mean that's that's what's so amazing is sometimes 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.240 people send me like screenshots from Instagram with news. 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.760 Well, and you know, I was thinking that it was 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:00.600 sound like. 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:02.720 Sound like I'm so out of it, But but I 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:03.360 was also. 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.199 Thinking like, I don't know, I think you watched all 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:07.240 of it, most of. 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.959 It, Yeah, the debate, Yeah, yeah, I watched. 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:10.040 All of it. 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.400 And I know this is our job, but it's interesting, 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:13.559 how many? But like, yeah, I know, I just I 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.840 wait until everybody snips it and like I just read 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:16.199 the clip. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:17.880 Well, you can also kind of follow real time on 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.640 Twitter slash acts and see what kind of is resonating 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.880 with people, like with Mitt Romney's you know, Binders full 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.840 of Women comment from twenty twelve, right, right, but that 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:26.360 was huge. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.880 Sometimes you watch all of it to get a better 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.040 feel of I don't know, it's just interesting, like when we're. 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.480 Just yeah, that's a good point. News snippets versus the 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:34.880 whole thing. 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.400 Yeah, are the high points, Natalie, Interesting stuff. 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.079 Natalie Trent, co founder viam a voter joining us from 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.040 LA This is Bloopberg BusinessWeek. 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.960 Well, our next guest has thirty years of experience at 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:52.120 McKinsey and Company, focusing on projects related to organizational change 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:56.560 in companies that range from high tech to banking, healthcare, industrial, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.920 and more. He's a senior partner in McKenzie and senior 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.160 partner at mckenzen Company codean of the CEO leadership program 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.880 the Bower Forum. He's also got a brand new book out. 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:11.319 It's called The Journey of Leadership, How CEOs Learned to 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:16.280 Lead from the inside out rameshing of Austin. Welcome to 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:17.680 Bloomberg Business Week. How are you. 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:20.400 I'm good, Thank you for having me. 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.960 It's good to have you with us. My first question 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.560 is very basic. There's four co authors on this book. 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:28.360 How do you write a book with three other people? 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:31.920 It's actually a fantastic experience. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.559 I've learned a lot from my co authors, Dana, ham, 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.760 Swanna and Kirk and you know, obviously some of us 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.000 took the lead on different chapters, but bringing the different 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.520 perspectives together was a fantastic learning experiences. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:50.520 All right, So which chapters did you write? 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:51.920 So? 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.960 I wrote the chapter on humility, that's one of our 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.880 first chapters. I wrote the chapter on vulnerability. I wrote 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.440 the chapter on control. There's an illusion. Happy to talk 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:06.000 about that. But I'm also as codean of the Power Forum. 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.320 I've been in the journey of many many CEOs have 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.120 gone through the program. More than five hundred CEOs have 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.080 gone through it. So I have a good view of 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:15.960 all the chapters. 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.920 How many leaders come to you, guys, and they're not 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.440 great leaders to begin like. 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.200 By the time you become a leader in that sense, 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.880 and you're like a leader enough to hire McKinsey. You've 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:27.320 obviously done somethings right. 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.000 You have done somethings right, and I think you've got 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.199 a good achievement orientation. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.920 You've accomplished something, but yet you want to learn. 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.920 So people come to the Bower Forum, people come to 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.559 our leadership programs because they at least have that initial 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.120 sense of wanting to learn. 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:47.040 So there is some self selection in that process. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.320 Okay, So talk a little bit about just the experience 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:56.200 of sort of understanding how what makes a leader successful. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.200 Oftentimes we talk to CEOs of companies, especially honestly, especially 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.200 this time of year because it's like book season. Yeah, 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.480 so we're talking to like we spoke to Anchow yesterday, 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.640 former CEO of AT and T business. Like these these 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.560 CEOs they spent three decades at a company with Andrew 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:13.920 Liveris earlier this week from he spent years at DOW. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.160 He was at doll for more than thirty years. He 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.720 wrote a book about leadership as well. Oftentimes, you know, 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.600 the folks who are writing books about leadership are the 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:25.000 ones who are are retired from leading these companies, not 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.000 necessarily day to day working with other CEOs. So talk 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:30.559 a little bit about bringing that perspective. 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.319 Yeah, you know, we have stories of both CEOs have 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.880 retired and we have stories of CEOs are still active. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.520 And I think what we found is, and this is 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.400 the concept of inside out leadership that we've described in 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:44.760 the book. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.880 Successful leaders, especially in a world that is changing so fast. 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:54.120 With complex geopolitics and technology disruptions, they think a lot. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.559 About who they are, what is their purpose. 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:01.160 And use that to inspire their teams, inspire organizations. So 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.040 our big learning was the model of the imperial CEO 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.800 no longer exists. And these leaders, and Androw is a 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.400 great example, think a lot more about their purpose and 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:16.079 use that to consciously inspire their teams and their institutions 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:16.640 they're leading. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.800 What about inspiring just by paying really good wages and 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.959 giving benefits and making you know, I just think about 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.520 for workers. You know, it's interesting coming off the debate, right, 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.480 It's like the economy, the economy, the economy, and even 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.680 though wages have gone up, there are workers out there 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.640 who don't feel like they are participating, especially when it 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.479 comes to publicly held companies in the fortunes of those companies. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.360 So what about something as simple as that. I understand 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.520 they're like kind of raw raw, you know, inspiring your team, 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.320 but it's hard. I think for some folks who say, okay, great, 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:55.080 I've got to inspiring leader, but I'm having trouble because 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:56.680 my wages haven't gone up as much. 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.720 You're absolutely right. I think these leaders think about. 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.160 Stakeholders and have to think about all stakeholders, their employees, 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.079 their team, society, more broadly, their customers. I'll give you 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.839 an example of Frank Desuza, who was, you know, one 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.040 of the co founders of Cognizant, you know, Indian It 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.240 and BPO company, taught a lot about even if a 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.320 frontline software programmer reached out to him, he would always, 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.000 you know, connect with them, respond to them. And so 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.920 in many of these sectors, especially the knowledge economy, thinking 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.080 about all employees is quite critical. 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:31.400 So completely agree with you. 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.920 Even in the manufacturing I'm with you. I think the 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.960 successful companies are thinking about creating value, you know, not 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.000 just for shareholders, but for employees as well. I see 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.440 this even in private equity companies are thinking much more 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:49.560 about broader participation in creating value. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.920 How do they justify that from a cost perspective. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.600 I think all our research at McKinsey shows that deeper 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:02.280 engagement investing in employees taking care of them, benefits well being. 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:07.400 That absolutely leads that deeper engagement leads to better productivity, 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.040 better performance, better financial returns. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.720 There's a lot of research that confirms. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.720 That you do talk to CEOs, and you mentioned the 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.760 head of Cognizance, but I'm just curious talk to us 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.320 about some of the CEOs that you did talk to 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.960 for the book and what you wanted to get from them, 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:25.080 and include. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.480 Yeah, Frank is actually in the book, but beyond Frank, 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:30.320 you know a couple of other CEOs. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.760 Tefan Bansal of Moderna. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.720 You know, when he wanted to you know, he had 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.680 the aspiration of developing the vaccine. They'd never manufactured a 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:43.280 vaccine before, so he told his head of manufacturing, tell. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.040 Me what support you need to make a billion. 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.840 Those are the vaccines and and you know, the head 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.600 of manufacturing almost fell off the chair. But they also 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.000 realized that, you know, Stefan normally sped an aggressive ambition, 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.280 but was there to support them, roll off his sleeves, 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.480 talk problem with them. Another is Wendy Copp of Teach 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.400 for America and Teach for All. You know, when she 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.440 took teach for America, so now in sixty countries. She 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.200 realized the value of the importance of understanding the context, 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:19.200 understanding the entrepreneurs, social entrepreneurs in these geographies, and has 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.040 come up with this model of collaborative leadership where the 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:24.560 fundamental idea. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.040 Of education equity is the same. 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.160 But she's had to tailor the model and inspire these 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.360 leaders to have the kind of impact in these sixty 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.800 countries that she never thought was possible fifteen twenty years ago. 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.840 A lot of your own work has focused on organizational change. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.720 As I mentioned in the introduction, this is just another 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:49.120 way to describe how companies organize themselves from a human 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:53.120 capital perspective. And I'm wondering over your three decade career 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.600 at McKinsey, what the biggest shift in how organizations have 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.880 realized how they can be more efficient. What is that shift? 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:00.200 Then? 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.960 I think the biggest shift is the notion of purpose. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.960 So we often talk about people purpose performance. I think 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.000 these institutions have realized that they need to figure out 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.119 what is their purpose and how do they help the 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.080 people in the organization reflect on what gives them meaning, 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:24.000 whether it be their own development, their teams, their bosses. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.679 The communities around them, and how do they tie that 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:29.960 purpose back to the individual. 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.200 That's when they can unleash the most from the people 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.080 and deliver sustainable performance. Again, moderna is a great example, 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.160 and in healthcare. It's probably easier when you're doing work 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.520 in life sciences or healthcare, but helping people see the 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.440 value of what they're doing can then unleash their fullest potential. 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.280 I thought it was interesting there was a chapter, chapter ten, 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.720 everyone keeps things from the Boss, and it talks about 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.800 as somebody becomes the CEO, they really no longer have 0:17:57.960 --> 0:17:59.680 peers who might. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.880 You know, inform them, keep. 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.320 Them, say to them, say no to them, or I 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.240 know a lot of instances of that that I've seen 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:09.400 play out over the last few years. It's so free. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.760 Why is this nobody's saying no around this guy? 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.640 You can tell right, or say that's a great idea. 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:15.879 That's a great idea of boss. 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.159 So you know, you get in this vacuum, and you know, 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.920 I think there's a lot of either founder led companies 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.760 or founder created companies that ultimately get into a problem 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.920 where nobody wants to tell them don't do anything. 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.560 Yeah, don't tweet that exactly. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.240 No, I just think about you know, here we're go 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.680 looking at companies like Starbucks and Chapotle went through period, 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.640 you know, like these companies so identified with their founders 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.440 for a long time and went through some tough times. 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.640 I don't know, what do you what do you tell 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:48.640 the leaders to make sure they don't get in that predicament? 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:50.320 How do they not get in that predicament? 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:53.560 You're absolutely And by the way, this is issue is 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.600 not just in founder led companies. It's actually many companies 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.520 and not just the CEO. Even as you're getting more 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:03.520 senior people will start holding back and don't share the 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.040 truth with folks. So I think we had the story 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.960 in that chapter about the media company CEO who surrounded 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.720 himself with truth tellers, and these truth tellers were people 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.840 at all levels. He selected people who were not afraid 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.920 of speaking the truth, but also created an environment where 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.359 he set that expectation with them so that they would 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.480 come and tell him what was really happening, what customers 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.560 were telling them, how they were feeling, how their peers 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:31.080 were feeling. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.080 And he used that knowledge to. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:38.480 Set the strategy, inspire people, and direct his own team. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.840 Hey, how has the organizational structure at Mackenzy changed in 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:44.359 your career. 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.720 I think McKinsey, our mission and values have stayed the 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.760 same in these thirty years. Obviously, the scope of work 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.520 we do, the geographies we are in that has expanded 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.159 quite a bit in response to our clients are asking 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.280 and you know, we're we are in a waiting we're experimenting. 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:10.240 We've invested a lot in technology, and then we remembered 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.200 that purpose into what we do. That's become much more 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.919 important for us now. So those are some of the 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.400 shifts that I've seen in these studies. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.040 Listen, we want to get back to our guest thirty 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:24.080 years at mackenzie and Company. Senior partner at mackenzie Codine 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.119 of the CEO Leadership program the Bauer Forum. 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:28.600 He's the co author of a new book. 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.919