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Speaker 1: The Action Network podcast, named vest vetting Podcast or radio

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Speaker 1: show by the Fantasy Sports and Gaming Association and the

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Speaker 1: number one show for the invested sports fan.

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Speaker 2: All Right, here we go.

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Speaker 3: We're growing in job spectacular.

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Speaker 4: I'm sitting it to cash.

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Speaker 5: We'll see most gamblers when they go to gamble, they

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Speaker 5: go to wind.

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Speaker 2: That's incredible.

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Speaker 6: Big bank, small banks.

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Speaker 2: I like to make money. All right, this is the

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Speaker 2: ultimate combine you want to.

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Speaker 3: And we are underway.

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Speaker 4: Hello, everyone, Welcome back to another NFL episode of the

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Speaker 4: Action Network podcast. I'm Matthew Friedman, the editor in chief

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Speaker 4: of Fantasy Labs. With me are Sean Corner and Chris Raymond.

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Speaker 4: Shawn is the Action Network Director of Predictive Analytics. Chris

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Speaker 4: is a senior editor and analyst at the Action Network

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Speaker 4: and they are two of the best fantasy football ranks

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Speaker 4: in the business. And joining us is a guy known

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Speaker 4: for his rise and grind ethos, his high tea facade,

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Speaker 4: his fantastically mensa level kicker takes his propensity to own

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Speaker 4: the lives and the ease with which he lives the

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Speaker 4: American stream. I'm talking about Denny Carter, a fantasy football

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Speaker 4: writer at Rotal World. Denny, thanks for joining us. How

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Speaker 4: you doing.

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Speaker 6: I'm doing well. My reputation precedes me. That's the best

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Speaker 6: intro I've ever had in my life.

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Speaker 4: That's what I was shooting for. So glad that I

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Speaker 4: met my own expectations and exceeded everyone else's expectations. All right,

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Speaker 4: it is great to have you back on the pod.

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Speaker 4: We've recently had Evan Silva and Ian Hardest on the

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Speaker 4: show to talk about fantasy quarterbacks. In this episode, we

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Speaker 4: were talking with Denny about his approach to the tight

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Speaker 4: end position, and we're breaking down the position in detail.

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Speaker 4: If you like what you hear, give us that five

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Speaker 4: star rating, leave a review. We would appreciate it. Gentlemen,

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Speaker 4: let's get into it. Denny, I am assuming that you

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Speaker 4: are living the stream when it comes to the tight

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Speaker 4: end position. But give me your general approach to the

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Speaker 4: position this year.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I have given in a little bit

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Speaker 6: to tight end premium strategy, you know, like Scott fish

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Speaker 6: Bowl recently took George Kittle in the what is it

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Speaker 6: the end of the first round, I believe, and I

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Speaker 6: have sort of given into that, gotten a little soft

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Speaker 6: on that front. But in standard fantasy leagues where the

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Speaker 6: tight end position is not artificially inflated, which I don't

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Speaker 6: I don't really love I end up with some of

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Speaker 6: the guys in you know, sixth, seventh, eighth round. But

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Speaker 6: if I don't get a certain few players in that area,

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Speaker 6: then I just fade the position completely and wait until

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Speaker 6: you know, the very end of of drafts. So you know,

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Speaker 6: when I when I talk about the middle rounds, that

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Speaker 6: the guys that I usually end up with Gronk in

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Speaker 6: the seventh, hayden Hurst in the seventh of the eighth.

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Speaker 6: Those are the two guys that I get in the

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Speaker 6: middle rounds mostly, and then you get you know, much

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Speaker 6: later and we're talking about a new cropper players. Not

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Speaker 6: sure if you want to get into that right right

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Speaker 6: this second, but that's that's my my approach right now

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Speaker 6: is if I can't get those guys in the middle rounds,

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Speaker 6: I don't sweat it and I just wait pretty much

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Speaker 6: till the end.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well, thinking about some of those guys later,

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Speaker 4: who is the one tight end you've gotten the most

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Speaker 4: of so far in your drafts.

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Speaker 6: I have a frightening amount of Blake Jarwin. I know,

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Speaker 6: I'm you know, not the only one. I mean it

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Speaker 6: feels like everybody in the industry is super bullish on Jarwin.

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Speaker 6: But I think that there is a lot of reason

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Speaker 6: to be bullish on him this season and going forward.

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Speaker 6: I know we're talking about a new offense with Mike

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Speaker 6: McCarthy and everything, but you look at how Dak Prescott

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Speaker 6: has targeted the tight end position, and you have to

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Speaker 6: look at the statue of Jason Witten over the past

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Speaker 6: three of the past four seasons with Prescott under center

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Speaker 6: in Dallas. You know, I did a piece for four

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Speaker 6: for four dot com on Dak's history with tight ends,

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Speaker 6: and you have Witten, you know, getting a almost a

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Speaker 6: twenty percent share a target share in twenty sixteen, that

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Speaker 6: was eighteen percent in twenty seventeen and fourteen and a

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Speaker 6: half percent in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 2: And I.

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Speaker 6: Think that that is, you know, a little bit of

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Speaker 6: a tip off that Jarwin could have some built in

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Speaker 6: volume that really isn't factored into his ADP right now.

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Speaker 6: I mean his ADP on Fantasy Football Calculator, for instance,

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Speaker 6: is still in the thirteenth round, late thirteenth. You know,

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Speaker 6: in leagues that I've drafted in so far, best ball

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Speaker 6: and whatnot, you're not getting him in the thirteenth. You'd

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Speaker 6: have to go in on him at a tenth to

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Speaker 6: eleventh round. But I'm still fine, you know with that

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Speaker 6: if that's if that's the case, yeah, jarwin for me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that makes sense. He has eight point

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Speaker 4: seven yards per target for his career. It's a really

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Speaker 4: high number. And now he's elevated to the number one

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Speaker 4: position there, so you can definitely see it. How about

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Speaker 4: who's the one tight end you are most looking to

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Speaker 4: stay away from.

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Speaker 6: I'm not interested and this is very against my longtime

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Speaker 6: brand in fantasy Inustrgama, I'm very much reticent drafting Jared Cook.

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Speaker 6: You know last year's touchdown rate, Emmanuel Sanders being thrown

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Speaker 6: into the mix in New Orleans. He wasn't really running

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Speaker 6: a ton of routes last year, and you know made

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Speaker 6: the most of it because you know, he ended up

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Speaker 6: with he ended up being a solid fantasy asset. I'm

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Speaker 6: not arguing that, but for his price point right now,

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Speaker 6: which is in the late ninth or early tenth round

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Speaker 6: around where you know Hunter, Henry Henry or Cook basically

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Speaker 6: is what it comes down to. In a lot of

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Speaker 6: my drafts, you know, you end up looking at those

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Speaker 6: two and I like Henry because I think that he'll

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Speaker 6: be a priority in his offense and the Chargers offense

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Speaker 6: where that I think Cook is just really like a

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Speaker 6: third or fourth option right now.

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Speaker 4: Well, you mentioned there one of the reasons to fade

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Speaker 4: Cook would be some regression in his touchdown rate. What

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Speaker 4: are the stats and factors that you are looking at

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Speaker 4: to predict tight end performance this year?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, touchdown rate is definitely one. Also, you know, if

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Speaker 6: a guy produced the previous season while running you know,

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Speaker 6: not many pass routes, I think that that can be

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Speaker 6: and really should be a red flag. That's something that

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Speaker 6: on Living the Stream, JJ and I talk a lot

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Speaker 6: about tight end route running because I know, I know

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Speaker 6: it sounds, you know, very basic, but you got to

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Speaker 6: run routes if you're going to produce fantasy points. And

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Speaker 6: if a tight end has a solid snap percentage but

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Speaker 6: is not running all that many routes, then you know,

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Speaker 6: his opportunity is you know, just a fraction of what

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Speaker 6: it could be, So that that's definitely one that jumps out,

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Speaker 6: And you know, that's that's why, like I said, I

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Speaker 6: like Jarwin, That's why I like Chris Herndon for the

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Speaker 6: Jets because in his rookie season when he became a

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Speaker 6: part of that offense, you know, became a not the

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Speaker 6: central part, but a part of the of the passing game.

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Speaker 6: There he began to run a good amount of routes,

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Speaker 6: and a good amount of routes for a tight end

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Speaker 6: is you know, twenty three, twenty five, twenty seven somewhere

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Speaker 6: in there. You know, it always depends on what kind

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Speaker 6: of team you're talking about, too. You know, on a

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Speaker 6: really run heavy team, twenty five routes a game for

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Speaker 6: a tight end is solid. For a pass happy team

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Speaker 6: not as much.

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Speaker 4: All right, let's get into some of these players in

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Speaker 4: detail and start with the guys at the top. In

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Speaker 4: most leagues, you have Travis Kelsey going off the board

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Speaker 4: as the number one tight end, but George Kittle normally

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Speaker 4: follows pretty quickly thereafter. You know, the case for either

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Speaker 4: one of those guys is pretty strong. You know, Kelsey

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Speaker 4: has been the fantasy tight end one in three of

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Speaker 4: the past four years. And then of course you have Kittle,

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Speaker 4: who I think might be the best all around tight

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Speaker 4: end in the league at this point, and he has

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Speaker 4: back to backyards, back to back seasons of a thousand

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Speaker 4: yards receiving, so a lot to like about either one

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Speaker 4: of those guys. Where are you, Denny on those two guys?

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Speaker 4: Do you mind taking them early? And which one do

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Speaker 4: you think should be the first tigh end off the board?

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Speaker 6: I think, just because of the nature of the Kansas

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Speaker 6: City offense, I think it needs to be Kelsey and

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Speaker 6: I know Kittle right now, according to ADP, is going

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Speaker 6: off the board on only five picks after Kelsey, so

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Speaker 6: it's not a huge gap by any means. And you

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Speaker 6: actually do have a huge gap between Kelsey Kittle and

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Speaker 6: then Mark Andrews, who's going in the fourth round. I

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Speaker 6: would prefer Kelsey there because you have my homes, because

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Speaker 6: you have a pass heavy Chiefs offense unless something drastic changes.

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Speaker 6: And really, you know, the forty nine Ers, for as

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Speaker 6: good as Kittle has been, the forty nine Ers want

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Speaker 6: to be and made that clear last year. They want

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Speaker 6: to be a run first, run, always very conservative kind

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Speaker 6: of offense and that you know, if that works that

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Speaker 6: worked for them last year probably will work for them

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Speaker 6: this year. You know, whether they can keep that up,

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Speaker 6: whether they can maintain the kind of game script that

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Speaker 6: is conducive. It's keeping the ball on the ground. You know,

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Speaker 6: I guess that's for the average fantasy drafter to decide.

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Speaker 6: But because of that, I do think Kelsey is rightfully

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Speaker 6: being drafted ahead of Kittle.

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Speaker 4: Sean, where are you on Kelsey versus Kittle?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with Denny.

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Speaker 7: Where you know, I'm taking Kelsey before Kittle simply because

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Speaker 7: I'm trying to invest in this Chiefs offense. I mean,

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Speaker 7: we've talked about how scary the ceiling for this entire

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Speaker 7: offense is, so betting on Kelsey is the way to go.

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Speaker 7: But you know, Kittle goes several picks after, so I

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Speaker 7: think in terms of value, getting Kittle as the number

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Speaker 7: two tight end is probably a little bit more valuable.

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Speaker 7: We talked about on the NFC Player Projections Pod. How

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Speaker 7: you know, Kittle's touchdown percentage has been pretty low the

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Speaker 7: past two seasons at five point six percent, so he's

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Speaker 7: only scored five touchdowns each of the.

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Speaker 2: Last two seasons.

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Speaker 7: I don't think in this offense we should be expecting

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Speaker 7: double digit touchdowns, but I think somewhere between six and

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Speaker 7: eight touchdowns this year is more than reasonable. So we've

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Speaker 7: really yet to see his ceiling. So that's where I

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Speaker 7: would make the case if you take Kittle as the

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Speaker 7: second tight en off of the board, you're probably getting

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Speaker 7: more value in my opinion, just because his ceiling has

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Speaker 7: been unrealized so far.

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, I'm living that George Kittle life and like

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Speaker 4: the renegade that I am, I have him ranked number one. Raybond,

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Speaker 4: where are you on Kelsey versus Kittle?

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Speaker 5: I agree with with Sewn and Denny that because of

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Speaker 5: the nature of the Chiefs offense and the quarterback throwing

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Speaker 5: to him and the volume of that offense, that Kelsey

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Speaker 5: should be ranked number one.

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Speaker 3: But I love the upside of Kittle two.

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Speaker 5: I think Kelsey, Kittle, and Mark Andrews are guys that

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Speaker 5: I'm willing to spend an early round pick on. All

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Speaker 5: of them have tremendous upside, and speaking particularly to Kittle,

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Speaker 5: there is a huge ceiling. Like George Kittle's ceiling is

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Speaker 5: fully being worth a you know, mid first round pick

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Speaker 5: because his receptions per game last year, even amid the

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Speaker 5: run heavy offense, rose from five point five to six

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Speaker 5: point one per game. However, his yards per catch dropped

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Speaker 5: from fifteen point six and twenty eighteen to just twelve

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Speaker 5: point four last year.

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Speaker 3: So we know he has that big playability.

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Speaker 5: He broke a number of big plays in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 5: so that could come back or at least settle a

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Speaker 5: little more in the middle of fifteen and a half

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Speaker 5: and twelve and a half. He led all tight ends

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Speaker 5: in twenty nineteen in yards per route run, which is

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Speaker 5: an extremely sticky metric from one year to the next,

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Speaker 5: but he was only nineteenth in routes per game at

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Speaker 5: twenty four point one, which goes back to what Denny

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Speaker 5: was talking about. So there's just this major room for

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Speaker 5: growth in a guy who's already a top two, top

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Speaker 5: three tight end. And to me, I do agree with

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Speaker 5: Sean that I think the better value in terms of

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Speaker 5: where they're going relative to ADP is George Kittle. But

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Speaker 5: in terms of raw points, I still favored Kelsey slightly.

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Speaker 5: Although he is going into his age thirty one season.

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Speaker 5: That's a little bit of a red flag. Going back

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Speaker 5: over the last thirty years or so, tight ends have

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Speaker 5: seen a ten to fifteen percent drop in their per

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Speaker 5: game production relative to their career norms in their age

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Speaker 5: thirty one season, so it starts the decline phase right

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Speaker 5: around now. But Patrick Mahomes is going to mitigate that,

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Speaker 5: So I'm fine with either of them.

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Speaker 4: Just shooting from the hip. Sean. Let's say that Denny,

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Speaker 4: with his new job at roade a world broke. Some

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Speaker 4: news wrote a blurb saying that Travis Kelce and George

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Speaker 4: Kittle have both signed with the WWE. They are going

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Speaker 4: to face each other in the ring. What would you

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Speaker 4: set as the odds and then Denny? After Sean sets

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Speaker 4: the odds, I want you to say which side you

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Speaker 4: would take.

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Speaker 7: Man, that's a tough one. Kelsey is pretty psycho, but

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Speaker 7: I would set Kittle. I mean, he's in his prime.

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Speaker 7: I would set him as a favorite at minus one

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Speaker 7: fifty to plus one thirty. And it is an important

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Speaker 7: point to make in terms of fantasy. He played through

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Speaker 7: that broken bone in his ankle and I think it

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Speaker 7: was week six before missing a couple of games. So

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Speaker 7: having that kind of mentality is especially when you're investing,

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Speaker 7: you know, high draft capitol and tight end. Having a

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Speaker 7: guy that can cut out and injury like that is

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Speaker 7: huge in my opinion. So I think that's why I

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Speaker 7: kind of give him the edge in some sort of

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Speaker 7: rustling matchress.

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Speaker 6: I have always thought that George Kittle was an absolute lunatic.

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Speaker 6: So I'm hammering a Kittle. I love him in that

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Speaker 6: matchup because he is so out of his mind when

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Speaker 6: he's in competition.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Kittle is the only person I would probably have

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Speaker 4: favored over Kelsey, but I still would hammer Kittle.

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Speaker 3: You gotta go Kiddle man.

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Speaker 5: He's just he's a dude. He's just a psycho like Kelsey.

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Speaker 5: He's an athletic specimen.

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Speaker 3: He's a wild dude.

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Speaker 5: He he'll probably take some cheap shots, but he's also

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Speaker 5: a little bit of a pretty boy, kiddling about that.

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Speaker 3: You know, Kelsey too pretty.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes Kiddle like, he'll block, he'll catch any he'll beat

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Speaker 5: your ass.

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Speaker 7: There was a soft line after early action. It's at

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Speaker 7: least all right.

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Speaker 4: Let's uh, let's talk about the guys going outside or

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Speaker 4: right after the top two. So you have this tier

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Speaker 4: of Kelsey and Kittle, and then I think right after

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Speaker 4: them you have Mark Andrews and zach Ertz and they're

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Speaker 4: going around around and a half two rounds later. But

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Speaker 4: I think they provide an interesting arbitrage opportunity, and that

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Speaker 4: both Mark Andrews and zach Ertz you can clearly see

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Speaker 4: a path to how either one of these guys would

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Speaker 4: finish in the top two. You know, Mark Andrews is

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Speaker 4: an ascending tight end. He has a top three mark

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Speaker 4: of nine point five yards per target over the past

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Speaker 4: two years, fully expecting that he's going to be used

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Speaker 4: even more within that Baltimore offense this year. And Then

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Speaker 4: Zach Ertz has been a top four Fantasy tight end

297
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Speaker 4: in each of the past three years. But of course

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Speaker 4: there's the question with him he could see fewer targets

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Speaker 4: than he saw the past two seasons. Denny, where are

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Speaker 4: you on Andrews and Ertz?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean you have to choose between them, because

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Speaker 6: they're going pretty close in ADP Andrews in the fourth

304
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Speaker 6: and then are it's in the top of the fifth.

305
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Speaker 6: I mean, if you're if you want volume, if if

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Speaker 6: you value volume over everything, and then I think that

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Speaker 6: you need to go Ertz unless you project the Baltimore

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Speaker 6: offense to regress to a more normalized rate of running

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Speaker 6: the football this year. You know, they ran the ball

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Speaker 6: on fifty four percent of their offensive snaps last season,

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Speaker 6: the highest in the league by far. So Andrews, I

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Speaker 6: feel like you're going to have to bank on that

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Speaker 6: efficiency being maintained and we all know how that goes

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Speaker 6: sometimes when you when you say, hey man, this guy

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Speaker 6: was efficient last year. Let's just roll with him. You know,

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Speaker 6: he's an efficient guy, and you know that's that's something

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Speaker 6: that often doesn't hold up, especially when you're talking about

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Speaker 6: a position like tight end where the player is just

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Speaker 6: not going to be going to see the kind of

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Speaker 6: volume that a wide receiver would see. You know, Andrews

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Speaker 6: is the far sexier pick than ERT's. You know, Rich

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Speaker 6: Reebar has called Ertz the soup diver version of Jason Whitten,

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Speaker 6: you know, for years, and it's true, but you know,

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Speaker 6: you or it's just kind of stumbles into one hundred

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Speaker 6: and thirty targets. You know, you're not going to be

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Speaker 6: able to say the same about Andrews. If I'm going

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Speaker 6: in on the tight end at that point in the draft,

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Speaker 6: I guess it would be Andrews.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm with you, I'm you know, a very

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Speaker 4: staunch Andrews truther. I am at the point where I

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Speaker 4: don't want to say that I would take him as

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Speaker 4: the number two tight end, but I don't know. I

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Speaker 4: like him a lot, and I can see a path

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Speaker 4: to him finishing in the top two Sean, where are you?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm teen Andrews here all the way. I don't

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Speaker 7: think we can even expect him to come close to

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Speaker 7: his efficiency this year. He's certainly going to regress from

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Speaker 7: his fifteen and a half percent touchdown, right, that's most

339
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Speaker 7: certainly going down. But you know we're going to see

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Speaker 7: way more snaps played by him. Like you said, Denny,

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Speaker 7: snap's played or the way to go at tight end.

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Speaker 7: So you know, with hayden Hurst last year, Andrews was

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Speaker 7: frustratingly a fifty percent snaps for drop back kind of guy.

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Speaker 7: I think that that should absolutely shoot up to seventy

345
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Speaker 7: to eighty percent this year. Unless you think Charles Scarf

346
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Speaker 7: is going to replace hayden Hurst completely, which I'm not

347
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Speaker 7: betting on. Andrews can certainly offset this expected a Russian

348
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Speaker 7: efficiency with just more snaps played. So I think the

349
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Speaker 7: upsides there. I think is floor is way higher than

350
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Speaker 7: people think. I you know, definitely worth taking. Like Friedman said,

351
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Speaker 7: is arbitrage tight end. If you miss out on the

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Speaker 7: first two, you have Andrews who absolutely has top two potential.

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Speaker 7: And you know, I'm kind of fading Ertz because he's

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Speaker 7: always seen as this.

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Speaker 2: High floor player.

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Speaker 7: But I think you know, last year he managed to

357
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Speaker 7: see one hundred and thirty four targets, but a lot

358
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Speaker 7: of that was due to their wide receiver depth charts

359
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 7: as being decimated. You know, they brought in help. They're

360
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Speaker 7: a little bit deeper this year. So I'm not betting

361
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Speaker 7: on ERT's matching those numbers this year, especially with Das Godd.

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Speaker 7: You know, he's entering his prime and Ertz is sort

363
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Speaker 7: of leaving it, so to speak, entering his age thirty season.

364
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Speaker 7: So I'm off of Ertz here. If you're going to

365
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Speaker 7: be spending draft Keppel here, go with the upside and

366
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Speaker 7: take Andrews.

367
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Speaker 4: Raybon, I think you're probably in the same camp with

368
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Speaker 4: Andrews over Ertz. But give us your thought process here.

369
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Speaker 3: I mean, it shouldn't even be a question.

370
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Speaker 5: I think Mark Andrews could have the one of the

371
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Speaker 5: most ridiculous tight end seasons we've seen in a long

372
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Speaker 5: time if he plays as much as I think we

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Speaker 5: think he's going to play, because look at what he

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Speaker 5: did last season. He finished as the number two tight end,

375
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 5: and as Sean mentioned, he was only running around on

376
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 5: fifty to sixty percent of the team's dropbacks per game,

377
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Speaker 5: he was targeted on thirty three percent of his routes run.

378
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Speaker 3: And although I don't.

379
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Speaker 5: Necessarily expect that type of efficiency to continue, targets per

380
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,880
Speaker 5: route run is a pretty predictive metric pretty quickly.

381
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Speaker 3: So the fact that Andrews.

382
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Speaker 5: Could maintain that high of a target rate just signifies

383
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Speaker 5: how good he is and how SKILLEDY is at at

384
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Speaker 5: getting open and how much Lamar Jackson's going to look

385
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Speaker 5: for him. And then you also have to Andrews finishes

386
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Speaker 5: the number two tight end running half of the routes

387
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Speaker 5: on a team that threw the least in the entire

388
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Speaker 5: National Football League. The room for growth with simple regression

389
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Speaker 5: to the mean far far outweighs the opposite regression in

390
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 5: terms of his a potential efficiency declined, like the potential

391
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Speaker 5: for him to just explode in terms of usage and

392
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 5: play nearly every down, The potential for Baltimore to pass

393
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Speaker 5: the ball, you know, three to five more times per

394
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 5: game this year because Lamar Jackson, you know, is going

395
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Speaker 5: to be more comfortable. He flat out said he doesn't

396
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Speaker 5: want to run as much. He wants to develop as

397
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 5: a passer. And look at what he did last year,

398
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Speaker 5: going from year one year too, all of a sudden,

399
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Speaker 5: he leads the league in touchdown passes. Lamar could still

400
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,680
Speaker 5: be getting better as a thrower. This is his guy,

401
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 5: This is their number one target. I wouldn't be surprised

402
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 5: if we're sitting here at the end of the year

403
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 5: and Mark Andrews is like two three points per game

404
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 5: ahead of Kelsey and Kittle. Let's also not forget that

405
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 5: Mark Andrews played through an injury tag six different times

406
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Speaker 5: last year and still put those numbers all.

407
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Speaker 4: Right, So after these top four tight ends and all

408
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 4: of these guys have a pretty realistic chance of leading

409
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 4: their team and targets. After those guys, I think there's

410
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 4: something of a transitionary tier where you could look at

411
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 4: five tight ends and think that all of them, or

412
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 4: any one of those guys has a realistic chance of

413
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Speaker 4: finishing in the top four. But they might be kind

414
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 4: of a little bit closer in caliber to the guys

415
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Speaker 4: who follow them than the guys at the top of

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00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 4: the position. And so I'm looking at Darren Waller, Evan Ingram, Hunter,

417
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 4: Henry Rob Gronkowski, and Tyler Higbee. You know, all of

418
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 4: those guys, you can see how one of them could

419
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 4: finish in the top four. Denny, you talked about some

420
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Speaker 4: of these guys earlier and how you're getting, you know,

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Speaker 4: I think a decent amount of Gronk. I think you

422
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Speaker 4: mentioned you're getting a decent amount of Hunter. Henry. Where

423
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 4: are you in general on these five guys, and give

424
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Speaker 4: us your your thoughts on the Gronk.

425
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Speaker 6: I've seen him drop well passed his ADP in a

426
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 6: lot of drafts. I got him recently in like the

427
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 6: end of the eighth round. It felt like that was

428
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 6: a pretty good spot for him. You know, his his

429
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 6: ADP by the ways at the end of the sixth round,

430
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Speaker 6: so that that would be, you know, two rounds different.

431
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 6: In an offense with so many threats, you know, with Godwin,

432
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 6: with Evans also an offensive quarterback by the only guy

433
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 6: he's ever known, Brady, I think that we'll see a

434
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 6: lot of single coverage, a lot of you know, focus

435
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,199
Speaker 6: on those receivers, leaving Gronk in an enviable position to

436
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 6: exploit matchups. You know, if you trust Tom Brady to

437
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 6: be able to exploit matchups with his favorite pass catcher

438
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 6: of all time, I think it's a really good spot.

439
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,239
Speaker 6: It's a really good position. I don't foresee, you know,

440
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 6: Gronk catapulting the guys we just talked about, but he

441
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 6: wouldn't have to, you know, obviously, to be to prove

442
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 6: a value play. But that's why I just I just

443
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 6: keep kind of just taking them. You know, they're another

444
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 6: guy who checks a lot of boxes. You know, JJ

445
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 6: wrote a piece a couple of months ago on what

446
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 6: to look at for a breakout tight ends. I don't

447
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 6: have the list in front of me of the various

448
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 6: things factions you're looking at, but suffice it to say

449
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 6: that hayden Hurst checks all those boxes. I don't think

450
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 6: people are really clawing for him.

451
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 4: Right now, right corner, Where are you on these five guys?

452
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 4: Which guy stands out to you the most as the

453
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 4: one that you think within this range provides pretty good value.

454
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 7: I'll be pretty blunt and say none of them, this

455
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 7: entire tier I'm avoiding, just based on you know, we

456
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 7: talked about the top three tight ends. I think those

457
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 7: are the guys worth spending high draft capital on. After that,

458
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 7: I mean, we're going to talk about later. But the

459
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 7: upside tight end tier, like you know, ranks thirteen through twenty.

460
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 7: I mean I could take any one of those guys.

461
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 7: I think that's where the league winners had been coming

462
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 7: from the past couple of seasons.

463
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: So this tier kind of feels like you're.

464
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 7: Just trying to like scramble and take an because you

465
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 7: feel like you missed out. So, you know, Darren Waller,

466
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 7: I don't expect him to come close to his one

467
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 7: hundred and seventeen targets a year ago. They brought him

468
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 7: too many weapons. I could see him, you know, seeing

469
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 7: some positive aggression in his touchdown rate, which was three

470
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 7: point three percent last year. That's certainly going to go up.

471
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 7: I mean, he's six foot six, two thirty eight pounds.

472
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 7: He should be a force in the red zone. So

473
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 7: I think he'll offset some of the regressional scene targets

474
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 7: with some touchdowns this year. Evan Ingram, I mean, when

475
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 7: he's healthy, he's a top six tight end. And I

476
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 7: don't like overrating recent injury history, but I mean he's

477
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 7: missed thirteen of the past three or two games. Again,

478
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 7: you don't want to be spending high draft capitol on

479
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 7: a guy that seems to be injury prone. Hunter Henry,

480
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 7: I'm down on him. In this offense, there's just not

481
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 7: going to be enough yards to maintain Eckler, Keenan Allen,

482
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 7: Mike Williams, and Hunter Henry on a weekly basis, so

483
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 7: I'm passing on him. Gronk, you know, I love his

484
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 7: upside of this offense, but you know, I'm always a

485
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 7: bit worried about bruce Arians offenses when it comes to

486
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 7: tight ends. Certainly Brady and Gronk should change that. But

487
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 7: I mean, it's a guy that I'm not getting much

488
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 7: of this year.

489
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: And then Higbee.

490
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 7: I mean, if Higby picks up where he left off

491
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 7: last year, he's a top four tight end. But you know,

492
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 7: I just think more two tight tight end sets with

493
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 7: Gerald Everett this year as opposed to Johnny Munt will hurt.

494
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 2: You know, the bottom line, it comes to Higbee. So

495
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: he's the guy.

496
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 7: I'm probably fading as a seventh tight end, but he's

497
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 7: probably the guy if you want to invest in just upside,

498
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 7: maybe go with Higbee. But again, I think you might

499
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 7: as well just wait until the later rounds to take

500
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 7: some of these high upside tight ends that are pretty

501
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 7: much free this year.

502
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 4: All right, Well, Shan you just mentioned there, Higbee maybe

503
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: the guy that you look at if you're looking at

504
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 4: for upside and Raybond. You look at what Higbee did

505
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 4: at the end of the season. He had, you know,

506
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 4: eleven point two five targets one hundred and four point

507
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 4: five yards in four games, so an average of eleven

508
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 4: point two five in over one hundred yards in four

509
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 4: games without Gerald Everett, but with Everett had only four

510
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 4: point four targets thirty one point six yards per game.

511
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 4: So horrific splits. What are your thoughts on Higbee and

512
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 4: some of these other guys within that tier?

513
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 3: All right, First of.

514
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 5: All, what's stop this Gerald Everett hype. He doesn't even

515
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 5: deserve to be mentioned. It's over for Gerald Everett. What

516
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 5: has he been in the weegue now? Four or five years?

517
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 5: Higg It looked like it was over for Higby, but

518
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 5: then Higbey made that jump and Everett came back. This

519
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 5: is what a lot of people forget when you point

520
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 5: out these Everett Higbee splits, and you know when they

521
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 5: play together, and how the numbers dropped off once Higby

522
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 5: got on his run, and that was a five game

523
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 5: run over the last five weeks of the season, aided

524
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 5: by the Cardinals harble tight end defense. I will admit

525
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 5: eleven point two targets eight point six catches one hundred

526
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 5: and four yards per game, with point four touchdowns over

527
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 5: the last five.

528
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 3: Everett came back.

529
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 5: In Week sixteen. He played four offensive snaps. He was

530
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 5: active again the next week, played none two special team snaps,

531
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 5: So he wasn't hurt because he played on special teams.

532
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: You don't play, that's hurt on special teams. That's the

533
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 3: easiest way to get hurt. Everett is done. It's over.

534
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 5: They figured out the solution to Jared goff in the

535
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 5: offensive line's inability to give him time to go deep

536
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 5: and his uncomfortableness with being behind that offensive line, and

537
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 5: it's to you know, use Higbee in the intermediate area.

538
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 5: Johnny Munt is a better blocker than Everett, so he

539
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 5: played more. To me, ever, it's a non factor. I

540
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 5: have him ranked fifty six. It's just over for him,

541
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 5: I think. But one hundred and forty one to four,

542
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 5: that is how much Tyer Higby out snapped Girl Everett

543
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 5: on offense in the last two games, one hundred and

544
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 5: forty one to four. But for the most part, I

545
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 5: do agree with Sean that this tier is kind of ugly,

546
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 5: and that's why I do think zach Ertz has a

547
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 5: little more value than we're giving him credit for. Yes,

548
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 5: he's kind of entering that declined phase, but I think

549
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 5: it will be a slow burn. I don't think the

550
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 5: Eagles wide receiving corps is in great shape this year either.

551
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 5: I mean, you're talking about Shaun Jackson, an old version

552
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 5: of him, you're talking about a rookie, and you're talking

553
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 5: about Alshon Jeffery who was probably gonna start year on puff.

554
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,959
Speaker 5: So it could be another twenty five percent of targets

555
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 5: for Ertz. He has declined a little bit in terms

556
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 5: of his you know, per route efficiency three year lows

557
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 5: in pretty much every category last year, but it was

558
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 5: just a slight down tick. So I think Art is fine.

559
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 5: Hunter Henry's the gotten really avoiding. I think that, as

560
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 5: Sean mentioned, there's not gonna be enough yards to go around,

561
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 5: and Hunter Henry does nothing after the catch. Fortieth of

562
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 5: forty four tight ends in yards after the catch just

563
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 5: three point zero. He had a ten point two average

564
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 5: up to target and he just he averaged just eleven

565
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 5: point nine per catch.

566
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: He's not getting anywhere.

567
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 5: And Shane Steiking when he took over, he went from

568
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 5: a sixty five sixty six percent pass rate to a

569
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 5: fifty nine percent pass rate and eleven percent dip would

570
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 5: have dropped Henry into the tight end twelve thirteen range.

571
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: I think that's where he should go this year.

572
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 5: Tyrod Taylor only twenty eight and a half passed the

573
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 5: simpse per game in his career as a starter.

574
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 4: Okay, So there's three guys at the bottom of the

575
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 4: tight end one tier, and we talked about a couple

576
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 4: of these guys. You have Jared Cook, Austin Hooper, Hayden Hurst, Denny.

577
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 4: You mentioned Jared Cook earlier as a guy that you

578
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 4: are really looking to stay away from. You talked about

579
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 4: hayden Hurst as someone who provides value at this point

580
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 4: in the draft and that you're looking to get. And

581
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 4: then obviously Hooper is the guy whose job hayden Hurst

582
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 4: now has. Talk a little bit about hayden Hurst and

583
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 4: what it is that you see in him that you

584
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 4: really like.

585
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, just volume and volume of opportunity on

586
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 6: a traditionally pass heavy Atlanta offense. You know, last year

587
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 6: the Falcons through the I believe the most passes of

588
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 6: any team in the league, and that was the result

589
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 6: of them facing a ton of negative game script in

590
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 6: the first half of the season, and it sort of

591
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 6: evened out in the second half. But you know, with

592
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 6: with that sort of offense, you know, like I talked

593
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 6: about with Tampa, with with those two wide receivers drawing

594
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 6: so much defensive attention, and rightfully so, Hurst has that

595
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 6: same thing going for him in Atlanta with Ridley and

596
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 6: Julio drawing, you know, the attention of defenses. The middle

597
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 6: of the field has been opened for Matt Ryan, or

598
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 6: was open last year with Austin Hooper, and we saw,

599
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 6: you know, we saw Hooper. I think at one point

600
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 6: in the middle of the season he was the top

601
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 6: scoring tight end and fantasy we that wouldn't hold up.

602
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 6: But what a value, you know, what a value for

603
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 6: someone who was taken very late in drafts in twenty nineteen,

604
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 6: so you know, her steps into that role. I don't

605
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 6: really focus so much on, you know, the ability or

606
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 6: the pedigree of tight ends, but if someone has a

607
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 6: lockdown position on a good offense, a good pass heavy

608
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 6: offense with other threats to distract the defense, and I

609
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 6: like that guy, and that guy's Hurst.

610
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 4: Right well, I unreasonably am interested in Hurst because of

611
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 4: the first round draft pedigree, and then because the Falcons

612
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 4: invested a second round pick in him via trade, and

613
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 4: really a lot of it in Dena's you mentioned he's

614
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 4: in the offense that made Austin Hooper the number three

615
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 4: tight end in fantasy last year, and I'm looking at

616
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 4: Hooper now traded from a pass heavy offense to a

617
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 4: running back centric offense. I look at Jared Cook and

618
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 4: he just looks like a prime regression candidate. I'm really

619
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 4: looking to avoid Cook and Hooper very much more interested

620
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 4: in Hayden Hurst. Sean is Hurst someone that you're interested

621
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 4: in or you're still kind of looking to stay away

622
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 4: from him and go for guys after well, I mean I.

623
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: Am definitely interested in Hurst.

624
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 7: Unfortunately the market is on to him and he's going

625
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 7: a bit too early to have too much of. But

626
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 7: you know, last year, Austin Hooper ended up being my

627
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 7: most highly owned tight end and it had almost nothing

628
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 7: to do with Hooper as a player.

629
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: It was all about the scheme.

630
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 7: If you look at Dirt Cutter throughout his career, you

631
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 7: know wherever he goes, the tight ends thrive. So you

632
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 7: know Hayden Hurst is going to go right into the

633
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 7: Austin Hooper role, and like you said, he's probably more talented.

634
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 7: So that's why I'm considering hayden Hurst essentially Austin Hooper

635
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 7: last year, and I'm completely fading Austin Hooper this year.

636
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 7: I want nothing to do with him, especially on the

637
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 7: Browns offense. They should be a little more run heavy,

638
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 7: run two tight end sets. Please don't draft Austin Hooper.

639
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 7: If if you took him last year, it was great,

640
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 7: but we got to move on. And you know, Jared Cook,

641
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 7: I think he's he's an option in best Ball. I

642
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 7: don't want anything to do with him redraft, but best ball,

643
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 7: you know, you don't have to figure out when he's

644
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 7: going to have his spiked weeks, when he's going to

645
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 7: have his duds. So I think for Best Ball I

646
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 7: can definitely get behind taking a guy like Jared Cook.

647
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 7: But again, this tier, it just seems like you're spending

648
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 7: a little bit too much draft capital at tight end

649
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 7: when you can just wait and get one of these

650
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 7: upside tight ends that have every bit of much upside

651
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 7: as you know a hayden Hurst does. So that's why

652
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 7: I'm still kind of passing even on this tier.

653
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 4: Raybond where are you on these three guys?

654
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 5: I love Hurst, I think the way you have to

655
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 5: approach tight end and Sean I think we actually diverge

656
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 5: a little bit. I'm not really that excited about those

657
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 5: guys in the like the thirteen to twenty tier, and

658
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 5: is because the way I'm looking at the position is

659
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 5: it's always going to be streamable, so I can get

660
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 5: those guys without even drafting them, and they're gonna have

661
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 5: good matchups. But when I'm drafting, I'm really looking for

662
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 5: one of the few tight ends that can approximate what

663
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 5: the top four are doing, and that means about, you know,

664
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 5: at least five catches per game. Austin Hooper is because

665
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 5: of that offense, because their defense is so bad that

666
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 5: he can just whoever the tight end is can just

667
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,959
Speaker 5: pull up a chair and sit down right in that

668
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 5: prevent defense in the fourth quarter and add like a

669
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 5: couple extra catches every almost every game.

670
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: And I have the Atlanta Under.

671
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 5: I talked about it on the on the Latest Action

672
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 5: Network Betting pod.

673
00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: I love the Atlanta under.

674
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 5: Their schedule was tough, in my opinion, I think their

675
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 5: defense was not improved enough, so I think the situation

676
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 5: is going to be similar. Hurst in Baltimore only blocked

677
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 5: two percent of the time on pass plays.

678
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: They didn't get him to block.

679
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 5: They traded a pretty substantial pick for him. I think

680
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 5: he's going to slide right into that hooper role and

681
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 5: I really don't see guys later on that I think

682
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 5: could catch five balls a game.

683
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: I don't think Gronk can do it.

684
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 5: His targets per route run was a career low eighteen

685
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 5: percent in his last in twenty eighteen. Before that, it

686
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 5: was twenty four percent, so he did suffer a pretty

687
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 5: major decline. And Brady is not going to throw it

688
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 5: into traffic. Bra You know it's clear that Brady is

689
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 5: going to play it safe. He led the league and

690
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 5: thrown away passes last year. So Gronk I don't think

691
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 5: is going to be able to do it. Jared Cook,

692
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 5: I don't think he's going to be able to do it.

693
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 5: You're gonna be relying on touchdowns. But Hurst could do it,

694
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 5: Waller could do it. Ingram is in the top three

695
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 5: in terms of six catch games since since he came

696
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 5: into the league, even with the miss games.

697
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: He can do it.

698
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 5: And then Higbee maybe can do it. But I think

699
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 5: Higbee goes through early relative to some of the receivers

700
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 5: that are still on board. Hooper, I want nothing to

701
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 5: do with. I just think that often is going to

702
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 5: be too low volume. And yeah, that's that's kind of

703
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 5: how I'm looking at the position. I think Hurst is

704
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 5: the guy that stands out as like could be this

705
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 5: year's Waller, this year's Hooper.

706
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 4: All Raymon, you just mentioned there that some of these

707
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 4: upside tight ends going a little bit later, like guys

708
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 4: thirteen through twenty, you're not quite as interested in them.

709
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 4: This is the tier I'm kind of looking to target like,

710
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 4: I actually like a number of these guys, and Denny,

711
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 4: i'd like your thoughts on them, especially some of these

712
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 4: younger guys. We can talk about some of these older

713
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 4: veteran dad runners a little bit later, but it's the

714
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 4: younger guys within this tier who catch my eye much

715
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 4: more so. Noah Fense number eleven tight end last year

716
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 4: with eight and a half yards per target as a rookie.

717
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 4: I think that's pretty good. You have Mike is Sick,

718
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 4: who is a ninety seven percentile spark athlete, TJ. Hawkinson,

719
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 4: who maybe is the best tight end prospect entering the

720
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 4: league since Gronk exploded in Week one with over one

721
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 4: hundred yards and a touchdown. Really did nothing after that.

722
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 4: But Matt Stafford is returning. There's some reason for enthusiasm

723
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 4: with him. Dallas Goddard, who had twelve point one PPR

724
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 4: points per game last year from week six on John

725
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 4: hu Smith it was number two last year with ten

726
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 4: yards per target, who even chips in as a runner,

727
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 4: which is pretty rare for a tight end, but he

728
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 4: does it at a pretty high level. And then the

729
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: guy you mentioned earlier, Blake Jarwin. I look at all

730
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 4: of those guys and I think, I mean, I'll take

731
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 4: any of them. I'll take all of them. Denny, where

732
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 4: are you?

733
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 6: I'm with you. I did a series for four for

734
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 6: four dot com on late round tight ends who could

735
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 6: see volume. You know that it is really not baked

736
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 6: into their valuation right now. One of those guys who

737
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 6: just popped out was was TJ. Hockinson. Right like you said,

738
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 6: beyond the pedigree, you know, you look at how he

739
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 6: was used last year. He ran twenty four routes per

740
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 6: game in the games that he did play all the

741
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 6: way through. He would you know, obviously was dinged up

742
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 6: here and there did miss some games. I looked at

743
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 6: what kind of opportunity he could have this year. And

744
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 6: if you look at Detroit tight ends in total in

745
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen, they saw one hundred and fifteen targets. Hopkinson

746
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 6: saw fifty two percent of those those targets. And if

747
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 6: the Lions offense passes at around the same rate, obviously

748
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 6: they're not going to want to, you know, with Matt

749
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 6: Patricia being Matt Patricia. But you know, if they do,

750
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 6: then you could have Hockkinson seeing you know, fourteen to

751
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 6: fifteen percent target share and be a red zone threat.

752
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 6: You know, no one saw more red zone targets I

753
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 6: believe last year than Kenny Galladay, and so if they

754
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 6: spread that around a little more this year, then you

755
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 6: would think that Honkinson Hopkinson. I can't say name. I

756
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 6: keep saying honk Honkinson.

757
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 4: I thought you said Honkinson, which I thought pretty good.

758
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 4: I think it's pretty accurate.

759
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 6: Yes, No, we need to make that happen. I've been

760
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 6: calling him the Hawk. I don't know if that's going

761
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 6: to catch up. Hankinson is a natural kind of red

762
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 6: zone threat near the goal line. Like you said, you know,

763
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 6: Stafford being back means everything to him. You know, to

764
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 6: every pass catcher in Detroit, and he's going undrafted in

765
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 6: a lot of leagues. I mean not the leagues that

766
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 6: you know, not best ball leagues or whatever we're playing

767
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 6: in right now, but in casual leagues at ten to

768
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 6: twelve teen leagues this year, nobody's going to draft him,

769
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 6: and he could. I think that there's a clear path

770
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 6: to him becoming a reliable fantasy starter this year.

771
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 4: Corner, where are you on these six guys that I mentioned,

772
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 4: Fan Kasicki, Hawkinson, Goddard Smith, and Blake Jarwin. You know

773
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 4: these guys, the young upside guys within the thirty to

774
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: twenty tier, sorry, thirteen to twenty tier.

775
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, I would I would focus on the top four,

776
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 7: so Fan, Jioseki, Hawkinson, and Goddard. The beauty of waiting

777
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 7: at tight end is I mean, I could end up

778
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 7: with any one of those and be fine.

779
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: Again, Raybaun made a good point, you.

780
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 7: Know earlier I would say Hurst, if he does faults

781
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 7: to me, I absolutely want to target him. But all

782
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 7: of these guys, you know, if you draft them, the

783
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 7: streaming at tight end is going to be easier than ever.

784
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: Now.

785
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 7: I just think it as the NFL becomes more past heavy,

786
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 7: we're seeing tight ends. You know, they're running more routes.

787
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 7: It's it's becoming a more fancy, viable position. So there

788
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 7: isn't as big of a drop off at top anymore.

789
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 7: So you know, if you take Mike Joessecke, I'm not

790
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 7: saying play them all sixteen weeks, force them in there

791
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 7: when they play the Patriots, I'm saying you can stream

792
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 7: the position. So I'm just starting off by taking one

793
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 7: of these high upside guys if they pan out. Like

794
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 7: going back to twenty eighteen, taking George Kittle in this

795
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 7: range was a league winning play. Last year, taking Austin Hooper,

796
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 7: Mark Andrews, Darren Waller was probably not drafted in most leagues.

797
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 2: League winning plays.

798
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 7: I just think being able to kind of get tight

799
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 7: end this late if they hit and they're a top five,

800
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 7: top ten option, it's such an advantage and you're able

801
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 7: to load up. I think this year more than ever,

802
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 7: having depth at running back in wide receiver is very important.

803
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 7: So it just allows you to load up at those

804
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 7: key positions where we do have the option to stream

805
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 7: tight end now and I would even say maybe not

806
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 7: this year, but next year especially we're going to be

807
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 7: able to play tight ends in our flex slot as well.

808
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 7: I think the position's going to be deep enough to

809
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 7: do things like that. So I just think waiting to

810
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 7: get away of these high upside tight ends entering year

811
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 7: three or four is the way to go this.

812
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 4: Year, Raymon, you mentioned that you're viewing these guys is

813
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: sort of more streaming assets as opposed to guys that

814
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 4: you're drafting. Which one of these stands out the most

815
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 4: is the guy that you think offers value right now

816
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 4: given his ADP, say John Smith.

817
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 5: And the reason I say that is again, I don't

818
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 5: want to tight end. I don't want a tight end

819
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 5: that's gonna perform at the level of a wide receiver.

820
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: Three.

821
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,439
Speaker 5: Like, I think that's a lot of times what we're

822
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 5: getting excited about in this range. And I think Waller

823
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 5: andrews Kittle were guys that I know we were on

824
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 5: like we were on these guys. There were clear guys

825
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 5: that we were targeting, whereas this year it's more of

826
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 5: a collective effort. It's like any one of them may hit,

827
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 5: but that doesn't do me any good as a drafter.

828
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 5: I think that's those are all great best ball picks,

829
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 5: but I think in a normal draft I don't really

830
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 5: want any so even John Smith I'm not terribly excited about.

831
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 5: But the reason I say Smith is because as it stands,

832
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 5: I view Smith as the number two target on the

833
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 5: Titans offense. Corey Davis has shown that he's not able

834
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 5: to get open at a very good rate. AJ Brown's

835
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 5: the clear top target. But you know, even his target

836
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 5: rate per route because he the defenses are focusing on

837
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 5: him on so much, is around twenty per which is

838
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 5: not that high.

839
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: Now.

840
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 5: It could definitely, you know, grow a year or two,

841
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 5: but there is kind of this opening where the Titans

842
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 5: could throw more, they could regress to the mean, and

843
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 5: John was an extremely explosive player, and that's what I'm

844
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 5: gonna bet on. So I think Noah Fan also is

845
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 5: in this tier where he could end up being perhaps

846
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 5: maybe there's a small chance at least of him being

847
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 5: the number two target in Denver. I think Judy in

848
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 5: Gordon complicate that, but there's a chance he could have

849
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 5: like a Kiddle like breakout.

850
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: But I think you just want explosiveness at that point. JOHNA.

851
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 3: Smith is a guy who has.

852
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 5: Made you know, numerous big plays averaged about nearly thirteen

853
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 5: yards per catch over the last two years and fan

854
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 5: average fourteen.

855
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 3: So those are the guys.

856
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 5: But I just I think all these guys realistically are

857
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 5: gonna be if we're lucky, they get to four catches

858
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 5: per game, and that's just not what I want.

859
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 3: That's still like a back end te one at best.

860
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 5: So I don't think that these guys should be were

861
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 5: targeting because we don't have like a clear guy. I

862
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 5: think Hurst, if he falls and we're including him in

863
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 5: that category, then he's the clear guy. But as Sean mentioned,

864
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 5: he's going a little too early. So I actually think

865
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 5: the top four and then Waller, Ingram and in Hurst

866
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 5: are the real targets and Higbee goes too early. So

867
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 5: that's really all I'm targeting at tight end. Anyone else

868
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 5: I'll just take. I'll just pick up whoever didn't get drafted.

869
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 5: And I think guys we just mentioned.

870
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 4: All right, well speaking guys who didn't get drafted, there's

871
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 4: this tier of old veteran dad runners, and you know,

872
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 4: we should probably mention them, but I'm just gonna be honest,

873
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 4: I don't really I'm not excited about any of them.

874
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 4: Eric Ibron is the guy in this tier that I

875
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 4: would say is most palatable. I can I can see

876
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 4: the path forward for him. But Jack Doyle, I mean,

877
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 4: maybe the most boring pro bowler ever in twenty nineteen.

878
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 4: Greg Olsen, I mean, we know he's retiring after this year.

879
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 4: It feels like this is just sort of like pre

880
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 4: retirement for him. Kyle Rudolph in a run first offense,

881
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 4: but I mean he does have six touchdowns per year

882
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 4: over the past half decade, so he's someone you can't

883
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 4: totally ignore. And then I mean Jimmy Graham, the guy

884
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 4: is still alive. I feel like that deserves its own

885
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 4: news blurb. And then seven point three yards per target

886
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 4: over the past two seasons. That's not something I'm interested in.

887
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 4: So these guys in general, I'm just looking to stay

888
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 4: away from. But Denny, if you had to choose one,

889
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 4: if you absolutely had to, why is it Aerke Bron?

890
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 6: It is? I actually had had him in my series

891
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 6: on four for four, where you know, you look at

892
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 6: Ben Roethlisberger's history with tight end it would you know

893
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 6: it would take it would take some injuries on the

894
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 6: Steelers offense. I think for Ebron to emerge as an

895
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,439
Speaker 6: every week fantasy option. Particularly, you know, Vance McDonald will

896
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 6: steiny that in the in the early going, and not

897
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 6: that Vance McDonald is, you know, some huge threat, but

898
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 6: he's there. I do think it is a good idea.

899
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 6: On Monday, I'll get right on writing a blurb on

900
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 6: Jimmy Graham saying that he is in fact in the NFL.

901
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 6: I think that I think that'll really catch people's attention.

902
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 6: But no, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm not interested in

903
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 6: the other guys, although I will say on living the

904
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 6: Stream obviously at some point this season we're going to

905
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 6: make the case, an impassioned case, that you have to

906
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 6: play Greg Olsen, you just have to. I'm preparing emotionally,

907
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 6: I'm preparing for that.

908
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 4: Okay, well it's I'm imagining it will probably help. If

909
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 4: he's going against the Arizona Cardinals. I'm thinking, yeah, that's

910
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 4: that's the bullish argument for him. He plays against them

911
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 4: two times this year. Sean, anything to say about these old,

912
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 4: decrepit guys that we want no part of, Well.

913
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 7: I mean, first off, Erk Bron Yes, he's he's a veteran,

914
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 7: but he's like six months older than Hayden Hurst, So

915
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 7: I mean he's kind of a tweener here.

916
00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: He's still in his prime.

917
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 7: And it's a ironic that last year I kept saying

918
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 7: Vance McDonald is going to be this year's Eric Ebron

919
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 7: for the Steelers offense, obviously when Big Ben got hurt,

920
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 7: that throughout the window. So I think it's ironic that

921
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 7: Eric Hebron is in this role. I think he could

922
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 7: end up being, you know, one of Big Ben's favorite

923
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 7: red zone targets. So yeah, if there's any guy you're

924
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,720
Speaker 7: going to pick from this group, it'd be Eric Ebron,

925
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 7: just based on he's not an old veteran and he's

926
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 7: in a good offense.

927
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, I want nothing to do with Greg Olsen.

928
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 7: Jason Whitten was actually the first tight end over the

929
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 7: age of thirty five to crack two hundred and twenty

930
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 7: receiving yards. He put up a whopping five hundred and

931
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 7: thirty last year. So that's that's what you're dealing with.

932
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 7: Greg Golson. I'm not I'm not betting against Father Time.

933
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 7: If anything, I'm drafting Will Disley as my third tight

934
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 7: end in best Ball and hopefully Greg Golson gets phased

935
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 7: out after a few games and Will Disley takes over.

936
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 7: But I want nothing to do with any of these

937
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 7: guys other than Eric Ebron.

938
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 4: All Right, ray Bon, on the series show, you and

939
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 4: I have talked a few times about Eric Ebron and

940
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 4: how he's I mean, you know, like he's someone you

941
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 4: can you can take, like, especially in Best Ball, Like

942
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 4: he's palatable, and I feel like you were actually much

943
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 4: more interested in him than I would have expected. Give

944
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 4: us the breakdown on Ebron.

945
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I think it's largely related to

946
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 5: my bearishness on kind of the tight ends outside the

947
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 5: top eight, because I could, and it's gonna sound super

948
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 5: hot takey, but I could easily rank Eric Ebron like

949
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 5: Knights like like like it's not there's just no difference

950
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 5: to me between any of those people at like that,

951
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 5: cause there's just not that five catch upside. There's not

952
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 5: that upside to land in that top five and this,

953
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 5: and if you're talking about a week where you're ten

954
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 5: or twelve teams, you don't want like the te nine

955
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 5: really like, if you're being honest.

956
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 3: So the reason I'm like Ebron is because.

957
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 5: You're looking for a way to get an outlier, to

958
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 5: fall into an outlier a guy who outperforms his volume

959
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 5: and John who could do it based on explosiveness. Maybe

960
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 5: John who does it if A J. Brown gets hurt

961
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 5: and he's the de facto number one target. But Eric Ebron,

962
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 5: we literally have evidence of him doing exactly this.

963
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: Only two years ago.

964
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 5: In twenty eighteen, he played right around fifty percent of

965
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 5: the snaps and he caught thirteen touchdown passes from Andrew Luck.

966
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 5: He averaged four point one catches per game in forty

967
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 5: seven yards, which is, you know, for a tight end

968
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 5: that's not you know, among that top tier, pretty good

969
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 5: and about the best you're gonna hope for. So twenty

970
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,479
Speaker 5: nineteen comes and we get Jacobe Brissett instead of Andrew Luck,

971
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 5: and Eric Ebron's numbers decline and touchdowns are high variants.

972
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 5: But Ben Roethlisberger top of the league in yards, attempts,

973
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 5: touchdown passes almost every year when he's healthy. So Eric

974
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 5: ebron situation is now twenty eighteen. Eric Ebron, and he's

975
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 5: only twenty seven. He checks all the boxes in terms

976
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 5: of when you look at his perrout efficiency, he's targeted

977
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 5: about twenty Even last year he was targeted on about

978
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 5: twenty four percent of his routes.

979
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 3: So he's a guy that could easily.

980
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 5: Be like the tight end seven or six, and that's

981
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 5: about the best you're gonna hope for in this tier.

982
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 5: And I could get Ebron after like Fan and Jarwin

983
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 5: and John U and Hopkinson and all those guys. So

984
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 5: he is my preferred weight round guy, Like I'm actually

985
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,919
Speaker 5: skipping that like the ten through like nineteen twenty tier

986
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 5: and just it's all Ebron for me, Like he's on

987
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 5: every best ball team.

988
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 4: The one negative thing I will say about Ibron is

989
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 4: that even though and it's because he entered the league

990
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 4: as a twenty one year old, so you know, he's

991
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 4: been he's been in the league a long time, so

992
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 4: it feels like he's older. But even though he's the

993
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 4: only entering his age twenty seven season, the over under

994
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 4: for like his real body at this point, it's got

995
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 4: to be like thirty two and a half, the guy

996
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 4: feels as if he is aged, not not aged aged.

997
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 4: That's how old he seems. Okay, let's talk about some

998
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 4: of these deeper dark throws. Some people have talked about

999
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 4: Chris Herndon with a little bit of enthusiasm Earth Smith

1000
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,919
Speaker 4: Junior as someone who's been brought up Jace Sternberger, who

1001
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 4: did nothing as a rookie. But I mean, you could

1002
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 4: kind of see a path to how he actually might

1003
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 4: end up being the number two receiver on the Packers.

1004
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 5: You don't wrong about everything Packers related, for even Oh

1005
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 5: my god, Matthew Freeman, why do you do this to me?

1006
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 3: Why Like I was, I was on mute. I was

1007
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 3: on mute. I didn't even get through the rest of

1008
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 3: the list.

1009
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 5: Jay Sternberger, he shouldn't even be in this podcast outline.

1010
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: That's ridiculous.

1011
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 5: I would bet any amount of money at any ridiculous

1012
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 5: odds that Jay Sternberger will not be the number two

1013
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 5: tight end.

1014
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 3: When Aaron Rodgers can't even like connect with good tight

1015
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 3: ends like that, that was a bad take.

1016
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 4: You can you can see the path to it happening.

1017
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 4: Moving on, Ian Thomas, he feels like an upside player,

1018
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 4: but he had just nine five point nine yards per

1019
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 4: target the past two years. You have Wolf Disley who

1020
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 4: has an elite ten point two yards per target for

1021
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 4: his career, but he's played in just ten games. Dawson

1022
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 4: Knox is someone that you know, some people have talked about,

1023
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 4: but you know, man Denny, any thoughts on any of

1024
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 4: these guys who are deeper dart throws.

1025
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 6: You named a lot of tight ends who on the

1026
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 6: right team would be very interesting. I'm intrigued by Chris

1027
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 6: Herndon because thirty seven percent of the Jets targets have

1028
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 6: been vacated since the end of twenty nineteen. That accounts

1029
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 6: for one hundred and eighty three targets. No team has

1030
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 6: more vacated air yards than the Jets. I'm not saying

1031
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 6: that Herndon steps in and just eats up all the

1032
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 6: all that available opportunity, air yards, targets, whatever, but there's

1033
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 6: there's a lot of reason to believe that he will

1034
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 6: be a consistent part in that offense. If we're talking

1035
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 6: here to people who are entering pretty casual leagues, Hernon

1036
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 6: is not going to be drafted, and I could really

1037
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 6: see him having, you know, an early season blow up

1038
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 6: game somebody you know, You pick him up and he

1039
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 6: becomes pretty reliable. Ian Thomas I wrote a piece for

1040
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 6: Wroteal World about how pass heavy the Carolina offense could

1041
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 6: be this season. And if you buy that argument, if

1042
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 6: you think that they will be bad and will be

1043
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 6: throwing a lot with Teddy Bridgewater, then you kind of

1044
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 6: have to like Ian Thomas a little bit. I'm definitely

1045
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 6: gravitating toward the ones in offenses that are going to

1046
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 6: throw Sean.

1047
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 4: Do any of these guys catch your eye?

1048
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:32,479
Speaker 7: I mean, you got to be in an extremely deep

1049
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 7: league or you know, tight end premium to even consider

1050
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 7: these guys. But Rayvon made a good point earlier when

1051
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 7: he was talking about Ebron where in this range you

1052
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 7: just want to go for maximum upside. And it's a

1053
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 7: point I forgot to make when it came to like

1054
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 7: a guy like Dallas Goddard, who his value is kind

1055
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 7: of suppressed because of zach ERT's presence. But if zach

1056
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 7: Ertz were to go down, I mean he would be

1057
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 7: borderline top five tight end. So having that sort of

1058
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 7: built in upside is actually valuable. So in this range,

1059
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 7: you know, guys like IRV Smith, there's reasons why they're

1060
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 7: this low. It's because they're in more of a tight

1061
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 7: end time share. Those are the dark throws you want

1062
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 7: to take here, where you know, if Tyrol Higby goes down,

1063
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 7: I could see Jeryl Leverett being a top tight end

1064
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 7: like really, so IRV Smith, Will Disley, Jeryl Elevertt, those

1065
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 7: are the only guys to target here, and you kind

1066
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 7: of need an injury for them to hit Raymond.

1067
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 4: Any thoughts at all other than the ones you've already

1068
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 4: shared this tier.

1069
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, if you're in a league where you have

1070
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 5: to draft this tier at tight end, you're I don't know,

1071
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 5: you might be two into fantasy.

1072
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 3: I think this was the worst.

1073
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 5: Like this is an award winning podcast for the sharpest

1074
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 5: people in the industry.

1075
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 3: This might have been the worst fifteen.

1076
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 5: Minutes of a podcast we've ever done because we just

1077
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 5: wasted our time talking about the most irrelevant dudes Like

1078
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 5: Gerald ever shouldn't even been in the outline.

1079
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 3: Neither should Sternberger.

1080
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 5: Like this week, at least you could say he is

1081
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 5: a high upside dude. ARV Smith and Ian Thomas in

1082
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 5: theory are appealing, but a red flag for me is

1083
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 5: that their yards per route run and just generally their

1084
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 5: their target per out run numbers.

1085
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 3: Are very bad.

1086
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 5: I always worry a lot about guys who were kind

1087
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 5: of banking on volume, but they've shown in the past

1088
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 5: that they just are not that good at getting open.

1089
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 3: I think Herndon is the clear guy, like.

1090
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 5: As you mentioned, because he's that guy, I could at

1091
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 5: least he getting to like four catches per game. He's

1092
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 5: a guy I could see being the number two, perhaps

1093
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 5: number two guy in the Jets. He has the chemistry

1094
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 5: with Darnald. The issue is Ryan Griffin. They signed Ryan

1095
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 5: Griffin to an extension, Like you could put all these

1096
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 5: guys in a hat and just take any one of them.

1097
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 5: I would rather take a guy like Dan Arnold over

1098
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 5: Jay Sternbergers because it's like, at least he's on Arizona.

1099
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 5: He could probably be the number he could be the

1100
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 5: number four guy. But they all they all stink, like

1101
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 5: none of these guys you want to draft.

1102
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 4: That was the worst take dan Arnold versus Jayster.

1103
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 3: That was really dan Arnold.

1104
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 5: Dan Arnold way like thirty five to forty percent of

1105
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 5: the routes, kind of like a wide receiver Darren Waller type,

1106
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 5: and he's in an offense that spreads out and they

1107
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 5: got him wait last year, so we don't know what

1108
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 5: the true plan is. He could easily take some of

1109
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 5: Mask Williams snaps, and he could easily outsnapped Sternberger.

1110
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 7: I just love the guy talking shit about us, talking

1111
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 7: about bad let us down.

1112
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 2: A Dan Arnold.

1113
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:13,800
Speaker 4: Yes, Raymond, I totally do agree with you on Herndon.

1114
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 4: I think he is the guy in this year. Had

1115
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 4: nine yards per target as a rookie in twenty eighteen.

1116
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 4: Twenty nineteen very much a last season. It's just it's

1117
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 4: hard to know what to expect with Adam Gase there

1118
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 4: shackling the potential of Chris Herndon. Three, Jase Sternberger absolutely

1119
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 4: belonged on this podcast, just based on one, I would say,

1120
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 4: the conversation that he engendered. But two, No, Sternberger. Here's

1121
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 4: the thing. Okay, just a year ago, he was a

1122
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 4: third round prospect taken who has a pretty clear path.

1123
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 4: Even if he's not the starter, he at least has

1124
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 4: a path to being the starter on an offense that

1125
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 4: doesn't have a clear number two wide receiver. And in

1126
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 4: college he had eight hundred and thirty two yard and

1127
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 4: ten touchdowns receiving in his final season. There's a reason

1128
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 4: why Sternberger belongs in the NFL. We know what Dan

1129
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 4: Arnold is, Jace Sternberger could actually end up being a

1130
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 4: viable tight end who has multiple seasons of fantasy utility.

1131
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 3: They drafted Sternberger in the third round. I get it.

1132
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 5: I get it, And guess what Sternberger was like a

1133
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 5: healthy scratch most of the year. And not only that,

1134
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 5: but they.

1135
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 3: Played Marcedes Louis.

1136
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 5: More than like all of those other dudes that are

1137
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 5: still on the depth chart, and then they resigned Marcedes Lewis.

1138
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 7: All right, I'll connect it back to Hayden Hurst for you.

1139
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 7: So Marcedes Mercedes Lewis under dirt cutter twenty ten was

1140
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 7: the tight end four on the Jaguars draft Hayden Hurst.

1141
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 2: There you go.

1142
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 4: Yes, No, that's I mean, yes, but no, that's not

1143
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 4: want I want to by doing two things. One, I

1144
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 4: want to kick it back to Denny, and Denny, I

1145
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 4: want you to settle this Jace Sternberger versus Dan Arnold

1146
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 4: debate where I clearly win. So go ahead and settle

1147
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 4: that for us.

1148
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 6: First, I'm gonna throw it into absolute mayhem. And I'm

1149
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 6: saying Chris is absolutely correct on Arnold over Sternberg. Yes,

1150
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 6: there's way more upside with the wide receiver. Yeah. And

1151
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 6: and and the Cardinals. I know this as an employee

1152
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 6: of Rotal World. The Cardinals beat writer for ESPN, had

1153
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 6: a little snippet about how the team is excited to

1154
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 6: have him in the offense, and like, like Chris said

1155
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 6: in an open offense. I just I'm so bored of

1156
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 6: Packers pass catchers besides Devon's have so besides him, I'm

1157
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 6: just not I'm just not interested. I I like Arnold

1158
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 6: over Sternberg. I don't know if you guys overhead me back.

1159
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 4: I don't know, Denny. If I didn't have to ask

1160
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 4: you this second question, I would have muted you while

1161
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 4: while you were talking. But so, what is what's going

1162
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 4: on at rotal World? What stuff do we need to

1163
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 4: check out? What hashtag content are you providing there?

1164
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 6: Absolutely well that the team previews are are, you know,

1165
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 6: coming up every day. The guys there have been doing

1166
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 6: a great job. Jos Josh Norris has a great piece

1167
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 6: on the Carolina offense and what that could provide for

1168
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 6: fantasy purposes. Pat Doherty has been writing team previews. Hayden

1169
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 6: Wings has been doing great job obviously, John Dago as well.

1170
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 6: I've been, you know, doing some player profiles. I had

1171
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 6: one on Teddy Bridgewater, going to have a couple this week.

1172
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 6: So it's you know, lots lots of hashtag content, as

1173
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 6: you said, and I think it's a great way to

1174
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 6: get a feel, you know, for what offenses can provide

1175
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 6: for your Fantasy Team. If you know, if you're a

1176
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 6: well adjusted person who has not been studying and researching

1177
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 6: this stuff for the past three months.

1178
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 4: All right. You can follow Denny on Twitter at CD

1179
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 4: quarter thirteen. On our next NFL episode will be breaking

1180
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 4: down the top twelve Fantasy wide receivers. You can follow Sean,

1181
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 4: Chris and Me in the Action Network ap at the

1182
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 4: Underscore Odds Maker Chris Raybond and Matt f the Oracle.

1183
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 4: Please subscribe to and rate and review the show and

1184
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 4: listen and download on Spotify. See you again next episode.

1185
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 2: We're finished talking