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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where hyping up

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Speaker 1: a first time author in today's episode is a great

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Speaker 1: excuse to tell you to pre order my book Runs

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Speaker 1: in the Family, out in Paperbackson you miss the shameless

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Speaker 1: plugs for the book, admit it. It's Wednesday, April twenty ninth,

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Speaker 1: and on today's show, we're skipping the need to know

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Speaker 1: and getting straight to my interview with professional runner, med student,

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Speaker 1: and newly published author Mary Cain. Caine's memoir This Is

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Speaker 1: Not About Running was released on Tuesday, and I caught

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Speaker 1: up with her last week to discuss her writing process,

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Speaker 1: plus the struggles she encountered in high school before joining

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Speaker 1: the Nike organ Project, the lies she was told as

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Speaker 1: a member of that elite pro team, and the reality

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Speaker 1: of quote unquote hot girl contracts. That conversation, plus how

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Speaker 1: Cain's book works in tandem with another standout memoir, and

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Speaker 1: some breaking news from a superstar athlete who makes an

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Speaker 1: appearance in both books. It's all coming up right after

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Speaker 1: this welcome back slices Before we get to the interview

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Speaker 1: with Mary, just a little bit about her. For those

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Speaker 1: who aren't super familiar. Now, you've likely heard the name

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Speaker 1: Mary Kane, either as a phenom on the way up

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Speaker 1: or as a cautionary tale on the way down. At

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Speaker 1: just seventeen, she became the first American high school girl

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Speaker 1: to break the two minute mark in an eight hundred

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Speaker 1: meter race and became the youngest US runner to make

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Speaker 1: a World Championships team. She joined a super elite training

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Speaker 1: camp run by former marathon great Alberto Salazar called the

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Speaker 1: Nike Oregon Project, and over the course of several years,

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Speaker 1: she declined both physically and mentally as a result of

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Speaker 1: what she called a toxic, abusive culture that included weight shaming, overtraining,

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Speaker 1: and inappropriate behavior. Cain became yet another entry in a

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Speaker 1: long line of top female phenom runners whose careers were

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Speaker 1: stalled or ended by red S, a condition that impacts

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Speaker 1: in athletes metabolism, bone health, cardiovascular health, their mentoral cycle,

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Speaker 1: immune system, and mental health. In twenty nineteen, Cain released

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Speaker 1: an op ed with The New York Times revealing the

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Speaker 1: toxic culture perpetrated by some Salazar and the Nike organ Project.

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Speaker 1: She told CNN in twenty twenty four that before speaking

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Speaker 1: openly about the camp and her REDS diagnosis, she thought

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Speaker 1: quote I was the failure I couldn't handle it, but

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Speaker 1: that she finally came to understand the problem was a

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Speaker 1: system that celebrates under eating and overtraining. In twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: Salazar was handed a four year doping ban, later upheld

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Speaker 1: by the Court of Arbitration for Sport for trafficking testosterone

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Speaker 1: and tampering with doping controls while leading the Nike organ Project,

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Speaker 1: and then in twenty twenty one, he was permanently banned

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Speaker 1: from coaching by the US Center for Safe Sport for

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Speaker 1: sexual and emotional misconduct. Salazar has previously denied any wrongdoing.

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Speaker 1: Now friend of the show, Caera Goucher, was also a

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Speaker 1: Nike organ Project athlete, and she participated in the investigations

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Speaker 1: into both the doping and misconduct allegations against Salazar. I

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Speaker 1: highly recommend reading her book The Longest Race before diving

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Speaker 1: into Mary's book. The two compliment each other well, and

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Speaker 1: Kara's detailed fact check account with co author Mary Palan

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Speaker 1: of her experiences with Salazar really he sets the scene

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Speaker 1: for Mary's book and her own experience just a few

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Speaker 1: years later. One last thing before the interview, I want

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Speaker 1: to actually read the opening lines of Mary's book because

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Speaker 1: I think they make clear the anger that she now

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Speaker 1: has as an adult looking back at her childhood and teens.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to give a quick content warning.

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Speaker 1: There is a brief reference to suicidal thought. Quote. Nike

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Speaker 1: loves Steve Prefontaine because he's dead. They have immortalized his

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Speaker 1: face and ads stores are filled with photos of him

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Speaker 1: racing in an old school Oregon singlet. He is recognizable

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Speaker 1: to both running fans and sneaker heads alike, but he's

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Speaker 1: not here to object to the use of his name

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Speaker 1: and image by a multi billion dollar corporation that perpetuates abuse.

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Speaker 1: They could pretend he was theirs. Despite how he stood

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Speaker 1: against the exploitation of athletes, Nike will use his quotes

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Speaker 1: to prop up their culture of overtraining and win it

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Speaker 1: all costs mentalities. How does pre feel about it? We

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Speaker 1: can't ask him. He's dead. I sometimes wonder if I

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Speaker 1: had killed myself how much the running world would have

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Speaker 1: pretended to care. I don't want to boost my ego

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Speaker 1: and pretend I'd get the pre treatment. I'd be a

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Speaker 1: dead girl, not a dead man, less glory in being

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Speaker 1: a girl. It probably would have lasted a week, But

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Speaker 1: I do think Nike would have loved me, even just

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Speaker 1: for that week one or two splashy ads about mental

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Speaker 1: health with not so subtle implications that they really tried

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Speaker 1: to help me. But at least I died quote doing

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Speaker 1: what I loved. Then, despite my contract expiring or in

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Speaker 1: this case, me expiring, I'd randomly pop up over the

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Speaker 1: years in some remembrance of how they quote unquote almost

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Speaker 1: saved me buy our shoes. God, one woman actually did

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Speaker 1: write about almost saving me in her book, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't die. So how many current runners would have pretended

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Speaker 1: we were old pals? The same number who tried to

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Speaker 1: monetize my pain after my New York Times piece by

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Speaker 1: hitting up the podcast circuit, who sold books by naming

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Speaker 1: me as their friend, or worse men tee who pretended

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Speaker 1: they were an expert on mental health and chronic injury

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Speaker 1: and the issues they currently have or pretended they got over.

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Speaker 1: Probably all the same people who said shit behind my

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Speaker 1: back when I was a child, or to my face

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Speaker 1: or on the internet. So yeah, like almost all of them.

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Speaker 1: Does it count as talking behind someone's back if they're dead.

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Speaker 1: Some runners convince themselves that the litany of drugs they

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Speaker 1: take doesn't make them drug cheats. They can't even touch

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Speaker 1: their toes, but in their heads, their mental gymnastics bend

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Speaker 1: them so much that they can suck their own dicks.

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Speaker 1: I didn't die, and so unfortunately for everyone else, that

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Speaker 1: means I've been here, watching, listening and absorbing for the

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Speaker 1: last fifteen years. And you know what, you can ask

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Speaker 1: me how I feel about it. I can speak for myself.

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Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with Mary joining us now. She's a

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Speaker 1: professional mid distance runner, founder of Atalanta, NYC and nonprofit

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Speaker 1: that employs professional female runners to service mentors for young girls,

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Speaker 1: and a student at the Stanford University School of Medicine.

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Speaker 1: Her record breaking high school and professional running career included

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Speaker 1: becoming a twenty thirteen World Championships finalist in the fifteen

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Speaker 1: hundred meters, the twenty fourteen World Junior Champion in the

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Speaker 1: three thousand meters, and the winner of the prestigious Wannamaker

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Speaker 1: Mile at the Millrose Games. She shared her story of

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Speaker 1: abuse as a runner for the Nike organ Project in

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Speaker 1: a twenty nineteen New York Times video op ed, and

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Speaker 1: has since dedicated her career to driving change in sport.

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Speaker 1: She serves on the board of the assist and nonprofit

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Speaker 1: that brings awareness, accountability, and transparency to sexual violence against

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Speaker 1: athletes at all levels. And she's been on a billboard

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Speaker 1: in Times Square. She loves studying Greco Roman mythology. She

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Speaker 1: prefers running without headphones, which is wild, and her new

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Speaker 1: book This Is Not About Running hits shelves on April

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Speaker 1: twenty eighth. It's Mary Kine that bio is longer than

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Speaker 1: you are old. Hi? Mary, how are you?

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Speaker 2: Hi? And I mean, if it makes you feel any better.

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Speaker 2: I'm turning thirty, like in a week and a half,

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Speaker 2: so we're maybe not gonna be able to say that

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Speaker 2: for too long.

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Speaker 1: That's very true. Congrats on the book, Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. You know I shared the intro chapter

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Speaker 1: to the book before you joined, and wow, that is

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Speaker 1: one way to let folks know that the book is

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Speaker 1: going to be brutally honest. The gloves will be off.

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Speaker 1: Did you know you wanted that tone from the start

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Speaker 1: or did you find your voice while writing?

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Speaker 2: I think I always expected that the first chapter would

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Speaker 2: be different from subsequent chapters, and I think part of

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Speaker 2: it was because I've chosen to write the story from

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Speaker 2: the present tense and as a result, like, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of times where it's like twelve year old me

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Speaker 2: and fourteen year old me and sixteen year old me,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, you know, like adult me is

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Speaker 2: pretty angry. I want her to be able to say

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Speaker 2: her piece. And I felt in many ways that was

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Speaker 2: an important place to like kind of come up front

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Speaker 2: and express myself so that people understood throughout the story.

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Speaker 2: If there's times in which I'm sharing what I was

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Speaker 2: thinking at the time, it's not to say that I

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Speaker 2: agree with that or that I think that's good. It's

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Speaker 2: just more to kind of set the tone that that

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Speaker 2: is what a culture of abuse does to you, where

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Speaker 2: it kind of like traps you into this mindset where

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Speaker 2: anything that happens you almost blame yourself versus thinking, oh,

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Speaker 2: what is being done to me is problematic. So that

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Speaker 2: first chapter is kind of meant to remind the reader that, like,

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Speaker 2: do not worry. I have gone to therapy and I

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Speaker 2: have a righteous anger and I'm proud of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really powerful that way. The book kind of

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Speaker 1: reads like a diary. It's short chapters in chronological order,

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Speaker 1: and the first person present tense does allow for instead

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Speaker 1: of adult you looking back and making commentary about things. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it's the you of that age, reacting and responding as

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Speaker 1: things happen. It's pretty powerful. A lot of media these

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Speaker 1: days sort of leads people to water and then almost

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Speaker 1: drinks for them. It's like, and then here's what's happening,

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Speaker 1: and let me remind you again what's happening. And your

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Speaker 1: book is very different. You sort of flatly say some

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Speaker 1: very problematic and disturbing things that adults in your life

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Speaker 1: do with very little judgment because it comes from a

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Speaker 1: place of at that age not really understanding the depths

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Speaker 1: of the depravity that you were witnessed to. And that's

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Speaker 1: a powerful thing to allow the reader to be like, wait,

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Speaker 1: hold up, did she just say this happened? As opposed

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Speaker 1: to them saying and the reason that's bad is this.

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Speaker 1: That does mean that you have to respect the intelligence

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Speaker 1: of your reader, and maybe they won't always be there

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Speaker 1: with you in seeing things the way that you did

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Speaker 1: or in the way that they should. I just wonder,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking about other folks who have been

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Speaker 1: through this before or maybe even intersected with you, someone

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Speaker 1: like Kara Goucher, who we've had on the show who

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Speaker 1: had her own experience, Like, as you're in this media

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Speaker 1: rollout or as you were finishing the book, did you

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Speaker 1: feel like you needed to write anything to how those

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Speaker 1: folks maybe were misrepresented to you, Because the way that

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Speaker 1: you write about her experience with Alberto Salazar maybe isn't

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Speaker 1: exactly what happened. It's just what you were told by him.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And there's so many moments like that.

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Speaker 2: And I've since, like you know, personally talked to Kara

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Speaker 2: a little bit about that, because I think Karen in

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Speaker 2: particular was the most difficult person for me to write,

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Speaker 2: because I felt people understanding my kind of understanding of

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Speaker 2: her was really important because obviously the relationship that she

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Speaker 2: had with Alberto was so horrifying, But it's easy to

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Speaker 2: kind of have a hindsight bias and be like Mary

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Speaker 2: probably knew that at the time, instead of being like, no,

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Speaker 2: I had this very different perspective of what their relationship

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Speaker 2: probably was based on all of the things he was

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Speaker 2: telling me. And I kind of have the opinion that

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Speaker 2: my book will hopefully elevate opportunities for other people, and

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Speaker 2: that like now, I hope it encourages other people to

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Speaker 2: like go back and read Caro's book, if they never

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Speaker 2: have to kind of like see another woman's perspective and

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Speaker 2: her viewpoints from those times. And I'm kind of always

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Speaker 2: wary of being like inserting myself into other people's story

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Speaker 2: and being like, this is actually what happened to her,

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Speaker 2: because she's obviously done such a beautiful job of speaking

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Speaker 2: for herself, and so if anything, I would hope that

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Speaker 2: this kind of more passes the baton to her versus

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Speaker 2: than me kind of feeling like I need to correct

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Speaker 2: the record because she's already done a really great job

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Speaker 2: of that for herself.

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Speaker 1: Perfect track metaphor. You know, there were so many moments

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Speaker 1: throughout the book that I wanted to give you a hug,

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Speaker 1: or I wanted to tell off an immature adult for you.

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Speaker 1: It just felt like there wasn't much joy for you

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Speaker 1: and running, even as a middle and high schooler and

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Speaker 1: being a track athlete, a D one track athlete myself,

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Speaker 1: Like I got so much joy from the sport despite

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Speaker 1: how hard it could be. And I wonder how you

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Speaker 1: managed to find and separate the joy that running brought

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Speaker 1: you from the sadness the people in running caused you,

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Speaker 1: especially when you were young.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's a really great question and something

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Speaker 2: that I have been getting a lot of kind of

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Speaker 2: the like why did you run based on reading this book.

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Speaker 2: And I think part of that is because I've I've

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Speaker 2: always been someone who's like deeply process oriented, and any

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Speaker 2: goals that I have have just always been very internally motivated,

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Speaker 2: and they're not necessarily like I'm doing this for friends

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Speaker 2: or I'm doing this for glory or attention or like

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Speaker 2: insert the outcome. It's always kind of like a I

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Speaker 2: really like running, and I really like seeing how fast

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Speaker 2: I can go, and I just think that's like fun,

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Speaker 2: whether or not anybody ever watches me do it. And

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Speaker 2: so I think because I just always had that like

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Speaker 2: self driven curiosity, it made it so that kind of

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Speaker 2: like throughout I often was able to maintain the healthy

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Speaker 2: perspective of like, oh, everyone else is weird, but I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to let their weirdness affect me. And obviously

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Speaker 2: there's a certain point where that stopped because everyone was weird.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's a conversation that I still have now,

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Speaker 2: like even with my mom, right because I have kind

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Speaker 2: of gotten back into running a little bit and it's

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Speaker 2: very personal but there is kind of that question always

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Speaker 2: of like I kind of have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: intrigue to see, like what can I do now that

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Speaker 2: I like have corrected the long standing injury that made

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Speaker 2: it so I couldn't feel my foot, And like she'll

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Speaker 2: often kind of check in in a way where it's

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Speaker 2: like when you throw these little thoughts of like the

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Speaker 2: maybes out there, is that for you? Is that because

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Speaker 2: you feel you have to? Is that because you're like

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Speaker 2: any other reason other than just like your own curiosity?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, Nope, if I ever got on the

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Speaker 2: track again, I'd probably like wave at the kids, glare

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Speaker 2: at the adults, leave and go like I amolkshake. So

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Speaker 2: I I'm very kind of like the act of running

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Speaker 2: can be separated from the board of track and field.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break more with Mary Kine. Right

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Speaker 1: after this, I mentioned your New York Times video op

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Speaker 1: ed in which you shared your story from your pro career.

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Speaker 1: But this book is really the first time you're sharing

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Speaker 1: what happened to you before you even got to Nike.

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Speaker 1: You struggled a lot on your high school team with

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Speaker 1: unfriendly teammates, and they're jealous and racing obsessed parents. In

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Speaker 1: the book, you share that your team even went so

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Speaker 1: far as bailing on a major national competition team race,

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Speaker 1: thinking it would keep you from running in it, but

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Speaker 1: you were able to run solo. That feels like such

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Speaker 1: an extreme example of your teammates depriving themselves of something

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Speaker 1: just to harm you, almost an unbelievable example. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're reading the book can see all the stories

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Speaker 1: leading up to that moment. Why or how do you

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Speaker 1: think things got so bad there? Instead of just the

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Speaker 1: usual jealousies of a phenom, it went beyond that.

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Speaker 2: I think part of the problem was, honestly, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the parents of kids on my team were either

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Speaker 2: just kind of bluntly want to be runners themselves, and

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Speaker 2: incredibly wealthy people who were kind of used to just

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Speaker 2: getting what they wanted because they could probably in some

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Speaker 2: capacity like throw their name or connections or money around.

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Speaker 2: And here you have this like super nerdy kid rolling

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Speaker 2: up with like a frickin' duck pillow pet being like, Hi, everybody,

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Speaker 2: do you want to be my friend? I'm just like

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Speaker 2: weirdly not really talented and super hard working, and everyone's like,

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Speaker 2: can we buy her to get off the team now

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Speaker 2: they use to watch, and so I think those two

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Speaker 2: things kind of came to a head. But the truth is,

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Speaker 2: like Kirkus Reviews came out with a review this week,

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Speaker 2: and I like loved their last sentence because it was

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Speaker 2: something like, you know, even though this is almost like

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Speaker 2: so unbelievable in ways, it's so ordinary because I do

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Speaker 2: feel we all know the stories of like someone being

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Speaker 2: at a sports game and the parents screaming at them,

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Speaker 2: or the other coach making a kid cry, and like

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Speaker 2: it's not that foreign to us as athletes, but honestly,

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Speaker 2: people in any sort of like high performing field, like

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Speaker 2: there's the kind of lore always around helicopter parents. And

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Speaker 2: I think for me, I just was unlucky with the

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Speaker 2: people who I was around, because sometimes the kids who

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Speaker 2: are most protected from helicopter parents are the kids who

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Speaker 2: I don't know make it so their kids get to

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Speaker 2: be national champions. But for whatever reason, I was amongst

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Speaker 2: adults who were kind of bitter that I was faster

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Speaker 2: than them, and then you know, who knows what they

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Speaker 2: were saying to their kids at home, And it's part

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Speaker 2: of the reason I extend a lot of those kids

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Speaker 2: the grace of like making their name pseudonyms, so that

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Speaker 2: they have kind of like the privacy to hopefully like

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Speaker 2: become adults who don't pass this on to their kids.

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Speaker 2: But I think that is something that like the kids behavior,

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Speaker 2: I think always is stemming from the adults.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think one of the complications in a

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Speaker 1: sport like distance running is some of the most successful

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Speaker 1: folks are quite young, so the expectations and potential benefits

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Speaker 1: of being great start much younger. So the focus on

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Speaker 1: you was incredible when you started to become nationally known

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Speaker 1: for fast times the internet, adults everywhere we're talking about you,

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Speaker 1: and it's the equivalent of being the star of a

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Speaker 1: professional adult league. But you're a kid, and so the money,

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Speaker 1: the sponsorships, the fame, the attention can come much younger,

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Speaker 1: which causes people to treat you in a way that's

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Speaker 1: just not appropriate for a child. And it's hard to

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Speaker 1: read the way adults talked about you, insults, accusations, even

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Speaker 1: threats in running forums. How do you think it impacted

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Speaker 1: the way you saw the world of running and maybe

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Speaker 1: even what you felt was okay or acceptable to at

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Speaker 1: such a young age already see the way people talked

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Speaker 1: about you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think the good thing is that I

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Speaker 2: never read any of those horrible things written about me

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Speaker 2: and thought like, I guess that's what adulthood is. Like.

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Speaker 2: I always read them and was like wow, like this

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Speaker 2: adult man needs therapy. But I would That's not to

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Speaker 2: say it wouldn't still like affect me and think like, wow,

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Speaker 2: people in the sport really hate me, and I don't.

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Speaker 2: I honestly don't know why. But I remember even like

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Speaker 2: meeting one of my good friends. We were having a

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Speaker 2: conversation literally the first time I was ever talking to him,

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Speaker 2: and I said something and I was like, well, I

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Speaker 2: know I'm like kind of controversial and running because he's

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Speaker 2: a runner, and he was like, I don't think we

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Speaker 2: should use that world word. Let's use like polarizing. Was

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Speaker 2: like that is better. But the fact that you weren't like, no,

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Speaker 2: you're not is like pretty rough. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: I understand that adults. I think because the Internet has

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Speaker 2: made it so that there's kind of a degree of anonymity.

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes people feel more comfortable taking out their

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Speaker 2: like disappointment in insert whatever, out on other people. And

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Speaker 2: I think I was someone who I do look back

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Speaker 2: as I watched a lot of my old interviews and

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Speaker 2: stuff who was like very young, Like I was very bubbly,

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Speaker 2: I was very precocious. There was probably a stuffed animal.

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Speaker 2: I was probably excited to tell you about the milkshake

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Speaker 2: that I had. I was never acting like an adult,

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Speaker 2: Like I wasn't rolling up to these interviews in ways

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Speaker 2: that it's like you could ever have confused yourself. Let's

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Speaker 2: put it that way, Like it was pretty obvious how

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Speaker 2: young I was. And I say that because I think

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Speaker 2: that's so often a defense we kind of see in society,

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Speaker 2: where it's like something will happen and you know, the

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Speaker 2: adults in the room will be like, oh, they were

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Speaker 2: six feet tall. I thought they were a grown man,

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Speaker 2: And you're like, no, you didn't. That kid was a

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Speaker 2: freaking kid, and you made that choice to talk to

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Speaker 2: them in that way. And I think we've just kind

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Speaker 2: of normalize this idea that as soon as you're on

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Speaker 2: the internet in any capacity or fair game to talk

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Speaker 2: about cruelly. And I just find that so odd and

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Speaker 2: so sad, and I think we can do better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've been through a ton of it

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Speaker 1: from being a woman in a male dominated field, and

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Speaker 1: on ESPN for years, and it took me a long

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Speaker 1: time to stop making it about myself and to flip

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Speaker 1: it and say, not even I'm angry at these people,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sad for them. The reason that you behave

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Speaker 1: that way is a deep dissatisfaction with something going on

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Speaker 1: with yourself. I hope you get better, I hope you

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Speaker 1: get healed, because there is literally no reason to behave

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Speaker 1: in this way to me because you disagree with my

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Speaker 1: opinion on something, or even more often, just because I exist,

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Speaker 1: which really feels like what was happening to you. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't even I'm jealous or mad that she's so fast.

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Speaker 1: It's like I don't want her to be here, and

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Speaker 1: so my response is to lash out in a way

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Speaker 1: that's completely unrelated to anything she has said or done.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know you had to learn that

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Speaker 1: younger than most people, because you weren't an over night success,

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Speaker 1: but you started to break through in a way that

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Speaker 1: was you didn't have time to slowly adjust. It was

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Speaker 1: just all of a sudden, everybody knows this name in

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Speaker 1: this time. And you also had to learn about a

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Speaker 1: business that's essentially one for adults, but started to involve

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Speaker 1: you very young. And one of the things you write

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Speaker 1: about in the book is these hot girl contracts. I've

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Speaker 1: talked about this plaguing women's sports for decades, but I've

400
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Speaker 1: also dealt with it in my own industry, and I

401
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Speaker 1: wonder if you can share first what those are and

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Speaker 1: then how it impacted you to know immediately as you

403
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Speaker 1: entered this field it's not all about the running.

404
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that was one of those topics that

405
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Speaker 2: I was like, every single woman attached to sport or

406
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Speaker 2: in so many industries is immediately going to be like yes.

407
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Speaker 2: And yet it was probably actually the scariest thing for

408
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Speaker 2: me to write about because I think so often there

409
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Speaker 2: is this kind of culture I think right now in

410
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Speaker 2: women's sport that if you say literally anything negative kind

411
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Speaker 2: of about like women tangentially, then it's kind of this

412
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Speaker 2: oh my god, like you're bad. It's like if you

413
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Speaker 2: name somebody for like being really mean to you, it's

414
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Speaker 2: like you're somehow therefore not supporting other women instead of

415
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Speaker 2: being like, well, this woman hit me, Like I think,

416
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 2: I think that's pretty bad. But I I say all

417
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Speaker 2: that inso much as like the concept of the hot

418
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Speaker 2: girl contract for me and how I always understood it

419
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Speaker 2: is that in sports marketing, the people who are controlling

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Speaker 2: contracts are pretty much all men. Most of them have

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Speaker 2: like a token woman who they like sexually harassed, or

422
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Speaker 2: at least they did back in my day, which was

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Speaker 2: you know, like two seconds ago, and otherwise it's like

424
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Speaker 2: all these dudes who like control who's actually getting paid.

425
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Speaker 2: And there was the like not so you know, quiet secret,

426
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Speaker 2: because at least at Nike, they would talk very explicitly

427
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Speaker 2: about this that like some of the people who they

428
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Speaker 2: were like quote unquote paying to be professional female athletes,

429
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Speaker 2: they were just signing because they were hot. And that

430
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Speaker 2: was always very difficult to kind of understand in my mind,

431
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Speaker 2: partly because then the standards that were being used against

432
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Speaker 2: me when there was talks of like having a pay

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Speaker 2: cut or getting terminated or anything where it was this

434
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 2: kind of like machisimo, like it's just a business, you're

435
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 2: just not fast, But there's kind of this undercurrent of

436
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 2: like you'ves explicitly said you only sign this woman because

437
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 2: she posts like countless, you know, photos in her sports brand.

438
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: You just kind of want her around and she's slower

439
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 2: than I am, but you're cutting me because I'm slow, Like,

440
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 2: clearly you don't think I'm attractive in.

441
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: That sort of way.

442
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: And I talk in my memoir a little bit about

443
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 2: like the idea of jealousy and how like jealousy is normal,

444
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: and so of course in these situations, I think where

445
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: people get defensive is they're like, oh, like Mary's mad

446
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: at this other woman just because she was hot, And

447
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, no, no. If that's how that woman's

448
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: making money, in some ways, good for her, right, Like

449
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: she can choose what she wants to do. But the

450
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: problem is, is it really a choice for women? Are

451
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,959
Speaker 2: we really being empowered as women if we intellectually understand

452
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: that if I go on Instagram right now and I

453
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: start posting photos of me every single day in a

454
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: sports bra, i am going to get more followers, and

455
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 2: therefore I'm going to make more money. There's a certain

456
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 2: point where I'm kind of like, is that choice or

457
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: are we feeding into a system where it's men controlling

458
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: money and we're just playing the game that they want

459
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: us to play.

460
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've always said, don't hate the player, hate the game.

461
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: I try not to hold it against women if they're

462
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: trying to operate and succeed in a system that was

463
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: built to wrong them. I hold it against the system

464
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: and try to fix the system. But I also think

465
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: there is this fine line, and sometimes we might even

466
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: not judge it correctly. But I always look at folks

467
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: and say, I feel like that woman is empowered and

468
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 1: her sexuality and her control of herself and her body

469
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: makes me feel good, Versus I feel like that woman

470
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: is being exploited and the way she's behaving doesn't make

471
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: me feel like she's in control of it. And that

472
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: fine line is very difficult. But I think my day,

473
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 1: which is a lot more than two seconds ago, there

474
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: was a lot more exploitation and now there's a lot

475
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: more empowerment. And when I see a woman or a

476
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: campaign that feels wrong, I go, no, no, we're not

477
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: doing this anymore. You can still have your hot girl,

478
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: but you have to present her in a way that

479
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: feels good to women, not in this way anymore. And

480
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: the fact that we push back on that so often

481
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: now is progress from what it used to be. But yeah,

482
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: I mean the problem is still there that it's not

483
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: really so much a choice as it is just choosing

484
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: to make less money and retain your integrity if that's

485
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: not your damn or you know, go on only fans

486
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: and sell your parts or something whatever anyone wants to

487
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: do to make it through. I think I read the

488
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: book in I saw and understood why you had so

489
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: much trouble trusting people. Mostly just your parents were on

490
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: your side, seeing things the way that you did in

491
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: a couple other people, but for the most part you

492
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: had a me against the world perception. But you did

493
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: have this outsized amount of trust and belief in coach

494
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: Alberto Salazar and his Nike organ project. It was a

495
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: massive privilege and an honor to be invited to join,

496
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: to be a part of his team, to be trained

497
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: by him. You even skip the NCAA system to go

498
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: pro with him right after high school, which I think

499
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: speaks to the legend of Alberto right The aura that

500
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: he had in the running world made him someone that

501
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: you saw as outside of maybe the trepidation you had

502
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: around other folks in the running world when you joined.

503
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: What was the future you imagined for yourself?

504
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when I signed with Alberto, I really

505
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 2: saw my career as being essentially what Galen's was, insomuch

506
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: as it was going to be this like lifelong partnership

507
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: where you know, you start as a high schooler and

508
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 2: you know, I write a little bit about this in

509
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: the book. But like Galen and Alberto's relationship, Galen Rupp, Yes,

510
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: Galen rep it was it was really boundaryless inso much

511
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: as like where coaching started and ended versus someone who

512
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 2: would like low key break into your house and randomly

513
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: just be there. Was murky because it was it was

514
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: an all the time thing. And I'll always remember one

515
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: time Galen saying to me like, I'm so grateful Alberto

516
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: took you on, because now he's like off my back

517
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: a little bit more. And I was like, if this

518
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: is off your back a little bit more, then oh

519
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: my gosh, what was more. But I say all of

520
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: that because I and it's sad looking back because now

521
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 2: I find it all so creepy. But at the time

522
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: I thought like, wow, this is like a family, Like

523
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: this is somebody who will really like actually care about

524
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: you and like want to be involved in your life.

525
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: And I think I think I now look back on

526
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 2: those relationships and I'm like, no, he kind of said

527
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: a lot of like me things about Galen's wife, and

528
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 2: he made a lot of really in inappropriate comments, and

529
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: there's a lot of ways where I'm like, I don't know,

530
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: did you really love him as a person outside of running?

531
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: But at least the naivete that I brought into the

532
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: relationship having just had such a horrible, like high school experience,

533
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: made me like romanticize the idea of like team and

534
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: family as a team. And I think we, you know,

535
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: kind of sell that to kids as like part of

536
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: the joy of sports is like you're going to have family,

537
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 2: And it's like as soon as there is any drama

538
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 2: or any issues, we're kind of unequipped to deal with it,

539
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: let alone. When it becomes like my relationship with Alberto.

540
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think to the point of like his aura,

541
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: you accept behavior that somewhere in your core you know

542
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: is wrong, because bigger than that is this belief and

543
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: trust in someone who has proven success and who it's

544
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: supposed to be an honor to be led by. And

545
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: watching you lose faith in yourself and be Gasolin enough

546
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: to no longer trust yourself was really hard. You know,

547
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: at a certain point you're training with him, he convinces

548
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: you you need to lose weight, He encourages birth control, diuretics,

549
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: crazy calorie counting, You become underfueled, overtrained, You start crying

550
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: all the time at practice. You know, before then, you

551
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: seem so strong and sure of things. Throughout the book,

552
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: you talk about your stance on never doping, your ability

553
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: to be brave in the face of disrespectful adults even

554
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: when you're just a kid. But in that moment you

555
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: start crashing out. And at any point before the full

556
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: departure from his team, did you doubt him instead of

557
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: yourself or did it take a full removal from the

558
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: situation to have enough perspective to say, wait, that was

559
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: not about me.

560
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it really ultimately took a full removal

561
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 2: because I think any time that I started to fill doubt,

562
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: he honestly did a pretty good job of course correcting.

563
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: So like, for example, the only thing that made me

564
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: own SNA go pro was Alberto kind of like announced

565
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: that he was going to take on a Russian athlete

566
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: who had filled a doping test named Anna Almanova, and

567
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: also take on Shannon Robery, who, like I had teammates

568
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: who had been teammates with before and were like, I

569
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: never want to train with this woman again. She's a

570
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: horrible teammates. She's really mean, Like these people are telling

571
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: me like all sorts of stuff that's making me be

572
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: like we have this like great thing going here. I've

573
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: had bad teammates before, Like I don't want to train

574
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: with a doper. I don't want to train with a

575
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: woman who's mean, Like you know, this feels like kind

576
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: of like no brainer situations. And I think I was

577
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: so upset with Alberto for honestly bringing both of them on,

578
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: but at least with Anna Almanova when they ended up

579
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: like sending her back to Russia because they like learned

580
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: months before about like the Russian doping scandal, Like there

581
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 2: was kind of this like acknowledgment. There was a pseudo

582
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: apology of like you were right. And I think he

583
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: handled that lunch where we had this conversation so well

584
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: in my mind that I was like, Okay, I was

585
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: starting to doubt you. I was starting to question if

586
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: you cared about like drugs honestly, and I doubted all

587
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: of my teammates about like their kind of priority of

588
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: clean sport. But Alberto at least kind of like rebranded

589
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: it in a way that was very like, oh, you're

590
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: so smart Mary, like you Clockwright, It's like, thank you,

591
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: you were looking out for us. And so then I

592
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, Alberto.

593
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: Loves me again.

594
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: Master manipulator, master manipulator. He was really good at doing that,

595
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,719
Speaker 2: and I think he was very good at like seeing

596
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: the moments that I was starting to slip and pull

597
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: me back. And it was the same thing even like

598
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: during the year that I was falling apart, Like there

599
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: would be these moments where even though it was like

600
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: ninety percent negative, there would be that ten percent of like,

601
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: oh my god, you look amazing today. Wow, this is

602
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: what you're gonna like, this is when you're gonna be great.

603
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: So I think having that kind of carrot made it

604
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: so that, like with Alberto specifically, it wasn't until the

605
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: usadapiece came out that I actually really was like, oh geez,

606
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: I need to rewire things. That's not true though for

607
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: anyone else, for pretty much all of my teammates, for

608
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: pretty much all of the other coaches, I was like,

609
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: what the heck is wrong with you guys, Like you're

610
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: never giving me that ca like you're never pulling me

611
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 2: back up. And I remember even when kind of like

612
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: before I left the organ project, I like said to

613
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: Alberto pretty explicitly, like I'm only still here because of you,

614
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: because I think in my mind, I was like, I

615
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: think a lot of these other people are potentially interested

616
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: in doing drugs, but Alberto doesn't know that, or Alberto

617
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: doesn't want that, Like right, I had this like real

618
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: he was the last like thread.

619
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's very common in situations where

620
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: someone has been groomed, especially from a very young age,

621
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: and that's part of the gaslighting, that's part of the manipulation,

622
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: is to make sure that that person is the shining

623
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: light and they are right and they're good, and you

624
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: are failing them, and I want to get to the band,

625
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: but quickly I do want to ask, because you know,

626
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: at the lowest point of this training, you have suicidal thoughts,

627
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: you're cutting yourself, You're breaking down all the time. In practice,

628
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: you've got broken bones, you didn't have your period for

629
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: three years. Alberto is taking you to doctors, not letting

630
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: you see results, telling you things are fine, even though

631
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: you don't feel that way. You finally go to another

632
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: doctor outside of Alberto's purview. You realize you have a

633
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: serious injury. Not just the shin splints that he's forcing

634
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: you to train through. You go home. Even after you

635
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: get home, you realize that you have serious bone issues,

636
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: that you have really damaged your body. This, you know,

637
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: red as relative energy deficiency in sport, which is what

638
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: we now understand is very common in a lot of sports,

639
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: par particularly distance running, where you're overtraining and you're underfueled.

640
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: This idea that getting smaller and smaller will help until

641
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: your whole body falls apart and then you can't run

642
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: or walk. You have all of this going on, and

643
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: now that you're out of Alberto's world and you realize

644
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: that what was going on there was wrong. How validating

645
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: was the ban? Not just what was happening to me

646
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: was wrong, but what he was doing and who he

647
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: was was wrong. That must have been just an incredible

648
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: weight off your shoulders and a redirecting and rewiring of

649
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: your brain of the way you saw everything that had happened.

650
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. I don't think the

651
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 2: anti doping ban felt that way. I think the anti

652
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 2: doping ban i'm grateful for because it helped me, like

653
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: start to realize things were bad, and it's why I

654
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: did the New York Times piece and it's why, like

655
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: everything precipitated, So I think that was kind of like

656
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: like a super positive reaction. And then I think the

657
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: Safe Sport life ban was incredibly impactful, but I think

658
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: it was actually I think that was one of the

659
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: saddest days is that I've had in the years post

660
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 2: the New York Times piece coming out, was the day

661
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: that I read the Safe Sport report because I did

662
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: not know that there were like accusations from kra of

663
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: sexual assault by Alberto and it was so deeply lonely

664
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 2: to like read that post, like it was like this

665
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: whole document that you know, those of us who were

666
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 2: involved were sent. It was literally just a crying on

667
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 2: a bathroom floor. And as I was reading it, like

668
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: the whole time, I was like, I didn't know this,

669
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 2: and I had told the Safe Sport reporters like so

670
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: many different things and admittedly, like there's a lot of

671
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: stories that are not in this book, and I think,

672
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: if anything, I actually didn't feel particularly believed initially because

673
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 2: the way the report was, it was clear that they

674
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 2: had interviewed like almost all of my past teammates who

675
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: just kind of denied most of my allegations, Like I

676
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: think a few of them were like a little scared

677
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 2: and didn't feel comfortable lying that much. But my specific

678
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 2: like claims were thrown out initially, and I think part

679
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: of it in retrospect in talking to the Center was

680
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: they were just like Carrie's claims, they just kind of

681
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: focused on because they ended up throwing out the other athletes'

682
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,439
Speaker 2: claims who had like insanely powerful claims. So the whole

683
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: thing was kind of just, I think, really fumbled by

684
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: Safe Sport. But I think it's taken time for me

685
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 2: to feel empowered by that specific document, and I think

686
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 2: that's very normal. I think it's in the same way

687
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: that almost any you know, judicial legal enforcement thing is.

688
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: I always kind of warned people who are going through

689
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 2: the process that, like, even if you kind of quote

690
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: unquote when you're not going to feel very good afterwards,

691
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: because it never negates what happened, and it's actually usually

692
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: the other person just streaming and having a bunch of

693
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: other people scream that you're a liar. You're a liar,

694
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: you're a liar, and even though you know you're not,

695
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: that's not like the most empowering thing to go through

696
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: even if some people you agree with you. Yeah, I

697
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: think to me the safe spoort thing was actually more

698
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: validating because I was like, we have two other women

699
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: who are like I also went through something, and then

700
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 2: that ultimately at least sent me down a path to

701
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 2: be able to do like a different type of therapy.

702
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's a lot of shame and self

703
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: blame that comes, even if logically you know that that's

704
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: not true, that is so internalized deep within you over

705
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: the course of the time that it's going on that

706
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: by the time you get out of it, you still

707
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: have to process that much longer than maybe that ruling

708
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: will do for you. And then the ruling brings more

709
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: attention and more doubters and more people's opinions and all

710
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 1: of that as well. So that is very enjoyable. I'm

711
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: glad that you feel like you've gotten to a point

712
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: where some of that weight is off. But yeah, you're right,

713
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: it takes time. It's not an instant validation. You know,

714
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,959
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier that there's a part of the book

715
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: when you write about like jealousy and the feelings that

716
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: you have and your control of them. And I have

717
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: to say I'm like, really, it's a really meaningful part

718
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: to me because I think a lot about people not

719
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: giving themselves time for self reflection, for meditation, learning how

720
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: to self regulate and control reactions. And you write about that,

721
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: and you write about how you understand feeling jealous or

722
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: feeling angry. But the goal is to not be mad

723
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: at the people who cause those emotions in you, but

724
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: to understand why you're feeling them, gain control of them,

725
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: decide how you want to react to them, which is

726
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: such a powerful thing. And it feels like you have

727
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: gone through a lot of therapy to understand yourself and

728
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: to be able to see your story differently than maybe

729
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: as something you're a victim of, but rather as something

730
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: who made you into who you are today. And I

731
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: want to know who you are because you're not Marykin

732
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: Phenom child Runner. You are potentially future Mary Kane, doctor

733
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: Mary Kane. But who are you? What do you want

734
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: people to think about you now? Having read this book

735
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: and knowing your story.

736
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: I think I want to be known as someone who's

737
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: deeply honest. And I think, sort of tragically that kind

738
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: of right now in today's society, I think equates too

739
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 2: courageous and I only say tragically because I think there

740
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: should be a standard where we're all deeply honest instead

741
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 2: of it being like, wow, how are you so brave

742
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: to like speak truth? But I think the reason that

743
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: it is considered brave is because you know, there's like

744
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 2: a lot of people who I name in this book,

745
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of people who are not

746
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: happy that they are named in this book. And rather

747
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 2: than reflecting hmm, maybe I should have behaved different, there's

748
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: more of a like, you know, tendency, and this is

749
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 2: true for a lot of people to try to pick

750
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: out any little thing and be like, you said, this

751
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: happened on a Tuesday. It happened on a Wednesday, like

752
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: you're a lying hoe, And I'm like, no, that's not

753
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: how this works. I'm not scared of you, bully anymore.

754
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: But I think there is this kind of standard in

755
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 2: which victims are held to, like this perfection standard, And

756
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: a lot of it has to do with like legal stuff,

757
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: where like lawyers are horrible and they try to you know,

758
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: gaslight people all the time. And I think I am

759
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 2: just at a place in my life where I'm kind

760
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: of back to my like inner child, where I'm just

761
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 2: like a deeply confident, self confident person, and so I'm

762
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: in a privileged position where, like I can just be

763
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: honest because when I get the angry emails, yes, is

764
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: it like emotionally really frying, And yes, do I need

765
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: to go to therapy? So I can like handle that,

766
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: of course, But it's also something that like I can

767
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 2: handle partly because I'm not really ever going to be

768
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: in that world in the same way. Even if I

769
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: ever run again, I have no interest in playing in

770
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 2: that sand pit, because I don't think it's actually changed

771
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 2: that much, like, based on all of the things that

772
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: I have like honestly even helped had to deal with

773
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: in like the launch of this book and just all

774
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: the random pettiness, you're just kind of like.

775
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, being a doctor's way easier exactly exactly.

776
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: But I think, I mean, I think part of the

777
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 2: thing about medicine is at its core, it's a field

778
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: that is built to care for others. And I think

779
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: so often people in sport like meaning particularly people who

780
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: are like in the professional side of this. I'm not

781
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: talking about people who are like grassroots or community like.

782
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: People who are really in the professional world kind of

783
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: act like they're as important as a doctor, and I'm like,

784
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: you're not helping anyone, Like you're kind of high key

785
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: just like running around and seeing how fast you can

786
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 2: go and then acting like it's the end of the world.

787
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: And I'm guilty as anyone of doing that. But I

788
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 2: think that kind of like meaningless pursuit only means something

789
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 2: if you make it mean something, So it like only

790
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: means something if then you're like standing up and being like,

791
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 2: let's talk about healthy sport, let's talk about ending abuse,

792
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 2: let's talk about empower women, like insert whatever the thing

793
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: is that has meaning. And so I hope, you know,

794
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: I will be remembered in some ways as someone who

795
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: had influence, not as an influencer.

796
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that last question for you. What does

797
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: running look like for you? Now? I know you switched

798
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: national allegiances from the US to Ireland, but like as

799
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: far as the future or competition or just finding join it,

800
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: what does it look like?

801
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been really fun. Over the course of the

802
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,919
Speaker 2: last year, I think I finally kind of just sat

803
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: down with myself and was like, Okay, I want to

804
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: be physically in a position that if I want to try,

805
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: I can, And I think I've been doing like all

806
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 2: the pt I've been doing all of the even just

807
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 2: kind of like therapy work to be in a position

808
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 2: where like I go out and run, you know, half

809
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 2: the week, I cross train half the week, and like

810
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: I'm by no means deciding to do anything yet like

811
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: next year I'm going to be in clerkships and I'm

812
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: going to be like in the hospital running around all

813
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: the time. But I kind of just liked the idea

814
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: of like getting my body just like truly healthy again

815
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 2: and then anything from there cool. And maybe that's just

816
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 2: I continue to do exactly what I'm doing. I'm sure

817
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: there's gonna be periods in my life where it's a

818
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 2: heck of a lot less than I'm doing right now.

819
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: But if one day I kind of am like, ah,

820
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: like I can represent Ireland, then like the options open,

821
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 2: but it will always be that will always be a

822
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: nude chapter that will not be related to this chapter before.

823
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 1: Is it Ireland? Because you don't want to represent the US?

824
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 1: Or what was the change?

825
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: I had had enough instances I didn't feel and I

826
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 2: was told essentially that there was no guarantee that there

827
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: would be protection against people who had threatened me. In

828
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: different capacities, and that's really disheartening to hear from you know,

829
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 2: your national organization that it's not equipped to help you,

830
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: partly based on the sponsor that they have. And so

831
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: I just felt at the time that I made the change.

832
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: It's kind of like I don't know if I'm ever

833
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: going to do anything, but I kind of like the

834
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 2: idea of knowing that I like it's a choice. Like

835
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: if I choose not to, it's because I chose not

836
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 2: to and was just like having a blast in medicine

837
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 2: and like didn't want to take a step out year.

838
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: But if I choose to, I'd love to do it

839
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: with people who I don't know just like never mistreated

840
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: me and want me there and want to protect me.

841
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: And the truth is like a lot of USA Track

842
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: and Field, they're the same cast of characters who would

843
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: just like see me walk off into a room with

844
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: Alberto alone and like not really blink an eye. And

845
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: so I just I think I respect myself and I

846
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: respect my safety too much not to be like, oh

847
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: my gosh, I'm like really proudly Irish and I already

848
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: have citizenship, so like makes sense why not have some

849
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 2: joy in life?

850
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. I just love at every turn

851
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: how you're taking control of your story, your truth, your narrative,

852
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 1: your perspective. It's a really powerful thing to do after

853
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: what happened to you. And the book is really fantastic

854
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: and I hope you have great success with it. So

855
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: thanks for talking to us.

856
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

857
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Mary for sitting down with us. And

858
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: don't forget. You can now watch full length Good Game

859
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: interviews on the Iheartwomen's Sports YouTube channel, so go on

860
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: over there and subscribe. We got to take another break.

861
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: When we return, a friend of the show announces a comeback.

862
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: Welcome back, slashays. We love that you're listening, but we

863
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: want you to get in the game every day too,

864
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: So here's our good game play of the day. Pick

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Speaker 1: up a copy of Mary's memoir This is Not about Running.

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00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,959
Speaker 1: We'll link to it in the show notes. And while

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00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: you're at it, we mentioned it in the interview, but

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00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: make sure to check out Kara Goucher's book The Longest

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00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: Race as well. We'll link to that too. We always

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00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: love to hear from you, so hit us up on email.

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00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: Good Game at Wondermediaetwork dot com or leave us a

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00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty seventy

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00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: and y'all don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. It's

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00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: real easy. Watch the news that another outspoken track and

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00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 1: field legend is making a comeback. Rating five Olympic appearances

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00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: and counting review y'all. On Monday, we read the rewords

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00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,959
Speaker 1: that never would have made our twenty twenty six bango card.

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00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: Alison Felix comeback. Felix, the most decorated female track athlete

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00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: in Olympic history, announced that she's planning to make a

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00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 1: return into competition, with her site set on the twenty

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00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 1: twenty eight LA Olympics. In a story in time, feel

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00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: excited how seeing athletes like Lindsay Vaughn, Tom Brady and

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00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: Lebron James have success in their forties made her revisit

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00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: her own assumptions and expectations. Quote. So many of us

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00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: have been told not to do the big, bold thing.

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00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: You know, at this age, I should probably be staying

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00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: home and taking care of my kids doing all that,

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00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 1: And just why not, Let's flip it on its head,

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00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: Let's go after the thing. Let's be vulnerable. End quote. Yes,

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00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: we love to see it and actually, looking back on

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00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: the last time she was on the show talking about

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00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: doing hill workouts and can while the rest of Sport

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00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: Beach was sipin' spritzes, she still got a dinner. We

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00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: should have known. We'll link to the full time story

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. Now it's your turn, rate and review.

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00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good Game, Mary, Good Game,

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00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: Allison and Kara and Alicia Montano and every other athlete

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00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 1: who has called out Nike's policies. Few to the culture

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00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: that allows this type of behavior to go unchecked for

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00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: so long. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart

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00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

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00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,

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00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: our producers are Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier. Our executive

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00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.

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00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Lucy Jones, Britney Martinez, and

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00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your

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Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain,