1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:09,159 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading. 5 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Met, 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: my name is Noelah. 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 3: super producer Paul. Mission control decands, most importantly, you are you, 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 3: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 3: don't want you to know. Demonic possession. It's a hot 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: button issue for many people, skeptics and true believers alike, 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 3: and many of us listening along today have perhaps experienced 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 3: some things they cannot explain. In tonight's interview set, we 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 3: are returning to stories of possession and directly stories of exorcism. Now, 15 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 3: before we dive into our conversation, we want to air 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: the following disclaimer. This does include discussion of faith, and 17 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 3: we do not interrogate people's faith. As we always say, 18 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: your spiritual beliefs remain your own. But fellow conspiracy realist 19 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 3: Matt Noll and I just recently heard perhaps the best 20 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 3: investigation of exorcisms that we have ever heard in the 21 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: world of podcasting, and so we wanted to ask the 22 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: creator himself about this show. Please join us in welcoming 23 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 3: Ryan Bethay to the show. Thank you for coming on 24 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 3: the show right. 25 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me, y'all. It's exciting to be here. Ryan. 26 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: You do a lot in your world. We have here 27 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: some writings about your the various things you do. You're 28 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: a producer, you're a writer, you're an entrepreneur, so you 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: do all kinds of different things. Can you just describe 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: to us your previous work before creating The Exorcist Files. 31 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 4: I like that, punt to me. That's good. That was good. Yeah. 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 4: So yeah, I as I'm a self proclaimed entrepreneur, producer, 33 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 4: and writer, whether someone else calls me that. Although you 34 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 4: just called me a creator as well, so I might 35 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 4: might adopt that. But yeah, I've been in film and 36 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 4: TV for a long time. Pod that is actually my 37 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 4: first podcast of this type. And if you the funny 38 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 4: thing about this entire journey is that if you had 39 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 4: asked me ten years ago would you end up investigating exorcism? 40 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 4: I would have accused you of being possessed. This is 41 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 4: not something I planned that too. But I'm just I'm 42 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 4: I am a marketer by trade. I love sales and marketing, 43 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 4: and I love just helping people find the ability to 44 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 4: tell their story. That's fundamental what we do. The irony 45 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 4: of this whole thing is, despite how dark of a 46 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 4: podcast this is, I actually make most of my income 47 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 4: making comedy videos for brands, So there is a nice 48 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 4: little you know, by day versus by night. So I 49 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 4: do have a Bruce Wayne sort of Batman thing going 50 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 4: on here. If Batman was like more upbeat. 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 3: Right right, classic emo superhero Batman. 52 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 4: That's right, yeah, yeah, the billion minus. 53 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 3: Well for now, so we've we've also been looking at 54 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: some of the some of the previous work you mentioned, 55 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: watch what your kids watch, Scary fans, you know, the 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: Dinner Disaster, which is on YouTube please check it out. 57 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: And a lovely, lovely conversation series you have with celebrities 58 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: in around a campfire. And you're right, ten years ago, 59 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 3: from at least what we understand, it would have it 60 00:03:53,840 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 3: would have seemed odd that you would create one of 61 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: the best deep dive examinations into Catholic exorcism on the planet, 62 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 3: and you have. Could you tell us a little bit 63 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: about the origin of the Exorcist files, Your initial inspiration like, 64 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 3: did you have a personal upbringing in Catholicism? Did you 65 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: have a standing fascination with saints? 66 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 4: So what makes this interesting is that I did not 67 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 4: grow up Catholic, and I'm actually not a practicing Catholic, 68 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 4: which I also do think lends a certain objectivity to 69 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 4: it that makes I think shows up in it, and 70 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 4: I do have to give a shout out. Obviously, this 71 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 4: podcast was made possible by two other people as well, 72 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 4: the notorious Father Martin's whose case files we actually share 73 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 4: in our illustrious editor, sound designer, mixer, co producer. He 74 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: basically did all the incredible sound design and also all 75 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 4: the research and just did such a phenomenal job. Chandler, 76 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 4: who you all know, and it was such an awesome 77 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 4: some collaboration. But I did not grow up particularly religious, 78 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 4: and the way I got into this whole thing is 79 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 4: actually probably more interesting than the podcast itself. So I 80 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 4: actually originally was fascinated with the concept of miracles. I've 81 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 4: always been interested in these accounts of miraculous things that 82 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 4: have no explanation, like when the doctor's like you had 83 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 4: a tumor, and then the imaging shows that a week later, 84 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 4: after some prayer session, there is no more tumor. And 85 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 4: I've heard of these stories from very credible people, and 86 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 4: I'd seen some of the medical imaging myself, very rare. 87 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 4: But what I actually discovered was, as I was researching this, 88 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 4: the Catholic Church has a process for which for the 89 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 4: canonization of saints, and to be a saints, you have 90 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 4: to have these miracles associated with you, and there's an 91 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: extraordinarily rigorous process that goes into determining whether or not 92 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 4: a bona fide physical theological miracle. So it can't just 93 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 4: be accidentally got a physical miracle. It's actually got to 94 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 4: be tied to intercession or prayer with that particular would 95 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 4: be saint. And so got I managed to have a 96 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 4: meet someone who was very connected at the Vatican, flew 97 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 4: out there and with another producer friend of mine, and 98 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 4: basically that's what we were waiting around hotel room. We 99 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 4: never knew. It was sort of like a CIA meeting. 100 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 4: You don't know when you're going to be called in, 101 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 4: when you'll go. We were escorted into this room and 102 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 4: this priest basically said, you know, I don't think you're 103 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 4: going to be able to do this miracle show because 104 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 4: the medical records are very hard to get. I said, well, 105 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 4: that's unfortunate, considering how far I just flew out to Rome. 106 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 4: Maybe a call would have sufficed. But he goes, but 107 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 4: would you be interested in speaking with someone who is 108 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 4: one of our top exorcists and experts on spiritual warfare? 109 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 4: And I went, yes, that sounds great. So he gave 110 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 4: me Father Martin's and I called Father Martins. And you know, 111 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 4: it's interesting. I didn't know this until about three months ago. 112 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 4: I assumed we hit it off right away. He has 113 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 4: shared now multiple times in panels that he thought I 114 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 4: was lying and had stolen his number from somewhere and 115 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 4: was trying to get to him so I could get 116 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 4: his case files. So I called him. He said, where'd 117 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 4: you get this number? Because obviously exorcists are, you know, 118 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 4: usually hard to get a hold of. Understandably, you know, 119 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 4: they get a lot in down calls. So he then 120 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 4: he called up the Holy See and asked this priest 121 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 4: and said, did you give out my numbers? Like yeah, 122 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 4: I really like this kid. I like his vision for 123 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 4: what he wants to do. Hear him out, and so 124 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 4: Father called back and he goes, I don't know what 125 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 4: you did, or how much money you bribed or whatever. 126 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 4: He's like, but man, you got something. He's like, they're 127 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 4: asking me to take you seriously. And so I said, 128 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 4: you want to do a show about exorcism? He's like, no, 129 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 4: I went help father. Do you think Ouiji boards are dangerous? Absolutely? 130 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 4: Do you think the occult is a reality? I do. 131 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 4: Do you think that satanic abuse and dark forces are 132 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 4: at work in the world today? I do? Then why 133 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 4: don't you tell that story? Let me help you tell 134 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 4: that story, and let the listener decide. And he goes, 135 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 4: all right, I'll give you some thought. And it took 136 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 4: a lot more convincing. I'm condensing it for our listening enjoyment. 137 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 4: But it took quite a few sessions with me to 138 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 4: get him to relents. But finally he said, all right, 139 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 4: And I'm so grateful for how it turned out. We 140 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 4: just couldn't have asked for a better team. My heart 141 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 4: was a great partner. And yeah, you've heard it. It 142 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 4: is the weirdest stuff. And of course, the first time 143 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 4: you meet an exorcist, you immediately ask him what is 144 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 4: the strangest thing you've ever seen? And he shared a 145 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 4: few things, and I said, I think we can work 146 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 4: with this. So that's how it started. 147 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: Wow, can we talk about some baseline stuff when it 148 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 2: comes to exorcisms, the state of or at least the 149 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 2: way Father Martin's views the functionality of things like heaven 150 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: and Hell and Earth and all of that. When the 151 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: second case that you cover, Father Martin's talks about hell, 152 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: like where Hell is or what hell is? The nature 153 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: of hell? Can you tell us a little bit about 154 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: how he views it. 155 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. So one of the interesting things too about the podcast, 156 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 4: right is so it is told from a Catholic priest 157 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 4: vantage point, but we do try to take great pains 158 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 4: to present a contrarian, Agnostic, and even the Protestant side, 159 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 4: because while Protestants and Catholics will definitely converge on a 160 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 4: lot of theology, they do diverge in some significant areas. 161 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 4: So we really wanted to create something that was like 162 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 4: open to a lot of folks. So in particular for 163 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 4: Father just to oversimplify is that Hell is an absolute reality, 164 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 4: that God is very real, and that the world is 165 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 4: He once said this to me, and I thought it 166 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 4: was very well put. Was that the world is charged 167 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,599 Speaker 4: with far more spiritual activity than you could ever understand. 168 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 4: He also takes great pains to say that for Christians, 169 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 4: they need not fear the enemy, you need not look 170 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 4: at it as being something behind every bush. And actually 171 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 4: he really does agree with C. S. Lewis's famous quote 172 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 4: about the two great mistakes that we make when it 173 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 4: comes to spiritual warfare. One to see it in everything 174 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 4: and to give it too much attention, or the alternative, 175 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 4: which is to ignore it completely at our own peril. 176 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 4: So he very much kind of falls in that with 177 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 4: that line, which is, you do not need to when 178 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 4: you get in your car be afraid that you're going 179 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 4: to be encountering demonic forces unless you live in Los 180 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 4: Angeles or Atlanta. And the traffic, of course. 181 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 3: Is particularly to the home down ground, you know. 182 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 4: But I mean, there's some tough traffic that you have 183 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 4: to deal with, right, But so it is a real thing. 184 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 4: And one thing to factor in two is the cases 185 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 4: that we profile. He deals with some of the most 186 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 4: extreme cases that by the time they reach him, they 187 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 4: are particularly serious. And so this is not your you know, 188 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 4: sort of average run of the mill someone who may 189 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 4: or may not think they might have some sort of 190 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 4: ghost traps or spiritual issues. So it is very real 191 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 4: for him. He thinks it is definitely on the rise. 192 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 4: I actually I got him to weigh in on this 193 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 4: prior to this episode. He's actually in Hong Kong right 194 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 4: now on a trip, and he said that he fundamentally 195 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 4: believes it is true the exorcisms are on the rise, 196 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 4: that demonic activity is on the rise, and he believes 197 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 4: that is because of a moving away from traditional religion, 198 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 4: and so he in his worldview that leads to a 199 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 4: increase in sort of that activity. And there's just a 200 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 4: fascination with the occults. You're seeing this in a lot 201 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 4: of places. 202 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 2: The one thing in that episode that really struck me 203 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 2: is ryan how you compare Instead of thinking about Hell 204 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 2: as a physical place that is, you know, somewhere below us, 205 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: or you know, somewhere some physical place somewhere, you liken 206 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 2: it to the matrix where the devil and demons in 207 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: the same way that God has access to the entirety 208 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: of it. 209 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 5: Right, Like. 210 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: The way an agent infiltrates a person who is in 211 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: the matrix is similar to the way a demon can 212 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: infiltrate a you know, human being on earth, because it's 213 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: not as though they are in a physical place in hell, 214 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: they're existing almost as an overlay of the reality that 215 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 2: we encounter. That was fascinating to me. 216 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 4: Oh, the matrix is really interesting. So I again, I 217 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 4: don't think this is probably intentional, and I'm sure there's 218 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 4: some shortcomings for the comparison, but I love the matrix 219 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 4: as a metaphor for the Christian worldview because the idea 220 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 4: is that, you know, without following God and without sort 221 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 4: of stepping into what we are fundamentally designed to be, 222 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 4: that we're all sort of asleep and we're sort of 223 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 4: you know, bought off by worldly pleasures, just the ordinary, 224 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 4: just you know, passing time, and that if you are 225 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 4: plugged into that, and if you and so in sense, 226 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 4: in essence, and I think Father would agree with this, 227 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 4: if you do not have the Holy spirits, as by 228 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 4: Catholic and Protestant theology, then the enemy has much more 229 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 4: free will and can move in and out. And so 230 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 4: essentially you're still hardwired into this matrix. But the moment 231 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 4: you're liberated, the moment that that Holy Spirit imbues a person, 232 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 4: they're severed. And now agents can still cause problems, as 233 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 4: we see when you're because if we're dealing in their 234 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 4: dimension or if they come into ours, but they can't 235 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 4: hijack you in the same way, which I found which 236 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 4: was really interesting. And I just also love the idea 237 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 4: of you know, someone saying, you know, do you want 238 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 4: to know what the reality of the world actually is? Something? 239 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 4: Is there something actually wrong? And you know it deep 240 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 4: down inside? And it is really cool and I think 241 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 4: I want to make sure too. One thing that comes 242 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 4: up on this is that so much of demonology and 243 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 4: hell and all stuff, a lot of this is conjecture. 244 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 4: I mean, they're educated guesses. There's wonderful intellectual tradition and theology, 245 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 4: and there's a lot of stuff that I deeply agree with, 246 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 4: but a lot of this is guessing. 247 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 2: You know. 248 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 4: It's funny. We get a lot of emails from saying, 249 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 4: you know what about this and isn't it true this? 250 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 4: And I'm like, I have not been there, thankfully, I've 251 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 4: not visited Hell, do never want to go, and so 252 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 4: I cannot speak and I've not talked to the tourism board, 253 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 4: so I cannot speak with any authority on what it is. 254 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 5: Yeah. 255 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 3: Specific, Yeah, that's that's the that's that's something I think 256 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 3: that's key. There's a there are a couple of there 257 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 3: are a couple of large misconceptions that the global public 258 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: has about the Catholic the Catholic practice of exorcism, right, 259 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: or the Catholic philosophy of possession as well as you 260 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 3: know something that the show readily acknowledges other culture's concepts 261 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 3: of possession and exorcism. What would you say are some 262 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: of in Father Carlos Martin's view, what would you say 263 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: are some of the common public misconceptions about how an 264 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: exorcism actually works? 265 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And so the biggest one is the way 266 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 4: Hollywood portrays exorcism as this equivalency battle. It's basically a 267 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 4: shouting match of who can can the priest get out 268 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 4: just the right amount of really verbose Latin and just 269 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 4: the right amounts and shout it down before a plate 270 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 4: flies off the wall and hits him in the head. 271 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 4: And it's this like battle of two sort of equal 272 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 4: but opposing forces. And so he will tell you that, no, 273 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 4: I mean one based on the theology, that's not the 274 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 4: case at all. The demons have already lost, right, And 275 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 4: their whole job in this point is to just try 276 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 4: and wreck things, try to make your life tough and 277 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 4: remain as long as they can. They know they're losing. 278 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 4: It's like a caged animal that's been cornered, right, and 279 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 4: all they can do is last shout. So stuff happens, 280 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 4: and he will tell you that the phenomena witnessed in 281 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 4: the Exorcism, minus the head spinning. He's very clear. The 282 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 4: head spinning he's never seen. He also thinks that would 283 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 4: sever the spinal cord. 284 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: And the exercises the Exorcist the film, Yes, the exors 285 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 3: is the film based on the alf. 286 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 4: Yes, So he says, the crab walking, spitting levitation. That 287 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 4: was my first question I had to ask him, is 288 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 4: have you seen this? He goes absolutely. I went, okay, 289 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 4: we have the makings of a show here, but no. 290 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 4: So the biggest thing is it is not a just 291 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 4: sort of like Dragon ball Z battle right where you're 292 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 4: just like throwing opposing forces at each other. So he's 293 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 4: walking in there and he's issuing commands. He's not talking 294 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 4: to it, he's not engaging in conversation. He issues orders 295 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: and commands based on the priestly authority that he has. 296 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 4: And the suspense and the drama of an exorcism is 297 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 4: the psychological battle to actually identify the wounding or doorways 298 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 4: or gateways that this thing got in. And so a 299 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 4: great example might be. 300 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: Oh, to remove the jurisdictions. 301 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 4: Right, to remove the jurisdiction. So everything he would say this, 302 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 4: and you know from my research too, this is I 303 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 4: would back this up, is that it's all demons are 304 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 4: highly legalistic. Everything is about permissions and order. Right do 305 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 4: they have permission to be there? And it is about 306 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 4: and that's where to exercise and remove those rights. That 307 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 4: is what is happening. So he's essentially saying, no, you 308 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 4: don't have that right. The demon will shout out and 309 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 4: say I can be here because of this, And he'll say, 310 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 4: all right, person, do you repent of this? You can 311 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 4: you get rid of this object? Right? Do you confess 312 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 4: that whatever it is? Then it's removed? And he says 313 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 4: no more, Now you don't have that right anymore. And 314 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 4: then by that order, then eventually the demons have to leave. 315 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 4: So that's where I think the biggest misconception is. And 316 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 4: I get it because it makes for a great movie, 317 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 4: but it's just not accurate. Also, the big one, if 318 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 4: you really want to get Father fired up, a priest 319 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 4: would never ever ever ask a demon take me instead, 320 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 4: Like that's the big issue with that film. He's like, 321 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 4: it's just because there's that's a surrender, it would not happen. 322 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 4: He's in charge when he walks in, there's still nerves, 323 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 4: right because the person has to participate. He can't do 324 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 4: it on someone who's not a willing participant, who doesn't 325 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 4: want to be liberated. So there's some drama there, but overall, yeah, 326 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 4: those are the probably the big two. 327 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 3: We're going to pause here for a word from our sponsor, 328 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 3: and then we'll dive deeper into the exorcist files. And 329 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: we've returned, let's dive back in to quickly play devil's advocate, 330 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 3: which never seemed like a more loaded term than in 331 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 3: this particular conversation. Is there a part of this, this 332 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 3: exorcism activity that is akin to therapy in some way, 333 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,719 Speaker 3: because it would seem to me that there are examples 334 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 3: that maybe could be seen as potential demonic possession that 335 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 3: are actually just a serious mental illness, and perhaps even 336 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 3: you know, in a church sanctioned situation like this, there 337 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 3: might be examples where there are both of these things 338 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 3: at play. 339 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 4: That is a great question, and honestly, the main thing 340 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 4: that fascinated me with this. So I came to this 341 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 4: because I do have a spiritual a worldview, and another 342 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 4: way to put is like I don't subscribe to a 343 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 4: wholly naturalistic worldview. I also don't think most people do either. 344 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 4: I think, if we're really honest with ourselves, everyone accepts 345 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 4: truth that they can't verify in a lab Like we 346 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,239 Speaker 4: love each other, We believe in rights and you know, 347 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 4: values that are not conferred by nature. We all agree 348 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 4: in consciousness and thoughts, but we can't we can't prove 349 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 4: a lot of this stuff. And so I do come 350 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 4: into this very open and the idea and also the 351 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 4: big thing for me too that I think has to 352 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 4: be stated is that you know, and we we document 353 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 4: this in our research, but it seems like every culture 354 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 4: throughout all of history has some sort of reality and 355 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 4: paradigm and prescription for how to deal with demonic spirits 356 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 4: and evil forces. Like it's just been a reality for 357 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 4: so many and it still is in a lot a 358 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 4: large part of the world. There's a lot of spots 359 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 4: where it's very real. The witch doctors and and you know, 360 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 4: kind of the practice of the occult is is still 361 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 4: very real. So I come into this too, wondering, well 362 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 4: is this mental illness? And father will say this, and 363 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 4: also one of the contributors to our show, doctor Richard Gallagher, 364 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 4: brilliant brilliant psychiatrists Yale trained teaches at Columbia. They both 365 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 4: said that most cases are in fact just mental illness. Right. 366 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 4: It is very difficult to get an exorcism in the 367 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 4: church for good reason. One, it's usually not spiritual. Mental 368 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 4: illness is a real thing. And thankfully the church, and 369 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 4: I'm talking about the not just the capture, but there's 370 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 4: been a broad acceptance of psychology and mental health and 371 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 4: therapy is a wonderful tool to help people. And so yes, 372 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 4: there are many cases where it probably could be explained. 373 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 4: And sure, you go back in history. I'm sure the 374 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 4: first time or before they had a real paradigm for 375 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 4: Turette syndrome. I got to imagine people just thought like, 376 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 4: oh my gosh, like that person you know has that. 377 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 4: But here's where it really kind of breaks your box. Right, 378 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 4: So this is a question I've had to ask myself. 379 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 4: Let's grant let's let's let's grant from them. Let's play 380 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 4: a little Morpheus here. Let's say there was an immaterial, 381 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 4: timeless meaning outside of time, like ethereal embodiment of evil 382 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 4: that was like this personification of evil that had a legion, 383 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 4: no pun intended of helpers set to dismantle and completely 384 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 4: disrupt this like unfolding plan that God had for his children. 385 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 4: And the second they're discovered or the second a person 386 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 4: comes into contact and says, oh my gosh, this thing 387 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 4: is real, it immediately validates the existence of the supreme Being. 388 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 4: Would you make yourself known or would you hide? Would 389 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 4: you obfuscate? Would you completely make people think that this 390 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 4: is complete? HOOI? This is like all of this is 391 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 4: just psychology, psychological in your head. So if you think 392 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 4: about it, and if the theology is true, if Satan 393 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 4: and his minions are real and there is an intelligence there, 394 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 4: it makes to me absolute logical sense that if it 395 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 4: were real, they would try and hide behind this. And 396 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 4: what we've seen in some of these cases is that 397 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 4: the two are not mutually exclusive. One could very much 398 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 4: suffer from epileptic seizures, one could suffer from schizophrenia and 399 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 4: have multiple personality order and also be afflicted spiritually as well, 400 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 4: and a demon might choose to capitalize on both those, 401 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 4: so I'm with you. I come into this inordonally skeptical 402 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 4: and assume, and that's why I appreciate that the church 403 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 4: makes it difficult to get one. They have three classic 404 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 4: signs that you guys have talked about in previous episodes 405 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 4: that have to be there because the other ones, you know, 406 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 4: just being averse to religious objects. You can fake that stuff, 407 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: you know. And if you listen to the show too, 408 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 4: you will find that Father has these little fascinating diagnostic 409 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 4: tests that he uses, like flicking holy water on their 410 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 4: back when they're not looking reading fakely. 411 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: Can we talk? 412 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, let's talk. 413 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: About the holy water. In the second case is Jeremy 414 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: the Firefighter. And as we're going through and learning about 415 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 2: this case, as a listener, I'm thinking, Oh, this dude 416 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: is just going on drug benders because he's not talking 417 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 2: to his wife for like days at a time, waking 418 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: up in different places like, Oh, this dude's just on drugs. Totally. 419 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: That's what's happening in my head. Right until we get 420 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 2: to the moment where he's sat in Father Martin's office 421 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: or wherever they are, and Father Martin's is showing him 422 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 2: like books. I think kind of distracting him as almost 423 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 2: like as an illusionist, and then walks around behind him 424 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: with holy water, flicks it on Jeremy's back while Jeremy's 425 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: not looking, and at least according to Father Martin's, this 426 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 2: guy has a like could you describe the reaction? 427 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so he basically is. And he'll do this 428 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 4: with a lot of you know, victims that have come 429 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 4: in or people seeking help. And yeah, so he will 430 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 4: distract by you know, moving books, et cetera. You know, 431 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 4: saying he's very busy, et cetera. Yeah, tell me what's 432 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 4: going on. So what's going on? Right, And then he 433 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 4: walks around and he just drops this water that he blessed. 434 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 4: Yet he keeps holy water on his shelf, which you know, 435 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 4: as an extorist, I would keep holy water close to 436 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 4: me as well. And Jeremy just i mean flies out 437 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 4: of his chair. According to Father, he just lets out 438 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 4: this shriek and just like profanity. And you know, I'm 439 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 4: sure Father in that moment is like interesting because there's 440 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 4: no way he get to discern. The other thing he'll 441 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 4: do is he will read fake Latin, like he'll translate 442 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 4: an ESPN article into Latin and then he'll see if 443 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 4: he gets a reaction. If he starts getting a reaction 444 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 4: to a reading of the you know, nationals or the 445 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 4: Brave season stats in Latin, you'll go probably not genuine possession. 446 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 4: But if they then he'll switch, he'll stop, and he'll 447 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 4: start going into an actual prayer. And then if the 448 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 4: person just like tenses up, et cetera, he goes it's like, oh, 449 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 4: we've got a live one here. So I again, if 450 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 4: we're gonna if we're gonna poke holes in the show, right, 451 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 4: this is we are taking a priest stories according to him, 452 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 4: and we're just recounting them. I was not in the room. 453 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 4: I have not seen these personally, and I think that 454 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 4: needs to be absolutely stated. This stuff we've not I've 455 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 4: not seen footage of this. The best we can do 456 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 4: is take his stories and then also go around and 457 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 4: talk to other people. And I think for me what 458 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 4: ultimately lend so much credence to this And as y'all 459 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 4: have probably heard in the show, there's a lot of 460 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 4: other experts that have weighed in and these are again 461 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 4: you can disagree, you can say maybe you got it wrong, 462 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 4: and maybe they did, but these are sharp people. These 463 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 4: are smart, credible people who are not under any pharmological 464 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 4: assistance that I'm aware. 465 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 3: Of, diplomatic and sincere, Ryan, I'm really glad that you 466 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 3: brought up some things. There are a couple of things 467 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 3: I want to go back to, But before we do that, 468 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 3: let's go with the present. Let's talk a little bit, 469 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: not just about the intersection between faith, science and objectivity. 470 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 3: Let's talk about the team that has made this show possible. 471 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 3: You and Father Carlos Martin's are working with the course 472 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 3: our palful disclosure channel. We know them well. Your team 473 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 3: members also that you mentioned a bit include scientific advisor 474 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 3: doctor Richard Gallagher and Professor Joshua Brown. These guys are big, 475 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 3: big deals in their field. Now what what would you 476 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 3: say they play in this series? 477 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 5: Like? 478 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 3: How how do you interact with them? Knowing that the 479 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: audience itself may be listening without being practicing Catholics, right, 480 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 3: maybe being very skeptical and not believing in Catholicism whatsoever? 481 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 3: How how did they help you, guys bridge this bridge 482 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 3: this purported chasm between the scientific and the divine. 483 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 4: For sure, I mean, obviously, to make the show stronger, 484 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 4: we wanted to talk to other people and there's actually 485 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 4: a few contributors, and all of them played a special role. 486 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 4: The main thing is is they would, you know, with 487 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 4: doctor Gallagher in particular, and I encourage everyone to read 488 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 4: his book, Demonic Foes. If you're fascinated with this topic 489 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 4: and you want a really good beach read for people 490 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 4: to walk by and see you reading, that's a good one. 491 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 4: But you know, so one you take folks like doctor 492 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 4: Brown and doctor Gallagher. So doctor Gallagher, he is a 493 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 4: very eminent psychiatrist. I mean he studied classics and graduated 494 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 4: Phi beta cap. I think is the I'll mix. I'm 495 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 4: not at that levels where I can't even pronounce the 496 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 4: Greek superlatives that associate with his name, but he and 497 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 4: actually I was just rereading some of his book this 498 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 4: morning as I was prepping for this, right because he 499 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 4: came into this extraordinarily skeptical, and it was only after 500 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 4: witnessing some phenomena where patients started speaking languages that there's 501 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 4: no I mean, you don't just pick up Aramaic, you know, 502 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 4: you know, and there's I don't know, Rosetta stone Aramic 503 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 4: that I'm aware of, you know. He started and then 504 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 4: he would just find credible people and you go this, 505 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 4: something strange is happening. And he actually has one story 506 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 4: that he shares, which if we have time toime might 507 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 4: come back because it's a gnarly one. But I also 508 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 4: want you to support him and get his book because 509 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 4: it's a it's crazy. And when I so, I interviewed him, 510 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 4: and he was phenomenal being able to say, look, this 511 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 4: is what he's like, I know mental illness, right. He's like, look, 512 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 4: most of these patients are not spiritually possessed. That is 513 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 4: not the case. But he's like, but as a psychiatrist 514 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 4: of practicing for decades, I can look at someone and 515 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 4: I know the difference between schizophrenia right and delusions and 516 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 4: someone who has bruises appearing on their body out of nowhere, 517 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 4: who is exhibiting incredible strength and speaking Russian all of 518 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 4: a sudden when they're not Russian and have no exploit 519 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 4: He's like, I know the difference, right, and I've seen 520 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 4: that phenomena, And so I think having someone of that 521 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 4: academic caliber just say look, you know and again you 522 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: can disagree, all of this is totally So much of 523 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 4: this is I get so crazy to hear. But then 524 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 4: you take someone like doctor Josh Brown, who shared a 525 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 4: testimony right now his case. He actually has medical imaging 526 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 4: to back it up. It's not a true or it's 527 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 4: not a traditional case in the sense of possession. But 528 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 4: here's a guy who's not Catholic who basically experienced had 529 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 4: a brain tumor and a miracle. Right, yeah, oh yeah, 530 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 4: so he basically was an Again, I encourage everyone listened 531 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 4: to episode six where he shares his testimony. He was 532 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 4: essentially though one morning his wife had a dream that 533 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: there was a name afflicting him some sort of and 534 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 4: she wasn't sure if it was an entity or whatever 535 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 4: says this name, asked him does this mean anything? And 536 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 4: pray and he just erupts and starts having a seizure. 537 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 4: And again, you could look at this and go wow, 538 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 4: this so he ended up having a brain tumor. He 539 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 4: got dive exprained to me, and you could go wow, 540 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 4: a brain tumor totally can correspond with epileptic seizures and 541 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 4: result in this sort of symptoms. But the fact that 542 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 4: it happened at that exact moment with that name, right, 543 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 4: and then not until he went through a prayer session 544 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 4: months later, and then the things and then he got delivered, 545 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 4: and it started shrinking and shrinking, until eventually some scar 546 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 4: tissue just remains and it's not there anymore. His is 547 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 4: a great case. I love it so much because there's 548 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 4: always plausible deniability. It totally potentially could be explained in 549 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 4: the natural. But then you just run, you run the odds, 550 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 4: and you go, what are the odds they got prayed 551 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 4: for that that name was said, and then all of 552 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 4: a sudden, this thing that was told was not going 553 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 4: to get better, just got small and small and then 554 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 4: eventually vanished. And so you end up in a situation 555 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 4: will you collect enough of these stories and you go, 556 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 4: something's happening. On a final note on the contributors, we 557 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 4: had a woman who is the wife of a very 558 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 4: well known pastor share a story of chronic illness for 559 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 4: twenty years, and it wasn't until a relative of hers 560 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 4: went to a fortune teller and the fortune teller said, 561 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 4: you have a curse on your family, and she went, 562 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 4: what a curse? She goes, Yeah, you have a curse 563 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 4: on your family and it's afflicting the firstborn female in 564 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 4: each of your generations. And she goes, goes back, starts 565 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 4: looking back through their family history, and it's I mean, 566 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 4: she goes Ryan, it's one by one, just cancer, early death, 567 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 4: debilitating illness. And then they finally go and they see 568 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 4: an exorcist or a deliverance minister as we're more known 569 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 4: in the Protestant world, does a session instantly healed and 570 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 4: could feel everything leave. And she'll look, you know I 571 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 4: and say, and now she's been healed since and so 572 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 4: I know her. I know this person. She's wonderful, like 573 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 4: this is not I mean, she had accepted the illness. 574 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 4: So on one hand, I just say, look, question for sure, 575 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 4: come into this, you decide, be skeptical, and then just 576 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 4: rejoice with the fact that, regardless of whether you agree with 577 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 4: the means and the method, a lot of these people 578 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 4: are now happy and healthy and no longer afflicted by 579 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 4: whatever was causing the problem. So the contributors just really, 580 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 4: I think, lend a nice credence to it, you know, 581 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 4: just to add a little extra dimension than just father, 582 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 4: you know, other smart people saying yeah, what he saw 583 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 4: that happen, Well. 584 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 5: That certainly has the feel of the type of biblical 585 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 5: curse that any of us that grew up going to 586 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 5: Sunday School would be aware of the idea of the 587 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 5: firstborn or you know, things like that nature and really 588 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 5: does kind of fit that format like a like a glove. 589 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 2: We're also aware of what type of self fulfilling prophecy 590 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 2: a curse can be, right, So, like the psychology of 591 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 2: that is so intense and can be so intense. It's 592 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: fascinating because you can see I love I love the 593 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: Exorcist Files because it really does allow you, me again, 594 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 2: as a listener, I'm just speaking for myself here, a 595 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 2: space to really go back and think for yourself about 596 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: stuff like even your preconceived notions, the things that you 597 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 2: go into the show feeling or thinking, you know, you 598 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: can really explore them in there because you guys allow 599 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 2: for that space, which is really cool. I'm loving it. 600 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 4: Well, thank you. It's and I think you know, and 601 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 4: the team did a good job because everyone on the 602 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 4: team disagrees with someone else on the team about some 603 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 4: of their theology. So I really love the sort of 604 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 4: trifecta because not like you know, Father and I don't 605 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 4: grant everything knows Father does not agree with everything I 606 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 4: agree with. But you know, we really wanted this to 607 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 4: not be just proselytizing on was say, look, you know, 608 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 4: there's a real and honestly, Father considers it a win 609 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 4: if you don't touch the Ouiji board after it, or 610 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 4: you don't touch the you know, if you decide not 611 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 4: to go visit the shaman or the you know, witsch doctor, 612 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 4: he considers that a net win, even if you don't 613 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 4: agree with Catholicism. He just wants you to say, look, 614 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 4: this is the reality, and this is what I've seen, 615 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 4: and these are his experiences. And I think, obviously you 616 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 4: all do such a great job on this show. I mean, 617 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 4: you live in you live in the blurriness, you live 618 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 4: in the I mean, there's a lot of stuff that 619 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 4: can't be explained, and I just want people to keep 620 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 4: an open mind that, like I mean, is an existence 621 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 4: just gnarly. I mean honestly, when I started doing the show, and. 622 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 3: Sondra would say existence is itself, but. 623 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 4: No, it is. Yeah, it's just gnarly. But when you 624 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 4: think about like the fact that like we all exist 625 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 4: on this perfectly sized rock, like the a distance from 626 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 4: the perfectly sized star and like, and then you get 627 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 4: into quantum and you go, I mean it just it 628 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 4: really starts blowing your mind and That's where I started going. 629 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 4: If someone's like, dude, you're insane, Like this is nuts, 630 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 4: there are no such thing as demons, and I go like, 631 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 4: you might be right, but how about this, Sure we can't. 632 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 4: There are so many things about the universe right now 633 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 4: that like, and you get into quantity there and then 634 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 4: you really start and you're like, oh my gosh, like, 635 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 4: is it really that far fetched that there could be 636 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 4: something else going on that like that we just don't 637 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 4: have an explanatory framework for I mean, tell me, it's 638 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 4: not possible. 639 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 3: Seen through a specific cultural framework, No, Like, this is how, 640 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,919 Speaker 3: this is how we encounter stuff. The more the more 641 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 3: that human civilization learns about the nature of reality at 642 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 3: the very macro and very micro levels, the more it 643 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 3: seems that this kind of Goldilocks middle this just so planet, 644 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: with this just so gravity and this just so mixing chemicals, 645 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 3: the more extraordinary. It seems like, Uh, one thing, that 646 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 3: one thing that I believe we all love about the 647 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 3: Exorcist Files is this very even handed, this very even 648 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 3: handed exploration of this man's experience, of the father's experience, 649 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 3: and Ryan one thing that you guys do so very 650 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 3: well is humanize this right a lot of people will 651 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 3: get turned off, maybe because of their personal prejudices, when 652 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: they enter into a conversation or an exploration about something 653 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 3: considered supernatural and hearing someone recount their stories as an expert, 654 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 3: that might not reach everybody in the crowd. One thing 655 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 3: that you guys do very very well is humanize it 656 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 3: through recreations. And let's talk a little bit about this, 657 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 3: because there is for anyone who somehow hasn't listened yet. 658 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 3: The Exorcist Files includes you and father Carlos Martin's speaking 659 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 3: in depth about specific cases of possession and exorcism, and 660 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 3: those cases are depicted through recreation. Could you tell us 661 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 3: a little bit about the choice to do that and 662 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 3: how you and father negotiated those depictions. 663 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 4: Absolutely, so it's you know so originally so when we 664 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 4: had this and I first you know, optioned these cases, 665 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 4: the dream was film and TV. We wanted to start that. 666 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 4: And then this tiny little thing, this pandemic thing happened, 667 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 4: if you all remember this, but the country we kind 668 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 4: of shut down, and that really put the kabash on doing, 669 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 4: you know, anything with film and TV. So we were 670 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 4: because we had shopped this around and we were excited 671 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 4: and having cool converse. I mean it's exorcism, you know. 672 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 4: I mean no, it's O Paint. Were like, wait, you're 673 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 4: working with who and I'm like yeah, and it's an 674 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 4: And so I actually had kind of reached a point 675 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 4: and this is part of the cool story. I had 676 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 4: shopped it around and we had gotten a lot of interest, 677 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 4: and then when pandemic hit, we were just like it 678 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 4: was clear. I just no one knew it was going 679 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 4: to happen, and it was a scary time and I 680 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 4: was like, I don't know what's going to happen here, right, 681 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 4: And true story, I had a friend and this is 682 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 4: why I totally believe power of prayer. I will stand 683 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 4: here and just say I've seen this. Like I had 684 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 4: a friend say call me up and say, hey, I 685 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 4: was praying for you and I just wanted you to 686 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 4: know that I feel like God told me to connect 687 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 4: you with someone. And I was like, okay, well I'm 688 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 4: you know, it depends on who it is, but I'm 689 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 4: usually pretty open to you know, sure I'll meet a 690 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 4: friend right And she's like yeah, and I just think 691 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 4: it's someone you should meet. And so I was like, great, 692 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,959 Speaker 4: So I connected this person. We have a nice chat 693 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 4: just about like life in general, and we're all just 694 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 4: mutual friends. And she happens to work at this little 695 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 4: fringe podcast network called iHeart and if you all have 696 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 4: heard of this, but a very small, very you know, 697 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 4: boutique boutique podcasting network. And she goes, you know what 698 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 4: you have? You considered this as a podcast? And I 699 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 4: was like, I mean, yeah, no, not immediately, but ultimately 700 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 4: she's like, I think this would be a great podcast, 701 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 4: and she's like, let me connect you with some folks 702 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 4: over there. So I went to work and just put 703 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 4: together a little pitch and I decided I loved I 704 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 4: loved old time radio as a kid. My parents would 705 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 4: put me in the back of a Forerunner and we 706 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 4: drive her out at night and just the old like 707 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 4: sheet Metal for Thunder, you know, just like footsteps, you know, 708 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 4: really on the nose dialogue because you have to tell 709 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 4: where people are, like hey, you know mc bravo, Oh 710 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 4: that's right, or like Ben, what are you doing over 711 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 4: by the water cooler? And I loved those and it 712 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 4: was so fun and so spooky, and so I was like, 713 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,720 Speaker 4: I want to do this like recreates old time radio drama. 714 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 4: And then so we pitched it right away. They were 715 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 4: interested and it was awesome, and so iHeart was an 716 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 4: amazing partner. And then they assigned us this like you know, 717 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 4: of course, insanely brilliant engineer, editor, everything, include everything, right, 718 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 4: who goes, why don't we do this in three D 719 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 4: bin aral? So the aforementioned Darth Mays said, I think 720 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 4: we can do this in three D by and rural audio. 721 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 4: And I'm like, that sounds really cool. I don't know 722 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,919 Speaker 4: if I can say binaral and he's like, yeah, it'll 723 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 4: surround sound and I'm like, that's awesome. I did some 724 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,319 Speaker 4: research and I was like, oh, well, I mean it's 725 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 4: I don't know one who has really done it that way. 726 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 4: And he goes, no, no, We're going to do it 727 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,959 Speaker 4: live like found footage. And I thought that's awesome. Let's 728 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 4: get out there, and so he picked out this three 729 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 4: D MIC. It was also insanely difficult. If you really 730 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 4: want to have a fun stories, ask about the number 731 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 4: of leaf blowers that demonically appeared out of nowhere right 732 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 4: when we started. So we went out and have actors. 733 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 4: These are actual actors recording, moving around creating these sets, 734 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,399 Speaker 4: and one of my favorite stories is we're filming episode one, 735 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 4: which not to spoil anything, but one of the women, 736 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 4: as she becomes possessed, starts screaming profanity. And it was 737 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 4: ten pm at night and we're in Burbank and she's 738 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 4: running out the door as her husband flees. And so 739 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,439 Speaker 4: we have several takes going or I mean ten pm 740 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 4: at night and going now life without death, like screaming 741 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 4: at the top of her lungs in the neighborhood. And 742 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 4: I'm just just just white and just terrified. I'm like, 743 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 4: this is so bad. And Shannon's like, that was good. 744 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:24,439 Speaker 4: Let's get another take. 745 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 2: You're recreating demonic possessions with one. 746 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 4: Of these, yeah, show the show the ears, no. 747 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 2: The ears, But like, I'm just I'm imagining how creepy 748 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,439 Speaker 2: that is that you're like playing characters getting possessed and 749 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 2: being in the state of possessed with actual looking ears 750 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 2: as the thing listening. There's something demonic about that. 751 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 3: There's something symbolic at least. Yeah, how did how did 752 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,959 Speaker 3: Father Martin's or how does Father Martin's feel about these recreations. 753 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 3: I gotta admit, right, I'm a bit surprised when I'm 754 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 3: listening seen through what I'm talking with you and Chandler. 755 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 3: I'm a bit surprised, uh that Father Martin's had nice 756 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 3: things to say about the accuracy of the film, the 757 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 3: accuracy the Exorcist. So what did uh what what did 758 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,720 Speaker 3: he think of these recreations? 759 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 4: Well, remember, he had niceness to say, albeit one massive 760 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 4: like ruining plot problem. 761 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 3: No, the no no inviting the demon Father carous Is. 762 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 4: No priests would ever do that. So so he gets 763 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:36,959 Speaker 4: very It's fun to watch the things that get Father 764 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 4: riled up, you know, and that's one of them. And 765 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 4: bad Scotch. But I mean, hey, if you've spent all 766 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,359 Speaker 4: day casting out an ancient serpent, I mean you need 767 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 4: to decompress. I think you know he deserves. 768 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,359 Speaker 5: It, but should be a Scotch commercial, right then? 769 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, welcome back to discerning the spirits with Father Martin's. 770 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 4: You know, so, Brent, you heard it here first. 771 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, So he he speaks, he speaks in 772 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 3: a very approachable way. And Father Martin's here is he's 773 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 3: not really talking down to people at all, which I 774 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 3: think we all appreciate. Uh, He's he's not condescending, he's 775 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 3: not overbearing. He's a person who's been through a great 776 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 3: deal of things, and he's talking quite honestly about them. 777 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 3: So I think one of the big questions that a 778 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 3: lot of people hearing the Exorcist files are going to 779 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 3: have is did he did he approve of these of 780 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 3: these actors depicting this story or these stories. 781 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 4: It took a long time to build trust, enough of 782 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,720 Speaker 4: I mean, because he knew the big risk he was taking. 783 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 4: He was forever seating his anonymity, and his life has 784 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 4: fundamentally changed. I mean, his phone is ringing off the hook. 785 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 4: He has had people, I mean, and my inbox are 786 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 4: to say. The inbox for the show is filled with 787 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 4: emails with attachments which I will not open, people saying 788 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 4: do you think this is cursed? Do you think this 789 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 4: is possessed? I checked my norton anavirus and it doesn't 790 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 4: include a provision for spiritual protection over my email. 791 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 3: But the questions about relics our relics. 792 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 4: But no, it took a lot of There was a 793 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 4: lot of trepidation at first, and I was nervous too. 794 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 4: And one thing Chandler did a great job doing is 795 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 4: because he has such a wonderful ear for that, you know, 796 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 4: I mean, I knew a lot of the actors. A 797 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 4: lot of them were friends of mine. It's very cool, 798 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 4: also very disturbing to see your friends. We had one 799 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 4: actor who plays the murder demon in episode five, which 800 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 4: I think is probably the best episode of the They're 801 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 4: all great, but he ends up. I remember we were, 802 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 4: you know, holding the mic in front of him, and 803 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 4: he was the demon playing murder and he creaked his 804 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,759 Speaker 4: neck to the right and you could hear on the 805 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 4: audio recording the snapping of his vertebrae like in the 806 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,919 Speaker 4: like a chiropractic adjustment, and Chandler I looked at him, 807 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 4: that's all like that guy, he just nailed it. And 808 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 4: he was like, you came to play. So it was 809 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 4: cool to see your friends do that. Father didn't actually 810 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 4: have a chance to listen, I mean, because that wasn't 811 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 4: his role. He just had to trust us. And once 812 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,800 Speaker 4: he heard the first episode and he was like, whoa, 813 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 4: this is really cool because we were all nervous. I 814 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 4: was excited, and I will admit too, I had a 815 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 4: crisis of faith. We had a few reviews coming early 816 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 4: on that said recreates are silly, I don't want to 817 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 4: do this right. And then it's funny. It's such a 818 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 4: good lesson not to judge anything too quickly, and then 819 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 4: days later, just hundreds pouring in saying this is amazing. 820 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 4: And now we've got thousands of reviews saying, you know what, 821 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 4: I didn't think recreates would work well, but it actually 822 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 4: does lend an authenticity to it that is really cool 823 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 4: and so so grateful we end up sticking with it, 824 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,919 Speaker 4: and Father he actually he loves that, and it's fun 825 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 4: to see him as he gets more involved in the 826 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 4: process too, the inner filmmakers coming out the recording like 827 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 4: could we try with this? Can we try with this? 828 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 4: And you know, it's it's really fun. So it's been 829 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 4: it's become increasingly more collaborative with him and and it's 830 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 4: just just a blast. 831 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 5: Well that's the thing though, I mean, recreations sort of 832 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,799 Speaker 5: have a bad rap because they're so often used ham 833 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 5: fistedly and they sort of are associated oftentimes with sort 834 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 5: of hacky material. So it's really all and how you 835 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 5: use it. It can be as great or as you know, 836 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 5: poor as you as you make it, and you guys 837 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 5: absolutely knocked out of the park. 838 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 4: It's funny when you see some of the runnings, like 839 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 4: there's a scene where a guy is running away from 840 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 4: a witch and he's carrying the mic and sprinting like 841 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,440 Speaker 4: eighty yard sprints at a time, yelling, And so I 842 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 4: would love to show people one day, just like all 843 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 4: the behind the scenes of like what you heard and 844 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 4: what's actually happening in the moment, and you're like, this 845 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 4: is just this is so trippy to like see all 846 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 4: this stuff. And there's so many talented actors. We had 847 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 4: over forty five actors involved in the process. Who you know, 848 00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 4: I mean, this was a very This wasn't the most 849 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 4: expensive production, and so we were so grateful for the 850 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 4: people that came in to do it and the locations 851 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 4: that were donated. So it was really it was really 852 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,319 Speaker 4: cool to get out there, and it's also fun for 853 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 4: people to explain to that. We had one gal who 854 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 4: was just out of college and she was telling us 855 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 4: how she was explaining to her mom and dad the 856 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 4: first big break she got in her acting and her 857 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 4: parents like, what are you doing? So I'm a possessed girl, 858 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 4: And we're like, great, that's that's that's on, that's on, 859 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 4: that's on point. That's good for you. You know. 860 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 5: All right, let's take a quick pause, hear a word 861 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 5: from our sponsor, and then come back with more from 862 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 5: Ryan Bethey. 863 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,320 Speaker 2: And we've returned with Ryan Bethay talking about the Exorcist Files. 864 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 3: Also also speaking of behind the scenes, Ryan, I would 865 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 3: I would pause it to you that The Exorcist Files 866 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:55,640 Speaker 3: is kind of the first ever behind the scenes of 867 00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 3: exorcisms and possession in Catholicism. Right in this meeting. I'm 868 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 3: thinking in particular of some of the bonus episodes that 869 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,760 Speaker 3: have come out, which we found extraordinarily fascinating. I'm thinking 870 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 3: in particular of Exorcist addenda, which dives deep into the 871 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 3: ideas of relics, the idea of how a saint can 872 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:25,800 Speaker 3: be beatified and canonized, demonic hierarchies, which is a special 873 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 3: interest to us for some unrelated matters, and the and 874 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 3: the uh. 875 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 2: The well, moving on. 876 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 3: So f Father Martin's is an Father Martin's, aside from 877 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:51,480 Speaker 3: being an active working exorcist, also is intensely involved in 878 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,880 Speaker 3: the world of reliquaries and relics. Is that correct? 879 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 4: That is correct. He is affectionately and quasi and appropriately 880 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 4: referred to as the real guy. But he does have 881 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,040 Speaker 4: and I don't even know what you'd call it. It's 882 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,879 Speaker 4: not a collection, but it's a has a. He has 883 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 4: in his on his person some very cool relics and 884 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 4: does these tours where people come to adore them, I 885 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 4: think is the correct terminology, and to reflect on their meaning, 886 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,720 Speaker 4: et cetera. And he's said that he's witnessed and heard 887 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,880 Speaker 4: lots of crazy testimonies of cool things happening on the 888 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 4: relic side. What was interesting is, obviously we feature that 889 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 4: in one of the episodes where he brings out the 890 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,680 Speaker 4: relic or a friend of his he had shipped a 891 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:38,760 Speaker 4: relic to that was intimately tied apparently to this demon's past. 892 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,560 Speaker 4: This demon had been responsible for the murder of a 893 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,759 Speaker 4: saint in the patent and hundreds of years ago, and 894 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,760 Speaker 4: he just happened to have a relic from that saint. 895 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,359 Speaker 4: And so we brought that exorcist on who was in 896 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,880 Speaker 4: the room that day, and said, can you describe what 897 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 4: happened when that relic was put on the demon? And 898 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 4: he said, Ryan, it was the most horrifying shrieking, like 899 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 4: this thing hell broke loose. And it's funny because obviously 900 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 4: relics so from a product, and I come at this 901 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,279 Speaker 4: from a Protestant angle and not from a Catholic angle. 902 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 4: Like relics are not talked about. They're not something that 903 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 4: is at all discussed in Protestant circles. I will say, though, 904 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,360 Speaker 4: to be fair to follow on Catholic side, like it 905 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 4: is mentioned in Acts, they say Paul's the Apostle, Paul's 906 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:22,359 Speaker 4: garments pieces and shreds of the garment were sent out 907 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 4: and they healed people, and they drove out demons, and 908 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 4: so that tradition continues in the Catholic Church. And he 909 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 4: has some fascinating objects that are purported to contain some power. 910 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,960 Speaker 4: And you know what, it's funny. We've researched and I've 911 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,400 Speaker 4: heard from several people friends of mine, unrelated to the show, 912 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,239 Speaker 4: who have had experiences where they got an object or 913 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,280 Speaker 4: a sort of token at some market in a different 914 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,360 Speaker 4: country and started experiencing some problems afterwards. So it really 915 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,280 Speaker 4: doesn't I know, it's a little different, but it doesn't 916 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 4: surprise me that we It seems like a lot of 917 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,719 Speaker 4: people accept the idea of like cursed objects. So the 918 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 4: idea of an object that confers or is imbued with 919 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 4: some holy uh you know, power and has been you know, 920 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 4: and is tied to you know, God shouldn't actually be 921 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,359 Speaker 4: that big of a surprise, right, So it is. It's 922 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:15,240 Speaker 4: fascinating stuff. 923 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 5: And I mean there are certainly massively famous, you know, 924 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 5: artifacts of this nature or relics that you know, appear 925 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,279 Speaker 5: in pop culture, like the Arc of the Covenant and 926 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,359 Speaker 5: you know, the Shroud of Turn and things like that. 927 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 5: So I mean it's interesting to see functional kind of 928 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 5: discussions of these things outside of some sort of like 929 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 5: cartoonified you know, Marvel version of these things. 930 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 4: And the Dial of Destiny, I want to be clear, 931 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:40,880 Speaker 4: is not a relic. 932 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 3: So it's based on the anti Catherra mechanism, which at 933 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:47,960 Speaker 3: best would be a relic of secularism. 934 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:49,879 Speaker 4: That's right, That's right. I just wanted to. 935 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 3: Also also, I do want to give a big shout 936 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 3: out this is this is such a dumb shout out, right, 937 00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:05,160 Speaker 3: I do want to say. I believe it was the 938 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,480 Speaker 3: first bonus episode Exorcist adenda where we have one of 939 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:15,440 Speaker 3: my favorite puns, which is let's turn in the page 940 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 3: in a shroud of turin reference. So this is also 941 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,880 Speaker 3: a hashtag no pun left behind show in some parts. 942 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,520 Speaker 3: And that's that's another thing I think is very human 943 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,320 Speaker 3: about it, and it's not stuffy, and it's not looking down, 944 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 3: it's not it's not attempting to invalidate people's personal experiences. 945 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 3: There's there's another fascinating bonus episode which is just a 946 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,880 Speaker 3: Q and A. It's like a listener mail episode with 947 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,000 Speaker 3: you and and father Martin's talking to the audience. Now, 948 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,560 Speaker 3: you said you guys already were at a what does 949 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:03,360 Speaker 3: Reddit call it an rip and box state? With all 950 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,520 Speaker 3: the correspondence you've received, what kind of questions have listeners 951 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:08,279 Speaker 3: been asking you? 952 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 5: All? 953 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:14,799 Speaker 4: Oh? Man, great one. So the number one question we get, 954 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,600 Speaker 4: or early on we got, is what's a podcast? Where 955 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,719 Speaker 4: can I watch this? Which was really interesting, so we 956 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 4: had to actually explain I was actually shocked because you think, 957 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,040 Speaker 4: like podcasts are pretty pretty ubiquitous by now, there's a 958 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,120 Speaker 4: lot of folks who don't do podcasts or they don't 959 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,760 Speaker 4: even know where you'd get one. So that was interesting. 960 00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 4: The second question this, and I'd say these two account 961 00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,680 Speaker 4: for seventy percent of all questions that come in, is 962 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 4: will I get possessed listening to your show? I mean 963 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,600 Speaker 4: there was a huge amount of yeah, oh yeah, huge 964 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,000 Speaker 4: amount of fear, to the point where if you go 965 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,279 Speaker 4: on our website, we actually have a disclaimer under the 966 00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 4: Q and a no listening to this show. I mean 967 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,839 Speaker 4: one father Martins would not intentionally put you in harm's way, 968 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,680 Speaker 4: so you know, give him some credit, but to no. 969 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,239 Speaker 4: And then also again going back to the what if, right, like, 970 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,680 Speaker 4: what a brilliant strategy if there was an enemy like this, 971 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,239 Speaker 4: right and he scared you into the point where you 972 00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,920 Speaker 4: couldn't even learn about it without endangering yourself, Like that 973 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 4: would just be brilliant. So I found that really interesting, 974 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 4: and so we often would have to respond and saying, look, 975 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,600 Speaker 4: if this is real, if the spiritual, if the Christian 976 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 4: world dow is true, and you are a Christian, I 977 00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,799 Speaker 4: gotta bounce it. You're already under attack, Like, don't worry 978 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 4: about it, this is this is not the and there's 979 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 4: worse stuff you're listening to properly, you know. So I 980 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,080 Speaker 4: think that's those are the tw big two. And then 981 00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,399 Speaker 4: we get a lot of really specific questions about can 982 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,000 Speaker 4: you interpret this dream for me? Can demons read our thoughts? 983 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,879 Speaker 4: I got that question so many times because sometimes it's, 984 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,680 Speaker 4: you know, it's it's hard to extrapolate exactly what you know, 985 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,160 Speaker 4: what I really appreciate about Father is he does a 986 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,160 Speaker 4: good job of saying this is what is official doctrine, 987 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,120 Speaker 4: this is what's my experience, right, And one of the 988 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 4: beautiful things I have to say this because obviously I 989 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,320 Speaker 4: think a huge portion of the audience is probably is Catholic. 990 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 4: But there's some significant theological differences between Protestants and Catholics, 991 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,000 Speaker 4: And to the point where I even had some Protestants 992 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:13,640 Speaker 4: asked like, hey, how are you comfortable propagating his actual views? 993 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,839 Speaker 4: And I have to say it wasn't a mean spirited question, 994 00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:18,400 Speaker 4: just still sort of like hey, generally, because you know, 995 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,719 Speaker 4: there's some differences. And I was like, well, Father and 996 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,680 Speaker 4: I really together decided one, obviously, these are his stories, 997 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,479 Speaker 4: so these are his experiences. Decide what you will. But two, 998 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,879 Speaker 4: let's stress the commonality. And here's the commonality from both 999 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,120 Speaker 4: those worldviews, which is like, hey, you don't need to 1000 00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,760 Speaker 4: be afraid of this stuff if you're doing the right things. 1001 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,040 Speaker 4: And two, you don't have to get a Catholic exorcism, 1002 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,840 Speaker 4: which I really appreciated. You know, granted he believes that 1003 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,360 Speaker 4: is by far the most effective right, and a major 1004 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,600 Speaker 4: exorcism is not to be undertaken by anyone but a priest. 1005 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,879 Speaker 4: But you know, I really appreciated the dialogue about hey, 1006 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,320 Speaker 4: like you know, because people will write in and say, 1007 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,960 Speaker 4: you know, well, can I went to this pastor or 1008 00:54:58,080 --> 00:54:59,200 Speaker 4: this this denomination? 1009 00:54:59,400 --> 00:54:59,560 Speaker 1: You know? 1010 00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,560 Speaker 4: Is this so okay? Am? I Probably I still possessed 1011 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,320 Speaker 4: because I didn't get a Catholic one. And Father was 1012 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,600 Speaker 4: really good about saying, look, you know, if you are 1013 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,960 Speaker 4: baptized in Christ and you genuinely believe right, all believers 1014 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,520 Speaker 4: have the authority, according to the Christian tradition, to cast 1015 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,440 Speaker 4: out demons. That being said, he believes his experience the 1016 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,239 Speaker 4: right of exorcism, the Catholic version in theology is the 1017 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,320 Speaker 4: correct one, and then he would and good conscience recommend 1018 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,560 Speaker 4: them there. But I think there's a cool tension where 1019 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,840 Speaker 4: you can listen to it. And I love getting emails 1020 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,680 Speaker 4: from Protestants and even atheists. We actually had a Satanist 1021 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,319 Speaker 4: right in then say you guys did a great job 1022 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,240 Speaker 4: of capturing this is exactly how we operate. And I went, thanks, 1023 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:40,840 Speaker 4: how'd you get my email? Again? 1024 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 3: A deistic Satanist? That's somewhat rare. Okay, nice, Well, let's 1025 00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 3: talk about really quickly guys the first exorcism. 1026 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,279 Speaker 2: I think you were in the show. You guys talk 1027 00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,000 Speaker 2: about the first recorded exorcisms, and like how far the 1028 00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,760 Speaker 2: tradition goes back? How long ago the rights were created? 1029 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,520 Speaker 2: We go back to like sixteen fourteen, we go back further. 1030 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,600 Speaker 2: Father Martins talks about how the right of exorcism that's 1031 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,399 Speaker 2: used today was created five hundred years ago, and it's 1032 00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:13,520 Speaker 2: been modified over that time. But if you take it 1033 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:14,879 Speaker 2: all the way back, you can go to the New 1034 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:20,280 Speaker 2: Testament to Mark and read Mark five where Jesus exercises 1035 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:25,480 Speaker 2: a demon where he takes a a legion of demons, 1036 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,319 Speaker 2: around two thousand of them at least according to Mark, 1037 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,040 Speaker 2: pulls them out of a man, puts them into pigs 1038 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,799 Speaker 2: in a field, like literally two thousand pigs, and then 1039 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:41,480 Speaker 2: those pigs run down and drown themselves. Like that's that's nuts. 1040 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,920 Speaker 2: I just have to say it. I can't believe that it's. 1041 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,799 Speaker 4: A rough day for that farmer too. No one talks 1042 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 4: about that guy who owned all the pigs. 1043 00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:50,360 Speaker 2: That's a lot of food. 1044 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 4: He lost all that stuff there. Yeah, you know it's interesting. 1045 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,440 Speaker 4: Father will observe that a lot of the I think 1046 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,440 Speaker 4: I could be wrong on this too. But I think 1047 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,600 Speaker 4: a vast majority of the story stories about the demonic 1048 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,400 Speaker 4: in the New Testament, which to your point, Matt, like, 1049 00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,960 Speaker 4: it's the most talked about, slash and not talked about 1050 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,880 Speaker 4: thing in the New Testament. Like there's prayer, there's you know, 1051 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,040 Speaker 4: there's angels, there's I mean, you got all sorts of 1052 00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,040 Speaker 4: stuff in there, but the miracles everywhere. But Jesus does 1053 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,240 Speaker 4: you know, a few exorcisms, and it's understood that this 1054 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:20,840 Speaker 4: is a reality, and the disciples at one point come 1055 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,800 Speaker 4: back because he gives them the power and they to 1056 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 4: cast out demons and they come back and they're like, Jesus, 1057 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,240 Speaker 4: you won't believe it. This works, right, And He's like, 1058 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,480 Speaker 4: I know, guys, but don't be excited about that. That's 1059 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,959 Speaker 4: not the most important thing. Be excited about the fact 1060 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 4: that you're saved, you know. But it was. But most 1061 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,480 Speaker 4: of the stories actually take place near water, which was 1062 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,360 Speaker 4: an interesting observation, and so Father has postulated there could 1063 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,840 Speaker 4: be some connection between the demonic and water, which you know, 1064 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,280 Speaker 4: keid even Strap extrapolate further there's water and baptism, and 1065 00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,480 Speaker 4: is there some inverse relationship, you know, One of the 1066 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,240 Speaker 4: theories that Actually, I don't think it was faught. It 1067 00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,320 Speaker 4: may have been fought. Someone put out this theory that 1068 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,920 Speaker 4: the wire, salt, and water in some of these like 1069 00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:09,120 Speaker 4: elements are these like materials used in exorcism. And one 1070 00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,680 Speaker 4: of the theories that got thrown out was that these represent 1071 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,720 Speaker 4: original jurisdictions that Satan and his demons had dominion over, 1072 00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,560 Speaker 4: and so using it against them is like God's sort 1073 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,240 Speaker 4: of justice against them, like, oh, you were you were 1074 00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:24,880 Speaker 4: in charge of the salt of the earth, and you 1075 00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,720 Speaker 4: were to oversee water, you know, and and now you 1076 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,920 Speaker 4: forfeited that jurisdiction, and so I will use it against 1077 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,040 Speaker 4: you as a constant reminder of the rebellion. So I 1078 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:37,840 Speaker 4: can't prove that, but it's kind of epic. 1079 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,600 Speaker 3: It's fascinating. Back to the idea of lawful evil, alignment 1080 00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:50,400 Speaker 3: of jurisdictions, right, the the idea of Satan as an 1081 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,680 Speaker 3: ubiquitous entity, non corporeal, dwelling at every moment in time, 1082 00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:02,680 Speaker 3: right and only allowed in when when cer invitations are made. 1083 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,560 Speaker 3: We're alluding to some things, folks. If you want to 1084 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:11,840 Speaker 3: hear the full exploration, tune in to the Exorcist files. 1085 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,880 Speaker 3: It's available now. A lot of the episodes we're talking 1086 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,320 Speaker 3: about that we barely touched on, including some deep dive 1087 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:24,840 Speaker 3: bonus episodes for which we're all grateful, Ryan, What if 1088 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:29,240 Speaker 3: we're being as general as possible here, it's clear that 1089 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:35,000 Speaker 3: this is for anybody interested in the concept of exorcism, 1090 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,440 Speaker 3: not just people of the Catholic faith. What do you 1091 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,640 Speaker 3: hope the audience can take away from experiencing the Exorcist files. 1092 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,520 Speaker 4: I'm going to answer that, but I'm going to make 1093 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,400 Speaker 4: you a deal for signing some legal or sixty here 1094 00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,240 Speaker 4: because I want to ask you guys too, if I 1095 00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,280 Speaker 4: can put you guys on the spot to what you 1096 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,959 Speaker 4: all think about some of this, because I've been monopolizing 1097 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,600 Speaker 4: this for a lot, but I so one, you know, 1098 00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:59,560 Speaker 4: this isn't the primal thing, but one I help people 1099 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,680 Speaker 4: at the core, at least they're entertained. I love making 1100 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,280 Speaker 4: things that help people be entertained. But more importantly, and 1101 01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:08,200 Speaker 4: far more importantly, is that I want to raise awareness 1102 01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:13,160 Speaker 4: of the idea that spiritual warfare could be far more 1103 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,880 Speaker 4: real than people realize. And regardless of your theology, your worldview, 1104 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,720 Speaker 4: your outlook, and again I'm biased, right, I'm not a naturalist. 1105 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,400 Speaker 4: I think there is abundant evidence, and I've just and again, 1106 01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,120 Speaker 4: we're all shaped by our experiences, right, I've had Prior 1107 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,240 Speaker 4: to doing the show, I had several friends in college 1108 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,440 Speaker 4: share a story with demonic encounters. The three guys who 1109 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,240 Speaker 4: don't know each other, but they're all just friends from 1110 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,520 Speaker 4: college who have almost the identical experience. Long ago. I 1111 01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,600 Speaker 4: was like, I think there's just there's stuff that's going on, 1112 01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:45,240 Speaker 4: There's stuff that can't be explained, and I want people 1113 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:46,840 Speaker 4: to open their minds and say, just for a moment, 1114 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,479 Speaker 4: consider this, right, and if it is real, how would 1115 01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:53,120 Speaker 4: that change some of the decisions we make in general? 1116 01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:55,720 Speaker 4: And so I hope people can at least walk away. 1117 01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 4: Also clarifying some of the misconceptions about it. A lot 1118 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,480 Speaker 4: of I know, there's a lot of wounding, and a 1119 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,920 Speaker 4: lot of people think it's just a wait, you know, 1120 01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,280 Speaker 4: it's a you know, I think when people think of 1121 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,080 Speaker 4: this sometimes they think of just like you know, inquisition 1122 01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,840 Speaker 4: and which trials and just like people being burned at 1123 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,320 Speaker 4: this you know that there's there's, of course, throughout history, 1124 01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:16,280 Speaker 4: a lot of mania, and I'm sure a lot of 1125 01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,880 Speaker 4: people were throughout history were very much falsely accused of 1126 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,240 Speaker 4: this right, but I'd love people to know that there's 1127 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,480 Speaker 4: also if you really dig in and find out the reality, 1128 01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,360 Speaker 4: at least from our priest's perspective, is that a lot 1129 01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,120 Speaker 4: of people get healthy. And this is another tool, like 1130 01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,920 Speaker 4: doctor Gallagher says too, is like as a medical practitioner, 1131 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:39,360 Speaker 4: I am obligated to bring forward any methodology that could 1132 01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,640 Speaker 4: be therapeutic for my patients. And if this happens to 1133 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,760 Speaker 4: be one, so be it. And at least let's be open. 1134 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,520 Speaker 4: Let's be open to it. And so I want people 1135 01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,640 Speaker 4: to just just again have the conversation and say, could 1136 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,200 Speaker 4: there be a spiritual reality that I'm not aware of? 1137 01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,240 Speaker 4: Because I do I do accept truths that I don't 1138 01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:04,120 Speaker 4: have physical, laboratory verified evidence for. And if what would 1139 01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,720 Speaker 4: what would be the implications of that? So on that note, 1140 01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:08,920 Speaker 4: I would love to know you'all have listened to obviously 1141 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,520 Speaker 4: some of this. Thank you appreciate it. You were you 1142 01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,680 Speaker 4: were the four extra downloads we got yesterday. I really 1143 01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,680 Speaker 4: appreciate that. But I'm curious, like, you know, where do 1144 01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,240 Speaker 4: you all live with this as far as like would 1145 01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:20,520 Speaker 4: you listen to it? Do you just is it sort 1146 01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,840 Speaker 4: of a blurry tension of, like, you know, because you 1147 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,040 Speaker 4: guys cover all sorts of crazy topics and this this 1148 01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,440 Speaker 4: could probably be lumped in with UFOs and everything, like 1149 01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,480 Speaker 4: you know, what do you you know, do you think 1150 01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,200 Speaker 4: there's evidence that there's something else going on? 1151 01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,840 Speaker 5: It's tough. I mean, like you said, we we sort 1152 01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:39,360 Speaker 5: of are doing and a lot of this type of 1153 01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,960 Speaker 5: thing on a regular basis, like day in and day out. 1154 01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:46,200 Speaker 5: So it's hard not to walk away with the sense 1155 01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,240 Speaker 5: that there is something deeper, you know, than we can see, 1156 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 5: and then we can you know, figure out and actually 1157 01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:58,880 Speaker 5: fully experience, you know, to the point of you know, 1158 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,520 Speaker 5: scientific evidence or to be based in some sort of 1159 01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,960 Speaker 5: provable thing. And I think if you discount these types 1160 01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,960 Speaker 5: of ideas, then you're sort of living only a partially 1161 01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,520 Speaker 5: rich life, you know, whether these be negative phenomenon or 1162 01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:20,280 Speaker 5: positive phenomenon, spiritual, demonic, you know, forces beyond our galaxy, 1163 01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:24,080 Speaker 5: forces beyond this kind of mortal coil. It's a long 1164 01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,560 Speaker 5: winded way of saying, you know, as like a non 1165 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:31,680 Speaker 5: monotheistic person myself, I absolutely am with you in having 1166 01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,680 Speaker 5: a spiritual belief. I don't know what to call it though, 1167 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,040 Speaker 5: and I certainly think that some of the things that 1168 01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:43,000 Speaker 5: you describe in your show really do cause one to 1169 01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,840 Speaker 5: take pause and give a little more thought and credence 1170 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,600 Speaker 5: to these kinds of things beyond just a psychological phenomenon, 1171 01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:56,200 Speaker 5: you know. So, yes, I do think there's something. I 1172 01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,600 Speaker 5: don't know what it is, though, but I remain open 1173 01:03:59,640 --> 01:03:59,960 Speaker 5: to it. 1174 01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,240 Speaker 4: I love it diplomatic, the erudite, well thought out, and 1175 01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:04,600 Speaker 4: that was great. It was good. 1176 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,880 Speaker 2: Well, I'll just I'll just give you an experience from 1177 01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,600 Speaker 2: today when I was listening to one of the episodes. 1178 01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:11,200 Speaker 5: One of the. 1179 01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:16,800 Speaker 2: Characters, I think, his brother brings home ouija board set 1180 01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 2: and they're like teasing their little brothers, a little kid, 1181 01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,320 Speaker 2: and they're teasing him about and they get him to 1182 01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,240 Speaker 2: use it, and almost immediately the little brother's like, Noah, 1183 01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,560 Speaker 2: I don't I'm not going to do this anymore. Goes upstairs, 1184 01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,240 Speaker 2: is like going to bed, and according to the story, 1185 01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,520 Speaker 2: he gets visited by some darkened figure that is so 1186 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,439 Speaker 2: dark it makes the darkness look light. I think that's 1187 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,040 Speaker 2: how it's described in the episode that I listened to. 1188 01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,520 Speaker 2: And this thing apparently has a cat's head. It's like 1189 01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,880 Speaker 2: a man with a cat head. So then I opened 1190 01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,680 Speaker 2: up the lesser key of Solomon to check out some 1191 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:55,640 Speaker 2: of the demons and how they're described in there. And 1192 01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,800 Speaker 2: Bail is described in that thing as having sometimes appearing 1193 01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,000 Speaker 2: with a cat head. And as I'm going through, I'm 1194 01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,840 Speaker 2: like reading about that and then comparing it, and it's 1195 01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:10,280 Speaker 2: just I think for me personally, the show is making 1196 01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:14,080 Speaker 2: me want to explore it further, not even knowing truly 1197 01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:16,920 Speaker 2: what I you know, believe about it, but it's certainly 1198 01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,600 Speaker 2: fascinating because it makes connections to other materials that are 1199 01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:21,920 Speaker 2: out there and that are available. 1200 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,160 Speaker 4: That's you know, that story. That story bothers me actually 1201 01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,760 Speaker 4: is that it seems like the kid doesn't like he 1202 01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,600 Speaker 4: did the right thing he left. You know, now obviously 1203 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:36,600 Speaker 4: he still makes a deal right, and so that's the 1204 01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:38,800 Speaker 4: and that's the thing, like we can say that doesn't 1205 01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,400 Speaker 4: seem fair, but again, if God is who the Bible 1206 01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,480 Speaker 4: says he is, then you know he ultimately will be 1207 01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,840 Speaker 4: found fair. But it's it's such a that story does 1208 01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:48,840 Speaker 4: bother me a little bit. But again he makes the pact. 1209 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:52,040 Speaker 4: But yeah, it's another crazy thing. So that you describe 1210 01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,440 Speaker 4: it the shadow that is there but not there, that 1211 01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:57,240 Speaker 4: is darker than darkness. So when I had mentioned the 1212 01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,840 Speaker 4: several people that I told you about in college. That 1213 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,240 Speaker 4: was something that really stuck out to me because and 1214 01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,640 Speaker 4: again they just dismissed it as like, man, you know, 1215 01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:07,760 Speaker 4: too much to drink that night or whatever. Right, but 1216 01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:11,080 Speaker 4: like one of them actually said that he was reading 1217 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:15,680 Speaker 4: a book, the Teachings of Don Juan and Had which 1218 01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,360 Speaker 4: you know that definitely is probably the you know, if 1219 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:18,800 Speaker 4: you're going to point to a book, that could be 1220 01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:24,200 Speaker 4: maybe the beginning. And he said he, uh, he was awake, 1221 01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:27,600 Speaker 4: he was sleeping at night, and this is a common 1222 01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,360 Speaker 4: common experience that people write in about so and again 1223 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,120 Speaker 4: this also, uh, you know, could be tied to some 1224 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,360 Speaker 4: physiological response humans have. I know that in our sleep 1225 01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,880 Speaker 4: we often are you know, can have this sensation of 1226 01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,400 Speaker 4: you know, suffocating, you know, with apnea or sleep paralysis whatever. 1227 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,320 Speaker 4: He described waking up and this shadow being in a 1228 01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,840 Speaker 4: corner of his room, the room being freezing, and it 1229 01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,880 Speaker 4: coming over and hovering over him and jumping on top 1230 01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,360 Speaker 4: of him and saying submit, like pushing him down. 1231 01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:57,200 Speaker 5: Uh. 1232 01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,600 Speaker 4: We document that story or a storyline that in the 1233 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,080 Speaker 4: Excess files. I have two friends who have that exact 1234 01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,320 Speaker 4: same experience, and a third with just a slight derivation 1235 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,360 Speaker 4: of it, And that's the kind of stuff that makes 1236 01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,000 Speaker 4: me go, okay, is there something in the human psyche 1237 01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,560 Speaker 4: that goes to that that manifests that kind of like 1238 01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,320 Speaker 4: when they say pee I was joking earlier, but you 1239 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,400 Speaker 4: know when Chandler would make the joke that he sees 1240 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,960 Speaker 4: the shadow people after going being awake for two days, like, 1241 01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,439 Speaker 4: maybe that's rooted in something, right, Maybe there's something going 1242 01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,760 Speaker 4: on there. But again, you hear these stories and you go, Okay, 1243 01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,080 Speaker 4: how come it's always the story of like jumping on 1244 01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,400 Speaker 4: the chest and saying submit, and you're just like, that's creepy. 1245 01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:37,280 Speaker 4: You know, I don't know what's going on there, So 1246 01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,720 Speaker 4: I'm that's kind of the stuff that I walk away 1247 01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:42,919 Speaker 4: going when you hear stories the father tells that line 1248 01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:45,280 Speaker 4: up with stuff you heard years before, you go. That's 1249 01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,160 Speaker 4: one of the reasons I find him particularly credible. 1250 01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 3: Ryan, would you be open to us inviting our fellow 1251 01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:57,920 Speaker 3: conspiracy realist to write to the Exorcist Files with their 1252 01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:58,880 Speaker 3: own experiences. 1253 01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,560 Speaker 4: Absolutely welcome to write. We do have so many emails 1254 01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,040 Speaker 4: that are coming in right now, but please like just 1255 01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:08,480 Speaker 4: be patient with us, because it does there's a lot 1256 01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,080 Speaker 4: of attachments come in and I got to clean out 1257 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,400 Speaker 4: the inboxes. So yes, if anyone wants to write in 1258 01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,200 Speaker 4: and share, we do try to read as many as 1259 01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,240 Speaker 4: we can. We obviously can't get back to everybody, especially 1260 01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,240 Speaker 4: in a timely manner, but please Actresses Files a Gmail. 1261 01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,080 Speaker 4: You can follow us on Instagram for the latest updates 1262 01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:27,400 Speaker 4: on the very tantalizing season two. You think you've heard 1263 01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:31,920 Speaker 4: some crazy stories already, Season two gonna blow your mind. 1264 01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,040 Speaker 4: So just when you thought it was safe to go 1265 01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:36,520 Speaker 4: back in the room. 1266 01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:40,360 Speaker 3: Right throw away your wija boards. And also if you 1267 01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,840 Speaker 3: if for those of us who would like to learn 1268 01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:46,280 Speaker 3: more about your work outside of the Exorcist Files, I'm 1269 01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:49,599 Speaker 3: thinking of stuff like Assembly seventy two. Where where can 1270 01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:50,679 Speaker 3: they find you directly? 1271 01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:52,960 Speaker 4: Yeah? So, one, you can follow me on the gram. 1272 01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,880 Speaker 4: I'm the bethet. It's not as pretentious as it sounds. 1273 01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,720 Speaker 4: It's just the and then my last name. And then 1274 01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,960 Speaker 4: you can follow us obviously on Exorcist Files at Instagram 1275 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,519 Speaker 4: as well. And then yeah, you can also reach me 1276 01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,679 Speaker 4: at Ryanbathay dot com if you want to ask questions 1277 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,120 Speaker 4: or I love connecting with folks and happy to help 1278 01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,960 Speaker 4: with anyone's within reason obviously we can't. It's funny father 1279 01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,360 Speaker 4: has gotten such a big increase in house call requests 1280 01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:20,360 Speaker 4: and he just can't do it anymore. So it's kind 1281 01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,640 Speaker 4: of Ghostbusters, you know, with the ad ran on so 1282 01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:27,920 Speaker 4: on there. But yes, no, definitely, And then please actually 1283 01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:31,360 Speaker 4: go to Exorcistfiles dot tv sign up for our email list. 1284 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,080 Speaker 4: We have some really exciting updates coming about season two, 1285 01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:38,320 Speaker 4: So please go to Exorcist Files dot tv. And then 1286 01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,479 Speaker 4: you can engage with the team on social media as well. 1287 01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,600 Speaker 4: We'd love to hear from you. We so appreciate it. 1288 01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,439 Speaker 4: The show's doing great. Grateful to iHeartRadio. They really helped 1289 01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:51,040 Speaker 4: make something special. Chandler crushed it. And grateful for y'all 1290 01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,720 Speaker 4: having me on this. You know, I would have made 1291 01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,400 Speaker 4: a great access how much I talk, I could have 1292 01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:56,840 Speaker 4: just the dem want to be like, please, if you 1293 01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:58,320 Speaker 4: just be quiet, I will leave. 1294 01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:08,519 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time. Man, We're not 1295 01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,880 Speaker 3: casting you out. We got to keep this one right. 1296 01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:12,360 Speaker 3: What do you think, Matt Nole? 1297 01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,080 Speaker 5: So oh, we say. 1298 01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:17,760 Speaker 4: I love it. 1299 01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:20,679 Speaker 5: Man. 1300 01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,479 Speaker 3: You know, at the at the end of that, I 1301 01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,200 Speaker 3: feel like we all still have a lot of questions. 1302 01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:28,040 Speaker 3: What do you think? 1303 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, nothing wrong with questions. I think they're important there, 1304 01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,040 Speaker 5: which makes us human, one of the one of the 1305 01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:37,160 Speaker 5: things that is uh. I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation and 1306 01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:43,719 Speaker 5: appreciated Ryan's commitment to spirituality and to you know, keep 1307 01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,520 Speaker 5: that kind of top of mind for him and his perspective, 1308 01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,720 Speaker 5: but also his willingness to you know, go elsewhere, go 1309 01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:53,560 Speaker 5: wherever the conversation and the thoughts might lead, and the questions. 1310 01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:58,599 Speaker 3: And such respect and objectivity right exploring such a personal, 1311 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:04,160 Speaker 3: large thing, and in the case of possession of exorcism, 1312 01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:09,320 Speaker 3: something that is often woefully mischaracterized in fiction. And I 1313 01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,480 Speaker 3: say that as a big fan of basically every exorcism 1314 01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:13,839 Speaker 3: horror movie on the planet. 1315 01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,320 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, guys, I came away from this 1316 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:24,040 Speaker 2: really wanting to somehow, some way get access to Father 1317 01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:29,320 Speaker 2: Martin's I guess, his files, because yes, he's He's apparently 1318 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:34,080 Speaker 2: got a whole transcript of the actual case that they 1319 01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,519 Speaker 2: called it, the Roland Doe case, the one that the 1320 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:40,479 Speaker 2: Exorcist book was based on, and with the actual you know, 1321 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,680 Speaker 2: person's name, with the full details of what happened. God, 1322 01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,320 Speaker 2: I would love to read that and other like transcripts 1323 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:51,240 Speaker 2: or recordings of actual exorcisms. 1324 01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:52,280 Speaker 4: God, I want to see that. 1325 01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:55,719 Speaker 3: I was asking. I was asking Ryan also off air, 1326 01:11:56,520 --> 01:12:01,679 Speaker 3: what the off off the books conversations with Martin's had been, 1327 01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,639 Speaker 3: like you know, in the creation of the show, because 1328 01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:09,720 Speaker 3: this guy is one of the world's foremost experts on exorcism. 1329 01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:15,080 Speaker 3: We hope that you found this conversation as fascinating as 1330 01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,160 Speaker 3: we have. And like we said earlier in the conversation, 1331 01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,479 Speaker 3: please do check out the Exorcis files. We're not blowing smoke. 1332 01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,640 Speaker 3: That is a very well done show. It tick the 1333 01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:26,840 Speaker 3: boxes for me, you guys. 1334 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, and once again big ups to our buddy Chandler Mays. 1335 01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,720 Speaker 5: Excellent work on the production side and research side and 1336 01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:37,559 Speaker 5: all the things side of this show from him as well. 1337 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:42,960 Speaker 3: And if you are possessed of something that you want 1338 01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:47,480 Speaker 3: to tell us, you can exercise your right to contact 1339 01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:52,200 Speaker 3: us at any number of platforms across the Internet hashtag 1340 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:53,679 Speaker 3: no pun Left Behind. 1341 01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:57,000 Speaker 5: Indeed, you can find it at the handle Conspiracy Stuff 1342 01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:01,720 Speaker 5: on Facebook, YouTube and Twitter, Conspiracy Stuff Show on Instagram 1343 01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:02,360 Speaker 5: and TikTok. 1344 01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,120 Speaker 2: Use your voice call what eight three three st d 1345 01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:10,679 Speaker 2: WYTK leave a voicemail. You've got three minutes, give yourself 1346 01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:12,680 Speaker 2: a nickname and let us know if we can use 1347 01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:15,760 Speaker 2: your message on the air. It's that simple. If you 1348 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,840 Speaker 2: don't want to do that stuff, why not instead send 1349 01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:19,320 Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email. 1350 01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:41,120 Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 1351 01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:43,320 Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production 1352 01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:47,960 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 1353 01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,320 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.