WEBVTT - How Fuel Cells Work 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technologies with 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:17.680 tex stole from how stuff works dot com. Hi, everyone, 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.360 welcome to tex Stop. My name is Chris Poulette and 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.400 I am an editor at how stuff works dot Com. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.320 Sitting across from me, as always, is senior writer Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.960 Hey there, do you not have a quote for us? 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.080 Not today? Okay? No, I I've been occasionally throwing in 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.440 random quotes from various movies I like, But I didn't 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.400 think of anything today I could have. I guess I 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.040 could say, uh, you keep using that hurd. I do 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.720 not think it means what you think it means. So 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:45.680 there we go. All right, then I'm happy with that. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.120 Now let's tackle our subject, which is how fuel cells work. 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:55.920 Fuel cells, the mystery, uh energy problem, savor of the future, 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:00.720 or we would we would hope anyway. Yeah, fuel cells 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.800 are this, uh well, it's it's kind of like a battery, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.160 you know. Let's let's go ahead and kind of define 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.760 what it does. It's an electrochemical energy conversion device. Yes, 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:12.759 actually that's that's sort of what I meant about mystery 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.160 because everybody talks about how cool they are, but nobody 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.319 really knows exactly what they do. But they convert chemicals 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.960 into electricity. That's that's like a battery. Yeah, No, it 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.760 is very much like a battery. Others. There are some 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.960 differences which will get into but in general a fuel cell. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.679 What most people tend to know about fuel cells is 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.560 one they create electricity and to their byproducts are heat 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.560 and water. Yes, that's it tends to be what most 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.199 people know about apart from the people who specifically work 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.560 in the fuel cell industry. Clearly they know a lot 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.039 more than that. Well, of course we always see that 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.680 mainstream media, you know, reporter going out to the back 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.560 of the fuel cell vehicle and putting a cup underneath 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.520 the tailpipe and drinking the water, right, And I think 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:58.600 that sticks with us. That's why we don't we don't 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:00.640 know that much more about it, because we go that's 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.720 really cool. Yeah, because because you think about that, you're like, well, 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:07.680 if we have this energy source that can create electricity 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.280 and the only byproduct really is heat and water, and 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.960 you know, water is not toxic. It's not like water 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.680 is going to be throwing out greenhouse gases into the 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.120 atmosphere or polluting in some other way. Why don't we 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.800 have more of these? And really the answer to that 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:26.560 question is that the technology is not sophisticated enough and 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.480 reliable enough, and most importantly, really, when you get down 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.120 to it, cheap enough to do on a widespread basis 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.399 to allow us to to switch to a fuel cell economy. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.480 So let's let's kind of talk about what how a 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.440 fuel cell works, what it does, where it came from. Um. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:46.200 First of all, well let's talk about Sir William Grove. Now, 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.800 Sir William Grove, he's the fellow who kind of invented 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.000 fuel cells, if you will, all right, he knew this 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.520 was back in nine by the way, he knew that 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.720 if you if you took some water and you ran 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.680 a trick current through the water, it would produce hydrogen 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.400 and oxygen molecules of water apart. Yeah, it's called electrolysis. 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.600 And actually this this tends to happen with various molecules. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.840 If you add enough energy to the molecule, it tends 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.679 to break the molecular bonds and it will eventually break 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:22.360 apart into its individual elements. Most molecules will do this. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.480 If you if you pour in enough energy. That's going 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:30.799 to be another important point later on. So Grove he theorized, well, 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.280 if you if you add electricity to water and you 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:37.200 get hydrogen and oxygen. Uh, if you if you then 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.280 combined hydrogen and oxygen, you should get water and electricity, 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.080 you know, because you know it should be the same 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.880 coming out as it is going in. Right, So if 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.120 you're yeah, So he's like, well, um, how he rans 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.400 some experiments and he created what he called a gas 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.880 voltaic battery and in this gas will take battery. He 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.240 then combined hydrogen and oxygen and he really is that 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.720 he got water and he got free electrons, which you know, 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.440 if you direct free electrons through a path, that's electricity. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:09.280 So it's signed a little sign on the side of 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.880 the said electrons free. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's a protest 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:17.800 held off the cell. Fifty years later you get uh, 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.840 Ludwig Mond and Charles Langer and they're they're the ones 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.280 who coined the term fuel cell. Those are the guys 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:28.840 who actually found a fairly practical way to do this. 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.680 Uh that was easily repeatable, so you could you could 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.840 repeat the experiment improve. Yes, something is happening here, because 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.080 of course we know in science, just because you get 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.640 a result doesn't necessarily mean that you have proven your 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.240 hypothesis correct. You need to have a repeatable experiment that 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.520 can be done by anyone who has the facility to 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.520 do it at any rate um to prove that that 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.120 something really is going on. Yes, So that's where we 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.120 get into the fuel cells and unlike battery, like a 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:04.800 battery is a self contained mean chemical reaction. Uh, and yeah, 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.280 it's chemical reaction. It can very good. Well, I mean 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:12.080 nothing's going in, nothing's going out except electrons, right, yeah. Yeah, 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:16.200 The battery has chemicals inside it that react together. The 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.359 reaction produces electrons, and that is where we get you know, 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.800 our little electric power from a battery. Fuel cells are 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:29.360 a little different. You can pour fuel into a fuel cell, 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.560 thus the name, and it will convert that fuel into 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.120 the water and the electricity. So as long as you 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.760 have a supply of hydrogen and a supply of oxygen 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.600 going into the fuel cell, and as long as the 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.880 membrane of the fuel cell and the other components remain 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.599 remain viable. We'll get into that in a little bit. Uh, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.520 it should continue to to produce electricity. It's not gonna 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:57.160 it's not like it'll die. After all the hydrogen runs out. 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.839 If you add more hydrogen and more oxygen, it should 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:04.520 can to new to work. Right. Okay, so we've covered 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.919 the basics there. Uh, let's let's talk. I'm gonna shift 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.320 my notes around. I actually have paper notes today. I 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.880 usually don't do this. Uh. Let's talk about the various 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.280 components within a fuel cell. Okay, we can do that, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.839 all right. We've got the anode. Yes, Uh, the anode, 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.440 It that's the that's the negative post, not meaning that. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.440 I know, I was trying to listeners. I apologize. I 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.480 was finish. I mean, we all suffered for that besides Chris, 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.400 um no, no, no, it was good. So that's what's 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.120 conducting the electrons and that that get freed from the hydrogen. 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.600 So the anodes on one end. On the other end 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.400 is the cathode. Yes, that's the positive post. So that's 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:52.000 where the hydrogen. Uh. This, this is what's conducting the 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.560 electrons back from the external circuit. So I'm sorry. We've 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.920 got we've got the anode. That's where when the electrons 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.320 come out from the reaction, electrons go to the end, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:04.040 would go into a circuit. So what electric motor or 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.760 a light bulb or whatever. Right, Um, the electrons continue 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.840 their path once they go through that circuit to the cathode. Uh. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.640 Then we've got the electrolyte uh in the center. This 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:20.080 is a usually approach a proton exchange membrane. Thing of 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.480 the membrane is kind of like a force field. Now 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:26.160 this force field will, Yeah, the force field will allow 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:32.400 positively charged ions to pass through, but will repel negatively 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:38.160 charged particles. So electrons have a negative charge. They cannot 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.280 pass through the membrane. If they could pass through the membrane, 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.840 fuel cells would not work. It is the bouncer of 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.240 the fuel cell. Yes, you may not come in, but 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.560 we're not cool enough because you are negative exactly, but 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.800 the close enough. So the so the high hydrogen are 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.920 the hydrogen ions are positively charged because they have given 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.920 up an electron. All right. So now now essentially what 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.000 you have a hydrogen ion is essentially a proton. So 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.800 you've got a proton. Protons are positively charged. You've got 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.920 this puzzledly charged element there. It can pass through the membrane. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.720 Now why would it pass through the membrane to get 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:19.040 to the other side. But what's on the other side oxygen, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:25.200 and oxygen has a negative charge. That it exactly the 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:30.360 proton has attracted across the membrane to the negatively charged oxygen. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.640 If if there were no negative charge, then the proton 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:38.680 would not necessarily migrate through the membrane. So, uh, when 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.599 it migrates to the membrane, it then combines with the oxygen, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.199 and uh, you get the two hydrogens, the one oxygen 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.720 together and then the electron that had passed through the circuit. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.320 Remember it passed from the anode through the circuit into 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:58.040 the cathode. On that end, the two hydrogen atoms the 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:02.520 oxygen atom have combined into a molecule. The electron joins 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.400 that molecule, and that's when you get water, right, So 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.480 you don't have any free electrons at the end of 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.280 this process. It all recombines on the cathode end, and 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.640 that's where you get the water. There's one other element 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.880 that's important with this, that's the catalyst, and this is catalysts. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.040 What they do is they help reactions, right, the thing 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.480 that makes it possible to react. Yeah, otherwise you would 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.560 have to pour even more energy in in order for 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.959 this to to react and it wouldn't be viable at all. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.840 So it's a special material and it it helps this 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:36.000 reaction of oxygen and hydrogen. And in most fuel cells 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.760 that you that that people talk about tends to be 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.480 made out of platinum nanoparticles. Right. So a nanoparticle, of 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.679 course is insanely tiny, like tinier than the microscopic scopic scale, right, 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.960 but it is on a thin sheet of materials um 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:55.839 with as much area as exposed as possible to facilitate 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.480 more reaction. Right. So it's almost like you've spray painted 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.800 a sheet with platinum. And because you can imagine, that's 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.079 pretty expensive. Platinum is a precious met all, it's pretty rare. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.240 It's hard to get your hands on it. Even when 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.439 you're talking about nanoparticles, which are really tiny. You're talking 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.600 about billions of nanoparticles. Like a nanoparticle is not going 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.120 to do much for you. Um, so yeah, you definitely 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.640 want to maximize that service area in order to allow 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.400 the reactions between hydrogen and oxygen to to happen or 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.360 else your your fuel cell doesn't do anything all right, 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.680 So you're pouring hydrogen in, you you're pumping oxygen in. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.400 When I say pouring. I'm really mean pumping, because you're 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.920 probably pumping hydrogen gas. You're pumping both into this fuel cell. 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.920 They combine. You get the electrons, you get the water. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:48.079 So why don't we have lots and lots of fuel 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:52.280 cells already running all all of our power, all of 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.800 our electronics. You've already hit on it. Why is that? 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.320 What was that? The biggest one being the cost? That 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.360 would be a huge one. Yeah, the platinum, that kind 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.839 of it's simply not it's simply not practical, right, Yeah, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.120 you get down to it, You're like, well, in a 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.960 in an ideal world, we cost would not be would 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.520 not even be a consideration, right, we would just be 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.120 talking about the fact that this is clean energy that 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.400 we have and uh, and we could run our cars 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.080 or other devices, our homes, even powered plants, we could 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.000 run them on hydrogen and uh and then we we 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.520 not pollute and we'd have a nice clean energy source. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.760 But it comes down to the fact that cost is 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:36.000 an element. It's not the only one, of course. The Yeah, 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:40.640 the whole process of of splitting the water into two pieces. Yeah, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.840 but you know that's actually is I guess should be 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.560 the source of hydrogen more than anything else. Yeah, source 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.880 of hydrogen is a huge, huge problem. Hydrogen does not 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:55.120 It's plentiful, but not in its elemental form on Earth. 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.559 It's usually combined with something else like oxygen to make water. 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.520 We we it's not like there's a hydrogen mind we 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.600 can go to and mind hydrogen, pure hydrogen and use 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.760 that we when we we can get hydrogen from stuff 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.080 like hydrocarbon fuels or even water, as we pointed out 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.920 by breaking down compounds, right, which takes energy. Right, So 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.680 in order to get this fuel cell fuel, you already 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.880 have to expend energy to create the fuel. So now 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.440 you're now you're looking at a fuel like an energy 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.440 deficit situation. Does it take more energy to create the 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.880 fuel than the energy you will get by using that 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.520 fuel to power a fuel cell? And as long as 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.000 it takes more energy for you to create the fuel 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.240 than it does to actually power whatever it is you're 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.240 going to power, it doesn't make sense. We already have 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.440 a fuel that does this, by the way, gasoline. Gasoline. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.679 Actually it actually takes more energy to create a gallon 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.480 of gas than a gallon of gas can create through 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.920 putting it through a motor or whatever. Yeah, because gasoline 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.160 is a pretty inefficient fuel, it turns out, especially compared 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.920 to a fuel cell, and you have to again look 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.160 at the entire life cycle. You're not just looking at oh, well, 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.800 how much how much energy did it take to ship 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.160 the gasoline from the refinery to the UH to the 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.120 gas station. It's also how much energy did the refinery 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.520 have to expand in order to produce that gasoline? How 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.760 much energy had to be expanded to to get the 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.360 oil out of the ground to eventually become what would 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:30.120 what would eventually become gasoline. Um, it's really a big 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.360 picture thing, and that's that's the real problem with a 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.480 lot of these energy issues, is that once you start 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.080 looking at the big picture, you begin to realize, oh, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.240 this is this is a much more difficult problem than 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:44.080 I originally imagined. Um. Now, there are many different kinds 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.280 of fuel cells. Yeah, I thought I thought we were 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:48.880 getting ready to hit that because the one that we've 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.880 been talking about, I guess, probably without actually saying its name, 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.840 is the polymer electrolyte membrane fuel cell. Right. Also sometimes 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.560 it's called the polymer exchange membrane fuel cell UM. But 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:06.360 saying why membrane in the exchange. Okay, I got it. Yep, 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.040 that's it. They're used in cars a lot, right, Yeah, 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.160 that's that's kind of the stuff we're looking at cars. See, now, 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.800 some of these fuel cells work really well at a 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.720 certain temperature range, and outside that temperature range, they don't 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.960 work very well at all. Now, the polymeer exchange has 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:26.120 a couple of different issues that make it not the 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.840 most ideal method of power generation within a car. And 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.680 I'll one of those is that, um, well, I mean 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.080 it's heat range is okay, because it's it works best 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.360 somewhere around uh a hundred for you, two d seventy 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:45.680 degrees fahrenheit, So you could you would first have to 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.040 heat your fuel cell up to this temperature for it 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.040 to be able to to work properly. So there there 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.080 is a warm up period. It's not like it's gonna 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.080 work immediately as you get in your car. One of 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.960 the things about the polymer exchange membrane fuel cell is 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.400 that it has to have a hydrated membrane. The membrane 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:07.520 must remain hydrated, which means essentially wet. All right, So 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.760 if you live in Minnesota, you know, the winners in 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:15.320 Minnesota get really cold. And when you get really cold 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:20.080 and you've got water, you know what happens. It freezes. Yeah, 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.640 it doesn't happen much here in Atlanta, but up in 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:27.640 Minnesota it could. Yes, if the temperature fell far enough 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.080 the water used to hydrate that membrane. And remember the 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.200 membrane is key to this, uh, to this exchange. If 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.280 the water could freeze, that would make the membrane extremely 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.440 brittle and it could break, and then you've got a 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.640 broken fuel cell, right, so that he's problematic. Yeah, that's 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.600 a bit of an issue. And there are other types 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.240 of fuel cells. There's the solid oxide fuel cell. Yeah, 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.160 this is this is one of my favorites. This would 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.960 not work well in the car. No, no, not at all, 0:15:56.080 --> 0:16:01.000 um simply the uh, simply because it requires so much 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.920 more in the way of temperature for it to operate. Yeah, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:10.640 it operates best between seven D and a thousand degrees centigrade. Yes, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:15.320 that's a that's pretty warm. Yeah, no, it's pretty pretty steamy. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.400 But but steam, now that you mentioned that, see that 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.920 that generates uh, you know steam as a resulting that 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.560 can be used to create electricity as well. Yeah, you 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.520 can use the steam to generate too, to push turbines, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.400 or you could even use the steam, well not just 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.080 or and you could use the steam to help heat 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.120 uh the facility. So let's say it's in the dead 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.600 of winter. Uh, the steam coming from this reaction could 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.920 go back into the heating unit to try and keep 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.920 the plant warm, so that you don't have to generate 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.240 you don't have to burn as much energy to keep 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:53.600 the plant running. Right right now, Uh, they're not as 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.080 efficient or they're not it's it's not cost effective yet. 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.920 The cost effectiveness of the solid oxide fuel cell. Um 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:07.200 that the target is four dollars per killer? What right 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.400 now it's about ten times that? Is that four thousand 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.800 dollars per kill? A what to run one of these things? Um, 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.200 that's a problem. Well. Um. I'd also like to point 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.240 out that the solid oxide fuel cells have been in 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.240 the news recently in a in a pretty big fashion. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:25.760 As a matter of fact, I believe we've talked about 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.480 one on this podcast not too long ago. The bloom box, Oh, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:35.760 the bloom box bloom energies. Bloom box fuel cells are 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.359 solid oxide fuel cells, and I don't know that they 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.320 run exactly the same way as the information in our 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.000 article about that on our side, I don't slightly different process. 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:47.960 They probably do because the ones that we're talking about 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.119 are mainly um. The solid oxide tends to often be 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.639 used to come in the form of coal, so you 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.080 actually have coal running a fuel cell, which you know 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:58.960 you first sit there and think like, WHOA, that's weird. 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.480 I thought we were going to try to get away 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.960 from fossil fuels. Not necessarily. In some cases, we may 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.160 have to use fossil fuels to create the hydrogen or 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:08.879 whatever the compound is that we're going to use in 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.920 the fuel cell, because hydrogen is not the only one, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.119 it's just the most popular one. Um. But we may 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.440 have to use fossil fuels in that process to generate 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.720 the fuel we need to run to to make the 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.760 fuel cells go. UM. There are other types as well. 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.840 There's the alkaline fuel cell. That's the kind that we're 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.720 that they that uh, the Space Race used quite a 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.119 bit back in the sixties. UM, not really use that 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:37.480 much anymore. It's not it's not as it's really expensive. 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:39.680 It's not as reliable as some of the other technologies, 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.920 as it requires pure hydrogen and oxygen. Yeah, pure hydrogen 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:44.720 and oxygen is hard to get your hands on or 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.359 at least the pure hydrogen is Um, there are fuel 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:54.480 cells that can use hydrogen that's not pure, but that 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.520 also tends to take its toll on the membrane. So again, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.760 the membrane is a is a fairly delicate part of 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.879 a few will cell and uh, if you damage that 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.040 that membrane, then the fuel cell is not gonna work anymore. Also, 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.320 I guess we should also point out that a fuel cell, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.880 when we're talking about a fuel cell, an individual fuel 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:14.000 cell does not generate that much power. It's when you 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.159 have a bunch of fuel cells working together that you 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.720 can generate enough electricity, essentially in an array. Yeah, a 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.200 fuel cell stack is usually what we call it. Uh 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:29.560 we being those of us in the fuel cell industry say, 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:33.359 and journalists, um, yeah, So an individual fuel cell is 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.960 like think of it, like we talked about cell processors. 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.639 A cell processor is just one part of a group 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.760 of processors that all work together, same sort of thing. 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.720 Fuel cell is just one little electricity generation device that 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.440 works with several others to create enough electricity to actually 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:53.880 do something. But you also have the molten carbonate fuel cell, 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.640 the phosphoric acid fuel cell, the direct methanol fuel cell. 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.840 These are all very sans um. They all basically do 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:04.800 the same thing, but they're doing it through different ways, 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.080 and some of them have different operating temperatures, different parameters. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.359 Some of them are more reliable than others, but they 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.560 require such a high operating temperature that you wouldn't want 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.720 to use in a car. Like you don't want to 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.840 use a solid oxide fuel cell on a car because 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.119 you would die. You would have to have such she 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.760 some sort of protective material to to shield you from 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.520 the heat that your car would weighe so much that 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:29.879 it wouldn't matter how much of the electricity you're generating, 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.080 because it wouldn't move anywhere. It's gonna say, you'd have 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.440 to use most of the power for your air conditioning, 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.120 you know. They either the air conditioning or just getting 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.679 the wheels to have enough torque to actually push that 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:45.560 incredibly heavy vehicle forward torque. Um. So then we have 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:50.600 the phosphoric acid fuel cell um and uh you know 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.480 those those are those are a little smaller. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:56.720 those aren't. Those aren't as huge, but they have such 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.639 a long went warm up time. Yeah. So again, if 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.639 you try idea, if used a phosphor. I guess that 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.159 Jill cell in your car, you'd have to start warming 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:06.320 up your car an hour before you were leaving, So 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.960 that's not really sort of impractical. Yeah, and the direct 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.159 methanol fuel cell, Uh, again we're talking about it's not 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.080 as efficient. It can um use methanol, but since since 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.800 the energy output isn't as great, it's not really seen 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.800 as a viable feel cell. Yeah, I've seen I've seen 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.680 some methanol fuel cells out and about. In fact, Uh, 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.840 when I went to the c E S in two 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.560 thousand and eight, um, I believe it was Toshiba, if 0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:36.800 I'm not mistaken, had a methanol fuel cell powered MP 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.840 three player on display, which was pretty cool. Um, you know, 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.080 it's not it's one of those things where you're like, really, seriously, 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.800 I have to pour methanol in this thing. But yeah, 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:47.639 I mean it's it was so small, you know, the 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:49.680 size of an MP three player that you know, I 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.840 couldn't imagine empowering you know, I'm building or a car. 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.600 It's much more tiny. But that's what they talked about 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:58.760 when they talk about the possibility of using fuel cells 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.000 to power say, laptop computers and things like that. Yeah, yeah, 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.520 personal electronic devices, that kind of stuff. It still it 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.520 still seems odd to me that you would, you know, 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.200 flip your laptop over and pourans and meth at all, 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:11.320 And I guess it would probably be an external supply 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:16.760 of some sort. My MP three player has a drinking problem. 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:21.159 I'm gonna talk very briefly about about the efficiency of 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.600 a fuel cell. This is kind of a complicated topic, 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.760 but let's uh, fuel cell efficiency depends on a lot 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:29.840 of different factors. Let's say that you have a fuel 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:32.439 cell that runs on pure hydrogen, and somehow you have 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:36.280 a reliable source of pure hydrogen, so you don't you know, 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:39.800 there's no problem with actually getting fuel for it, so 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:44.080