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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: I Never told you production of iHeart Radio, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to another edition of Monday Many Where. Yes, we're going

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Speaker 1: down a little dark path, so let's go ahead and

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Speaker 1: give you a content warning for domestic violence of oas women,

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Speaker 1: mentions of sexual assault and harassment, and we are talking

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Speaker 1: about specific cases of in cell mass shooters. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not your GM. I get it. If that's not

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Speaker 1: what you need to here today, I get that too,

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Speaker 1: So you might want to bypass this. But the reason

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Speaker 1: we are talking about this today, the National Threat Assessment

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Speaker 1: with the Secret Service actually recently released a new study

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Speaker 1: about in cells, or anti feminist groups. Recently because of

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Speaker 1: this report, we wanted to come out and talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about it. Um And just as a reminder,

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Speaker 1: in cell is defined as a member of an online

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Speaker 1: community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract

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Speaker 1: women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward

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Speaker 1: women and men who are sexually active. Um. And of

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Speaker 1: course that kind of gets a little bit bigger when

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Speaker 1: we talk about the whole understanding of involuntarily celibate blaming women.

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Speaker 1: All Right, we also have that conversation about the nice guy,

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote nice guy, and of course the conversation

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Speaker 1: we've had about not all men, but all men. And

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Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about that before we start, though,

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Speaker 1: I did want to kind of talk about this article, Andy,

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Speaker 1: Are you ready for it? I hope so. Yes, No

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Speaker 1: one really is, as are they. But they've been reporting

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Speaker 1: about this specific study that had just been released. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I want to read the article written in Reuter's

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Speaker 1: that was released on March fifteen. So, the U S

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Speaker 1: report identifies misogynists in cells as violence threat. So misogynists

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Speaker 1: extremists like the in cell who murdered two women and

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Speaker 1: injured for more at the Florida yoga studio presents signs

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Speaker 1: that can be detected to reduce the likelihood of violent crimes.

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Speaker 1: A new US government report says. The findings came in

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Speaker 1: a National Threat assessment released by the U S. Secret

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Speaker 1: Service on Thursday. So that means of the March fift

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Speaker 1: week based on a case study of the twenty eighteen

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Speaker 1: shooting at the Tallahassee Hot yoga studio, where a fourty

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Speaker 1: year old former U. S Army officer opened fired and

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Speaker 1: then killed himself and y'all. The report is actually titled

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Speaker 1: hot Yoga. So when I was looking this up, I

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Speaker 1: was really confused. Was not funny, But go like, why

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Speaker 1: did you title it like this? Okay, I guess it's

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Speaker 1: better than saying the name of the dude. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It seems weird for whatever. So in the report, it

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Speaker 1: says hatred of women and the gender based of violence

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Speaker 1: that is associated with it requires increased attention from everyone

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Speaker 1: with a role in public safety. The talahassee killer fit

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Speaker 1: the profile of an involuntary celibate or an in self

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Speaker 1: for sure. Men who are unable to achieve a romantic

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Speaker 1: and or sexual relationship to which they feel entitled, also

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Speaker 1: known as anti feminists in sales, can espouse a specific

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Speaker 1: type of misogynistic extremism. They communicate with each other through

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Speaker 1: the online meno sphere, with an array of forums that

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Speaker 1: promote male dominant views, extreme ideologies of anti women, hatred

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Speaker 1: and sexual objectification of women, and calls for violence. The

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Speaker 1: threat is represented not just in high profile cases, but

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Speaker 1: in more common crimes such as stalking or domestic abuse.

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Speaker 1: Responding to the threats required collaboration from law enforcement. The courts,

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Speaker 1: mental health providers, and advocates working against domestic violence and

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Speaker 1: hate crimes. So this is in the report. UM. And

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Speaker 1: besides the obvious displays of extreme misogyny, a potential attacker

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Speaker 1: may show signs of trouble through other behaviors, including despair,

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Speaker 1: a need for belonging or connection with others, a desire

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Speaker 1: for attention or notoriety. The talent has a shooter. A

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Speaker 1: self described misogynists had raised concerns for years from his parents, employers, classmates,

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Speaker 1: and the military, and the school district where he was

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Speaker 1: a substitute teacher. So that's the actual article about it,

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Speaker 1: and um within the actual study case. So they go,

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Speaker 1: they break down all of the events of this dude's life.

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Speaker 1: Then they break down the days before and after. He

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Speaker 1: also had not through surprising a lot of things posted

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Speaker 1: or blogged about his hatred of women and and wanting

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Speaker 1: to find justice. But he as unstable as he was.

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Speaker 1: What's what we would consider accomplished, if you will. So

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Speaker 1: he was an eagle scout in high school. He was

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Speaker 1: a senior class vice president. He was an athlete in football.

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Speaker 1: He had a bachelor's degree and two master's degree. He

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Speaker 1: was a U. S. Army officer and became a public

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Speaker 1: school teacher. So just like by record alone, he seemed

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Speaker 1: to be okay, quote unquote, But of course in this

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Speaker 1: report they talked about some really big red flags that

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Speaker 1: was ignored, including the fact that one of his best

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Speaker 1: friends had received a link from him which talked about

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Speaker 1: the violence that he wanted to commit, and the girlfriend

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Speaker 1: of the friend reported him to the police. Yet nothing happened,

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Speaker 1: and he was able to buy a weapon which caused

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Speaker 1: all this destruction. And in the same report that details

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Speaker 1: that it actually says in the conclusion, uh the case

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Speaker 1: study also highlights the specific threat posed by misogynistic extremism,

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Speaker 1: hatred of women and the gender based violence that is

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Speaker 1: associated with it requires increase attention from everyone with a

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Speaker 1: role in public safety. Regardless of whether an individual self

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Speaker 1: affixes and labeled to their extremist beliefs such as in

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Speaker 1: cel or anti feminists, the individual's behavior should remain the

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Speaker 1: primary focus. So and then it talks about conducting a

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Speaker 1: behavior that assessment involving individuals who has elicited concerns and

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Speaker 1: subscribes to extreme behaviors um and that it shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: limited to the ideology itself, and I think that's really

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Speaker 1: important that we talked about that. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that they took the one case when we know

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Speaker 1: there's been so many other cases that has happened, as

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Speaker 1: we said, as Atlanta, the Atlanta shootings, as well as

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Speaker 1: what happened with the Canadian shootings in California as well

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Speaker 1: Virginia Tech. There's so many examples of concerns that we

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Speaker 1: really need to have a conversation about. And even though

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Speaker 1: this is a step in trying to actually identify this harmful, harmful,

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Speaker 1: harmful and really dangerous group of community, there's just also like,

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Speaker 1: like the article said, it's too broad, it's it's too focused,

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Speaker 1: because this is a whole bigger, broader topic because it's

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Speaker 1: not just extremists, right. I remember when we did that

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Speaker 1: episode on Enzels and we were both scared, like we

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Speaker 1: were afraid of what would have happen to us, and

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Speaker 1: to me that like a lot of women have been

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Speaker 1: dealing with this problem for a long time and we've

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Speaker 1: known about it, and it's kind of frustrating, like I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to see this step, but it's kind of like, well, yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why we haven't. This hasn't happened already

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Speaker 1: when we have all of these examples and we have

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Speaker 1: all of this toxic stuff that we bring up and

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Speaker 1: especially like on this show, and as you said, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's bigger than just one group because when we

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Speaker 1: talk about gaming and you know, like gamer gay, there's that,

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Speaker 1: and like in every aspect of industry almost like every

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Speaker 1: part of our lives, it exists, um, and it's part

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Speaker 1: of that kind of rape culture patriarchy thing we talked

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Speaker 1: about all the time. But like this I feel like

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Speaker 1: should have been like yes, and sales are bad should

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Speaker 1: have been a thing. It should be and it should

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Speaker 1: be modern. He like he had his whole plan essentially

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Speaker 1: just out there talking about how he was going to

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Speaker 1: punish women because they didn't want him, uh, and punishment

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Speaker 1: that were in his way essentially or better looking than him.

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Speaker 1: But that's even bigger in that conversation of how quickly

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Speaker 1: do we take something and say this is serious, Like

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Speaker 1: y'all think it's joke, but it's not. And we needed

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Speaker 1: to have this conversation. So in TikTok right now, how

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Speaker 1: always bringing it back of TikTok and my Monday manis.

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Speaker 1: Apparently there was a trend and it was pretty much

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Speaker 1: made up of younger folks. So when I say younger,

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Speaker 1: I mean like probably fresh out of high school, if

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Speaker 1: not still in high school, maybe early college, like that

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Speaker 1: group of people that have been posting behind the song

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Speaker 1: that's supposed to be like, you know, no one can

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Speaker 1: treat you better than this type of conversation, and it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be kind of a oh I wish you

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Speaker 1: would see me, I guess song I don't know, like

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Speaker 1: too deep. Like the minute you hear this tune, it's

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Speaker 1: been trending and in it it shows a dude or

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Speaker 1: a person. Typically it's a dude. That's the ones I've

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Speaker 1: seen just standing there and the little troubably what if

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Speaker 1: we went on a date? What if I took you

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Speaker 1: on this date? And for example, one of them said,

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Speaker 1: and I took you bowling and instead of throwing the

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Speaker 1: ball down, I crushed your head with the ball. Wouldn't

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Speaker 1: that be funny? And then there was another one about

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Speaker 1: what if we went swimming or boating and I drowned

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Speaker 1: you ha ha ha, And everybody was like, what the

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Speaker 1: hell is this? Hey TikTok, what the hell is this,

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Speaker 1: and many of them were not taken down. People took

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Speaker 1: it as a joke, and there are so many people,

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Speaker 1: including women, young women in there talking about it as

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Speaker 1: joke all much to be like, oh my god, that's

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Speaker 1: the perfect day, Oh my god, this is amazing, Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, you're so funny. And I'm most of the

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Speaker 1: majority of our generation. I think people who are about

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Speaker 1: you know and older, are like, what the this is

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Speaker 1: not funny, to the point that one of the creators

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Speaker 1: got so upset, and rightly so she would take those videos,

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Speaker 1: do with them or or stitched them, as they would

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Speaker 1: call it, either one of those, and put up actual

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Speaker 1: and dents that were similar to what they were quote

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Speaker 1: unquote joking about. So when we talked, there's so many

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Speaker 1: incidents of these things where women were pushed off a cliff.

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Speaker 1: We know this. We recently a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: we had a dude, a newlywed, who pushed his wife

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Speaker 1: off a cliff and we were like, what during his honeymoon.

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Speaker 1: We've had the incidents, you know, and we know that

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Speaker 1: the tighes target and those most endangered are are pregnant

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Speaker 1: and or in the middle of trying to separate so

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Speaker 1: those are the most vulnerable group of people, and when

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Speaker 1: we have these little jokes that really just desensitizes the

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Speaker 1: community about what is happening. Is such a bigger conversation,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that TikTok a giant platform, as we

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Speaker 1: talked about earlier, being one the biggest platform at one point,

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Speaker 1: allowing these videos to say that it doesn't hold any

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Speaker 1: violations is absurd. Sure, and he may not, they may

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Speaker 1: not be targeting specific people, but this rhetoric should a

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Speaker 1: be a red flag, should be flagged by the FBI

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Speaker 1: and or any kind of secure already. It should be

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Speaker 1: noted as this is bad and why do we think

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Speaker 1: this is funny? Yeah? Yeah, I've been thinking about that

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Speaker 1: a lot lately, and it kind of reminds me of

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Speaker 1: the episode we did on the Misogyny and like pop

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Speaker 1: punk emo music, where I loved a lot of that

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Speaker 1: music when I was a kid. When I got older,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is really toxic and damaging, and

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Speaker 1: it's sort of joking about violence against women, which is

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Speaker 1: being glorified as romantic as in he she didn't understand him,

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Speaker 1: so it was in his right to act in this

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Speaker 1: violent manner, and so many things, where as women were

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Speaker 1: on these platforms where it's just expected that will like

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Speaker 1: shrug off this joke that is real to us, that

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Speaker 1: is a something we deal with every day, and now

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Speaker 1: we're dealing with it on this platform, like we can't

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Speaker 1: escape from it, on this thing we used to escape from. Right,

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Speaker 1: I'm baffled that it took this long for us to

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Speaker 1: talk about this because this one shooting they were talking

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Speaker 1: about what was in een um. Several of the incidents

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Speaker 1: we've talked about was way back when. So the Virginia

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Speaker 1: text shooting happened in two thousand seven. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it was specifically an in cel incident, but he definitely

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Speaker 1: was unhappy and was kind of like, I can't get

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Speaker 1: a relationship. I'm not loved. Um. We also had again

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Speaker 1: Atlanta shooting and then the Island Vista shootings in fourteen.

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Speaker 1: So it's been around, and honestly, these are just classified

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Speaker 1: because they would be. There's probably so many more. And

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Speaker 1: we know when it comes to domestic violence, we know

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Speaker 1: when it comes to partner deaths, a lot of it

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Speaker 1: has the same little rhetoric of misogyny and hate for women, like,

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Speaker 1: let's just be very honest I just hate for women.

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Speaker 1: The Atlanta shooting is a prime example of hating women.

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Speaker 1: Hating women. He hated himself and that's what it became.

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Speaker 1: And it was very targeted. It was obviously very targeted

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Speaker 1: to Asian people, Asian women, which is a whole different conversation.

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Speaker 1: But that that's the that's the point of this is

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Speaker 1: it's been rolling out, it's been a conversation. It's been

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Speaker 1: something that we've been talking about, the same way as

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Speaker 1: we talk about Q and on as well as talking

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Speaker 1: about the January sixth insurrection as well as um the

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Speaker 1: anti abortion protesters and the bombings and such. These are

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Speaker 1: very heavily misogynistic leaning towards the anti women, anti feminist conversation,

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Speaker 1: and this is where we're at. But this is the

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Speaker 1: whole other point is I've just recently seen and it

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with this specifically, but I'm talking

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Speaker 1: more about the attitude, and I'm very upset. Actually, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna say anything specifically, but on our on my

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Speaker 1: personal like social media page, someone posted an article about

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Speaker 1: the Will Smith incident, and we're not talking about that

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Speaker 1: because that's not our lane. I'm gonna keep that here.

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Speaker 1: Most of this conversation is not our lane as not

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Speaker 1: a part of the black community. Uh myself who is

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Speaker 1: not disabled. Uh, I don't feel like this is our

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Speaker 1: lane honestly, other than we were shocked and like what

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Speaker 1: is going on? But the conversation about came out and

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Speaker 1: I think someone was talking about violence is not the answer. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, does she really need someone to stay speak

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Speaker 1: up for her? All these things? And there was a

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Speaker 1: woman on the comments talking about how oh I thought

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Speaker 1: the new feminist was supposed to be, you know, this

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Speaker 1: whole not that girl, and don't the pick me girls

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Speaker 1: and all of these things. It was so far off

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Speaker 1: that I was like, what is she trying to say?

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Speaker 1: And yes, it was a woman who identifies this woman,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of came back and try to read that.

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Speaker 1: What she was saying essentially was that, you know, women

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Speaker 1: don't need the people's protection. She should have had the

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Speaker 1: balls herself to handle it. She didn't need Well, it's

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Speaker 1: also a little bit misogynistic blah bah blah blah. So

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Speaker 1: it literally it has become a whole conversation about anti

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Speaker 1: feminism in this rhetoric, and it's no matter what the

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Speaker 1: sinnament that I'm like, how did we even Okay, I

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Speaker 1: kind of get this, but how did we get to

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Speaker 1: the point that we were victim blaming, like at this

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Speaker 1: point when she really other than being the person who

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Speaker 1: got focused on and it's about she really had nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with it. But yet you're using this as

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Speaker 1: this is why feminism is bad. Oh, look at this

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Speaker 1: new way feminism was, Like what yeah, yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: think we've seen a lot of that in these movements

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about, um, in these tragedies that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, where there's you know, the traditional wife getting

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Speaker 1: back to traditional feminine versus masculine um values and women

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Speaker 1: being a part of that as well, like you know,

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Speaker 1: wanting to get back to being the traditional wife and

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Speaker 1: kind of lampoon ng or like enacting even yeah violence

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Speaker 1: or even like online censorship or attacking for anyone who

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Speaker 1: is not doing that or in their mind failing again.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, this is that bigger conversation of thank god

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Speaker 1: the balance against Women's Act has come back, um, and

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Speaker 1: that there's a few more things that we could talk about.

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Speaker 1: Does it to eliminate a lot of work, yes, beyond,

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Speaker 1: but it's crawling his way to helping I guess um

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Speaker 1: and this infancy is what I mean. And I think

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Speaker 1: a part of this also when we talk about this,

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Speaker 1: is that we still have to have that same rhetoric

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Speaker 1: of when a woman goes through something so harmful, so triggering,

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Speaker 1: so traumatic, uh, that people's reaction is, well, you need

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Speaker 1: to do these things or these are the things that

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Speaker 1: you should have done, or why did you do these things?

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Speaker 1: And when that becomes a first response, that is the

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Speaker 1: head be laden misogyny, internalized misogyny that we need to

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Speaker 1: talk about. Let's give up terming things because I hate it,

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Speaker 1: this whole pick me Why do we even have that.

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Speaker 1: We don't need, I don't need to ostracize other women

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Speaker 1: who are just falling into that same internalized misogyny that

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Speaker 1: she can't let go of or they can't let go of.

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Speaker 1: And that's the problem that we should be addressing. I

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Speaker 1: know there's different ways to do it, and I know

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Speaker 1: some people will never let go of it, and that's

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Speaker 1: harmful and it makes me sad. But to term something

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Speaker 1: you're oh, you're pick me girl, is not helpful. This

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Speaker 1: again once again puts another woman against another woman. When

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Speaker 1: we start having those conversations and and it allows for

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Speaker 1: that this whole competing with women seeing this whether you

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Speaker 1: are a feminist, and then you to use that term,

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Speaker 1: it's not helpful. There's so many things that I see

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Speaker 1: unraveling obviously as we keep having these conversations, and I'm

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Speaker 1: really glad for it. I hate that they I know

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Speaker 1: why they did it, that they just took this one case,

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Speaker 1: but I hope they keep following these different cases and

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Speaker 1: we talk about the the issue, like finally approaching mask

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Speaker 1: shootings and mass killings in a way that's coming for

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Speaker 1: the underlying issues instead of just being like, oh, he

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Speaker 1: had a breakdown, he killed somebody, Let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: deep depth of it all and the idea that yeah,

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Speaker 1: this deep rooted misogyny, this hate for women in general,

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Speaker 1: and this hate for someone who you feel like should

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Speaker 1: be owned by you is the bigger conversation when it

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Speaker 1: comes to things like mass shooting. When you feel like

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Speaker 1: you've been wrong by something, most likely there was a

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Speaker 1: hate that was already there. Yeah, yeah, I hope that

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Speaker 1: we I hope that we follow through with this and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll keep having these conversations on here, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's disheartening. I know, I'm like preaching to

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Speaker 1: the choir, but it's disheartening because we've been saying it

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Speaker 1: all along, like we keep seeing the same thing, and

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Speaker 1: we keep just being like, well, we'll move on from

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Speaker 1: that until the next one, and we all know there's

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Speaker 1: going to be the next one. And that's like, I guess,

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Speaker 1: okay with us, right, I say, we definitely have to

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Speaker 1: keep paying attention to reports like this and talk about

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Speaker 1: these because it does encourage more data and hopefully more

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Speaker 1: funding to find out what's going on. Of course, a

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Speaker 1: part of that is, hey, he was able to access

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Speaker 1: gun pretty easily, um when he had already some accusations,

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Speaker 1: wrongful accusations as a substitute teacher and such. So there's

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Speaker 1: a whole other conversation to be had on that. But hey, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: and also a lot of them have a history of

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Speaker 1: domestic abuse, and again, right for not listening to women

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Speaker 1: are giving them where they feel safe enough to come

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Speaker 1: forward with those accusations. Essentially, I mean, for this case

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Speaker 1: in itself, not only did we talk about the friend's wife,

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Speaker 1: by the way, one of the friend's girlfriends, the one

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Speaker 1: who had to report another friend, and that's a whole

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Speaker 1: different conversation in itself, but his parents, it's included his

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Speaker 1: mom would hide away from him and then also hide

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Speaker 1: the other girls away like young nieces and such. That's

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Speaker 1: a huge tell tale side. Again, though, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to focus too in on this, like, yes, that seems obvious,

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Speaker 1: but even with the obvious, no one did. There's oftentimes

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Speaker 1: those who want to pretend like the nice guy that

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Speaker 1: you should be able to quote unquote trust that are

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Speaker 1: just as so when we talk about all men. Is

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Speaker 1: not that all men are bad, but we have to

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Speaker 1: assume all men are bad for our own safety. Yes,

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Speaker 1: oh well it's heavy one, but necessary. You know, I

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Speaker 1: love being a downer. No, no, it's great. We need

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Speaker 1: it well. Listeners, If you have any thoughts on this,

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Speaker 1: if you have any ideas for subjects we should talk about,

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Speaker 1: please email as our emails Stephanie and mom step at

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Speaker 1: I hurt me dot com. You can also find us

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at moms to podcast, or on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: stuff one never told you. Thanks it's always to hers

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Speaker 1: and producer Christina, thank you and thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Stephane told me his production of I Heart Radio for

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Speaker 1: more podcast on my Heart Radio because heart radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or radio. Listen to your favorite shows