Speaker 1: If you just tuning in a Civic Cipher, I am
Speaker 1: your host, Ramsey's job. He is Ramsay's job. I am
Speaker 1: q Ward. You our friends are listening to Civic Cipher
Speaker 1: and we appreciate that, and be sure to stick around
Speaker 1: because we got a lot more in store for you.
Speaker 1: As promised, we are going to be talking about that incident,
Speaker 1: very very heartbreaking incident of the police officer who was
Speaker 1: caught laughing at twenty three year old Jenavi Hondula in
Speaker 1: Seattle after she was hit by another police car and
Speaker 1: gued his conversation over the phone that was recorded by
Speaker 1: his camera caught him like laughing and just kind of
Speaker 1: making light of her life. I'm also going to share
Speaker 1: a story about the DC police trainer who ended up
Speaker 1: shooting a black mother who was a police trainee in
Speaker 1: the training class. And we're going to have a conversation
Speaker 1: about police training and how effective it is. So that
Speaker 1: and so much more to stick around for. And foremost
Speaker 1: we are going to discuss ba BA becoming a better
Speaker 1: ally BABA and today's BABA is sponsored by Friends of
Speaker 1: the Movement to support Black Businesses and Allied businesses. Sign
Speaker 1: up for the free voter wallet from fotmglobal dot com
Speaker 1: and make an impact with your spending again. That's Fotmglobal
Speaker 1: dot com. And today's reading comes from Black Enterprise. Georgetown
Speaker 1: University and the Jesuits have pledged twenty seven million dollars
Speaker 1: in money and land donations to the descendants of nineteenth
Speaker 1: century enslaved people who were sold to fund the highly
Speaker 1: prestigious institution. According to C and N Descendants, The Descendants
Speaker 1: Truth and Reconciliation Foundation confirmed the gift of ten million
Speaker 1: dollars from Georgetown in an additional seventeen million and the
Speaker 1: Jesuits in the form of financial retribution and plantation land. Quote.
Speaker 1: These contributions from Georgetown University and the Jesuits are a
Speaker 1: clear indication of the role Jesuits and other institutions of
Speaker 1: higher education can play and supporting our mission to heal
Speaker 1: the wounds of racism in the United States, as well
Speaker 1: as a call to action for all the Catholic Church
Speaker 1: to take meaningful steps to address the harm done through
Speaker 1: centuries of slaveholding. Monique Trustclaire Maddox, CEO of the Descendants
Speaker 1: Truth and Reconciliation Foundation and share of its board of directors,
Speaker 1: said the donations helped to be a hope to be
Speaker 1: a crucial step in rectifying the injustice enacted upon two
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy two enslaved men, women and children sold
Speaker 1: from Jesuit plantations to settle Georgetown's debts in eighteen thirty eight.
Speaker 1: So yeah, baba, becoming a better ally is owning your
Speaker 1: past reparations and sharing those injustices, because having the conversations
Speaker 1: is what allows us to heal. And if Georgetown University
Speaker 1: is going for first Soviet, if.
Speaker 2: Only that way of thinking, it could be more widely adopted,
Speaker 2: more prevalent something. Okay, so let's talk about this story.
Speaker 1: And I know you saw the video. Talk us through
Speaker 1: the video, uh, the officer's conversation, How well, talk to
Speaker 1: us about how you felt when you first saw that,
Speaker 1: because you're the one that sent it to me.
Speaker 2: I wonder a lot of times when we see some
Speaker 2: of these videos, especially when their police body cams, if
Speaker 2: they completely forget that they're wearing them. Because it seemed
Speaker 2: like the officer was having a conversation with himself making
Speaker 2: light of it. And I know that to another officer,
Speaker 2: but it was like, if I make light of it,
Speaker 2: I can feel better about it right, like it was
Speaker 2: almost like convincing himself or themselves that this young lady
Speaker 2: didn't have any work, so that sleeping better at night
Speaker 2: would be easier. And if you guys have ever heard
Speaker 2: Ramses describe anything being killed, not just the person, anything
Speaker 2: with the conscience, anything that's alive, that thing ceasing to
Speaker 2: be alive, should be recognized and talked about with the
Speaker 2: gravity with which Ramses does so. I've always noticed that
Speaker 2: through all of my years talking to him. When talking
Speaker 2: about something ceasing to exist, and I use those words intentionally,
Speaker 2: he speaks about it like something that was once alive
Speaker 2: is no longer and that that life and that breath
Speaker 2: and that consciousness was snuffed out, was taken away, was
Speaker 2: made to stop. And Ramses also speaks about guns in
Speaker 2: a way that maybe more people should. The only use
Speaker 2: case for guns is murder. That's it. That's the only
Speaker 2: reason that they exist. And I'd imagine for some of
Speaker 2: these officers they have to remove the value of life
Speaker 2: to even be able to do the job, especially those
Speaker 2: who take life away like it has no worth. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's kind of self fulfilling. I don't think the first
Speaker 2: time you had that type of conversation was in the
Speaker 2: wake of that young lady being killed. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: way of life and a way of thinking for some officers.
Speaker 2: And what you heard is the quiet part out loud.
Speaker 2: So for those that may not know, let me give
Speaker 2: you the quick and dirty version of the story. So
Speaker 2: we're not going to say these officers' names because we
Speaker 2: don't want these people to get famous. We don't believe
Speaker 2: they deserve credit. It's the police. For everyone that feels
Speaker 2: like it's a bad apple. Look at our post about
Speaker 2: what happens to the good apples again. Follow us on
Speaker 2: social media at Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: Our social media has been kind of booming lately, and
Speaker 1: we appreciate everyone who's supported us again at Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: But I digress. The long and the short of it
Speaker 1: was there was an additional officer separate that we never
Speaker 1: saw video of or whatever. This officer was speeding through
Speaker 1: the city to get to some sort of emergency. Jenavi
Speaker 1: Candula was, if I'm not mistaken, crossing the street or
Speaker 1: something like that. The officer didn't see her and he
Speaker 1: ended up hitting her and that's how she lost her life.
Speaker 1: So there's something to be said about what are we
Speaker 1: willing to give up for police speeding through the city.
Speaker 1: I get that there's a there's some things that are
Speaker 1: very difficult to reconcile because police chases often ended people
Speaker 1: being hurt, people losing the life, even officers losing their lives.
Speaker 1: But that's what happened here. And this officer that we're
Speaker 1: talking about, what was recorded on his bodycam footage, well,
Speaker 1: it was discovered that he was recording on his bodycam footage.
Speaker 1: He was recalling having responded to that situation because he
Speaker 1: was the officer that they call in to assess the
Speaker 1: officer that was driving, to make sure that that officer
Speaker 1: hadn't been drinking or you know whatever. So basically he
Speaker 1: was the one who came to investigate the officer. So
Speaker 1: what he was saying was, well, let me read it,
Speaker 1: but she is dead, he said on January twenty third,
Speaker 1: before laughing, apparently in response to the person on the phone. No,
Speaker 1: it's a regular person, he said. Moments later, he replies, yeah,
Speaker 1: just write a check, and then he laughs. He goes
Speaker 1: on to say, yeah, eleven thousand dollars. She was twenty
Speaker 1: six anyway, and then he goes on to say she
Speaker 1: had limited value so you're just like it sounds you're
Speaker 1: hearing part of the conversation half the conversation. Well, that
Speaker 1: was what he was recording. Now, remember that this was
Speaker 1: January twenty third, and we're just getting the footage now.
Speaker 1: So not only does the family and the friends of
Speaker 1: Jenavi Candula have to relive all this because it's in
Speaker 1: the media again, the reason is because it gives you
Speaker 1: insight into how separate, how big the gap is between
Speaker 1: human being and police officer, because that level of disconnect
Speaker 1: can set in. I'm not going to say it does
Speaker 1: for all police officers, but there's definitely a mentality and
Speaker 1: a culture that exists behind that thin blue wall that
Speaker 1: we all know about and you all know about. Don't
Speaker 1: act like we're talking about police cover ups and police
Speaker 1: protecting each other. They know that this stuff is wrong.
Speaker 2: The police investigating, the police in and of it, Celsius
Speaker 2: a super bogus.
Speaker 1: And then as Q mentioned, they say the quiet part
Speaker 1: out loud, what is this? Eight nine months later we
Speaker 1: hear this how he really felt and granted, this wasn't
Speaker 1: a police shooting, This wasn't he didn't even have anything
Speaker 1: to do with her, He didn't have any reason to
Speaker 1: put this woman down. There is just no regard for
Speaker 1: human life. And that man carries a gun for a living.
Speaker 1: For a living, they pay him money to license to
Speaker 1: use it. Oh my god, he has qualified immunity, so
Speaker 1: if he uses it on the job, he cannot be
Speaker 1: held responsible for those actions. They have to go after
Speaker 1: the department and it has to be overwhelmingly negligent and
Speaker 1: criminal and beyond the reach of those police unions in
Speaker 1: order for him to even be held accountable.
Speaker 2: And then, as we've seen sentencing, thank you always lighter,
Speaker 2: thank you cue even when found guilty, even when convicted.
Speaker 1: Now there are people because we see all the trolls
Speaker 1: on the internet, and some people maybe they're not intending
Speaker 1: to be trolls, but you are. But there are people
Speaker 1: that ask questions that from their perspective, I guess I
Speaker 1: have to assume that this is all they know. Well,
Speaker 1: just don't break the law and you won't have to
Speaker 1: don't do crimes and you won't have these problems. Listen.
Speaker 1: That's like saying, remember when Paris Hilton wore a shirt.
Speaker 1: I think it was a mock up, but she had
Speaker 1: that shirt that said stop being poor. It was it.
Speaker 1: I think it was a joke, but it was. It
Speaker 1: was a meme a while back. Paris Hilton obviously is
Speaker 1: known for being very wealthy. Her being that wealthy, wearing
Speaker 1: a shirt that says stop being poor is extremely hurtful
Speaker 1: and extremely sensitive. Duh, And so saying stopped doing crime
Speaker 1: is like, uh, duh, I would I I was, matter
Speaker 1: of fact you, I'll tell you this. I was talking
Speaker 1: to a father and son duo today for the Black
Speaker 1: Information Network Daily podcast, and I believe their names are
Speaker 1: Tony Lewis Junior and Tony Lewis Senior if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 1: So please, for those of you who feel so inclined,
Speaker 1: check out the Black Information Network Daily podcast look for
Speaker 1: those names. Amazing story. The father was sentenced to life
Speaker 1: in prison for selling marijuana. Wow, life in prison? Okay,
Speaker 1: he spent thirty four years in prison. He went to
Speaker 1: prison very young, spent thirty four years for selling marijuana,
Speaker 1: and obviously that was an unfair sentence. His son worked
Speaker 1: to get him out and he was on that other podcast.
Speaker 1: But that man told me something that stays with me.
Speaker 1: He said, I was poor, I'm was struggling. I was
Speaker 1: old enough to do something I saw some people doing
Speaker 1: some stuff. That was it that there was no other
Speaker 1: basis for economic advancement. And I don't want to live
Speaker 1: with roaches, and I don't want to live with rats,
Speaker 1: and that seems like the only thing that I can do,
Speaker 1: so I do it. So to those people that say, well,
Speaker 1: just don't do crime, you know you have to understand
Speaker 1: the entirety of the situation. I either live like this
Speaker 1: until I die, or I do my best. I roll
Speaker 1: the dice and I try to get better. But if
Speaker 1: that's the narrative that you insist on having, then let's
Speaker 1: talk about fair sentencing across the board. Because we know
Speaker 1: the criminal justice system treats you worse. The darker you are,
Speaker 1: the poorer you are, sad truth right, the less attractive
Speaker 1: you are, that's another one. And these things are that's
Speaker 1: not Rams's opinion. These these are objective facts. You could
Speaker 1: look them up there, documented by the government agencies dot gov.
Speaker 1: I got to look this stuff up all the time.
Speaker 1: I promise I wouldn't lie to you. Okay, but then
Speaker 1: let's still don't have to take our order for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: look at yourself. Please help me do my job. But
Speaker 1: we'll take it a step further, Let's talk about if
Speaker 1: you're going to roll the dice because you have limited options.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about how the police enforce whatever it is
Speaker 1: that they're enforcing. Let's talk about whether or not the
Speaker 1: police hold humanity at the center of their approach. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about the Stanford experiments, if we're being honest in brief,
Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with the Stanford experiments, it took
Speaker 1: place a Stanford University in California, and it was a
Speaker 1: social experiment used a professor took students, just a bunch
Speaker 1: of a group of students, and made half of them
Speaker 1: prison guards and the other half inmates. And again everyone
Speaker 1: knew that it was an experiment, but the psychology of
Speaker 1: the people in power lording that power over people who
Speaker 1: were quote unquote guilty even though they knew they were
Speaker 1: fellow students. They're not really guilty in the real world.
Speaker 1: This experiment had the experiment had to be canceled because
Speaker 1: the guards became so corrupt. There were students, and the
Speaker 1: people across the hall in the cells were students too
Speaker 1: in the real world, and they all knew this, But
Speaker 1: that authority is extremely corruptive and policing. If we're being honest.
Speaker 1: The way recruitment works is they tend to attract bullies.
Speaker 1: Why do you think police are the number one wife
Speaker 1: beaters in the world. I think certainly in this country
Speaker 1: it attracts a lot of bullies. Police got a long
Speaker 1: way to go before they're good. In my book, there's
Speaker 1: to have that standard.
Speaker 2: Well even objectively, you say book, and that makes it
Speaker 2: seem like something else, just based on statistics, based on numbers,
Speaker 2: based on the data that's provided. It's not about Ramsay's book.
Speaker 2: If you just objectively look at the data, like the
Speaker 2: percentage of you know, officers that are you know, involved
Speaker 2: with domestic violence, you know, a per capita data sample
Speaker 2: number one, but it's very high number one. That's not
Speaker 2: in Ramses's book. I want to I want to be clear,
Speaker 2: this is not Rammes's subjective opinion.
Speaker 1: Have a long way to go, period. But you know
Speaker 1: again that that bully, they attract that bully, like have
Speaker 1: you ever seen that punish your logo it's like a
Speaker 1: skull that police have. They put the patch on their
Speaker 1: stuff and you know that sort of thing. It's just
Speaker 1: a very very aggressive sort of culture. And that's that's
Speaker 1: a modern thing. That's a result of the militarization of
Speaker 1: the police, the radicalization of the police in this country,
Speaker 1: if I'm being honest, and it's a far cry from
Speaker 1: the neighborhood friendly policeman from the fifties and the forties.
Speaker 1: Even those guys were bad to blacken around people, but
Speaker 1: it got way worse, especially for us. And like you said,
Speaker 1: this officer was one of the people who said the
Speaker 1: quiet part out loud, no regard for the human element here,
Speaker 1: and this is the sort of thing that we've been
Speaker 1: trying to say. So even if for those people that
Speaker 1: troll us online and say, well, listen, man, that pregnant
Speaker 1: woman shouldn't have she should have just listened to the
Speaker 1: police and shouldn't have shoplifted from the store. Okay, fam
Speaker 1: So she deserved to die. The police get the best
Speaker 1: version of the story, and she gets the worst version
Speaker 1: of the worst optics, and the police get the best optics.
Speaker 1: Every time, you know, I'm sure that this guy is
Speaker 1: not going to There's nothing that's going to happen to
Speaker 1: this guy that's clearly doesn't hold a human life in
Speaker 1: any particularly positive light unless it maybe somebody knows.
Speaker 2: I mean, they'll do some form of pr Right, if
Speaker 2: I get a light suspension or a slap on the
Speaker 2: wrist of or just transfer, life won't changed way. That's
Speaker 2: you know, negative, He'll be fine. He'll continue to laugh
Speaker 2: at the loss of life for people who are, in
Speaker 2: his mind, beneath him.
Speaker 1: So watch this. There's another popular narrative that exists where
Speaker 1: people say, well, police, they just need better training. We
Speaker 1: need better trained officers. Well, listen, we talked about this
Speaker 1: on the show before. Remember Kim Potter Dante, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, Kim Potter, who I was upset because I thought
Speaker 2: we were giving her way too much benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was what I did. But I'll tell you
Speaker 1: why go ahead give.
Speaker 2: Oh No, that was just you know, the idea that
Speaker 2: maybe she'd made all these mistakes honestly, and her being
Speaker 2: the training officer, the supervisory officer, I just thought that
Speaker 2: was highly unlikely. Okay, So those things were done in
Speaker 2: good faith and that she didn't know the difference between
Speaker 2: her taser and her pistol.
Speaker 1: Okay, so real quick, Q's gonna You're gonna find out
Speaker 1: why Q's mad at me, because I do act you
Speaker 1: feel that way. But for those that don't remember this,
Speaker 1: is the video that we were able to see where
Speaker 1: there was a white officer woman who was trying to
Speaker 1: arrest Daunte Wright, a young black father. I believe it
Speaker 1: was in Minneapolis or somewhere in Minnesota. Somewhere in Minnesota.
Speaker 1: He tried to run away from the officers, that's the thing,
Speaker 1: and she like freaked out, got spooked. He was trying
Speaker 1: to jump in the car or something like that, and
Speaker 1: she know, taser, taser, taser, pulled out the gun and
Speaker 1: shot him. And then she started wailing like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to shoot him. I feel like that
Speaker 1: was an accident. Q. It doesn't like that. I give
Speaker 1: her that much grace. I want to take it a
Speaker 1: step further. Q. Go ahead, and you can yell at
Speaker 1: me in just a second. But the point with her
Speaker 1: was that she was responsible for the training, so she
Speaker 1: was the best training whatever. There's a story that I
Speaker 1: want to sure about a DC police trainer, Jesse Porter,
Speaker 1: who shot a young mother. She was the officer too,
Speaker 1: and he was training her. I'd believe to work in
Speaker 1: the library or something like that. He shot her like
Speaker 1: as a joke. He turned around, pulled out his gun.
Speaker 1: He says he meant to pull out his practice or
Speaker 1: dummy gun or something like that. He pulled out his
Speaker 1: real gun, shot her in the chest in the class,
Speaker 1: in front of everybody. There's a video of this. She
Speaker 1: dies on the floor and he's throwing his hands up like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I didn't There's no audio, so I
Speaker 1: don't know this is what he's saying, but you could
Speaker 1: see that. You know what a human being is going through.
Speaker 1: And you see his reaction to that moment, and everybody's
Speaker 1: freaking out, especially him. He tries to do CPR, that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. He was training the class. Okay, Also,
Speaker 1: this training narrative has existed since the fifties sixties civil
Speaker 1: rights movement. I looked it up. It's one of those
Speaker 1: political zombies that never dies. Like trickled down economic. It
Speaker 1: doesn't work. You've had decades to try it. It's not
Speaker 1: a real thing. Well, I tell you what. Police training
Speaker 1: doesn't work. I looked that up. I have a whole
Speaker 1: episode on that on the Black Information Network Daily podcast.
Speaker 1: I did the research. Police training does not work. In fact,
Speaker 1: the best results showed that officers' behaviors changed somewhat for
Speaker 1: about a month and then they reverted to type, and
Speaker 1: I think that's indicative of the overwhelming influence of police culture.
Speaker 1: When people talk about the system, I think that the
Speaker 1: culture is a big part of that. And so being
Speaker 1: a police officer taking a moment and ducking out and
Speaker 1: getting training here and there, that doesn't stick. What more
Speaker 1: than likely is going to stick is that culture. You
Speaker 1: get back in with your guys, you're moving around, you
Speaker 1: get you know, start consuming the same media and conversation
Speaker 1: with same people to feel the same way, and you're
Speaker 1: revert to type and back at it. And as we've seen,
Speaker 1: we can't even trust the training officers with a gun.
Speaker 1: So guns are dangerous. Police culture is dangerous, And there's
Speaker 1: a stunning silence from the masses. Not for me in UQ,
Speaker 1: but a stunning silence. There was a moment where some
Speaker 1: people became a little bit more critical in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: but all these police shootings that we've seen since then,
Speaker 1: no protests, no nothing, you know, I know that there's
Speaker 1: no pandemic.
Speaker 2: Even more strange than it was blaming the increase in
Speaker 2: police violence against citizens on the idea that we protested
Speaker 2: against man.
Speaker 1: I don't know how these these wicked, weird like do
Speaker 1: we not live in the same reality. How are you
Speaker 1: able to get that off and it float anywhere? But
Speaker 1: this is what we felt you needed to know today,
Speaker 1: so we'll leave it right there. As always, i'd like
Speaker 1: to thank you for tuning into CIVICXCPT once again, I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsay's Jah. I am q Ward. Thank you
Speaker 2: guys for joining us, like our stuff, comment, subscribe, follow
Speaker 2: us on social media, on all your digital podcasting platforms,
Speaker 2: and on radio stations all over the United States. Thank
Speaker 2: you guys for tuning in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that means a lot to us. And what
Speaker 1: we said, what we said, we really meant. If you've
Speaker 1: listened to this show, it really means a lot to us.
Speaker 1: To follow us on social media that includes YouTube. YouTube
Speaker 1: is a big one for us because we're really trying
Speaker 1: to grow there.
Speaker 2: The special for you guys on YouTube, So please follow.
Speaker 1: Us every every platform except Twitter. We don't do that.
Speaker 1: That's for the birds.
Speaker 2: Is that what it's called?
Speaker 1: Now? X whatever I think you said he's going to
Speaker 1: start charging people, But anyway, we're not on that one.
Speaker 1: We're on all the rest. Follow us on all the
Speaker 1: platforms like support, comment, help us battle these trolls. We're
Speaker 1: trying to change the world. We need your help and
Speaker 1: you can help us do it. So until next week, y'all.
Speaker 2: Peace,