1
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

2
00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

3
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

4
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

5
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:32,280
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

6
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,800
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

7
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

8
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

9
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,640
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

10
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

11
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,360
Speaker 1: for joining me for session four thirteen of the Arapy

12
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,480
Speaker 1: for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation

13
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:15,759
Speaker 1: afterword from our sponsors. Gut health is one of those

14
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 1: wellness terms we hear all the time, and honestly, it's

15
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: popular for a reason. Our gut isn't just about digestion

16
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,600
Speaker 1: like the rest of our organs. It's connected to the brain,

17
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 1: which means it can both reflect and impact our mental

18
00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: well being. The gut brain connection shows up in everyday life.

19
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,560
Speaker 1: Feeling queasy before a meeting or so stressed you don't

20
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 1: have an appetite. The two are always in constant conversation,

21
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: whether we realize it or not. So today I'm excited

22
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,080
Speaker 1: to welcome nutritional psychiatrist doctor Andy Watkins to help us

23
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 1: demystify all things gut health. We're chatting about what it

24
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 1: actually means to take care of your gut and how

25
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 1: doing so can help support your mood in your mind.

26
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,320
Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please

27
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: share with us on social media in the hashtag tvg

28
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 1: in session, or join us over in our Patreon channel

29
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 1: to talk more about the episode. You can join us

30
00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 1: at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot com. Here's our conversation. Well,

31
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 1: doctor Andy, thank you so much for joining us today.

32
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Thank you for having me today do our joy.

33
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I would love for you to get us

34
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,160
Speaker 1: started by telling us a little bit about your background

35
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,520
Speaker 1: and what brought you to the intersection between psychiatry and

36
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 1: good health.

37
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah sure. I am a North Carolina native born and

38
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,320
Speaker 2: raised in an environment where focused on community was the

39
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,360
Speaker 2: forefront of how we lived our lives. My father is

40
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 2: an licensed professional clinical counselor and it really kind of

41
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 2: helped me to understand the importance of mental health, and

42
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 2: so when I went into medicine, I wasn't sure that

43
00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,640
Speaker 2: I would be a psychiatrist, but over and over again,

44
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 2: being able to understand everyone's full lives was kind of

45
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,240
Speaker 2: what really motivate made me to go into this space.

46
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 2: I really was driven to go into gut health due

47
00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 2: to kind of a frustration around not being able to

48
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 2: true treat the root cause of a lot of symptoms

49
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,400
Speaker 2: for mental health. I felt like, you know, my patients

50
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,440
Speaker 2: were missing true treatment options that really leaded them to

51
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 2: whole healing. And so through research and continue to understand

52
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,840
Speaker 2: a little bit more knowledge around the impact of nutrition,

53
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,400
Speaker 2: I was able to stumble upon the knowledge base of

54
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,040
Speaker 2: the gut micro biome access and learning a little bit

55
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,959
Speaker 2: more about how gut health really truly is the root

56
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,280
Speaker 2: cause for a lot of noncommunical diseases, including psychiatry disorders.

57
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 1: Can you say more about some of the frustrations that

58
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:33,960
Speaker 1: you were seeing with some of your patients?

59
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely so in my space, right, So, if someone comes

60
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 2: to you for depression or anxiety, they oftentimes have other

61
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,440
Speaker 2: comorbi medical conditions, and so where you're doing in a

62
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 2: full evaluation, you learn a little bit more around their diet,

63
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 2: you learn around their life stressors, and you also understand

64
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 2: a little bit more about what risk factors they have,

65
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 2: and I would give an antipsychotic or you know, an

66
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 2: antidepressant to treat some of their symptoms. And oftentimes, even

67
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,760
Speaker 2: if people had some improvement in their symptoms, I was

68
00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 2: not getting seeing full recovery. And oftentimes when people were

69
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 2: on antidepressants for an extended period of time, they would

70
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 2: lose their effect, and so then we kind of go

71
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 2: back to the drawing board, and I got really frustrated

72
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 2: because I thought there should be more to this, and

73
00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,279
Speaker 2: also kind of when I was doing my one on

74
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 2: one visits, I would always do I would educate around

75
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,799
Speaker 2: nutrition because many people know that there are side effects

76
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 2: of antidepressants and antipsychotics, and a lot of them could

77
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,680
Speaker 2: be metabolic side effects. People would experience weight gain or

78
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,479
Speaker 2: it changes in their appetite, and so part of our

79
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,279
Speaker 2: routine management was kind of giving some guidance around what

80
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 2: foods to eat. And I noticed for the patients that

81
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 2: were eating healthier and kind of following a dietary of changes,

82
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,599
Speaker 2: they also improved in regards to their overall psychiatric symptoms.

83
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 2: At the same time, the scientific literature was coming out

84
00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 2: around inflammation being and root costs for a lot of

85
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 2: noncommunical diseases, and also looking at gut health as a

86
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 2: basis for the root costs for psychiatric disorders. So continue to,

87
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,839
Speaker 2: you know, do additional research. I thought, well, this is

88
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,600
Speaker 2: probably the route I need to go in regards to

89
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:05,479
Speaker 2: my treatment approach.

90
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,600
Speaker 1: And so you described the work you do as nutritional psychiatry.

91
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 1: So what might a typical session look like for you?

92
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a nutritional psychiatrist would do a full evaluation.

93
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,120
Speaker 2: You know, we want to know everything about the patient.

94
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,760
Speaker 2: We do what we call a diagnostic evaluation. So we

95
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,640
Speaker 2: would look at family history, social history, understand a lot

96
00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 2: about your lifestyle, what your current stressors are, and we

97
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,080
Speaker 2: also would do routine laboratory evaluation, just looking at the

98
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,160
Speaker 2: basis of your health. And then, of course what's essential

99
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,400
Speaker 2: for a nutritional psychiatrist, so we would recommend looking at

100
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,479
Speaker 2: a food law. You know, we want to know what

101
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 2: are you eating every day, what are your dietary patterns,

102
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 2: and what are the things that happen in your daily

103
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 2: life that lead you to eat what you eat? And

104
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,000
Speaker 2: from there, you know, we can kind of have a

105
00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 2: full assessment of what are the respectors for what you're

106
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 2: experiencing and what are some of the treatment approaches that

107
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,599
Speaker 2: we need to make to get you to whole healing.

108
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: And Doctor Andy, is there a lot of operation maybe

109
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,680
Speaker 1: with like somebody's primary care doctor, Like let's say they

110
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,920
Speaker 1: are already working on like managing blood pressure or clypsol

111
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 1: or things like that. Are you working a lot with

112
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,040
Speaker 1: the primary care physicians? Also?

113
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's an integrative approach because many people, as you know,

114
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,039
Speaker 2: we have this compartmentalized way of treating patients in the

115
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,320
Speaker 2: healthcare system. But you know, patients come for one thing,

116
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 2: but they also typically have other homer medical conditions. So

117
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 2: I would want to be able to speak with their

118
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,599
Speaker 2: primary care physician. I even do consultations with their therapist

119
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:34,960
Speaker 2: to understand what's going on with their life stressors and

120
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,200
Speaker 2: kind of what maybe potential trauma they might have experience,

121
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,839
Speaker 2: and so making sure that you know, we're all working

122
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,760
Speaker 2: together to ensure that the patient is getting a comprehensive

123
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 2: management of their treatment plan.

124
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,240
Speaker 1: Got it? And what do you think makes really focusing

125
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 1: on the guts so important, especially for the black community.

126
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,240
Speaker 2: I think what makes it so important for the Black community.

127
00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 2: It's just our respectors. So with gut health and it

128
00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,040
Speaker 2: being the base is for inflammation, we have to think

129
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 2: about it in regards to how stress leads to gut

130
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 2: dysfunction in our community. I think there's lots of stressors

131
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 2: coming at us, whether or not it's just from your

132
00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,360
Speaker 2: experience as a person of color, whether it's not generational

133
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 2: trauma that may be passed down, or just day to

134
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 2: day stress at work and other things like that. And

135
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 2: I think it's important to understand that all of these

136
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 2: things are competing against overall health because it does impact

137
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,640
Speaker 2: our gut. And so part of what I do, in

138
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 2: addition to changing what we eat, is understanding what your

139
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 2: stress life is, where the stressors are in your life,

140
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 2: and how to mitigate those stressors. Having a full understanding of,

141
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 2: you know, what kind of things can we do to

142
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,200
Speaker 2: manage our coping skills and get ourselves to a place

143
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 2: where stress does not end up being a day to

144
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 2: day experience for people and that typically is unfortunately an

145
00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 2: experience for people of color often more than not.

146
00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: You know, So we've talked a lot about the good,

147
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 1: but we haven't even done like a proper, like setting

148
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,320
Speaker 1: the foundation for like what do we mean when we

149
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:05,960
Speaker 1: were talking about the gut, because I think a lot

150
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: of us think, like, oh, digestion, like that is the

151
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: real function of the gut. But can you say what

152
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: you're referring to and like what is the function beyond

153
00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 1: just digestion.

154
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so most people think about the gut as far

155
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,559
Speaker 2: as digestion. The gut is essential for absorbing nutrients. Whatever

156
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 2: we eat, the gut kind of takes us their gens

157
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 2: out and make sure that it's delivered to other parts

158
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 2: for our body, and we have access that for energy

159
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 2: and fuel. The other thing about the gut is that

160
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,199
Speaker 2: it's sometimes called the primitive brain. It is comprised of

161
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 2: what we call the intert nervous system, and it's made

162
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 2: of the same part of the central nervous system actually,

163
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 2: and so it connects our entert nervous system, and the

164
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,199
Speaker 2: gut is connected to the central nervous system. So it's

165
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 2: constant communicating to our brain what's going on with our bodies.

166
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,360
Speaker 2: And it also is the first on a defense. The

167
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 2: majority of our immune system is actually in our gut.

168
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 2: So if you think about it, it makes sense, right,

169
00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 2: you know, you eat something that's unhealthy, our gut is

170
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,719
Speaker 2: telling that's like, no, we got kick this out. So

171
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 2: gut's responsible for doing that. The gut also keeps good

172
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,160
Speaker 2: things in right, and so the gut does more than

173
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 2: just absorb nutrients. It also is our helps moderate our

174
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 2: immune system, and it also helps manages our mood, and

175
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,480
Speaker 2: since neurological signals all throughout our body to help us

176
00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,360
Speaker 2: understand what's going on in our body.

177
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,120
Speaker 1: And you mentioned after any of that, in your early

178
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 1: days of practice, like you were learning more about like

179
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 1: the connection between the gun and mental health. And I

180
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,200
Speaker 1: also feel like I've only started to hear more about this,

181
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 1: Like I feel like maybe in the last five to

182
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,120
Speaker 1: seven years, can you talk about how this has developed

183
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,160
Speaker 1: in the field of mental health and maybe why it

184
00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 1: was so overlooked in previous years.

185
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think one of the reasons why I will

186
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 2: start first with why I think it might have been overlooked,

187
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 2: I think it's because it really is one of those

188
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,520
Speaker 2: things where it's individualized, meaning if you're looking at how

189
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,280
Speaker 2: you would develop a treatment plan in regards to gut health,

190
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 2: every person is different, and so the medical field is

191
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 2: really we're really reliant on treatment algorithms. Most of our

192
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 2: studies are based upon things that can be something works

193
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,200
Speaker 2: for one, it must work for all, right. We know

194
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,640
Speaker 2: that that's kind of the way that our scientific studies

195
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,920
Speaker 2: are created. We also know that there's gaps in that,

196
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 2: and so I think that probably has been a big

197
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,560
Speaker 2: barrier in the way that many medical professionals have not

198
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 2: taken on nutrition as a method for treatment in their

199
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 2: patient population. Also, I think just being able to get

200
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 2: enough data. A lot of the studies traditionally were done

201
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 2: outside of the United States, so European studies have the

202
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 2: most data in regard to looking at nutrition as a whole.

203
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,400
Speaker 2: Big pharma is big in the United States, and so

204
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 2: finding more natural ways of treating chronic conditions is taking

205
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 2: a while for us to get back to that. It's

206
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,440
Speaker 2: kind of kind of intuitive you think about it, right,

207
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,840
Speaker 2: because medication is actually newer food as medicine is nothing new.

208
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 2: So I think because people were so excited around being

209
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,400
Speaker 2: able to have a pill or being able to have

210
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 2: like something really specific for a diagnosis and to treat symptoms,

211
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 2: that has kind of in the cultural norm. So going

212
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,880
Speaker 2: backwards to say, actually we have access to things that

213
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 2: can help mitigate our health is kind of needing to

214
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,480
Speaker 2: be back reinstated into all culture.

215
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. So another term that you use

216
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,040
Speaker 1: was the gut brain axis. What does that mean?

217
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, the gut brain acxis is essentially what it so

218
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 2: means that the gut connects with the brain. There's also

219
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,480
Speaker 2: a third component to it which is becoming newer in

220
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,520
Speaker 2: the science, which is the gut microbiome axis. And when

221
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,520
Speaker 2: I talk about the microbiome, what I mean there is

222
00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,080
Speaker 2: these tiny bacteria that live in the gut. We know

223
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 2: that there's a nervous system that previously referenced with entire

224
00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 2: nervous system, which is where our veg is nervous, think

225
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 2: about it, but the sympathetic nervous system. When we get

226
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,200
Speaker 2: stressed or anxious, you know, your stomach might feel, you know,

227
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 2: a little bit bubbly or a little bit off right,

228
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 2: because our gut is the first line of defense against

229
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,319
Speaker 2: stressed so it talks to us and also will tell

230
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,520
Speaker 2: your brain, oh, I'm anxious, you know something's going on

231
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,200
Speaker 2: or I'm stressed. But also what we now know too

232
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,600
Speaker 2: is there are these tiny bacteria that are just as

233
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 2: important and commune ducating with our nervous system. So we

234
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 2: have these within our microbiome. We have a diverse group

235
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,960
Speaker 2: of bacteria that not only communicate but the nerve cells

236
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,800
Speaker 2: and are but also secrete Neuer transmitters. So these bacteria

237
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,360
Speaker 2: develop and modulate things such as gabba, ludamate, even serotonin. Right,

238
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,320
Speaker 2: So it's the gut, the microbiome that's proprised of the

239
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,360
Speaker 2: gut and also the brain. All these things are communicating

240
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,880
Speaker 2: constantly to help manage our overall health.

241
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:30,840
Speaker 1: And so I wonder is this why?

242
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:31,120
Speaker 2: You know?

243
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people will go to

244
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,280
Speaker 1: their primary care doctor when they have like upset stomach

245
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,240
Speaker 1: or maybe headaches, and then they're actually able to diagnose

246
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: maybe a mental health concern even though it presents us

247
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,080
Speaker 1: more of a physical concern.

248
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 2: That is absolutely right. There's a lot of overlap between

249
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,840
Speaker 2: mental health symptoms and GIS symptoms. And I think we

250
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 2: don't actually talk a lot as much as we should

251
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,560
Speaker 2: about the physical manifestations of psychiatric disorders. So it's common

252
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,920
Speaker 2: to see constipation and depression, It's common to see constant

253
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 2: or even diarrhea, and you know, vowels that are not

254
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 2: consistent in anxiety, and so that that's honestly a common symptom,

255
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,600
Speaker 2: and a lot of times people don't think about the

256
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,439
Speaker 2: cognitive manifestations as much. So maybe they don't think much

257
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,679
Speaker 2: about what their thoughts maybe, but they have more physical

258
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,680
Speaker 2: symptoms and when you do a deeper die what being

259
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,120
Speaker 2: is as an underlying psychiatric diagnosis. There also is a

260
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 2: significant overlay between other gut disorders and autoimmune disorders and

261
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 2: psychiatric disorders. So, for instance, autoimmune related gut disorders such

262
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 2: as chrone disease, oftentimes we see anxiety and nutritional changes,

263
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,839
Speaker 2: and gut restoration can have a positive influence on both,

264
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,560
Speaker 2: similar with autism. Right, we know that, you know, diet

265
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 2: and food sensitivities also overlay between psychiatric manifestations and some

266
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,000
Speaker 2: of these other autoimmune disorders. So really there's continued talk

267
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,360
Speaker 2: around the gut being, you know, the basis for a

268
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,599
Speaker 2: lot of different non communical diseases.

269
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 1: And I guess when I hear you talk about that,

270
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 1: it sounds very cyclical, right, Like, Okay, I have like

271
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 1: a disruption in my gut, then maybe I have symptoms

272
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,280
Speaker 1: of anxiety. Then that leads to something else, and so

273
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,720
Speaker 1: I think it feels hard to know, like where do

274
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 1: you start the intervention, like do you think you always

275
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,000
Speaker 1: start with the gut or can like my anxiety then

276
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 1: result in gut issues.

277
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. I think it's important to

278
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 2: break it down by symptom and root cause versus diagnosis.

279
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,160
Speaker 2: And my former thought the root cause is always the gut. Right,

280
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,400
Speaker 2: So when you engage in stressful activities or their environmental stressors,

281
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 2: that can cause people to have symptoms of anxiety, right,

282
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,720
Speaker 2: And so over time, stress can be so consistent that

283
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 2: it causes a breakdown and the integrity of your gut.

284
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,320
Speaker 2: That will cause long term sentence of anxiety. It will

285
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 2: be normal to have intermittent periods of anxiety, you know,

286
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 2: maybe you are up for it to do a large speech,

287
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 2: or maybe you feel like you're about to be attacked

288
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 2: by dogs. Normal, Right, those are normal stressors and a

289
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 2: healthy environment. And if your gut is healthy, then there

290
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 2: would be restoration of that and you would not help

291
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 2: ongoing symptoms. But when you have someone coming in with

292
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,120
Speaker 2: consistent symptoms of a mental health disorder such as anxiety

293
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,080
Speaker 2: and depression, that right now will tell you that there

294
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,480
Speaker 2: has been some impact on the gut. So what I

295
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 2: want to do is explore what's going on with this

296
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,440
Speaker 2: person's gut. I would want to get more specific around

297
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 2: what they're eating because it's essential in order to get

298
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,520
Speaker 2: restoration of the mental health symptoms, to restore the gut,

299
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,960
Speaker 2: and to get rid of any gut this biosis that

300
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 2: may be going on.

301
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break And how are

302
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 1: you assessing this doctor, Andy, is there like a labs

303
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 1: that you're asking the person to give? How do you

304
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 1: even assess some of this part of it.

305
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 2: Is do diagnostic evaluate right, so you know you can

306
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 2: ask them. Sometimes the story is and what people are eating, right,

307
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 2: tell me a little bit about your diet. Other parts

308
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 2: of the story are in what other chronic medical conditions

309
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,960
Speaker 2: that they may have in analogies, right, what food allergies are,

310
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 2: sensitivities you have, what family sensitivities. And then of course

311
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,320
Speaker 2: you know lab values, so you may ask someone to

312
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 2: do routine blood screening to look at if there's any

313
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 2: nutritional deficiencies. That right there will tell you perhaps there

314
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 2: are improper absulption of nutrients. It could be either due

315
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,280
Speaker 2: to what they're eating, or it could be maybe due

316
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 2: to genetic risk factors where they maybe cannot betabolize nutrients properly.

317
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,360
Speaker 2: You can do specific microbiome testing and so you can

318
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 2: do stool testing. But for some people that's necessary, right

319
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 2: perhaps even what changes in their diet, then you're not

320
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 2: seeing the overall results that you should be seeing, and

321
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 2: so that would make you think maybe there has been

322
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,240
Speaker 2: a really large insult on the integrity of the gut

323
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 2: and they maybe they would need more specific treatment. And

324
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 2: that really kind of works when someone needs maybe restoration

325
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 2: at the microbiome there, you would need specific probotics. You know,

326
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,719
Speaker 2: not every probodic is the same, and for some people

327
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,440
Speaker 2: they may have an imbalance and the types of bacteria

328
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 2: that are in their gut. So maybe there's an overgrowth

329
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 2: of one type of bacteria and an undergrowth of the other.

330
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,399
Speaker 2: And so microbiome testing will help us to understand what

331
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 2: bacteria are there, which ones are not, and which ones

332
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:25,200
Speaker 2: we need to restore.

333
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 1: And is microbiome testing? Is that a blood test? No?

334
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 2: It actually is a stool test.

335
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,399
Speaker 1: Oh yes, okay, got it? Got it? And so are

336
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 1: you doing that as a nutritional psychiatrist or would they

337
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,159
Speaker 1: go to their primary care physician to do that.

338
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 2: You can actually do those testing at home yourself, and

339
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,280
Speaker 2: you can send those laboratories in, but you also can

340
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 2: work with the functional medicine doctor to do that. Many

341
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,560
Speaker 2: functional medicine doctors do do microbiome stool testing as a

342
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 2: general part of the work up. So I either refer out,

343
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 2: I can order the test as well, but they are

344
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 2: done in an independent laboratory.

345
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 1: Got it. So earlier when you were talking, you were

346
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,719
Speaker 1: talking about like the vagus nerve as a part of

347
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,159
Speaker 1: like the central nervous system. And I'm not sure have

348
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,919
Speaker 1: you heard the term around like nervous system regulation and

349
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,160
Speaker 1: like people talking about your nervous system needing to be reset.

350
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,360
Speaker 1: Have you heard that terminology?

351
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 2: I have heard people talking about that.

352
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 1: Yes, And so I feel like, based on what you're

353
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 1: talking about, really we can't talk about like a nervous

354
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,679
Speaker 1: system reset unless we are actually talking about looking at

355
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 1: our nutrition.

356
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think you know, you can do many things

357
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,400
Speaker 2: to try to balance your nervous system. You can exercise,

358
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 2: you can do yoga, you can do meditation, but if

359
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 2: you're not eating healthy, it's going to be very hard

360
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 2: to do that nervous system reset. The idea of nutrition

361
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 2: and diet I think has been the culture around it,

362
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,919
Speaker 2: I think is a little bit offset because what what

363
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 2: we I think oftentimes don't understand is what you eat

364
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 2: actually drives the health of your nervous system. So you know,

365
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,919
Speaker 2: how you eat fuels these bacteria in your gut that

366
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 2: helps moderate these newer transmitters that keep your nervous system

367
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 2: healthy or unhealthy. And so that's an essential tool to

368
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: what we will call nervous system reset or I like

369
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,679
Speaker 2: to thinking more about it as nervous system homeostasis. We

370
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 2: shouldn't expect always to feel calm or always at peace.

371
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 2: I think sometimes that's in this number, but it's really

372
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 2: around the resiliency of our nervous system and being able

373
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 2: to be able to manage these signals and stay in balance.

374
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 1: So this may be a difficult question because it does

375
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: sound individual lives, but maybe you can help us think about,

376
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 1: like how would somebody get started? How should we be

377
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 1: thinking about food? Like are there certain groups of certain

378
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,199
Speaker 1: foods that we should be eating when we're thinking about

379
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 1: how to kind of maybe reset our good Absolutely.

380
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 2: I think it's actually not so difficult a question to

381
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 2: answer because I think you can think of it in

382
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,719
Speaker 2: two different ways. So there are some people that have

383
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: gout dysfunction that would require a more specific treatment plan.

384
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 2: But then there's also very general things that you can

385
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 2: do to take care of your overall wealth illness and

386
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 2: make sure that you are taking care of your gut

387
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 2: and taking care of your mental health. So I would

388
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 2: recommend you know, Mediterranean traditional diets we know are newer

389
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 2: protectif against depression and anxiety. Eating a diet that's what

390
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: we would call anti inflammatory. Anti inflammatory diets are things

391
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 2: that are low in processed foods and high omega three

392
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,439
Speaker 2: fatty acids and low end transvets. So we know that

393
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,199
Speaker 2: if you eat a diet comprised of omega three to

394
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,479
Speaker 2: a mega six ratio, meaning you don't have to, you know,

395
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 2: eliminate all of your omegasysets and omega sixes are examples

396
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: of canola oil or vegetables, but you do want to

397
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 2: have less of those and more of your more healthy

398
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 2: omega three fatty acids, and those things are found in

399
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 2: walnut seeds, olive oil, faty fishes. Eating diets fie that

400
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 2: are going to be newer protective. It's be healthy for

401
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: your gut and you're going to be less likely to

402
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,919
Speaker 2: experience you know, symptoms of depression anxiety based upon your respectors.

403
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 1: Right.

404
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 2: The other thing is making sure that you eat fermented foods.

405
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,400
Speaker 2: We know those are also very healthy because it keeps

406
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 2: a very healthy gut microbiome is essential for me. Make

407
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 2: sure that you have very diverse gut floor and eliminating

408
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: sugar as much as you can. Sugar in itself can

409
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 2: be very neurotoxic, and the more that you have sugar

410
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 2: can cost these end products that can across the gut

411
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 2: barrier and lead up to the developd brain barrier and

412
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 2: can cause all types of psychiatric symptoms. So I think

413
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: those are some really objective tools that people can take

414
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 2: away and that if they subscribe to that that can

415
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 2: at least be a good start to managing gut health.

416
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 1: And when you say fermative foods, what do you mean?

417
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 2: Souur, kraut, yogurt, pickle, vegetables, All those things are good

418
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: options for fermented foods.

419
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: Pickles, got it. And so in addition to talking a

420
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: lot about nutrition, you also talk a lot about like

421
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: yoga and movement as a part of a kind of

422
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: complete treatment plan. And can you say more about the

423
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: importance of.

424
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 2: Those Absolutely, So when we move it helps with gut motility, right,

425
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: and so when you have good gut motility, it helps

426
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: with the absorption of they trends. Also, it kind of

427
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 2: helps signal to your gut and send signals to your

428
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 2: brain that things are more balanced, and it helps secrete

429
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: things such as b D and F. It helps with

430
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 2: neural health and also neurogenesis. These are what we call

431
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 2: happy neurons. Right. The other thing about movement, every things

432
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 2: such as yoga helps restore overall vagal tone. And we

433
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: talked a little bit about restoring your nervous system balance.

434
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 2: If you're feeling like your age is all the time

435
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 2: or that it's hard to kind of calm down, bringing

436
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 2: your parents tofit nervous system is essential, and so practices

437
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: such as yoga, bringing in breath work and you'll be

438
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: surprised how just bringing in movement that brings in breathing

439
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: can calm the nervous system down and overall help with

440
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: your overall gut health.

441
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: And you've talked several times about like the component that

442
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: the impact that stress has on our gut and our

443
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: overall mental health. What kinds of things are you typically

444
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: talking with your patients about in terms of managing stress.

445
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's important first that having an awareness.

446
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: I think in society today, people are just always on

447
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: the go, So we may be encountering stressors throughout the

448
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: day and don't even know that we're stressed, and then

449
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 2: by the end of the day it's time to quote

450
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 2: unquote wind down, and it's hard to sleep, and it's

451
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: hard to even feel arrested even if you do go

452
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: to sleep. For the first thing I like to do

453
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: with my patients, it's just an assessment. You know, what

454
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 2: is your day to day, take an full evaluation of

455
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 2: how you feel throughout the day, and have an awareness

456
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: of what types of things are causing you to feel

457
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 2: stressed out. Oftentimes it may be interpersonal relationships, right they

458
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 2: call stress. It could be work. Other times it could

459
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: be family dynamics. So I just like for people to

460
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: understand what are the stressors and when you're trying to

461
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: manage that, what are some things that you can do

462
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 2: throughout today so that the stress doesn't continue to build up.

463
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: So oftentimes that may be looked like breaks throughout the day, stretching, journaling, meditating, walks,

464
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,479
Speaker 2: And it really is dependent on the person because not

465
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: everything works for everybody, and so just being open to

466
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: exploring a couple of different things and not overwhelming the

467
00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 2: person so that they feel like they have to do

468
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: a full overhaul of their day to day life, but

469
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 2: just finding some very small key techniques that really help.

470
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 2: I find and most people that movement helps. And when

471
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 2: I say movement, it doesn't have to be something prescriptive.

472
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: You don't have to say, oh, I'm going to start

473
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: going to the gym every day, or I'm going to

474
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: start doing this workout class. But what if you just

475
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: decide that you're going to take ten minutes to go

476
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: outside and take a walk, right, and I'm going to

477
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 2: do fifteen minutes in between meetings at work, or I'm

478
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: just going to take ten minutes to do some breath

479
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: work and I'm going to do it alongside a video.

480
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: I like to start small right that way, people are

481
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: not feeling more stressed about needing to have implement these

482
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: changes because if we don't want that, but also making

483
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: it something that can be easily implemented in their day

484
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: to day routine.

485
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 1: Doctoranny, you mentioned the term inflammation a couple of times.

486
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Because I think we do hear

487
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: that a lot like, oh, this can lead to inflammation,

488
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: But what exactly is inflamed?

489
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 2: Absolutely so. Inflamed means that cortisol and adrenaline have been

490
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: released in your body for or an extended period of time.

491
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 2: And what happens is it starts to wreak havoc over

492
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 2: your immune system and it can be triggered by a

493
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: variety of different things. For some people, that could be

494
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: a foreign pathogen, it could be bacteria, it could be

495
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: some type of toxic substance, or it could be ongoing stress.

496
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: Our body doesn't really differentiate between it, and depending on

497
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: your genetic makeup and your risk factors, some people are

498
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 2: more likely to have inflammatory response than others. Right, it

499
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: could be an allergy. Either way, your body is saying

500
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 2: that something is going on and we need to fight,

501
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: and that continued fight or fight response is what leads

502
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 2: to overall inflammation and it leads to several different I

503
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 2: don't want to get too scientific, but inter lincolns and

504
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: several different things that leak into your body that looks

505
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: like toxins, and over time, your body starts to attack

506
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: its body. It thinks that we're under attacked. We're going

507
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: to attack everything and they lose the specificity around what's

508
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: normal and what's not, and that's really the basis of inflammation.

509
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: Another term that I feel like we've heard before is

510
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: a leaky gut. What does that refer to and how

511
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: is it connected to the other things you've discussed.

512
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: Sure, So, a leaky gut is we have these tiny

513
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 2: things called tight junctions in our intestinal system, right, and

514
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: so they keep good things in and bad things out.

515
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: Over time, things such as stress, toxins or any type

516
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 2: of pathogen or bacteria can cause us to lose the

517
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 2: integrity of that gut lining. And so when that happens,

518
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: that means that bad things can get in and bad

519
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: things can get out. It may not necessarily be bad

520
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 2: inside the gut, but it's bad when it leaves the gut.

521
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: And so leaky gut means that we are no longer

522
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: absorbing nutrients are perfectly which means even if you are

523
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: eating healthy, your body is not absorbing yet because those

524
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: nutrients are crossing that gut intestinal lining. Also, bacteria that

525
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: are supposed to stay in the guts start to go

526
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 2: over the gut and enter into bloodstream and in some

527
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: ways have access to the blood brain barrier. And these

528
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: is where we start to see neurological manifestations that we

529
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: talk about in regards to depression, anxiety, dementia, Alzheimer's.

530
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: You know, as you've been talking un to Andy, I

531
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: can't help but think about like the last five years

532
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 1: in the world and thinking about like how much stress

533
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: everybody has been under, right, like the pandemic and just

534
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: all the chaos. Are you aware of any work that's

535
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: been done or any studies that you're aware of that

536
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: are talking about like what people's guts kind of look

537
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: like these days and how that's been impacted by the pandemic.

538
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: I think it would probably take time past the pandemic

539
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: to be able to do that work, if that makes sense, right.

540
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: I think right now we're doing a lot of catchups.

541
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 2: So even the current studies are looking at gut work,

542
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 2: are you know, currently not as up to date as

543
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: I think they should be, right, And so I think

544
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: it probably will take quite some time for the really true,

545
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: the full see the full manifestation of what some of

546
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: the stressors that COVID and a lot of things have

547
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: been going on in our environment today and how that

548
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 2: has impacted the gut. What I can say is they

549
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: are numerous studies that show the up ticket up rise

550
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: in the prevalence of mental health disorders. We know that

551
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 2: expands across not just adult population, but even children, and

552
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: we have seen an incredible increase in the amount of

553
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: depression and the amount of anxiety. I can't help but

554
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: assume that we also would see a similar impact. And

555
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 2: the gut reason being people were moving less, people were

556
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: eating it from the television, the rate of substitute disorders

557
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: rose significantly. That all works together. So I'll be interested

558
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: to see what specific gut cities that are related to that,

559
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: but I think it's easy to make the assumption that

560
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: it will very much parallel similar studies that we see

561
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: in regards to the prevalence of mental health disorders and

562
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: the increase of that related to COVID.

563
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, So, as a

564
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: nutritional psychiatrist, actor Andy, when you are doing your assessment,

565
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: are you starting with like nutrition in the diet and

566
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: then saying like, Okay, let's do this for three months

567
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: and then we can kind of reassess and then discuss

568
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: whether we're going to try antidepressants anti anxiety. Are you

569
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: doing those together, like how do you decide what the

570
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: like the steps are and how long can you expect

571
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: to maybe be trying a new diet before you see

572
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: some impact or results.

573
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: That's a great question. The answer is, for as far

574
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: as treatment approaches is all of the above, because it

575
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: really is. It depends on the person. So some people

576
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: may come to me and they've been on an antidepressant

577
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: for a long time, and with that awareness, my first

578
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: approach would not be to just stop the antidepressant and

579
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: go straight to changing their diet. We would do both

580
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: at the same time, right, and so the goal would

581
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: be to reduce the amount of medications that they take

582
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: and hopefully to be able to be medication free. Depending

583
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: on the diagnosis, some people may still need to be

584
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: on some form of a medication, but maybe the diet

585
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: is going to get them to the place where they

586
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: help full recovery your symptoms. So we do both, but

587
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: at the beginning of each session, the goal is always

588
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: to look at your diet, look at your nutrition, and

589
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: make recommendations in making doing that from a step wise approach.

590
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 2: So for some people it may look like, first to

591
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: start with, you're drinking a lot of sugar sodas, and

592
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: maybe just first stop stopping that, because that in itself

593
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: can be overwhelming and your body has to get used

594
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: to that. But I always also like to do it

595
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: from approach of not just reductionism, meaning we're not just

596
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: taking things away, but what can we implement or add,

597
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: And so it will look like, how do we add

598
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: some of these more science and evidence based forms of

599
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: nutrition that we know will help support your nervous system health,

600
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: and how do we do that on scale and scale

601
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: that to the point where we see symptom remission and

602
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: you feel better. The overall goal varies, and it also

603
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: depends on what people's comorb medical conditions might be. In

604
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: a perfect world, someone will be eating healthy and off

605
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: into their pressens and thriving and doing well.

606
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I appreciate you saying that because I think

607
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: for people who may be enjoying our conversation, the idea

608
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: of like, oh my gosh, I gotta like change all

609
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: this stuff can feel very overwhelming. You talked about like, okay,

610
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: like maybe let's look aod like how much soda you're drinking?

611
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: Can we like cut that back? Can you give other

612
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: maybe like manageable, actionable steps for maybe people who are

613
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: listening and they're thinking, like, I don't know how to

614
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: decrease all of this, Like where can people start?

615
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one really simple thing is drinking. Increasing your

616
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: water intake, making sure that you drink at least ten

617
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: cups of water a day, bring your water jump with you.

618
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: I think it's one very simple actionable thing that people

619
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: can do. The other thing is just increasing the diversity

620
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: of the ann or fruits and vegetables that you eat

621
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: throughout the day. I tell people you can choose from

622
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: a food map, try to choose five fruits and vegetables

623
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: that you eat every day. And if it's the same

624
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: things every day, that's fine. At least it's a step

625
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: towards the right direction. Maybe adding more spinach, more kale, asparagus, whatever,

626
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 2: the grain of your choice, adding some fruits and vegetables,

627
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: some additional vegetables and fruit mangoes, grip options. I always

628
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: love berries because they're full of antioxidants, they taste great

629
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: when they're in season, and those are things that you

630
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: can just throw on your salad and you don't feel

631
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: like you overwhelm, like you have to cook something right.

632
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: You can just add berries into your diet. And also

633
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 2: if you don't have ano allergy. I think that's an

634
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: easy step too. Of course that maybe choosing walnuts, almonds,

635
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: and seeds pumpkin seeds or something that I like is

636
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: a really easy addition to your day to day routine.

637
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: So just making small things. There are things people love. Chocolate,

638
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: I would just say go with dark chocolate, try a

639
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: small sample serving of that every day, and try to

640
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: choose an option that has a low sugar content. Try

641
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: cooking with olive oil instead of other traditional oils. It

642
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: can be very simple things, and over time I think

643
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: it becomes reinforcing and you can go to next step.

644
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: Now. Before we started recording after Andy, you were talking

645
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 1: about this smoothie that you had, and so is juicing

646
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: in smoothies a good option to get in some of

647
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: these fruits and vegetables or is it preferred to do

648
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: the you know, like whole vegetable or whole fruit.

649
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: I like the whole vegetable the whole fruit because of

650
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: the fiber. It doesn't mean that you can't have access

651
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: to some fiber if you juice it, but depending on

652
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: where you're juicing, you will have less fiber. And also

653
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 2: being aware that if you juice fruits, then there's more sugar.

654
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 2: So you know, fruits are meant to be combined with

655
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 2: the skin because it helps with absorption and it reduces

656
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: the sugar spikes because you are eating a whole fruit, right,

657
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: So if you just drink apple juice, really you're just

658
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: drinking the carbohydrate content first. If you're eating the whole apple,

659
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: then you're getting the pectin, you're getting the skin, You're

660
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: getting all those things in. Your digestion is being improved.

661
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: You're getting all of that fiber and your guts are

662
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: able to eat that. So it's a little bit different.

663
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: Now if you're juicing something that's vegetables, right, so maybe

664
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: your juice is celery, cucumber, then I feel like that's

665
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: a little bit better just because you are not getting

666
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: a lot of that sugar, and then you still get

667
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: a little bit of fiber content from that. But I

668
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: prefer to go the SMOOTHI route because you don't eliminate

669
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: the fiber, so you're just blending it together. It still

670
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 2: tastes great. I usually put some green in there, so

671
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: I'll do spinach or kale. I'll add in some type

672
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: of nut or seed option, and then I also will

673
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: do a couple of fruits in there for my antioxidants

674
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: in my berry. So I still getting their fruit. I'm

675
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: getting several different servings all at one time. It's digestible

676
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: and it tastes good and it's easy.

677
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: Right, right, So, like, do you feel like newer like

678
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: or psychiatrists now being trained to look more at like

679
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: the more holistic approach where they're looking at like the

680
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: good and thinking about movement, or do you feel like

681
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: the field still kind of has a way to go

682
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: in terms of training people to look at all of

683
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 1: these things.

684
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: The field has some way to go with the training,

685
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: but I think that we are committed. Interestingly enough, the

686
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: APAs theme is us lifestyle medicine this year, so this

687
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: is the time right for us to start really be

688
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 2: focusing out integrating movement and dieting nutrition in the treatment

689
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: plan for our patient. And actually a study and recommendation

690
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: came out in Psychiatic Time is about nutrition management as

691
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: a modality for treatment. So it's real. It's part of

692
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: the landscape now for psychiatrists. I do think it will

693
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: take time for it to evolve because people will have

694
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: to change their approach and they will also have to

695
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: change the way that they have to implement that time

696
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: with patients. It looks very different to meet with a

697
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: patient and talk about diet and lifestyle modification versus, you know,

698
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: some of the more shorter interventions where were you are

699
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 2: really just talking doing medication management, what are your side effects?

700
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: And then seeing you for fifteen minutes. So that's a

701
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: little bit different. So, you know, being able to incorporate

702
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: that is going to take some time, and I think

703
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: maybe some people will use that approach, maybe others will not,

704
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 2: but I definitely think it's something that we are committed to.

705
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: So much of this does feel like a public health effort, right,

706
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: like really focusing on prevention and like what kinds of

707
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: things can we be doing to have better health? What

708
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: kinds of conversations would you'd like to see more of,

709
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: especially as it relates to the Black community in terms

710
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: of gut health.

711
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: I would like to see multi disciplinary discussions. I was

712
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: recently at a talk where there is a nutritional oncologist, right,

713
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: So when I talk about gut health, I'm coming from

714
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: a psychiatric perspective, but it goes across all fields. And

715
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 2: I've even mentioned before in this talk around how autoimmune

716
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: disorders typically are related to can be related to gut

717
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 2: health as well. So what I like for our community

718
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: is just to really look at gut health as a

719
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 2: basis for looking at their root costs for a lot

720
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 2: of different medical conditions that ail our community. And I

721
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: want us to really start to talk more around preventative

722
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: measures and also looking at mental wellness. We want to

723
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: be protective around our bodies and be proactive instead of

724
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: being reactive. And so I would love for us to

725
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: have a multidisciplinary approach where you know, we have different teams,

726
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 2: all different types of clinicians talking around the importance of this,

727
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: and that's all kind of working together and using this

728
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 2: as a treatment modality as a way of education with

729
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: the community from all different aspects. I also would really

730
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: like for us to understand how access should be addressed.

731
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 2: So I think it can be served as a barrier

732
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: in regards to good health in our community. And so

733
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: how do grocery stores talk about making sure that we

734
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: have access to healthy fruits and vegetables regardless of where

735
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 2: you live in their community. How do we make sure

736
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: that community partnerships where they are working around feud and security,

737
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 2: make sure that when we are feeling those gaps that

738
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: we are soo making sure that in our community we're

739
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: offering foods and vegetables that are going to be nurishy

740
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: to the gut and protect up against the entire body, right,

741
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 2: And so those are the conversations I would love to have.

742
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: I think the conversations could. There's so many different areas

743
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: in pockets and niches where I feel like this can go.

744
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: But I think that will be a great start.

745
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: So, doctor Andy, I just want to do a little

746
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: bit of a roundup of all the foods I feel

747
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: like I've heard you talk about that we may need

748
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: to try to add into our nutrition into our plate.

749
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: So you talked about fermented foods, you talked about omega threes.

750
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:01,959
Speaker 1: Is that what you said?

751
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 2: Yes, three fatty.

752
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: Accents, okay, you talked about the green of our choice

753
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: that we talked about more fruits, especially berries. We talked

754
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: about dark chocolate. Is there anything I'm missing or anything

755
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: else that you want to add to our plate to

756
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: kind of have people pay attention to.

757
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 2: I will be remissed if I didn't bring up in

758
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 2: the importance of Kirkerman. So turmeric is a great anti

759
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: inflammatory option, and so whether or not. I like to

760
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: drink what we call golden milk. That's a combination of

761
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 2: turmeric powder with dates and also osha waganda, which is

762
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: a strong anti inflammatory nutrient. You could put something like

763
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: that in milk. I think that's a great option. What

764
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: else am I missing? I think those are the major things.

765
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: And also probotics. And when I say probotics, they're not

766
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: all made the same. So we want to find a

767
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: product with live probodics. We see a lot of providics

768
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: being sold where it's on the shelf. Essentially, you want

769
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: to get one that's refrigerated because we know these are

770
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: live bacteria, right. You want to look at the content

771
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: on the back of the label to look at the diversity.

772
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: The most common probiotics that you will see will have

773
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: lack to pascillas, But there are so many more bacteria

774
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: and you're good other than lack tovascillas. So you want

775
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 2: to make sure there's a diversity of strain. So you

776
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 2: want to look for something from bacterioids or bacterium, other

777
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: types of strains other than Lacti bacillus. So it's diverse,

778
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 2: so you make sure you're getting the full spectrum of

779
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: what your gut needs.

780
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: Is there any danger of going too far with too

781
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: many like probiotics, Like can you overdo it in terms

782
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: of like too much of something?

783
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: You know? I think it's really around diversity. I think

784
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 2: it'll be hard to go too forward probotics unless your

785
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 2: body already has an overgrowth of a certain bacterial strain

786
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 2: and you're getting it more of that, right, So it's

787
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: really around diversity. If you find a probotic product that

788
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: is diverse and most of them, if you find a

789
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: good one that's in it refrigerated, it should be I

790
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: think that's great. But I think the risk would be

791
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 2: not that you're going to fall that. The rest would

792
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 2: be that you're not going diverse enough. So for instance,

793
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: like I said, a lot of them just have light

794
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 2: to the cells. That's not enough, and that's just one strain.

795
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 2: So you just want to make sure that you're reading

796
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: the back of the label and that you're seeing there's

797
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: a diversity and the amount of in the microbiome the bacterior

798
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: that they're put in.

799
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: So got it? So, doctor Andy, you're the first nutritional

800
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: psychiatrist I have met, and I would imagine probably many

801
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: other people have not even met a nutritional psychiatrist or

802
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: even know that this field exists. So if somebody wants

803
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: to work with a nutritional psychiatrist, like, where do we

804
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: find you? Is there a directory? Is there? Like? Can

805
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: we use our insurance? Is this a specialty that people advertise? Like?

806
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: How many people find maybe somebody in their area?

807
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I would say that I'm kind of few and

808
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: for art in between, there are not many nutritional psychiatrists.

809
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 2: Me personally, I'm actually in the Black Girl Therapy the

810
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 2: directory director, yes, uh, so you can find me there.

811
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: But also I think you can probably look specifically for

812
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: a nitiational psychiatrists. You would just probably need to just

813
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: outreach in the community who uses this approach, even if

814
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: someone is not coined, and as your psychiatrists, they may

815
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: be able to use dietary approaches as a treatment option.

816
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: I think that's important. And then also what you can

817
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 2: do too is work with a functional medicine doctor who

818
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 2: also typically will use the health as a basis for treatment,

819
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 2: and then work with your psychiatrists to make sure they

820
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: pay or work together.

821
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: Got it. So you've already mentioned that we can find

822
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: you in the Therapy for Black Girls therapists director real.

823
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,280
Speaker 1: Where else can we stay in touch with you, doctor

824
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: Andy and see what work you're up to. What's your

825
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: website as well as any social media channels you'd like

826
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: to share? Yeah?

827
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely. You can find me on Facebook. You can reach

828
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: out to me on www dot freedommindweldcare dot org all

829
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 2: one word there, you can make an appointment with me.

830
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: You can see FAQs around the treatment options that I provide,

831
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: and it will find some detailed information about what it's

832
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: like to have your first initial visit with me. You

833
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 2: can also find you on LinkedIn. I'm also on Instagram

834
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: and TikTok so there. I like to send some education

835
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: to the general population, So if you can us a

836
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: lot more how they can start good health approach on.

837
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: Their own perfect We'll be sure to include all of

838
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: that in our show notes. Thank you for spending some

839
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: time with us, doctor Andy.

840
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 2: I appreciate it absolutely, thank you for the opportunity.

841
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: I'm so happy doctor Andy was able to join us

842
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: for today's conversation. To learn more about her and her work,

843
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for

844
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash Session four one three, and don't

845
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: forget to text this episode to two of your girls

846
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: right now and tell them to check it out. Did

847
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: you know that you could leave us a voicemail with

848
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: your questions or suggestions for the podcast. Do you have

849
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: movies or books you like us to review, or have

850
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 1: thoughts about people you'd like to hear us in conversation with.

851
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: Drop us a voice message at Memo dot fm, slash

852
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on

853
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast.

854
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit

855
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.

856
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: This episode was pu use by Elise Ellis, Indechubu and

857
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennis and Bradford. Thank

858
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I'll

859
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

860
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: Take good care.

861
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 2: What's