1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: guest today is Gabriella Hoffman. Gabriella is Center for Energy 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: and Conservation director at the Independent Women's Forum and a 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: freelance journalist. 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 2: So nice to have you on, Gabriella. 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 3: Carol, It's so wonderful to connect. I'm really thrilled to 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 3: be on. 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 2: You know, we were. 9 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: Talking about this right before we started recording, that you 10 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: and I have a lot of background similarities and yet 11 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: we've never met in real life, which is really funny 12 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: because we're in a kind of small conservative world together. 13 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: What is your background and how did you get to 14 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: this conservative world place? 15 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 3: I think very similar to you, although there's a slight difference. 16 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 3: When you were immigrating to this country a little before 17 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 3: my parents did, you took a similar path. You went 18 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 3: to Vienna, then Ledispoli. 19 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: And we went straight to Ladispoli. 20 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, we went I thought you went to Ostria too, well, 21 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 3: similar but Ledispoli and then the United States. My parents 22 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: went to Austria, Ldispoli slash Rome. Then they had a 23 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 3: layover in New York and then California. So slightly different 24 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: from you, but my parents are from Lithuania, which was 25 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 3: also behind the Iron Curtain, and I have a very 26 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 3: interesting background. My mother is Lithuanian Catholic, my dad is 27 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: Lithuanian Jewish, and so I guess the best way to 28 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 3: describe me as a cashew. But their experiences behind the 29 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 3: Iron current, I would say cemented my conservative beliefs. And 30 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 3: I think as I got older, learned about politics, really 31 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 3: got interested in writing and telling stories because, as you know, Carol, 32 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: and you're a fellow writer journalist too, so many things 33 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 3: were concealed and hidden and suppressed in both of our 34 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: ancestral homelands. And I think for me to honor my 35 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: grandparents who had gone through so much in gulags and 36 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 3: other prison camps, and my parents not having as many 37 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 3: opportunities as I have had since I was born in 38 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: the United States, I think the best way to honor 39 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: my family is to do this writing stuff and now 40 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 3: policy analysis that I do for my day job, but 41 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 3: still also supplement with writing. And I think being kind 42 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 3: of a teller of lost stories or underreported stories is 43 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 3: what really drew me to conservatism. I've always been a 44 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: lifelong conservative, but I think I even got more conservative 45 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 3: when I went to college and I hosted David Horowitz, 46 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 3: who just passed away unfortunately recently fifteen years ago and 47 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: was a pro ISRA advocate and seeing things just balloon 48 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 3: into craziness now relating to Jews on American campuses, growing 49 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: anti Semitism, it's so alarming to me, Like I saw this, 50 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 3: Yeah that was a U see San Diego student, and 51 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 3: so much of what I think a lot of us 52 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: have observed can be addressed and fixed, but it's just 53 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 3: really scary to see a lot of things that like 54 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 3: our parents went through and maybe people individually went through. 55 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 3: And you know, that's why I've largely been inclined to, 56 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: you know, the center right way of life. That doesn't 57 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 3: mean I'm not open to different perspectives. I have friends 58 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 3: across the different political spectrum, but I just think conservatism is. 59 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 4: Naturally, you know, a good fit for me. 60 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 3: But I think also conservatism is is interpreted differently now 61 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 3: these days. So I still kind of view myself as 62 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: a traditional conservative. You know, you have to adjust same, Yeah, yeah, 63 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 3: you can't you know, necessarily be resistant to change. But 64 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: I think there's certain things we ought to maintain. So 65 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: that's kind of where I fall in my things. But 66 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: we have a very similar family history. I heard Russian 67 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 3: growing up my life. I have some Russian relatives, very skeptical, 68 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 3: you know, of Russia today, and it's very concerning, you know, 69 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 3: what's happening there. But yeah, I think very similar to you. 70 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: Although I was born in America. 71 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 4: Lucky, very lucky. 72 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: It's a badge that I were very proudly and I 73 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: don't take it for granted. 74 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 4: I think a lot of people do, which is a shame. 75 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's funny because when I was little, my 76 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: brother was born in America. 77 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: His name is Ronald, you know, born in nineteen eighty two. 78 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: Wasn't a coincidence, and I desperately wanted to be natural 79 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: born American. I didn't want to be an immigrant. I 80 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: didn't want to be born somewhere else. I made up 81 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,559 Speaker 1: a whole story about, you know where, I was born 82 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. And then as I got older, it became 83 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: like cool to like not be American, and that was 84 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: crazy to me. Even in my teen years, even at 85 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: my height of like trying to be edgy and different, 86 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: I still saw America as this just amazing, incredible place. 87 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: And I know that, like you probably had the same 88 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: message growing up that we could have our lives could 89 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: have been so different. We could have grown up in 90 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union and so on. But so it's funny 91 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: because I'm from Brooklyn. I grew up in Brooklyn, and 92 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: there's a giant, you know, ex Soviet community. There was 93 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: there that community for you in California as well. 94 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: There was actually and my grandparents settled in Santa Monica, 95 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: which probably was very similar to Brooklyn, where there were 96 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: people from Ukraine, Lithuania, Russia, and the former Soviet Republic. 97 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: So I was exposed to a lot of this you know, 98 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 3: Russian Lithuanian language, but also the food and being very American, 99 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: you know, I didn't pick up the language. Unfortunately, I 100 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: heard it most of my life, both Russian and Lithuanian, 101 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: and I kind of wish I did because. 102 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 4: I could like talk behind people's backs. I'm just kidding. 103 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: If you can see, it's best for like when they're 104 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: talking behind your back, it's great. I've had, like, you know, 105 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: manicurists like say stuff about me and not know at 106 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: all that I understand them. 107 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 4: Yeah. 108 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I feel like, you know, being the struggle 109 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 3: for my parents was they were adjusting to a new country, 110 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: and they wanted me to be American, so it was 111 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: very challenging with my mom working in different corporations as 112 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: a technological consult my dad being a general contractor. They 113 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: were working, working, working, of course, very attentive to me 114 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: and my younger sister, So I didn't really pick up 115 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: the tongue, but I heard it my whole life. I 116 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: feel like if I dedicated enough time, I could speak 117 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 3: both Lithuanian Russian. 118 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 4: Because I've just been so exposed to it. 119 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 3: But there was a lot of community, maybe not as 120 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: I would say fully integrated like Brooklyn was, because California 121 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 3: is so spread out, but you couldn't escape Lithuanian or 122 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 3: Russian or Ukrainian. 123 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 4: It was there. 124 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 3: And actually we did have a lot of friends in 125 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 3: the diaspora, whether their parents were from the former Eastern 126 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 3: Bloc or their first generation and their kids or second generation. 127 00:05:58,520 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: So we did have a little bit of it, but 128 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 3: I largely had like a very American centered experience, still 129 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: tied to, you know, the cultural roots, appreciating the food, 130 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 3: the different customs, going to different festivals. So it was 131 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 3: a lot of fun, like the blending of both worlds 132 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: is really unique, and I think it makes me appreciate 133 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 3: being American more because if my parents had stayed there, 134 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 3: I wouldn't be here. 135 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 4: That's for sure, I know that, but I. 136 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: Think it also adds to the perspective of being an American. 137 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 3: And I think you feel the same way too. Where 138 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: you know, suppressive societies like the former Soviet Union really 139 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 3: hamper your ability to speak freely, to owne private property, 140 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: to pursue your dreams. My dad experienced a lot of 141 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: anti Semitism institutionally there, and he wanted to be a 142 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 3: lawyer and a doctor, couldn't do it. He came here, 143 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 3: he was able to fulfill his dream of his own 144 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: general contractor business. Hasn't been perfect, no thing is perfect, 145 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 3: but if he would have stayed there, I felt like 146 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: he would have, you know, suffered a lot keeping with that, 147 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 3: and my mother and her fam my mother's family, oddly enough, 148 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 3: had even more horrible things happened then. 149 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: That feel like it's not easy to be I'm a 150 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: former Soviet Union either. 151 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 4: No. 152 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 3: My grandpa was eighteen months in one of the gulags 153 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: at the Russian Finnish border the Bella mar Canal, which 154 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 3: isn't really talked about it. There's not much known about 155 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: the Gulag system either because the Russians have suppressed it 156 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: so much. The Kremlin doesn't want people to know about 157 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: it. It was one of the most horrific places. I don't 158 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 3: know how he survived. He just miraculously did. He had 159 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 3: a very tough life. And so like seeing both my 160 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 3: Jewish and Catholic relatives go through so much, you know, 161 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: again going to our earlier point, like it makes you 162 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: appreciate being American. And the fact that sometimes you even 163 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: meet like kids of fellow diaspora and they're very liberal 164 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 3: or they're very much. 165 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 2: Like me, absolutely kills me. 166 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very hard for me to see because so 167 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: my community in Brooklyn, and it's funny because we used 168 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: to refer to it as just we're Russian, Like it 169 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: didn't matter if you were Russian or not, even you know, 170 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: full on like friends who were from the Ukraine, you know, Ukraine, 171 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 1: orre from Lithuania or from anywhere Bella was. You still 172 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: referred to our community as the Russian community. 173 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: And then ever since the war began. 174 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: With Russian and Ukraine the most recent one, it really 175 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: has changed the way people refer to themselves. And this 176 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: almost the entire community is Jewish, so we were never 177 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: Russian or Ukrainian or Lithuanian or whatever anyway. So but 178 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: it's interesting because the community is very conservative. So I 179 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: always felt very comfortable being conservative in that world. Even 180 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: in very liberal Brooklyn. I didn't care because my community 181 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: was conservative and. 182 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: I didn't care what other people believed. And now seeing some. 183 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: Members of the next generation move leftward, it's like, what 184 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: are you thinking? Like do you know where we came from? 185 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: Do you know what the end result of leftism is? 186 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: But what I wanted to ask you that. So, my 187 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: community in New York is very it's it has this 188 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: reputation for being quite name brands and fancy stuff and whatever, 189 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: and not shooting guns and not being outdoorsy and not 190 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: being hikers, and you sort of are all those things. 191 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: And I'm curious how it is for you. Do you 192 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: feel like you fit in in your world? 193 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 4: What is it like? 194 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: I've never had people question my Lithuanian ancestry or jewishness 195 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 3: because I like guns and fishing and hunting. 196 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 4: It's not usual. 197 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 2: It's usual. 198 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because I think for more, let's say, like 199 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 3: observant Jewice because I'm more culturally Jewish than i am 200 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 3: religiously Jewish. I think there is a discrepancy about, you know, 201 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 3: for Kosher laws like can you go fishing, can you 202 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: go hunting? And I've had my friends who are more 203 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 3: so in the Orthodox community explain to me that they 204 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: can't do it because of just how the cuts of 205 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: meat are prepared any hooved animals, And so for me, 206 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 3: I take a little different approach there. 207 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: But I never even realized that. 208 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that there's an issue with that. 209 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, not so much in my immediate family. But 210 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: my father was the instigator behind all of this. He 211 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 3: taught me how to fish. He helped me develop a 212 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: love of the grade outdoors, and early on I remember 213 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 3: in California being this beautiful backdrop of the grade outdoors. 214 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 3: You have all four seasons national parks. Fishing was right 215 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 3: in my at the Pacific Ocean or inland at the 216 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 3: different rivers. My dad got to do some fishing in Lithuania. 217 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 3: I forget if it was a relative or family friend. 218 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 3: So you would go to Belarus when he was a 219 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 3: child during the summers, living behind the Iron Curtain, and 220 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 3: that's where he learned how to do fishing, and there 221 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 3: were no suns, so he deputized me as his fishing 222 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 3: power right, And I first picked up a fishing rod 223 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 3: or started to go fishing with him when I was eight, 224 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: and I got seriously hooked. By the time I was twelve, 225 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 3: I caught this really consequential catfish, and I remember the 226 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 3: measurements and the increments behind it. It was Memorial Day 227 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: twenty and three, gosh, twenty two years ago, and that 228 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 3: fish just really solidified it for me. And ever since, 229 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 3: I've caught like salmon, I've caught these like big fish 230 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 3: that look half my size, and it's a lot of. 231 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 4: Fun to do that. 232 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 3: And then I naturally moved towards shooting sports and then 233 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: hunting when I moved to the East Coast, just to 234 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: as way to socialize, and also I just felt like 235 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 3: very empowered. 236 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 4: In doing these activities. 237 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 3: I didn't even think, you know, as a thing like 238 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: I have experienced some anti Semitism as a kid, because 239 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 3: it ignorant kids who always just stop, you know, they 240 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 3: push stupid stuff. They claim they have Nazi relatives, and 241 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: that's very uncomfortable. But for me, it wasn't really because 242 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 3: of anti Semitism or a threat to me personally. But 243 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 3: I just felt like at the time, you live in 244 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: a state where they're friendly laws for gun ownership, you 245 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: might as well date you take the training, get your 246 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 3: concealed carry. And for me that's now almost ten years ago, 247 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 3: but I picked up a gun actually first time in California, 248 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: went to these public lands in San Bernardino County. Was 249 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 3: a little skeptical at first, and then you know, spent 250 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 3: some time away from it, moved to the East Coast, 251 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 3: Finish College, et cetera, and then I picked it up again. 252 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: Befriending people and when you work in politics, shooting sports 253 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 3: is a great way to break the ice. 254 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 4: Into make the shows and sales community. 255 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 3: And so I was able to even through those early experiences, 256 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 3: I would say, get interested in the journalism side of 257 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: things on firearms. So I would go to and I 258 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 3: haven't gone in a few years, but I've gone to 259 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 3: my fair share of shot shows, which is like the SAPAD. 260 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: That's the one right I've hearn about it. 261 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a show, but you get to see celebrities, 262 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: You get to see like the who's who of the 263 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: outdoor industry, and it's a lot of fun. Vegas is 264 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 3: not really my scene, but I'll only go to Vegas 265 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 3: for that show show, Yeah, for shot show, and I've 266 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: got to I've gone to a lot of like hunting 267 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 3: and fishing trade shows as well. 268 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 4: And it's such a unique community. 269 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: And as you were saying, you know, finding kinship with 270 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 3: people like minded is like I've found some people who 271 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 3: are Slavic or from Baltics or you know, have some 272 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: sort of ties to that through fishing and hunting. There's 273 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 3: actually a lot of people who like those activities. Mushroom 274 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 3: hunting is also another big thing I learned, Yeah, yeah, 275 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 3: in that corner. 276 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 2: Of the world. 277 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 3: And I've even been able to best my father when 278 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 3: we went to Lithuania last year for our first time 279 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: in like twenty five years, he and I. My mother 280 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 3: has gone like every ten years or so. But I 281 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 3: was able to best my father fund bigger mushrooms than him. 282 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 3: So that was cute, right, And it's a lot of 283 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 3: fun to do that. And yeah, it's just, you know, 284 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: super unique and you can find community doing that, people 285 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 3: who share similar political persuasions like you, people who don't 286 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 3: like I feel like it's the one industry whether it's hunting, fishing, 287 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 3: shooting sports that can't be riddled with wokeness because there's 288 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 3: so much individualism. You have to defend yourself, you have 289 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 3: to potentially, you know, anticipate going into the wilderness fending 290 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 3: for yourself. A political disposition or a fear of something, 291 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: or this inclination to this very kind of isolated extreme view. 292 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 3: It's not going to help you survive a baar encounter 293 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 3: in the wilderness or having to you know, find fresh 294 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: water or navigate your way back to camp or something 295 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 3: of that nature. So this industry has been so immune 296 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 3: to That doesn't mean it's not a welcoming community. 297 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 4: It absolutely is. 298 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 3: We have more women, more minorities, more people coming into 299 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 3: hunting and fishing because they want to shooting sports because 300 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: they want to defend themselves. But it's very individualistic. So 301 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 3: that's why I like it. And also it's a great escapism. 302 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: It's not like this escapism to rebel. It's an escapism 303 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: to become stronger in your skill set and really fend 304 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: for yourself and you know, appreciate the natural world. And 305 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 3: I would say, like a true conservationist format, and we 306 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 3: can talk more about what conservation is if you're interested. 307 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 3: But that's kind of my thinking into it. And I 308 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 3: love these activities and I wouldn't be who I am 309 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 3: without them. 310 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 4: They really have cemented my thinking. 311 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: It's so cool, Like I really I feel like it 312 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: is a world that I want to know more about. 313 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: What do you worry about? 314 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 3: There's a lot of things to worry about. Gosh, where 315 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: could I start? I would say probably two things. Of course, 316 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 3: increasing loneliness. In this very technical age, I'm in my 317 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 3: mid thirties. I talk to a lot of people, and 318 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: even though we're really hyper connected these days, there's a 319 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 3: lot of isolation. People are less inclined to socialize, even 320 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: talk or connect or people just fully retreat, whether it's dating, friendships, 321 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 3: et cetera. And that worries me a little bit because 322 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: I love solitude. I think solitude is great. But to 323 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 3: see more and more people and especially young men, kind 324 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 3: of retreat from socializing and interactions, that makes me increasingly nervous. 325 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 3: And another thing that makes me, I would say, increasingly alarmed. 326 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 3: And this is more kind of relating to, you know, 327 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 3: relationships between men and women and something we've seen like 328 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 3: Megan Kelly and others discuss and as a professional woman 329 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 3: who hopes to one day get married and have kids. 330 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 4: I see this insistence. 331 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: That for a woman to achieve that, whether she has 332 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 3: a career stuff, she has to like tone down herself 333 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 3: or like forego her accomplishments. And for any woman watching 334 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 3: or listening, I hope you don't feel that way, because 335 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 3: you should be very proud of your accomplishments if you're 336 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 3: a published writer, a commentator, a banker, something of that nature. 337 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 3: So I know that like feminism has really skewed and 338 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: distorted things. 339 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, and worried also the other extreme in. 340 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: Addition to this loneliness epidemic and kind of fueling this 341 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 3: lonely epidemic. You know, everyone you know complaining about the other, men, 342 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: complaining about women, women complaining about men. It's not healthy 343 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 3: for our discourse and to you know, help, let's say, 344 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 3: fix this population crisis. We're seeing this lack of marriage. Well, 345 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 3: although marriage is starting to kind of make a turn around, 346 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: I would say in terms of trends, I hope. So 347 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: I'm encouraged by the younger people, maybe not so much 348 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 3: more millennials, but I think things can be course corrected 349 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 3: on their own if people have the aptitude to do it. 350 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 4: But if we see these. 351 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 3: Continual wars about like women have brought about problems on 352 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 3: theirselves or men have brought about problems on themselves, it's 353 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: not healthy and it's going to feel this loneliness epidemic too. 354 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I see that absolutely. I think that those things 355 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: go hand in hand. And the loneliness like retreating into ourselves, 356 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: it's so easy to do right now. It's the main 357 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: topic that people write to me on the show, saying, 358 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: my kids don't have friends, my teen doesn't have friends, 359 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: my twenty somethings don't have friends. 360 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 2: It's a really. 361 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: Big problem and I think people the more people treat 362 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: online as real life, the less likely they'll be able 363 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: to have relationships in person. 364 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: And absolutely one of my top concerns. 365 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 366 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. 367 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 2: What would you. 368 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: Advise yourself at sixteen? 369 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 2: What is a sixteen old Gabrielle need. 370 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 3: To know that life is not going to be on 371 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 3: someone else's timeline, or that you don't have to worry 372 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 3: about meeting something exactly at a particular date. You don't 373 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 3: have to say, like I have to be married by 374 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 3: twenty five or I have to achieve this goal by thirty. 375 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 3: And I think I used to fall into that trap. 376 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 3: And I've met a lot of my goals well before 377 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: thirty and all that, some other goals I have not fulfilled. 378 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 3: And I think being jealous or nervous that you haven't 379 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: reached a certain milestone in your life can create a 380 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 3: lot of stress, can make lead you to make horrible choices. 381 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 3: For settling lead you to settling in life. And you 382 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 3: shouldn't have to settle in life for or less. I 383 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 3: think you should settle for more and get what you deserve. 384 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: But of course you have to keep in mind if 385 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 3: you're of a certain age, you know you can't delay 386 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 3: certain things. But it's hard sometimes to meet people. But 387 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: I think I would tell my sixteen year old self 388 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 3: that you don't have to necessarily be worried about timelines. 389 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 4: You have to go at your own pace. 390 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 3: Laid gratification is great and it makes you more humble 391 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 3: and more prepared for challenges ahead, but don't be so 392 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: nerve apect like when you hit something. 393 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 4: Some people are at different timelines. 394 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: What kind of stuff do you. 395 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: Work on as Energy and Conservation director at IWF. 396 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 3: Trying to break down complex topics relating to different energy 397 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 3: sources energy policy into redibly understandable, digestible materials, whether it's 398 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 3: blog posts, op eds, videos, policy focuses. Because energy can 399 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 3: be complex, and it shouldn't have to be. We immerse 400 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 3: ourselves in energy all day. 401 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 4: We thrive off of energy. 402 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 3: As we're recording, Carol, you and I are using light sources. 403 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: We have electricity that powers our house, we have makeup, 404 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: we have different derivatives of oil and gas and different. 405 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 4: Things like that. 406 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people bite the hand 407 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 3: that feeds them. They don't understand the energy is so 408 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 3: integral to everyday life, even beyond the production and consumption 409 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 3: side of things. And it goes back to I think, 410 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 3: like I said to our upbringing, I remember hearing about 411 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 3: centrally planned policies where the government's too heavily involved, and 412 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 3: you see blackouts and brownouts, you see worsened environmental quality. 413 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 3: In Lithuania. My parents always remember water quality was terrible, 414 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 3: air quality was bad. I bet the same ones in 415 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: Russia too, And since Lithuania has broken away and become independent, 416 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 3: you've seen, you know, salmon come back to full recovery. 417 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 3: You've seen pristine rivers, you see in anywhere else in 418 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 3: the former Soviet block that is independent, very prosperous like that. 419 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: And I think we're seeing this conversation, maybe not so 420 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 3: much under the Trump administration because they have really good 421 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 3: posturing and I really like what they're doing. We still 422 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 3: see some on the left say, well, we have to 423 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 3: trade economic prosperity environmental conservation. I'm like, you don't have 424 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 3: to trade one versus the other. 425 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 4: You can have both, yeah. 426 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: And they never say what leads to the other. 427 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: I don't see how countries that are not economically prosperous 428 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: tend not to have the better energy systems, tend not 429 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: to have the cleaner energy, tend not to have any 430 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: of that stuff. So I don't see how it's a 431 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: trade off at all. In fact, I think you can't 432 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: have one without the other exactly. 433 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 4: And when people are settled in their. 434 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: Ways, they have a job, they can care about their 435 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: environmental surroundings. Hey, when you don't have disposable income, you 436 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: don't have a roof over your head, why should you 437 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: care about it? Like it's not to be dismissive of 438 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 3: true environmental concerns. But polling has suggested and shown that 439 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 3: as you know, let's say, the cost of trying to 440 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: be climate friendly goes up, people don't want to pay 441 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 3: to fight the so called climate crisis, to fight climate change, 442 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 3: like nobody wants to spend more than a dollar to 443 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 3: reduce their environmental footprint. And that that is consistently shown 444 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 3: all across the board. And then when you make these 445 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 3: doom and gloom predictions that the world is ending and 446 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 3: those predictions never pan out, those people are not to 447 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: be trusted. That's why I think conservatives have an opportunity 448 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 3: and I hope, I hope that my center is offering 449 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 3: a solution there. But we are starting to see conservatives 450 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: steer the conversation on this about balanced use, not having 451 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 3: too much overdevelopment, but to have conservation which means the 452 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 3: natural resources, you know, usage and development that is measured, practical, 453 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 3: and still allows you to enjoy green spaces and waterways. 454 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 3: And I think conservatives are starting to be much better 455 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: at that. They still have some ways to go, and 456 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 3: they could talk to me if they need some help there. 457 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 3: But true conservation stewardship is a conservative value. 458 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 4: I mean, you talk about. 459 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 3: Theodore Roosevelt and a lot of Republicans, a lot of Republicans, 460 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: even those who were even more progressive than I'd. 461 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 4: Like them to have been. 462 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, they were pioneering a lot of the environmental reforms 463 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 3: that we see today. Things that can be improved upon, 464 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 3: of course, but a lot of Republican policies and administrations 465 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 3: did actually start a lot of these measures. They implemented 466 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 3: a lot of laws to ensure we had clean air, 467 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 3: clean water, and hunting and fishing as a means of conservation, right, And. 468 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 2: Those two things also go hand in hand. 469 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: For me, I think republicanism and conservation, I mean I 470 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: see it in Florida is they're not opposed to each 471 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: other at all. I think Republican policies can and do 472 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: lead to better conservation policies in. 473 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 2: A lot of places. Well, I've love this conversation. 474 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: I think you're super interesting and the work that you 475 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: do is so fascinating to me and us here with 476 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: your best tip for my listeners on how they can 477 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: improve their lives. 478 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 3: I'm not a guru, and I don't profess to be one, 479 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 3: but I really think time in the graade outdoors to 480 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 3: wrap this conversation full circle is a way to be 481 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 3: really healthy, whether it's doing a ten thousand step k 482 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 3: walk or ten thousand step walk. Excuse me, just to 483 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 3: like be outside in green spaces or to go hunting 484 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 3: and fishing or hiking. Just something to see greenery, to 485 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 3: be in the blue mind, which means to be at 486 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 3: peace when you're surround by a body of water. Whether 487 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: it's green spaces or being surrounded by a body of water, 488 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: take your pick and do a ten thousand step walk. 489 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 3: I think those are simple ways to really improve your life. 490 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 3: And if you want to learn how to fish or hunt, 491 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 3: I'm more than happy to give you tips and resources 492 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 3: that but time outdoors is great keep you healthy. 493 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: I totally agree. She is Gabriella Hoffman. Check her out 494 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: at IWF and everywhere that she writes. Thank you so 495 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: much for coming on, Gabriella. 496 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 4: Thank you, Carol an Honor