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Speaker 1: Folks, As we are traveling through the holidays, taking a

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Speaker 1: little time off for our own completely non sketching a

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Speaker 1: mysterious adventures, we are presenting to you some of our

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Speaker 1: favorite classic episodes. Do you guys remember doing this one? No?

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Speaker 1: Because I was men in black mind erased about it?

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Speaker 2: M wait, what are we talking about? You know?

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Speaker 1: Luckily we wrote this down. The past us is helping

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Speaker 1: the present us now. Back in twenty nineteen, it was

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Speaker 1: us we apparently asked ourselves, can memories be erased? What

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Speaker 1: would you do? You know, if you had a very

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Speaker 1: troubling traumatic memory of an experience that was so invasive

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Speaker 1: it messed with your present day life? You know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? This happens since memories a big deal, you know.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to every college kid who partied too hard

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Speaker 1: one time and now can't see a specific like brand

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Speaker 1: of alcohol or drug without five getting nauseated? Is this

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Speaker 1: like Sailor Jerry's shout out gold Schlagger? Just okay, not

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Speaker 1: as classy as it sounds, so jeger for me.

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Speaker 2: Wooo give me all of those guys. I just want

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Speaker 2: to drink up that syrupy Southern comfort, just that straight

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Speaker 2: triple sec Oh yeah, guys, is this kind of like

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Speaker 2: the Blind Eye Society's Memory gun. You know that gravity

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Speaker 2: falls thing. I hope everybody's seen gravity falls. I know

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Speaker 2: I'm way late to that already, but I finally, like,

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Speaker 2: I am obsessed with it and I just can't get enough.

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Speaker 1: And you know, maybe I have seen it, but we

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Speaker 1: just don't be right. We know that the realm of

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Speaker 1: science fiction and science fact is increasingly getting fuzzy. So

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Speaker 1: check out this episode. Hope this message finds well. Folks.

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Speaker 1: Tell us the weirdest thing that you've seen with memories.

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Speaker 1: Oh shout out, uh Mendela effect or Mandala effect or

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Speaker 1: barn Steve Potato Potato zane. Here we go.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 3: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt noel

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Speaker 2: Is on an audio adventure.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. Quick before you forget your comments, your feedback,

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Speaker 1: your concerns, or your suggestions. Go ahead, at any point

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Speaker 1: while this episode is playing, pause it and give us

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Speaker 1: a call. Speak your conscience, speak your truth, let us

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Speaker 1: know if you do not want your words to go

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Speaker 1: on the air.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Also speak your untruth whatever you wish, give

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Speaker 2: us a call. One eight three three std WYTK. Now

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Speaker 2: speaking of truth is an untruth. Then we've spoken many

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Speaker 2: times on this show about the the memory that you

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Speaker 2: have or an image in your mind is just the

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Speaker 2: last time you thought about something, Right.

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Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. Longtime listeners will will remember this

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Speaker 1: because it's a very handy thing to point out whenever

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Speaker 1: we dive into any number of topics. And that is

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Speaker 1: a take for instance, well, we'll talk about memories a

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Speaker 1: lot today. Take for instance, the memory of the first

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Speaker 1: time you ate spaghetti.

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Speaker 2: Right, Okay, got it.

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Speaker 1: That's it. That's a good that's a good example because

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Speaker 1: it ties into taste, smell, texture, all these other sensory

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Speaker 1: things that play a huge role in encoding memory.

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Speaker 2: But and it's also probably not the first time you

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Speaker 2: ate spaghetti.

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Speaker 1: It is almost definitely not. It may not even be

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Speaker 1: a real time that you ate spaghetti, you are just

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Speaker 1: remembering the sensations that you associate with spaghetti. So we

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Speaker 1: just may have helped you make up a memory that

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Speaker 1: never happened. And today's show is about memories. Think about it, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Memories are humanity's earliest version of time travel. You can

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Speaker 1: hear a snatch of song, a vivid image pops up

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Speaker 1: in your mind, or something as small as a taste

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Speaker 1: can send you rocketing out of the present into the past.

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Speaker 1: In some cases, this is amazing and beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Think about smelling a cookie, a specific kind of cookie,

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Speaker 2: sure right, I mean it really is time traveling.

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Speaker 1: A fresh baked cinnamon cookie or a Christmas cookie. Yea,

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Speaker 1: I see on it. This has been the launching ground

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Speaker 1: for so many crucial parts of human existence, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of literature and art as well remembrance of things

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Speaker 1: passed by proost. Essentially, it all starts because this guy

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Speaker 1: dips a Madeline into I think tea or some sort

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Speaker 1: of beverage and he tastes it and he goes wow.

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Speaker 1: I should write hundreds of pages about us.

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Speaker 2: Madeline is a cookie, correct, yes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or a biscuit?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, biscuit? Oh my gosh, you excuse us, right, But

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Speaker 1: then also think about the way people who are suffering

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Speaker 1: from Alzheimer's are able to retain memories through music, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: they may have difficulty recalling certain people, places or events

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Speaker 1: in their lives, but they can sing and hit every

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Speaker 1: note of a song from the sixties that they really loved.

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Speaker 2: Right. And then in the hope of current research and

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Speaker 2: future research is that you can you can use that

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Speaker 2: connection in some way to make even further connections.

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Speaker 1: Right, exactly, spot on. And here's the thing. This is

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Speaker 1: the reason why I really appreciate you using the word

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Speaker 1: hope there matts because as amazing as memories are, we

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Speaker 1: still do not understand everything about them. We know, for example,

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Speaker 1: that memories can be as as you said earlier, surprisingly treacherous,

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Speaker 1: and memories of the same event can change drastically over time.

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Speaker 1: That's why, especially in the days before widespread video and

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Speaker 1: audio capturing ability existed, that's why so many people would

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Speaker 1: swear they were at these big historical events after the fact,

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Speaker 1: they didn't think they were lying, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: the hundreds of thousands of people people who claimed they

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Speaker 1: were watching you know, like the Hindenburg disaster. Well, that

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Speaker 1: would probably be more in the millions or people who

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Speaker 1: claimed that they were in or around Tombstone at the

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Speaker 1: time of the so called wild West, right and during

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Speaker 1: the titular shootouts and stuff. Those people don't feel like

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Speaker 1: they're lying. They genuinely think they remember it. And now

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Speaker 1: we find ourselves inexorably drawn into the world of philosophy.

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Speaker 1: If a person's thoughts, their experiences, and their beliefs are

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Speaker 1: indeed the basis for the reality in which they exist,

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Speaker 1: then were they there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a tough one. And we're also going to

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Speaker 2: get into realms here with memories of something like trauma.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we're talking everything we've been talking about

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Speaker 2: right now, or memories that we would probably want to

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Speaker 2: retain or at least a hone or to have the

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Speaker 2: best version of, or we think we have the best

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Speaker 2: version of.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But when you're speaking with memories of trauma or something

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Speaker 2: like that is there, you know, perhaps there is reason,

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Speaker 2: and rightly so, for us to want to alter those

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Speaker 2: memories or maybe even change them. Sure, and some people

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Speaker 2: have attempted in the past to do this.

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Speaker 1: Right, we know that people can, through accident or intention,

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Speaker 1: alter memories in various ways. One of the big debates

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Speaker 1: regarding this would be the technique known as hypnotic regression.

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Speaker 1: There are people who will swear up and down that

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Speaker 1: hypnotic regression has been used as a psychotherapeutic tool to

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Speaker 1: help people remember things that they had suppressed due to trauma. However,

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Speaker 1: and this is not to say that doesn't occur. However,

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Speaker 1: the evidence also shows us that people can be guided, steered,

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Speaker 1: pushed toward remembering things that did not happen, or remembering

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Speaker 1: things that happened in a different way in the objective reality.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are techniques in psychological ways to try

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Speaker 2: and alter your own memories, either for good or for bad,

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Speaker 2: or those of other people. But some of the kind

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Speaker 2: of self changed things, or like memory palaces, constructing it

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Speaker 2: within your mind and then altering the way you view

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Speaker 2: this certain time or event. There's a lot of fascinating

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Speaker 2: stuff there.

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Speaker 1: It's true, and we will inevitably hit different aspects of

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Speaker 1: this and along the way today we will show you

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Speaker 1: a little bit about how to hack your own memory.

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Speaker 1: But this is again for information purposes only. Yes, Paul

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Speaker 1: Matt and myself are not doctors. And even if we

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Speaker 1: were taking medical vice from a podcast is a terrible idea, uniport,

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Speaker 1: no caveat, terrible idea.

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Speaker 2: Even basic psychological advice. We don't take it from me

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Speaker 2: at least.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't even follow any of our film recommendations of

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Speaker 1: being honest, at least none of mine. So I'll also

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Speaker 1: share in the course of this episode a very odd

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Speaker 1: personal memory. And I would love some help or answers

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Speaker 1: about this because I still have questions. But okay, we

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Speaker 1: know that we can alter our own memories and other

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Speaker 1: people can alter our memories. We know that we don't

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Speaker 1: understand everything about memories. But what if we could take

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Speaker 1: it a step further? What if we could actually erase

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Speaker 1: a person's memory, a specific memory. In other words, what

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Speaker 1: if we can take the plot of Eternal Sunshine of

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Speaker 1: the Spotless Mind from the big screen to reality. That

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Speaker 1: is what we were exploring today, and to do so,

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Speaker 1: we need to first understand what exactly human memory is.

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Speaker 1: So here are the facts.

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Speaker 2: Let's begin with a summation of this idea of what

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Speaker 2: is a memory by a gentleman named Richard C. Moe's Mohs.

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Speaker 2: He wrote how human memory works for our friends over

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Speaker 2: at HowStuffWorks dot com. I was gonna say something that is,

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Speaker 2: like we remember thee or something like that, like we're

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Speaker 2: no longer officially with them, but they will always be

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Speaker 2: with us. Memory itself just describes the process by which

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Speaker 2: our minds store and then recall information. And again, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of connections, both literally and physically and metaphorically.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm exactly. So for most of us Moe's writes,

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Speaker 1: we talk about memory as though it is another part

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Speaker 1: of our body, a thing we possess, like our organs

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Speaker 1: or our fingers. But the tricky part here is that

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Speaker 1: memory does not exist in quite the same way. We

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Speaker 1: can't touch it. It's more of a concept for most people,

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Speaker 1: or at least this was the case for the majority

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Speaker 1: of human history, and it may be tempting for us

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Speaker 1: to think of every single memory that we've ever had

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Speaker 1: as a single, discrete, specific thing. Imagine your first day

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Speaker 1: at school, right, or one of your first days That

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Speaker 1: memory probably exists distinct for a lot of people. Or

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Speaker 1: remember the first time you told a romantic partner you

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Speaker 1: love them and so on. You can put yourself back

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Speaker 1: in that moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just your meet cute, even the first time you

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Speaker 2: saw your current partner.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly. When we think of these things on the offset,

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Speaker 1: we think of them as a single point, a snap

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Speaker 1: in this huge tapestry of experience that never ends until

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Speaker 1: we die and maybe continues a little bit after that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is that all things are interconnected here,

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Speaker 1: and memories no different. Your first day of school also

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Speaker 1: conjures up the idea of like your trapper keeper, your backpack,

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Speaker 1: what you have for lunch. That's sleepless night before the

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Speaker 1: first day of school.

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Speaker 2: It's also being colored by your subsequent experiences with school

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Speaker 2: and how you feel about, you know, high school. Let's

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Speaker 2: say you're let's say you're in college. Right now, when

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Speaker 2: you're thinking about your first day of school, those memories

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Speaker 2: are hitting because of the way memory functions. As we're

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Speaker 2: going to get into here, it's hitting all of these

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Speaker 2: different parts of your your memories.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, because each of these things is really the

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Speaker 1: product of some incredibly, incredibly complex Rube Goldberg esque cognitive processing.

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Speaker 1: Every time you or my or anyone recalls a memory,

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Speaker 1: our brain is reassembling these very different impressions from a picture.

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Speaker 1: A spider web of cells scattered all throughout your brain

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Speaker 1: in different areas each memory that you have, and the

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Speaker 1: larger concept of what we call memory is a group

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Speaker 1: of different systems or webs interacting and playing a role

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Speaker 1: in creating, storing, and recalling experiences. Mose has a great

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Speaker 1: example of this. He talks about a pen. He says,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you think of an object like a pen,

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Speaker 1: your brain achieves the object's name, okay, pen, It's shape, cylindrical,

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Speaker 1: often right, overwhelmingly, its function okay.

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Speaker 2: Rites stuff, disperses in.

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Speaker 1: The sound it makes when it scratches across a page.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of us, we would probably be more

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Speaker 1: familiar with a click sounds. So each part of the

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Speaker 1: memory of what a pen is exists in a different

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Speaker 1: part of your brain, and then all you need is

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Speaker 1: to think or hear the word pen, and boom, it

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Speaker 1: all comes together so fast, so quickly. You're not buffering.

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Speaker 1: There's no speed, there's no moment where you're totally lost,

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Speaker 1: and you're thinking, well, that sounds a sounds familiar.

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Speaker 2: Well for some of us, myself included, recalling specifics of

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Speaker 2: things is becoming more and more difficult again as myself,

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Speaker 2: as I get older. It's odd, it's like the connections

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Speaker 2: there aren't quite as steadfast as they once were.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So neurologists are still only at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of understanding how all these different little mental processes

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Speaker 1: come together to form what we call memory and to

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Speaker 1: create what we call remembering. We do know a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how memories form. When everything goes right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. So the first thing that happens is your

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Speaker 2: senses are interacting with something in the world generally, and

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Speaker 2: these things, these sensations that your senses are picking up,

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Speaker 2: travel to this place in your brain called your hippocampus,

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Speaker 2: which then integrates various separate sensations into a single cohesive experience.

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Speaker 2: So again, kind of what we were talking about earlier, Ben,

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Speaker 2: let's go back to that love of your life, and

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Speaker 2: in this way, let's say it's your meat cutes. The

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Speaker 2: first time you turn a corner, there's the person you

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Speaker 2: end up being with for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 2: You think about the way they looked, perhaps what they're wearing,

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Speaker 2: the way their hair was. You heard their voice for

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Speaker 2: the first time, or at least what you're imagining now,

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Speaker 2: remembering the way their voice sounded. The first time you

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Speaker 2: smelled whatever cologne or whatever you smell they had going

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Speaker 2: on the deodorant, maybe it was just their natural smell.

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Speaker 2: This all gets rolled up into this single experience that

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Speaker 2: we consider to be the memory. Right, And according to

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Speaker 2: Moe's he actually goes into this into the actual occurrence

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Speaker 2: in your brain.

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Speaker 1: Right. He walks through how the hippocampus along with the

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Speaker 1: frontal cortex analyzes these sensory inputs. This, this is the

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Speaker 1: process of encoding. So if essentially think of your hippocampus

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Speaker 1: and the frontal cortex as the bouncers at the bar

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Speaker 1: of your recollection. Oh right, they're at the door. And

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Speaker 1: what they will do is they and we're totally anthropomorphizing

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Speaker 1: them here, but they will say, let's say you're walking

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Speaker 1: by and you smell an amazing eero stand right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and walking by a whole all guys or whatever, and

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Speaker 1: you smell this and it's a great it's a great smell.

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Speaker 1: Or you see something distinct there, someone's making shwarma or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and this goes to your brain. These sensory inputs, the

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Speaker 1: visual input of watching that scene, the olfactory input of

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Speaker 1: smelling that food, and then your hippocampus your frontal cortex

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Speaker 1: are the they're the entities that say this is or

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Speaker 1: is not important, This does or does not make the pass.

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Speaker 1: As we indicated earlier, if they make it through, if

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Speaker 1: your long term memory, even your short term really, if

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Speaker 1: they make it through and become a short term memory.

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Speaker 1: They exist in a small chunk for no more than

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Speaker 1: twenty to thirty seconds for most people, and then someone

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Speaker 1: can ask you like, hey, what was happening there, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty five seconds ago, and you'll be like, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: this guy's making sharma. It was great, you know, not

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Speaker 1: life changing, but yeah, you want some shwarma. That's how

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Speaker 1: that will work. But let's step back for a second.

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Speaker 1: So as these bits of infration get collected in short

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Speaker 1: term memory, they're stored in different parts of the brain.

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Speaker 1: We still don't know how our brains identify all these

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Speaker 1: things and know what to match to which events. Right,

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Speaker 1: so we know that we do know the physiological or

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Speaker 1: i should say the neurochemical process. Here. We all have

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Speaker 1: nerve cells in our brains. They connected things called synapsis, right.

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Speaker 1: A sygn apse is a connection there, and these cells

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Speaker 1: fire electrical pulses across the space between your nerves. And

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Speaker 1: when they fire, these electrical pulses. It triggers the release

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Speaker 1: of these neurotransmitters. Think of them like chemical corriers. The

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Speaker 1: neurotransmitters spread the information they carry across the spaces between

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Speaker 1: the cells. Each single brain cell can form thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of these links, creating all these the connections, these

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Speaker 1: webs that we mentioned earlier. The typical brain has about

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Speaker 1: typical human brain I should say, has about one hundred

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Speaker 1: trillion synapses. But these connections are not set in stone.

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Speaker 1: They constantly change as your brain cells organize themselves into

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Speaker 1: different groups to process information in different ways. And here's

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Speaker 1: where long term comes in. Every time that your brain

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Speaker 1: cells send these messages to one another, the synaptic connection

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Speaker 1: between them grows stronger. We can't emphasize this enough. This

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Speaker 1: is real mind over matter. Your thought processes, the things

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Speaker 1: that you choose to think about with no ostensible physical

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Speaker 1: action of your own, these things will change the physical

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Speaker 1: composition of your brain. I believe we may have mentioned

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Speaker 1: it on previous episodes, but we can see this effect

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Speaker 1: over time and it becomes quite profound. London taxi drivers right,

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Speaker 1: the area of the brain associated with spatial reasoning in

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Speaker 1: taxi drivers who have been driving for decades is physically

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Speaker 1: noticeably significantly larger than that of the ordinary driver. Same

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Speaker 1: thing with the parts of the brain responsible for empathy

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Speaker 1: in Buddhist monks who have meditated for quite.

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Speaker 2: A while, as well as professional magic the gathering players

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Speaker 2: who've been playing for long enough time like, it's crazy

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Speaker 2: how many cards they have to remember and all the

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Speaker 2: different actions.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've done some real Twilight Zone stuff. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you. We also know that filtering

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Speaker 1: occurs during this encoding process. Most people don't remember most things, right,

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Speaker 1: But we still don't know exactly how this works. We're

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Speaker 1: going to pause just for a second. Let's all try

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Speaker 1: to remember what we examined here, and then we'll be

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Speaker 1: back to explore short and long term memory after a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 2: And we're back now. As we were discussing before, not

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Speaker 2: all memories are created equally, and not all of our

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Speaker 2: senses are stored in the same way. Because really, if

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Speaker 2: you think about how much stuff we interact with every day,

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Speaker 2: how many things we see and smell and touch, if

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Speaker 2: we kept all of that, it would be it would

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Speaker 2: be nearly impossible to sort through, even with the processing

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Speaker 2: power of our brains. So a lot of experts actually

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Speaker 2: believe that memory exists in three stages. A lot of

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Speaker 2: times you'll hear short term versus long term memory, So

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Speaker 2: let's jump in here. The first type is the immediate

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Speaker 2: sensory memory. That's just what is occurring right now, the

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Speaker 2: way this table feels when I touch it. Then there's

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Speaker 2: short term memory, which is again about that twenty seconds

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Speaker 2: or a little bit, you know, give or take a

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Speaker 2: certain period of time. I remember how that table felt

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Speaker 2: when I touched it. And then finally long term men

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Speaker 2: and then that is just me when I'm walking around

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Speaker 2: at the house thinking about what that table felt like

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Speaker 2: when I touched it, right or I'm remembering it for

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Speaker 2: the next time. So each memory has to successfully pass

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Speaker 2: the filtration to get to the next tier to go

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Speaker 2: from sensory to short term to long.

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Speaker 1: Term and long term memory can store as far as

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Speaker 1: we can tell, an unlimited amount of data for an

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Speaker 1: infinite amount of time. But yes or sorry, an indefinite

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Speaker 1: amount of time. There's not a hard limit on it

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Speaker 1: the way short term memory is. We should also make

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Speaker 1: a slight detour here to say yes. So called total

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Speaker 1: recall memory edetic memory does exist, but it is very

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Speaker 1: very rare. That's the ability to recall something in near

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Speaker 1: totality after having only seen it once briefly. And there

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Speaker 1: are people who really can do this. There are people

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Speaker 1: who have the ability to look at a photograph and

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Speaker 1: then draw it really accurately from memory. There are people

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Speaker 1: who can tell you what they had for breakfast on

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Speaker 1: you know, June fifteenth, nineteen ninety eight, and they can

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Speaker 1: tell you what time it was when they had breakfast.

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Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, but like you said, extremely rare, extremely

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Speaker 2: extremely rare. For me, I couldn't tell you what I

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Speaker 2: ate for breakfast yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Right, And true photographic memory, as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: like the actual facts, true photographic memory has not been

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Speaker 1: universally proven. There are compelling things, right. But then this

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Speaker 1: ties into the idea of the so called savant syndrome. Right,

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Speaker 1: So that's a story for another day. But the rules

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Speaker 1: we are describing for memory applied to easily ninety eight percent,

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Speaker 1: if not more, of the human population. Matt, You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: Long term memory is something that you have to earn.

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Speaker 1: If you're a little lingering scent of jasmine or lavender,

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Speaker 1: you start off in sensory memory, and you have to

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Speaker 1: crew up with other sensory with other sensations right to

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Speaker 1: progress through that hierarchy and hit the you know, hit

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Speaker 1: the big win, the immortality of a long term memory.

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Speaker 1: Most people have a pretty good memory. So the brutal

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Speaker 1: truth of this is any of your friends, any of

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Speaker 1: our friends who say, ah, I'm terrible with names, or

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Speaker 1: I just say a goat such a terrible memory. The

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Speaker 1: fact of the matter is, I'm not gonna say they're

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Speaker 1: lying to you, but they're not really trying to encode memories.

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Speaker 1: Most people are pretty good at this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Various factors affect our memory at different junctures, and like

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Speaker 1: a lot of other physical faculties, memory does seem to

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Speaker 1: degrade with age, but we all typically start out with

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Speaker 1: a pretty sharp ability to recall things. One thing that's

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Speaker 1: interesting about how memory can be affected. Every time this

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Speaker 1: great computer cult your brain retrieves, it goes into I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about the best way to put this. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we have all probably heard the idea of set and setting,

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Speaker 1: or seen in setting for people who do hallucinogens. Right,

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Speaker 1: if you are already feeling anxious and you ingest a

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Speaker 1: hallucinogenic substance in a place that is a very stressful environment,

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Speaker 1: you know, or like sirens randomly go off, and there

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Speaker 1: are four hundred strangers you don't know, right, and they

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Speaker 1: all want to get in line for the bathroom. Essentially

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Speaker 1: every outdoor concert ever, whatever. Yeah, then you're going to

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Speaker 1: have a weird time. Memory is also vulnerable to the

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Speaker 1: present physical surroundings that you are in when you generate

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Speaker 1: a memory. So if you are having if you are

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Speaker 1: having a great time, you're super relaxed. Let's picture it.

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Speaker 1: You're on a hot tub on the shore of a

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Speaker 1: beautiful island. It's a nice, cool ocean breeze, the sun's setting,

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Speaker 1: You're hanging with people you like or whatever. You're at peace,

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Speaker 1: get a cold, frosty beverage, sitting on the rim of

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Speaker 1: the hot tub, whatever, and you remember something that was

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Speaker 1: sad or painful or hurtful. The fact that you are

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Speaker 1: in a nice, relaxed, secure, comfortable setting when you recall

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Speaker 1: this is going to study show, or studies seem to

427
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Speaker 1: indicate strongly, it's going to help mitigate the psychic trauma

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Speaker 1: of that earlier thing. The stuff that surrounds us in

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Speaker 1: the present affects the way we see our past.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that I can totally see that. I mean

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Speaker 2: that's why if you're going to see a therapist or something,

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Speaker 2: it is in that type of set and setting that

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Speaker 2: is meant to be serene right as you're working through

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Speaker 2: some memories that are perhaps painful. It makes a lot

435
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 2: of sense. Now I'm now thinking all therapists should just

436
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: have hot tubs. Yeah, frosty beverages.

437
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been saying that for years.

438
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: Sunset and it good to go.

439
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: Only at sunset night therapy. That sounds like a strange show,

440
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: maybe on cinematic.

441
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, late night HBO something

442
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: like that.

443
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: So, so these long term memories differ from our short

444
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: term memories. Our short term memories are actually going to

445
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: be They're going to have a higher chance of being accurate,

446
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: just because our long term memories are based on the

447
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: repetitive intrusion of our present scene while we're remembering something, right,

448
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: So they get a little diluted. We play that game

449
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: of telephone. But there we have it as a very

450
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: very brief look at what human memory is and how

451
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: it works so far as we know. Now, why are

452
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: we talking about this because for hundreds of years, people

453
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: have been trying to alter memory in one way or another,

454
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: whether through the propagation of differing historical narratives aka burn

455
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: all the books, h censorship, let's get rid of anything

456
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: in that picture at Tianneman Square, right, hypnosis, hypnotic regression,

457
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: brainwashing like that old scene in Star Trek The Next

458
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: Generation where someone is torturing Picard and telling them to

459
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: see a different number of lights.

460
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, or a pledge of allegiance that you have to

461
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: say every day when you're at school.

462
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: Right, which I bet is encoded in your memory too,

463
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: and also with a little bit of cadence, right, Like

464
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: you can probably recite the entire alphabet in your native language,

465
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: but if you have a native language that teaches children

466
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: the alphabet in the form of a song, it's kind

467
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: of it's really difficult to do it backwards, right.

468
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: I still can't because.

469
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: We don't know all you know, we don't know all

470
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: the letters independently we know the song. Yeah, it's like, oh,

471
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: which number is H. I'll get to it, just give

472
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: me a second. But yeah, So we've we've had this

473
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: history of people attempting to tweak modify revised memory, and

474
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: we've had mixed results. In fact, for most of human history,

475
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: the idea of purposely, surgically and precisely deleting a memory

476
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: seemed relegated to the world of science fiction. But what

477
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: if we could turn it into science fact. Here's where

478
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: it gets crazy.

479
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 2: Man. We're already deleting memories, and at least we figured

480
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: out how to do it right. That doesn't mean we're

481
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: doing it effectively necessarily, but some people have been figuring

482
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: out the means, and there are multiple studies, current and

483
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: very recent studies that confirm that it is indeed possible

484
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: to remove a specific memory or memories from an individual's brain.

485
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: That sounds crazy. That sounds like eternal sunshine.

486
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: But it's real, and it is crazy. Be real? Does

487
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: it make it not crazy?

488
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I agree.

489
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: With you there, like okay, So there's a twenty seventeen

490
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: study from the Columbia University Medical Center on snails.

491
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: Oh okay, all.

492
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: Right, And so they found that different types of memories

493
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: stored in the same neuron of marine snails can be

494
00:31:54,840 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: selectively erased here's the important part, without removing the other memory.

495
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: So they can just snip the one out. Here's how

496
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: they did it and those as reported by Science Daily.

497
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: They stimulated two sensory neurons connected to a single motor

498
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: neuron of the marine snail. One neuron, one sensory neuron

499
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: was stimulated to induce an associative memory, something that brings

500
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: up other experiences. Another was stimulated to induce a non

501
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: associative memory. And they found that they could measure the

502
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: strength of each connection. And by measuring the strength of

503
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: each of these snaptic connections, they could find the increase

504
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: in the strength of each connection produced by a different

505
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: stimuli was maintained by a different form of a protein

506
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: called protein kinase m PKM. And they have a couple.

507
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: There are two versions of this right side and a

508
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: b side associative memory, non associative. And they found that

509
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: if they blocked the specific type of PKM molecule involved,

510
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: they could block and erase the memory that needed that

511
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: that needed that enzyme in order to hit the conscious mind.

512
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: So it's all just chemistry.

513
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: See this to me, just the fact that it's being

514
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: that snails are our subjects to try and figure out

515
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: if a memory can be you know, changed or deleted.

516
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: It definitely brings up questions for me, more philosophical questions

517
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 2: about the snail. But we do know neurologically those neurons,

518
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: those the way they're at least if you think about

519
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: it mechanically, how it's functioning is very similar to human neurons.

520
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: There's a you know, there's a thing that that remembers

521
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: a connection that then goes to a motor neuron which

522
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: will cause you to actually do something to physically make

523
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: a physical change in your body. And then these two

524
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 2: other pieces that they're messing with are just the thing

525
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: that actually holds the connection to the memory.

526
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, so they found that not only could you

527
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: block that recollection, but you could erase it by blocking

528
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: not PKM itself, but you could erase the memory by

529
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: blocking other molecules that help produce PKM the enzyme or

530
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: protect it from breaking down. So you can they not

531
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: only found the switch, they found the stuff that removes

532
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: or installs the switch. Whoa again, justin snails, because you

533
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: have to start small so you don't freak people out.

534
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I guess so, I mean I get it. Well,

535
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: the good thing here is that this isn't some kind

536
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: of diabolical there's no diabolical behind wanting to figure out

537
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 2: what this is, or at least that's not stated. According

538
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: to our understanding is that these researchers are doing this

539
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: study to try and find some way to remove non

540
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 2: associative memories that end up triggering PTSD in people. Also

541
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: any kind of anxiety like either in general or otherwise

542
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,439
Speaker 2: within humans. I very much like this. I think many

543
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: of us listening would would could do with this. We

544
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: would appreciate this. But again, the researchers also are very

545
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: very careful, at least according to the sources that we're using.

546
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: They're very careful to say that this is kind of

547
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: a proof of concept, right, a proof of principle, if

548
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: you will, And it's not absolute proof that we can

549
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: do this within humans, right.

550
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: We're more showing the relationship the cause and effect between

551
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: these molecules. But there are other studies in body by

552
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: researchers at the University of California from back in twenty fourteen.

553
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: They found that light can be used to erase specific

554
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: memories from mice using a technique called optogenetics.

555
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is where it's feeling closer and closer

556
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: to the eternal sunshine. Stuff actually using a physical medium

557
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: to change memories.

558
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: Right, and it's not as cool as the memory erasing

559
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: flashlight and men in black. Not yet, not yet, not yet.

560
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 1: So the scientists in this study used genetically modified mice

561
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: as their experiment and their control groups. The genetically modified

562
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: mice had nerve cells that would literally glow green and

563
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: express a protein allowing the cells to be switched off

564
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: by light. Light being the mechanism, and so this allowed

565
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: the scientists to trace the path of more or less

566
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: a memory from nerve cell in the cortex and hippocampus,

567
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: and they could see which cells were activated in learning

568
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: something new. They could also see which cells turned on

569
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 1: when the mouse was remembering something, and then they could

570
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: use a fiber optic cable to switch those cells off

571
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: using light.

572
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, whoa, it sounds so sci fi, but this is

573
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: how they summarize it.

574
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: Quote.

575
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 2: They train the mice by placing them in a cage

576
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 2: where they got a mild electrical shock. Now, normally mice

577
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: placed in a new environment will nose around and explore,

578
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: but when placed in a cage where they have previously

579
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 2: received a shock, they freeze in place because it's a

580
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: fear response.

581
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you could see. You can see why it

582
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: would be illegal to do this with human subjects because

583
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: they first showed that they could label the cells involved

584
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: in learning and later in recollection. Then they were able

585
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: to switch those cells off, so that and then put

586
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: the mice back in the place where they got shocked,

587
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: and the mice had no idea because they they their

588
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: memory had been erased.

589
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 2: So they just nose around like they would if it

590
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: was just another cage.

591
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: And then they did their homework, you know, Methodologically speaking,

592
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: they kept it hygienic because they were able to show

593
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: that turning off different cells didn't mess with the memory

594
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: at all.

595
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

596
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: Right, So so they did find they were able to

597
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: hunt down the physical manifestation of a memory, which is

598
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: mind blowing. But this is just the beginning. We've talked

599
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: about erasing memories in animals, but what about creating memories?

600
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: What about the memories of human beings like you listening

601
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: along or Matt or Paul or so on. We'll explore

602
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: that after a word from our sponsors.

603
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: And we're back. Now this is where we get into

604
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: the real, possibly creepy territory, because we're talking about making

605
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: memories that aren't real, or at least aren't exactly the

606
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: same as they could be altered too because science, as

607
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: it turns out, they're learning that some of the same

608
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: processes that we used or that we can manipulate to

609
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: erase memories can also be used to insert new recollections

610
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: that we haven't actually ever collected. It won't be a recollection,

611
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 2: it will be a new collection.

612
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's just be a collection. Yeah, this is interesting.

613
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: This came out just a few days ago, I think

614
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: August twenty seventh, twenty nineteen, in the magazine Nature, scientists

615
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: published a report proving that they've been able to create

616
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: new memories by reverse engineering natural existing memories. And this

617
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: is even weirder than it sounds. Okay, so what they

618
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: did is they took they took one brain, one animal brain,

619
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 1: and they got a natural memory from it, right, something

620
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 1: that it would want to avoid because as you can see,

621
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: they're teaching on very primal levels pain response usually. And

622
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: then after they had mapped out the brain circuits involved

623
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: the switches, the patterns they had traced the web essentially

624
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: for this specific memory, they quote unquote trained another animal

625
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: by stimulating the brain cells of that animal in the

626
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: pattern of that first memory. This created an artificial memory

627
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: that behaved in the exact same way as the naturally

628
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: occurring one, the same a recollection pattern, the same retention everything.

629
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: So the quote from Nature reads this way. And these

630
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: were mice, I should say. In the recent study, the

631
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: natural memory was formed by training mice to associate a

632
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: specific odor, in this case cherry blossoms with a foot shock,

633
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: which they learned to avoid by passing down a rectangular

634
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: test chamber to another end that was infused with a

635
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: different odor, Carraway. The Careway scent came from a chemical

636
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: called carbone, while the cherry blossom scent came from another

637
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: chemical acedophenoe. The researchers found that this cherry blossom scented

638
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: chemical activated a specific type of receptor on a discrete

639
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: type of olfactory sensory nerve cell. Again, just like proost,

640
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: smell is a primary a primary medium for the encoding

641
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: of memory, and.

642
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: If you think about it from an evolutionary perspective, it

643
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: makes total sense as most animals over time use that

644
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: the scent, the sense of scent to find.

645
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: Their way, the sense of sense to hunt.

646
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 2: To know their mate, to know like.

647
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: Everything and that still happens now, right, So, like that

648
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: earlier study, these scientists used optogenetics to activate those olfactory

649
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: nerve cells and what they found, of course, this is

650
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: surgically implanted fiber optic cable in their heads. It's not

651
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: like they're waving a flashlight out.

652
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: The whole thing sounds barbaric when you think about all

653
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: the shocking and the inserted cables, but let's continue.

654
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: But it's for science, that's right. So what they found

655
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: is that they could replicate this memory pattern in another mouse,

656
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: and that mouse would behave as though it had personally

657
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: experienced this earlier foot shock just from the sense, just

658
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 1: from the scent would help trigger the memory. Right, So

659
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: they have a little bit of insurance here because it

660
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: would you know, technically, theoretically it would be possible just

661
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: to use that experience of pain of shock to make

662
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 1: a transferable memory, but doubling down by activating olfactory sensations.

663
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: You know, that's pretty much what they're studying there. That

664
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 1: implies a lot of stuff, potentially not all of it good.

665
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: I know.

666
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: We're supposed to be very positive and extol the benefits

667
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: that this could pose for people suffering from very real

668
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: very torturous conditions like PTSD or generalized anxiety. But that's

669
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: not where it's not like fire can fire can warm you,

670
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: it can also burn down your house. Technology has never

671
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: come with any sort of inherent and ethical mandate. I

672
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. You know why I'm I'm so

673
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: boxing a little bit about this, Matt is because, of

674
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: course DARPA has entered the game.

675
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: Of course, of course they were in this game before

676
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 2: they even announced it. I'm telling you, really, that's going

677
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: ton't surprise any of us that DARPA was like raising

678
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: their hand, going, well, we'd like to be involved, because

679
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 2: researchers associated with DARPA created this thing. It's a prosthetic

680
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: to allow for better memory.

681
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 1: Recall, Yeah, the march towards super soldierdom continues. This is incredible.

682
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: They're describing it as a prosthetic, and in the trial

683
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 1: they conducted, they showed a thirty five percent improvement in

684
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: both short and long term retention of visual information. Couple

685
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: this with the drugs that mean people don't have to sleep.

686
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: Couple this with you know, the genetic research going going

687
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: into the idea of giving people, you know, unbreakable bones.

688
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: Incredible BMI naturally that kind of stuff we're building potentially

689
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: super people. Of course, you know, I'm being a little

690
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: bit alarmist because all of these things are kind of siloed,

691
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: like the I think most of the people who are

692
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: working with DARPA money are just trying to prove they're

693
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: one very specific thing.

694
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but once you vulture on that stuff, the future

695
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: looks bright for very few.

696
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: So we also know, since we're speaking about humans, we

697
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: know tale as old as times. Certain drugs can impair

698
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: or hinder memory. Right, if someone drinks too much, they

699
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: may not remember the entirety of what they did while

700
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: they were drinking. If someone is using certain narcos or

701
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: something that will also impair their memory, or some herbal supplements, yes,

702
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: some herbal supplements cough cough, but what about how far

703
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: does that go? Are there any drugs that are specifically

704
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: designed to erase entire experiences while and this is the

705
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: tricky part. Yeah, this is the part that herbal substances

706
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: cough cough. Narcotics and alcohol don't do. When they remove memories,

707
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: they remove like entire periods of memories. Yes, what if

708
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: there was a way to reach into the jenga tower

709
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: of human memory and steal entire floors without toppling the tower.

710
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: That would be getting us into fully eternal sunshine territory, right,

711
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 2: like removing a single person from your memory inside the

712
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: Jenga tower that is all of your memories.

713
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: Right yeah, yeah, a real life eternal sunshine.

714
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 2: And we have another report here, this time it's from

715
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 2: Scientific American and quote. Neuroscientists at McGill University and collaborators

716
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: have just reported in Molecular Pain.

717
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,879
Speaker 1: Which is a scientific journal, not a really great name

718
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: for like an early two thousand zip up.

719
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 2: Well, it certainly sounds like both. But they've stated that

720
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 2: the chemical with the evocative acronym zip ZIP.

721
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: That's ZIP, not Ziprecruider.

722
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: Nope, but do use them if you need to hire

723
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: ZIP can selectively wipe out the nervous system's memory of

724
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: the chronic aches and pains that plague about one in

725
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: four North Americans, apparently leaving other memories intact. Now that's incredible,

726
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 2: removing the memory of chronic pain. It makes you wonder

727
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: because again I've said this before, my back hurts. It

728
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: always hurts if I if I don't remember that it hurts.

729
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: Is that what we're talking about here.

730
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: It'll just be a brand new day of pain, like.

731
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 2: Oh, that that does hurt. That's weird. Why is my

732
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 2: back hurt?

733
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: It will be your first time, every every time.

734
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 2: It's what I've always wanted.

735
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: You've always wanted, brand new back pain. I'm tired of

736
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: the same old back pain. Yeah. ZIP is the street

737
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: name for something called zeta inhibitory peptide. This inhibits the

738
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: memory preserving enzymes we mentioned before, pkms, right, so this

739
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: is pkm zeta. We don't know enough to determine exactly

740
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: where this stuff should be applied. We do know that

741
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: it definitely works. So this puts us a very strange,

742
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: very strange crossroads. Here's what would happen if you applied

743
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: it now. It would have to be injected directly into

744
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: your spinal cord. Is done over the counter tablet and

745
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 1: probably never will be. And if someone did that today,

746
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: injected some of this ZIP up into your spine, we

747
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: don't know. We know it would erase some stuff. We

748
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 1: just don't know what you might say. Oh okay, eternal

749
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: sunshine style, I no longer have to remember this breakup

750
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: that has riddled my life with regrets which you know

751
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: not to get too personal. I'm sure everybody has personally

752
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: experienced that or knows someone who has. You can see

753
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: why you would want that to go away. But you're

754
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: rolling the dice in a game that no one knows

755
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: the rules for. You might you might remove that breakup. Sure,

756
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: you might also remove the memory of your parents and

757
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: your entire family along with it.

758
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: You'd begin mistaking your wife for a hat.

759
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly. And I think I mentioned earlier the

760
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: idea of talking about an inexplicable memory. I want to

761
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: share this and see if we all have things like this,

762
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: and you know, you might surprise yourself when you find

763
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: that you have a similar thing. I have memories that

764
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: I know logically could not have well, I don't understand

765
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: how they would have occurred. So one of my earliest

766
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: memories is being on the second floor of a church

767
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 1: window or something like that, looking down and there's very

768
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: bright green grass. There is a police car with the

769
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: sirens on, parked on the grass, and there is a

770
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: white bed by the window with handcuffs and like blood

771
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: on the bed sheets. I've had this memory ever since

772
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: I was a kid, so whole leeh right, So it's

773
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: got to be. It's surely the logic glance would be,

774
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: this is something I saw on television right when I

775
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: was a we tyke, maybe before words something like that.

776
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: Maybe.

777
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: But I think we all have those sensations or those

778
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: those sort of tableaus, right that we we think like

779
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: this is a very vivid image for me, Yeah, but

780
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 1: I don't know where it's where it's from.

781
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: I have one like that, similarly, in a church with

782
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 2: a tornado warning of some sort or a sirens going

783
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 2: off and having to duck down and hide in a

784
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: darkened room while the sounds of a train go by.

785
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: But when I've recalled this to my mother, because it's

786
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 2: such a vivid memory of mine, sure she doesn't. She's

787
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: not exactly sure where when that would have occurred, or

788
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: which church or anything like that. And it's kind of

789
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 2: similar in the way that I don't know if it

790
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: actually happened.

791
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: Did we get mind wiped?

792
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: I don't know.

793
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: That's the problem with this. Let us know about your

794
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: your strange memories too, because for the first time in

795
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: human history, at least that we can recall, we are

796
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: on the verge of artificially controlling the individual perception of

797
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: the past. We have been making attempts as a species

798
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: to control the collective perception of the past. But now

799
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 1: we can open up the hood of every individual mind

800
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: and start to tinker with it. We're close to doing that.

801
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: And here's where the conversation gets sticky, because yes, as

802
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: you said, Matt, the obvious hope is this can be

803
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 1: used to remove painful traumatic experiences that trigger anxiety panic PTSD.

804
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: But also the same technology could possibly be used to

805
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: non consensually remove memories.

806
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: That's the MiB style, right right.

807
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: Or whatever happened to us at that church. That's crazy.

808
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: I had no idea that you had a similar memory.

809
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: But like, what are some examples beyond PTSD about how

810
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: this stuff could be used.

811
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 2: Well, imagine that you're living in a country with some

812
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 2: kind of authoritarian rule. Right, Maybe you don't agree with

813
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 2: those people who are running the country, so you'd be

814
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: considered a dissident. Now imagine that within this country, you

815
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 2: end up being detained and you don't really recall exactly

816
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: what happens. But let's say you black out for one

817
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: reason or another, and you wake up hours later and

818
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 2: you can't remember all of the things that your government,

819
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: this authoritarian regime doesn't want you to remember. You remember

820
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 2: your family, you remember that you have a job that

821
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: you're going to every day. But for some reason, you

822
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: just feel calm, like everything's okay mm hmmm.

823
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: Or maybe you even have a different memory implanted, and

824
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: your memory is about how good it felt to you know,

825
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: say the pledge. Whoa, wow, which sounds like sci fi territory,

826
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: but you know, it wasn't so long ago that the

827
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: idea of erasing memories sounded like sci fi.

828
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 2: And then imagine that occurring in mass right, not just

829
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 2: one person.

830
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, and here's another one. Imagine this is a little

831
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: bit less less sinister, maybe because this could be legal

832
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: at some point. Imagine you work with an organization, whether

833
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: state or private, that requires you to handle proprietary information,

834
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: sensitive documents, top secret, compartmentalized, your eyes only stuff. Whoa,

835
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 1: And then part of your contract says that when you retire,

836
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: you leave your job, that set of memories gets wiped.

837
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 2: Dude, Imagine if it's just a short term contractor position

838
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 2: with something like Groom Lake or Area fifty one where

839
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 2: you only work for six months and then you get wiped.

840
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: And then you wake up with you know, hundreds of

841
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars in your bank account and a very

842
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: vague letter thanking you and warning you.

843
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,399
Speaker 2: From some front company. You'd certainly prevent the next Bobblasar.

844
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, quite possibly. And also again to be completely fair,

845
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: this is this is spitballing in speculation. We there.

846
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, but again I don't think any of these are

847
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 2: that much of a stretch.

848
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's just so much more that would have

849
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: to happen with the science of it. Very true, We're

850
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: still unless the technology already exists and as somehow been

851
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 1: successfully suppressed, We're still very far away from these things.

852
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: But now they are possible, if that plausible.

853
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's very much a black mirror style,

854
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 2: like we can kind of see this occurring, or these

855
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 2: would be how it would These are a lot of

856
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,439
Speaker 2: the things we can imagine it being used for.

857
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 1: And here's another one. This one I think will be

858
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: exciting to some of the entrepreneurs in our audience today.

859
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 1: Imagine a world where you can pay to recreationally experience

860
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: the memories of other people.

861
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: Hmmm.

862
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: So let's say it's another thing Disney gets evolved in.

863
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: They map out the memories of historic moments as experienced

864
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: by firsthand witnesses. They get like someone who's landed on

865
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:16,359
Speaker 1: the moon.

866
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 2: Oh, they get doctor rendezvous memories.

867
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, they get doctor buzz rendezvous memory of landing on

868
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: the moon. They map it out, and now you can

869
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: pay whomever for them to implant that memory in your

870
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: head so that you get the first hand experience of

871
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: doing that. You can also live vicariously and do you know, philosophically,

872
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: it's almost the same as doing it yourself, right to

873
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: have the first hand memory, so you could participate in

874
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: crimes that you're not legally culpable for it because they

875
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: already happened.

876
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 2: That's what it feels like to rob a bank.

877
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: That's what Yeah, exactly, that's what it feels like to

878
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: rob a bank or something.

879
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 2: Oh. Oh, they would do terrible things for other stuff too.

880
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: Right, And then if the memory becomes inconvenient, just have

881
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: it removed. And given that we would be talking about

882
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: a private entity selling this stuff, I bet there would

883
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 1: be a lot of money spent on figuring out how

884
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 1: to make the memory implant temporary. Yeah, because you want

885
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: to sell a service now, right, not a product, so

886
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: it would eventually degrade. But then also to end on

887
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: a positive note, is one I'm personally excited about. Imagine

888
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: the potential for learning. One day we might be able

889
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: to encode knowledge sets. Right.

890
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: That's that's full on matrix stuff right there, exactly.

891
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: It's not that far from neo. Right. You can wake

892
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: up being able to play a piano, speak.

893
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 2: A new language, or say, I know kung fu.

894
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: Maybe you're in a plane that's going down and you're

895
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: you're talking to the air traffic control and they say, okay,

896
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: break open the glass door by the by the cockpit

897
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: hallway and inject yourself with this, and then you know,

898
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: just lacause now you know how to land the plane.

899
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: You know, we're we're very far away from that, and

900
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: we don't know whether we'll ever reach that level of sophistication.

901
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: But the truth is this is potentially an enormous tool

902
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: for people who have stuff they don't want you to know.

903
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: They may be able to use it sooner than you think.

904
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 2: Wow, it's really intense. And just to for my own

905
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 2: for my own happiness here, I can imagine if you

906
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: combined a bit of a controversial technique which would be

907
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: hypnotic regression, but maybe even take regression out if you

908
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: combined some kind of therapeutic counseling session with some of

909
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: these peptides, with some of the drugs and the enzymes

910
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 2: that we're talking about with ZIP and these things, and

911
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 2: to affect PKM. Imagine if you were given a dose

912
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 2: of something that was going to erase the things that

913
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: you think about for the next ten minutes to thirty minutes.

914
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 2: Then you have a guided counseling session that walks you

915
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: through the first time you saw your current partner the

916
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 2: first like the way they smell it, walks you through

917
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 2: all of that stuff as this enzyme or whatever it

918
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 2: is is actually degrading all of those connections. Then you

919
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 2: do it like three, you know, to ten times in

920
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: a row, and then eventually it's just gone.

921
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, I see what you're saying. There's also

922
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: this question, though, and of course this changes person to person,

923
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: but there's always this question what makes us us? A

924
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 1: lot of people who are maybe less on the spiritual

925
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: side will say you are, we are, or every person

926
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: is the sum of their own experiences and their own

927
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: synthesis and understanding of those experiences. Right, what I'm getting

928
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,439
Speaker 1: at here and I need to find more articulate way

929
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: to think of this getting at is the question of threshold.

930
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: How many unsavory or unwanted memories can we remove before

931
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: it begins to affect core components like personality.

932
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 2: It's a great question. I'm gonna say, around fifty.

933
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: Let's go you know what, Let's go for it. Let's

934
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 1: let's get past the mice, get straight to the people.

935
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: Let's do some experiments.

936
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 2: But in all seriousness, if any of the technologies and

937
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 2: the experiments happening right now, if any of it comes

938
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 2: to full fruition, and this is only projecting just from

939
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: my own experience, but I can only imagine a lot

940
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 2: of service men and women, people who've served in militaries,

941
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 2: people who have been through traumatic experiences, would really appreciate

942
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 2: it and stand to benefit from a lot of this

943
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 2: stuff if you could do it in a safe way. True,

944
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 2: I really like this could be incredible.

945
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: And memories are you know, as they say, memories are

946
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: one of the most important things a person has. Memories

947
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: at least up until now, or one of the only

948
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: things a person could possess that could never be taken

949
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: away from them.

950
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 2: That's right, Memories and loose.

951
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: Diamonds memories and bags of loose diamonds. Thank you so

952
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: much for tuning in, folks. We hope that you found

953
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: this as fascinating as we did, and we hope that

954
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: you find the possible ethical concerns and possible consequences as

955
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 1: thought provoking and potentially disturbing as we have found them today.

956
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

957
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts. It's right let us know

958
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: what you think you can reach to. They have a

959
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on Facebook X and YouTube

960
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok or Conspiracy Stuff Show.

961
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 2: If you want to call us dial one eight three

962
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 2: three STDWYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes,

963
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,960
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964
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

965
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 2: If you got more to say than can fit in

966
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 2: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

967
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

968
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: We are the entities to read every single piece of

969
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

970
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

971
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

972
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

973
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.