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Speaker 1: We're having a Dark Sky's premiere party for this TV series,

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Speaker 1: and it appears that somebody from the Intel community of

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Speaker 1: the United States of America crashes our party and tries

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Speaker 1: to offer us a deal.

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Speaker 2: Halfway through the pilot, I'm out there by myself, and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I hear footsteps and like Bush

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Speaker 2: is wrestling behind me, and I turn around and this

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Speaker 2: guy starts walking out of the shadows and he comes up.

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Speaker 1: As I recall, he said they thought we had done

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Speaker 1: a good job. He was saying that he had been

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Speaker 1: sent by people who had seen our pilot, and they

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Speaker 1: thought it was pretty good and there was a lot

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Speaker 1: to like about it, but there are a few things

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Speaker 1: that they thought we should know about. I'm brice Able.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever wondered if there's a secret connection between

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Speaker 1: UFOs and Hollywood and even sometimes a real man in black.

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Speaker 2: I'm Brent Friedman, and I have definitely wondered that for

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Speaker 2: about thirty years now. That question has haunted me.

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Speaker 1: Hollywood loves aliens. They've been making movies about at forever,

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Speaker 1: and we'll be taking a look at all those movies

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Speaker 1: on sound, light and frequency, going back to the very beginning.

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Speaker 1: But also going into the future and even talking about

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Speaker 1: some films and TV series that aren't even on yet.

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Speaker 2: I know you're probably wondering, why are these two guys

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Speaker 2: qualified to tell this story. Well, we're both Hollywood insiders

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Speaker 2: with lots of credits. I'm a writer, producer who's worked

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Speaker 2: in film, TV and games. I'm a world builder. I've

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Speaker 2: worked on some really big franchises, from Star Wars to

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Speaker 2: Star Trek, from Halo to Call of Duty.

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Speaker 1: Rice I started out in TV news, came to Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles as the first CNN correspondent. I eventually started writing screenplays,

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Speaker 1: ended up creating five primetime TV series, wrote some movies,

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Speaker 1: won a Writer's Guild Award, got to hang out with

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Speaker 1: some fabulous people like Stan Lee and Steven Spielberg and

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Speaker 1: a lot of others. And the strangest thing was I

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Speaker 1: became CEO of the Television Academy during nine to eleven.

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Speaker 1: The one thing I'll say is through it all, I

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Speaker 1: always kept thinking about UFOs and the phenomena.

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Speaker 2: Well and Bryce, I think we can both agree that

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Speaker 2: our most important credit is Dark Sky's the Alien Invasion

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Speaker 2: series that we co created for NBC.

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Speaker 3: What a time.

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Speaker 1: It was supposed to be a TV series about an

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Speaker 1: alien invasion, which it was, and it was very good

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Speaker 1: at that, but so many things happened during that time

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Speaker 1: that were outside of the series itself that when I

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Speaker 1: look back on it, I think it changed how we

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Speaker 1: even look at reality.

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Speaker 2: In Hollywood, there's something called the inciting incident. It's the

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Speaker 2: point in every story where the protagonist's normal life is interrupted,

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Speaker 2: setting them on an unexpected journey. Well, for us, that

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Speaker 2: inciting incident was the Dark Sky's premiere party you heard

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Speaker 2: about at the top of the episode.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing I do want to make clear. We're

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Speaker 1: going to tell this inciting incident, if you will, of

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Speaker 1: how it all happened, But it started before that. It

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Speaker 1: started with our pilot script. It was turned in and

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Speaker 1: the show wasn't even being filmed yet, and we started

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Speaker 1: getting communications from anonymous sources who seem to know what

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Speaker 1: we were up to. That kind of stuff, the development stuff,

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Speaker 1: the production, the post network life, all of that kind

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Speaker 1: of informs this new podcast and we'll tell that story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. And the thing to remember is as much

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Speaker 2: emphasis as we're putting on this story about the Men

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Speaker 2: in Black, that was really just the center that set

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Speaker 2: everything off for us. The actual series that we're going

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Speaker 2: to be doing is much more expansive, and it's going

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Speaker 2: to look at how we really were at the center

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Speaker 2: and still are in many ways of this whole experience

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Speaker 2: within the phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: It's a wild story, a wild ride. It was wilder

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Speaker 1: to be inside it. But the bottom line is it

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Speaker 1: allows us to talk about UF, Hollywood and sometimes government,

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Speaker 1: So those three things kind of mix together in the

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Speaker 1: night of that party. And there have been people that

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Speaker 1: have raised a lot of questions over the years. Here's one,

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Speaker 1: has Uncle Sam been working with showbiz to make alien

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Speaker 1: movies in order to acclimate the public to the idea

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Speaker 1: that we're not alone? People actually say that, they've been

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Speaker 1: saying it for years. On the other hand, though, I

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Speaker 1: always wonder too, does Hollywood make movies about aliens because

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Speaker 1: they're good box office? And do they make movies about

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Speaker 1: alien invasions because they're even better box office? These are

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Speaker 1: a lot of really good questions.

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Speaker 2: I personally think the answer to both questions is yes.

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Speaker 2: And look, we're going to be talking a lot about

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Speaker 2: the anomalous nature of our experiences on dark skies, But

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Speaker 2: the fact of the matter is we actually have our

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Speaker 2: own personal experiences outside of Dark Skies that relate to

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Speaker 2: the phenomenon, and I think that's one of the things

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Speaker 2: that as an experience for myself, I'm most excited to share.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to I know most. I think I

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Speaker 1: know most of those stories, all of them. That's the

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Speaker 1: thing that makes me come back. I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: hear them. I know that we both have had moments

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Speaker 1: where we felt we've been staring face to face into

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Speaker 1: the phenomenon, and it's kind of unnerving. We had some

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Speaker 1: of them happen at Dark Skies, we've had some of

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Speaker 1: them happen outside of that. Plus, whether you want to

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Speaker 1: call it the phenomenon or just the UFO issue, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we've both been interacting with it for a

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Speaker 1: long time. For me, it goes back well, I mean

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Speaker 1: from the beginning of my career as a journalist, and

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Speaker 1: even as we'll be talking about in this series, I

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Speaker 1: was a CNN correspondent here in Los Angeles, and when

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Speaker 1: I tried to pitch UFOs it went nowhere. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of interesting things that I think we

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Speaker 1: can talk.

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Speaker 2: About right well. The other thing I love about this

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Speaker 2: is that we're both coming at it from two different places, right.

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Speaker 2: I think you're much more of a journalist. You're looking

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Speaker 2: for answers and you're looking for the rational. I am

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Speaker 2: much more of, as I said, an experiencer, who is

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Speaker 2: really just believe it. Only the things that happened to me, right,

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Speaker 2: those are my truth. But we've come together as writers

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Speaker 2: of a lot of science fiction right, in both movies

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Speaker 2: and television, so we have a common knowledge. But I

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Speaker 2: think it's that intersection of our point of views that's

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Speaker 2: going to be so fascinating as we start to try

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Speaker 2: and make sense of all of this strangeness.

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Speaker 1: You know what I've enjoyed just getting ready to go

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Speaker 1: on the air with Satellite Infrequency. There are stories that

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Speaker 1: are really great stories that I'd forgotten, and I've been

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Speaker 1: going through all the files and everything, and my gosh,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of great stuff in there. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to tell people about it. And we're going to

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Speaker 1: start with that crazy night. It kind of started for

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Speaker 1: us in an Italian restaurant near the Universal cod Cod Iilsul,

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Speaker 1: great food, great meeting place, and you and I met

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Speaker 1: with our wives for lunch, and while they talked about

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Speaker 1: whatever they talked about. You told me a story I did.

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Speaker 2: That is a story that, to just be very brief,

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Speaker 2: it was essentially a story of when I was disclosed

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Speaker 2: to at age eighteen by a family friend who was

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Speaker 2: in the Reagan administration at the time. This was nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one, and I, for reasons I cannot fully explain,

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Speaker 2: he unloaded everything on me. And I told you that

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Speaker 2: story got my attention. Yeah, it's a great story, and

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Speaker 2: you know, not to be too much of a tease,

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Speaker 2: but a future episode will be all about that story.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely suffice it to say, I was already trying to

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Speaker 2: do a UFO TV series, and so it was kind

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Speaker 2: of the diversion to say, I think I'll do one

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Speaker 2: with this guy I just met.

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Speaker 1: But that's what we ended up doing. We ended up

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Speaker 1: breaking the Dark Sky's series. And this is in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety five, right, and we wrote a briefing book that

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Speaker 1: was a pretty phenomenal sales tool and it worked and

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Speaker 1: we sold a series well.

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Speaker 2: And the cool thing about the briefing book was we

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Speaker 2: presented it as though it were a real classified document.

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Speaker 2: We sealed it, we put it, wrapped it in paper

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Speaker 2: and said, for your eyes only and you had to

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Speaker 2: sign something that allowed you to see it.

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Speaker 3: It was amazing.

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Speaker 1: I believe you were out of town and so you

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Speaker 1: didn't get the experience that I had. There was no

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Speaker 1: GPS or anything. I had a Thomas Brothers map guide,

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Speaker 1: and I'm in charge of driving the studio guy around

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Speaker 1: to three networks and getting there on time.

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Speaker 3: No pressure there.

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Speaker 1: And we went to ABC first, and then I believe

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Speaker 1: we went to CBS, and then at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day we went to NBC and we had quite

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Speaker 1: an experience at nb we did. But you know, just

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Speaker 1: so I just want to paint this picture a little bit,

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Speaker 1: because there was a couple of years ago that said

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Speaker 1: our Dark Sky's Briefing Book was one of the top

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Speaker 1: twelve pitches for a television series in Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: Wow, which was kind of them. That's quite a compliment.

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Speaker 3: It was very nice what it was.

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Speaker 1: Just so everyone's very clear, you and I just made

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Speaker 1: a briefing book in a black notebook with a bunch

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Speaker 1: of papers and fake documents in everything, and that briefing book,

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Speaker 1: that black briefing book was sealed with a gold foil seal.

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Speaker 1: Then it was wrapped in brown wrapping paper. Then there

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Speaker 1: was string tied around it, and it was stamped above

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Speaker 1: top secret and all that, and it really did look

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Speaker 1: like something you might get in nineteen forty seven over

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Speaker 1: the Roswell thing.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite memories of that whole time period

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Speaker 2: when we were assembling that was we would have to

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Speaker 2: take all of the materials to the Agora Hills Kinkos,

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Speaker 2: and at some point, after enough trips, we'd get this

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Speaker 2: look as they were seeing all of the stuff we

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Speaker 2: were putting together and had probably had no idea we

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Speaker 2: were trying to tell sell a TV show. The thing

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Speaker 2: that was so great about the notebook that was so

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Speaker 2: subversive is first they had to cut the twine, then

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Speaker 2: they had to break open the paper, very interactive, and

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Speaker 2: now they see a thing a notebook that says top secret,

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Speaker 2: and there's a gold foil seal and it says on

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Speaker 2: the notebook, if you break this seal, you accept the

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Speaker 2: consequences of treason. Yes, well, that's a pretty bold thing

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Speaker 2: to give to a network executive. And all of them

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Speaker 2: open the gold foil seal. So I guess they're all

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Speaker 2: risk takers by a career anyway. So we ended up

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Speaker 2: pitching at all three Ultimately we had CBS and NBC

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Speaker 2: both wanting the show, but we pitched to Don Olmeyer,

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Speaker 2: who was the top guy at NBC ahead of Warren Littlefield.

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Speaker 2: So we pitch it.

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Speaker 1: We leave this document, we leave I'm going into the

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Speaker 1: parking lot with Jeff, and you know what people do

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Speaker 1: in parking lots.

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Speaker 3: They go, well, I don't know, do you think it

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Speaker 3: was any good? I don't know if he understood it, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, And you're just sort of doing the post mortem,

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Speaker 1: the post mortem, and Don Olmeyer comes out onto his

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Speaker 1: veranda on the second story. He had the premier office,

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Speaker 1: and he comes out on his veranda. He sees us

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Speaker 1: in the parking lot and he shouts at us, can

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Speaker 1: I buy it in the parking lot? And so that's

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Speaker 1: how the show got started, and it was a long development,

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Speaker 1: just so everyone understands. First there was the pilot that

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Speaker 1: we had to write two hour pilot, two hour pilot,

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Speaker 1: and then we had to shoot the two hour pilot.

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Speaker 1: But then they had to decide if they were going

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Speaker 1: to order episodes, So.

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Speaker 2: They tested the pilot. People liked it apparently.

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Speaker 1: Enough for them to order some episodes. So we were

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Speaker 1: working on Dark Skies for the better.

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Speaker 3: Part of three years. By the time it's all over.

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Speaker 1: Wow, crazy, Now let's get moving forward. In the summer

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Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety six, we were going to be on

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Speaker 1: television on NBC on Saturday nights for what they would

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Speaker 1: call the trilogy. We were eight o'clock then it was

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Speaker 1: Profiler profiling, the Pretender, the Pretender, and then the Profiler right,

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Speaker 1: and so NBC was like, okay, we'll get them in

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Speaker 1: with Dark Skies and they'll stick around. So because Dark

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Speaker 1: Skys had to open up that night, NBC was all about,

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Speaker 1: let's all sell sell this thing. So it was a

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Speaker 1: wild time in the middle of the summer of ninety

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Speaker 1: six because just who everyone understands Independence Day. The movie

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Speaker 1: came out on July second of that year, and a

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Speaker 1: couple of days later, Time magazine had a cover article

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Speaker 1: about Aliens have Landed, sci Fi Mix a Comeback where

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Speaker 1: they were talking about X files and Independence Day and

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Speaker 1: Dark Skies. And I talked to a guy for like

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Speaker 1: two hours from Time Magazine anyway, So things are crazy, right,

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Speaker 1: And I remember vividly how there was an alien flag

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Speaker 1: design which people can see on our website. Yeah, fantastic,

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Speaker 1: it's an American flag with an alien looking between the

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Speaker 1: stars and the strip I mean the stripes, right. And

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Speaker 1: it was done by a wonderful graphic artist, Alicia Fernandez,

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Speaker 1: and it was all over hundreds of LA buses, billboards, magazines.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't go anywhere without seeing it. I loved the tagline.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen forty seven, America was invaded, they never left.

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Speaker 3: I love that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, you and I didn't even come

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Speaker 1: up with that, I don't think. I think that was

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Speaker 1: the NBC promo department, which at that time was vaunted

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Speaker 1: as being an irresistible force. Yes, if NBC was marketing

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Speaker 1: at watch out. Yeah, and so they did a whole

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Speaker 1: selection of promos. I remember, specifically, when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: this marketing blitz. I was at the beach in Santa

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Speaker 1: Monica and everyone started pointing up in the sky and

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Speaker 1: there was a plane carrying or pulling a dark Sky's banner.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think it was the weekend that it was premiering

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Speaker 2: or something, and I just thought, Wow, those are heady days. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have arrived. Yeah, it was so cool. This was

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Speaker 2: your first TV series. Yes, I'd been on a number

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Speaker 2: of series and even created some but I never had that.

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Speaker 2: I never had that kind of treatment. And listen, we'll

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Speaker 2: go into more of the details as time goes on

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Speaker 2: in this podcast. But what I think was important about

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Speaker 2: what we just said was to paint a picture that

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Speaker 2: this was a big deal. Yeah, it was a big

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Speaker 2: deal to the network. Therefore it was a big deal

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Speaker 2: in television, and it was also a big deal apparently

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Speaker 2: in that the media had said aliens are the thing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we were.

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Speaker 1: Part of that wave. So to put in context what

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Speaker 1: we're having happened now so that you can really appreciate

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Speaker 1: the story we're about to tell you is the show

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Speaker 1: was going to air on September twenty first, nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: which was a Saturday night, and we were going to

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Speaker 1: have a party, and we were going to have television

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Speaker 1: sets everywhere and people were going to get a chance

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Speaker 1: to watch this. And this party was going to happen

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Speaker 1: at my house, which was pretty crazy, and we invited

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Speaker 1: roughly two hundred people to that party.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: Cast crew, was executives from NBC, from Sony. Yeah, there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of people there. And we did this

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Speaker 2: really cool thing where we wanted to give everyone kind

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Speaker 2: of a party Memento, and so you know, in our show,

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Speaker 2: the characters were set inside Majestic twelve, which was you know,

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Speaker 2: we can go into that. That's a whole deep dive

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Speaker 2: into kind of a secret government agency that was set

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Speaker 2: on focusing on UFOs. We decided to do was give

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Speaker 2: everyone a badge, so when they came in the door,

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Speaker 2: they had their photo taken. We got a little kind

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Speaker 2: of black and white polaroid and we made a Majestic

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Speaker 2: twelve badge for them that gave them access to the party,

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Speaker 2: and everyone was wearing these with lanyards all around the party.

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Speaker 2: It was a very specific and interesting detail that'll come

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Speaker 2: back later.

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Speaker 3: I guess.

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Speaker 1: The thing I just want to make clear is that

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Speaker 1: this was going to be a good party. I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody had their Majestic badges. We had I believe three

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Speaker 1: different televisions outside for people to watch and multiple televisions

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Speaker 1: inside the house. We had good food, and at eleven o'clock.

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Speaker 1: At ten o'clock when the show was over, we were

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Speaker 1: going to have a Beatles tribute band play in the backyard.

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Speaker 1: Because I think our fourth episode was called Dark Day's Night,

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Speaker 1: and so we knew these Beatles guys from they did

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Speaker 1: the show for us.

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Speaker 2: So it was a good party, Yeah, really good party.

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Speaker 2: All right, enough for play, enough for play. Let's get

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Speaker 2: right to the story. And since it began with you

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Speaker 2: kick it off.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So we've set up that it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty good party. But I've got a lot of pressure

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Speaker 1: on me, Brent, because not only are these people all

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Speaker 1: people that you and I know, but some of them

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Speaker 1: are pretty major guys, I mean, and women who were

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Speaker 1: executives at the studio which was Columbia TV on the

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Speaker 1: network and the network which was NBC, plus directors that

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Speaker 1: had worked for us, and there were just a lot

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Speaker 1: of important people there. And so I had two hundred

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Speaker 1: of these people in my house and I'm also trying

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Speaker 1: to throw the party, and I don't want the electrical

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Speaker 1: grid to fall apart while I've got three TVs and

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Speaker 1: I'm dealing with things like, you know, the three TVs

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Speaker 1: are out of sync in their audio, and people are

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Speaker 1: asking me questions about that, and at the same time,

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Speaker 1: someone's tugging on my shoulder going, you know, there's no

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Speaker 1: or dervs or anything. I'm just you know, I'm on overload. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and one of our producers. Brad mark Witz comes up

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Speaker 1: to me during this time where it's so hectic and

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Speaker 1: we're all waiting to go on, and Brad says, there's

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Speaker 1: this guy I.

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Speaker 3: Think you need to talk to.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, who is he?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just he's over here. Let me get him.

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Speaker 1: And he brings this guy over and that's where you

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Speaker 1: are so right. This guy does not have a majestic

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Speaker 1: badge on. He doesn't have one. Everyone else has one,

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Speaker 1: but he doesn't have one. He's about thirty years old,

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Speaker 1: by my estimation, kind of look kind of preppy or

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Speaker 1: whatever seems to my memory. You may have a different memory,

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Speaker 1: but I think he had some kind of blazer and

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Speaker 1: khaki slacks on ors.

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Speaker 3: He looked like a you know, he wasn't he was.

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Speaker 1: Lean and young and whatever.

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Speaker 3: And he.

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Speaker 1: Let me put it this way, folks, memory is a

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Speaker 1: funny thing. Thirty years later, some of the details slip,

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Speaker 1: but I just remember him being introduced or introducing himself

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Speaker 1: and saying that he had come just to congratulate us,

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Speaker 1: and as I recall, he said, they thought we had

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Speaker 1: done a good job. Like, well, who's what are you

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 3: They? And who are you?

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Speaker 1: By the way, and this gentleman said his name was JC,

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Speaker 1: or call me JC.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that was his name. He said,

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Speaker 3: call me JC.

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Speaker 1: And he was saying that he had been sent by

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Speaker 1: people who had seen our pilot. Now, remember it hasn't

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Speaker 1: aired yet. It's not like it's a government secret under

364
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Speaker 1: lock and key, but very few people had seen it.

365
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Speaker 1: They had seen it, and they thought it was pretty good,

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Speaker 1: and there was a lot to like about it, but

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Speaker 1: there are a few things that they thought we should

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Speaker 1: know about. I guess I was in a hurry, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess I was being brusque or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Body said, Okay, so you've seen the pilot. What happens

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Speaker 1: after the crop circle, which was just a very specific thing,

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Speaker 1: and the guy goes, oh, well, they take the guy

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Speaker 1: back to Majestic twelve and they do that operation and

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Speaker 1: they pull that thing out of his head. And I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. Nobody and my party necessarily had

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Speaker 1: seen it that night. It had not aired yet. Now

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Speaker 1: I want to throw this over to you, because I

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Speaker 1: didn't talk to him much longer because again people were tagging,

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Speaker 1: you know, tugging on my shirt and saying you got

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Speaker 1: to go put this fire out here, or you got

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Speaker 1: to go talk. And I just, you know, I just, frankly, Brent,

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Speaker 1: I invited him to leave the party. I said, I

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Speaker 1: don't know who you are, and I have other things

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Speaker 1: on my mind, and I'm not sure why you're here,

385
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Speaker 1: and I think you should probably go, And then I

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Speaker 1: left and I assumed he had to, but you know differently.

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Speaker 2: Well, so so now to set the stage that was

388
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Speaker 2: before the show aired. For the show aired, okay, so

389
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Speaker 2: now fast forward to about an hour into the two

390
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Speaker 2: hour pilot. So, well, Bryce is glad handing and whatnot.

391
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Speaker 2: Remember I'm the nube. I'm I'm I don't evenmber what

392
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Speaker 2: my title was, but I was not.

393
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Speaker 3: You were supervisor. I produced.

394
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Speaker 2: We weren't that much of a newb right I was,

395
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Speaker 2: But well, I was a nube to like this level

396
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Speaker 2: of the industry. And one of the things that I

397
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Speaker 2: remember was I had never been through a post production

398
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Speaker 2: process where I had to watch a cut of this

399
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Speaker 2: pilot probably over a hundred times as we went through

400
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 2: cut after cut and then mixing and then testing and

401
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 2: all this other. So by the time it aired, the

402
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Speaker 2: last thing I wanted to do was sit and watch

403
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Speaker 2: it again. What I became very interested in was watching

404
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 2: people's reactions to it, especially in the back half, because

405
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 2: there was some really scary stuff. And so I decided, well,

406
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Speaker 2: I'm going to break away from the party and go

407
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Speaker 2: out to the backyard and find it kind of a

408
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 2: vantage point where I'm just by myself and just watching

409
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 2: people watch it. So again, halfway through the pilot, I'm

410
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,479
Speaker 2: out there by myself, and all of a sudden, I

411
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 2: hear footsteps and like bushes rustling behind me, and I

412
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Speaker 2: turn around and this guy starts walking out of the

413
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Speaker 2: shadows and he comes up and as Bryce described him

414
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Speaker 2: thirty something, I would say he was like a cross

415
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 2: between like you know, military and fraternity, right, not super handsome,

416
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 2: but really kind of agreeable like, and he didn't seem

417
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Speaker 2: threatening at all. He had a navy blue blazer on

418
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Speaker 2: with a white shirt and press jeans and black shoes.

419
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Speaker 1: And respectfully, we've done all right, already, we've undercut our

420
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: own story. I'm going with khakis and you're going with

421
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Speaker 1: press gens, right, all right, continue, Okay, So.

422
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Speaker 2: What happens is I'm standing there, this guy comes out,

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Speaker 2: and the first thing I notice is he has no

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Speaker 2: majestic badge on, right, because I don't know who this

425
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Speaker 2: person is, and I'm counting on that badge to give

426
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Speaker 2: me a name so that I don't look like the

427
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Speaker 2: nube that I.

428
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Speaker 3: Know I am.

429
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Speaker 2: But he has no badge. So I go, hey, how's

430
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 2: it going, And he goes, well, you must be really proud,

431
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, oh, well, yeah, I mean this is

432
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Speaker 2: my first show. Yeah, yeah, I got to tell you

433
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 2: you got a lot, right, And I just remember thinking, well,

434
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Speaker 2: that's an interesting thing to say, like meaning we had

435
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 2: a lot of good shots, we had a lot of

436
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 2: good cuts. The music was like, I don't what do

437
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 2: you mean we got to lift stuff?

438
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 3: Right?

439
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah, it seems pretty clear. You talk

440
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 2: to someone. Now, as Bryce mentioned, we're not going to

441
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 2: get into the story of what I'll call a briefing

442
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: that I got when I was eighteen years old by

443
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 2: someone very high up in the Reagan administration who was

444
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: a friend of the family. But in fact, I had

445
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: talked to someone and I probably knew a lot more

446
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 2: about ufology and the conspiracies and whatnot than I should have,

447
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,719
Speaker 2: or that I even wanted to. But in that moment,

448
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 2: I thought Oh my god, I'm going to be arrested.

449
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 2: I have told Bryce the stories of what I knew,

450
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 2: and we put some of them in dark skies. And

451
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: now there's a guy here who's not part of Sony

452
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 2: or NBC saying I spoke to someone and now I'm

453
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: seeing him not as a fraternity guy, but as some

454
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: sort of FBI CI agent who's going to take me away.

455
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 2: And so for a moment, I was frozen. I was

456
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 2: just like a deer in headlights. And then he said, yeah,

457
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 2: so you got a lot right, but there are some

458
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 2: things you got wrong, and that's why I'm here. I

459
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: represent a group that would like to work with you

460
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: and Bryce to get more truth into your show, and

461
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: we'd like to make a deal with you.

462
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: Guys.

463
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: Now you have to understand, this was all I didn't

464
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: know this level of Hollywood before, so this was all

465
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 2: like incredibly surreal to me. There's a guy talking to

466
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: me about making a deal. He's from some branch of

467
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: the military in the government, and I don't even know

468
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: what to say. And I said, well, okay, well what

469
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: would that mean exactly? Well, we we want to get

470
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: you some truth in the form of some facts, maybe

471
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 2: even some media, and we'd like to have you integrate

472
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: that into your show as part of what what we

473
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 2: would call kind of a slow rollout disclosure program, because

474
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: work from a branch of the military that believes the

475
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: truth does need to come out, and that is kind

476
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 2: of one of the central conceits of your show. In fact,

477
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: that was what Longuard's whole mantra was, that the public

478
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: needs to know. And so just a loan guard being

479
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: the name of our main character. Yes, correct. And so

480
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: I'm listening to all of this, and in the midst

481
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: of this, my wife, Patricia walks up, as I'm sure

482
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: many couples do, you have your own kind of coded language.

483
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: And my wife walks up and says, Brent, Bryce is

484
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: looking for you, which I took to mean, oh, she's

485
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: offering me an off ramp out of a conversation I

486
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 2: might not want to be in. I didn't think you

487
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: were really looking for me. You had much more important

488
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: things to do. But I told her hold on. I

489
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: gave her kind of the one minute because I wanted

490
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: to hear more from this guy. And I said, okay,

491
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: so how would this deal work? And he said, well,

492
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 2: we can have a deeper discussion about this. Let me

493
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 2: give you my card, and he pulls out a card

494
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: and all it said on the front was J Dot

495
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: C Dot with a phone number three to one zero number,

496
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: and there was nothing on the back. Now, that part

497
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: is happening completely to you, and we're a little fuzzy

498
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 2: on some of the actual deal here. But what I

499
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: think I remember, and what I think you remember, is

500
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: you were standing at the barbecue. And I know this

501
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: because the barbecue is where I do a lot of

502
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: work in my house, right and it's near the kitchen door.

503
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: So I think I which is how people were getting

504
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: into the house, and I think I was walking by

505
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: to go inside, and I look over at this barbecue

506
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: and there is Brent Friedman, the supervising producer of Dark Skies,

507
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: talking to this guy JC, who about an hour and

508
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: a half earlier, i'd said you need to leave the party,

509
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 2: and I wasn't particularly happy that. I wasn't sure what

510
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: I was going to do about it, but I believe

511
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: that stopped me from going in because I do remember

512
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: very clearly watching what happened next. And I'm going to

513
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: let you pick up the story there. Okay, So he's

514
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: given me the card, and he says, so, what I'd

515
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: like you to do is talk to Bryce and then

516
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: give me a call if you guys are interested in

517
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 2: discussing this this deal. And I in that moment I thought,

518
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,719
Speaker 2: I did not know that you had already spoken that

519
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: you'd had an encounter with him, And so in that moment,

520
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: I had a quick flash of I'm going to tell

521
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: Bryce that a guy came out of what felt like

522
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: the bushes at the shadows at his backyard without a

523
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: badge from the government that wants to make a deal.

524
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: And I know what Bryce's response is going to be.

525
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: It was going to be hell no. And I chuckled,

526
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: just like I involuntarily. I went, well, okay, I'll talk

527
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 2: to Bryce, and the the kind of like very amicable

528
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: demeanor that he had immediately left and he said, I

529
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: can see that you're not taking this seriously. And he

530
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: turns to Patricia, my wife, and he says, ma'am, do

531
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 2: you have a piece of paper and a pencil like a.

532
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: Borrow just to set the table here. That probably explains

533
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: why Patricia, your wife, who was there, You think she

534
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: only came to pull you out of an uncomfortable conversation.

535
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: But I think she probably was telling the truth, because

536
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: it was weird enough for me that I would have said,

537
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: if i'd ran into her, I need to talk to Brent. Yes,

538
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: because this was crazy. Even though I was distracted mightily,

539
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: it was crazy. Yes, So that's why I was lurking nearby.

540
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: So pick it up.

541
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 2: So she fumbles through her purse and she pulls out

542
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: a piece of paper which actually happened to be a

543
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: we're going back to nineteen ninety six, an ATM deposit

544
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: slip envelope, right where you put the slip in with

545
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: with the cash or the check or whatever. And she

546
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: tears off the triangular kind of backside with the stickum

547
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: on it, and she gives that to him with a pin,

548
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: and he takes it and he starts drawing something on

549
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: his palm right there in front of us, and after

550
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 2: about thirty seconds, he kind of looks at it like, Yep,

551
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: that's what I wanted to do. He folds it in

552
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 2: his palm and he hands it to me, and he says,

553
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: do me a favor, hold on to this for about

554
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: ten fifteen years, put it in a safety deposit box,

555
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: and in case we don't end up working together at

556
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: that time, you'll know that this was serious and that

557
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: I was for real. And I said, uh, okay, I'm

558
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: getting chills just hearing this again. Can I can I

559
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: look at it now? And he said sure. So I

560
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: unfold it and I look at it and it's hieroglyphics.

561
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 2: It's what we've come to call the formula. But it

562
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: means nothing to me. And I said, well, I don't

563
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: understand what is this?

564
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: And before you answered that no, it was something that

565
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: when you showed it to other people later and when

566
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: I saw it that night, all of this were like,

567
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: what exactly is this thing? But it was very specific.

568
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: We'll be talking more about it in future episodes as

569
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: we try to uncover what it really is. But I

570
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: just wanted to get that in there because you're asking

571
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: this guy, what is this?

572
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: What's his answer?

573
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: His answer is very casually, very straightforward. Sound Light and

574
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: Frequency Secrets of the Universe. Sound Light and Frequency Secrets.

575
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 3: Of the Universe.

576
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: All right, we're back, and Brett, I have to say

577
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: I loved the mic drop moment of sound, light and Frequency,

578
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: and I have to tell you part of me just

579
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: wanted to end the podcast right there and go away

580
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: for a week and come back because I don't know

581
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: if we can do anything that makes it better, but

582
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: it raised so many questions.

583
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: It does, and I think we're obligated at this point

584
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: to answer or at least try and answer, some of

585
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: those questions. And I think the first one is why

586
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: why did this guy come to us? We've talked about

587
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: the fact that Aliens were big and our show was

588
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: huge at that time, but let's look at some of

589
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: the facts here. First fact is I was disclosed to

590
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: when I was eighteen by a high level person in

591
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: the Reagan administration. That was the inspiration for our series.

592
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: And while we didn't take anything specifically from that conversation,

593
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: we did lean into the idea that there had been

594
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: a cover up going on for a long time. Right

595
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: number two, The fact that there was obviously some sort

596
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: of secret government agencies working behind the scenes. Those were

597
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: pillars for us in terms of what the Dark Sky

598
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 2: Show was. Let's look at another interesting fact. When we

599
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: sold Dark Skies, we sold it with this concept that

600
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 2: it was the truth under the veil of fiction, and

601
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: even in our Dark Guy's notebook, in our briefing book,

602
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: we had a letter from John Lowngard the character, saying

603
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: that he was trying to tell the story under the

604
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: veil of fiction. Well, that was what JC wanted to do, right,

605
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: He wanted us to use Dark Skies as the fiction

606
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: to pump in his truth. Is that a coincidence?

607
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: Well, let me just point out to anybody, if you

608
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: go to our website Soundlightfrequency dot com, you can read

609
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: that so famous Loan Guard letter and you can see

610
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: I believe the phrase he uses in the letter is

611
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: quote cover of fiction.

612
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 3: Yes, which I like.

613
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: A couple of quick thoughts on why us, why then?

614
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: And it goes back to that context issue, for better

615
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: or worse. It's not like we set out to do it,

616
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: but we suddenly had an extremely high profile show. A

617
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: lot was writing on it, a network's actual bottom line

618
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: financially was writing on it because they were trying to

619
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: open a new Saturday night thing. And if it worked,

620
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: that rising tide raised all the boats at NBC. And

621
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: if it didn't work, that was a problem, and you're

622
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: weren't going to get any numbers for the nine o'clock

623
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: or ten o'clock show. If us the eight o'clock show failed,

624
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: just a lot of profile, and then that time magazine

625
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: things like that. And I had just come off making

626
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: a movie for the Sci Fi Channel, which was very

627
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: high profile for them. It was their first one and

628
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: it was all about eufology and abduction, official official denial crash,

629
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: And will more on that later. But there was a

630
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: certain visibility at that time. So when you were telling

631
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: me your story about the briefing you had, I was

632
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: telling you the experience with making this movie. And then

633
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: and again this will come up in a later episode

634
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: in detail.

635
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 3: And you'll be able to see it.

636
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: But in the summer of ninety five, this is a

637
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: year before the show. A year before the show, I

638
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: got a postcard at my house with a nineteen sixty

639
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: two book sci fi book called The Flying Eyes on

640
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: the outside of it, and it was typed in a

641
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: dark typewriter ribbon on the other side, and its message

642
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: was we are watching you. And it freaked me out.

643
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: As you remember, I came to you in that summer

644
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: and said, who wrote this?

645
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? Did you?

646
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: I think you thought you did it?

647
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? I thought, you know.

648
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: I mean, this is kind of funny and I appreciate it,

649
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: you know, as a piece of humor, but what's going

650
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: on here? And then we you know, so we'll be

651
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: talking about that later. But the point is we were

652
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: high profile, there was reason to come to us. But

653
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: I want to take it one other level, though, those

654
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: are the reasons why somebody might be interested in the

655
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: show just because of it is a delivery vehicle. But

656
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: there's a whole other level to this, Brent that has

657
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: me thinking, which is, Okay, what would be since this

658
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 1: guy JC had seen Dark Skies before most people had, right,

659
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: and they saw our Bible too, and seen our Bible,

660
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: read the script and said we got a lot right,

661
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: said we got a lot right, had actually said that

662
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: he had read some of our scripts that had not

663
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: even be shot yet. I mean, this guy that seemed

664
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 1: deeply briefed in not through no intent on our own,

665
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: this guy knew all this stuff. So I asked myself

666
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: a different question, and that is, what was it that

667
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: was in the Dark Sky's pilot, which is what he

668
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: had seen, that would cause anybody in the intelligence community

669
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: of the US government to say, these guys would be

670
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: a good delivery system for us. What did we have

671
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: that they thought we got right?

672
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I've asked myself that same question. I think

673
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: there's probably a long list of stuff. There's so many

674
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 2: things in that dark sky's pilot, but I think let's

675
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: focus on the things that were unique. What were we

676
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: bringing to ufology that might have got their attention. Well,

677
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 2: let's go down the list. The first one is the

678
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: big one, linking JFK and Roswell. Yeah, and I think

679
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 2: you know you had this great idea right out of

680
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 2: the gate. Let's take the two biggest conspiracies and put

681
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: them in an atom collider and see what happens and

682
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: allow us to create kind of the unified field theory

683
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: of not just upology, but conspiracies. And that was our

684
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 2: big idea. The strangest thing though, is that since then

685
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: what we felt was a big, high concept fictional idea

686
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 2: has actually gained traction within the UFO community, and a

687
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: lot of people believe it's true. It's amazing and of

688
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: course you can read all about it on the internet now,

689
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: But when we were coming up with the atom collider

690
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: theory of conspiracy, there was no real internet to tell

691
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 2: us any of that stuff. So we just made this

692
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: stuff up. And now, of course certain documents are being

693
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 2: looked at and certain ideas that John Kennedy, for example,

694
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 2: going back to the post war period was in the Navy.

695
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 2: The guys that said they came to us were from

696
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: the Office of Naval Intelligence. Yes, supposedly. The man that

697
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: gave you your briefing at the age of eighteen was

698
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 2: Secretary of the Navy. So the strong Navy thing. And

699
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: one of the things they did tell us I remember

700
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: was that that was something they thought we got very right. Yes,

701
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: that it was the Navy, and everybody always thinks it's

702
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: the Air Force because they're unidentified flying objects.

703
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: Right.

704
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 2: So now let's go to another thing. This one is

705
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 2: a little more fringe, but we introduced this idea of

706
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: crop circles being an alien communication device, not alien to human,

707
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: but alien to alien, that they were essentially markers of

708
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: where abductions had taken place. Very strange idea, but that

709
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: that was something that certainly no one else had posited,

710
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 2: and since then I don't know that anyone has actually

711
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: said that that is a theory that they buy into.

712
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,439
Speaker 2: But that is again something unique that we put into

713
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: the Dark Sky's Pilot.

714
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: There are three things that I am proud we put

715
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: in there, because I believe they're the triad of some

716
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: of this stuff we put in abductions. I mean, our

717
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: story begins in its early pages with John Loanguard's girlfriend

718
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: Kim Sayers being abducted, so we take on the abduction

719
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 1: phenomenon right away. We put Loan guard versus a target.

720
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: Then as a member of Majestic twelve, we put that

721
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: out there, and a lot of people at that time

722
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: were saying, well, I don't know, there's some documents, but

723
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: I think they're fake. But we bought into it. We said,

724
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: Majestic twelve, that's the hot zone and also involving Roswell

725
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: in it, because remember one of our central tenets from

726
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: the beginning was if Roswell is a true event, that is,

727
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: if Roswell is an anomalous event that represents a non

728
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: human intelligence interacting, colliding, crashing around humanity, that changes everything.

729
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: So if you're going to land in the Kennedy Administration

730
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty one, and that's where your main character

731
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: is going to work, it means if everyone thinks everything

732
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: is great, it's the new Frontier and everything, there's still

733
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: an alien issue going on underneath the surface. And I

734
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: think it was our underneath the surface part of it

735
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: that was also probably interesting and attractive to them.

736
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was the essence of our idea was,

737
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 2: let's take this notion that Roswell was real and it's

738
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: this truth that's lurking beneath the surface, and let's have

739
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: our characters decide that JFK, the man of the people,

740
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: is the one to blow the whistle, right, and that's

741
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: what gets him killed.

742
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Now, there's also one very crazy idea in the Dark

743
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: Sky's pilot that, if indeed it is true, would cause

744
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: somebody in the government to freak out. Yes, and that

745
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: had to do with the grays. Now, we had grays

746
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: in Dark Skies, and a lot of people have grays.

747
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: I mean, X Files has grays, and grays are like

748
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: a staple. But what we did with the grays in

749
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,439
Speaker 1: Dark Skies is we brought in a guy called Patient zero.

750
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: He was a farmer at that crop circle and it

751
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: turned out that he had an alien ganglion implanted in

752
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: his brain and they took him to MJ twelve and

753
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: as we said earlier, they pull it out. Yeah, okay,

754
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: and that ganglion was there to sort of modify his

755
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: behavior as a body snatcher's kind of thing. But even

756
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: gnarlier and what's interesting about that is that as soon

757
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: as they see that, the head of Majestic twelve says,

758
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: get me the Roswell sample, and they bring in a

759
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: formaldehyde beaker full of raws Zwellian stuff, and it is

760
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: a ganglion that looks identical to the guy they just

761
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: pulled out of this human being, But it was pulled

762
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 1: out of one of the Roswell Grays.

763
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 2: Yes well, And so that idea that the Grays are

764
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: this enslaved race essentially by some larger hive mind was

765
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: crazy at the time. And yet what is going on

766
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 2: in current day ufology. A lot of people are saying

767
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: that the Grays are just automatons that are working for

768
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: some larger alien intelligence. Right, So was our show a

769
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: metaphor for that idea? Were we truly ahead of the

770
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 2: times and dialed into a truth that we didn't even

771
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 2: know at the time. These are the coincidences and the

772
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: questions that will you drive this show forward?

773
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: I guess if I had to speculate, I'd have to say,

774
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: any of those are possibilities that could have drawn somebody

775
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: to us. But the bigger issue, it seems like if

776
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: Dark Skies said anything, it said what we actually say

777
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: in the main titles History is a lie. All right, now,

778
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: that's what we originally wrote. The network made us change

779
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: it to history as we know it is a lie, which, okay, whatever,

780
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: But I think that is the subversive bit of dark

781
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: Skies that just could get in somebody's mind and make

782
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: them say, these guys are telling a pretty interesting story

783
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: because we weren't saying ancient alien's history, although we did

784
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: say that, we were saying current modern American history is

785
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: a lie.

786
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

787
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: And there was one review that came out for the show.

788
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: I wish I could remember who actually wrote these words,

789
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: but they called it the most subversive show on television,

790
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: which I actually take as a badge of honor. Yeah,

791
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: but that may be why they thought it was so interesting,

792
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: because if in fact, they were working behind the scenes,

793
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: are under the reality that we face, and they realized

794
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: history was a lie and we were saying it every week, well,

795
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: that would get their attention.

796
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: Let's just put this party crasher thing in final content.

797
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it.

798
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: I think over the years, both of us have talked

799
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: about this at nauseum. Now we're talking about it in public,

800
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: but there are a number of questions that keep coming

801
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: up and the first one I think we have to ask,

802
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: is this deal that JC proposed. He said it was

803
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: for disclosure, it was for this honorable like, let's get

804
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: the truth out to the people. But I don't think

805
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: that we can discount the idea that maybe it was

806
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: all part of a disinformation campaign.

807
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: I've never discounted that because my first take was that's

808
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: what it was. My first take was, first of all,

809
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: it's a hoax and this guy's not who he says

810
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: he is. But then as I began to say, I'm

811
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: giving him more credibility than that, I then began to say,

812
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean he's telling me the truth. I

813
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: mean that's where the journalist of me came in. I mean,

814
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: as I like to say, I've been lied to by experts,

815
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: and I thought, there's no reason in the world to

816
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: accept on face value what this guy is saying. So

817
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: it could easily have been disinformation. In fact, Brent, the

818
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: more we have learned over time about disinformation, the government

819
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: has been disinforming as a matter of policy or military strategy,

820
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: going back to D Day and before. Yeah, right, so, yeah,

821
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: of course it could be disinformation. But then that raised

822
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: all its other questions, which is, why are they disinforming

823
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: me and Brent Yes, yeah, why do they need us?

824
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

825
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: Anyway, then another interesting question is when you start looking

826
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: at some of the kind of the coincidences around what

827
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: we had as content in the pilot and the series,

828
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: how certain things have come to be seemingly true years later.

829
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: It raises this very interesting question that lives you know,

830
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 2: firmly in the phenomenon is does fiction somehow become truth

831
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 2: over time through the miracle of consciousness? Right, we are

832
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: in an age right now where everyone is doing deep

833
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 2: dives on consciousness to try and understand how we are

834
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 2: co creating our own reality. Right, some of the shows

835
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: we're going to be looking at in the future we're

836
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: very prescient. But there's another possibility that they actually seeded

837
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 2: the public consciousness with ideas that then became true once

838
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: enough people started to believe them. Can't discount that. The

839
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: last thing I want to go into is, as we

840
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, we can't have been the only ones in

841
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: Hollywood to been offered such a deal. It raises the

842
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: question who else was visited by a man in black

843
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: and offered us what jac did? And by the way,

844
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 2: Brent even as we talk about this, we're not actually

845
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: telling anyone at this point what our response was to

846
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: this offer. That's true, that's part of the story. And

847
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: again we're not trying to be KOI or over hype

848
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 2: it or anything, but we sort of want people to

849
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: go on the same journey that we went on so

850
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 2: that they can understand what we're thinking when certain details

851
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: are coming out. And your point about the deal is

852
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: well taken. I guess I'm thrilled that they came to me.

853
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: Maybe I am, but it certainly doesn't mean other people

854
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: might not have been approached. And in fact, as you

855
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: and I have dug deeper into this over time, we

856
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: keep running across cooperation between the military and certain movies

857
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 2: and certain directors, which I guess takes us to the

858
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: big mcgilla here, which is, if there's anyone who has

859
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: done more for films that relate to ufology and TV

860
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: shows and TV shows, it would have to be, you know,

861
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: Steven Spielberg. At the same time, you'd also say there

862
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 2: has been a persistent belief in the UFO community that

863
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: somehow Steven Spielberg was briefed or offered a deal like

864
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 2: our deal. So we're going to look into that. That's

865
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 2: going to be the next episode. Next episode, we are

866
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: going to do a deep dive into Close Encounters of

867
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 2: the Third Kind, which is probably the seminal film in ufology,

868
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: and take a look at all of the rumors that

869
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:12,959
Speaker 2: are surrounding it.

870
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: And tell you a little bit about the film so

871
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: that you can sort of do what we just did

872
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 1: with Dark Skies as you dissect it into its pieces.

873
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: They exist not just as a film, but they exist

874
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: as a reflection of what's going on in ufology when

875
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: the film came out. Remember Spielberg did this in nineteen

876
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: seventy seven. I mean, this is early stuff. It's not

877
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: that far removed from some really really terrible movies of

878
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties, and nobody touched the mythology of

879
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 1: UFOs if you will, like Spielberg did and has continued

880
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: to do. So he's our next guy. Yeah, it's going

881
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: to be a great episode. We'll see you next week.

882
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: Thank you, see you. Sound Light and Frequency is an

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00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: iHeart podcast produced by Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by

884
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: Nick Johnson and for Stellar Key's Abel. Our show's music

885
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: was written by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser, and your

886
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: hosts and executive producers are Brice Abel that's me and

887
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: Brent Friedman. Watch the Skies