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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new

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Speaker 2: commentary and insights and updates.

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Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episode seventy five, which we named Breakfast Wine.

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Speaker 2: This episode came out June twenty ninth, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get into it. Let's listen to the

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Speaker 1: intro of episode seventy five.

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Speaker 2: Karen, Yes, Hi, is this an ad?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Can I talk to you about a food delivery system? Hey?

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Speaker 1: Your mouth and its delivery fo it's called your hands,

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Speaker 1: called your hand, tails mouth ork, and we're advertising that

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Speaker 1: to deliver that.

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Speaker 2: Shit open to your mouth. Hi, welcome to my favorite murder. Hi,

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Speaker 2: what can I get murdered? That's Karen. Hi, that's Karen,

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Speaker 2: and that's Georgia and you're yeah, yes, Hi, guys. Hi,

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Speaker 2: Thanks searching in and in. It's a late one tonight.

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Speaker 2: It's a late night. It's kind of a it's a sultry,

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Speaker 2: hot Los Angeles night. We have to record late because

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Speaker 2: of my work.

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Speaker 1: We got some mood lighting that's actually not mood, it's

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Speaker 1: just lighting.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's just a bit of lighting, pure lighting.

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Speaker 2: We've got an unsolved mysteries paused on the teeth shit

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Speaker 2: to turn that off.

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Speaker 1: It looks like decoration, kind of can you get Okay,

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Speaker 1: So it's paused on like a woman walking through a graveyard.

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Speaker 2: She's very eighty.

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Speaker 1: She's got feathered hair and like a black flowy dress,

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Speaker 1: and she looks very forlorn.

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Speaker 2: But she's also her dress is belted, and she's got

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Speaker 2: a great waist. Yeah, jealous of that.

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Speaker 1: She looks amazing, and she clearly put on a lot

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Speaker 1: of blue eyeshadow before she went out.

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Speaker 2: You had to back then. It was it was kind

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Speaker 2: of like your way of saying, ham out here, cars

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Speaker 2: don't run me over.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm single, I'm super sad, but I'm also like

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Speaker 1: living my life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, just because I'm at the cemetery, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean I'm not going to bring right one hundred Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying they didn't have in the eighties. They didn't.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a mess.

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Speaker 1: I always wonder, like, WHOA what would happen if you

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Speaker 1: went back in time, went to the eighties and then

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Speaker 1: like use the sayings from today people think you're cool

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Speaker 1: or insane or from Germany?

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Speaker 2: Right, those are the only three choices. How are you?

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Speaker 2: I would like to go back to the eighties and

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Speaker 2: just tell myself, just.

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Speaker 3: Relax a little bit. Oh my god, don't have to

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Speaker 3: talk somewhere. Yeah, I would like to say, stop fucking caring.

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Speaker 3: Stop caring.

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Speaker 2: You can't do that though when you're a teen, No,

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Speaker 2: there's too many chemicals in your brain.

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Speaker 1: But I was in elementary school and I wish i'd

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Speaker 1: stop caring. I haven't done new psychiatrists this week. And

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Speaker 1: she did this thing where she asked me questions like

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Speaker 1: a half an hour, which I love, but there were

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Speaker 1: all questions where I had to be like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess I do feel like I had to admit a

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Speaker 1: lot of shit and like I had it. She was like,

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Speaker 1: and when we were a kid, how did I how

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Speaker 1: did you feel? And I'm like, well, I guess I

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Speaker 1: hated myself like I had the like yeah, you delayed

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Speaker 1: all on the line. This woman I just met, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like this nice older one, like old nice lady

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Speaker 1: who ignored me completely. When I was like, well, my

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Speaker 1: sex drive's kind of down, she was just like moving

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Speaker 1: on in the next brauld not.

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Speaker 2: She's like I'm not talking about that.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Well, she was Armenian too, like, so I think

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Speaker 1: she was just this like kind of proper nice Armenian woman.

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Speaker 2: What if she was like, here's the thing, we're going

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Speaker 2: to cure that sex drive, and it's going to be

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Speaker 2: out of you entirely. You're going to be balls deep

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Speaker 2: and fucking Oh.

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Speaker 1: No, if I it was sitting the opposite or she

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Speaker 1: was just like, we're going to that's all we're going

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Speaker 1: to concentrate on.

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Speaker 2: Is we're saving that for its own day? Yeah, separate

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Speaker 2: sex day. Yeah. God, I'd love to hear about that

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Speaker 2: when it happens. Sex day. Yeah, I mean today's right now?

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Speaker 2: Sex day? Is it? Oh? You got the cure? I

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Speaker 2: don't know what that meant. I don't either. I'm just

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Speaker 2: trying to improve your sex talk. Here. Look, here's the

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Speaker 2: first thing I need to tell you, Stephen and everybody

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Speaker 2: in America. Of course, there are Italian Jews. I know.

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Speaker 2: Of course there are Italian gem knew that we were kidding,

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Speaker 2: I mean I don't. I think I was just kind

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Speaker 2: of wondering aloud. But man, did the Italian Jews come

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Speaker 2: out and drow? So let me know that they exist?

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Speaker 2: Me too?

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Speaker 1: And I have to quo oh fucking I'll have her name.

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Speaker 1: But someone wrote, of course there are Italian Jews. I'm

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Speaker 1: one of them.

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Speaker 2: Think of us as as the pizza bagels of religion.

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Speaker 2: And now she's just like whoa, that was perfect? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Or isn't that racist? Well, if she is the one

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Speaker 2: saying it and it's her thing, doesn't she get to

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Speaker 2: describe herself however she wants?

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Speaker 1: And also it's like, well, you're talking about a bagel,

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Speaker 1: which is a Jewish thing. You're talking about pizza, which

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Speaker 1: is an Italian thing, you know, traditionally, And so it's

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Speaker 1: not like.

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Speaker 2: It's yes, it totally makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, Gone, it is a logical joke, my backtrack, and

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Speaker 1: it's a good joke.

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Speaker 2: Uh So yeah, that's I mean, we might need to

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Speaker 2: cut corrections corner out entirely. It keeps going this direction.

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Speaker 2: Corrections corner is that we're cutting out correct here's the

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Speaker 2: correction we need to make. We need to stop talking

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Speaker 2: about it. No, but this was a real, real good

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Speaker 2: email that Stephen just gave me. Uh. Subject line is

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Speaker 2: my dad was John Orr's partner. So this was I

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Speaker 2: think from two episodes ago. John Orr was the arsonist

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Speaker 2: Arson investigator in Glendale, California. It was Glendale, right, yeah. Okay, so,

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Speaker 2: uh so here's this email. Howdy Hey, howdy, Hey, that's

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Speaker 2: the greeting. So I'm driving to work and I have

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Speaker 2: been listening to your podcast from the beginning. I hadn't

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Speaker 2: listened in a few days, and I started off with

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Speaker 2: the mini episode and you started mentioning John Orr. My

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Speaker 2: mouth dropped open, and suddenly I was in a car

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Speaker 2: searching for the podcast where you talk about the arsenist

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Speaker 2: John Orr, and I couldn't believe it. We were talking

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Speaker 2: about a man who I grew up with, who was

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Speaker 2: my dad's partner at the fire station. My dad worked

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Speaker 2: for the Glendale Police Department, and the two were paired

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Speaker 2: up so that they would have a police officer and

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Speaker 2: a fireman to investigate possible fires that had been started

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Speaker 2: by arsonists. They were partners for six to ten years,

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Speaker 2: and we knew John and his family the entire time.

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Speaker 2: He had been setting fires right under my dad's nose.

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Speaker 2: My dad does recall that there were times when my

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Speaker 2: dad was the one who was on call for the

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Speaker 2: weekend in case of any fires were suspicious. They were

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Speaker 2: on call most of the time and would race to

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Speaker 2: the scene of the fire, and most of the time

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Speaker 2: John would show up saying things like I thought you

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Speaker 2: might need my help. My dad would get so annoyed,

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Speaker 2: but but we now know why he was there. My

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Speaker 2: dad and a few of the men with some of

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Speaker 2: the ten people with some of the ten people you

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Speaker 2: spoke of were board members of the CCAI California Conference

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Speaker 2: of ours investigators attended all of the Arson seminars in Fresno,

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Speaker 2: in Monterey, and as a matter of fact, they were

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Speaker 2: once John's peers. As I was listening to your podcasts,

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to scream and say, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. And I so badly wish I could

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Speaker 2: have called in all show. Yeah, we're going to do

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Speaker 2: one episode, right a Colin. I mean, that's so Lario.

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Speaker 2: It's just someone screaming, screaming, I know that is There

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Speaker 2: was so much this entire story. My dad stopped being

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Speaker 2: his partner before he was caught and arrested. My dad

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Speaker 2: did have to testify against him and was investigated because

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Speaker 2: John Orr was his partner. You spoke of him possibly

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Speaker 2: being a psychopath, and I recall my dad telling me

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Speaker 2: different stories about how different situations, how indifferent he would

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Speaker 2: act toward different things. So I think there's something too that,

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Speaker 2: a definite lack of empathy. I've never seen the forensic

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Speaker 2: files on his story, and I remember when the movies

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Speaker 2: was released. Of course, no one in my family saw it.

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Speaker 2: The book you spoke of was really disheartening because the

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Speaker 2: man who wrote it mentions my dad several times. Because

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Speaker 2: John spoke of my dad, John and the author were

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Speaker 2: not kind. The author of the book never once spoke

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Speaker 2: to my dad, and most of the book is John's opinion.

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Speaker 2: He is a psycho and deserves to be locked up

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Speaker 2: in jail for the rest of his life. I think

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Speaker 2: he is crazy because I never thought that there would

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Speaker 2: be anything that would speak of, oh, that you would

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Speaker 2: speak of, that would have anything to do with me

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Speaker 2: at all, And so you bring up the one story

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Speaker 2: that I could say anything about. I went to work

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Speaker 2: and told everyone the story. Still my jaws dropped open.

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Speaker 2: You left me speechless. Rock on with your bad selves,

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Speaker 2: and don't play with matches. That's all. Hugs from the

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Speaker 2: Sexy Murdery No Tea. Oh my god, I love it.

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Speaker 2: That's hilarious. That's crazy. I mean, the fucking chances. Well. Also,

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Speaker 2: I mean, as we now know pretty much everyone we

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Speaker 2: talked to, everybody had is one oh basically one step

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Speaker 2: away from a murderer, murderer experience.

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Speaker 1: In my story tonight, there's there's a murdering no involvement

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Speaker 1: really yeah, which is like so exciting.

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Speaker 2: That's very cool.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to tell you speaking of one step away

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Speaker 1: and hand the mouth consumption.

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Speaker 2: So you did the Zancu chicken.

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Speaker 1: Murders a while back, yeah, and uh Saylor, a couple

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Speaker 1: of nights ago or while back, Vince got Zangou chicken

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Speaker 1: and we of course got extra and saved the fucking

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Speaker 1: amazing garlic sauce that they give you with it. That's

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Speaker 1: like fucking none all over the city. I have made

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Speaker 1: a martini with it, with the garlic. Yeah, clearly it

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Speaker 1: was after one martini then, was it?

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Speaker 2: Huh, it's good. I mean it was gross. It was good.

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Speaker 2: It was gross. You know what I mean. I'm just

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Speaker 2: trying to picture it. Was it like floating inside the martini?

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, I like, I like stirred it up really well,

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Speaker 1: so it was like a garlic confused martini. Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: with the fucking garlic stuffed all of with it.

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Speaker 2: Well, that sounds good. Drink.

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Speaker 1: It was like a dirty martini though with sankoo, chicken,

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Speaker 1: garlic sauce, kind of strong tasting good. I like garlic

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Speaker 1: because that sauces. I mean you taste it for days after. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you belch that for fucking days. Good for you, though,

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Speaker 1: I just want to let you know I love it.

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Speaker 2: Anything else, I just want to bring up the hilarious

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Speaker 2: person who mentioned on Twitter yesterday or today, hey don't

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Speaker 2: you think Stephen kind of sounds like Tina Belcher and

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Speaker 2: I could not stop laughing. And then a barrage of

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Speaker 2: people were sending gifts of Tina Belcher going like, yeah, baby,

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Speaker 2: it was so hilarious. Let me hear it. Man, this

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Speaker 2: is a short fucking getting right into it. It's a

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Speaker 2: late night. Let's just do it a late night, all right.

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Speaker 2: This is a skipper's dream show.

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Speaker 1: Come on, you don't even have to skip soon's first?

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Speaker 2: Am I right? Whoo oh? I'm sorry, but good enough,

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Speaker 2: You're not good enough. This is the episode where we

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Speaker 2: tell you that, but this, but we're gonna do it

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Speaker 2: subtly through me naming who goes first. I know it's

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Speaker 2: tough to hear. I mean, I've always known.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you're not telling elementary school Georgia anything now.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, let her come out. I want to speak

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Speaker 2: to eleven year old Georgia right now. Okay, tell her

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Speaker 2: to tell that psychiatrist that you want to talk about

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Speaker 2: sex asap? Is that creepy to talk about? I feel

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Speaker 2: like on my my own mom, when your mom talks

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Speaker 2: about sex, you're like, what my mom, Janet? What I

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Speaker 2: young my mom? Being the nurse, you'd always be like, girls,

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Speaker 2: it's natural, and we just be like, oh, it was

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Speaker 2: totally like a woman's body is. The chemicals in a

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Speaker 2: woman's body are very special. Women get have needs and

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Speaker 2: wants to.

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Speaker 1: Get me out of What about pool when you call

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Speaker 1: it the female orgasm, there's something about the risk the

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Speaker 1: female orgasm.

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Speaker 2: Female orgasm has a little tank bow on the side. Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's adorable and quiet and it's just easy and it

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Speaker 2: smells like baby powder. Moving on.

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Speaker 1: Then you're got to move on from the day from

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Speaker 1: the real orgasm. That's right, the man orgasm, and we

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Speaker 1: won't call it the man orgasm. That's right, the orgasm,

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Speaker 1: but the female fries.

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Speaker 2: Up all right?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the other night I couldn't sleep, and as always,

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Speaker 1: I click on any fucking article that is about some

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Speaker 1: kind of case or murder or horrible thing that's going

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Speaker 1: to make me not be able to sleep yep, which

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Speaker 1: I already can't do.

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Speaker 2: Right. So I found one.

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Speaker 1: Called the eighteen creepy Murder Cases You've Never heard of

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Speaker 1: That'll fuck you up on BuzzFeed.

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Speaker 2: And oh, I read that because you well, I read

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Speaker 2: one that was murder cases that You've never heard before

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Speaker 2: because I always love to read and be like I've

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Speaker 2: heard of it.

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Speaker 1: It's just going to say, oh yeah, try me, I

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Speaker 1: was I always heard it, heard it or like, and

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Speaker 1: it's like the craziest like nine to one to one

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Speaker 1: call murders and it's like, I I knew that one

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Speaker 1: and it's not that crazy.

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Speaker 2: And then you don't know what crazy is.

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Speaker 1: Then you have the assholes in the comments that I

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Speaker 1: was like, he forgot this murder and it's like they

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Speaker 1: didn't forget it.

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Speaker 2: They didn't put it in because it's not that you know, yes,

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Speaker 2: So it's almost like no matter what is, whoever's coming

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Speaker 2: towards that article is going to be an asshole, like

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Speaker 2: we are, yes.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and I was leading the pack, but shout out

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Speaker 1: because at least half of them I didn't know. So

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Speaker 1: this is from eighteen creepy murder cases you've never heard

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Speaker 1: of that'll fuck you up.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I almost did one on this list, I swear

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Speaker 2: to God, and at the last minute I just didn't

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Speaker 2: do it. This one's boring. I go ahead, I live

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Speaker 2: for the week we do the same murder.

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Speaker 1: I know what happens, the world explodes, it's just where

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Speaker 1: it will be a ton of laughing, and then we'll, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we'll do something totally different.

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Speaker 2: And we'll never do the podcast the end. What if

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Speaker 2: Steven here it is Stephen, at some point in your

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Speaker 2: job that you are now currently being paid for, you

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Speaker 2: write up two murders and you keep them in a

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Speaker 2: file in your big backpack. And then if there's day

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Speaker 2: ever comes where we do the same murder, you pull

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Speaker 2: out the two mystery murders and then we have to

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Speaker 2: read those.

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Speaker 1: No, because go ahead, just from like zero, like you're

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Speaker 1: just like here, you go, yep, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You guys are good to know. But I love the

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Speaker 2: idea of usting the same murder. Would crack the fuck up.

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Speaker 2: We'd freak the fuck out, Like, how did we both

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Speaker 2: know this? I just would just do it simultaneously, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to one after the other. It would just be

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Speaker 2: like and then us have paragraph by paragraph. I think

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Speaker 2: it'd be so fun.

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Speaker 1: I think people who don't like our speech patterns would

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Speaker 1: hate us, but I think it'd be really fun.

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Speaker 2: I'm like looking forward to it. Okay, Stephen canceled that

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Speaker 2: assignment and instead, could you just pre prepare others murder?

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Speaker 2: You know what I want you to do.

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Speaker 1: I want you to fucking get like one of those

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Speaker 1: I want you to get like party supplies, like loud making,

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Speaker 1: party supplies, glitter thing, and the day that we have

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Speaker 1: the same murder, I want you to fucking shoot glitteratus

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Speaker 1: and blow one of those blow yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, and like put a party hat on all

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Speaker 2: of it. I know what that means, Stephen. That means,

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Speaker 2: since you never know when it could happen, you always

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Speaker 2: have to have a pocket full of glittering and a

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Speaker 2: blower in your other pocket. Party hats for all of us.

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Speaker 2: He's reaching you. I wish you guys could see Steven's

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Speaker 2: back back It is the biggest backpack I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: It's a jam sport. I think it's standard sized, but

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Speaker 2: there's something about what carries in it or whatever he's

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Speaker 2: doing that it honestly looks like it looks like a four.

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Speaker 1: Year old baby and Mimi could fit in there. And

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Speaker 1: it's one of those ones that you see on like

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Speaker 1: the Late NIGHTMI. Its like, is your kid's backpack screwing up?

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Speaker 2: It's back eleven to find out.

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Speaker 1: I love that they would call the kid it and

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Speaker 1: screwing up.

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Speaker 2: That's the that's the news I want to watch screwing

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Speaker 2: up its back Maybe you should get rid of it.

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Speaker 2: What a pain in the ass that thing.

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Speaker 1: Jesus is gonna have back problem now, just like you,

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Speaker 1: you fucking asshole.

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Speaker 2: Why are you reproducing? Why did you produce? Wow? Your

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Speaker 2: long weeks? Fine child? Can we could that segment a

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Speaker 2: little bit? Sure? Fine? No, I mean the news? No,

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Speaker 2: I know, okay, not you. I was continuing the improv,

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Speaker 2: but I went too real with my character and then

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Speaker 2: I always blur the line like that.

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Speaker 1: I meant like, okay, you should never you we should

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Speaker 1: never you always us always the news, always the news.

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Speaker 2: Character, it's always there. If we took one improv class,

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Speaker 2: imagine how annoying. We would be imagine how we would

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Speaker 2: heighten an.

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Speaker 1: Expand yes and lose so many listeners.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's play zip dabs off and then we'll start.

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Speaker 1: You know, like one maybe one third of the fucking

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Speaker 1: listeners understood that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I don't know. I think the improv and

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Speaker 2: comedy are taking over the world. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: required now that if you're twenty four, you've graduated from college,

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Speaker 2: you don't have a job. You have to take a

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Speaker 2: class that.

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Speaker 1: You learn well in group settings, you kind of feel

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Speaker 1: lost and you're like, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, I need a circle of dudes to stand in

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Speaker 2: you and one woman, one token woman. Yeah, objectify.

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Speaker 1: It was really funny. It was really funny. But she

355
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Speaker 1: doesn't she's not super hot.

356
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Speaker 2: It doesn't You might have to wait to see her

357
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Speaker 2: for a while. Yeah, so she's like a bro. So

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Speaker 2: I just keep doing improv scenes where I have to

359
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Speaker 2: touch her butt. What is happened? What character are you now?

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Speaker 2: Is it's the same news anchor that guy's fucked up? Wow? Yeah, okay,

361
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Speaker 2: and we are back. Seems like we might need to

362
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Speaker 2: keep a like a running taally of how many times

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Speaker 2: I insist that we discuss Italian people because it happens

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Speaker 2: a lot to this day. We love those Italian people.

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Speaker 2: It's fun to talk about.

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Speaker 1: I want to say one thing when I was reading

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Speaker 1: through the transcript and thinking about this episode, and I

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Speaker 1: mentioned this psychiatrist that I had seen blowing off something

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Speaker 1: very important to me that I said, and I remember

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Speaker 1: that psychiatrist. You should find a psychia I trust who

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Speaker 1: takes your shit seriously. This woman, I went to her

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Speaker 1: a couple times, and I stopped going to her, and

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Speaker 1: I never got the help I needed from her. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that was such a like a moment

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Speaker 1: when I'm back in twenty seventeen that I didn't think

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Speaker 1: about at the time of like or maybe I knew

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Speaker 1: but didn't process that she totally blew me off when

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Speaker 1: I was telling her important things for myself, like that

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Speaker 1: mattered when it came to medication, absolutely, And the psychiatrist

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Speaker 1: I went to after her in the same practice, I

381
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Speaker 1: told her, you know, she said this and this and

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Speaker 1: this to me, like she had said to me, why

383
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Speaker 1: are you upset? You're so put together? Because I had

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Speaker 1: like a dress on and I was like, oh, okay,

385
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Speaker 1: that's not good.

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Speaker 2: That's a weird thing for a friend to say, yeah,

387
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 2: much less a psychiatrist. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to be clear that it's funny

389
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Speaker 1: back then, but you got to find a.

390
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Speaker 2: Psychiatrist who takes her issues seriously absolutely, and that you

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Speaker 2: get to whatever that preference is. Even if what she

392
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Speaker 2: said was like, why are you upset? I like your

393
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Speaker 2: dress or you know what I mean, And if it

394
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 2: seemed whatever, if it's hitting a weird chord with you,

395
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 2: you're right because if you actually put it in the

396
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 2: world of oh, well, I'm not qualified the way they're qualified,

397
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 2: you'll always lose that and in that specific conversation you

398
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,400
Speaker 2: can't hold those normal standards. You have to go with

399
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Speaker 2: how does it feel? Am I comfortable? Do I like

400
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Speaker 2: talking to this person?

401
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Speaker 1: Right?

402
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 2: I mean it's also funny like having to revisit these

403
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: episodes where we didn't know what we were saying was

404
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 2: going to be such a problem, Like now we look

405
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 2: at it or read it or see it, and they

406
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 2: were just like, oh no, we're opening the door for

407
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 2: people to act mad at us or say they're mad

408
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 2: at us. But like saying the line about the pizza bagel,

409
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 2: saying that out loud, it's like It shouldn't be a

410
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 2: problem because the context is there, and the context is

411
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Speaker 2: really important, unless, of course, people are kind of looking

412
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,120
Speaker 2: for things to be upset about. Where it's like, we're

413
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Speaker 2: talking about Jewish Italian people. The pizza bagel part is

414
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 2: just part of that conversation. It's not a bad saying.

415
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 2: Neither of those foods are bad.

416
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Speaker 1: And someone refer to themselves as that, I think it's

417
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Speaker 1: very funny as a Jewish person that I'm not Italian.

418
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Speaker 1: So maybe it's I don't know, maybe it's not, but

419
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Speaker 1: I think it's funny.

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Speaker 2: Literally, two of the appointment foods that I make when

421
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Speaker 2: I go to New York City pizza and bagel. They're

422
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,640
Speaker 2: winning the food wars those two items, those cultures.

423
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Speaker 1: You're not calling me a salad or like a sad

424
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Speaker 1: salad or something like, I'm okay with that.

425
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're two of the culturally most successful foods. Whatever.

426
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Speaker 2: I don't know. People should get to say whatever they

427
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Speaker 2: want about themselves. We can't explain it.

428
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Speaker 1: It's never going to be explained away to someone who

429
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Speaker 1: wants to get upset about it.

430
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Speaker 2: Right, But it is kind of interesting. John Orr's relative

431
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 2: writing in to basically be like Hey, that book was

432
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 2: a bunch of bullshit against my dad. That was a

433
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Speaker 2: very new thing for us in that moment.

434
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Speaker 1: That was really interesting that like, yeah, listener got information

435
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: from a parent or you know, someone they knew that

436
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: was involved in the case and got it from their side,

437
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: and that is so interesting and realizing that we could

438
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: get that. It was really exciting, I think to hear that,

439
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: and you know.

440
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 2: Instead of it being almost like reality TV fan talkback content,

441
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 2: it's more like, could you please try to be more

442
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 2: like journalists where they're like, what would be fair if

443
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 2: this person's family heard it? What would be fair if

444
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: this person's family like kind of being a little more

445
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: conscientious in that way, or just at least after the fact,

446
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: if people have something to say, they get to speak to.

447
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 2: I think that it felt good to be able to

448
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 2: give an update that somebody wanted to give. Yeah, No,

449
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 2: it was really cool. Yeah. Okay, now we're going to

450
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 2: get into Georgia's story about the mainline murders. Now, let's

451
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 2: get it into murder now. Let's please all right, So

452
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: eating Kaslah.

453
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: Thanks by the feat because you helped me a lot.

454
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 1: Karen Ardmore, Pennsylvania. Okay, this is a really fucked up

455
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: case that I'd really never heard of, Okay, and I

456
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: was shocked because it's fucking crazy.

457
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 2: So it's okay.

458
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: Early seventies. A woman named Susan Reiner. She's a pretty

459
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: kind of mousey looking thirty something year old English teacher

460
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,719
Speaker 1: at Upper Marionne Area High School in the Mainline suburbs.

461
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, this is called the Mainline Murders. Okay,

462
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: damn it.

463
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 1: That's it's open with that. It's about twenty minutes from Philadelphia.

464
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: Susan is married with two children, and she's having an affair, yes,

465
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: with the chair of the English.

466
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 2: Chair, like Clint Eastwood in that speisty case.

467
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: Sorry, I remember how I was screaming at the chair

468
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: and my psychologist recently, she's having an affair with that chair.

469
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: Oh my god. She's doing a role play with a chair.

470
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: And then it got out of hand and she's like,

471
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to fuck this chair. Yeah, got serious. She

472
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 2: left her husband for the chair. Stephen, we have to

473
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 2: pull all this out, all.

474
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: Right, So imagine at a high school. Just picture the

475
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: chair of the English department. Okay, tweed vests tweet vest

476
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: in the seventies, heavy beard.

477
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: The very large beard and maybe some like aviator shaped

478
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: glasses that are indoor outdoor what do you call those?

479
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: Transition lenses?

480
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: And Susan herself, there's like not a lot of photos

481
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: of her, but she's.

482
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: Like cut and mouse and you can tell she's kind of.

483
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: Probably sopt spoken, and she has these the like the

484
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: eyeglasses that are just take up half of her face.

485
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: Ye're like saucers on her face, right, which like looks

486
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: cute and it's like cool.

487
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: And it's very seventies. Is like, yeah, maybe just when

488
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: contact lenses started, when the contact lenses were as big

489
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 2: as glasses frame, yes, glasses lenses anywhere.

490
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: She said, and cram theming around. You were just shoving

491
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: huge thing and they're made of glass back when.

492
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 2: Can you tell? Maybe it was when if it's sell

493
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 2: out at a party, people could help you find it.

494
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 2: That's how big they were.

495
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: I was always proud of myself, how good I was

496
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: it faying my mom's contacts when.

497
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: Such a weird era just is gone.

498
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so she's boning her fuck the chair of the

499
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: English Department. But I think here's the thing. I think

500
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: he's a Ted Bundy type.

501
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: This English Department chair. Yeah his name Okay, so then

502
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 2: he might have been sorry, but yeah, he might have

503
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: been going toward her then yeah, okay.

504
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: And she's having an affair. She has two children. His

505
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: name is Bill Bradford, the guy. Nope, his name is

506
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: Bill brad brad Field. Okay, name is Bill Bradfield. I'm

507
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: gonna call him Bill. Okay, Okay, So Susan is the woman.

508
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: Bill's the fucking creep English department head. And he's super

509
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: charismatic and charming. He's described by some of the other

510
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: teachers as a sumer intellectual who was quote full of himself.

511
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: Oh so he's like a Ted Bundy charming. He's like

512
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: ten years older than her. She's swept off her feet

513
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: by him, and she's just like probably like I've never

514
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: felt she's never had a female orgasm until she met him.

515
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: I bet you. First second I thought that was in

516
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: the BuzzFeed article. I was just like, huh wait what Also,

517
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: if he's a pseudo intellectual, I bet you he carried

518
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: a pipe around with.

519
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: Him, pipe tweed, elbow pads some I think transition lines,

520
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: a heavy cologne. I bet he put like oil in

521
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: his beard, Yeah, cultivated his beard really trimmed it up

522
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: every morning, and.

523
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: He probably had like really expensive whiskey, right, and he

524
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 2: had a book of erotic lithographs that he would invite

525
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 2: people over to look at.

526
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: Like, how are we so good at this just describing someone?

527
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: I feel like we've lived past lives in the seventies

528
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 2: and we're really pissed off about what we were subjected to.

529
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: Dude, Okay, and I agree enough already with us having

530
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: to deal with these people.

531
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: No, enough, all right.

532
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: By March seventy nine, Susan leaves his left he husband,

533
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: and she tells her friends that Bill Studo Intellectual is

534
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: going to marry her.

535
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 2: They're engaged. She's truly in love.

536
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: She's madly in love with him, obsessed so much so, Karen,

537
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: that she gives him twenty five thousand dollars when he

538
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: tells her that he has a crazy great investment opportunity,

539
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: twelve percent gains, it's only going to be six months

540
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: and I.

541
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: Need it in cash, damn, Susan.

542
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: Okay, she gives him twenty five thousand dollars to invest.

543
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: She has two children and back then, what was that?

544
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 2: Oh my Almo's one hundred.

545
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: Thousand years and her kids Karen is eleven. Hi, Karen,

546
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: you're eleven. You're not eleven.

547
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: It's not you.

548
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: Karen's eleven, Michael's ten. So she has like two young children.

549
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: She's giving this dude money and are you ready for this?

550
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: She makes him the beneficiary of her life insurance policies.

551
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: This is not going to go well worth. How much

552
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 2: do you think of life insurance policy for this woman

553
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 2: would be two hundred and fifty thousand dollars set over

554
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 2: seven hundred thousand dollars.

555
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: Oh no, she cuts her children out of the life

556
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: insurance policy and she changes her will to make him

557
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: fill the soul hair hair Nope, no hair to her estate.

558
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: So okay, So she's she's getting a number run on

559
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: her heart. She's it sounds like she's pretty naive.

560
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: You know. It's like a small suburb of Pennsylvania. She's

561
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: an English teacher.

562
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: She's not. All the things that I wanted to be

563
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 2: real for her are probably not true. She's like she's

564
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: got her she as my dad likes to say, she

565
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 2: got her bell wrung by this. Oh my god, you're

566
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: right like the guy that it's that thing where and

567
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: it's a really good trick that scumbags use where it's

568
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: that thing of like they pick out people that they

569
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: know don't get certain kinds of attention, and then they

570
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: slatter you with that kind of attention, so that you're

571
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: kind of like, oh, he's picking me of all people

572
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: in the world. You never felt this way before.

573
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, fine, get your bell rung and ship,

574
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: but like at the cost of your children.

575
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: Just the will, No, just the will for your sweet

576
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: English chair side piece.

577
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: And she wrote in it like like who's the beneficiary?

578
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: What's his relation? Like my intended husband? Like she fucking really.

579
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: Thought this guy's going to marry her.

580
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she didn't know that. Bill of course was

581
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: living with another woman for years, also a teacher at

582
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: the same school. So he's just fucking getting his hairm

583
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: which they did call it that.

584
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: Did she And she didn't know that at all.

585
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: I think he was like, we're roommates, there's no sexual relation,

586
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: you know, Like I think something like that happened.

587
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: It's really hard.

588
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: This took me a long time because of course, like

589
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: all of these crazy, really interesting murders, there's some fucking

590
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: pieces that you just keep finding.

591
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's not a lot of information on them. Okay.

592
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: He also had at least two at least two other girlfriends,

593
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: one of which was an eighteen year old former student

594
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: of his.

595
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, So the twenty five.

596
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: Thousand dollars he had said was really investing had gone

597
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: into a safe deposit box put in there by one

598
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: of his girlfriends, and the term was ending soon.

599
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: So she was expecting her money soon. Okay, what's going

600
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: to happen? Bad things?

601
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: Yes, the night of June twenty second, nineteen seventy nine.

602
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: So we're nineteen seventy nine. Susan and the kids named

603
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: Karen and Michael. They're planning on meeting Bill. It's like

604
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: a night of a crazy hailstorm. A neighbor saw them

605
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: leaving their house just after nine pm. And the neighbor

606
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: happens to be the aunt of a murder EMAI. What

607
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: I fucking I went into my favorite murder email account,

608
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: put in the name of this thing, and out comes

609
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: like five emails, and one of them, the chick was like,

610
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: you've got to look this fuckond email at.

611
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: Her name is Gina A. She says that her.

612
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: Mom, so Gina wasn't born yet, but her mom was

613
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: the next door neighbor of this family, and she and

614
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: her sister used to babysit Karen and Michael, and that

615
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: hurt that. Gina's great grandmother swore that she heard screaming

616
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: the night they left, which is never confirmed, but the

617
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: aunt and the great grandma stought were the last people

618
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: to see them leaving the house.

619
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah.

620
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: So at that point Susan and her kids vanish.

621
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: But then three days.

622
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: Later, thank you Gina A for writing in by the way, Yeah,

623
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: three days later. June twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine. It's

624
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: almost exactly a year ago. No, yeah, well, well not

625
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: a year ago, I meant, okay, I know what you meant, Stephen.

626
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: Stephen's thirty years ago, is that right?

627
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: No? Yes, thirty years ago? Yes, no, thirty No, twenty

628
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: seventeen eight, only thirty two years. That's exactly the kind

629
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: of math I can't do.

630
00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: Like me too, and every other kind of math, geometry

631
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: and everything.

632
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: Oh man.

633
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: I even told my psychiatrist about that yesterday, that I

634
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: just can't do math.

635
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: Did you have a math shut down in high school?

636
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: I had a math shot down my whole life. I

637
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: had to get sent to a hypnotist about because my

638
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: math was got so crazy that I'm going to help you.

639
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: Oh my mother had some idea about the female orgasm

640
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: and about hypnosis. Did I help? She was very she

641
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: was a very spiritual. She was she was like new Agy,

642
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: I'll touch new ag. But then but from a registered

643
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: nurse background, do you know what I mean? She's like,

644
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: I've seen results. These are the things I've seen results in.

645
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: Good for her.

646
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: I fucking meant to talk to you about this documentary

647
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: I watched about a cult over the weekend, but I forgot.

648
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: Okay, next time, Okay, any who hypnotists? Okay? The kids

649
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: disappear three days later, a year ago, June twenty fifth,

650
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine. Yep, a man.

651
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: She calls the police about a quote sick woman in

652
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: the trunk of the car of a car in the

653
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: parking lot of the host in in Sworda Township, Pennsylvania.

654
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: It's about ninety miles from Susan's home and in the

655
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 1: trunk of her own car, which was an orange I

656
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: wrote this down for you, an orange Plymouth Horizon hatchback.

657
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: Did she ride? Which is like such an eighties in

658
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: one of those a Plymouth Horizon hatchback. I feel like

659
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: I can see what that is. Yeah.

660
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she's in the back, in the hatchback and

661
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: her body is found there.

662
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: Oh, she was nude. Susan was nude.

663
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: She had been severely beaten, she had two black eyes,

664
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: she was bound with a chain so tightly that the

665
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: chains left bruises on her back. And she was killed

666
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: with an injection of morphine. And it had been twenty

667
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: four to thirty six hours after the beating in which

668
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: she had been killed, and there was no sign of

669
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: her children. Oh yeah, So obviously Bill fucking teacher or

670
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: English guy was the main suspect once the investigators found

671
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: out about the affair, which he had been denying to everyone,

672
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: oh and saying wasn't true. And they found out but

673
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: the money, But he had an alibi for that weekend

674
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: that she went missing. He was at the beach in

675
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: Cape May, New Jersey with a bunch of other teachers,

676
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: and they all vouched for his whereabouts.

677
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. But even even if he wasn't nearby in that

678
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: exact same time, why would she leave you as the

679
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: beneficiary on her will if you weren't having an affair

680
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 2: or if there's no connection to you. But they were

681
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: at that point where like, yeah, he was, like he was.

682
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: I don't think he ever denied it to the police

683
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: that they were oh yeah, just around town.

684
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, got just like to the other teachers and stuff.

685
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: But he was out of town.

686
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: And after a couple of years, there's still not enough

687
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: evidence to charge him with Susan's death and the missing children. Okay,

688
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: but there was enough evidence for prosecutors to charge Bill

689
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: with theft by deception because of the twenty five thousand

690
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: dollars she had given him and what turned out to

691
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: be a bogus investment. Oh so they were like, we

692
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: know he fucking had something to do with her disappear murder.

693
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: We can't charge her for that. Let's just bring him

694
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: in for this for now. So, seventy two hours before

695
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: his trial was supposed to begin, from his jail cell,

696
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: Bill files a claim to collect Susan's life insurance money

697
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: that was left to him.

698
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 2: Sorry, what's this? There are so many twists and turns

699
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 2: in this fucking thing. He sends a stamped envelope out

700
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: in a bird's mouth out the jail cell window.

701
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: I did read conflicting things that he was actually not

702
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: in jail yet, but he was or he wasn't, but like,

703
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: what kind of.

704
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 2: Fucking idiot right before this would be like, but you

705
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 2: know what, you should add on to those charges. Yep.

706
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 2: If I just get that money real quick, I'll be

707
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: able to plea.

708
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: So the jury finds him guilty, obviously, and in nineteen

709
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: eighty one he sentenced to up to two years in

710
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: jail for the twenty five thousand dollars. And then during

711
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: this time, police are also investigating someone else. So here's okay,

712
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: let's switch fucking let's go to another fucking weird thing happening.

713
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: Principal of the high school where Susan and Bill were teaching.

714
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: The principal is doctor J.

715
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 2: Smith. I'm gonna call him Principal Smith from now on

716
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 2: so we know who he is.

717
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: He's a fifty year old dude, and he was known

718
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: as the quote creepy school principal. So those dude's are

719
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: fucking creep. Principal Smith, absolute creep. The teachers jokingly called

720
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: him the Prince of Darkness.

721
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's a joke. Yeah, that is funny, joke.

722
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: That's funny. What's your nickname? Oh me? Oh, it's a

723
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: devil joke the Prince of Darkness because I'm so lighthearted,

724
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 2: because I love to be your own children, and I

725
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: am of the devil. I have goat eyes and a case.

726
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: It's a thing of like when you go to a

727
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: doctor's office and you fill out your thing and it's.

728
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: Like, what name do you like to be? Like, do

729
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 2: you have a nickname that you want to be called? Yeah?

730
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 2: Friends of Darkness? Marty, Marty were friends of Darkness. I

731
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: don't think not your dad. I go by Marty. Okay, but.

732
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: Okay, So this is my favorite fucking thing in the

733
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: entire world.

734
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: Ready for the best quote you've ever heard? Yes?

735
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: So, crime writer Joseph Wamba wrote a book about the

736
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: whole case called Echoes in the Darkness, which is like.

737
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 2: Same guy that wrote the John Orr book.

738
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, this guy he was a cop and

739
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: he was like goodbye, I'm going to go make a

740
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: ton of money instead.

741
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. So he in the book says that quote.

742
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: Some thought that Jay Smith, the principal, look like an

743
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: obscene phone call.

744
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of better description of someone that's

745
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: fucking genius? An amazing? It look like an obscene phone call.

746
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: So he's like, what he's like I picture, like shoulders

747
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: up around the ears, kind of like wringing his hands,

748
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 2: like greasy hair. Yeah, big thick glasses. Oh man, he

749
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: looked like an obscene phone call. That's amazing. I want

750
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: to go ahead, and that was that's beautiful. Congratulations Joseph

751
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: Wamba or John Joseph Joseph. Yeah, okay.

752
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: So he's known to be eccentric, eccentric and a weird man,

753
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 1: often sitting in his office during school hours wearing only

754
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: his underwear. No, she could get away with in the

755
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: fucking seventies.

756
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 2: It's not allowed, Mary, can you take these papers? Principal Smith.

757
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to be here anymore. I'm just hot.

758
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: It's winter. It's hot in here. It's the dead of winter,

759
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 2: Principal Smith. And it's midnight.

760
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: Well, I'm the Prince of darkness, so I'm just constantly

761
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: sweating and it's midnight.

762
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: Why did you call me in? What did you call

763
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: me in from home? Yeah? Because I'm the Prince of darkness. Okay.

764
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: There's rumors around town that Principal Smith had devil worship

765
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: sex parties and had burned bodies in the school incinerator,

766
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: and Barry chopped up body parts. So I guess they

767
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: were building a school pool at this time, and so

768
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: people are like, he's fucking bearing bodies underwhere they're building

769
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: the pool, so they'll be hidden forever.

770
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 2: I just have to say that both of those rumors

771
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: that you just named sound like they came out straight

772
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: out of the third grade classroom.

773
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like, but what if they're turning up bodies?

774
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: He has a cult sex parties and everyone's like, that's

775
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: not a thing. I mean people fucking swap and bone,

776
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, there's no occult, Like, nobody wants to

777
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: have an a cult sex party.

778
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: No, but he is sitting. What's worse and harder to

779
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,959
Speaker 2: face is he literally is sitting in his underwear during

780
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 2: school hours. And that part's true. That so who cares

781
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 2: if the others isn't that don't need to make up

782
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: satanic parties when the principal's sitting in his underwear in

783
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: his office.

784
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: Like enough, Like your parents are going to be like,

785
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: but that's okay about any of it, my mo, mom?

786
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: Okay, So but.

787
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: Doctor Principal Smith's own kid, Stephanie Hunsberger and her husband Edward,

788
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: disappeared in early nineteen seventy eight, like a year before

789
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: Susan went missing. They were reportedly heroin addicts. They fucking

790
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: disappeared of nowhere, and they were assumed they had left

791
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: on the room because they were drug addicts. But till

792
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: this day they've never been seen. A wow, so people

793
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: assumed they're.

794
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: In the pool too. Yeah, whoa.

795
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 1: So a year before Susan's body is found, Principal Smith

796
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: is caught trying to break into cars in a mall

797
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: parking lot.

798
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: The principal is trying to break into cars in the

799
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: mall parking lot.

800
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: And on him are four loaded guns, as well as

801
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: silencer made from an oil cut oil filter, a tranquilizing drug,

802
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: and quote a hood with two slits.

803
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: For the eye. No, yep, what are those called? Cavit

804
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: cav bella clava. That's not a bottle clava. Though, thank you,

805
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 2: I can never get that. Thank you for your input.

806
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 2: I can never get that fucking word. It's you know why,

807
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: it's weird, But I always think of Balenciaga, the designer.

808
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: But two isolates is more zodiacy. Yeah. The bottle club

809
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: like sticks to your faces like sche mouse and you

810
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 2: have an opening for the mounts yeah, right, you're right.

811
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: And also it's just more devil worship. Ye yeah, but

812
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: how do you breathe through that? I guess just slowly

813
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: and you stay calm with your tranquilizer in your pocket

814
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 2: and your four fucking guns.

815
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: If you're a sociopath, you're not panicking, right, that's right,

816
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: all right? So when his house is searched, police, fine,

817
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: swing your publications, best reality porn and chains and locks.

818
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: This is just a safety thing. He has a ton

819
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 2: of bikes. He loves bicycling, you know what. You're probably right.

820
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: Let's go back exonerate.

821
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: How they didn't say how many bikes they found, So

822
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: let's hear the whole story.

823
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: Like, don't just Principal Smith's wife. He has a wife.

824
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: She's like mean here, I'm gonna do her voice.

825
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: Well, he had a double costume, and he had a

826
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: collection of bildo's, Like that's what missus, Principal Smith said,

827
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: Marian Smith, Mareen Smith, Fareen, you need to face the facts, Maureen,

828
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: this isn't normal. Have you ever had a female orgasm?

829
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: What this episode? I've heard of them, I have heard

830
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: tell those.

831
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 2: Are what's it called? Those are made up? Those are fictional.

832
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: Those are none of my business. Principal Smith, she called him.

833
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: Principal Smith told me that that's just it's a feminist movement.

834
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 2: Were they trying to get you to have some Principal

835
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: Smith told me, Wait, Maureen, do you call your husband

836
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: Principal Smith? Wait, it's what he asked on our wedding night.

837
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: He was in a devil's costume. If the devil tails

838
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: me to do something, she's suddenly from the South. Okay,

839
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 2: that accent has to get weirder. Yes, well, like Maaurreen

840
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: Smith out of her mind.

841
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. They also find a fake Brink security badge

842
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: which they later to which they tied to a fifty

843
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: thousand dollars armed robbery at Sears.

844
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: A year earlier.

845
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: So he was using his fake fucking costume and his

846
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: fucking security badge and guns and fucking holding up Sears

847
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 1: for fifty rand Like why does Seers have that much money?

848
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 2: There? The popcorn's amazing, Okay, but also maybe he's like

849
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: maybe that's why he needed to cool off in his

850
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: office with no pants on. He was like committing major

851
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: heists like the one Rushing happened. Yeah one time. Yes,

852
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 2: I'm so hot, Meryly can you just fix this on

853
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 2: your own? I'm all right, I just ran from the bank,

854
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: all right.

855
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: So he's arrested, and among his defense witnesses at his

856
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: trial in nineteen seventy nine, three months before Susan's body

857
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 1: is found, is our friend Bill. Oh mister uh elbow patches. Yeah,

858
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: he gives Principal Smith an alibi. And even back then, Susan,

859
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: who's still alive at the time three months ti left

860
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: live to live, she doubted Bill's alibi too. She thought

861
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: he was making it up.

862
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 2: Oh.

863
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: But Principal Smith either way is found guilty and given

864
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: five years. But okay, he's free on bail while he's

865
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: waiting sentencing.

866
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: His date in court, which he was late to.

867
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: Was June twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine, which, may I

868
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: fucking remind you, is the.

869
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: Date that Susan's body was found. And he was late

870
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: that morning to court because he was calling and saying,

871
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: a sick lady is in a car.

872
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: Well, oh, I don't know, but he say go ahead.

873
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: Susan was found early that morning, at like five am, in.

874
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 2: The trunk of the car.

875
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: Oh oh, but her kids disappeared right, and the court's

876
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: eight he was late to was about fifteen minutes from

877
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: the hotel where her park were the parking lot were

878
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: her body was found, and the police at that moment

879
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: during his arraignment are removing Susan's body from the car.

880
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: Okay, so patches is in. Patches is on like in

881
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: Connecticut or something? Right, he said he was. He had

882
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: an l being like far away. Yeah, so he got

883
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: this guy to do it. All right, let's keep going.

884
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have well, yes, this will be discussed, This

885
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: will be discussed.

886
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: Oh well, oh, we're going to talk about this. Oh,

887
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: this is gonna happen. I don't know why I have

888
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: to keep on guessing. No, I love it. This is

889
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: it's the best. It's fun. It makes me like happy.

890
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: So guess what else is in the back of the hatchback.

891
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: I'll tell you.

892
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: Under Susan's body there's a a sex toy and be

893
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: also a plastic calm with the name of Principal Smith's

894
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: Army Reserve.

895
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: No, which I'm guessing you're not.

896
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: Fucking gross old men like that like Grandpa's put their

897
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: fucking gross, greasy combs in the front of their fucking

898
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: shush shirt pocket like button down with short sleeved shirt.

899
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 2: Pockets, so they took off when they were in their offices.

900
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you know, he bent down into the trunk

901
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: and it probably fell out of that top shirt pocket and.

902
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: Then he put her you know what I mean, totally

903
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 2: the little but it was a comb that he had

904
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 2: his own name, Principal Smith put on. No it. I

905
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 2: think it was the Army Reserve unit that he was in.

906
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 2: Oh oh, just that. Yeah, it didn't say Principal Smith's

907
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: Army Reserve. I took you totally.

908
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,280
Speaker 1: Literally, Like they probably got it at like a fucking

909
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: legioneer's hall party, got it, you know, they passed them.

910
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: Out, got it. It was just the one he belonged to.

911
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, like his body wasn't give him everyone who what

912
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 1: if his first name was principal, that would be great, mister,

913
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: mister principal, it's Principal Paul Smith.

914
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 2: Mister Principal Paul's. Then later a cute little green.

915
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: Pin that was a souvenir from a class trip to

916
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Museum of Art that Karen. Eleven year old

917
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: Karen wore the day she disappeared. Found under the front

918
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: passenger seat of Principal Smith's car Oh no, Yeah, So,

919
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 1: almost four years after Susan Reinert's death, Bill Bradford Patches

920
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: is arrested in charge with the three murders, even though

921
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: the kids have never been found, charged with three murders,

922
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: and in April sixth, nineteen eighty three, thanks to the

923
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 1: help of another English teacher who was a good friend

924
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: of Bill, who was like a really fucking sweet, wonderful

925
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: guy and got conned by Bill as well. He felt

926
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: betrayed and freaked out and told the FBI, and he

927
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: was a key witness in the trial. What do you

928
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: tell uh, it's mister vladis he told them that. For

929
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: months before Susan's death, Bill was freaking out because he

930
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: thought he was telling everyone he thought Principal Smith was

931
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: going to kill her, but it was really odd and weird,

932
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: and he got a gun to defend her, but never

933
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: told her about his feelings.

934
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: Super weird and convoluted and makes you go, is he

935
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: setting up an alibi? Or is he like he's pre

936
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: throwing people off?

937
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: All right, but why even bring it up in the

938
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: first place, right, because he thinks he's smarter than everyone. Yes,

939
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: so he's getting all these other people involved in it and.

940
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: Sanetic as sociopas who he knows he can like charm

941
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: and manipulate people to kind of believe.

942
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: What right, And then so when she dies he can

943
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: They're all going to be like, well, yeah, Bill knew

944
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: about this.

945
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: Bill knew Principal Smith was going to kill her. This

946
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: is what he feared all So this is what.

947
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: Happened, and Bill is right instead of being like Bill

948
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: is fucking creeping us all out, he has a gun,

949
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: all right, So mister Vilattice was cool. In nineteen eighty six,

950
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: while in prison for his other conviction of the armed robbery,

951
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: Principal Smith is convicted of conspiring with Bill to kill

952
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: the Reinhart family.

953
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: So he's convicted as well. WHOA.

954
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: Both men tried to pin the murders on the other,

955
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 1: claiming they.

956
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:57,919
Speaker 2: Were set up by the other one.

957
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 1: He's Principal Smith is convicted of three counts of murder

958
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: and given the death penalty.

959
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 2: Wow.

960
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: Cut to six years later. This isn't ending it, okay,

961
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: mocking twisting. I never wanted it anyway. In nineteen ninety two,

962
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: good old ninety two, an antique dealer like this is

963
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: so what the fuck?

964
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: I can't even believe this.

965
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: An antique dealer who you know is just like he's

966
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: like American pickers. Does you know, like quote antique dealer

967
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: sounds really nice. And I'll give you eight hundred for

968
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: that propeller.

969
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's worth ten thousand. Well, who's going to die

970
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: of that? Yeah, you're a dumb farmer. You don't know that.

971
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: I hate the guy I'm working with. Have you watched

972
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: that show? It's the fucking they hate each fight. No,

973
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: but you can like feel it. They hate each other. Okay.

974
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,959
Speaker 1: A quote antique dealer is hired to clean out that

975
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: the addict belonging to the state detective, like the main

976
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: state detective that was involved in this case in the

977
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: Rhino murders.

978
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: The attic the addict, did I say, addict? God, why

979
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: do I always do that? Why do I always do that? Sorry? No,

980
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 2: I'm glad you corrected. I just want to make sure

981
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 2: that's what because they're running. It's running. He didn't hire

982
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 2: him to clean out his addict. Some aaronad we already

983
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: have addicts in this story. That's right, but they're just

984
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: they've disappeared right insanely enough. But they're not in the attict.

985
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: But this is the fact that you're even introducing an

986
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 2: antique dealer that is about to clean out an addict.

987
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: Dude is my favorite. Please go too.

988
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: Yes, in the attic, there's a box containing a duplicate

989
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: of the comb found under Susan investigative notes contradicting prosecution

990
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: testimony and if he sive quote lifters, which I think

991
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: is like tape that they containing grains of sand and

992
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: quartz from the bottom of Susan's feet that they never

993
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: turned over to the defense. Why so, I don't understand

994
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: the duplicate colmb But maybe that's just I don't understand

995
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: that part.

996
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: They went and got another one, Maybe to prove that

997
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 2: it wasn't to find it, I don't know.

998
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but whatever reason they had it and then contradictory No,

999
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: it's fine, but the lifters. Okay, Bill said he was

1000
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: at the beach that fucking weekend. Yes, and they found

1001
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 1: sand in courts. They could have tested the fucking sand

1002
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: at that Jersey Shore beach. Why does she have that

1003
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: on her feet?

1004
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1005
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: My feeling is did she leave that night to confront him?

1006
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: He was there with his living girlfriend. He fucking freaks

1007
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: out and kills them. Yeah, I mean she he doesn't expect.

1008
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 2: It, like basically his little separate lives overlap.

1009
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: And she's like, you gotta tell them now, or I'm

1010
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: going to fucking leave you, or I'm gonna tell them.

1011
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 2: Myself, or just I'm going to change that will and

1012
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: all the other people yeah because I made a mistake. Yeah,

1013
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: and you're scum. Yeah. And he freaks out.

1014
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: But the other people at the beach, I have no

1015
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: doubt they would have if they had known, they would

1016
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 1: have said something because it was that guy who testify

1017
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:56,439
Speaker 1: against him.

1018
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 2: His living girlfriend didn't seem like.

1019
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: The kind of she ended up uh testifying against him

1020
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: as well, Like they weren't scumbags who ran on it

1021
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: all right, So Principal Smith's defense attorney says that this

1022
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: could have been This could have placed the murder and

1023
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: in the New Jersey's shore right, which would have helped

1024
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: Principal Smith get off. So, after serving six years on

1025
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: death row, Principal Smith is released oh ninety two, even

1026
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: though we don't know he didn't have anything to do

1027
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,760
Speaker 1: with it. She was chained up and he was into chains.

1028
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: His fucking comb was in the car, or what if

1029
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: Biell put it in there? On purpose, right, he'd placed

1030
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: it in there. Yeah, maybe they had more of them, right,

1031
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: maybe there's a can of those combs because he was

1032
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: saying that Principal Smith's gonna kill her. Hey, look what happens,

1033
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: And maybe the fucking pin was put in Principal Smith's car. Yeah, suck, dude,

1034
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 1: I'm contradicting my whole Well.

1035
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: No, but I mean is if he was telling people

1036
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 2: that many months beforehand, he was probably collecting things to

1037
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: set him up. He could have been collecting things to

1038
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 2: set him up before and that's very realistic. Right.

1039
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: So he's released in ninety two because the evidence prosecutors

1040
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: may have exonerated him, and through the appeals court he

1041
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: the appeals court agreed that there was unethical conduct, but

1042
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: they also said that quote nothing untrustworthy about Smith's There

1043
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: was nothing untrustworthy about Smith's conviction for murder.

1044
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 2: So there was like they were like.

1045
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: We fucking think he did it, but he got une

1046
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: for a trial, and so we have to let him go.

1047
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So they so for some whatever reasons.

1048
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: Whatever evidence they thought he was, they were working together

1049
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: all right, along with the box found the nine to

1050
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: one to one tape of the call about Susan's body

1051
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: was mistakenly destroyed.

1052
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 2: Her body was here's the.

1053
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 1: Fucking second time this has happened in very short time,

1054
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: accidentally cremated. Oh wait yeah, and the autopsy audio tape.

1055
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: Was lost until after the trial. Well that's three things.

1056
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 2: That's too many things. Ye one thing. Maybe they're like, oh,

1057
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: that's a bad creamate a woman. Well, you don't accidentally

1058
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 2: do it, You don't do I don't think so. No,

1059
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: I mean I don't think so. Like there's basic paperwork.

1060
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: You don't just toss a fucking body in the crematorium.

1061
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: No, but you toss a twenty grand toward a person

1062
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: that's running that ooh crematorium and then say look the

1063
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 2: other way while I do what I need to get done.

1064
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot of money or something, yeah,

1065
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 2: like wells, but also just the combination of because also

1066
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 2: then the autopsy where the corners talking and going, now

1067
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: there's a mild abrasions on this and that.

1068
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: Like so there's no way to read. It's like they

1069
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: can't dig her up and give her an autopsy again,

1070
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: they can't check anything like bite marks or anything that

1071
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: would actually indicate.

1072
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 2: Or like DNA.

1073
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: The reinert case becomes the biggest investigation in the history

1074
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,439
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania State Police. In nineteen eighty seven, a mini

1075
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: series based on on the Echoes in the Darkness book

1076
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: comes out, which I could only find ten minutes of online.

1077
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 2: Karen, you would fucking lose your mind if you saw this.

1078
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 2: Who was in it? All right? I wrote every single person.

1079
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 2: Maybe you would ask that, Oh my god, it's episode

1080
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 2: seventy five. We've finally gotten sync. Yes, it only took

1081
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: us seventy four, all right.

1082
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: Susan is played by Stockard Channing. Oh, yeah, you love that.

1083
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: Bill Old Patcha's Bill is paid played by Peter Coyote.

1084
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 2: Yes, Peter Coyote. I don't know him. He's yes, you do.

1085
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 2: He's the narrator for the oscars. Oh, coming up next.

1086
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 2: He's like uh, and he's like a very he's I

1087
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 2: think he's from theater mostly, but you've seen things. He's

1088
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 2: super low key. He looks like Rayvermano. Is that okay?

1089
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 2: He's like Ray Vermono's artie brother.

1090
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: Because I watched the ten minutes which were so good,

1091
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: and like, there are so many other convoluted points to

1092
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: this whole story that like I couldn't even get to

1093
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,359
Speaker 1: that weren't really part of it. But I think they're

1094
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: in the ministers, so bomb I can't find it. You know,

1095
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: someone listening has it on cassette and their mom recorded

1096
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: it when it came out with the commercials.

1097
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: We need you to fucking upload it. Do you imagine

1098
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: what the commercials? Oh? Sorry, what year he came out?

1099
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: In eighty seven? The commercials would make me barf. I

1100
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: would be so happy. It would be well, it would

1101
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: be new Coke, Yeah, it would.

1102
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: Be oh la looks hair gel.

1103
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: Yes, it would be whatever market that the mom recorded

1104
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: it in. The fucking panic news coming up next after

1105
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: this mini series.

1106
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: Yes, your children's backs are fucked. That's right, give up

1107
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 2: your children? Yes, okay, okay.

1108
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: Oh and then Principal Smith has paid, played by Robert Loggia.

1109
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: Robert Loggia Logia, Yes, because he you know him. I

1110
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: won't be able to think of anything offhand. He is

1111
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 2: the guy. He's short, he has had white hair for

1112
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: most of his career, and he got the dogs like this.

1113
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 2: He's got a big, kind of a big nose. He

1114
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 2: has an Italian field. Because he's not in the ten minutes,

1115
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 2: He's not in that one at all. He's the cop. No,

1116
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,280
Speaker 2: he's the fucking principle. He's principal. Yeah, that's so good.

1117
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 2: Oh my god, we have to get our hands on this.

1118
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 2: You know where we can go where we have the

1119
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,919
Speaker 2: fucking Museum of Television. Ooh, where's that?

1120
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 1: It's it's in Beverly Hills. You go there, you put

1121
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 1: you fill out a card, you say, this is what.

1122
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 2: I want to watch. They take it in. They have

1123
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: a library of like almost everything that's ever Yeah. Yeah,

1124
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: it's right in Beverly Hills.

1125
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: What about the like one of the last cool movie

1126
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: rental places.

1127
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 2: It's next to the New Art and Santa Monica on

1128
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 2: Santa Monica Boulevards Cinemania or something. Josh Fatom worked there

1129
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 2: for a long time because he loved it. Yes, and

1130
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 2: I'm talking about yes Cinophile Cinemia. No, No, Cinophile is

1131
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 2: the Cynia Family. I don't remember. Yeah, we'll go there

1132
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 2: Field Trip. Yeah, class they won't have it though, you

1133
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 2: have driving TV is okay? I think it's too like obscure.

1134
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: Oh we're gonna find this dude. Yeah all right. Bill

1135
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 2: dies in prison in nineteen ninety eight. Principal Smith. No

1136
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 2: Bill fucking Patches. Bill Patches dies in ninety eight.

1137
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: Okay, Principal Smith dies a free man. Both maintain their

1138
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: innocence the entire their entire lives. They didn't even give

1139
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 1: us the fucking like deathbed confession. All right, but you're

1140
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: ready for the I saved the creepiest for the last

1141
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: part because it's the creepiest thing I've ever heard in

1142
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: my fucking life. Okay, and there's a photograph of it online.

1143
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: Oh oh, all right, So, uh, Bill Patches, the fucking

1144
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: creepy lover, dies his cells being cleaned out, and a

1145
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: photograph is found hidden in his belongings.

1146
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 2: The photograph depicts a.

1147
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: Stone marker looks like a like a small Gothic kind

1148
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: of angel stone, kind of marker resembles a hooded figure,

1149
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 1: worn away kind of The stone is surrounded by fallen

1150
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: leaves with woods in the background, so it's the middle

1151
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: of some random woods. And that photo alone, it was, uh,

1152
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: it was they found. The cops were like it was

1153
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: processed before, in like eighty six, before he went to prison.

1154
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 2: And some people think it's.

1155
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: A photograph of the location of Little Carrol and Michael's graves,

1156
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: but investigators sent it out and they've been unable to

1157
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: locate the marker.

1158
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: As of yet, so it's like hidden in a forest somewhere.

1159
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: And he had a fucking photograph of it the entire

1160
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: time he was in prison.

1161
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: So he fucking did it. He did it, and he

1162
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 2: knows where the fucking bodies are. And that's his Uh,

1163
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: what's the thing. We forgot this once before and people

1164
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 2: were yelling at us, that's his souvenir, his you know,

1165
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 2: his serial killer. So yeah, I think it's a souvenir

1166
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 2: whatever or the thing that they keep.

1167
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 1: Then I was thinking, like how creepy would it have

1168
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: been if like they'd killed them together and and Principal

1169
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: Smith had buried the body and he gave it to

1170
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: Bill and like a warning, like if you fucking tell

1171
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: anyon happened, Like everyone will know about the dead kids.

1172
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: Here's a photograph of where they are buried because of you.

1173
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: Or maybe Bill didn't want them to die, to die.

1174
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 2: Maybe, but don't you think like the way those kinds

1175
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: of killers do it. They keep the keepsakes meant about yeah, memento,

1176
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 2: it's about they love that thing. They it's a positive thing. Yeah,

1177
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 2: if it was a threat, it wouldn't be as good

1178
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 2: like sneak he had to sneak it into prison.

1179
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: It's probably in one of his books, in his bookshelf

1180
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: or something like that.

1181
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: Do you think that two people did it. I think

1182
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: that only one of these creepy men did it. I

1183
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: think it sounds like they knew they were in on

1184
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: something together. Yeah, they so say it was some weird

1185
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 2: sex ring, or they were in a lot of money

1186
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 2: to be split out between them. Who had the money.

1187
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: Well, Bill was going to get all seven hundred over

1188
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: seven hundred thousand dollars in life insurance money.

1189
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 2: Okay, right, so all right, So say they were in

1190
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 2: a sex ring something where they both had information on

1191
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 2: each other. Then it's like Patches is like, I'll get

1192
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 2: I'll give you fifty grand if you I have to

1193
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: set this thing. And this is like it's almost like

1194
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 2: a stranger's on a train. You. If you take care

1195
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 2: of these bodies, I can be out of town. There

1196
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 2: will be no connection. One of those kind of but

1197
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 2: it's a bad plan because it's like, yeah, we'll work

1198
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 2: at the same school.

1199
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: I think that Bill, I mean sorry, I think that

1200
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: Principal Smith's almost seems too obvious because he's a fucking

1201
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: his children, his children disappear too, his heroinautic daughter, and

1202
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,439
Speaker 1: he's robbing banks and shit. It's almost like, why would

1203
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: you also do these other things? Or is it because

1204
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: you think you can get away with that shit, which

1205
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 1: you almost did.

1206
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 2: Right, I mean the robbing the bank thing is insanity

1207
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: because usually if you're a bank robber, you're not gonna

1208
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 2: then have a double life as a high school principle.

1209
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: It's like, that's so fascinating. And the fact that he

1210
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 2: owns all kinds of weird sex stuff. Yeah, I mean

1211
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 2: that is fucking insane. Yeah.

1212
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 1: So that's the Mainline murders aka the Ryan Aart murders.

1213
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 2: And it was sorry that was Pennsylvania. Yeah, wow, I know,

1214
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 2: is that fun? How have we never heard of it?

1215
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 2: I've never heard. I feel like when you said the

1216
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 2: thing about the Little Girl's Museum pin being under the thing,

1217
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 2: that kind of made me get a little something. Dang,

1218
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 2: but I would have remembered all that other crazy.

1219
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: St Yeah, I've never heard of so many weird fucking

1220
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: things and one one simple murder about insurance money, right,

1221
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: never heard so many crazy things going on? Well?

1222
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: Also, if so she leaves her house with her kids

1223
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: and gets into the car.

1224
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: Sounds like it was in a hurry in the hailstorm.

1225
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: But I only saw that in like one thing.

1226
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 2: Okay, because also it was late at night. And also

1227
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 2: if there's a hailstorm, that means he went to the

1228
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: beach during hale, like during the winter he went to

1229
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: New Jersey, which I think. I think the beach I

1230
01:01:58,960 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 2: like looked it up.

1231
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm in a map was like four hours away. But

1232
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I know, why did he pick that? Yeah,

1233
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: if it's wintertime, why don't you go skiing?

1234
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 2: Totally? What are you doing?

1235
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: Like did he plan the trip? I want to know,

1236
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: Like did they go there often? Did they ever do

1237
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: that before?

1238
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like clearly there's this thing of like.

1239
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: Your spouse or your loved one gets killed and you

1240
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: happen to be out of town on a vacation. It's

1241
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: like you can't have a convenient alibi and expect that

1242
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: that to be your only Yeah, the only thing they

1243
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 1: look in solid Yeah, well, and also because you're the

1244
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: alibi is about.

1245
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 2: Killing your secret lover while you're on vacation with your

1246
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 2: other secret lover, and then there's other secret lovers like

1247
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 2: all that there's so much going on without talking about

1248
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 2: Principal Smith in his underwear. If we don't even get.

1249
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 1: Into that list so much, how about we'll have a

1250
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: whole episode that the story we do together is Principal

1251
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: Smith is an underwear and it's underwear.

1252
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 2: But I'm telling you that final moment of the picture

1253
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 2: find them finding the picture. Okay, just put in mainline

1254
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 2: murders and you'll see it. How can some how can

1255
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 2: somebody on Reddit haven't found out where that is yet?

1256
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: No shit? I mean you would just think that people

1257
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania would just be combing the fucking on.

1258
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: The way from Pennsylvania to New Jersey where the beach place.

1259
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, like somewhere along that route. Fuck.

1260
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: So if someone go find it and like, then we'll

1261
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: fucking you guys. If murderinos solve this, I don't even

1262
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: mean us, but if like some murderinos solve this and

1263
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: find the bodies, it'll be go out there, go forth

1264
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: and dig. And I mean this was in nineteen eighty

1265
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: six though, so it's probably not there anymore.

1266
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 2: But if it's a stone marker and also so creepy

1267
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 2: a c figure, oh ye. Also if you find the

1268
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 2: stone mark if you find any Stocker Channing made for

1269
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 2: TV movie about murder, whether it's this one or another,

1270
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 2: I'm interested in watching it.

1271
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 1: Email my favorite murder at gmail dot com putting that

1272
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: putt in the title Stocker Channing in the subject line

1273
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: Stocker Channing.

1274
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 2: Or found the dead children.

1275
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: Yes, it's just so sad that she put them, that

1276
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: she made these decisions out of her naivete And yeah,

1277
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: she's a victim obviously, but like these kids had no

1278
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: choice any of it.

1279
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 2: If she was getting the full sociopath psychopath hypnosis deal

1280
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 2: where it's like, you know, like Ricky Ticky Tavy when

1281
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 2: that snake goes up and you can't stop staring at

1282
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: the eyes. It's that thing where she walked away from

1283
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 2: a whole life to be with this man who was

1284
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 2: a complete criminal and creepo and was turning it over entirely.

1285
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 2: I mean, there's That's what I would like to know

1286
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 2: about and see up close because because there's a story

1287
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: there and she probably was a smart woman. Yeah, I

1288
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 2: don't know.

1289
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: I mean one thing that's like one little detail and

1290
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 1: say that really made me sad was that when he.

1291
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 2: When he went to court.

1292
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: For the twenty five thousand dollars from stealing it from her.

1293
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: Susan's ex husband like went to fight against him.

1294
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 2: So even after they divorced, he was like, fuck this guy.

1295
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: Yes, you know she cheated on me, but this guy

1296
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: is a fucking creep and a piece of shit.

1297
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, like not even trying to get the money himself.

1298
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 2: He's just like she's a con man that like hurt

1299
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 2: the woman I loved she was he was still fighting

1300
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 2: for her, and it just made me so sad that

1301
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 2: it's the whole thing is incredibly sad. Also, just remember

1302
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 2: in the seventies, like women, it's not the parenting situation

1303
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 2: was so different in that way where it was like

1304
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 2: having people had affairs or you know, made these kind

1305
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: of it was the me generation too, where it was

1306
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna you know, I started out a housewife

1307
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 2: in the sixties and that was all fine, I have

1308
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 2: a chance to Yeah, why can't I have a life

1309
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 2: and that, And I'm sure he played on that and

1310
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 2: it was I'm sure she was trying to balance all

1311
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 2: of that. I don't I hope I don't sound like

1312
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 2: I'm victim laming. It's just no, nun.

1313
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: I just don't want to forget these too sweet and

1314
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: if you see if you, if you google it, you'll

1315
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: see their photos and they're just like these sweet baby

1316
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: angels who just like who knows where they went. They

1317
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: fucking disappeared and they never even got it, you know,

1318
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: funeral from the grandparents and their dad.

1319
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 2: It's just it's so sad. It's horrible. Yeah. So yeah,

1320
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: mainline murders. Wow yeah, wow, well done. Thank you. That

1321
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 2: was crazy, Thank you.

1322
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: I know, right, Okay, we're back Georgia. Are there any

1323
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: updates for this case, yes, there are updates. And actually

1324
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: from our conversation we were just having about people writing

1325
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: in their side of the story. When I was researching this,

1326
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: I look for our emails and there are so much

1327
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: Murderinos who were connected to this story and that they

1328
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: lived there at the time, or their parents went to

1329
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: high school with this and that, and so it was

1330
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,080
Speaker 1: really interesting. We got an email from a Murderino named

1331
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 1: Elise A. Miller who was there at the time and

1332
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: wrote a book called Tracing the Bones. It's a novel

1333
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: and she based it off of this case. So I

1334
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: think that was really interesting. And as for the case,

1335
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: the murder of Susan Reinert and the disappearance of her children.

1336
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: Karen and Michael remain unsolved. Sadly, State police at Harrisburg

1337
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: continue to offer a five thousand dollars reward for information

1338
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 1: to find the bodies of Karen and Michael. And Netflix

1339
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,439
Speaker 1: is in early development with Andrew Sadroski, who wrote man

1340
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: Hunt about the Unibomber, and Aggregate Films, which is Jason

1341
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: Bateman's production company, for a limited series inspired by the

1342
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: Mainline murders. And when I was re reading about this,

1343
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: it's such a fucking wild case, I mean, yeah, and heartbreaking.

1344
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: And then I also mentioned being unable to find the

1345
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 1: Stockard Channing made for TI TV movie called Echoes in

1346
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: the Darkness about this case, and it's now available on.

1347
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 2: Two B so check that out. Wow.

1348
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: Okay, so now let's get into Karen's story about Spider Savage.

1349
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 2: Mine's a little more well, Mine's mine's one that you've seen.

1350
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 2: Now that I'm working again, I'm doing those ones where

1351
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 2: I'm like, what do I know? Really well, because I've

1352
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 2: seen it on every true crime show. Everyone loves those.

1353
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: It's all fun of like recognize when to be like, yes,

1354
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: tell me about it.

1355
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 2: So this is one everyone knows which is the murder

1356
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 2: of Spider Savage. I'm sorry, what the murder of Spider Savage?

1357
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 2: He's a famous downhill skier. Dude, I don't know this.

1358
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 2: You are you serious? So this is this is uh taken.

1359
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: There's a power, Privilege, Privilege and Justice hosted by Dominic Dunn.

1360
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:01,759
Speaker 2: One of the greatest true crime scene ever because Dominic Dunn,

1361
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 2: the author, sits there staring into camera doing interstitial narration

1362
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 2: and he looks like the most livid individual of all times.

1363
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 2: It's almost like he's blaming you, telling you what you

1364
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 2: did wrong. Yes, he's he's angry at the justicism, he's

1365
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 2: angry at injustice in general, and he's just disgusted. But

1366
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 2: at the same time, he loves like Beverly Hills, like

1367
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 2: he's a bit of a status guy, or he's a

1368
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 2: bit of a because he was a famous author, right,

1369
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 2: so he has a little bit of like I was

1370
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 2: at that party and I saw like, yeah, he is

1371
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,919
Speaker 2: a first hand thing and a lot of these stories,

1372
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 2: but it's not frivolous. He's very serious. And he's the

1373
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 2: one whose daughter was murdered by her ex boyfriend, right,

1374
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 2: which I did we do that? Yeaminique done? Yes, we

1375
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,599
Speaker 2: did her murder. Yes, yeah, so basically he has he

1376
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 2: was like he was played by I think, oh it

1377
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 2: was so good Jeremy Nathan Lane played him in the

1378
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 2: O J. Ryan Murphy OJO so brilliantly because he was

1379
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 2: there for the whole ojay. Yeah, he's and I think

1380
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 2: he's mostly a vanity fairer off right. Yeah, I'm not sure,

1381
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 2: but he's very famous, like true crime writer and writer

1382
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 2: that asked motherfucker. So if you I think there's I

1383
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 2: mean I was able to watch Power Privilege in Justice

1384
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 2: on YouTube, although everyone had the same incredibly deep voice,

1385
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 2: so I think that's the way they got away with

1386
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 2: Like the last one I tried to watch where the

1387
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 2: screen was diagonal and it was you know, it was

1388
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,679
Speaker 2: slightly altered so that you could watch it. This one,

1389
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 2: it was like they basically slightly altered everyone's voice, so

1390
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 2: it sounded like everyone was in the witness Protection program,

1391
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 2: but they weren't being they weren't in the dark.

1392
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, so anyway, got it if you can so far,

1393
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: I don't remember this one, so let's fucking have that.

1394
01:10:55,000 --> 01:11:00,719
Speaker 2: And I'm excited that. Okay, all right, So roughly around

1395
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 2: the same time, A year ago. Sunday, March twenty first,

1396
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, Vladimir Peter Spider Savage, a thirty one

1397
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 2: year old champion alpine ski racer, returned home from a

1398
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 2: training session to Starwood, a gated community in the ritzy

1399
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: resort town of Aspen, Colorado. Oh, I also got some

1400
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 2: of this information from a website called called shit Shit.

1401
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 2: That's a great I didn't write him down. It was

1402
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 2: dot shit shit dot com, dot don't go, please don't.

1403
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 2: We can't be responsible. Noah's called snow blitzed or snow

1404
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 2: brained or so I'll figure it out and tell you guys.

1405
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 2: But it was it's basically like a skiers website. Okay, okay, okay.

1406
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 2: So he comes back to his home in a gated

1407
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 2: community called Starwood in Aspen. So it's like Aspen, Colorado,

1408
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 2: as most people know, is an incredibly rich white ski resort,

1409
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 2: kind of like one percenter town, and this guy was

1410
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 2: kind of the star of that town. So he within

1411
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 2: this rich, ritzy place, lived in a gated community because

1412
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm scared of all you not rich people.

1413
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 2: I need a gate. I'm scared of you people that

1414
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 2: only make six hundred thousand dollars a year. So yeah,

1415
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 2: that's like the people who live they work in Beverly Hills,

1416
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 2: but they live in bel Air, right, Oh, must be nice. Okay,

1417
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 2: So he was he was stopping home at his home

1418
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 2: in Starwood to change because he had been skiing and

1419
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 2: he'd gone to a party. He was going to go

1420
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 2: home and take a shower because he was later on

1421
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 2: he planned to meet his skiing coach for dinner. The

1422
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,719
Speaker 2: chief police, who is in this episode of Power, Privilege,

1423
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 2: and Justice, is talking about how he was in his

1424
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 2: police cruiser. He hears a call come out over the

1425
01:12:55,920 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 2: radio that there's been a shooting at Starwood, so he knows,

1426
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 2: you know, he immediately races over because he's like, these.

1427
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 1: People pay more money to the police department. No George

1428
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:09,680
Speaker 1: out there quick, God damn it. Well, but it is

1429
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:12,679
Speaker 1: kind of that way. This is there, that's kind of tower.

1430
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:15,520
Speaker 1: If something happens, nothing happens.

1431
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 2: Bad there probably exactly. So if anything has someone shoots

1432
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 2: a gun straight up into the air, they're like, we

1433
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 2: got we gotta process this immediately. And it is a

1434
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 2: little bit of like shadows of John Benet in that

1435
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 2: way where the police don't have. It's like, of course,

1436
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 2: they obviously do technically have this jurisdiction, but rich people

1437
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 2: kind of do what they want. They lawyer up, they

1438
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 2: fly places on their private jets and that, like the

1439
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 2: police are just have to kind of do their best

1440
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 2: public servants. Yeah, these people who make eight hundred thousand dollars.

1441
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, there really a check is paid with the taxes

1442
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 1: that those people pay. Yeah, okay, So when they arrive there,

1443
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 1: they go to they find that they're arriving at the

1444
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 1: home of Spider Savage, who lives there with his living

1445
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 1: girlfriend of four years, singer actress Claudine Lane. I have

1446
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: never heard of these people, are you, sirih never heard

1447
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: of this one.

1448
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 2: I've definitely seen this forensic Files several times, and I've

1449
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 2: seen this power, privilege and justice at least once. I

1450
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,799
Speaker 2: miss this one. It's a bit of a class I'm excited.

1451
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: So they find Cloutding slumped in the hallway crying, oh no,

1452
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 2: and then they walk back to the bathroom off the

1453
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 2: master bedroom and they find Spider who's been shot in

1454
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:34,679
Speaker 2: the abdomen and bleeding out on the bathroom floor. Shot

1455
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 2: once already lost a ton of blood and Finally the

1456
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 2: ambulance arrives. Clutting begs the police to let her ride

1457
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 2: along in the ambulance with him, and they let her,

1458
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 2: which I think these days, you know, this is the

1459
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 2: late seventies, these days would be like no, no, no,

1460
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 2: you're the only person on this less it's a kid,

1461
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 2: probably right, But even then, if you're the only person

1462
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 2: on the scene, it's like, oh, you got to answer

1463
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 2: some questions. Don't just get to do whatever you want. Yeah.

1464
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:05,799
Speaker 2: So they find the gun, which is an antique luger,

1465
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 2: in the bathroom, but before they get a chance to

1466
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 2: thoroughly examine the house, they get a call from the

1467
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 2: hospital reporting that Spider Savage has died on the way

1468
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 2: to the hospital, so they the district attorney goes to

1469
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: the hospital, finds Clouding and he starts to question her

1470
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 2: about what happened at the house that night.

1471
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,640
Speaker 1: Can I just say, it's a really interesting thing, and

1472
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 1: it's almost smart when people who kill someone they don't

1473
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: die till they're in the hospital, because then they have

1474
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: to trample the scene, They have to put their hands

1475
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: all over this person's dying body to try to resuscitate them.

1476
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 2: They get them.

1477
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,479
Speaker 1: Out of there, immediately, so they don't see how they fall,

1478
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,640
Speaker 1: They don't see details that they would see if the

1479
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 1: person was already dead when they went into that say, right,

1480
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, they're still alive. Yeah, it's

1481
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 1: like almost, yeah.

1482
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 2: It's almost horribly better. It's it's yeah, as opposed to

1483
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 2: freeze this tape it. Everybody stay away, we have time

1484
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 2: to don't to not touch anything. Okay, right, go exactly Okay.

1485
01:16:15,240 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 2: So the district attorney finds Clutting and he questions her,

1486
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 2: and she is anxious to explain that Spider was going

1487
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 2: out of town and so he was actually showing her

1488
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 2: how to use the gun so that she would be

1489
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 2: safe while he was gone. Oh sure, while he was

1490
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 2: showing her how to use the gun, it went off

1491
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 2: immed It could happen, It could happen. It was an

1492
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 2: it was an old antique gun. I have to say that.

1493
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:41,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to know how to get how a

1494
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: gun works if I was going to be alone.

1495
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 2: Sure. Well, the police are immediately suspicious because these people

1496
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 2: live in a gated community in Aston, Colorado. So I

1497
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 2: bet they have dogs. Yes, there's dogs, sens of dogs,

1498
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 2: there's gates. It's the whole community. Everyone in the whole

1499
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 2: city makes a shit ton of money or is like

1500
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 2: a Ski Bombs who makes slightly less amount of money,

1501
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 2: So they're like, not sure. Then the autopsy comes back

1502
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 2: and shows that Spider Savage was bending over and had

1503
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 2: his back turned to the doorway when he was shocked.

1504
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 2: How do they know that, they're so smart? It was

1505
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 2: a downward The bullet went in in downward fashion because

1506
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 2: it was one shot in the abdomen, but it got

1507
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 2: his It's a part of his heart. I believe they

1508
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 2: already written down. But it basically like went down through

1509
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 2: his heart. So he's bending over forward, his butt toward her, right,

1510
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 2: I believe. Okay, okay, So the police have no choice

1511
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 2: but to say that's premeditated and something incredibly suspicious is

1512
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,520
Speaker 2: going on. So Clogging is arrested. She's charged with homicide

1513
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:02,879
Speaker 2: and criminal negligence, and she immediately hires prominent Aspen attorney

1514
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 2: Ron Austin, who gets her released on bond, which the

1515
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 2: cops said they knew she was going to get released.

1516
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 2: That's just part of it, but they were like, because

1517
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 2: he was saying, you can't arrest her. This is her boyfriend.

1518
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:17,280
Speaker 2: She's really upset and they're like nowhere arresting her even

1519
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 2: if you're going to take her out of here. So

1520
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 2: it turns out she was married to the singer Andy Williams,

1521
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,760
Speaker 2: who you may know. He was famous in the sixties.

1522
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 2: He's the one that sang Moon River. He was like

1523
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,439
Speaker 2: a crooner in the fifties and sixties, and he was

1524
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 2: up there with like Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin and

1525
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 2: all those guys.

1526
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 1: He was just a little more He wasn't a rat

1527
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:41,840
Speaker 1: pack guy. He was a little more whitebread. He was

1528
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 1: like a little more all American. And he had a.

1529
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 2: TV show that for the Andy Williams Christmas Special. For

1530
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 2: years was the number one rated television show of all

1531
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,680
Speaker 2: time until one of the Super Bowls knocked it out

1532
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 2: of its place.

1533
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:05,640
Speaker 1: Can we watch those in secessions after we watch the

1534
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,719
Speaker 1: lifetime of Stocker Channing movies, then.

1535
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 2: We go into the Andy Williams specials. We can because

1536
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 2: his wife, Claudine Langey is on them with him. Wait, okay,

1537
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:21,759
Speaker 2: holy shit, yes, that's her first husband. So we're watching

1538
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 2: the shit out of us. So when she's released from

1539
01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 2: the from the police department on bond, they call up

1540
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:34,679
Speaker 2: the Aspen airport and have them reopen because it's late

1541
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 2: at night, so that Andy Williams can fly in to

1542
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: Aspen to go and meet her and get her or like,

1543
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 2: you know, go meet up with me. Yeah. So that's

1544
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about, where it's like now we're in

1545
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:48,639
Speaker 2: rich people territory, where like people are kind of doing

1546
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 2: what they want.

1547
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 1: Fucking airport open, give that a try right now. Yeah, anyone,

1548
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:53,160
Speaker 1: see what you can do.

1549
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:55,800
Speaker 2: Call over the Bourbank Airport right now and see if

1550
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:57,080
Speaker 2: you can find your keys.

1551
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 1: Okay, steep the fucking phone answer you can stop one,

1552
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: do as much as you can and then let us.

1553
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 2: Know so you can sell us. Yeah. So the police

1554
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:15,679
Speaker 2: go back to the house and they get a warrant

1555
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 2: and they start to search the house. And they immediately

1556
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:20,760
Speaker 2: and they had some of the cops had seen it

1557
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 2: when they were originally on the scene. Her diary is

1558
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 2: sitting on top of the dresser and it's a big,

1559
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 2: like ledger sized diary, and so one of the cops,

1560
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 2: so the cops are taking pictures of the whole scene

1561
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 2: and processing the scene. One of the cops takes the

1562
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 2: diary off the top of the of the dresser and

1563
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:39,920
Speaker 2: is looking through it of like, is this what I

1564
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 2: think it is? Sees that it is, realizes it's her

1565
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:44,800
Speaker 2: writing her most private thoughts.

1566
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: Why the fuck?

1567
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 2: Why does anyone have a diary? For real? Sap it,

1568
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 2: You stupid idiot, Go to a therapist. If you're going

1569
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 2: to have a diary, why would it ever ever ever

1570
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 2: be out anywhere now and have it be a ledger?

1571
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 2: You think you're that fucking important, right, like claudying, Well,

1572
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 2: this is clauding more. I don't think she did it

1573
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:07,680
Speaker 2: because she sounds really naive. Okay, So while they're processing

1574
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 2: and taking photographs of the crime scene and of the bedroom,

1575
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 2: the photographer takes a picture of the dresser with no

1576
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 2: diary on top of it because the cop had picked

1577
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 2: it up and was looking through it. Then the cop

1578
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 2: put it back, and then more pictures were taken with

1579
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 2: the dietary. Okay, yeah, okay, why did I put my

1580
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,160
Speaker 2: paper down? Because you're telling me the best story. I

1581
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 2: had to use my hands to show you what a

1582
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:39,160
Speaker 2: book looks like. That was a ledger. I could tell

1583
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 2: by the way your hands were right. Oh, it was nice.

1584
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 2: It was big. Oh see that string that goes down

1585
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 2: the middle, So that's that'll come back later. And also

1586
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 2: there was a couple other things. Okay, so about Claudying,

1587
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 2: so we'll learn we'll learn about her a little bit.

1588
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 2: Claudine Lange was born in Paris. She moved to Las

1589
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 2: Vegas when she was eighteen. She loan be a star.

1590
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 2: Oh jesus, she's a singer. She's gorgeous. So she looks

1591
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 2: like she has a bit of an Amanda Pete look

1592
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 2: to her, like strong feature, yes, but like Claire Nostril,

1593
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 2: very sexy, but also very soft spoken and had kind

1594
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,719
Speaker 2: of like a soft spoken singing voice. And the woman

1595
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 2: who there was somebody that worked with her at the

1596
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 2: Falle Bouger at the Tropicana in Vegas, which was like

1597
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 2: the big burlesque show in Las Vegas at the time.

1598
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:31,879
Speaker 1: And this is before Las Vegas was like cheap and gross.

1599
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:33,840
Speaker 1: It was like this classiest fuck.

1600
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 2: This was the late fifties or sixty jesus, so it

1601
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 2: was like the best part of Las Vegas or I mean,

1602
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 2: like yeah, whatever, the classiest time. This is when people

1603
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:49,760
Speaker 2: were like tuxedos, sixtinos and stuff. And she became a

1604
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:52,599
Speaker 2: star very quickly because she was like the French girl

1605
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 2: who got the right. Everyone else is like Dan or

1606
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,360
Speaker 2: nan or twisting it around.

1607
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 1: Someone make a fucking uh what's it called? A remix

1608
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: of what Karen just did. You don't have to, don't

1609
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: worry about it.

1610
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 2: Okay. So one night Claudine is driving home from her

1611
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:16,599
Speaker 2: her job at the burlesque show. Her car breaks down

1612
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 2: and then a good Smaritan pulls over to help her out.

1613
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 2: It's Andy Williams. Oh, so she's the lucky lady, so hot.

1614
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:29,559
Speaker 2: So they're married on Christmas Day of nineteen sixty one,

1615
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 2: and he is She's thirty one at the time and

1616
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:37,759
Speaker 2: she's eighteen. He started on Choose eighteen. Yeah, damn, damn.

1617
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 2: This was Vegas in the early sixties. Yeah. The next year,

1618
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 2: Andy Williams released Moon River, which is like legendary. Yeah,

1619
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 2: all the money and he was one of the most

1620
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 2: famous singers at the time. They got a mansion in Malibu,

1621
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:57,240
Speaker 2: and then in nineteen sixty three, Andy Williams got his

1622
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 2: own TV show and Claudine had a baby the same

1623
01:24:01,080 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 2: year and another baby the next year, but she still

1624
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 2: wanted to be a performer, so she would appear on

1625
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 2: the Andy Williams Show with him as his wife. Way

1626
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:10,040
Speaker 2: to watch these. Yeah.

1627
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:13,760
Speaker 1: I bet she had so many female orgasms it was ridiculous.

1628
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 2: Well, because she's French and she was raised to be

1629
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 2: in charge of her own orgasm.

1630
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 1: Yes, and to eat a lot of vegetables. Sure, okay,

1631
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: I keep bringing that up.

1632
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:24,719
Speaker 2: It's so gross. Go on, No, sorry, cook, It's not gross.

1633
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:27,720
Speaker 2: That's the whole point of our podcast. You're right, proud,

1634
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 2: proud Andy Williams Christmas Show. Oh, I told you that already.

1635
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:36,040
Speaker 2: He's basically this guy is like everybody's favorite thing to

1636
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:38,960
Speaker 2: have on TV because it's easy to have on TV.

1637
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 2: Like when you Andy Williams had like a Dean Martin quality,

1638
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,800
Speaker 2: but not racy, not drunk drunkie. He was more like

1639
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 2: the guy from church.

1640
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 1: It wasn't like so sare what's the word swarthy? Those

1641
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: were all words yep, but he is not that.

1642
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 2: No, he's white bread, dominic down at this part of

1643
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 2: the privileged power.

1644
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: And justice goes. I used to see them at parties

1645
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills and thought they were beautiful.

1646
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 2: So they were kind of like an early sixties Hollywood

1647
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,759
Speaker 2: power Yeah. I love it. They have a third child

1648
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine, and then later that year they

1649
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 2: shock all of Hollywood by announcing that they're getting divorced,

1650
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,720
Speaker 2: because on the Andy Williams Show it was all very

1651
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 2: family and you know, it was like the Osmond's is

1652
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 2: that third child?

1653
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: Man?

1654
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 2: I am that one? You always read child? Were you

1655
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,639
Speaker 2: fucking ruined? Shit? So soon after her divorce in nineteen

1656
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 2: sixty nine, she takes her three kids and moves to Aspen.

1657
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 2: That's where Spider Savage was living at the time. Spider's

1658
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:42,799
Speaker 2: Savage in the sixties. It's such a crazy name as okay,

1659
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,360
Speaker 2: so he's the local hero, he's the golden boy. So

1660
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 2: a little bit about Spider Savage. He's the reason he

1661
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 2: has that nickname is because he was born premature and

1662
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 2: when his father saw him, he said he was just

1663
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:57,679
Speaker 2: all arms and legs. He looked like a little spider.

1664
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 2: So from a baby they called them Spider, which is

1665
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:04,719
Speaker 2: the cutest. He grew up skiing at Idolweiss Ski Area

1666
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 2: in Kyber's, California, near modern day Sierra at Tahoe Ski Resort.

1667
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:14,600
Speaker 2: So it's just basically it's basically the you know that

1668
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:19,080
Speaker 2: part of northern California, but the mountain East Mountains where

1669
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 2: it's all that's kind of what everybody does up there.

1670
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:27,320
Speaker 2: It's like snowboardings and skiing all the time. Uh, And

1671
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:31,120
Speaker 2: he kind of kicked off Like in the seventies, skiing

1672
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 2: all of a sudden got really popular in this way

1673
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:38,599
Speaker 2: where like everyone, like when I was in grammar school,

1674
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 2: like high school boys would wear ski jackets with their

1675
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 2: lift tickets still on the zipper. It was like that

1676
01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:47,040
Speaker 2: where it was. It was that early. It was heading

1677
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 2: into the early eighties where being rich got really popular too,

1678
01:26:50,439 --> 01:26:53,599
Speaker 2: like Izod shirts. Yeah, this was the pre Izod shirt

1679
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:57,679
Speaker 2: way of having status. Was like if you skied because

1680
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 2: because there's like resorts, that's it. You don't go for

1681
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 2: the day. Yeah, yeah, you have to have money to ski. Yeah.

1682
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:07,960
Speaker 2: So Spider Side which was like the king of skiing

1683
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 2: and really like made it popular. He was.

1684
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty eight he made the Winter Olympic team,

1685
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 1: placed fifth in the slalom event. He was blue eyed,

1686
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,400
Speaker 1: blonde haired, good looking, very skilled with the ladies, and

1687
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:26,599
Speaker 1: he was the most famous skier in America in nineteen

1688
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 1: seventy one. That's when he moved to Oh I forgot

1689
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,839
Speaker 1: to say he torched. This is from that skiing website.

1690
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:38,680
Speaker 1: The quote was he torched the ski racing competition in

1691
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 1: high school and was taken on scholarship to the Colorado

1692
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: University at Boulder to ski with Billy Kid. So he

1693
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,759
Speaker 1: basically was, you know, like a little skiing savant.

1694
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:53,599
Speaker 2: What's up, bolder, come on see you soon. So yeah,

1695
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 2: that's right, heads up, older, We're gonna come ski with you.

1696
01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:01,599
Speaker 2: Never never, ever. So in seventy one, after his big

1697
01:28:01,640 --> 01:28:03,720
Speaker 2: successes and he's starting to make money and how he

1698
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:06,679
Speaker 2: had a ton of sponsors, and also you see these pictures,

1699
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:09,160
Speaker 2: he was just cool, looking like he had a real

1700
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:13,800
Speaker 2: chisel jaw. He kind of looked like Dennis Wilson, the

1701
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:16,040
Speaker 2: drummer for the but for the beach boys, like the

1702
01:28:16,080 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 2: hot brother or like what's he doing? They never let

1703
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 2: him talk. He looked like that guy with like you know,

1704
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 2: he had big sideburns. Why can't just like he has

1705
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 2: to say, so he's the drummer. Uh So, he he

1706
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 2: always had like striped turtlenecks on, like he was just cool.

1707
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 2: He was cool, dangerous. What's the thing.

1708
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: He was like a beatnik kind of exactly.

1709
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:52,600
Speaker 2: That was like yeah, yeah, like a sunburned cheeks, rugged outdoorsy.

1710
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 2: But then also sexy, super fucking hot. Okay, So seventy one,

1711
01:28:57,439 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 2: he moves to Aspen because it's the place to be

1712
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 2: for pros gear and obviously he's the star, so he's

1713
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:03,439
Speaker 2: going to be in the middle of all that. But

1714
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:06,759
Speaker 2: he's twenty seven. He's the richest prose gear on the circuit.

1715
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:08,559
Speaker 2: And there was a movie that.

1716
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 1: Robert Robert Redford stard in, yeah, called Downhill Racer that

1717
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:14,080
Speaker 1: is allegedly based on.

1718
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 2: Site Spiders Redford. So like Robert Redford played him in

1719
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 2: the seventies, that's how hot this guy was exactly. Okay,

1720
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 2: So that's when he moved. You know, he's twenty seven

1721
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 2: when he moves into Starwood, he's His neighbors are John Denver,

1722
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 2: who was the cugest music star at the time, and

1723
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 2: the man who owns Sears, Edgar Stern. His name was

1724
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 2: So Sears plays into both our fucking murders, Sears Baby. Yeah,

1725
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 2: that Sears was The seventies was all about Sears Rebecca company.

1726
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:48,000
Speaker 2: There's nothing like looking through the Sears catalog for Christmas

1727
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 2: time trying to figure out what you wanted to get

1728
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 2: for Christmas?

1729
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:53,719
Speaker 1: Do you know that they there's some there's a book.

1730
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 1: There's like three books of It's just Sears catalogs from

1731
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:58,839
Speaker 1: the six fifties, sixties, and seventies.

1732
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:00,799
Speaker 2: I'm buying this free, you know. Wacko.

1733
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 1: Yes, they have all this place in fucking hollywo Or

1734
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: like Silver Lake has. He's insane books that someone made.

1735
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 1: They just made the whole catalog. That's crazy Sears ship

1736
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 1: for sale.

1737
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 2: I would even look. I would get so like into greedy.

1738
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 2: What am I going to get? I want that? Yeah,

1739
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:22,080
Speaker 2: that I would take it into the curtains area, because

1740
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:25,959
Speaker 2: right after the toys was like the curtains, and I

1741
01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 2: do I want these curtains? Like my God, wouldn't end

1742
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 2: that greed just just kept going on that. It was

1743
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:36,240
Speaker 2: just dreams of having nice things and now you can

1744
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 2: do it. You have dogs, so you can't. That's right,

1745
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,640
Speaker 2: they'll rip those goddamn curtains down. Okay, so yeah go

1746
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 2: Uh he moves to asmen. He joins the USA's Professional

1747
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 2: Ski Racing Tour in nineteen seventy and he's the best

1748
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:58,080
Speaker 2: one on it. He's a babe magnet, as they would say. Uh.

1749
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 2: And he starts doing celebrity ski racing events that are

1750
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 2: designed to drum up support and fans for the US

1751
01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 2: Pro Tour that he was on because he did like

1752
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 2: the World Cup. He was constantly competing as a professional skier.

1753
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:13,880
Speaker 2: So at one of those events in nineteen seventy two

1754
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 2: in Bear Valley, he meets Claudine Lange and they quickly

1755
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:21,599
Speaker 2: become an item. She there's a story in that Dominic

1756
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,519
Speaker 2: Dunn show where it was like she saw him and

1757
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:26,880
Speaker 2: she asked a friend who was also a skier, who

1758
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 2: is that? And then she like was she was? He

1759
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 2: was in her sighte she was like, I'm getting that

1760
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 2: guy for her. So basically it worked. They got together,

1761
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:41,280
Speaker 2: She moved into his house, took her kids, they all

1762
01:31:41,400 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 2: lived in his house, and they became pictures on the

1763
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:48,160
Speaker 2: Aspen party circuit. Now this was nineteen seventy two Aspen

1764
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 2: skiing party circuit, so it's all coke and it pays

1765
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 2: so much money to go to one of those parties.

1766
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 2: I mean imagine like the gold necklaces and the like

1767
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:03,520
Speaker 2: the tans on the frosty glass and it's an amazing

1768
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:06,840
Speaker 2: like log cabin mansions, like those houses of like really

1769
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,559
Speaker 2: high ceilings of white shag carpeting. I would I would

1770
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:13,400
Speaker 2: catch and so much coke, like coke to your ankles,

1771
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 2: just like scoop it up off the ground, and like snow.

1772
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 2: They're just scan it's snow, snow, snow everywhere, and they

1773
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 2: are truly the it crowds. So there's a lot of

1774
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:26,880
Speaker 2: people that actually didn't like her because she moved in

1775
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:29,640
Speaker 2: so quickly, and he was so popular and had so

1776
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 2: many girlfriends and friends, and you know, got around and

1777
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:37,800
Speaker 2: was this young, you know, beautiful playboy pro athlete, and

1778
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:40,080
Speaker 2: she basically got in there and locked that shit down

1779
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 2: and was like, I'm in your house. We're a boyfriend girlfriend.

1780
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:49,679
Speaker 1: So after she moved in, his wild days abruptly ended,

1781
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,720
Speaker 1: which was a hard adjustment for him.

1782
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 2: There was fighting. She was very jealous, but she kind

1783
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 2: of had reason to be. At one point she had

1784
01:32:57,080 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 2: to forbid him from attending the Best Breast Back. Yes

1785
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 2: she should have. Yeah, they were you know, it's the seventies, Jesus.

1786
01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:07,000
Speaker 2: They would do things and.

1787
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:10,479
Speaker 1: So this is like these this inner circle super rich

1788
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:12,360
Speaker 1: like sports partying.

1789
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:14,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were doing where it's like, well, I'm gonna

1790
01:33:14,479 --> 01:33:17,280
Speaker 2: have a party at my house. Bring your best hits.

1791
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 2: We'll line them up and I know.

1792
01:33:19,400 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 1: Wet t shirt contests, were like, the thought of that now, Yeah,

1793
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:23,719
Speaker 1: it was so normal.

1794
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was like a voluntary wet t shirt

1795
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 2: contest where no one was being paid or anything. That

1796
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:34,760
Speaker 2: wasn't at a bar. Yeah, best breast, So he couldn't go.

1797
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 2: He was mad, She was mad. There's stories of them

1798
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 2: being at a nightclub, him not paying enough attention to her,

1799
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:46,599
Speaker 2: so she throws an entire glass of wine at him

1800
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 2: from across the road. Jesus, it's all coke fueled. Yeah,

1801
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:54,200
Speaker 2: everyone loves it though, yes exactly. This was back when

1802
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 2: they didn't think coke is bad for you. And by

1803
01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:00,160
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, their relationship was beginning to strain, and

1804
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 2: he was skiing less, partying more. She had to stay

1805
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:06,479
Speaker 2: home with kids. Of course, she was intensely jealous of

1806
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:09,720
Speaker 2: the women that he got to constantly interact with and

1807
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 2: the women they were totally drawn to him, and that

1808
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,559
Speaker 2: I'm sure he was drawn to as well. By January

1809
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy six, he was telling friends he wanted

1810
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 2: her out of his life, but she wouldn't leave. Oh no.

1811
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:22,800
Speaker 2: And they say that a lot of the reason that

1812
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 2: he didn't just kick her to the curb was because

1813
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:27,720
Speaker 2: he loved her kids, and he really cared about her kids,

1814
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:30,920
Speaker 2: and he didn't want them to suffer in any way.

1815
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:35,800
Speaker 2: So he kept kept it going longer than probably he

1816
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 2: wanted to or should have, because he just was so

1817
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 2: been there, worried about yeah, worried about So Spider and

1818
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:49,720
Speaker 2: Claudiine spent the morning oh sorry. By March of seventy six,

1819
01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 2: he gave her the ultimatum to move out by April first.

1820
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:55,920
Speaker 2: So he waited all that time and then was like, look,

1821
01:34:55,960 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 2: you've got to go, And the only reason I said

1822
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:02,240
Speaker 2: that already. So they spent the morning of March twenty

1823
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 2: first apart. He was skiing, she was sipping wine at

1824
01:35:06,360 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 2: a bar called Little Mells in the morning. She was

1825
01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:14,400
Speaker 2: twenty fucking box that it was shabby, a nice breakfast wine.

1826
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:18,200
Speaker 2: She was like, I fucking hate my life. My hot

1827
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 2: boyfriend's kicking me out. What am I going to do?

1828
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:24,680
Speaker 2: My favorite murder line of breakfast wines. Please they go

1829
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 2: with eggs. Yeah, you can port into cereal. Whatever it

1830
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 2: takes to get you to noon, to your lunch beard,

1831
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 2: to your nap, to your lunch beer. Okay. So later

1832
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 2: that day she joins him at a party at the

1833
01:35:39,320 --> 01:35:42,640
Speaker 2: home of an ABC sportscaster. I should have written his

1834
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:46,040
Speaker 2: name down is Bill Something. It's always Bill Something. But

1835
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:48,679
Speaker 2: I also love that it's like there's an afternoon party

1836
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 2: like whatever. But people noted that at this party they

1837
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 2: were not their normal selves. They weren't being warmed, they

1838
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 2: were barely around each other, and they left separately. A

1839
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 2: lot of people loaded it. So a little bit later

1840
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:07,240
Speaker 2: that day, she was seen driving around town erratically, and

1841
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:11,280
Speaker 2: she eventually drove through the gates of Star Wars star

1842
01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:13,920
Speaker 2: Wood at a very high rate of speed. Breakfast wine,

1843
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:18,400
Speaker 2: breakfast wine fueled. It'll get you a car raide so

1844
01:36:18,479 --> 01:36:22,880
Speaker 2: many times it's gotten me hubble. And then very soon

1845
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:26,639
Speaker 2: after her speeding through the gates of Starwood, the gunshots

1846
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:33,080
Speaker 2: will report it come on. So the ballistics showed that

1847
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,080
Speaker 2: she was standing more than six feet away from Spider

1848
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 2: when the gun went off. And Spider's father was a

1849
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,160
Speaker 2: highway patrolman and he grew up with guns. He knew

1850
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:48,080
Speaker 2: a lot about gun safety and proper gun handling, and

1851
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 2: he would have never taught someone to shoot inside the house, right,

1852
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:56,400
Speaker 2: that's just basic gun safety stuff of you. If you're

1853
01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:58,639
Speaker 2: teaching someone how to use a gun, you don't let

1854
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 2: them hold the gun and point it out, you b

1855
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:05,680
Speaker 2: and you don't do it in the bathroom. See. But

1856
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 2: also he can't teach her how to use the gun

1857
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 2: if she's standing six feet away with the gun and

1858
01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:14,120
Speaker 2: he's got his back to her bending over, honey. Okay.

1859
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:20,200
Speaker 2: So they also found small indentations in the cartridge of

1860
01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 2: the bullet, which meant that the gun had jammed and

1861
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,719
Speaker 2: the trigger had been pulled three or four times before

1862
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 2: it discharged. No. So at the trial that was in

1863
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:35,720
Speaker 2: January of nineteen seventy seven.

1864
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:39,439
Speaker 1: Can you imagine, like I'm going to kill this person. No, wait,

1865
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try it like shoot didn't work. No, I'm

1866
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:44,600
Speaker 1: doing aget like that many times.

1867
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 2: Like wine stupid again. Yeah, she just has to stand

1868
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:54,599
Speaker 2: there like keep trying. And also he's in this he's

1869
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:57,559
Speaker 2: about to take a shower, so like is the shower running,

1870
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 2: he can't hear the clicks, Like he's not so far away,

1871
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 2: he doesn't even know she's in the room. It's so creepy, okay,

1872
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:07,880
Speaker 2: and so different than the original like what she claimed.

1873
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 2: So at the trial, she said that her diary was

1874
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:17,160
Speaker 2: not out on the dresser, that she had hidden it

1875
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:21,560
Speaker 2: away in the drawer, and then the defense showed the photographs.

1876
01:38:21,560 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 2: The police photographs were at one point it's there or

1877
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 2: what it starts out, not there, then it's there, which

1878
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:31,680
Speaker 2: essentially the police photographs proved her story.

1879
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:33,360
Speaker 1: That it was never out there in the first place,

1880
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 1: I meaning what they planted it right.

1881
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:42,160
Speaker 2: But that they found it that they basically didn't weren't

1882
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:44,160
Speaker 2: allowed to search because if you have something in a

1883
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 2: drawer that's not really yeah, you can't search for it.

1884
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:51,720
Speaker 2: That's illegal search and seizure. I guess, shit, So yeah,

1885
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:54,680
Speaker 2: I guess. So it's like considered private. I don't know.

1886
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,160
Speaker 2: It has to be out in open views. Everyone hyde

1887
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:02,120
Speaker 2: your diaries go now deeply and between your mattresses. So

1888
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:09,160
Speaker 2: also so everything written in that diary, which was all

1889
01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 2: her talking about how the relationship had soured, how he

1890
01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:14,400
Speaker 2: was kicking her out. They had it all on paper

1891
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,400
Speaker 2: from her voice, and none of that was admissible in court.

1892
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 2: Buck Then they mishandled the gun, so a cop picked

1893
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:28,639
Speaker 2: it up with a handkerchief and put it into the

1894
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:31,720
Speaker 2: glove box of a cop car. That's how he had

1895
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 2: That's how they dealt with the murder weapons. It's like

1896
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:37,120
Speaker 2: a naked gun into the fuck. They're just like, Murray,

1897
01:39:37,160 --> 01:39:39,160
Speaker 2: can you take this and make sure it gets processed?

1898
01:39:39,200 --> 01:39:41,040
Speaker 2: And he was like, no problem, Murray.

1899
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 1: That that fucking tissue that you used to blow your

1900
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:46,040
Speaker 1: nose on ten minutes ago. Can you use that tissue

1901
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:46,880
Speaker 1: to pick up that gun?

1902
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:49,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then pass it over here to this guy

1903
01:39:49,479 --> 01:39:52,680
Speaker 2: that's never had a job before. Yeah.

1904
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:57,599
Speaker 1: Essentially the person that ended up taking the car, this

1905
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:02,000
Speaker 1: cop took those bullets out of the gun, and because

1906
01:40:02,040 --> 01:40:05,320
Speaker 1: he was not a trained ballistics expert, all of that

1907
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 1: information that there were more inventations on the cartridge was

1908
01:40:09,400 --> 01:40:12,880
Speaker 1: also not admissible court because anything could have happened when

1909
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:16,160
Speaker 1: that person was handling the gun. So now the jury

1910
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:21,400
Speaker 1: can't know that the relationship was ending, or that it

1911
01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:22,200
Speaker 1: was a misfire.

1912
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:25,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't just one accidental shot. The trigger had been

1913
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:30,960
Speaker 2: pulled up to and maybe more than four times. They

1914
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 2: did use the autopsy report to suggest that when Savage

1915
01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:36,800
Speaker 2: was struck, he was bent over, facing away and at

1916
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:41,559
Speaker 2: least six feet away from her, which was inconsistent with

1917
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:48,200
Speaker 2: her story. Now as this is as the trial starts,

1918
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 2: of course, aspens overrun with reporters and there's they're everywhere.

1919
01:40:52,640 --> 01:40:55,160
Speaker 2: They're taking up everything there and they're trying to get

1920
01:40:55,200 --> 01:40:59,320
Speaker 2: stories from everybody. The locals, of course, are disgusted. They're

1921
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:01,639
Speaker 2: not having it. They hate them all. They're not talking

1922
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 2: to them. Hunter S. Thompson lived in Aspen at the time,

1923
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:08,400
Speaker 2: and he was quoted as saying, it's like fouling your

1924
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:12,040
Speaker 2: own nest woo, because basically it's like you know, they

1925
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:17,200
Speaker 2: her shooting him has basically ruined their entire community and

1926
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:23,840
Speaker 2: drawing those people there. Also a reporter, a local overhearder

1927
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 2: reporter saying this is the best we have murder. We

1928
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:29,240
Speaker 2: have sex, and we have drugs. So they were like, oh,

1929
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:33,240
Speaker 2: there was Reporters were thrilled about this story thirsty. The

1930
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:38,879
Speaker 2: prosecution rested after two days, arguing that she that Claudine

1931
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:40,639
Speaker 2: should have known the gun was going to go off,

1932
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:45,120
Speaker 2: and the strategy was because they weren't going to be

1933
01:41:45,160 --> 01:41:48,719
Speaker 2: able to convict her without the actual evidence that they needed,

1934
01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 2: so they wanted to get her on the lesser charge

1935
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:55,160
Speaker 2: of criminal negligence. The defense put her on the stand

1936
01:41:55,760 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 2: and from the first day in court for the jury selection,

1937
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:03,160
Speaker 2: she was dressed in big, baggy gray dresses. She was

1938
01:42:03,160 --> 01:42:07,880
Speaker 2: wearing peter pant collars and turtlenecks. She was totally made

1939
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:12,000
Speaker 2: did everything she could to make herself look plain, unpretty

1940
01:42:12,120 --> 01:42:17,439
Speaker 2: and now like the gorgeous starlet that she was. She

1941
01:42:17,560 --> 01:42:19,840
Speaker 2: spoke so softly when she was on the stand that

1942
01:42:19,880 --> 01:42:21,840
Speaker 2: the jurors had to lean forward in their seats to

1943
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:22,240
Speaker 2: hear her.

1944
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:25,759
Speaker 1: They're so manipulative when they have to move their bodies

1945
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:27,200
Speaker 1: to come here, you right.

1946
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:30,360
Speaker 2: And like that she when she does, there's like a

1947
01:42:30,400 --> 01:42:35,880
Speaker 2: thing where she makes a h after she's after it's over,

1948
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:39,040
Speaker 2: she makes this public statement and she's like, I just

1949
01:42:39,080 --> 01:42:42,880
Speaker 2: want to say that. Like she really does talk like

1950
01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:50,160
Speaker 2: a little kitten girl all the time. So she she

1951
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:53,120
Speaker 2: maintained it was accidental shooting. She stuck to her story.

1952
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 2: She said she and Spider were still in love. He

1953
01:42:56,040 --> 01:42:59,439
Speaker 2: was her best friend. She could never kill anyone, especially

1954
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:03,120
Speaker 2: not him. The jury deliberated for just under three hours,

1955
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:08,760
Speaker 2: and the verdict was guilty of negligent homicide, which meant

1956
01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:10,920
Speaker 2: that she could be facing up to two years in prison,

1957
01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 2: but the judge changed that conviction to a misdemeanor of

1958
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:25,680
Speaker 2: criminal negligence and sentenced her to spend thirty days in

1959
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 2: the Pitkin County Jail and to pay a fine of

1960
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty.

1961
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:32,759
Speaker 1: Dollars two hundred dollars for taking someone's entire life.

1962
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are people that were like that. People who

1963
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:42,559
Speaker 2: like drunk drivers get worse, get worse sentences. And they

1964
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:46,400
Speaker 2: said that the Picken County Jail in Aspen was like

1965
01:43:46,479 --> 01:43:49,559
Speaker 2: Maybury with really good room service. Yeah, fucking send me there.

1966
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:52,200
Speaker 1: I mean, they allowed her to repaint her cell pink

1967
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:59,320
Speaker 1: when she was there, but she Wow, the critical The

1968
01:43:59,439 --> 01:44:02,080
Speaker 1: judge said that she had to serve her thirty.

1969
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 2: Days in jail, but that she could do it when

1970
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:07,880
Speaker 2: it was convenient for her. Oh, it's not Jerry fucking duty.

1971
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:10,720
Speaker 2: So she even Jerry duty. It doesn't work that way.

1972
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:15,960
Speaker 2: Well yeah, so it was real. Oh yeah, real like that.

1973
01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:20,160
Speaker 2: I mean there's a you could you could theorize distantly

1974
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:22,559
Speaker 2: that maybe someone was on the take, that it would

1975
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:25,599
Speaker 2: it would end up being that forgiving toward her. Sure,

1976
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 2: the critical reaction to the verdict and toward her and

1977
01:44:29,320 --> 01:44:34,800
Speaker 2: the sentencing was exacerbated when she, after the trouble was over,

1978
01:44:35,320 --> 01:44:39,519
Speaker 2: went on vacation to Mexico with her defense attorney, Ron

1979
01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:43,959
Speaker 2: Austin No, who was married at the time. No, yeah, honey.

1980
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:48,640
Speaker 2: They later married and they still live in Aspen. Like

1981
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:52,679
Speaker 2: now now well at the airing of power, privilege in justice,

1982
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:53,200
Speaker 2: like you and I?

1983
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:55,519
Speaker 1: Could you and I and Stephen call the Burbank Airport

1984
01:44:55,600 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 1: right now and get her fucking plan and go meet them.

1985
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:00,400
Speaker 2: No, the Burbank air blarts closed, not for her. No,

1986
01:45:01,400 --> 01:45:06,160
Speaker 2: damn it called the Urban. After the criminal trial, Savage's

1987
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:09,400
Speaker 2: parents filed a three million dollars wrongful death lawsuit against

1988
01:45:09,479 --> 01:45:13,519
Speaker 2: Lage in May of nineteen seventy seven that was eventually

1989
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:16,479
Speaker 2: resolved out of court in September of nineteen seventy nine

1990
01:45:16,920 --> 01:45:20,759
Speaker 2: with the proviso that Lange never tell or write about

1991
01:45:20,760 --> 01:45:25,639
Speaker 2: the story. Wow and Mick Jagger wrote a song called

1992
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:29,640
Speaker 2: Claudine for the emotional Rescue Rolling Stones album. No, it

1993
01:45:29,680 --> 01:45:32,360
Speaker 2: was never released because they found out about it and

1994
01:45:32,920 --> 01:45:37,840
Speaker 2: like basically said, will suit you shit? Lost track? Right,

1995
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:41,880
Speaker 2: And that is the murder of Spider Savage. I have

1996
01:45:42,360 --> 01:45:46,040
Speaker 2: never even fucking heard that name before. Really, I think

1997
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:48,479
Speaker 2: I considered it like kind of a moldy oldie of like,

1998
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:53,200
Speaker 2: because it's so sensational, it's so celebrity and rich people.

1999
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:55,479
Speaker 1: You want to see their photos. I want to see

2000
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:58,000
Speaker 1: all I've never and so they're still alive.

2001
01:45:58,960 --> 01:45:59,840
Speaker 2: Uh, he's not.

2002
01:46:00,160 --> 01:46:06,200
Speaker 1: Let's say no, come on, you said they wait what wait?

2003
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:09,200
Speaker 2: Start over? Start over? I miss tell it again, I

2004
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:13,519
Speaker 2: miss the middle. Wow. I don't know if she still

2005
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:15,559
Speaker 2: loved because I actually, as I was pulling up to

2006
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:18,800
Speaker 2: your house, it was looking up Claudie Lange today and

2007
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:22,679
Speaker 2: hitting things and like, I can't drive. Well you shouldn't,

2008
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:25,240
Speaker 2: it shouldn't. But then also if my glasses on, I

2009
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 2: can't read small. Yeah, let's pretend she is that. You

2010
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:30,000
Speaker 2: know what that can be. Everybody else if you're and

2011
01:46:30,040 --> 01:46:33,519
Speaker 2: if you're interested in the Claudaine Lange story, go ahead

2012
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:35,600
Speaker 2: and google it, yeah, and then tell us about it

2013
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:38,599
Speaker 2: on Twitter. That's right, if there's anything good. My friend

2014
01:46:38,680 --> 01:46:42,559
Speaker 2: John Levenstein, who I work with, is we were actually

2015
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:45,240
Speaker 2: talking about it in the room today and he said,

2016
01:46:45,320 --> 01:46:47,800
Speaker 2: I think there was a hoax. There was something about

2017
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:50,080
Speaker 2: a hoax in that case, but I couldn't. I looked

2018
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:52,400
Speaker 2: it up in four different ways and I couldn't find

2019
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 2: anything about what he was talking about. Where are her

2020
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:56,360
Speaker 2: kids is what I want to know? And can they

2021
01:46:56,400 --> 01:47:00,000
Speaker 2: have a podcast? Well, Andy Williams, when all that starts.

2022
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:02,639
Speaker 2: He flew in and he would go to court with her.

2023
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 2: He like stood by her and really supported her, and

2024
01:47:06,600 --> 01:47:08,880
Speaker 2: I think maybe just as much for the kids as

2025
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:11,639
Speaker 2: anyone else. But like there was there was a bit

2026
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:16,920
Speaker 2: of a like United Front presentation in that way, which

2027
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:20,320
Speaker 2: always helps the defense when when also helps those kids,

2028
01:47:20,360 --> 01:47:24,400
Speaker 2: Like it's not I mean, at least they had someone.

2029
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. It just makes me feel slightly better

2030
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,200
Speaker 2: that they could go back to their Malibu mansion and

2031
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:32,920
Speaker 2: go live there and you know, yeah be and at

2032
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:38,320
Speaker 2: least have a dad's around normalish life. Oh song man, Yeah,

2033
01:47:38,360 --> 01:47:45,080
Speaker 2: what a boomer. Okay, we are back, Karen. Do you

2034
01:47:45,120 --> 01:47:48,920
Speaker 2: have any updates? I do, yes. Claudine Lange is now

2035
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:53,040
Speaker 2: in her eighties, still married to that former lawyer, Ron Austin.

2036
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:56,719
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, it was revealed that Spider Savage

2037
01:47:56,720 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 2: had a daughter in nineteen sixty seven. Her name is

2038
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 2: miss See Grace. She didn't know who her birth father

2039
01:48:02,479 --> 01:48:05,440
Speaker 2: was until she was twenty years old. She's now contributed

2040
01:48:05,479 --> 01:48:10,040
Speaker 2: to various documentary projects on her father's life. Recently, she

2041
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:13,080
Speaker 2: worked with Amy Redford, who is Robert Redford's daughter, on

2042
01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:17,160
Speaker 2: her feature length documentary and Amy Redford says that this

2043
01:48:17,240 --> 01:48:21,920
Speaker 2: documentary tells the whole Spider Savage story. So it looks

2044
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:25,240
Speaker 2: like it's still in production, but it's really cool this

2045
01:48:25,360 --> 01:48:27,360
Speaker 2: idea that there's going to be like this kind of

2046
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:32,519
Speaker 2: like next generation of TV and films. That are these

2047
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:36,519
Speaker 2: stories that we have been talking about for ten years,

2048
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:38,559
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like all of these things

2049
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:40,680
Speaker 2: that when we hear about them or they come up,

2050
01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:42,720
Speaker 2: it's like, I can't wait to see that, and I

2051
01:48:42,720 --> 01:48:44,799
Speaker 2: can't wait to see how somebody else tells the story.

2052
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:47,840
Speaker 1: I know, like when I was researching the Mainline Murders again,

2053
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:49,839
Speaker 1: I was like, I wish I could redo this story

2054
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:52,080
Speaker 1: because it's so fascinating. I want to talk about it

2055
01:48:52,120 --> 01:48:52,639
Speaker 1: now again.

2056
01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:55,559
Speaker 2: I mean, I wish I could redo every single goddamn

2057
01:48:55,640 --> 01:49:00,000
Speaker 2: episode that we've heard so far. Hopefully that's a given people, Yeah,

2058
01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:02,800
Speaker 2: listen to these understand that, right, because we just do

2059
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:06,000
Speaker 2: so many great ones. And it used to be when

2060
01:49:06,040 --> 01:49:08,599
Speaker 2: we did these stories, like my documents were never more

2061
01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:11,679
Speaker 2: than five pages long. Isn't that hilarious? They're not three

2062
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:12,559
Speaker 2: times longer.

2063
01:49:13,439 --> 01:49:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're so much longer now. I fear what I

2064
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:18,320
Speaker 1: was like that I was thirty seven at the time,

2065
01:49:18,439 --> 01:49:21,640
Speaker 1: this was episode seventy five. We've done five hundred episodes

2066
01:49:21,680 --> 01:49:26,200
Speaker 1: now like that, I want to do some rea, Like

2067
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:28,280
Speaker 1: let's start from the beginning and do them all over.

2068
01:49:28,520 --> 01:49:31,640
Speaker 2: What if we did five hundred episodes again? Oh the

2069
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:34,639
Speaker 2: real answer? Yeah, the final murder would be our double

2070
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:38,679
Speaker 2: murder for sure, wouldn't it? Does it feel like it? Yes?

2071
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:44,080
Speaker 1: All right, well let's head back into wrap of the show.

2072
01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:49,800
Speaker 2: What's your pure positive of the week? I don't know yet,

2073
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 2: what's yours? I so hard my story for so long.

2074
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 2: I'm just trying so hard to think of it. You

2075
01:49:58,600 --> 01:49:58,920
Speaker 2: know what.

2076
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:04,559
Speaker 1: It's running errands with Vince. Like he's not working right now,

2077
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:06,840
Speaker 1: which is great. I mean he's he's our tour.

2078
01:50:06,760 --> 01:50:13,320
Speaker 2: Manager, but yet to go to anywhere, which is.

2079
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:16,120
Speaker 1: Kind of new for us, and like, you know, they're

2080
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:18,439
Speaker 1: really stupid, like to get the post and then I

2081
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:20,480
Speaker 1: have to go to the fuck hid to get my prescription.

2082
01:50:20,600 --> 01:50:21,960
Speaker 1: I have to do this and that, and like we

2083
01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:24,320
Speaker 1: go together and then we go get lunch while we're

2084
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:24,559
Speaker 1: doing it.

2085
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:27,120
Speaker 2: It's just like it's so nice.

2086
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:30,479
Speaker 1: I like being alone a lot, but I don't mind

2087
01:50:30,479 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 1: it when I'm with him. I'd rather be with him

2088
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:35,760
Speaker 1: than alone, which is really rare for me. So it's

2089
01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:38,799
Speaker 1: just running errands with him makes me really fucking happy,

2090
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:39,720
Speaker 1: like we did it today, and.

2091
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:42,840
Speaker 2: It's just that's nice. It's just fucking cool. It's much

2092
01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:46,599
Speaker 2: better with him around. It's kid, you married him, I know, right,

2093
01:50:46,640 --> 01:50:48,760
Speaker 2: it's going to keep him around a little. Yeah, at

2094
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 2: least through our tour. That's yours. I'm trying to think.

2095
01:50:56,520 --> 01:50:58,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I love that dinner that we got to

2096
01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:02,120
Speaker 2: go to. Our friend invited us to a weekly dinner

2097
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:04,320
Speaker 2: that they do, which was very cool, and it was

2098
01:51:04,439 --> 01:51:06,479
Speaker 2: just like one of those things where I sitting there

2099
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:08,840
Speaker 2: and it was such good food and it was such

2100
01:51:09,439 --> 01:51:12,360
Speaker 2: fun like smart, funny people, and it was one of

2101
01:51:12,360 --> 01:51:15,360
Speaker 2: those the feel of it, I was like, oh, this

2102
01:51:15,400 --> 01:51:20,160
Speaker 2: is how like healthy adults live their life like you.

2103
01:51:20,240 --> 01:51:22,519
Speaker 2: This is this is how you're supposed to do it.

2104
01:51:22,520 --> 01:51:24,840
Speaker 1: It's not like you have when you have a weekly meeting.

2105
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:28,559
Speaker 1: It's like you have uh, it's not like I'll see

2106
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:31,080
Speaker 1: you when I see you. It's like you have this

2107
01:51:31,160 --> 01:51:34,120
Speaker 1: obligation to these people and throughout the week, like however

2108
01:51:34,200 --> 01:51:35,880
Speaker 1: bad your week is, you know you're still going to

2109
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:38,439
Speaker 1: see these people on Sunday and it's going to be nice.

2110
01:51:38,479 --> 01:51:42,760
Speaker 2: And I kind of like what people make a community

2111
01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:46,200
Speaker 2: for themselves. Yeah, make like if you don't have the

2112
01:51:46,240 --> 01:51:49,800
Speaker 2: family around you that maybe either you used to have

2113
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:52,760
Speaker 2: or that some people other people do have or don't have,

2114
01:51:53,080 --> 01:51:57,560
Speaker 2: you still set up kind of like a community for yourself.

2115
01:51:57,640 --> 01:51:59,679
Speaker 2: It's good. I think it's so healthy for people.

2116
01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:03,000
Speaker 1: Nice when you turn your friends into family. So thanks

2117
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:04,479
Speaker 1: Dave Clock for inviting us.

2118
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:09,880
Speaker 2: Thanks Dave Clock, and also thanks for that restaurant. And

2119
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:13,160
Speaker 2: maybe we shouldn't blow it up, but yeah, because I

2120
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:17,080
Speaker 2: don't normally like red sauce and that bread. There was

2121
01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:18,880
Speaker 2: a bowl of red sauce they gave you to dip

2122
01:52:18,880 --> 01:52:20,719
Speaker 2: your bread in, and I was just like, I would

2123
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:22,080
Speaker 2: like to do this for the rest of my life.

2124
01:52:22,080 --> 01:52:25,200
Speaker 1: And the breads is like insane rosemary bread. That was

2125
01:52:25,280 --> 01:52:28,160
Speaker 1: just like fucking the best bread I've ever had.

2126
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:31,599
Speaker 2: It was really good. That was really nice. That's it. Yeah, yes,

2127
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:33,880
Speaker 2: because the first thing I thought it was like I

2128
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:35,599
Speaker 2: did a comedy show, but I was like, I hated

2129
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:39,759
Speaker 2: my set and I hate this and then EMAILM yeah,

2130
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:42,360
Speaker 2: and so I don't know, all right, well that's I

2131
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:43,120
Speaker 2: think that's lovely.

2132
01:52:44,040 --> 01:52:50,840
Speaker 1: Thanks, Okay, we are back. I just got to say

2133
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:53,120
Speaker 1: this the thing that I say that it is my

2134
01:52:53,240 --> 01:52:55,240
Speaker 1: favorite thing of the week. We talk about going out

2135
01:52:55,240 --> 01:52:57,600
Speaker 1: to dinner with our friends and how lovely it was,

2136
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:01,200
Speaker 1: and it was. And one of those friends that we

2137
01:53:01,240 --> 01:53:04,200
Speaker 1: are at dinner with that night has since died, and

2138
01:53:04,240 --> 01:53:06,840
Speaker 1: it is one of the saddest first of all, like

2139
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:10,000
Speaker 1: one of the saddest deaths of a young person.

2140
01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:12,639
Speaker 2: It was died too young. His name is Neil Mahoney.

2141
01:53:13,360 --> 01:53:16,400
Speaker 2: And it breaks my heart to think about that night

2142
01:53:16,479 --> 01:53:19,519
Speaker 2: and how fun and excited I was and we all

2143
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:21,960
Speaker 2: were to be there and what a great time we

2144
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:24,080
Speaker 2: were having. And I just think it's a good thing

2145
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:27,160
Speaker 2: to point out of like, do not take your friends

2146
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:30,040
Speaker 2: for granted, do not take your family for granted, don't

2147
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:33,280
Speaker 2: really take any of this for granted. Because as I've

2148
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:36,600
Speaker 2: said a thousand times around o'clock, and it's kind of

2149
01:53:36,640 --> 01:53:39,320
Speaker 2: shocking to look back and be like, oh, that makes

2150
01:53:39,360 --> 01:53:41,639
Speaker 2: me really sad to be like, that was this highlight

2151
01:53:41,680 --> 01:53:42,320
Speaker 2: of my week.

2152
01:53:42,320 --> 01:53:46,320
Speaker 1: Totally, and it feels so recent but so long ago.

2153
01:53:46,479 --> 01:53:49,080
Speaker 1: It was so long ago. It's just crazy how much

2154
01:53:49,120 --> 01:53:49,919
Speaker 1: things change.

2155
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:53,320
Speaker 2: It really is. It's I mean, it is weird too,

2156
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:56,160
Speaker 2: because this is our lives that we're looking back on, right,

2157
01:53:56,240 --> 01:53:59,240
Speaker 2: It's nuts, it's our actual lives. None of this was

2158
01:53:59,280 --> 01:54:02,040
Speaker 2: fucking written for your enjoyment, and actually we were just

2159
01:54:02,120 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 2: like at home, not doing the things we're talking, right.

2160
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:08,080
Speaker 2: But then the other side of that is that it's

2161
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:10,400
Speaker 2: so cute. You're like, my favorite thing this week is

2162
01:54:10,439 --> 01:54:13,200
Speaker 2: me and Vince ran errands together, where I'm just and

2163
01:54:13,680 --> 01:54:16,320
Speaker 2: here we are ten years later, Like, no, it's just

2164
01:54:16,760 --> 01:54:17,559
Speaker 2: it's so.

2165
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:20,759
Speaker 1: Sweet and hearing about the pod loft and my new

2166
01:54:20,800 --> 01:54:23,439
Speaker 1: apartment that I was so excited about, you know, and

2167
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:26,400
Speaker 1: it's like things are so different now I was able

2168
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:30,120
Speaker 1: to like buy a home. Yeah, Vince is with me

2169
01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:33,400
Speaker 1: every day running errands. Still, it's very I just feel

2170
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:35,760
Speaker 1: like no time has passed and so much fucking time

2171
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:36,880
Speaker 1: is passed at the same time.

2172
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild. Okay. So for the titles of this episode,

2173
01:54:40,560 --> 01:54:42,960
Speaker 2: it's originally called Breakfast Wine, but if.

2174
01:54:42,800 --> 01:54:45,040
Speaker 1: We were going to name it today based on something else,

2175
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:46,640
Speaker 1: maybe we would name it.

2176
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:50,600
Speaker 2: Oh, pocket full of Glitter, which is my demand to Steve.

2177
01:54:51,480 --> 01:54:52,240
Speaker 2: I love it.

2178
01:54:52,760 --> 01:54:55,760
Speaker 1: We could also call it a Skipper's Dream show because

2179
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:57,040
Speaker 1: it was so short in the intro.

2180
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, and by short we meant thirty five

2181
01:55:00,800 --> 01:55:04,040
Speaker 2: minutes long insanity. Also, we could call it every other

2182
01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:08,720
Speaker 2: kind of math, which which is George's joke about being

2183
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:11,200
Speaker 2: bad at the present math she's talking about, and every

2184
01:55:11,200 --> 01:55:12,800
Speaker 2: other kind of math always and forever.

2185
01:55:13,320 --> 01:55:15,040
Speaker 1: All right, Well, thank you guys for listening to another

2186
01:55:15,080 --> 01:55:18,839
Speaker 1: episode of rewind. Let's let us say goodbye in twenty seventeen.

2187
01:55:22,000 --> 01:55:25,640
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening, and for being fucking cool

2188
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:28,800
Speaker 1: as shit, and we're on Twitter and Instagram and all

2189
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:32,880
Speaker 1: these places and all that stuff, and thank yeah, thank you,

2190
01:55:33,320 --> 01:55:38,920
Speaker 1: and mostly stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, do

2191
01:55:38,960 --> 01:55:39,440
Speaker 1: you want to cook?

2192
01:55:39,520 --> 01:55:44,640
Speaker 2: Ye? Wait, you want to cooky? Bye bye