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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Null. They call

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Paul. Mission Control deconds. Most importantly, you are you,

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. This is part two of what

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Speaker 1: turned out to be a continuing series on fashion Dark

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Speaker 1: Side of Fashion UH. In our previous episode, we explored

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Speaker 1: the troubling underbelly of the fashion industry. We touched on

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Speaker 1: problems such as exploitation of labor, legislative loopholes around the world,

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Speaker 1: and cases of continuing outright slavery. In today's episode, we're

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Speaker 1: going to look at another aspect of the fashion industry.

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Speaker 1: It's effect on the natural world, which is something I

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Speaker 1: think escapes a lot of folks. I know it escaped

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Speaker 1: to me before we really dove into this. But let's

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Speaker 1: start with makeup, which is fascinating in itself. Here are

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Speaker 1: the facts. Yeah, the first use of early cosmetics generally

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Speaker 1: goes back to ancient Egypt, and it's not uncommon to

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Speaker 1: find Egyptian tombs that actually have makeup canisters or some

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Speaker 1: kind of uh, makeup inside of them. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Um, and Cleopatra, you may have heard this,

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Speaker 1: she used lipstick. They got it to you from ground

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Speaker 1: carmine beetles. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you get hues wherever

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Speaker 1: you can get them. Really, you can still get dies

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Speaker 1: from animals, you know what I mean. The beetles are

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Speaker 1: still are still a part of this industry exactly. And

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Speaker 1: you know, and that was very striking to use the beetles.

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra's used of the beatles was very striking because a

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Speaker 1: lot of other women at the time, It's just anyone

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Speaker 1: who was using makeup would have mixed clay essentially with

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Speaker 1: water to get coloring on their lips, which a red

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Speaker 1: clay kind of situation, perhaps seasonal. Yeah, yeah, but there

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Speaker 1: was other stuff that that people used to find color

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Speaker 1: and to use it on their bodies. Yeah, they were

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Speaker 1: super ahead of the curve. We're still talking about Egypt,

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Speaker 1: where um, you could use coal, which was a mix

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Speaker 1: of metal lead, copper, ash and burnt almond's and surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 1: wasn't particularly good good for you, good for your complexion, making,

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Speaker 1: you know, rubbing lead and copper mixtures on your face

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Speaker 1: probably not the best idea, but it sure looked cool.

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Speaker 1: Gave you this real irridescent kind of sh any i circles,

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Speaker 1: and both men and women were all about this style.

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Speaker 1: They painted these kind of raccoons circles around their eyes,

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Speaker 1: and the circles of call were meant to ward off

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Speaker 1: the evil eye, which is a thing you see often

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Speaker 1: in Egyptian hieroglyphs I'm not mistaken and dangerous spirits and

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Speaker 1: much like you'll see baseball players and football players with

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Speaker 1: those big, you know, kind of dark lines under their eyes. Um.

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Speaker 1: Turns out it's really good at deflecting the sun and

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Speaker 1: keeping it out of your eyes and keeping it from

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Speaker 1: it keeps you cooler, essentially, and it may have even

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Speaker 1: inadvertently helped some of the Egyptians ward off infectious diseases

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Speaker 1: because even though the lead's not good for you, and

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, it can kill off bacteria. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, this wasn't necessarily as much of a thing

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Speaker 1: that we could see because Egyptians didn't have particularly long

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Speaker 1: lifespans anyway, they were like the hamsters of civilization. UM.

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Speaker 1: The it might have actually killed them off if they

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Speaker 1: continued to wear it, if they had had longer life

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Speaker 1: expanse Yep, lead is bad for you. It turns out,

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Speaker 1: as we've seen in the you know, the now infamous

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Speaker 1: UH studies correlating lead exposure in early childhood two problems

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Speaker 1: later in life. We talked about the Egyptians a lot

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Speaker 1: because it's the most is the most commonly known example

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Speaker 1: of what we call prototype cosmetics. UH. The ancient Greeks

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Speaker 1: and Romans also painted their faces with powders made up

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Speaker 1: of various minerals or ground stone. But we can't be

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Speaker 1: too Egyptian centric or Greco Roman centric, because if you

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Speaker 1: think about it, cosmetics appear in some form in virtually

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Speaker 1: every culture. Like we noted in the first part of

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Speaker 1: the series, UH. Fashion is sometimes dismissed as something purely decorative,

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Speaker 1: but it's also it can be a powerful statement. And

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Speaker 1: makeup is the same way as multi double uses across

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Speaker 1: the span of history, not just uh not just relegated

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Speaker 1: to the realm of decoration. Uh nol. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: you pointing out that Cole served ko h l by

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Speaker 1: the way, served a practical purpose. Uh. Makeup has and

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Speaker 1: continues to uh serve as a symbol of religious significance

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Speaker 1: in some cases, or of social status, like your example,

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Speaker 1: Matt about the queen getting the good fancy lipstick with

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Speaker 1: beetles versus you know, the old clay water of the

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Speaker 1: working class and the prolls. So, just like fashion, of course,

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Speaker 1: makeup has gone and we'll go through multiple phases. Different

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Speaker 1: things go in and out of style. The origin story

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Speaker 1: of modern makeup, cosmetics, personal care products as we understand

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Speaker 1: it today, really starts at the dawn of the twentieth century.

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Speaker 1: That's when you see the emergence of things like nail polish,

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Speaker 1: is lipstick, Mascara's in again what we will call the

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Speaker 1: modern form and it there are a couple of really weird,

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Speaker 1: well really fascinating social and technological factors that coincided and

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Speaker 1: birthed modern makeup or popularized it. Well, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: about it. Right around this time, for really the first

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Speaker 1: time in a popular way, you are probably having a

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Speaker 1: picture taken a view like a portrait, something that is

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Speaker 1: up close and personal. It's gonna show everything going on

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Speaker 1: up here right, So yeah, I mean, I mean seriously,

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Speaker 1: you'd have to you'd have to really save up your

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Speaker 1: money if you wanted to get one of these done,

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Speaker 1: and you'd have to sit there for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Is to be the one picture you got. This is it,

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Speaker 1: This is the this is your chance. You gotta make

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Speaker 1: sure you look the absolute best. It's not like you

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Speaker 1: take twenty eight of them and then decide, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to post this to my eighteen hundreds Instagram. And

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Speaker 1: that that time factor is also why people you don't

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Speaker 1: see a ton of people smiling in those old photos,

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Speaker 1: because you would have to do this. We're so for

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Speaker 1: so very long. You know. I don't know about you guys,

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Speaker 1: but I grew up. When I was growing up, I

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Speaker 1: just thought everybody from that time was in a real mood. Totally.

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Speaker 1: Did I make this up? Or weren't there even devices

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Speaker 1: that would like hold their heads in place or something

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Speaker 1: like that, like some kind of little thing that they

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Speaker 1: could rest I swear to God, I know, for for

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Speaker 1: the photography that became popular that was like a photo

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Speaker 1: of a dead body after someone had passed, that kind

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Speaker 1: of apparatus was created, But I don't know about actual

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Speaker 1: like regular role a live human photography head bracers or

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you'd call it, a right, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm getting Maybe I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying I've never heard of. No, I'm gonna go ahead

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Speaker 1: and come out and say it I'm wrong. You know.

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Speaker 1: There's something like that that happens though, especially with photographs

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Speaker 1: of infants, because their heads are really big. So there's

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Speaker 1: probably a mom or dad who's like, let me drop

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Speaker 1: of your nogging here. Uh, you don't worry about it,

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Speaker 1: will be gently prop up in yeah. Uh. The other factor,

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Speaker 1: another factor is that mirrors, true mirrors we would call them,

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Speaker 1: became much more affordable, so they were much more common

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Speaker 1: in the average person's home. But the big one, the

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Speaker 1: biggest badger in the makeup bag here, is the rise

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Speaker 1: of the motion picture fundamentally change the world, fundamentally change

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Speaker 1: uh makeup and the normalization of how people should look.

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Speaker 1: Because we have to remember that a lot of actors

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Speaker 1: who came into the early days of motion pictures were

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Speaker 1: wearing theatrical makeup for live stage. And that's very different

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Speaker 1: because you want some thing that exaggerates your facial feature.

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Speaker 1: So even the people way in the cheap seats can

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Speaker 1: see your emotions and the transformations you go through. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and that just looks screwy on film because you're really

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Speaker 1: close up. It's the same with acting styles being different

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Speaker 1: from stage to film. You have to act very large

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Speaker 1: and and in order for people to catch the vibes

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Speaker 1: that you're putting out there, and film you can act

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Speaker 1: much more daintily and subtly. And by the way, quick amendment,

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Speaker 1: I was not wrong. It's called a head brace and

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Speaker 1: it's absolutely a thing. Well there you go, okay, I was.

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Speaker 1: It's this weird medieval torture device looking thing on a

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Speaker 1: stand that sits behind you, and you can you can

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Speaker 1: lengthen or shorten it depending on you know, where you

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Speaker 1: want your head to be. And it's not like it

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Speaker 1: like it's a claw or something. It's something you sort

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Speaker 1: of lean your head back against because do you think

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Speaker 1: about it, even your neck muscles are gonna get tired

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Speaker 1: and you might drift from one side to the other,

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Speaker 1: forward to back. Where this thing just sort of it's

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Speaker 1: like a fancy head rest on an office chair, only

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Speaker 1: it's separate and you can't see it in the well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's great. As long as the spirit glue

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Speaker 1: holds the mustache on your face, then will be okay.

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Speaker 1: I love it. And those are technological innovations that evolved

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Speaker 1: in step with this new media is what we're having.

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Speaker 1: We're having an increasing democratization of media. But it's nothing

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Speaker 1: like the break deck pace whereat today and fast forward.

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Speaker 1: Of course, makeup cosmetics are a huge part of this

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Speaker 1: and today the modern cosmetic industry, which is so huge

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Speaker 1: that it's tough to even call it a single industry,

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Speaker 1: is an economic titan. It is a financial leviathan. The

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Speaker 1: main categories are each you know, industries of their own skincare,

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Speaker 1: hair care, makeup, perfume, cologne, toiletries, deodorance. Things are called

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Speaker 1: oral cosmetics, which is an interesting kind of liminal space. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: Since the early twentieth century, the production of all these products,

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Speaker 1: beauty and cosmetic products has been controlled by a handful

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Speaker 1: of corporations that I won't call caballs, but I mean

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Speaker 1: they're just very huge and very successful. Uh. Some specialized

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Speaker 1: in these products, like Loreal. Others own a ton of

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Speaker 1: other things that are not associated with cosmetics, like you know,

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Speaker 1: Lever or Procter and Gamble, and then there's Este Lauder,

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Speaker 1: and and and so on. What we're saying is there's

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Speaker 1: some big fish at the top. And as of eighteen,

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Speaker 1: the US was considered and still is considered the most

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Speaker 1: valuable a K profitable beauty personal care market in the world.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen alone, this industry generated eighty nine point five

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Speaker 1: billion dollars just in the US in one year. That's

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Speaker 1: that's incredible. Um. Okay, well, let's talk about what the FDA,

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Speaker 1: the Food and Drug Administration, has to say. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: define cosmetics as quote articles intended to be applied to

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Speaker 1: the human body for cleansing, beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering

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Speaker 1: the appearance without affecting the body's structure or functions. Beautifying

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Speaker 1: and running attractiveness or two different things. Somehow, I don't

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Speaker 1: quite understand the difference, but they seem to be important

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Speaker 1: enough to be listed separately. I don't know. I to me,

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Speaker 1: that feels like one is for you and one is

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Speaker 1: for others. That's I don't know if that's correct or not. Um.

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Speaker 1: But again, we talked about a lot of these things.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about skin creams, perfumes, all that stuff. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but everything to even the shampoo things you may not

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Speaker 1: think about. UM. As weird as this sounds, there's there's

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Speaker 1: ocular cosmetics if you think about like context that you

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Speaker 1: can get specialized and all these other things to make

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Speaker 1: your eyes all black right right or whatever mostly just black. UM,

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting stuff. Before we go too much further,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask, do you guys know two people

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Speaker 1: named Shane Dawson and Jeffrey Starr and or familiar doesn't

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Speaker 1: ring a bell for me? Okay, my wife introduced me

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Speaker 1: to this these uh Jeffrey Starr is a well known

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Speaker 1: cosmetics designer. Uh. In this company manufactures a ton of

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Speaker 1: different cosmetics they put out. I'm gonna use their incorrect terminology.

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Speaker 1: I apologize to anybody who knows this stuff. But they

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Speaker 1: put out a makeup kit called Conspiracy and genuinely had

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Speaker 1: cool design and my wife happened to get one. UM.

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Speaker 1: But they were in crazy demand because these are these

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Speaker 1: are YouTubers. They're like social social media influence influencers whatever

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Speaker 1: that is, UM, and they are so popular. When they

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Speaker 1: got together and put this thing together, it they sold

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Speaker 1: out of everything that broke the Internet a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating the way that that those two worlds are connecting.

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Speaker 1: And we can maybe talk about that a little later.

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Speaker 1: But social media influencers and the cosmetics industry. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you have I was hoping for a second math

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Speaker 1: that you would you would have a show and health

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Speaker 1: segment for us. But I'll just I'll check it out later.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I can go get it. I think she still

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Speaker 1: got it somewhere. I'll go have to look. Well, we'll

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Speaker 1: find it. Maybe maybe they'll sponsor us at some point.

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Speaker 1: Who knows they don't need us. They probably don't know that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they do. But uh, but you're right,

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Speaker 1: there is a fascinating intersection, and this is this industry

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Speaker 1: is all about these fascinating, at times disturbing intersections. I

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Speaker 1: mentioned that liminal space earlier when we talked about oral cosmetics. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's weird, and it goes back to the idea

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Speaker 1: of affecting the body structure or function being efficacious in

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Speaker 1: some physiological way. So any any ingredient used in a

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Speaker 1: cosmetic falls under that f D A definition that that

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Speaker 1: you gave us earlier. But what about products that have

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Speaker 1: a physiological claim? Toothpaste is a weird example. Sometimes toothpaste

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Speaker 1: is a cosmetic, but if toothpaste says that it does

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Speaker 1: a specific thing to alter your body, such as protecting

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Speaker 1: you from cavities or whitening your teeth, then the f

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Speaker 1: d A may classify it as a drug. So people

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Speaker 1: are still working out what this means and when, and

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Speaker 1: and it's an important question. I mean, makeup cosmetics are

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Speaker 1: a vital thing. There are numerous fascinating works on the

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Speaker 1: history of makeup alone. I'm sad we can't dive into

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Speaker 1: more of it. Uh. And there are thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of experts just like the ones you mentioned and back.

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Speaker 1: There innumerable tutorial sites. There are so many people working

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Speaker 1: in this industry or associated with the manufacturer, the sale,

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Speaker 1: the transportation of makeup. But it turns out that makeup

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Speaker 1: itself maybe covering something up. Get it, There may be

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Speaker 1: something sinister beneath the beautiful surface of all that concealer. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it may be concealed. Oh god, we're we have an

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Speaker 1: abundance of puns and embarrassment of makeup on abundance, an abundance. Yes,

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Speaker 1: break out the blush everyone and take some time. Let's

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Speaker 1: all let's all put our faces on as they say,

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Speaker 1: we'll pause for a word from our sponsor and we'll

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Speaker 1: be right back. Here's where it gets crazy. Makeup has problems,

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Speaker 1: no two ways about it. One of the biggest ones

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of ore, a lot of our

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Speaker 1: fellow listeners instantly thought of. As you saw the title

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Speaker 1: for this episode is animals play a big role. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we have some returning tragedies to the stage today.

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Speaker 1: It's foreshadowing. Yeah, animal testing. I mean I think we've

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Speaker 1: we've we've all seen fern Gully, The Last rain Forest.

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Speaker 1: Remember Robin Williams character the bat Batty, who does a

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Speaker 1: really great rap talking about being an animal test subject

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Speaker 1: in laboratories for cosmetic departments. That's the thing. It's a

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Speaker 1: big deal, is the long standing arguments we made that

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Speaker 1: testing makeup ingredients on animals is a necessary evil. Um

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Speaker 1: because you know, imagine the fallout if there was some

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Speaker 1: kind of skin cream that hit the market and then

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Speaker 1: gave people insane hives or rashes or or worse. Um.

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Speaker 1: So this in mind, many of these products have been

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Speaker 1: tested on animals, and Ben correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: We're literally talking about like a lab where somebody puts

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Speaker 1: lipstick on a bunny rabbit. Is that basically? Is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it that? Am I oversimplifying it? What? What does

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Speaker 1: this look like? It's changed a lot over the years,

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Speaker 1: and there are a lot of different examples of it applications,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you don't have to necessarily, like if

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Speaker 1: we're taking lipstick, for example, you don't have to necessarily

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Speaker 1: place it on an animal's lips to see if it

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Speaker 1: does the thing. You can place it just on skin

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Speaker 1: essentially of certain species to see if it's going to

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Speaker 1: have a reaction. Yeah, the testing is much worse than uh,

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Speaker 1: literal lipstick on a pig. Ha ha. That's from my

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Speaker 1: old English teachers and lovers of cliches. Yeah, when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the makeup in the animal world, there are

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Speaker 1: two primary issues. Animal products used as ingredients and animal testing.

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Speaker 1: There's still a big deal. Different countries have their own

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Speaker 1: sets of laws about this. There's not like some U

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Speaker 1: n declaration about whether or not you should test this

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Speaker 1: stuff on animals and how you should do it. In

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Speaker 1: the US, uh, the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act,

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Speaker 1: which is created and overseen by the f d A,

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Speaker 1: prohibits the sale of what they call adulterated cosmetics, but

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Speaker 1: they don't require the animal tests be conducted to demonstrate

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Speaker 1: that a cosmetic is safe. Instead, they kick the responsibility

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Speaker 1: to the manufacturer, saying that the manufacturer has to UH

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Speaker 1: perform whatever testing is necessary. Compare that to a country

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Speaker 1: like China, where the government conducts mandatory animal tests on

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Speaker 1: every single imported cosmetic product, doesn't matter what it is.

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Speaker 1: The government can also conduct animal tests on items that

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Speaker 1: have been pulled from any store shelf. The European Union

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Speaker 1: has had a ban on uh types of animal testing

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Speaker 1: and marketing and things were tested on animals since back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and thirteen, so for seven years. And

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Speaker 1: then there's a laundry list of other countries that fall

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Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle they passed similar laws against animal testing. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're like some states have passed laws, like California or

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Speaker 1: different states in Brazil. So it's all over the place. Now.

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Speaker 1: To answer your question you asked earlier, what kinds of

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Speaker 1: tests are we talking about? Well, what kind of animals

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Speaker 1: are used in testing this? This is gonna bother a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. They're typically cute animals. They're mice, rats, rabbits,

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Speaker 1: guinea pigs, uh and they're they're used because they are

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Speaker 1: mammals and they have similarities with humans broadly speaking. So

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Speaker 1: the idea is that if we expose an animal that's

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Speaker 1: enough like us to a substance, then we'll be able

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Speaker 1: to bring dicked what will possibly happen to a human

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Speaker 1: who is exposed to this substance. So these tests are

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Speaker 1: tests can be pretty gruesome. Like you were talking about

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Speaker 1: Matt's skin and eye irritation test. That's where they'll shave

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Speaker 1: an animal skin and they'll expose its skin to a

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Speaker 1: certain chemical or substance or product. Usually it's the chemical

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Speaker 1: or the substance. This is usually before they get to

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Speaker 1: like the name brand stage and then uh. These substances

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Speaker 1: can also be dripped, like they'll restrain a rabbit for instance,

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Speaker 1: and they'll drip in a substance to its eye, to

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Speaker 1: the idea being that will see how the rabbit's eye

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Speaker 1: reacts and that will teach us what happens to a

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Speaker 1: human eye if somebody gets you know, mascara in their

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Speaker 1: eye or something. Yeah, and that's so that that's what

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Speaker 1: it's testing. If it gets on your skin or just

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Speaker 1: if you're using a normal use, or if it gets

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Speaker 1: in your eyes. But other times they are testing to

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Speaker 1: see what happens if a human ingests this chemical. So

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Speaker 1: if if maybe a child or an adventurous human gets

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Speaker 1: ahold of some of this makeup that has this chemical

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Speaker 1: in it and they just down a whole bunch of it,

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Speaker 1: how much does it take to cause serious harm to

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Speaker 1: this person, to cause what would be considered a poisoning,

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Speaker 1: or to even cause death to this person. So they

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Speaker 1: do it to the animals until it happens. Is it?

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Speaker 1: Animal testing illegal in a lot of places in the

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Speaker 1: States though, right, Yeah, As we said earlier, California is

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Speaker 1: probably the best example of that, But it does, it

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Speaker 1: does go state to state because again the f d

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Speaker 1: A has put the onus of responsibility on the manufacturer

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Speaker 1: to test what you need. And and that's uh, that's

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Speaker 1: how we get to go back to the test. That's

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Speaker 1: how we get things like you're describing that lethal dose test. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This this is similar to those tests you hear about

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Speaker 1: a sugar substitute, for instance, causing cancer and rats, uh

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Speaker 1: and force feeding stuff like at what threshold of ingestion

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Speaker 1: will insert things here give you cancer or cause birth defects?

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Speaker 1: But also like a lot of these companies obviously manufacture

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Speaker 1: their products in other countries, and there are different laws

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Speaker 1: in other countries. And I was just looking around, googling

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Speaker 1: around a little bit, and apparently in China, full on

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Speaker 1: animal testing is is still a thing, and companies like

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Speaker 1: est Lauder, Clinique, Mary kay Um, it's Mabeling brands, you know,

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Speaker 1: big brands, uh, still do full on animal testing in China. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's the law they have to in China. So

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Speaker 1: uh there. You know, you can find a lot of

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Speaker 1: stats on this from various places. Institutions that admittedly have agendas,

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Speaker 1: like the Humane Society, I mean, it's their job to

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Speaker 1: be kind of biased in this regard because they want

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Speaker 1: to they advocate for the humane treatment of animals. So

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Speaker 1: according to the Humane Society, these animals are often killed

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Speaker 1: at the end of a testing process, typically bias phyxiation,

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Speaker 1: having their next broken, or being decapitated. Opponents of animal

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Speaker 1: testing argue one that it's unnecessarily cruel, but they also

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Speaker 1: point out that in many cases, the results of these

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Speaker 1: tests may not be near as accurate as we we

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Speaker 1: might want to believe. Different species respond differently to the

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Speaker 1: same chemicals. You know what, I mean like, you can

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Speaker 1: eat chocolate, but your dog probably shouldn't, right, And dogs

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Speaker 1: and humans are very similar, uh, and so results from

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Speaker 1: these tests may not always be relevant to humans. They

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Speaker 1: can overestimate or more dangerously underestimate possible hazardous effects for people.

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Speaker 1: So at the moment, there are a series of legal

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Speaker 1: and industry initiatives pushing to ban this kind of practice

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Speaker 1: and other related practices with UM. As you can tell

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Speaker 1: by the list of country you mentioned, pretty significant results.

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Speaker 1: And you know this does seem to be a widespread

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Speaker 1: thing where people are uncomfortable with this by and large,

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Speaker 1: UM but you know, outside of even like the pidas

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Speaker 1: and the humane societies of the world, not a good look.

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Speaker 1: I think your average person would probably not be okay

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Speaker 1: with this. But while we're on the subject of animal testing,

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Speaker 1: what about using animals themselves as ingredients? Well, let's I

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Speaker 1: do want to be fair and point out one one

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Speaker 1: thing we missed that we would be remiss if we

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Speaker 1: didn't say this. Proponents of animal testing do have an

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Speaker 1: historically solid argument, which is, isn't it better to harm

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Speaker 1: a non human animal than to risk harming a human being?

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Speaker 1: I think that's a a debate that I would have

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Speaker 1: a very hard time siding with and in it's not

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Speaker 1: because that my dog just barked. I love my dog.

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Speaker 1: I would never allow anything to happen in tour like that,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want anything to happen like this to

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Speaker 1: any other animals. Um, we're just gonna add the dog

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Speaker 1: barking as color was dr Bankman. It's it's also like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could also throw into the argument, it's

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Speaker 1: not like these are life saving drugs. These are essentially

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Speaker 1: what some might consider frivolous or extra or things that

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Speaker 1: are nice to have. But do we really need this stuff?

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Speaker 1: You know? I don't know many would say yes, God,

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Speaker 1: yes we need this, we need this. But you know,

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Speaker 1: but but I guess what I'm saying is internally just

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Speaker 1: as a I'm just gonna keep it in because it

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Speaker 1: really does make sense. Um, it does make sense to me.

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Speaker 1: The art the proponents of animal testing, their arguments made

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Speaker 1: complete sense to me. And I don't know how you

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Speaker 1: could make sure a chemical or a product is safe

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Speaker 1: unless you had that information, um, you know, for poison control,

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Speaker 1: for response, especially if you're thinking about a child that

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Speaker 1: ingests something like, how do you get that data without

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Speaker 1: this and I guess that's my big question um to

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Speaker 1: anybody who is completely against animal testing, which I think

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Speaker 1: I am, but I don't understand how we get that

426
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: data without it, So it's like a necessary evil argument

427
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: again there, Yeah, and and so this this kind of

428
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: why you know, while we're on the subject of animals,

429
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: because you set us up here, you know there are

430
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: numerous ingredients from animals that are used. And this is

431
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: a whole other uh ball of palm aide. I guess

432
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: because things changed since the age of Cleopatra and Beatle lipstick.

433
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: But maybe they didn't change as much as we might assume,

434
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: because let's consider people who practice a vegan lifestyle. By lifestyle,

435
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: we mean people who want to avoid what they see

436
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: as exploitation of animals in any possible sense. If you

437
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 1: practice this lifestyle, then it's crucial to know which types

438
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: of makeup or which brands of personal care products use

439
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: animal ingredients. And these ingredients this is what I was

440
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: talking about with a returning star. These ingredients include things

441
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: that may not sound like they come from animals when

442
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: you read them in like your list of ingredients. Retinal

443
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: is found in anti aging products. Estrogen. This is the

444
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: weird fact that I learned for today. Estrogen is obtained

445
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: often by extracting urine from pregnant horses. Doesn't really, I guess,

446
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: hurt the horses. It's just, uh, it probably weirds them out.

447
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: You know, I can understand being weirded out by that. Uh.

448
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: Ambergris is one you know, that's a waxy substance the

449
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: lines the stomachs of whales. And it's not used for

450
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: like your skin. It's used because it helps scent stay

451
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: in perfume. That's and that's a that's an historical thing

452
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: that's still used to day. A returning guest is squaling,

453
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: which we mentioned in an earlier episode. We're talking about

454
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: possible coronavirus vaccine and the deaths of sharks because squalenes

455
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: used in vaccines. We mentioned it's used in cosmetics. It's

456
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: extracted from the livers of sharks in a way that

457
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: is not super pleasant for the sharks. Uh. And then

458
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: it's added to I makeup and lipstick. Yeah, it's really strange.

459
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: And those are not all of the animal products that

460
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: can be found in in some cosmetics. Yeah, no way, um. Yeah,

461
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: And and and as you can tell just by what

462
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: Ben said, I mean these can be derived in a

463
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: lot of different ways, from extracting urine or from extracting

464
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: essentially livers. Right, it's um, there's a there's a wide

465
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: range of how much harm you're actually doing to an

466
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: animal individually in the process to get it. But also

467
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: when you're using an animal as a product like this,

468
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: it generally doesn't bode well for the animals well being afterwards,

469
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: no matter how you're getting it. Yeah, And the burden

470
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: of education is on you as the consumer. It's on

471
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: us as the end users. You're not going to uh,

472
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: You're you're not gonna go to your local uh makeup

473
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: store or something and see like, uh see an advertisement

474
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: for foundation that says we proudly use animal products. Here

475
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: they are with a picture of the animal or something

476
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: on there. That's that's just not the kind of pr

477
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: they're looking for. Now with more sally now more than

478
00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: percent more squaling, uh and uh. You can, however, be

479
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: empowered by your own research. You can find multiple resources online,

480
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: multiple studies and databases indicating whether animals are used in

481
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: a given product, and companies are transparent parent about this.

482
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: You just have to ask, uh and they'll you know,

483
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: you'll be able to find usually whether this is for

484
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: testing purposes or whether it's as a source of an ingredient.

485
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: The testing purpose thing, again, as as I said earlier,

486
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: depends on the laws of a given region. So because

487
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: of that, because of this pastiche of laws, this can

488
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: all be completely legal, it can all be above board.

489
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't. Uh, it's not like some cartel conspiracy necessarily.

490
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: And because of that, the decision to choose the cosmetics

491
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: you want to use is it remains a personal rather

492
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: than a legal matter. But regardless of what sort ingredients

493
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: or testing or involved makeup, and the fashion industry overall

494
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: has another secret, quite a dirty one, and that's pollution. Yes,

495
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: been literally dirty. M I love just that we're making

496
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: these concrete connections to words in this episode, and they

497
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: are puns, but they're also just exactly what we're talking

498
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: about here. Um, I guess we just have to talk

499
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: about something. What happens when an industry starts out as

500
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: pretty small, right that It's not like it's not like

501
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: the coal industry or the oil industry began as a

502
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: giant behemoth, right, or any other industry anything. Really, it

503
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: always starts starts small and it has to, that's just

504
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: the nature of it. But it begins to balloon in

505
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: balloon and more people are doing and more people are manufacturing,

506
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: more people are enjoying whatever the service or the product is,

507
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: and it just at some point it gets too big, right,

508
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: And when it's once it once, it becomes too big.

509
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: And that's that's my judgment, right, too big. Um, there

510
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: are going to be negative effects on everyone, because there's

511
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: going to be a negative effect on environments. You know,

512
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: both in in small areas right and controlled areas, you're

513
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: gonna have really bad effects there, but also overall to

514
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: the entire planet, there could be negative effects. Yes. Funny,

515
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: even in like you know, podcasting, we always talk about

516
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: scaling and like you know, starting from a smaller company

517
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: and then launching way more shows and etcetera, etcetera. And

518
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, oh, we're kind of lucky because

519
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: we're in sort of a zero pollution business. We don't

520
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: make products that like can end up in landfills. But

521
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: even that, like you know that when you scale on

522
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: that level, you start to having to add more server

523
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: capacity or like more computers, and then that can lead

524
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: to ways downstream. It's just interesting anytime. Just to your point, Matt,

525
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: that an industry balloons in this way, there's gonna be

526
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: collateral damage. And with the fashion industry, where things are

527
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: so seasonal, it's very easy to generate a massive amount

528
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: of waste, you know, on the clothing side of it alone,

529
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: let alone the come be cos maad X, the packaging,

530
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: all the plastics. We've been talking about that too much lately,

531
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: but it's absolutely a thing. Just to put this out

532
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: there before we move on. I would say that depending

533
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: on how you are listening to our voices right now,

534
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: we could be said to be creating noise pollution just

535
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: saying this is true, right because so many people uh

536
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: only only rolled down local main street with this going

537
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: through the subwoofers. So is that you rolling down Rodeo

538
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: Drive listening to this right now? Good shotgun? Yeah, So

539
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: so this is uh, this is a good point, Matt.

540
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: I would also say, we're talking to the point about podcasting.

541
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: We're talking about hidden cost right as it was often

542
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: as it would often be described in economics, Uhid, environmental

543
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: cost of something like podcasting would be, uh, the fact

544
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: that the technology is reliant on rare earth metals, you know, Uh,

545
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: the both for the creators and the audience. Uh, the

546
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: fact that plastic is used in the devices, the fact

547
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: that we're powered by electricity, right, and where is the

548
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: electricity generated? You know, you're right, And and all the

549
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 1: servers that are holding all the files that are being

550
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: sent across the world. Boy, there's this is the worse

551
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: than we thought all and the world of cosmetics, in

552
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: the world of fashion is no different. You know, there

553
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: is a really compelling argument that, uh, and I don't

554
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: want to sound jaded, but that an industry passed, any

555
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: industry past a certain threshold of size, uh, does endanger

556
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: what we call the commons, right, the public things and resources. So,

557
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: like we said, plastic, the personal care industry is like

558
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: ballpark five hundred billion dollars worth of stuff a year.

559
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: And and think about think about how much it relies

560
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: on plastic. Shampoo, body wash, lipstick, mess scary cases, deodorant.

561
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: You don't see this stuff in a ton of like

562
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: glass containers. The vast majority of these products are more

563
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: often than not sold in plastic containers, not all, but

564
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: a ton of them. Yeah, it's sort of the same

565
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: as with recycled plastic. We talked about how Um, it

566
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: becomes you pay a premium for getting goods made of

567
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: recycled plastic because it costs more to make. And it's

568
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: the same with more luxury goods. I mean perfume, like

569
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: fancy bottle of perfume from Gucci or you know, something

570
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 1: like that will still come in a glass bottle. Uh,

571
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: fancy soaps that you get bespoke type soaps on Pinterest

572
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: or other sites like that. You know they're gonna come

573
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: in bars and they're in crazy shapes and have like

574
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: wood chips inside of them and stuff rexfoliation. But yeah,

575
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: mass produced, that's the beauty of mass production. That is

576
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: for everybody. Everyone can afford to have these things, or

577
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: maybe in the past perfume would only be available for

578
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: those with lots of money. Um. But in order to

579
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: do that, you have to make the packaging cheaper and

580
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: easier to mass produce. Yeah. And you know, a lot

581
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: of a lot of what's seen as luxurious today, there's

582
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,959
Speaker 1: a bit of nostalgia to it. There's a retro factor.

583
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: We're selling a concept as much as we're selling a product, right. Ultimately,

584
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: all advertising is selling an idea more so than a

585
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: tangible object or even a service. So that stuff you're

586
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: describing hearkens back to the not too distant past when

587
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: soap came in a bar form and perfume was luxurious.

588
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: Someone had to go out and scrape the inside of

589
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: a whale stomach. Yeah, they also have some class glass

590
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: or metal bottle. Well, no metal, but I have glass bottles. Uh.

591
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: And and hair care was packaged, you know, in little

592
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: tins and little jars. And now you can see you

593
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: can still see that stuff because it does it does

594
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: feel more elevated. Right, This isn't just your your plastic

595
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: store brand. Uh, shampoo or flippowder or whatever. I don't

596
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: know if flipowder is a cosmetic, it's probably a drug

597
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: if it fixes something. I want to see more glass

598
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: shampoo bottles just like up the antie when you're using

599
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: it in the shower, Like, do not drop this shampoo?

600
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: That's right? Wow, whenever having the soap on a rope

601
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: to guys, I think they we should bring that back.

602
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: Would that be a nostalgia thing? I'm pretty sure it's

603
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: still available in several novelty stores and places across the country.

604
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: Are they shaped like naughty things? Oh? I don't. I

605
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: don't know what they're shaped like I just know there's

606
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: ropes with soaps. There's a shop in the United Kingdom

607
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: that for some reason was obsessed with a number of

608
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: years ago called Labor and Wait, and they they sell

609
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: this kind of nostalgic stuff. They sell like cardboard boxes

610
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: of soap flakes and things like that. But but to

611
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: your point, to your point, Matt, this, I didn't even

612
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: think about that. That is such a compelling reason for

613
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: the use of plastick and shampoo bottle. I mean the

614
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 1: household injuries alone, honestly, so many people would hurt themselves.

615
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: But but but I totally here with the tin thing, right,

616
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: that's that's coming back. I've seen in several places where

617
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: it's a shampoo bar essentially. It'll come in a tin

618
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: or something, or it'll just be a shampoo bar that

619
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: stand alone. You put it in your hair, Okay, I

620
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: didn't mean just rub the bar across your head. You

621
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: gotta get a good lad. That going get a good

622
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: lad and then yeah, or like you know, palm aids

623
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 1: and stuff. Things that are sort of retro a lot

624
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: of times will come in tins or or or glass

625
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: jars because it's part of the vibe it's part of

626
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: like the the optics of the product. You know, again,

627
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: we're selling an idea as much as we're selling a product.

628
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: And how how did how did we get here? Well?

629
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: After World War One, the US became the most prolific

630
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: producer of personal care beauty products and also the biggest consumer.

631
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: And part of that is, uh, not that the US

632
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: was super special or had the you know, some federal

633
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: mandate to become this titan. It's because Europe was recovering

634
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: from a massive war, and things like, uh, things like

635
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: popularizing different esoteric or niche beauty products took a little

636
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: bit of an understandable back seat. Uh. There's a there's

637
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: a great article by writer named Alejandra Burunda in National

638
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: Geographic that examines the history here and and also the

639
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: rise of plastic. Here's a quote. During the war, the

640
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: military had imposed strict hygiene codes as a way to

641
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: prevent disease from spreading amongst the troops, and when those

642
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: soldiers returned home, they brought with them in grained habits

643
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: of washing, shaving, and toothbrushing. By the mid nineteen twenties,

644
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: a whole industry of personal care popped up in the

645
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: Lever company, which would later become Unilever, the major multinational

646
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: personal care product company, kicked off an ad campaign outlining

647
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: the damage body odor could do to one's career and

648
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: social prospects. What does that remind me of? What does

649
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: that prep Yeah, bernh These doctors say, the body odor

650
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: that you're sporting is really not going to be great

651
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: for you. So you should your job opportunity stink literally, yeah,

652
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: somewhere around here right right, And uh in what I

653
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 1: love about the that's written is there's this there's this

654
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: strange kind of implicit implication that before people came back

655
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: from World War One, no one was washing and shaving

656
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: or brushing their teeth. That's not true, but but this

657
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: military regimen, you know, became popularized and normalized. And at

658
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: that very same time, remember again, Hollywood is exploding. So

659
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: now we see these actors that we love, we worship,

660
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: these modern celebrities. We want to look like them. We

661
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: want to know what they use for a face cream,

662
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: we want to know what, uh you know, what they

663
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: put on their armpits before they go to a job interview.

664
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: So it's big business. And then when plastics come out,

665
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: this enables the industry to accelerate even more. Of course,

666
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: the beauty industry immediately jumps on plastic. How could you not.

667
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: It's amazing for this sort of stuff. It's durable, it's light,

668
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: it can Uh, as someone said early, you're it can scale.

669
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: So uh. That trend continues. Honestly, that trend continues largely

670
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: unabated in the modern day. There are steps. People are

671
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: taking steps to slow it down, of course and look

672
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: towards sustainability. And we'll find out why they're doing that

673
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: in just a minute. And it's a depressing answer, but yes,

674
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: plastic skiing because it works. Yeah, And it's not to

675
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: say this might not change over the next couple of

676
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: years because there, as we've seen, you know, with plastics,

677
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: there are some large players taking steps to combat the

678
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: plastic problem, like we talked about on that episode and

679
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: with Lego um pivoting to using paper to contain their

680
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: tiny plastic pieces. Yes, but it's step in the right direction.

681
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: But in the cosmetics universe, Loureale is a giant. UM

682
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: is aiming to make a of their packaging reusable, refillable

683
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: which I love, and or compostable um. And they also

684
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: are I wouldn't go so far as to stay committing,

685
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: but they would. Essentially, their goal is to source fifty

686
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: of that packaging from recycled materials. That's really good news.

687
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: And in addition to plastic, there are other cosmetic and

688
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: personal care products that actually can contain toxic chemicals that

689
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: the environment doesn't know what to do with. They can't

690
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: break them down, they they can create runoff that goes

691
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: into water supplies, um drain into rivers, infiltrate the water system.

692
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: It's bad news. So a whole another side of of this,

693
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: of this discussion, and that's just one of the many

694
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: aspects um that are difficult when it comes to pollution

695
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: and the world of fashion and cosmetics. And we're gonna

696
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: get into more of those when we returned from a

697
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: quick sponsor break. Yes, we've returned. There's yeah. There is

698
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: another facet to this, to the world of fashion and

699
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: our own beyond makeup, and it's one that many of

700
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: us have probably heard about in recent years. It's the

701
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: idea often reported that the fashion industry clothing in particular,

702
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: generates a great deal of pollution and waste. You may

703
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: recall hearing in particular breathless somewhat hyperbolic headlines claiming the

704
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: fashion industry is the second most bloting industry in the world.

705
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: There's like oil and then the clothes you like, and

706
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: that's a bummer, right. Uh, But but to find the truth,

707
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: we did some digging and there's a there's a great

708
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: article by an author named Alden Wicker writing for an

709
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: outfit called Eco Cult, And Uh, what what I love

710
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: about this if if Alden you happen to be listening,

711
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: is that you specifically say, don't go quoting me and

712
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: say that Alden said this on Eco Cult. But we

713
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: looked at your math and it's solid and it makes

714
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: an important distinction. Here. There's a thing called the Global

715
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: Fashion Agenda. In they partnered with a consulting group called

716
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: the Boston Consulting Group, and they wanted to do some

717
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: analysis and see whether there was truth to that claim.

718
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 1: They published this thing called the Pulse of the Fashion

719
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 1: Industry Report, and in that they found that the fashion

720
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: industry itself was responsible for the emission of one point

721
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 1: seven billion tons of c O two in. But that

722
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 1: is only four point three percent of the overall thirty

723
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: nine point nine billion tons of carbon emissions that the

724
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: US overall put out, so that's very far from second.

725
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: That makes it the tenth most polluting industry. Other things

726
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: beat at agriculture, transportation, all of all of the Captain

727
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: plane at villains. Basically, I I apologize when I did

728
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: not get a chance to look at this article. Is

729
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: it just relating to the US? Do we know? Or

730
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: is it is it global? Like? Um? Because I'm just

731
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: imagining all this fashion industry and all the you know,

732
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: different different plants that are producing all the stuff that's

733
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: used in fashion that are across the world in very

734
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: specific places. Because I'm it just makes you wonder if

735
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: they're looking at emissions that are actually taking place on

736
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: US soil, or if they're looking at all of the

737
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: emissions that the industry gives out. And there's that intersection again, right,

738
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: because these are global supply chains. If we look at

739
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: the emissions just in the US, and that's an excellent

740
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: question where that stat is centered, Uh, then we're not

741
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: looking at the emissions made by factories where many of

742
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 1: these pieces of clothing are manufactured. Uh, this industry, there

743
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 1: is there is another there's a more global snap snapshot,

744
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: a snack shot. Sorry guys, Uh, there's Uh, let's keep

745
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: it ahead. I like snack shot, start using that, but

746
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: there's there's a more global snapshot here. In August of

747
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 1: this year. Just last month, the same outfit, the Global

748
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: Fashion Agenda, partnered with another returning guest to our show,

749
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: the consulting group Mackenzie, which is a very powerful, very weird,

750
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 1: scary thing. Efficient efficient. Yes, yes, they are efficient. Uh.

751
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: They got together and they did a new estimate. They

752
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: calculated a new estimate, and they found that the fashion

753
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: industry contributes to overall four percent of greenhouse gas in

754
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: in the overall in the world. And there's a thing

755
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: that makes these numbers weird and significant. That's what we've

756
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: been kind of day seen around. The fashion industry is

757
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: an an aggregate industry. It's it's a culmination of multiple

758
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: other related industries, some that are obvious and some not

759
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: so much. That's right. I mean, think about the supply

760
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 1: chain of what goes into fashion. You know, there's agriculture involved.

761
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: We've got cotton, agricultural product. We've got uh, the fossil

762
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: fuels that are required to ship these raw materials to

763
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: the factories where there then spun into the material that

764
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: is then used to actually make the clothing. UM. Polyester

765
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: a durable fabric uh kind of maligned, but it's used

766
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: a lot, even if you don't know it because it's durable,

767
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 1: but it's made from plastic that's an additive in and electricity, leather,

768
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 1: you know, livestock is involved in part of the supply chain.

769
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 1: And there's just so many other industries that really play

770
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: like shipping all of this stuff that play a huge

771
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: role in here. And there's waste at every step of

772
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: the process. UM. So in terms of waste, the fashion

773
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: industry is responsible for ninety two million tons of solid

774
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: waste per year and that's across the entire planet. And

775
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: that represents four percent of the two point one two

776
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: billion tons of waste dumped each year. And that's even

777
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: more than incredibly toxic E waste who would be like

778
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: electronic components that are discarded uh and more than twice

779
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: as much as supermarkets uh create food waste. UM. And

780
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: that one in particular never sits right with me. And

781
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: I have a thing to bring up when we get

782
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: to UM some of the actual waste of products that

783
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: comes from the fashion industry. Yeah, there's definitely stuff there,

784
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: you guys. I never thought about plastic buttons and components

785
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: for garments and Chloe, I never thought about the amount

786
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: of plastic that exists just due to those things. Think

787
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: about that, the shipping constant container of Lego parts that's

788
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: spilled into the ocean, you know, I mean buttons would

789
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: be probably shipped to be a whole shipping container full

790
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: of millions of buttons and tiny little you know what

791
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: else would they be? A little you know, a little

792
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: kutman is a little like like highlight things like plastic zippers, aglets. Uh,

793
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, which is a totally unnecessary word that I

794
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: love in English? Is that what that has been? The

795
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: little piece at the end of hoodie strings? That's correct? Yea.

796
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: So that's that's my show and tell. Not quite a

797
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: conspiracy makeup kit, but you know we're working semi live. Uh,

798
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: you're right, right, right, Uh. Most people listening to this

799
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 1: are probably wearing some form of plastic on the person.

800
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: You know, this stuff is everywhere, as we said, so

801
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: that's kind of the lay of the land. And so

802
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: our next question should logically be what are cosmetic and

803
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: fashion manufacturers doing to address these issues? To their credit,

804
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: multiple manufacturers have taken steps to combat one or more

805
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: of the specific issues described above. Makers of cosmetics have

806
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: responded to some of the demands of what are called

807
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: cruelty free movements, you know, and large clothing companies have

808
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: meticulously analyzed their supply chains. I'll say it often in

809
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: response to an outcry about exploitative labor or you know,

810
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: dodgy environmental practices. But it's good. It means your voice

811
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: matters right right, right again, it's empowerment. Uh. And in

812
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: some cases they have instituted sustainability programs of one sort

813
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: or another, like Loureal's goal to use more recycled substances. However,

814
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: at the same time, there's another factor at play. Some

815
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: companies some of the same come but he's actually or

816
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: accelerating this trend of pollution due in part to a

817
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: phenomenon I think everybody was waiting to hear us say,

818
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: fast fashion, the the idea that you can you don't

819
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,240
Speaker 1: have to buy something and keep it for twenty five years.

820
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: You can buy the hottest look of that season, of

821
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: that moment, and then you can move on to the next.

822
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: It will be affordable, it will be disposal. That's right,

823
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: because the previous version of that would have been luxury

824
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 1: goods that were so expensive there would be a resale

825
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: market for them. Even if it's not you, You're gonna

826
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: sell it, you know, for hundreds of dollars potentially if

827
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 1: it's like a Gucci item, then maybe it's two seasons old,

828
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,240
Speaker 1: but there's still a market for that, whereas like something

829
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: from Zara or H and M. You know, less of

830
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: an aftermarket for stuff like that. But that's the part

831
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: that drives me insane. I mean, every year, the world

832
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: consumes more than eighty billion items of clothing, and the

833
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 1: average individual in the US toss is eighty two pounds

834
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: of textile goods out each year, which adds up to

835
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: eleven million tons for the entire US. But like, in

836
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: the same way that waste, food waste makes no sense

837
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: to me because there there's the organizations that should be

838
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,720
Speaker 1: able to funnel that to people that really need it.

839
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: Shouldn't that also be the case for a lot of this, uh,

840
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: clothing waste? Oh god, yeah, I was thinking about putting

841
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: this in or if we should save it for a

842
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: different episode, but it's it's it's a terrible point and

843
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 1: a very good one. Uh. A lot of times that

844
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: clothing that you donate if you live in a Western country,

845
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: that is supposed to go help other people who need clothing.

846
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: A lot of times that has a negative effect on

847
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: the population people are attempting to help. It can kill

848
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: local textile businesses because they can't compete with palette after

849
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: palette of free T shirts and pants and so on.

850
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 1: It's just it's the sustainable price versus virtually free. And

851
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff, by the way, doesn't get

852
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: straight up donated to people in need. It goes to

853
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: someone who sells it. So there's there are different rent

854
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: seekers and opportunists at at every corner of this and

855
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: and and you're right there, there is a lot of waste.

856
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: One time, I don't want to get too personal here,

857
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: but one time in our fair metropolis of Atlanta, I

858
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 1: almost got arrested for giving away bread, uh that that

859
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: I got day old bread from a bakery. I was

860
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 1: walking around like some kind of cut rate late summer

861
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 1: Santa Claus with a big old plastic bag of old

862
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: day old croissants and facasha and so on, and handing

863
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: it out to people who wanted bread and uh, and

864
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 1: the police found me. What do they say to you?

865
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 1: You have to have a license to give away bread. Yeah, man,

866
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 1: if it's if it's a food product. There are now

867
00:55:56,239 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: crazy regulations and stipulations. I might be poisoning people. I

868
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: don't have any kind of like health inspection, you know

869
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: what I mean. So I guess I guess it makes sense.

870
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: Been thinking about doing that right now, just having a

871
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: bag of bighetts and instead of you know, doing things

872
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 1: that you know, well known comedians talking about with bags

873
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: of bighetts, you are just taking them around and just

874
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 1: handing them to people, even if you've got gloves on,

875
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: even if you're masked up. I'm just trying to imagine

876
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: that I just wanted to walk around with snacks and

877
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: I didn't think about it, you know. So it's technically

878
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: illegal to like give someone your left over our food

879
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: or something like if you have, you know, a doggie

880
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: bag and then the homeless individual ask you for money

881
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: and instead you say, here, take my food. Is that

882
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: Could you get in trouble for doing that? That's a

883
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: good question. I would like to think that most people

884
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't stop you from doing that because it's just a

885
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: basic gesture of human kindness. Maybe they would stop you

886
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: if it were if like there were reports of someone

887
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: purposefully poisoning people that way, and they were on the lookout.

888
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: But I don't think anybody's gotten stopped. You may have

889
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: been told perhaps don't feed these people, or you're not

890
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 1: helping them, you're accelerating a problem or something, but I

891
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: don't I don't see someone getting arrested for it, you know, Yeah, ye,

892
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: arrested seems a little harsh, but maybe find or warned

893
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: unless you're you're a chronic giver of your food. Oh yeah, well,

894
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: I guess it just depends on where you are, Like

895
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: what city, I bet you it changes, um city, country,

896
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: local area and all that. Let let us know your

897
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 1: stance on that, folks, Let us know your stance on

898
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: whether or not there are I give your own food,

899
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: give out your food laws on the books where in

900
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: your neck of the global woods. I do want to

901
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: say that that that statistic we just mentioned the idea

902
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: like a lot of people listening in to the US

903
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: are thinking, did I really throw out eighty two pounds

904
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 1: of clothing last year? We have to consider Yeah, that

905
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: average sounds crazy because we're talking about an average of

906
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: three eight something million people, So they're probably you know,

907
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: like any other average of that size. There's a very

908
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 1: small group at the top that is just like, why

909
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: would you wear the same clothes twice? What am I

910
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: a farmer? You know? People like there There are people

911
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: who live very different lives than most of the other people.

912
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: And then there are people on the other end of

913
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: the spectrum who are like, why would I own two shirts?

914
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: I have one Torso there's there's a lot of variants between.

915
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: But what's happening in in a way that's affecting everybody

916
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: in that span everybody who buys clothing, is that just

917
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: like the Just just like when the price of mirrors

918
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: dropped and they became more affordable, the price of what's

919
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: regarded as high fashion is dropping. That's a good thing,

920
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: it would seem for consumers. It means we hand buy

921
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,959
Speaker 1: more stuff, and so we do. In fact, we buy

922
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: four more stuff like this than we did years ago.

923
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: And we don't wear it forever, of course, and it

924
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: doesn't magically disappear just because we can't see it. We're adults,

925
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: we have object permanence. We know things exist outside of

926
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: our vision. This stuff all goes somewhere, yeah, it does.

927
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: And just remember that dropping price of your fashion has

928
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: a great effect on your pockets, but it has a

929
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: terrible effect on the people attempting to manufacture it so

930
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: quickly in all of those places across the world who

931
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: are furiously trying to make as many pairs of pants

932
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: as possible as they can for almost nothing. So then

933
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: what should consumers do? Should we Should we posse up

934
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: and say we're going to collectively support more sustainable supply chains,

935
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: even if it's more expensive. Should we abby our government leaders,

936
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: as you point out Matt as an excellent observation that

937
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: does that does result and change, you know. Or should

938
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: we just now this is tough to say in a

939
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: capitalist economy. Should we just buy fewer things? Should we

940
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:19,640
Speaker 1: just buy less stuff? I don't know. You can't do that.

941
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: I can't do that. You gotta buy everything, buy more

942
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 1: things that that Amazon Prime account you've got is just

943
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: sitting there waiting America the fire sale. Right, everything must go. Uh,

944
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: here's here's the fact of the matter. So companies are companies.

945
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: They're going to follow the most profitable business model. So logically,

946
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: these problems are a type of stuff. They don't want

947
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: you to know until solving these problems becomes more profitable

948
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: than ignoring them. And that's again, that's not to say

949
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: fashion companies are some kind of League of evil mutants,

950
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: league of well dressed supervillains or something. It's just that

951
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,919
Speaker 1: your favorite fashion line is like any other business, They're

952
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: gonna ultimately follow wherever the bottom line leads. And there

953
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 1: really is no easy answer, as we alluded to earlier,

954
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: when just thinking about something like animal testing. That's one

955
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: tiny little aspect of this. All of these are our

956
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 1: debates really, and I think that's why important, why it's

957
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 1: important for us to talk about them. So we don't

958
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: want the conversation to end here. We don't want this

959
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: to just be you know, something that Ben and Nolan

960
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 1: I talked about and you and Paul listen to Mission control.

961
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: Of course, um, we wanted to be you know, let's

962
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: come up with some great ideas. Let's talk about this stuff.

963
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: You can begin the conversation with us or just amongst

964
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: you know, friend maybe family member, just talk about some

965
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: of this stuff. If you want to talk to us,

966
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: you can reach us on social media on Twitter and

967
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: Facebook we are Conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram we are Conspiracy

968
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: Stuff Show. And if you would like to uh talk

969
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: to us in semi person. Then please give us a

970
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 1: call on our own personal bath phone. That's one eight

971
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: three three std w y t K. I like that

972
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: reverb met and uh, you have three minutes. Let's know

973
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: what's on your mind. Anything goes. Just let us know

974
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: whether you are comfortable with us using your voice, sand

975
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 1: or name on the air. And if you don't want

976
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: to do that stuff, you can head on over to

977
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. That's where you will

978
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: find videos, hopefully from this very podcast. Uh, we shall see.

979
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 1: There's gonna be tons of videos there. It's gonna be

980
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: mostly us at least in the near future, talking like this,

981
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: but with cameras so you can look at us and

982
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: we can hang out that way. But there are other

983
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: surprises coming to so I don't know. Just make sure

984
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: you subscribe and tell your friends. Okay, subscribe, tell your friends,

985
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: leave a friendly comment in the comments. Uh, and take

986
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: that same attitude and and bring it to iTunes and

987
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: leave us a nice review in the iTunes store. Really

988
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: great way to help people discover the show and kind

989
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: of up the profile of it in the magical Apple algorithm. Um.

990
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: You can also find us online. Here's where it gets crazy.

991
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: Are delightful Facebook group. Yeah, and uh, you know, yes,

992
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna be honest. We're a little old school. We

993
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: still call it iTunes, just call a Apple podcast. I

994
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: don't know, so it's a learning curve. Yeah, but while

995
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 1: you're on the internet. If you hate phone calls, you

996
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: get it. You hate social media. We also clearly get

997
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 1: that you can always contact us, regardless of the time

998
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: and day, regardless of what you're wearing. Uh, we want

999
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: to hear from you. You can hit us up at

1000
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: our good old fashioned email address where we are conspiracy

1001
01:03:44,960 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Yeah. Stuff they don't want

1002
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: you to know is a production of I heart Radio.

1003
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i

1004
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

1005
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.