1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Before we start, I want to let you know that 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: this episode contains descriptions of alleged sexual abuse. In the 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: beginning was the word, and the word was with God, 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: and in silence the Word of God is pronounced. Ellie 5 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: Anastasia Demidova was a nun with the Missionaries of Charity. 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: Until he now uses he him pronounced and mostly goes 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: by the name Ellie, but he asked that we refer 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 1: to him as Ellie Anastasia. Anastasia is the name he 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: used when he was a sister in the MCS, so 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: that's what we'll do. Ellie Anastasia always loved silence. Praying 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: in silence brought him closer to God. He's found of 12 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: a quote from Mother Teresa. In the silence, God speaks. 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: It is not the empty silence, silence field with the 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: presence presence something which is greater than human being, then universe, 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: than anything else, the presence of something which is untouchable. 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: But now silence is painful. Since he left the Missionaries 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: of Charity, he avoids it. So I guess he leaves 18 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: a television on when he's at home, especially at night, 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: to make some kind of noise. Why do you think 20 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: silence is hard because it comes back. The mmur is back. 21 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: Maybe the most probably night is connected to the time 22 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: when everything was happening. This anxiety again comes and the 23 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: memories comes back. Never Never, I can sleep in silence 24 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: from Rococo Punch and I Hurt Radio. This is the turning. 25 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: I'm Erica Lance Part seven silence. Um, all right, I'm 26 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: just gonna press record on my end. Let's see so 27 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: your headphones are plugged in, right, Yeah. When we video chat, 28 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia smiles a lot in this earnest almost shy 29 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: way testing testing. Yeah. Ellie Anastasia is thirty three years old. 30 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: He's originally from Russia. There's the sweetness that radiates from 31 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: him when he talks. He always wears a cap on 32 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: his head with all his hair tucked into it. Today, 33 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia calls himself a human rights defender. He advocates 34 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: for the LGBTQ community and abuse victims. But back he 35 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: was twenty six years old and he was a pastilant 36 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: in the Missionaries of Charity. He was stationed in West Bengal, 37 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: India and a city culture Sarah. It's a small city 38 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: by Indian standards, about three people even though they were 39 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: in a city, ali Anastasia says, the empty house felt isolated, 40 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: like they were living off the map. There weren't many 41 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 1: Christians in the area, and without cars, they had to 42 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: walk two hours to get to a church for Mass 43 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: on Sunday. No television, no ragio, no news in general 44 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: in the city. We never knew what was happening. It's 45 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: very hot. Sometimes it is horrible raining, a lot of 46 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: monkeys just throwing everything around you. Despite the isolation and 47 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: the monkeys that tore up the MC's garden, Elianastasia loved 48 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: being there. I was so happy that my aim was 49 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: just I want to serve God. I love God. I 50 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: just want to live a proper life and to pray 51 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: and to love the poor and soul. He asked his 52 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: fellow sisters how to say words in Bengali so he 53 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: could talk to the people who lived there. Please teach 54 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: me how to tell him God loves you. I have 55 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: to tell people about love. I was just happy person. 56 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: He remembers the first time he met his mistress, the 57 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: nun in charge of his spiritual formation and day to 58 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: day life. The mistress was also the superior of the house. 59 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: Usually those positions are separate, so it was like the 60 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: mistress was both Elie Anastasia's boss and his boss's boss. 61 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: Something control was just frightening me. Maybe it was just 62 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: psychological because my vocations dependent on their first person, or 63 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, but Elie Anastasia told me after he'd 64 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: been there a couple of weeks, the mistress, who are 65 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: not naming, started showing him special attention. She ate meals 66 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: with him, just the two of them. She talked about 67 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: mutual acquaintances, she empathized with challenges Eli Anastasia had faced 68 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: in the past. In one conversation, his mistress said she'd 69 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: received a message from the Virgin Mary that Mary told 70 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: her to become Elie Anastasia's spiritual mother, his personal mentor 71 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: and guide. Elie Anastasia showed us a note he says 72 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: he received from his mistress. It says, my dear little 73 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: spiritual child, thank you for accepting me as your spiritual mum, 74 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: and then mourns this note is only for you. All 75 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: of this seemed strange, given MC rules against close friendship 76 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: and special attention, but Ellie Anastasia didn't question it. It 77 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: wasn't his place to question. Then, one evening, they were 78 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: in the sacristy, a room off the chapel. They were alone. 79 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia's mistress asked him to sit next to her 80 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 1: on a stool. Then the mistress stood up and pulled 81 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: Elie Anastasia's head to her belly. She held it there. 82 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: She uttered these phrases like she was soothing him. Mother medic, 83 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: You need so much attention, you need special attention and care. 84 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: And like I'm seeking at what's going on? Why she's 85 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: doing like that? Because it was lasting half or forty minutes. 86 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: That that was so long. How to react? She's superior, 87 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: she's mistress. What she's doing, I don't understand. I'm just 88 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: praying this gut, let it stop. What is going on? 89 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: Around this time, Elie Anastasia says his mistress began sexualizing 90 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: their day to day interactions. At the breakfast table, she 91 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: read aloud letters from Mother Teresa that mentioned issues like masturbation. 92 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes in class, she read from a controversial spiritual text 93 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: that hinted an incestuous relationship between Jesus and his mother Mary. 94 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: Elie Anastasia thought, this is bizarre, but he kept to 95 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: his duties. But everything turned worse I don't know how 96 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: many weeks past, maybe two or three weeks from the 97 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: beginning of the past. His mistress asked if he wanted 98 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: to join her for night adoration, basically a prayer session. 99 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: Elie Anastasia was excited. It was a chance for real silence, 100 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: no sounds, no know, it's just to just undergotten you 101 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: and this is wonderful. After the evening bell rang at 102 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: ten pm, Ellie Anastasia went to the chapel. His mistress 103 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: sat close and shared stories from her life. By two 104 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: or three am, Elie Anastasia was falling asleep. He asked 105 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: for permission to go to bed, got a couple of 106 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: hours of rest Before the morning bell. The next day, 107 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: the mistress asked him again, please join me for night prayers. 108 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: Elie Anastasia was sleep deprived from the night before, but 109 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: agreed again. They stayed in the chapel until early in 110 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: the morning. Ellie Anastasia says, this time, when he started 111 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: to nod off, the mistress pulled his head onto her lap. 112 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: Then the mistress repeated the odd phrases. Mother Mighty asked 113 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: me to be your mother. I will be a good 114 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: mother to you. Just got once to your night with 115 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: you and so on, like she's lulling you because you're 116 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: so tired. Yeah, you understand. I can't understand how it 117 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: happened because in one second she started ahead and then 118 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: finding that she's putting her breast into my mouth. I'm lying, 119 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: lying then and like she's putting her breath, but I 120 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: breast into my mouth. I'm paralyzed that moment, what is 121 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: going on? And she speaking something It was something like 122 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: Mother Mary was feeding Jesus. And then I'm just paralyzed, 123 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: and I don't know what to do because her breast 124 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: in my mouth, and that's awful. Just and I don't 125 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: know how long it was going on. Actually it was 126 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: like everything for me, everything stopped. Then there was a 127 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: noise from the staircase, someone walking near the chapel. The 128 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: mistress quickly covered herself with her Sorry again, Elianastasia. I 129 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: didn't know what to make of what was happening. He 130 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: had no words. He grew up sheltered, no talk of 131 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: sexual abuse, and he says he never received any training 132 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: from the missionaries of charity about sexual harassment or what 133 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: constitutes an appropriate behavior, even though this was a superior 134 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: the direct voice of God something felt incredibly wrong. How 135 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: does possible something like that to happen in front of 136 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: the blessed sacrament the holiest of holy. Stories about sexual 137 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: abuse are often really hard to investigate, and it's even 138 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: harder in a group like this that's closed to outsiders. 139 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: So we partnered with an investigative reporting team type Investigations, 140 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: and we worked with reporter Katherine Joyce. So, Catherine, you know, 141 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: we don't know where sisters are stationed. In some cases, 142 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: we might not even know if they're in the order anymore. 143 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: We don't know their real or secular names, and their 144 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: mail is read by their superior so if we send 145 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: them a letter, it might not even get to them. Yeah, 146 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: I think that this was one of the things that 147 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: was more challenging about reporting this story than any other 148 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: that I've done. It is such an insular group. There's 149 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: a mother's period who like is ultimately making a decision 150 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: about whether or not people can speak to us, and 151 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: that insularity is so much more formalized than in a 152 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: lot of other groups that I've looked at um Over 153 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: the past decade plus, I've I've reported on this a 154 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: number of times, sometimes looking at abuse in specific Catholic 155 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: churches sometimes looking at big fundamentalist or evangelical institutions, um, 156 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: whether that's someplace like Bob Jones University or a very 157 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: large overseas mission group that has a lot of members. 158 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: So I've I've seen this sort of stuff in in 159 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: different settings before, and I think that there are some similarities. 160 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: But one thing that was pretty interesting in this case 161 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: is that there was a substantial paper trail. Yeah. I mean, 162 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: we collected a lot of documents about this story, and 163 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia isn't the only person with an allegation of 164 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: sexual abuse in the MCS. We also spoke with another 165 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: former sister named Betilde, and we're going to get to 166 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: her story a little later. To confirm both stories, we 167 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: reviewed legal documents, church investigation reports, emails from the MCS 168 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: regarding their policies. Plus we had dozens of letters that 169 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,599 Speaker 1: both Batilde and eli Anastasia had been sending back and 170 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 1: forth with the m c's or other members of the 171 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: Catholic hierarchy, other people in their lives, sort of testifying 172 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: to what had happened to them. We really did want 173 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: to hear from the missionaries of charity on this, and 174 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: we we wrote to them several times. We sent them 175 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: a comprehensive list of questions. They didn't answer those questions, 176 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: but we did get a statement from an MC spokesperson 177 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: who told us that the alleged abusers vehemently denied the allegations. Yeah, 178 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: we we asked to speak to them directly, um, but 179 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: the MCS declined. That spokesperson also told us that the 180 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: fact that Elianastasia and Bettild quote believe they were abused 181 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: is without question, but continued that the evidence compiled and 182 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: the investigations the missionaries of charity conducted contradicts their accusations. 183 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: They're basically saying that they investigated the abuse and they 184 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: say that the abuse did not happen. Yep. You know. 185 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,599 Speaker 1: The other thing that stuck out to me in this 186 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: response is the suggestion that these former sisters both had 187 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: mental health problems. They also emphasized that neither of them 188 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: took vows, basically implying that they weren't real missionaries of charity, 189 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 1: sort of as a defense against these allegations. You know, 190 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: there there is a long history of responding to rape 191 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: allegations or abuse allegations by denigrating the mental health of 192 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: the person who's making the accusation or delegitimizing them in 193 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: in one way or another, um basically calling them crazy, 194 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: the sickly calling them crazy. You know, back during the 195 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton era, the defense that was commonly made against 196 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: all of the women who came forward with allegations against 197 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: President Clinton was referred to as nuts and sluts because 198 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: women were just being constantly dismissed as either crazy or promiscuous. 199 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I just think that it is a it's 200 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: a common thing, this praying together. It became a nightly ritual. 201 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: And Elie Anastasia says his mistress pushed things further. She 202 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: was trying to put but it should not be at all, never, never, never, 203 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: because of the world. Chastity first to fall under my 204 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: skirt and I said, whoa stop, what are you doing? 205 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: The mistress pulled back her hand but kept moving her 206 00:13:55,080 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: body against his. And it was just awful. Elie Anastasia, 207 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to tell someone. He tried to describe this thing. 208 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: He didn't understand. In confession, he says, the priest dismissed 209 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: him child. Your Supena knows anco whatever. She would not 210 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: wish anything bad to you. She's your Supiter, listen and 211 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: do what she tells you. Ellie Anastasia thought maybe he 212 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: could phone another priest he knew, but he had to 213 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: ask his mistress for permission to use a pay phone 214 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: in town. Then his mistress stood directly beside him while 215 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: he made the call. It seemed like there was no 216 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: way to tell anyone, so Ellie Anastasia says that the 217 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: abuse continued for months. This type of abuse, he alleges 218 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: abuse by a nun, It tends to fly under the 219 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: radar in the Catholic Church, partly because people don't expect 220 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: women to be abusers. This is a very unaddressed part 221 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: of Catholic Church history. Mary dispense I used to be 222 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: a nun. She now works with SNAP, the Survivors Network 223 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: for those abused by priests. She leads support groups for survivors. 224 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: She's their point person for abuse involving nuns. I have 225 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: probably heard from a hundred and twenty or so survivors 226 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: of of non abuse. It wasn't until after she started 227 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: leading support groups for survivors of none abuse that she 228 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: realized an incident from her own time as a nun 229 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: had been sexual assault. That's how hard it can be 230 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: to recognize none abuse. Sometimes religious orders are a little 231 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: bit different from let's say the clergy, because you build up, 232 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: especially women religious you you really become a family. I 233 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: often say religious abuse within orders men and women is 234 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: very much like incest. The tendencies even greater to keep 235 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: quiet and silent because you don't want to hurst your family. 236 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: And then there's the vow of obedience. They're afraid because 237 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: they're taught. If you ask questions, it's a sin. If 238 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: you doubt anything, it's a sin. This is Tom Doyle. 239 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: He was a Catholic priest for forty years. In the 240 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, he became one of the first priests to 241 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: draw attention to the clergy sex abuse crisis. He wrote 242 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: a ninety two page report that urged the church to 243 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: take the problem seriously. It was the end of my 244 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: career in the Vatican as as as a priest. Almost 245 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: twenty years later, the National Catholic Reporter wrote that his 246 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: report had been prophetic. Today, Doyle estimates his report has 247 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: been cited in thousands of lawsuits, and he's become a 248 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: global expert. He's worked on or consulted on more than 249 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: a thousand clergy sex abuse cases around the world. He 250 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: says the rigid hierarchy in conservative religious orders like the 251 00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: missionaries of charity can trap abuse victims. The religious orders 252 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: where the Mother General or the Mother Superior's word was 253 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: considered to be the word of God, so that even 254 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: if they would tell you, even if the Superior gives 255 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: you an order that is wrong, you have to obey 256 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: it because it's God's word. Now that is insanity. Elianastasia 257 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: learned to follow the rule of obedience years before he 258 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: ever came to India. Back in two thousand eight, six 259 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: years before his time mentioned Sarah, he was just starting out. 260 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: He was an m C pre aspirant in Poland. One 261 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: day he got news that his grandmother, who was like 262 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: a mother to him, had died. The mistress in Poland 263 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: scolded him for crying. Elianastasia asked for permission to go 264 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: home for the funeral, but the mistress said, if you 265 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: want to go to funeral or somewhere else but your thinks, 266 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: to go away and never come back again, or shut 267 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: up and go and smile to your So basically, either 268 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: leave and go to the funeral but never come back, 269 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: or stay but stop crying. Go smile and be a sister. 270 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: And it was just one or two hours after I 271 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: got the phone call about this that all my heart 272 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: was broken. The kids, I choose you and what I 273 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: did I could I for the last time, I went 274 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: and I started to smile. Elianastasia I was eventually dismissed 275 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: from the empty house in Poland. He told us he 276 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: doesn't know why. When we asked the Missionaries of Charity 277 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: for comment, an authorized spokesperson claimed eli Anastasia was dismissed 278 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: because of his personal conduct. The spokesperson said it included 279 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: a claim that he put his hand on the throat 280 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: of a fellow aspirate. The spokesperson also alleges that Elianastasia's 281 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: behavior follows a pattern that he quote enthusiastically enters a 282 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: missionary of charity community, forms an unhealthy emotional attachment with 283 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: one of its members, is rebuffed by that individual, and 284 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: then engages in highly inappropriate behavior, including threats of suicide, 285 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: until asked to leave. Elianastasia says none of this is true. 286 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: Making up rumors and gossips is the only strategy that 287 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: the religious family would choose in this terrible situation. In 288 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: spite of following the way of God who is a 289 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: friend of truth. Eli Anastasia says he wasn't suicidal in Poland. 290 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: He felt being in the empty house in Poland was 291 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: one of the happiest times in his life. And not 292 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: only did he never assault his fellow aspirant, but he 293 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: says the reverse actually happened. A sister who Anastasia says 294 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: was troubled, had attacked him twice, ripping the buttons office shirt. Plus, 295 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: he says that incident happened nearly a year before he 296 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: was asked to go home, and he says during that 297 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: time his superior told him to start sewing as sorry, 298 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: to get ready to move to the next stage. After 299 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: he Poland, Alana Stasia returned home to Russia. He volunteered 300 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: with the MCS in Moscow and then he got a 301 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: second chance to join the Missionaries of Charity. He could 302 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: start again in India. It felt like a miracle. So 303 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: when his mistress in India invited him to these night adorations, 304 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: he worried that if he disobeyed, he'd be sent away again. 305 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: He says the abuse began in the chapel but then 306 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: spread to other parts of the house. In particular mother's room, 307 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: the room in the house where mother Teresa used to stay. 308 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: This is the room of abuse. It wasn't separated by 309 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: a wall, just a bamboo screen and a curtain instead 310 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: of a door. Just every day the same story. She 311 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: was coming in the mother's room around eleven o'clock and 312 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: she was taking off my clothes, she was taking off 313 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: her clothes. She was lying on the bed. She was 314 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: putting me on her on the top, like trying to 315 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: put breast on breast, and just making the movements in 316 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: order to get Aliana. Stash loses his words here, but 317 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: in a letter he sent the m C, he wrote 318 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: that his mistress quote moved her body till she got pleasure. 319 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: She was just constantly repeating about the sacrifice and your 320 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: special one. You're my Jesus, I'm marry You're like Jesus 321 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: to me. You're like Jesus to me. You're like Jesus 322 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: to me, and like she was whispering on my ear. 323 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: This is for the salvation of the world. This is 324 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: for those who are living consen This is for those 325 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: who are not keeping chastity. This is not the scene, 326 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: This is just the sacrifice. One time Elie Anastasia says 327 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: he traveled with his mistress to Calkatta. While they are there, 328 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: the mistress pointed out another nun. She said that sister 329 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: betrayed her. The mistress told Elie Anastasia, I was a 330 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: mother to her. She was my daughter like you, She 331 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: was like my Jesus. Eli Anastasia thought to himself, this 332 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: is my mistress, admitting she's done this before. The mistress 333 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: then turned to Elie Anastasia and said, will you betray 334 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: why are you going to be my judas? For decades, 335 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: the news has been full of stories of sexual abuse 336 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: scandals in the Catholic Church. They started coming to light 337 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: while Mother Teresa was still alive and came close to home. 338 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how actually know about Tell McGuire, but 339 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: he was a serial abuser of boys. Terry McKiernan is 340 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: the founder of Bishop Accountability, an organization that documents abuse 341 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: in the Catholic Church. He's referring to Donald McGuire, formerly 342 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,959 Speaker 1: Father Donald Aguire, a Jesuit priest defract into thousand eight. 343 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: Donald McGuire was one of many priests who went to 344 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: prison for sexually abusing boys, and one of the most prominent. 345 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: He was a conservative and inspiring priest with powerful friends. 346 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 1: His m O was that he targeted wealthy, right wing 347 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: Catholic families, and once he ingratiated himself into that family 348 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: and began cycling off funds, he would also convince them 349 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: to allow their twelve or thirteen year old son to 350 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 1: accompany him as his secretary. During these trips, which were 351 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, pictually, he was always in the road, he 352 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: would sexually assault the boy who had been taken to 353 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: be his his secretary. McGuire became a spiritual director of 354 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: the Missionaries of Charity. He traveled the world to MC 355 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: houses to hear confessions from m C sisters and held 356 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: dozens of retreats for the order. Mother Teresa also met 357 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: alone with him for confession and spiritual advice. You've actually 358 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: heard about Donald McGuire before. He's the priest who warned 359 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: Joan Worcester not to leave the MCS or she'd get 360 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: divorced and have children with disabilities. In the ninet nineties, 361 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: McGuire was removed from his position in the church because 362 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: of abuse allegations. The San Francisco Weekly published a letter 363 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: that appeared to be written by Mother Teresa, though it 364 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: wasn't signed in it. She worried about the reputation of 365 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: the priesthood. She said she trusted McGuire and she wished 366 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: to quote see his vital ministry resume as soon as possible. 367 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: McGuire did return, an allegation soon emerged that his abuse continued. 368 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: In an emailed statement, the mc spokesperson said they didn't 369 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: believe Mother Teresa personally wrote the letter supporting McGuire, and 370 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: that McGuire had deceived Mother Teresa and betrayed her trust. 371 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: In two thousands, Donald McGuire went to trial for abuse. 372 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: Mother Teresa's successor sister near Malajoshi, sent a letter to 373 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: the judge defending his character. The sisters, and they're very distinctive, 374 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: guard attended the trial to support him. There are pictures 375 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: of this in the courthouse. The sisters wore buttons on 376 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: their saries that read I support father McGuire. The sisters 377 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: were very very present at that trial. In the end, 378 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: he was convicted and sent to prison for twenty five years. 379 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: What happened with Donald McGuire and the m C S 380 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: It gives me a sense of how the congregation responds 381 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: to sexual abuse from the top down. And that's what 382 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: I think this episode is about, not just how a 383 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: culture can enable abuse, but also how a system works 384 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: when abuse comes to light. It makes me think of 385 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: a story Mary Johnson told me. You've heard from Mary 386 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: Johnson throughout this series. One time she told me something 387 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: that caught my attention, a story that seemed to shed 388 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: light on the culture of the congregation when it comes 389 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: to sexual assault. There was one time there was a 390 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: sister she was very upset about something. Mary had a 391 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: lot of responsibility. She traveled with Mother Teresa. She prepared 392 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: sisters her final vows, basically upper management. She says. She 393 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: told me at one point that she learned about something 394 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: that happened to several sisters in Europe. There was a 395 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: terrible thing that happened um in a convent in a 396 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: remote location, and one night men broke into the convent 397 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: and they raped the sisters, and it was a really 398 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: horrible thing. Mary says this story was somewhat common knowledge 399 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: among sisters. With authority. She heard about it from several nuns, 400 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: including one who was there that night. Another former sister 401 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: told us she had heard about the same attack, also 402 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: direct from my sister who had been there she said 403 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: it was whispered about in Calcutta but considered top secret. 404 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: In Mary Johnson's case, she says she helped one of 405 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: the nuns from that convent prepare for final vows. The 406 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: sister told Mary that the victims talked to Mother Teresa 407 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: about the attack and mother told them, now you have 408 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: told Mother, you must never tell anyone else again. You 409 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: must never speak of it. And obviously this is not 410 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: going to be helpful to those sisters. Those sisters had 411 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: had this very traumatic experience. You don't heal from trauma 412 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: by ignoring it. Why do you think Mother Teresa said 413 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: that to them, to not speak of it ever again. 414 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: She would often say that for various things, like, Okay, 415 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: you've told mother, now, never speak of it again, for 416 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: various things. For Mother, speaking about bad things that had 417 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: happened was almost as bad, or even worse than the 418 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: fact that the thing had happened. Mary says, Mother Teresa 419 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: just didn't understand how trauma worked, that hiding something could 420 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: make it worse, and that brings us to Batilda. Batilda 421 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: asked us not to use her last name. She's sixty 422 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: two years old and lives in Paris, and she was 423 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: once a sister with the Missionaries of Charity. The first letter. 424 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: Over the past eighteen years, she's written a lot of letters. 425 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: They describe abuse she says she experienced in the order, 426 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: letters to the head of the Missionaries of Charity, letters 427 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: to the Vatican. Yes, I have itch in front of me. 428 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: The first letter in two thousand three was to a 429 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: sister her we're not naming her alleged abuser. I think 430 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: you remember me. I was your postonate in Rome, in 431 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: Schandri Guru around the year night in the one that 432 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: you have sexually abused. It was in that convent in 433 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: San Gregorio that she met the sister who she says 434 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: sexually abused her her mistress, but till it, says, at 435 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: first the mistress just directed her as she would any pastilant. 436 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: But a few weeks in her mistress told her she 437 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: loved her. Then things became physical. After night prayer, she 438 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: would sitcom and then sitting in the bench and she 439 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: would kiss me, and I mean, I don't like to 440 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: see it, she would oh, I mean she would kiss me. 441 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: She would put my breast. She would tell me, wonder, 442 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: I will take your clothes all out and I will 443 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: kiss you everywhere, but she only saying she did not 444 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: do I knew that every day it would happen, That's 445 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: all I But Tilda did what she could to avoid her, 446 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: but that angered her. Mistress, you have to you have 447 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: to obey me. You're very disobedient. In time, she says, 448 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: the abuse became more forceful. She would check me and 449 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: we were to get that big corridor. She would push 450 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: me again the wall or walking in front of me, 451 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: and then turned suddenly and taking me in to her arms. 452 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: And I mean I could not I could not escape. 453 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: I mean I didn't know what to do. But he'ld 454 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: says she didn't dare tell the regional superior. She just 455 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: yelled at her. She told multiple priests, but says they 456 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: were no help, that they pretended not to hear her 457 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: and changed the subject. She says mother Teresa once asked 458 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: her if someone was bothering her, but that she said 459 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: nothing for fear of being scolded. But Tilda outwardly changed 460 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: during this time. She remembers the regional superior reprimanded her, 461 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: why are you not smiling? You never smile? I mean 462 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: I could not smile. I was it was difficult. Eventually 463 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: she gave up. She felt empty. Just let her do 464 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: and I did not defend my shift. Batild graduated out 465 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: of postulancy and was transferred to Poland. The abuse was over. 466 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: It was a relief, so much so she remarked one 467 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: day how nice it was to be there, and according 468 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: to Batilde, the superior there overheard and asked what she meant. 469 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: She started to tell her story and the superior stopped her. 470 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: You don't need to go any further, She said, I 471 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: know who it is. She named Batilde's mistress and said 472 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: she did the same to another sister. Batild superior urged 473 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: her to repeat the story to the regional superior, so 474 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: she did, but she says the regional reacted with disdain. 475 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: She told Batilde, I knew you were a kind of 476 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: sister like that. Years later, when Batilde confronted the order 477 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: with her allegations, both the superior and the regional superior 478 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: said they didn't recall those conversations. When the time came, 479 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: Batilde was not permitted to take her vows. She says 480 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: she wasn't told why. Instead, she was abruptly sent home. 481 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: After two years, she asked to rejoin the MCS. She 482 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: was accepted into the Contemplative Branch. Contemplative days were quiet, 483 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: filled with prayer, but in that silence she started having 484 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: flashbacks and trouble sleeping. She says. She reached out to 485 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: Sister Nermala Joshi, the founder of the Contemplative Branch. She 486 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: told Sister Nermala about the abuse. In response, Batilde says, 487 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: Sister Nermala encouraged her to see a psychologist. And one 488 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: more thing, she told me, if you don't speak to 489 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: anybody of what happened, you speak to nobody, absolutely nobody. 490 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: So I mean that afternoon I didn't speak to anybody, 491 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: and then our having very much pain in this stock, 492 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: and then that was not the good thing to say, 493 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: not to speak to anybody. In time, but Tilda was 494 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: sent home again dismissed from the m c s. And 495 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: again it wasn't clear why, just a vague suggestion that 496 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: she wasn't obedient enough. They dropped her off at the 497 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: airport with four dollars and a miraculous medal, one of 498 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: those tokens Mother Teresa used to give out. But Tild 499 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: went home to Paris years past. That brings us back 500 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: to the letter writing around two thousand three. But Tilda 501 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: read in the newspaper about the global sexual abuse scandal 502 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: on the Catholic Church. She was still haunted by her 503 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: own experience. She decided to write a letter. She thought, 504 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: maybe an acknowledgement or an apology will help me heal 505 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: and I will feel much better and I will feel 506 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: all right. I mean all my life is ruined for 507 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: me or my life she damaged everything, So she wrote 508 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: to her former mistress, you made my life very difficult. 509 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: It was very difficult to pray because of flashback coming 510 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: in my head, lack of trust, paint in the stomach, 511 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: and lack of trustworthy superiors. How do you repair all that? 512 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: She also sent a copy to Sister Nermala, the sister 513 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: who'd sent her to a psychologist and told her never 514 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: to speak of it. By now, Sister Nermala was actually 515 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: the Superior General Mother Teresa's successor to lead the m 516 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: c S a couple of weeks later, but tilt her 517 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: back from her former mistress. She flatly denied the allegations. 518 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: I have done nothing to bring upon me such an accusation, 519 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 1: she wrote. Then, she ended the letter, I am praying 520 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: for you and asking the Lord to forgive you. I 521 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: felt very very bad at little very bad. She also 522 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: received a response from Sister Nermala, the head of the 523 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: m IS at the time. Dear Batilde, thank you for 524 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: the copy of your letter to sister date fourth November 525 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: two or three, accusing her of sexually abusing you when 526 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: you were a postulate. I was deeply pained when I 527 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: read it. In the letter, Sister Nermala said, she spoke 528 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: to the alleged abuser, and that quote, the mature way 529 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: in which she responded to such a painful situation, leaves 530 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: me no room to doubt her sincerity. Then, Sister Nermala 531 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: addressed betheled herself, I wonder what made you write such 532 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: a letter. Is it really true? Or is it because 533 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: you are so hurt in life that you can't help 534 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: hurting others also? Whatever it may be, I ask Jesus 535 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: to take away all the burden of pain you carry 536 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: in your heart and feed it with his own love, 537 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: so that you may be able to forgive all who 538 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: have hurt you, and ask pardon of all whom you 539 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: have heard, and to be tilled. The message was clear, 540 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: she was the one causing problems. Case closed, no follow up, 541 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: no investigation, no apology with much love and prayer. God 542 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: bless you, Sister Namala MC. This did not deterpret held, 543 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: she wrote. Sister Nermala back the next month in December 544 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: two thousand three, no response. Again in June two, no response. 545 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: In November two thousand four, she wrote again, Please sister, 546 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: do not put down a sister who has suffered from 547 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: sexual harassment, otherwise you victimize her. A second time, more silence. 548 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: Finally sister Nermala responded. It was late January two. Sister 549 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: Nermala wrote, we want to know the truth. Truth must prevail. 550 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: She said the m c S had a policy and 551 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: procedure to follow, and we're starting an investigation. She also 552 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: said but Tilt would send any evidence she had to 553 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: prove her accusations. Batilda went into overdrive. She gathered letters 554 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: from family members and her old psychologist. Her sister wrote 555 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 1: that after leaving the m c S, Batilde suffered from 556 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: flashbacks and her face was dull. Batilde mailed it all 557 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: to the Missionaries of Charity. The m c said they 558 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: would contact Batilda quote at the appropriate time, but Batilde 559 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,399 Speaker 1: says she was never told what was involved or who 560 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: was being talked to. You For the investigation, she received 561 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: no follow up questions, nothing. Frustrated, she wrote to officials 562 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 1: in the Catholic hierarchy. They offered Batilda empathy but little else. Eventually, 563 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: a year and a half later, in two thousand six, 564 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 1: the church sent batilda response. It says, quote, it appears 565 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: that material evidence which could support your accusations against the 566 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: sister beyond any doubt, is missing. Actually there is only 567 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: one testimony, yours against the sister's word. Again, case closed. 568 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: To this day, Matilda says she's never seen any official 569 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: report or other documentation of the investigation, and to this 570 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: day she says what her mistress did affects her. Prayer 571 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: is difficult to pray, and but I do. I do. 572 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: I feel hard in everything. I feel like I feel 573 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: like like um if I don't exist, it's like a big, 574 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: infinite devastation of the being. May I want the truth, 575 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: That's all, and I'm not getting it. In two thousand seventeen, 576 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: Buttild renewed her letter writing campaign. She wrote the Pope Francis, 577 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: who had said sympathetic things about victims. She didn't hear 578 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: back from him. She heard from the Vatican's Office on 579 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 1: Religious Orders. They offer allegations, and eventually they warned that 580 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: if she continued to say the church had treated her unfairly, 581 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: she could face legal action for slander. Elliana Stasia couldn't sleep, 582 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,320 Speaker 1: or really, his mistress wouldn't let him sleep. It was 583 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: in the conventation Sarah India. He uses he him pronounced now. 584 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: He says his mistress abused him almost every night for months. 585 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: She kept him up until an hour or two before 586 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,439 Speaker 1: in the morning. Bell I was a zombie. I don't 587 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 1: I didn't understand what I'm doing. I could not really 588 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: really even separate the reality and not reality because you're 589 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: sleeping or not sleeping. It was just one day, which 590 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: is not finishing. One night, Elie Anastasia and his mistress 591 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: heard a sound. Somebody nearby used the bathroom and then 592 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: left quickly. Eli Anastasia figure the sister must have overheard them. 593 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 1: For sure, everybody heard it. It is just not possible 594 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: not to hear. Then, out of the blue, a senior 595 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: sister from EMC headquarters visited the house. She interviewed Elianastasia's 596 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: fellow postulant for an entire day. Soon after, Elie Anastasia 597 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: says he was abruptly summon to call cut up by 598 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: Sister Auntie, the head of the MC's contemplative branch, and 599 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: she said, I want to talk to you. I have 600 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: a conversation. Please come on Wednesday, but by the way, 601 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: can you pick up all your clothes and things. Elianastasia's 602 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: mistress was summoned to. When they arrived, Sister Auntie spoke 603 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,319 Speaker 1: to the mistress for first. They talked for over an hour. 604 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: Then it was Elie Anastasia's turn. Hello, sister, and she's 605 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: starting to shout at me. You have to go out 606 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: from here with the minute, sister. I can't understand what 607 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: is going on, like I'm leaving then Insura, I cannot 608 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: understand what is happening, Like what is the reason you 609 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: called me? Can you explain me what you want from me? 610 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia is being sent away, not just from Chinsura, 611 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: not just from India. But he would find out later 612 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: from the missionaries of charity, and he didn't know why. 613 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: In an email to us, the MC spokesperson suggested that 614 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia was dismissed because of his personal conduct. The 615 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: spokesperson implied he had become fixated on a fellow sister 616 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: and acted inappropriately. Elie Anastasia says no one said anything 617 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: like this to him. There was no pat like, no 618 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 1: no breaking, nothing, nothing, nothing, he says. He asked again 619 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,879 Speaker 1: and again why he was being sent away. Finally, he says, 620 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: sister as he told him that since Eli Anastasia was 621 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: Russian and Vladimir Putin had invaded Ukraine, his presence might 622 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: cause problems for the sisters in Chanceurra. I can't understand, 623 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: really what is what is the reason? Because what I 624 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: have to do with As far as he knew, no 625 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 1: sister had ever been sent away from the MCS for 626 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: something like this. After all, once you're called, you're called 627 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: for life. He was given a plane ticket home to Russia. 628 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: As for his mistress, Eliana Sassia says she also got 629 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 1: a ticket, she was transferred to another MC branch in Nepal. 630 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: Once he was back in Russia, Eli Anastasia fell into 631 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: a deep depression. I Frank, he state with, had to 632 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: force him to eat. I was just at vegetable, out 633 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 1: of reality, fully, no desires, nothing, nothing. He didn't have 634 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: the language to explain what had happened to him. For 635 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 1: a few months, he was suicidal. One day He spent 636 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: a long time alone in a chapel in front of 637 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: the altar, pleading with God. So on the question to God, 638 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,439 Speaker 1: why if you gave me this vocation to be a nun, 639 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: why it had happened? How you allowed to deal with it? 640 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,320 Speaker 1: How you how I should leave with that? Where is 641 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: the way you called me? And what shall I do now? 642 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: With all that? I cannot even understand what is going on? 643 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,359 Speaker 1: Crying and shouting to Jesus, and crying and shouting still. 644 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: Eventually ali Anastasia met other people who had suffered traumatic experiences. 645 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,879 Speaker 1: They gave him the words he needed, sexual abuse PTSD. 646 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: Over time he h maybe there are other victims in 647 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,760 Speaker 1: the Missionaries of Charity, and if I couldn't name what happened, 648 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: how could they. In five years after he was forced 649 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: from the order, Elie Anastasia wrote a letter your sisters. 650 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: This letter is written in fulfillment of the instruction of 651 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: my spiritual father, and it is addressed to Reverend Sister 652 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,719 Speaker 1: Prema as the head of the Society of the Missionaris 653 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: of Charity. The main topic of this letter sexual and 654 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: spiritual abuse. Eli Anastasia laid out what had happened to him. 655 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,959 Speaker 1: I wanted to have a dialogue about the society first, 656 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: just to share my story, because my main aim to 657 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: change the neglect. Three months later, he got a phone call. 658 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 1: It was Sister Prema, the current Superior General of the MCS. 659 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,880 Speaker 1: She asked Eli Anastasia what exactly did he want them 660 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,319 Speaker 1: to do for him. So Eli Anastasia wrote a list 661 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: of systematic changes. Provide ed occasion in training on sexual violence, 662 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 1: support past victims with psychological care, financially compensate sisters who 663 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: leave their vocation, especially sisters from underdeveloped countries. Offer rehabilitation 664 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: for perpetrators and prevent them from serving in positions of power. 665 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: I was asking calls with Sister Prema to appoint a 666 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: proper person to whom any sisters anyone in the society 667 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: can freely without permission, without asking permission for a phone call, 668 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: conturn and to report. In response, the MCS commissioned a 669 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 1: Cannon lawyer to look at the case. A cannon lawyer 670 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: is someone accredited to work within the Catholic Church's internal 671 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 1: legal system. My name is Helen Costigan. I'm a member 672 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: of the Society of the Holy Child Jesus. I live 673 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: in hammer Smith in London, and I teach model theology 674 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,879 Speaker 1: and canon law submitties University in Twickenham. Helen Costigan's job 675 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: was to investigate the claims of abuse, but she told 676 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: us she wasn't actually able to conduct a full investigation. 677 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: The scissors were too hard to reach, often in remote 678 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,320 Speaker 1: locations with bad connections and no computers. But Helen Costigan 679 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: wrote a report. The spokesperson for the Missionaries of Charity 680 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,240 Speaker 1: said in an email to us that Costigan's report concluded 681 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: there was quote no concrete evidence to afford the allegations. 682 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: She did say that, but it's not all she said. 683 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,719 Speaker 1: I says there is no evidence to support the allegations, 684 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: but that's not to say that it didn't happen. Like Elianastasia, 685 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: she told the m cs they should make changes, provide 686 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: training and maintaining proper boundaries, create an external channel to 687 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: report abuse, and psychologically assessed sisters when they enter. She 688 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: said the m c s should look at Pope Francis's 689 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 1: new guidelines on sexual abuse, which expressly forbid retaliation against victims. 690 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: That's something's Pope Francis has said. You have to listen 691 00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: to the victims. A supportant, Costigan asked Ellianastasia to total 692 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: his expenses related to his trauma, and she told the 693 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 1: MCS to follow up about compensation. Finally, she asked the 694 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,880 Speaker 1: MCS to give Elianastasia a copy of the official report, 695 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,800 Speaker 1: but the Missionaries of Charity didn't do that. Instead, in February, 696 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,239 Speaker 1: they sent Ellianastasia a letter. It insinuated that his allegations 697 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: were just a ruse for money, that Elianastasia should quote 698 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: be careful, and then they wrote this what you have 699 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: written could be considered blackmail. We would not want to 700 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: jeopardize your situation or create unnecessary liability issues. She's just 701 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: threatening me with the blackmail. If I would not have 702 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: such a support like now on that letter, I don't know, 703 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 1: I would be suicide. Though, Costigan was concerned enough that 704 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,240 Speaker 1: she responded to the MC's directly, writing, I was appalled 705 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,439 Speaker 1: by the tone and content. Is putting it mildly because 706 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: I have to see I thought, oh, that's that's that's 707 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: really you know, that's not helping the Sames. After Costigan's letter, 708 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,719 Speaker 1: the MCS did send Alianastasia the report, but now he 709 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,040 Speaker 1: worried he could be at legal risk, so he looked 710 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: for a lawyer he found his way to Tom Doyle, 711 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,680 Speaker 1: the former priest be heard from earlier, who has worked 712 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: on more than a thousand clergy sex abuse cases. He's 713 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,880 Speaker 1: also a cannon lawyer. He consulted pro bono on Alianastasia's 714 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: case for a few months. In one this spring, they 715 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,439 Speaker 1: parted ways after a disagreement about a partner in legal group, 716 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: but Doyle says he still believes Elianastasia's allegations and supports 717 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: the case. Elianastasia hopes to continue his case, not a 718 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: criminal complaint, depress charges or a civil complaint for compensation. 719 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,320 Speaker 1: He wants to enter a cannon law process with the Vatican. 720 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: He wants to convince the church to investigate abuse and 721 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: neglect in the missionaries of charity. He hopes to start 722 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,840 Speaker 1: a class action complaint for people who have suffered similar 723 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 1: abuse or neglect from the m c s. And still 724 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,720 Speaker 1: I have nothing against the sisters itself. I have nothing 725 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,560 Speaker 1: against the church itself. Still today have wonderful sisters who 726 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,240 Speaker 1: are really living their vocation as they can and trying 727 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 1: to do the best they can. I'm against the system. 728 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,880 Speaker 1: We should embrace our faults, to change, to take responsibility 729 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: for the nection you know, it's interesting to me here 730 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,840 Speaker 1: and you say that because it's bringing to my mind 731 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: that speaking your faults and acknowledging your failure, it's such 732 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: a big part of being a missionary of charity. And 733 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: so in a sense, what you're asking for is actually 734 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 1: very central to the mission, which is to acknowledge sin 735 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,920 Speaker 1: or acknowledge faults and making amends in some way. And 736 00:49:55,040 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: that's what you want. Yeah, to the emishonnaries of charity, 737 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,480 Speaker 1: there are really witnesses of silence, to cover up, to hide, 738 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,640 Speaker 1: to silence others. That's not a silence in which God leaves. 739 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,719 Speaker 1: It is completely opposite. God is not a friend of 740 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:24,200 Speaker 1: covering up the oppression. God is a friend of truth. 741 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,840 Speaker 1: Preach the truth as if you had million voices. It 742 00:50:30,000 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 1: is silence that kills the world. This episode was reported 743 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: in partnership with Type Investigations. You can find out more 744 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: at Type investigations dot org. Special thanks to reporter Catherine Joyce, 745 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,520 Speaker 1: editor Sasha Blankie, fact checker n Denny Ratti, and editor 746 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: Sarah blu Stain. The Turning is written by Allen lance 747 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,759 Speaker 1: Lesser and me. Our producers are Allen lance Lesser and 748 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: Emily Foreman. Our editor is Rob Rosenthal. Andrea swah is 749 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:39,920 Speaker 1: our digital producer. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Special 750 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,840 Speaker 1: thanks to Adeleine Sere, Marie Claire Jovois, Amy Gaines, Sarah 751 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:48,600 Speaker 1: oh Lander, Murad Frishkoff, Bethan Macaluso, Travis Dunlap, and consulting 752 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: producer Mary Johnson. Her memoir and Unquenchable Thirst provided inspiration 753 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,960 Speaker 1: for this series. Our executive producers are Jessica Albert and 754 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: John Parratti at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvella I Heart Radio. 755 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,920 Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Matt Reid. For photos and 756 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 1: more details on this series, follow us on Instagram at 757 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,960 Speaker 1: Rococo Punch. You can reach out via email to the 758 00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: Turning at Rococo Punch dot com. I am Erica Lands. 759 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:59,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. M