Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller.
Speaker 2: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,
Speaker 2: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moving news.
Speaker 1: Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast.
Speaker 1: We are live from the World Center Maria in Orlando,
Speaker 1: Florida at the b NY Melon Pershing Insight Conference. Two
Speaker 1: thousand members of the financial advice community are gathered here
Speaker 1: for learning, inspiration, and networking. And we are joined right
Speaker 1: now by no Tosh, head of Partnerships and Revenue at
Speaker 1: Pershing X. Noan, thanks so much for joining us here.
Speaker 1: It's graef you down here in Orlando with you guys
Speaker 1: talk to us about Pershing X. What are you guys
Speaker 1: doing there?
Speaker 3: Absolutely thanks for having me. Pershing X is a startup
Speaker 3: within Pershing within b and Y Melon focused on working
Speaker 3: with our advisor community and helping them integrate the various
Speaker 3: technology platforms that they're using.
Speaker 4: Today.
Speaker 3: We're looking to deliver to them interoperability. We're looking to
Speaker 3: deliver to them a more seamless experience with their technology
Speaker 3: and essentially provide to them a level of efficiency that
Speaker 3: gives them time back with their clients so that they
Speaker 3: can help more people.
Speaker 1: Is this kind of a you know a sense, a
Speaker 1: little bit of a client servicing kind of effort here,
Speaker 1: because again, there's so many financial service folks kind of
Speaker 1: leaving the big brokerage firms going out on their own,
Speaker 1: the registired investment advisor business that seems to be a
Speaker 1: huge wave within retail financial services. That's where you guys
Speaker 1: kind of fit in to help those folks.
Speaker 3: So we certainly help those folks, and I would say
Speaker 3: we're a technology first platform. It's about delivering to them
Speaker 3: an end to end platform that can help them from
Speaker 3: everything from their prospecting all the way through account opening
Speaker 3: into their day in the life, everything that they're trying
Speaker 3: to do within technology platforms today, we have a stat
Speaker 3: that we've seen where you know, up to seventy five
Speaker 3: percent of their time is being spent on administrative work,
Speaker 3: on technology, on entering data in one platform, and you
Speaker 3: know what, having this wile their chair and go enter
Speaker 3: this very same data in the next platform. So we've
Speaker 3: seen an opportunity to deliver efficiency and to enable them
Speaker 3: to do that just once and that will give them
Speaker 3: more time to work with their clients, with their investors.
Speaker 5: Speaking of those platforms, talk to us about these partnerships
Speaker 5: that you're going to announce at Insight.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, so a big part of my role is actually
Speaker 3: curation and curating the various technologies that exist out there
Speaker 3: in the ecosystem, finding the best and brightest emerging technologies,
Speaker 3: working with some of the big tech providers. Not everything
Speaker 3: needs to be or will be built in house, and
Speaker 3: so the partnerships are key part of the platform we're delivering.
Speaker 3: We have a fantastic partnership we announced late last year
Speaker 3: with a company called Conquest Planning. We're bringing them to
Speaker 3: the US market alongside us. They essentially are an emerging
Speaker 3: provider of financial planning that we found to be pretty
Speaker 3: elite in what they do, and so we're looking for
Speaker 3: partners like that who can really bolster the capabilities we
Speaker 3: have on the platform, but essentially drive value. The more
Speaker 3: value we can give to our clients, and being able
Speaker 3: to find these types of partners and put them in
Speaker 3: our client's hands, that's where we want to play a
Speaker 3: role of curation.
Speaker 1: So talk to us about kind of this is a
Speaker 1: role of technology. It seems like if I'm managing money
Speaker 1: for others, it's not just enough to be the smartest
Speaker 1: guy in the room. I have to have the technology
Speaker 1: to kind of service my clients, give them the type
Speaker 1: of service that they're used to with their Wells Fargo
Speaker 1: app or something like that. So I mean is that
Speaker 1: that's a big investment on the part of these folks.
Speaker 3: It is a big investment, and I think it's why
Speaker 3: we exist. We recognize that over time, what's ended up
Speaker 3: happening is technology made a promise that it was going
Speaker 3: to deliver efficiency and make lives easier for advisors. But
Speaker 3: what's ended up happening is a lot of point solutions
Speaker 3: that don't integrate, that don't speak to each other, has
Speaker 3: actually created a burden on advisors and created a whole
Speaker 3: other area that they need to learn. With Pershing X
Speaker 3: in the platform that we're launching in just four hours here,
Speaker 3: we think we can solve a big chunk of that
Speaker 3: through that integration and through that curation and give advisors back,
Speaker 3: you know, take a little bit of that burden off
Speaker 3: the advisor. Talk to us about your panel that you're
Speaker 3: hosting coming up later today. It takes a tech village.
Speaker 1: Is the types of tech village? What are you guys
Speaker 1: can be focusing on there? That's a lot of that.
Speaker 3: It's about collaboration, you know, And if we think about fintech,
Speaker 3: I think just a few years ago, the big story
Speaker 3: about fintech and banks was disruption and how FinTechs were
Speaker 3: disrupting what banks were trying to do. But I think
Speaker 3: we've come full circle on that. We are now at
Speaker 3: a point where it's not about disruption. It's about collaboration
Speaker 3: and how can banks and FinTechs work together to deliver
Speaker 3: that value to our shared clients. And a lot of
Speaker 3: that boils down to shared values. What are we all
Speaker 3: trying to do. We're trying to enable an ecosystem where
Speaker 3: technology serves that we do deliver on that promise of efficiency,
Speaker 3: where we're simplifying the lives for advisors, and ultimately that
Speaker 3: results in a market where more people can be helped
Speaker 3: by financial advisors.
Speaker 5: You mentioned about partnering up with Conquest Planning. What other
Speaker 5: big tech providers do you plan to work with or
Speaker 5: hope to If you can give us any divulge some
Speaker 5: of that information.
Speaker 3: So another one I can share that we announced recently
Speaker 3: with Snowflake. That's a huge partnership for us where we're
Speaker 3: bringing the capabilities of cloud and data optimization to our clients.
Speaker 3: We have a handful of other ones, but I know
Speaker 3: I can't share them until tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1: I we'll report that tomorrow. Down here from or land out.
Speaker 6: You're listening to the team Can's are live program Bloomberg
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern.
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Speaker 1: Joining us here at live is Tanya Bottoms. She's a
Speaker 1: managing director and senior managing counsel for BE and My Melon.
Speaker 1: We want to talk about diversity and inclusion. That is
Speaker 1: a challenge across society, across the economy, across corporate America,
Speaker 1: and certainly within the financial services industry. So Tony, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Thanks for having me talk
Speaker 1: to us about you know, we're surrounded here by all
Speaker 1: types of financial services people. Talk to us about the
Speaker 1: financial services industry in terms of diversity inclusion. Where is
Speaker 1: the industry today versus ten years ago? And where does
Speaker 1: it need to go?
Speaker 7: I mean, look, I think what we really talk about
Speaker 7: is the opportunity in financial services. Even just looking around
Speaker 7: this conference, seeing all the different people and backgrounds, the
Speaker 7: opportunity within financial services to bring your individual perspective to your.
Speaker 8: Work is huge.
Speaker 7: Representation is definitely growing across the industry. We still have
Speaker 7: a lot of work to do, but the opportunity to
Speaker 7: show how diverse thought, diverse perspective, diverse experience can really
Speaker 7: positively impact how we bring services to the broader community.
Speaker 7: It creates a big opportunity for people to experience diverse perspectives,
Speaker 7: to work with someone who may not necessarily look like them,
Speaker 7: right through that collaboration push for positive community impact and
Speaker 7: business outcome.
Speaker 1: All Right, So if I walk into a financial services firm,
Speaker 1: you know, any town, USA, and there's forty advisors there,
Speaker 1: how many are going to be you know, maybe non
Speaker 1: Caucasian mail. Somebody's gonna look like me, a middle aged
Speaker 1: white guy. I mean, how diverse are we today? And
Speaker 1: kind of how much more has to be done?
Speaker 7: Do you think your representation question is the you know,
Speaker 7: is the seminal one and absolutely as the as the
Speaker 7: population of financial advisors is aging.
Speaker 8: There will be some shift in that representation.
Speaker 7: Financial advisors are actively looking to diversify their practices because
Speaker 7: they want to be able to serve the communities in
Speaker 7: which they live and reside. To your point, yes, the
Speaker 7: numbers are still overwhelmingly non diverse, but there is a
Speaker 7: lot of effort and actual intention, not just thought, around
Speaker 7: how we're actually going.
Speaker 8: To change those numbers.
Speaker 7: So it's bringing financial services into schools so that students,
Speaker 7: even at some of the most young ages, understand what
Speaker 7: they could do in a field like this and seeing people.
Speaker 8: Who look like them.
Speaker 7: How we're bringing financial services to the community, whether that's
Speaker 7: through pro bono financial work or through other mentoring and
Speaker 7: sponsorship programs where we're you know, bringing the depth and
Speaker 7: breath of financial services to life. So we have a
Speaker 7: lot of ground to cover, but I'm optimistic about where
Speaker 7: we'll end.
Speaker 5: When you talk about representation growing in the financial industry,
Speaker 5: what specific corners do you see improvement right now?
Speaker 7: So I think we've definitely seen the improvement from a
Speaker 7: gender perspective, where the representation of genders has definitely grown,
Speaker 7: and you've seen more of a balance. I think we
Speaker 7: still have opportunity with regard to our LBGTQ population as
Speaker 7: well as you know with our ethnic representations.
Speaker 8: Seeing senior.
Speaker 7: Women, men who are from those various ethnic groups, from
Speaker 7: those various identities, having more visibility, more senior leadership roles
Speaker 7: is something that will have to have a lot of
Speaker 7: more action and attention around in order to see those
Speaker 7: numbers go up.
Speaker 1: Are there certain you know, I'm just wondering, are there
Speaker 1: certain parts of the financial services industry that are doing
Speaker 1: better than others, maybe some consumer facing versus back office
Speaker 1: have you? Are there certain areas that are doing better
Speaker 1: than others?
Speaker 7: So historically I think more of the operational focused areas
Speaker 7: have represented more diverse numbers. What we have seen though,
Speaker 7: is as those numbers climb in increased responsibility or more seniority,
Speaker 7: then you start to see some of that balance than out.
Speaker 7: So definitely looking internally where the talent is already there,
Speaker 7: and looking for ways to create additional career paths and
Speaker 7: how to take the experience that they've had in one
Speaker 7: area and where are those transferable skills applicable in another
Speaker 7: part of the financial services world.
Speaker 5: When you talk about the management positions, what do you
Speaker 5: think has been typically the issues that have stood in
Speaker 5: the way, whether it's females or the LGBTQ community from
Speaker 5: trying to get more towards those promotions that you were
Speaker 5: talking about.
Speaker 7: You know, I think there's a there's a lot of
Speaker 7: research around this. One of the challenges that we all
Speaker 7: face is you you know, everyone has a natural affinity
Speaker 7: to work with, engage with, get to know people who
Speaker 7: are more like them. So creating the opportunities for engagement,
Speaker 7: creating the opportunities for you know, senior leaders to get
Speaker 7: to know the diverse LBGTQ or gender diverse talent in
Speaker 7: their organizations, more of those opportunities are are being created.
Speaker 8: So how about is just as important, but.
Speaker 7: Also understanding and knowing those pathways to leadership is equally important.
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of college campus recruiting for investment
Speaker 1: banking firms over my career, and you go down there
Speaker 1: and you make your pitch and for if going to
Speaker 1: a historically black or university or college, what's the success
Speaker 1: rate that a financial services firm has. I mean, they
Speaker 1: are they having successes that where some of the kids
Speaker 1: want to go into financial services.
Speaker 7: Yes, you know, and I know you mentioned HBCUs, but
Speaker 7: it's true of college campuses right across the country. Having
Speaker 7: the high school and college students understand the different careers
Speaker 7: that you can have in financial services.
Speaker 8: Has to be eye opening. My background is that I'm
Speaker 8: a lawyer.
Speaker 7: When I was in law school, I would never have
Speaker 7: described to you the job that I have today in
Speaker 7: financial services. So having college students and high school students
Speaker 7: and others actually see people doing the things that they
Speaker 7: could potentially do will create, I think one a lot
Speaker 7: of that interest and take away a lot of that
Speaker 7: mystique around how do you get into these financial services firms?
Speaker 8: What can you do if you.
Speaker 7: Don't necessarily just want to be a financial advisor?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 1: Exactly? All right, Tanya, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Tanya Bottoms, she's a managing director and senior managing counsel
Speaker 1: for BNYML and talking about diversity inclusion. It is a
Speaker 1: key issue across corporate American, including the financial services industry,
Speaker 1: and it is front and center here at the Insight conference.
Speaker 1: We appreciate getting some comments from Tanya. They're looking at
Speaker 1: the market chare I mean, there's so much you're.
Speaker 6: Listening to the tape catch are alive Graham Bloomberg Markets
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Speaker 4: Eleven thirty.
Speaker 1: We are live from the World Center Marion in Orlando, Florida,
Speaker 1: at the B and Y Melon Pershing Insight Conference. Two
Speaker 1: thousand members of the financial advice community gather here for learning, inspiration,
Speaker 1: and networking. I want to talk about alternative investing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a big thing for institutional investors, not so much
Speaker 1: for independent retail investors. Our next guest wants to change that.
Speaker 1: Matt Brown. He's a founder and CEO of CASE. Matt
Speaker 1: Dix so much for joining us here at the conference.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about what you guys do at CASE.
Speaker 9: Paul, thanks so much for having me on the show.
Speaker 10: But this is a very exciting time for financial advisors
Speaker 10: to be able to get access really at the level
Speaker 10: of institutions to alternative investments. And when we say alternative investments,
Speaker 10: we're really talking about institutional quality, private equity, private credit,
Speaker 10: hedge fund strategies, real estate strategies, the things that and
Speaker 10: strategy that the institutions have been putting capital behind for decades
Speaker 10: that have largely been off limits for financial advisors and
Speaker 10: their clients. And what our platform does as a technology company,
Speaker 10: we actually have a marketplace platform where financial advisors for
Speaker 10: the first time can come onto the platform, look at strategies,
Speaker 10: understand those strategies, and invest in those strategies on behalf
Speaker 10: of their clients.
Speaker 1: Can they get financial advisors, regiro investment advisors. Can they
Speaker 1: get access to or is access provided by a KKR
Speaker 1: car level? I mean, are any of their funds open
Speaker 1: to retailers?
Speaker 9: Now? All of them are?
Speaker 10: Oh, you've just hit upon probably one of the biggest
Speaker 10: trends in alternative asset management. From the perspective of the
Speaker 10: asset manager. You're seeing all the firms you just mentioned,
Speaker 10: the Blackstones, the Apollos, the Carlisles, the kkrs and so
Speaker 10: many others that are not those daily household names making
Speaker 10: sure that wealth management becomes a priority for growing their
Speaker 10: asset base and diversifying their asset base. And this is
Speaker 10: actually a good thing because what's happening is they've always
Speaker 10: thought about wealth as a source of capital of growth,
Speaker 10: but they never really focused on it to the point
Speaker 10: where they would necessarily create unique investment vehicles or really
Speaker 10: cater specifically to that market. Well, that game's over, and
Speaker 10: it's over because there are trillions of dollars about to
Speaker 10: come into that market for them, and they want to
Speaker 10: be able to capture that.
Speaker 5: Matt, this is Jess flitting in for an area doing well.
Speaker 5: I wanted to ask you about this rise of the
Speaker 5: modern three dimensional portfolio. Talk to us about what that is, holloworks.
Speaker 10: Sure, well, I think we all know the traditional sixty
Speaker 10: forty portfolio. That term has been around quite a long time,
Speaker 10: but it was never one that was adopted by institutional investors.
Speaker 10: There is always that what we're now calling the modern
Speaker 10: three dimensional portfolio, where it's maybe more of a fifty
Speaker 10: thirty twenty and twenty being alternative investments. Now institutions have
Speaker 10: all closer to forty or fifty percent, But we're saying
Speaker 10: to the RIA or to the advisor on behalf of
Speaker 10: their client, let's just try to get those allocations up
Speaker 10: to ten percent, fifteen and twenty percent, and that really
Speaker 10: gives a more well balanced portfolio that stands a much
Speaker 10: better chance in uncertain markets like we're in right now
Speaker 10: to perform for the long term.
Speaker 5: And when you're talking about uncertain markets, how does this
Speaker 5: play into Obviously everybody's looking ahead to next week with
Speaker 5: the Federal Reserve decision, expecting a potential pause but maybe
Speaker 5: a skip rather we could see potential another hike in July.
Speaker 5: How does that affect when you're trying to obviously have
Speaker 5: these allocations in these portfolios.
Speaker 10: Well, uncertainty overall, whether it's rising or unknown levels of
Speaker 10: interest rates, or global macro uncertainty or election uncertainty. You know,
Speaker 10: you can kind of laundry list out the things that
Speaker 10: are giving and financial advisors of anxiety right now about
Speaker 10: making sure that their portfolios are performing. But a different
Speaker 10: alternative investment strategies, whether there are private equity or venture
Speaker 10: investing or private credit investing, they all have a home
Speaker 10: and a portfolio based on different market cycles, and they
Speaker 10: have that impact of dampening volatility and getting access to
Speaker 10: certain types of investments that are not made available in
Speaker 10: the traditional public market.
Speaker 1: So your typical registered investment advisor, to the extent they
Speaker 1: have been reluctant to put their clients into alternatives, has
Speaker 1: it been a I don't necessarily understand the asset class
Speaker 1: or B. It's just not easy to do. The technology
Speaker 1: is not there, It's not easy for me to do
Speaker 1: as opposed to just pushing a button and buying a stock.
Speaker 10: Short answer, yes, okay to both and several other things.
Speaker 9: The entire alternative.
Speaker 10: Investment process, from education to execution to management of a
Speaker 10: portfolio once you own alternatives has really only been designed
Speaker 10: for large institutional investors. What CASE has done is it's
Speaker 10: use technology to break down all the pain points along
Speaker 10: the way to make alternative investing as easy to invest
Speaker 10: in as say a mutual fund or ETFs. Now, that
Speaker 10: doesn't address the biggest issue though, what it is. Survey
Speaker 10: with recently with Mercer, large global consulting firm, and it's
Speaker 10: nine out of ten financial advisors find that it's a
Speaker 10: lack of education and understanding of strategies that really prevents
Speaker 10: them from putting money or more capital to work in alts.
Speaker 10: So that's why CASE is really, you know, invested in
Speaker 10: and will continue to invest in modern ways of delivering content,
Speaker 10: strategy information, implementation information to financial advisors.
Speaker 5: Now, what are you hearing from clients specifically when it
Speaker 5: comes to what they're looking for when it comes to
Speaker 5: alternative investments.
Speaker 10: Well, our client, and that's a good point distinction. Our
Speaker 10: client is the financial advisor, and then they have clients,
Speaker 10: which are the individual investors. So what we're hearing generally
Speaker 10: bubble up through the financial advisor is that they want
Speaker 10: strategies right now that will one give them access to
Speaker 10: huge growth opportunities that are not readily available in the
Speaker 10: public markets.
Speaker 9: So that would be private equity.
Speaker 10: So much of our growth economy is in private equity
Speaker 10: or private markets, So that's number one.
Speaker 9: They want to participate in the growth of America.
Speaker 10: And if they're not investing in private markets or private equity,
Speaker 10: they're not getting a large swath of that opportunity too.
Speaker 10: They really want to see income oriented strategies like private
Speaker 10: credit have an impact on their portfolio and more and
Speaker 10: more so we're seeing now as a platform again, just
Speaker 10: to kind of take a half step back, as a platform,
Speaker 10: we don't tell advisors where to put money. We just
Speaker 10: observe where money goes. So we're seeing trends in data.
Speaker 10: More and more capital we're seeing now flowing into what
Speaker 10: would be traditionally called macro trading strategies, Asset managers that
Speaker 10: have real flexibility to look at different opportunities and volatility
Speaker 10: globally and make bets.
Speaker 1: Matt just met the thirty seconds left. What's a question
Speaker 1: you're getting most often here on the floor from your customers.
Speaker 9: You know, it's back to how do I get started?
Speaker 6: Yea?
Speaker 10: You know, there is, of course a large community of
Speaker 10: financial advisors that are fluent in alternative investments, but the
Speaker 10: vast majority are just getting started. And so we always say,
Speaker 10: you know, sign up for Case, have the tools that
Speaker 10: we can deliver and arm you to be competitive in
Speaker 10: building your client's portfolios, and we can begin to walk
Speaker 10: you through those beginning steps.
Speaker 1: All right, great stuff, Really appreciate it, Matt Brown, He's
Speaker 1: a founder and CEO of CASE.
Speaker 4: You're listening to the team.
Speaker 6: Can's our live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am
Speaker 6: Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the
Speaker 6: Bloomberg Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get
Speaker 6: your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Right now, let's head back. We are back here down
Speaker 1: in Orlando. We're live from the World Center Marion in
Speaker 1: Orlando at the BNY melon Pershing Insight Conference. Two thousand
Speaker 1: members of the financial advice community. You're gathering here for learning,
Speaker 1: inspiration and a lot of networking, and they network very well.
Speaker 1: I can tell you that. Joining us here right next
Speaker 1: to me is Stephanie Pearce. He's the CEO at Dreyfus
Speaker 1: Melon and Exchange Trade of funds at B and Y Mellon.
Speaker 1: WHOA wow, there's a lot going on that you do, Stephanie,
Speaker 1: talk to us about kind of what your what's your
Speaker 1: focus here at this insight conference today? What do you
Speaker 1: the message you want to get across?
Speaker 11: Well, not going to sneak previews some of the announcements
Speaker 11: we have comedy, you'll hear about those, But right now
Speaker 11: I would love to talk to you about what's going
Speaker 11: on at Dreyfus and in the cash markets as well
Speaker 11: as in our ETF business and in the ETF market.
Speaker 12: So you pick, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1: Let's go ETF. That's where the cool kids hang out.
Speaker 12: Excellent. You want me to start?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 1: What do I mean? What are the key things? I mean?
Speaker 1: I know that ETF business growing assets going there like crazy. Uh,
Speaker 1: A couple of big players, but I see lots of
Speaker 1: smaller players coming in with really unique ETFs leverage. This
Speaker 1: three times leverage. This I mean you.
Speaker 12: Want to give me a want me to give you fact?
Speaker 1: You won't know?
Speaker 11: Yes, first quarter this year, if you had to guess,
Speaker 11: it's a loaded question. Who is the fastest growing ETF
Speaker 11: issuery in the United States in the top forty oh
Speaker 11: Q one of this year.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, I'm gonna have to go to you guys.
Speaker 12: That's right, B and y Melon yep, Okay, So she didn't.
Speaker 1: Know that I did not, So talk to us about
Speaker 1: your business. The funds flows, you're seeing what's hot, where
Speaker 1: are people putting money?
Speaker 12: So look, you know, flows speak for themselves.
Speaker 11: Here's another single that you may not know of the
Speaker 11: one hundred and eight billion dollars of net ETF flows
Speaker 11: in this country in the United States in the first
Speaker 11: four months of the year. Wow, thirty percent went into
Speaker 11: active ETFs. That's the highest number we've seen. Clients are
Speaker 11: voting with their feet. They like the vehicle. They like
Speaker 11: it not just for passive, but for active as well.
Speaker 11: And we've been doing the same thing. We've got about
Speaker 11: half of our seventeen funds and active, the other half
Speaker 11: in passive. We launched two new ones in the last
Speaker 11: couple of weeks here you may have heard about them.
Speaker 11: One is an innovator's etf BKIV and this is actively
Speaker 11: managed concentrated portfolio.
Speaker 12: And the statistic here that I'll.
Speaker 11: Give you is that this is this is a fund
Speaker 11: that's focused on disruption, right, not just technology, but companies
Speaker 11: that are disrupting the way we live, the way we work,
Speaker 11: the way we play, the way our kids will do
Speaker 11: that fifty two percent of the S and P five
Speaker 11: hundred companies have disappeared in the last fifteen years, So
Speaker 11: this is really investing in that next generation of companies
Speaker 11: on that thesis that.
Speaker 12: What you see today is not going to be what
Speaker 12: you see tomorrow.
Speaker 11: The other fund is BKWO bn Y MEL and Women's
Speaker 11: Opportunities Fund. I can tell you as a woman executive
Speaker 11: my company, all fifty thousand people at BNYMEL and are
Speaker 11: very proud that we launched this.
Speaker 12: And the thesis here is that.
Speaker 11: Companies that are doing a better job recruiting, retaining, promoting,
Speaker 11: and supporting women in the workplace and letting them do
Speaker 11: it all actually outperform companies who don't, both in terms
Speaker 11: of stock performance and profitability. And there's real data to
Speaker 11: support that. So really excited like these funds in market.
Speaker 5: Stephanie, this is Jess Mitten in our Interactive Brokers studio
Speaker 5: in New York. Can you talk to us more about
Speaker 5: the direct indexing platform and exactly how it works as
Speaker 5: far as if you're a customer and you want to
Speaker 5: go and do that, how do you get started?
Speaker 12: Sure?
Speaker 11: So direct to next thing and actually called that a
Speaker 11: number of years ago. Right now, it's called direct insect
Speaker 11: if I think of it as a client who can
Speaker 11: own exactly like our institutional clients, a direct position all
Speaker 11: the stocks in the major index. But on top of
Speaker 11: getting that benchmark turn for a very attractive price, we
Speaker 11: can also customize to their preferences and needs.
Speaker 12: They may be values, they may.
Speaker 11: Be exposures they want, and on top of that, we
Speaker 11: give them better tax treatment. So we give them the
Speaker 11: index return, but over the period of a year or
Speaker 11: more than a year, we're actually harvesting losses.
Speaker 12: Now.
Speaker 11: I know it sounds crazy to say losses are good
Speaker 11: for you, but you all know this, right. Muta funds
Speaker 11: are not super efficient, and so if you have gains
Speaker 11: in your muta funds and you have the benchmark urn
Speaker 11: plus some tax loses you can use in your direct account.
Speaker 12: You can wipe away a lot.
Speaker 11: Of the payments that you have to pay to the US.
Speaker 12: Government by parmage and the two in a portfolio.
Speaker 11: So advisors love that because that allows them to add
Speaker 11: in criminal value to investors.
Speaker 1: So one of the things I don't understand or I
Speaker 1: thought I understo about ETFs is low costs because not
Speaker 1: much has happened and there's no portfolio manager and research departments.
Speaker 1: So an active ETF, how do you square that with
Speaker 1: the low fees? Or our fees higher for active.
Speaker 11: So fees are generally higher for active products ETFs or
Speaker 11: any other kind. Having said that, the ETF structure allows
Speaker 11: you to structurally release gains, right, we can actually manage
Speaker 11: by tax slots. So when we have the opportunity to rebalance,
Speaker 11: or we have redemptions and subscriptions into the fund, we
Speaker 11: can actually utilize that to release gains that don't ultimately
Speaker 11: get worn by the investors. So it's structurally a better
Speaker 11: vehicle from a tax perspective, whether it's active or passive.
Speaker 1: So is the is there a snare where the mutual
Speaker 1: fund business does not just go away? I mean ETF
Speaker 1: you talk about the numbers and it's every single quarter.
Speaker 1: And then you've got mutual funds converting from mutual funds
Speaker 1: to ETFs. I mean, do why not need to go
Speaker 1: up to Boston like I did for thirty years just
Speaker 1: to visit Fidelity Wellington and all those people putingam.
Speaker 11: Well, listen, it's not an accident that you see all
Speaker 11: the large mutual f flayers, including ourselves, putting ETFs into
Speaker 11: the marketplace. Right, we're really responding to clients. So it's
Speaker 11: less about just what's inside the wrapper. It's about the
Speaker 11: vehicle itself, right, And if you think about the shift
Speaker 11: of fee based advisors, they love these vehicles. They're less
Speaker 11: expensive for them to buy. Even the active ones are
Speaker 11: generally slightly less expensive just because of the chassis is
Speaker 11: more efficient, right in terms of all the operating functionality
Speaker 11: that you need. So you know, for investors, it's a
Speaker 11: great solution right there. You know, think about it. It's
Speaker 11: the ultimate democratization of finance. There's one price, there's no
Speaker 11: share classes. Everyone gets the same thing, whether you're a
Speaker 11: large investor, small investor. It's fully transparent. You could trade
Speaker 11: it all day every day. Right, it's the ultimate democratization.
Speaker 11: You could buy on any platform. Technically you don't even
Speaker 11: need an advisor, although most clients want to have one
Speaker 11: to guide them through it. So for me, when I
Speaker 11: think about my thirteen year old, right, is she ever
Speaker 11: going to buy a much fund, maybe a money market fund,
Speaker 11: but she'll probably buy ETFs.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Stephanie, what kind of shifts have you been seeing
Speaker 5: in ETFs this year, whether it's particular types of flows
Speaker 5: just given the backdrop of the Federal Reserve and potentially
Speaker 5: maybe they're getting closer to the end of that rate
Speaker 5: hiking cycle.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 12: Absolutely.
Speaker 11: One of the conversations that intersects really between my money
Speaker 11: market business at Dreyfus and the ETF business that I
Speaker 11: run is exactly what you just said. It's fixed income
Speaker 11: and right now what we're seeing if you look at
Speaker 11: your to date is fix income ETFs have seen this
Speaker 11: kind of barbell in flows right where a long government
Speaker 11: intermedia core bond, you've seen a lot of flows there,
Speaker 11: but also in ultrashortytfs. We actually have an ultra ETF
Speaker 11: managed by our Dreyfus money market market team BKUI, and
Speaker 11: what we're seeing is clients are barbelling between kind of
Speaker 11: the long and the shorter end of the curve. But
Speaker 11: we're also seeing in the ultrashort space clients starting to
Speaker 11: extend duration now that the FED is approaching what appears
Speaker 11: to be the peak and terminal rates and starting to
Speaker 11: exten duration and looking to diversify from just the money
Speaker 11: market allocation into ultrashortytfs. And that's really the cash segmentation
Speaker 11: conversation that we're having with clients is where do you
Speaker 11: put your cash?
Speaker 12: Clients are very focused on not only where.
Speaker 11: They put it, but who's managing it and how they're
Speaker 11: managing it and the combination of debt sealing, net failures
Speaker 11: and terminal rates.
Speaker 1: What's the key topic that you're finding yourself having here
Speaker 1: at this insight conference.
Speaker 11: Well, I would say cash is sexy again, yep, right,
Speaker 11: we're at five percent yields gives no pun intended but
Speaker 11: it gives you a run for your money and any
Speaker 11: assea class.
Speaker 12: So that's clearly one.
Speaker 11: And again, how you segment it now that we're beyond
Speaker 11: the debt sealing debate? And then I think absolutely this
Speaker 11: combination of tax efficient and reasonably financially attractive you know,
Speaker 11: returns that you can get through ETFs and direct in
Speaker 11: mixing type vehicles. If you look at the advisors out
Speaker 11: on the floor here, Paul, these are the things that
Speaker 11: they're focused on, is how do I deliver extra value
Speaker 11: from my client in terms of you know, reasonable fee,
Speaker 11: is alpha generation tax, alpha asset location, as well as
Speaker 11: acid allocation.
Speaker 12: And these are the vehicles that do that.
Speaker 1: They're not just buying and selling bonds and stocks anymore.
Speaker 12: It's a different world, different.
Speaker 1: Exactly, all right, Stephanie, we really appreciate it talking about
Speaker 1: all that ETF stuff, and it is a story that
Speaker 1: just keeps on giving. Stephanie Pierce, CEO at Dreyfus, Melon
Speaker 1: and Exchange Trade of Funds at BNY Melling.
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape. Cats are live program Bloomberg
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Speaker 1: We are live from the World Center Mario in Orlando, Florida,
Speaker 1: at the B and Y Mellon Vergon Insight Conference. Two
Speaker 1: thousand members of the financial advice community gathered for learning,
Speaker 1: inspiration and some network and I see some networking going
Speaker 1: on right now at the lunch tables as people break
Speaker 1: between the various sessions. Let's talk markets here, let's get
Speaker 1: a broad view of the markets. We like to do
Speaker 1: that with the Fill, Orlando, chief equity strategist at Federator Hermes.
Speaker 1: He joins me here down in Orlando, Phil, Good to
Speaker 1: see you again. Here. We were talking off air about
Speaker 1: the lack of breath in this market. If you take
Speaker 1: the SPX up ten eleven percent and sp thew is
Speaker 1: basically flat. That's a problem.
Speaker 13: It's a huge problem, and it's been growing all year.
Speaker 13: The S and P five hundred from the beginning of
Speaker 13: the year now is up about ten or eleven percent.
Speaker 13: But if you look at what they refer to as
Speaker 13: the Magnificent seven in the technology industry, the seven big
Speaker 13: tech names Microsoft, Apple, In, Nvidia, Google, Facebook, Tesla, and Amazon,
Speaker 13: now I got them. All those stocks collectively are up
Speaker 13: fifty percent five zero percent. The other four hundred and
Speaker 13: ninety three stocks in the SMP five hundred are essentially
Speaker 13: break even, and those seven tech names are dramatically overbought.
Speaker 13: So someone that studies the market the way we have
Speaker 13: over the course of history, suggests that that maybe these
Speaker 13: stocks have gotten ahead of themselves. Maybe the AI hype
Speaker 13: is a little too frothy, and at some point over
Speaker 13: the course of the next couple of months, next cup quarters,
Speaker 13: there may be a bit of a reversion to the met.
Speaker 5: Phil This is Jess in New York. I wanted to
Speaker 5: jump in here and get your thoughts on You were
Speaker 5: just talking about this potentially being frothy when it comes
Speaker 5: to technology and growth shares. I know you're not a
Speaker 5: portfolio manager, you're an equity market strategist, But how exactly
Speaker 5: are you advising clients to potentially position or your thoughts
Speaker 5: as far as how the market could move moving forward
Speaker 5: obviously going into the second half of the year soon.
Speaker 9: So, Jess, that's a great question.
Speaker 13: And the way we've looked at the year is that
Speaker 13: we thought we would have a barbell shape performance year
Speaker 13: in the s and P. Five hundred, We thought we
Speaker 13: would start the year in great shape. The first quarter
Speaker 13: or two we have, we felt that there would potentially
Speaker 13: be some chop here in the middle of the year,
Speaker 13: and certainly the dichotomy between these seven technology stocks, and
Speaker 13: the rest of the market potentially is sowing those seeds.
Speaker 13: We think we end the year in pretty good shape.
Speaker 13: So if we're right that we potentially hit an air
Speaker 13: pocket here for any number of reasons, we can talk
Speaker 13: about the fundamentals that would suggest playing defense. That if
Speaker 13: growth has gotten ahead of itself, and we believe that
Speaker 13: they have value stocks are extraordinarily cheap. They're underperformed growth
Speaker 13: by about forty or forty five percent right now in
Speaker 13: terms of valuation. So we like domestic large cap and
Speaker 13: small cap value stocks. We like international both emerging markets
Speaker 13: as well as developed markets.
Speaker 9: We like cash.
Speaker 13: We like bonds as a potential flight to quality as
Speaker 13: the economy slows later in the year. So the plan
Speaker 13: is play defense. There may be some rockiness to the
Speaker 13: market here over the next couple of months, next couple
Speaker 13: of quarters, and the idea is, let's try to preserve
Speaker 13: some capital and look for an opportunity to re enter
Speaker 13: some of these stocks at better price points later.
Speaker 9: In the year.
Speaker 1: How about bad valuation here? I mean, I guess we
Speaker 1: have to adjust for those seven names, but just broadly
Speaker 1: defined valuation are we I guess when you back out
Speaker 1: those seven big names that have just kind of ripped
Speaker 1: this year. Is how's the market looking in terms of valuation?
Speaker 13: Well, overall, you're probably looking at about a twenty multiple,
Speaker 13: and you know we'd be a lot more comfortable in
Speaker 13: the mid teams. Ye, But some of these, you know,
Speaker 13: the big high flying tech names that we talked about
Speaker 13: in video, what are they selling thirty forty times forward revenues?
Speaker 13: You know, the the numbers, the nosebleed numbers are just
Speaker 13: making us nervous. Now for older guys like me and you, Paul,
Speaker 13: a lot of gray hair here. You know, I remember
Speaker 13: the cryptos, not a but a couple of years ago.
Speaker 13: I remember the Y two K build up in you know,
Speaker 13: nineteen ninety nine, early two thousand and I had a
Speaker 13: young colleague sent me a text the other day telling me, Phil,
Speaker 13: you don't understand these seven technology stocks, these the defensive stocks.
Speaker 13: Now it's a new error, it's a new economy. And
Speaker 13: that was exactly what they were telling us in nineteen
Speaker 13: ninety nine and early two thousand and we remember how
Speaker 13: that ended.
Speaker 5: Phil, I have to ask and follow up because you
Speaker 5: had talked about when it comes to value stocks, liking
Speaker 5: those bonds. But then you brought up cash, and I
Speaker 5: noticed that money market mutual funds, you've actually seen the
Speaker 5: fastest piece of flow since July twenty twenty, over the
Speaker 5: past thirteen weeks. And you were talking about how to
Speaker 5: preserve capital and re enter later in the year. What
Speaker 5: do you need to see in order to potentially use
Speaker 5: that cash and put it back to work in the
Speaker 5: equity market.
Speaker 13: Well, right now, we like cash. Cash is a real
Speaker 13: asset class. Again, it's yielding five percent, so why wouldn't
Speaker 13: you like cash? But if the market over the course
Speaker 13: of the next couple of quarters were to hit an
Speaker 13: air pocket of you know, ten fifteen percent, and we
Speaker 13: felt better about the fundamental outlook from an inflation standpoint,
Speaker 13: from a or a reserve standpoint, from an economic growth
Speaker 13: incorporate uring standpoint, then you've utilized that cash as one
Speaker 13: of your defensive tools to preserve capital, and then you
Speaker 13: can get more offensive later this year or the beginning
Speaker 13: of next year when the fundamentals look better and when
Speaker 13: the valuations look more attractive. So I'm not suggesting that
Speaker 13: that cash at five percent is an offensive tool, but
Speaker 13: certainly in this kind of an environment, if you think
Speaker 13: that that growth stocks are ahead of themselves. Then cash
Speaker 13: potentially could be one of the vehicles you we utilized
Speaker 13: to try to preserve capital.
Speaker 5: And I'm glad you brought up a yield, especially when
Speaker 5: you're talking about being around five percent, very different dynamic,
Speaker 5: right than compared to what investors had seen over the
Speaker 5: past decade or so. So then would we need to
Speaker 5: see a shift with what we're seeing in yield in
Speaker 5: order for investors to move away from either cash, money
Speaker 5: market funds and things of that nature and to move
Speaker 5: more aggressively back into equities.
Speaker 13: Well, so now you get into the question of the
Speaker 13: underlying fundamentals in terms of inflation, and our view is
Speaker 13: peaked and it is starting to come down, but it's
Speaker 13: coming down at a very very gradual pace. And then
Speaker 13: that raises the question, what's the Federal Reserve going to do.
Speaker 13: We've got a big meeting coming up next Wednesday. You know,
Speaker 13: our best guess right now is that the Fed goes
Speaker 13: on pause at you know, next week's meeting. But given
Speaker 13: the fact that the Core Personal Consumption Expenditure Index and
Speaker 13: the last set of data actually ticked up. We saw
Speaker 13: very hot jobs report, non farm payrolls just last Friday.
Speaker 13: We've got another big CPI report coming out next Tuesday.
Speaker 13: If the data continues to run hot, the Federal Reserve's
Speaker 13: bias has got to be that they need to maintain
Speaker 13: an elevated level of interest rates. That the immaculate pivot
Speaker 13: thesis is one that we do not subscribe to. The
Speaker 13: Federal Reserve has told us and their last sep Yeah,
Speaker 13: I think we're going to get core inflation back to
Speaker 13: two percent, and they put a date on it. We
Speaker 13: think that by the end of calendar twenty twenty five
Speaker 13: will be there. If that's two and a half years
Speaker 13: from now. The Federal Reserve is not cutting interest rates
Speaker 13: next week if they think it's going to be two
Speaker 13: and a half years before they get inflation back to
Speaker 13: the level that they're comfortable with.
Speaker 1: All right, Phil, as always great to hear from you,
Speaker 1: great to get your opinions. Lots of conviction there as
Speaker 1: always Phil Orlando, chief equity strategists at Federator Atturnemies, joining
Speaker 1: me live here in the Insight conference from Orlando, Florida.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcasts. You can
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