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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening the stuff Mom never told you. Now, today we

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Speaker 1: want to dive into a topic that you probably already

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Speaker 1: have some firsthand knowledge of. You probably seen it on TV,

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Speaker 1: seen it in movies, or at least heard about those movies.

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Speaker 1: And that is stalking. Now, we all know stalking is

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Speaker 1: no joke. But then why do we always see stalking

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Speaker 1: in romantic comedies or in lighthearted movies and it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be portrayed as funny or sweet or endearing. Right,

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Speaker 1: it is such a common troupe and it's it's common

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Speaker 1: as a problem, a real life problem in the United States, right, Bridget, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is really common. According to John Carol University, one

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Speaker 1: in six women and one in nineteen men in the

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Speaker 1: United States have experienced stalking during their lifetime, and about

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Speaker 1: of stalking victims so that they went to the police

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Speaker 1: at least once regarding the stocking. Yeah, and unfortunately it's

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Speaker 1: really difficult to report or prosecute no matter where you are.

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Speaker 1: Of American women just accept being stalked as a fact

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Speaker 1: of life and a three per to report their stalker

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Speaker 1: to the police over fifteen times and nothing gets done.

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Speaker 1: The effectiveness of restraining orders is up for debate too,

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Speaker 1: because specifically in cases of stalking, the stalker might see

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Speaker 1: it as a challenge or a betrayal, and up to

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Speaker 1: sevent of the time they violate the restraining order, the

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Speaker 1: stalker does. And I'm not saying don't get one by

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Speaker 1: any means, I'm just saying that, unfortunately they're not as

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Speaker 1: successful as you might hope they would be. And also

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Speaker 1: they can be difficult to get. They can be expensive.

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Speaker 1: If the stalker is from a different state, you might

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Speaker 1: have to go to that state and go to that

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Speaker 1: court um to get the restraining order. It's just it's

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Speaker 1: really complicated and unfortunately difficult problem to solve. Well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things that I think makes it

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Speaker 1: that much more complicated is that we are constantly being

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Speaker 1: that these messages that give us a signal that stalking

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Speaker 1: is cute or funny, or acceptable, or romantic or sympathetic.

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Speaker 1: And so, as you just pointed out, we don't take

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Speaker 1: stalking seriously as a crime, and it can be really

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Speaker 1: really hard to do something about it if you're being stalked.

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Speaker 1: But that can also be because we are being taught

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Speaker 1: to see it as something that's really not that bad.

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Speaker 1: And the data is pretty clear that by consuming these

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Speaker 1: movies and these messages all the time, it does warp

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Speaker 1: how we see something that's really scary and really serious. Yeah, especially,

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Speaker 1: I feel like we have a lot of phrases for it, like, um, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's just being persistent, or he just had to wear down,

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Speaker 1: Like there's this idea that your hard efforts will be

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Speaker 1: ordered if you just keep trying. She's gonna see the light.

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Speaker 1: She is the woman. It's usually a woman being stalked.

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Speaker 1: Um is a prize to be one. And this is

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Speaker 1: a plotline we have seen over and over again, and

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Speaker 1: people do kind of consider it romantic. It normalizes it

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Speaker 1: in a normalizing is definitely the word I would use.

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Speaker 1: And even beyond that, there are so many real life

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Speaker 1: examples of this. Last month, when a Maryland seventeen year

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Speaker 1: old shot and killed his high school girlfriend, there was

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Speaker 1: a headline that called him a quote love sick teenager. Now,

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Speaker 1: in this headline, they weren't actually quoting like a bystander

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Speaker 1: or a classmate. This was an editorial choice to label

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Speaker 1: him as love sick. And you know, he committed a crime,

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Speaker 1: a violent scary, terrible crime against a young girl. And

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Speaker 1: to say that he was love sick. I think kind

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Speaker 1: of romanticizes behavior that should not be romanticized. It's very

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Speaker 1: serious and very wrong and very troubling. But yet when

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Speaker 1: they do that, it since the sig know that it's okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that reminds me. Um. Up until the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: there was no official legal definition in the United States

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Speaker 1: of what stalking is, and it was called, among other things, um,

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Speaker 1: love sickness, or infatuation, which sounds much nicer than what

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Speaker 1: it really is. And perhaps we should back up a

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Speaker 1: bit and um talk about what we do define as

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Speaker 1: stalking here in the US. Yeah, that's a good idea.

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Speaker 1: So according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, they defined

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Speaker 1: stalking as making unwanted phone calls, sending unslicited or unwanted

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Speaker 1: letters and emails, following or spying on the victim, showing

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Speaker 1: up at places without a legitimate reason, waiting at places

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Speaker 1: for the victim, leaving unwanted items, presents, gifts, flowers, and

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Speaker 1: posting information or spreading rumors about the victim on the internet,

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Speaker 1: in public places or by word of mouth. Yeah, none

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Speaker 1: of that sounds good. Or romantic. Doesn't none of that

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Speaker 1: sounds good of romantic. But yet those exact, exact, exact

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Speaker 1: scenarios play out in movies that are meant to be

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Speaker 1: romantic or funny or sweet all the time. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: are you a fan of real m comms romantic comedies?

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Speaker 1: Bridget Oh what a good question. I want to be

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Speaker 1: the kind of person who says no, But I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: not above them. I think I like some of them.

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Speaker 1: I like them when they're um like I love ten

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Speaker 1: things I hate about you, I like some of them.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm not someone who is like watching them

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Speaker 1: all the time. Um, I love um Nancy Myers movies

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Speaker 1: you know, think you know those movies where it's like

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Speaker 1: Diane Keaton is wearing an oversized sweater and she's divorced,

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Speaker 1: but she wants to get back out there. Like those

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Speaker 1: kind of movies. I love the host, but she's always

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Speaker 1: wearing like a like a nice like beige tunic. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm getting a real sense for like the

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Speaker 1: fashion style you aspire to. Yeah, Diane Keaton divorced and

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Speaker 1: getting back out there is my fashion, like mood board

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Speaker 1: that is such a specific and beautiful fashion I hope you.

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Speaker 1: I hope you make this board and call it that

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Speaker 1: me too. So do you like romantic comedies? No, not really. Um,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends that do, and I

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Speaker 1: find I just get kind of bored watching them, or

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Speaker 1: I don't really care. I like a very specific type

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Speaker 1: of tragic romantic comedy, I think where they never end

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Speaker 1: up together, like Five Days of Summer. Yeah. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: been a while since I've seen that. I'm thinking more

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Speaker 1: of like, um, weird horror shows specifically, like TV they

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Speaker 1: just kind of never have because there's zombies, like you

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Speaker 1: want a date but work, there's some vampires involved kind

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Speaker 1: of things. Well, your question actually makes me think because

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Speaker 1: when doing research for this episode, a lot of movies

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Speaker 1: that I actually I am a big fan of do

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Speaker 1: you have these troubling aspects. So I don't want to

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Speaker 1: make it seem like, oh, I've I've never enjoyed this movie.

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Speaker 1: These are movies that I don't like and I'm taking

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Speaker 1: a stand against them. What actually makes it sort of

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Speaker 1: more pervasive is the fact that I think of myself

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Speaker 1: as someone who is critical of the media that I consume.

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Speaker 1: Yet movies that I enjoy have these really toxic gross

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Speaker 1: depictions of of stalker ish behavior. So let's break down

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Speaker 1: some of these movies that maybe have some troubling or

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Speaker 1: toxic behavior kind of masked as as sweet fun. Um,

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Speaker 1: have you ever seen the movie? Say anything? No, but

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Speaker 1: I know exactly what seen that everyone knows from that movie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so say anything. It's probably my favorite movie when I

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Speaker 1: was in junior high high school if you've never seen it. Basically, Um,

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Speaker 1: John Cusack is Lloyd Dobbler. He's this sort of new

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Speaker 1: wave sensitive guy. You know, he wears a trench coat,

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Speaker 1: he's into music. I think he does kickboxing anyway. He's

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Speaker 1: in love with Diane Court Diane Court Woe as she

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Speaker 1: sometimes named in the movie. But she's sort of bookish

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Speaker 1: and sweet and a little bit shy and they date

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Speaker 1: for while. Um, she calls things off with him, and

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Speaker 1: he tail spins the same the way that you might

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Speaker 1: expect in any movie. There is a montage where he

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Speaker 1: is driving around the city talking into a tape recorder,

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Speaker 1: presumably to her, And so there's there's like twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: maybe a twenty minute scene where he's driving around talking

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Speaker 1: into a tape recorder being like, you know, I I

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Speaker 1: gave you my heart, you gave me a pen, because

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Speaker 1: when she breaks up with him, she gives him this pen,

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Speaker 1: and you're thinking, like, wait a minute, is he gonna

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Speaker 1: mail her this box of tapes he's made creepy? So

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Speaker 1: that's one. So you haven't even seen the movie. When

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Speaker 1: you think of saying anything, what is the most iconic

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Speaker 1: scene that comes to mind? Guy in a trench coat

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Speaker 1: standing outside boom box over his head in your eyes

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Speaker 1: playing that's right exactly. So you haven't even seen the movie,

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Speaker 1: but you know that scene because it's so iconic because

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Speaker 1: on the poster. I used to have that poster in

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Speaker 1: my room when I was in middle school. So basically

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Speaker 1: what's going on in that scene is they break up.

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Speaker 1: So at Peter Gabriel song is the song that's playing

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Speaker 1: when they first are intimate together. So after she calls

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Speaker 1: things off, he drives to her house and holds up

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Speaker 1: a boom box playing that song and it's meant to

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Speaker 1: be this, and you in the scene, you see her

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Speaker 1: react to this like she looks very She's not like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so lovely. She looks she

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Speaker 1: doesn't look happy about this. You know, I grew up

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Speaker 1: with that poster on my wall, idealizing that as the

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Speaker 1: perfect expression of desire and love and romance. And really,

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Speaker 1: if someone did that in real life, I would be

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Speaker 1: calling the cops at Yeah, that's a that's a bit

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Speaker 1: much for sure. Another big one that I ran into

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Speaker 1: love actually, that you also noted. Okay, so Love Actually,

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Speaker 1: I've actually only seen once and I only liked If

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Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, it's several storylines happening simultaneously, and

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Speaker 1: I only liked the one with Bill nih in his agents. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He's like this washed up singer and his agent is

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Speaker 1: trying to get him back back into business by getting

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Speaker 1: him to sing a Christmas song. It's the least romantic

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Speaker 1: of the bunch um arguably. But there's one that you, again,

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Speaker 1: even if you haven't seen the movie, you're probably familiar with.

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Speaker 1: Where um the guy who's in The Walking Dead. Now

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Speaker 1: he shows up outside I believe Kira Knightley's um apartment

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Speaker 1: and she's with she just got married and so she's

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Speaker 1: with her husband, who happens to be Walking Dead guys

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Speaker 1: best friend, and he she opens the door, she hear's

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Speaker 1: not here. Knightley opens the door and here's the Walking

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Speaker 1: dead guy. He's got like a series of big note cards,

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Speaker 1: and the first one it says something like don't say anything.

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Speaker 1: And he goes through them and it's entirely inappropriates like

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Speaker 1: I'm in love with you and I would do anything

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Speaker 1: for you. I can't remember exactly what it says, but essentially, Annie,

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Speaker 1: to me, you are perfect. That's like the lap card. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and her husband, this guy's best friend is a room

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Speaker 1: away and it's just kind of creepy, and she gives

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Speaker 1: him a kiss on the cheeks. She smiles. It's a

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Speaker 1: strange kind of rewarding of this, in my opinion, very

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Speaker 1: unsettling behavior. Perhaps inappropriate a good word. Yeah, Okay, So

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Speaker 1: I could do an entire podcast series on how much

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Speaker 1: I Hate Love. Actually, maybe I should, because it's a

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Speaker 1: terrible movie for so many reasons, not the least of

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Speaker 1: which is the fact that this guy is creepiest. Also,

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Speaker 1: earlier in the movie, he is supposed to be taking

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Speaker 1: video footage of her wedding, and when she watches all

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Speaker 1: the tapes, she realizes that the only footage he got

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Speaker 1: was close ups of her face, so he kind of

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Speaker 1: ruined her wedding by my like ruining the wedding, not

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Speaker 1: to mention the fact that Alan Rickman's character in that

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Speaker 1: movie gives Emma Thompson a Joni Mitchell CD invites his

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Speaker 1: his like secretary and necklace. There's so much going wrong

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Speaker 1: in that movie. Um, Laura Lenny is framed as this

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Speaker 1: like terrible monster for having the audacity for wanting to

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Speaker 1: take care of her disabled brother. You know, that's terrible

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Speaker 1: pers weird stuff around women in that movie that women

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Speaker 1: are you know, it's a bad movie, But the point

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Speaker 1: is is that it's also very stockery. And yeah, at

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Speaker 1: the end when he does the bit with the cards,

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Speaker 1: the audience is not meant to say, Kira Knightley might

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Speaker 1: want to call the police. You're meant to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's so he's loved lorn. This is really you know,

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Speaker 1: he's been carrying a torch for her and he had

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Speaker 1: to watch her get married to his maid, and oh,

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Speaker 1: you really root for him? No, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: not a healthy depiction of how adults deal with things

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Speaker 1: like this. And it's the fact that we and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I hate love actually, but I remember watching

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Speaker 1: the movie in the theater and understanding that we were

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Speaker 1: meant to feel sympathy and you know, root for this character. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because if he has such strong feelings, then he should

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Speaker 1: therefore be entitled to some kind of reciprocal feelings from

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Speaker 1: a woman. It's kind of I always got that that vibe. Oh,

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Speaker 1: and here's another one I haven't seen. Clearly, I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen any rom coms. But maybe you could talk about

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Speaker 1: The Notebook. Oh, could I talk about The note Another

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Speaker 1: movie that I feel like when I saw it, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is cute, but then when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this is weird. Okay, So in the Notebook,

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Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it, you're you're probably it's you,

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Speaker 1: probably just you and like one of the persons that

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Speaker 1: I've seen it because it's on TV constantly. But The

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Speaker 1: Notebook is these two characters, um Ali who's played by

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Speaker 1: Rachel McAdams and Noah, who's played by Brian Gosling. And

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Speaker 1: so basically they meet Ali is dating somebody else, I think,

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Speaker 1: engaged to somebody else, are about to be engaged to

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Speaker 1: somebody else, And when they meet, they meet a carnival.

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Speaker 1: Noah hangs off of the railing of the ferris wheel

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Speaker 1: and jokingly but also very seemingly seriously threatens to kill himself,

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Speaker 1: threatens to let go of this railing if she doesn't

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Speaker 1: go on a date with him, and everybody is like,

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Speaker 1: go on the date, go on the date, just so

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Speaker 1: that he, you know, doesn't do this, And again that's

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Speaker 1: meant to be sort of funny, and that that's the matter,

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Speaker 1: is she does not seem that keen in the beginning

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Speaker 1: to be interested in him. And you know, we could

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Speaker 1: talk all day about the dynamics of heterosexual dating, but

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Speaker 1: in these movies, that's that that seems to be a tenant.

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Speaker 1: That's the woman is expressing this interest, and rather than

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Speaker 1: the guy accepting that and like dropping it and finding

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Speaker 1: somebody else and moving on, tries and tries and tries again,

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Speaker 1: kind of weighs her down. And that's exactly what happens

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Speaker 1: in the Notebook. Eventually she becomes engaged to someone else

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Speaker 1: and he writes her a letter every day for a year. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think her mother is intercepting these letters and so

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Speaker 1: she doesn't actually get them. Don't quote me on that.

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Speaker 1: I might have that it's been a medicine. I've seen it,

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Speaker 1: this romanticizing of a guy not being able to let

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Speaker 1: it go and not being able to move on. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I get why that's supposed to be romantic.

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Speaker 1: I get that, you know, I just supposed to think, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's pining for her, But in actuality, this is someone who,

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Speaker 1: for a year for someone he didn't really know that well,

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Speaker 1: kept I kept this, kept this alive in a way

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Speaker 1: that doesn't seem very healthy. He boy, he buys and

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Speaker 1: restores a house for her, gets his picture in the

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Speaker 1: paper with this house specifically to sort of, you know,

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Speaker 1: impress her. All of these things that spanned a year

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Speaker 1: for someone he doesn't even really know that well. Like,

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Speaker 1: that's my kicker that if in real life you had

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Speaker 1: an encounter with someone that didn't that lasted for a

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Speaker 1: couple of days and then they they you know, drifted

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Speaker 1: out of your life, it would be not okay to

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Speaker 1: continue pursuing nowm for a year. But that's what he did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: My facial expressions were a roller coaster there because I

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Speaker 1: don't know what happens. And it's one of those things

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Speaker 1: that if you just hear you don't have the context

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Speaker 1: of acute Ryan Gosling and all the music telling you

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Speaker 1: to feel a certain way that sounds terrible. That sounds

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Speaker 1: frightening someone buying a house and writing a letter and

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Speaker 1: like threatening to kill themselves if you don't go on

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Speaker 1: a date. That doesn't sound very romantic. Well, you know

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Speaker 1: what it sounds like those tenets of stocking that we

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Speaker 1: started it. Yeah, that's exactly what it sounds like, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, just because you put some some you know,

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Speaker 1: violins and some you know shots of people looking very

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Speaker 1: dapper in their like nineteen twenties get ups and you

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Speaker 1: know it's by a lake, doesn't doesn't make it less

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Speaker 1: what um? You used a phrase that wear her down?

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Speaker 1: That's also in the Big Bang Theory. One of the

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Speaker 1: characters said, eventually she got married to one of the

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Speaker 1: other characters because he just wore down in the studio

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Speaker 1: audience laughs and laughs. It's like, is that great? So well,

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Speaker 1: that's not even romantic, I know. I mean, who wants

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Speaker 1: to think of That's the thing I think these movies

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Speaker 1: they repackage things that are not romantic, things that are

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Speaker 1: sad or pathetic or scary in ways that are meant

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Speaker 1: to be sweet or lighthearted. Because yeah, if you were

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Speaker 1: with someone and they've said, oh, I'm with this person

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Speaker 1: because not because I love them, but because eventually I

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Speaker 1: just lost. I just got tired of fighting it, and

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Speaker 1: so I said yes, wouldn't you be hurt? Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: not a that's not a romantic thing. No, And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a repackaging of rejection, of not being able

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Speaker 1: to accept no as an answer and then feeling like you,

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Speaker 1: if you just keep keep pursuing this person, you're meant

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Speaker 1: to be together. She just doesn't know, and I know

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Speaker 1: how I know it. Unrequited love quotes for me personally heavy,

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Speaker 1: heavy crushed will say, I know what that feels like,

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Speaker 1: and it's miserable. And you think, if only we had

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Speaker 1: this right opportunity, I know this other person would see

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Speaker 1: that we're meant to be. But no, probably not. Like

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Speaker 1: if you care about someone at all, you have to

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Speaker 1: appreciate that they have their own boundaries and they're free

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Speaker 1: to make rejection and it sucks, but that's life for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we maybe shouldn't be giving out all these signals

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Speaker 1: that the proper and healthy way to deal with projection

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Speaker 1: is not letting it go, and is to send a

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Speaker 1: letter every day for a year or to you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, show up outside of our room with a

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Speaker 1: boom box, right, Like, say, anything would probably be a

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Speaker 1: less good movie if when Diane Court says I don't

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Speaker 1: want to see you anymore, Lloyd Dobbler is sad for

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Speaker 1: a couple of days and then you know, moves on

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Speaker 1: and find someone else, Like it wouldn't be Maybe it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be as good of a movie, but that's a

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Speaker 1: healthier way to depict these kinds of things. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: And we still have a plenty of examples, including another

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Speaker 1: movie I've Never seen Something about Mary. Yeah, yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: talk more about that after this quick break and we're back.

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Speaker 1: So you've never seen Something's Something about Mary? No? Okay,

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Speaker 1: Well this actually surprises me because I would feel like

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Speaker 1: that's a movie that you would have seen. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a goofy like UM comedy seems

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Speaker 1: like um. I mean again, it's it's when you unpack it,

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Speaker 1: it's very toxic. But it was like a very like UM.

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Speaker 1: It came out around the same time as a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other kind of like broy comedies. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: like your Tommy Boys and your Adam Sandler movies things

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Speaker 1: like that, So it was like a big blockbuster movie

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Speaker 1: when it came out, I remember that very really Okay,

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Speaker 1: So if you haven't seen it, basically, Cameron Diaz is

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Speaker 1: this lovely girl that everyone loves, everyone get. Everyone who

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Speaker 1: meets her falls in love with her, and basically Ben

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Speaker 1: Stiller met her in high school and I think they

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Speaker 1: went to prom together. But in the end, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to spoil it, but something very very unfortunate happens

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Speaker 1: to him on prom night and they're never able to

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Speaker 1: consummate their love or you know exactly. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to give it away. If you haven't seen it, let's

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Speaker 1: just say that it involves a zipper, like a pants

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Speaker 1: zipper in the bathroom, and it's a it's a very

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Speaker 1: intense scene, we'll put it that way. And so basically

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Speaker 1: this happened when they were in high school and they've

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Speaker 1: both grown up blah blah blah, and he's never forgotten her,

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Speaker 1: so he hires a private investigator who's played by Matt

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Speaker 1: Dillon to track her down. Matt Dylan ends up falling

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Speaker 1: in love with her as well, and so because he's

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Speaker 1: a private investigator, is basically also stalking her. And later

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Speaker 1: it's revealed that another character has been basically it's it's complicated,

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Speaker 1: but later it's revealed that another character has also been

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Speaker 1: stocking her, and it's basically created a fake persona that's

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Speaker 1: more to her liking in order to be around her.

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Speaker 1: And so obviously this is a very convoluted plot, but

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Speaker 1: the audience is meant to root for Ben Stiller because

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Speaker 1: he's supposed to be the good guy, the guy who's

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Speaker 1: like love is pure when you compare him to Matt Dylan,

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Speaker 1: who is who outwardly appears more creepy and appears to

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Speaker 1: be more of a gross person, but the reality is

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Speaker 1: both of them are doing something that's really up right,

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Speaker 1: Like it's up to meet a girl in high school

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Speaker 1: ten years later higher a higher a private investigator to

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Speaker 1: track her down like that is not okay. But yet,

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Speaker 1: because he is compared with someone who is more explicitly

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Speaker 1: creepy and gross and weird, we're meant to be like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: Ben Stellar actually loves her. Yeah, it's kind of similar

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Speaker 1: to the nice guy troupe when you think about it, Um,

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Speaker 1: did she end up? Wasn't the like ending of that movie?

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Speaker 1: She was dating Brett farve Y. Yeah, I spoiled it

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Speaker 1: for her, But I knew that, and I haven't seen it,

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Speaker 1: And this movie also came out like that's true. Ago,

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Speaker 1: if you haven't seen there something about Mary, you're probably

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Speaker 1: not going to see it, and like you deserve to

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Speaker 1: have it spoiled. You've had a long time, right, And

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, and somehow I knew that. So um.

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Speaker 1: The Graduate is another good example of this. M Passengers.

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Speaker 1: Did you see Passengers? I didn't see it. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to see it because the trailer made it seem lighthearted

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Speaker 1: and you know, there's a robot butler, which I thought

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Speaker 1: was but then when I read reviews and actually unpacked

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Speaker 1: what's going on, I was so grossed out that I

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Speaker 1: that I did not want to see it, And in fact,

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Speaker 1: that are called thinking how did they market this movie

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Speaker 1: in such a lighthearted, playful way. I remember the trailer

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Speaker 1: saying something like it's the sexiest movie you'll see all season,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I see a sexy movie.

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Speaker 1: And when I read the actual breakout of the plot,

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Speaker 1: I was horrified. Yeah, I watched it on a plane,

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Speaker 1: and I remember having this kind of disjointed because I

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Speaker 1: could tell I was supposed to want them to end

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Speaker 1: up together. But I just couldn't get behind it. I

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Speaker 1: was so furious that Chris Pratt's character had done this thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so for those of haven't seen it, breakdown what happened.

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Speaker 1: So spoiler alert if you haven't seen Passenger, Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: Chris Pratt. It's I don't know how many people. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are on this ship in space

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Speaker 1: going somewhere on a journey, and Chris Pratt wakes up

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Speaker 1: like a hundred years before you're supposed to because they're

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Speaker 1: all in hyper sleep or whatever you call that when

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Speaker 1: you put to sleep in space so that you don't

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Speaker 1: age for the duration of the journey, wake up at

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Speaker 1: the same age you were when you went to sleep. Um,

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Speaker 1: so he wakes up super early. No one else is awake.

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Speaker 1: He can't fix the problem, so he's just hanging out

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Speaker 1: with this robot butler that she mentioned. He's getting drunk

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Speaker 1: with vodka every night, he's growing a beard. He is

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Speaker 1: super lonely. So you're supposed to and you do. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's terrible. But he has a robot butler. He does.

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Speaker 1: But I guess the robot butler I can only get

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Speaker 1: you so far. I remember liking the robot butler um.

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Speaker 1: But so he he starts to explore the passengers because

425
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: you can pull up UM information about them, data about them,

426
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: and he finds Jennifer Lawrence's character, who's an author, and

427
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: he goes through all of her her files and he decides,

428
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: I really would think I like this girl, and you know,

429
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: I bet she'd like me too. I think we'd fit.

430
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: And he wakes her up, and this is ten years

431
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: in so she's going to he's gonna be ninety years

432
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: before they get there. She's going to die before they

433
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: get there. And at one point the movie, I remember

434
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: her saying, you've murdered me. This is a death sentence,

435
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: and I thought, yeah, kind of. And eventually they fall

436
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,959
Speaker 1: in love and I just would never get over it.

437
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: That's mm hmm. So that almost seems to be like

438
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: a mix of a lot of these different tropes, right,

439
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: nice guy who does something creepy but out of pure love,

440
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, wearing her down, because if you're on a

441
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: spaceship forever with someone would be eventually you're like, well, yeah,

442
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: what do you do? Be mad forever that he's basically

443
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 1: giving you a death sentence. Yeah, and you've got no

444
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: one else to talk to except for that robot Butler.

445
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: That's true, and I believe I remember they would they

446
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: had separate times when they would visit the robot Butler

447
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: because they were mad at each other for about thirty

448
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: minutes of a two hour films. I want to spin

449
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: off with the robot Butler where he doesn't kill anybody

450
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: and he has he has healthy relationships with other women

451
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 1: or mad and robots whoever you a robot gender by

452
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: an area up in here. A movie where you know,

453
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 1: he has a relationship with a robot another robot, and

454
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: that robot decides it's over, and he, you know, deals

455
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: with it in a healthy way. It's a better movie.

456
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: We should make this movie. I'm sure Hollywood would be

457
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: all about getting that produced. I agree, But Hollywood had

458
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: no problem producing a little film slash book series. You

459
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: might have heard of Twilight, and Twilight is a very

460
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: good example of stalker as love. Yeah. So I haven't

461
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: seen Twilight all the way through. I've seen it in

462
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: chunks when it's on TBS and I'm over like in

463
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: the middle, and then I saw the end, and then

464
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: I may be the first part of a different Twilight too.

465
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: I feel like all together. I get the gipsy, I

466
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: would say, you probably did. Um, I have. I tried

467
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: to read the books and then I couldn't get through

468
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: the first one, which is very rare for me. Um.

469
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: And I went to see the first movie when it

470
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: came out in theaters with my friends who were into it,

471
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: and I remember clearly laughing at one part that I

472
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: was not supposed to laugh at in this little girl

473
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: in front of me turned around and said, got you Okay,

474
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: I don't mean this pariage. Um, it's not my thing. Um.

475
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: And there is some very creepy undertones in it. I

476
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,719
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I the author, Stephanie Meyer, wrote a

477
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: prequel slash happening at the same time as the first one,

478
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: but from Edwards point of view. Book. I can't remember

479
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: it's called. But there's a scene where he's watching Bella sleep.

480
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: You know, as you do, Edward, Yes, Edward the vampire

481
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: you're on Team Edward. Do you know you want him

482
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: to get with Bella? He's watching her sleep and he

483
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: thinks to himself, you know this is creepy, that's kind

484
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: of stalkery. I shouldn't do this, but he keeps doing it.

485
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: Nine after night and then um, one night bellow wakes

486
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: up and she's kind of flattered by it. Oh you

487
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: watching me sleep? It is creepy and weird. Um. Yeah.

488
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: And I was talking with Bridget earlier there's this whole

489
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: thing I want to talk about another episode of women

490
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 1: following it and falling in love with monsters that kind

491
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: of represents like sex and your sexual desire being this

492
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: monstrous thing if you haven't gotten the memo already. I

493
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: really like horror movies, books, and I have a lot

494
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: of thoughts about them. But um, not that Twilight is

495
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: particularly scary. Apart from the stalker. Um, there's also Angel

496
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: and Buffy. Um, that's one that I I like that

497
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: it's toxic when really, when you think about it, yeah,

498
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: when you break it down, it's a little bit not cool.

499
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: What's funny to me is that oftentimes if you reverse

500
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: these tropes and it's a woman doing the same behavior

501
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: that the men do, it's not romantic at all. It's creepy.

502
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: One of my favorite genres of movie is movies where

503
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: and it's so cheesy and campy, and I know it's awful,

504
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: but movies where like a woman, you know, stock like

505
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: she wants to kill another woman because she like she

506
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: stole my I want to still her family. She sild

507
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: my family, like single white female. I've seen it a

508
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: hundred times, unforgiven, unforgettable. Um really, any movie where it's

509
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: a woman who was like trying to take the take

510
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: the place of another woman, I'm in. I don't know

511
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: what it is. I'm so there for it, and I'm

512
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: I've seen them all in the theater, like alone on

513
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: a Tuesday. I'm so into it when that behavior is

514
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: displayed by a woman, Like if a woman is watching

515
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: a man sleep like the guy was doing in Twilight,

516
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: the audience would be meant to understand this is disturbing.

517
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting how the same behavior in films,

518
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: when it's displayed by a woman is pretty much universally

519
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: accepted as scary or she's she's unhinged, like something's wrong

520
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: with her, but when it's a man, it's then able

521
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: to be packaged as romantic, right, And I think that

522
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: has something to do with, um, the norms of she's

523
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: the woman doing a stalker thing, is she's breaking the

524
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: norms And it kind of reminds me, on a lesser

525
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: serious note of I had a friend who was very

526
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: aggressive and pursuing this guy that she had a crush on,

527
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: and not in like a I would say, not in

528
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: a creepy way, but she was just very bored with

529
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: her um romantic intentions. And I remember overhearing said guy

530
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: talking to his friend and say, like, she's too aggressive,

531
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: she's too forward. I don't like that. In my mind,

532
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: she was just breaking the norm and that same behavior

533
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: from him would have been like proper courtship behavior. But

534
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of amplified here and the same thing,

535
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: and it's not just um in in movies or TV.

536
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: Walmart had a shirt that read um. Some call it stalking,

537
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: I call it love a couple of years ago, which

538
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: is very creepy and um there. It's in songs too,

539
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: including one of my Ley's favorite songs of all time,

540
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: The Police Every Breath You Take. I hate song. It's creepy.

541
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: It is so creepy. I think it's meant to be creepy.

542
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: But then they used it in Top Gun as a

543
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: very romantic for for a very romantic scene. Yeah, it's

544
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: really creepy. And I actually looked up what the song

545
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: was about and what what the you know, what was

546
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: going on when Steing wrote the song. Basically, Sting says

547
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: that he wrote this song after breaking up with someone

548
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: and then starting to date this person's best friend who

549
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: lives next door, and how kind of weird that was.

550
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: But he actually says it sounds like a comfortable love song.

551
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: I didn't realize at the time how sinister it is.

552
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: I think I was thinking of a big brother, surveillance

553
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: and control, so romantic, you know what, I what I

554
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: think surveillance, Yeah, you know, I thought was a romance novel.

555
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's every it's every girl's dream. It's every

556
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 1: girl's dream. So we've talked a lot about kind of

557
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: examples of this and sort of how how pervasive it is.

558
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: But let's talk about why this is so important that

559
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: we unpack this and what the implications are for consuming

560
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: this media all the time. Let's say a quick break

561
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: can do that in romax. We were just talking about

562
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: all these different examples of songs and movies and TV

563
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: shows where stalking and creepy not okay behavior is normalized

564
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: as cute and funny in whatever. But it's important to

565
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: keep in mind that this isn't just you know, like

566
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: a movie review, these have actual real world implications. So

567
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: one study actually suggests that these movies make this kind

568
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: of behavior seem like a normal part of dating, and

569
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: that things that are super scary become easily normalized as romantic.

570
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: According to the study by Julia Lippman, a post doctoral

571
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: fellow at the Department of Communication Studies at University of Michigan,

572
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: she had a group of four d and twenty six

573
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: women each watch six movies that have been edited down

574
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 1: to half an hour or romantic comedy where a man

575
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: pursues a woman and it is depicted positively. So some

576
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: examples of this might be there's Something about Mary or

577
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: management a movie where a man pursues a woman romantically

578
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: and it's depicted as scary, so you might think of

579
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: that is enough, or Sleeping with the Enemy and a

580
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: nature documentary like March of the Penguins or Wing in

581
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: Migration as the control. Although I mean, who knows that

582
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: these penguins are, you know, stalking. I mean, we don't know.

583
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: We don't know what's up with penguins, and that could

584
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: that could be somebody's jam. It could it could. So

585
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: after the greeting, each of the women took a survey

586
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: ranking their agreement with several quote stalking myths, such as

587
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: many stalking victims are actually people who played hard to

588
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: get and then change their mind afterward, or someone who

589
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: goes to the extremes of stalking mustn't really feel passionately

590
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: about his or her love interest. Those who saw the

591
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: scary stalking movies were less likely than the control group

592
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: or the romcom group to endorse these myths. So basically,

593
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: the people who saw these cute, see romantic movies that

594
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: had someone going to these extremes to pursue a love interest.

595
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: The people who saw the movies were that's depicted as

596
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: normal and funny. I thought, you know, yeah, sometimes people

597
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: who are being stocked artists playing hard to get or oh,

598
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: if you stalk someone, you must really be in love

599
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: with them. And the people who saw the movies like enough,

600
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: where it's really scary and it's treated as a serious

601
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: scary thing, We're less likely to agree with those stalking myths. Yeah,

602
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: But also the control group was more likely to agree

603
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: with those stalking myths, which I think is an indicator

604
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: of how deep we have kind of accepted this, probably

605
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: because we see it all the time and It's just

606
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: that's just how it goes. That's just the courting game,

607
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: isn't it exactly? Exactly Something else from the study I

608
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: found really telling with what's the fact that grand gestures

609
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: of rom coms, like hiring a private investigator to track

610
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: down your high school prom date, like and there's something

611
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: about Mary, we're often framed as quote an equivocal signs

612
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: of true love lipman rights in the study. Indeed, they

613
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: may be seen as reflecting one of the great cultural

614
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: nous of our anti glove that no matter how big

615
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: the obstacle, love will conquer all, Love will conquer all.

616
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: And so that, yeah, it just goes to show how

617
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: pervasive these films are, that they're kind of when you

618
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: watch them, they kind of get into your bones and

619
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: get into the get into your head about how you

620
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: think about relationships in real life, even if you're watching

621
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: it saying, I know it's a movie. I think the

622
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: study demonstrates that it's a bit difficult to do that.

623
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: I can say I had I had someone do a

624
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: very grand romantic gesture once, and I was furious, I

625
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: felt like trapped and that I now was obligated to

626
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: be nice to him and a lot of people were around,

627
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: and they were you know, um, so I felt this pressure,

628
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: but we the relationship was doomed from then on because

629
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: I couldn't get over to It felt like emotional blackmail. Yeah, yeah,

630
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: don't do that to people. I actually it's I won't

631
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: say scarred as a very strong word, but it impacted

632
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: me so much that now any get anytime I start

633
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: dating someone, I tell them up front, I do not

634
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: want a big public engagement. I want to talk about

635
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen if this ever happens. And the guy's like,

636
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: whoa Like he's like, ma'am, this is a Starbucks. I

637
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: asked your order, ma'am. I just wanted you to know

638
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: in case you had any thoughts going on at day,

639
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 1: good day. You know. I once saw a public public

640
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: proposal go wrong with the woman. He did it, and

641
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: then this is at a baseball game. He did it,

642
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: and then the woman was like, She just kept saying

643
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: in a low, monotone voice, can we talk about this

644
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: in private? So who knows, maybe they did get engaged,

645
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: but the fact that she was not, you know that

646
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: she was just like, can when we talk about this?

647
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, I think it's I think, but again,

648
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: films can make us think that this is what people want.

649
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: People want a grand romantic gesture. If you break up,

650
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: she actually is waiting for you to rush to her

651
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: wedding and bang on the glass I'll have a graduate

652
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: while she's walking down the aisle, right like that's what

653
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: she wants. She's waiting for you to do this. And

654
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: I think that we have a lot of films that

655
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: demonstrate this. I actually this is kind of a weird example,

656
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: but the show Always Sunny in Philadelphia, there's a plot

657
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: line where the character Charlie is obsessed with this waitress

658
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: that he's been obsessed with. He's like stalking her, like

659
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: he's explicitly stalking her. It's it's there's no bones about it.

660
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: And there's one episode where he produces a play where

661
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: he says, you know, please come to this play. Please

662
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: come to this play. And it's like this romantic play

663
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: where it's you know, he's the lead character and that

664
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: he is, you know, courning this princess. And then at

665
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: the end it's like this beautiful scene where he says,

666
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: I was the main character and the princess was you,

667
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: and you're you know, you're thinking that the woman who's

668
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: being stalked is going to be like, oh my god,

669
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: it's so beautiful. When she's like are you are you done?

670
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: You know she's not, she's not impressed. And yeah, I

671
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: think that we culture does tell people that women want

672
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: a grand, romantic gesture and a lot of times we don't. Yeah,

673
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: and sometimes we do. But I think, especially in the

674
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: case of an engagement, just talk about talk about that

675
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: first if they If you've been broken up with though,

676
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: that's that's different. If you're in a relationship, discuss However,

677
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: if you're broken up with someone, I personally don't think um,

678
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: showing up outside of the moon Box playing Peter Gabriel

679
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: is a it's a smart, slash respectful thing to do. No,

680
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not. Yeah. And another thing about these

681
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: films is that not only do they trick us into

682
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: thinking that these kinds of behaviors, you know, showing up

683
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: that side of someone's house with a boom bus is romantic,

684
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: they actually are getting signals to people who are stalkers

685
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: as well that make them think that this is the

686
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: kind of behavior that women want. According to a study

687
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: from Victims of Crime dot org, two hundred and forty

688
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: one undergraduates describe their experience with unrequited love both as

689
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: pursuers and as love interests. So, in this study, two

690
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: dred and forty one undergraduate students describe their experiences with

691
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: unrequited love both as a pursuer or an actor and

692
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: as a love interest or a target. As expected, targets

693
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: and actors feel pretty differently about how they experienced the situation.

694
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: So basically, this study found that the people who were

695
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: doing that pursuing, they vastly overstated the positive interests the

696
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: people they are pursuing. And so basically what that means

697
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: is they thought, Oh, this person wanted this or liked this,

698
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: this behavior that is actually unwanted. The people who are

699
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: doing this creepy behavior actually over reported the person who

700
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: was on the other end of that behavior their feelings

701
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: bad as they thought, Oh, she's enjoying this this you know,

702
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: there's attention. I'm showing her this grand romantic gesture I'm making.

703
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: And again, I think that it really comes down to

704
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: these movies and these films giving people the wrong I yeah,

705
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: about how we relate to each other. Yeah, And I

706
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: believe in that study it also said that it was

707
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: most men were more likely to overreport this positive interaction

708
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: and women were more likely to not under report but

709
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: be like no, no, I wasn't really interested. Um and

710
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: there I mean, there's so much to impact. There's so

711
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: much there. Because if you see those things over and

712
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: over and you do think they're normal, then yeah, even

713
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: as a woman, you might think maybe I do want this,

714
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: or maybe I should settle down. It's just very complex

715
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: and how many how many facets it touches, and how

716
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: many other things are at play as well. Completely. I

717
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: know I've said this before, but we are just talking

718
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: about movies and the abstract that we watched these movies

719
00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: and we think, oh that was creepy and then it

720
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: just goes away. These things are pervasive and they have

721
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: real world consequences. I was actually shocked to find that

722
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: in Australia a man was basically charged with stalking and

723
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: went to court, and its lawyer argued that because this

724
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: guy watched a lot of Bollywood films, and Bollywood films

725
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: are kind of known for men who are very aggressive

726
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: and in their pursuit of women romantically, because he had

727
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 1: watched so many of these movies, he didn't understand why

728
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: what he was doing wasn't okay because in the movies,

729
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: the women like it, they get together with the man.

730
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: In the end, his lawyer successfully argued that it was

731
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: quote quite normal behavior for Indian men to obsessively target

732
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: women without obvious signs of their affections being returned, because

733
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 1: male characters and colorful romantic Bollywood movies are often seen

734
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: determinedly pursuing their female counterparts until they finally acquiesced into

735
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: a relationship. And this work. He was able to get

736
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: off on these charges because of these movies. Yeah, and

737
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: stalking is a very large problem in Indiana and specifically

738
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: in Delhi. I believe Deli was unfortunately named the stalking

739
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: capital of the world. Um, And until it wasn't taken seriously,

740
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't seen as a as a problem that needed

741
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: to be solved, even though I believe it was. Four

742
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: out of five Indian women reported some kind of behavior

743
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: that made them uncomfortable. And there's instances of women being

744
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: stabbed with scissors in public. Um, A man set himself

745
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: on fire and hugged this this I think she was

746
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: a schoolgirl and set her on fire. And these were

747
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: all instances where the stalking had been reported and just

748
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: sort of ignored, or maybe just they didn't know how

749
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: to take care of it. I'm not sure, but those

750
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: I it's the fact that someone in a court used

751
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: that as an excuse. WHOA the sid in Bollywood folks,

752
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 1: it's it's acceptable, right, is kind of shocking and very

753
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: clear indicator of how I think we've said pervasive several times,

754
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: but clearly experience. Yeah. I think when it comes to

755
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: Bollywood movies especially, it's important to keep in mind that

756
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 1: these movies are showing something that's just ingrained in our culture.

757
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 1: So it's not like an India problem necessarily, because clearly

758
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: we're still figuring this out in America, and so it's

759
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: more like a romanticized depiction of something that we are

760
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: struggling as an entire society to figure out how we're

761
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: going to deal with. I was really interested to find

762
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 1: that this Indian actor, siv Kartha can I hope I'm

763
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: saying that correctly, but he during a talk with film students,

764
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: acknowledged that one of his previous roles this movie, in

765
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: which he dressed as a female nurse to pursue a

766
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: woman who was not interested in kind of wore her down,

767
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: could be actually depicted stalking, and so in this conversation

768
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: with college students, he said, I'm not going to really

769
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: do movies like that anymore because my careers evolved, and

770
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: he does seem a little bit salty about it. He's like,

771
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: I'm kind of thick of taking these questions. But I

772
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: think if you have more and more actors, more and

773
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: more talent, saying I'm not going to participate in making

774
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: a movie that portrays a toxic, harmful version of something

775
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: that is really scary. You know, I think that would

776
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: be really good. Yeah, I do as well. And um,

777
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: I kind of went on a I was gonna self

778
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: of the route of this and I thought, I wonder

779
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: how much of it comes from Victorian courtship rules. So

780
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: late last night I was on the Google just searching

781
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: for where where did all of this come from? And um,

782
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: there are some rules like a woman should never dance

783
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: with a man at a ball more than three times. Um,

784
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: you couldn't. You couldn't be seen with a man unless

785
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: you had a chaperone as a single woman. You couldn't

786
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: talk to a man without an introduction first, and you

787
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: can't have a man over you're a single woman. Um,

788
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: basically you couldn't be with a man alone until you

789
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: got married. Um. And to a lesser extent, engaged you

790
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: could do a couple of things like holding hands in

791
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: public engaged and Um, this all has to do with

792
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: the church, and I can't wait to do an episode

793
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: on it. But I wondered if it's these dating roles

794
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 1: of women are kind of supposed to be resisdent. There

795
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: the pursued, or if you take a darker tone on it,

796
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 1: they were the prey and the men or the predator.

797
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: That maybe that plays into it. But also there's entitlement. Um,

798
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: you put in all this time and effort and the

799
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: woman therefore owes you something, especially if you're a nice

800
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: guy and you you really do feel for her right um.

801
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: And then the double standard women face of being labeled

802
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: easy or sluts. Maybe it devalues you if you say

803
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: yes right away. Um. Not believing women when they say

804
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: what they want. I mean, she can't poss a you

805
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: mean she doesn't she doesn't want to be with me?

806
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: How could that be? There's so many songs about that.

807
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: Is that justin Beevers song which one what do you mean. Oh,

808
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: And of course blurred lines, um women being a price

809
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: be one that's all the time, like that's the eighties

810
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: and video games. So many things are tied up in that,

811
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: and just the gender roles of um being. You want

812
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: to be desirable as a woman, because you're taught that

813
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: that's your value, that a man desiring you in this

814
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: heteronormative world, that that is your whole goal is to

815
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: be desired by men and to have them to want

816
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: to pursue you. Um, and your ultimate success is if

817
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: you land a guy. I think there's so many weird

818
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: things tied up in this, and that's why it's so difficult.

819
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: I think it's going to take a lot two show

820
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: healthier relationships. Hollywood make movies about healthier relationships. Well, I

821
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: think you hit it right on the head, Annie, because

822
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: I don't think it's about just a handful of movies

823
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: or a handful of songs that are creepy. It's about massive, radical,

824
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: systematic culture change. And that's hard, and that's scary, and

825
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: it sounds very very big, right, like the idea that

826
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: we could completely reshape our culture where these things are

827
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: not seen as romantic when they're actually really scarier. That

828
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: women don't feel like they're worth is related to how

829
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,879
Speaker 1: many people they sleep with, or who they sleep whether

830
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: who they date or who they marry. All of that

831
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: needs systematic change. And so I don't want to make

832
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: it seem like we're just talking about a handful of

833
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: movies and a handful of songs, because this is a

834
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: wider and pervasive cultural issue like worldwide. But even though

835
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: these issues are really big and scary and vast and

836
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: it seems like one of those things that we probably

837
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: will never tackle, people can still take that or step.

838
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: If you're an actor or a filmmaker, you can say

839
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 1: I'm not going to work on movies that portray relationships

840
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: in this way as if these things are funny or

841
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: healthy when they're not. If you're a movie goer, I mean,

842
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: I honestly think that with the movie that you mentioned earlier, Passenger,

843
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 1: I think if that movie had come out even fifteen

844
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: years ago, people would not have rightly called it out

845
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: as creepy. And so it just takes one, it just

846
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: takes all of us to say when I see movies

847
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: that are presenting something that I know is not okay

848
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: in a way where it is okay saying that. And

849
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: I think that slowly but surely, I think that Hollywood

850
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: will get the message. I think that filmmakers will get

851
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: the message. I think that people who might have inclinations

852
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: to have this kind of behavior might get the message.

853
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 1: But I think it really starts with all of us

854
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: being willing to say, Hey, that's actually not cute, that's

855
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 1: actually not funny, that's actually not romantic, it's not okay,

856
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: and we shouldn't be saying it's okay, even if it's

857
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: quote just a movie. Yeah. Um, I totally agree. I

858
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: think we're slowly making progress. And I remember reading an

859
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: essay I can't remember wrote it, but it was a

860
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: male screenwriter from the eighties and he was saying, um,

861
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: we need to get more um women writing, which totally agree.

862
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: But he was also saying there was this kind of

863
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: nerd we were starting to get power, and we want

864
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: to show because a lot of these times it's the

865
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: awkward guy you connect with, right, Oh, he can get

866
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: the girl. So they were all of these guys were

867
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: writing these scripts that showed kind of their fantasy of

868
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: attaining this unattainable perhaps in real life girl. And we

869
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: just need to get more stories in there, written by

870
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: different people from different perspectives, and yeah, move away from that,

871
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: because I remember John Oliver, I can't remember the exact quote,

872
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: but he said something like, Nerd, you've you've got the

873
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: you've inherited the earth now, so you can't keep showing

874
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:57,439
Speaker 1: these stories where you you're so downtrodden. Yeah, and also

875
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: just that we we that story. I think that there

876
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: was a point where, you know, the awkward, sensitive, bookish

877
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: nerd getting the unattainable girl. There was a point where

878
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 1: that felt novel. It doesn't kill novel anymore, Like that's

879
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: that's Taylors all this time. We get it like that.

880
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm a big I'm a big proponent of they're just

881
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: being more stories out there, just like you're saying, and

882
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm not down with pretending like the narrative

883
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: of bookish guy who's awkward and unpopular gets you know,

884
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: is put like it is picked on then gets the girl.

885
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: I'm not down to pretend that that is not a

886
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 1: story that we see a lot. What about awkward girl

887
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: gets hot guy or like I don't know, I just

888
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: I'm I'm we live, I feel like we are I'm

889
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: kind of going off the rails a little bit bad.

890
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: But let me get on my soapbox anyway and say

891
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: that I think that we have reached a point where

892
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: he have seen that story told again and again and again,

893
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: and we are still sort of prompted to believe that

894
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 1: story is not often told, but in fact, the story

895
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: of awkward guys, nerdy guys and they're dating challenges like

896
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: we are. That's that story is everywhere, like everywhere. That's

897
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: like all dudes write about, Like like I think about it,

898
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: about it right, Like how many you know? As someone

899
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 1: who studied literature, and when I was in grad school,

900
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: when we read books by men, so many of the

901
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 1: themes came back again and again to you know, women

902
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 1: are awful. This woman broke my heart and that's why

903
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: I drank. I went to war to get away from

904
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: this woman. Like it was always the same story, kind

905
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: of repackaged, and I'm just, yeah, we need more stories.

906
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: And I do remember how I met your mother is

907
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: probably Barney. One of the characters was saying the difference

908
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: between a stalker and love it is just whether or

909
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 1: not you have feelings for the other person, which kind

910
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: of reminds me of the number one rule of Reddit

911
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: is be attractive. I mean, listen, I don't care if

912
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: you're Brad Pitt or whoever. If you show up that

913
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: ouside of my house with the boom box, Yeah, there's

914
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: gonna be healthy. Pay you don't do it. Anyone out

915
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: there listening, don't don't out of Bridges Department. She will

916
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 1: not be happy, noted, Um, and I wanted to leave

917
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 1: close out at least with this one quote. Um. It

918
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: was an Onion headline from a couple of years ago,

919
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: and it read romantic comedy behavior gets real life man arrested.

920
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: You know, as it should. As it should, Yeah, And

921
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: one of the quotes from the article was, she was

922
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: supposed to hate me at first, but gradually be won

923
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: over by my incredible persistence, telling me that no one

924
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: has ever gone to such wild links to win her love,

925
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: Marzano said, But for some reason, her irritation never turned

926
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: to affection. I love it. I think that's a good

927
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: place to to end it. Don't make a grand romantic

928
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: gesture to someone that you're not in a relationship with,

929
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: and even if you are, maybe talk about it before

930
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 1: you do it. And Stalky isn't funny and it's not romantic,

931
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: so don't do that either. Yeah, that's the last of

932
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: the episode. Don't stop, people, don't stop. It seems so

933
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: simple and yet and yet, and we're still working it out,

934
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: so it's meant to listeners. What do y'all think? What

935
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: are some films that we've left out, because I'm sure

936
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 1: there are a lot. Have you seen this playing out

937
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: in music and movies? Let us know. You can find

938
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: us on Instagram and stuff I've Never Told You, on

939
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, and as always, via email

940
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.