WEBVTT - The Many Faces of George 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:04.520 And can you tell us, first of all, if you 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:08.880 noticed anything about George during that time. He wasn't the 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.400 same George that I knew. There are Facebook messages between 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.360 her and Hannah may rodin days before Hannah may was 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.280 murdered in which they talked about this issue of custody 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.239 and how the Wagners wanted Hannah may to sign over 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.720 custody of her daughter. He was a lifelong friend of 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.879 Billy Wagner. He cooperated with the BCI, and he actually 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.479 warned that Chris or that if you had trouble with them, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.360 they will harm you or kill you. If George would 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:42.800 have just let me go outside to cool off with it, 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.520 then we would probably still be married. All I wanted 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:55.360 was five minutes to cry outside alone. This is the 0:00:55.400 --> 0:01:00.880 piked to massacre Returned to Pike County season four, episode eleven, 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.560 The Many Faces of George. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.440 producer at Katy Studios, along with Stephanie Laidecker and Jeff Shane. 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.520 It's important to note that George Wagner the Fourth, along 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:17.000 with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.160 any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty to all charges. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.479 We're picking up where we left off last episode, with 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:29.800 Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa examining Tabitha Clayton George Wagner, the fourth's 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:34.720 ex wife on the stand. Can you tell us what 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:39.240 time of the day this argument first started? And I 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.479 don't mean any exact time, but was it the afternoon? 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.320 Was it the evening? It was near evening? Yeah, it 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:50.840 started to get dark, okay. And did you have any 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:54.440 more contact with them while you were still there hiding 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:59.040 in the George's truck. Did you see any of them? 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:05.160 There were flashlights you said. They were flashlights plural, more 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:12.360 than one flashlight. Yes. And at this point where were you? 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:17.840 I was still underneath the George's truck, okay, under the 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:22.720 cab basically okay, grab in the front tires. Did they 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:28.720 find you? Did they eventually give up looking for you? Yes? 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.760 And what did you do it? At that point? I 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.400 got out from underneath of the truck and went to 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:39.280 the barn and got my bicycle. And you got on 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.560 your You got your bicycle, you said, And what did 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:48.680 you do? I left? I went to the gas station 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:55.160 up the road by McDonald's. And can you tell us 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:59.320 at that point. Was it dark? Yes, okay? Approximately how 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:05.880 far is that to the gas station? Driving? It's about 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:10.640 five or ten minutes? And can you tell us why 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.320 were you hiding from them? I didn't want to get shot. 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.960 And did you make it to the gas station? Yes, okay. 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:27.560 Did you encounter anybody along the way? Yes? Tell us 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:33.560 who George and Jake in their red suburban And what 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.640 did they say to you? They were trying to get 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.680 me to get in the car so we could go home. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.280 And did you agree to get into the car, What, 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.720 if anything did you say to them? They told him 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.640 that I wasn't going to live with film if they're 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:55.520 going to hit me? And what happened then? Or did 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.040 you tell them where you were going? I taught him 0:03:58.040 --> 0:03:59.880 that I was going to go to the gas stations 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.200 so I could call her mom so she can come 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.400 and get me. And is that what you did? Yes? 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.560 Here's legal analyst Mike Allen, followed by Stephanie and Jeff. 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:21.200 This is key testimony for the prosecution because, unlike so 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.880 many of the other witnesses, this really kind of centers 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.839 on George and she sat the prosecutors painting a picture 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.920 of what kind of a person George was and you know, 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:38.160 according to her, he wasn't a very good person. We've 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.120 never been able to connect with Tabitha personally, and we've 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.599 spoken to her mother, we've spoken to her sister, and 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:49.000 hearing her accounts firsthand of something that we've we've heard 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.560 versions of this story of that night when she had 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.800 to run out of the house, but really hearing it 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:59.000 out of her own mouth was something really powerful. He's 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.960 living in an event that is nothing more and nothing 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.680 less than traumatic. Picturing her even just biking away in 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.400 the night, trying to escape, and then the boys pulling 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.039 up in that car telling her to get in, you 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.880 know how trap she must have felt. After the incident 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.960 that Tabitha described on the stand, the Wagners ended up 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.520 filing a domestic violence claim against her, claiming that she 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.320 dragged her baby across the floor. Now they later dropped 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:31.040 these charges. Tabitha and George were married, therefore, George had 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.280 automatic rights in the state of Ohio because they were married, 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.279 so she literally had to write her rights away and 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.560 did whether she knew what she was signing or not. 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.719 It was around the same time that Tabitha was becoming 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.440 close with victim hannahme Rodin, who as we know, was 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.880 having similar custody issues with her ex boyfriend Jake Wagner. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.280 Tabitha ran through some of the Facebook messages she and 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.400 Hannah had shared at the time. She begins by counting 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.360 an exchange about being able to share her son with 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:08.919 George Wagner. Hannah Rodin asked me if I've gotten to 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:13.080 see lately. I said, no, not yet. Every time my 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.640 set a day to see him, George has something to 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:20.240 do or somewhere to go. He tells me he will 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.000 message me back when he gets home, but then he 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:29.080 never messages me back. Hannah says, oh, I wouldn't be 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:33.280 really upset. I would say I'm scared to death that 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.719 they are going to try and take I said, all 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:41.080 I am, and it kills me. Well, you know, since 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:47.359 y'all was not married, she goes to you automatically, and 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.880 he is the one that gets to see her every 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.200 other weekend or whatever. Hannah says, yeah, I know, but 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.320 they could fight that. I said, yeah, but a judge 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.080 ain't gonna take her away from you. You have a 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.000 good home and people to help take care of her. 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.960 She says, I know, I'm trying to get me a 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.480 place as soon as possible in a job, I said, 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.120 I mean, if George would have just let me go 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.560 outside to cool off of that, then we would probably 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.520 still be married. All I wanted was five minutes to 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:24.440 cry outside alone. Then there was an incident in twenty sixteen, 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.480 right before the murders, during a visit with her son 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:32.800 at the Wagner's, Tabitha's newborn daughter was seemingly poisoned. Was 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:37.680 there another time that something happened after you had visited 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:42.920 your son at the Wagner residence? Yes? And can you 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.000 tell us do you recall when that would have been? 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:52.040 Was around mos Day or Easter? And what year would 0:07:52.040 --> 0:08:00.840 that have been? Recall two and sixteen? And can you 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:06.320 tell us what happened? My six month little daughter became unresponsive, 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:11.160 so we took her to the emergency room where they 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:15.240 did tests and found the jugs in her system. Tell me, 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.920 first of all, this was a child of horse. Yes, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.600 she was six months old at the time. Yes. And 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.160 had she been with you at the Wagner residence that day? Yes? 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:34.360 And tell us what kinds of interactions she had with 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.360 the other people in the home she had stayed on 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:42.240 my hip for a while until Angela had asked to 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.319 see her, and so I gave her to rosts so 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.720 she could see her while I went and use to 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.280 the restroom. Other than that time period where you win 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.880 the restroom? Was your daughter out of your view while 0:08:54.880 --> 0:09:00.280 you were at the blackness? And did you make get 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.360 back home before you noticed that about your daughter as 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:08.599 far as her physical condition, yeah, I had made it home, okay. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.360 And when you say she was unresponsive, what do you 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:16.760 mean by that? She was just laying there staring out 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.640 into space. I went to pick her up and she 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.040 was as limber as a new one. And what did 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.480 you do as a result of that? I had worked 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.960 my husband and we took it in the emergency room, okay. 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:35.120 And Drewy Hall where you went the SMC and you 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.880 indicated that they did some tests. And do you know 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:43.040 what driveway found in her system? Zan X? Were you 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:49.600 prescribed xanax your husband? No? Do you have any xanax 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.400 in your home at all? And have you been anywhere 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.960 else that day? No? And as a result of that, 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:05.240 was there a children this investigation? Yes? Okay? And did 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.800 both you and your husband submit to tests? We did, 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:14.440 but they did not do them at the hospital, okay. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.920 Did you volunteer to do them at the hospital, yes, 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:22.439 but you did take tests later about a week later, okay? 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:27.000 And were those negative? Yes. It was all very shocking 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.200 testimony for the prosecution, showing that George might have had 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.520 violent tendencies and was also tightly bound to his family. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.840 But the defense mounted a strong cross examination. They began 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.560 with Tabitha's affair with her friend Whitney's father, Jay, and 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.000 the trust issues are created in her marriage. And who's 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.720 Whitney's father? Do you know? Yes? Who is your father? 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:56.560 Cecil Smith? Cecil Smith? Yeah, how do you know? How well? 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:02.080 Do you know? Very well? Okay? And Cecil also goes 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.240 by the name Jay, Is that right? Yes? Okay? And 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:12.560 at some point you had some revelation to tell George 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:18.960 about Jay, right, Yes? What was that? What was the reason? Well? Yeah, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.439 what was the revelation? What did you have to tell him? 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.520 I had told him that I cheated on him? Okay, 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:30.560 with with Jay? Right? And in factas was more than 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:35.640 just one occasion, right, yes? And how old is Jay? 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:40.760 Not twenty five thirty years older? You were about seventeen 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.640 maybe at the time. No, I didn't get back with 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:52.320 George until I was about eighteen nineteen. Defense attorney Richard 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.360 Nash also points out that Tabitha and her siblings had 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.840 been sexually abused by her mother's husband, Dave. The defense 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.920 sided this as a quite reasonable reason why the Wagners 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.120 did not want Tabitha bringing their grandchild around to family. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:11.800 The perpetrator, the person who victimized you. That's Day, right, Yes, 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:17.040 And Dave is your mother's husband was is dead now 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:22.040 he's dead? And when did he die? About five years ago? 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:26.200 I think? Okay? And your mother was aware of the 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:30.600 things that Day did to you. Yes, And not only 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.640 did he do these awful things to you, but he 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.840 did him to your sisters. Yes. Now, when you left 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.960 the Wagner home, we'll get to this more in depth, 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:44.920 but that's where you went, was the home with Day, right, Yes, 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.560 And George did not want his little boy living in 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:54.439 the same home as Day. Is that what he told you? Yes? Okay, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.880 that seems like a pretty rational thing to not want 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:03.080 your child around the child molester. Right. Yes, you don't 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.320 fault George for not wanting his son to be there, right, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.800 That was a no? Yes, that was a no. I 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:17.400 don't blame him, and your mother was an enabler to 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.520 these things that had happened to you and your sisters. Yes, 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.120 the defense also killed Tabitha on her mental health and 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.800 whether she was doing enough to tend to him. Now 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.520 that I have refreshed her recollection, do you recall telling 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:38.520 David Jenkins you had a perfect life with your husband, yes, 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:44.120 and who you're referring to as George, right, yes, Okay. 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.880 Now back to George and living with him, He had 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.520 various jobs, right, yes, For a while he worked at 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:01.200 Bennetts and Medford, yes, okay, and then for some time 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.680 he was hauling cattle right yes. And where he would 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.280 haul cattle, he would be gone for like a week 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.800 on or a week off. Yes, okay. Now back to 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:18.480 that situation where you had cut your arms? Did you 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:23.040 ever seek any help for that? The only reason I 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.040 done it was because George and Angela won't shut up 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.160 the man. You learned about getting back on zoloft, even 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:29.640 though I told him the last time I was on 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:34.480 zooloft it didn't end well. Zolo Okay, So you have 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.320 been prescribed zoloft, is what you're telling us? Yes? And 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:47.160 for what reason are you prescribed zoloft depression by poland. Okay, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.480 and you have said you would agree with me that 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.120 you've said that you don't like taking medication, right, not 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.800 that one enough, okay, any other medication you didn't like 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:10.840 taking mndelina. Then there were the continued claims of different 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.840 ways that George has been abusive. But the defense took 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:18.720 this moment to dissect and try and undercut Tabitha's testimony. 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:26.400 I ask you about that incident when you had left 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.840 the Wager home, if I'm not mistaken, Well, first off, 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.720 you have discussed that incident with the BCI agents, right, 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.360 if I'm me leading about we got in my arm 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.320 about the incident when you left. You've been questioned about that, 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.200 and you and you told them what happened, right, Yes? 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.360 Would you agree with me though, that when you talked 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.320 to the BCI agents you told him that you and 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:57.359 George were horse playing, playing around with about yes, okay, 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.320 and it's Michael, I don't hear that. Well you said 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:06.440 what now? What the belt? Yes, with the belt? But okay, 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.560 now you would agree with me that you never told 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.080 any BCI agent that there was playing with a belt? Right? 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:18.240 What you never mentioned a belt to a BCI agent. Right, 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.160 it's part of that night. I'm pretty sure I did. Okay, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.400 all right, But you've always said that it was just 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:31.560 the two of you horseplane or plane around, right, Yes, 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.400 at first it was okay, So maybe I misunderstood your 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.040 testimony on direct examination, but it sounded to me as 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.720 if you were saying that he was like assaulting you 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.960 with a belt. That's not true, right, That's not what 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.880 I said, okay, And I may be wrong, but I'm 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.720 just making sure that I understood you correctly. You weren't 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.720 testifying that he was assaulting you with a belt, right, No, 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.520 I did not say he was assaulting me with belt, okay. 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.480 And it was just you guys, we're playing around right 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:06.760 in the beginning, yes, okay. And then Angela, I guess 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.320 I wanted you guys to stop, yes, because I yelled 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:16.000 at her precious baby okay, um, all right. And you 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.199 wanted to leave the house, right, yes, And when you 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.919 went to leave, George had put his arm on the 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:26.679 door so you couldn't leave, yes, okay. Now this was 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:31.600 in November, right, yes, okay. And when you left on 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:36.040 your bicycle it was dark, right, yes, okay, And so 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.520 how much time went by from when you're trying to 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.960 leave and when you actually fled on your bicycle it 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:47.520 was dark. I don't know, maybe an hour now, I'm 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:54.720 not clear about this. This agreement you went into, you 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.320 had to go into a courtroom in front of a 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:02.440 judge before you could divorce dissolve your marriage, right, yes. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.080 And when you stood in front of that judge, the 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:13.120 judge changed you that you were agreeing to George being 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:17.680 the soul customer, right, yes. And the judge also made 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:22.439 sure you understood that all visits would be supervilent, right yes. 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:28.840 And you were asked if you understood that. You said yes, yes, okay, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.800 And there was nothing in there about changing these things 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:40.040 at a later time, right no, okay. And so it's 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.040 fair to say those were your wishes, right exactly what 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.120 the judge had made sure you understood. No, that's not 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.600 my wishes. George told me that it was only temporary, 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.520 that's what was supposed to have been done, and whenever 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.760 I got my own place, in my own job, then 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.520 I could have him back and would do the fifty 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.560 fifty thing. I think that if we may out and 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.840 then we would probably still be together because I still 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.960 love him. I really do. I always have and always will. 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:14.040 But I couldn't tank having to ask to do something 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.960 with my own son. We're going to take a break. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:29.600 We'll be back in a moment. As the defensive cross 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.200 examination continued to pay Tabitha in a more uncertain light, 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.680 it was hard to know exactly what to make of 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:41.600 her accusations. Here's long crime reporter and Jeanette Levy, she 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.959 has been through a lot. And also you know the 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:49.560 fact that there are Facebook messages between her and Hannah 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:54.320 Ma roudin days before Hannah May was murdered in which 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.199 they talked about this issue of custody and how the 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.720 Wagoners wanted Hannah Ma sign over custody of her daughter 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.159 that she had with Jake. And it was kind of 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.640 sad to hear Tabitha say that, literally, she still loves George. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.320 I mean this was back in twenty sixteen, of course, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.280 but it sounded like she still loved him and if 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.240 they had ever been able to move out on their own, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.880 they probably would have still been together. She said she 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.159 had told George she wanted them to move out and 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:24.040 to get their own place. She thought it would help 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.359 their relationship, and she said that George said, we're a 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:31.240 farm family. We have to live together here again Jeff 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:36.480 and Stephanie during cross exam. It really painted a picture 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.159 of Tabitha versus the Wagoners, which, as we know at 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.480 the time, Tabitha was a young woman in her late 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.040 teens early twenties, and the Wagoners were kind of a 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.600 force to be reckoned with. It seems like she kind 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.320 of just wanted all of the turmoil to end and 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.360 just be a mom to her son, and somehow signing 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.040 this paperwork and doing what the Wagners want it seemed 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:00.360 like the path of least resistance to her. I think 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.840 this testimony seems relevant to the charges that George Wagner 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.160 the fourth is facing, because not only does it paint 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:11.680 a picture of George as someone who is abusive and cruel, 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:13.679 but also the fact that he really moved in a 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:18.159 unit with his family, which then, as we know, is 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.480 what the prosecution is saying happened with the planning and 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.240 execution of these murders. And it also speaks to a 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:27.640 bit of a pattern, a pattern in custody. Correct, does 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.640 that mean it's a pattern in murder. I'm assuming those 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:35.800 links are still to come Aside from Tabitha, the jury 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:39.000 also heard from two other key witnesses, both of whom 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.359 opted out of being recorded on the stand. The first 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.360 was Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend, who he shared a child with. 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.679 Here's Anteinette with insight into that testimony. I think the 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:56.000 jury seemed really interested in testimony since she had a 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.840 relationship with Frankie Rowden. She is the mother of his 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.119 his oldest son, and you know, she had some things 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.960 that were interesting that she was able to tell the jury. 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.200 You know, she talked about getting a phone call from 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.520 Hannah May in twenty fourteen, which sounded terrifying. That she 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:17.680 said that Angel Wagner ran out of the house and 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.000 chased Tabitha out of the house with a shotgun, and 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:24.040 that Jake and George and Hannah all followed, and that 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.840 Jake told her not to leave the house. If she did, 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:31.440 he would chop off her legs. I mean, that's terrifying. 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.679 After a meeting in his chambers, Judge Daring emerged to 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.119 tell the jury that the phone call between Hannah and 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.399 Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend was probative evidence only. This is 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.560 to say, it's meant to prove a relevant fact in 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:47.760 the case, but could not be used to cast a 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:52.520 shadow over the Wagner's character. The second witness is Jeff Tackett, 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.680 a one time friend of Billy Wagner's. The pair became 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:58.800 friends when they were just thirteen years old. Jeff worked 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.159 at the Wagner family's farms and once when hunting with 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:06.520 the entire Wagner family. According to Tackett, George Wagner flew 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:08.879 into a rage when his father killed a deer. Before 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:13.359 he did, George went home early. Tackett testified that George 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:16.120 was moody and erratic due to the pain pills he took. 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.680 These are pills that Angela allegedly plied him with. Tackett 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:22.720 was also with Billy in the days leading up to 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.600 the murders. After the massacre, Tackett believed Billy had something 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.240 to do with it and started working with the BCI. 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:32.520 He agreed to wear a wire and inform on the 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:37.800 Wagner's Mike Allen, he was a lifelong friend of Billy Wagner. 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:42.320 He cooperated with the BCI, and he actually wore a wire. 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:47.080 He saw Billy Wagner days before the murder in a 0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:53.760 room filled with weapons, and that is I think very relevant, 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:58.960 again a peripheral relevance maybe to George's guilt or innocence, 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:02.800 but in telling the tale and telling the story of 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:06.879 the Wagner family, it's important. He worked sometimes at the 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:10.159 Flying w Farm, which was the family farm, because he 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:14.400 was helping to break some horses. He knew Christinior, Frankie 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:19.400 Hannah May, and Chris Junior and said that he warned 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.160 Chris Senor that if you had trouble with them, they 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:29.520 will harm you or kill you. Here again, Anjeanette. Jeff 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:33.040 Teckett described the Wagners as being very close, like a cult. 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:36.440 He's been around the Wagners a lot. He's been around 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:40.200 Frederico Wagner a lot. He talked about Frederica Wagner even 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.639 gave him a percocet for pain one time because he 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.479 was having an issue, and he said it made him 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:48.440 feel dizzy, and he told her never to give him 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:52.000 something like that again. So he didn't want anything to 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:54.560 do with that, but he did provide a lot of 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:58.280 interesting information about the Wagners and the fact that he 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.960 believed that Billy Way was involved in these homicides. After 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:09.320 seeing all of those items in his bedroom. Let's stop 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:21.560 here for another break. Here's Angie Kneppa examining the next witness, 0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:25.440 Samantha's Daley. Samantha is a longtime friend of both Jake 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:29.679 and George Wagner's. She has appeared on the podcast before 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:33.119 and has a history with Jake Wagner. What fare a 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:39.560 time when you were intimate with Jake Wagner? Yes? Okay? 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:45.240 And can you tell us who's who inditiated that he did? Okay? 0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:49.600 And if you can just tell us what his purpose was? 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:54.400 So one summer I got a phone call he did 0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:58.120 not know how to have in a course, I guess. 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:02.080 He asked me if I could help him out, Being 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:06.760 young and dumb, I guess I said sure, why not? 0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:12.280 And it was all one time flying. So we just 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:16.920 did what we did, okay? And do you recall approximately 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:21.040 when that would have been, I know, a summer, I'm 0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:28.280 guessing around two twelve, but that one night stand aside, 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:32.160 Samantha felt more drawn to George in comparison to Jake. 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:35.359 George seemed to have more of his own personality. She 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:38.639 found him to be effusive and always cracking jokes, whereas 0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:42.240 Jake was always plotting and devious. At one point, during 0:26:42.320 --> 0:26:45.160 his battle with hannahme Rodin, Jake auss Samantha to dig 0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:47.960 up dirt on Hannah to help his case for soul custody. 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:55.159 Samantha refused. George, Samantha says, was much kinder, nicer, and 0:26:55.520 --> 0:27:01.680 in her words, more bubbly. So, in my opinion, my 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:04.800 eyes outlooked. George would always go out and do his 0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:10.160 own thing. Jake would always have to get Angela's opinion 0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:14.720 before he would go do anything Angela didn't approve. Jake 0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:20.280 never did. George, on the other hand, would just do 0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:25.119 his own thing. And as I understand it, when you 0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:28.520 were very young, you felt like your mother and Angela 0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:32.840 would kind of pushing you over towards being with Jake. Yes, 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:36.200 and that you really didn't care for too much. Is 0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:42.159 that right? And actually, as the years wore on, you 0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:46.359 were more attracted to George. Is that fair to say? 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:49.719 He actually made me feel like I was wanted? Honestly? 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:52.960 He was nice to you, right, Yes, and that continued 0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:55.840 into a dawn put right yes. And in fact, I 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:57.879