Speaker 1: And can you tell us, first of all, if you
Speaker 1: noticed anything about George during that time. He wasn't the
Speaker 1: same George that I knew. There are Facebook messages between
Speaker 1: her and Hannah may rodin days before Hannah may was
Speaker 1: murdered in which they talked about this issue of custody
Speaker 1: and how the Wagners wanted Hannah may to sign over
Speaker 1: custody of her daughter. He was a lifelong friend of
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. He cooperated with the BCI, and he actually
Speaker 1: warned that Chris or that if you had trouble with them,
Speaker 1: they will harm you or kill you. If George would
Speaker 1: have just let me go outside to cool off with it,
Speaker 1: then we would probably still be married. All I wanted
Speaker 1: was five minutes to cry outside alone. This is the
Speaker 1: piked to massacre Returned to Pike County season four, episode eleven,
Speaker 1: The Many Faces of George. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television
Speaker 1: producer at Katy Studios, along with Stephanie Laidecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: It's important to note that George Wagner the Fourth, along
Speaker 1: with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny
Speaker 1: any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty to all charges.
Speaker 1: We're picking up where we left off last episode, with
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa examining Tabitha Clayton George Wagner, the fourth's
Speaker 1: ex wife on the stand. Can you tell us what
Speaker 1: time of the day this argument first started? And I
Speaker 1: don't mean any exact time, but was it the afternoon?
Speaker 1: Was it the evening? It was near evening? Yeah, it
Speaker 1: started to get dark, okay. And did you have any
Speaker 1: more contact with them while you were still there hiding
Speaker 1: in the George's truck. Did you see any of them?
Speaker 1: There were flashlights you said. They were flashlights plural, more
Speaker 1: than one flashlight. Yes. And at this point where were you?
Speaker 1: I was still underneath the George's truck, okay, under the
Speaker 1: cab basically okay, grab in the front tires. Did they
Speaker 1: find you? Did they eventually give up looking for you? Yes?
Speaker 1: And what did you do it? At that point? I
Speaker 1: got out from underneath of the truck and went to
Speaker 1: the barn and got my bicycle. And you got on
Speaker 1: your You got your bicycle, you said, And what did
Speaker 1: you do? I left? I went to the gas station
Speaker 1: up the road by McDonald's. And can you tell us
Speaker 1: at that point. Was it dark? Yes, okay? Approximately how
Speaker 1: far is that to the gas station? Driving? It's about
Speaker 1: five or ten minutes? And can you tell us why
Speaker 1: were you hiding from them? I didn't want to get shot.
Speaker 1: And did you make it to the gas station? Yes, okay.
Speaker 1: Did you encounter anybody along the way? Yes? Tell us
Speaker 1: who George and Jake in their red suburban And what
Speaker 1: did they say to you? They were trying to get
Speaker 1: me to get in the car so we could go home.
Speaker 1: And did you agree to get into the car, What,
Speaker 1: if anything did you say to them? They told him
Speaker 1: that I wasn't going to live with film if they're
Speaker 1: going to hit me? And what happened then? Or did
Speaker 1: you tell them where you were going? I taught him
Speaker 1: that I was going to go to the gas stations
Speaker 1: so I could call her mom so she can come
Speaker 1: and get me. And is that what you did? Yes?
Speaker 1: Here's legal analyst Mike Allen, followed by Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: This is key testimony for the prosecution because, unlike so
Speaker 1: many of the other witnesses, this really kind of centers
Speaker 1: on George and she sat the prosecutors painting a picture
Speaker 1: of what kind of a person George was and you know,
Speaker 1: according to her, he wasn't a very good person. We've
Speaker 1: never been able to connect with Tabitha personally, and we've
Speaker 1: spoken to her mother, we've spoken to her sister, and
Speaker 1: hearing her accounts firsthand of something that we've we've heard
Speaker 1: versions of this story of that night when she had
Speaker 1: to run out of the house, but really hearing it
Speaker 1: out of her own mouth was something really powerful. He's
Speaker 1: living in an event that is nothing more and nothing
Speaker 1: less than traumatic. Picturing her even just biking away in
Speaker 1: the night, trying to escape, and then the boys pulling
Speaker 1: up in that car telling her to get in, you
Speaker 1: know how trap she must have felt. After the incident
Speaker 1: that Tabitha described on the stand, the Wagners ended up
Speaker 1: filing a domestic violence claim against her, claiming that she
Speaker 1: dragged her baby across the floor. Now they later dropped
Speaker 1: these charges. Tabitha and George were married, therefore, George had
Speaker 1: automatic rights in the state of Ohio because they were married,
Speaker 1: so she literally had to write her rights away and
Speaker 1: did whether she knew what she was signing or not.
Speaker 1: It was around the same time that Tabitha was becoming
Speaker 1: close with victim hannahme Rodin, who as we know, was
Speaker 1: having similar custody issues with her ex boyfriend Jake Wagner.
Speaker 1: Tabitha ran through some of the Facebook messages she and
Speaker 1: Hannah had shared at the time. She begins by counting
Speaker 1: an exchange about being able to share her son with
Speaker 1: George Wagner. Hannah Rodin asked me if I've gotten to
Speaker 1: see lately. I said, no, not yet. Every time my
Speaker 1: set a day to see him, George has something to
Speaker 1: do or somewhere to go. He tells me he will
Speaker 1: message me back when he gets home, but then he
Speaker 1: never messages me back. Hannah says, oh, I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: really upset. I would say I'm scared to death that
Speaker 1: they are going to try and take I said, all
Speaker 1: I am, and it kills me. Well, you know, since
Speaker 1: y'all was not married, she goes to you automatically, and
Speaker 1: he is the one that gets to see her every
Speaker 1: other weekend or whatever. Hannah says, yeah, I know, but
Speaker 1: they could fight that. I said, yeah, but a judge
Speaker 1: ain't gonna take her away from you. You have a
Speaker 1: good home and people to help take care of her.
Speaker 1: She says, I know, I'm trying to get me a
Speaker 1: place as soon as possible in a job, I said,
Speaker 1: I mean, if George would have just let me go
Speaker 1: outside to cool off of that, then we would probably
Speaker 1: still be married. All I wanted was five minutes to
Speaker 1: cry outside alone. Then there was an incident in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: right before the murders, during a visit with her son
Speaker 1: at the Wagner's, Tabitha's newborn daughter was seemingly poisoned. Was
Speaker 1: there another time that something happened after you had visited
Speaker 1: your son at the Wagner residence? Yes? And can you
Speaker 1: tell us do you recall when that would have been?
Speaker 1: Was around mos Day or Easter? And what year would
Speaker 1: that have been? Recall two and sixteen? And can you
Speaker 1: tell us what happened? My six month little daughter became unresponsive,
Speaker 1: so we took her to the emergency room where they
Speaker 1: did tests and found the jugs in her system. Tell me,
Speaker 1: first of all, this was a child of horse. Yes,
Speaker 1: she was six months old at the time. Yes. And
Speaker 1: had she been with you at the Wagner residence that day? Yes?
Speaker 1: And tell us what kinds of interactions she had with
Speaker 1: the other people in the home she had stayed on
Speaker 1: my hip for a while until Angela had asked to
Speaker 1: see her, and so I gave her to rosts so
Speaker 1: she could see her while I went and use to
Speaker 1: the restroom. Other than that time period where you win
Speaker 1: the restroom? Was your daughter out of your view while
Speaker 1: you were at the blackness? And did you make get
Speaker 1: back home before you noticed that about your daughter as
Speaker 1: far as her physical condition, yeah, I had made it home, okay.
Speaker 1: And when you say she was unresponsive, what do you
Speaker 1: mean by that? She was just laying there staring out
Speaker 1: into space. I went to pick her up and she
Speaker 1: was as limber as a new one. And what did
Speaker 1: you do as a result of that? I had worked
Speaker 1: my husband and we took it in the emergency room, okay.
Speaker 1: And Drewy Hall where you went the SMC and you
Speaker 1: indicated that they did some tests. And do you know
Speaker 1: what driveway found in her system? Zan X? Were you
Speaker 1: prescribed xanax your husband? No? Do you have any xanax
Speaker 1: in your home at all? And have you been anywhere
Speaker 1: else that day? No? And as a result of that,
Speaker 1: was there a children this investigation? Yes? Okay? And did
Speaker 1: both you and your husband submit to tests? We did,
Speaker 1: but they did not do them at the hospital, okay.
Speaker 1: Did you volunteer to do them at the hospital, yes,
Speaker 1: but you did take tests later about a week later, okay?
Speaker 1: And were those negative? Yes. It was all very shocking
Speaker 1: testimony for the prosecution, showing that George might have had
Speaker 1: violent tendencies and was also tightly bound to his family.
Speaker 1: But the defense mounted a strong cross examination. They began
Speaker 1: with Tabitha's affair with her friend Whitney's father, Jay, and
Speaker 1: the trust issues are created in her marriage. And who's
Speaker 1: Whitney's father? Do you know? Yes? Who is your father?
Speaker 1: Cecil Smith? Cecil Smith? Yeah, how do you know? How well?
Speaker 1: Do you know? Very well? Okay? And Cecil also goes
Speaker 1: by the name Jay, Is that right? Yes? Okay? And
Speaker 1: at some point you had some revelation to tell George
Speaker 1: about Jay, right, Yes? What was that? What was the reason? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was the revelation? What did you have to tell him?
Speaker 1: I had told him that I cheated on him? Okay,
Speaker 1: with with Jay? Right? And in factas was more than
Speaker 1: just one occasion, right, yes? And how old is Jay?
Speaker 1: Not twenty five thirty years older? You were about seventeen
Speaker 1: maybe at the time. No, I didn't get back with
Speaker 1: George until I was about eighteen nineteen. Defense attorney Richard
Speaker 1: Nash also points out that Tabitha and her siblings had
Speaker 1: been sexually abused by her mother's husband, Dave. The defense
Speaker 1: sided this as a quite reasonable reason why the Wagners
Speaker 1: did not want Tabitha bringing their grandchild around to family.
Speaker 1: The perpetrator, the person who victimized you. That's Day, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: And Dave is your mother's husband was is dead now
Speaker 1: he's dead? And when did he die? About five years ago?
Speaker 1: I think? Okay? And your mother was aware of the
Speaker 1: things that Day did to you. Yes, And not only
Speaker 1: did he do these awful things to you, but he
Speaker 1: did him to your sisters. Yes. Now, when you left
Speaker 1: the Wagner home, we'll get to this more in depth,
Speaker 1: but that's where you went, was the home with Day, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: And George did not want his little boy living in
Speaker 1: the same home as Day. Is that what he told you? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: that seems like a pretty rational thing to not want
Speaker 1: your child around the child molester. Right. Yes, you don't
Speaker 1: fault George for not wanting his son to be there, right,
Speaker 1: That was a no? Yes, that was a no. I
Speaker 1: don't blame him, and your mother was an enabler to
Speaker 1: these things that had happened to you and your sisters. Yes,
Speaker 1: the defense also killed Tabitha on her mental health and
Speaker 1: whether she was doing enough to tend to him. Now
Speaker 1: that I have refreshed her recollection, do you recall telling
Speaker 1: David Jenkins you had a perfect life with your husband, yes,
Speaker 1: and who you're referring to as George, right, yes, Okay.
Speaker 1: Now back to George and living with him, He had
Speaker 1: various jobs, right, yes, For a while he worked at
Speaker 1: Bennetts and Medford, yes, okay, and then for some time
Speaker 1: he was hauling cattle right yes. And where he would
Speaker 1: haul cattle, he would be gone for like a week
Speaker 1: on or a week off. Yes, okay. Now back to
Speaker 1: that situation where you had cut your arms? Did you
Speaker 1: ever seek any help for that? The only reason I
Speaker 1: done it was because George and Angela won't shut up
Speaker 1: the man. You learned about getting back on zoloft, even
Speaker 1: though I told him the last time I was on
Speaker 1: zooloft it didn't end well. Zolo Okay, So you have
Speaker 1: been prescribed zoloft, is what you're telling us? Yes? And
Speaker 1: for what reason are you prescribed zoloft depression by poland. Okay,
Speaker 1: and you have said you would agree with me that
Speaker 1: you've said that you don't like taking medication, right, not
Speaker 1: that one enough, okay, any other medication you didn't like
Speaker 1: taking mndelina. Then there were the continued claims of different
Speaker 1: ways that George has been abusive. But the defense took
Speaker 1: this moment to dissect and try and undercut Tabitha's testimony.
Speaker 1: I ask you about that incident when you had left
Speaker 1: the Wager home, if I'm not mistaken, Well, first off,
Speaker 1: you have discussed that incident with the BCI agents, right,
Speaker 1: if I'm me leading about we got in my arm
Speaker 1: about the incident when you left. You've been questioned about that,
Speaker 1: and you and you told them what happened, right, Yes?
Speaker 1: Would you agree with me though, that when you talked
Speaker 1: to the BCI agents you told him that you and
Speaker 1: George were horse playing, playing around with about yes, okay,
Speaker 1: and it's Michael, I don't hear that. Well you said
Speaker 1: what now? What the belt? Yes, with the belt? But okay,
Speaker 1: now you would agree with me that you never told
Speaker 1: any BCI agent that there was playing with a belt? Right?
Speaker 1: What you never mentioned a belt to a BCI agent. Right,
Speaker 1: it's part of that night. I'm pretty sure I did. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, But you've always said that it was just
Speaker 1: the two of you horseplane or plane around, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: at first it was okay, So maybe I misunderstood your
Speaker 1: testimony on direct examination, but it sounded to me as
Speaker 1: if you were saying that he was like assaulting you
Speaker 1: with a belt. That's not true, right, That's not what
Speaker 1: I said, okay, And I may be wrong, but I'm
Speaker 1: just making sure that I understood you correctly. You weren't
Speaker 1: testifying that he was assaulting you with a belt, right, No,
Speaker 1: I did not say he was assaulting me with belt, okay.
Speaker 1: And it was just you guys, we're playing around right
Speaker 1: in the beginning, yes, okay. And then Angela, I guess
Speaker 1: I wanted you guys to stop, yes, because I yelled
Speaker 1: at her precious baby okay, um, all right. And you
Speaker 1: wanted to leave the house, right, yes, And when you
Speaker 1: went to leave, George had put his arm on the
Speaker 1: door so you couldn't leave, yes, okay. Now this was
Speaker 1: in November, right, yes, okay. And when you left on
Speaker 1: your bicycle it was dark, right, yes, okay, And so
Speaker 1: how much time went by from when you're trying to
Speaker 1: leave and when you actually fled on your bicycle it
Speaker 1: was dark. I don't know, maybe an hour now, I'm
Speaker 1: not clear about this. This agreement you went into, you
Speaker 1: had to go into a courtroom in front of a
Speaker 1: judge before you could divorce dissolve your marriage, right, yes.
Speaker 1: And when you stood in front of that judge, the
Speaker 1: judge changed you that you were agreeing to George being
Speaker 1: the soul customer, right, yes. And the judge also made
Speaker 1: sure you understood that all visits would be supervilent, right yes.
Speaker 1: And you were asked if you understood that. You said yes, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: And there was nothing in there about changing these things
Speaker 1: at a later time, right no, okay. And so it's
Speaker 1: fair to say those were your wishes, right exactly what
Speaker 1: the judge had made sure you understood. No, that's not
Speaker 1: my wishes. George told me that it was only temporary,
Speaker 1: that's what was supposed to have been done, and whenever
Speaker 1: I got my own place, in my own job, then
Speaker 1: I could have him back and would do the fifty
Speaker 1: fifty thing. I think that if we may out and
Speaker 1: then we would probably still be together because I still
Speaker 1: love him. I really do. I always have and always will.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't tank having to ask to do something
Speaker 1: with my own son. We're going to take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. As the defensive cross
Speaker 1: examination continued to pay Tabitha in a more uncertain light,
Speaker 1: it was hard to know exactly what to make of
Speaker 1: her accusations. Here's long crime reporter and Jeanette Levy, she
Speaker 1: has been through a lot. And also you know the
Speaker 1: fact that there are Facebook messages between her and Hannah
Speaker 1: Ma roudin days before Hannah May was murdered in which
Speaker 1: they talked about this issue of custody and how the
Speaker 1: Wagoners wanted Hannah Ma sign over custody of her daughter
Speaker 1: that she had with Jake. And it was kind of
Speaker 1: sad to hear Tabitha say that, literally, she still loves George.
Speaker 1: I mean this was back in twenty sixteen, of course,
Speaker 1: but it sounded like she still loved him and if
Speaker 1: they had ever been able to move out on their own,
Speaker 1: they probably would have still been together. She said she
Speaker 1: had told George she wanted them to move out and
Speaker 1: to get their own place. She thought it would help
Speaker 1: their relationship, and she said that George said, we're a
Speaker 1: farm family. We have to live together here again Jeff
Speaker 1: and Stephanie during cross exam. It really painted a picture
Speaker 1: of Tabitha versus the Wagoners, which, as we know at
Speaker 1: the time, Tabitha was a young woman in her late
Speaker 1: teens early twenties, and the Wagoners were kind of a
Speaker 1: force to be reckoned with. It seems like she kind
Speaker 1: of just wanted all of the turmoil to end and
Speaker 1: just be a mom to her son, and somehow signing
Speaker 1: this paperwork and doing what the Wagners want it seemed
Speaker 1: like the path of least resistance to her. I think
Speaker 1: this testimony seems relevant to the charges that George Wagner
Speaker 1: the fourth is facing, because not only does it paint
Speaker 1: a picture of George as someone who is abusive and cruel,
Speaker 1: but also the fact that he really moved in a
Speaker 1: unit with his family, which then, as we know, is
Speaker 1: what the prosecution is saying happened with the planning and
Speaker 1: execution of these murders. And it also speaks to a
Speaker 1: bit of a pattern, a pattern in custody. Correct, does
Speaker 1: that mean it's a pattern in murder. I'm assuming those
Speaker 1: links are still to come Aside from Tabitha, the jury
Speaker 1: also heard from two other key witnesses, both of whom
Speaker 1: opted out of being recorded on the stand. The first
Speaker 1: was Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend, who he shared a child with.
Speaker 1: Here's Anteinette with insight into that testimony. I think the
Speaker 1: jury seemed really interested in testimony since she had a
Speaker 1: relationship with Frankie Rowden. She is the mother of his
Speaker 1: his oldest son, and you know, she had some things
Speaker 1: that were interesting that she was able to tell the jury.
Speaker 1: You know, she talked about getting a phone call from
Speaker 1: Hannah May in twenty fourteen, which sounded terrifying. That she
Speaker 1: said that Angel Wagner ran out of the house and
Speaker 1: chased Tabitha out of the house with a shotgun, and
Speaker 1: that Jake and George and Hannah all followed, and that
Speaker 1: Jake told her not to leave the house. If she did,
Speaker 1: he would chop off her legs. I mean, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1: After a meeting in his chambers, Judge Daring emerged to
Speaker 1: tell the jury that the phone call between Hannah and
Speaker 1: Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend was probative evidence only. This is
Speaker 1: to say, it's meant to prove a relevant fact in
Speaker 1: the case, but could not be used to cast a
Speaker 1: shadow over the Wagner's character. The second witness is Jeff Tackett,
Speaker 1: a one time friend of Billy Wagner's. The pair became
Speaker 1: friends when they were just thirteen years old. Jeff worked
Speaker 1: at the Wagner family's farms and once when hunting with
Speaker 1: the entire Wagner family. According to Tackett, George Wagner flew
Speaker 1: into a rage when his father killed a deer. Before
Speaker 1: he did, George went home early. Tackett testified that George
Speaker 1: was moody and erratic due to the pain pills he took.
Speaker 1: These are pills that Angela allegedly plied him with. Tackett
Speaker 1: was also with Billy in the days leading up to
Speaker 1: the murders. After the massacre, Tackett believed Billy had something
Speaker 1: to do with it and started working with the BCI.
Speaker 1: He agreed to wear a wire and inform on the
Speaker 1: Wagner's Mike Allen, he was a lifelong friend of Billy Wagner.
Speaker 1: He cooperated with the BCI, and he actually wore a wire.
Speaker 1: He saw Billy Wagner days before the murder in a
Speaker 1: room filled with weapons, and that is I think very relevant,
Speaker 1: again a peripheral relevance maybe to George's guilt or innocence,
Speaker 1: but in telling the tale and telling the story of
Speaker 1: the Wagner family, it's important. He worked sometimes at the
Speaker 1: Flying w Farm, which was the family farm, because he
Speaker 1: was helping to break some horses. He knew Christinior, Frankie
Speaker 1: Hannah May, and Chris Junior and said that he warned
Speaker 1: Chris Senor that if you had trouble with them, they
Speaker 1: will harm you or kill you. Here again, Anjeanette. Jeff
Speaker 1: Teckett described the Wagners as being very close, like a cult.
Speaker 1: He's been around the Wagners a lot. He's been around
Speaker 1: Frederico Wagner a lot. He talked about Frederica Wagner even
Speaker 1: gave him a percocet for pain one time because he
Speaker 1: was having an issue, and he said it made him
Speaker 1: feel dizzy, and he told her never to give him
Speaker 1: something like that again. So he didn't want anything to
Speaker 1: do with that, but he did provide a lot of
Speaker 1: interesting information about the Wagners and the fact that he
Speaker 1: believed that Billy Way was involved in these homicides. After
Speaker 1: seeing all of those items in his bedroom. Let's stop
Speaker 1: here for another break. Here's Angie Kneppa examining the next witness,
Speaker 1: Samantha's Daley. Samantha is a longtime friend of both Jake
Speaker 1: and George Wagner's. She has appeared on the podcast before
Speaker 1: and has a history with Jake Wagner. What fare a
Speaker 1: time when you were intimate with Jake Wagner? Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1: And can you tell us who's who inditiated that he did? Okay?
Speaker 1: And if you can just tell us what his purpose was?
Speaker 1: So one summer I got a phone call he did
Speaker 1: not know how to have in a course, I guess.
Speaker 1: He asked me if I could help him out, Being
Speaker 1: young and dumb, I guess I said sure, why not?
Speaker 1: And it was all one time flying. So we just
Speaker 1: did what we did, okay? And do you recall approximately
Speaker 1: when that would have been, I know, a summer, I'm
Speaker 1: guessing around two twelve, but that one night stand aside,
Speaker 1: Samantha felt more drawn to George in comparison to Jake.
Speaker 1: George seemed to have more of his own personality. She
Speaker 1: found him to be effusive and always cracking jokes, whereas
Speaker 1: Jake was always plotting and devious. At one point, during
Speaker 1: his battle with hannahme Rodin, Jake auss Samantha to dig
Speaker 1: up dirt on Hannah to help his case for soul custody.
Speaker 1: Samantha refused. George, Samantha says, was much kinder, nicer, and
Speaker 1: in her words, more bubbly. So, in my opinion, my
Speaker 1: eyes outlooked. George would always go out and do his
Speaker 1: own thing. Jake would always have to get Angela's opinion
Speaker 1: before he would go do anything Angela didn't approve. Jake
Speaker 1: never did. George, on the other hand, would just do
Speaker 1: his own thing. And as I understand it, when you
Speaker 1: were very young, you felt like your mother and Angela
Speaker 1: would kind of pushing you over towards being with Jake. Yes,
Speaker 1: and that you really didn't care for too much. Is
Speaker 1: that right? And actually, as the years wore on, you
Speaker 1: were more attracted to George. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1: He actually made me feel like I was wanted? Honestly?
Speaker 1: He was nice to you, right, Yes, and that continued
Speaker 1: into a dawn put right yes. And in fact, I
Speaker 1: think you just told us a story that when you
Speaker 1: were kind of on a rough spot around Christmas time.
Speaker 1: I think you described, he came over and brought toys
Speaker 1: for your trial. Yes, and gave you cash money to
Speaker 1: help you pay you with the bills. Yes. How would
Speaker 1: you describe him when he was very young? He's bubbly.
Speaker 1: Here again an Jeanette. Samantha Staley said some things that
Speaker 1: were actually helpful to George Wagner. She painted George Wagner
Speaker 1: out to be somebody who was very nice to her.
Speaker 1: She said that, you know, there was a Christmas where
Speaker 1: she didn't have money to buy Christmas gifts for her children,
Speaker 1: and so George Wagner met her somewhere and gave her
Speaker 1: the presents and gave her money to pay her electric bills.
Speaker 1: She said things nice things about the Wagners. Her father
Speaker 1: had had a medical issue, and she said, Frederica, you
Speaker 1: paid to keep utilities on. But after the road and murders,
Speaker 1: Samantha said, George's demeanor markedly changed. Frankie Roden was her
Speaker 1: first love, so she was already shaken by the news
Speaker 1: of his death, but George was less than consoling. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us after the homicides occurred, did you ever
Speaker 1: have contact with Jake or George or Angela or Billy
Speaker 1: after the homicide of the murders. I got my car
Speaker 1: in May of twenty sixteen. I had went fishing with
Speaker 1: George a couple of days later after getting my color.
Speaker 1: Maybe a week after that, I'm sure if it was
Speaker 1: a couple of days or a week, Okay, so approximately
Speaker 1: a month after the murders had happened. Yes, he went fishing. Yes,
Speaker 1: And who went fishing with you? Myself, my husband, and George.
Speaker 1: And can you tell us, first of all, if you
Speaker 1: noticed anything about George during that time? He wasn't the
Speaker 1: same George that I knew. He looked very sad, very hurt,
Speaker 1: very lost, very dead inside. He didn't have the crooked
Speaker 1: smile that he always had, so you knew him to
Speaker 1: be more Joe vile or happy or bubbly bubbily. Yes,
Speaker 1: and how did that strike you? That night when we
Speaker 1: were fishing, we were going to stay there all night. Um,
Speaker 1: it actually started a lightning and he said, I don't
Speaker 1: fish in a lightning. So we honestly started to pack up.
Speaker 1: I had said something Frankie had popped in my mind.
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what I had said, and I
Speaker 1: just started ramlingle and started questioning. You know, can you
Speaker 1: believe this has happened. They're gone, They're never coming back.
Speaker 1: I was pretty much told to shut the f up.
Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the
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Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker,
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Alan Wheater, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me
Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta Music
Speaker 1: by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production
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