1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: And can you tell us, first of all, if you 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: noticed anything about George during that time. He wasn't the 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: same Georgia that I knew. There are Facebook messages between 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: her and Hannah Mae Rudin days before Hannah May was 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: murdered in which they talked about this issue of custody 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: and how the Wagners wanted Hannah me to sign over 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: custody of her daughter. He was a lifelong friend of 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. He cooperated with PCI and he actually warned 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: that Chris Senior that if you have trouble with them, 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: they will harm you or kill you. If George want 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: to just let me go outside to cool off with it, 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: then we would probably still be married. All I wanted 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: was five minutes to cry outside alone. This is the 14 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: Pike Damascar Return to Pike County Season four, Episode eleven, 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: The Many Faces of George. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: producer at KATI Studios, along with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. 17 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: It's important to note that George Wagner the Fourth, along 18 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny 19 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty to all charges. 20 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: We're picking up where we left off last episode, with 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angie Kinneppa examining Tabitha Clayton George Wagner, the fourth's 22 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: ex wife on the stand. Can you tell us what 23 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: time of the day this argument first started? And I 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: don't mean an exact time, but was it the afternoon? 25 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: Was it the evening? It was near evening, Yeah, it 26 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: started to get dark, okay. And did you have any 27 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: more contact with them while you were still there hiding 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: under George's truck? No? Did you see any of them? 29 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: There were flashlights you said. They were flashlights plural, more 30 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: than one flashlight. Yes. And at this point where were you? 31 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: I was still underneath the George's truck, Okay, under the 32 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: cab basically okay, crab by in the front tires. Did 33 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: they find you? Did they eventually give up looking for you? Yes? 34 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: And what did you do at that point? I got 35 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: out from underneath of the truck and went to the 36 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: barn and got my bicycle and you got on You 37 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: got your bicycle, you said, And what did you do? 38 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: I left? I went to the gas station up the 39 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: road by McDonald's. And can you tell us at that point. 40 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: Was it dark? Yes, okay? Approximately how far I that 41 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: to the gas station driving? It's about five or ten 42 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: minutes okay. And can you tell us why were you 43 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: hiding from them? I didn't want to get shot. And 44 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: did you make it to the gas station? Yes, okay. 45 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: Did you encounter anybody along the way? Yes? Tell us 46 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: who George and Jake and their red suburban? And what 47 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: did they say to you? They were trying to get 48 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: me to get in the car so you could go home. 49 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: And did you agree to get into the car? No, 50 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: What if anything did you say to them? And I 51 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: told him that I wasn't going to live with them 52 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: if they're going to hit me. And what happened then? 53 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: Or did you tell them where you were going? I 54 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: told him that I was going to go to the 55 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: gas station so I could call her mom so she 56 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: can come and get me. And is that what you did? Yes? 57 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: Here's legal analyst Mike Allen, followed by Stephanie and Jeff. 58 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: This is key testimony for the prosecution because, unlike so 59 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: many of the other witnesses, this really kind of centers 60 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: on George and she's put the prosecutors painting a picture 61 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: of what kind of a person George was, and you know, 62 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: according to her, it wasn't a very good person. We've 63 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: never been able to connect with Tabitha personally. We've spoken 64 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: to her mother, we've spoken to her sister, and hearing 65 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: her account firsthand of something that we've heard versions of, 66 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: this story of that night when she had run out 67 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: of the house, but really hearing it out of her 68 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: own mouth was something really powerful. Who's living in an 69 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: event that is nothing more and nothing less than traumatic. 70 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: Picturing her even just biking away in the night, trying 71 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: to escape, and then the boys pulling up in that 72 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: car telling her to get in, you know how trap 73 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: she must have felt. After the incident that Tabitha described 74 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: on the stand, the Wagners ended up filing a domestic 75 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: violence claim against her, claiming that she dragged her baby 76 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: across the floor. Now they later dropped these charges. Tabitha 77 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: and George were married, therefore, George had automatic rights in 78 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: the state of Ohio because they were married, so she 79 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 1: literally had to write her rights away and did whether 80 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: she knew what she was signing or not. It was 81 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: around the same time that Tabitha was becoming close with 82 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: victim Hannah may Roden, who as we know, was having 83 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: similar custody issues with her ex boyfriend Jake Wagner. Tabitha 84 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 1: ran through some of the Facebook messages she and Hannah 85 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: had shared at the time. She begins by her counting 86 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: an exchange about being able to share her son with 87 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: George Wagner. Hannah Rodin asked me if I've gotten to 88 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: see laintly. I said no, not yet. Every time I 89 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: said a day to see him, George has something to 90 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: do or somewhere to go. He tells me he will 91 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: message me back when he gets home, but then he 92 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: never messages me back. Hannah says, oh, I would be 93 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: really upset. I would say I'm scared to death that 94 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: they are going to try and take I said, oh, 95 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: I am, and it kills me. Well, you know, since 96 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: y'all was not married, she goes to you automatically, and 97 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: he is the one that gets to see her every 98 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: other weekend or whatever. Hannah says, yeah, I know, but 99 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: they could fight that. I said, yeah, but a judge 100 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: ain't gonna take her away from you. You have a 101 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: good home and people to help take care of her. 102 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: She says, I know, I'm trying to get me a 103 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: place as soon as possible in a job, I said. 104 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean, if George would have just let me go 105 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: outside to cool off of it, then we would probably 106 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: still be married. All I wanted was five minutes to 107 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: cry outside alone. Then there was an incident in twenty sixteen, 108 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: right before the murders, during a visit with her son 109 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: at the Wagner's, Tabitha's newborn daughter was seemingly poisoned. Was 110 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: there another time that something happened after you had visited 111 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: your son at the Wagner residence? Yes? And can you 112 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,119 Speaker 1: tell us Do you recall when that would have been, 113 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: was an mosday or at Easter? And what year would 114 00:07:52,120 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: that have been? Can you call twenty sixteen and can 115 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: you tell us what happened? My six month old daughter 116 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: became unresponsive, so we took her to the emergency room 117 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: where they did tests and found drugs in her system. 118 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: Tell me, first of all, this was a child of yours. Yes, 119 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: she was six months old at the time. Yes. And 120 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: had she been with you at the Wagon residence that day? Yes? 121 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: And tell us what kinds of interactions she had with 122 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: the other people in the home she had stayed on 123 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: My hip for a while until Angela had asked to 124 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: see her, and so I gave her to her so 125 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: she could see her while I wan't use to the 126 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,119 Speaker 1: restroom other than that time period where you win the restroom. 127 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: Was your daughter out of your view while you were 128 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: at the Wagoners? And did you get back home before 129 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: you notice that about your daughter as far as her 130 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: physical condition, yeah, I had made it home, okay. And 131 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: when you say she was unresponsive, what do you mean 132 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: by that? She was just laying there staring out into space. 133 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: I want to pick her up. And she was as 134 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: limber as a newborn. And what did you do as 135 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: a result of that? I had both my husband and 136 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: we took her to the emergency room okay and Dremy 137 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: Hall where you went SMC and you indicated that they 138 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 1: did some tests. And do you know what drugway found 139 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: in her system sat x where you prescribed xanax? Well, 140 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: your husband, no, do you have any xanax in your 141 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: home at all? And have you been anywhere else that day? 142 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: And as a result of that, was there a children's 143 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: of this investigation? Yes? Okay? And did both you and 144 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: your husband submit to drug tests? We did, but they 145 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: did not do them at the hospital. Okay. Did you 146 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: volunteer to do them at the hospital, yes, but you 147 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: did take tests later about a week later, okay? And 148 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: were those negative? Yes. It was all very shocking testimony 149 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: for the prosecution, showing that George might have had violent 150 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: tendencies and was also tightly bound to his family, But 151 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: the defense mounted a strong cross examination. They began with 152 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: Tabitha's affair with her friend Whitney's father, Jay, and the 153 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: trust issues are created in her marriage. And who's Whitney's 154 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: father do you know? Yes? And who is her father? 155 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: Cecil Smith? Cecil Smith? Yeah, how do you know? How 156 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: well do you know Cecil Smith? Very well? Okay? And 157 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 1: Cecil also goes by the name Jay, Is that right? Yes? Okay? 158 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: And at some point you had some revelation to tell 159 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: George about Jay, right? Yes? What was that? What was 160 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: the reason? Well? Yeah, what was the revelation? What did 161 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: you have to tell him? I had told him that 162 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: I cheated on him? Okay, with with Jay? Right? And 163 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: in factus was more than just one occasion, right? Yes? 164 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: And how old is Jay? Not twenty five thirty years older? 165 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: You were about seventeen maybe at the time. No, I 166 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: didn't get back with George until I was about eighteen ninety. 167 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: Defense attorney Richard Nash also points out that Tabitha and 168 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: her siblings had been sexually abused by her mother's husband, Dave. 169 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: The defense sided this as a quest reasonable reason why 170 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: the Wagners did not want to Habita bringing their grandchild 171 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: around to family. The perpetrator, the person who victimized you. 172 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: That's Day right, Yes, And Dave is your mother's husband. 173 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: Was he's dead? Now he's dead? And when did he die? 174 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: About five years ago? I think? Okay? And your mother 175 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: was aware of the things that Day did to you. Yes, 176 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: And not only did he do these awful things to you, 177 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: but he did him to your sisters. Yes. Now, when 178 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: you let the Wagner home, we'll get to this more 179 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: in depth. But that's where you went, was the home 180 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: with Day, right? Yes? And George did not want his 181 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: little boy living in the same home as Day. Is 182 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: that what he told you? Yes, okay, that seems like 183 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: a pretty rational thing to not want your child around 184 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: the child in Alesta. Right. Yes, you don't fault George 185 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: for not wanting his son to be there, right, That 186 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: was a no, Yes, that was A. No, I don't 187 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: blame him, and your mother was an enabler to these 188 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: things that had happened to you and your sisters. Yes. 189 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: The defense also grilled Tabitha on her mental health and 190 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: whether she was doing enough to tend to it. Now 191 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: that I have refreshed her recollection, do you recall telling 192 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: David Jenkins you had a perfect life with your husband, yes, 193 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: and who you're referring to as George, right, yes. Okay. 194 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: Now back to George and living with him, he had 195 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: various jobs, right, yes. For a while he worked at 196 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: Bennetts and Minford, yes, okay, and then for some time 197 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: he was hauling cattle right, yes. And when he would 198 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: haul cattle, he would be gone for like a week 199 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: on or week off. Yes. Okay. Back to that situation 200 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: where you had cut your arms? Did you ever seek 201 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: any help for that? The only reason I'd done it 202 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: was because George and Angela wouldn't shut up. I mane. 203 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: I learned about getting back on Soloft, even though I 204 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: told him the last time I was on Zoloft it 205 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: didn't end welloft. Okay, so you have been prescribed zoloft, 206 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: is what you're telling us, Yes? And for what reason 207 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: are you prescribed zoloft for depression by polar okay? And 208 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: you have said you would agree with me that you've 209 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: said that you don't like taking medication. I not that one, no, okay, 210 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: any other medication you didn't like taking Madelina. Then there 211 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: were the continued claims of different ways that George had 212 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: been abusive. But the defense took this moment to dissect 213 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: and try and undercut Tabitha's testimony. You asked you about 214 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: that incident when you had left the Wagoner home, if 215 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, Well, first off, you had discussed that 216 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: incident with the BCI agents right about me leaving, about 217 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: me cut in my arm. About the incident when you left. 218 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: You've been questioned about that and you and you told 219 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: them what happened, right, Yes? Would you agree with me though, 220 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: that when you talked to the BCI agents you told 221 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: him that you and George were horse playing, playing around 222 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: with the belt? Yes, okay, and it's my fault. I 223 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: don't hear that. Well, you said, what now with the belt? Yes, 224 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: with the belt? But okay, Now you would agree with 225 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: me that you never told any BCI agent that there 226 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: was playing with a belt, right, what You never mentioned 227 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: a belt to a BCI agent, right, I'm it's part 228 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: of that night. I'm pretty sure it did, okay, all right, 229 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: But you've always said that it was just the two 230 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: of you horse playing or playing around, right, Yes, at 231 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: first it was. Okay, So maybe I misunderstood your testimony 232 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: on direct examination, but it sounded to me as if 233 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: you were saying that he was like assaulting you with 234 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: a belt. That's not true, right, That's not what I said, okay, 235 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: And I may be wrong, but I'm just making sure 236 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: that I understood you correctly. You weren't testifying that he 237 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: was assaulting you with a belt, right, No, I did 238 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: not say he was assaulting me with a belt, okay. 239 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: And it was just you guys were playing around right 240 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: in the beginning, yes, okay. And then Angela I guess 241 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: wanted you guys to stop, yes, because I yelled at 242 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: her precious baby, okay, all right. And you wanted to 243 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: leave the house, right yes, And when you went to leave, 244 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: George had put his arm on the door so you 245 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: couldn't leave, yes, okay. Now this was in November, right, yes, okay. 246 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: And when you left on your bicycle it was dark, right, yes, okay. 247 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: And so how much time went by from when you're 248 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: trying to leave and when you actually fled on your 249 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: bicycle it was dark? I don't know, maybe an hour now, 250 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: I'm not clear about this. This agreement you went into, 251 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: you had to go into a courtroom in front of 252 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: a judge before you could divorce or disolve your marriage, right, yes. 253 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: And when you stood in front of that judge, the 254 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: judge told you that you were agreeing to George being 255 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: the sole custom right yes. And the judge also made 256 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: sure you understood that all visits would be supervised, right yes. 257 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: And you were asked if you understood that, and you 258 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: said yes, yes, okay, And there was nothing in there 259 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: about changing these things at a later time, right nope, okay. 260 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: And so it's fair to say those were your wishes, right, 261 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: exactly what the judge had made sure you understood. No, 262 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: that's not my wishes. George told me that it was 263 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: only temporary, that's what was supposed to have been done, 264 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: and whenever I got my own place and my own job, 265 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: then I could have him back and would do the 266 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: fifty to fifty thing. I think that if it out 267 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: then we would probably still be together because I still 268 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: love him, I really do. I always have and always will. 269 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: But I couldn't think havin to ask to do something 270 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: with my own son. We're going to take a break. 271 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. As the defense's cross 272 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: examination continued to pay Tabitha in a more uncertain light, 273 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: it was hard to know exactly what to make for accusations. 274 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: Here's long crime reporter an Jeanette Levy. She has been 275 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: through a lot. And also you know the fact that 276 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: there are Facebook messages between her and Hannah Mae roudin 277 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: days before Hannah Mae was murdered in which they talked 278 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: about this issue of custody and how the Wagoners wanted 279 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: Hannah ma sign over custody of her daughter that she 280 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: had with Jake. And it was kind of sad to 281 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: hear Tabitha say that, literally, she still loves George. I 282 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: mean this was back in twenty sixteen, of course, but 283 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: it sounded like she still loved him and if they 284 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: had ever been able to move out on their own, 285 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: they probably would have still been together. She said she 286 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: had told George she wanted them to move out and 287 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: to get their own place. She thought it would help 288 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: their relationship, and she said that George said, we're a 289 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: farm family. We have to live together here again Jeff 290 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: and Stephanie during cross exam. It really painted a picture 291 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,239 Speaker 1: of Tabitha versus the Wagners, which, as we know at 292 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: the time, Tabitha was a young woman in her late 293 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: teens early twenties, and the Wagners were kind of a 294 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: force to be reckoned with. It seems like she kind 295 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 1: of just wanted all of the turmoil to end and 296 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: just be a mom to her son, and somehow signing 297 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: this paperwork and doing what the Wagners want it seemed 298 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: like the path of least resistance to her. I think 299 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: this testimony seems relevant to the charges that George Wagner 300 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: the fourth is facing, because not only does it paint 301 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: a picture of George as someone who is abusive and cruel, 302 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: but also the fact that he really moved in a 303 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: unit with his family, which then, as we know, is 304 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: what the prosecution is saying happened with the planning and 305 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: execution of these murders. And it also speaks to a 306 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: bit of a pattern, a pattern in custody. Correct, does 307 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: that mean it's a pattern in murder? I'm assuming those 308 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: links are still to come. Aside from Tabitha, the jury 309 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: also heard from two other key witnesses, both of whom 310 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: opted out of being recorded on the stand. The first 311 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: was Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend, who he shared a child with. 312 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: Here's Anteinette with insight into that testimony. I think the 313 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: jury seemed really interested in testimony since she had a 314 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: relationship with Frankie Rodin and she is the mother of 315 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: his oldest son, and you know, she had some things 316 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: that were interesting that she was able to tell the jury. 317 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: You know, she talked about getting a phone call from 318 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: Hannah May in twenty fourteen, which sounded terrifying. That she 319 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: said that Angel Wagner ran out of the house and 320 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: chased Tabitha out of the house with a shotgun, and 321 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: that Jake and George and Hannah all followed, and that 322 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: Jake told her not to leave the house. If she did, 323 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: he would chop off her legs. I mean, that's terrifying. 324 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: After a meeting in his chambers, Judge Daring emerged to 325 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 1: tell the jury that the phone call between Hannah and 326 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend was probative evidence only. This is 327 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: to say It's meant to prove a relevant fact in 328 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: the case, but cannot be used to cast a shadow 329 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: over the Wagner's character. The second witness is Jeff Tackett, 330 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: a one time friend of Billy Wagner's. The pair became 331 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: friends when they were just thirteen years old. Jeff worked 332 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: at the Wagner family's life w Farms and once went 333 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: hunting with the entire Wagner family. According to Tackett, George 334 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: Wagner flew into a rage when his father killed the deer. 335 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: Before he did, George went home early. Tackett testified that 336 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: George was moody and erratic due to the pain pills 337 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: he took. These were pills that Angela allegedly applied him with. 338 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: Tackett was also with Billy in the days leading up 339 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: to the murders. After the massacre, Tackett believed Billy had 340 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: something to do with it and started working with the BCI. 341 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: He agreed to wear a wire and inform on the 342 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: Wagner's Mike Gallon. He was a lifelong friend of Billy Wagner. 343 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: He cooperated with the PCI, and he actually wore a wire. 344 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: He saw Billy Wagner days before the murder in a 345 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: room filled with weapons, and that is I think very relevant. 346 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: Again a peripheral relevance maybe to George's guilt or innocence, 347 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: but in telling the tale and telling the story of 348 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: the Wagner family, it's important. He worked sometimes at the 349 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: Flying w Farm, which was the family farm, because he 350 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: was helping to break some horses. He knew Chris Senior, 351 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: Frankie Hanname, and Chris Junior and said that he warned 352 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: Chris Senior that if you have trouble with them, they 353 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: will harm you or kill you. Here again, an Jeanette 354 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Teckett described the Wagners as being very close, like 355 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: a cult. He's been around the Wagners a lot. He's 356 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: been around Frederica Wagner a lot. He talked about Frederica 357 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: Wagner even gave him a percocet for pain one time 358 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: because he was having an issue, and he said it 359 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: made him feel dizzy, and he told her never to 360 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: give him something like that again. So he didn't want 361 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: anything to do with that. But he did provide a 362 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: lot of interesting information about the Wagners and the fact 363 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: that he believed that Billy Aner was involved in these homicides. 364 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: After seeing all of those items in his bedroom, let's 365 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: stop here for another break. Here's Angie Kinneppa examining the 366 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: next witness, Samantha Staley. Samantha is a longtime friend of 367 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: both Jake and George Wagner's. She has appeared on the 368 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: podcast before and has a history with Jake Wagner. Was 369 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: there a time when you were intimate with Jake Wagner? Yes? Okay? 370 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: And can you tell us who's who initiated that he did? Okay? 371 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: And if you can just tell us what his purpose was. 372 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: So one summer I got a phone call. He did 373 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: not know how to have intercourse, I guess he asked 374 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: me if I could help her out. You, being young 375 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: and dumb, I guess, I said sure, why not? And 376 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: it was a one time thing. So we just did 377 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: what we did, okay. And do you recall approximately when 378 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: that would have been, I know, the summer, I'm guessing 379 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: around twenty twelve, but that one night stand aside, Samantha 380 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: felt more drawn to George in comparison to Jake. George 381 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: seemed to have more of his own personality. She found 382 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: him to be effusive and always cracking jokes, whereas Jake 383 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: was always plotting and devious. At one point, during his 384 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: battle with Hannah may Rodin, Jake guessed Samantha to dig 385 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: up dirt on Hannah to help his case for soul custody. 386 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: Samantha refused. George, Samantha says, was much kinder, nicer, and 387 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: in her words, more bubbly. So, in my opinion, my 388 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: eyes outlooked. George would always go out and do his 389 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: own thing. Jake would always have to get Angela's opinion 390 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: before he would go do anything. Angela didn't approve Jake 391 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: never did. George, on the other hand, would just do 392 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: his own thing, right. And as I understand it, when 393 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: you were very young, you felt like your mother and 394 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: Angela were kind of pushing you over towards being with Jake, yes, 395 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: and that he really didn't care for too much. Is 396 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: that right? No? And actually, as the years wore on, 397 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: you were more attracted to George. Is that fair to say? 398 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: He actually made me feel like I was wanted? Honestly, 399 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: he was nice to you, right, yes, and that continued 400 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: into a don cook right yes. And in fact, I 401 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: think you just told us a story that when you 402 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: were kind of on a rough spot around Christmas time. 403 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: I think you described it. He came over and brought 404 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: toys for your child, Yes, and gave you cash money 405 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: to help you pay with the bill. Yes. How would 406 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: you describe him when he was very young? He's bubbly 407 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: here again and Jeanette Samantha Staley said some things that 408 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: were actually helpful to George Wagner. She painted George Wagner 409 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: out to be somebody who was very nice to her. 410 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: She said that, you know, there was a Christmas where 411 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: she didn't have money to buy Christmas gifts for her children, 412 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: and so George Wagner met her somewhere and gave her 413 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: the presence and gave her money to pay her electric bills. 414 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: She said things nice things about the Wagners. Her father 415 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: had had a medical issue, and she said, Frederica, you know, 416 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: paid to keep utilities on. But after the road and murders, 417 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: Samantha said, George's demeanor markedly changed. Frankie Roden was her 418 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: first love, so she was already shaken by the news 419 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: of his death, but George was less than consoling. Can 420 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: you tell us after the homicides occurred, did you ever 421 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: have contact with Jake or George or Angela or Billie. 422 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: After the homicide of murders. I got my car in 423 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: May of twenty sixteen. I had went a fishing with 424 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: George a couple of days later after getting my car, 425 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: maybe a week after that, I'm um sure if it 426 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: was a couple of days or a week, Okay, so 427 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: approximately a month after the murders had happened. Yes, he 428 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: went fishing. Yes, And who went fishing with you? Myself, 429 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: my husband and George. And can you tell us, first 430 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: of all, if you noticed anything about George during that time? 431 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: He wasn't the same George that I knew. He looked 432 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: very sad, very hurt, very lost, very dead inside. He 433 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: didn't have the cricket smile that he always had, so 434 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: you knew him to be more jovile or happy or 435 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: bubbly bubbly? Yes, And how did that strike you? That 436 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: night when we were fishing, we were going to stay 437 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: there all night, it actually started lightning, and he said, 438 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: I don't fish in a lightning, so we honestly started 439 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: to pack up. I had said something Frankie had hopped 440 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: in my mind. I don't remember exactly what I had said, 441 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: And I just started ranging all and started questioning, you know, 442 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: can you believe this has happened? They're gone, They're never 443 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: coming back. I was pretty much told to shut the 444 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: f up. More on that next time. For more information 445 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: on the cave and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram 446 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: at kat Underscore Studios. The piked In Maskers produced by 447 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wheer, Andrew Arnou, Gabriel Castillo 448 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff 449 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: toa music by Jared Aston. The piked In Masker is 450 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio and Katy Studios. For more 451 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 452 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome 453 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: Markite County Domgled Festival. Queen Lord, I just thank you 454 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: for bringing us all together as a community. Okay, my 455 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: all sad gus fly all over the house. You could 456 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: have killed eight family members in one by I lost 457 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: my best friends and I will never be the same 458 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. 459 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. 460 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was 461 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: the master mind, I'm telling you is a crimer. I'm 462 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: not sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the smaller 463 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch 464 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: our upcoming documentary The Pike County Murders, a family massacre, 465 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on 466 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November 467 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts 468 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.