1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Throughout the eighties and nineties, gang violence plagued the Humboldt 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: Park area of Chicago, and on January sixteenth, nineteen ninety three, 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: members of the Spanish Cobras fired upon three members of 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: the Latin Kings, killing one young man and injuring another. 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: A passer by in a vehicle was also struck by 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: a stray bullet. A confidential informants tip naming sixteen year 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: old Fabian Santiago, allegedly made its way through a few 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: detectives before reaching the lead detective on the case, Ernest Halferson. 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: When the police arrested Fabian, they also claimed to have 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: found a gun in Fabian's bedroom. Then two eye witnesses, 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: including one of the surviving victims, identified Fabian from a lineup, 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: even though the witness's initial descriptions varied wildly from Fabian, 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: who was also not a member of the Spanish Cobras. 14 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: It was going to take a whole lot more to 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: outweigh the state's case. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome 16 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: back to wrongful conviction. And we're here today with a 17 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: story that has so much corruption, and I'll call it what, 18 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: it's pure evil. The miracle is that the man himself 19 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: who was victimized by these horrible detectives and others, is 20 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: that the fact that he's still alive. Fabian Santiago, welcome 21 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: to wrongful conviction. 22 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having me and with him. 23 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: Ashley Cohen is a partner at Bungin Law Group, and 24 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: she and her partner are responsible for justice having been 25 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: not denied, delayed horribly, but not denied after all these years. 26 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: So Ashley, thank. 27 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 3: You for being here, Thanks for having me Jason, and. 28 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: Let's get right into it. This crime is a horrible 29 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: crime with real victims. But this was back in in 30 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: an era when the Humble Park area of Chicago was 31 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: riddled with violence. So it was a horrible crime, but 32 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: also enforcing not a crime that you wouldn't hear about 33 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: fairly regularly. 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: Well for anyone who's aware of Humble Park. It's a 35 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: world of difference today than what it previously was. It 36 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: was the height of the crack epidemic, utterly gang and 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: drug infested. Many murders did not even make the news 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: at that time. It wasn't a place for anyone to live, 39 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,279 Speaker 2: let alone for a kid to grow up. I remember 40 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 2: I would look down and broad daylight to the corner 41 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: of my block, and I would see dozens of gang 42 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: members women prostituted themselves in open air drug markets. This 43 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: is what I grew up to. In fact, early on 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: I couldn't have been more than ten years old. There 45 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: was a rival gang member who was on a bike 46 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: driving down my street and the gang members that lived 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: in my neighborhood spotted him and chased him down and 48 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 2: blew his brains out. 49 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: That was Humble Park, terrifying story. And there are countless 50 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: murders that weren't solved, and then there were countless others 51 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: that were listed as solved that were actually not solved 52 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: at all, like the one we're about to talk about. 53 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: But usually we start by telling what was your life 54 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: like before this happened. You were really just a child. 55 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 2: I was four days and attorney sixteen years old when 56 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: I was framed for murder. 57 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: Previously, we've covered cases from this year in Humboldt Park, 58 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: Marilyn Malaro and Jacques Rivera, and we'll have their stories 59 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: linked in the bio, both of whom were also victims 60 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: of the same notorious detectives, Ernest Halverson and Ronaldo Guevera. 61 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: Make no mistake about it, Detective Halverson Guevara in this 62 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: group of rogue detectives functioned as nothing less than a 63 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: criminal organization, not out of a crack house, not out 64 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: of a gang infested neighborhood, out of the Area five 65 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: police precinct. 66 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: And let us not forget that then, in case you 67 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: think there's any hyperbole here, since the nineteen eighties, over 68 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: one hundred cases proven in which Chicago police officers fabricated 69 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: false evidence and or suppressed exculpatory evidence in order to 70 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: directly cause the convictions of innocent people for serious violent 71 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: crimes that they didn't commitment. Ye. 72 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 2: Yes, and I think it needs to be emphasized the 73 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: fact that these are just the cases that have come 74 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: to light. There have been men who have died in 75 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: prison because of cases like this, irreparably damaged. I have 76 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: no men who took their lives because of the cold 77 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: and stark realities that one has to deal with in 78 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 2: the prison system. 79 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 1: This detective team, Guavara and Halverson, ran a gang unit 80 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: that often investigated the activity of Puerto Rican gangs like 81 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: the Latin Kings, the Latin Disciples, the Spanish Cobra is 82 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: just to day a few. But what is also clear 83 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: is that there are varying degrees to which the residents 84 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: of humbold Park were actually even involved in gang activity, 85 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: if at all. Now, Fabian lived in an area of 86 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: control by the Latin Disciples. 87 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 4: And I'm sure Fabian could speak to this more than 88 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 4: I can. But during this time period, if you lived 89 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 4: on a certain block, you were associated with a certain gang. 90 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 4: It didn't matter if you actually were in a gang, 91 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 4: if you ever were initiated. Fabian didn't have a history 92 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 4: of violent there was nothing in his record, but the 93 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 4: area where he lived and who he hung around with, 94 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 4: all of a sudden he is part of the specific gang. 95 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: There was stipulation that I was associated with the Latin Disciples, 96 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: and that was not even the organization that had carried 97 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: out this homicide, which was according to these police reports, 98 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 2: the Spanish Cobras. 99 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: And the incident at the crux of Fabian's wrongful conviction 100 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: appears to have been a gang hit on the Latin Kings, 101 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: which happened on January sixteenth, nineteen ninety three. 102 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 4: Three individuals, William Stewart, John Meatos and Pedro Muriel were 103 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 4: walking home from a liquor store in Humble Park and 104 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 4: guns were fired in their direction. One of the offenders 105 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 4: yelled King killer and Cobra Love before basically pulling out 106 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 4: a handgun and shooting it multiple times in the direction 107 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 4: of the victims. William Stewart died as a result of 108 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 4: the gunshot wounds, Muriel suffered a gunshot wound that hospitalized 109 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 4: him for six weeks, and Marcelia Hernandez, she was driving 110 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 4: by in a vehicle, had sustained minor injuries as well. 111 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 4: The offenders fled down an alley, and so there's a death, 112 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 4: there's another attempt murder, and there's another individual who is injured. 113 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 3: And there were a. 114 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 4: Ton of witnesses, several of whom could not make identifications, 115 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 4: could not give much of any information about the shooters. 116 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 3: But there were these. 117 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 4: Two individuals, Matos and Rivera, who ultimately were the ones 118 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 4: who gave a description and eventually allegedly identified Fabian in 119 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 4: lineups and testified a trial. 120 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: Matos, a Latin King, was one of the targets. Rivera 121 00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: was a gang member as well, so you can easily 122 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: imagine that they would have been easy for the police 123 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: to coerce. However, Marcella Hernandez, the driving passer by caught 124 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: in the gunfire, and her younger sister Lrena were able 125 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: to give descriptions as well, and while the age description 126 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: for the primary shooter varied from late teens to mid twenties, 127 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: all the witnesses agreed that he was white, Hispanic, about 128 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: five ten, one hundred and eighty pounds, either a mustache 129 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: or a beard, and the accomplice was described as a 130 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: mid twenties Hispanic male about six feet tall and two 131 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: hundred pounds. 132 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: And at the time I was only approximately five foot 133 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: three or four one hundred pounds. I was sixteen years old. 134 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: The shooter who was described as a left handed shooter, 135 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: I've been right handed all my life, so in no way, 136 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: shape or form did they resemble my description. 137 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: Another thing that makes no sense about this case is 138 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: the fact that the shooter yelled out Cobra loved King Killer, 139 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: basically proclaiming his affiliation with the Spanish Cobras and the 140 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 1: intended victims of Latin kings. Meanwhile, as we mentioned, Fabian 141 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: lived in Latin Disciple territory. But Fabian was drawn into 142 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: this mess when Detective Ernest Halverson alleged that he received 143 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: a tip from another detective, Bill Dorsh. 144 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: What happens is Halverson says that he was told by 145 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 4: Bill Dorsch that Dorsch received a tip from another officer 146 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 4: who said an informant told him that he heard Fabian 147 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 4: ragging about shooting some kings and that the gun used 148 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 4: and the shooting was in Fabian's house. 149 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: They came pounding at the door and I was taking 150 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: immediately into custody. 151 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 3: And he's sixteen years old. 152 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: He doesn't have a parent, he doesn't have a lawyer, 153 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 4: and he's placed in an interrogation room at Area five. 154 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: My grandmother at the time is whom I was staying with. 155 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: She was my legal guardian. She arrived at the police 156 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 2: station with an aunt of mine, Alberta Perez, and she 157 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: demanded to see me. She made it abundantly clear that 158 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: she wanted an attorney president and to be there as well. 159 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: My aunt translated for her and informed them that they 160 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: were prohibited from seeing me at that time because of 161 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 2: our lineups being conducted, that he would call them back. 162 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: They never called them. 163 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: So they put Fabian in a lineup for the witnesses. 164 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: Matos Rivera as well as Marcella and Lorena Hernandez, all 165 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,119 Speaker 1: of whom were between the ages of fourteen and seventeen. 166 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,599 Speaker 4: And we've developed significant evidence that shows that there was 167 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 4: a pattern where these Area five detectives investigating these cases 168 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 4: would usually prey on the younger victim and or witnesses 169 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 4: officers like Wavara and officers like Halverson, who would tell 170 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 4: them who to pick out in a lineup. In fact, 171 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 4: Dorshe in another case, testifies that he saw Guavara do 172 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 4: this in a lineup where Guavara basically said pick out 173 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 4: that guy, that's the one who did it, and Dorsch 174 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 4: was like, what are you doing. You're not allowed to 175 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 4: tell somebody who to pick out in a lineup. 176 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: During the lineup, I was the only one that was 177 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: made to stand up and yell out cober Love King 178 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 2: Killer the only one. And no one in that lineup 179 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: resembled me. Everyone was an adult taller older than me. 180 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: And even with that, you had the two women that 181 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: were driving by in the motor vehicle. They told the 182 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: detectives we did not see him do anything. We do 183 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 2: not want to identify someone who was not involved. We 184 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: don't want someone who's innocent going to prison and the 185 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 2: police completely blew up on them, telling her this is 186 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: the guy who did it. All you need to do 187 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: is point them out. 188 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 4: So this whole concept of these young kids picking out 189 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 4: individuals in a lineup. Although it seems, oh, you have 190 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 4: two eyewitnesses who are identifying Fabian as the shooter, it's 191 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 4: usually bogus. 192 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: But unfortunately this information did not come to light until 193 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: Fabian had already spent decades in prison. So after this 194 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: pretty much directed identification from Matos and Rivera at Area five, 195 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: Fabian was returned to the interrogation room, where the misconduct continued. 196 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 4: Halverson tells Fabian that Fabian needed to sign a consent 197 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 4: to search his house so that he can protect his 198 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 4: personal property, which may be destroyed once they go back 199 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 4: there and search his house. 200 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: They're yelling and screaming at me, telling me to sign. 201 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: I had requested the presence of counsel my grandmother. They 202 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 2: weren't trying to hear any of that. They were doing 203 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: everything they could to terrorize and just to get me 204 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: to relent. They will, look, at least, you're going to 205 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: be reimbursed if your stuff is destroyed, because we are 206 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: going to destroy your stuff, and I ultimately ended up 207 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 2: signing that form. The thing was later on, I came 208 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 2: to understand, according to my aunt, that as soon as 209 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: I was taken into custody, these detectives were already tearing 210 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 2: up my home. So irregardless whether they had obtained a 211 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: written consent for me or not, they had already been 212 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 2: conducting the search, so this was all just simply to 213 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 2: cover their asses. 214 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: Fabian was initially charged with illegal possession of a firearm, 215 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: so outside the presence of counsel or a guardian, they 216 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: got mission to find the gun that they originally arrested 217 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: him for. With this trickery to obtain the consent for 218 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: a search, one can only surmise that they did not 219 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: have the probable cause to get a judge to sign 220 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: off on a search warrant. 221 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: It was further solidified that they were planting this firearm 222 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: when William Dorsch came forward and attested I had not 223 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: produced an informant probable cause, and if I had gathered 224 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 2: this evidence, I would have come myself to have arrested you. 225 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 2: I would not have involved these detectives because I had 226 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 2: known even at that time that they were so. 227 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: Corrupt again, this is information that didn't come to light 228 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: until Fabian had already spent almost thirty years in prison. 229 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: And we'll come back to these revelations from William Dorritsch 230 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: a bit later. So back to the interrogation room, they 231 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: had gotten the search consent signed, and then shortly after 232 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: Detective Halverson returned with this gun and pointed it in 233 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: Fabian's face, saying, quote, now you know how it feels. 234 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,119 Speaker 1: This is the gun that you had unquote. 235 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: And when he pointed it to my head, I insisted 236 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: that the firearm was at mine, that I wasn't involved 237 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: he assaulted me. 238 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: So no surprise that you ultimately relented and just said, 239 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what you want to hear. So they 240 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: now had a false confession. 241 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 4: Well, the only thing that came in at trial was 242 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 4: that Fabian made alleged oral statements to Halverson. So even 243 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 4: though Fabian had a gun pointed at him, was beaten 244 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 4: up by Halverson, he still would not give a written 245 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 4: statement to the state's attorney. 246 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: I never signed off on any confession and it was 247 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: not recorded. 248 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: To recap. Detective Halverson and his cohorts had an alleged, 249 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: unrecord ordered oral confession the directed identification from Matos and 250 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: Rivera and this gun that was almost certainly planted that 251 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: they claimed magic bullets founded the scene. At this time, 252 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: Fabian's grandmother sold her home to post his bond and 253 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: help him out a defense. Yet somehow Fabian had even 254 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: more dire problems than this case. 255 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 2: Back at this time, the gangs ruled these neighborhoods with 256 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: an iron fist. And because I was implicated in this crime, 257 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: the laon Kings had placed a contract hit out on me, 258 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: and they tried to gun me down in a car chase, 259 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: and they left a note on my grandmother's house saying 260 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: we know where you live. 261 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 4: So he's again wrongly accused, wrongly accused by the gangs, 262 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 4: and he's wrongly accused by the officers. 263 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: There is no rationalizing, there is no talking it out. 264 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: Not only my own health and safety, but my families 265 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: was at risk. And I left. 266 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: So where the hell did you go? Where is a 267 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: sixteen years kid with no resources, with everybody looking for them, 268 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: Where the hell do you go and hide? 269 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: I left the state of all noise. I just bounced around. 270 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: I wasn't in one single place for too long. Whether 271 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: it was a friend or finding a hotel room or 272 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: an apartment, whatever the case may have been. Unfortunately, I 273 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: had to utilize whatever methods were necessary for me to 274 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: survive selling drugs or just working a part time gig 275 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 2: or whatever have you. 276 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so then finally you get tried in absentia. We've 277 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: literally never had that happen on the show. Ashley, give 278 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: us the cliff notes of this ridiculous trial. 279 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 4: Okay, So Fabian has a private attorney. He goes to 280 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 4: trial before a judge by the name of Judge Tuman, 281 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 4: who was notoriously known for being very hard on juveniles. 282 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 4: They show up for trial, Judge says, where's mister Santiago 283 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 4: and his attorney says, I don't know, can we postpone? 284 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: And Judge says, well, he was told to be here 285 00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: at ten am. 286 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 4: We're going for Basically, the evidence at trial is these 287 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 4: two eyewitnesses who identify him in the lineup, which we 288 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 4: know were bogus, and Halverson testifies that he recovered a 289 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 4: gun in Fabian's home which was tested and the ballistics 290 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 4: matched the gun that. 291 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 3: Was used in the shooting. 292 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 4: And there is a state's attorney who provides testimony of 293 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 4: alleged oral inculpatory statements. He testifies that Fabian admitted to 294 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 4: participating in the shooting, and that's what he's convicted on, which, 295 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 4: if you're looking at it objectively, seems kind of alike 296 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 4: a lot of evidence. The problem is all of it 297 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 4: was built on a lie and none of it is 298 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 4: actually legitimate. I mean, I think the state's attorney, what 299 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 4: he did at this time is almost as appalling as 300 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 4: what the officers did. I mean, they knew what was 301 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 4: going on behind closed doors. There was no court reporter present, 302 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 4: there was no handwritten statement, there was nothing memorialized on paper. 303 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 4: It was just oral statements that come in through Halverson 304 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 4: and through this prosecutor. 305 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 3: So that is just absurd in my mind. 306 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: Other than cross examining Matos and Rivera about the inconsistencies 307 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: between their descriptions of the assailants and Fabian, not much 308 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: of a defense was mounted at all. Plus the appearance 309 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: of going on the lamb probably was not helpful. So 310 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: the jury reached a predictable conclusion, and on May eighteenth, 311 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, Fabian was convicted of murder, attempted murder, 312 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: as well as related firearms charges and sentenced to ninety 313 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: years news that he received while he was still on 314 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: the run for his very life. 315 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: It was crushing and as horrific as it was for 316 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 2: that type of sentence to have been handed down, my 317 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: only focus was on staying away from Chicago to stay alive. 318 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 2: Over a year and a half later, I was depleted 319 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: of funds and I came back to Chicago trying to 320 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: get to assistance, and as I was walking the street, 321 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: I don't know if they knew who I was or 322 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: they were just stopping me, and ultimately I was brought 323 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: back into custody. 324 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: Now Fabian was not only made to serve this insane sentence, 325 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: but he was also being tried for jumping bail, so 326 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: ten more years were added on to this ninety year sentence. 327 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 4: Ten years also for a bail jumping is absurd. That 328 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 4: was a judge being pissed to sell that he didn't 329 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 4: show up the trial. 330 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: I had a public defender. She didn't ask me why 331 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 2: I was unable to attend my trial. She could care less. 332 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: She simply was yelling and telling me, look, the judge 333 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 2: is pissed off. You need to take this plea. I 334 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: figured that it made little of any difference, and I 335 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: accepted it for a total of a one hundred year 336 00:18:46,960 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 2: prison sentence. Because of the incredible amount of time that 337 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 2: I was incarcerated. I was in every single maximum state 338 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 2: penitentiary in Illinois several times over. It was very violent 339 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: and you had to defend yourself. There was men who 340 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: were stabbed up, murdered. In fact, I know of one 341 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: incident where a cellmate got involved in a physical confrontation 342 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 2: with his cellmate and he tore his eyeballs out. He's 343 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: blind and he threw his eyes on the gallery. The 344 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: carnage was incredible. I knew men who have taken their 345 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: lives for far less than what I had endured, simply 346 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 2: because they didn't want to deal with how cold and 347 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: stark that reality was. The United States government propagates this 348 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 2: belief that China Russia engaged in human rights abuses. People 349 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 2: in this country are tortured every day in the prison system. 350 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: So getting Fabian out of that horrible situation could not 351 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: have been more urgent. But the appeals process moved very slowly. 352 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: I went through the core process, ineffective assistance of counsel, 353 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: unlawful searces and seizures. I got nowhere very quick. 354 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 4: And one thing that was crazy is his pellet attorney. 355 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 4: She didn't raise the issue of him being tried in abstentia. 356 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 4: So when you don't raise the issue on direct appeal, 357 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 4: you ultimately waive it because it's not preserved. 358 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how you don't raise that. 359 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: While I was in prison, I immersed myself in study 360 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 2: and litigation. I pursued numerous litigations against the Illinois Department 361 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 2: of Corrections, civil litigations. From these lawsuits that I would 362 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: succeed in, I was able to pay for my own lawyers, 363 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: and every one of these attorneys did nothing but sell 364 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: me a pipe dream and take my money, and worst 365 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 2: of all, cause even further years, if not decades, of 366 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: my life being wasted away in prison. Ultimately, I wrote 367 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 2: Jennifer bon Jing requesting legal representation, and later on she 368 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: had seen me on Zoom and she had bear witness 369 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: personally to my outlage about my innocence. 370 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: During COVID, a lot of the hearings began to take 371 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: place on zoom, and when you had the zoom meeting 372 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: for the judge in front of whom you had the case, 373 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: he would often end up listening in on the proceedings 374 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: for four years, you know, while you're waiting for yours 375 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: to come up. And as a result of that, Ashley's 376 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: partner Jennifer bon Jean overheard Fabian's arguments. 377 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 4: It was around Halloween twenty twenty, and I remember her 378 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 4: calling me and she was like, I just watched the 379 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 4: craziest thing on zoom in Judge Kenworthy. This guy, he's 380 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 4: a Halberson case and he is in on a legal sentence, 381 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 4: was advocating for himself. 382 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 2: I was arguing, basically before the court, look, I'm actually 383 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: innocent of these crimes. However, it would make a flying 384 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 2: fuck of a difference to me if I were guilty 385 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 2: of everything I've done. The prison time of three or 386 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: four men I knew, men whom had been given twenty 387 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: years for murders. They did ten years, and they went home. 388 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 2: And here I was riding away from the age of 389 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 2: a sixteen year old kid, completely innocent of the charges, 390 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 2: and I had lost almost thirty years already. 391 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: By this time, a slew of landmarks gotis rulings had 392 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: made mandatory juvenile sentencing statutes unconstitutional, so Ashley and Jennifer 393 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: were able to split Fabian's actual innocence claim from his resentencing, 394 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: and they tackled that first. 395 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: With the resentencing, I would have been required to have 396 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 2: completed a prison sentence of seventeen years, so I had 397 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 2: completed that sentence by over a decade, which required my 398 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: immediate discharge from custody. 399 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 4: The resentencing hearing was January seventh, twenty twenty two. On 400 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 4: January twelfth, twenty twenty two, He's released. 401 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 2: It was surreal. I had fought so long for that day, 402 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 2: and unfortunately I had been gone for such an incredible 403 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: period of time that all of my immediate family were gone. 404 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: My mother and my only brother had passed away while 405 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: I was in prison. I didn't have any home. My grandmother, 406 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: who made every sacrifice, was suffering from dementia. This woman 407 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 2: raised me, She cared for me and provided for me. 408 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 2: She went into financial ruin to help me. She lost 409 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 2: her house, she lost everything, and now she could not 410 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 2: even remember my name. When I got out of prison, 411 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: I didn't even have anyone to pick me up. Arrangements 412 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,479 Speaker 2: had to be made for someone to pick me up 413 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: and to take me to a homeless shelter. 414 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 415 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,959 Speaker 4: So Robert Almodovar is another one of our clients, and 416 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 4: he does amazing work since he's been out. He was 417 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 4: released in twenty seventeen, and all our clients who have 418 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 4: been released since, he's just amazing. He drives them and 419 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 4: he picks them up, takes them where they needed. 420 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: He was there for me and I was tremendously grateful 421 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: for that. And I remember him telling me he was 422 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 2: going to get me a cheap phone so I could 423 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: have a means of communication. And I told him I 424 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: don't need a phone. I don't have many people in 425 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: my life. If I need to make a phone call, 426 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: I can walk down to the corner store and used 427 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 2: to pay phone. And he goes, Fabian, you don't understand. 428 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 2: You've been gone so long. Payphones don't exist out here anymore. 429 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 2: I got to get your phone. 430 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: It's absolutely devastating to know that Fabian lost so many years. 431 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: Well all along, the information that would have and could 432 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: have set him free was readily available but hidden from view, 433 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: and so in pursuit of his innocence claims, Ashley and 434 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: Jennifer reached out to William Dorsch. 435 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: We had worked with Dorish in the past. 436 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 4: He was a witness and actually Robert al the Dovar's 437 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 4: case and in other cases and pattern and practice cases 438 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 4: as it relates to Guevara. And when we got Fabian's 439 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 4: homicide file, we saw Dorsh's name was on it, and 440 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 4: he read the report and he, in no uncertain terms 441 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 4: said this never happened. What Halverson puts in his report 442 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 4: is Halverson says Officer Cruise from the twentieth District contacted 443 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 4: Bill Dorsch, who was in the same area as Halverson, 444 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 4: and told him about this alleged tip Okay said Fabian 445 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 4: was running around on his birthday saying, my birthday present 446 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 4: was shooting. 447 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 3: Up these people. 448 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 4: Basically, Bill Dorsch said, if an officer from another district 449 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 4: had told me about an informant, I would have memorialized 450 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 4: at some where I would have documented all of this. 451 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 3: And there was none of that. 452 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 4: And there was a signature by him allegedly, but he 453 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 4: said it wasn't his signature. 454 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 2: It was forged. Yes, William Dortch's testimony was groundbreaking. We 455 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: wouldn't have been able to prove. Look, they falsified police 456 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: reports that William Dortch had conducted lineups. He goes, I 457 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: wasn't even in the police station doing any of this. 458 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: They signed his name off. Why would you need to 459 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: do that. You're clearly involved in something of a nefarious nature. 460 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: You had a cycle of concocted story after story, lying 461 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: about informants police reports, conducting unlawful searches and seizures, taking 462 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: people into custody, illegally, beating suspects into confessions, and pointing 463 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 2: a gun at them. I mean, when you have that 464 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 2: cocktail of criminal misconduct on the part of these detectives, 465 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 2: you got to ask what is their motive here? William 466 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 2: Dorts came forward basically affirming my colleagues were bunch of 467 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: corrupt detectives. 468 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: Pretty courageous on his part. 469 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 4: Ultimately he provides us an Affidavid, and we attached his 470 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 4: affidavit along with the police reports to the petition and 471 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 4: we file the petition. 472 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, even more information came to light. 473 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 2: Approximately six months ago, I went to a new doctor 474 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 2: and her medtech's name was Ellie, and they had mentioned 475 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 2: that there were various medical records that were missing, and 476 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 2: I had explained to them that I was wrongfully convicted. 477 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 2: I gave some account of what I had been subjected to. 478 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 2: About two months later, I came back to that same 479 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: doctor's office and the tech Ellie tells me, Fabian, we 480 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 2: live in a very small world. My mother was involved 481 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: in our Kavara case, and every time we see any 482 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 2: cases involving men who were innocent, we always relate back 483 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: to her experience. And she explained to me that her 484 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: mother and her mother's sister who were driving by in 485 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 2: a car, and that her mother had been struck in 486 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 2: the bottox with a bullet, and that when her mother 487 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 2: and his sister were requested to identify and pick someone 488 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 2: out of the lineup, they refused to do so because 489 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 2: they didn't want to send an innocent man in prison. 490 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: And these officers were yelling and screaming at them, telling 491 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 2: them to pick this person out of a lineup, and 492 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 2: they were terrorized. They left that police station utterly distraught, 493 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 2: feeling that the police officers were going to do something 494 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 2: to them, were going to hurt them or try to 495 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 2: even arrest them, but they did not relent. And I 496 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 2: told her that was me in the lineup that your 497 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: mother and her sister refused to identify, and she told me, 498 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 2: I know it was you. I know you were innocent, 499 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 2: and my mother and her sister talk about it all 500 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 2: the time. Every time they see the news, every time 501 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 2: they see someone that was released, they always talk about you. 502 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 2: And I know it was your case. That's why I 503 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 2: told you, and I completely broke down. 504 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: And of course Ellie, the medtech was none other than 505 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Marcella Hernandez's daughter. Her aunt Lorena had given an UPI 506 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: DAVID that included all of this information in April twenty 507 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: twenty two, and Fabian was exonerated that October without even 508 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: having to go through an evidentiary hearing. However, the certificate 509 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: of innocence didn't come as easily, but came nonetheless in 510 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: July twenty twenty three, making him eligible for state compensation. 511 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: But the content of the pending civil litigation has been 512 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: some of the most convincing yet a major Brady violation. 513 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: The gun allegedly used in the shooting had been obtained 514 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: by the detective Guevara from a gang member, not from 515 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: Fabian's bedroom. This detective team, Guevara and Halverson have already 516 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: cost Chicago upwards of eighty two million dollars. Last time 517 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: we covered one of their cases, it was fifty one 518 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: million and that's just from the innocent men and women 519 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: who were able to jump through all of the hoops 520 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: and made it to this level of the exoneration journey. 521 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: We don't know how many others are out there, but 522 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: hopefully will find them all. 523 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 2: You have figures such as this eighty two million dollars 524 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: plus being thrown out there that have resulted from settlements 525 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: in these wrongful conviction cases just under Ronaldo Guevara or 526 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: his crew. That does not entail the tens of millions 527 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: of dollars that the City of Chicago is also paid 528 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 2: in legal expenses to defend against these cases. 529 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 4: These cases penned from anywhere from four to seven years. 530 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 4: They have one outside firm that represents the City of Chicago. 531 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 4: They have one outside firm that represents Guavara. They have 532 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 4: another outside firm that represents all the other defendant officers. 533 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 4: So no fewer than three firms are on every single 534 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 4: one of our civil rights cases that we have that 535 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 4: involve Guavara. And when you think about the amount of 536 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 4: money that these firms build a city to litigate losing 537 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 4: cases for four to seven years, it is absolutely insane. 538 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 4: Not only are they paying attorney's fees, all throughout the process. 539 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 3: There is a statute that says. 540 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 4: If we win, not only are we entitled to the 541 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 4: judgment and award whatever that may be. Fabian did thirty years, 542 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 4: he gets thirty million dollars, but we can also petition 543 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 4: the court for our attorney's fees. 544 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 2: In addition to that, the tens of millions of dollars 545 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 2: to the City of Chicago is also paid to convene 546 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 2: hearings for the city council. You're talking about well into 547 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 2: the hundreds of millions of dollars now. 548 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 4: Instead of looking at these cases individually from the beginning 549 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 4: and saying is this even winnable than saying, hey, he 550 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 4: did twenty three years in prison, I'm going to offer 551 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 4: him twelve fifteen something of that sort. They would rather 552 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 4: spend four to seven years pay outside council. I mean, 553 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 4: we just filed five civil rights lawsuits in September Lovy 554 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 4: and Lovy just filed another eleven. They have more coming 555 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 4: down the pike. Like, that's crazy amounts of money, and 556 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 4: it just prolongs the trauma of these guys who have 557 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 4: already suffered so much. 558 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 2: I got to waste another half decade of my life 559 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 2: to find get some resolution to this matter when they 560 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: know full well what is going on here. 561 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 4: We need to make a push to City Council. You 562 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 4: need to do a better job at assessing these cases 563 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 4: early on. 564 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: The mayor needs to do something now, not when the 565 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: stars are politically aligned for him to do something about it, 566 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: not during the next election cycle. Now. 567 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: So maybe that should be this week's call to action. 568 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: We're going to call on the folks in power at 569 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: Chicago to put an end to this madness. Pay these 570 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: men and women what they deserve, because, let's face it, 571 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: no one can give them back the time that was 572 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: stolen from them. And with that, let's go to closing arguments, 573 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: where I'm going to thank both of you, Ashley and Fabian. 574 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even have the right words to 575 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: express how sorry I am for this unbelievable ordeal. And 576 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: you know how grateful I am to you both for 577 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: being here. And now I'm just going to kick back 578 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: in my chair with my headphones on and my eyes 579 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: closed and listen to any final time you have, starting 580 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: with Ashley and saving our guest of honor for last. 581 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 4: I just want to thank you guys for bringing this 582 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 4: to light and for doing the work that you do, 583 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 4: because you know, as much as we advocate in the courtroom, 584 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 4: it's really important for people outside of the courtroom to 585 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 4: really bring to light the travesties of justice that are 586 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 4: happening as we speak in not just the city of Chicago, 587 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 4: but all over the world. And I think it's really important. 588 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 4: So I commend you guys for really focusing on these 589 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 4: wrongful conviction cases. 590 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 2: I really appreciate you guys inviting me on and having 591 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: me Whomever is out there listening needs to express outrage 592 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 2: about what's going on here. This can't be allowed to 593 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 2: function as the norm. There's no way in the world 594 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 2: that you can have men and women that are framed 595 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: by corrupt detectives just languish in prison and rot away 596 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 2: for not years, decades, and then if that's not sufficient, 597 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 2: to come out of prison and still have to fight 598 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 2: the government for years more before these cases are finally resolved. 599 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: The underlying problem is not simply corrupt detectives. It's systemic corruption. 600 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: These detectives would never be able to get away with 601 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: what they're involved in if it wasn't for their supervisors, 602 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: whether it's a sergeant, a lieutenant, a captain, whether it's 603 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: a prosecutor, a judge, or the Chicago City Council and 604 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 2: its legal department. This is nothing new. These cases go 605 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: back even before John Burge. But John Burge was a 606 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 2: breaking point that should have caused dramatic reform in the system, 607 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: and that has not been the case. The City of 608 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 2: Chicago's it's council members having brought about sweeping reform to 609 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: root out crooked corrupt cops. In fact, all they've done 610 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 2: is take issue with the fact that now they're dealing 611 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: with numerous multimillion dollar lawsuits. These lawsuits would never have 612 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: come to pass if it wasn't for them allowing or 613 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 2: turning a blind eye to this level of corruption. No 614 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: one is held accountable. To this very day, not one 615 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 2: of these corrupt detectives out of the Ronaldo Gavara crew 616 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: has so much as been administratively held accountable, let alone 617 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 2: criminally prosecuted. And as long as these people are not 618 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 2: going to prison the same way poor people go to 619 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 2: prison and they're protected by the government, these abuses are 620 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 2: going to continue. 621 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to wrongful conviction. You can listen 622 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: to this and all the lava for good podcasts one 623 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good plus on 624 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor 625 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 1: Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive 626 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliburn. The music 627 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated 628 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all 629 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. 630 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: You can also follow me on Instagram at it's Jason Flamm. 631 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts 632 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number one