WEBVTT - Ep. 838: How To Translate Animal Language 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.280 bug bitten, and in my case, underware. 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:19.240 Listening past, you can't predict. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.920 Anything brought to you by first Light. When I'm hunting, 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.640 I need gear that won't quit. First light builds, no compromise, 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.480 gear that keeps me in the field longer, no shortcuts, 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.840 just gear that works. Check it out at first light 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.639 dot com. That's f I R S T L I 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:45.239 t E dot com. Today we're joined joined by uh 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:50.880 what I say? Joined joined by George Buman, who's a 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.600 sculptor of bronze artists. He's a naturalist. But here's the 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.560 main deal for our for our purposes here, he's an 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:01.600 animal language and animal intelligence expert. Teaches courses on the 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.679 intelligence of animals. We'll go to those things in Yellstone 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:10.440 National Park. Leads seminars there of helping people understand what 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.920 they're hearing, what they're seeing, about how animals do their business. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.119 He's got a new book called Eavesdropping on Animals. What 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:22.679 we can learn from wildlife conversations. We're gonna dive in 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.920 on all that. But just as a little tickler hit 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.760 me with, you don't need to say a word. Okay, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.920 now listen, listen, this is this is George Buman. No 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.720 brody verify, yeah, no diaphragm in his mouth. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.160 No, no animals in the studio. 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.319 No animals in the studio. We have some bronze pete. 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.640 We have a bronze piece. We have like the makings 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.680 of a bronze piece in the studio. So that turkey 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.919 right there, Tap that turkey so people realize that's not okay, 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.160 that's not that turkey is not making this noise. 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.920 Okay, hit us with okay, hit us with the note. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.800 Hit us with some turkey vocalizations. No, no, this is 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:20.080 just just flat out okay, all right, okay, hit us 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:20.800 with some kyotes. 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:36.000 Way off? You got a good wolfall Oh yeah, let's 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:49.720 hear a wolf. Oh dude, can you do a good 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.080 elk way off bugle? 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:53.880 Yanni does a good bugle, but his Yanni's bugle is 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:54.720 miles away. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.000 Yeah yeahn might be miles away. 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:08.359 Hit me with a good mile away off elk. That's 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.079 a lot closer than Yannis. Yannis is like, you can't 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:11.440 even tell. 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:11.799 If you heard it. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:18.639 You're wondering you've got any good magpie vocalizations? Ravens anything 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:19.799 of the Ravens. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:27.959 Yeah, oh, one of my favorites. They've got a lot 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:29.880 of a lot of range, a lot of meaning there. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:31.600 Let me, I want I want to talk a bunch 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.840 about those guys, because man, it makes some crazy ass. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.240 Noises and it can't be just that making noises for 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:36.840 no reason. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:38.720 Oh no, no, no, no. 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.520 Okay, here's a real challenging one. And just just telling me. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.000 If you can't do it, I wish I could. Can 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.280 you like this tests your whistling skills? Can you hit 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.040 a black can you do black cap chickenye? 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.800 Not to mind action. Yeah, there's they're certain to do 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:54.560 it now too. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:56.839 Good. 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.400 That's a tough one, but you know how good it works. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.480 So yeah, because people that can do it can bring 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:02.400 them in like crazy. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.960 That's pretty good. Yep, damn yeah. 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.200 All right, all right, we're gonna get it off and 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.440 now that but what like, like, here's the main thing 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:16.600 I want. One of the main things I want to 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:17.880 talk to about when we get to I got to 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.040 do a couple of announcements is not just the noises, 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:21.480 but like. 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.440 There's the what like what they're talking about? 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.560 It means stuff. Oh, I can show you things you 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.159 would never ever have found. 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.160 They obviously mean stuff, but like because they're not doing 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.320 it for fun. No, I mean, it might be fun, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.920 but they're not you know what I mean. Yeah, what 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.360 it all means. One of the main the first thing 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:43.800 to so you know what's gonna come. One of the 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.240 first things I'm gonna ask you about is you know 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.440 a pine squirrels pissed off noise or whatever his noise is. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.039 Yeah, I can't do it real good, but there's a 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:55.039 ton of meaning in that. 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.720 Oh yeah, Ton, Yeah, you know. 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:05.400 He's pissed at his body. 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:04.479 Fisted at the bobcat. 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.800 Yeah, okay, real quick. 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.320 So there's a new YouTube. The Bear Grease YouTube channel 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.960 is becoming its own thing. A little behind the scenes 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.960 thinking here, Clay Clay started a YouTube. 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:19.440 Channel million years ago and it was like the. 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:23.039 Bear Journal or because when Clay owned Bear Hunting Magazine, 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.440 he had had a YouTube channel, So it's always been 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.440 kind of lurking around there. That YouTube channel is going 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.080 to stay like that's Clay's baby. But Clay and Bear 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.840 Nwcomb are going to build out the Bear Grease YouTube channel. 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.159 So all about them making them little bows out of sticks. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:45.839 Hunting content, Mule content cooking stuff okay, And they're also 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.600 launching their own Instagram page, Round Bear Grease and I'll 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.160 tell you we haven't gotten it. I might be the 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:57.720 first guy ever mentioned this. Clay's book that's coming out 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.599 in a long time from now is exceptionally good. 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.240 It's good. I mean, I've only read the first five chapters. 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.360 It's it's a book. It's a it's a book. It's 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:12.640 like a history of the black bear. It is good, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:18.480 including a large chapter on the circumpolar bear culture. I 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.520 don't know if I can. I'm allowed to. Yeah, why not? 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.320 Clay just he's turning his booking right now. There's circumpolar 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:25.960 bear culture. 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.640 Is crazy because there's like a latitude. 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:35.200 Band all around the continent, so it touches North America, Europe, Asia, 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.720 around the northern hemisphere. It's yeah, it's a band of latitudes, 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:45.240 northern northern latitudes all around the globe. And if you 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.520 think about the human diaspora, like how people spread around 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.039 the world, these are people that split. There's people within 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.560 this that split apart way long ago. Like meaning if 0:06:55.600 --> 0:07:00.800 you imagine, like imagine it's human's column, like humans are 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:05.080 kind of in. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.400 The Middle East. Humans are in Africa. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.480 You know, humans are up in Spain wherever, and eventually 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.160 some of them come around and wind up in Siberia 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.920 and some come around and wind up in northern Europe. 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.880 Now by this point they haven't been hanging out together 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.920 for tens of thousands of years, right. 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:22.680 But. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.840 You look at their religious structures and sort of like 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:32.080 spiritual understandings of bears, and you have this circumpolar bear 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.360 culture where people that wouldn't have no interaction with each 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.320 other develop or no interaction with each other for thousands 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.720 and thousands of years, develop the same sort of religious 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:49.240 understandings of bears and how bears fit into their culture 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:54.120 and the shamanistic aspects and like motivations that are assigned 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:58.600 to bears. And you cannot explain it how some dude 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.760 in Siberia, some dudent America, some dude in Europe have 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:07.040 the same concept of like how you treat a bear 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.560 when you hunt for a bear? What are your obligations 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.880 to the bear? That you definitely don't want a bear 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.000 to see you once it's dead, So if you kill 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.080 a bear, you approach it from behind. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:19.960 Like these dudes are on the same trip all over 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.160 the do you know what I'm saying. 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:26.280 No, it's so weird, man. I hope he's not pissed 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:27.040 that I'm bringing that up. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.960 Does he have no bear Mother story in there? Is 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.199 that that one that goes all over Northern Hemisphere? 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.520 It's all over, It's in there. He's got every damn 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.720 thing in there. Yeah, that's neat. 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.720 No, it's a super cool book available long time from now. 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.800 So the Beary's YouTube channel be run by Baron Clay nukeomb. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:48.640 Yeah. 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.960 Oh February eleventh, two days before I turn fifty two, 0:08:55.160 --> 0:09:00.400 very auspicious days. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:04.480 Here's a great correction. 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.319 We're gonna start a thing where you win a prize 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.240 for you know, we're trying to, like in an age 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.320 of disinformation, shady information. 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:17.000 Yeah, we're trying to. We're gonna have a weekly prize 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:20.559 called Correction of the. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:25.400 Week for the biggest fib so no rewarding people who catch. 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:25.920 Us being wrong. 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.240 Ah, that's a good thing. 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:29.240 Yeah, check this out. 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:31.880 For instance, there dam made a comment and that was 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.080 this is when we talking about stuff I didn't know. Well, 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.559 he even has the thirty seven minute mark. Episode eight 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:44.000 twenty six, was that episode called Skunk Smells Her First? 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:48.199 No, that wasn't it how skunks can ruin a marriage? 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:52.960 Okay, I said, oh, to my defense, I'm still this 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.040 is still a correction. To my defense, I said, I 0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:00.760 don't think that a human operating word here being I said, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:06.480 I on the subject of skunks and skunk essence, I said, 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:11.480 I don't think that a human can make. 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:14.520 That. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:18.000 I didn't finish quite then, I okay, I. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.280 Said, I don't think that a human can make. 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.000 I don't think in a lab you could make as 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:31.200 pugnacious or resilient of an order in a laboratory. Guy 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.120 wrote in He's like, you're way wrong. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.480 They can't. Humans can and have, And he gets into 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:40.600 some of these odors. 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:46.640 While the skunk order is due to fields mercaptains sulfur 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:52.240 containing compounds, he says, there are other compounds, both synthesized 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.120 and isolated in laboratories that samel much worse. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.160 I like this one. They have a. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:05.120 Lab ba odor called cadaverine, which is a lab produced 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:16.719 odor of decaying flesh. They have pyridine putressine, and what 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.000 he regards to be the worst smell of all time, 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:27.400 thio acetone order, so potent it causes nausea. Vomiting and unconsciousness. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:32.680 There was a lab leak. There was a lab leak 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.240 in Germany where they had they had a lab leak 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:42.800 of thio acetone and Germany and for a half mile 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:51.000 radius around the lab people reported nausea, vomiting, and unconsciousness 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:52.680 from a leak. 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.040 Powerful and what do they use that for? 0:11:58.280 --> 0:11:59.320 Usually I don't know why. 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.680 I don't know how they justif either way, I don't 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.040 know how. That's a great question. This would be one 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.200 of those things we talk about ridiculous maybe when you're 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.280 like hacking on science, like the dumb stuff they spend 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.840 money on making bad smells. 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:14.760 Yeah, all right, so I'm staying corrected. 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.760 That's a good correction right there, man, I said, this 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:18.560 is the kind of correction. 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:20.760 What will be the prize when you get correction in 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.520 the week, It's gotta be something good. But it's we 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:23.360 have a lot of it. 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.239 We're gonna maybe. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:26.240 We gotta fifty two of them. 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.440 Maybe this will excite people more. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:30.959 So. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.719 We will have a segment sponsored by to Cova's. To 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.760 Covas is. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:38.640 Well, They're gonna do the they are. 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.240 Kickers Correction of the week and we will choose the 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:47.200 winning correction of the week. For We'll do this for 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.240 about a month first to see and the correction of 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.719 the week winner gets a pair of takovas. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.240 Oh, so we're gonna start out you get a pair 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.600 of ship kickers, and then but we'll come up with 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.880 something comparable every time. 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:06.080 Sure that's phenomenal corrections. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.880 This would be this would be a great This would 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.440 be a great one, I say, And again I said, think. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.120 I say, you can't make something worse than that in 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.120 a lab. Guys say, hey you can. Here's another correction. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:20.800 He calls it a craction by omission, but I'd like 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.360 to correct him. It's not a correction, bio missions, just 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:30.280 a correction. So I don't think he'd win because like 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.600 he's saying, hey, here's a correction by omission, and then 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.440 when I tell you the craction, you realize it's not 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.880 a correction, it's just a correction. He's just trying to 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:44.040 soup it up. I said. We were talking about retrieval laws. 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.959 We're talking about that in different states you have these 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:53.679 different governing laws about whether you can go and get retrieve. 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.560 Game. Okay, so picture that you're sitting there. 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.199 You're sitting there and you you you shoot a duck, 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.360 you know, ducks flying overhead, and you shoot a duck 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.640 and all of a sudden he like sails off and 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:11.040 plump lands overund the neighbor's place. States clarify. All states 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.680 have clarified, Like what are you allowed to do? Some 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:20.120 states you just flat out go get it. There's a 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:25.360 state where you can leave your gun behind and go 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.200 fetch it. And there are states like the one I'm 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.200 sitting in right now, you have no right or authority 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.400 to go fetch it. You'd have to go take it 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.440 up with the landowner and be like, listen, man, I 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:37.760 sailed to duck over around your place. 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:38.560 Can I go grab it? 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.680 And as terrible as it sounds, I mean I'm totally like, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.200 I'm like totally fine with that rule, but I would 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:52.320 like to think that most landowners would, when approached, facilitate 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.480 the recovery. I understand. I'm not condemning the rule because 0:14:55.480 --> 0:15:01.480 I understand that there are situations is where someone could 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.920 set up in a way where they just basically know. 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:04.960 That that's going to be the outbum. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.760 Yeah, I mean it could be abused for sure, especially 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:08.560 with big game. 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.600 I feel like, yeah, where you're hunting in a spot 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.440 where you're just if you're sitting there going like, well, yeah, 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:17.480 I know it's going to run on in the neighbor's place, 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.040 but I'm allowed to go get it, so that doesn't 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.479 matter like that, that's probably that could be potentially problematic, 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.800 he points out. So I say, in South Dakota, how 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:31.680 it's legal to retrieve upland game such as pheasants without 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:38.240 land owner permission? Okay, but yetta be unarmed. We clarified 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.680 that meaning you hit a pheasant, you hit a pheasant, 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.280 he sails off. On the neighbor's place in South Dakota, 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.520 you lean your shotgun whatever, set your shotgun down, you 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.000 run over and fetch it, he pointed out, And he 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.440 says that it was correction by omission. 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.320 He points out, you can't do that with big game. 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:56.680 Isn't that weird? 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.120 Strange? But I think it might be. South Dakota has 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.160 that rule where you can hunt in the ditch alongside roads. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.400 It's like a right away. So I think a lot 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.280 of those birds that get shot end up ten yards 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:15.080 onto you know, where you're not permitted to go. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.520 Yeah, they're doing it because of the rule. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.840 You can ditch hunt Yeah, that's what I think. Yeah, 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:24.840 but you can't. Yeah, so just you can't. You can't. 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:26.840 You can chase a pheasant, but you can't chase the deer. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.520 But if a buck sprung up out of that ditch. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.000 And you are allowed to have your dog run over 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:32.640 and fetch it. 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:35.080 But check this out. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.080 Let's say your dog runs over to fetch it flush 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.920 is a pheasant. This is what this guy's saying. If 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.160 he's wrong, sending a correction, and he'll have to give 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:51.040 you a prize for correcting him. If your dog runs 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.960 over onto a private Let's say you're hunting your ditch 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.720 hunting and your dog runs onto some dude's place and 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.600 flushes a bird off that dude's place, and that bird 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.480 then flies over you on the right of way. You 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:11.080 can't shoot the bird because your dog can go retrieve, 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:12.920 but he can't go hunt. 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:23.200 And that's basically having a dog with a shotgun. Here's 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:27.360 a nurse skunk story that was a bad segue. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.360 This guy says this, this last week, I had been 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.520 skinning a skunk that caught the coyote trap. I wasn't 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.119 really paying attention when I accidentally poked a hole in it. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:37.840 Sent gland. 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.080 After realizing the terrible crime. Oh, we're done with corrections, 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.960 not right, Yeah, this is this is this is a story. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:46.080 Okay. 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.240 After realizing the terrible crime I had just committed, I 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.359 put the skunk outside to let things air out, so 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.960 he was skinning an inside. An hour later, the cop 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.920 showed up. Well, the local police showed up in my 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:03.919 house to inform me that there was a terrible smell 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.400 coming from my house, to the point that the local 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:12.640 middle school had to go into lockdown because they thought 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.760 kids were smoking massive amounts of weed. 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:16.680 He's the word marijuana. 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.760 They even had the fire department come to the school 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:26.880 to test the air for toxins. Now, my whole town 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.520 has been talking about me and infern to me as 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:37.440 skunk boy. I don't think the smell was that bad, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.520 but I'm not sure what to do because I make 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.320 a homemade skunk based lure that I used to catch 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.600 all my predators. Here it goes into a question. This 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.760 becomes like a like a advice advice. This is becoming 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:49.840 an advice column. 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.360 Do I stop making it and risk being less successful? 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.679 He's leading the witness. 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:03.840 He asked, do I stop making it in risk being 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.399 less successful on the trap line, or do I keep 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.920 making it in secret and hope there isn't another incident. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:16.840 I think that there is a middle ground Hunter Gregory. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:18.760 See here's the evidence. The name of your kid Hunter 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:24.840 doesn't backfire. Yeah, his name's Hunter, didn't backfire. No names 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.359 their kid fishermen angler. 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:29.840 Yeah, they probably don't. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:30.520 I don't know. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:31.439 I've never heard it. 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:39.440 No names are kids, sportsperson outdoors? A person his name's Hunter. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:43.000 It didn't backfire. Obviously he's obviously he's like neck deep 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:47.600 in the disciplines he's from. I'm not gonna give his 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:52.760 last name. I think you got to take this whole 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:59.680 operation elsewhere if it depends you have the right. Well, 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.919 what's that machine we want to get the founder of 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:05.600 this machine on the. 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:07.720 Nasal raider nasal radar. 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.800 We're calling the raider, but the nasal there's a machine 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.760 that they use that quantifies bad smells. You know about this, 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.439 called the nasal radar. I would say nasal raider, but 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:19.960 I was misreading it. That's a correction. 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:21.760 The nasal radar. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.680 It's like when you get a oh, nasal ranger, sure, okay, 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:30.399 nasal ranger. When you get a smell complaint, like some 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.760 dude skin and skunks. It's so subjective. 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.080 Yeah right, it's like why not bother you? 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.560 Yeah, Like the lady over there thinks it smells too bad. 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.520 The guy over here, he doesn't think it smells that bad, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.560 So it does it smell that bad. The nasal ranger 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.480 is a machine that you put on your nose. It 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.919 looks like an elk bugle with contraptions coming off it. 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:56.760 Can you pull this up, Phil, just so people can 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.400 see it? To me again, you don't have a little 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:00.240 computer over there, and. 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:01.040 What was to do it? 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:02.879 I do, but I don't have a picture. 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:04.000 I guess I could just google it. 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.119 It tells you how bad you think it should smell. 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.880 The nasal Ranger. I watched this whole video, but it. 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:11.600 Just looks insane. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:12.640 Okay, Okay, Like. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.879 Let's say someone's like, dude, the hog farm next to 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:16.119 my place is killing me. 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.120 It smells so bad. 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:19.640 And it winds up being like, well, according to who 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.440 the nasal ranger you. 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.520 It looks like an Eler bugle that hooks to your nose. 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.560 There's a little nose coup, but it's got filters and 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.840 shit coming off. Okay, you go out there and there's 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.200 a meter that shows like what it. 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:42.399 Okay, right there, it looks like if a cop was, yeah, 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.200 clocking you radar. 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.320 You would think that if you saw this, you would 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.880 think a cop is smelling how fast your car's going. 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.800 Okay, there's a. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.439 Whole article in the New York Times, like. 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.000 I'm getting to that, but I want to tell you 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.600 I want one so bad because I want to be 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:05.719 able to use it in arguments of my wife. 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.640 Yeah, be like see it's not so bad. 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:10.960 She sends me one of her like twice a year. 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:12.160 I can't live like this. 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.200 Okay, oh yeah we can. We can invest in one, 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:18.840 just like we did the Warner Bratsler's Sheer Force. 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:20.760 They're less expensive. 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:24.479 That's good, Like we bought that and I don't know, 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.840 maybe we spent too much money on that thing for 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:29.000 how much we needed it. 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:31.920 We're gonna keep trying to get our money's worth. 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:36.520 Okay, here's here's my here's the other day, here's my wife. 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:37.919 My wife has this to say to me. 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:41.600 She's gonna have a lot more to say to you 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.119 after you put this in a podcast. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:46.679 Wife says, two thousand dollars. 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:50.520 By the way, there's two thousand bucks little background of 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.440 my wife. My wife all has always worked. She worked 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:56.520 all through having babies. She's taking time off of work 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.200 and now she's like, now that she doesn't have baby, 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:01.639 she's not working. She just know what people do with themselves. 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:04.240 So it's great. She started to trying. 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:08.920 She's not play tennis totally great, started baking. 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.159 I am at tennis and can't figure out why my 0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:19.520 ankles are so itchy. I have small itchy bumps on 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:24.160 both ankles. If you brought fleas into our house because 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:26.679 of the things you trapped, you need to figure that 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.520 out now, like before work. I am not going to 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:35.360 live like this, soie right. 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:36.520 I get these all the time. 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.320 A lot of times they have to do with defensive odors. 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:43.520 And if I had a nasal ranger, I would be 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:47.280 able to be like, well, let's check you could avoid 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.160 cons I would be like, let's see is it offensive 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:50.600 or not. 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:52.800 Let's take the subjectivity out of it. 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:54.560 We need to make content out of it. 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:55.439 Let's measure. 0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:58.120 I'm going to talk to our CFO about getting. 0:23:57.840 --> 0:23:59.560 The subjectivity is the hard part. 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:00.640 Man, That's what the ranger. 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.359 So you can you can put any kind of ranger 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:06.320 on that you want. 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:07.919 I'll be like, well, you know what, it's actually not 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.560 offensive because I hit it with the nasal ranger and 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.440 it's in it's inemptible living. 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:17.200 So now then ranger, you hook it to your nose. 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:20.159 And so let's say someone's like it comes to you 0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:22.760 with their complaining about how something smells, and they go 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:27.400 just smell. Yeah, Well people don't breathe that way, right, 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:29.560 That's that's not fair. 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:32.720 You know, no one comes around going. 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:37.879 Not Just last week, I was, uh, I had already 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:43.479 boiled this coyote skull, but it needs a little touch up. 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:45.720 There was some things that were still hanging on there, 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:49.160 and my wife laughed. I was like, I'm just gonna 0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:52.920 do it on the stove. Sure I didn't smell a thing, 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:56.439 but when she got back she smelled it, yeah, and 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:58.480 I was just like, it smells a little like boiling meat. 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:00.600 That's all exactly. 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:08.200 Yeah, we'd clean out the whole university building that way. 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:10.960 That's that is its own kind of that is a 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:15.119 crazy odor. The nasal ranger you put it up to 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:19.119 your nose and there's a little meter that shows that 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:22.760 you're inhaling normally, So you can't go in and not 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.760 breathe and say like, I don't smell nothing because you're 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:28.960 not breathing and you can't go in and over smell. 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:36.880 It makes it that you're hitting like a baseline normal breathing, 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:40.400 and it's got these contraptions on it that are sucking 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:45.960 in the air and it's throwing out a calibrated offensive measurement. 0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:50.439 So you can apply a number to when something reeks. 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:53.040 I love it. So let's say someone in. 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:55.000 The summer, some guy hits deer and stop by your 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:57.800 house or whatever, and it's chromnell maggots and someone's like, 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.520 my god, that smells. Imagine if you can go, yeah, 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:05.760 it's a five, yep, and apply a number to a 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:08.000 thing that is just entirely subjective. 0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:10.919 I have a feeling that with fifty years of a 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:15.280 life lived, you know, breaking down animals, smelling everything there 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:17.000 is to smell, I have a feeling that the nasal 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:21.280 Ranger will skew towards the gen pop and probably I 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:25.119 think everything you are completely deadened to will read as 0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:26.280 offensive to most people. 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:31.120 Yeah, that's why I need a nasal ranger. 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:35.159 Tweak the settings a little bit so it comes out 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:36.320 in your favor, Like. 0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:38.919 Hack into the software or whatever to make it like 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:41.399 not because yeah, because what if it backfires in Your 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:44.680 wife is like, no, dude, this is a high as 0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:45.520 it's an eleven. 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:49.199 Yep, it's an eleven anyway. 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:52.320 So this guy making this lure, and I understand, but 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.600 I don't know why in the world you're making that 0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.479 next to the school. It's like, I feel like you 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:00.280 have a right to do it, but take the operation elsewhere. 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:05.480 Yeah, I mean he did puncture the gland, which I'm 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:07.679 sure made it. Oh well, he a hundred times worse. 0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:10.840 Yeah, so he probably knows if he's making this lure. 0:27:10.920 --> 0:27:11.439 He knows that. 0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:14.199 You go down to Murdochs and you go into the 0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:18.359 veterinarian care aisle and you get one of them large 0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:22.439 gauge hypodermic needles. I mean the kind of needle you 0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:23.800 can look through the son of a bitch, you know 0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:26.960 what I mean. You get one of those heavy gauge 0:27:27.280 --> 0:27:31.399 veterinarian needles that they use inject cattle with, put that 0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:32.600 into there and. 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:37.240 Suck that smell out elsewhere yep, not at home. 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:39.879 Then you mix it in with your vasoline or your 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:41.920 petroleum jelly or whatever you're putting in New so you 0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:47.000 got a skunk based paste elsewhere out in the woods. 0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:49.959 Here's another tip he might want to know about. And 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.480 I was turned on to this one that works very well. 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:57.480 Get yourself a big sack of kitty litter. Get yourself 0:27:57.520 --> 0:27:59.400 one of those small action packers or everyone. 0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:00.159 He was, I don't care. 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:03.280 This tough five gallon bucket whatever, Fill it with kitty litter. 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:08.560 Once you make your lure, deep six it in that cat. 0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:12.920 Litter, deep six the lure in there. 0:28:13.600 --> 0:28:17.959 Store it incaste. I got store it in a in 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:26.920 a container deep down in kitty litter for your offensive odors. 0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:30.040 That won't escape that no, And when I get a 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:31.320 nasal range, I'll prove it. 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:33.239 I'll prove it. 0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:36.320 We'll take a draw off some skunk and then we'll 0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:38.280 put it down in a bottle and kiddy lure and 0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:39.200 take a draw off it. 0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:39.840 And you won't. 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:41.520 That naise range is not going to pick it up. 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.480 Another guy wrote in about skunks. He's in the nuisance 0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:49.920 wildlife removal business. They do with a lot of skunks 0:28:49.920 --> 0:28:52.080 in the spring and summer. You can picture this skunk 0:28:52.120 --> 0:28:54.880 gets in your house, living under your porch. Someone gets upset. 0:28:56.720 --> 0:29:04.640 They they catch them in cage traps and they kill 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:11.560 them with in a CO two chamber for euthanasia. Do 0:29:11.600 --> 0:29:13.360 you guys remember we were talking earlier. Do you remember 0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:18.320 during the pandemic when they had to like in northern 0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:21.720 Europe they had to kill all those hundreds of thousands 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:22.400 of mink. 0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:26.880 Which they pelted, you know, they pelted those all out, 0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:28.200 they did. 0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:30.920 Yeah, I thought that it would like make mink prices 0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:34.680 skyrocket because they killed all these branch or whatever. But 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:38.640 someone's like that all went to market anyhow. Why I didn't 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.000 realize they got these little gas powered rigs they drive 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:43.480 around in on those mink farms, and there's a box 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:46.840 on the rig and it's harvesting its own CO two. 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:50.520 So like you're driving this little golf cart around and 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:55.440 it's harvesting its own emissions. To youth, the whole thing 0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:59.040 sounds just like not a good line of work, like 0:29:59.120 --> 0:29:59.920 a tough business to. 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:03.240 That's how they do that. They're killing him like that. 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.040 So this dude is saying, when they get like a 0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:09.320 problem skunk, they euthanize it with CO two. Well anyways, 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:10.920 and then they throw him in a freezer, which I 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:14.640 don't get. But they had a guy in there, and 0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:17.200 he says, I'll put it delicately and say he lacked 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:20.959 attention to detail. He pulls a skunk out of the 0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:28.160 CO two chamber too early and places it into a freezer. 0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:31.920 A half hour later, a different guy comes along and 0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:36.600 opens the freezer and there's a skunk. Bam, fine no oh, 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:40.200 shuts the freezer real quick. I got you, makes a 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:42.480 plan on how he's gonna deal with this, but then 0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:45.920 the skunks waiting for him the next time. 0:30:45.760 --> 0:30:53.080 He opens the freezeropp nailed them. He says, you can't 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:54.480 get that smell out of that freezer. 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:56.600 Oh yeah, that doesn't surprise me. 0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:02.360 Lastly, oh so you do want to say this. You're 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:08.400 back to wanting to say this. Okay please? Uh one 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:08.880 more launch. 0:31:08.880 --> 0:31:10.800 We got a thing coming out called twelve and twenty six, 0:31:11.280 --> 0:31:13.600 So that means in twenty twenty six we're gonna. 0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:16.360 At least like twelve outdoor films. 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:19.480 Each episode showcases a hunt from a different Meat Eater 0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:23.920 crew member. The first episode features Yanni's archery black Bear 0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:28.160 Hunting Manitoba, which is out now, so stay tuned for 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:30.560 more and check out these hunt episodes of twelve and 0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:34.560 twenty six series all Right. 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:42.600 George hit me with, let's don't know, I want to. 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:44.760 Get into the animal communication stuff here, and I want 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:46.520 to talk about brown sculptures, but I want to dive 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:50.240 into the animal communication stuff here. If you could think 0:31:50.280 --> 0:31:55.320 about from your career and your study of animals, what 0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:58.000 and let's let's keep to what lives around here? What 0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:01.720 animal do you think lives around here? Has the or 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:04.959 not doesn't need to be around here? What American animal 0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:08.160 that people would be familiar with in your who in 0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:10.680 your mind, has the greatest vocabulary. 0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:18.400 Land critters, you know, probably the one that's been studied 0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:24.080 that way most. And that's probably because it's only because 0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:26.360 that's the one that's been studied that I detail is 0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:32.000 prairie dogs. They have an incredible vocabulary that goes down 0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:35.040 to the level of there's a guy walking through the 0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:39.920 colony with a green shirt on and he's tall. No, yep, 0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:45.440 he's walking fast, he's walking slow. It's another guy. He's 0:32:45.440 --> 0:32:50.120 got a red shirt on or a yellow shirt. There's 0:32:50.160 --> 0:32:56.000 a badger, there's a hawk hawks flying fast, on and 0:32:56.040 --> 0:33:00.000 on and on. Yeah, this guy called what yeah? 0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:00.280 Yeah. 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.600 They went down to the level of saying, you know 0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:06.120 it at a certain level they needed to analyze it 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:09.680 with computers because you just can't hear prairie dog at 0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:12.800 that level. Okay, so they slow it down. You can 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:15.800 see all the bumps and blips in the spectrogram on 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:20.840 the computer, and these differences are parsing out with their 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:24.560 experimental design here. And they even went to the level 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:29.080 of let's put something in there they've never seen. So 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:33.440 what they did is they basically put a cardboard cutout 0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:36.400 or maybe you apply with painted black, put it on 0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.040 wire and strung it through, moved it through, pulled it 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:42.640 through the colony. They came up with a new word, 0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:46.400 something they'd never heard him say before. They put it away. 0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:49.760 Instead of an oval like the first one, they put 0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:53.440 out a square, they say something different. They pull it 0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:56.200 back out a little while later, they use the same 0:33:56.240 --> 0:34:01.080 word for the oval. Same words. Yeah, yeah, And that's probably. 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.880 All like permutations of that what we would just when 0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:05.480 we hear it's just an alarm call. 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:08.960 It's just like like, all right, I'm not getting much 0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:11.880 out of that. But when you start listening with like 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.480 a lot of this stuff, you're like, oh, there is 0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:18.080 a little difference there. And if you could listen with 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:21.960 the ears of a ground squirrel or a pocket gopher 0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:24.799 or any of these things. You might hear it too, 0:34:25.880 --> 0:34:28.759 but some of those they can, like the researchers. It 0:34:28.800 --> 0:34:32.879 was so funny. They were so accurate that they had 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:39.480 different vocalization for dog versus kyote. No really, So they're 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:41.360 sitting there and the researchers can hear this difference and 0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:46.480 they're hanging out and this this prairie dog says, uh, 0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:49.560 there's a kyote coming, and clearly the researchers can see 0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:51.799 it's a dog, and they're like, ha, they messed up 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:55.080 this time. It's like one example, and it gets closer 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:58.520 and it's a kyote. They're like, what the heck. 0:34:59.000 --> 0:34:59.879 Hand and say that to me again. 0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:04.239 So they identified this thing right, it was a coyote. 0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:09.160 They gave the kyote alarm. But the researchers not knowing 0:35:09.200 --> 0:35:13.120 their language real well, well, they knew the language enough 0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:16.040 to say, hey, they're alarming for kyote. Through their eyes 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:17.840 they're seeing what they think is a dog. 0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:20.480 Oh, so the research is like, oh, it's a domestic dogs. 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:22.759 It's a domestic dog. It looks like a kylet. They 0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:26.680 just messed up. And it gets close, they're like, sound 0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:32.200 a gun it's a coyote, So that stuff is actually everywhere, isn't. 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:34.719 But prairie dogs have been the best studied that way. 0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:38.759 Their vocabulary. They even say that they they have these 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:43.279 sound bites that are like phonemes. They're basically like ba 0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:47.520 duh at, you know, sound fragments that we recombine into 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:52.560 making words in sentences, paragraphs. They have sounds that function 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:56.360 the same way, so they can recombine these sounds to 0:35:56.400 --> 0:36:04.879 say dog, kyote, hawk, badger guy, short guy, tall guy 0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:06.760 coming through the colony. 0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:08.960 I was reading this thing long ago. It's like one 0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:14.480 of the dirtiest tricks I've ever heard in science. I 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:16.279 don't know where they were doing it. I don't know where. 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:19.400 Where's the vervet monkey live? A vervet monkey? 0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:21.839 Verbets are African. 0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:27.880 They were looking at the vocabulary of verbant monkeys and 0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:30.880 they were getting this idea that they had and it 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:33.680 might be more nuanced than this, but they're like, there's 0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:38.680 a thing that says threat from above, okay, and maybe 0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:40.600 like certain avian predators. 0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:44.000 And they had a noise that they realized it. 0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:48.640 Meant thread on the ground, and they thought specifically it 0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:49.360 was about leopards. 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:55.080 That's what it was leopards. So they. 0:36:56.400 --> 0:37:02.880 Would record these vervet monkeys making these vocalizations and you 0:37:02.920 --> 0:37:05.839 could play it and get the response. Meaning, if there's 0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:08.160 a threat on the ground, everyone goes into a tree. 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:12.480 If there's a threat from the air, the troop all 0:37:12.520 --> 0:37:19.400 seeks overhead protection. Then they recorded a monkey, they recorded 0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:25.640 his threat call, and they would play it and everyone 0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:29.719 would respond. But they eventually burned the guy out where 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:34.160 he became the boy who cries wolf. Poor guy, and 0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:37.000 they burned him out where they're like, he always does 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:40.759 that and he's wrong, to the point where if he 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:44.920 did vocalize, they would ignore it because they're like, that 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:47.160 dude makes that noise all the time because they have 0:37:47.280 --> 0:37:49.560 been playing it to everybody, and they burned the dude 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:53.680 out on it. Yeah, but this is like, well, you're 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:55.839 talking about way more I mean like way more than 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:57.600 hey on the ground, Hey in the air. 0:37:58.040 --> 0:37:59.560 Yeah, that's like a. 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:03.160 Deer camp with the kids, Like when you and I 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:06.160 walked through the Prairie dog Town. Those things are like eh. 0:38:06.239 --> 0:38:07.839 But when they see Jimmy, they're like. 0:38:07.880 --> 0:38:11.920 Holy kid, they probably. 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:14.000 Do and he's got a gun. He's got a gun 0:38:14.000 --> 0:38:19.160 against that one kid. Yeah, totally yeah, it's so, I 0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:21.279 think you're referring to that chaining safer. I did a 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:23.960 lot of that work in Abaselli National Park where they're 0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:25.800 looking at those vervets. And yeah, they had a different 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:29.200 call for something in the air, those Marshall eagles, I 0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:31.920 think they were. That's different one for leopards, and they 0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:34.320 had a different one for snakes. 0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:35.560 Okay, I remember that now. 0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:40.080 Yeah, and yeah, and there's that's a tuughy with these 0:38:40.120 --> 0:38:44.360 animal vocalizations, like how do you know you don't speak 0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:48.320 that language, So they have these really clunky, sometimes really 0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:53.839 you know, mean ways of figuring out. All right, at 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:57.759 least it's this level, this is what they're meaning. But 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:01.000 in between, like for me, into a ton of ravens. 0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:03.319 I just fascinated by ravens and the stuff they say 0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:06.840 just blows me away. They've got accents, they've got dialects, 0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:09.600 they've got stuff you can't even imagine. 0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:12.279 At what point did you first start getting interested in 0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:15.520 in the just like the vocalizations of animals. 0:39:15.560 --> 0:39:17.400 Well, I grew up like you guys did. I hunted 0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:19.920 and fished and trapped for you know, a lot of 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:22.080 my youth because that was you know, the culture I 0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:25.240 grew up in so I grew up learning call turkeys 0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:30.839 and ducks and gear, and but like it wasn't enough 0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:34.200 for me, just me being me, I was like, I 0:39:34.239 --> 0:39:35.839 want to know more. You know, what are they doing 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:38.200 outside of hunting season? What do they say when this happens? 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:41.799 What are they doing when nobody else is watching? And 0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:46.120 you needn't watch birds like nobody. I didn't know anybody 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:49.680 that watched birds until I went to college and they're like, oh, yeah, 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:50.680 we're going to birding. 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:55.480 Really, you know, mile Man he had an interesting bird taxonomy, 0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:58.120 like as a as a hunter, you now, it was like, 0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:02.680 there's this huge chunk of birds that were tweety birds. Yeah, yeah, 0:40:03.120 --> 0:40:06.520 they meant like the ones like like outside of my 0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:11.000 there's intensely interested in game birds. There's a handful of 0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:13.200 other birds that catch my interest, but then there are 0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:14.600 the tweety birds. 0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.120 Yeah. Yeah. My friend has a system. He has it's 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:24.160 arts and narts for hawks. Arts are a redtail, narts 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:27.040 are not a redtail. Was like Jason not, you know, 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:29.399 it takes redtails to get a couple of years under 0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:32.120 their belt before they get a red tail. He's like, God, damn, 0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:35.000 it throws a whole damn system off. 0:40:36.680 --> 0:40:38.239 I was reading and I think it was in Barry 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:42.200 Lopez's Arctic Dreams where I think it was in that 0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:46.960 book where he's talking about into Its map drawing m 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:50.480 This is early like he was relating for early like 0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:53.040 early contact with certain Into It hunter groups and they 0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.319 would draw maps and they wouldn't do the maps would 0:40:56.320 --> 0:41:02.960 be to the scale of interest. So if they're mapping 0:41:03.000 --> 0:41:06.320 an island and there's a bay where they hunt ducks, 0:41:07.239 --> 0:41:10.200 when you draw the map, the island gets really small 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:13.600 because they don't do it doesn't matter and the bay 0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:16.799 ocky is the map. Yeah, And it's kind of like, 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:21.239 here's the part on something, here's the part of interest, 0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:25.640 and then I'll just kind of rough in something to suggest. 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:26.200 The rest of it. 0:41:27.080 --> 0:41:30.799 Right, And I feel like with a lot of wildlife stuff, 0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:36.640 it's like Elk right, the bugle, you know, because it's 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:41.000 useful in hunting, and you can probably hunt Elko whole life. 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:45.319 And never be like, what really is going on with 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:45.759 that thing? 0:41:48.840 --> 0:41:49.040 Right? 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:52.080 You know, like it works or don't work, but it's 0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:54.600 kind of you You sort of have a like we'll 0:41:54.760 --> 0:41:57.759 map it from a hunter's perspective, will map its vocalization 0:41:57.920 --> 0:42:00.600 pattern and it'll only go as far is what I 0:42:00.760 --> 0:42:06.560 need to know to satisfy my like base plan. 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:09.480 You're not really interested in what you might be saying 0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:11.279 to them, right it works or don't? 0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:15.520 Yeah, yeah right. And that's to human nature, like we're 0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:19.239 we're simplifying machines. That's what our brains are designed for, 0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:23.759 is after sensory stuff like problem solving, figuring out what 0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:26.560 those patterns are. You know, what does that mean? And 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:28.960 I only pay attention to the stuff that affects me, 0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:32.520 you know, But when you start paying attention to what 0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:35.839 affects them, then the world opens up. 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:38.680 What was the first What was the first animal? Was it? Turkey's? 0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:40.279 Like, what was the first animal? You kind of dove 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:42.680 into and started realizing you were finding out things that 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:44.040 maybe other people didn't know. 0:42:44.280 --> 0:42:47.239 Well, I was obsessed with turkeys, like I was like, 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:49.600 my career was going to be making turkey calls, going 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:53.000 around calling contests and all that stop upstate New York. 0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:55.880 And they just recognized that area. So I was taking 0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.600 every spare minute. You could only hunt till noon, but 0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:01.920 I was going out before school every day during the season. 0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:07.640 This is a funny one. The disciplinarian principle. The vice 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.000 principal when my folks were in that school had retired 0:43:11.040 --> 0:43:13.520 by this point, and I called well enough that he's like, 0:43:13.600 --> 0:43:17.759 can you come with me, you know, skip school? Come 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:22.280 with me on Monday and Tuesday. My mom's like, hell no, 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:26.080 Frank Dunhald wants you to skip does vice principal wants 0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:27.960 you to skip school so you can go turkey call 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:28.319 for him? 0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:29.640 Jam up. 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:31.640 I was like, that's a gent right. 0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:32.280 Hello. 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:36.480 Were you mouth calling back like no, no call? Or 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:37.360 were you using calls? 0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:39.719 I was doing it. I was building wingbone calls, I 0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:42.960 was building slate calls, box calls, using my voice. Was 0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:46.600 doing all of it, you know. And but it was 0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:49.560 interesting because sort of like we're talking about in that 0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:52.239 hunting scene, you know, there was a there's a core 0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:55.600 palette of sounds that you use and they do the job. 0:43:56.360 --> 0:43:58.719 But I hit a certain point. It was actually when 0:43:58.719 --> 0:44:01.160 I went to my first calling contests, I'm like, wait 0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:04.439 a minute, this is what the guy there's a guy 0:44:04.480 --> 0:44:07.160 behind that curtain over there, and he's like telling me, 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:09.600 if I sound like a turkey, there's no turkeys in 0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:13.640 this contest. And there's certainly no turkeys behind the curtain saying, yeah, 0:44:13.640 --> 0:44:18.160 that sounds like a turkey, you know. I was like, hmm, 0:44:19.880 --> 0:44:22.520 what you know? And there was even I found an 0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:24.480 article when I was working on the book, this guy 0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:27.319 who is a judge. He said, you know, if you 0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:34.160 hear a lot of really bad calling, you know, it's 0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:37.200 it's a wild turkey. If a lot of really good calling, 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:40.719 it's a guy. You know, turkeys make a lot of mistakes. 0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:45.319 And I'm like, wait a minute, dude, mistakes. I think 0:44:45.360 --> 0:44:49.240 it cost them. It cost them. You make a sound, 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:52.600 the predator's got to beat on you, right, you make 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.400 a sound. It cost energy to make the sound. Like 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:58.160 they're not doing it for no reason. Just because we 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:01.040 don't know the reason doesn't mean it doesn't have one. 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:04.960 But there's the I get the point. There's no no 0:45:05.080 --> 0:45:05.720 like the point. 0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:05.960 Would be this. 0:45:06.120 --> 0:45:08.759 There's there's a there's a YouTube video I love and 0:45:08.800 --> 0:45:12.759 it's a hen, like a wild ass hen in the 0:45:12.800 --> 0:45:15.359 woods and she has the most. 0:45:15.120 --> 0:45:23.520 Raucous bad box call yelp, which. 0:45:23.280 --> 0:45:27.440 She stands there and does twenty seven times in a row, 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:30.319 twenty seven times in a row. 0:45:30.880 --> 0:45:35.920 If you heard that, there's no way he'd be like, 0:45:36.480 --> 0:45:37.120 that's a hen. 0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:39.680 You'd be like, that is some twelve ass year old 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:44.360 kid with his dad's box call and he's just gonna 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:45.719 stand on that ridge and do that. 0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:49.759 Yeah, I would one say that that's what that was. 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:53.440 I'm like some kid up there. It's a hand stander 0:45:53.560 --> 0:45:55.239 twenty seven times in a row. 0:45:55.640 --> 0:45:56.120 Yeah. 0:45:56.160 --> 0:46:00.400 So, but so, like if you could interview her, You're like, 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:03.480 OMETT are you doing this on accident? Is this all 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:04.120 a mistake? 0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:09.840 She would probably tell you no, No, what I'm doing. 0:46:09.640 --> 0:46:13.000 Is I'm You should have seen the last time I 0:46:13.040 --> 0:46:15.720 did this. Yeah, you know what happened. 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:18.360 But like I don't know, like what is she doing? 0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:20.600 You know what is she doing? Yeah? 0:46:20.600 --> 0:46:24.920 How much variability is in there that's acceptable for purpose X? 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:28.319 Like how are you doing a lost call? It does 0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:33.560 go on twenty plus notes, but like within there, how 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:37.160 much stuff's coded in there beyond I'm lost or where 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:39.600 the heck are you? That's where they're find with some 0:46:39.680 --> 0:46:43.000 of these new studies on songbirds and stuff, because they 0:46:43.120 --> 0:46:48.320 hear differently than us. They're hearing into these sounds stuff 0:46:48.360 --> 0:46:51.600 that hey, either happens way too fast or as in 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:56.279 frequency ranges that we don't register real well. So it's 0:46:56.320 --> 0:47:00.000 like it almost seems in some cases, like the side 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:02.600 of the animal and their metabolism, their pace of life 0:47:03.520 --> 0:47:07.680 is coded to their communication. So like there was a 0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:11.480 study where they actually took sperm whale clicks. Let me explain. So, 0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:17.560 like sperm whales, huge animal communicating, these clicks travel real 0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:20.920 well underwater, and somebody had the bright idea. You know, 0:47:20.920 --> 0:47:23.040 they're trying to figure out what the heck these things mean, 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:26.239 you know, whe are the using this in this and 0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:28.879 they've since found out a whole bunch. But somebody had 0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:31.120 the bright idea to go in and delete all the 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:35.560 spaces in between the clicks, and lo and behold, it 0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:39.800 sounds like a songbird. Like you hear all the rising 0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:41.840 and falling of this, you know, and we're used to 0:47:41.880 --> 0:47:46.640 listening to humans birds they're communicating so fast. But maybe 0:47:46.680 --> 0:47:50.319 those smaller animals, their pace of life, their metabolic whatever 0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:54.880 it is that makes them them, they're able to, in essence, 0:47:54.880 --> 0:47:57.480 from our perspective, slow down that sound of the winter 0:47:57.640 --> 0:48:02.640 ren or the magnolia warbler, and here into little tweaks 0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:07.399 of individual notes, let's say, and get more information out 0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:07.640 of that. 0:48:09.920 --> 0:48:12.120 I remember what I was reading somewhere or some guys 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:14.239 saying that, like when you go to like you're gonna 0:48:14.360 --> 0:48:17.400 you see a fly and you're just gonna smack them. 0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:19.520 Do you know what I mean that? 0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:23.560 To the fly he might be like, in a minute, 0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:27.360 I'm gonna move because there's this thing coming toward me. 0:48:28.760 --> 0:48:29.000 You know. 0:48:29.400 --> 0:48:34.840 Like his trip, his like trip through life is just 0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:38.480 the perception is so different than what we think. So 0:48:38.520 --> 0:48:41.200 we think we're going wow, you know, and he's like, no, 0:48:41.520 --> 0:48:52.680 it's going totally is just going ape shit crazy. Yeah, 0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:57.640 like what yeah, something else might be like oh, he's saying, 0:48:57.719 --> 0:48:58.839 oh kinds. 0:48:58.520 --> 0:49:02.600 Of yeah, yeah. It just there's a great essay written 0:49:02.640 --> 0:49:06.080 in the nineteen thirties I think is early forties about 0:49:06.280 --> 0:49:08.280 the title is what It's like to be a bat 0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:12.399 and the clue. You know, even if we could take 0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:15.000 the best ai and all these models and figure out 0:49:15.040 --> 0:49:17.480 their language and speak the same language, we still wouldn't 0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:19.640 have a clue what they're talking about. You know this 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:21.400 when you go to a different country or even if 0:49:21.400 --> 0:49:26.440 they're speaking English, there's culture. There's that culture behind and 0:49:26.560 --> 0:49:29.359 underneath all that language that when you make a joke 0:49:29.400 --> 0:49:32.120 among friends, like everybody knows in that group what the 0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:35.880 hell you're talking about. But even if we could know 0:49:36.000 --> 0:49:39.560 that language for a bat, for a bird, it takes 0:49:39.719 --> 0:49:43.360 being able to hear like a bat. Yeah, breathe like 0:49:43.400 --> 0:49:45.480 a bat. You know, all these things that contribute to 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.680 them being what they are that factors into how they 0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:50.200 interpret what they hear and say. 0:49:50.360 --> 0:49:52.839 Yeah, like we've long, I mean, like forever have known 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:56.360 that there are decibels the animals communicate in that we 0:49:56.440 --> 0:49:58.880 flat out don't hear. So it's like sort of you 0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:01.080 started with that, like one hundred. There's things we don't 0:50:01.080 --> 0:50:04.440 hear that we know we don't hear. There's research about 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:06.959 the way birds proceed. You know, there's so much iridescence 0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:10.799 and birds there's probably something in their eye when they 0:50:10.840 --> 0:50:14.799 see iridescence. It just reads fundamentally different than what we 0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:19.880 see when we see iridescence. They take it in and 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:23.319 the idea that there are like you're saying that when 0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:27.879 you're at a turkey calling contest, what we're going when 0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:30.200 we're saying, man, that sounds a lot like a turkey 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.440 could be tons of gibbers to a turkey. 0:50:34.840 --> 0:50:35.000 Yeah. 0:50:35.080 --> 0:50:39.360 Great, example is like when I do a hen yelp, 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:43.520 I found over years, I wouldn't get the same response 0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:46.279 as if I used a box call or slate and 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:49.480 I the only thing I could come to is that 0:50:50.080 --> 0:50:53.280 it sounded good to me, but there was things in 0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:58.560 my call. Maybe it's missing frequencies or something that made 0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:03.239 it sound plastic or fake ors or something just that 0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:06.440 didn't get the same response. Literally, just go to a 0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:11.600 box call. You know, you got incidentt response, like what's 0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:13.120 up with that? You know? 0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:14.160 Is it? 0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:17.360 You know, certain frequencies like high frequency drops off real fast, 0:51:18.480 --> 0:51:21.520 so over distance, you know, whether it's an elk call 0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:24.319 or what have you. You're generally picking up the low 0:51:24.360 --> 0:51:27.640 frequency sounds that travel better. But when you're right up 0:51:27.680 --> 0:51:30.040 close to something like holy cow, you hear that elk 0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:32.520 bugle right next to the car. If you're in Yellstone 0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:36.080 or something, you're like, whoa, I'm missing a ton of stuff. 0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:37.640 There's a lot more going on here. 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:40.759 What you know, what are they hearing? You know? They 0:51:41.120 --> 0:51:44.000 you know, like a lot of the canines, wolves, coyotes, 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:46.360 they can hear, you know. Dave Meach found that in 0:51:46.520 --> 0:51:51.520 open terrain wolves can you're up to ten miles an 0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:55.040 open train and max I think for me, unless wind 0:51:55.080 --> 0:51:57.759 conditions and other things are going on. The max is 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:01.000 about three miles from me. So this is where often 0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:04.919 with students and stuff, I'm like, look, you can't ever 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:07.960 hear that. You won't ever smell that, not even with 0:52:08.040 --> 0:52:17.040 the nosearranger. Just can't do this. But if you start 0:52:17.080 --> 0:52:22.160 watching these animals closer, you're like, hey, wait, all of 0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:25.799 a sudden, they're starting to gather up their face in 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:32.160 one direction and then they howl hmm instantly. You know, Okay, 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:34.960 I'm looking at half of this story. The other half 0:52:35.000 --> 0:52:37.279 of the book is I've had this happen. You know, 0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:41.319 friends with radios, they're six miles away. Yeah, yeah, we 0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:44.120 got the I got well packed there howling to the east, 0:52:44.239 --> 0:52:47.240 you know, Yeah, I'm watching the druids or they're listening 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:49.879 to the west and they're going back and forth having 0:52:49.880 --> 0:52:54.360 a conversation for hour two hours. We can't hear anything 0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:58.440 but the individuals standing in front of us. There's so 0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:01.360 many animals doing stuff like that that we're like getting 0:53:01.400 --> 0:53:04.120 these fragments thinking that we know what's going on, and 0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:08.759 when they're having conversations over space and in terrain that 0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:10.960 we don't even know are happening. 0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:14.840 You know, we'll move away from Turkey's in a minute. 0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:21.960 But you've obviously been super close to hens like all 0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:23.840 the like, I don't know what. 0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:24.200 I don't know what. 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:26.440 I can't think, Like what distance you become aware of it? 0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:27.680 But they're always making noises. 0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.439 Yeah, those little noises you wouldn't hear from one hundred 0:53:30.520 --> 0:53:32.759 yards away, but in ten yards you can hear it, right, 0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:33.040 you know? 0:53:33.480 --> 0:53:35.560 Yeah, what. 0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:39.680 Let's I'm taking it in the wrong direction. Let's not 0:53:39.719 --> 0:53:42.239 talk about ones people aren't familiar with. Let's just take like, 0:53:42.360 --> 0:53:45.360 let me ask some real simple Do you feel that 0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:46.640 a gobble. 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:49.400 Is just a gobble. 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:53.240 Or do you feel that there are there are different 0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:57.640 gobbles that mean different things. 0:53:57.800 --> 0:54:01.160 Yeah, I think there are different gobbles. And I I 0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:04.360 had thought for years that gobbles just a gobble, and 0:54:04.440 --> 0:54:07.200 a young tom makes not as good a gobble. 0:54:08.440 --> 0:54:10.319 Yeah, that's the idea. Right. He sucks at it. 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:11.919 He just sucks. He hasn't learned how. 0:54:11.800 --> 0:54:14.239 To do it because he aspires them one day be. 0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:21.239 Like exactly just blow your hair back, but in fact 0:54:21.320 --> 0:54:23.920 he's It was in grad school I was talking with 0:54:23.960 --> 0:54:27.520 a friend who's he's really sharp on bird behavior and 0:54:28.360 --> 0:54:32.880 all things, you know, research wise and scientific question answering 0:54:33.040 --> 0:54:37.759 kind of wise, and he turned my mind on it, 0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:41.000 and I thought for years, you know, a young tom, 0:54:41.200 --> 0:54:42.400 you know, full on gobbler. 0:54:43.480 --> 0:54:45.560 It looks like a big, full long and then you 0:54:45.640 --> 0:54:50.000 hear a Jake, you know, it's like it's just chunked 0:54:50.040 --> 0:54:55.200 up and he's He's like, no, you got to understand 0:54:55.239 --> 0:55:01.239 they're gobbling in context to who's around them. And then 0:55:01.280 --> 0:55:04.680 I started noticing, son of a gun, he's right if 0:55:04.680 --> 0:55:08.000 it was just that Jake had many times, or that 0:55:08.120 --> 0:55:12.000 Jake would actually give a full armed gobble because he 0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:14.360 was by himself, he didn't know the big guy was 0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:18.080 over that ridge, and Holland asked over to kick his 0:55:18.160 --> 0:55:21.319 butt mm so he could say whatever he wanted to. 0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:23.080 And of course he wants to sound like the big 0:55:23.080 --> 0:55:25.799 guy on campus, right, And I'm like, son of a gun. 0:55:25.880 --> 0:55:27.520 Then I started seeing in the field and I'm like, 0:55:28.239 --> 0:55:30.400 a gobble isn't a gobble? 0:55:30.440 --> 0:55:32.200 Maybe he's like a subservient gobble. 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:36.640 I'd love to, you know, correct me and add to it. 0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:40.520 If listeners have listened for this kind of stuff more, 0:55:40.520 --> 0:55:42.839 I'd love to learn more about that because that you know, 0:55:42.960 --> 0:55:45.239 my Turkey days are a little further back than some 0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:48.440 other stuff that it's fascinating with Just to think of that. 0:55:48.760 --> 0:55:50.759 If you could read into a gobble and be like, oh, 0:55:50.800 --> 0:55:54.319 that gobble, he's like, I'm coming now that gobble he's like, yeah, 0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:55.040 I heard you all. 0:55:55.200 --> 0:55:57.359 Maybe you get a double gobble, you're like, oh, he's 0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:00.680 really liking that call, you know, triple gobble. You'll he's 0:56:00.680 --> 0:56:01.319 got to be coming. 0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:03.120 Do you think he's loving the call when hears a 0:56:03.160 --> 0:56:03.840 double gobble? 0:56:05.400 --> 0:56:08.920 That always, to me seemed like a good barometer to 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:12.760 how excited they were. Yeah, they gobble off the roost 0:56:12.840 --> 0:56:15.080 and they hit the ground and gobbling and kind of 0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:18.040 gobble along. But once you get them fired up, many 0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:22.759 they're double triple gobbling repeatedly, and you're like, get ridy, 0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:25.200 get ready, get ready, here they're come, you know. 0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:27.200 So hey. 0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:30.040 You know, if you look at it, the more I 0:56:30.080 --> 0:56:33.040 started looking at it from the turkey's perspective, the more 0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:36.120 I started understanding from my human perspective. 0:56:37.760 --> 0:56:40.759 Uh, you say, you think about do you spend more 0:56:40.800 --> 0:56:42.160 time on crows around ravens? 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:44.839 We just have more ravens around home, so I spend 0:56:44.880 --> 0:56:46.239 more time listening to them. 0:56:46.560 --> 0:56:48.919 Okay, the other day, it wasn't too long ago. 0:56:49.000 --> 0:56:52.000 I was watching one and he just seems to be like, 0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:54.800 from my perspective, he seems to be just wasting energy. 0:56:55.360 --> 0:57:01.880 He's flying along, just raising hell, just making racket. 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:06.439 Yeah right yeah, at a high way out mm hmm. 0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:09.160 And I'm like, he's not with anybody, he's just like 0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:13.600 making racket. Like, give me some insight into what like 0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:17.560 what they're capable of conveying. Sure, yeah, and there's got 0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:19.680 to be something like I found something to eat, like 0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:20.560 that's pretty clear. 0:57:20.760 --> 0:57:23.240 Yeah, there's stuff that it'll blow your doors off. And 0:57:23.280 --> 0:57:26.280 I you know, I've only scratched the surface. I've found 0:57:26.640 --> 0:57:31.480 stuff that researchers haven't found. I've corroborated for myself things 0:57:31.520 --> 0:57:34.439 that they've found that yeah, that that holds here too. 0:57:36.320 --> 0:57:39.920 And it's to me, it's always about starting into these conversations, 0:57:39.960 --> 0:57:43.000 listening to what's most common. You pick the most common 0:57:43.040 --> 0:57:45.120 thing close to you, and pick the most common thing. 0:57:45.120 --> 0:57:49.280 It says, Okay, so it's like I only have pigeons around, great, awesome, 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:52.360 use pigeons because the lessons you learn through the pigeons 0:57:52.480 --> 0:57:56.600 actually are going to apply to the red squirrel, the raven, 0:57:57.360 --> 0:57:59.440 the coyote, all those kind of other things because you 0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:01.680 start sensing ties in your own nervous system to it. 0:58:02.320 --> 0:58:04.480 And so when we were living in the park, I 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:07.320 purposely i'd finished my graduate work. I was like done 0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:10.760 with academia. I did not want to read another scientific paper, 0:58:11.040 --> 0:58:14.160 and in that case, I just wanted the ravens to 0:58:14.240 --> 0:58:18.280 teach me. It took longer, but I learned a lot 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:22.120 more So. The most common thing they were saying was. 0:58:25.400 --> 0:58:29.560 Yep. They like saying that. Yeah, like on a lit. 0:58:33.560 --> 0:58:36.280 It took me the longest time to realize the ones 0:58:36.320 --> 0:58:38.960 that were doing that were the ones that were right 0:58:39.040 --> 0:58:43.520 next to our cabin, and it was two. It was 0:58:43.560 --> 0:58:47.160 the resident pair. I'm like, oh, this is their song. 0:58:48.680 --> 0:58:51.840 This is their territorial call that they used to keep 0:58:51.840 --> 0:58:54.840 the riff raff out. Their largest songbird in the world, 0:58:55.200 --> 0:58:58.480 even though it's not melodic, that's their no trespassing sign. 0:58:59.760 --> 0:59:02.600 The largest songbird in the world. 0:59:01.320 --> 0:59:05.600 Yep, common ravens. And so I was like. 0:59:05.840 --> 0:59:10.280 The least melodic, you're the largest songbird. 0:59:10.680 --> 0:59:13.400 But the people you could like so that that that's 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:15.520 funny because I ever thought about that classification. 0:59:15.640 --> 0:59:17.160 They'd be classified as a songbird. 0:59:17.560 --> 0:59:20.600 They are, OK, Yeah, they're in the passerine order, which 0:59:20.640 --> 0:59:23.800 is the all the perching birds corvidaet family, you know, 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:29.720 which is Jay's crows, Jackdaws, Magpies stuff. But that that 0:59:29.800 --> 0:59:31.880 gave me a hook. I was like, okay, I I 0:59:31.920 --> 0:59:33.840 think I know what that three note thing is now 0:59:34.400 --> 0:59:36.920 and then the key and I always stress this. The 0:59:36.920 --> 0:59:41.760 folks is start listening for where it varies. So there's 0:59:41.760 --> 0:59:43.120 one day I was out and you know, the ravens 0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:44.280 are out there to. 0:59:44.320 --> 0:59:46.800 Hit me with the hymn, sitting on a post, being like, 0:59:47.080 --> 0:59:48.120 this is where I hang out. 0:59:48.120 --> 0:59:48.680 This is my song. 0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:49.640 Yeah, this is my turf. 0:59:50.600 --> 0:59:57.240 Give me the noise, okay. 0:59:55.280 --> 0:59:57.880 Right, And in this kind of group, you know, your 0:59:57.960 --> 1:00:02.360 listeners like making animals is cool, like in pop culture, 1:00:02.440 --> 1:00:04.800 Like you meet somebody at the dinner party and they're 1:00:04.800 --> 1:00:06.800 speaking to one person in Korean and one person in 1:00:06.840 --> 1:00:09.640 Italian and another person in French, and you're like, dude, 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:12.480 who is this guy? You know, we see that as sophistication. 1:00:12.640 --> 1:00:14.600 You know, it's like he must have all this you know, 1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:18.960 worldly experience. But you make an animal sound and they're like, like, 1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:21.360 you know, so I always trying to prematice. I'm like, no, 1:00:21.840 --> 1:00:26.400 that betrays our bias against animals as stupid and under us. 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:29.720 You need to start seeing them as those creatures that 1:00:29.760 --> 1:00:32.560 look into the ultraviolet, as those creatures that hear in 1:00:32.560 --> 1:00:36.520 an ultrasonic and subsonic sounds, and those creatures that smell 1:00:36.560 --> 1:00:40.640 it parts per trillion, like they best us in so 1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:45.800 many ways. So listen from that perspective when I make 1:00:45.880 --> 1:00:51.280 animal noises, because it's a crowd pleaser, but the value 1:00:51.320 --> 1:00:55.520 in there is starting to get people to listen beyond okay, 1:00:55.520 --> 1:01:05.000 that common call just counting. There's more notes and it's faster, 1:01:05.560 --> 1:01:09.120 and I discovered that's a simple thing alone. Was happening 1:01:09.480 --> 1:01:12.320 when the tourists pulled out on the pullout in the 1:01:12.400 --> 1:01:15.520 road right below the corral fence and popped out the 1:01:15.520 --> 1:01:20.000 bag of Cheetos, like they see food, they know it's 1:01:20.040 --> 1:01:23.640 in their territory. I'm gonna get it if anybody is, 1:01:23.960 --> 1:01:26.160 and you sure as hell better not come in here 1:01:26.160 --> 1:01:28.160 and think you're gonna steal it from me. So like 1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:31.960 that extra energy and repeated notes was almost like a 1:01:32.080 --> 1:01:36.600 more emphatic mine, mind, mind, mind, mind mine, hmmm. Right. 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:39.480 You know, you know we'd walk into an area, you know, 1:01:39.560 --> 1:01:41.480 as a group to go sit down and listen and 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:44.920 watch and just us being there, those ravens would jump 1:01:45.000 --> 1:01:52.200 off their perches and start flying over doing that, like. 1:01:52.240 --> 1:01:53.360 But they're not talking to you. 1:01:53.400 --> 1:01:56.160 They're talking to other ravens, Like, whatever's going on here 1:01:56.200 --> 1:01:57.120 is in our turf. 1:01:57.120 --> 1:01:57.720 We're on it. 1:01:58.440 --> 1:02:01.080 If food, that's that's what it seems like. 1:02:01.080 --> 1:02:01.840 I got a question for. 1:02:02.040 --> 1:02:04.720 So that was a situation where there's people involved and 1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:08.720 they recognize that that's potential food source. Would you hear that? 1:02:08.960 --> 1:02:11.640 Did you ever hear that same noise like when they 1:02:11.640 --> 1:02:13.520 were like out in the back country when there was 1:02:13.560 --> 1:02:14.560 a carcass around? 1:02:15.440 --> 1:02:18.120 That's an awesome question, Brodie, because that I've seen that, 1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:22.280 so it's corroborating. Mind Like, the one I think of 1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:25.800 most is there was a spot in Slew Creek Big Flats. 1:02:25.800 --> 1:02:28.280 This bison had died, had been dead for a long time, 1:02:28.560 --> 1:02:32.680 pretty much eaten up, but the resident ravens every time 1:02:32.680 --> 1:02:35.760 another raven came within like half a mile, they were 1:02:35.880 --> 1:02:39.680 up in the ka count and if not flying over 1:02:39.800 --> 1:02:43.040 toward them to perch and you give them another cussing 1:02:43.880 --> 1:02:48.920 from within the turf. So it's both, Yeah. 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:52.520 What is they like? What are they doing vocally around? 1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:55.000 Like we know all these sounds, Like to go back 1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:57.560 turkeys for a minute, We know all these sounds that 1:02:57.640 --> 1:03:00.080 in our human understanding, we've kind of got it like 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:05.160 these are sounds of courtship. Okay, the same way we 1:03:05.240 --> 1:03:06.600 might look at it, elk, But you can be like, 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:12.840 that's a sound of courtship. What like when you hear 1:03:12.880 --> 1:03:15.480 a raven, you're just hearing raven noise. You don't understand 1:03:16.080 --> 1:03:19.480 what is a What are they doing in the breeding season? 1:03:19.560 --> 1:03:21.720 Like what kind of things does a raven want to 1:03:21.720 --> 1:03:25.640 communicate in the breathing season? What would be the equivalent 1:03:25.800 --> 1:03:28.120 of how we at least how we perceive to be 1:03:28.440 --> 1:03:31.360 a gobbler going through the woods, goblin, you know, trying 1:03:31.400 --> 1:03:32.240 to draw hens in. 1:03:33.160 --> 1:03:35.560 Yeah, I think it's it's different for raisins because they're 1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:39.720 just socially different. You know, Turkeys are flock creatures. You know, 1:03:39.960 --> 1:03:41.760 toms are hanging out together, but the hens and the 1:03:41.800 --> 1:03:44.480 poults are hanging out together. They mix and mingle in places. 1:03:44.920 --> 1:03:48.960 Ravens are very much territorial with you know, kind of 1:03:48.960 --> 1:03:53.000 a slew of travelers and non residents filtering in and 1:03:53.040 --> 1:03:56.880 around through there. Except times when somebody kills a bison 1:03:57.240 --> 1:04:00.200 got our way or an elk and those big foods 1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:03.400 has become big attractions. We know now from the research 1:04:03.440 --> 1:04:05.720 in the park that some of these birds are coming 1:04:05.760 --> 1:04:10.280 from Bozeman, flying to my house and gardener and Yellstone 1:04:10.440 --> 1:04:14.400 over carcas to feed on carcasses during the bison cause the. 1:04:14.400 --> 1:04:16.800 Word spreads down the valley somehow. 1:04:17.120 --> 1:04:20.840 Yes, that's wild you know what, man, you know what? Like, 1:04:22.760 --> 1:04:27.000 we were hunting the area with my kids. We were 1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:29.280 hunting area this year where like there's a lot there's 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:35.000 a big cow elk harvest in a certain area pretty annually. 1:04:35.840 --> 1:04:39.120 I was even coming to my kids like I'm like, 1:04:39.240 --> 1:04:43.080 these things know what goes on here, and they're like 1:04:43.240 --> 1:04:45.280 in town for it. I didn't know they were in 1:04:45.320 --> 1:04:47.160 town from far away. I meant I thought they were 1:04:47.160 --> 1:04:49.400 in town from the other side of the valley or something. 1:04:49.560 --> 1:04:52.240 That's what I used to think. No way in hell. 1:04:52.560 --> 1:04:57.080 These suckers are traveling twenty to thirty miles in the morning. 1:04:57.960 --> 1:04:59.760 So you think of a Yellstone bird, You're like, oh, 1:04:59.760 --> 1:05:01.680 that's wilderness bird. They just hang out in the park. 1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:04.320 Now they come up, they're either feeding at the dumping 1:05:04.400 --> 1:05:09.560 gardener or West Yellstone or out Cody flying back at midday. 1:05:09.640 --> 1:05:13.200 They're commuting, literally commuting in the morning off the food source, 1:05:13.400 --> 1:05:15.480 flying back in the day to maintain their terror. 1:05:15.320 --> 1:05:16.640 Potentially thirty miles away. 1:05:16.800 --> 1:05:19.800 Yeah, and that's daily, you know, saying. 1:05:19.560 --> 1:05:22.280 No, they somewhere have their own place they would regard 1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:24.680 as their hangout, their house as territory. 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:28.280 So to get back to that, the call that I 1:05:28.440 --> 1:05:37.439 learned next in sequence with Ravens was this, And before 1:05:37.480 --> 1:05:40.080 I even saw them, I knew that they were moving, right. 1:05:40.880 --> 1:05:44.360 That's the sound they make when somebody's violated the no 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:48.920 fly zone in their turf. So they have to be 1:05:49.000 --> 1:05:53.080 back there on their territory to hold that space for them. 1:05:53.520 --> 1:05:56.560 So when the tour season rolls back around and everybody's 1:05:56.560 --> 1:06:00.720 got frozen pizza and baloney sandwiches, they don't have to 1:06:00.760 --> 1:06:04.280 do any fighting in border control. They're good to go 1:06:04.360 --> 1:06:07.720 because everybody knows that's their turf. But we're to close 1:06:07.760 --> 1:06:09.880 the loop on the mating season stuff. Like I think 1:06:09.920 --> 1:06:14.320 a lot of these big food source locations end up 1:06:14.360 --> 1:06:19.360 being like the bar the dating scene for Ravens, and 1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:22.400 so you will see them displaying. They aren't vocalizing as 1:06:22.520 --> 1:06:25.560 much that we can hear if you're close and you 1:06:25.640 --> 1:06:27.600 hang out at the dump for the ravens like I 1:06:27.680 --> 1:06:31.000 do sometimes and not for the trash, you hear all 1:06:31.040 --> 1:06:35.080 these crazy soft sounds that probably I don't know if 1:06:35.080 --> 1:06:36.320 we'll ever figure out what they mean. 1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:37.440 You know, like. 1:06:39.920 --> 1:06:42.160 You know, you probably heard those like a water drop 1:06:42.240 --> 1:06:45.360 and stuff, and they use them in context of getting 1:06:45.960 --> 1:06:48.240 know each other. And you can tell at times when 1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:51.000 they display they're not fanning like a turkey, but they'll 1:06:51.000 --> 1:06:53.520 puff their throat, they'll hold their beak up. You've probably 1:06:53.520 --> 1:06:55.920 seen them, especially around a like a gut pile or 1:06:55.960 --> 1:07:00.600 something where the birds converge. Look real close. Because in 1:07:01.120 --> 1:07:03.400 a general sense, when you see those birds that kind 1:07:03.400 --> 1:07:05.480 of drop their wings a little bit, they're proffing up, 1:07:05.480 --> 1:07:08.760 they drop their flank feathers, those are your residant birds. 1:07:09.440 --> 1:07:12.640 Those are the territorial ones who own that space, so 1:07:12.720 --> 1:07:16.880 to speak. The others are interlopers, and they'll be trying 1:07:16.880 --> 1:07:19.760 to run them off. In fact, when I did start 1:07:19.800 --> 1:07:23.640 reading back into the literature on ravens, it confirmed what 1:07:23.760 --> 1:07:28.240 I had seen in Yellowstone where what bren Heinrich, one 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:31.080 of the world's leading authorities on ravens, had found near 1:07:31.080 --> 1:07:35.800 his cabin in Maine. Was this dead moose. One dead moose, 1:07:36.480 --> 1:07:41.400 and one raven finds it, it lands and gives this call, 1:07:44.040 --> 1:07:47.280 and ravens come out of the woodwork and start feeding 1:07:47.320 --> 1:07:51.560 on it with it. And he's like, that makes no sense, right, 1:07:52.560 --> 1:07:56.000 You like, make a beautiful barbecue dinner for you and 1:07:56.080 --> 1:07:57.880 your family, and before you eat, you have the high 1:07:57.920 --> 1:08:01.880 school football team come over and dine first, like biologically 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:06.680 behaviorally like that didn't make sense until he started studying 1:08:06.760 --> 1:08:09.840 him and marking them, And what he figured out was 1:08:09.880 --> 1:08:14.520 the ones doing that were younger ones and non territorial birds. 1:08:15.160 --> 1:08:17.920 And that call, which is a great way if you 1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:20.360 ever injure an animal, or you've got a downed animal 1:08:20.400 --> 1:08:22.640 and train you can't track him on, you got to 1:08:22.680 --> 1:08:28.200 listen to the ravens. Because that call doesn't mean food 1:08:28.360 --> 1:08:32.679 in a generic sense any food. It means meat really, 1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:39.760 So that bird is calling out to avoid being persecuted 1:08:39.760 --> 1:08:43.320 by the residents who own that turf. So if that 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:45.360 bird who found the moose was caught by the residents, 1:08:45.400 --> 1:08:47.040 it'd be run out and it wouldn't get any food. 1:08:47.200 --> 1:08:52.439 But by going it brings in an overwhelming number of 1:08:52.479 --> 1:08:55.200 other ravens, and everybody ends up getting some. 1:08:56.920 --> 1:08:59.280 That I can think of an analog that a friend 1:08:59.280 --> 1:09:04.960 of mine was accidentally trespassing and found a mammoth jaw, 1:09:08.320 --> 1:09:13.640 so he had to go over and say, sir, I 1:09:13.720 --> 1:09:15.200 was accidentally trespassing on. 1:09:17.439 --> 1:09:21.800 And lo and behold up on a mammoth jaw. What 1:09:21.840 --> 1:09:22.720 are we gonna do about this? 1:09:23.280 --> 1:09:25.320 And that bunny called in all his buddies is standing 1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:27.320 around him to make sure he got the right answer. 1:09:27.840 --> 1:09:32.120 Because he's like, he's like that raven. He's like, dude, like, 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:37.240 I know, I'm on your place. It's a big elk you. 1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:39.639 I just would like to know what happens with the 1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:41.960 thing and just try to be part of this, you know, 1:09:42.520 --> 1:09:44.559 admitting that I'm on you. 1:09:46.680 --> 1:09:48.519 And what I'm gonna do is calling a bunch of 1:09:48.520 --> 1:09:51.479 my buddies to help me pack it out there? 1:09:51.479 --> 1:09:56.960 You go, no way? Yeah, hit me with the meat 1:09:57.000 --> 1:09:57.519 call again. 1:09:58.760 --> 1:10:02.040 So let me qualify. It sounds very similar to what 1:10:02.160 --> 1:10:05.760 young birds do when they're still on the nest and 1:10:05.800 --> 1:10:09.160 they're fledging. So if you've ever had a raven or 1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:11.840 a crow nest near your place, they never you know, 1:10:11.880 --> 1:10:14.640 they never shut up, like they just talk, and a 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:20.759 lot of that is which just grates on your nerves, 1:10:20.760 --> 1:10:23.120 and it's supposed to because in essence, what they're saying. 1:10:22.920 --> 1:10:29.960 Is mom, Mom. 1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:31.760 Hey mom. Right. So, if you see an adult bird, 1:10:31.760 --> 1:10:34.559 and the way you tell on a lot of birds, 1:10:35.160 --> 1:10:38.320 and certainly for corvids, is if you see them, call, 1:10:39.439 --> 1:10:43.679 pick up your binox and look in their mouth. If 1:10:43.680 --> 1:10:46.120 the lining of the mouth is black, it's an adult. 1:10:46.200 --> 1:10:49.120 It's three years or older. We can't agent beyond that. 1:10:49.160 --> 1:10:52.160 We just know that after about two years, the mouth 1:10:52.200 --> 1:10:56.120 lining is all black. If it's a red pink, it's 1:10:56.160 --> 1:10:59.920 a juvenile. So if you hear a juvenile going on 1:11:00.240 --> 1:11:04.400 like that in August or September, you're like, eh, stupid kids, 1:11:04.800 --> 1:11:07.200 I'm trying to get the parents to still feed them. 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:11.040 But if it's a black mouthed adult doing that, you 1:11:11.080 --> 1:11:13.680 want to start looking. You want to start looking for 1:11:13.720 --> 1:11:15.639 the magpies going in and out. You want to see 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:17.840 there it seeing if that there's a coyote coming over 1:11:17.880 --> 1:11:20.439 the hell Oh you know, it's just the corroborating evidence 1:11:20.479 --> 1:11:23.240 that there's something there that you're missing. That the eyes 1:11:23.280 --> 1:11:24.280 in the sky picked. 1:11:24.080 --> 1:11:27.880 Up and do the noise again, and you don't have. 1:11:27.920 --> 1:11:30.120 To hear it once like I've had guide friends They're like, Hey, 1:11:30.160 --> 1:11:32.320 there's a new bison in the Lamar Valley in Yellowstone. 1:11:33.560 --> 1:11:33.880 That's it. 1:11:33.920 --> 1:11:36.080 I don't tell me anymore. I'll go in the park 1:11:36.120 --> 1:11:38.840 and i'll hang out. I'll go to a real good viewpoint, 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:43.320 prominent point, and I'll close my eyes and I'll listen 1:11:43.360 --> 1:11:45.719 for the first time I hear that call. And often, 1:11:45.760 --> 1:11:48.920 because we often bias our other senses, sometimes I'll point 1:11:49.960 --> 1:11:51.559 in the direction I think it is and then I'll 1:11:51.560 --> 1:11:54.760 open my eyes and there it is, almost without fail. 1:11:55.640 --> 1:11:57.080 Because he's making that racket. 1:11:57.160 --> 1:12:00.360 He's making that racket because it found the food, and 1:12:00.400 --> 1:12:02.920 it's calling in buddies to make sure the residents don't 1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:06.840 run them out. You can, that's one of the best 1:12:06.840 --> 1:12:08.000 ways to find that there. 1:12:08.200 --> 1:12:10.400 Also, what he I got mixed up bout what he's 1:12:10.439 --> 1:12:15.519 saying or what you're he's being like, if I go 1:12:15.640 --> 1:12:21.040 down by myself, I'm gonna get her ass and run off. 1:12:21.280 --> 1:12:25.320 Yeah, So he's basically calling in reinforcements. 1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:28.320 So the thing going and feed and they're not and 1:12:28.320 --> 1:12:30.519 they got enough people there where it's not going to be. 1:12:30.640 --> 1:12:34.000 Yeah, it's like a smoke screen, feathered smoke screen to 1:12:34.200 --> 1:12:36.519 give them the opportunity to sneak in there without getting 1:12:36.680 --> 1:12:39.599 beat up. And you'll hear it too, Like, there's an 1:12:39.720 --> 1:12:43.600 awesome reference. Do you ever read any of Richard Nelson's 1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:47.280 ethnography work from Alaska? In Prayers to Raven there's a 1:12:47.320 --> 1:12:50.080 passage on there book it's awesome and there's like a 1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:53.720 one sentence description in there that I just like, I 1:12:54.000 --> 1:12:56.320 just want to know what he's talking about. There he said, 1:12:56.320 --> 1:12:59.479 when the native hunters quitchen find a fresh bear track 1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:05.000 in the snow, they hide and they make the calls 1:13:05.040 --> 1:13:09.200 of a raven to draw the bearon. And I'm like, oh, really, 1:13:09.360 --> 1:13:12.200 what is that all like? And then he just keeps going. 1:13:12.240 --> 1:13:16.360 I'm like, no, you know, come back that. There's two possibilities. 1:13:16.720 --> 1:13:22.560 One is that non territorial bird saying right, that's possible. 1:13:22.960 --> 1:13:25.960 The other one, which I think is probably more likely, 1:13:26.640 --> 1:13:30.200 is the squabbling calls you hear when ravens are on 1:13:30.240 --> 1:13:32.160 the ground at a carcass fight. 1:13:32.280 --> 1:13:34.360 Oh, and they're all duking it out, duking. 1:13:34.080 --> 1:13:40.920 It out, tolding you that like, we got a good 1:13:40.960 --> 1:13:41.760 deal here. 1:13:41.800 --> 1:13:43.880 Interesting, man, you'd go and get a bunch of guys 1:13:43.920 --> 1:13:45.600 that could do that and start making that noise and 1:13:45.640 --> 1:13:46.559 see what shows up. 1:13:47.520 --> 1:13:49.479 Yeah, I don't know how effective it was, but it's 1:13:49.560 --> 1:13:51.920 effective enough apparently in their culture that they're that's a 1:13:52.000 --> 1:13:52.439 known thing. 1:13:52.600 --> 1:13:55.120 One of my favorite things, and make make prayers of 1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:56.920 the raven One of my favorite things that he learned 1:13:56.960 --> 1:13:58.800 from those guys he's hanging out with, is you know 1:13:58.800 --> 1:13:59.360 they'd like to. 1:13:59.320 --> 1:13:59.960 Then dig bear. 1:14:00.520 --> 1:14:04.880 Yeah, and their take is like, man, anybody can you know, 1:14:04.880 --> 1:14:06.639 because we look at that like, you know, most people 1:14:06.680 --> 1:14:09.280 look at that like a cowardly act, you know, unsportsmanlike. 1:14:10.160 --> 1:14:12.120 Their take is like, man, anybody can shoot a bear 1:14:12.200 --> 1:14:16.120 walking around, Go climb in there and drag. 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:18.960 Them right right, And the old days they're doing it 1:14:19.000 --> 1:14:22.200 with a lance. Yeah, they let the bear charge them. 1:14:22.320 --> 1:14:24.439 You know, go climb in there and drag them out, 1:14:24.439 --> 1:14:25.880 and tell me about how easy it is. 1:14:26.439 --> 1:14:30.360 Yeah, Woosy, that's. 1:14:30.280 --> 1:14:30.679 A good book. 1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:33.280 Yeah, he spends a lot of time on I mean 1:14:33.280 --> 1:14:38.160 obviously that that thing of like the significance of that bird, 1:14:38.400 --> 1:14:41.120 which is probably in some way motivated by it's just 1:14:41.120 --> 1:14:42.160 incredible intelligence. 1:14:42.160 --> 1:14:44.920 And I could totally see like people will often ask 1:14:45.040 --> 1:14:47.400 questions of like, you know the wolves around, you know, 1:14:47.439 --> 1:14:50.599 are they leading wolves to kills? And so far as 1:14:50.600 --> 1:14:53.000 we can see. No, Like there might be one or 1:14:53.040 --> 1:14:55.760 two instances in the last thirty years where somebody can 1:14:55.800 --> 1:14:59.639 say I'm pretty sure the ravens were maybe goaded those 1:15:00.120 --> 1:15:04.520 wolves over a friend of mine was watching a brown. 1:15:04.720 --> 1:15:06.120 Tap into the carcass or something. 1:15:06.120 --> 1:15:09.439 But yeah, or you know, here's a weak animal. There's 1:15:09.479 --> 1:15:13.400 a carcass right here. You know it's more there just 1:15:13.439 --> 1:15:16.000 like parasites to the wolves. They're just taking advantage of 1:15:16.040 --> 1:15:18.280 the wolves killed. I've seen times where wolves will be 1:15:18.280 --> 1:15:21.200 feeding on the back end of an old wear out 1:15:21.280 --> 1:15:23.479 bull elk, and the ravens are literally an antlers like 1:15:23.520 --> 1:15:26.559 waiting their turn. Come on, man, give us, give us 1:15:26.600 --> 1:15:27.919 a little space about it. 1:15:27.960 --> 1:15:30.519 But you don't see that there's like a legitimate like hey, 1:15:30.560 --> 1:15:32.679 come quick, this thing's will no no. 1:15:32.840 --> 1:15:37.320 But like the northern cultures all over the globe were like, yeah, 1:15:37.320 --> 1:15:40.280 that's how we find the caribou. And I think a 1:15:40.320 --> 1:15:47.719 lot of those signals are as much behavioral, Like, for instance, 1:15:47.760 --> 1:15:49.639 because we live on the edge of the National Forest 1:15:49.720 --> 1:15:52.679 right north of the park, there's a lot of hunting 1:15:52.720 --> 1:15:54.479 that goes on, and I can go out for a 1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:57.800 walk with a dog and I'm like, uh, somebody killed 1:15:57.800 --> 1:16:02.120 something over by the travertine two miles away, just by 1:16:02.120 --> 1:16:07.400 the continual unidirectional flight of every single raven going that way. 1:16:07.640 --> 1:16:09.799 So I think a lot of those early cultures probably 1:16:09.840 --> 1:16:11.760 were not just picking up on sound, but they were 1:16:11.800 --> 1:16:17.000 picking up on directional flight, flight altitude. If you see 1:16:17.000 --> 1:16:20.120 arab back, you know, acrobatics in the air, they probably 1:16:20.320 --> 1:16:23.840 you're close. There's a certain I don't know number of 1:16:23.960 --> 1:16:27.400 hundreds of yards, hundreds of meters that you'll see ravens 1:16:27.800 --> 1:16:29.880 chasing each other trying to get food away from each other, 1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:31.960 and you know, like so you know you see that, 1:16:32.040 --> 1:16:34.479 you're like, oh, we're within a couple hundred yards of 1:16:35.040 --> 1:16:35.920 that food source. 1:16:36.160 --> 1:16:42.320 I was in Tanzania this summer. In the trackers use 1:16:43.400 --> 1:16:44.639 what oxpeckers do. 1:16:44.640 --> 1:16:45.240 In the morning. 1:16:45.680 --> 1:16:48.840 It's it's like it's diagnostic. I mean they don't look 1:16:48.840 --> 1:16:53.640 at like, oh, maybe maybe there's something over there that 1:16:53.640 --> 1:16:57.120 it's going to. Yeah, they're like he's up in the morning, 1:16:57.840 --> 1:16:59.840 when he flies out, he already knows. 1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:03.719 Yeah, he knows where they're at the buffalo. 1:17:04.040 --> 1:17:07.280 Yeah, like he knows where they are because he was 1:17:07.320 --> 1:17:10.360 with them before or whatever, and he's going there. Yeah, 1:17:10.800 --> 1:17:12.880 you know, and so yeah, in that way, and those 1:17:12.920 --> 1:17:16.040 messages they might they might not go there because of 1:17:16.080 --> 1:17:17.040 whatever factors. 1:17:17.360 --> 1:17:19.320 But they're like at daybreak when. 1:17:19.240 --> 1:17:22.800 Six of them go yeah and disappeared down somewhere, like 1:17:24.240 --> 1:17:26.360 that's not for something else. 1:17:26.280 --> 1:17:29.679 And the bugs do that. You know, you probably read 1:17:29.680 --> 1:17:32.840 Boyd Vardi's you know, line Tracker's Guide to Life or 1:17:32.880 --> 1:17:36.439 something like that. One of his mentors was finding found 1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:38.040 a lion kill from watching the. 1:17:37.960 --> 1:17:39.599 Flies No same deal. 1:17:39.680 --> 1:17:41.599 Yeah, you know, I interviewed a guy from the book 1:17:41.600 --> 1:17:43.320 and he didn't It didn't end up making it into 1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:45.519 the final cut, but he and his buddy hunted a 1:17:45.520 --> 1:17:47.960 lot in California, really rocky ground. 1:17:48.160 --> 1:17:48.320 You know. 1:17:48.400 --> 1:17:52.000 The first time it happened, they shot a bucket, ran 1:17:52.040 --> 1:17:54.599 off somewhere, could kind of see, you know, ran out 1:17:54.640 --> 1:17:58.840 of blood, didn't know, just kind of gave up almost 1:17:59.040 --> 1:18:01.759 sitting on this this hill or next to this trail 1:18:01.800 --> 1:18:04.120 and start seeing. He called him meat bees, you know, 1:18:04.960 --> 1:18:07.960 el jackets that you're trying to avoid if you're processing 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:13.160 game from getting stung. Yellow jackets keep going up this trail. 1:18:15.160 --> 1:18:18.679 So he followed him, and he's used that for years 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:23.360 thereafter to find down game God in places he couldn't track. 1:18:23.680 --> 1:18:25.880 You know Tom Petty, Late Tom Patty. 1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:28.000 He once said in one of his songs, he says, 1:18:28.040 --> 1:18:31.720 I can track a single bee to its hive, which 1:18:31.760 --> 1:18:35.640 is like how these define Yeah, staying there, starms and 1:18:35.880 --> 1:18:38.160 standing there way till one goes by, see as far 1:18:38.200 --> 1:18:39.200 as it went, go. 1:18:39.120 --> 1:18:40.680 There, standing there, wait for. 1:18:40.640 --> 1:18:42.439 The nuther one to go by, and you'll find your 1:18:42.439 --> 1:18:45.360 buck like that. Man, Yeah, badass, you can. 1:18:46.120 --> 1:18:50.639 And it's it's all that's to me. And I don't 1:18:50.720 --> 1:18:56.200 hunt anymore. And that's a whole different conversation. But just 1:18:56.320 --> 1:18:59.280 paying attention and trying to see the world through these 1:18:59.320 --> 1:19:02.479 other creatures, you start picking that stuff up a lot more. 1:19:02.880 --> 1:19:05.560 And this is what our ancestors, all of our ancestors 1:19:05.640 --> 1:19:09.240 knew this animal language stuff in far better detail than 1:19:09.280 --> 1:19:11.120 I do. Like a friend of mine's hung out with 1:19:11.120 --> 1:19:15.400 the San people in the Kalahari. They are unfreaking believable 1:19:15.880 --> 1:19:20.200 in interpreting non human communication. And the ones are the best. 1:19:20.479 --> 1:19:24.000 You would think are the hunters. He's like, no, actually 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:27.440 it's the women. The women are out in the bush 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:31.000 digging roots. They've got kids with them, they got old 1:19:31.040 --> 1:19:34.840 people with them, all these people that are very vulnerable. 1:19:34.960 --> 1:19:38.000 If the hyenas or leopard or the lions come through, 1:19:38.280 --> 1:19:41.800 so they are ultra peaked. And he went out with 1:19:41.840 --> 1:19:44.639 them one day and they're digging away and these women's 1:19:44.600 --> 1:19:47.240 are spread out. You're like, dude, that's not safe right 1:19:47.439 --> 1:19:50.400 from our perspective, hundreds of yards between these different women 1:19:50.600 --> 1:19:54.120 with the children, digging roots and things like that. And 1:19:54.760 --> 1:19:57.799 he'd walk up to any of them, We're the closest lions. 1:19:58.120 --> 1:20:03.120 Without even stopping, they point, how far about this far? 1:20:03.800 --> 1:20:05.920 Walk to another one, Hey, where are the closest lions? 1:20:06.360 --> 1:20:09.920 They point, go around and visit multiple women, doing this 1:20:10.640 --> 1:20:15.000 just effortlessly as part of their day. They are absorbing 1:20:15.080 --> 1:20:18.840 this information as they go. And in that particular case, 1:20:18.880 --> 1:20:22.240 they went over a couple hours later in a vehicle. 1:20:22.640 --> 1:20:26.760 There's the fresh lion tracks, got it, and even on 1:20:26.880 --> 1:20:29.960 down really specific stuff, like he told me this story. 1:20:29.840 --> 1:20:35.320 They were in this It was small plot of forest 1:20:35.920 --> 1:20:37.240 and they hang out there in the day because it 1:20:37.240 --> 1:20:40.439 gets really really hot. And they said to them, the 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:43.840 white guys, the tourists, do not leave this patch of forest. 1:20:44.080 --> 1:20:48.400 There's Mama's out here, there's cobras, there's hyenas. The whole 1:20:48.680 --> 1:20:51.519 laundry list, but one of the guys with him. There 1:20:51.560 --> 1:20:54.559 was one of his students in animal language bird language, 1:20:55.680 --> 1:20:57.880 and this student of his comes over. He says, Hey, 1:20:57.880 --> 1:20:59.639 I know we're not supposed to leave, but I'm hearing 1:20:59.640 --> 1:21:02.320 this bird do something that I think might be talking 1:21:02.320 --> 1:21:05.760 about a snake. Can you come listen to it? So 1:21:05.800 --> 1:21:07.120 he goes over there with him at the edge of 1:21:07.120 --> 1:21:09.680 this little patch of trees and he's like, yeah, I 1:21:09.760 --> 1:21:12.400 think you're right, but you know, we're not gonna go 1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:15.000 out there. Let's but let's go get the one white 1:21:15.040 --> 1:21:18.000 guy and he's got a gun. We will check it out. 1:21:18.160 --> 1:21:20.840 So he comes over. The three of them walk out 1:21:21.640 --> 1:21:23.920 and he's like, yeah, I think I think you're right. 1:21:23.960 --> 1:21:25.720 I think it's I think it's a snake. But let's 1:21:25.760 --> 1:21:28.360 go get aasi Quah. You know this this native guy, 1:21:28.400 --> 1:21:33.639 his name literally translates into cobra, he'll know. So Isakulah comes. 1:21:33.640 --> 1:21:36.719 The four of them then walk within I'll say sixty 1:21:36.760 --> 1:21:38.880 eighty yards and he's like, yep, there it is. It's 1:21:38.960 --> 1:21:42.960 a it's a black mamba. Don't go over there. So 1:21:43.160 --> 1:21:46.320 my friend says to his student who were originally found 1:21:46.320 --> 1:21:50.080 this whole deal, he's like, now watch this. They go 1:21:50.200 --> 1:21:53.400 back into the trees and there's like five women sitting 1:21:53.400 --> 1:21:58.759 around making beads with ostrich eggs shells and they're just talking. 1:21:58.840 --> 1:22:01.920 Kids are playing around, people are working on tan and highs, 1:22:01.920 --> 1:22:04.599 just the usual stuff of a community. So they stand 1:22:04.640 --> 1:22:09.280 their patient and finally there's a break in the conversation 1:22:09.520 --> 1:22:11.920 and the translator says, you want to ask the question. 1:22:13.120 --> 1:22:16.240 So my friend says, yeah, do you ladies hear any 1:22:16.520 --> 1:22:19.840 alarms right now? And in unison, all five of them 1:22:19.920 --> 1:22:24.679 point over their shoulder to what is hundreds of yards away, 1:22:24.840 --> 1:22:27.280 says there's a mamba over there. Don't go over there. 1:22:27.680 --> 1:22:29.040 Hmm. 1:22:29.160 --> 1:22:32.880 So not only through their regular routine were they hearing it, 1:22:33.960 --> 1:22:37.400 they also knew exactly what it meant. Have not even 1:22:37.400 --> 1:22:39.639 seen it with all this other noise and stuff going on, 1:22:39.760 --> 1:22:43.120 Like that's the level that not just Native Africans, not 1:22:43.160 --> 1:22:47.320 just Native Amazonians, like our ancestors knew that. And it's 1:22:47.400 --> 1:22:49.840 like so cool that we're discovering it now. It's like, no, 1:22:50.840 --> 1:22:55.080 it's neat, but this is really old and it was 1:22:55.600 --> 1:22:59.559 used because it was so useful. It was retained because 1:22:59.560 --> 1:23:02.479 dinner was on the hoof, and you need to know 1:23:02.520 --> 1:23:04.679 it was in there before you even went in there 1:23:06.240 --> 1:23:09.200 to just limit the chaos that that life brings at you. 1:23:10.320 --> 1:23:12.840 So and for me, it's like I was guiding a ton, 1:23:13.000 --> 1:23:14.840 you know. So like people are paying you to find 1:23:14.880 --> 1:23:21.040 the bear. Well, ha, Well, if there's anybody on a 1:23:21.080 --> 1:23:24.360 carcass that's out there, it's probably gonna be a bear, 1:23:25.080 --> 1:23:27.000 you know. So you got to listen to the raven. 1:23:27.680 --> 1:23:29.360 You got to watch the duck. So I don't I 1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:31.360 want to see a wolf, you know some people I like, 1:23:31.439 --> 1:23:35.759 I don't care. You gotta watch everything here because everything 1:23:35.880 --> 1:23:38.680 has a response and a relationship with everything else. And 1:23:38.720 --> 1:23:40.680 the more you pay attention to that, the more you're 1:23:40.720 --> 1:23:45.280 gonna see all those connections start done, just blossom. And 1:23:45.320 --> 1:23:49.519 what's even more cool is when you see the position 1:23:49.920 --> 1:23:55.000 you yourself hold you're being talked about. They respond to you, 1:23:55.080 --> 1:23:58.080 Steve different than you, Brody different than you can and 1:23:58.560 --> 1:24:01.880 they respond or eating our dogs dog has a different 1:24:01.880 --> 1:24:05.519 bark for the ups guy because he gives them snacks. 1:24:05.560 --> 1:24:08.719 Definitely different bark for the FedEx guy. No snacks there, 1:24:09.600 --> 1:24:12.519 different bark for the neighbor knows that guy pretty well. 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:16.799 Different bark for or behaviors when one of the family 1:24:16.880 --> 1:24:20.519 comes home so we're not in isolation of this, you know, 1:24:20.800 --> 1:24:23.320 as it's seen in the wild world, like we're doing it, 1:24:23.600 --> 1:24:26.360 our pets are doing it. It's just paying attention a 1:24:26.400 --> 1:24:28.559 little bit more so that you start seeing in the 1:24:28.560 --> 1:24:30.679 places that you want to know more. 1:24:30.960 --> 1:24:34.320 Our dog has a greeting for people whose house she 1:24:34.400 --> 1:24:35.400 has stayed at before. 1:24:36.160 --> 1:24:39.599 What is it? Just a level of like swirling around, 1:24:39.720 --> 1:24:41.800 make the wine. You know, it's like rolling over on 1:24:41.840 --> 1:24:46.360 her back. That means she's like been dog sat by them. Yeah. 1:24:46.439 --> 1:24:48.280 Well, the crazy thing is like if you haven't done that, 1:24:48.439 --> 1:24:49.680 she's not gonna do it right. 1:24:50.920 --> 1:24:54.599 It's true. It's so true. And like literally three mornings ago, 1:24:54.640 --> 1:24:56.559 my wife and I are working at the dining room 1:24:56.600 --> 1:24:59.639 table and our dog, We've got a black lab Hobbs. 1:24:59.720 --> 1:25:03.599 Hobb starts going bananas like ape shit. I'm like, what 1:25:03.920 --> 1:25:07.080 he only does that level of craziness for the ups guy, 1:25:07.720 --> 1:25:10.519 or if the neighbor's dog comes in the yard because 1:25:10.560 --> 1:25:13.680 he wants to go play, right, I'm like, what is it? 1:25:13.800 --> 1:25:16.200 He's just like bouncing. It almost looked like a coonhound. 1:25:16.200 --> 1:25:19.040 You know, it's babe, you know, treat to a raccoon 1:25:19.800 --> 1:25:22.000 bouncing on his front feet. Bark and barking, barking, And 1:25:22.080 --> 1:25:24.400 I look out the front door before I let him out, 1:25:24.520 --> 1:25:26.640 and here's a bobcat walking up the stairs from the 1:25:26.640 --> 1:25:29.439 lower yard into the upper yard, twenty feet from the 1:25:29.720 --> 1:25:32.360 from the door, and then just veers off and through 1:25:32.400 --> 1:25:34.200 the yard. You'd see those tracks. You're like, oh, yeah, 1:25:34.200 --> 1:25:36.760 that bobcat came through the night, Like, no, dude, it 1:25:36.800 --> 1:25:39.439 was ten thirty in the morning. We were working and 1:25:39.479 --> 1:25:43.320 we would have missed it had hobs or in other cases, 1:25:43.320 --> 1:25:46.479 we've seen lines in our yard because the magpies told us. 1:25:47.600 --> 1:25:49.560 You know, we had a line with four kittens in 1:25:49.600 --> 1:25:53.040 our yard this spring and they disappeared after a while. 1:25:53.439 --> 1:25:55.360 Didn't think we'd see him again. And we're sitting on 1:25:55.360 --> 1:25:58.479 the porch, my wife and I and Jenny says hear that. 1:25:59.160 --> 1:26:03.720 I'm like, yeah, magpies. Magpies. When they are social and 1:26:03.760 --> 1:26:09.000 just hanging out together, they'll go yeka, can hear it 1:26:09.040 --> 1:26:11.200 in different places they're just checking in. But when it 1:26:11.240 --> 1:26:15.280 goes down ye yah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:26:15.640 --> 1:26:18.960 it's like that's what we heard. And she says there's 1:26:18.960 --> 1:26:22.080 something down there. I'm like, I know, and she no 1:26:22.200 --> 1:26:25.519 more than stands up walks less than the distance from 1:26:25.520 --> 1:26:27.719 here to Brody looks over the railing into the lower 1:26:27.800 --> 1:26:31.800 yard and she says, fucking lion. And because of the 1:26:31.840 --> 1:26:33.679 fore warning, he had enough time running the house, grab 1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:35.960 her camera and got this killer footage of the cat 1:26:36.040 --> 1:26:42.520 walking like thirty feet from the corner of our deckoree 1:26:42.560 --> 1:26:46.519 in the afternoon, when you least expect it. It's like 1:26:46.920 --> 1:26:50.400 when your life is on the line, like a magpie 1:26:50.439 --> 1:26:53.120 who might be whacked by a wild cat, or a 1:26:53.240 --> 1:26:55.760 raven who might get whacked by an eagle, like look 1:26:55.800 --> 1:26:57.880 to those things that their lives depend on most, and 1:26:57.880 --> 1:27:00.840 then you just start seeing this, this whole scene open up. 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:04.519 Is that's why they're talking that way, and you're just 1:27:05.040 --> 1:27:07.240 you're just an eavesdropper listening. I was like, oh, whoa, 1:27:08.040 --> 1:27:12.000 Like ravens have a specific call for golden eagles. Some 1:27:12.080 --> 1:27:16.479 things seem generic, but some things are extremely specific. And 1:27:17.080 --> 1:27:18.960 this one and it can take a while, Like this 1:27:19.000 --> 1:27:21.880 one took me about five years to figure out what 1:27:21.920 --> 1:27:24.160 the heck it meant. I'd heard it. I'm like, WHOA, 1:27:24.200 --> 1:27:29.880 that's different. I can't figure it out. Flying high just 1:27:29.920 --> 1:27:34.120 making noise right, No, No, that's what happens when there's 1:27:34.120 --> 1:27:34.800 a golden eagle? 1:27:35.040 --> 1:27:35.800 What is that noise? 1:27:35.880 --> 1:27:35.960 Like? 1:27:36.400 --> 1:27:40.760 So it's a very consistent, uniform series of notes to 1:27:40.880 --> 1:27:53.080 just go on and and it's it's serious. And I 1:27:53.120 --> 1:27:55.439 was having lunch with a guy who runs the bird 1:27:55.479 --> 1:27:59.680 programs in Yellstone. I'm like, hey, Dave, you did you 1:27:59.680 --> 1:28:00.880 graduate working on golden eagles? 1:28:00.920 --> 1:28:01.040 Right? 1:28:01.360 --> 1:28:05.120 Yeah? Yeah. He's like, you know this raven call. I've 1:28:05.120 --> 1:28:07.120 been hearing this raven call. I'm pretty sure it's just 1:28:07.160 --> 1:28:10.519 for goldens. He's like, oh yeah, that's exactly what we 1:28:10.600 --> 1:28:13.479 listened for to know to get the eagle traps ready 1:28:13.479 --> 1:28:14.280 because one's coming. 1:28:14.680 --> 1:28:20.000 Oh really, why are they tuned into goldens? 1:28:20.439 --> 1:28:21.160 They're killers? 1:28:21.280 --> 1:28:22.920 So goldens will kill them off of those. 1:28:24.680 --> 1:28:28.000 I've only seen it twice myself. It happens more, but 1:28:28.040 --> 1:28:29.000 it's really infrequent. 1:28:29.080 --> 1:28:30.680 But he wants he wants to eat it. 1:28:30.880 --> 1:28:34.559 Oh yeah, they're eating them. It's like a difference between 1:28:34.680 --> 1:28:38.080 a wolf killing a coyote versus a lion. Lion will 1:28:38.120 --> 1:28:44.439 eat you. Wolf just kills you, you know, till the 1:28:44.439 --> 1:28:48.679 their level of response is different. That line is gonna 1:28:48.760 --> 1:28:53.519 hunt you. That wolf is gonna opportunistically kill you because 1:28:53.520 --> 1:28:58.080 you're filching off. It's kill and they know these variations. 1:28:58.080 --> 1:28:59.880 So I asked Dave and Likes to have, you know, 1:29:00.200 --> 1:29:02.920 a variation for bald eagles, because I think I have, 1:29:03.880 --> 1:29:06.320 and he's like, nah, you know, he wasn't doing research 1:29:06.360 --> 1:29:09.040 on them, so he didn't. But on the spectrum of 1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:12.920 raven chasing another raven off versus raven chasing a golden 1:29:12.960 --> 1:29:17.280 eagle off back from that golden eagle, end of the 1:29:17.320 --> 1:29:19.640 spectrum is something that has a few more gaps in it, 1:29:19.720 --> 1:29:23.880 a few more bits of inflection. And it's hard because 1:29:24.320 --> 1:29:28.160 you see the value of indigenous knowledge of a landscape 1:29:28.200 --> 1:29:32.080 because I only get maybe half a dozen of these 1:29:32.439 --> 1:29:36.240 in a lifetime, some of these behaviors and calls. But 1:29:36.320 --> 1:29:39.360 if you've got one hundred other people who listen for 1:29:39.439 --> 1:29:42.439 exactly the same thing for a couple of thousand years, 1:29:42.680 --> 1:29:45.680 and you're telling the stories, yeah, you see why the 1:29:45.680 --> 1:29:48.479 bushmen are so damn good. But I've been able to 1:29:48.479 --> 1:29:50.439 call it on bald a few times. You know, you 1:29:50.479 --> 1:29:57.240 hear and I don't know if you can hear the 1:29:57.280 --> 1:30:01.720 differences in there. It's not that and it's not the 1:30:01.800 --> 1:30:07.479 raven chasing another raven. There's a little more insistence to it. 1:30:07.520 --> 1:30:10.400 There's a little more uniformity, but compared to the Golden Eagle, 1:30:10.600 --> 1:30:14.439 there's still more inflection, there's more spacing in there, and 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:16.920 they're doing those things for a reason. 1:30:17.880 --> 1:30:20.000 It's all this stuff like are you doing all this 1:30:20.800 --> 1:30:24.519 just kind of based on memory and things you're hearing 1:30:24.560 --> 1:30:29.240 repetitively out while you're out are like, are you recording 1:30:29.280 --> 1:30:32.320 it all to like listen to this stuff and get 1:30:32.439 --> 1:30:33.360 nuance out of it? 1:30:33.479 --> 1:30:37.120 Or is it just for years? For twenty plus years, 1:30:37.160 --> 1:30:41.400 it's been me just listening in ways other people haven't 1:30:41.439 --> 1:30:47.080 been and making some connections and missing most right. But 1:30:47.200 --> 1:30:50.439 what's really cool right now is my friend's kind of 1:30:50.439 --> 1:30:53.760 at the center of initiating a bioacoustics project in Yellstone, 1:30:54.160 --> 1:30:58.880 which at the most specific level is wanting to disentangle 1:30:59.000 --> 1:31:02.200 wolf language. You know, can you sense this a wolf 1:31:02.200 --> 1:31:05.080 population in a place like Colorado? Can you keep wolves 1:31:05.120 --> 1:31:08.479 out of a place by playing certain types of howls 1:31:08.680 --> 1:31:11.519 in an area to keep them on of cattle? Right? 1:31:11.800 --> 1:31:14.360 So they're doing more or less the basic research, though 1:31:14.400 --> 1:31:17.760 it's just based you're putting out all these recorders and 1:31:17.840 --> 1:31:21.280 recording twenty four by seven, three hundred and sixty five 1:31:21.320 --> 1:31:24.040 days a year. But you're not just getting wolves. You're 1:31:24.040 --> 1:31:26.240 getting everything. You're getting all the ravens, you're getting all 1:31:26.240 --> 1:31:30.439 the bis in conversation, You're getting everything. And we've got 1:31:30.479 --> 1:31:33.000 one of them in our yard a part of this project. 1:31:33.400 --> 1:31:36.240 So what I have now is a spreadsheet on my 1:31:36.280 --> 1:31:39.760 phone where I see a raven chase a golden eagle over. 1:31:40.160 --> 1:31:42.840 I just make them time and date stamp and a 1:31:42.920 --> 1:31:45.559 note of behavior in my phone. And now I can 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:48.160 actually go back because you're you all have this. If 1:31:48.200 --> 1:31:51.760 you're trying to take a photo of something, you're trying 1:31:51.760 --> 1:31:54.759 to record something, it's over before you're done, especially these things. 1:31:56.080 --> 1:31:59.800 I only have a few data points ever, but this 1:31:59.880 --> 1:32:00.200 is but. 1:32:00.160 --> 1:32:01.240 This is not always running. 1:32:01.320 --> 1:32:03.639 It's always running. So I can now make a note 1:32:03.680 --> 1:32:07.599 and I'm like raven being you know, chased by this 1:32:07.720 --> 1:32:10.120 or raven chasing that I can go back to the 1:32:10.160 --> 1:32:12.080 sound recordings and listen to it over and over and 1:32:12.120 --> 1:32:17.920 it's context totally. That's where this AI stuff is really 1:32:18.000 --> 1:32:22.240 cool on one level with wildlife acoustics and other behaviors, 1:32:22.400 --> 1:32:26.799 but you still need the field time. You still need 1:32:26.840 --> 1:32:29.760 somebody who's died in the wool in the field, and 1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:32.640 that's all they do to interpret that data. Otherwise just 1:32:32.760 --> 1:32:37.240 it's just noise. So that's the part I really enjoy, 1:32:37.320 --> 1:32:41.559 and I like, I'm really wanting to figure out. I 1:32:41.600 --> 1:32:45.120 have a strong suspicion of what the alarm coyotes use 1:32:45.320 --> 1:32:49.439 for when they encounter a cougar. It's different than when 1:32:49.479 --> 1:32:53.280 they find a wolf because they're bad dudes, and they're 1:32:53.320 --> 1:32:56.280 going to tell everybody about it. They want them known 1:32:56.760 --> 1:33:00.160 and they want to avoid them themselves and their families. 1:33:01.600 --> 1:33:06.160 But I've only had four instances where I can verify 1:33:06.360 --> 1:33:10.480 that that coyote through snow tracking or somebody else's observations, 1:33:10.520 --> 1:33:14.679 that kyote was barking at a cougar one data point. 1:33:15.920 --> 1:33:18.880 And I hope this bioacoustics stuff is allow us to 1:33:19.000 --> 1:33:22.000 then go in because like he and I hooked up 1:33:22.439 --> 1:33:25.400 with a high school honors student kid wanted a project 1:33:25.400 --> 1:33:27.559 on wildlife. So we're like, great, we need to train 1:33:27.600 --> 1:33:30.400 the AI model. So we had him go listen to 1:33:30.479 --> 1:33:33.360 a bunch of stuff and accumulate enough howls to say, 1:33:33.680 --> 1:33:35.760 this is a howl. It's not an airplane, This is 1:33:35.800 --> 1:33:37.960 a howl. It's not a truck. This is a howl 1:33:38.000 --> 1:33:40.840 of a wolf, not a coyote, so that then you 1:33:40.840 --> 1:33:43.400 can let the machine listen to a year's worth of 1:33:43.439 --> 1:33:46.559 recordings without you having to sit there for a year 1:33:46.800 --> 1:33:49.439 for every single unit, and you know, isolate all the 1:33:50.280 --> 1:33:54.000 right And you know, there's been an explosion in the 1:33:54.000 --> 1:33:56.799 amount of info out there in the research world about 1:33:56.800 --> 1:34:00.840 this kind of stuff in the last fifteen years. Like 1:34:00.880 --> 1:34:03.519 a friend wrote a book in h came out in 1:34:03.640 --> 1:34:06.320 twenty twelve called What the Robin Knows by John Young. 1:34:07.240 --> 1:34:09.280 They had they had to scratch and dig to find 1:34:09.320 --> 1:34:13.800 any documentation that talked about any of this stuff. You know, 1:34:13.880 --> 1:34:16.640 everybody's got the app now, like here's the Song of 1:34:16.680 --> 1:34:21.120 the Robin, you know, here's the Song of the Phoebe. 1:34:21.160 --> 1:34:23.680 You know all these What they don't tell you and 1:34:23.720 --> 1:34:26.520 they can't is what the hell that actually means. 1:34:26.600 --> 1:34:26.760 You know. 1:34:28.200 --> 1:34:33.080 And so there's been a lot more research in that 1:34:33.200 --> 1:34:38.040 field recently, which is just it's pointing to the complexity 1:34:38.080 --> 1:34:41.920 that we've been ignoring as modern humans for a long 1:34:42.040 --> 1:34:46.800 darn time. And as it's fun. You know, you don't 1:34:46.840 --> 1:34:50.800 need expensive equipment to engage with this stuff. You just 1:34:50.960 --> 1:34:54.200 you don't even need binoculars. Just listen. Well, I don't 1:34:54.200 --> 1:34:56.120 have good hearing anymore. I shot too many guns or 1:34:56.320 --> 1:34:58.479 like me, you know, power tools and guns, and you know, 1:34:58.479 --> 1:35:01.280 I got compromised hearing. But it's not about what you 1:35:01.439 --> 1:35:05.160 can hear or can see. It's what you do with 1:35:05.160 --> 1:35:09.400 what you can hear and see. Like I noticed a 1:35:09.439 --> 1:35:11.400 friend of mine who's had a lot of the same history. 1:35:11.720 --> 1:35:14.680 We pick up on cars on dirt road, a lot 1:35:14.720 --> 1:35:18.519 further off than our wives do. Get the dogs, Get 1:35:18.560 --> 1:35:20.120 the dogs in out of the road, Like, what are 1:35:20.160 --> 1:35:21.680 you talking about. There's a car coming. Yeah, there's a 1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:25.360 car coming. I don't hear it. Well, just give it 1:35:25.400 --> 1:35:28.519 a sec you know, and there it comes. So each 1:35:28.560 --> 1:35:30.640 of us comes to the to the game with a 1:35:30.680 --> 1:35:33.280 slightly different set of superpowers, if you want to put 1:35:33.320 --> 1:35:36.519 it that way. And we're tuning into things in ways 1:35:36.520 --> 1:35:39.360 that you aren't, or you're tuning in stuff that I don't, 1:35:39.360 --> 1:35:41.240 which is in some ways, like I don't like to 1:35:41.240 --> 1:35:43.840 give a lot of instruction on this stuff because I 1:35:43.920 --> 1:35:45.760 want to hear what you find. And if I tell 1:35:45.800 --> 1:35:48.080 you what to look for, that's all you're going to see. 1:35:49.280 --> 1:35:52.160 You follow me, you know, So I really it's like, yeah, 1:35:52.240 --> 1:35:54.400 I'm gonna tell you some cool stuff to get you 1:35:54.960 --> 1:35:57.760 started plant that seed, but man, I really want you 1:35:57.800 --> 1:36:01.639 to do this on your own and te me what 1:36:01.720 --> 1:36:05.040 you find. Oh yeah, the lions, you know, the Kyle's 1:36:05.040 --> 1:36:06.679 do that at the lion, but it's when the lion's 1:36:06.720 --> 1:36:10.280 behaving like this. So like when that bobcat came through 1:36:10.280 --> 1:36:11.880 the yard the other day, I did get a small 1:36:11.920 --> 1:36:14.920 recording of the magpies, and it was nothing like what 1:36:15.000 --> 1:36:19.800 I would point out and say, bobcat over there. And 1:36:19.840 --> 1:36:24.520 what you start to realize is there oftentimes talking about 1:36:24.760 --> 1:36:29.559 Sure they're talking about the animal specifically, but as well 1:36:29.680 --> 1:36:32.920 in that mix as them talking about that animal's behavior, 1:36:33.800 --> 1:36:37.040 it's intention, you might say. So when a cat is hunting, 1:36:37.600 --> 1:36:40.920 those alarms go through the roof, they'd light up the woods. 1:36:41.000 --> 1:36:42.680 But if the cat like this one the other day, 1:36:42.680 --> 1:36:44.960 it was just kind of like walking through the yard. 1:36:45.160 --> 1:36:45.439 You know, it. 1:36:45.520 --> 1:36:48.400 Drops off the retaining wall, sits down on a log 1:36:48.520 --> 1:36:53.799 in the little cops of cottonwoods. Yeah, yeah, there's a trouble, 1:36:53.880 --> 1:36:57.439 but we're not ratting it out like crazy, you know. 1:36:57.560 --> 1:37:01.000 So in many cases you can you can actually read 1:37:01.160 --> 1:37:04.519 into the behavior. You can read into the direction in 1:37:04.560 --> 1:37:07.000 the animals moving. Like so when the kyote is alarming 1:37:07.040 --> 1:37:11.519 at something like us. Naturally, they'll often shadow it as 1:37:11.600 --> 1:37:16.439 it progresses, so you'd be like, Okay, there's a there's 1:37:16.439 --> 1:37:20.120 a wolf over there, and it's going right to left 1:37:20.120 --> 1:37:22.840 at a trot, I think, and if we want to 1:37:22.880 --> 1:37:25.040 see it, we're going to have to go over on 1:37:25.080 --> 1:37:27.679 the hill here where we're down wind. You can start 1:37:27.720 --> 1:37:31.000 doing these predictive things that our ancestors were using intimately 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:37.200 because they're hunting with rocks and sticks, need everything, and 1:37:37.600 --> 1:37:40.200 this is one of those tools that helps you on 1:37:40.240 --> 1:37:44.200 that razor's edge of survival. It's like the you know 1:37:45.280 --> 1:37:47.840 the crow Indian, you know Crow tribal folks here, they 1:37:47.840 --> 1:37:49.920 had to know Crowfair. I don't know if you guys 1:37:49.960 --> 1:37:51.760 have been to Crowfair, but they were just a few 1:37:51.840 --> 1:37:54.160 years ago. A twitter with the fact this one elder 1:37:54.280 --> 1:37:57.280 was coming out of the mountains to tend and this 1:37:57.400 --> 1:38:00.200 photographer friend of mine got to meet him, and you know, 1:38:00.240 --> 1:38:04.519 he's very low key asking questions, and the elder asked 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:06.519 this friend of mine, He's like, so, you know what 1:38:06.560 --> 1:38:09.320 do you do. I'm a photographer? You so, oh, what 1:38:09.360 --> 1:38:13.120 do you like to photograph? Bears and wolves and otters 1:38:13.160 --> 1:38:15.040 and stuff like that? You want to know where every 1:38:15.040 --> 1:38:18.360 bear is, every wolf is. He's like, yeah, he's like 1:38:18.400 --> 1:38:20.960 getting his notebook out. He's like, you know, thinking he's 1:38:21.000 --> 1:38:24.920 gonna draw map, and he's like, he says, no. He says, 1:38:24.960 --> 1:38:27.920 you listen to the birds. He says, they're like our women, 1:38:28.320 --> 1:38:29.719 the gossip about everything. 1:38:30.680 --> 1:38:34.360 Yeah, you know that's some deep wisdom right there, because 1:38:35.520 --> 1:38:38.120 it's going on all the time, but we just don't 1:38:38.160 --> 1:38:40.839 give it the credit it's due. 1:38:42.240 --> 1:38:47.840 What ah, What other animals that people that people listen 1:38:48.000 --> 1:38:52.240 would know would have a familiar familiarity with the with 1:38:52.320 --> 1:38:53.920 the vocabulary already? 1:38:54.439 --> 1:38:58.000 Yeah, great ones likerels. Okay, well in North America at least, 1:38:58.040 --> 1:38:59.840 you know, gray squirrel is a great one. They're in Europe, 1:39:00.040 --> 1:39:02.200 you know, they've been introduced to Europe and there a 1:39:02.280 --> 1:39:05.920 plague over there. But again, nature doesn't care whether you're 1:39:05.960 --> 1:39:11.120 non native or native. Everybody's contributions to this community conversation 1:39:11.439 --> 1:39:16.720 is equal and listened to. So gray squirrels. If you 1:39:16.760 --> 1:39:19.040 spend time in the woods, you know something's coming through 1:39:19.080 --> 1:39:22.920 when you hear what what what? 1:39:20.960 --> 1:39:21.000 What? 1:39:25.800 --> 1:39:28.320 Which is in contrast to. 1:39:32.760 --> 1:39:39.560 Does it ever hear that one? But without the yes. 1:39:39.479 --> 1:39:44.599 Exactly look up? That is typically for a threat from 1:39:44.600 --> 1:39:45.000 the air. 1:39:46.560 --> 1:39:48.800 He leaves off the couple like whatever. 1:39:48.600 --> 1:39:53.920 The chucks or chucks. The chucks are typically something on 1:39:54.000 --> 1:39:57.080 the ground. Same with red squirrels. 1:39:58.920 --> 1:40:00.880 That's him, that's something tally. 1:40:00.520 --> 1:40:03.160 On the ground. There's some there's some debate in the 1:40:03.160 --> 1:40:07.080 scientific community over what that actually means. And no, it 1:40:07.080 --> 1:40:09.320 doesn't mean that. It means this, and we don't know. 1:40:09.400 --> 1:40:12.840 And the bottom line is the squirrels. Now listen to 1:40:12.880 --> 1:40:22.240 the squirrels, spend time with the squirrels, because when they got. 1:40:18.720 --> 1:40:22.720 That one, what does that mean? Because there got a 1:40:22.800 --> 1:40:25.439 version that just means I'm mad at another squirrel. 1:40:25.720 --> 1:40:29.639 There is that. Yeah, you can't discount that, that's for sure, Like, dude, 1:40:29.640 --> 1:40:30.479 get out of my midden. 1:40:30.560 --> 1:40:34.200 I wish, I wish I could isolate the one because 1:40:34.200 --> 1:40:36.679 I'm really interested in the one where he sees something. 1:40:38.280 --> 1:40:40.240 But then a lot of times you'd be watching him. 1:40:40.080 --> 1:40:42.160 From a fire and he'd be like he's fired up 1:40:42.200 --> 1:40:44.639 because he's fired up at that squirrel. Yeah, you know, 1:40:44.840 --> 1:40:47.400 he's not telling about some elk coming down the trail. 1:40:47.439 --> 1:40:48.679 He's like pissed at a squirrel. 1:40:49.400 --> 1:40:52.599 And what's really crazy cool is not only is are 1:40:52.680 --> 1:40:56.720 most of these things innate in these species. So like 1:40:56.720 --> 1:41:00.719 those vervet monkeys, they are wired from birth to yell 1:41:00.800 --> 1:41:05.000 at the leopard like they do you think, so we know. 1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:09.800 So what they don't always have, well, yes and no. 1:41:10.160 --> 1:41:12.760 What they need is refinement of how to use that. 1:41:13.240 --> 1:41:15.680 So like young ones they've seen in those verbts, like 1:41:15.760 --> 1:41:18.920 adults basically like cuff the kids like, shut up that 1:41:19.000 --> 1:41:21.719 it's a root. It's a tree, root, it's not a snake. 1:41:22.320 --> 1:41:23.120 Oh all right. 1:41:23.160 --> 1:41:26.840 So there there are these innate tendencies, there's these innate alarms. 1:41:27.000 --> 1:41:30.439 But then there's also training that comes with the social 1:41:30.520 --> 1:41:33.280 arrangement that that helps them refine it so that the 1:41:33.320 --> 1:41:36.400 group can agree. Right, And that's also where you end 1:41:36.479 --> 1:41:39.639 up with these dialects. You know, the ravens on Vancouver Island, like, dude, 1:41:39.640 --> 1:41:42.799 they say stuff I've never heard before from here, Okay, 1:41:43.240 --> 1:41:48.200 totally different accent in California. Dude, he's on my surfboard. 1:41:48.439 --> 1:41:51.400 You know, it's like Manaier's you know, those ravens have 1:41:51.439 --> 1:41:55.599 different sounds, same in Alaska. Like you can see. Then 1:41:55.640 --> 1:42:03.520 it's like there are these pockets of agreed upon sound culture. Yeah, 1:42:03.560 --> 1:42:11.120 and they're talking about things in pretty complex ways. They're 1:42:11.120 --> 1:42:13.960 talking about us too, which I don't think a lot 1:42:14.000 --> 1:42:16.640 of people realize they're talking about us in ways that 1:42:16.680 --> 1:42:21.360 these wild communities are actually across species, not just across species, 1:42:21.360 --> 1:42:26.360 across genera family, order of organism that are all listening 1:42:26.439 --> 1:42:29.800 to each other simultaneously. So the mink is listening to 1:42:29.880 --> 1:42:33.719 the frogs, The frogs are listening to the owl, the 1:42:33.720 --> 1:42:35.720 the you know, the the owl is listening to the 1:42:35.800 --> 1:42:39.400 jet going overhead. You know, there's this this whole hierarchy 1:42:39.560 --> 1:42:42.360 of of order that. 1:42:42.240 --> 1:42:45.479 They have a great point that, like as much you're 1:42:45.479 --> 1:42:48.640 talking about trying to like sort figure out what the 1:42:48.680 --> 1:42:51.200 noises make, there's all these different noises that have to 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:55.120 mean something. It's interesting to get into it, Like what 1:42:55.200 --> 1:42:59.000 are other animals? So here you are a human. Here 1:42:59.000 --> 1:43:05.600 you are one specie hearing an elk bugle, drawing conclusions 1:43:05.600 --> 1:43:10.240 from that, But that elk is listening to a pine squirrel, 1:43:11.720 --> 1:43:12.880 drawing conclusions from that. 1:43:13.439 --> 1:43:16.160 None of them are in isolation. We are the ones 1:43:16.760 --> 1:43:17.440 in isolation. 1:43:17.520 --> 1:43:18.000 We're the ones. 1:43:20.240 --> 1:43:21.720 And it's not like you got to go into a 1:43:21.760 --> 1:43:24.759 wild place to hear this. No Like, literally, I'm gassing 1:43:24.840 --> 1:43:26.400 up here and bows before I got here, and the 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:28.880 chickeny is pissed off at something. I didn't see what 1:43:28.880 --> 1:43:31.000 it was, but I at least knew something's going on 1:43:31.080 --> 1:43:35.320 over there. I've done enough times walk over and be like, oh, 1:43:35.880 --> 1:43:39.280 I bet nobody in this neighborhoods seen that owl. Mmm, 1:43:40.400 --> 1:43:42.679 it's been sitting there, probably lived there its whole life, 1:43:42.760 --> 1:43:46.120 years and nobody's known that it's sitting right there. 1:43:47.200 --> 1:43:49.000 We had one hanging dead in that tree there today, 1:43:49.040 --> 1:43:49.559 din't you really? 1:43:49.680 --> 1:43:51.720 Yeah, what happened to it? 1:43:51.800 --> 1:43:54.639 We emailed or our texted one of the game wardens, 1:43:55.400 --> 1:43:57.760 and you said, there's so much avian influenza right now, 1:43:57.760 --> 1:43:59.519 and it's sitting the owls hard enough where they don't 1:43:59.520 --> 1:44:02.679 even they're out even testing all the birds anymore, that's said, 1:44:03.640 --> 1:44:05.680 And that's he was going to come by and grab it, 1:44:05.720 --> 1:44:07.200 but he was like, he's like, there's a lot. 1:44:07.160 --> 1:44:09.600 Pretty sure of it. Yeah, overwhelmed. 1:44:09.680 --> 1:44:12.720 And that's yeah, that's there's too many to check them 1:44:12.720 --> 1:44:13.280 all right now. 1:44:14.040 --> 1:44:17.760 That's what I lament is as we see biodiversity tanking 1:44:18.200 --> 1:44:23.719 around the globe, is we're losing these informants. We're losing 1:44:23.720 --> 1:44:27.920 these community members who are more than happy to welcome 1:44:28.000 --> 1:44:30.599 us in and share information with us. If we slow 1:44:30.640 --> 1:44:33.519 the hell down. Like something I do with the students 1:44:33.520 --> 1:44:35.640 that I have done for years is I'll take him 1:44:35.640 --> 1:44:39.960 out somewhere in the park and I said, everybody puts 1:44:40.000 --> 1:44:43.840 your phones, your watches, everything in a bag. Pull out 1:44:43.840 --> 1:44:45.799 a notepad or a piece of paper and a pencil. 1:44:45.840 --> 1:44:48.120 That's all you're allowed to have. Spread out, you know. 1:44:48.160 --> 1:44:50.240 So we all have everybody spread out for you know, 1:44:50.280 --> 1:44:53.320 a few yards between everybody over a let's say an acre, 1:44:54.360 --> 1:44:56.679 and we're going to sit for an hour, sixty minutes. 1:44:56.720 --> 1:45:01.639 That's it, sixty minutes and then and I just want 1:45:01.680 --> 1:45:04.200 you to look for any animals, you see, any sounds 1:45:04.240 --> 1:45:08.320 you hear, just jot them down, and we come together 1:45:08.360 --> 1:45:12.680 at the end of that. And I keep time, and 1:45:12.720 --> 1:45:14.760 they have a crude way for them to keep rough 1:45:14.840 --> 1:45:18.120 time stamps of when we're out there, so they can 1:45:18.400 --> 1:45:23.280 correlate certain things. And I'll say to them, what did 1:45:23.280 --> 1:45:25.679 you hear? Nothing? 1:45:25.760 --> 1:45:25.920 Man? 1:45:25.960 --> 1:45:29.160 There was nothing for like, I don't know, I thought 1:45:29.200 --> 1:45:32.000 I heard a chickadee like maybe minute, you know, around 1:45:32.000 --> 1:45:34.120 minute forty or when you made the signal for the 1:45:34.160 --> 1:45:37.360 fourth quarter or something like. There was nothing, and then 1:45:37.400 --> 1:45:41.760 there's stuff all over. I'm like anybody else notice that, Like, yeah, 1:45:41.840 --> 1:45:44.799 actually the nutatge came down the tree, I saw coyo. 1:45:45.040 --> 1:45:51.200 Like all these things start happening. I said, do you 1:45:51.240 --> 1:45:56.439 think us going in there screwed things up? Did they 1:45:56.479 --> 1:45:59.880 know we were coming? And you see the wheels starting? 1:46:00.280 --> 1:46:04.519 The answer to that is absolutely yes. The same signal 1:46:04.520 --> 1:46:06.920 system that's ratting out the Cooper's Hawk coming through the 1:46:06.960 --> 1:46:10.200 neighborhood or the owl perched up in this spruce is 1:46:10.240 --> 1:46:14.240 the same system that's telling everybody else about us. 1:46:14.560 --> 1:46:18.280 That's it super interesting from a hunting perspective because like 1:46:19.240 --> 1:46:21.800 you could be Glass and some mule deer that are 1:46:21.840 --> 1:46:24.479 saying a thousand yards away and you're like, they have 1:46:24.560 --> 1:46:27.599 no idea we're here, But maybe they do and they're 1:46:27.640 --> 1:46:28.880 just not worried about it yet. 1:46:29.200 --> 1:46:33.400 You know, they know the proximities, they know the priors. 1:46:33.479 --> 1:46:37.240 They know that squirrel isn't going to do that until 1:46:37.280 --> 1:46:40.680 it sees something of trouble. But they're three hundred four 1:46:40.720 --> 1:46:41.559 hundred yards down. 1:46:42.400 --> 1:46:42.840 Mm hmm. 1:46:43.200 --> 1:46:45.280 If we see the Kyle Hall and ass up through 1:46:45.280 --> 1:46:48.360 this meadow past us, we know that trouble's gotten about 1:46:48.360 --> 1:46:53.240 another one hundred yards closer. You know that ghost buck 1:46:53.320 --> 1:46:57.080 that nobody could ever harvest they at a very fine level. 1:46:57.080 --> 1:47:00.920 At that age had to be half to be tuning 1:47:00.960 --> 1:47:06.200 into these ultra fine details of alarm in their environment. 1:47:06.240 --> 1:47:09.879 And every species has a different threshold, you know, so Toey's, 1:47:09.920 --> 1:47:13.040 for instance, they're out of there so fast, or like ninjas, 1:47:13.400 --> 1:47:15.439 you just notice like they're gone, like where the hell 1:47:15.520 --> 1:47:19.840 they go. The sparrows, you know, pay attention and they 1:47:19.840 --> 1:47:21.679 make a couple of chip notes and then they take off, 1:47:21.720 --> 1:47:23.960 you know, and a couple of minutes later, here comes 1:47:24.200 --> 1:47:27.240 the dog has followed your trail into the woods. 1:47:28.240 --> 1:47:30.920 Yeah, when you're sneaking along thinking that the thing that's 1:47:30.960 --> 1:47:33.600 alerting stuff is you crunch and leaves and if you 1:47:33.640 --> 1:47:36.799 think about and you's like like the forest is alive 1:47:36.840 --> 1:47:39.280 with bird calls and whatever and squirrels and stuff. But 1:47:39.360 --> 1:47:41.760 you think it's like you step down a twig. Yeah, 1:47:41.760 --> 1:47:43.679 it's a good point. They might have been taught about 1:47:43.720 --> 1:47:44.280 you for forever. 1:47:44.320 --> 1:47:48.280 Man the turkey step on twigs, elk break brand, big break, 1:47:48.520 --> 1:47:50.360 big stuff. So like why aren't they alarming? 1:47:50.400 --> 1:47:50.640 At that? 1:47:50.720 --> 1:47:53.120 I was like so pissed as a kid, like watching 1:47:53.120 --> 1:47:55.639 these birds on my grandmother's feet are like a woodpacker 1:47:55.640 --> 1:47:57.720 come in and flush everybody, or a jay or you know, 1:47:57.800 --> 1:48:00.800 squirrel sidles up, I walk out. Everybody off. I'm like, 1:48:01.200 --> 1:48:02.000 I'm not bad. 1:48:02.439 --> 1:48:03.040 I'm not bad. 1:48:03.160 --> 1:48:05.800 Guy, Like, come on, let's you know, hang out, show 1:48:05.840 --> 1:48:09.320 me some stuff. And no, it's like you screw the 1:48:09.680 --> 1:48:13.559 least common denominator as a hiker, a dog walker, a 1:48:13.560 --> 1:48:17.120 beach comber, and you scare everybody. That's the piece we 1:48:17.160 --> 1:48:21.280 don't get is if you scare the robin, you've already 1:48:21.280 --> 1:48:26.880 been blown for everything. You scare the brown creeper, you 1:48:26.920 --> 1:48:27.639 scare the mink. 1:48:28.000 --> 1:48:28.559 You know. 1:48:28.600 --> 1:48:31.120 It's like and then there's this beautiful this is like 1:48:31.200 --> 1:48:34.400 gourmet level stuff where you start getting into secondary alarms. 1:48:34.880 --> 1:48:39.320 So like, as you slow down, I'll back up just 1:48:39.360 --> 1:48:41.760 a second, so that one exercise of making everybody sit 1:48:41.800 --> 1:48:46.360 for sixty seconds or sixty minutes, I'll say, how many 1:48:46.400 --> 1:48:49.439 times have each of you gone out in the woods 1:48:49.560 --> 1:48:53.559 or somewhere just wildish and sat for sixty minutes and 1:48:53.640 --> 1:48:57.720 done nothing but pay attention? You ask that yourself, like 1:48:58.600 --> 1:49:00.679 you know hunters some. 1:49:00.920 --> 1:49:03.360 But yeah, archery, whitetail hunters. 1:49:03.600 --> 1:49:05.439 Yeah, that's how I learned it a lot. 1:49:05.680 --> 1:49:07.800 That's when you see everything, well, you got it. Like 1:49:07.800 --> 1:49:11.280 you gotta go sit there. At like an hour in Alston, 1:49:11.280 --> 1:49:12.599 You're like, where is all this stuff? 1:49:12.600 --> 1:49:13.040 Normally? 1:49:13.200 --> 1:49:13.519 Bingo? 1:49:13.960 --> 1:49:16.559 You know, it's like stuff everywhere. 1:49:16.280 --> 1:49:19.519 It's normally exactly like you see after that hour. And 1:49:19.560 --> 1:49:22.920 that's what this lesson conveys them, is like I've never 1:49:23.000 --> 1:49:25.640 said anywhere for an hour. And so the result is 1:49:26.000 --> 1:49:27.720 the reason we don't pick up on so much of 1:49:27.760 --> 1:49:31.439 this stuff is we have never ever seen the environment 1:49:31.479 --> 1:49:34.040 we live, our home, the place we think we know 1:49:34.120 --> 1:49:36.919 the best, in anything other than a state of alarm 1:49:37.200 --> 1:49:42.280 and disruption, alarm and disruption that we have created ourselves. 1:49:42.920 --> 1:49:46.280 But the beauty is as you start to pay attention 1:49:46.439 --> 1:49:53.040 to that, they recognize it in you. And it's very simple, 1:49:54.160 --> 1:49:59.160 slow down, walk without an intention. Photographers, you know, even 1:49:59.200 --> 1:50:03.320 the photograph for not hurting anything, doing anything. The behavior 1:50:03.360 --> 1:50:05.360 most people take on when they're trying to get a photo, 1:50:05.720 --> 1:50:09.320 it's predator like I see you, I'm focused on you. 1:50:09.439 --> 1:50:15.040 I'm That is scary as hell to wild animals. What 1:50:15.200 --> 1:50:17.880 it's saying is I'm going to get you. I'm getting you. 1:50:18.080 --> 1:50:21.880 Yeah, I like I'm acknowledging that you're there, right, So 1:50:22.120 --> 1:50:23.880 like if you're yeah, coming up and you tell people 1:50:24.000 --> 1:50:25.519 if you're trying to get up on a cotton, ta'll 1:50:25.520 --> 1:50:28.200 be like last thing you do. Don't look at it exactly, 1:50:28.200 --> 1:50:30.880 look at it out of the corner, your eyeballs at it, 1:50:30.880 --> 1:50:32.720 because when you aim your eyeballs at it, it knows you're 1:50:32.720 --> 1:50:33.960 aiming your eyeballs. 1:50:33.520 --> 1:50:39.640 At it exactly exactly. It's that language. So as you 1:50:39.760 --> 1:50:43.400 slow down and as a friend calls it, I love 1:50:43.439 --> 1:50:46.920 this term that the honoring routine. You start to honor 1:50:46.960 --> 1:50:50.600 their space, you very quickly can tell what the squirrel's 1:50:50.640 --> 1:50:54.800 personal space extends to you respect that you give them 1:50:54.800 --> 1:50:56.720 a little bit of room. Ah, you know, I'm just 1:50:56.720 --> 1:50:58.360 trying to get to the store, like I'm not walking 1:50:58.360 --> 1:51:01.280 around every pigeon, Well, that is the barrier that's going 1:51:01.360 --> 1:51:05.360 to stop you from moving through the woods, Like that ghostbuck, 1:51:06.680 --> 1:51:11.080 like that lion. Do you follow me? They are paying 1:51:11.120 --> 1:51:16.320 attention to the signals in the environment and working around 1:51:16.400 --> 1:51:20.559 them and using environmental components to their advantage. So there's 1:51:20.560 --> 1:51:22.960 some places there are worthless to try to hunt until 1:51:23.000 --> 1:51:26.639 it's a south wind, right, You got to wait till 1:51:26.640 --> 1:51:29.840 the wind's right. You see, certain birds and predators hunt 1:51:29.840 --> 1:51:34.400 when it's pouring down rain, their survival is so narrow 1:51:34.960 --> 1:51:40.520 on that razor edge, and they've got this huge neighborhood 1:51:40.560 --> 1:51:44.439 watch trying to disarm them and keep them from killing 1:51:45.280 --> 1:51:48.240 their prey. And so they're doing all these different things 1:51:48.280 --> 1:51:52.679 to try to subvert the community of communication. That's busting them, 1:51:53.120 --> 1:51:57.559 that's busting you, that's busting you. You step like, literally, 1:51:57.600 --> 1:52:01.000 you got two minutes. Usually this is a fun one 1:52:01.000 --> 1:52:04.840 to play with. Tell everybody to meet me at this 1:52:04.880 --> 1:52:09.439 trail intersection at eleven o'clock, let's say, except you get 1:52:09.439 --> 1:52:12.000 in there at ten, So it means you leave your 1:52:12.000 --> 1:52:13.600 car or you know, do whatever you have to do 1:52:13.720 --> 1:52:16.800 to be sitting down by ten and let things go 1:52:16.880 --> 1:52:18.519 back to normal m h. 1:52:20.520 --> 1:52:23.560 And then which is thirty minutes whatever, Yeah, yeah, to 1:52:23.680 --> 1:52:27.080 lease at least it's usually more like forty to sixty minutes. 1:52:28.280 --> 1:52:30.280 And then as you're sitting there and the birds are 1:52:30.320 --> 1:52:34.160 feeding and they're preening and they're singing, you hear the 1:52:34.160 --> 1:52:41.360 most common alarm in the woods, what is it? Silence? 1:52:44.200 --> 1:52:48.160 Silence is the most overlooked and most common alarm in 1:52:48.280 --> 1:52:53.519 nature that exists. So you just might think there's nobody 1:52:53.600 --> 1:52:57.000 singing over there anymore, and then you see a couple 1:52:57.040 --> 1:53:00.439 of birds like hauling ass going from the park lot 1:53:00.479 --> 1:53:07.560 area past. You set your watch two minutes, so you 1:53:07.640 --> 1:53:08.840 got two minutes to figure out do you want to 1:53:08.840 --> 1:53:12.120 scare the tart and my buddy, do you want to hide? 1:53:12.200 --> 1:53:13.840 Or do you want to you know, go to somewhere 1:53:13.840 --> 1:53:16.120 else where I can watch them and screw them. 1:53:16.560 --> 1:53:18.479 This is one about the quietness, man. 1:53:18.600 --> 1:53:23.000 This is what the lion or the deer knows of you. 1:53:24.560 --> 1:53:24.640 Is. 1:53:24.720 --> 1:53:28.680 It's got two minutes through the robins, through the sparrows 1:53:28.800 --> 1:53:33.960 to do a wide loop out, listen about your progress 1:53:34.000 --> 1:53:37.720 through all the other birds and animals, and then you've 1:53:37.760 --> 1:53:39.599 had I know you, guys, if you spent any amount 1:53:39.640 --> 1:53:41.800 of time in the woods, you come back the same 1:53:41.840 --> 1:53:44.639 trail you went in on. You're like, son of a bitch, 1:53:44.680 --> 1:53:47.559 there's bear tracks right on my tracks, or wolf tracks 1:53:47.640 --> 1:53:51.759 or coyote tracts or the deer. You know, it's because 1:53:51.800 --> 1:53:55.240 they walk around you. They're listening and monitoring you through 1:53:55.600 --> 1:53:59.120 the animal language in the environment, so they're like, oh, yeah, okay, 1:53:59.120 --> 1:54:01.840 he's still going. He's going on left over that ridge. 1:54:02.280 --> 1:54:06.439 And this stuff is is of such high utility that 1:54:07.520 --> 1:54:10.200 it's one fella I mentioned in the book interviewed him. 1:54:10.280 --> 1:54:14.840 He was training special ops crews and he had a 1:54:14.880 --> 1:54:18.200 guy he trained in bird language as well as tracking, 1:54:18.360 --> 1:54:23.360 and they had a Humbye ran over an ied you know, 1:54:23.400 --> 1:54:25.439 in the road, just made a mess of this thing, 1:54:25.520 --> 1:54:28.519 and they sent him, this student of the the fell 1:54:28.600 --> 1:54:34.520 I I knew, in to find the bomb layer. And 1:54:34.560 --> 1:54:37.840 he does a few loops around the Humby site, you know, 1:54:38.040 --> 1:54:42.560 just chaos, bleeding guys, screaming guys, smoke fire. He picks 1:54:42.640 --> 1:54:47.000 up a single set of tracks leaving same set. Came 1:54:47.040 --> 1:54:50.360 in one way, left another. So he starts sign cutting. 1:54:50.480 --> 1:54:52.800 You know, some of you might know that term. You're 1:54:52.800 --> 1:54:55.800 moving fast, but you're you're periodically rechecking that you're on 1:54:55.880 --> 1:54:56.280 the prints. 1:54:56.320 --> 1:54:56.560 Okay. 1:54:56.640 --> 1:54:59.000 He broke a branch over there, you know, just trying 1:54:59.000 --> 1:55:03.080 to catch up. And he gets to a certain point 1:55:03.160 --> 1:55:07.280 where he's this is Afghanistan. There's this waddy is little ravine, 1:55:07.880 --> 1:55:13.840 and he hears the alarms. He's like that guy's he's 1:55:13.840 --> 1:55:17.360 over in there. And as he's standing there trying to 1:55:17.400 --> 1:55:19.400 figure out what to do, he starts hearing the bird 1:55:19.400 --> 1:55:25.680 alarms go up this ridge beyond the wadi, and based 1:55:25.720 --> 1:55:28.920 on what he learned, he want the opposite direction, so 1:55:28.960 --> 1:55:30.880 he get it over on to another point, get a 1:55:30.880 --> 1:55:33.320 clear view of that ridge and ends up taking the 1:55:33.360 --> 1:55:37.400 guy out. Never saw him up until that point, but 1:55:37.520 --> 1:55:40.760 he was clearly delineated in his movements and direction and 1:55:40.920 --> 1:55:45.880 speed even through the bird conversations. And that's the thing. 1:55:45.920 --> 1:55:48.240 He didn't know any of the birds. You don't need 1:55:48.280 --> 1:55:50.000 to know any of the birds. You learn the birds 1:55:50.040 --> 1:55:52.480 at home, and the patterns you find anywhere you go 1:55:52.560 --> 1:55:55.840 are the same. They're going to be filled by different species. 1:55:56.160 --> 1:55:58.200 But like I've heard so many people say, hey, you know, 1:55:59.120 --> 1:56:01.280 I never would have seen that at Mongoose. We're in Africa. 1:56:01.360 --> 1:56:04.720 But it's responding exactly the way the sparrows do at 1:56:04.720 --> 1:56:08.400 my place along the river when the mink comes through. 1:56:09.560 --> 1:56:12.720 The painted dogs, oh my gosh, Like we never would 1:56:12.760 --> 1:56:15.640 have seen them. But those birds, whatever they are, are 1:56:15.760 --> 1:56:18.200 the height off the ground. They're excited in the same 1:56:18.240 --> 1:56:20.240 way the birds are in my yard when the neighbor's 1:56:20.320 --> 1:56:23.840 dog gets loose and comes over yep. So that's the 1:56:24.200 --> 1:56:27.960 universality of that concept. Is fascinating to me that we 1:56:28.120 --> 1:56:31.920 all are operating on this same level of awareness and 1:56:32.400 --> 1:56:37.320 use of sound to know what's going on. Sometimes miles 1:56:37.360 --> 1:56:40.839 beyond our own sensory abilities, Like I know there's wolves 1:56:40.840 --> 1:56:43.120 in the park two and a half miles away. If 1:56:43.160 --> 1:56:47.040 I'm walking my dog, I hear, oh yeah yeah. At 1:56:47.040 --> 1:56:49.800 this point, it's not even a if, it's just where 1:56:50.840 --> 1:56:53.920 so I'll find that that signal maker or the coyoteor wherever. 1:56:53.960 --> 1:56:55.680 And I just set up the scope and from the 1:56:55.680 --> 1:56:57.240 deck of the house, you're like, oh, yep, you know 1:56:57.280 --> 1:57:01.880 there they are. It seems like mad to people, but 1:57:01.920 --> 1:57:07.480 it's not. It's just paying attention better people. And when 1:57:07.480 --> 1:57:12.440 you pay attention better, you get treated different. That's the 1:57:12.480 --> 1:57:14.920 real beauty to me is you start getting to know 1:57:15.160 --> 1:57:20.440 individual wild animals and they at the same time they've 1:57:20.480 --> 1:57:21.880 always already known you. 1:57:22.600 --> 1:57:23.160 Oh yeah. 1:57:23.200 --> 1:57:25.000 It's like why certain people can be out in their 1:57:25.040 --> 1:57:26.280 yard and have stuff come into it. 1:57:26.760 --> 1:57:29.720 Absolutely, that kid is the one when he comes to 1:57:29.760 --> 1:57:34.280 the prairie dog community town, he's freaking popping our buddy's off. 1:57:34.600 --> 1:57:37.560 That guy he doesn't even care. And they remember real 1:57:37.680 --> 1:57:43.480 well whether you've been nice or especially if you've been naughty. 1:57:44.640 --> 1:57:47.280 So there are times like even pigeons, let's go back 1:57:47.320 --> 1:57:51.800 to pigeons, like they remember hundreds of people faces. You 1:57:51.800 --> 1:57:55.040 can change your clothes, and the pigeons remember you. There's 1:57:55.080 --> 1:57:57.360 some there's a study done in Paris to that effect, 1:57:57.360 --> 1:57:59.960 one done in Philadelphia where they guessed that the pigeon 1:58:00.080 --> 1:58:04.280 and rocked up might know and remember thousands of people 1:58:05.400 --> 1:58:08.640 remember who's a regular, who's a tourist, you know, and 1:58:08.720 --> 1:58:13.040 log all this stuff. We are being patterned all the time. 1:58:15.560 --> 1:58:18.560 There's probably some dude listening who's thinking like. 1:58:18.560 --> 1:58:22.720 I am that there's probably some like if you think 1:58:22.760 --> 1:58:29.520 about like trying to call mallards or something that like that, 1:58:29.680 --> 1:58:33.440 there's like some code that you could crack, do you 1:58:33.480 --> 1:58:36.120 know what I mean? Like that to a duck when 1:58:36.240 --> 1:58:39.760 duck comes over and it's clearly looking for other ducks, 1:58:40.880 --> 1:58:44.400 and it's like the ducks like I know that that's not. 1:58:45.920 --> 1:58:48.200 Right, Like I don't get the problem. 1:58:48.360 --> 1:58:51.800 Right, there's some thing that's not right. Yeah, you're doing 1:58:51.840 --> 1:58:52.840 something that's not right. 1:58:52.920 --> 1:58:53.800 Everybody's just bothering. 1:58:54.720 --> 1:59:00.360 Yeah, there's something like there's something you could say, you know, 1:59:00.600 --> 1:59:05.160 there's something you could say that would just make it absolutely. 1:59:04.240 --> 1:59:05.600 That duck would have to come down. 1:59:05.840 --> 1:59:08.720 But you'll never well, you'll never learn it, you know 1:59:08.720 --> 1:59:11.200 what I mean, You'll never learn Like when he goes 1:59:11.280 --> 1:59:12.720 like no, not buying it. 1:59:13.240 --> 1:59:18.080 Yeah. That speaks to another point where I don't sometimes 1:59:18.120 --> 1:59:25.040 share too much because what these animals offer you when 1:59:25.080 --> 1:59:30.040 you are let into their world is to see their strengths, 1:59:30.240 --> 1:59:34.720 their incredible talents, but vulnerabilities. But you see their achilles 1:59:34.800 --> 1:59:39.480 heels too, and that I don't. It's thrown around so 1:59:39.600 --> 1:59:43.720 cliche but sacred. That to me is there's a sacredness 1:59:43.720 --> 1:59:47.280 in what they have shared to then betray that. Like 1:59:47.320 --> 1:59:49.480 a great example. You probably know this from your bison work, 1:59:49.560 --> 1:59:54.160 is bison have this achilles heel of following the matriarch. Yeah, 1:59:54.200 --> 1:59:58.520 and those bison hunters and partly annihilated them because of 1:59:58.520 --> 2:00:01.480 their allegiance to the matriarch. They don't move anywhere. 2:00:01.480 --> 2:00:03.560 I watched the exploit that. 2:00:05.440 --> 2:00:07.400 So she can't move, and everybody meals around, and you 2:00:07.440 --> 2:00:09.720 just mow the rest of them down. Anybody else tries 2:00:09.760 --> 2:00:12.040 to take off and charge a new course, you bust 2:00:12.120 --> 2:00:15.440 them through the guts. Everybody mills around, and you you know, 2:00:15.520 --> 2:00:17.720 you in one stand you can get a dozen or 2:00:17.720 --> 2:00:19.560 a hundred. I think there's one record of like a 2:00:19.680 --> 2:00:21.440 hundred or something bison in one stand. 2:00:21.480 --> 2:00:23.480 Guy named Vick Smith got over a hundred one time. 2:00:24.720 --> 2:00:31.720 So to me, when you're let in, it's it's changed 2:00:31.720 --> 2:00:36.000 the way I There are things I couldn't reconcile hunting, 2:00:38.800 --> 2:00:41.160 And part of that was. 2:00:41.120 --> 2:00:43.840 There there are things about hunting you couldn't reconcile, or 2:00:43.840 --> 2:00:46.240 there are animals that you couldn't reconcile hunting. 2:00:46.000 --> 2:00:51.280 For it was the former, like I didn't know what 2:00:51.440 --> 2:00:56.240 it was, but there was an honoring piece, a recognition, 2:00:56.720 --> 2:01:00.800 a sacredness that got cloud out. It over and me 2:01:00.920 --> 2:01:04.440 trying to get that turkey, that tom, that specific tom there, 2:01:04.880 --> 2:01:11.600 that buck or something like that that I'm I missed 2:01:12.360 --> 2:01:16.080 I've found now and for me this is just me. 2:01:17.280 --> 2:01:21.280 It took me stepping away from hunting to really soak 2:01:21.440 --> 2:01:25.480 into their world on their terms if you follow me, 2:01:25.480 --> 2:01:28.600 and that you know, and so they share things like 2:01:32.160 --> 2:01:37.320 there's a there's a mule deer dough model mother, model 2:01:37.360 --> 2:01:43.200 mama just we called her Mamma Deer and she she 2:01:43.320 --> 2:01:46.040 always brought off funds. She was amazing. In one year 2:01:46.120 --> 2:01:51.040 she had triplets, actually no, no, I think it was tried. Quadruplets, 2:01:51.280 --> 2:01:53.800 which for meal dr almost never happens, like she knew 2:01:53.880 --> 2:01:57.240 or to feed build up those reserves could handle that 2:01:57.320 --> 2:02:01.400 many kids and love behole. We start into that winter 2:02:01.560 --> 2:02:05.360 and it's a bitch, and one by one we start 2:02:05.360 --> 2:02:08.400 seeing those fawns not show up on the yard, and 2:02:08.480 --> 2:02:13.240 pretty soon it's down to just one. And then we 2:02:13.240 --> 2:02:17.000 don't even see Mama deer. They're gone. I'm like, what 2:02:17.040 --> 2:02:20.480 the hell? And we had years with this deer, like 2:02:20.760 --> 2:02:23.320 we had enough understanding that I would walk with at 2:02:23.320 --> 2:02:26.879 that time, our two black labradors, each about seventy pounds, 2:02:27.520 --> 2:02:29.400 and I'd go to get the mail the mailbox like 2:02:29.440 --> 2:02:33.280 tenth of mile up the driveway, and she'd be there grazing, 2:02:33.600 --> 2:02:35.640 you know, off a distance. But in the meantime she 2:02:35.760 --> 2:02:41.400 might come like right along the driveway and I would 2:02:41.440 --> 2:02:43.880 put my hands on the shoulders of dogs. Not they 2:02:43.880 --> 2:02:46.480 weren't even they weren't leashed, you know, our dogs run. 2:02:47.240 --> 2:02:50.760 But to her, this was my gesture of it's okay, 2:02:51.000 --> 2:02:53.280 they're with me, and I'm not going to let them 2:02:53.400 --> 2:02:55.960 bother you. And there are times we could walk within 2:02:56.400 --> 2:02:59.640 twelve feet of her and the fawns, like I go 2:02:59.680 --> 2:03:02.600 sit in the yards sometimes and she was so comfortable 2:03:03.120 --> 2:03:05.520 that she would walk between me, sitting on the edge 2:03:05.520 --> 2:03:08.320 of the retaining wall and the edge of the decking, 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:13.080 which was like at most thirty feet she'd walk through 2:03:13.240 --> 2:03:17.640 like we had an understanding. It wasn't she wasn't my pet. 2:03:18.040 --> 2:03:20.960 I didn't, you know, but we gave each other the 2:03:21.120 --> 2:03:25.520 space and understanding of each other's boundaries. Well, that hard 2:03:25.560 --> 2:03:29.600 winter that she disappeared, we assumed she was just gone. 2:03:30.880 --> 2:03:34.480 And lo and behold, like mid February, maybe early March, 2:03:35.400 --> 2:03:39.560 who shows up on our deck but Mama, dear, and 2:03:39.640 --> 2:03:42.600 she's just emaciated. She had this huge patch of hair 2:03:42.680 --> 2:03:46.960 missing on her back right side, like a Lombard vertebra. 2:03:46.960 --> 2:03:48.360 I don't know if she'd been hit by a car. 2:03:48.760 --> 2:03:51.640 You could see her ribs. And what does she do? 2:03:52.080 --> 2:03:56.240 She came up embedded down on the welcome mat to 2:03:56.320 --> 2:03:59.200 our front door. She came up on the deck, which is, 2:03:59.240 --> 2:04:02.200 you know, like a eight inch step up, and she 2:04:02.640 --> 2:04:06.120 bedded down there every night for I think it was 2:04:06.160 --> 2:04:09.640 three or four days until she eventually went under the 2:04:09.680 --> 2:04:10.320 deck and died. 2:04:11.160 --> 2:04:14.000 Because she knows it's nothing going to get her there exactly. 2:04:14.800 --> 2:04:20.600 She and I and our family had put in the 2:04:20.640 --> 2:04:24.880 time for her to see us, as in her worst hour, 2:04:25.920 --> 2:04:30.000 her worst time, she knew she could find refuge with 2:04:30.080 --> 2:04:32.720 that with us. Like to me, that was like one 2:04:32.760 --> 2:04:38.920 of the most crushingly heartbreaking but also beautiful things at 2:04:38.960 --> 2:04:41.400 the same time, that we had made enough of a 2:04:41.440 --> 2:04:44.720 connection that she felt that she could live out her 2:04:44.760 --> 2:04:49.760 last hours in our company, and that I can't now 2:04:51.160 --> 2:04:54.840 look at another deer and not offer them that same 2:04:54.880 --> 2:04:59.040 capacity to reproduce what Mamma deer did. Yeah, not that I, 2:04:59.120 --> 2:05:02.360 let's say, wouldn't hunt again, but the way I would 2:05:02.480 --> 2:05:05.760 hunt and view that is. And the author Joe how 2:05:05.840 --> 2:05:09.600 to put it, really succinctly nicely this way, it's not. 2:05:09.040 --> 2:05:10.720 Not the dude did all that work with turkeys. 2:05:11.000 --> 2:05:13.320 He did my life as a turkey, and buc did, 2:05:13.320 --> 2:05:15.920 and he wrote, he did a great film and book 2:05:16.040 --> 2:05:19.040 called Touching the Wild on these Mulier down in Lander, 2:05:20.560 --> 2:05:24.960 and uh, Joe, still he is. He moved back to Florida. 2:05:27.280 --> 2:05:29.480 You know, I keep touching now and then, and he's 2:05:29.560 --> 2:05:31.560 such a wealth of show. 2:05:31.680 --> 2:05:32.000 Some time. 2:05:32.680 --> 2:05:36.160 Yeah, I been some stuff going on, So I don't 2:05:36.200 --> 2:05:40.320 know how he's doing right now, but I would he's 2:05:40.040 --> 2:05:42.640 He's another one that's put in the time to see 2:05:42.760 --> 2:05:45.960 all these other facets that most of us overlook when 2:05:46.000 --> 2:05:49.600 we say, oh, look a deer, you know, And in 2:05:49.640 --> 2:05:54.000 the way he sort of described what I'm I feel 2:05:54.160 --> 2:05:56.640 is like, yeah, I'm going to go hunt again, but 2:05:57.000 --> 2:06:00.640 now I have to reckon with the fact that it's 2:06:00.680 --> 2:06:04.880 not what I'm killing as much anymore. It's who ye, 2:06:05.400 --> 2:06:07.400 who am I? Who am I choosing to take out 2:06:07.400 --> 2:06:13.040 of this population? Is this the matriarch, mama? Is this 2:06:13.280 --> 2:06:16.720 a fawn, a fawn that has a certain spark and 2:06:16.800 --> 2:06:19.919 talent that none of the others do. You know, It's 2:06:21.000 --> 2:06:24.160 it'd be very hard for me to go into hunt 2:06:24.160 --> 2:06:28.160 the way I used to when I was younger, and 2:06:28.240 --> 2:06:30.600 when I did kill something, if I did kill something, 2:06:31.480 --> 2:06:36.440 I would it wouldn't be with high fives anymore, you 2:06:36.520 --> 2:06:39.040 know what I mean, like get that big buck or 2:06:39.080 --> 2:06:46.320 something like that. It would be you know, silence, silence, 2:06:46.360 --> 2:06:50.440 with that understanding that. 2:06:48.880 --> 2:06:52.040 That it was a who who. 2:06:52.080 --> 2:06:58.240 Yeah, yeah, And just every single day of our lives 2:06:58.520 --> 2:07:01.680 is enriched by paying attention of these conversations and having 2:07:01.720 --> 2:07:04.200 these individuals come in and out of our world because 2:07:05.320 --> 2:07:09.120 they are our best teachers. When you have a shit 2:07:09.240 --> 2:07:13.560 day at work and your family is pissed about something, 2:07:13.680 --> 2:07:16.200 or you know, it's like you can always look to that. 2:07:16.680 --> 2:07:20.240 Look at that. You know, that kid over there is 2:07:20.520 --> 2:07:24.400 it's got a broken leg, you know, and it's it's 2:07:24.440 --> 2:07:27.720 not making excuses. It's still keeping up with the pack. 2:07:28.160 --> 2:07:31.440 Be it a little slower, you know. Listening to nature 2:07:31.440 --> 2:07:35.560 at that level is you start seeing issues and trends 2:07:35.600 --> 2:07:41.040 that magazines and the pop popular media want to make into, 2:07:42.880 --> 2:07:44.760 you know, the save the whales kind of approach where 2:07:44.760 --> 2:07:46.920 it's like top down, big stop. You know, It's like, 2:07:47.280 --> 2:07:51.040 to me, this is the groundswell of where caring for 2:07:51.080 --> 2:07:55.920 your environments, real stewardship, real conservation takes places you through 2:07:56.160 --> 2:08:01.520 these conversations and over overhearing what matters to them lets 2:08:01.560 --> 2:08:06.840 you into their world to know what you're doing that 2:08:07.000 --> 2:08:09.600 is harmful that you weren't even aware of. Like, oh shit, 2:08:09.720 --> 2:08:12.800 I guess I shouldn't mow the grass there now because 2:08:12.840 --> 2:08:16.240 those that's where the bunnies, that's where that's where the 2:08:16.280 --> 2:08:19.120 litter is coming off as that hole underneath that long grass. Okay, 2:08:19.800 --> 2:08:23.080 I won't mow there for a month. More like simple stuff. Sometimes, 2:08:23.120 --> 2:08:26.480 don't cut down that dead tree that's the woodpecker nest 2:08:26.600 --> 2:08:33.000 site or that is the sentinel location for the principal 2:08:33.040 --> 2:08:39.240 players in your neighborhood wildlife alarm system. You take that 2:08:39.280 --> 2:08:42.640 one seemingly useless dead tree out, and all these animals 2:08:42.640 --> 2:08:45.440 can't get a view now of what's coming before it's 2:08:45.440 --> 2:08:48.800 on them. You know, It's like, so you have a 2:08:48.880 --> 2:08:55.720 true bottom up level of appreciation and interaction that makes 2:08:55.720 --> 2:08:58.560 you a better neighbor. I think I feel that way. 2:08:58.600 --> 2:09:01.640 I still feel like a fool. I still feel ignorant 2:09:01.880 --> 2:09:08.760 and like I'm making so many mistakes, but I feel 2:09:08.960 --> 2:09:11.520 and I know when you enter into those spaces with 2:09:11.640 --> 2:09:16.000 that sort of humility, nature's pretty resilient. It gives you 2:09:16.080 --> 2:09:22.880 more latitude than you would have otherwise. Like people ask me, well, 2:09:23.160 --> 2:09:26.640 should if I'm should I make animal noises when I'm out? 2:09:26.960 --> 2:09:28.960 You know, I see some deer when I'm out for 2:09:29.000 --> 2:09:30.440 a walk, or I see the fox, Do I make 2:09:30.480 --> 2:09:31.080 fox noises? 2:09:31.240 --> 2:09:31.280 Like? 2:09:31.440 --> 2:09:34.680 No, do not. I don't imitate animals in the wild 2:09:34.880 --> 2:09:37.400 anymore because the reason is I want to see them 2:09:37.400 --> 2:09:39.640 do what they naturally do. And once you inject yourself, 2:09:39.920 --> 2:09:43.720 it's game over. It's like pulling the trigger. Almost you 2:09:43.880 --> 2:09:46.280 change the entire equation. I've been with people, we've actually 2:09:46.360 --> 2:09:50.720 killed animals through making noises and interrupting the situation. I 2:09:50.760 --> 2:09:52.680 want to see them do what they naturally do, so 2:09:52.720 --> 2:09:54.840 I have a better sense of what they have to 2:09:54.880 --> 2:10:02.560 teach me and your own voice. A lot of indigenous 2:10:02.600 --> 2:10:05.240 cultures will say, when we talk to the animals in 2:10:05.280 --> 2:10:10.480 our native tongue, they treat us like family. And so however, 2:10:10.520 --> 2:10:14.040 people are like, well, only American, I speak English, and 2:10:14.120 --> 2:10:17.760 you know, like you speak in the most expressive language 2:10:17.920 --> 2:10:23.360 you have and be sincere, and you'll start having experiences like, 2:10:23.760 --> 2:10:25.520 you know, the deer jump up on the morning walk 2:10:25.560 --> 2:10:27.200 with a dog and say, hey, wait, wait, it's us, 2:10:27.200 --> 2:10:31.680 it's us, And they stop and they go back to grazing. 2:10:32.800 --> 2:10:37.040 They might even bed back down like that. But if 2:10:37.080 --> 2:10:39.600 you bring a friend with you to watch, huh huhm, 2:10:39.920 --> 2:10:43.200 it doesn't work because they're always responding to the lowest 2:10:43.200 --> 2:10:46.520 common denominator. You bring in somebody that's not paying attention, 2:10:46.560 --> 2:10:51.120 and we give off infinite amount of micro signals and 2:10:51.160 --> 2:10:54.040 they know whether you're paying attention or not. There's stories 2:10:54.040 --> 2:10:56.000 of like the horses that can do math and tell 2:10:56.080 --> 2:10:59.560 time and read calendars and stuff, and they find out 2:10:59.640 --> 2:11:02.080 they can't do that stuff. What they're doing is queuing 2:11:02.120 --> 2:11:05.280 off of their handlers at such a fine minute level 2:11:05.440 --> 2:11:08.040 that it gives the impression that another member of this 2:11:08.280 --> 2:11:12.080 you know, another species has these capabilities when they're just 2:11:12.240 --> 2:11:15.640 it's called the kluger Hans effect. They're paying attention to 2:11:15.680 --> 2:11:20.760 you so well better than most humans pay attention. It's like, 2:11:20.800 --> 2:11:24.800 how are we missing these cues? Well, your life doesn't 2:11:24.840 --> 2:11:28.680 depend on it. When it does, you start paying attention 2:11:28.720 --> 2:11:33.080 to stuff. You know, we all have the capacity like oh, 2:11:33.320 --> 2:11:36.000 the furnace shut off, you know, look to the things 2:11:36.040 --> 2:11:38.760 that are important to us. We still have those capabilities, 2:11:38.880 --> 2:11:43.840 we just have directed them other places right right, like 2:11:43.960 --> 2:11:47.160 something there's something screwed up with that trailer got pull over, 2:11:47.240 --> 2:11:49.680 pull over, we got to check the change. There's a 2:11:49.680 --> 2:11:52.440 bearing going out or you know, like we are laser 2:11:52.480 --> 2:11:55.600 focused on those kind of details. But the power of 2:11:55.640 --> 2:11:58.320 our brain to do that can be used then to 2:11:58.320 --> 2:12:02.200 go back into the natural world like our our people 2:12:02.200 --> 2:12:06.520 did in deep time and know stuff that is magic seeming. 2:12:08.200 --> 2:12:12.400 But in ways that's really damn fulfilling, you know, when 2:12:12.440 --> 2:12:14.200 you get you know, it's like I'd love to see 2:12:14.240 --> 2:12:17.200 about in line at all, Like well we get we 2:12:17.240 --> 2:12:20.480 get photos of them, you know, it's like that it 2:12:20.560 --> 2:12:25.440 changes the whole equation. You do, you have opportunities that 2:12:25.440 --> 2:12:26.400 you wouldn't have otherwise. 2:12:27.120 --> 2:12:31.480 Tell me about the artwork you do real quick, you know. 2:12:31.680 --> 2:12:36.440 I always say my artwork is kind of my tourist 2:12:36.440 --> 2:12:39.960 trinkets or my souvenirs from living. So every piece is 2:12:40.000 --> 2:12:42.840 not just done to make a turkey or make a bear. 2:12:42.920 --> 2:12:47.360 It's done to tell an individual story that I've been 2:12:47.440 --> 2:12:49.680 let in on. Some of these animals I've known for 2:12:49.720 --> 2:12:53.640 an hour or two, some of them I've known for years. 2:12:53.960 --> 2:13:00.280 Some of them I've known for generations. And so I 2:13:00.480 --> 2:13:04.080 feel that the artwork, to me, is the a focal 2:13:04.120 --> 2:13:06.320 point to spend a ton of time figuring out what 2:13:06.360 --> 2:13:09.360 the heck that experience meant to me, if that makes sense, 2:13:11.080 --> 2:13:14.120 and it forces me to see details I would miss otherwise. 2:13:14.640 --> 2:13:17.320 And she noticed that that bowl has a knot in 2:13:17.480 --> 2:13:22.440 his lower you know, metatarsal. He broke that, you know 2:13:22.480 --> 2:13:24.680 at some point or oh there's people will say, oh, 2:13:24.680 --> 2:13:27.120 there's that that cow elk is you know, walking across 2:13:27.160 --> 2:13:29.480 the lawn and mammoth she's in she's limping. No, that's 2:13:29.600 --> 2:13:31.560 actually part of the normal gait. But that one over 2:13:31.600 --> 2:13:36.080 there she's got she's got a tooth infection. Look close, 2:13:36.200 --> 2:13:39.360 see that little swell here. No, no, not the bulge. 2:13:39.400 --> 2:13:43.920 That's the mass of r muscle or the bucinator muscle 2:13:43.920 --> 2:13:45.680 in her cheek. But right below that, it's a little 2:13:45.800 --> 2:13:52.480 you know, it's like it deepens further still. My my 2:13:52.560 --> 2:13:53.200 experience with. 2:13:53.160 --> 2:13:56.440 The wild, so that turkey is a turkey. 2:13:56.440 --> 2:13:59.960 That's a specific one inspired by I gave it a 2:14:00.120 --> 2:14:02.320 couple of talks at a nature center in Utah, and 2:14:02.360 --> 2:14:07.400 they had three toms, Tom, Tommy and Thomas. And after 2:14:07.440 --> 2:14:10.120 I was done with my obligations, I just followed him 2:14:10.120 --> 2:14:12.400 around with some clay and sculpted, and you know, it's 2:14:12.480 --> 2:14:15.760 just I was just so taken with that dexterity in 2:14:15.800 --> 2:14:18.000 their tail. It's like a geisha, you know. They waved 2:14:18.000 --> 2:14:25.200 that tail back so beautiful, you know, And when you 2:14:25.320 --> 2:14:29.560 enter into these spaces you find that words don't really work, 2:14:30.360 --> 2:14:32.320 And I guess that's I grew up around sculpture, tried 2:14:32.440 --> 2:14:35.600 like hell not to do it, but it came back 2:14:35.640 --> 2:14:37.680 around in a way that I could do it my way, 2:14:37.760 --> 2:14:41.000 And for me, it picks up where the words sort 2:14:41.000 --> 2:14:44.120 of trail off like that, just that curve of the 2:14:44.160 --> 2:14:47.200 Achilles on the bear or that shin bone, that line 2:14:47.200 --> 2:14:50.720 of always loved bones and skulls, and it's like it 2:14:51.040 --> 2:14:54.560 was a place to put it. My love of that stuff, 2:14:54.760 --> 2:14:58.400 like knowing every bone, every muscle from the inside out, 2:14:58.480 --> 2:15:01.080 then seeing the overlay of the behavi behavior and when 2:15:01.120 --> 2:15:03.520 they do this, how that bone articulates this way. So 2:15:03.560 --> 2:15:05.680 I don't use photos. I don't use video. I used 2:15:05.680 --> 2:15:07.440 to take a ton of that stuff I found, I 2:15:07.480 --> 2:15:10.800 didn't use it. I got a roadkill kit. I got 2:15:10.800 --> 2:15:14.720 a tackle box full of calipers and dissecting knives and 2:15:14.760 --> 2:15:17.000 rubber gloves, and my own data sheets. I made up 2:15:17.000 --> 2:15:18.640 one for birds and one for mammals. So I find 2:15:18.680 --> 2:15:21.520 a moose or a grizzly bear that something's illegal to have. 2:15:21.560 --> 2:15:23.200 I can take a full set of measurements and have 2:15:23.320 --> 2:15:27.520 that archive in my studio to go back to. But 2:15:27.560 --> 2:15:32.200 more accurately, what it does for me is on an elk, 2:15:32.320 --> 2:15:35.680 I find a dead elk, I might take fifty measurements, 2:15:35.720 --> 2:15:40.000 but in stretching the tape measure or the calipers, that 2:15:40.360 --> 2:15:42.680 number of measurements guarantees I have my hands on that 2:15:42.760 --> 2:15:46.600 animal at least one hundred different ways. So when I 2:15:46.680 --> 2:15:51.640 go to work on a sculpture. I'm working from more 2:15:51.640 --> 2:15:56.200 of a felt sense of the creature. I see just 2:15:56.240 --> 2:16:00.200 a momentary pose that a fox or a bad or 2:16:00.200 --> 2:16:02.440 an otter might do, or something like. I can freeze 2:16:02.480 --> 2:16:04.160 that in my mind and I can fill in all 2:16:04.200 --> 2:16:07.400 the details of what was where to make that happen. 2:16:08.560 --> 2:16:11.680 Does most of your income come from the art or 2:16:11.840 --> 2:16:14.360 from your work as a naturalist and guide? 2:16:14.440 --> 2:16:18.000 Yeah, it's the art by far we're starting to do. 2:16:18.160 --> 2:16:19.880 You're like occupationally an artist. 2:16:20.560 --> 2:16:24.360 Yeah yeah, But when you just kind of follow your interests, 2:16:24.400 --> 2:16:29.000 you kind of start screwing up the ability to be defined. 2:16:30.000 --> 2:16:32.080 Like I love I love since as the time of 2:16:32.160 --> 2:16:36.720 the kid loved stone tools and ancient technology. You know. 2:16:36.760 --> 2:16:39.440 It took me thirty years and flew to Clovis Point. 2:16:39.480 --> 2:16:42.920 But like always as a kid, there was just the 2:16:43.000 --> 2:16:45.520 time I was young, a desire to have a felt 2:16:45.600 --> 2:16:49.000 sense of what it meant to to make that. 2:16:50.440 --> 2:16:51.840 I was able to do it because I had to 2:16:51.840 --> 2:16:52.560 teed up for me. 2:16:55.280 --> 2:17:00.360 I give it the final little flap. I know it 2:17:00.440 --> 2:17:03.880 was all teed up. Yeah I did, but I took 2:17:03.920 --> 2:17:05.320 a dirty way to get there. 2:17:05.520 --> 2:17:09.200 That's dirty, dude, because the if whoever made the pre 2:17:09.240 --> 2:17:17.480 form for you will tell you the flute's nothing, little. 2:17:17.240 --> 2:17:22.600 Thumb off right, sounds like I'm done. I could do 2:17:22.640 --> 2:17:23.880 a second. 2:17:25.080 --> 2:17:27.520 Yeah, but it's what's you know that sort of stuff 2:17:27.560 --> 2:17:29.320 as well. I just has always turned my crank and 2:17:29.360 --> 2:17:32.000 I find a flake of obsidian on the ground near 2:17:32.040 --> 2:17:35.520 the house or something like. I know almost exactly what 2:17:35.600 --> 2:17:40.000 that what size and dimension that thing would have been 2:17:40.200 --> 2:17:43.280 off of. I know what direction the blow came from. 2:17:43.680 --> 2:17:45.360 I know what it was trying to do to take 2:17:45.400 --> 2:17:48.240 off that lump on whatever the pre form like, just 2:17:49.040 --> 2:17:52.840 that's always really been gratifying to me to have that 2:17:53.520 --> 2:17:57.039 bottom up, inside out kind of look at things, and 2:17:57.080 --> 2:17:59.400 the art and the educational programs, they're just kind of 2:17:59.840 --> 2:18:02.400 you know, the little venier at the top. 2:18:03.959 --> 2:18:07.840 And then hold on, when when is the book out 2:18:07.879 --> 2:18:09.320 and available? Right now? It is. 2:18:09.360 --> 2:18:12.840 It's available now wherever books are sold. You can find 2:18:12.840 --> 2:18:16.480 them all over Amazon and beyond your local bookstores. Can 2:18:16.600 --> 2:18:18.600 order it through Graystone Books. 2:18:18.920 --> 2:18:19.240 Okay. 2:18:19.280 --> 2:18:22.360 The title is Evesdropping on Animals What we Can Learn 2:18:22.400 --> 2:18:30.080 from Wildlife Conversations by George Beuman, got a forward by 2:18:30.120 --> 2:18:30.680 John Young. 2:18:32.480 --> 2:18:36.240 Anywhere books are sold. Yeah, thanks for coming on. 2:18:36.200 --> 2:18:38.800 Man, thanks for having me. Can I give one plug. 2:18:40.240 --> 2:18:42.920 What do you mean for something other than the book 2:18:43.600 --> 2:18:47.000 we're doing right now. It just went live. We got 2:18:47.000 --> 2:18:51.160 an online event that's where some of our education is No, 2:18:51.280 --> 2:18:55.680 oh no, that's fine. We have an event for people 2:18:55.680 --> 2:18:59.920 who love nature and Yellstone Park called the Yellstone Summit, 2:19:00.720 --> 2:19:03.080 and it brings together. We have this year over thirty 2:19:03.280 --> 2:19:05.800 world expert speakers, as we have for the last five 2:19:05.879 --> 2:19:10.439 years on Yellowstone talking about everything from filming mountain lions, 2:19:10.879 --> 2:19:14.440 the history of beavers in the park, to population census 2:19:14.600 --> 2:19:19.320 of moose, geology, Native American history. If you are thinking 2:19:19.360 --> 2:19:22.440 of coming to the park and want some insight on 2:19:22.480 --> 2:19:25.360 what to do and think about, join us. If you 2:19:25.720 --> 2:19:29.520 longtime yellow Stoner want more deep stuff, join us. If 2:19:29.560 --> 2:19:32.360 you're from the region. There's nothing that thrills me more 2:19:32.400 --> 2:19:36.080 than run into somebody from Billings or Beed or you know, 2:19:36.360 --> 2:19:39.000 Idaho Falls or something. There's like, oh my gosh. 2:19:38.720 --> 2:19:41.560 Is that like an ongoing thing or is it so 2:19:42.040 --> 2:19:43.920 time or yeah. 2:19:43.080 --> 2:19:48.119 It's online, so anybody with internet can get involved watch 2:19:48.120 --> 2:19:51.880 it anywhere in the world. It's registration just opened, so 2:19:51.920 --> 2:19:54.480 by the time this airs, registration will still be open. 2:19:54.560 --> 2:19:58.400 It goes live on February nineteenth through the twenty second 2:19:58.720 --> 2:20:03.640 of this a year. And yeah, it's cheap. We try 2:20:03.680 --> 2:20:06.280 to make it affordable. For fifteen bucks. You can get 2:20:06.320 --> 2:20:09.640 to access for forty eight hours. Oh to all those 2:20:09.680 --> 2:20:13.039 programs where if you want all access, which which means 2:20:13.080 --> 2:20:15.120 you can like it's great because it's one. 2:20:15.120 --> 2:20:18.240 There's a live component too, you can watch. You can 2:20:18.240 --> 2:20:19.680 get a ticket watch online. 2:20:19.440 --> 2:20:23.000 So like Deputy Superintendent Mike Trannelle of Yellstone will be 2:20:23.000 --> 2:20:25.240 given a park update and you can show up and 2:20:25.320 --> 2:20:27.959 ask him questions yourself, so like, yeah, since the flood, 2:20:28.000 --> 2:20:30.400 you know what actually is going on with the road 2:20:30.520 --> 2:20:33.520 and things like that. We've got folks who use it 2:20:33.560 --> 2:20:37.120 for homeschool curriculum. We've got folks who use it to 2:20:37.160 --> 2:20:39.840 train their park guides, so this is a training tool 2:20:39.879 --> 2:20:41.720 for them. We got park service people who watch it 2:20:41.760 --> 2:20:44.199 for their own training. So it's a very high level 2:20:44.200 --> 2:20:47.000 but also has entry level basic stuff for anybody interested, 2:20:47.000 --> 2:20:49.800 whether they actually ever make it here or not. And 2:20:50.920 --> 2:20:53.840 just to check it out at Yellstone Summit dot com. 2:20:54.120 --> 2:20:57.520 Got it so Yellstone Summit dot com and eavesdropping on 2:20:57.600 --> 2:21:00.840 animals what we can learn from wildlife Converse stations with 2:21:01.200 --> 2:21:01.959 George Buming. 2:21:02.000 --> 2:21:02.880 Thanks for coming on man 2:21:03.480 --> 2:21:04.920 My pleasure guys, thanks for having me