1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Well, I have to 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: tell you, when I was running for office, I met 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: a lot of guys in Detroit that I honestly said 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: to myself, does the mob still exist? Is there really 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: a mob? And I think when you grow up in 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: the suburbs in the Midwest, you think like these are 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: all just fantasy stories, and you watch The Godfather and 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: you think nothing was really ever like this. Well, apparently 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: it is and it was. And we have a I 10 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: don't know if we call him a former mob boss. 11 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: I guess that's what we'd call you, Michael. We've got 12 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Michael Frenzies with us. He's one of the most notorious 13 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: mob bosses from the eighties, working as a captain in 14 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: the Colombo crime family in New York City. Rudy Giuliani 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: was after him, but he ended up serving ten years 16 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: in prison and became a born again Christian, left the mob, 17 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: walked away. How how do you walk away from the mob? Michael? 18 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me toutor you know, it's not easy. 19 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: I can tell you that, and I never I never 20 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: really had. You know, there's no blueprint for walking away 21 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: from that life, not entering a witness protection program and 22 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 2: then going on to you know, be blessed as I 23 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: have and live a normal life, fairly normal anyway. But 24 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: you know I was determined. You know, you know the problem, Tutor. 25 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: I always call the mob life an evil life, and 26 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: I want to be clear on this. I'm not calling 27 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: the guys evil. I always one of them. I just 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 2: happened to be very blessed. But I don't know any 29 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 2: family of any member of that life that hasn't been 30 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 2: totally devastated, including my own now, not my wife and kids, 31 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: but my mother and father, brothers, sisters. It was just 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: that they're all devastating me. They're all it ended badly 33 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: for all of them. And when I met my current wife, 34 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: now we're going on forty years married this year, I said, 35 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: I don't want to do this to her. You know, 36 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: I have to make a choice because I was a 37 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: big target. I had been dieted several times, and I 38 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: had a big bulls eye on my back. It was 39 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 2: only a matter of time before they put me away 40 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: for a long time. So I had to make a choice. 41 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: It's either the life or her. But I didn't want 42 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: to hurt anybody. I didn't want to leave in that way, 43 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 2: I wasn't met anybody, So it was really it was 44 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: a really tough line that I had to walk for 45 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: several years. And I just you know, I attribute my 46 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: faith in God having a different plan and purpose from 47 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: my life for allowing me to be where I am today. 48 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 1: So how did that happen? I mean, you were one 49 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: of the most notorious mob bosses in New York City. 50 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: You were listed what in Forbes or something as one 51 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: of the top five mob bosses in the country, right, Well, it. 52 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: Was Fortune magazine that wrote a huge story back in 53 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: eighty six. They actually had a chart with was the 54 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: fifty most wealthy and powerful mob bosses in the country, 55 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: and I was actually number eighteen on the list of fifty. 56 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 2: I was the youngest guy on the list, and yeah, 57 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: I was one of the six that they wrote up 58 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: in that story. So yeah, I mean, you know, I 59 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: had a very high profile with them. I was arrested 60 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 2: eighteen times. I was indicted seven times. I had two 61 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: federal racketeers in cases, one state case. I went to 62 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: trial five times. I was either acquitted or dismissed in 63 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: every case. Very fortunate for that, So it was only 64 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: a matter of time. You know that they were coming 65 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: after me. So I had devised a scheme along with 66 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: another fellow, my partner at the time, to defraud the 67 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: government at attacks on every gallon of gasoline. It was 68 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: a big scheme. We were bringing down, honestly eight nine 69 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: ten million dollars a week in federal tax money and 70 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: state tax money that we were defrauding the government from. 71 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 2: And I took a plea on that case. I got 72 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: a ten year prison sentence. I had a fifteen million 73 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: dollar restitution, five million in forfeitures, and it was it 74 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: was part of the plan to take that plea, marry 75 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: my wife, who I had really only been with for 76 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: a year at that time, move out to California, and 77 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: after I did my time, I figured, you know, I 78 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: had parole and probation. You can't really meet with people 79 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: during that time. It's a violation. And I thought after 80 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: ten or twelve years, the guys in New York would 81 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: forget about me and I'd live out in CANi. It 82 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: didn't happen that way. It got kind of complicated, but 83 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: again without getting through the whole story, I was just 84 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: able to navigate it. And you had a lot of 85 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: tough moments. I had people mad at me on both sides. 86 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: My father, who was a major figure in that life, 87 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: you kind of disowned me for a while. We did 88 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 2: patch it up again, we did get back together. 89 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: But it was but at a certain point, even your 90 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: father has a hit out on you. Right. 91 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: Well, that's what the government told me. You know. They 92 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: came into the prison and they said it became public 93 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: that I was walking away. I mean a life magazine 94 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 2: did a big story on it, and they told me, 95 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: you know, we got word from our informants that you're 96 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: a dead man. May as well cooperate with us. We'll 97 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: put you in the program. I didn't want that. And 98 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: they said even your father went along with the hit. 99 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: And I said, well, you know, let me worry about 100 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: my dad. I said, you know, I didn't know if 101 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 2: that was true or not, but you know, my father 102 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: in some ways to protect himself because they didn't know 103 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: what I was going to do. They didn't know if 104 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: I was going to become a big informant, if I 105 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: was going to testify against people. It hurt a lot 106 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: of people, but that wasn't my It was never my plan. 107 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: I didn't want to do that, so It was tough. 108 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 2: It was tough to navigate. But you know, over a 109 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: period of time, what the FBI did to me to it, 110 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: it was really bad. They were putting my name on 111 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: the witness list of major trials that were. 112 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: Going on in New York though you weren't a witness. 113 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were saying that I was going to technify. 114 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: And so even though I was telling my father, I 115 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: was sending word back, don't listen to this, it's not true. 116 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 2: Well that's what most informants say, and then they end 117 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: up on the witness land. But all these trials kept 118 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: coming up, and I never showed up. And then I 119 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: had done five years and I was out on parole 120 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: for thirteen months and the Feds were really on me 121 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: during that time. They ended up violating my parole put 122 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: me back in prison. So when I went back in prison, 123 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: everybody on the street was saying, well, this guy's not 124 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: coming after anybody. They put him back in prison. He 125 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 2: never appeared any of these trials, So things started to 126 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 2: turn around a little bit for me. That was a 127 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: you know, several year process, and like I said, it 128 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: just happened to work out. 129 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: But I mean, what an interesting faith story because here 130 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: you are making between five and eight million dollars a week. 131 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: You meet a woman, you fall in love, and she 132 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: introduces you to Jesus. That's a pretty big deal. 133 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: Yeah it was. I mean, you know, her and her 134 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: mother were very strong Christians, and she was only twenty 135 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: years old when I met her, and I wasn't really 136 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 2: buying into it. I grew up Catholic, but I didn't 137 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 2: have a relationship with the Lord during that time. I 138 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: just went to Catholic school and like that. But you know, 139 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,679 Speaker 2: I saw the way she carried herself and her mom, 140 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: and they were very serious about their faith. So I 141 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: respected it, but I wasn't buying into it. I still 142 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: had that mentality. But over a period of time, you know, 143 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: it really happened to me when I got violated and 144 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: they put me back in prison. They put me in 145 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: solitary that first night, and Tutor, I can honestly say 146 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: that was the worst night of my life because the 147 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: government was very upset with me for not cooperating. They 148 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: told me I was going to spend the rest of 149 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: my life in prison. They were bringing new charges against me. 150 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: I was only married a short time. We had two 151 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: babies at home. I said, hey, I'm going to lose 152 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: my wife, I'm going to lose my freedom. I'm going 153 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: to spend the rest of my life in this in solitary. 154 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: They can't put me on the yard. People are still 155 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: upset with me. I had visited my father for twenty 156 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: years in prison, so I said, what kind of life 157 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: is this? You know, I don't want to let this 158 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: young girl go through this. He's probably going to leave me. 159 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: It was all these things going through my head. And 160 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: you know, I used to say this. I used to 161 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: demean people that were suicidal. I call them weak. You know, 162 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: how do you not face up to your troubles? Well, 163 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: after that night, I never did that again because I 164 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: wasn't suicidal. But quite honestly, I just wanted to lay 165 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: my head on that cot and not wake up. It 166 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: was just too painful to think of my future. I 167 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: was only like thirty nine, forty years old. And then 168 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: a prison guard came by my cell and he looked 169 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: in and he said, you know, frenzies, you don't look good, 170 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: are you okay? And I chased them. I said, get 171 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: away from me. I don't want to see you guys tonight. 172 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: And he came back, I can push the Bible through 173 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: the slot on the door. And that was a turning 174 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: point for me. I can tell you I spent twenty 175 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: nine months and seven days in solitary. It was just 176 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: me and it's yeah. And it was during that time that, 177 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: you know, I really dove into my Bible, and you know, 178 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: I was on a search for the truth. There wasn't 179 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: I wasn't accepting it right away because my attitude that 180 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: night was, Hey, you know what, God, I followed my 181 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: father blindly into this life. I took a blood oath. 182 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: I gave this life everything. Look where it got me. 183 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: I said, I understand what my wife is telling me, 184 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: my mother in law, I said, but you got to 185 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 2: prove it to me. You know, I have to see 186 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: that this is real. And it was during that three 187 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: years almost in solitary, that I had my wife send 188 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: me books in on every faith. I was really in 189 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: a search for the truth. And I came out of 190 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: there believing with all my heart that the Bible was 191 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: God's word and that Jesus is my risen savior. And 192 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: He's only proved it to me further over the past 193 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: twenty five years in my life. But what I've seen 194 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: him do in other lives. So you know, I say 195 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 2: this all the time to it I'm not the best 196 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: Christian by far, there's no question about that. But my 197 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: faith is rock solid. Nobody can turn nobody can change 198 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: my faith. It's been too solid with me. 199 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: No, there's only one guy that's the best Christian. Yes, 200 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: you're right, So I think we all fall into that 201 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: category to one extent or another. But how much more 202 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: freedom do you feel? I mean here, I think your 203 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: story is so fascinating because you're making more money than 204 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: any of us can or most of us can even imagine, 205 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: and yet you have to have this major freedom now 206 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: that you couldn't possibly have felt. Then what's it like 207 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: to have Rudy Giuliani looking after you every step of 208 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: the way, constantly worrying that you were either going to 209 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: get killed or go to jail. 210 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you the irony of that. Right 211 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: after this interview that we have, I'm sitting with Rudy's 212 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: Juliani's yes, and I think we're going to make history. 213 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: It's going to be the first time that a former 214 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: you know, mobster who was indicted by a prosecutor is 215 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: going to be actually sitting down and interviewing that prosecutor, 216 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: and I'm looking forward to it. You know, it was 217 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 2: tough because you know, I was constantly under investigation, and 218 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: my father it was the same. I mean, he was 219 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: more high profile than I was. I grew up with 220 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 2: law enforcement around us twenty four hours a day, seven 221 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: days a week. So I grew up hating the police. 222 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: I hated the government. I hated law enforcement because I 223 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: loved my dad and I always saw them as the 224 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 2: enemies trying to hurt my family. And I had many 225 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 2: run ins with them, as you know, as a kid. 226 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: So you know, to make this total opposite change and 227 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 2: to you know, you know, I think we all know 228 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: that God can transform a heart, but transforming a mind. 229 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: This whole distorted sense of view I had grown up 230 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: where you know, good was bad and bad was good. 231 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: God really had to do a number on me to 232 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: fix that. And today some of my did his friends 233 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: are in law enforce, you know, all across the country. 234 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: Because I understand, you know, they had a role, we 235 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: had a role, and they were the good guys. We 236 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: were the bad guys. And now I get it, but 237 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 2: I couldn't understand that before So it's been a real journey. 238 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: It really has been for me. But you know, I 239 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: have a real peace about me because I really do 240 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: believe in heaven and Hell. I think it's you know, 241 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: there's no getting around that in scripture, and I believe 242 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: in God's word, you know, if we sincerely repent our 243 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 2: sins and we accept Christ and we're going to be 244 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: with Him for all of eternity. And I have that 245 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: to look forward to, and it's given me a real 246 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: peace in my life. 247 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Father in heaven, it's a beautiful story, but 248 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: it's not a story. It's a beautiful eternity and you 249 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: will go there. And that's the beauty of him leaving 250 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: the ninety nine and going after the one because you 251 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: were the one, yes, and he went after you. Let's 252 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on the 253 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: Tutor Dixon Podcast. How old were you when your dad 254 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: went to jail? 255 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: I was just turning nineteen. Well, wow, when he went 256 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: to jail permanently. Prior to that, he was in and 257 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: out because he was indicted several times. He was indicted 258 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 2: on a big murder case and they held him for 259 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: quite some time during that time. So I knew my 260 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 2: dad is going in and out of prison. But then 261 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: at nineteen he received a fifty year prison sentence, and 262 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: that's when he started his sentence, and my dad did 263 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: forty years on that fifty He was paroled five times 264 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: and violated his parole five times and kept going back, 265 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: you know. And I don't know if you know this too. 266 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: My father was released from prison in twenty seventeen after 267 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: doing his entire sentence with all the statutory good time. 268 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 2: He was one hundred years old. He was an oldest 269 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 2: inmate in the federal system at the time. 270 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: So what was it like to see he was released 271 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: at one hundred? Correct? Yes, what was that like for him? 272 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: I mean at that point, I assume you're completely out. 273 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. I was totally out of it at that point, 274 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: and it was you know, I mean I tried to 275 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: minister to my dad. You know, one of the one 276 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: of the guilts I carry around with me is that 277 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: I don't think I was effective enough. It was very 278 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: hard for me for some reason. And even though I 279 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 2: had sent the chaplain in to see him, and she 280 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: spent three hours with him, and she told me he 281 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 2: accepted Christ. During that time, I didn't see much evidence 282 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: of that afterwards. But you know, we judge people from 283 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: the outside and we see their outside behavior. I didn't, 284 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 2: you know, I can't judge his heart, but I'm hopeful 285 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: that my dad did accept Christ. But we had, you know, 286 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: we had some very difficult conversations during that time because 287 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 2: he he didn't like the fact that I left the life, 288 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: but he understood it, and I said, Dad, look at 289 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: our family. You know my mom she died in twenty twelve. 290 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 2: She was thirty three years without our husband at the 291 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: end of her relationship. I can only describe it with 292 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 2: my dad as being very ugly because she blamed him 293 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: everything that went wrong in her life, and rightfully so. 294 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 2: And what went wrong, well, my sister twenty seven years 295 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: old died is of an overdose of drugs. My brother 296 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: twenty five years a drug addict. I can't even begin 297 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: to tell you what, you know, the family went through, 298 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 2: and I personally went through just trying to keep him 299 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: alive on the street because he was kind of a 300 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: street kid. My younger sister, forty one, she died. She 301 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: was never mentally stable. So the whole family was destroyed. 302 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: So my mother was very bitter on that and I said, Dad, 303 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: look what happened to our family. I said, I couldn't 304 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: marry this young girl and bring her into the same situation. 305 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: I said, you know, I hope you understand that. And 306 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: he did, but his commitment to that life would never 307 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: allow him to fully say, Okay, he did the right thing. 308 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: But I understood it. 309 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: I knew my father, which is probably also why it's 310 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: very hard to come to him and show him Christ 311 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: because showing someone Christ is being vulnerable. It's hard to 312 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: be vulnerable with someone who is like your dad. 313 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: Yes, it really was, and you know, you know, unfortunately 314 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: for my dad, he wanted his legacy to be that 315 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 2: he died with his boots on. He would never go 316 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: against the life. He was a stand up guy all 317 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: the way. That was his mentality. I didn't want to 318 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: take that from him because I knew how important it 319 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: was for him, and that's how he passed. You know, 320 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: he would he would never talk to the FBI. He 321 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: did fifty years and tutor, he did fifty years for 322 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: a crime he didn't commit. My dad was framed. I'll 323 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 2: take that to my grave. I was guilty of my crime. 324 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: My dad did a lot of bad things in his life, 325 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, But that particular crime that he 326 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: did all the time for he was frank he was 327 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 2: innocent of I actually investigated that case, spoke to every 328 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: witness that testified against him. They recanted dead testimony, we 329 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: gave him lie. Detective tests prove they lied at the trial. 330 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: We can never get the conviction overturned. So I believe 331 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: with all my heart that my dad was framed and 332 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: he wouldn't talk to the FBI. He said, no, this 333 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: is my life. This is my life. And he did 334 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: forty years as a result of that. So, I mean, 335 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of respect I have for him 336 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: maintaining that principle, but it was really, you know, it's 337 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: really misled principle. And hopefully, like I said, he within 338 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: his heart he did accept Christ. I'm hopeful, But I thought. 339 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: At the beginning, he really didn't want you to go 340 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: into this life. Weren't you pre med? 341 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't want this life for me. He wanted 342 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 2: me to be a doctor. You know, he was pushing 343 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: me in that direction. You know, I was an athlete 344 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: in school. He didn't want this life for me. He said, 345 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: stun stay off the street, get an education, that's what 346 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: it's all about. The only time. You know, I made 347 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: the decision basically because when my dad went to prison, 348 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: Joe Colombo, who was our boss, he kind of took 349 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 2: me under his wing. I was very close to him. 350 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: He was kind of my mentor. He had the Italian 351 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: American Civil Rights League back then that I was very 352 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: much a part of. I thought it was way to 353 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: help my dad, and I got influenced by a lot 354 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: of the guys on the street that I was meeting 355 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: at that time, and they were selling me Mike, you know, 356 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: if you go too, you don't help your father, he's 357 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: going to die in prison. So I kind of had 358 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 2: a little bit of guilt about it, and I went 359 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: to see my dad in level Worth Penitentiary and I said, Dad, 360 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: I'm not going to school. If I don't help you out, 361 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: you're going to die in you because I looked at him. 362 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 2: You know, my dad was indicted and convicted of masterminding 363 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: a nationwide series of back robberies, and you know, it 364 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: didn't sit right with me because my dad didn't have 365 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 2: that principle and all the witnesses that testified against him 366 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 2: were drug addicts, and my dad hated drugs. He hated 367 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 2: anything to do with drugs. He would actually tell make 368 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: up stories about drugs to scare me from never taking drugs. 369 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: So I knew. I said, it didn't sit right that 370 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 2: my dad would, you know, associate with these kind of people. 371 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 2: When I said to him, Dad, bank robbery, he looked 372 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 2: at me. He said, son, I'm innocent. I was framed 373 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 2: on this case, he said, and we got to prove 374 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: my innocence. So I believed him until this moment. I 375 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 2: believe him, and that's what influenced me. And so we 376 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 2: were in the penitentiary and level worth and I said, 377 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 2: I'm not going to school. He argued with me a 378 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 2: little bit, but I was ahead strong kid, and he said, okay, 379 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: but if you're going to be on the street, I 380 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: want you on the street the right way. And that's 381 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: when he proposed me for membership into the Light. 382 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 383 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. So you were not exactly what 384 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: we see in the movies as a traditional New York 385 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: City mobster. You were really the mastermind behind a lot 386 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: of this. You were the smart guy that was planning 387 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: and it wasn't so much violence that you were using, 388 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: but intelligence, scheming, and negotiation. I would say, I mean 389 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: that's what I've read about. 390 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 2: Well, you know, let's put it this way. You know, 391 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: you're in the life. I'm not going to absolve myself. 392 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 2: You know, you're in a situation where you have to 393 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: do certain things if you're going to be in that life. 394 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 2: So I want to make that clear. However, you know, 395 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 2: I was I was fortunate. I knew how to use 396 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 2: that life to benefit me in business, and I had 397 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: a head for business. So I kind of brought some 398 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 2: new things into the family, Like this whole you know, 399 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 2: gas Geme was was very complicated. We put it together. 400 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I was more looked at as 401 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: a racketeer, you know, one of the guys that were 402 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 2: bringing money into the family. You know, in our in 403 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: the Columbo family, we had about two hundred and fifteen 404 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,479 Speaker 2: made guys, guys that actually took the oath. We had 405 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 2: a lot of associates, but these were guys that actually 406 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: took the oath. Out of the two hundred I'm sorry, 407 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifteen. Out of the one hundred and fifteen, 408 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: maybe twenty of us were real earners. The rest of 409 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 2: the guys were just street guys trying to grind out 410 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 2: a living doing this and that and that. So you know, 411 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: you had maybe twenty guys supporting the whole family. So 412 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 2: they kind of, you know, they want you to continue 413 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: bringing money into the family because like any other organization, 414 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 2: without money, you don't you don't exist. 415 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: So I act like I'm a complete idiot. The family 416 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: is like multiple families together. You're all bringing money in 417 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: and supporting it. Like, how does what is the behind 418 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: the scenes of how this actually work? Because I think 419 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: it's like one family, but it's actually multiple families, right 420 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: that are working together. 421 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 2: Well, in New York, you had five separate families, you know. 422 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 2: They each family had their own boss and their own hierarchy, 423 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 2: their own leadership, and their own guys. So you don't 424 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 2: operate together. I mean, there are times when you work 425 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 2: together on certain things, but each family is independent, so 426 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 2: they don't. It's not like you work together to make 427 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 2: money together. 428 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: Even though that like the people who are part of 429 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: the Colombo mafia, were you related to everybody? 430 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: No? 431 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: No, so you're all just in a family. Doesn't necessarily 432 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: mean you're related. 433 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: Correct, It's just called a family. And there is a 434 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 2: lot of nepotism in that life. A lot of fathers 435 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 2: bring their sons in and their nephews because it's a 436 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 2: security deal. You feel if you're bringing your family in, 437 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: you know they're never going to turn against you. So 438 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: there's a lot of nepotism in that life. But you 439 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: operate independently. Now, there were times when we worked with 440 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 2: the other families, obviously, because in New York, you know, 441 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: you're practically falling over one another because you know, you're 442 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: all there in the same territories New York City, Brooklyn, 443 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 2: Long Island, you know, New Jersey. But you're an independent family. 444 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: So each family had to take care of itself. So 445 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: you had guys in the family that you know, brought 446 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: the money in, and you had other guys that did 447 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: some of the other work, you know, And that's how 448 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: it went. 449 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: So there and there were legitimate businesses and then there 450 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: were not so legitimate business. 451 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I had two automobile dealerships that I owned. 452 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: I had a leasing company. I was involved in a 453 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 2: couple of restaurants and things like that, So you had both. 454 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: I had a film company back then it was legitimate. 455 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: And then you had your illegal things, you know, me 456 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: it was the whole gas tax scam. I was lending 457 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 2: money to people on the street, you know, charging them 458 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 2: interest rates. I had some bookmakers that were collecting, you know, 459 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 2: that were in the book making business with the gambling, 460 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 2: and they worked under me. So you have both. 461 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: So I mean, how do you how do you? You said 462 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: the worst night in your life was the night in prison, 463 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: in solitary, But I feel like you would be constantly 464 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: looking over your shoulder. Isn't this life so hard? 465 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: You know it is? You know. I can give you 466 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: an example. I once a couple of years ago, I 467 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: went to the doctor because I had something where your 468 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 2: beard starts to you know, you lose little spots of it. 469 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 2: I forget what it's called condition. It's temporary. But when 470 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: I went to the doctor, he said to me, normally 471 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: this is caused by stress. Do you have stress? And 472 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: I said, Doc, I don't know. I said, I lived 473 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 2: a certain way my whole life. I said, I've always 474 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 2: had you know, without getting into detail, I said, I 475 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: don't know what stress really is. And so when you're 476 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: conditioned for it, like when you know that everybody you 477 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 2: speak to could be a government informant. Every place you go, 478 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: every telephone you pick up could be, you know, bugged. 479 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 2: Every room you're sitting in might have a bug in 480 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: the room. You just you just ad that. Then you 481 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: lived that way, so you're always thinking about it now. 482 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: Of course I don't feel the same way now. My 483 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: wife sometimes tells me, you know, you've you know, you 484 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 2: talk to people sometimes you don't know who they are. 485 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: And how do you talk about this now? How is 486 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: this okay? Aren't you aren't you still worried? 487 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 2: No, you know, listen to the bottom line, Tudor. I 488 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 2: did speak to the government, you know, because I tried 489 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: to make friends with them, but I never put anybody 490 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: in prison. I never went to that extent. I actually, 491 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 2: you know, was playing a little game with the government 492 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: where making them think I was going to cooperate, but 493 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: then I wouldn't, and that's why they threw me back 494 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 2: in prison. They knew that I was basically pulling a 495 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 2: scam on the government too, just trying to make my 496 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: life smooth out because I didn't know exactly how to 497 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 2: do this. So I never put anybody in prison. And Tutor, 498 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 2: listen to this, This is the truth. On that fortune 499 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: magazine article. Right, there was fifty of us in the 500 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 2: article was written in nineteen eighty six. Forty eight of 501 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 2: them are dead. Number forty nine is still in prison. 502 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: The only one alive in free. The night that I 503 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 2: took an oath, I took the old Halloween night in 504 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, there was six of us that night. 505 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 2: I'm the only one alive. Today. They're all gone. I 506 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 2: just outlasted everybody. And all these new guys they don't 507 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: have it in for me. I mean, you know, I 508 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 2: never did anything to them and never bothered them. Now 509 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 2: I can't go back to Brooklyn and say, hey, guys, 510 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: I'm moving back into the neighborhood, you know. I mean, 511 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 2: that wouldn't be smart. It would be like I'm thumbing 512 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: my nose in their face. But you know, I always say, 513 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 2: God doesn't tell you to be stupid. You have to 514 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: use your head, you know. So I don't put myself 515 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 2: in positions like that. 516 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: So there is still a faction of the mafia that exists. 517 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah, it's not going to go away in 518 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 2: my lifetime. It's not nearly what it was during my lifetime, 519 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 2: during my era in that life, but it's not going away, 520 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 2: there's no question. 521 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: So would you say that that's mostly in New York 522 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: or is this something that we just don't know? I mean, 523 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: I ask because I've met with people a while I 524 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: was campaigning, and I was like, Man, this really feels 525 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: like a movie, you know, is it? Are there other 526 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: areas where we might not know that this exists? 527 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, look, you still have a presence in Chicago, 528 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 2: certainly in New York for sure, New Jersey, Detroit, Yes, 529 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: there's still a presence there, Philadelphia, places like that. But 530 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 2: it's you know, I always say the golden era of 531 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: the mafia Cosenouster in this country was really from the 532 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: mid forties, late forties right into the mid eighties when 533 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: Giuliani really took control and used the Rico Act very effectively, 534 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: and that was the that led to the real downfall 535 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 2: of the mob as we knew it back then. It's 536 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 2: not the same. They took a lot of the union 537 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 2: control away from us. You know, when you control the 538 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: unions in this country, you control the country to a 539 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: large degree, you really do. And we had control of 540 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: all the labor unions, the teamster unions, and we lost 541 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 2: all of that. It's not the same and so they 542 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,959 Speaker 2: and you have to credit Giuliani for this, you really do, 543 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: because he used that Rico Act very effectively and that 544 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: kind of spread nationwide and really hurt a lot of 545 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: the families. 546 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, from a political standpoint, that's kind of 547 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: how we feel about the Democrats. If you control the unions, 548 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: but it's they take you know, there's a lot of 549 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: money that goes through there and it gets funneled into 550 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: these campaigns, and it's kind of shocking when you see 551 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: the unions have a massive amount of power and and 552 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the guys in the unions are 553 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: using that to their advantage, but I think there are 554 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: deals made with some of these politicians behind the scenes, 555 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: and it's been kind of shocking to see. I mean, 556 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: the private unions and the public unions, Like we pay 557 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: our taxpayer money and that goes right into getting somebody 558 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: into power. 559 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: That's right, you know, Tutor. I wrote a book called 560 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 2: Mafia Democracy and the way I watched the government operate 561 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 2: over the pest of years, especially I'm saying in this 562 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: past administration, I mean, they operate like the mob. I mean, 563 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 2: I have to say that and you know, the book 564 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 2: is very credible. I didn't put any fluff for anything there. 565 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Rudy Giuliani wrote the forward 566 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: to it, so he you know, he, you know, he 567 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: kind of endorsed it. But it's really sad, you know, 568 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 2: the corruption that I've seen over the past four years, 569 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 2: and I'm just so glad that part of it is 570 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 2: over and we have a new president I think is 571 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: really determined to straighten this country out. And I'm excited 572 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: about that, and I'm certainly supportive of it. 573 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I'm excited about that too. I feel 574 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: like this has been the best last ten days of 575 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: the country in years. You know, we saw so I 576 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: saw people running through the streets of Washington, d C. 577 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: Carrying Trump flags, and I was like, the country's changed. 578 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: This couldn't have happened four years ago. If somebody went 579 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: through the streets of Washington, D C. Carrying a flag 580 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: that said Trump, they they gosh, they'd take them down. 581 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: The police would take them down. So and I do 582 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: think that the police were weaponized against the people. Biden. 583 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: Before I let you go, just I want to get 584 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: your opinion on this, because obviously you're someone who spent 585 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: time in prison, your dad, and spent the last years 586 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: of his life in prison. Biden had some unusual pardons 587 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: of some pretty bad guys. What's your opinion of that, 588 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: being a guy who spent his sum of his life 589 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: in prison yourself. 590 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 2: Well, tutor, I'm going to tell you this, and you 591 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: know I have no political bias. I just want the 592 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: best people in the best positions to do the best 593 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: for the country. But I will tell you this from 594 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 2: the information that I've seen that was uncovered by the 595 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: GOP investigation. You know, between the laptop, between the emails, 596 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 2: between the whistleblowers, the text messages, and all the information 597 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 2: on the laptop, there's no doubt in my mind, and 598 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 2: I'm an expert on this because I've had three racketeering indictments, 599 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: there's no doubt in my mind that Joe Biden could 600 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: have been indicted along with his family for racketeering. Whether 601 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: he got convicted, that's another story. But that's a racketeering 602 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 2: indictment without a doubt. And you know, for him to 603 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: preemptibly pardon his family going back ten years, I mean, 604 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 2: if that's not an admission of guilt, I don't know 605 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: what is Why did you have to do that? You know, 606 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 2: it's just terrible. And you know I've said this, and 607 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: you know people are worried about Trump taking revenge on 608 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: people what they did to him in this law fair 609 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: and the media being so complicit and covering up all 610 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: these things that we saw. I mean, it's not a 611 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 2: question of revenge, it's a question of justice and accountability. 612 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 2: Such horrible things have gone on in these past four 613 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: years between the border and everything else. If you don't 614 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: hold people accountable to this, when is it going to stop? 615 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: And I believe that the Justice of Artman and the 616 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 2: FBI need to investigate and hold these people accountable. Yesterday 617 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 2: I spoke to two people that were pardoned for the 618 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: January sixth dale and I'm going to post it next week. 619 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 2: What these people told me. They were never arrested before 620 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 2: in their life. One of them never even entered the 621 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 2: Capitol building the things he told me. I stood there 622 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,479 Speaker 2: and I said, how could this happen? It's just terrible 623 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 2: that you can target people that your political enemies and 624 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 2: destroy their lives, basically destroy their lives. It has to stop. 625 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: But I mean, that's what we've been saying for all 626 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: this time, and I'm not an expert. I'm just watching 627 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: from the outside, going gosh, houck. I can't imagine my 628 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: loved one being plucked off the street for going to 629 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: a protest and spending four years in solitary confinement. I 630 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: mean straining the water through a sock because the water 631 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: is so filled with russ The things that I've heard 632 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: from these people that went to a protest, like you said, 633 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: some of them not even in the building, outside the 634 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: building this and when you say you've seen government, and 635 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: I would say this has happened on both sides of 636 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,959 Speaker 1: the aisle. Government being used like the mafia, like an 637 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: organization like this, because I mean, I just got a 638 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: call today from a guy who says he got elected 639 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: and he's not one of the old Republicans. He's what 640 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, people consider a new Republican, like a maga Republican, right, 641 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: and he had former elected officials and some of the 642 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: I would say, wealthiest people in the state call him afterward, 643 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: refuse to help him during his campaign, call him afterward 644 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: and say, this is a time of peace. Do you 645 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: understand what we're saying? 646 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 2: Wow? 647 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: Who does that? I mean, in the business world, people 648 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: don't do that in the in the regular world, like 649 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: in the media world, people don't call you and make 650 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,479 Speaker 1: a backhanded threat to you. People I assume do that 651 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: to you in the world of the mafia. But look, 652 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: this is politics. Since when do you get a backhanded 653 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: threat the minute you get elected from your own side? 654 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: Wow? 655 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: That scares me. 656 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it should. I mean, it's gotten to that point where, 657 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 2: you know, I think, I mean, Trump has got such 658 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 2: a massive job on his hands to straighten this country out. 659 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: But I think he really has to focus on straightening 660 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 2: out or draining the swamp as he calls it. I 661 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 2: really think that that's critical for this country. You know, 662 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 2: I feel and listen, I'm a street guy. I've seen 663 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 2: everything you can imagine, so I look at things a 664 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 2: little bit differently. I always have, you know, I'm always 665 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 2: you know, a little courtis when I'm looking at people. 666 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: If we would have had another four years of this administration, 667 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 2: this country was finished. There's no question was finished. It 668 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: was done. There was so much dishonesty, you know, and 669 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 2: again from a former mob guy, I'm looking at people 670 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,479 Speaker 2: and saying dishonest. I knew what dishonesty was all about. 671 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 2: But it's glaring, it's right in front of you. And 672 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 2: you know what, I cannot believe how people to be 673 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: we on the street tried to hide things. You know, 674 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 2: we didn't try to, you know, be so out in 675 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: the open about what we did, but they lie on 676 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: camera this video. I just can't understand it. I don't 677 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: know how a man can conduct himself like that and 678 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 2: just be so outrageous in their lives and the deception 679 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: and think that it's okay. They feel like they're just 680 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 2: above everything. 681 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: Because when you're the government, who's coming for you, that's 682 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: how they feel. We are the government. You can't take 683 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: us down. I mean, it's really twisted. And I've so 684 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: enjoyed talking to you. You have a YouTube show, this 685 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: is where you're talking to Rudy. Yes, yes, okay, So 686 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: tell us how to find it. 687 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 2: Well, it's on YouTube. It just at Michael Francis and 688 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 2: I have a big platform there and I'm all over 689 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: social media and I'm very easy to find. But YouTube 690 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 2: is the main platform, and so we're you know, I 691 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: start the platform really by talking about mob stories and 692 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: you know, all my experiences. But after a while you 693 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 2: run out of stories. You know, I'm not going to 694 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 2: make them up. So I'm you know, I've never been 695 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 2: so invested in politics as I have been in the past, 696 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: you know, ten or twelve years. When you know, when 697 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: you have I have seven children, I have seven grandchildren, 698 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 2: and you worry about their future. Yes, so you know this, 699 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: This is what got me so invested because before that, 700 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 2: you know, I didn't really care about it too much. 701 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 2: But I'm worried about my kids and my grandkids, so 702 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 2: I got really invested in it. So now my platform, 703 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: I've had a lot of great interviews with people, and 704 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 2: you know, my whole thing is just making people aware 705 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 2: of really what's going on from my perspective. Now, I 706 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 2: do tell some you know, I like, if you notice 707 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 2: this canvas behind me, there's the fifty mob bosses. So 708 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: I'm doing a documentary style on every one of them, 709 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 2: and people love it. I mean, they love to hear 710 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 2: it from my perspective. So we give them a lot 711 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 2: of the mob stuff, but I also deal with events 712 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 2: and things like that. And you know, I would love 713 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 2: to have you on at some point because you have 714 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 2: a fascinating story. Also, really, are you going to run 715 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 2: for politics anymore? 716 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: I'm looking at it for sure. I'm not saying I'm done, 717 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: that's for sure, because I mean when I talk to 718 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 1: people like you and I hear about and I talked 719 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: to the like the gentleman I spoke to earlier who 720 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: got that backhanded threat, I think about the importance of 721 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: exactly what you're doing, fighting back exactly what Trump's doing. 722 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: Come on, let's take this country back. This country was 723 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 1: a country for the people. The idea that we have 724 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: these oligarchs, these billionaires that come in and think they 725 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: can control I mean, it's funny because what you're saying 726 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: on our side, on the Republican side, I do think 727 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: that you have a certain group of families that they 728 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: I always say that the politicians are the chess pieces 729 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: for the rich, and on the other side, it's also 730 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: billionaires and unions, and you just become a chess piece. 731 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: But Trump was the one guy that came out and 732 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: said of no one's chest piece, and he won because 733 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: the people were with him. And that's why I think 734 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: it has to go back to people who are going 735 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: to say I'm not going to be a chess piece 736 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: for the rich. 737 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 2: Well, no, Tuta, absolutely, I've followed you on Fox. I've 738 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 2: watched you many times, and so I'm a supporter and 739 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 2: I wish you would throw your hat back into the 740 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 2: rink because we need people to be honest, and we 741 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 2: need people you know, you're very credible and we need 742 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 2: we need people like you in it. I mean, I 743 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 2: can never run for office, you know. My platform is 744 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 2: just to make people aware of what's going on and 745 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 2: hopefully they listen. And so for me, it's about providing 746 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 2: information and perspective. But you know, for you, it's leadership 747 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 2: and you have credibility and and I really hope that 748 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 2: you do pursue it really well. 749 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. I'm in the midst of talking 750 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: to advisors, so I appreciate you being one of them 751 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:49,839 Speaker 1: right now. Thank you. 752 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, and Joe is very supportive of you also, 753 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 2: so he uh, I think he would like to see 754 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: that happen again too. Well. 755 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: I love I love Joe and his family, and I'm 756 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: so glad he connected us. Michael Frenzies, thank you so 757 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: much for coming on. I'm so I'm so enjoyed. This 758 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: was an unusual podcast because we don't generally get to 759 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: talk about things like this, and I've loved every minute 760 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: of it. 761 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that. And you know, I'll be visiting 762 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 2: Joe too. I think he wants me to come down 763 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 2: Diamo in a couple of months, so maybe we can 764 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 2: get together and have dinner. I'd love for you to 765 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 2: meet my wife and it would be nice. 766 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: That would be fantastic. Let's plan on that. I will, 767 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 1: I will be in touch. We'll definitely do that. 768 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 2: Excellent. 769 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Thank you, and thank you all 770 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 1: for listening to the podcast. Check out the Tutor Dixon 771 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: podcasts at the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 772 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: get your podcasts and join us next time. Have a 773 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,399 Speaker 1: blessed day.