1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,596 --> 00:00:23,716 Speaker 2: Since making his major label debut in twenty eleven, James 3 00:00:23,796 --> 00:00:26,796 Speaker 2: Blake has become one of the most distinctive voices in 4 00:00:26,876 --> 00:00:32,196 Speaker 2: pop music. His gorgeous, haunting vocals in brilliantly edited collage 5 00:00:32,196 --> 00:00:35,196 Speaker 2: style tracks have helped usher in a new sound in 6 00:00:35,276 --> 00:00:39,396 Speaker 2: popular music. James is both produced and contributed vocals to 7 00:00:39,556 --> 00:00:43,716 Speaker 2: artists like Travis Scott, Jay Z, and Spanish megastar Rosalia. 8 00:00:44,636 --> 00:00:47,676 Speaker 2: He even earned a Grammy for Best Rap Performance alongside 9 00:00:47,716 --> 00:00:51,556 Speaker 2: Kendrick Lamar, Jay Rock, and Future on the song King's 10 00:00:51,636 --> 00:00:55,996 Speaker 2: Dead from the Black Panther soundtrack. This month, James is 11 00:00:56,036 --> 00:00:59,196 Speaker 2: releasing his sixth solo album, which is a nod to 12 00:00:59,236 --> 00:01:03,356 Speaker 2: his electronic music roots. It's called Playing Robots Into Heaven, 13 00:01:04,236 --> 00:01:07,516 Speaker 2: a title inspired by the modular synth James built for 14 00:01:07,556 --> 00:01:10,876 Speaker 2: the album that creates sounds meant to evoke a spiritual 15 00:01:10,916 --> 00:01:16,076 Speaker 2: experience conjured by machines. It's a heady concept that translates 16 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:19,836 Speaker 2: into some of the most heartfelt and energized tracks James 17 00:01:19,836 --> 00:01:23,436 Speaker 2: has made to date. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks 18 00:01:23,436 --> 00:01:26,876 Speaker 2: to James Blake about how he and his longtime collaborator 19 00:01:26,996 --> 00:01:31,596 Speaker 2: Dom Maker constructed key tracks on this new album. James 20 00:01:31,636 --> 00:01:35,276 Speaker 2: also recalls how a conversation with Rick Rubin changed his 21 00:01:35,356 --> 00:01:38,916 Speaker 2: life and reveals how he spent months making new music 22 00:01:38,956 --> 00:01:42,676 Speaker 2: with Andre three thousand, only to learn on this podcast 23 00:01:42,876 --> 00:01:49,436 Speaker 2: that it may never be released. This is Broken Record 24 00:01:49,796 --> 00:01:51,396 Speaker 2: liner notes for the digital Age. 25 00:01:51,596 --> 00:01:52,516 Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. 26 00:01:53,396 --> 00:01:55,676 Speaker 2: Here's Lea Rose with James Blake. 27 00:01:56,996 --> 00:01:59,156 Speaker 3: Do you remember last time you were on Broken Record 28 00:01:59,156 --> 00:02:01,556 Speaker 3: and it was in twenty twenty and you spoke to Rick. 29 00:02:02,316 --> 00:02:04,596 Speaker 3: Do you remember what Rick said to you about the 30 00:02:04,596 --> 00:02:05,796 Speaker 3: first time you heard your music? 31 00:02:06,076 --> 00:02:08,236 Speaker 1: You know what, No, I don't. What did he say? Oh? 32 00:02:09,116 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 1: I remember a lot about working with Rick, but I 33 00:02:10,836 --> 00:02:11,476 Speaker 1: don't remember that. 34 00:02:11,916 --> 00:02:14,956 Speaker 3: I was hoping you would remember this. So I'm curious 35 00:02:14,996 --> 00:02:17,956 Speaker 3: about this because I know we tend to remember sometimes 36 00:02:17,996 --> 00:02:22,796 Speaker 3: more negative rather than positive things. He told you that 37 00:02:22,916 --> 00:02:25,876 Speaker 3: when he first heard your music, he hadn't been introduced 38 00:02:25,916 --> 00:02:29,276 Speaker 3: to any new music that he liked more than your music. 39 00:02:29,876 --> 00:02:33,596 Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. Yeah, my head's increasing in size as 40 00:02:33,596 --> 00:02:34,036 Speaker 1: we speak. 41 00:02:36,436 --> 00:02:39,076 Speaker 3: What did you take away from from working with Rick 42 00:02:39,236 --> 00:02:40,116 Speaker 3: for your third album? 43 00:02:40,796 --> 00:02:45,436 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I remember. I remember Rick was sort of 44 00:02:45,436 --> 00:02:48,956 Speaker 1: came into my life at a very tumultuous point, you know, 45 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:52,636 Speaker 1: I was deep in mental health struggles, shall we say, 46 00:02:53,316 --> 00:02:57,196 Speaker 1: and kept fucking up my relationship. I just wasn't in 47 00:02:57,236 --> 00:03:00,676 Speaker 1: a state of coherency, you know. I was just in 48 00:03:00,716 --> 00:03:06,516 Speaker 1: a very incoherent state, and I was looking to any Honestly, 49 00:03:06,956 --> 00:03:10,876 Speaker 1: I was looking for maybe an answer in the music, maybe, 50 00:03:10,916 --> 00:03:12,676 Speaker 1: but I you know, I knew it wasn't going to 51 00:03:12,716 --> 00:03:16,596 Speaker 1: be there. And Rick was actually really helpful at that 52 00:03:16,716 --> 00:03:21,076 Speaker 1: time because you know, being English growing up, we learned 53 00:03:21,076 --> 00:03:23,316 Speaker 1: to speak a certain way, you know, and I learned 54 00:03:23,316 --> 00:03:25,516 Speaker 1: to speak a certain way, and it was very accusatory, 55 00:03:25,956 --> 00:03:27,356 Speaker 1: you know. If you had a problem with someone, it 56 00:03:27,396 --> 00:03:28,956 Speaker 1: was like you've done this to me, you did that. 57 00:03:29,076 --> 00:03:31,516 Speaker 1: But you know, we didn't. We weren't taught. Like when 58 00:03:31,556 --> 00:03:35,036 Speaker 1: I came to California and people were speaking like this, 59 00:03:35,116 --> 00:03:37,516 Speaker 1: they were going, well, I just feel that, you know, 60 00:03:37,836 --> 00:03:40,276 Speaker 1: the way you did that made me feel like this, 61 00:03:41,116 --> 00:03:44,316 Speaker 1: and I feel this way, you know. So we didn't 62 00:03:44,356 --> 00:03:47,276 Speaker 1: do that. We just had to go at each other. 63 00:03:48,316 --> 00:03:52,796 Speaker 1: So so in my relationships, that would take form of 64 00:03:53,356 --> 00:03:57,676 Speaker 1: just pushing people away quite easily. If I became frustrated 65 00:03:57,796 --> 00:03:59,796 Speaker 1: or whatever, I just kind of say something that would 66 00:03:59,836 --> 00:04:04,356 Speaker 1: be too spiky and kind of ultimately not serve the 67 00:04:05,156 --> 00:04:08,716 Speaker 1: situations not served like me or them and our relationship. 68 00:04:08,716 --> 00:04:12,356 Speaker 1: And so Rick showed me and I told him about this, 69 00:04:12,396 --> 00:04:14,436 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I just it feels like 70 00:04:14,476 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 1: every time we have an argument or something like that, 71 00:04:16,396 --> 00:04:18,796 Speaker 1: I say something and I just suck it up. And 72 00:04:18,836 --> 00:04:21,276 Speaker 1: he just said, check this out, and he showed me 73 00:04:21,836 --> 00:04:25,436 Speaker 1: this book called Non Violent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg, which 74 00:04:26,916 --> 00:04:31,636 Speaker 1: completely changed my life because I until that point hadn't 75 00:04:31,756 --> 00:04:39,636 Speaker 1: learned to convey my actual needs without being accusatory, yeah, 76 00:04:39,676 --> 00:04:44,956 Speaker 1: and using accusatory language. I hadn't ever used nonviolent language 77 00:04:44,956 --> 00:04:47,956 Speaker 1: in that way. For anyone listening. Non violent language doesn't 78 00:04:47,996 --> 00:04:50,876 Speaker 1: mean that, you know, violent language could be could be 79 00:04:50,876 --> 00:04:54,076 Speaker 1: described as something like, yeah, like what I was saying earlier, 80 00:04:54,076 --> 00:04:57,596 Speaker 1: you know you did this, you shouldn't, you mustn't, you know, 81 00:04:57,756 --> 00:05:01,596 Speaker 1: stuff like that, kind of taking ownership of somebody's behavior 82 00:05:01,636 --> 00:05:03,956 Speaker 1: for them in a way and trying to control it. 83 00:05:04,036 --> 00:05:09,756 Speaker 1: And actually it was an interesting lesson in blaming your 84 00:05:09,836 --> 00:05:13,436 Speaker 1: needs so that everybody in the room realizes they have 85 00:05:13,476 --> 00:05:17,396 Speaker 1: the same needs and that we can meet each other's 86 00:05:17,436 --> 00:05:22,036 Speaker 1: needs all we can't, you know, And that's the that's 87 00:05:22,076 --> 00:05:28,556 Speaker 1: the decision. Rather than having these huge emotional kind of tantrums. 88 00:05:28,996 --> 00:05:31,196 Speaker 3: Did it change the way that you thought about things 89 00:05:31,196 --> 00:05:33,956 Speaker 3: that had happened to you in your past? Does it 90 00:05:34,036 --> 00:05:37,356 Speaker 3: take the blame away for situations if somebody you know. 91 00:05:37,756 --> 00:05:40,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think what it is it gave me. 92 00:05:40,676 --> 00:05:47,756 Speaker 1: It equipped me to go forward in peace in every situation, 93 00:05:47,876 --> 00:05:51,916 Speaker 1: regardless of if I was hurt, which was alien to 94 00:05:51,956 --> 00:05:54,556 Speaker 1: me previously, you know, and that just helped in all 95 00:05:54,556 --> 00:05:57,476 Speaker 1: my friendships and all my all my relationships really and 96 00:05:58,476 --> 00:06:00,076 Speaker 1: you know, that was a thing we talked about and 97 00:06:00,276 --> 00:06:02,596 Speaker 1: I think that Rick had learned from too, And like, 98 00:06:03,476 --> 00:06:05,996 Speaker 1: I think that was probably the best thing that came 99 00:06:06,036 --> 00:06:09,756 Speaker 1: out of that out of that session. Because the album's great, 100 00:06:09,916 --> 00:06:11,996 Speaker 1: Like I love it and I'm proud of it, and 101 00:06:12,076 --> 00:06:16,116 Speaker 1: Rick was great on the album, But the album didn't 102 00:06:16,156 --> 00:06:20,076 Speaker 1: change my life. Yeah, that sit down for like twenty 103 00:06:20,116 --> 00:06:21,196 Speaker 1: minutes change my life. 104 00:06:21,676 --> 00:06:24,276 Speaker 3: So working with him there was there was actually time 105 00:06:24,316 --> 00:06:27,436 Speaker 3: to have a deep personal conversation. It wasn't just all 106 00:06:27,516 --> 00:06:30,996 Speaker 3: work all day every day. There was time to just. 107 00:06:30,996 --> 00:06:32,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, we did a lot of speaking. Yeah, we did 108 00:06:32,916 --> 00:06:34,196 Speaker 1: a lot of speaking. I mean I was there for 109 00:06:34,236 --> 00:06:37,796 Speaker 1: like three months, so it was a long time, you know, 110 00:06:37,836 --> 00:06:41,316 Speaker 1: And I was staying at Shangri La, so there was 111 00:06:41,356 --> 00:06:43,636 Speaker 1: a lot of time to kind of and he would come, 112 00:06:43,836 --> 00:06:47,836 Speaker 1: come in about twelve, leave about seven. Yeah on the dot, 113 00:06:47,956 --> 00:06:52,076 Speaker 1: by the way, like never never missed dinner for any idea, 114 00:06:52,476 --> 00:06:56,236 Speaker 1: no matter how explosive an idea sounded like it was 115 00:06:56,276 --> 00:06:58,956 Speaker 1: going to become. He was out at seven. 116 00:06:59,316 --> 00:07:01,676 Speaker 3: Did that make you sort of like panic as an artist, like, 117 00:07:01,676 --> 00:07:03,996 Speaker 3: oh no, we got to eight o'clock. 118 00:07:04,996 --> 00:07:07,116 Speaker 1: No. What it did is it taught me that as 119 00:07:07,116 --> 00:07:08,876 Speaker 1: a producer, I didn't I don't need to just sit 120 00:07:08,876 --> 00:07:11,436 Speaker 1: around and in a studio waiting for shit. And that 121 00:07:11,596 --> 00:07:15,636 Speaker 1: is actually good to set those boundaries because otherwise, like 122 00:07:16,196 --> 00:07:17,756 Speaker 1: you know, I have to spend a lot of time 123 00:07:17,796 --> 00:07:22,156 Speaker 1: as a producer kind of just resenting the amount of 124 00:07:22,156 --> 00:07:26,276 Speaker 1: time I'm spending somewhere in like a room full of 125 00:07:26,276 --> 00:07:29,036 Speaker 1: people that I don't really want to be around, and 126 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:34,276 Speaker 1: just you know, not taking ownership of that. I can 127 00:07:34,436 --> 00:07:37,796 Speaker 1: the fact that I can leave, and I started to 128 00:07:38,236 --> 00:07:42,356 Speaker 1: I started to just leave. And what was it that 129 00:07:42,716 --> 00:07:44,676 Speaker 1: Shark Tank guy said? He was like, I don't hire 130 00:07:44,716 --> 00:07:47,436 Speaker 1: the guy who works seven days a week. I hire 131 00:07:47,476 --> 00:07:49,956 Speaker 1: the guy who goes and does golf on the weekends. 132 00:07:50,396 --> 00:07:53,036 Speaker 1: So it's like at least the person who takes a 133 00:07:53,036 --> 00:07:56,996 Speaker 1: break comes back fresh. I'd come back fresh to sessions 134 00:07:57,036 --> 00:07:59,916 Speaker 1: and feel like I could give people my best, which 135 00:07:59,916 --> 00:08:02,556 Speaker 1: is what Rick was doing. Yeah, I just didn't understand 136 00:08:02,556 --> 00:08:04,236 Speaker 1: it at the time. At the time I was probably did. 137 00:08:04,476 --> 00:08:07,596 Speaker 1: I probably did say like wait what we was just 138 00:08:07,636 --> 00:08:11,276 Speaker 1: started to sing, you know why? But no, I was 139 00:08:11,596 --> 00:08:14,196 Speaker 1: I was like twenty twenty five or twenty six, So 140 00:08:14,196 --> 00:08:17,476 Speaker 1: I didn't really understand the idea of boundary setting totally. 141 00:08:17,516 --> 00:08:18,796 Speaker 3: I was going to say it seems like a very 142 00:08:18,836 --> 00:08:20,076 Speaker 3: mature approach to work. 143 00:08:20,476 --> 00:08:23,956 Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, And I'm sure Rick has acquired that by 144 00:08:24,956 --> 00:08:27,036 Speaker 1: you know, doing the same thing I was, you know, 145 00:08:27,396 --> 00:08:32,276 Speaker 1: just spending long days and nights in dark studios with 146 00:08:32,356 --> 00:08:33,676 Speaker 1: no windows. You know. Yeah. 147 00:08:33,676 --> 00:08:35,396 Speaker 3: I don't think he was leaving at seven when he 148 00:08:35,436 --> 00:08:36,956 Speaker 3: was working with the Beastie Boys. 149 00:08:37,036 --> 00:08:37,476 Speaker 1: Doubt it. 150 00:08:37,836 --> 00:08:42,116 Speaker 3: Yeah, what is your schedule your working schedule, like like 151 00:08:42,156 --> 00:08:45,116 Speaker 3: with this new album, do you have clear set hours 152 00:08:45,476 --> 00:08:48,116 Speaker 3: every single day? Do you have like a schedule you 153 00:08:48,156 --> 00:08:48,556 Speaker 3: stick to? 154 00:08:49,116 --> 00:08:52,316 Speaker 1: You know what, I could stit to a better sort 155 00:08:52,316 --> 00:08:55,916 Speaker 1: of more ridges schedule. I try and start around eleven 156 00:08:55,956 --> 00:09:00,396 Speaker 1: and I like to do the kind of functional finishing 157 00:09:00,436 --> 00:09:03,076 Speaker 1: of music in the daytime, and I like to do 158 00:09:03,116 --> 00:09:07,596 Speaker 1: the actual kind of creative spark stuff after seven pm. 159 00:09:08,196 --> 00:09:13,116 Speaker 3: Okay, so after seven pm would be new ideas, trying 160 00:09:13,156 --> 00:09:14,156 Speaker 3: things out. 161 00:09:15,076 --> 00:09:17,836 Speaker 1: I think it's as you get closer to the witching hour, 162 00:09:18,236 --> 00:09:23,396 Speaker 1: it just becomes more and more inspiring. I think, you know, yeah, 163 00:09:24,156 --> 00:09:27,916 Speaker 1: seven is actually pretty far. I mean, really the some 164 00:09:27,996 --> 00:09:32,116 Speaker 1: of the greatest ideas come at like three in the morning. 165 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:34,756 Speaker 1: But it's just not really practical to live like that 166 00:09:34,796 --> 00:09:35,436 Speaker 1: all the time for. 167 00:09:35,436 --> 00:09:38,116 Speaker 3: Me, do you ever get haunted by ideas? Do you 168 00:09:38,156 --> 00:09:41,556 Speaker 3: get woken up and have to immediately record something? 169 00:09:42,316 --> 00:09:46,116 Speaker 1: Yeah? So the best songs I've written, probably so far, 170 00:09:46,276 --> 00:09:48,276 Speaker 1: came at around three or four, and they were written 171 00:09:48,676 --> 00:09:51,316 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, which was retrograde and 172 00:09:51,356 --> 00:09:55,076 Speaker 1: You're too precious. They're two of my favorites. I think 173 00:09:56,036 --> 00:09:58,956 Speaker 1: other times I get it right in the daytime, and 174 00:09:59,076 --> 00:10:02,836 Speaker 1: sometimes it's like, you know, eight nine, whatever. But I 175 00:10:02,876 --> 00:10:04,996 Speaker 1: do think there's something special about those hours. I think 176 00:10:05,036 --> 00:10:08,196 Speaker 1: it's just a sort of spiritual clarity that I think 177 00:10:08,316 --> 00:10:10,236 Speaker 1: is hard to find and elsewhere. 178 00:10:11,036 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 3: Do you think it's because the mind is quiet and 179 00:10:12,956 --> 00:10:16,676 Speaker 3: the world is more quiet and other things can sprout up. 180 00:10:17,316 --> 00:10:21,476 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean without sort of going all the way 181 00:10:21,516 --> 00:10:25,796 Speaker 1: woo woo. I think it's like the the channels are 182 00:10:25,876 --> 00:10:29,116 Speaker 1: kind of they're more open, and they're less interfered with 183 00:10:29,756 --> 00:10:34,436 Speaker 1: by outside influence. It's like, you know, it's like when 184 00:10:34,476 --> 00:10:37,756 Speaker 1: you're in a house that's got like three WiFi routers. 185 00:10:38,636 --> 00:10:41,396 Speaker 1: Some people are very sensitive to Wi Fi. Then they 186 00:10:41,396 --> 00:10:43,276 Speaker 1: can feel it. You know. It's like it's a bit 187 00:10:43,356 --> 00:10:45,876 Speaker 1: like that. It's like, can you feel it? I can 188 00:10:45,916 --> 00:10:50,116 Speaker 1: feel electromagnetic stuff. I think like if I'm in a 189 00:10:50,196 --> 00:10:53,276 Speaker 1: room and it's just got lots of you know, emf 190 00:10:53,796 --> 00:10:56,756 Speaker 1: then yeah, wow. We don't really think about it, but 191 00:10:56,796 --> 00:11:00,316 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, it's feasible that in thirty 192 00:11:00,356 --> 00:11:02,916 Speaker 1: or forty years time we look back at all those 193 00:11:02,916 --> 00:11:05,356 Speaker 1: signals as some kind of smoking. 194 00:11:06,036 --> 00:11:08,516 Speaker 3: Very true with the new album. Let's talk about the 195 00:11:08,596 --> 00:11:11,996 Speaker 3: new album. I saw that you released Loading today. 196 00:11:12,476 --> 00:11:12,916 Speaker 1: Yeah. 197 00:11:13,316 --> 00:11:14,956 Speaker 3: I love Loading so much. 198 00:11:15,516 --> 00:11:15,876 Speaker 1: Thank you. 199 00:11:16,236 --> 00:11:19,076 Speaker 3: It's such an excellent song, and I was hoping you 200 00:11:19,116 --> 00:11:21,916 Speaker 3: could sort of walk us through the architecture of the 201 00:11:21,996 --> 00:11:24,996 Speaker 3: song and how you put it together, because there's some 202 00:11:25,036 --> 00:11:28,756 Speaker 3: really interesting choices you made, and certain things seem almost 203 00:11:28,756 --> 00:11:30,636 Speaker 3: at odds with each other. But I'd love to hear 204 00:11:31,076 --> 00:11:31,796 Speaker 3: you describe it. 205 00:11:32,356 --> 00:11:37,036 Speaker 1: Yeah, it started with Dom bringing in a sam I 206 00:11:37,036 --> 00:11:39,876 Speaker 1: think it was something he actually wrote and played, which 207 00:11:39,916 --> 00:11:42,756 Speaker 1: is those kind of French horns at the beginning, and 208 00:11:42,836 --> 00:11:45,836 Speaker 1: he had the sample on it that went, you know, 209 00:11:45,876 --> 00:11:51,836 Speaker 1: the little poetry sample m and I wrote the wherever 210 00:11:51,876 --> 00:11:56,476 Speaker 1: I Go kind of melody over that, but I wrote 211 00:11:56,476 --> 00:11:59,716 Speaker 1: it at the original pitch, and then in order to 212 00:11:59,796 --> 00:12:02,196 Speaker 1: create what I realized is that if I just the 213 00:12:02,236 --> 00:12:05,996 Speaker 1: way the melody worked, it could be pitched up and 214 00:12:06,036 --> 00:12:09,116 Speaker 1: basically not need to be altered too much to create 215 00:12:09,956 --> 00:12:13,956 Speaker 1: kind of a cascading or a falling melody all the 216 00:12:13,956 --> 00:12:16,836 Speaker 1: way down. So if you start with the pitched up one, 217 00:12:16,876 --> 00:12:18,116 Speaker 1: then you can go all the way down to the 218 00:12:18,836 --> 00:12:21,476 Speaker 1: natural pitch. And once I've done that, it kind of 219 00:12:21,516 --> 00:12:23,396 Speaker 1: just wrote itself. Really. It was just you know. Then 220 00:12:23,436 --> 00:12:27,196 Speaker 1: it was a matter of adding a beat and playing 221 00:12:27,236 --> 00:12:31,556 Speaker 1: synths underneath the vocals to try and kind of recontextualize 222 00:12:31,596 --> 00:12:36,356 Speaker 1: it outside of the corn sample. And then I started 223 00:12:36,396 --> 00:12:41,236 Speaker 1: adding kind of more like ancillary, like the crazier sense 224 00:12:41,276 --> 00:12:46,716 Speaker 1: that go on later on. There's some funny vocal glitches 225 00:12:46,756 --> 00:12:49,156 Speaker 1: that were happening that I left it about that. 226 00:12:49,316 --> 00:12:51,276 Speaker 3: Yeah, So was that an accident. 227 00:12:51,636 --> 00:12:54,436 Speaker 1: It was a happy accident, It was. I think it's 228 00:12:54,476 --> 00:12:59,716 Speaker 1: a bug in flex pitch in logic. Logic's a great program, 229 00:12:59,756 --> 00:13:03,876 Speaker 1: but it does have some kind of quirky bugs and 230 00:13:04,756 --> 00:13:08,836 Speaker 1: things that aren't quite working as intended sometimes. And actually 231 00:13:09,196 --> 00:13:11,756 Speaker 1: depending on what setting you have the kind of flex 232 00:13:11,796 --> 00:13:15,516 Speaker 1: pitch too, whether it's monophonic or polyphonic, it behaves differently. 233 00:13:16,156 --> 00:13:17,876 Speaker 1: And I think in this case it was polyphonic, and 234 00:13:17,916 --> 00:13:21,156 Speaker 1: it kind of it was hearing something in the background, 235 00:13:21,236 --> 00:13:24,116 Speaker 1: maybe the way it like picks up on the transience 236 00:13:24,156 --> 00:13:28,756 Speaker 1: of the vocal. It just freaked out and did this 237 00:13:29,356 --> 00:13:33,716 Speaker 1: strange sound, which I love. Yeah, I love it, and 238 00:13:34,036 --> 00:13:36,436 Speaker 1: so I left it in. Yeah, there are some things 239 00:13:36,436 --> 00:13:40,156 Speaker 1: that are just happy accidents like that that to me 240 00:13:40,276 --> 00:13:43,276 Speaker 1: become Yeah, they just kind of become fabric of the track. 241 00:13:43,596 --> 00:13:46,316 Speaker 1: And then for a long time, the beaches wasn't hitting 242 00:13:46,356 --> 00:13:48,316 Speaker 1: and I just couldn't really figure it out. So me 243 00:13:48,396 --> 00:13:52,836 Speaker 1: and me and Rob from my band Rob Airhead, when 244 00:13:52,876 --> 00:13:55,676 Speaker 1: we were looking for drum machines that could could hit 245 00:13:55,676 --> 00:13:59,116 Speaker 1: a little bit harder than whatever I'd programmed in the box, 246 00:13:59,156 --> 00:14:01,356 Speaker 1: and we had this sitting here, which is the dram 247 00:14:01,476 --> 00:14:05,036 Speaker 1: x alpha bass and also the pulsar which you should 248 00:14:05,076 --> 00:14:10,436 Speaker 1: be able to the blue thing there, and just jammed 249 00:14:10,916 --> 00:14:14,156 Speaker 1: over it until I found the right drum sounds on 250 00:14:14,236 --> 00:14:16,876 Speaker 1: the TRS the role in TRS, So yeah, just a 251 00:14:16,876 --> 00:14:18,876 Speaker 1: bunch of analg drum machines to kind of like thicken 252 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:19,196 Speaker 1: it up. 253 00:14:19,836 --> 00:14:21,076 Speaker 3: The percussions super cool. 254 00:14:21,436 --> 00:14:23,876 Speaker 1: Yeah, the percussions quite unique. I mean it doesn't really 255 00:14:24,676 --> 00:14:28,396 Speaker 1: it's not exactly like a sort of trad house beat 256 00:14:28,596 --> 00:14:32,996 Speaker 1: or whatever. There's a lot of claves and funny. Yeah, 257 00:14:33,196 --> 00:14:35,956 Speaker 1: it sounded good in the club and I just kept 258 00:14:35,956 --> 00:14:37,956 Speaker 1: playing it and then I kept kind of tweaking it 259 00:14:38,196 --> 00:14:40,316 Speaker 1: until the version that you hear now. 260 00:14:41,196 --> 00:14:43,396 Speaker 3: Very cool. So when you are playing something for the 261 00:14:43,396 --> 00:14:46,876 Speaker 3: first time, what do you base the effectiveness of the 262 00:14:46,956 --> 00:14:49,516 Speaker 3: song on? Do you base it on people's reaction to 263 00:14:49,556 --> 00:14:51,916 Speaker 3: it or just how it sounds in the room to you. 264 00:14:52,596 --> 00:14:55,076 Speaker 1: It's interesting. There's like a magic that happens when a 265 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:59,196 Speaker 1: tune's hitting that you can't really describe. It's like there's 266 00:14:59,236 --> 00:15:02,956 Speaker 1: a rush of like, oh that worked, you know, Like 267 00:15:03,276 --> 00:15:08,356 Speaker 1: it's hard. It's really it is hard to explain. It's 268 00:15:08,396 --> 00:15:12,036 Speaker 1: like tracks either a magic or they don't. Yeah, you know, 269 00:15:12,076 --> 00:15:14,996 Speaker 1: There are some tracks that when I play them to people, 270 00:15:15,916 --> 00:15:17,796 Speaker 1: like the whole room like gets out of their seat. 271 00:15:18,396 --> 00:15:20,756 Speaker 1: You can see it in people's body language, you know. 272 00:15:20,796 --> 00:15:24,556 Speaker 1: It's like they start to be intrigued or interested, you know, 273 00:15:24,596 --> 00:15:27,676 Speaker 1: and then they might start moving or they just they 274 00:15:27,716 --> 00:15:32,276 Speaker 1: just get up because they can't help themselves. And you'll 275 00:15:32,316 --> 00:15:36,236 Speaker 1: hear comments like this is the one, or like, you know, 276 00:15:36,236 --> 00:15:38,876 Speaker 1: it's like people just playing it to a broad enough 277 00:15:38,996 --> 00:15:42,516 Speaker 1: range of people. And the tracks I tend to can 278 00:15:43,036 --> 00:15:46,476 Speaker 1: are the ones that never really quite get the reaction 279 00:15:46,556 --> 00:15:51,276 Speaker 1: I was looking for, never really quite hit the emotional peak. 280 00:15:52,276 --> 00:15:54,556 Speaker 1: And I think it's a chemistry thing between the drums 281 00:15:54,556 --> 00:15:57,636 Speaker 1: and the synse and whatever, but it's the overall impression. 282 00:15:57,676 --> 00:16:01,796 Speaker 1: If the overall impression just feels high, it's like a 283 00:16:01,876 --> 00:16:04,596 Speaker 1: vibration thing, you know, like coming back to the California 284 00:16:04,596 --> 00:16:08,436 Speaker 1: and speak high vibration or low vibration. You know, it's like, 285 00:16:08,996 --> 00:16:12,836 Speaker 1: is it uplifting you in some way? It doesn't necessarily 286 00:16:12,836 --> 00:16:16,116 Speaker 1: need to be happy. Yeah, it's like this. This track 287 00:16:16,156 --> 00:16:20,036 Speaker 1: relies on a kind of a kind of juxtaposition between 288 00:16:20,036 --> 00:16:23,676 Speaker 1: these kind of quite sad chords, yes, and actually a 289 00:16:23,756 --> 00:16:27,556 Speaker 1: melody that well a lyric that is basically saying I'm 290 00:16:27,636 --> 00:16:30,876 Speaker 1: only okay when I'm with you, which is not the 291 00:16:30,916 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 1: happiest lyric and actually has slightly dark undertones in a 292 00:16:34,876 --> 00:16:39,596 Speaker 1: way ittend lyric. Yeah, not necessarily the best place to be, 293 00:16:40,196 --> 00:16:43,436 Speaker 1: and yet for some reason the track sounds uplifting or 294 00:16:43,996 --> 00:16:49,116 Speaker 1: engaging and kind of slightly higher vibration than the lyrics 295 00:16:49,116 --> 00:16:51,036 Speaker 1: would kind of have you expect. 296 00:16:51,756 --> 00:16:55,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think that opposition is necessary for a 297 00:16:55,676 --> 00:16:56,636 Speaker 3: song to work? 298 00:16:57,516 --> 00:16:57,596 Speaker 2: Like? 299 00:16:57,636 --> 00:17:00,516 Speaker 3: It can't be all happy, it can't be all one mood. 300 00:17:01,276 --> 00:17:03,156 Speaker 1: I think so it depends what it is. I mean, 301 00:17:03,196 --> 00:17:06,756 Speaker 1: Happy by Pharrell, I think is all happy. I don't 302 00:17:06,756 --> 00:17:10,356 Speaker 1: think there's anything in that song that is that's trying 303 00:17:10,396 --> 00:17:14,716 Speaker 1: to counter the feeling he was going for in that case, 304 00:17:15,196 --> 00:17:18,996 Speaker 1: something as strong, you know. It's like, I think it's 305 00:17:19,036 --> 00:17:22,596 Speaker 1: just about strong decisions. I mean, it's very obviously it's 306 00:17:22,596 --> 00:17:26,476 Speaker 1: hard to just like boil down. What works about music 307 00:17:26,636 --> 00:17:30,876 Speaker 1: is it's something you know in the moment, give the 308 00:17:30,916 --> 00:17:31,676 Speaker 1: feeling you don't. 309 00:17:31,796 --> 00:17:34,516 Speaker 3: But yeah, it's so cool. I think you know a 310 00:17:34,516 --> 00:17:36,436 Speaker 3: lot of what you do. I've heard you talk about 311 00:17:36,476 --> 00:17:38,956 Speaker 3: how editing plays a really big role in how you 312 00:17:38,996 --> 00:17:42,156 Speaker 3: make music, and I don't know if it's a superpower 313 00:17:42,316 --> 00:17:45,436 Speaker 3: or a hidden power, but it gives you a whole 314 00:17:45,556 --> 00:17:49,396 Speaker 3: extra layer of tools to use on what you make. 315 00:17:49,796 --> 00:17:52,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of the frustrating the things one 316 00:17:52,556 --> 00:17:56,516 Speaker 1: of the things I find frustrating about collaborating sometimes is 317 00:17:56,556 --> 00:17:59,436 Speaker 1: that very often somebody just kind of wants a verse 318 00:18:00,556 --> 00:18:05,556 Speaker 1: and there's not a huge amount of rim for creativity 319 00:18:05,636 --> 00:18:10,316 Speaker 1: within it, and it's not really where I match usually 320 00:18:10,356 --> 00:18:12,756 Speaker 1: at my best, Like I can write a verse for someone, 321 00:18:13,036 --> 00:18:17,556 Speaker 1: but I feel most comfortable when I'm recording myself, yeah, 322 00:18:17,676 --> 00:18:20,276 Speaker 1: and just taking the vocals and using them as a 323 00:18:20,356 --> 00:18:23,396 Speaker 1: kind of material. Right. That's how I write most of 324 00:18:23,396 --> 00:18:26,796 Speaker 1: my stuff, even if even if it's just speeding up 325 00:18:26,836 --> 00:18:29,316 Speaker 1: for a second or putting an effect on it for 326 00:18:29,356 --> 00:18:32,196 Speaker 1: a second to kind of create a moment that I 327 00:18:32,236 --> 00:18:35,556 Speaker 1: can bounce off to write another thing. Maybe that next 328 00:18:35,556 --> 00:18:38,836 Speaker 1: thing is a better idea than even the first stuff 329 00:18:38,876 --> 00:18:43,156 Speaker 1: I write. But I always use, almost always use editing 330 00:18:43,156 --> 00:18:46,876 Speaker 1: as a kind of bridge to a better idea. Because 331 00:18:48,156 --> 00:18:52,236 Speaker 1: my voice is it's easy to me in plate. I mean, 332 00:18:52,236 --> 00:18:57,156 Speaker 1: I guess everyone's is, but I find that, I mean, 333 00:18:57,196 --> 00:18:59,316 Speaker 1: I get bored of my own voice. You know. That's 334 00:18:59,356 --> 00:19:01,156 Speaker 1: That's the other thing is like, you know, I think 335 00:19:01,196 --> 00:19:04,876 Speaker 1: everyone does, But after however many songs I've written, it's 336 00:19:04,996 --> 00:19:08,596 Speaker 1: just like if I've been writing a lot of music 337 00:19:08,756 --> 00:19:10,876 Speaker 1: over the of the month, you're going to get more 338 00:19:10,916 --> 00:19:13,036 Speaker 1: and more of me trying to experiment, to get away 339 00:19:13,036 --> 00:19:17,996 Speaker 1: from how I regularly sound. But there are other times 340 00:19:17,996 --> 00:19:20,436 Speaker 1: when I come to the piano and I just i'd 341 00:19:20,476 --> 00:19:23,836 Speaker 1: feel everything sounds fresh, and I feel like I'm a 342 00:19:23,876 --> 00:19:25,196 Speaker 1: new singer in a way. 343 00:19:25,676 --> 00:19:30,196 Speaker 3: Would you ever consider releasing just a straight ahead you 344 00:19:30,236 --> 00:19:36,276 Speaker 3: at a piano singer songwriter style album or does that 345 00:19:36,316 --> 00:19:38,476 Speaker 3: feel boring in the way that you're saying you get 346 00:19:38,716 --> 00:19:40,116 Speaker 3: you can get sick of your voice. 347 00:19:40,516 --> 00:19:42,116 Speaker 1: I think if I were to do that, I'd have 348 00:19:42,156 --> 00:19:44,956 Speaker 1: to I'd have to find new ways to play the 349 00:19:44,956 --> 00:19:48,396 Speaker 1: piano and play my voice. I don't know, it's not 350 00:19:48,436 --> 00:19:51,116 Speaker 1: out of the question a minute. I sometimes think computers 351 00:19:51,196 --> 00:19:56,316 Speaker 1: also become a massive hindrance, and editing becomes a kind 352 00:19:56,316 --> 00:20:00,996 Speaker 1: of disconnecting thing. And staring at a laptop screen is 353 00:20:01,316 --> 00:20:05,236 Speaker 1: it hollows you? Really totally so in a way like 354 00:20:05,476 --> 00:20:07,716 Speaker 1: after looking at a screen for about an hour, I 355 00:20:07,756 --> 00:20:10,996 Speaker 1: start to make very bad musical decisions. By bad I 356 00:20:11,036 --> 00:20:15,076 Speaker 1: mean disconnected. I don't know. It's kind of no secrets. 357 00:20:15,076 --> 00:20:18,196 Speaker 1: It's like some days I want to be at the pianos. 358 00:20:18,276 --> 00:20:23,156 Speaker 1: Some days I just it feels trite and done to death, 359 00:20:23,596 --> 00:20:26,316 Speaker 1: and then other days the piano feels like the only 360 00:20:26,356 --> 00:20:29,076 Speaker 1: place to express something, and it's and it's the most 361 00:20:29,116 --> 00:20:32,756 Speaker 1: magical instrument. It's the only way I can really communicate it. 362 00:20:32,836 --> 00:20:36,476 Speaker 3: So has your voice always sounded like your voice when 363 00:20:36,516 --> 00:20:39,196 Speaker 3: you first started singing? Did it sound like the James 364 00:20:39,236 --> 00:20:42,276 Speaker 3: Blake we know now or did you have a different 365 00:20:42,316 --> 00:20:43,476 Speaker 3: tone or a different style. 366 00:20:44,356 --> 00:20:47,956 Speaker 1: I had a different tone because I was my voice 367 00:20:47,996 --> 00:20:51,876 Speaker 1: was breaking at the time. Yeah, but I definitely I 368 00:20:51,956 --> 00:20:54,756 Speaker 1: was copying other singers more than I am now, So 369 00:20:54,916 --> 00:20:55,116 Speaker 1: like that. 370 00:20:55,196 --> 00:20:57,676 Speaker 3: Would it sound like or who would you be copying 371 00:20:57,716 --> 00:20:58,076 Speaker 3: back then? 372 00:20:58,676 --> 00:21:01,796 Speaker 1: Well, it sounded and like I guess I'd be copying 373 00:21:01,876 --> 00:21:06,276 Speaker 1: like it's like a mix between Stevie and then and 374 00:21:06,316 --> 00:21:11,276 Speaker 1: then maybe something folkier and rougher, But definitely yeah, not 375 00:21:11,436 --> 00:21:14,916 Speaker 1: a not a smooth voice in that moment. And and 376 00:21:15,036 --> 00:21:19,276 Speaker 1: as as it broke, I kind of found my falsetto 377 00:21:20,076 --> 00:21:24,316 Speaker 1: probably through some desire to get away from my identity 378 00:21:25,276 --> 00:21:27,836 Speaker 1: as a I think there's a there was an interesting 379 00:21:27,916 --> 00:21:33,156 Speaker 1: article about falsetto being a kind of means to to 380 00:21:33,236 --> 00:21:37,676 Speaker 1: disconnect yourself in a way, or you feel alienated already, 381 00:21:37,756 --> 00:21:45,436 Speaker 1: so you leave your regular range, and I always thought 382 00:21:45,476 --> 00:21:49,756 Speaker 1: that was quite appropriate. Rely just that's how I felt, 383 00:21:49,876 --> 00:21:51,476 Speaker 1: and maybe that's why I did it. I don't know, 384 00:21:51,836 --> 00:21:55,596 Speaker 1: but like endlessly singing in falsetto, it's not really satisfying 385 00:21:55,636 --> 00:21:58,236 Speaker 1: for listeners. I don't think. I think we need a break, 386 00:21:58,236 --> 00:22:01,516 Speaker 1: We need a range of somebody's you know, capabilities, which 387 00:22:01,596 --> 00:22:05,516 Speaker 1: is why I started to incorporate my lower range. Like actually, 388 00:22:05,516 --> 00:22:07,036 Speaker 1: a lot of people, like even in Retrogade, some of 389 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:10,116 Speaker 1: the people's favorite parts, a lot of people's favorite part 390 00:22:10,156 --> 00:22:13,636 Speaker 1: is the moment where I go alone and it's like 391 00:22:14,276 --> 00:22:15,836 Speaker 1: I dropped down to that register. 392 00:22:16,716 --> 00:22:18,196 Speaker 3: I guess it's a little surprising. 393 00:22:18,796 --> 00:22:22,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's just say like, hey, I'm here, like still, 394 00:22:22,476 --> 00:22:24,836 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not just I'm not just over here, 395 00:22:24,916 --> 00:22:29,716 Speaker 1: being this kind of kind of ghostly voice. It's like 396 00:22:29,796 --> 00:22:32,596 Speaker 1: you're reaching through the TV and saying I'm actually still, 397 00:22:33,036 --> 00:22:33,676 Speaker 1: I'm still here. 398 00:22:34,516 --> 00:22:38,396 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you mentioned that was one of I think 399 00:22:38,436 --> 00:22:42,276 Speaker 3: you said that's one of your best songs. Yeah, do 400 00:22:42,276 --> 00:22:44,196 Speaker 3: you consider it one of your best songs because it's 401 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:47,596 Speaker 3: one of the most well known songs, or what you 402 00:22:47,636 --> 00:22:50,156 Speaker 3: were setting out to do worked. 403 00:22:50,396 --> 00:22:53,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just really want it. I just I just 404 00:22:53,316 --> 00:22:57,116 Speaker 1: think I nailed it. There was no barrier between or 405 00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:00,636 Speaker 1: membrane to punch through between the idea and what and 406 00:23:00,676 --> 00:23:03,836 Speaker 1: what it ended up becoming. It just happened very fast, 407 00:23:04,596 --> 00:23:07,636 Speaker 1: very naturally, and perfectly. 408 00:23:08,716 --> 00:23:11,276 Speaker 3: When some like that happens so perfectly, do you try 409 00:23:11,316 --> 00:23:15,876 Speaker 3: and recreate the conditions, like almost like a baseball player 410 00:23:15,916 --> 00:23:18,996 Speaker 3: who will always wear the same batting helmet or never 411 00:23:19,196 --> 00:23:22,756 Speaker 3: washed the jersey. Did you go through something similar? 412 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:26,356 Speaker 1: I know people that do that. No, No, I didn't. 413 00:23:26,996 --> 00:23:29,956 Speaker 1: I've always accepted that will never happen again. What we 414 00:23:29,996 --> 00:23:33,556 Speaker 1: are chasing, when we chase that moment, isn't the song itself. 415 00:23:33,676 --> 00:23:36,396 Speaker 1: It's it's the feeling of being on your path. It's 416 00:23:36,396 --> 00:23:40,636 Speaker 1: the feeling of being of channeling and being in the state, 417 00:23:40,876 --> 00:23:42,796 Speaker 1: being in the flow state. And in order to create 418 00:23:42,836 --> 00:23:46,196 Speaker 1: a flow state. I've seen artists do lots of different things. 419 00:23:46,236 --> 00:23:50,156 Speaker 1: I mean, one of my friends, Monica Martin's, who I 420 00:23:50,156 --> 00:23:54,276 Speaker 1: think is just a generational talent, Like I think she's 421 00:23:54,756 --> 00:23:57,756 Speaker 1: she's my favorite singer really, she just likes a candle. 422 00:23:57,796 --> 00:24:00,436 Speaker 1: Every time she comes to the studio, wherever she is, 423 00:24:00,476 --> 00:24:03,676 Speaker 1: she'll just light a candle. And I always I don't 424 00:24:03,716 --> 00:24:07,076 Speaker 1: know if it's if it helps her kind of tune in, 425 00:24:07,516 --> 00:24:10,956 Speaker 1: but it helps me chein in. A candle really helps. 426 00:24:11,116 --> 00:24:13,236 Speaker 1: It's something that a lot of spiritual people talk about 427 00:24:13,436 --> 00:24:17,916 Speaker 1: as you know, helpful to kind of clear the energies 428 00:24:17,956 --> 00:24:20,036 Speaker 1: of the room or whatever. But whatever it is, I mean, 429 00:24:20,556 --> 00:24:23,356 Speaker 1: I'm always I'm always a kind of proponent of what works. 430 00:24:23,916 --> 00:24:25,676 Speaker 1: So that's the thing that works for you, then that's 431 00:24:25,676 --> 00:24:28,116 Speaker 1: what you've got to do. But yeah, like I don't 432 00:24:28,116 --> 00:24:31,396 Speaker 1: want to recreate the conditions even of retrograde. What I 433 00:24:31,436 --> 00:24:37,236 Speaker 1: want to do is basically shield myself from all of 434 00:24:37,276 --> 00:24:42,356 Speaker 1: the distracting factors. And I mean the phone is a 435 00:24:42,356 --> 00:24:45,316 Speaker 1: good example. You know. It's like I can't be creative 436 00:24:45,356 --> 00:24:47,036 Speaker 1: if I'm on if I've got a ten hour a 437 00:24:47,116 --> 00:24:51,196 Speaker 1: day screen time, like I have to be. It has 438 00:24:51,236 --> 00:24:54,516 Speaker 1: to be like two or lower, or maybe none at all, 439 00:24:54,876 --> 00:24:57,276 Speaker 1: and then I would really I can really tune in. 440 00:24:58,636 --> 00:25:00,356 Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break and then come 441 00:25:00,396 --> 00:25:07,836 Speaker 2: back with more from Leo Rose and James Blake. We're 442 00:25:07,876 --> 00:25:10,796 Speaker 2: back with more from Leo Rose and James. 443 00:25:10,556 --> 00:25:14,996 Speaker 3: Blake the New album. When you started making this album, 444 00:25:15,076 --> 00:25:17,476 Speaker 3: people are saying that it's, you know, you going back 445 00:25:17,516 --> 00:25:22,156 Speaker 3: to your roots in a way. Is it feel more 446 00:25:22,196 --> 00:25:27,556 Speaker 3: exciting and maybe a bit easier to make an album 447 00:25:27,716 --> 00:25:30,876 Speaker 3: that's more dance music based. It's not completely dance music 448 00:25:30,916 --> 00:25:33,876 Speaker 3: based at all, but yeah, is that almost an easier 449 00:25:33,916 --> 00:25:34,596 Speaker 3: task for you? 450 00:25:35,556 --> 00:25:38,916 Speaker 1: Honestly, yeah, it is. It's funny. I was, I was 451 00:25:38,956 --> 00:25:43,796 Speaker 1: playing Briany know the record, and we videoed his reactions 452 00:25:43,996 --> 00:25:46,516 Speaker 1: as well, and we're putting out sort of little clips 453 00:25:47,156 --> 00:25:50,796 Speaker 1: here and there, and I said to him at one point, 454 00:25:50,796 --> 00:25:52,196 Speaker 1: I was like, I was going to play some of 455 00:25:52,196 --> 00:25:54,636 Speaker 1: the more ambient side of things, but I guess you 456 00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:58,876 Speaker 1: listened to ambient music all day, don't you? And he goes, James, 457 00:25:58,956 --> 00:26:05,436 Speaker 1: I shit it, I shit ambient music. And it's kind 458 00:26:05,436 --> 00:26:09,956 Speaker 1: of like that with you know, when I'm trying when 459 00:26:09,956 --> 00:26:12,196 Speaker 1: I'm trying to aim at song you know, songwriting as 460 00:26:12,276 --> 00:26:17,036 Speaker 1: like the first, like the principal aim of the project, 461 00:26:17,036 --> 00:26:21,196 Speaker 1: it's like it's tough. It's really really daunting and tough, 462 00:26:21,236 --> 00:26:25,796 Speaker 1: and I'm entering into a kind of category of you know, 463 00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:31,036 Speaker 1: some unbelievable songs and I on the occasion can rise to 464 00:26:31,076 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 1: that challenge, but it just doesn't. It's not my most 465 00:26:34,316 --> 00:26:37,196 Speaker 1: natural state. And actually Rick mentioned he goes, I think 466 00:26:37,236 --> 00:26:41,076 Speaker 1: your best when you're doing collages. Yeah, and he was like, 467 00:26:41,316 --> 00:26:44,796 Speaker 1: you're a good songwriter, but you're not not yet you 468 00:26:44,836 --> 00:26:46,636 Speaker 1: can be. Basically what he was trying to say was 469 00:26:46,676 --> 00:26:50,636 Speaker 1: it you can do it whichever way you want. I'll 470 00:26:50,636 --> 00:26:54,036 Speaker 1: tell you where you really shine. Yeah. And I think 471 00:26:54,116 --> 00:26:56,676 Speaker 1: that's kind of one of his strengths as a producer 472 00:26:56,796 --> 00:26:59,276 Speaker 1: is the fact that he, you know some I've heard 473 00:26:59,316 --> 00:27:01,836 Speaker 1: some criticism of him about you know him he doesn't 474 00:27:01,916 --> 00:27:05,556 Speaker 1: like you know, because he's hands off, right, So a 475 00:27:05,556 --> 00:27:07,276 Speaker 1: lot of people will go to a producer and they think, well, 476 00:27:07,276 --> 00:27:10,676 Speaker 1: why is he just sitting there on the buttons, Like 477 00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:14,156 Speaker 1: why is he not like playing anything or you know, 478 00:27:14,276 --> 00:27:19,276 Speaker 1: arranging stuff. And the thing that I think is one 479 00:27:19,316 --> 00:27:23,116 Speaker 1: of the most effective of strength of Rick is that 480 00:27:23,196 --> 00:27:28,356 Speaker 1: he will he can identify if you're resonating at your strongest, 481 00:27:29,876 --> 00:27:33,756 Speaker 1: and he can also identify when you're not. And the 482 00:27:33,836 --> 00:27:37,076 Speaker 1: thing that most artists don't want to be told in 483 00:27:37,116 --> 00:27:40,036 Speaker 1: the creative process is that they're not resonating at their strongest. 484 00:27:40,756 --> 00:27:44,836 Speaker 1: It creates some bitterness, I think, to acknowledge that you're 485 00:27:44,836 --> 00:27:47,156 Speaker 1: not actually doing what's natural to you, or that you're 486 00:27:47,196 --> 00:27:50,876 Speaker 1: not creating the best scenario, you know, the best scenario 487 00:27:50,956 --> 00:27:54,676 Speaker 1: for your flow state. And I think Rick's right in 488 00:27:55,116 --> 00:27:57,876 Speaker 1: some way that when I'm attempting to write a kind 489 00:27:57,876 --> 00:28:02,876 Speaker 1: of straighter song, I find it hard to you know, 490 00:28:03,036 --> 00:28:05,236 Speaker 1: there are moments where I can truly channel it, but 491 00:28:05,796 --> 00:28:09,036 Speaker 1: sometimes it can feel more like an exercise and it's hard. 492 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:11,636 Speaker 1: It's harder for me. It's a skill I learned recently 493 00:28:11,876 --> 00:28:16,396 Speaker 1: rather than and so, yeah, the collage is something that 494 00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:19,876 Speaker 1: I understand deeply, and I've always done it, and I've 495 00:28:20,196 --> 00:28:22,076 Speaker 1: always been able to take a motif and kind of 496 00:28:22,076 --> 00:28:24,396 Speaker 1: build a whole thing a world around it, and make 497 00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:26,796 Speaker 1: that world change and make that world evolve. 498 00:28:27,356 --> 00:28:28,796 Speaker 3: And that's where the editing comes in. 499 00:28:29,196 --> 00:28:30,996 Speaker 1: That's where the editing comes in, and that's where That's 500 00:28:31,116 --> 00:28:33,516 Speaker 1: kind of where Loading's at, and that's where tell Me's at, 501 00:28:33,556 --> 00:28:36,636 Speaker 1: and that's where all these other tracks on this album 502 00:28:36,916 --> 00:28:41,716 Speaker 1: kind of And because I naturally I can tap into 503 00:28:41,796 --> 00:28:44,596 Speaker 1: dance music from a very natural place, because I've been 504 00:28:44,596 --> 00:28:48,876 Speaker 1: doing it since i was nineteen or whatever. The alchemy 505 00:28:48,956 --> 00:28:53,436 Speaker 1: is just quicker. Yeah, So yeah, that's I think this 506 00:28:53,556 --> 00:28:56,596 Speaker 1: album is. What's nice about it is that I don't 507 00:28:57,116 --> 00:28:59,796 Speaker 1: there's not a single skill that I needed to acquire 508 00:29:00,316 --> 00:29:02,596 Speaker 1: over the course of making it. To make this album. 509 00:29:02,916 --> 00:29:06,116 Speaker 1: It was all there already and I just tapped into 510 00:29:06,236 --> 00:29:10,276 Speaker 1: what I knew. And I think the only thing is 511 00:29:10,316 --> 00:29:13,316 Speaker 1: I just haven't shown people this kind of music that 512 00:29:13,356 --> 00:29:16,076 Speaker 1: I've been making for many years. 513 00:29:16,956 --> 00:29:19,476 Speaker 3: I think your fans are really excited about it. I've 514 00:29:19,476 --> 00:29:23,276 Speaker 3: read some really sweet comments and people are saying, oh, James, 515 00:29:23,356 --> 00:29:29,836 Speaker 3: is weird again. He especially with the first single that 516 00:29:29,876 --> 00:29:32,596 Speaker 3: you put out, Big Hammer, people just were like losing 517 00:29:32,596 --> 00:29:34,876 Speaker 3: their mind over this song. Why did you decide to 518 00:29:34,876 --> 00:29:35,916 Speaker 3: put that song out first? 519 00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:41,276 Speaker 1: Well, firstly, I've been weird for the whole time. I mean, 520 00:29:42,276 --> 00:29:45,476 Speaker 1: even the more straight ahead stuff I've done, by comparison 521 00:29:45,476 --> 00:29:49,076 Speaker 1: to other music is very often there's always something a 522 00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:53,316 Speaker 1: little bit odd about it. It's outside a material either way. 523 00:29:54,156 --> 00:29:56,116 Speaker 1: Even as much as I've tried to kind of like 524 00:29:56,716 --> 00:29:59,996 Speaker 1: Trojan Horse my way into pop music, it's it's not really. 525 00:30:01,396 --> 00:30:04,876 Speaker 1: It seems like I'm never really seen as part of 526 00:30:04,916 --> 00:30:10,556 Speaker 1: the crowd of you know, the I don't know. 527 00:30:10,876 --> 00:30:13,316 Speaker 3: The crowd is tapping you to work with them. 528 00:30:13,396 --> 00:30:16,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's it's like again, it's that kind of 529 00:30:16,836 --> 00:30:19,156 Speaker 1: compost thing, isn't it. It's like I'm not I'm just not. 530 00:30:19,676 --> 00:30:23,556 Speaker 1: I'm not one of them. I'm not the I don't know. 531 00:30:23,796 --> 00:30:26,036 Speaker 3: It's like you're not Britney. 532 00:30:29,156 --> 00:30:31,356 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, like you. It's like when I went 533 00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:34,236 Speaker 1: on I was looking at Apple TV one night. I 534 00:30:34,276 --> 00:30:37,036 Speaker 1: was like, oh, they've got a YouTube, like a music sorry, 535 00:30:37,076 --> 00:30:39,716 Speaker 1: music video channel, right, So I went on this music 536 00:30:39,796 --> 00:30:42,396 Speaker 1: video channel on Apple TV and I looked at the 537 00:30:42,436 --> 00:30:46,276 Speaker 1: music videos and I was like, oh, yeah, that's what 538 00:30:46,596 --> 00:30:51,036 Speaker 1: like modern pop music is, and fair play like fair 539 00:30:51,076 --> 00:30:53,756 Speaker 1: play to them, and there's some amazing stuff here. But 540 00:30:54,436 --> 00:30:56,916 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't do that. I can do my 541 00:30:56,956 --> 00:30:59,556 Speaker 1: own thing, but I can't. I can't be something I'm 542 00:30:59,556 --> 00:31:03,116 Speaker 1: not and my I don't know, I'm a weird guy. 543 00:31:03,676 --> 00:31:05,916 Speaker 1: In some ways, my career has been like a push 544 00:31:05,956 --> 00:31:08,636 Speaker 1: and pull of like do I want to be accepted 545 00:31:08,676 --> 00:31:12,876 Speaker 1: in that kind a central position or that's never what's 546 00:31:13,116 --> 00:31:14,716 Speaker 1: going to be and why would I even want to 547 00:31:14,756 --> 00:31:18,476 Speaker 1: be that? Yeah, because what I do is something else 548 00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:21,156 Speaker 1: and it's okay and that's kind of what say what 549 00:31:21,196 --> 00:31:24,916 Speaker 1: you Will was about. And what Rick identified was that 550 00:31:25,156 --> 00:31:29,436 Speaker 1: it's like do your thing, like not just not exactly 551 00:31:29,436 --> 00:31:32,636 Speaker 1: stay in your lane, but like but remember what it 552 00:31:32,716 --> 00:31:38,396 Speaker 1: is that you you have the most unique perspective on. Yeah, 553 00:31:38,476 --> 00:31:39,996 Speaker 1: and that's that was powerful. 554 00:31:40,476 --> 00:31:42,676 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like he you know, he does get the criticism 555 00:31:42,676 --> 00:31:44,956 Speaker 3: that he's a hands off producer, but what he told 556 00:31:44,996 --> 00:31:47,476 Speaker 3: you is like a big picture overview that is so 557 00:31:47,676 --> 00:31:51,516 Speaker 3: incredibly valuable that that could now become your north star. 558 00:31:52,956 --> 00:31:55,996 Speaker 3: And what else is the producer supposed to do except 559 00:31:56,076 --> 00:31:56,596 Speaker 3: guide you? 560 00:31:56,956 --> 00:31:58,796 Speaker 1: I mean, in my opinion, a producer is supposed to 561 00:31:58,836 --> 00:32:01,556 Speaker 1: change your life. I mean it's yeah, we can make 562 00:32:01,596 --> 00:32:04,076 Speaker 1: a beat, like I can make I can make someone 563 00:32:04,116 --> 00:32:08,276 Speaker 1: a beat. But the most successful sessions I've ever had 564 00:32:09,356 --> 00:32:15,996 Speaker 1: with people, I've given them something that enables them to 565 00:32:16,036 --> 00:32:20,036 Speaker 1: finish the record or like enables them to kind of 566 00:32:20,076 --> 00:32:22,396 Speaker 1: look at a certain song in a certain way, or 567 00:32:23,356 --> 00:32:27,276 Speaker 1: be confident in something that they that they previously didn't 568 00:32:27,756 --> 00:32:31,596 Speaker 1: back because they couldn't back themselves because people were telling 569 00:32:31,636 --> 00:32:34,436 Speaker 1: them that that song, you know, it's not this or 570 00:32:34,436 --> 00:32:36,916 Speaker 1: it's not that, but it's like, but it's me, and 571 00:32:36,956 --> 00:32:41,036 Speaker 1: it's like I don't really necessarily make people hit songs. 572 00:32:41,236 --> 00:32:43,396 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't, like, I don't think I have 573 00:32:43,796 --> 00:32:46,356 Speaker 1: made anyone any hit songs. But what I do is 574 00:32:46,436 --> 00:32:49,236 Speaker 1: in the studio is I encourage people to be them. 575 00:32:50,036 --> 00:32:52,796 Speaker 1: And I think that that is something that actually a 576 00:32:52,836 --> 00:32:57,996 Speaker 1: lot of people in the mainstream don't often hear. You know. 577 00:32:58,076 --> 00:33:01,356 Speaker 1: It's like because there are there are bigger there are 578 00:33:01,356 --> 00:33:04,516 Speaker 1: bigger incentives, and there's more jeopardy, and there's more there's 579 00:33:04,596 --> 00:33:07,196 Speaker 1: kind of like there's more reason to play it safe. 580 00:33:08,036 --> 00:33:13,396 Speaker 1: And I'm not really interested in the market per se. 581 00:33:13,476 --> 00:33:18,196 Speaker 1: I'm interested in somebody's growth as a person. Like I 582 00:33:18,236 --> 00:33:20,636 Speaker 1: want them to be become their full self. I want 583 00:33:20,676 --> 00:33:24,036 Speaker 1: them to be truly happy with what they've made, and 584 00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:26,636 Speaker 1: I want them to come back to me a year 585 00:33:26,716 --> 00:33:29,116 Speaker 1: later and say, I'm glad you said that thing, because 586 00:33:29,996 --> 00:33:33,196 Speaker 1: like this has happened, and I'm really glad we stuck 587 00:33:33,236 --> 00:33:35,876 Speaker 1: with that single, that that chune is the single rather 588 00:33:35,876 --> 00:33:37,676 Speaker 1: than this other one, because that's the one I love 589 00:33:37,716 --> 00:33:40,116 Speaker 1: the most, for example. You know, that's the kind of 590 00:33:40,156 --> 00:33:42,636 Speaker 1: shit that I like, I'm not really if someone says, 591 00:33:42,636 --> 00:33:44,156 Speaker 1: oh I love this beat you made on this track, 592 00:33:44,156 --> 00:33:45,516 Speaker 1: it's like it doesn't really do much for me, to 593 00:33:45,556 --> 00:33:49,596 Speaker 1: be honest, I love making beats and I love making music, 594 00:33:49,676 --> 00:33:52,036 Speaker 1: but I've made so much at this point that that's 595 00:33:52,076 --> 00:33:55,916 Speaker 1: not like it doesn't move me the same way. 596 00:33:56,756 --> 00:34:00,756 Speaker 3: You speaking of people who are who feel like they're 597 00:34:00,876 --> 00:34:05,236 Speaker 3: just themselves and just really someone who seems from the 598 00:34:05,236 --> 00:34:07,796 Speaker 3: outside like a creative genius. I was curious what it 599 00:34:07,836 --> 00:34:10,916 Speaker 3: was like working with Rosalie amazing. 600 00:34:11,236 --> 00:34:13,756 Speaker 1: She's a force of nature and she was from the 601 00:34:13,756 --> 00:34:15,276 Speaker 1: moment I met her, I knew she was a false 602 00:34:15,396 --> 00:34:17,716 Speaker 1: nature and I knew she was going to be going 603 00:34:17,756 --> 00:34:22,076 Speaker 1: to be huge, and she's so professional. She just came 604 00:34:22,116 --> 00:34:26,396 Speaker 1: in and just nailed it, like really fast, dialed into 605 00:34:26,436 --> 00:34:31,916 Speaker 1: what the tune needed immediately, and her verse happened really 606 00:34:31,996 --> 00:34:35,596 Speaker 1: quickly on Barefoot in the Park that was yeah, And 607 00:34:35,636 --> 00:34:39,076 Speaker 1: we just immediately sounded great together on when we were 608 00:34:39,076 --> 00:34:42,356 Speaker 1: doing harmonies and stuff, and it just felt magic. Yeah. 609 00:34:42,436 --> 00:34:44,476 Speaker 1: I really liked her. I just liked her straight away. 610 00:34:44,516 --> 00:34:48,116 Speaker 1: She was just pleasant. She was just so like it's 611 00:34:48,196 --> 00:34:52,636 Speaker 1: very rare that you meet someone who is that driven 612 00:34:52,956 --> 00:34:56,356 Speaker 1: and that talented and has that kind of voice who 613 00:34:56,436 --> 00:35:03,596 Speaker 1: is also sweet and like kind but also knows exactly 614 00:35:03,636 --> 00:35:07,516 Speaker 1: what they want and knows how to say what they want. Wow, 615 00:35:07,756 --> 00:35:10,916 Speaker 1: and is isn't going to do something if they're not 616 00:35:11,876 --> 00:35:15,956 Speaker 1: completely happy. That's a very rare proposition. I think that's 617 00:35:15,956 --> 00:35:20,876 Speaker 1: why she got taken so seriously so quickly, because everyone 618 00:35:20,916 --> 00:35:23,836 Speaker 1: and she would have entered the studio with would have 619 00:35:23,876 --> 00:35:26,636 Speaker 1: felt the same thing. And it's like, there are some 620 00:35:26,676 --> 00:35:31,676 Speaker 1: people who who you meet who as you're working with them, 621 00:35:31,716 --> 00:35:35,676 Speaker 1: you realize that this is a step and I don't 622 00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:38,356 Speaker 1: mean that in a negative way, but that that you're 623 00:35:38,396 --> 00:35:43,756 Speaker 1: witnessing there. They're they're going somewhere and you're lucky to 624 00:35:43,756 --> 00:35:45,956 Speaker 1: have met them in that moment. That's that's how it felt. 625 00:35:46,396 --> 00:35:49,236 Speaker 3: But it's like early days as far as their artistic development. 626 00:35:49,756 --> 00:35:52,156 Speaker 1: Yeah, because that was when I met her. It was 627 00:35:52,596 --> 00:35:59,276 Speaker 1: just after she'd released Los Angeles and then I think 628 00:35:59,436 --> 00:36:03,636 Speaker 1: she was working on I think Malamente was on the runway, 629 00:36:03,676 --> 00:36:06,396 Speaker 1: but like hadn't come out yet and she was working 630 00:36:06,436 --> 00:36:12,996 Speaker 1: on her next record, and I was just in love 631 00:36:13,116 --> 00:36:16,876 Speaker 1: with the Los Angeles record. Yeah, And I hadn't heard 632 00:36:17,356 --> 00:36:19,756 Speaker 1: a voice like that that had moved me as much 633 00:36:19,796 --> 00:36:22,996 Speaker 1: as that for years and years and years and years 634 00:36:22,996 --> 00:36:26,516 Speaker 1: and years, maybe not since bon ever And Joni and 635 00:36:27,076 --> 00:36:30,236 Speaker 1: you know, but certainly to meet someone new who could 636 00:36:30,556 --> 00:36:33,796 Speaker 1: evoke that kind of emotion in their voice, I mean, 637 00:36:33,836 --> 00:36:38,076 Speaker 1: that's really special and I just felt very lucky to 638 00:36:38,116 --> 00:36:38,756 Speaker 1: have matter. Really. 639 00:36:39,716 --> 00:36:43,516 Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about the song if 640 00:36:43,556 --> 00:36:47,276 Speaker 3: you Can hear Me on the new album. There's a 641 00:36:47,316 --> 00:36:50,836 Speaker 3: line in there, Dad, if you can hear Me. Where 642 00:36:50,836 --> 00:36:53,116 Speaker 3: did the song come from? What's the inspiration for the song? 643 00:36:53,196 --> 00:36:56,676 Speaker 1: The inspiration for the song was that I was one 644 00:36:56,716 --> 00:37:00,516 Speaker 1: of the composers in contention for working on their movie 645 00:37:00,556 --> 00:37:06,036 Speaker 1: ad Astra, which Brad Pitt is in, and so they 646 00:37:06,076 --> 00:37:08,956 Speaker 1: ended up going with like a more traditional classical sort 647 00:37:08,956 --> 00:37:12,716 Speaker 1: of angled composer, but one of the things. 648 00:37:14,556 --> 00:37:17,636 Speaker 3: They take a chance on it no. 649 00:37:18,116 --> 00:37:20,156 Speaker 1: I think actually in the end when I heard it, 650 00:37:20,196 --> 00:37:22,556 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But anyway, 651 00:37:22,636 --> 00:37:27,076 Speaker 1: so I wrote the piano part too, if you can 652 00:37:27,116 --> 00:37:29,836 Speaker 1: hear Me. It was just a It was a sample 653 00:37:29,836 --> 00:37:33,756 Speaker 1: of me playing piano that Dom had cut together into 654 00:37:33,756 --> 00:37:37,316 Speaker 1: a loop, and I just lay it out and then 655 00:37:37,676 --> 00:37:40,596 Speaker 1: started humming over the top of it, and it really 656 00:37:41,796 --> 00:37:47,316 Speaker 1: just immediately felt very emotional, and it was one of 657 00:37:47,716 --> 00:37:51,076 Speaker 1: mine and Dom's favorite pieces that we'd ever done together, 658 00:37:51,196 --> 00:37:53,476 Speaker 1: like just for ages. We always came back to it 659 00:37:53,516 --> 00:37:54,716 Speaker 1: and we're like, what should we do with this? What 660 00:37:54,716 --> 00:37:57,596 Speaker 1: are we going to do with this? And as I 661 00:37:57,716 --> 00:38:00,396 Speaker 1: was sort of making this album, it just came back 662 00:38:00,436 --> 00:38:01,716 Speaker 1: to me and I was like, I've got to do 663 00:38:01,756 --> 00:38:04,596 Speaker 1: something with this. And I had this idea for a 664 00:38:04,676 --> 00:38:08,956 Speaker 1: song and I just tailored it to the way this. 665 00:38:09,556 --> 00:38:11,356 Speaker 1: But you know, I only really, I think I had 666 00:38:11,396 --> 00:38:13,836 Speaker 1: a couple of lyrics from it. I didn't have a 667 00:38:13,876 --> 00:38:18,436 Speaker 1: whole song. It came that all came to me while 668 00:38:18,476 --> 00:38:19,036 Speaker 1: recording it. 669 00:38:19,076 --> 00:38:21,836 Speaker 3: Really I took it very literally, as if you were 670 00:38:22,156 --> 00:38:23,596 Speaker 3: sending a message to your dad. 671 00:38:24,116 --> 00:38:27,396 Speaker 1: Well, it's like in the movie, so I should probably explain. 672 00:38:27,436 --> 00:38:31,156 Speaker 1: The movie has a scene in it where Brad's character 673 00:38:32,076 --> 00:38:35,236 Speaker 1: is communicating with his dad for the first time in years, 674 00:38:35,556 --> 00:38:39,116 Speaker 1: and his dad's actually in space. His dad's in some 675 00:38:39,356 --> 00:38:42,356 Speaker 1: corner of space that no one can get to, and 676 00:38:42,396 --> 00:38:45,316 Speaker 1: they've managed to find a way of communicating with him 677 00:38:45,676 --> 00:38:49,836 Speaker 1: via some kind of satellite phone thing, and it's just 678 00:38:49,876 --> 00:38:52,356 Speaker 1: a very emotional scene. But to me, it felt like 679 00:38:52,356 --> 00:38:57,036 Speaker 1: a kind of a metaphor, you know, for having gone 680 00:38:57,036 --> 00:39:01,156 Speaker 1: and as every father son relationship is, you know, the 681 00:39:01,196 --> 00:39:02,756 Speaker 1: son has to go off and do their own thing, 682 00:39:02,836 --> 00:39:08,636 Speaker 1: and yeah, hopefully carve their own path, but ultimately the 683 00:39:08,756 --> 00:39:11,956 Speaker 1: tender And see, what we don't realize is we're making 684 00:39:11,996 --> 00:39:15,236 Speaker 1: the same mistakes and also having the same successes in 685 00:39:15,276 --> 00:39:18,476 Speaker 1: some ways as our father a lot of the time, 686 00:39:18,556 --> 00:39:21,276 Speaker 1: and don't realize how much we're repeating history. 687 00:39:22,316 --> 00:39:24,316 Speaker 3: Do you think that's because of the story you've been 688 00:39:24,356 --> 00:39:25,356 Speaker 3: told growing up? 689 00:39:26,436 --> 00:39:28,916 Speaker 1: I think so, yeah, And I think, like him being 690 00:39:28,916 --> 00:39:30,876 Speaker 1: such a big figure in my life, I just looked 691 00:39:30,956 --> 00:39:32,836 Speaker 1: up to him and still look up to him so much, 692 00:39:32,876 --> 00:39:36,676 Speaker 1: and I think that, you know, he was my inspiration 693 00:39:36,996 --> 00:39:40,596 Speaker 1: for making music and getting into music, and he was 694 00:39:40,636 --> 00:39:43,316 Speaker 1: also my guide when it came to who not to 695 00:39:43,316 --> 00:39:46,956 Speaker 1: trust and when to trust in terms of the industry 696 00:39:46,996 --> 00:39:51,276 Speaker 1: and like preserving myself. And you know, he's never tried 697 00:39:51,316 --> 00:39:53,556 Speaker 1: to vicariously live through me. You know, he's always been 698 00:39:53,596 --> 00:39:57,516 Speaker 1: someone who does his own thing really fucking well, and 699 00:39:57,556 --> 00:40:01,396 Speaker 1: I do my own thing. And we talk about each 700 00:40:01,436 --> 00:40:04,436 Speaker 1: other's music and we you know, he sends me stuff 701 00:40:04,476 --> 00:40:07,276 Speaker 1: he's doing us and him stuff I'm doing, and it's lovely. 702 00:40:07,356 --> 00:40:09,276 Speaker 1: But like, you know, one of my biggest songs was 703 00:40:09,316 --> 00:40:12,916 Speaker 1: his song The Wilhelm Scream. He wrote it oh, so 704 00:40:12,956 --> 00:40:15,196 Speaker 1: he was. Yeah, he wrote a song called Where to Turn, 705 00:40:15,236 --> 00:40:17,876 Speaker 1: which was one of my favorite songs growing up, and 706 00:40:17,956 --> 00:40:21,876 Speaker 1: I basically covered it. I interpolated, I took like one 707 00:40:21,916 --> 00:40:25,156 Speaker 1: of the lyrics from it and kind of repeated them, 708 00:40:25,676 --> 00:40:29,796 Speaker 1: and yeah, I guess the song is about you know, 709 00:40:29,796 --> 00:40:32,156 Speaker 1: there's lyrics in it that are sad, and there are 710 00:40:32,236 --> 00:40:36,196 Speaker 1: lyrics in it that are and reflective. You know, for example, 711 00:40:36,236 --> 00:40:38,996 Speaker 1: the we speak less than i'd like. I don't know 712 00:40:39,036 --> 00:40:42,116 Speaker 1: how I grew away from the vine. You know, lots 713 00:40:42,156 --> 00:40:45,676 Speaker 1: of kind of things that I'd love him to in 714 00:40:45,716 --> 00:40:48,596 Speaker 1: a way harder to say in person than they are 715 00:40:48,596 --> 00:40:51,556 Speaker 1: in a song. In some ways. You know, we talked 716 00:40:51,596 --> 00:40:55,716 Speaker 1: so much about our lives, respectively, and so he knows 717 00:40:55,756 --> 00:40:58,916 Speaker 1: everything that he knows what I feel, and I know 718 00:40:58,956 --> 00:41:01,876 Speaker 1: what he feels, and it's great and I and that's 719 00:41:01,876 --> 00:41:03,756 Speaker 1: why I felt safe to write a song like that. 720 00:41:04,236 --> 00:41:08,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, have you thought about if you would want to 721 00:41:08,196 --> 00:41:08,636 Speaker 3: be a father? 722 00:41:10,956 --> 00:41:13,516 Speaker 1: I have thought about it, but I honestly don't think 723 00:41:13,556 --> 00:41:18,476 Speaker 1: I will, because if I'm going to give up sixty 724 00:41:18,476 --> 00:41:20,996 Speaker 1: percent or seventy percent of my life, I'm not sure 725 00:41:21,236 --> 00:41:25,116 Speaker 1: which sixty or seventy percent is going to be and 726 00:41:25,956 --> 00:41:30,276 Speaker 1: I'm so involved in my music and my friendships and 727 00:41:30,316 --> 00:41:34,356 Speaker 1: my relationship that something's going to have to give. And 728 00:41:34,396 --> 00:41:37,436 Speaker 1: I think in a lot cases people often feel pressured 729 00:41:37,476 --> 00:41:41,356 Speaker 1: into giving up some or all of those, yeah, in 730 00:41:41,436 --> 00:41:42,876 Speaker 1: order to have a child. And I just don't know 731 00:41:42,916 --> 00:41:48,196 Speaker 1: if I I think it would make me resent them. 732 00:41:48,316 --> 00:41:52,316 Speaker 3: That feels like a very mature decision, and a decision 733 00:41:52,356 --> 00:41:54,356 Speaker 3: that comes from a place of really knowing yourself. 734 00:41:55,916 --> 00:41:59,196 Speaker 1: I guess I've also not heard a single positive thing 735 00:41:59,316 --> 00:42:05,036 Speaker 1: from any parent that I know about having children, really 736 00:42:05,156 --> 00:42:07,356 Speaker 1: not really. I mean I've heard some, you know, things 737 00:42:07,396 --> 00:42:11,276 Speaker 1: that seem like consolations, but nothing that made me go, oh, 738 00:42:11,316 --> 00:42:12,396 Speaker 1: that sounds great. 739 00:42:13,156 --> 00:42:15,556 Speaker 3: What about talking to your own parents about now that 740 00:42:15,636 --> 00:42:19,276 Speaker 3: obviously their child is grown. Yeah, well, if I have 741 00:42:19,316 --> 00:42:21,596 Speaker 3: some positive things to say, yeah. 742 00:42:21,396 --> 00:42:26,196 Speaker 1: They do. But also our relationship is not necessarily my 743 00:42:26,316 --> 00:42:29,116 Speaker 1: relationship with my child, you know. And so even if 744 00:42:29,156 --> 00:42:33,236 Speaker 1: it's you know, I had a loving, loving parents who, 745 00:42:33,596 --> 00:42:37,076 Speaker 1: like every parent, makes mistakes and you have to heal 746 00:42:37,116 --> 00:42:39,396 Speaker 1: them and then you and then hopefully at a certain 747 00:42:39,436 --> 00:42:45,396 Speaker 1: age you become mates, you know. But like I'm someone 748 00:42:45,476 --> 00:42:50,356 Speaker 1: who sort of has hyper focus. My dad does too, 749 00:42:50,916 --> 00:42:54,676 Speaker 1: and I think that my version of hyper focus doesn't 750 00:42:54,716 --> 00:42:58,916 Speaker 1: really allow for much more than like a committed relationship 751 00:42:59,116 --> 00:43:03,716 Speaker 1: and friends to be outside of it. Like I find 752 00:43:03,756 --> 00:43:06,956 Speaker 1: it hard enough to have dogs, honestly, Like I worry 753 00:43:07,156 --> 00:43:10,956 Speaker 1: sometimes that I'm not being enough for giving them enough 754 00:43:10,996 --> 00:43:14,836 Speaker 1: of my time, and I try, and I have a 755 00:43:14,876 --> 00:43:17,836 Speaker 1: great relationship with my dogs. But I just if that's 756 00:43:18,196 --> 00:43:20,196 Speaker 1: how hard that is, then I can't even imagine what 757 00:43:20,196 --> 00:43:22,916 Speaker 1: it's like having kids. And I, yeah, I guess I'm 758 00:43:22,956 --> 00:43:27,516 Speaker 1: realistic about that. And I also would kind of consider 759 00:43:27,556 --> 00:43:31,556 Speaker 1: myself a spiritual person now. And I don't know, I'm 760 00:43:31,556 --> 00:43:35,516 Speaker 1: not one hundred percent sure that our biological family is 761 00:43:35,596 --> 00:43:39,196 Speaker 1: our only family, you know, and in fact, if our 762 00:43:39,196 --> 00:43:45,316 Speaker 1: biological family is our family, you know, like so many 763 00:43:45,356 --> 00:43:49,636 Speaker 1: people have a chosen family and the idea of legacy 764 00:43:50,236 --> 00:43:52,356 Speaker 1: of you know, continuing the bloodline and stuff like that, 765 00:43:52,396 --> 00:43:55,796 Speaker 1: I just don't really resonate too much with that. Yeah, 766 00:43:56,156 --> 00:43:58,076 Speaker 1: Like the same way I don't really resonate with, like 767 00:43:58,196 --> 00:44:01,996 Speaker 1: hugely with nationality. And I'm not sure if I resonate 768 00:44:02,076 --> 00:44:05,876 Speaker 1: necessarily with children that much either, Like whenever I meet kids, 769 00:44:05,916 --> 00:44:08,156 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is fun for like a while, 770 00:44:09,276 --> 00:44:11,636 Speaker 1: but I'm never like, oh, that's made me really want 771 00:44:11,636 --> 00:44:15,276 Speaker 1: to have children now, Like I just right, it feels 772 00:44:15,276 --> 00:44:15,916 Speaker 1: like a lot. 773 00:44:16,036 --> 00:44:20,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because it seems 774 00:44:20,196 --> 00:44:22,996 Speaker 3: like you've gotten You're talking about how your dad has 775 00:44:23,036 --> 00:44:26,276 Speaker 3: been a role model and he's sort of taught you 776 00:44:26,356 --> 00:44:29,556 Speaker 3: so much about the world that you're in, about your 777 00:44:29,636 --> 00:44:35,516 Speaker 3: artistic world, because that is such an important foundational relationship 778 00:44:35,516 --> 00:44:39,876 Speaker 3: in your life that I don't know, there wouldn't be 779 00:44:40,636 --> 00:44:44,196 Speaker 3: a desire to maybe guide somebody else in that way. 780 00:44:44,276 --> 00:44:47,036 Speaker 3: But you can do that with chosen family as well. 781 00:44:47,156 --> 00:44:49,676 Speaker 1: I do that all the time. I mean, like, I'm 782 00:44:49,716 --> 00:44:52,956 Speaker 1: that kind of person to other people. Even in music. 783 00:44:53,236 --> 00:44:55,956 Speaker 1: It's the role of a producer is a kind of 784 00:44:56,476 --> 00:44:59,676 Speaker 1: sometimes can be like a mentor and an advice when 785 00:44:59,716 --> 00:45:01,916 Speaker 1: you need it. And just like what I said about Rick, 786 00:45:01,996 --> 00:45:05,516 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, And the wonderful thing about doing it 787 00:45:05,556 --> 00:45:07,836 Speaker 1: in that context is that I get to go home 788 00:45:09,116 --> 00:45:12,796 Speaker 1: and just like leave the noise behind, because I'm somebody 789 00:45:12,836 --> 00:45:16,396 Speaker 1: who really values peace. I really value it, and I 790 00:45:17,116 --> 00:45:20,156 Speaker 1: would find I know myself enough to know that i'd 791 00:45:20,196 --> 00:45:24,516 Speaker 1: find children pretty unbearable when it comes to like noise 792 00:45:24,596 --> 00:45:29,396 Speaker 1: and kind of like unwanted distraction. And you know, it's 793 00:45:29,396 --> 00:45:30,916 Speaker 1: just like it'd be so difficult for me. 794 00:45:30,956 --> 00:45:33,356 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, sensory overload. 795 00:45:33,636 --> 00:45:35,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just for me. I mean, you know, 796 00:45:35,156 --> 00:45:37,276 Speaker 1: I think if you want kids and it's just something 797 00:45:37,276 --> 00:45:40,956 Speaker 1: you've always wanted, then then do you you know, yeah, totally. 798 00:45:41,356 --> 00:45:43,596 Speaker 1: I'm not one of those people who's like I could 799 00:45:43,636 --> 00:45:46,996 Speaker 1: never bring a child into this world. It's like that's 800 00:45:47,356 --> 00:45:49,596 Speaker 1: I feel like every generation's probably said something like that. 801 00:45:49,676 --> 00:45:52,676 Speaker 1: Based on the Cold War, You've got like the fucking 802 00:45:52,716 --> 00:45:58,356 Speaker 1: it's like, how many, how many terrible world endings, almost 803 00:45:58,436 --> 00:46:01,236 Speaker 1: world ending situations have we've been through. It's like people 804 00:46:01,276 --> 00:46:02,156 Speaker 1: still had kids, you know. 805 00:46:02,516 --> 00:46:06,636 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna take one last quick break and then 806 00:46:06,676 --> 00:46:09,956 Speaker 2: come back with more from Leo Rose and James Blake. 807 00:46:15,556 --> 00:46:19,196 Speaker 2: Here's the rest of Lea Rose's conversation with James Blake. 808 00:46:19,876 --> 00:46:24,116 Speaker 3: I was curious because I watched the entire interview you 809 00:46:24,116 --> 00:46:27,836 Speaker 3: did with Theo Vaughn. It was such a great interview, 810 00:46:27,836 --> 00:46:31,516 Speaker 3: two hours and forty four minutes. Yeah, and as someone 811 00:46:31,556 --> 00:46:33,836 Speaker 3: who's been doing interviews for so long now you've been 812 00:46:34,356 --> 00:46:38,436 Speaker 3: over ten years, you've been doing interviews, do you prefer 813 00:46:38,516 --> 00:46:42,396 Speaker 3: that format where it's just loose and it's more of 814 00:46:42,436 --> 00:46:46,036 Speaker 3: a conversation rather than a structured, straight ahead interview. 815 00:46:46,716 --> 00:46:49,836 Speaker 1: I think I do. And I also like, you know, 816 00:46:50,396 --> 00:46:53,676 Speaker 1: I quite like doing specialist things. I don't know, like 817 00:46:53,836 --> 00:46:57,076 Speaker 1: I think my interest is too specific to do very 818 00:46:57,236 --> 00:47:03,156 Speaker 1: general press. Yeah, I find it really dull and I 819 00:47:03,236 --> 00:47:07,796 Speaker 1: don't know, it's like with THEO and then some of 820 00:47:07,796 --> 00:47:11,036 Speaker 1: the other things I've done, to think that the kind 821 00:47:11,076 --> 00:47:16,436 Speaker 1: of format is allows me to be actually myself. You know, 822 00:47:16,476 --> 00:47:20,956 Speaker 1: sometimes I think myself is too jagged or something or 823 00:47:20,996 --> 00:47:23,756 Speaker 1: like not not quite not quite suited to a lot 824 00:47:23,796 --> 00:47:28,316 Speaker 1: of mainstream press. And maybe it's just an insecurity of 825 00:47:28,356 --> 00:47:30,476 Speaker 1: mine that I won't be I won't come across well, 826 00:47:30,836 --> 00:47:34,916 Speaker 1: but I just don't always feel comfortable. And yeah, I 827 00:47:35,036 --> 00:47:37,836 Speaker 1: like to just feel safe in the interview, and I 828 00:47:37,836 --> 00:47:40,996 Speaker 1: think that's what Theo's great at, you know, like not 829 00:47:41,036 --> 00:47:44,276 Speaker 1: only is he one of my longtime friends, but he's 830 00:47:44,316 --> 00:47:49,716 Speaker 1: also just a safe space. You know, he gives you, well, 831 00:47:49,756 --> 00:47:51,516 Speaker 1: for a start, he's always going to be the more 832 00:47:51,636 --> 00:47:53,996 Speaker 1: edgy one out of the two of you, regardless, so 833 00:47:54,396 --> 00:47:57,116 Speaker 1: you can just rely on him to make you look 834 00:47:57,196 --> 00:48:03,556 Speaker 1: pretty tame. And also he's hilarious and he's just he's 835 00:48:03,596 --> 00:48:09,516 Speaker 1: one of those people who just advocates total honesty and 836 00:48:09,596 --> 00:48:13,876 Speaker 1: like someone he's just really vulnerable with his audience, and 837 00:48:13,916 --> 00:48:15,556 Speaker 1: I just think that's so great. 838 00:48:15,836 --> 00:48:18,356 Speaker 3: It's just surprising. You guys are friends like people in 839 00:48:18,396 --> 00:48:22,276 Speaker 3: the comments are like, I would have never expected this relationship, right, 840 00:48:22,756 --> 00:48:24,836 Speaker 3: and you're so sweet and supportive with each other. 841 00:48:25,756 --> 00:48:28,156 Speaker 1: Well, I just think he's I think he does something 842 00:48:28,196 --> 00:48:31,076 Speaker 1: similar to me. I don't know, I've always felt like 843 00:48:31,116 --> 00:48:34,196 Speaker 1: that when even the first time I saw him do comedy, 844 00:48:34,796 --> 00:48:37,836 Speaker 1: I just thought, Oh, this is someone whose mind genuinely 845 00:48:38,196 --> 00:48:40,996 Speaker 1: goes to the other the less trodden paths, you know, 846 00:48:41,916 --> 00:48:43,996 Speaker 1: and it's the only way he can do it. I 847 00:48:43,996 --> 00:48:47,036 Speaker 1: could see that there was a commonality where he was 848 00:48:47,076 --> 00:48:49,076 Speaker 1: always looking for and I said this in the podcast, 849 00:48:49,076 --> 00:48:52,156 Speaker 1: He's always looking for the way of saying something he 850 00:48:52,236 --> 00:48:55,276 Speaker 1: hasn't said it before. Yeah, And that's to me, is 851 00:48:55,516 --> 00:48:58,356 Speaker 1: just is just great. And there's not really that much 852 00:48:58,396 --> 00:49:03,836 Speaker 1: difference in doing that with comedy as to doing it 853 00:49:03,876 --> 00:49:07,956 Speaker 1: in music. It's pretty similar. I mean I don't have 854 00:49:08,356 --> 00:49:10,796 Speaker 1: you know, I don't have loaded prese, you know, I 855 00:49:10,796 --> 00:49:15,036 Speaker 1: sort of don't do things by template. Yeah, and I 856 00:49:15,076 --> 00:49:18,076 Speaker 1: get bored really easily. So I think it's well I 857 00:49:18,116 --> 00:49:18,996 Speaker 1: think we're quite similar. 858 00:49:19,476 --> 00:49:23,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard about other comedians talk about the connection 859 00:49:24,316 --> 00:49:28,996 Speaker 3: or a similarity between comedians and musicians, like Dave Chappelle 860 00:49:29,076 --> 00:49:32,876 Speaker 3: and Block Party said that all comedians want to be 861 00:49:32,956 --> 00:49:35,556 Speaker 3: musicians and all musicians want to be comedians. And I 862 00:49:35,596 --> 00:49:38,156 Speaker 3: don't think that's the most obvious connection. 863 00:49:38,756 --> 00:49:42,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's true, well to some extent. I 864 00:49:42,236 --> 00:49:44,236 Speaker 1: think it's true. I mean it, you know, so, I 865 00:49:44,236 --> 00:49:48,676 Speaker 1: don't actually want to be a comedian, and I'm never 866 00:49:49,276 --> 00:49:51,276 Speaker 1: you know, you'll probably never see me try a stand up, 867 00:49:51,316 --> 00:49:53,156 Speaker 1: but it's just a different part of your brain that 868 00:49:53,236 --> 00:49:58,036 Speaker 1: you admire the art form, and you sort of between musicians. 869 00:49:58,876 --> 00:50:01,556 Speaker 1: I find that the musicians who love other musicians the 870 00:50:01,596 --> 00:50:04,796 Speaker 1: most are always ones that just don't know how it's done. 871 00:50:05,196 --> 00:50:07,476 Speaker 1: You know. It's like it's a magic trick, really, and 872 00:50:07,596 --> 00:50:11,476 Speaker 1: you're looking to figure things out. And if you're a 873 00:50:11,516 --> 00:50:14,756 Speaker 1: producer or a musician, you really if you can just 874 00:50:15,196 --> 00:50:19,196 Speaker 1: hear that it's done by numbers, then that's not interesting 875 00:50:19,236 --> 00:50:22,636 Speaker 1: to a musician, right, Like a musician's musician is someone 876 00:50:22,676 --> 00:50:24,796 Speaker 1: who no one can really work out how they do it. 877 00:50:25,556 --> 00:50:28,276 Speaker 1: And that's the same in comedy. You know, it's like THEO. 878 00:50:28,636 --> 00:50:31,996 Speaker 1: No one really understands Theo's brain. I think I have 879 00:50:32,076 --> 00:50:35,436 Speaker 1: a pretty good idea of it, and then he'll say 880 00:50:35,476 --> 00:50:39,156 Speaker 1: something that takes me by surprise, and I just that's 881 00:50:39,676 --> 00:50:42,436 Speaker 1: why it's fascinating. That's why it's fascinating, that's why it's engaging, 882 00:50:42,436 --> 00:50:45,076 Speaker 1: and that's why it's always it's always fun. I feel 883 00:50:45,076 --> 00:50:49,356 Speaker 1: the same way about my girlfriend Jamila's brain works, her 884 00:50:49,396 --> 00:50:53,276 Speaker 1: comedic brain works in a way that like I can't 885 00:50:53,676 --> 00:50:57,076 Speaker 1: fully understand, like even knowing her for eight years, Like 886 00:50:57,156 --> 00:51:01,116 Speaker 1: she just makes me laugh all the time, every day 887 00:51:01,356 --> 00:51:05,956 Speaker 1: in ways that surprise me every time. And that's you know, 888 00:51:06,036 --> 00:51:08,716 Speaker 1: and she says I do for her too, And I 889 00:51:08,716 --> 00:51:13,236 Speaker 1: think it's funny. And there's nothing less funny than describing humor. 890 00:51:16,196 --> 00:51:19,996 Speaker 1: But that's what it is. That's the thing with the THEO, 891 00:51:20,236 --> 00:51:21,796 Speaker 1: and it's the thing I enjoy. And I think that's 892 00:51:21,836 --> 00:51:25,356 Speaker 1: the thing that musicians with comedians, they just we just 893 00:51:25,396 --> 00:51:26,316 Speaker 1: don't know how they're doing it. 894 00:51:27,236 --> 00:51:30,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, And speaking of musicians musicians, I know a lot 895 00:51:30,276 --> 00:51:32,516 Speaker 3: of people talk about Joni Mitchell that way that they 896 00:51:32,556 --> 00:51:35,956 Speaker 3: can't figure out how she does what she does, how 897 00:51:35,996 --> 00:51:39,796 Speaker 3: she plays guitar, or how she you know, the lyrics 898 00:51:39,836 --> 00:51:43,356 Speaker 3: she comes up with. Yeah, has there been anybody that 899 00:51:43,396 --> 00:51:47,276 Speaker 3: you've collaborated with other musicians where you work with them 900 00:51:47,356 --> 00:51:49,916 Speaker 3: and you just get that feeling. 901 00:51:50,196 --> 00:51:53,596 Speaker 1: Connin Moccasin, I think Connin Moccasin I have that with 902 00:51:54,636 --> 00:51:59,036 Speaker 1: I mean, yay, Yeah. There's a handful of people who 903 00:51:59,076 --> 00:52:03,676 Speaker 1: are one of ones, you know, who it's very very 904 00:52:03,676 --> 00:52:08,076 Speaker 1: difficult to pinpoint where an ideas come from or how 905 00:52:08,116 --> 00:52:12,276 Speaker 1: it's how it's a arrived on the page, and people 906 00:52:12,316 --> 00:52:15,116 Speaker 1: who have a certain kind of magic that can't be replicated. 907 00:52:15,156 --> 00:52:18,116 Speaker 1: I think that's the You know, there are lots of 908 00:52:18,156 --> 00:52:20,396 Speaker 1: different types of people who work in music, and you know, 909 00:52:20,436 --> 00:52:24,036 Speaker 1: in terms of like writers and producers, there's a scale 910 00:52:24,116 --> 00:52:26,436 Speaker 1: between people who are kind of have kind of studied 911 00:52:26,836 --> 00:52:29,716 Speaker 1: what's happening and now and now are just adding to 912 00:52:29,796 --> 00:52:33,636 Speaker 1: the adding to the ovary, you know, adding to the 913 00:52:33,796 --> 00:52:38,876 Speaker 1: kind of the hubbub basically, and then on the other 914 00:52:38,956 --> 00:52:42,556 Speaker 1: end of the scale you have people who are like 915 00:52:43,436 --> 00:52:46,556 Speaker 1: musical compost as Brian Ino described it to me, who 916 00:52:47,396 --> 00:52:51,156 Speaker 1: who are there to catalyze music and who don't necessarily 917 00:52:51,236 --> 00:52:55,876 Speaker 1: always reach their levels of fame that some of the 918 00:52:56,036 --> 00:53:00,356 Speaker 1: people in the middle do, but they provide ideas for 919 00:53:00,396 --> 00:53:03,916 Speaker 1: the rest of music to bounce off. And that can 920 00:53:03,956 --> 00:53:06,276 Speaker 1: be like a beautiful and a frustrating place to be 921 00:53:06,356 --> 00:53:09,556 Speaker 1: for a lot of artists. And I've seen kind of 922 00:53:09,996 --> 00:53:12,956 Speaker 1: a range of artists now as a producer, like having 923 00:53:12,996 --> 00:53:15,236 Speaker 1: worked with a lot of people, I think I've just 924 00:53:16,396 --> 00:53:20,316 Speaker 1: you know, accepted my place and whatever spectrum that, you know, 925 00:53:20,356 --> 00:53:22,836 Speaker 1: wherever I am on that spectrum, I think I've accepted it. 926 00:53:23,476 --> 00:53:24,916 Speaker 1: But I think that's something that all of us have 927 00:53:24,956 --> 00:53:28,756 Speaker 1: to come to terms with, whether we are genuine, genuine 928 00:53:28,796 --> 00:53:33,556 Speaker 1: idea new idea creators, or if we're people who work 929 00:53:33,676 --> 00:53:37,916 Speaker 1: best as facilitating those ideas. 930 00:53:38,316 --> 00:53:41,676 Speaker 3: You know, seems like it could be difficult if you 931 00:53:41,796 --> 00:53:44,116 Speaker 3: want to be someone who's bringing new ideas to the 932 00:53:44,156 --> 00:53:48,276 Speaker 3: table but instead really your best at just facilitating. That 933 00:53:48,316 --> 00:53:49,596 Speaker 3: could be sort of a conflict. 934 00:53:50,636 --> 00:53:56,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd hate that. That's not a great place to be. 935 00:53:57,036 --> 00:53:58,796 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, wanting to be something you're not 936 00:53:59,076 --> 00:54:02,156 Speaker 1: is fundamentally a cause. 937 00:54:01,956 --> 00:54:06,236 Speaker 3: Of suffering, you know, and being a facilitator isn't as 938 00:54:06,236 --> 00:54:08,316 Speaker 3: sexy as moving a genre forward. 939 00:54:09,236 --> 00:54:13,516 Speaker 1: Yeah, But you know, it's like there are people who 940 00:54:13,516 --> 00:54:19,596 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have the skill in new idea creation or 941 00:54:19,676 --> 00:54:21,876 Speaker 1: like you know, might not have that magic, but they 942 00:54:21,876 --> 00:54:28,716 Speaker 1: do have an incredible focus, pulling kind of magnetizing charisma, 943 00:54:29,076 --> 00:54:32,516 Speaker 1: which might be something else. And I think like in 944 00:54:33,036 --> 00:54:35,956 Speaker 1: pop especially, you have like a it takes a whole 945 00:54:36,036 --> 00:54:36,956 Speaker 1: village really. 946 00:54:37,556 --> 00:54:40,436 Speaker 3: So, And I have to ask you about working with 947 00:54:40,476 --> 00:54:44,116 Speaker 3: Andre three thousand sounds like you made a lot of 948 00:54:44,196 --> 00:54:48,276 Speaker 3: music that hasn't been released yet. Yeah, And is that 949 00:54:48,476 --> 00:54:50,876 Speaker 3: it's just sort of in flux. Is there any way 950 00:54:50,916 --> 00:54:52,836 Speaker 3: that we'll ever be able to hear anything? 951 00:54:53,596 --> 00:54:55,956 Speaker 1: I hope so. But I mean, wasn't he on this 952 00:54:55,956 --> 00:54:57,756 Speaker 1: podcast when he said that he wasn't going to be 953 00:54:57,796 --> 00:55:00,716 Speaker 1: he wasn't going to be releasing any more music. That's 954 00:55:00,756 --> 00:55:01,796 Speaker 1: actually how I found out. 955 00:55:03,476 --> 00:55:09,036 Speaker 3: Okay, what's the catch? The song that you did with them, 956 00:55:09,156 --> 00:55:11,396 Speaker 3: it's the catch for your album is just phenomenal. 957 00:55:11,596 --> 00:55:14,956 Speaker 1: Thank you. There's a crazy honor to get him, get 958 00:55:15,076 --> 00:55:15,836 Speaker 1: him on that song. 959 00:55:16,356 --> 00:55:18,236 Speaker 3: Were you all together in the studio. 960 00:55:18,396 --> 00:55:23,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did months, but on that specific 961 00:55:23,156 --> 00:55:25,756 Speaker 1: song is yeah, a couple of nights. But yeah, my god, 962 00:55:26,356 --> 00:55:31,316 Speaker 1: you're you're dealing with a living icon. Who Yeah, it's 963 00:55:31,356 --> 00:55:35,196 Speaker 1: almost surprising to hear something new come from that person 964 00:55:35,276 --> 00:55:39,796 Speaker 1: because you're so used to the songs that exist, You're 965 00:55:39,836 --> 00:55:44,036 Speaker 1: like almost it seems impossible that they could just be created. 966 00:55:44,316 --> 00:55:47,156 Speaker 1: It feels like they were just divinely just put somewhere 967 00:55:47,836 --> 00:55:50,356 Speaker 1: and they were just almost like you found them, like 968 00:55:50,756 --> 00:55:55,116 Speaker 1: you know, like precious metals or something, and you know, 969 00:55:55,156 --> 00:55:59,476 Speaker 1: in this case with Andre, Yeah, I just just had 970 00:55:59,476 --> 00:56:02,476 Speaker 1: to pinch myself a little bit and remind myself it 971 00:56:02,516 --> 00:56:06,996 Speaker 1: was really happening. So yeah, I'm honestly so blessed. Like 972 00:56:07,196 --> 00:56:10,476 Speaker 1: I've had some of the most unbeliev musical experiences and 973 00:56:10,836 --> 00:56:14,396 Speaker 1: personal experiences in this career. Like I just I can't 974 00:56:14,436 --> 00:56:15,756 Speaker 1: wait to see what's next. 975 00:56:15,756 --> 00:56:19,396 Speaker 3: Really, So see your dad as a musician and how 976 00:56:19,436 --> 00:56:22,716 Speaker 3: he's maybe changed or his focus has changed as he's 977 00:56:22,756 --> 00:56:26,556 Speaker 3: gotten older. Have you thought about your own trajectory as 978 00:56:26,556 --> 00:56:29,836 Speaker 3: a musician as you get into your forties and fifties. 979 00:56:29,836 --> 00:56:33,596 Speaker 3: Have you thought about how your focus might change? 980 00:56:33,916 --> 00:56:36,916 Speaker 1: God, I just just only struck me that I'm going 981 00:56:36,956 --> 00:56:39,516 Speaker 1: to enter my forties at some point in I mean, 982 00:56:39,556 --> 00:56:41,996 Speaker 1: to be fair, I'm thirty four, so it's a bit 983 00:56:41,996 --> 00:56:44,716 Speaker 1: of a way off. But I've worked with some artists 984 00:56:44,756 --> 00:56:52,076 Speaker 1: who've defied age expectation, and they've defied not only defied 985 00:56:52,116 --> 00:56:56,076 Speaker 1: the expectation of age. But they've they've proven that that 986 00:56:56,196 --> 00:56:59,436 Speaker 1: if you have it, if you have something that is 987 00:57:00,396 --> 00:57:03,716 Speaker 1: that has to be shared, you can share it forever, 988 00:57:05,076 --> 00:57:07,116 Speaker 1: and you can share it in different ways forever. You know. 989 00:57:07,156 --> 00:57:10,756 Speaker 1: It's like these people who see people just it's like 990 00:57:11,236 --> 00:57:13,956 Speaker 1: they never seem to leave relevance and we don't know. 991 00:57:14,076 --> 00:57:18,836 Speaker 1: It's like, how is you know, how is Drake still 992 00:57:18,876 --> 00:57:22,836 Speaker 1: making hits? And I'm not he's not even old, but 993 00:57:22,876 --> 00:57:24,796 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, like, yeah, he's like two 994 00:57:24,916 --> 00:57:26,716 Speaker 1: years older than me, I think three years old of me. 995 00:57:27,796 --> 00:57:31,396 Speaker 1: I mean, it feels like the run is never ending. Yeah, 996 00:57:31,516 --> 00:57:34,196 Speaker 1: it feels like this this person has just been on top. 997 00:57:34,756 --> 00:57:36,596 Speaker 1: And by the way, we haven't even really worked together, 998 00:57:36,916 --> 00:57:38,836 Speaker 1: but like how long has it been? 999 00:57:39,636 --> 00:57:39,836 Speaker 2: Yeah? 1000 00:57:40,436 --> 00:57:42,916 Speaker 1: One after another after another after another, and it's like 1001 00:57:42,996 --> 00:57:45,836 Speaker 1: it never stops. Well I mean that's literally a Drake lyric. 1002 00:57:46,476 --> 00:57:52,116 Speaker 1: It never stops. But it's crazy and it maybe he's 1003 00:57:52,116 --> 00:57:54,036 Speaker 1: not maybe the best example of the age thing, but 1004 00:57:54,076 --> 00:57:56,716 Speaker 1: like I'm sure he's I'm sure he will be one day. 1005 00:57:57,236 --> 00:58:00,236 Speaker 1: And then when you look at like jay Z and 1006 00:58:00,316 --> 00:58:03,196 Speaker 1: like he just pops up on stuff and it's like 1007 00:58:03,236 --> 00:58:05,116 Speaker 1: what you did that verse he did on that that 1008 00:58:05,196 --> 00:58:11,156 Speaker 1: DJ caller Jene insane verse and something that a twenty 1009 00:58:11,196 --> 00:58:12,236 Speaker 1: five year old couldn't do. 1010 00:58:13,156 --> 00:58:17,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, not even NAS just comes back around credible run 1011 00:58:17,276 --> 00:58:17,676 Speaker 3: right now? 1012 00:58:17,756 --> 00:58:21,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, like NAS having what another moment, like another what 1013 00:58:21,916 --> 00:58:26,276 Speaker 1: he's okay? So like having another mainstream relevant moment. It's 1014 00:58:26,356 --> 00:58:29,036 Speaker 1: like how it's like people have weave. They come in 1015 00:58:29,076 --> 00:58:32,876 Speaker 1: waves rather than that. I always thought that my career 1016 00:58:32,916 --> 00:58:35,316 Speaker 1: would be over by the time I was thirty. I 1017 00:58:35,396 --> 00:58:37,276 Speaker 1: was like, right, I've got this this amount of years 1018 00:58:37,276 --> 00:58:38,996 Speaker 1: to do this, and then and then it's and then 1019 00:58:38,996 --> 00:58:40,916 Speaker 1: the basically my relevance is over. So I'm just going 1020 00:58:40,996 --> 00:58:42,676 Speaker 1: to like just enjoy it and then I'm going to 1021 00:58:42,716 --> 00:58:46,396 Speaker 1: go do something else. But for some reason, as long 1022 00:58:46,396 --> 00:58:48,836 Speaker 1: as I take care of myself, it's been shown to 1023 00:58:48,876 --> 00:58:50,716 Speaker 1: me that I never really have to stop doing what 1024 00:58:50,796 --> 00:58:54,716 Speaker 1: I do, and that I can just keep kind of 1025 00:58:54,956 --> 00:58:58,076 Speaker 1: coming in and out and going in waves of not 1026 00:58:58,156 --> 00:58:59,796 Speaker 1: just it's not really about relevance. It's more to do 1027 00:58:59,836 --> 00:59:03,436 Speaker 1: with waves of like being in tune and doing your 1028 00:59:03,436 --> 00:59:05,796 Speaker 1: best work. I mean, there'll be people who listen to 1029 00:59:05,796 --> 00:59:10,236 Speaker 1: this record now and say, oh, glad, he's finally getting 1030 00:59:10,236 --> 00:59:13,036 Speaker 1: back to what he does best right, and this will 1031 00:59:13,076 --> 00:59:16,076 Speaker 1: be a moment for them of like, oh, he finally 1032 00:59:16,356 --> 00:59:19,596 Speaker 1: did it again. And there'll be people who just don't 1033 00:59:19,596 --> 00:59:21,116 Speaker 1: get it at all, and that's that's fine. 1034 00:59:21,156 --> 00:59:22,836 Speaker 3: But it's like, but they can just wait for the 1035 00:59:22,876 --> 00:59:23,316 Speaker 3: next one. 1036 00:59:23,796 --> 00:59:26,556 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, it's it's just you know, that's the point 1037 00:59:26,556 --> 00:59:27,156 Speaker 1: of being. 1038 00:59:27,196 --> 00:59:29,516 Speaker 3: Like, you're always going to have a continuous stream. 1039 00:59:30,156 --> 00:59:32,476 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not going to stop. Well, no, it hasn't 1040 00:59:32,556 --> 00:59:35,956 Speaker 1: so far. I mean, it stopped when I got very depressed. 1041 00:59:35,996 --> 00:59:39,356 Speaker 1: But I guess I sorted that out and here we are. 1042 00:59:39,996 --> 00:59:42,476 Speaker 3: Was that before the Rick album? 1043 00:59:42,636 --> 00:59:45,396 Speaker 1: No, that was during Color and Anything, but but but 1044 00:59:45,476 --> 00:59:48,276 Speaker 1: it meant Color and Anything took so long to make 1045 00:59:48,716 --> 00:59:50,316 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't just three months with Rick. It 1046 00:59:50,356 --> 00:59:54,996 Speaker 1: was it was years between Overgrown and that and then 1047 00:59:55,956 --> 00:59:57,796 Speaker 1: and then the time after that to assume format. It 1048 00:59:57,836 --> 01:00:00,396 Speaker 1: was quite a long, long period of time, and I 1049 01:00:00,436 --> 01:00:05,116 Speaker 1: really took a big detour in terms of my kind 1050 01:00:05,156 --> 01:00:07,276 Speaker 1: of what a lot of people thought my trajectory was 1051 01:00:07,276 --> 01:00:09,836 Speaker 1: going to be. And I think what is to say 1052 01:00:10,076 --> 01:00:13,356 Speaker 1: is to say that, like every artist, as long as 1053 01:00:13,396 --> 01:00:16,676 Speaker 1: you are doing what you love, you can do it forever. 1054 01:00:17,156 --> 01:00:19,156 Speaker 1: You know, if you're really serious about it and maybe 1055 01:00:19,196 --> 01:00:23,796 Speaker 1: money isn't the primary concern. And I think that was 1056 01:00:23,836 --> 01:00:25,556 Speaker 1: a surprise to me to learn from some of the 1057 01:00:25,556 --> 01:00:29,036 Speaker 1: people I work with that that, Like, you know, my 1058 01:00:29,116 --> 01:00:31,996 Speaker 1: friend Eric the architect telling me that George Clinton, He's 1059 01:00:31,996 --> 01:00:34,756 Speaker 1: got George Clinton on his album. They just keep coming 1060 01:00:34,796 --> 01:00:35,316 Speaker 1: back around. 1061 01:00:35,916 --> 01:00:38,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I see that with you. I feel like, 1062 01:00:38,236 --> 01:00:39,196 Speaker 3: why would it start? 1063 01:00:39,516 --> 01:00:42,556 Speaker 1: Well, I've never seen it that way. I couldn't possibly 1064 01:00:42,596 --> 01:00:44,156 Speaker 1: say that for myself, but what I could say is 1065 01:00:44,156 --> 01:00:46,596 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep trying, and I do. And it 1066 01:00:46,996 --> 01:00:49,756 Speaker 1: gave me some hope that the other some of the 1067 01:00:49,876 --> 01:00:53,596 Speaker 1: people that I love the most are still killing it 1068 01:00:53,636 --> 01:00:57,356 Speaker 1: and still doing air thing popping up. It doesn't have 1069 01:00:57,396 --> 01:00:58,356 Speaker 1: to end at thirty. 1070 01:00:58,396 --> 01:01:02,116 Speaker 3: Basically, Yeah, thank you so much for doing this. I 1071 01:01:02,156 --> 01:01:03,316 Speaker 3: appreciate you so much. 1072 01:01:03,436 --> 01:01:05,196 Speaker 1: And man me too, Leah, thank you. 1073 01:01:05,436 --> 01:01:07,916 Speaker 3: Thank you, and congratulations on the album. I can't wait 1074 01:01:07,956 --> 01:01:08,836 Speaker 3: for people to hear it. 1075 01:01:09,116 --> 01:01:10,596 Speaker 1: Thanks me too. Jas. 1076 01:01:13,516 --> 01:01:15,916 Speaker 2: Thanks to James Blake for chatting about making his new 1077 01:01:15,956 --> 01:01:19,516 Speaker 2: album Playing Robots and Dead. You can hear all of 1078 01:01:19,516 --> 01:01:22,356 Speaker 2: our favorite tracks from him, as well as songs featuring 1079 01:01:22,476 --> 01:01:26,396 Speaker 2: James Blake on a playlist at Broken record podcast dot com. 1080 01:01:26,916 --> 01:01:29,476 Speaker 2: You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot 1081 01:01:29,516 --> 01:01:32,556 Speaker 2: com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all 1082 01:01:32,596 --> 01:01:35,836 Speaker 2: of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter 1083 01:01:35,996 --> 01:01:39,356 Speaker 2: at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from 1084 01:01:39,436 --> 01:01:43,836 Speaker 2: Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday, and Eric Sandler. Our 1085 01:01:43,956 --> 01:01:47,556 Speaker 2: editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production of 1086 01:01:47,636 --> 01:01:50,156 Speaker 2: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and to others 1087 01:01:50,156 --> 01:01:54,276 Speaker 2: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is 1088 01:01:54,316 --> 01:01:58,236 Speaker 2: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad 1089 01:01:58,276 --> 01:02:01,076 Speaker 2: free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for 1090 01:02:01,116 --> 01:02:04,436 Speaker 2: Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like 1091 01:02:04,516 --> 01:02:07,036 Speaker 2: the show, please remember to share, rate, and review us 1092 01:02:07,156 --> 01:02:10,156 Speaker 2: on your podcast app. Musics by Canny Beats. 1093 01:02:10,636 --> 01:02:18,076 Speaker 1: I'm justin Richemond mm hmm