1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff production of iHeart Radio. Hey, brain Stuff, 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Lorn bog Obama here. Senator Bernie Sanders, the Vermont Independent 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: who again is running for the Democratic nomination for president, 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: proclaimed in a twenty nineteen speech to sixteen thousand supporters 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, we say no to oligarchy. Sanders, who 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: warns that billionaires are buying elections and exerting too much 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: power over the government, refers to oligarchies frequently. But he's 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: not the only one around the web. But you'll see 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: places ranging from Russia, China, and Saudi Arabia to Brazil 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: and even Hong Kong described as oligarchies. Seventeen Salon article 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: even warned of the growing power of a global uber 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: oligarchy comprised of wealthy, superpowerful figures ranging from financiers to 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: rock stars. And the concept isn't just owned by the 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: left either. President Donald Trump may not have used the 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: same terminology, but the billionaire businessman rose to power in 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: part by railing against the elites that he accused of 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: disenfranchising ordinary Americans. If you're not a political science major, 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: you may be wondering what exactly is an oligarchy anyway, 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: and do we really have one in the United States. 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: We spoke with Braun form Sano, the William T. Bryan 21 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: Shair of American History and Professor Emeritus of History at 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: the University of Kentucky. He's written a couple of books 23 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: on the subject American oligarchy, The Permanent Political Class, and 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: Plutocracy in America. How increasing inequality destroys the middle class 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: and exploits the poor. Formisano explained, an oligarchy is a 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: combination of wealth and power and often tends to close 27 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: off access to its ranks, pulling up the ladder. Oligarchy, 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: from the ancient Greek word meaning few, is a concept 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: that goes back to the Greek philosopher Aristotle, who used 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: it to describe a society governed by select few, wealthy 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: or aristocratic people, as opposed to rule by a single 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: monarch or a democracy in which the great mass of 33 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: people of humble means holds control. Aristotle actually didn't favor 34 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: either oligarchy or democracy. He preferred a sort of half 35 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: decaff cup of Joe, in which a middle group of 36 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: moderately wealthy citizens controlled the reins. In the early nineteen hundreds. 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: Philosopher Rubert Michelle's came up the Iron Law of oligarchy. 38 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: It holds that any organization or society, even one that 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: espouses democratic ideals of popular rule, inevitably will devolve into 40 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: oligarchic rule, in which a few people take most of 41 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: the power, in part because rank and file members tend 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: to want someone to tell them what to do. In America, 43 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: Sanders isn't the first politician to be concerned about oligarchy. 44 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: Fear that an entrenched elite would seize power dates back 45 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: to the error when the nation was founded. John Adams, 46 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: who became the second U S President, in particular, saw 47 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: it as a potential menace. We spoke with Luke Mayville, 48 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: author of the book John Adams and the Fear of 49 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: American Oligarchy. He said, our popular history paints us as 50 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: a revolutionary society that overthrew monarchy, but revolution era America 51 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: was also full of animosity towards anything resembling formal nobility 52 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: or aristocratic privilege. This animosity made its way into the U. 53 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: S Constitution in the form of the nobility clause of 54 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: Article one, which prohibits the federal government from granting titles 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: of nobility. What made Adams unique was a systematic manner 56 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: in which he theorized about oligarchy and documented the threat 57 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: that oligarchy had posed throughout history. Mayville continued relatively early 58 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: in his adult life. Adams was struck by the disproportionate 59 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: influence enjoyed by men of wealth and illustrious lineage, but 60 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: the record shows that he became much more fearful of 61 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: oligarchy during his long sojourn as diplomat in Europe in 62 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: the late seventeen seventies and early seventeen eighties. In the 63 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: Old World, he became a careful observer of the power 64 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: that went hand in hand with family, lineage, physical beauty, 65 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: and especially wealth. When he compared these observations of the 66 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: Old world to conditions in the New World, he saw 67 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: more similarities than differences. But Adams didn't exactly see the 68 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: world the same way as does Sanders, for example, or 69 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: Senator Elizabeth Warren, another presidential candidate who was concerned about 70 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: the concentration of wealth and power. Because Adams worried about 71 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: rule by ordinary citizens as well, almost as much as 72 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: he worried about oligarchy. He thought that giving everyone the 73 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: right to vote would inevitably lead to all currently held 74 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: private property being divvied up and redistributed. He believed in 75 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: a balance between the power of the wealthy few and 76 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: the organized power of the lower classes, something perhaps it 77 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: can to Aristotle's concept of a mixed ruling class. Oligarchies 78 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: can develop in societies for several reasons. In a country 79 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: with a monarchy or dictatorship, if a leader becomes too 80 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: weak or incompetent rule, the strata of powerful people under 81 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: the leader may start to siphon away his authority and 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: ultimately may replace him with a puppet or else one 83 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: of their own members. It's also possible for an elite, say, 84 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: for example, super wealthy business moguls, to take control of 85 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: a society because they're good at getting things done, whether 86 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: or not those things are in the best interests of 87 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: everybody else. And there's also oligarchy by default, in which 88 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: a democracy essentially withers because ordinary people allow an elite 89 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: to take over because it's easier than staying informed and 90 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: grappling with complexities of governing. The question of whether the 91 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: US is turning into an oligarchy, or perhaps already is one, 92 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: has become a subjective heated debate back In an analysis 93 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: out of Princeton and Northwestern University, studied one thousand, seven 94 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy nine different policy issues and concluded that 95 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: economic elites and groups representing business interests had a lot 96 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: of influence upon US government policy, while ordinary citizens and 97 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: interest groups representing them held a little sway. They didn't 98 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: actually use the term oligarchy, though news media headlines summarizing 99 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: their work did, but several other scholars published rebuttals arguing 100 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: that either the masses and the elites didn't really disagree 101 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: that much about policy choices, or that when they did, 102 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: the masses usually prevailed. Public opinion though, suggests that most 103 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: people think of the U S As oligarchic, even if 104 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: they don't call it that. In seen poll, sevent of 105 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: Americans said that people like them have too little influence 106 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: in Washington, and two percent believed that wealthy people had 107 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: too much power over the government here in the U S. 108 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: Foremisano said, it's not a matter of restrictions, but more 109 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: closing of opportunity and diminishing chances for the middle and 110 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: lower classes. Even some billionaires worried that the nation's rising 111 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: income inequalities unsustainable and may endangerr capitalism's future, even if 112 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: they're not quite ready to give up all their influence. 113 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: Today's episode was written by Patrick J. Tiger and produced 114 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: by Tyler Clang. Brain Stuff is a production of iHeart 115 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. For more in this and lots 116 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: of other powerful topics, visit our home planet, how stuff 117 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: Works dot com, and for more podcasts for my heart radio, 118 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 119 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.