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Speaker 1: When you pull up to game night, Ay, all new Camri,

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Speaker 1: but it's actually Bingo.

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Speaker 4: Night miniglf anyone, It's a Camri.

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Speaker 1: Five, the all new all hybrid Camri Toyota. Let's go places.

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Speaker 5: Hey, Daniel, if you were Dark Matter, where would you hide?

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't hide. If I was Dark Matter, I would

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Speaker 1: totally parade myself in front of all the scientists in

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Speaker 1: the galaxy.

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Speaker 5: Ooh, a parade You mean like a pageant queen?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, something like that. You know, just don't be so shy.

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Speaker 5: Well, if it turns out you are dark matter, we'll

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Speaker 5: definitely throw you a parade. But so far, it seems

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Speaker 5: like dark matter is kind of reclusive, right, it's kind

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Speaker 5: of shy, so maybe it is hiding. What would be

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Speaker 5: some good spots for it to hide it?

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Speaker 1: Well, if dark matter doesn't want a tiara and it's

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Speaker 1: hiding somewhere, then I don't know where it would hide.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if I knew, I would go and look

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Speaker 1: for it there.

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Speaker 5: What if it's somewhere kind of obvious.

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Speaker 1: Like what like right behind me?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, or right in front of you or right on

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Speaker 5: TV and the Matter universe contest.

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Speaker 1: That would be a great twist ending for the m

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Speaker 1: Knight Shamanlan version of this story.

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Speaker 5: Well, man, do you think he knows I see dark matter?

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Speaker 6: Hi?

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Speaker 5: I'm Jorge Mack, cartoonist and author of Allor's Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I wish

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Speaker 1: I had a dark matter tiara.

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Speaker 5: Oh, but it wouldn't be very shiny or bright. It

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Speaker 5: would be dark, So what's the point. Also, when it

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Speaker 5: it just fall through your head.

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Speaker 1: It would be hard to wear, but it'd be like

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Speaker 1: the greatest, most amazing piece of jewelry.

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Speaker 5: Ever, how would you even keep it in your house?

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Speaker 1: These are just like engineering details.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: Once I've solved the physics of a dark matter Tiara,

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Speaker 1: I'll just pass that off to the engineers.

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Speaker 5: This is just all part of your dream to be

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Speaker 5: the universe's darktor universe.

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Speaker 1: I would like a little bit of bling. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: physics bling would be nice. I'm not gonna win a

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Speaker 1: Nobel Prize anytime soon, So dark matter Tirres sounds good.

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Speaker 1: I see.

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Speaker 5: I see. You could just say you have a dark

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Speaker 5: matter Tierra, and they know nobody would be able to

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Speaker 5: see it, or feel it or detect it. They would

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Speaker 5: just have to believe you.

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Speaker 1: I need evidence, man, That's what science is all about.

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Speaker 1: You got to have data.

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Speaker 5: I don't think those beauty contests depend on data very much.

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Speaker 1: But I'm trying to win a science contest.

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Speaker 5: But anyway's welcome. Podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

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Speaker 5: a production of iHeartRadio in which we enter you in.

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Speaker 1: The greatest science contest of all time, the quest to

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Speaker 1: understand the nature of the universe. What is it, what's

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Speaker 1: in it? What's it made out? Of how does it

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Speaker 1: all work. We think these questions are deep and fundamental

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Speaker 1: parts of being a human being in this cosmos, and

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Speaker 1: unraveling these questions is a joy that everybody should share.

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Speaker 1: So on this podcast we take those questions apart and

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Speaker 1: try to share our answers and our ignorance with you.

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Speaker 5: That's right, because science is the greatest beauty contest in

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Speaker 5: the universe. We're the goal is to discover the beauty

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Speaker 5: of how this universe is put together, how it works,

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Speaker 5: and what is our place in it.

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Speaker 1: Over the last fifty one hundred years, we've developed a

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Speaker 1: pretty good sense for what's in the universe. We know

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Speaker 1: about stars and galaxies and all the bright and shiny

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Speaker 1: stuff that's out there in the universe. And we've also

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Speaker 1: figured out that there's a lot of the universe that

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Speaker 1: we can't see directly using our senses or any of

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Speaker 1: the forces that we've discovered except for gravity. We know

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Speaker 1: that a huge chunk of the stuff that's out there

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Speaker 1: in the universe is invisible. It's intangible, which makes it

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Speaker 1: very hard to discover and to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: make it into a tiara.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because it turns out that a pretty good understanding

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Speaker 5: of the universe only covers about uh five percent of

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Speaker 5: what we know is out there. The rest, the ninety

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Speaker 5: five percent of the universe that we know is there,

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Speaker 5: we have no idea what it is or how it works.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a good title for a book.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think we wrote one, Daniel, which is available

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Speaker 5: for us sale everywhere.

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Speaker 1: That's right. The kind of stuff that you and I

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Speaker 1: are made out of, atoms specifically, or what physicists called baryons,

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Speaker 1: only makes up five percent of the energy budget in

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Speaker 1: the universe. There's another twenty five twenty seven percent that's

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Speaker 1: dark matter, some kind of stuff that we know is matter.

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Speaker 1: We know it's out there, but we don't know what

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Speaker 1: it is, and we only have a very rough sense

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Speaker 1: of even where it is around us. The rest of

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Speaker 1: the universe is something we call dark energy, which is

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Speaker 1: contributing to the accelerating expansion of the universe, and we

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Speaker 1: have even less clue about what makes that up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot we don't know, and it seems

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Speaker 5: like these are maybe the defining mysteries of our times

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Speaker 5: is to figure out what the universe is actually made

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Speaker 5: out of. Given that what we're made out of counts

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Speaker 5: is so little of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, And in the last few decades there's

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Speaker 1: been a huge program of people looking for dark matter.

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Speaker 1: We've talked on the podcast about trying to make dark

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Speaker 1: matter in the laboratory by smashing particles together. We're searching

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Speaker 1: for the dark matter wind. We might be floating through

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Speaker 1: with very sensitive underground facilities looking for an individual piece

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Speaker 1: of dark matter to bump into liquid xenon, for example,

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Speaker 1: or maybe evidence of dark matter annihilating itself in the

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Speaker 1: center of the galaxy. But so far, none of these

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Speaker 1: experiments have found dark matter, which means we've got to

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Speaker 1: get creative about other ways to maybe detect this most

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Speaker 1: important or at least most common kind of matter in

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Speaker 1: the universe.

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Speaker 5: So to be On the podcast, we'll be tackling the

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Speaker 5: question could quantum clocks detect dark matter? And how many

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Speaker 5: jargon words can we fit into one podcast title?

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Speaker 1: I know it does sound like buzzword sound, you know,

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Speaker 1: like could we use AI generated crypto bitcoin to detect

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Speaker 1: dark matter?

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Speaker 5: You mean quantum nano matter, Yes, exactly, quantum nano matter.

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Speaker 1: Tiras Wow, I like quantum nanomatter. I'm going to use

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Speaker 1: that in a proposal.

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Speaker 5: That's good, that's said Daniel. Also, it's probably our on

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Speaker 5: sale on Amazon. There's probably some product out there with

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Speaker 5: that name.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but you didn't say ching tm after it,

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Speaker 1: so I can use it.

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Speaker 5: No, you don't have to.

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Speaker 1: What I gotta brush up on my podcast property law.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you better or else I'm gonna see you for

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Speaker 5: nano dollars for nano bitcoins, you know what?

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Speaker 1: Or hey, you can have all of my nano bitcoins.

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Speaker 5: What's the price of bitcoin these days?

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Speaker 1: Nano bitcoins zero? Yeah, doesn't exist.

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Speaker 5: But anyways, it's kind of an intriguing title. Could quantum

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Speaker 5: clocks detect dark matter and quantum clocks sounds like it

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Speaker 5: does sound like something you could buy an off of Amazon.

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Speaker 5: Did you check to see if it's something you can

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Speaker 5: just get next day?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns out Amazon will sell you something it

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Speaker 1: calls a quantum clock, like a quantum entanglement led wall clock.

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Speaker 1: But none of these things are actually quantum clocks the

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Speaker 1: way that we understand them.

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Speaker 5: Well, technically, isn't everything a quantum something? Well, I mean

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Speaker 5: not everything, but you know the five percent that we

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Speaker 5: know about in the universe, it's in it all quantum technically,

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Speaker 5: like this is a quantum podcast.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a really interesting philosophical question and not

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Speaker 1: one that we really have an answer to, because on

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Speaker 1: one hand, you're right that everything is made out of

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Speaker 1: quantum particle, so isn't the whole universe quantum. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, we know that when you zoom out things

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Speaker 1: behave by different rules. We call that classical. We don't

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Speaker 1: really understand why there is that transition, but there definitely

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Speaker 1: is a transition. So to call everything quantum is either

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Speaker 1: to say that look classical is just big zoomed out quantum,

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Speaker 1: or is to say that clackical doesn't really matter, which

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Speaker 1: doesn't really sit well with me. Or what if I

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Speaker 1: have no class, then you probably have a lot of

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Speaker 1: big coin.

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Speaker 5: Then I'm not gonna win any beauty contest. I have poise,

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Speaker 5: but just no class.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But you know, for example, a clock that

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Speaker 1: just works on mechanical parts would also work in the

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Speaker 1: universe where QUANTUMU didn't rule the microscopic because it's not

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Speaker 1: sensitive to those microscopic details, and so that wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: a quantum clock. For example, like a pendulum clock or

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Speaker 1: an old fashioned Swiss gear based.

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Speaker 5: Clock a discussion about now mankla Sure that's my favorite.

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Speaker 1: Hey you brought it up.

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Speaker 5: But anyways, it's a kind of an interesting question and

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Speaker 5: so we'll dig into it. But as usual, we were

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Speaker 5: wondering how many people out there have thought about putting

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Speaker 5: the concepts of dark matter and quantum and clocks all

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Speaker 5: together in one sentence.

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Speaker 1: So thanks very much to everybody who participates in this

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Speaker 1: segment of the podcast. We love that you volunteer, We

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Speaker 1: love hearing your thoughts, and we love sharing your voice

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Speaker 1: with all of the other listeners. Please chime in if

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Speaker 1: you'd like, write to me two questions at Danielanjorge dot

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Speaker 1: com and you can't participate.

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Speaker 5: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 5: quantum clocks can be used to detect dark matter? Here's

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Speaker 5: what people had to say.

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Speaker 7: I've never heard of a quantum clock, but I'm not

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Speaker 7: sure how it would be able to detect dark matter

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Speaker 7: anymore than a regular clock could. I guess maybe even

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Speaker 7: with a regular clock, you could send it out into space,

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Speaker 7: and if it hits a huge clump of dark matter

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Speaker 7: and therefore gravity, maybe we could learn that there's a

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Speaker 7: big well of gravity out in some location that we

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Speaker 7: otherwise couldn't detect.

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Speaker 3: Not so sure.

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Speaker 8: I suppose it's possible, but I have no clue how

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Speaker 8: it would Maybe something to do with entanglement.

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Speaker 9: Since you're asking, the answer is probably yes, but maybe

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Speaker 9: still theoretical. I would think you'd have to use the

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Speaker 9: idea of measuring light passing through an area of more density,

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Speaker 9: thus possibly dark matter that causes curvature of space and

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Speaker 9: also time dilation. How to do that, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: Since we don't possess a quantum clock, it doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: unreasonable to suggest that a non existent clock cannot detect

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Speaker 1: dark matter.

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Speaker 5: All right, it's pretty uh intense answers here. I feel

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Speaker 5: like it's something that some of the listeners had heard

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Speaker 5: about before. Did you pull your professor colleagues this time?

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Speaker 1: No, these are our listeners online. You know. There's some

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Speaker 1: good answers here about entanglement and light passing through areas

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Speaker 1: with dark matter density in them, and just in general

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Speaker 1: sense that this is a hard problem.

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Speaker 5: Maybe you should ask a bunch of beauty queens next time,

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Speaker 5: or make it one of the standard questions in a

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Speaker 5: beauty pageant. Forget howdy, how would you save the world?

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Speaker 5: Or how would you know make things better? What do

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Speaker 5: you think about quantum clocks?

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Speaker 1: Well, where is the dark matter? Yeah, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: hear that answer in the beauty pageant.

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Speaker 5: Not that it couldn't happen, of course, no, absolutely. All right, Well,

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Speaker 5: let's dig into this intriguing question of whether dark matter

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Speaker 5: can be detected by quantum clocks, and let's start with

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Speaker 5: the basics. Daniel, what do we know about dark matter?

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot that we do and do not

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Speaker 1: know about dark matter. So let's start with what we

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Speaker 1: do know. We know that it's out there, and we

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Speaker 1: know that it's here as well. We know that dark

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Speaker 1: matter is something that exists in the universe. And then

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Speaker 1: it's matter. We know that because we see its gravity.

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Speaker 1: We see it holding galaxies together as they spin. There

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Speaker 1: isn't enough gravity from the stars and the gas and

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Speaker 1: dust that make up those galaxies to keep the stars

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Speaker 1: in place as they swirl around the center of the

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Speaker 1: galaxy at very high speeds, and yet they do stay

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Speaker 1: in place. Galaxies are mostly not throwing stars out into

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Speaker 1: intergalactic space, and so we infer that there must be

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Speaker 1: some matter there to hold that galaxy together. But it's

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Speaker 1: more than just that one inference, that one fudge factor

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Speaker 1: to make that particular equation work. We see evidence for

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Speaker 1: dark matter all over the history of the universe, from

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Speaker 1: the very first few moments when the early universe plasma

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Speaker 1: is slashing around and you have dark matter and normal

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Speaker 1: matter and photons all acting very differently and creating different

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Speaker 1: slashing patterns. From looking at that slashing in the cosmic

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Speaker 1: microwave background radiation, we can figure out that there was

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Speaker 1: dark matter and even measure how much of it there is,

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Speaker 1: and we can trace the history of dark matter's gravity

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Speaker 1: as it shapes the structure formation of the whole universe

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Speaker 1: why we have galaxies at all this early in the

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Speaker 1: history of the universe, And so dark matter is definitely

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Speaker 1: out there as a kind of matter, but we don't

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Speaker 1: know really what it is or very specifically where it is,

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Speaker 1: because it's so hard to see since it only feels gravity.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't feel any of the other forces that we've discovered.

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Speaker 5: And we can also sort of see dark matter right like,

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Speaker 5: we can see it in the same way that you

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Speaker 5: can see a lens or glass lens or example. You

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Speaker 5: can see how it distorts the light behind it, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We can see dark matter through gravity, and

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Speaker 1: so that means we can see stuff bending around dark matter.

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Speaker 1: We can see it holding galaxies together, and that even

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Speaker 1: impacts how light moves in the vicinity of dark matter.

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Speaker 1: If you have a big blob of dark matter between

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Speaker 1: you and some distant galaxy, for example, the photons from

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Speaker 1: that distant galaxy will bend as they move through that

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Speaker 1: dark matter, creating apparent distortions in your image. You can

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Speaker 1: even sometimes see the same galaxy twice in the sky

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Speaker 1: because of this gravitational lensing. And so we know that

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Speaker 1: it's out there, and we can use some techniques like

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Speaker 1: that to sometimes tell roughly where it is. But because

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Speaker 1: dark matter is so weak it's particles only feel gravity,

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Speaker 1: we think it's very difficult to figure out what exactly

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Speaker 1: is made out of to isolate one piece of dark matter,

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Speaker 1: because gravity is so weak that essentially a particle's gravity

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Speaker 1: is almost impossible to measure.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and dark matter is also something that's not just

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Speaker 5: out there in space. It's sort of like all around us,

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Speaker 5: right like it's floating through us right now, sort of

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Speaker 5: like the fourth you know, it flows through us, binds

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Speaker 5: us all together. It's made out of medtichlorians.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps perhaps, yeah, exactly, you'll only really understand it after

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Speaker 1: nine hundred years of study. That's a really good question,

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Speaker 1: and that's sort of the central question of this episode

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Speaker 1: is exactly where is the dark matter? And can we

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Speaker 1: find like concentrations of it? Can we map it out?

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Speaker 1: Because dark matter is so weakly interacting like only gravity,

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Speaker 1: it takes huge amounts of it to feel anything, and

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Speaker 1: so that makes it very hard to tell exactly where

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Speaker 1: the dark matter is. It might be that it's mostly

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Speaker 1: spread out evenly through the galaxy. It might be more

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Speaker 1: clumpy than that depends a lot on your particular theory

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Speaker 1: of dark matter. Where it exactly is. So it could

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Speaker 1: be that we are in a dark matter wind as

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Speaker 1: the Earth orbits the Sun and the Sun moves through

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Speaker 1: the galaxy. We could also be in a dark matter

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Speaker 1: liss bubble, a bubble of space in which there's comparatively

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Speaker 1: little dark matter. Or it could be that dark matter

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Speaker 1: is fairly dense in our area.

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Speaker 5: You know, I have to say, every time you say

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Speaker 5: dark matter wind, it makes me think of dark parts.

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Speaker 1: Elevating the discourse every week.

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Speaker 5: That's my job. That's why I'm here.

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Speaker 1: Smells.

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Speaker 5: It's all grounded or grounded or you know, flat as

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Speaker 5: in fletch wents. But anyways, so it's sort of all

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Speaker 5: around this, and I guess I'm wondering, like, if it

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Speaker 5: is all around us, would we be able to tell, Like,

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Speaker 5: you know, if let's say dark matter is flowing through

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Speaker 5: the Earth right now, or say it wasn't, would you

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Speaker 5: be able to tell the difference.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what these experiments are trying to measure. And

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Speaker 1: to give you a sense of the difficulty the challenge

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Speaker 1: of this, think about like why we didn't discover dark

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Speaker 1: matter earlier, just in studying how our Solar system moves.

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Speaker 1: We have now very precise measurements of the orbit of

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Speaker 1: Jupiter and Mars and all the planets and all the

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Speaker 1: little pieces of the Solar System as they orbit the Sun.

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Speaker 1: You might think, hey, if dark matter is here in

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Speaker 1: our Solar system and it has gravity, wouldn't it change

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Speaker 1: the way those things orbit? Shouldn't we be able to

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Speaker 1: detect it? But because we think dark matter might be

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Speaker 1: spread very thin, probably there isn't that much dark matter

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Speaker 1: in the vicinity of our Solar system. So even those

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Speaker 1: very very precise measurements you know, like knowing the motion

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Speaker 1: of Jupiter to meters or centimeters, can't detect dark matter

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Speaker 1: because it would be very thin and very spread out

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Speaker 1: and mostly we think homogeneous, which in the end doesn't

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Speaker 1: give much gravitational pull on the objects in the Solar System.

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Speaker 1: So it takes a very specialized, highly sensitive device to

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Speaker 1: be able to detect this dark matter.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then don't we say once like, if you

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Speaker 5: take all the dark matter that is potentially floating through

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Speaker 5: the Earth right now, it would only weigh about as

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Speaker 5: much as a squirrel or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, though that's very speculative, right. That assumes that

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Speaker 1: dark matter is essentially equally spread out in our galaxy,

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Speaker 1: which we don't believe is true. But if you assume

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Speaker 1: that there is, then we know our galaxy, for example,

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Speaker 1: is ninety five percent dark matter. That means for every

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Speaker 1: kilogram of matter made out of atoms like hydrogen and

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Speaker 1: helium or whatever, there's nineteen kilograms of matter made out

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Speaker 1: of whatever dark matter is made out of. And so

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Speaker 1: it's like nineteen to one in our galaxy.

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Speaker 5: Which sounds like a lot, but I guess also galaxies

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Speaker 5: kind of very empty mostly right, like it's probably like

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Speaker 5: ninety nine percent empty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Now, normal matter clumps up a lot, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the Sun is an extraordinarily dense collection of normal matter.

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Speaker 1: Normal matter is not spread evenly through the galaxy. But

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Speaker 1: if you take dark man and spread it evenly through

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Speaker 1: the galaxy, you get a pretty small density. It's like

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Speaker 1: ten to the twenty six kilograms per cubic light year,

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Speaker 1: which is a huge volume, which means it's like ten

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Speaker 1: to the negative twenty two kilograms per cubic meter. So

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Speaker 1: then if you add up all the cubic meters in

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Speaker 1: the Earth, that adds up to about two thirds of

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Speaker 1: a kilogram of dark matter inside the volume of the Earth. Again,

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Speaker 1: assuming that dark matter is evenly spread throughout the galaxy,

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Speaker 1: which it probably isn't, but it might be.

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Speaker 5: Roughly, which is about the size or mass of a squirrel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, So one squirrel of dark matter inside the

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Speaker 1: volume of the Earth compared to you know, the many,

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Speaker 1: many millions and billions of kilograms of normal matter inside

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Speaker 1: the volume of the Earth. That sounds the importance of clumping, right,

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Speaker 1: Because normal matter clumps together, it's gravity is much more powerful.

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Speaker 1: In our local neighborhood, than dark matter. Even though dark

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Speaker 1: matter outweighs normal matter by nineteen to one, if it's

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Speaker 1: much more thinly spread out, the local effects of its

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Speaker 1: gravity are much harder to detect.

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Speaker 5: I think maybe what you're saying is that dark matter,

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Speaker 5: in terms of the universe scale, it mostly hangs out

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Speaker 5: in galaxies. Like you don't see a lot of dark

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Speaker 5: matter floating out there on its own between galaxies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we can do really precise measurements of where dark

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Speaker 1: matter is on the galaxy scale, because galaxies are really

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Speaker 1: really big. If we can tell how galaxies are orbiting

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Speaker 1: around each other, just the way we can tell how

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Speaker 1: stars are moving through the galaxy, so enormous clumps of

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Speaker 1: dark matter, absolutely, we can measure their gravity. But when

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Speaker 1: you zoom in in a really fine grained way and

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Speaker 1: want to say, hey, is there a moon sized blob

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Speaker 1: of dark matter anywhere in our solar system, that's a

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Speaker 1: tough question to answer.

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Speaker 5: So then within the galaxy, you're saying, like, there's a

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Speaker 5: lot of dark matter within our galaxy. Ninety five percent

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Speaker 5: of the mass of our galaxy is dark matter, And

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Speaker 5: what does it look like. Does it look like, you know,

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Speaker 5: an intense dense ball of dark matter in the middle,

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Speaker 5: is it evenly distributed? And also, like our galaxy looks

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Speaker 5: like a disc sort of like a flat disk, is

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Speaker 5: dark matter also shaped like a flat disk.

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Speaker 1: So we have the best answers the more we zoom out,

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Speaker 1: and then as we zoom in things get literally funny.

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Speaker 1: But on the scale of the galaxy we have some ideas.

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Speaker 1: We think that dark matter is like a big halo.

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Speaker 1: So imagine the visible galaxy right the edge of the stars.

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Speaker 1: Dark matter is a big halo that goes out beyond

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Speaker 1: the visible stars, and it's bigger and fuzzier. It hasn't

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Speaker 1: collapsed the way normal matter has because it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: clump right. In order to clump, things need other kinds

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Speaker 1: of interaction other than gravity. Like if you have two

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Speaker 1: dark matter particles they attract each other gravitationally and then

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Speaker 1: just passed right through each other. They're just gonna zig

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Speaker 1: and zag back and forth oscillate forever. They're not going

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Speaker 1: to clump together. To do that, you need like electromagnetism

440
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: or the strong force or something that wants to grab

441
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: onto each other. So dark matter stays a big puffy

442
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: halo and the galaxy is sort of embedded in that halo,

443
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: and that's not a coincidence. Right. The reason the galaxy

444
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: exists is because of a big dark matter blob there

445
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: that's gathered together all the hydrogen helium gravitationally and made

446
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 1: it into a galaxy. It's the reason we have stars, etc.

447
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 5: Now, when you say halo, you don't actually mean like

448
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 5: an angel's halo that looks like a ring. You actually

449
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 5: mean just like a blob, right.

450
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, like a big fuzzy blob that extends out

451
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: further along the disc and then further above and below

452
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: the disc. But even that we know already is not

453
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: evenly distributed.

454
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 5: Is it like football shaped? Is it kind of flat?

455
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 5: Or is it a perfect sphere.

456
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: It's more like a hockey puck, right, It's flat, but

457
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 1: not as flat as the galaxy itself.

458
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 5: What made it flat?

459
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe a hockey puck is the wrong analogy. It's

460
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 1: not quite that flat. It's more like a big ellipsoid.

461
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 5: You mean like a slightly squished ball.

462
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. It's like a big basketball that somebody's sitting

463
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: on or something.

464
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 5: All right, Well, let's get a little bit more into

465
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 5: the details of what we know about dark matter, how

466
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 5: much of it can we see, how much can we

467
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 5: discern about what it's doing in our universe? And we'll

468
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 5: answer the question of whether you can use a quantum

469
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 5: clock from Amazon dot com to detect it. So we'll

470
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 5: get to those questions, but first let's take a quick break.

471
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,000
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Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

534
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

535
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

536
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: but the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

537
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

538
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

539
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

540
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

541
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

542
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,359
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543
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Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

544
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

545
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548
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549
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,359
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550
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Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

551
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552
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 5: All right, we're asking the question can you use quantum

553
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 5: clocks to deteg dark matter? And we've been recapping a

554
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 5: little bit about what we know about dark matter, Daniel.

555
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 5: How much of the details of it can we see?

556
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: Not really very much. We have this sense of a big,

557
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: fuzzy halo that surrounds the galaxy, and we can also

558
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: measure the density as a function of distance from the center.

559
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: So if you're a star, for example, orbiting the center

560
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: of the galaxy, the speed at which you orbit depends

561
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: on the force that's holding you in that orbit. So

562
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: the stronger the force, the faster you can go, or

563
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: the faster you can go, the stronger the force that's

564
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: needed to hold you in that orbit. So by measuring

565
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: the speed of a given star, we can essentially measure

566
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: the mass of all that stuff that's holding on to

567
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: that star. So then if you look at stars at

568
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: different distances from the center, you can basically map out

569
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: the density of stuff in the galaxy as you go

570
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: further and closer to the center of the galaxy.

571
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 5: Like, if dark matter was super condensed in the middle

572
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 5: of the galaxy, then the stars in the galaxy we'd

573
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 5: be rotating a certain way. Or if the dark matter

574
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 5: was more spread out then the stars in the galaxy

575
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 5: we'd be rotating in a different way.

576
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, if all the dark matter in the galaxy

577
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: was at the center, then everything would act in a

578
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: certain way, would just go like one over are squared.

579
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: It's sort of like the way the Solar system orbits

580
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: the Sun. But if you take some of that mass

581
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: and you spread it out through the galaxy instead, then

582
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: the dark matter that's further out than a given star

583
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: doesn't affect its orbit because it's gravity all cancels out.

584
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: So that changes the rotation speed of those stars, and

585
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: that's in fact how we first discover dark matter. Was

586
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: by looking at these rotation speeds of stars around the

587
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: center of the galaxy and seeing that we couldn't explain

588
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: it by mapping all the mass from the stars and

589
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: the gas and the dust. And that's exactly how you

590
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: can tell where you need to add more mass to

591
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: explain these rotation speeds. It's not just like, hey, add

592
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: a big blob of the center. You need to add

593
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: some of the center and also some further out and

594
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: some further out, and so precise measurements of those velocities

595
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: give you a fairly accurate picture of where the dark

596
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: matter is in the galaxy. And it's not evenly spread out.

597
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: It's more densely clumped at the center, which is something you'd.

598
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 5: Expect because it is affected by gravity, right.

599
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: It is, in the end affected by gravity, and so

600
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: it's pulled itself together. And the whole reason that this

601
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: exists is because of some like early universe perturbation where

602
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: you had a denser blob of dark matter that created

603
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: this whole well, gathered together the other dark matter and

604
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: created this over density which then pulled in hydrogen, helium

605
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: and whatever was around to make a galaxy. So it's

606
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: a little bit denser at the center, though it's not

607
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: very well understood, like if we do calculations simulations to

608
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: describe what we think should happen. If you have a

609
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: bunch of dark matter and you give it a few

610
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: billion years to fall together and to form some structure,

611
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: it describes what astronomers call a cusp, which means like

612
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 1: a point of high density of the center and then

613
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: very steeply falling should like drop off quickly. But if

614
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: you go out and measure the actual distributions of stars velocities,

615
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: you see something that looks like a bigger core. It's

616
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: not like it's pointing near the center. It's more spread

617
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: out in the inner galaxy. It's like flatter, and so

618
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: this is not something we understand very well. And it

619
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: also gives you a sense of like the scale of

620
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: which we can figure this stuff out. We're talking about

621
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: over light years distances, right, We're not resolving dark matter

622
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: in meters or even in aus with very very coarse

623
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: ways to measure where the dark matter is again, because

624
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: its gravity is so weak.

625
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 5: Are you saying like the beginning of the universe, dark

626
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 5: matter was more evenly spread out, like you know, all

627
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 5: those light years of empty space between US and Andromeda

628
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 5: and other galaxies was all filled with dark matter, and

629
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 5: then it all colleutes through certain clusters.

630
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely gathered itself together. The early universe had

631
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: initial density fluctuations, and that's a whole big question about

632
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: where exactly that came from. And then those seated gravity

633
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: to pull things together. So gravity does form structure, but

634
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: it takes time. And so yeah, dark matter was more

635
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: spread out and now it's less spread out.

636
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 5: Why would dark matter stay stuck together?

637
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: Well, it's not that dark matter is sticking together. It's

638
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: not like it's bonded to itself. And again we don't

639
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: really know because we don't have a microscopic picture of

640
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: the dark matter. But I think you're asking, like, why

641
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: does dark matter form even gravitational structures? Like why does

642
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: it get more dense in some places and then in others?

643
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: Is that what you're asking?

644
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I'm imagining at the beginning of the universe

645
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 5: there's a bit of dark matter that was, you know,

646
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 5: let's say, ten light years away, and then it got

647
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 5: attracted to our galaxy, so it flew over here. But

648
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 5: then why didn't just keep flying to the other side.

649
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So as that distant piece of dark matter approaches

650
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: the galaxy, it gains velocity. Right, it's exchanging gravitational potential

651
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: energy for kinetic energy. And then you're imagining like the

652
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: way a ball rolls down a valley, why doesn't it

653
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: roll back up the other side? And it will, yes,

654
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: but then it comes back right, And so gravity in

655
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: the end is organizing something. There's the second piece to that,

656
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: which is that it doesn't completely roll back up the

657
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: other side. You know, anything that's accelerating is emitting gravitational

658
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: radiation for example. So the reason, for example, two black

659
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: holes orbiting each other will eventually spiral in and collapse

660
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: is that they're emitting gravitational energy. So none of these

661
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: things are really stable. So over long periods of time,

662
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: even without inelastic interactions like electromagnetism or whatever, these things

663
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: will form very large structures and they will gradually collapse

664
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: due to gravitational radiation.

665
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 5: All right, so we kind of have a fuzzy picture

666
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 5: of where it is in the universe. So now the

667
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 5: question of the episode is can we use quantum clocks

668
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 5: to detect dark matter? How do quantum clocks fit into this?

669
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: So quantum clocks might give us a sense for where

670
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: the dark matter is if we can find a place

671
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: where it's like clumpy, if we can find a place

672
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: in our solar system where it's like gathered together for

673
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: some reason. And that would be really cool, because not

674
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: only would it help us detect what dark matter is,

675
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: but it would help us understand where it is. It's

676
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: a really deep mystery. I think, not just because we

677
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: want to understand dark matter, but because we want like

678
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: a map. You know, humans are visual creatures. We want

679
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: to know like where the stuff is, and just not

680
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: knowing where dark matter is in the universe really bugs me.

681
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: So I would love to know where it is, and

682
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: understanding its map on a finer scale would be really helpful.

683
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: And quantum clocks might be able to help us map

684
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: where dark matter is if we can send them out

685
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: into space and if they're sensitive to dark matter, if

686
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: their operation changes as they pass through dark matter.

687
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 5: Okay, I think you're saying that you know, at the

688
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 5: galaxy level, we know that it looks like a big blob.

689
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 5: It's sort of like a switch ball. It's sort of

690
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 5: more intense or more dense in the center of the galaxy.

691
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 5: But I think maybe you're saying, can we know in

692
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 5: finer detail what it looks like between stars within the galaxy,

693
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 5: like is it clumpy, is it chunky, or is it

694
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 5: like peanut butter.

695
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: Smooth exactly, And people have tackled this problem in the past,

696
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: Like people use the technique you mentioned gravitation lensing to

697
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: look for blobs of dark matter, and that works, and

698
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: it's powerful, but only if you have like a really

699
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: nice galaxy behind the blob of dark matter that can

700
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: show you that it's there, so that tells us a

701
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: little bit about the dark matter density. But there aren't

702
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: like galaxies in all the right places to like X

703
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: ray the whole Solar system and figure out where it is.

704
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: And that technique isn't always powerful enough. You need like

705
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: a really big blob of dark matter. Another technique people

706
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: have used is to look for dwarf galaxies. Essentially, our

707
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: galaxy is formed by the combination of lots of galaxies, right,

708
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: we think galaxies formed kind of small and then grew

709
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: together with all sorts of absorptions and collisions. That means

710
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: that our galaxy has other like mini galaxies embedded within it.

711
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: Some of these we call dwarf galaxies because they're small,

712
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: and we think they're like very high dark matter density

713
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: therew stars, and so we can look at the motion

714
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: of the stars inside those little galaxies to get sensors

715
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: for like where those blobs are. But we don't have

716
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: a great way to like X ray the Solar System

717
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: and figure out, like where is the dark matter in

718
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: our Solar system? Is it hanging out by Jupiter? Is

719
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: it spread evenly like peanut butter? What's going on?

720
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 5: You want to know it's distribution at the Solar system

721
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 5: scale exactly.

722
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: That's what I want to do. And I read a

723
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: recent paper which was very clever, which is looking at

724
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: asteroids and trying to track asteroid trajectories and see if

725
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: like tiny little deviations in the trajectory of asteroids or

726
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: comets as they move through the Solar System could reveal

727
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: the presence of dark matter. It's very difficult to do

728
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: because if dark matter is evenly spread out or only

729
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: a little bit clumpy, that'd be basically no effect on

730
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: those asteroids. But it's the kind of thing that we're

731
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: just on the verge of being able to potentially do

732
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: now that we have better measurements and better computational tools

733
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: to try to like infer this information from really specific measurements.

734
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 5: All right, So then how would you use a quantum

735
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 5: clock to deteg dark matter?

736
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: So when we talk about a quantum clock, really what

737
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: we mean is something which is based on fundamental quantum

738
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: mechanical principles. And you know it sounds fancy, but even

739
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: just like an atomic clock, is a quantum clock. An

740
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: atomic clock is something that looks at like the oscillation

741
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: of electron between two energy levels and a caesium atom,

742
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: which is a very precise, very very regular process that

743
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: we can use essentially to tell how time has passed,

744
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: and so on Earth, we have extraordinarily precise atomic clocks

745
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: which now set the standard and in fact define what

746
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: we mean by a second. A second used to have

747
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: a different definition, but now a second is defined as

748
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: like a certain number of cycle of a specific kind

749
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: of atom. That's literally how we measure time now, and

750
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: so it's the standard.

751
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 5: It's like the minute, like it used to be like

752
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 5: a minute with sixty seconds, but now people say, oh,

753
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 5: it's been a minute to really mean something totally different.

754
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: Yes, it's just like that exactly, and we call it

755
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: a quantum clock because this really is a quantum process

756
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about quantum particles. There's an electron, there's an atom.

757
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: The electron is moving in the potential well of the atom,

758
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: so it's interacting electromagnetically with the nucleus. And the way

759
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: that it's moving, the way it oscillates between energy levels,

760
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: is completely controlled by quantum processes. This is not a

761
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: clock that you could have in a perfectly classical universe.

762
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 1: You know, if we lived in a universe where electrons

763
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: really were tiny little balls that went to orbits and

764
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: had smooth classical paths the way planets do, then this

765
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: clock could not exist. And so that's when we meet

766
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: by quantum clock.

767
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 5: But I guess, if it's a quantum clock, doesn't it

768
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 5: have a certain amount of uncertainty to it or unknowability?

769
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 5: How can it be precise if there's the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

770
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, there's no absolutely precise quantum clock. But

771
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: this is about as regular as it gets. And amazingly,

772
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: these quantum clocks are more precise than mechanical clocks, which

773
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: of course also have uncertainty in them, because no mechanical

774
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: device is perfect created, right, And so this is as

775
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: accurate as they've been able to make them, and recently

776
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: they've been even able to make them small and transportable.

777
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: You might think of an atomic clock as like some

778
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: huge device in the basement of a laboratory in Colorado

779
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: that weighs like ten tons and fills a room. But

780
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: actually these things can be made quite small.

781
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 5: So a quantum clock is really just an atomic clock

782
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 5: or is there another kind that doesn't use atoms?

783
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: There's no atomic clock that's not a quantum clock. So

784
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 1: quantum clock is just a fancier sounding name for atomic clock.

785
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 5: Yes, can you have a quantum clock that maybe doesn't

786
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 5: use an atom, that maybe just relies on electrons or

787
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 5: quarks or something.

788
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, you're not limited to atoms. You can imagine

789
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: quantum clocks made out of like photons interacting or splitting

790
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 1: or bouncing or something like that. In some sense, lego

791
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: is a clock because it's measuring the time for photons

792
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: to travel along its legs, right, it's just converting that

793
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: to a distance measurement. And so you could have other

794
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: quantum clocks that are not based on atoms. Yes, And

795
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: one day, when we discover dark matter, maybe we could

796
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: build a clock out of dark.

797
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 5: Matter, which may or may not tell you the time.

798
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: And may or may not smell like flatulence.

799
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 5: Well, I guess maybe give us an example of, like

800
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 5: what's a typical or popular or a commonly used quantum

801
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 5: clock and how does it work.

802
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: Well, the most precise quantum clock is based on the

803
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: caesium one thirty three atom. That's the one that's actually

804
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: used to define what a second is. And so here

805
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: we have two states of electrons. There's a small splitting

806
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: in an energy in state here. It's called a hyper

807
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: fine splitting because the difference is very very small, and

808
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 1: when the electron sits in there, it sort of goes

809
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 1: back and forth between the two different states.

810
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 5: Meaning like, this is an electron that's orbiting around the

811
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 5: caesium atom.

812
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't say orbiting if we want to be

813
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: really really technical, But it's captured by the caesium atom.

814
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 5: And you're saying it's switching energy levels. Why would it

815
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 5: switch energy levels?

816
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: So you have this caesium atom and you embed the

817
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: whole thing in some microwave radiation that can lift those

818
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: electrons up from the lower state to the higher.

819
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 5: State, meaning you like put it in a microwave or

820
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 5: you shoot it with it like a light gun.

821
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: There's not a difference, right, that's what a microwave is.

822
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: A microwave is shooting microwave radiation at your food, and

823
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: microwaves are lights. Though basically a microwave is a light gun.

824
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 5: Sounds hot. So then you have this atom and you

825
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 5: you stick it in the microwave.

826
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: Uh huh, yeah, So you stick in the microwave and

827
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: you measure how often it jumps up and then down

828
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: and then up and then.

829
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 5: Down because the light, as the light passes through it,

830
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 5: it knocks the electron up and down or what.

831
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, the light is tuned to exactly the frequency for

832
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: the electron to jump up into the higher energy level. Remember,

833
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: electrons can go from a lower to a higher energy

834
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: level if a photon of the right energy comes along.

835
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: So they've tuned this microwave to exactly that energy level.

836
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: So electrons and the lower level can absorb these photons

837
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: jump up to the higher level. But then they'll naturally

838
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: decay down because the universe likes to spread energy out

839
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: and so the time of these oscillations turns out to

840
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: be very very regular, Like an electron will do this

841
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: nine point one nine two billion times per second.

842
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 5: And it doesn't depend on the frequency of the light,

843
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 5: or it does.

844
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: It definitely depends on the frequency of the light. If

845
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: the frequency of the light is not correct, then it

846
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: won't even absorb it, right, it won't happen.

847
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 5: Oh, but then don't you need to make that frequency

848
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 5: super precise?

849
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And this is one source of uncertainty in

850
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: these clocks, right, making those accurate. And you can measure

851
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: these things, like you build two independent ones, you can

852
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: see how their counts drift relative to each other. And

853
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: that's how you measure the accuracy of clocks. In general.

854
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: There's no absolute standard by which you can tell like, oh,

855
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: this clock is off or that clock is off. You

856
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: just build a few of them and you measure them

857
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: relative to each other. And this is something that we

858
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: know well enough. We know how to design the mean

859
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: of the physics and the engineering that you can build

860
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: these things so that atomic clocks in independent locations agree

861
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: to zero point three nanoseconds per day. It's really very

862
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: incredibly precise.

863
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 5: WHOA, so what are you measuring? How are you measuring

864
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 5: whether these electrons are going up and down?

865
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 1: When the electron goes back down. It emits radiation, right,

866
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: and so you can gather that as well.

867
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 5: Like it shoots off light like an a blink.

868
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: Basically exactly little flash.

869
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 5: All right. So then, and you're saying you can build

870
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 5: these things now to be the size of a toaster

871
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 5: or a microwave oven.

872
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: A quantum toaster. They have them now and they've deployed

873
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: them out in space. They actually built the Deep Space

874
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: Atomic Clock Mission and they sent an atomic clock out

875
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: into space to see, like, hey, can we operate one

876
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: of these things out in space? And you might wonder

877
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: like is this just a bunch of nerds trying to

878
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: do something that seems cool? Yes, is always the answer.

879
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 5: Like can we shoot a microwave into space and will

880
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 5: it still heat up my burrito? My season Burritoah? Is

881
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 5: that the challenge?

882
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: That's the challenge. But also if we want to do

883
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: things like navigate in space, navigation needs timing. You need

884
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: to know like how long you're going in one direction.

885
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: If you want to do dead reckoning, you want to

886
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: know where you are. Timing is absolutely crucial. Or if

887
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: you want to use like nearby pulsars to triangulate your position,

888
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: I have whole episode about how that works. You also

889
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: need very accurate timing so you can measure the time

890
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: between the pulses. So this was like a technological challenge

891
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: that's going to lay the groundwork for all sorts of

892
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 1: cool innovations, and this was totally successful in this deep

893
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: space atomic clock mission.

894
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 5: Well, let's get into how you would actually use these

895
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 5: and how the timing might tell you where dark matter

896
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 5: is within our Solar system and maybe even within the Earth.

897
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 5: So let's dig into that. But first, let's take another

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Speaker 5: All right. We're talking about using a microwave stuck inside

960
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 5: of a microwave to the tech dark matter so you

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Speaker 5: can win a Tierra for being the prettiest scientist.

962
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: Exactly does it take longer to heat up your burrito

963
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: when there's dark matter around?

964
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 5: So the idea is that you take these atomic or

965
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 5: basically an atomic clock, which is a quantum clock. But

966
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 5: it seems like the most popular ones use atoms, and

967
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 5: so you shrink them down to the size of a

968
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 5: toaster or microwave, and then you shoot them in space.

969
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 5: And then how does that help you measure dark matter?

970
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: Well, there were a bunch of physicists who thought, Okay,

971
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: this is cool because now we not only have all

972
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: some super precise atomic clocks, but now we have them

973
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: spread out through the Solar system, like in principle the

974
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: way we like scent devices near the Sun with a

975
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 1: Parker solar probe. People are like, what if we built

976
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: a bunch of these things and we spread them out

977
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: in the Solar system? Could they give us a picture

978
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: of where the dark matter is in the Solar system?

979
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: If they operate differently when there's dark matter around, like

980
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: if they're sensitive to the dark matter density, Like if

981
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: your atomic clock gets off if it drifts when there's

982
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: more or less dark matter around, than having a bunch

983
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: of these atomic clocks spread out through the Solar system

984
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: could give you a picture for where in the Solar

985
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: System the dark matter is.

986
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 5: But I guess what's the mechanism by which dark matter

987
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 5: would affect the timing of these clocks.

988
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so mostly it wouldn't For many theories of dark matter.

989
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: Dark matter is just some whimp. It's a massive particle

990
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: that only interacts gravitationally, and so it has essentially no

991
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: effect on these clocks except for gravitational time dilation. We

992
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: know the areas with greater mass have more curvature, and

993
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: a curvature causes time dilation, but that would be very,

994
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: very difficult to measure even with these quantum clocks.

995
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 5: But wait, why would it be difficult.

996
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: You can measure gravitational time dilation with quantum clocks, and

997
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: we've done that. You can do it on the surface

998
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: of the Earth, for example, and you can put a

999
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: quantum clock one meter above another one and you can

1000
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: see the difference between them because one of them is

1001
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: deeper in the curvature than the other. Super duper awesome,

1002
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: but that's because the Earth has a huge amount of

1003
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: gravity and this significant curvature. Here. Dark matter doesn't contribute

1004
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: significantly to the curvature because it's pretty spread out. And

1005
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: we would already know if dark matter wasn't pretty spread out,

1006
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: because we would have seen deviations and like Jupiter's orbit

1007
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: and whatever. So in principle you can, but we don't

1008
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: think it's going to be very sensitive. If you had

1009
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: a lot of quantum clocks and there were much more sensitive,

1010
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: then you could probably detect dark matter local density variations

1011
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: using that principle.

1012
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 5: Meaning these clocks would tick at a different frequency depending

1013
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 5: on how close it was to big sources of mass

1014
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 5: or even light sources of mass, because that's just how

1015
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 5: relativity works.

1016
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how relativity works. Remember, in relativity, it is

1017
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: two kinds of time dilation. One is based on speed.

1018
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: If you see a clock moving quickly, then you see

1019
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: it ticking slowly, and that's very confusing because it's relative,

1020
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: and so it depends on two observers. But there's another

1021
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: kind of time dilation, gravitational, which is absolute. It just

1022
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 1: says anybody in curature their clock is going to tick slowly,

1023
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: no matter who's looking at it, and everybody's going to

1024
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 1: agree about whose clock is ticking slowly. So that's very

1025
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: powerful and that's something you can use to measure just

1026
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: like how much stuff is there in general, because clocks

1027
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: tick slower near stuff. Really kind of awesome feature of.

1028
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 5: The universe, meaning like if I had two of these

1029
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 5: atomic clocks and one of them is out there in

1030
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 5: the middle of empty space, and the other one is

1031
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 5: near a big blob of dark matter. The one near

1032
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 5: the blob of dark matter would take slower.

1033
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's exactly right.

1034
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 5: And so you might like start them out in the

1035
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 5: same spot. But then after being for a while and

1036
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 5: two different spots, one near the dark matter, and you

1037
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 5: brun them back, you would see that one of them

1038
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 5: take more ticks than the other.

1039
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so now imagine like a grid, you have

1040
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: a quantum clock every ten meters in the solar system, right,

1041
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 1: you start them all out at the same time, and

1042
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: then you monitor it, and by measuring the difference in

1043
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: that number of ticks after a year on your reference clock,

1044
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,399
Speaker 1: the one that's hanging out with you, you can tell

1045
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: where stuff is in the solar system.

1046
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 5: Like which spots in the solar system have slower time.

1047
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, because slower time means more matter, more curvature,

1048
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: more energy density.

1049
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 5: Really, I guess, on top of what you already know

1050
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 5: about the Solar system right like right now, even if

1051
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 5: we didn't have dark matter, a clock near the Sun

1052
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 5: would takes lower than a clock here exactly.

1053
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: And we've done some basic version of this, as I

1054
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 1: said earlier, if a few clocks on Earth at different altitudes.

1055
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: Those are different distances from the matter of the Earth,

1056
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: and the ones closer do ticks more slowly, And satellites

1057
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: up in space their clocks tick faster than atomic clocks

1058
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: here on the surface of the Earth, And you've got

1059
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: to take that new account famously when you're doing GPS,

1060
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: et cetera.

1061
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 5: But you're saying, we're not going to be using this effect,

1062
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 5: this time dilation from relativity to measure dark matter. Dark

1063
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 5: matter is just too weak.

1064
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: Dark matter is too weak, and we think it's not

1065
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: cluppy enough to really detect that, though it would be

1066
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: super awesome. There's a special kind of dark matter which

1067
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: might give much larger effects, which would be much easier

1068
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: to discover. And this is a theory called fuzzy dark matter.

1069
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 5: Sounds fuzzy. But wait, so you're saying, like this idea

1070
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 5: of using atomic clocks to measure dark matter would only

1071
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 5: work for a certain theoretical meaning guessie type of dark matter,

1072
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 5: which we don't know whether it's true or not, or

1073
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 5: exist or not.

1074
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm.

1075
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 5: So this is a huge sources in white scheme that

1076
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 5: you don't really know if it's going to work.

1077
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 1: You know, you were talking about nomenclature and now you're

1078
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 1: using the words guess and scheme, you know, really kind

1079
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: of undermine the credibility of science. But you know, this

1080
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: is good faith stuff. This is like, hey, what if

1081
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: dark matter is this other weird particular thing, how could

1082
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: we see that? And yet it'd be best if we

1083
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: had experiments which could detect any kind of dark matter,

1084
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: But you know, there might be kinds of dark matter

1085
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: which we could only detect in certain ways or easier

1086
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: to spot in some ways. And so it's good to

1087
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: be creative and think about how we could detect specific

1088
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: kinds of dark matter as well, even though we don't

1089
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: know what dark matter is. And if this theory is at.

1090
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 5: All correct, well, I'm just trying to understand the scheme.

1091
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 5: So are you saying there's a theoretical kind of dark

1092
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 5: matter called fuzzy dark matter? So what is it?

1093
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 4: So?

1094
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: Fuzzy dark matter suggests that maybe dark matter isn't very massive,

1095
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: like some people suggest that dark matter could be like

1096
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: one hundred GeV like the mass of a w or

1097
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: a z boson, like one hundred times the mass of

1098
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: a proton, a pretty hefty particle, almost as massive as

1099
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: a Higgs. That's sort of the classic strategy, and there's

1100
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 1: reasons for that. There's something called the Wimp miracle. Check

1101
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: on our podcast about that, which argues strongly that dark

1102
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: matter should be around one hundred gv based on how

1103
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: much of it there is in the universe. But people

1104
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: are like, well, maybe that's all wrong, and there's an

1105
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 1: assumption there that's wrong. What if dark matter is super

1106
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: duper light, like a trilliance the mass of an electron.

1107
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 1: So now there's an enormous number of these dark matter particles,

1108
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: so many more than you could even imagine, because you

1109
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: have to somehow make like a big fraction of the

1110
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: mass of the universe out of particles that are a

1111
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: tiny fraction in the mass of the electron, which is

1112
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: already very very light.

1113
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I think this whole podcast is

1114
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 5: a Wimp miracle, Daniel. But I think you're saying, like

1115
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 5: this version of dark matter, instead of being maybe marble

1116
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 5: sized particles, they're like super tiny BB sized particles, And

1117
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 5: some of that makes it fuzzier.

1118
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes it fuzzier because if they're very very

1119
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: low mass, then their wavelengths are more spread out. Some

1120
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 1: of these things can have a wavelength like the size

1121
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: of the galaxy.

1122
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 5: What do you mean a wavelength.

1123
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 1: The wavelength of a particle is like the distance on

1124
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: which these quantum interference effects appear, and so you can

1125
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: calculate this quantity. It's called the Debrogely wavelength. You'll see

1126
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: wave like effects for a particle when you interact over

1127
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: these kinds of distances, and that's the wavelength of a particle.

1128
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 5: Meaning sort of like the size of it.

1129
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 1: Kind of right, sort of, Yeah, it's when it stops

1130
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: acting like a blob like a particle and starts acting

1131
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: more like a wave. Things that have wavelike behaviors. Really

1132
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: it's always acting like a wave. It's just that when

1133
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: you zoom out you can approximate it as a particle.

1134
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 5: Because they have low mass. What's the relationship between having

1135
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 5: low mass and being having big wavelengths.

1136
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: Well, the wavelength depends on your momentum and your mass.

1137
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: So lower mass just means a larger wavelength because it's

1138
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: really like a ratio between the momentum and the mass.

1139
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: When things have a lot of kinetic energy relative to

1140
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: their mass, they act more like light because light is

1141
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: pure kinetic energy. Have very small amounts of energy relative

1142
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: to their mass their stationary so they act more like

1143
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: bits of sand like particles. And so it's just sort

1144
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,760
Speaker 1: of a rough way to understand where that transition happens.

1145
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 5: Okay, so then if dark matter is this kind of

1146
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 5: fuzzy kind of dark matter, you're saying that each particle

1147
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 5: would be super super light, and it would also have

1148
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 5: huge variations in their size. That's what you mean by fuzzy.

1149
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 5: It's like they might be some of them might be

1150
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,240
Speaker 5: super big and somewhere might be super small.

1151
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, the wavelengths could be very very large, which

1152
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 1: means they can interact over long distances. The fascinating thing

1153
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 1: is that in simulations of this dark matter, it predicts

1154
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: like a mini halo of dark matter in our Solar system,

1155
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: essentially that this stuff would be clumped up in and

1156
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: near the Sun. That most of the dark matter in

1157
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: the Solar System might be like clumped up near the Sun.

1158
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,720
Speaker 1: It might be like hiding in the Sun.

1159
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 5: And if it wasn't this kind of fuzzy dark matter,

1160
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 5: it wouldn't.

1161
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,479
Speaker 1: Now, this kind of fuzzy dark matter is the kind

1162
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 1: we think would clump up like a halo near the Sun.

1163
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 5: And the other kinds wouldn't.

1164
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the other kinds wouldn't. As I mean, I've heard

1165
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: of other theories of dark matter clumping in the Sun.

1166
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of theories, but this particular one tends

1167
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: to make a halo near the Sun and would affect

1168
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: the operation of quantum clocks because of its special fuzziness.

1169
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: It can also slightly interact with electrons through sort of

1170
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: like a back door in quantum mechanics, which would change

1171
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 1: the way a quantum clock operates. It's like it changes

1172
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 1: the electrons' mass and how it responds to photons because

1173
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: of oscillations in this fuzzy dark matter field, and so

1174
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: effectively it changes the frequency of these clocks. And so

1175
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: you can detect in principle whether you're near a dense

1176
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: blob of this ultra light dark matter by looking at

1177
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: a quantum clock and counting its ticks very carefully. And

1178
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: this would be a bigger effect than the effect we

1179
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: talked about earlier, the gravitational curvature.

1180
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 5: But I thought that dark matter couldn't interact with regular

1181
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 5: matter only through it could only do it through gravity.

1182
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could only do it through gravity in general,

1183
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: But this one takes a back door through the Higgs field.

1184
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: It like interacts with the Higgs field and it changes

1185
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: how the Higgs field works. And so near the presence

1186
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: of this ultra light dark matter, electrons effectively have a

1187
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: different mass.

1188
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 5: But I guess if that was true, wouldn't we see

1189
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 5: it affect regular matter on a larger scale.

1190
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: You would see it happen, but it's a subtle effect,

1191
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: and so you need to be near a dense clump

1192
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: of it. So the idea is, take something that's very

1193
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: very sensitive to the electron mass, like a quantum clock,

1194
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: and try to put it near a dense clump of

1195
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: this special ultra light dark matter, maybe near the Sun.

1196
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: So that's the idea is, like launch a bunch of

1197
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 1: quantum clocks, have them orbit near the Sun, and look

1198
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: for deviations in their timekeeping and see if that's evidence

1199
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: for ultra light dark matter interfering with the masses of

1200
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: the electrons in these quantum clocks.

1201
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 5: We mean that you would maybe like throw a bunch

1202
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 5: of the sun, have them kind of form a half

1203
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 5: ring around the Sun to see if time changes there,

1204
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 5: sort of like a giant tirra.

1205
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: Like a giant tr a quantum cosmic tiara.

1206
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 5: All right, but I guess which one would you be proving.

1207
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 5: Would you be proving that dark matter is fuzzy or

1208
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 5: would you be proved that it's there? Or are they

1209
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 5: both related?

1210
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: They're both related.

1211
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 4: Though.

1212
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: You know, if we saw this thing, there would instantly

1213
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: be like fifty other theories to explain it as well.

1214
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: It probably wouldn't be a unique prediction of this kind

1215
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: of dark matter. Theories are very very clever people, and

1216
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: they'll always come up with another way to explain the

1217
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: data that we're seeing. But it's cool because it's a

1218
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: prediction that this theory makes and we go out and

1219
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: we see it. That's really fascinating, and then we can

1220
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: think about ways to distinguish all the different ideas that

1221
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: might also explain this kind of observation. It would just

1222
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: be cool to see something different. Currently, all of our

1223
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: dark matter experiments basically see nothing. It would be cool

1224
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: to have a signal somewhere.

1225
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 5: So you're thinking, hey, let's put up a bunch of

1226
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 5: microways in space and see if at sticks exactly.

1227
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: Let's see if one burrito is a little bit colder

1228
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: than another.

1229
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 5: All right, Well, an interesting idea for how we could

1230
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 5: maybe possibly crack sort of a theoretical version of one

1231
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 5: of the biggest mysteries in the universe.

1232
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: That's right. Physicists are being very creative and trying to

1233
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: come up with new theories of dark matter and new

1234
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: ways to discover them, including using super duper sets in

1235
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: and quantum clocks distributed through the solar system, which also

1236
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: would just be fun to do.

1237
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 5: You just want to parade, Daniel, I.

1238
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: Just want a tiara? Is that too much to ask?

1239
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 5: How about we just buy you a tiara?

1240
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: Is it made of dark matter? Are you using your bitcoin?

1241
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 5: It can be, but in any way that you want.

1242
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 5: But if it saves tax dollars billions of dollars, you know,

1243
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 5: it would be a pretty good investment.

1244
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go. That was my scheme the whole time.

1245
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, to get us to buy you a tiara without

1246
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 5: actually having to run in a beauty contest.

1247
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm busted.

1248
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 5: Well, you are the most beautiful podcaster with a show

1249
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 5: called Daniel Jorge is playing the universe. So whose name

1250
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 5: is Daniels?

1251
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: I'll take very highly qualified compliments, thank you.

1252
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 5: It's a very specific tiara based on a very theoretical

1253
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 5: model of the.

1254
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: Universe fuzzy compliments from Warhead.

1255
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 5: All right, well, we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for

1256
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 5: joining us. See you next time.

1257
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social

1258
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Disport, Instant,

1259
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening and remember that Daniel

1260
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

1261
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 4: That's odoo dot com.

1305
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: Good job.

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01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 11: Thanks,