Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make and where they lead us. I
Speaker 1: am so excited for my guests today. Not only do
Speaker 1: they have a huge heart, but they are someone who
Speaker 1: is putting so much good back out into the world
Speaker 1: and spreading a message of love and positivity. And I'm
Speaker 1: all about that. My guest today is known for being
Speaker 1: a part of the Fab Five on Netflix's Emmy winning
Speaker 1: Queer Eye. He's an author, an LGBTQIA plus activist, and
Speaker 1: he is the host of his very own talk show.
Speaker 1: Please welcome Caramo to the I Choose Me Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: very excited to talk to you, so thank you.
Speaker 2: I'm very shcityed to talk to you.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the last time we saw each other?
Speaker 2: Of course, well a fortune, real.
Speaker 1: Fortune, celebrity Wheel of Fortune.
Speaker 2: Yes, of course you thought I would forget that. I
Speaker 2: mean standing next first of all, standing next to one
Speaker 2: of the most iconic and most beautiful women in the world.
Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of you, but also like we
Speaker 2: were on there and I was like, what the fuck
Speaker 2: is going on? Right now?
Speaker 1: I can This was one of the most fun days
Speaker 1: because you were struggling so hard and we were trying
Speaker 1: to send you like the answers struggling.
Speaker 2: I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: It was the pressure.
Speaker 2: It was a pressure, that's what it was.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I felt for you. But anybody who
Speaker 1: hasn't seen that episode of us on Wheel of Fortune,
Speaker 1: you have to check it out because it will make
Speaker 1: you laugh. Oh very well, very very well. Such an
Speaker 1: exciting time in my life and yours.
Speaker 2: Yes, tell me what's making your exciting? I want to hear.
Speaker 2: I know it's about when you're interviewing me, but I'm
Speaker 2: always like, yeah.
Speaker 1: I just have a lot of really fun new things
Speaker 1: happening at this age in the stage in my life
Speaker 1: I never really saw coming, and it's just all happening
Speaker 1: and I love it.
Speaker 2: That's exciting. Yeah, that's really true.
Speaker 1: I listened to your book over the weekend. I couldn't
Speaker 1: read it. I had to listen to it, but I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. I got to know so much about
Speaker 1: not just you, but the culture that you grew up in.
Speaker 1: And it was so personal and honest and candid, and
Speaker 1: I know that was a few years ago now that
Speaker 1: you did that book, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it still all applies, yeah, change it was.
Speaker 1: The journey to where you are today is so layered. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for those of us that don't know, can we just
Speaker 1: kind of like rewind to the beginning or talk about,
Speaker 1: like you grew up in Houston. I did, and I
Speaker 1: would just love to hear about your household and your
Speaker 1: relationship with your parents a little bit.
Speaker 2: Sure. So I grew up in Houston, Texas. I'm the
Speaker 2: son of immigrants, so on first generation America, and my
Speaker 2: parents are jamaking in Cuban. And it was a it
Speaker 2: was a tough childhood because my father was not a
Speaker 2: great father. So I grew up in a house where
Speaker 2: my mother was abuse. He wasn't responsible with money, So
Speaker 2: we moved constantly, constantly, constantly moved. I don't think I
Speaker 2: ever stayed in a place longer than a year, honestly,
Speaker 2: just moving, moving, moving. And then it got worse. We
Speaker 2: were in a hotel for a little bit, you know,
Speaker 2: just now I realized we were homeless. At the time,
Speaker 2: I thought it was like a fun little like for
Speaker 2: an hotel. You know, we're all staying twin beds, you know,
Speaker 2: it's so crazy with you how you process things as
Speaker 2: a kid and then as an adult you're like, hmm,
Speaker 2: that was a mess. But yeah, but there was, you know,
Speaker 2: there was, it was, it was, it was. It was
Speaker 2: difficult childhood because I had these intersections of my personality
Speaker 2: that just never seemed to fit with anywhere I lived
Speaker 2: or anywhere I was. So it was my father did
Speaker 2: this thing that he thought he was doing the best,
Speaker 2: where he always moved into an apartment complex that was
Speaker 2: on the edge of whatever rich neighborhood that you know,
Speaker 2: we could be near. And the reason it was because
Speaker 2: he wanted us to be in the best school districts,
Speaker 2: and so those school districts were predominantly white because of
Speaker 2: the income. And so now here I am, We're in
Speaker 2: the apartment complex next to the rich neighborhood. So I'm
Speaker 2: going to the good school, but I don't have the
Speaker 2: money they have. I also am a my name is Kamos.
Speaker 2: That's completely different from everyone else, who is John Kevin,
Speaker 2: Bill Jason. Then, like I tell people, like they would
Speaker 2: bring lunches and they had peanut butter and jelly sandwiches,
Speaker 2: and I'd be bringing Oxtella curry goat because it was
Speaker 2: whatever we ate the night before. Like imagine a little
Speaker 2: sixth grader bringing in food to Mike uwaid. It just
Speaker 2: was all a train rack, you know. And now I
Speaker 2: look back and I laugh and I think it's humorous,
Speaker 2: But in the moment, it was like what in the hell.
Speaker 2: So it just seemed like I never just fit. But
Speaker 2: even with that happening, and always in having the hard
Speaker 2: things at home, I just still felt like there's some
Speaker 2: there's gonna be something better. I just always was optimistic.
Speaker 2: I'm just an optimistic person. I just always have been that, like,
Speaker 2: this can't be it. There has to be something more.
Speaker 2: There has to be something more, There has to be
Speaker 2: a better life. And that's sort of how I lived
Speaker 2: my childhood into my adulthood.
Speaker 1: And what's your relationship with your parents?
Speaker 2: Like, now, oh, mom, my mother and I. So I'm
Speaker 2: the youngest, I have all sisters, and mother and I
Speaker 2: are very close, so we hang all the time. I
Speaker 2: actually just moved my mom to California a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago, so I bought our house out And for
Speaker 2: anybody who's from California and Woodland Hills, which is nice
Speaker 2: and it's just come out all the time. My father
Speaker 2: and I have had a tumultuous relationship because at the
Speaker 2: age of fifteen, I let him in. Regarding my sexuality.
Speaker 2: Use the term coming out. It's actually a term that
Speaker 2: I've been spending the last couple of years trying to destroy.
Speaker 1: I love this, by the way, because I've never felt
Speaker 1: comfortable saying coming out. That phrase just didn't feel right.
Speaker 2: It's antiquated, and I think there was a time in
Speaker 2: the LGBTQIA community where it was empowering. It's like, you're
Speaker 2: not going to force me to hide, I am going
Speaker 2: to be But now it's like we're forcing people to
Speaker 2: make these grand announcements to people who don't matter to
Speaker 2: them and don't have any any bearing on their lives.
Speaker 2: And we're also forcing people to say to someone you
Speaker 2: now have the power to accept or deny me based
Speaker 2: on me coming out to you, and that's actually not
Speaker 2: the process. The process is I'm going to let you
Speaker 2: in because I trust you and I love you. And
Speaker 2: if I don't want to let you in, it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean I'm ashamed of who I am. It doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that I am not okay with me. It means that
Speaker 2: the same way, I don't let everyone my front door.
Speaker 2: I don't need to let you into my personal life
Speaker 2: because you're not worthy of that space, or maybe you're
Speaker 2: not emotionally or mentally intelligent enough to handle it. And again,
Speaker 2: your choice, it's my choice. It's my choice. You don't
Speaker 2: get the power to accept or deny me because I
Speaker 2: have already accepted myself, right, And so I left my
Speaker 2: family in my family when I was fifteen regarding my sexuality,
Speaker 2: and my father had an adverse reaction. He just couldn't
Speaker 2: reconcile his relationship with his son with his relationship with
Speaker 2: his religion, and it became abusive. He didn't you know,
Speaker 2: he didn't have memory in high school. He would just
Speaker 2: walk past me for days and not talking too, and
Speaker 2: you know, it was abusive. And then and then once I,
Speaker 2: you know, graduated high school, I was like, deuces, I
Speaker 2: don't need to do in my life. You know, I'm gone.
Speaker 2: And we didn't speak for about I don't know, thirteen years, fourteen,
Speaker 2: fifteen years. We didn't speak, no contact at all. And
Speaker 2: during that time I forgave him, like I'm one of
Speaker 2: these people who I don't hold on to grudges. I
Speaker 2: kind of like there's a nature in me that I
Speaker 2: don't know where it came from, but I'm just like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to hold on to like your bs.
Speaker 2: I don't want to hold onto it like I'm able
Speaker 2: to release it pretty easily.
Speaker 1: That's lucky, good, Yes, it is.
Speaker 2: I help so many people who don't know how to
Speaker 2: do that, and I'm always trying to give them the
Speaker 2: tools too, And like, for some reason, my entire life,
Speaker 2: I've been able to. And so it wasn't until about
Speaker 2: maybe six years ago he came back around and he
Speaker 2: wrote me a letter and said, I'm so sorry for
Speaker 2: the way I treated you. I'm so sorry for now
Speaker 2: loving you as a parent, and he asked for my forgiveness,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I forgave you. I was like,
Speaker 2: I forgave you years ago. You've been holding onto this.
Speaker 2: I moved on, and so now we have somewhat of
Speaker 2: a relationship. You know, it's it's growing. But yeah, that's
Speaker 2: that's me and my parents and my family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes me feel so good. I'm happy that
Speaker 1: you that he came to that place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, on his own journey, his own journey, and yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I think what I've learned from that that
Speaker 2: I try to teach people is, you know, setting the
Speaker 2: boundaries and being clear about you're not going to be
Speaker 2: allowed to hurt me allowed him the space to make
Speaker 2: a choice for the turpe of person he decided he
Speaker 2: should be, and allowed him to say because I realized
Speaker 2: I don't want to force anybody to learn, right, It's
Speaker 2: not my job. I'm open to helping somebody grow, but
Speaker 2: I can't help you learn about the person that you
Speaker 2: want to be. And I say that both professionally and
Speaker 2: just as a human being, I can't. You have to
Speaker 2: make the choice that you want to learn, and you know,
Speaker 2: like I can be blue in the face telling you
Speaker 2: to read this book, learn about this, understand and until
Speaker 2: you make that choice, no, But once you make that choice,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be there with open arms to help
Speaker 2: you to grow, to help you to understand how you
Speaker 2: can use that knowledge to be better and to be
Speaker 2: a better human being for yourself and other people. And
Speaker 2: because I let him go, he made the choice to learn,
Speaker 2: and then I was there to help him grow. And
Speaker 2: he's growing into a better man that he's ever been
Speaker 2: in his seventy five years. He's finally turning into the
Speaker 2: man that maybe he should have been when we were
Speaker 2: all younger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I mean, thank god he's there now, but yeah,
Speaker 1: sorry for those stairs. Yeah god, you are a beautiful,
Speaker 1: open gay man. And I think that maybe one of
Speaker 1: the bravest, scariest liberating moments in any LGBTQ plus person's
Speaker 1: life is that I choose me moment when you choose
Speaker 1: to open up to the world or to your inner
Speaker 1: circle about your identity, and that you choose to let
Speaker 1: those people in, like we were talking about, and you
Speaker 1: did that when you were a teenager your set. You said,
Speaker 1: what was that like for you? And who was the
Speaker 1: first person you let in?
Speaker 2: I think it was just kind of a group in
Speaker 2: high school. See, I didn't have any choice. The reason
Speaker 2: I let people n I fifteen wasn't It was just
Speaker 2: because all my peers were dating and I wanted to date,
Speaker 2: and they were all talking about crushes. And I've always
Speaker 2: anyone who knows me personally knows how to have an
Speaker 2: honest filter, Like I mean, I like, I just am
Speaker 2: just like I can't. I just not able to hold
Speaker 2: it in. I'm able to And so I'm like, you
Speaker 2: all are talking about who you like I want to
Speaker 2: talk about who I like. And the guy that had
Speaker 2: a crush on was his name was John Brown, and
Speaker 2: he was just beautiful. And we sat next together because
Speaker 2: my name was Caramo Brown and he was like six '
Speaker 2: four and gorgeous, and I just thought he was the
Speaker 2: most gorgeous person. So I just spit it out. I
Speaker 2: was like, is anybody else obsessed with John Brown? Because
Speaker 2: I'm a Brown And so it just became that conversation.
Speaker 2: So it was like, you know, I just it was
Speaker 2: just out of that teen hormones running in that I
Speaker 2: was like, I cannot, I can't, I can't. I gotta
Speaker 2: say it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I really wish that I grew up
Speaker 1: with you. We would have been very good friends.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you it would have been a good time.
Speaker 1: Have been trouble. I've been thinking about something, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure if I have questions about this subject, other people do,
Speaker 1: so maybe this will be useful to some people. I
Speaker 1: have someone in my life whom I love very much
Speaker 1: that is gay, but we've never really talked about it,
Speaker 1: not like really gotten deep and spoken about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I don't know why it wasn't like it. Maybe
Speaker 1: there were times when I avoided the conversation and everybody knew,
Speaker 1: but nobody was talking about it. So I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be the one that talked about it. And I'm
Speaker 1: the baby of the family and it just didn't feel
Speaker 1: like my place. Yeah, but how I mean for anybody
Speaker 1: out there who might be struggling with the same thing, Like,
Speaker 1: what advice do you have for me to start that
Speaker 1: conversation and why should I start that conversation?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the importance we starting that conversation is
Speaker 2: letting somebody know that your safe space. I think still
Speaker 2: even in twenty twenty four. Oh my god, look at
Speaker 2: your own dog. Hi, maybe what's her name?
Speaker 1: This is Sandy.
Speaker 2: I wish you could see my two at my feet
Speaker 2: right now. They're Leo, They're both. Isn't it crazy how
Speaker 2: they just stay right beside you.
Speaker 1: I have three dogs in here right now.
Speaker 2: No. But I think even in twenty twenty four, we
Speaker 2: forget that, like, this world is still unfortunately an unsafe
Speaker 2: space and in some places where Astqia people and I
Speaker 2: think the more people know that there's people in their
Speaker 2: life that want to be a safe space for them,
Speaker 2: that want to be there for them, want to make
Speaker 2: sure they're advocating for them being an ally. It is important.
Speaker 2: I think it's important for any one of us. And
Speaker 2: so when you ask that question of like why should
Speaker 2: I want to be curious, because it lets the other
Speaker 2: person know that I want to learn and I want
Speaker 2: to know that I can be there to support you,
Speaker 2: to make sure that you always feel seen. It's an
Speaker 2: important thing we all want that, you know. I equate
Speaker 2: it to kind of what I'm trying to do in
Speaker 2: this space in my life. I realized that I was
Speaker 2: one of these gay guys before that had a lot
Speaker 2: of girl I have tons of girlfriends, but I would
Speaker 2: always make comments about like lady parts, like oh, I
Speaker 2: don't want to see it, I don't whatever. And I
Speaker 2: realized one day I was like, this is so fucking
Speaker 2: excuse me for cussing, but I was like, this is
Speaker 2: so like deal with misogyny and like like the fact
Speaker 2: that I'm like ill to the female body and I'm
Speaker 2: like supposed to be an ally to women, and like
Speaker 2: when I'm having some straight men, I don't I don't
Speaker 2: know enough about the female body and I know about
Speaker 2: their feelings, but I don't know about like how to
Speaker 2: support them in conversations that I was like, I want
Speaker 2: to stop doing that. And so I've been in this
Speaker 2: space about learning about the female body, like you can't
Speaker 2: even know. I'm digressing a little bit. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: the rabbit holes and the books that I'm going down
Speaker 2: to learn. But I'm doing this because I need my
Speaker 2: girlfriends to know that when it comes to their health
Speaker 2: and the things there feel and how they're changing, that
Speaker 2: I'm a safe space that we don't have to just
Speaker 2: talk about boys, cocktails, going out, you know, like I mean,
Speaker 2: we do have deeper conversations, but I want them to
Speaker 2: know that when they're talking about what's important to them
Speaker 2: and how they feel, that I'm there and that I've
Speaker 2: taken the time to learn and read. And I think
Speaker 2: to your point in your conversation by saying I want
Speaker 2: to learn and I want you to know that I'm
Speaker 2: here for you, that there's something that's special about that.
Speaker 2: But I think the way to approach that conversation the
Speaker 2: second part of your question is is this letting the
Speaker 2: people in your life know that I'm so willing you know,
Speaker 2: you don't even have to bring up sexuality, your gender
Speaker 2: or you know, in the gender if you don't want to.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know where that relationship is, but privately
Speaker 2: being around them and saying I'm I'm so open to talking.
Speaker 2: I'm so open to being here for you. I'm so
Speaker 2: open to just being a place that you can talk to.
Speaker 2: They're going to get the clue that you want to
Speaker 2: be there have conversations, and that allows you to organically
Speaker 2: find it. But I think just the desire and what
Speaker 2: you're asking is such an important thing, because what you're
Speaker 2: essentially saying is I want to be the best ally
Speaker 2: and support for people who already have right.
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, I'm very in tune with keeping the conversation
Speaker 1: present and open, you know, and being accepting of I've
Speaker 1: just I'm always been accepting. There's no question for me,
Speaker 1: like yeah, and so I have always just accepted it.
Speaker 1: But I do think that verbalizing that and just clarifying
Speaker 1: what you're talking about that I do care enough about
Speaker 1: you to want you to know that it's safe to
Speaker 1: talk to me about anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, about anything exact.
Speaker 1: I like that. Over here at our house, my family
Speaker 1: and I are fans of your shows. We're just basically
Speaker 1: Coroma fans over here. Yeah, no denying it. You've just
Speaker 1: finished the filming the upcoming season of Queer Eye, which
Speaker 1: is season nine, right.
Speaker 2: Season nine, Yes, in Vegas, and oh boy, for people
Speaker 2: to see.
Speaker 1: This, that's gotta be a good season.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you it's a good season because Vegas
Speaker 2: is one of those places that you realize outside of
Speaker 2: the strip, there is so much heart and unfortunately there's
Speaker 2: so much hurt because this transient city. People come and
Speaker 2: they so one of the people. We're not gonna talk
Speaker 2: about this, yeah, but I can share a little bit.
Speaker 2: There's a person that we're helping who worked at her
Speaker 2: job for twenty five years and then that job just
Speaker 2: told her they were closing randomly.
Speaker 1: And twenty five years. Wow.
Speaker 2: And this is this is that her whole life changed
Speaker 2: literally a week before we were going to help her. Wow.
Speaker 2: Perfect timing, perfect timing, perfect timing.
Speaker 1: I mean for her to grow with you, wow.
Speaker 2: Yes, everything, for her to be able to grieve the
Speaker 2: change in her life, understand how she's going to have
Speaker 2: to move forward believing in herself again. Also just financially
Speaker 2: like for us to be able to come in and say,
Speaker 2: here is some support as you're about to go through
Speaker 2: this new change. We just I just fell in love
Speaker 2: with the people who live outside of the Strip of Vegas,
Speaker 2: and I was like, Wow, this town is more than
Speaker 2: we give it credit for, and so I'm so excited
Speaker 2: to see it. We also have a new cast member, Jared.
Speaker 1: Yes, and what happened Bobby left the show? You and
Speaker 1: Bobby are close? We're close? Are you still close?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Me and Bobby are like best friends. He lived out,
Speaker 2: so we see each other all the time.
Speaker 1: Oh perfect. I love that I've had that happen where
Speaker 1: you're on a long running show and then someone that
Speaker 1: you love, your friend, your castmate, leaves, and I know
Speaker 1: that can be difficult ground and like, how did you
Speaker 1: navigate that friendship with someone when you're working relationship ends?
Speaker 1: Because I think a lot of people can relate to that,
Speaker 1: no matter what their career is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. For me, like, I believe that any friendship. So
Speaker 2: I have people who I work with that I'm friends
Speaker 2: with at work, and I have friends and this is
Speaker 2: not on Queerie. Queer as one of the shows I
Speaker 2: get along with everyone, So I'm friends. I'm friends with everyone,
Speaker 2: I say to say in other spaces, I've had friends
Speaker 2: who work friends and I have friends that I know
Speaker 2: that I want to build a relationship with, and I
Speaker 2: think sometimes people don't have that clear distinction, and so
Speaker 2: things happen, and transitions happen. It becomes muddy and weird
Speaker 2: because some people don't know where they stand. Yeah, we've
Speaker 2: never had a real transparent conversation because it's hard because
Speaker 2: the assumption is, because we've spent eight hours a day
Speaker 2: together for four years, five years, twenty years, that we
Speaker 2: know each other. And sometimes you realize you don't. You
Speaker 2: know a version of me that's at work. You know
Speaker 2: this part of me, but I've never let you into
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. And so for me, maintaining
Speaker 2: the relationship was more so about being an empathetic listener.
Speaker 2: You know, I tell people all the time. My granny
Speaker 2: used to tell me I have two ears and one mouth,
Speaker 2: which means he's supposed to be doing one of those
Speaker 2: things double time. And the thing that you're doing double
Speaker 2: time is listening. And so during this transition, I realized
Speaker 2: my job was not to run my mouth. It was
Speaker 2: to listen to how everyone is feeling, Like, tell me
Speaker 2: how you're feeling, and know that I'm space that is
Speaker 2: not trying to solve it, not trying to be a solution,
Speaker 2: but just wants you to know that you're being heard,
Speaker 2: because I think that sometimes in transition, people don't feel heard,
Speaker 2: and we don't feel heard, that's when the feelings of anxiety,
Speaker 2: of loneliness, of isolation pop up, because you feel like
Speaker 2: I'm on this island by myself. And so what helped
Speaker 2: my transition with Bobby is that he always knows he's heard.
Speaker 2: He's always felt hurt, and he knows that I'm listening
Speaker 2: and that I'm not here to judge his choices or
Speaker 2: anyone else's choices. I'm here just to listen and let
Speaker 2: him know that I'm here for him. And you know,
Speaker 2: one of the things that I love about what Bobby
Speaker 2: does is like like he gives me a call, like
Speaker 2: when we were shooting, and he's like, I hope it's
Speaker 2: going great. I hope the season's awesome. I hope this
Speaker 2: is happening, and I'm like that just shows the character
Speaker 2: of you know, He's like, I hope the guys are
Speaker 2: having a good time, and it just shows that for
Speaker 2: each of us, you know, like no matter what, we
Speaker 2: understand that there's a bigger piece, which was helping people
Speaker 2: and you just still want that to be good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I appreciate, right.
Speaker 1: How is it working with your new castmate, Jeremiah.
Speaker 2: Jeremiah is one of the most Have you ever met
Speaker 2: Jeremiah or Nate?
Speaker 1: I've met Nate, I don't know about I think I
Speaker 1: met Jeremiah on a plane once.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh my gosh, you're very love He's he's one
Speaker 2: of the sweetest, most honest people ever, dear kind at all.
Speaker 2: So what he brought to this season, and if I
Speaker 2: can be really transparent with you, is that you know
Speaker 2: this from working on a long running show. After a while,
Speaker 2: it becomes a routine. You know, everyone knows what they're doing,
Speaker 2: and everyone knows what their role, and it becomes very
Speaker 2: Having Jeremiah there made me see this show like how
Speaker 2: I saw season one.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 2: Because I had someone there who from the first day.
Speaker 2: I remember we walked into a house. On the very
Speaker 2: first episode of season nine, we walked to the house
Speaker 2: and Jeremiah, as we were walking out and we were
Speaker 2: all deciding what we were going to do, started crying
Speaker 2: and he was so tearful, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: turned him and I was like, baby, what's wrong? And
Speaker 2: he was like, this is so thoughtful. Y'all are being
Speaker 2: so thoughtful about what you're about to do for this person,
Speaker 2: because a lot of people don't realize, like we really
Speaker 2: are thoughtful. We really think about it, you know this,
Speaker 2: We really figure out what we're going to do to
Speaker 2: help them, and we tell the producers, and the producers
Speaker 2: then support what we've said how we're going to help them.
Speaker 2: And so he was like crying. He was like, Wow,
Speaker 2: this is not just something where you know, you get
Speaker 2: on camera and then you walk away. Y'all are really
Speaker 2: huddled up talking about what's going to be best for
Speaker 2: this person to have the best life. And I was like, yeah, baby,
Speaker 2: we do. And it just it just gives you this
Speaker 2: sort of like reinvigorating like and so and he works
Speaker 2: so hard this season. Sorry, I'm laboring on Jeremiah so much,
Speaker 2: but he worked so hard that it made us even
Speaker 2: work even harder because he was fresh and we wanted
Speaker 2: to match him and like his excitement and so our
Speaker 2: excitement all went up too. Not saying we weren't excited,
Speaker 2: but like it can lose.
Speaker 1: Its vigor after a while.
Speaker 2: When it comes, and so we're used to it. We
Speaker 2: know formulas being the maggot. We've seen the formula, we've
Speaker 2: seen the magic we know, and with him there, every
Speaker 2: episode in season nine felt like every episode in season one.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, those fresh eyes. Fresh eye aspired that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, every moment and which was beautiful and so ever
Speaker 2: people to see this because I'm like, I'm like, we
Speaker 2: haven't been like this, patting my own stuff on the
Speaker 2: back like this since one or two, like where you're
Speaker 2: just in it like everyone over hours, hours and hours
Speaker 2: over like when we did like season one and two
Speaker 2: and three where we're like I would be sitting there
Speaker 2: like really digging and having conversations for hours and putting
Speaker 2: hours and now coming back and we just did that,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, we're thanks, Jeremiah, thank you.
Speaker 1: Oh good. Fresh energy is always good always for anything, anything, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: talk about fresh energy. You had your father too, incredible, Yes,
Speaker 1: and then your journey to fatherhood happened in kind of
Speaker 1: a surprising, somewhat shocking a little shocking. How did you
Speaker 1: find out you were Jason's father and then Christian came
Speaker 1: into your life?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, yes, so I have only had where everyone's
Speaker 2: adult here had sex with one girl he was my
Speaker 2: best friend. You're best friend since we were in seventh grade.
Speaker 2: Eighth was beginning ending in seventh grade, and she had
Speaker 2: a boyfriend in ninth grade who was a senior and
Speaker 2: she was going to lose his virginity to him, and
Speaker 2: she didn't want to be bad, and so she asked
Speaker 2: me if we could practice. She knew itay, yeah, I
Speaker 2: was like, I was like, okay, yeah, sure, this makes sense.
Speaker 2: We're fifteenth for out of practice. And I mean, she
Speaker 2: knew I was gay, but it was like I was safe.
Speaker 1: You were safe. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2: I was a guy she could be weird with and
Speaker 2: vulnerable with, and she wasn't. She couldn't be that with
Speaker 2: her boyfriend, but she could me. So we slipped school
Speaker 2: and we tried. It lasted no joke six seconds at
Speaker 2: and I literally sat on the side of the bed
Speaker 2: and I apologize to her now for this, and we
Speaker 2: have a good joke, but at the moment, I was
Speaker 2: like on the mat of your bed, like, no, I
Speaker 2: don't want to do that ever again. No, I don't
Speaker 2: want to.
Speaker 1: It was probably a little hard for her to her
Speaker 1: and like.
Speaker 2: That's why I apologize and we laughed about it. Now
Speaker 2: but I was like, I took your first moment away,
Speaker 2: Like you would have had a better shot with him
Speaker 2: where a special and he would have held you and
Speaker 2: he was your boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Like who's to know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to know, but I'm like, you definitely
Speaker 2: didn't have a good good It wasn't good with the
Speaker 2: gay guy. We definitely know, me on the side of
Speaker 2: the bed rocking holding myself a blanket was not the
Speaker 2: first good look for it. And so she, you know,
Speaker 2: we laughed about it. We stayed friends. And then at
Speaker 2: the end of that school year, she moved away. And
Speaker 2: this is you know, I'm forty three about it, forty four,
Speaker 2: So this is nineteen ninety five. There was no cell
Speaker 2: phones like there are today. There was no Instagram or
Speaker 2: social media. So when someone moved, if you didn't have
Speaker 2: their home phone number or mailing address, you know, like
Speaker 2: they were gone. Yeah, And I went on my life.
Speaker 2: I went on with high school and I just she
Speaker 2: I thought about her, but she was, you know, she
Speaker 2: just was a kid that moved away. And then when
Speaker 2: I was twenty five years old, I got a stack
Speaker 2: of paper for back child support. I was living in
Speaker 2: California at this point. For this kid. I didn't know.
Speaker 2: And if I can be honest with you, I thought
Speaker 2: I was being punked because I was on MTV's Real
Speaker 2: World when I was after undergrad. I was twenty three
Speaker 2: years old, and I thought that MTV was doing like
Speaker 2: some pumped of the gay guy, like, let's punk the
Speaker 2: gay guy that he has a kid. And so when
Speaker 2: I saw these papers on my doorstep, I thought that
Speaker 2: Ashton Kutcher was in my house.
Speaker 1: You thought he was just gonna pop out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was like I thought like someone
Speaker 2: was pranking me. Why why would I ever think that
Speaker 2: was the last time I'd ever saw a girl or like,
Speaker 2: didn't put a girl like and this is years now,
Speaker 2: a decade. I'm like, there's no way that I have
Speaker 2: a kid. So Ashon Coutcher's in my house, I read
Speaker 2: a plank me. I literally went down to my car
Speaker 2: and changed clothes into a new outfit because I wanted, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to look good for oh. I was like,
Speaker 2: I got to and I walked in the house and
Speaker 2: if you would have saw the performance I had when
Speaker 2: I walk in that house, like I would and nobody
Speaker 2: was there to see it because the house's empty, And
Speaker 2: so I thought that the papers were for my neighbor,
Speaker 2: who is this straight bachelor, And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're putting the wrong doorstep. I'll give you to him tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I literally threw the papers out, and later that night
Speaker 2: is when I opened them and I saw her name
Speaker 2: them my name, and it was my first time seeing
Speaker 2: her name since I was fifteen, my son's name, and
Speaker 2: it blew my mind, and I immediately went back to
Speaker 2: Texas to confirm paternity. That took about two weeks. They
Speaker 2: confirmed the fraternity and they gave me her address and
Speaker 2: I went to her house and I showed up on
Speaker 2: her doorstep same way the paper showed up on mind.
Speaker 2: And when I opened the door, she was shocked because
Speaker 2: she didn't come after me for back child support. She
Speaker 2: had applied for benefits for her other children she had had.
Speaker 2: She had five children total, and she had applied for
Speaker 2: food stamps, and because she had put me on the
Speaker 2: birth certificate, the state came after me. Wow the benefit
Speaker 2: she was receiving. So when I showed up on her doorstep,
Speaker 2: she was shocked.
Speaker 1: Everybody was shocked.
Speaker 2: Everyone was shocked, and in that moment realizing she was shocked,
Speaker 2: any anger that I had went away because I realized
Speaker 2: she wasn't being malicious. She was just a fifteen year
Speaker 2: old who was trying to make the right, best decisions.
Speaker 2: And the first that was I knew one of us
Speaker 2: had a chance of having a good life, and I
Speaker 2: wanted to be you because you were always so kind
Speaker 2: to me. And that's sort of why she didn't tell me.
Speaker 2: And when you hear that, you knowing the life she had,
Speaker 2: which was abusive family, I just I forgave her and
Speaker 2: we became best friends immediately. And then like later that day,
Speaker 2: she was like, you want to meet your son. He's
Speaker 2: going to be home to school in three hours.
Speaker 1: And wow, that must have blown your mind.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, girl, I was like twenty five and
Speaker 2: a ten year old's a nine year old's walking home.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what am I about to do right now
Speaker 2: with this?
Speaker 1: Like no, yeah, I mean, but I know I can
Speaker 1: tell for you that being a dad has just given
Speaker 1: you such purpose and meanings in your life.
Speaker 2: Having finding out my son, and then within six months
Speaker 2: I petitioned for full custody with her support because she
Speaker 2: had five kids twenty five years old, you know, she
Speaker 2: was struggling. She did grat her in high school, so
Speaker 2: you know, she had to drop off because she was
Speaker 2: a team mom, and so it was my way of saying,
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, I'm done with college. My family's doing well.
Speaker 2: Now like let me support. And then within that time period,
Speaker 2: her other son was being molested and the state was
Speaker 2: going to remove the kids out of the house, and
Speaker 2: so I said, well, I was a safe placement because
Speaker 2: I was licen in the state of Texas, and so
Speaker 2: he was going to stay with me for six weeks.
Speaker 2: Why they did investigation. Six weeks started to six months,
Speaker 2: six months to return to a year. And then one
Speaker 2: day he walked in the room and he called me Dad,
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, I realized that I was
Speaker 2: a father of too, and he was doing great. So
Speaker 2: I asked her for if I could take custody of him.
Speaker 2: She said yes. And and when I tell you, she
Speaker 2: said yes, this was with This wasn't an easy yes
Speaker 2: for her. I say that now in like hindsight, but
Speaker 2: in the moment, she's rappling, like, am I being a
Speaker 2: bad mom? Right? She knew that I would keep them close.
Speaker 2: She knew that I would keep them safe, and so
Speaker 2: I became his father of two by twenty six, like
Speaker 2: a ten year old and a seven year old, and
Speaker 2: it was like the weirdest thing.
Speaker 1: With just no gradual build up to where they were.
Speaker 1: It was thrown in.
Speaker 2: Alright deep, which I think, I like that in my life,
Speaker 2: and so I, yeah, they saved my life because I
Speaker 2: was I was dealing with my own issues from my father,
Speaker 2: like I told you about of him being abusive to
Speaker 2: my mother and him being abusive to me that I
Speaker 2: had never processed. I had forgiven him, but I had
Speaker 2: never processed the pain. And having kids it made me
Speaker 2: realize that I, first of all, I wanted to break
Speaker 2: that generational curse. I wanted to break that cycle of abuse.
Speaker 2: It was so important to me. But breaking that cycle
Speaker 2: of abuse made me focus on the things that happened
Speaker 2: to me, like when I wouldn't react to the same
Speaker 2: way to my kids that my father reacted to me.
Speaker 2: It made me them processed. But why did he react
Speaker 2: to me that way? And I need a clarity? And
Speaker 2: it made me start digging and healing myself in a way.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't have done if I wasn't a parent
Speaker 2: making better decisions.
Speaker 1: Right, did you instinctually parent the way you were parented
Speaker 1: like in the beginning, no I.
Speaker 2: Knew because it was so chaotic my childhood that I
Speaker 2: knew I had to do the opposite. So everything was
Speaker 2: the opposite of what happened in my childhood. So for instance,
Speaker 2: like the minute I got them, when we moved into
Speaker 2: a place and we were in that the same place,
Speaker 2: I was like, you're not moving around. You're going to
Speaker 2: be in the same home, and this is going to
Speaker 2: be your bedroom, and you're going to put It's going
Speaker 2: to sound like the smallest things, but I was like,
Speaker 2: you get to put posters on the wall because for me,
Speaker 2: no wall ever had anything on it because I didn't
Speaker 2: know how long I was going to be there. So
Speaker 2: it was important that they knew that that was their room.
Speaker 2: It just I you know, I didn't I got hit
Speaker 2: because we you know, we were spanked and beat and
Speaker 2: so for them, I was like, there's I'm never going
Speaker 2: to there's always going to be a conversation, you know,
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't gentle parenting, so I wasn't like why
Speaker 2: do you feel this way? It was still stern. I
Speaker 2: was still stern dad, but it was like I'm going
Speaker 2: to talk to you, you know, you're you're eleven years old,
Speaker 2: so I can have a conversation with you. Do you
Speaker 2: understand the impact of the decision. Do you understand what's
Speaker 2: going on? And now do you understand there's a consequence.
Speaker 2: The consequence is I'm taking this. You're going to be
Speaker 2: in your room, You're not going anywhere, and these are
Speaker 2: things are going to happen. And so and now, like
Speaker 2: I with my kids, like they're not fearful of me
Speaker 2: because they never got hit by me. They never they
Speaker 2: were never screamed at in that way, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Like it, So I just did the opposite
Speaker 2: of what I had how I was treated, and it
Speaker 2: healed them while also helping me to understand how to heal.
Speaker 1: So interesting how your journey taught you so much about
Speaker 1: how you didn't want to be I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people have that you provided them with that structure
Speaker 1: and that discipline that's so vital to being a parent,
Speaker 1: but also the acceptance and the love and the communication
Speaker 1: and encouragement. Yeah, that's a really important balance. It's because
Speaker 1: you don't want to lean too hard on either direction. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you want to incorporate both of those, all of those things.
Speaker 2: Agreed Yeah, having them feel safe enough to talk to
Speaker 2: me was like the was paramount because I never felt
Speaker 2: safe enough, Yeah, talk to my parents and my childhood,
Speaker 2: like I could never open up to them about anything
Speaker 2: I was feeling or going through it.
Speaker 1: I saw the episode where you and Jason talked on
Speaker 1: your show about overcoming his struggle with addiction, and that
Speaker 1: traumatic experience that you went through finding him and learning
Speaker 1: about his addiction probably the one time when you didn't
Speaker 1: he wasn't communicative with you about what was going on
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that was hard. So during the pandemic, I
Speaker 2: found my son overdosed, and I guess, so this is
Speaker 2: what the problem is that I've talked about this for
Speaker 2: I put my child in a box because he was
Speaker 2: the good child that I never had to worry about.
Speaker 2: Jason has always been the responsible child. He's always been.
Speaker 2: I could count on him to be where he said
Speaker 2: he was going to be at the time he said
Speaker 2: he was going to be. When he was in high school.
Speaker 2: He could stay out a little later because I knew
Speaker 2: that he wasn't doing anything like he's always been that.
Speaker 2: And his brother Chris was always the one that I
Speaker 2: had to pay a little bit more attention to it,
Speaker 2: like who I had to focus on a little bit more.
Speaker 2: And because I put Jason in that box, it didn't
Speaker 2: allow me to see any signs of him having an addiction,
Speaker 2: because you know, when he slept in a little bit later,
Speaker 2: I was like, well, it's just because he's working hard.
Speaker 2: I would fill in the blank for him because I
Speaker 2: put him in a box. And I realized how harmful
Speaker 2: that was, not allowing my child, or period for human beings,
Speaker 2: not allowing human beings to be holistic that you put
Speaker 2: them in a box of like, this is who you are,
Speaker 2: and now anything you do, I'm going to fill in
Speaker 2: the blank because I've already made my decision that this
Speaker 2: is who you are. And that's why I think a
Speaker 2: lot of us miss signs of when someone is hurting, depress,
Speaker 2: maybe having suicidal ideations, is because we've already put them
Speaker 2: in a box said, oh, oh that's my strong friend,
Speaker 2: they can handle everything. Oh that's the friend who always
Speaker 2: shows up for you always. You put them in their
Speaker 2: box and now you're not going to see anything but that.
Speaker 2: And that's what I did with Jason, So he had
Speaker 2: was not dealing with the pandemic at all. He wasn't
Speaker 2: dealing with it. He felt isolated, felt alone, even though
Speaker 2: like we talked every day and everything else, and he
Speaker 2: was living with his girlfriend. I still put him in
Speaker 2: a box where I was like he could handle this,
Speaker 2: Like he's handling this, he's going great. And it just
Speaker 2: got worse and worse. And the only reason I found
Speaker 2: out is because he was supposed to catch a flight
Speaker 2: to his mother's back to Houston to be with his mom,
Speaker 2: and he missed the flight. The driver was in front
Speaker 2: of his apartment and they couldn't find he didn't come out,
Speaker 2: and I went over there upset.
Speaker 1: Because he thought he was just sleeping.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, I was like, Okay, now this
Speaker 2: is being irresponsible. I know it's a pandemic, but like,
Speaker 2: there's a flight that's been paid for, car service has
Speaker 2: been paid for. You said you wanted to go to
Speaker 2: your mom, like, So I went over there like angry
Speaker 2: and then walked in and saw the door a jarred
Speaker 2: and like him fased down in his cat's cat litter,
Speaker 2: and just was I mean, it was devastating. It was
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things that I ever saw in
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 1: I bet that just turned your world upside down, side down,
Speaker 1: especially because you thought she was the one that could
Speaker 1: handle it and was handling it.
Speaker 2: I know, not anymore, not anymore Like I. After that moment,
Speaker 2: I did a reevaluation of every person in my life
Speaker 2: who I put in a box, and that goes from
Speaker 2: sisters to coworkers who I was like, I mean everyone.
Speaker 2: I just I realized there were so many people that
Speaker 2: unconsciously I had already fined who they were, and I
Speaker 2: erased all those definitions and said, no more defining you.
Speaker 2: I'm going to allow you to be yourself without any definition,
Speaker 2: which is going to allow me to truly see you
Speaker 2: and again hear you, really hear you, and be there
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: I think that that is such a great message that
Speaker 1: you sort of took stock and reassessed your friendships and
Speaker 1: your relationships, but even just people on the street. You know,
Speaker 1: we put people in boxes all day long, every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and nobody knows what anybody's really dealing.
Speaker 2: With exactly exactly, And so if you want to get
Speaker 2: to know what they're dealing with, you know, first don't
Speaker 2: put them in that box. Secondly, let them know, like
Speaker 2: we talked about earlier, that your space to be there
Speaker 2: to really hear them and be there for them and
Speaker 2: listen and then do like I said before, you have
Speaker 2: two ears, listen more than you're talking. That has helped
Speaker 2: my relationships tremendously in my life because now I'm getting
Speaker 2: to see people and be there for people in ways
Speaker 2: that I wasn't before because they were they were this
Speaker 2: or that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can you being an expert when it
Speaker 1: comes to providing guidance in these areas for other people.
Speaker 1: And then to have this happen in your own life,
Speaker 1: I can imagine all of the emotions that you must
Speaker 1: have been going through.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the thing was the biggest emotion was
Speaker 2: that came through the first thought is that when I
Speaker 2: got Jason, I promised his mom that I would keep
Speaker 2: him safe. That was my biggest promise. I said, I'll
Speaker 2: keep him safe. Don't worry, I'll keep because you know,
Speaker 2: like I said again, like, it was a big decision
Speaker 2: for her for her to hand over her son. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and inadvertently I was a stranger. Even though we were
Speaker 2: kids as friends, I mean friends as kids, I was
Speaker 2: a stranger. It was ten years later and it was
Speaker 2: a big decision and so I was like don't worry.
Speaker 2: That's why I stay close. And so that parent guilt
Speaker 2: of like I didn't keep him safe. I didn't. I
Speaker 2: didn't keep him safe. I didn't give him the tools.
Speaker 2: I didn't give him something. And I think that rap
Speaker 2: that that that rattled me for a long time, like
Speaker 2: I didn't do it. I didn't have make ship runs
Speaker 2: of my family. Like my father was an addict in
Speaker 2: my twenties, I was an addict. I I loved drinking
Speaker 2: and I love cocaine. And when I was in my
Speaker 2: twenties and so and I thought that I had broken
Speaker 2: that cycle because we had such transparent conversations about drugs.
Speaker 2: And what I didn't realize is that I talked to
Speaker 2: him about how bad the drugs were, but I didn't
Speaker 2: talk to him about how easy they can come into
Speaker 2: your life. And that was a conversation I realized, Like
Speaker 2: the conversation was always like it was so bad, I
Speaker 2: was in a dark space. But I didn't realize I
Speaker 2: didn't tell him that when I started drugs, I wasn't
Speaker 2: in a dark space. I was in a happy space.
Speaker 2: I was with friends. Like the first time I drank
Speaker 2: and did cocaine, I wasn't in a dark space. I
Speaker 2: wasn't like depressed. On some corner, I was at a
Speaker 2: nightclub looking really cute and some friend was like, do
Speaker 2: you want to bump girl? And I was like, I've
Speaker 2: never done it, but sure, Like I was in a
Speaker 2: happy place, and I didn't explain that to him. Is
Speaker 2: that these vices can come into your life at some
Speaker 2: of your happiest moments because your guard is down and
Speaker 2: because you feel invincible. And then what happens is that
Speaker 2: once you've let it in, now the darkness inside of
Speaker 2: you that you might be keeping out of bay is
Speaker 2: now going to start growing because you're feeding it with
Speaker 2: these vices. And that's what happened to him. It's the
Speaker 2: beginning of the pandemic. He's having fun with his girlfriend
Speaker 2: and his friends and he's like, we've got this, but
Speaker 2: wasn't processing the emotions that he was feeling. And now
Speaker 2: I've tried a drug because we're we're twenty and we're
Speaker 2: having fun, and now it's turned into another and now
Speaker 2: I'm depressed, and now it's getting darker and darker, and
Speaker 2: I'm doing more to try to find that first feeling
Speaker 2: that I had on that first day. And one of
Speaker 2: the things that I've now learned is I'm having conversations
Speaker 2: to help people to understand the dangers of drugs. I
Speaker 2: talk more about like that first day, it's probably you're happy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's the time that you have to be most aware
Speaker 2: is when you're happy and when right.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't people don't think that. People what you think
Speaker 1: of someone starts an addiction or drug addiction or drinking addiction,
Speaker 1: that they're in a low place and there don't know
Speaker 1: where to turn.
Speaker 2: Every story is different, obviously, but mijority of people I
Speaker 2: have talked to or I have helped or I have counseled.
Speaker 2: They are with friends, they are in a club, at
Speaker 2: a party, they are feeling good, they are it was exciting.
Speaker 2: It wasn't some dark alley moment you know, it gets
Speaker 2: can get there for people. It's always something fun and
Speaker 2: like new and like, oh my gosh, are we trying this?
Speaker 2: Are we going to do this? Are we having a shot?
Speaker 2: Are we're having this drug? And that's when you have
Speaker 2: to be more aware. And so what I try to
Speaker 2: tell younger people now especially is like when you're the
Speaker 2: most happiest and those endorphins are running in you, is
Speaker 2: when you have to then be really conscious of like,
Speaker 2: this is the moment I have to say no, because
Speaker 2: there's something that might be darker laying underneath that hapiness
Speaker 2: that you haven't focused on, that those drugs are going
Speaker 2: to trigger. And so this is where you really have
Speaker 2: to be paying attention. And this is where friend groups
Speaker 2: have to say to each other. When we're our happiest
Speaker 2: is when we really have to protect each other. That
Speaker 2: protecting your happiness statement takes a bigger like takes on
Speaker 2: a new way when you're like in our happiest, we
Speaker 2: really have to protect each other because that's when we're
Speaker 2: most vulnerable to getting the shitty man that comes in
Speaker 2: our life. Most happy is when we're most susceptible to
Speaker 2: that drug coming in that Like, like every shitty relationship
Speaker 2: I've ever had, I was in the happy.
Speaker 1: Space when it started.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: he is so amazing. I love Like he's so right now,
Speaker 2: it's so exciting we're meeting up. Everyone is that. And
Speaker 2: so like what I'm learning now is that protecting your
Speaker 2: happiness is more of a job than we actually tell people. Like,
Speaker 2: in those moments of happiness is you have to really
Speaker 2: say hold on. I know this is exciting right now,
Speaker 2: but what if and this is not Debbie Downer, but
Speaker 2: what if how are we going to protect your happiness
Speaker 2: and how are you going to still spot the red
Speaker 2: flags the things that are dangerous in the happiness because
Speaker 2: those thedorphins are going to make you not see it right.
Speaker 2: And that's it. That's my soapbox about happiness. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Well, it's an interesting perspective and something I think people
Speaker 1: should think about. So it's good that you're bringing awareness
Speaker 1: to that. I just commend how you and your son
Speaker 1: have been so open about this. These struggles in your
Speaker 1: own personal struggles that I heard about in your memoir
Speaker 1: has sobriety you think brought you and your son closer
Speaker 1: or formed a new and different kind of bond that
Speaker 1: you never would have had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, sure, like we were. I mean,
Speaker 2: our communication has always been open, but now like there's
Speaker 2: nothing left to hide, you know, there's nothing left to hide,
Speaker 2: There's nothing that because now we've made it through the dark,
Speaker 2: there's nothing he could do or say that he knows
Speaker 2: that I would ever leave him or abandon him, and
Speaker 2: so part of his fear of not telling me was
Speaker 2: that he thought how I would react, And now he
Speaker 2: knows that I will always react in love. And I
Speaker 2: think that has allowed us to get closer because now
Speaker 2: he's not afraid to tell me if something happens, because
Speaker 2: I think most children don't share because they're afraid that
Speaker 2: they're not going to get a reaction of love. And
Speaker 2: now Wow knows no matter what, when I find out
Speaker 2: you're doing something that I don't approve of, I reacted
Speaker 2: with love. I love you through this. I'm going to
Speaker 2: love you. We're going to support you. It's all love.
Speaker 2: Ever a scolding, never a bad moment.
Speaker 1: I mean that's so hard as a parent though, in
Speaker 1: the moment when something happens and you see your kid
Speaker 1: making a bad decision, is it's really really hard to
Speaker 1: take a beat and just remember that you want to
Speaker 1: lead with love and understanding. Yeah, so you don't sever
Speaker 1: that relationship.
Speaker 2: You know what comes in my mind? I always sing
Speaker 2: this in myself all the time. You know that song
Speaker 2: I'm my young soul. I came to this strange We're
Speaker 2: hoping you remember that song from back in the day.
Speaker 1: No, not at all.
Speaker 2: I'm saying I'm not a good singer. It's okay, but
Speaker 2: it's about like being a new soul coming into this world.
Speaker 1: Can you hear it in your head?
Speaker 2: I have to find this now because I want you
Speaker 2: to hear this. This is the song. The sound familiar
Speaker 2: to all, so I can't do this strange.
Speaker 1: Yes, I completely recognize it.
Speaker 2: So in this song, she just talks about being a
Speaker 2: young soul. And now since I came here, I'd just
Speaker 2: been making every mistake possible, and I just wish that
Speaker 2: everyone could remember that I'm just a young soul. And
Speaker 2: I keep I sing that to myself while I'm always like, well,
Speaker 2: you're young soul this strange world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to remember that because they don't know.
Speaker 2: They don't know, and so that's my little thing. Thanks
Speaker 2: for letting me find that.
Speaker 1: Stupid of course, I wanted you to finish that moment
Speaker 1: for yourself. But I know the song now, so thank you.
Speaker 1: I do love that song. Yeah, you and your son
Speaker 1: co wrote children's books together.
Speaker 2: Yes, we have two. One it's called I'm Perfectly Designed,
Speaker 2: which just reminds people that you're perfectly designed, no matter
Speaker 2: how you look, where you're from, you're perfectly designed and
Speaker 2: to embrace and love yourself. And then the second one
Speaker 2: is I'm okay to feel, which is important to like
Speaker 2: tell young boys that it's okay to feel your feelings.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, and so I'm proud of like
Speaker 2: to have written two books with my boy. It's like amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just embarked on a business with my middle daughter,
Speaker 1: and there's something so rewarding, like you share that time together,
Speaker 1: but you also see them developing these skills and just
Speaker 1: like blossoming.
Speaker 2: It's wild. That's the same feeling. I'm like, this is
Speaker 2: just amazing. Like we also, he and I have just
Speaker 2: been the process. We just sold our first television show
Speaker 2: to a network together. Yeah, I'm so excited. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: you know this there's a process, so you know, not
Speaker 2: easy when it will make it to air, that whole thing,
Speaker 2: you know. So I haven't talked about it, but watching
Speaker 2: him write and become he's turning into this brilliant writer,
Speaker 2: which is like he was already a great writer growing
Speaker 2: up in high school and everything else, but to see
Speaker 2: it like turning into like books and now a show,
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, oh my gosh, you're like, you're
Speaker 2: like brilliant. I read his words and I'm like, I
Speaker 2: was on a call the other day and he was
Speaker 2: sitting on the couch over there and and he heard
Speaker 2: me struggling to find the words to say, and he
Speaker 2: just said it out loud, and I was like, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, this is our relationship now, Like my son
Speaker 2: is this brilliant wordsmith and now he just knows how
Speaker 2: to give dad the word. And I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: just I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm getting like emotional because you didn't know
Speaker 1: you were a dad and now your dad, and you're
Speaker 1: an amazing dad and you strive to be even better
Speaker 1: and you really recognize the glory in it and the
Speaker 1: struggles in it, and you share all of that so openly.
Speaker 1: If that's what it's all about. We learn from you
Speaker 1: because of you. Yep, Yeah, amazing. You talk a lot
Speaker 1: about boundaries, and I know that that's not easy for
Speaker 1: a lot of people setting boundaries and keeping boundaries. What
Speaker 1: would you say, just really quickly, what are some good
Speaker 1: steps to creating boundaries in your life? Like what do
Speaker 1: you need to tell yourself in order to make those boundaries?
Speaker 2: Well, First of all, most people are unclear on what
Speaker 2: they want in their life. So before you start setting
Speaker 2: boundaries that you're not going to actually keep or enforce,
Speaker 2: you need to write down what it is you want
Speaker 2: out of life and what do you deserve, What do
Speaker 2: you want and what do you deserve? And this is
Speaker 2: a practice I've been doing forever, and I try to
Speaker 2: tell people consistently, like, don't have it up here rattling around.
Speaker 2: Write it down where you can see it and reread it,
Speaker 2: because it's important for you to understand. The reason this
Speaker 2: boundary is important is because I want this for my
Speaker 2: life and I deserve this for my life. And when
Speaker 2: you have those in front of you and you are
Speaker 2: aware of them, it's harder for somebody to break that boundary,
Speaker 2: overstep that boundary because you're not going to allow them.
Speaker 2: When I know that I deserve a paycheck at the
Speaker 2: end of two weeks because I've done this amount of work,
Speaker 2: your boss comes to you and says, oh, I can't
Speaker 2: pay for another week, you don't just say okay. You
Speaker 2: say no, no, no, no, no, I worked, I did this.
Speaker 2: I want my money. And it's because you're clear that
Speaker 2: working hard, doing your skills, you deserve this money. And
Speaker 2: the same thing goes for like your emotional state, your
Speaker 2: mental state. When you know what you want and you deserve,
Speaker 2: no one cannot give you your money, or give you
Speaker 2: the respect, or give you the love, or give you
Speaker 2: what you deserve because you're aware of it. And so
Speaker 2: that's the first part. As I say, I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't take that time to really be clear.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's an amazing message for our listeners.
Speaker 2: And then the second thing I would say, once you're clear,
Speaker 2: I would say, before you can start setting boundaries, I
Speaker 2: tell people, get your boundary bodies. And this is important
Speaker 2: things because if you never set boundaries before, it's very
Speaker 2: easy for narcissists manipulators in your life to learn how
Speaker 2: to go around your boundaries. And so when I say
Speaker 2: get your boundary bodies, it's those people who understand equally
Speaker 2: what you want and what you deserve, who when if
Speaker 2: you have a moment where you feel weak, or you
Speaker 2: feel or you get sucked back into whatever pattern, these
Speaker 2: people are there to remind you of what you want
Speaker 2: and deserve because they've read that sheet too. And I
Speaker 2: think when you have those two things compounded, it's easy
Speaker 2: for you to set boundaries with the people in your
Speaker 2: life and it allows you to stick with it. And
Speaker 2: boundaries who can save your life and chance?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they can. So write down what you want and
Speaker 1: what you deserve.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: I did a similar thing with in my therapy, which
Speaker 1: was I wrote down my non negotiables.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: It's very similar.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then get to.
Speaker 1: Define it yep. Get your boundary buddies, bbeses. I don't
Speaker 1: want to not talk about your talk show. I know
Speaker 1: we're running over a little bit, but let's just briefly
Speaker 1: talk about this new season of Coromo, premiering September sixteenth, right, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: is this season two or three?
Speaker 2: Season three?
Speaker 1: Three?
Speaker 2: Yes? Wow, it's been exciting. I shoot, so the syndication
Speaker 2: game is I shoot six to eight episodes a day,
Speaker 2: so it's it's it's a grind. My ship is different
Speaker 2: because I don't have celebrities on, so I help everyday people.
Speaker 2: And the thing about the genre that I'm in is
Speaker 2: that it's unfortunately, over the past couple of years, has
Speaker 2: got a bit of a bad rap because people have
Speaker 2: been screaming, running off, acting crazy. And one of the
Speaker 2: things that I'm most proud of is that, like I
Speaker 2: give out therapy on my show, like anybody who comes
Speaker 2: and opens themselves up. I pay for therapy. I you know,
Speaker 2: make the network pay for therapy, which they've never done.
Speaker 2: You know. I always make sure that we bring it
Speaker 2: back down to real conversations, real emotions. We're getting through it,
Speaker 2: like there's real healing, and it's it's, it's it's. It's
Speaker 2: been a journey of like rebranding this job and helping
Speaker 2: people to see like I'm not here for the solution.
Speaker 2: I'm here to tell you that you can be in
Speaker 2: a better relationship with your mother, your father, your sister,
Speaker 2: your brother, or your boyfriend and your husband and your wife.
Speaker 2: And it's been great because the audience is receiving it,
Speaker 2: which I'm just wanted. They're like please, yes, So it's
Speaker 2: been a great thing. So yeah, we're going to season three,
Speaker 2: and I just know that, like this is a long game.
Speaker 2: Like you know, I think about like I think about
Speaker 2: some of the people I look up to, like Oprah.
Speaker 2: Her first seven seasons was not what we know about
Speaker 2: Oprah right now. Right people look back at early season Oprah,
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, that's that's not the show that we
Speaker 2: ended up loving in the end. You know, you know,
Speaker 2: like there was moments where Oprah used to wheel out
Speaker 2: wagons of fat and have you know baby Mama's fighting
Speaker 2: on her show. And then you know, gradually she allowed
Speaker 2: people to see her heart. And so I'm just excited
Speaker 2: for the continued growth and for people to continue seeing
Speaker 2: me infuse me and what my whole life is about,
Speaker 2: which is helping people into this show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a perfect place for you. I'm very excited
Speaker 1: for you. You've shared your life, You've shared your ups
Speaker 1: or downs, the lessons that you've learned and challenges that
Speaker 1: you've faced, and you use that.
Speaker 2: To reach people trying that's the goal.
Speaker 1: And help them through those big life moments.
Speaker 2: That's the goal. That is the goal.
Speaker 1: Sister, Share, Share, Share What a gift you are?
Speaker 2: Your gift?
Speaker 1: Okay, two last questions. When it all ends, what do
Speaker 1: you hope the world remembers about Coromo.
Speaker 2: That I hope that they just know that my only
Speaker 2: job on hair is to help people feel seen. That's
Speaker 2: all I want. That's the only thing. Like if I
Speaker 2: die tomorrow, I feel pretty good that people know that,
Speaker 2: Like I've been on this world to help you feel seen,
Speaker 2: because I don't believe this life is for me. I
Speaker 2: believe that all these experiences I've been through is for
Speaker 2: me to help other people, because my life is an
Speaker 2: up and down road culture that I'm like, I'm like,
Speaker 2: God gave me this to help other people to be
Speaker 2: for a reason. There's there's no reason that the gay
Speaker 2: guy became a dad this way unless it was to help.
Speaker 1: People and ended up on the platforms that you're.
Speaker 2: That you're able to reach this for someone else.
Speaker 1: It was all meant to be. Yeah, But before I
Speaker 1: let you go, Caromo, what was your last I choose
Speaker 1: me moment?
Speaker 2: Ooh. I had a really important relationship in my life
Speaker 2: and because that person could not be a partner to
Speaker 2: me in a way that I needed them to be
Speaker 2: a partner. And I chose me because I decided that
Speaker 2: what I want and hope for in this in relationships,
Speaker 2: going forward, business, personal, is for someone to be able
Speaker 2: to show up equally. And so I said, if it's
Speaker 2: not equal, I'm not doing it, And so I chose me,
Speaker 2: which was beautiful.
Speaker 1: It is so beautiful. You are beautiful. Thank you for
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 2: Love.
Speaker 1: I'll see you around, yes, you will.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for everything.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Wow. Okay, Caromo is so incredible. I just
Speaker 1: I love him. I just walked away from that conversation
Speaker 1: feeling so empowered to revisit some boundaries in my life
Speaker 1: and to just live an organic, authentic, open life like him.
Speaker 1: Thank you Karamo for coming on. You are so amazing.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait for the new season of his talk
Speaker 1: show and the new season of Queer Eye. Such great
Speaker 1: work he's doing. As we continue to choose ourselves. Each week,
Speaker 1: I want you to think about boundaries. We talk a
Speaker 1: lot about that in this conversation, and I want you
Speaker 1: to really ask yourself. Are you having healthy boundaries with
Speaker 1: the people in your life? Are you having to set
Speaker 1: boundaries when it comes to your work life? After you
Speaker 1: think on that, if you feel unbalanced, I want to
Speaker 1: challenge you and empower you to start following some of
Speaker 1: those instructions that Karamo gave us today. What do you want?
Speaker 1: Be clear? What do you deserve? Setting boundaries helps make
Speaker 1: sure that your needs are met and that you can
Speaker 1: show up the way you want to show up. Without
Speaker 1: them in place, it can be very hard to be
Speaker 1: the best version of ourselves, and I know it might
Speaker 1: not be easy, but this week I want you to
Speaker 1: try and define and set one boundary with that intention.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to I Choose Me. You can check
Speaker 1: out all our social links. In our show notes, you
Speaker 1: can learn all about Karamo. You can rate us, review us,
Speaker 1: and be sure to use the hashtag I Choose Me.
Speaker 1: I will be right here next week. I hope you
Speaker 1: will choose to be here too,