WEBVTT - I Choose...Letting People In with Karamo

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about

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<v Speaker 1>the choices we make and where they lead us. I

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<v Speaker 1>am so excited for my guests today. Not only do

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<v Speaker 1>they have a huge heart, but they are someone who

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<v Speaker 1>is putting so much good back out into the world

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<v Speaker 1>and spreading a message of love and positivity. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>all about that. My guest today is known for being

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<v Speaker 1>a part of the Fab Five on Netflix's Emmy winning

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<v Speaker 1>Queer Eye. He's an author, an LGBTQIA plus activist, and

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<v Speaker 1>he is the host of his very own talk show.

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<v Speaker 1>Please welcome Caramo to the I Choose Me Podcast. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>very excited to talk to you, so thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very shcityed to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you remember the last time we saw each other?

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, well a fortune, real.

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<v Speaker 1>Fortune, celebrity Wheel of Fortune.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, of course you thought I would forget that. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean standing next first of all, standing next to one

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<v Speaker 2>of the most iconic and most beautiful women in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a huge fan of you, but also like we

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<v Speaker 2>were on there and I was like, what the fuck

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<v Speaker 2>is going on? Right now?

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<v Speaker 1>I can This was one of the most fun days

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<v Speaker 1>because you were struggling so hard and we were trying

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<v Speaker 1>to send you like the answers struggling.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was the pressure.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a pressure, that's what it was.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I felt for you. But anybody who

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't seen that episode of us on Wheel of Fortune,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to check it out because it will make

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<v Speaker 1>you laugh. Oh very well, very very well. Such an

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<v Speaker 1>exciting time in my life and yours.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, tell me what's making your exciting? I want to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>I know it's about when you're interviewing me, but I'm

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<v Speaker 2>always like, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I just have a lot of really fun new things

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<v Speaker 1>happening at this age in the stage in my life

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<v Speaker 1>I never really saw coming, and it's just all happening

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<v Speaker 1>and I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's exciting. Yeah, that's really true.

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<v Speaker 1>I listened to your book over the weekend. I couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>read it. I had to listen to it, but I

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<v Speaker 1>really enjoyed it. I got to know so much about

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<v Speaker 1>not just you, but the culture that you grew up in.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was so personal and honest and candid, and

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<v Speaker 1>I know that was a few years ago now that

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<v Speaker 1>you did that book, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it still all applies, yeah, change it was.

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<v Speaker 1>The journey to where you are today is so layered. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>for those of us that don't know, can we just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like rewind to the beginning or talk about,

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<v Speaker 1>like you grew up in Houston. I did, and I

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<v Speaker 1>would just love to hear about your household and your

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with your parents a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure. So I grew up in Houston, Texas. I'm the

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<v Speaker 2>son of immigrants, so on first generation America, and my

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<v Speaker 2>parents are jamaking in Cuban. And it was a it

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<v Speaker 2>was a tough childhood because my father was not a

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<v Speaker 2>great father. So I grew up in a house where

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<v Speaker 2>my mother was abuse. He wasn't responsible with money, So

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<v Speaker 2>we moved constantly, constantly, constantly moved. I don't think I

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<v Speaker 2>ever stayed in a place longer than a year, honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>just moving, moving, moving. And then it got worse. We

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<v Speaker 2>were in a hotel for a little bit, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just now I realized we were homeless. At the time,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought it was like a fun little like for

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<v Speaker 2>an hotel. You know, we're all staying twin beds, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's so crazy with you how you process things as

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<v Speaker 2>a kid and then as an adult you're like, hmm,

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<v Speaker 2>that was a mess. But yeah, but there was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there was, it was, it was, it was. It was

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<v Speaker 2>difficult childhood because I had these intersections of my personality

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<v Speaker 2>that just never seemed to fit with anywhere I lived

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<v Speaker 2>or anywhere I was. So it was my father did

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<v Speaker 2>this thing that he thought he was doing the best,

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<v Speaker 2>where he always moved into an apartment complex that was

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<v Speaker 2>on the edge of whatever rich neighborhood that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we could be near. And the reason it was because

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<v Speaker 2>he wanted us to be in the best school districts,

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<v Speaker 2>and so those school districts were predominantly white because of

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<v Speaker 2>the income. And so now here I am, We're in

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<v Speaker 2>the apartment complex next to the rich neighborhood. So I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to the good school, but I don't have the

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<v Speaker 2>money they have. I also am a my name is Kamos.

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<v Speaker 2>That's completely different from everyone else, who is John Kevin,

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Jason. Then, like I tell people, like they would

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<v Speaker 2>bring lunches and they had peanut butter and jelly sandwiches,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'd be bringing Oxtella curry goat because it was

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<v Speaker 2>whatever we ate the night before. Like imagine a little

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<v Speaker 2>sixth grader bringing in food to Mike uwaid. It just

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<v Speaker 2>was all a train rack, you know. And now I

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<v Speaker 2>look back and I laugh and I think it's humorous,

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<v Speaker 2>But in the moment, it was like what in the hell.

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<v Speaker 2>So it just seemed like I never just fit. But

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<v Speaker 2>even with that happening, and always in having the hard

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<v Speaker 2>things at home, I just still felt like there's some

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<v Speaker 2>there's gonna be something better. I just always was optimistic.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just an optimistic person. I just always have been that, like,

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<v Speaker 2>this can't be it. There has to be something more.

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<v Speaker 2>There has to be something more, There has to be

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<v Speaker 2>a better life. And that's sort of how I lived

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<v Speaker 2>my childhood into my adulthood.

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<v Speaker 1>And what's your relationship with your parents?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, now, oh, mom, my mother and I. So I'm

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<v Speaker 2>the youngest, I have all sisters, and mother and I

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<v Speaker 2>are very close, so we hang all the time. I

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<v Speaker 2>actually just moved my mom to California a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, so I bought our house out And for

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<v Speaker 2>anybody who's from California and Woodland Hills, which is nice

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<v Speaker 2>and it's just come out all the time. My father

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<v Speaker 2>and I have had a tumultuous relationship because at the

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<v Speaker 2>age of fifteen, I let him in. Regarding my sexuality.

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<v Speaker 2>Use the term coming out. It's actually a term that

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<v Speaker 2>I've been spending the last couple of years trying to destroy.

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<v Speaker 1>I love this, by the way, because I've never felt

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<v Speaker 1>comfortable saying coming out. That phrase just didn't feel right.

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<v Speaker 2>It's antiquated, and I think there was a time in

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<v Speaker 2>the LGBTQIA community where it was empowering. It's like, you're

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<v Speaker 2>not going to force me to hide, I am going

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<v Speaker 2>to be But now it's like we're forcing people to

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<v Speaker 2>make these grand announcements to people who don't matter to

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<v Speaker 2>them and don't have any any bearing on their lives.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're also forcing people to say to someone you

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<v Speaker 2>now have the power to accept or deny me based

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<v Speaker 2>on me coming out to you, and that's actually not

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<v Speaker 2>the process. The process is I'm going to let you

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<v Speaker 2>in because I trust you and I love you. And

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<v Speaker 2>if I don't want to let you in, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>mean I'm ashamed of who I am. It doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>that I am not okay with me. It means that

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<v Speaker 2>the same way, I don't let everyone my front door.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't need to let you into my personal life

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<v Speaker 2>because you're not worthy of that space, or maybe you're

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<v Speaker 2>not emotionally or mentally intelligent enough to handle it. And again,

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<v Speaker 2>your choice, it's my choice. It's my choice. You don't

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<v Speaker 2>get the power to accept or deny me because I

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<v Speaker 2>have already accepted myself, right, And so I left my

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<v Speaker 2>family in my family when I was fifteen regarding my sexuality,

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<v Speaker 2>and my father had an adverse reaction. He just couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>reconcile his relationship with his son with his relationship with

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<v Speaker 2>his religion, and it became abusive. He didn't you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't have memory in high school. He would just

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<v Speaker 2>walk past me for days and not talking too, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was abusive. And then and then once I,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, graduated high school, I was like, deuces, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't need to do in my life. You know, I'm gone.

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<v Speaker 2>And we didn't speak for about I don't know, thirteen years, fourteen,

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen years. We didn't speak, no contact at all. And

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<v Speaker 2>during that time I forgave him, like I'm one of

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<v Speaker 2>these people who I don't hold on to grudges. I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like there's a nature in me that I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know where it came from, but I'm just like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to hold on to like your bs.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to hold onto it like I'm able

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<v Speaker 2>to release it pretty easily.

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<v Speaker 1>That's lucky, good, Yes, it is.

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<v Speaker 2>I help so many people who don't know how to

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<v Speaker 2>do that, and I'm always trying to give them the

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<v Speaker 2>tools too, And like, for some reason, my entire life,

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<v Speaker 2>I've been able to. And so it wasn't until about

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<v Speaker 2>maybe six years ago he came back around and he

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<v Speaker 2>wrote me a letter and said, I'm so sorry for

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<v Speaker 2>the way I treated you. I'm so sorry for now

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<v Speaker 2>loving you as a parent, and he asked for my forgiveness,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I forgave you. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I forgave you years ago. You've been holding onto this.

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<v Speaker 2>I moved on, and so now we have somewhat of

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<v Speaker 2>a relationship. You know, it's it's growing. But yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's me and my parents and my family.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that makes me feel so good. I'm happy that

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<v Speaker 1>you that he came to that place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, on his own journey, his own journey, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think what I've learned from that that

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<v Speaker 2>I try to teach people is, you know, setting the

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<v Speaker 2>boundaries and being clear about you're not going to be

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<v Speaker 2>allowed to hurt me allowed him the space to make

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<v Speaker 2>a choice for the turpe of person he decided he

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<v Speaker 2>should be, and allowed him to say because I realized

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to force anybody to learn, right, It's

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<v Speaker 2>not my job. I'm open to helping somebody grow, but

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<v Speaker 2>I can't help you learn about the person that you

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<v Speaker 2>want to be. And I say that both professionally and

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<v Speaker 2>just as a human being, I can't. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>make the choice that you want to learn, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like I can be blue in the face telling you

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<v Speaker 2>to read this book, learn about this, understand and until

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<v Speaker 2>you make that choice, no, But once you make that choice,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be there with open arms to help

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<v Speaker 2>you to grow, to help you to understand how you

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<v Speaker 2>can use that knowledge to be better and to be

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<v Speaker 2>a better human being for yourself and other people. And

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<v Speaker 2>because I let him go, he made the choice to learn,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I was there to help him grow. And

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<v Speaker 2>he's growing into a better man that he's ever been

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<v Speaker 2>in his seventy five years. He's finally turning into the

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<v Speaker 2>man that maybe he should have been when we were

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<v Speaker 2>all younger.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh, I mean, thank god he's there now, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>sorry for those stairs. Yeah god, you are a beautiful,

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<v Speaker 1>open gay man. And I think that maybe one of

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<v Speaker 1>the bravest, scariest liberating moments in any LGBTQ plus person's

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<v Speaker 1>life is that I choose me moment when you choose

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<v Speaker 1>to open up to the world or to your inner

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<v Speaker 1>circle about your identity, and that you choose to let

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<v Speaker 1>those people in, like we were talking about, and you

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<v Speaker 1>did that when you were a teenager your set. You said,

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<v Speaker 1>what was that like for you? And who was the

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<v Speaker 1>first person you let in?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was just kind of a group in

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<v Speaker 2>high school. See, I didn't have any choice. The reason

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<v Speaker 2>I let people n I fifteen wasn't It was just

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<v Speaker 2>because all my peers were dating and I wanted to date,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were all talking about crushes. And I've always

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who knows me personally knows how to have an

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<v Speaker 2>honest filter, Like I mean, I like, I just am

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<v Speaker 2>just like I can't. I just not able to hold

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<v Speaker 2>it in. I'm able to And so I'm like, you

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<v Speaker 2>all are talking about who you like I want to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about who I like. And the guy that had

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<v Speaker 2>a crush on was his name was John Brown, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was just beautiful. And we sat next together because

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<v Speaker 2>my name was Caramo Brown and he was like six '

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<v Speaker 2>four and gorgeous, and I just thought he was the

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<v Speaker 2>most gorgeous person. So I just spit it out. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, is anybody else obsessed with John Brown? Because

0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:40.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm a Brown And so it just became that conversation.

0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.760
<v Speaker 2>So it was like, you know, I just it was

0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.200
<v Speaker 2>just out of that teen hormones running in that I

0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.079
<v Speaker 2>was like, I cannot, I can't, I can't. I gotta

0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:50.439
<v Speaker 2>say it.

0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I really wish that I grew up

0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.520
<v Speaker 1>with you. We would have been very good friends.

0:11:55.640 --> 0:12:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, you it would have been a good time.

0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:06.600
<v Speaker 1>Have been trouble. I've been thinking about something, and I'm

0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.600
<v Speaker 1>sure if I have questions about this subject, other people do,

0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.360
<v Speaker 1>so maybe this will be useful to some people. I

0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.840
<v Speaker 1>have someone in my life whom I love very much

0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.160
<v Speaker 1>that is gay, but we've never really talked about it,

0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.240
<v Speaker 1>not like really gotten deep and spoken about it. Yeah,

0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.680
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know why it wasn't like it. Maybe

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:31.360
<v Speaker 1>there were times when I avoided the conversation and everybody knew,

0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 1>but nobody was talking about it. So I didn't want

0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.240
<v Speaker 1>to be the one that talked about it. And I'm

0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 1>the baby of the family and it just didn't feel

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.840
<v Speaker 1>like my place. Yeah, but how I mean for anybody

0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.160
<v Speaker 1>out there who might be struggling with the same thing, Like,

0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.920
<v Speaker 1>what advice do you have for me to start that

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.480
<v Speaker 1>conversation and why should I start that conversation?

0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think the importance we starting that conversation is

0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 2>letting somebody know that your safe space. I think still

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.760
<v Speaker 2>even in twenty twenty four. Oh my god, look at

0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.440
<v Speaker 2>your own dog. Hi, maybe what's her name?

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.840
<v Speaker 1>This is Sandy.

0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.839
<v Speaker 2>I wish you could see my two at my feet

0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.440
<v Speaker 2>right now. They're Leo, They're both. Isn't it crazy how

0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:15.880
<v Speaker 2>they just stay right beside you.

0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:17.400
<v Speaker 1>I have three dogs in here right now.

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.640
<v Speaker 2>No. But I think even in twenty twenty four, we

0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.840
<v Speaker 2>forget that, like, this world is still unfortunately an unsafe

0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:31.679
<v Speaker 2>space and in some places where Astqia people and I

0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 2>think the more people know that there's people in their

0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.079
<v Speaker 2>life that want to be a safe space for them,

0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.760
<v Speaker 2>that want to be there for them, want to make

0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.080
<v Speaker 2>sure they're advocating for them being an ally. It is important.

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I think it's important for any one of us. And

0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.480
<v Speaker 2>so when you ask that question of like why should

0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.319
<v Speaker 2>I want to be curious, because it lets the other

0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 2>person know that I want to learn and I want

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.760
<v Speaker 2>to know that I can be there to support you,

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that you always feel seen. It's an

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 2>important thing we all want that, you know. I equate

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 2>it to kind of what I'm trying to do in

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.880
<v Speaker 2>this space in my life. I realized that I was

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 2>one of these gay guys before that had a lot

0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.720
<v Speaker 2>of girl I have tons of girlfriends, but I would

0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.319
<v Speaker 2>always make comments about like lady parts, like oh, I

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.680
<v Speaker 2>don't want to see it, I don't whatever. And I

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 2>realized one day I was like, this is so fucking

0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>excuse me for cussing, but I was like, this is

0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 2>so like deal with misogyny and like like the fact

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 2>that I'm like ill to the female body and I'm

0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.080
<v Speaker 2>like supposed to be an ally to women, and like

0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 2>when I'm having some straight men, I don't I don't

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.120
<v Speaker 2>know enough about the female body and I know about

0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:39.560
<v Speaker 2>their feelings, but I don't know about like how to

0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 2>support them in conversations that I was like, I want

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.040
<v Speaker 2>to stop doing that. And so I've been in this

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:46.960
<v Speaker 2>space about learning about the female body, like you can't

0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 2>even know. I'm digressing a little bit. Oh my gosh,

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.720
<v Speaker 2>the rabbit holes and the books that I'm going down

0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 2>to learn. But I'm doing this because I need my

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 2>girlfriends to know that when it comes to their health

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.360
<v Speaker 2>and the things there feel and how they're changing, that

0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm a safe space that we don't have to just

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:10.800
<v Speaker 2>talk about boys, cocktails, going out, you know, like I mean,

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.640
<v Speaker 2>we do have deeper conversations, but I want them to

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.840
<v Speaker 2>know that when they're talking about what's important to them

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and how they feel, that I'm there and that I've

0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 2>taken the time to learn and read. And I think

0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.760
<v Speaker 2>to your point in your conversation by saying I want

0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 2>to learn and I want you to know that I'm

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 2>here for you, that there's something that's special about that.

0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 2>But I think the way to approach that conversation the

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.080
<v Speaker 2>second part of your question is is this letting the

0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.120
<v Speaker 2>people in your life know that I'm so willing you know,

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.360
<v Speaker 2>you don't even have to bring up sexuality, your gender

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.320
<v Speaker 2>or you know, in the gender if you don't want to.

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I don't know where that relationship is, but privately

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 2>being around them and saying I'm I'm so open to talking.

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:53.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm so open to being here for you. I'm so

0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.440
<v Speaker 2>open to just being a place that you can talk to.

0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 2>They're going to get the clue that you want to

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.640
<v Speaker 2>be there have conversations, and that allows you to organically

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 2>find it. But I think just the desire and what

0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 2>you're asking is such an important thing, because what you're

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.280
<v Speaker 2>essentially saying is I want to be the best ally

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 2>and support for people who already have right.

0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Right. Yeah, I'm very in tune with keeping the conversation

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 1>present and open, you know, and being accepting of I've

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.960
<v Speaker 1>just I'm always been accepting. There's no question for me,

0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 1>like yeah, and so I have always just accepted it.

0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 1>But I do think that verbalizing that and just clarifying

0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 1>what you're talking about that I do care enough about

0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 1>you to want you to know that it's safe to

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 1>talk to me about anything.

0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, about anything exact.

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 1>I like that. Over here at our house, my family

0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 1>and I are fans of your shows. We're just basically

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Coroma fans over here. Yeah, no denying it. You've just

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.280
<v Speaker 1>finished the filming the upcoming season of Queer Eye, which

0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 1>is season nine, right.

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Season nine, Yes, in Vegas, and oh boy, for people

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:15.040
<v Speaker 2>to see.

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.919
<v Speaker 1>This, that's gotta be a good season.

0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.919
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna tell you it's a good season because Vegas

0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.159
<v Speaker 2>is one of those places that you realize outside of

0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.240
<v Speaker 2>the strip, there is so much heart and unfortunately there's

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:35.359
<v Speaker 2>so much hurt because this transient city. People come and

0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 2>they so one of the people. We're not gonna talk

0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.880
<v Speaker 2>about this, yeah, but I can share a little bit.

0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.439
<v Speaker 2>There's a person that we're helping who worked at her

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 2>job for twenty five years and then that job just

0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:50.120
<v Speaker 2>told her they were closing randomly.

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:52.679
<v Speaker 1>And twenty five years. Wow.

0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.440
<v Speaker 2>And this is this is that her whole life changed

0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>literally a week before we were going to help her. Wow.

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.199
<v Speaker 2>Perfect timing, perfect timing, perfect timing.

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean for her to grow with you, wow.

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Yes, everything, for her to be able to grieve the

0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.080
<v Speaker 2>change in her life, understand how she's going to have

0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.440
<v Speaker 2>to move forward believing in herself again. Also just financially

0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.600
<v Speaker 2>like for us to be able to come in and say,

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 2>here is some support as you're about to go through

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 2>this new change. We just I just fell in love

0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.760
<v Speaker 2>with the people who live outside of the Strip of Vegas,

0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, Wow, this town is more than

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.439
<v Speaker 2>we give it credit for, and so I'm so excited

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 2>to see it. We also have a new cast member, Jared.

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and what happened Bobby left the show? You and

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Bobby are close? We're close? Are you still close?

0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Me and Bobby are like best friends. He lived out,

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 2>so we see each other all the time.

0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh perfect. I love that I've had that happen where

0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.959
<v Speaker 1>you're on a long running show and then someone that

0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 1>you love, your friend, your castmate, leaves, and I know

0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.679
<v Speaker 1>that can be difficult ground and like, how did you

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:08.160
<v Speaker 1>navigate that friendship with someone when you're working relationship ends?

0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Because I think a lot of people can relate to that,

0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.040
<v Speaker 1>no matter what their career is.

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. For me, like, I believe that any friendship. So

0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I have people who I work with that I'm friends

0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 2>with at work, and I have friends and this is

0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:21.520
<v Speaker 2>not on Queerie. Queer as one of the shows I

0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.440
<v Speaker 2>get along with everyone, So I'm friends. I'm friends with everyone,

0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I say to say in other spaces, I've had friends

0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.840
<v Speaker 2>who work friends and I have friends that I know

0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:31.680
<v Speaker 2>that I want to build a relationship with, and I

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.040
<v Speaker 2>think sometimes people don't have that clear distinction, and so

0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:39.280
<v Speaker 2>things happen, and transitions happen. It becomes muddy and weird

0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.280
<v Speaker 2>because some people don't know where they stand. Yeah, we've

0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.520
<v Speaker 2>never had a real transparent conversation because it's hard because

0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.080
<v Speaker 2>the assumption is, because we've spent eight hours a day

0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.400
<v Speaker 2>together for four years, five years, twenty years, that we

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.359
<v Speaker 2>know each other. And sometimes you realize you don't. You

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.600
<v Speaker 2>know a version of me that's at work. You know

0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.240
<v Speaker 2>this part of me, but I've never let you into

0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the rest of my life. And so for me, maintaining

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.880
<v Speaker 2>the relationship was more so about being an empathetic listener.

0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, I tell people all the time. My granny

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.440
<v Speaker 2>used to tell me I have two ears and one mouth,

0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.240
<v Speaker 2>which means he's supposed to be doing one of those

0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.880
<v Speaker 2>things double time. And the thing that you're doing double

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.600
<v Speaker 2>time is listening. And so during this transition, I realized

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.439
<v Speaker 2>my job was not to run my mouth. It was

0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 2>to listen to how everyone is feeling, Like, tell me

0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>how you're feeling, and know that I'm space that is

0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>not trying to solve it, not trying to be a solution,

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.040
<v Speaker 2>but just wants you to know that you're being heard,

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:39.720
<v Speaker 2>because I think that sometimes in transition, people don't feel heard,

0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 2>and we don't feel heard, that's when the feelings of anxiety,

0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.280
<v Speaker 2>of loneliness, of isolation pop up, because you feel like

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.919
<v Speaker 2>I'm on this island by myself. And so what helped

0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 2>my transition with Bobby is that he always knows he's heard.

0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.120
<v Speaker 2>He's always felt hurt, and he knows that I'm listening

0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.200
<v Speaker 2>and that I'm not here to judge his choices or

0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 2>anyone else's choices. I'm here just to listen and let

0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.600
<v Speaker 2>him know that I'm here for him. And you know,

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.560
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that I love about what Bobby

0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 2>does is like like he gives me a call, like

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:15.960
<v Speaker 2>when we were shooting, and he's like, I hope it's

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.280
<v Speaker 2>going great. I hope the season's awesome. I hope this

0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>is happening, and I'm like that just shows the character

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 2>of you know, He's like, I hope the guys are

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.280
<v Speaker 2>having a good time, and it just shows that for

0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:30.479
<v Speaker 2>each of us, you know, like no matter what, we

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.439
<v Speaker 2>understand that there's a bigger piece, which was helping people

0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.800
<v Speaker 2>and you just still want that to be good. Yeah,

0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate, right.

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.639
<v Speaker 1>How is it working with your new castmate, Jeremiah.

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Jeremiah is one of the most Have you ever met

0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Jeremiah or Nate?

0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.639
<v Speaker 1>I've met Nate, I don't know about I think I

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:50.080
<v Speaker 1>met Jeremiah on a plane once.

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Oh my gosh, you're very love He's he's one

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:59.840
<v Speaker 2>of the sweetest, most honest people ever, dear kind at all.

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.359
<v Speaker 2>So what he brought to this season, and if I

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.879
<v Speaker 2>can be really transparent with you, is that you know

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.040
<v Speaker 2>this from working on a long running show. After a while,

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 2>it becomes a routine. You know, everyone knows what they're doing,

0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.720
<v Speaker 2>and everyone knows what their role, and it becomes very

0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:21.639
<v Speaker 2>Having Jeremiah there made me see this show like how

0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:22.800
<v Speaker 2>I saw season one.

0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's so good.

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Because I had someone there who from the first day.

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 2>I remember we walked into a house. On the very

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:34.920
<v Speaker 2>first episode of season nine, we walked to the house

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.919
<v Speaker 2>and Jeremiah, as we were walking out and we were

0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:40.520
<v Speaker 2>all deciding what we were going to do, started crying

0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:45.040
<v Speaker 2>and he was so tearful, and I was like, I

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:47.239
<v Speaker 2>turned him and I was like, baby, what's wrong? And

0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.440
<v Speaker 2>he was like, this is so thoughtful. Y'all are being

0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.119
<v Speaker 2>so thoughtful about what you're about to do for this person,

0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.160
<v Speaker 2>because a lot of people don't realize, like we really

0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 2>are thoughtful. We really think about it, you know this,

0:22:57.600 --> 0:22:59.199
<v Speaker 2>We really figure out what we're going to do to

0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.200
<v Speaker 2>help them, and we tell the producers, and the producers

0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.360
<v Speaker 2>then support what we've said how we're going to help them.

0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:08.639
<v Speaker 2>And so he was like crying. He was like, Wow,

0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 2>this is not just something where you know, you get

0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 2>on camera and then you walk away. Y'all are really

0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:16.000
<v Speaker 2>huddled up talking about what's going to be best for

0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 2>this person to have the best life. And I was like, yeah, baby,

0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 2>we do. And it just it just gives you this

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:25.399
<v Speaker 2>sort of like reinvigorating like and so and he works

0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.640
<v Speaker 2>so hard this season. Sorry, I'm laboring on Jeremiah so much,

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 2>but he worked so hard that it made us even

0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:37.920
<v Speaker 2>work even harder because he was fresh and we wanted

0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:41.800
<v Speaker 2>to match him and like his excitement and so our

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.880
<v Speaker 2>excitement all went up too. Not saying we weren't excited,

0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:47.200
<v Speaker 2>but like it can lose.

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Its vigor after a while.

0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.000
<v Speaker 2>When it comes, and so we're used to it. We

0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:55.200
<v Speaker 2>know formulas being the maggot. We've seen the formula, we've

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:59.440
<v Speaker 2>seen the magic we know, and with him there, every

0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:03.120
<v Speaker 2>episode in season nine felt like every episode in season one.

0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's great, those fresh eyes. Fresh eye aspired that.

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:11.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, every moment and which was beautiful and so ever

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:15.080
<v Speaker 2>people to see this because I'm like, I'm like, we

0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.560
<v Speaker 2>haven't been like this, patting my own stuff on the

0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:22.680
<v Speaker 2>back like this since one or two, like where you're

0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:28.880
<v Speaker 2>just in it like everyone over hours, hours and hours

0:24:28.960 --> 0:24:30.879
<v Speaker 2>over like when we did like season one and two

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 2>and three where we're like I would be sitting there

0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:35.800
<v Speaker 2>like really digging and having conversations for hours and putting

0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 2>hours and now coming back and we just did that,

0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, okay, we're thanks, Jeremiah, thank you.

0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh good. Fresh energy is always good always for anything, anything, right, Yeah,

0:24:55.880 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 1>talk about fresh energy. You had your father too, incredible, Yes,

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.560
<v Speaker 1>and then your journey to fatherhood happened in kind of

0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:10.919
<v Speaker 1>a surprising, somewhat shocking a little shocking. How did you

0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 1>find out you were Jason's father and then Christian came

0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:14.399
<v Speaker 1>into your life?

0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes? Yes, yes, so I have only had where everyone's

0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 2>adult here had sex with one girl he was my

0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:26.240
<v Speaker 2>best friend. You're best friend since we were in seventh grade.

0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Eighth was beginning ending in seventh grade, and she had

0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a boyfriend in ninth grade who was a senior and

0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:35.959
<v Speaker 2>she was going to lose his virginity to him, and

0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:38.040
<v Speaker 2>she didn't want to be bad, and so she asked

0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:42.320
<v Speaker 2>me if we could practice. She knew itay, yeah, I

0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:44.760
<v Speaker 2>was like, I was like, okay, yeah, sure, this makes sense.

0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:49.159
<v Speaker 2>We're fifteenth for out of practice. And I mean, she

0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:51.359
<v Speaker 2>knew I was gay, but it was like I was safe.

0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:52.800
<v Speaker 1>You were safe. Yeah, I was.

0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:55.399
<v Speaker 2>I was a guy she could be weird with and

0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.840
<v Speaker 2>vulnerable with, and she wasn't. She couldn't be that with

0:25:57.880 --> 0:26:01.640
<v Speaker 2>her boyfriend, but she could me. So we slipped school

0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:08.360
<v Speaker 2>and we tried. It lasted no joke six seconds at

0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:14.240
<v Speaker 2>and I literally sat on the side of the bed

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:17.199
<v Speaker 2>and I apologize to her now for this, and we

0:26:17.280 --> 0:26:18.680
<v Speaker 2>have a good joke, but at the moment, I was

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:20.520
<v Speaker 2>like on the mat of your bed, like, no, I

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:21.880
<v Speaker 2>don't want to do that ever again. No, I don't

0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:22.080
<v Speaker 2>want to.

0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:26.960
<v Speaker 1>It was probably a little hard for her to her

0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>and like.

0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:29.520
<v Speaker 2>That's why I apologize and we laughed about it. Now

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 2>but I was like, I took your first moment away,

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Like you would have had a better shot with him

0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:35.560
<v Speaker 2>where a special and he would have held you and

0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:37.000
<v Speaker 2>he was your boyfriend.

0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Like who's to know?

0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I used to know, but I'm like, you definitely

0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:42.840
<v Speaker 2>didn't have a good good It wasn't good with the

0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 2>gay guy. We definitely know, me on the side of

0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:49.719
<v Speaker 2>the bed rocking holding myself a blanket was not the

0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 2>first good look for it. And so she, you know,

0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 2>we laughed about it. We stayed friends. And then at

0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:59.159
<v Speaker 2>the end of that school year, she moved away. And

0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:01.880
<v Speaker 2>this is you know, I'm forty three about it, forty four,

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:05.520
<v Speaker 2>So this is nineteen ninety five. There was no cell

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:08.919
<v Speaker 2>phones like there are today. There was no Instagram or

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:11.439
<v Speaker 2>social media. So when someone moved, if you didn't have

0:27:11.480 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 2>their home phone number or mailing address, you know, like

0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.840
<v Speaker 2>they were gone. Yeah, And I went on my life.

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I went on with high school and I just she

0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 2>I thought about her, but she was, you know, she

0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:27.760
<v Speaker 2>just was a kid that moved away. And then when

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:29.960
<v Speaker 2>I was twenty five years old, I got a stack

0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:32.000
<v Speaker 2>of paper for back child support. I was living in

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 2>California at this point. For this kid. I didn't know.

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:38.000
<v Speaker 2>And if I can be honest with you, I thought

0:27:38.040 --> 0:27:40.200
<v Speaker 2>I was being punked because I was on MTV's Real

0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:43.359
<v Speaker 2>World when I was after undergrad. I was twenty three

0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:46.399
<v Speaker 2>years old, and I thought that MTV was doing like

0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.000
<v Speaker 2>some pumped of the gay guy, like, let's punk the

0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:51.320
<v Speaker 2>gay guy that he has a kid. And so when

0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:53.320
<v Speaker 2>I saw these papers on my doorstep, I thought that

0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Ashton Kutcher was in my house.

0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:56.840
<v Speaker 1>You thought he was just gonna pop out?

0:27:57.000 --> 0:27:58.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I thought it was like I thought like someone

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:03.000
<v Speaker 2>was pranking me. Why why would I ever think that

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:05.639
<v Speaker 2>was the last time I'd ever saw a girl or like,

0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:08.840
<v Speaker 2>didn't put a girl like and this is years now,

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:11.359
<v Speaker 2>a decade. I'm like, there's no way that I have

0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:15.120
<v Speaker 2>a kid. So Ashon Coutcher's in my house, I read

0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:17.520
<v Speaker 2>a plank me. I literally went down to my car

0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:22.840
<v Speaker 2>and changed clothes into a new outfit because I wanted, Yeah,

0:28:22.840 --> 0:28:25.879
<v Speaker 2>I want to look good for oh. I was like,

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:28.560
<v Speaker 2>I got to and I walked in the house and

0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:30.320
<v Speaker 2>if you would have saw the performance I had when

0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I walk in that house, like I would and nobody

0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:36.359
<v Speaker 2>was there to see it because the house's empty, And

0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:40.200
<v Speaker 2>so I thought that the papers were for my neighbor,

0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:42.400
<v Speaker 2>who is this straight bachelor, And I was like, oh,

0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:44.440
<v Speaker 2>they're putting the wrong doorstep. I'll give you to him tomorrow.

0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:47.240
<v Speaker 2>I literally threw the papers out, and later that night

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 2>is when I opened them and I saw her name

0:28:51.000 --> 0:28:53.080
<v Speaker 2>them my name, and it was my first time seeing

0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:56.880
<v Speaker 2>her name since I was fifteen, my son's name, and

0:28:57.760 --> 0:29:00.240
<v Speaker 2>it blew my mind, and I immediately went back to

0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Texas to confirm paternity. That took about two weeks. They

0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:08.520
<v Speaker 2>confirmed the fraternity and they gave me her address and

0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 2>I went to her house and I showed up on

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:13.760
<v Speaker 2>her doorstep same way the paper showed up on mind.

0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 2>And when I opened the door, she was shocked because

0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.080
<v Speaker 2>she didn't come after me for back child support. She

0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:23.600
<v Speaker 2>had applied for benefits for her other children she had had.

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:26.800
<v Speaker 2>She had five children total, and she had applied for

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:28.840
<v Speaker 2>food stamps, and because she had put me on the

0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:32.520
<v Speaker 2>birth certificate, the state came after me. Wow the benefit

0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:34.840
<v Speaker 2>she was receiving. So when I showed up on her doorstep,

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:36.400
<v Speaker 2>she was shocked.

0:29:36.680 --> 0:29:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Everybody was shocked.

0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Everyone was shocked, and in that moment realizing she was shocked,

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 2>any anger that I had went away because I realized

0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:50.800
<v Speaker 2>she wasn't being malicious. She was just a fifteen year

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:53.840
<v Speaker 2>old who was trying to make the right, best decisions.

0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 2>And the first that was I knew one of us

0:29:57.720 --> 0:29:59.600
<v Speaker 2>had a chance of having a good life, and I

0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:01.760
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be you because you were always so kind

0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:05.680
<v Speaker 2>to me. And that's sort of why she didn't tell me.

0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:08.520
<v Speaker 2>And when you hear that, you knowing the life she had,

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:12.760
<v Speaker 2>which was abusive family, I just I forgave her and

0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:16.600
<v Speaker 2>we became best friends immediately. And then like later that day,

0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:18.280
<v Speaker 2>she was like, you want to meet your son. He's

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:23.240
<v Speaker 2>going to be home to school in three hours.

0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:24.280
<v Speaker 1>And wow, that must have blown your mind.

0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, girl, I was like twenty five and

0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:29.240
<v Speaker 2>a ten year old's a nine year old's walking home.

0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, what am I about to do right now

0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:31.560
<v Speaker 2>with this?

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Like no, yeah, I mean, but I know I can

0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:41.520
<v Speaker 1>tell for you that being a dad has just given

0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:45.880
<v Speaker 1>you such purpose and meanings in your life.

0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:50.560
<v Speaker 2>Having finding out my son, and then within six months

0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:54.040
<v Speaker 2>I petitioned for full custody with her support because she

0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.040
<v Speaker 2>had five kids twenty five years old, you know, she

0:30:57.280 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 2>was struggling. She did grat her in high school, so

0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:02.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, she had to drop off because she was

0:31:02.440 --> 0:31:05.280
<v Speaker 2>a team mom, and so it was my way of saying,

0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing well, I'm done with college. My family's doing well.

0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Now like let me support. And then within that time period,

0:31:14.080 --> 0:31:18.360
<v Speaker 2>her other son was being molested and the state was

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 2>going to remove the kids out of the house, and

0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:24.840
<v Speaker 2>so I said, well, I was a safe placement because

0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:26.600
<v Speaker 2>I was licen in the state of Texas, and so

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:28.920
<v Speaker 2>he was going to stay with me for six weeks.

0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Why they did investigation. Six weeks started to six months,

0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 2>six months to return to a year. And then one

0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:34.960
<v Speaker 2>day he walked in the room and he called me Dad,

0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:36.760
<v Speaker 2>And all of a sudden, I realized that I was

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 2>a father of too, and he was doing great. So

0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:44.160
<v Speaker 2>I asked her for if I could take custody of him.

0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:47.400
<v Speaker 2>She said yes. And and when I tell you, she

0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:50.320
<v Speaker 2>said yes, this was with This wasn't an easy yes

0:31:50.360 --> 0:31:53.000
<v Speaker 2>for her. I say that now in like hindsight, but

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:54.960
<v Speaker 2>in the moment, she's rappling, like, am I being a

0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:58.560
<v Speaker 2>bad mom? Right? She knew that I would keep them close.

0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:01.560
<v Speaker 2>She knew that I would keep them safe, and so

0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:05.280
<v Speaker 2>I became his father of two by twenty six, like

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:07.240
<v Speaker 2>a ten year old and a seven year old, and

0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:08.720
<v Speaker 2>it was like the weirdest thing.

0:32:09.000 --> 0:32:12.800
<v Speaker 1>With just no gradual build up to where they were.

0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:14.480
<v Speaker 1>It was thrown in.

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Alright deep, which I think, I like that in my life,

0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:23.080
<v Speaker 2>and so I, yeah, they saved my life because I

0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 2>was I was dealing with my own issues from my father,

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:28.720
<v Speaker 2>like I told you about of him being abusive to

0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:30.920
<v Speaker 2>my mother and him being abusive to me that I

0:32:30.960 --> 0:32:33.680
<v Speaker 2>had never processed. I had forgiven him, but I had

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:37.960
<v Speaker 2>never processed the pain. And having kids it made me

0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:39.680
<v Speaker 2>realize that I, first of all, I wanted to break

0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 2>that generational curse. I wanted to break that cycle of abuse.

0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:45.800
<v Speaker 2>It was so important to me. But breaking that cycle

0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 2>of abuse made me focus on the things that happened

0:32:48.000 --> 0:32:49.840
<v Speaker 2>to me, like when I wouldn't react to the same

0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:51.840
<v Speaker 2>way to my kids that my father reacted to me.

0:32:52.640 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 2>It made me them processed. But why did he react

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 2>to me that way? And I need a clarity? And

0:32:56.720 --> 0:32:59.920
<v Speaker 2>it made me start digging and healing myself in a way.

0:33:00.920 --> 0:33:02.760
<v Speaker 2>And I wouldn't have done if I wasn't a parent

0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:04.320
<v Speaker 2>making better decisions.

0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Right, did you instinctually parent the way you were parented

0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 1>like in the beginning, no I.

0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Knew because it was so chaotic my childhood that I

0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:18.040
<v Speaker 2>knew I had to do the opposite. So everything was

0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:20.840
<v Speaker 2>the opposite of what happened in my childhood. So for instance,

0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:23.040
<v Speaker 2>like the minute I got them, when we moved into

0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:24.520
<v Speaker 2>a place and we were in that the same place,

0:33:24.760 --> 0:33:26.760
<v Speaker 2>I was like, you're not moving around. You're going to

0:33:26.800 --> 0:33:28.360
<v Speaker 2>be in the same home, and this is going to

0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:31.280
<v Speaker 2>be your bedroom, and you're going to put It's going

0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:33.200
<v Speaker 2>to sound like the smallest things, but I was like,

0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.320
<v Speaker 2>you get to put posters on the wall because for me,

0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:39.440
<v Speaker 2>no wall ever had anything on it because I didn't

0:33:39.480 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 2>know how long I was going to be there. So

0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:46.200
<v Speaker 2>it was important that they knew that that was their room.

0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:50.040
<v Speaker 2>It just I you know, I didn't I got hit

0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:52.480
<v Speaker 2>because we you know, we were spanked and beat and

0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:55.360
<v Speaker 2>so for them, I was like, there's I'm never going

0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:57.640
<v Speaker 2>to there's always going to be a conversation, you know,

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Like it wasn't gentle parenting, so I wasn't like why

0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:02.320
<v Speaker 2>do you feel this way? It was still stern. I

0:34:02.360 --> 0:34:05.880
<v Speaker 2>was still stern dad, but it was like I'm going

0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:08.480
<v Speaker 2>to talk to you, you know, you're you're eleven years old,

0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 2>so I can have a conversation with you. Do you

0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.160
<v Speaker 2>understand the impact of the decision. Do you understand what's

0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:14.600
<v Speaker 2>going on? And now do you understand there's a consequence.

0:34:14.640 --> 0:34:16.440
<v Speaker 2>The consequence is I'm taking this. You're going to be

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:18.680
<v Speaker 2>in your room, You're not going anywhere, and these are

0:34:18.760 --> 0:34:22.080
<v Speaker 2>things are going to happen. And so and now, like

0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I with my kids, like they're not fearful of me

0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:28.799
<v Speaker 2>because they never got hit by me. They never they

0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:30.759
<v Speaker 2>were never screamed at in that way, you know what

0:34:30.800 --> 0:34:33.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean? Like it, So I just did the opposite

0:34:33.960 --> 0:34:36.960
<v Speaker 2>of what I had how I was treated, and it

0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:40.160
<v Speaker 2>healed them while also helping me to understand how to heal.

0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:43.839
<v Speaker 1>So interesting how your journey taught you so much about

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 1>how you didn't want to be I think a lot

0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 1>of people have that you provided them with that structure

0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:52.280
<v Speaker 1>and that discipline that's so vital to being a parent,

0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:56.279
<v Speaker 1>but also the acceptance and the love and the communication

0:34:56.440 --> 0:35:00.600
<v Speaker 1>and encouragement. Yeah, that's a really important balance. It's because

0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:04.839
<v Speaker 1>you don't want to lean too hard on either direction. Yeah,

0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:07.760
<v Speaker 1>you want to incorporate both of those, all of those things.

0:35:07.480 --> 0:35:10.239
<v Speaker 2>Agreed Yeah, having them feel safe enough to talk to

0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.160
<v Speaker 2>me was like the was paramount because I never felt

0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:17.719
<v Speaker 2>safe enough, Yeah, talk to my parents and my childhood,

0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:19.760
<v Speaker 2>like I could never open up to them about anything

0:35:19.760 --> 0:35:20.960
<v Speaker 2>I was feeling or going through it.

0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:26.200
<v Speaker 1>I saw the episode where you and Jason talked on

0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:30.799
<v Speaker 1>your show about overcoming his struggle with addiction, and that

0:35:30.960 --> 0:35:34.400
<v Speaker 1>traumatic experience that you went through finding him and learning

0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:38.040
<v Speaker 1>about his addiction probably the one time when you didn't

0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:40.640
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't communicative with you about what was going on

0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 1>with him.

0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, that was hard. So during the pandemic, I

0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:49.840
<v Speaker 2>found my son overdosed, and I guess, so this is

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:51.680
<v Speaker 2>what the problem is that I've talked about this for

0:35:51.840 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I put my child in a box because he was

0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:57.120
<v Speaker 2>the good child that I never had to worry about.

0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.919
<v Speaker 2>Jason has always been the responsible child. He's always been.

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:03.319
<v Speaker 2>I could count on him to be where he said

0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:04.680
<v Speaker 2>he was going to be at the time he said

0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:07.360
<v Speaker 2>he was going to be. When he was in high school.

0:36:07.400 --> 0:36:09.640
<v Speaker 2>He could stay out a little later because I knew

0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.319
<v Speaker 2>that he wasn't doing anything like he's always been that.

0:36:12.719 --> 0:36:14.880
<v Speaker 2>And his brother Chris was always the one that I

0:36:14.920 --> 0:36:16.480
<v Speaker 2>had to pay a little bit more attention to it,

0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:19.399
<v Speaker 2>like who I had to focus on a little bit more.

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 2>And because I put Jason in that box, it didn't

0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:27.720
<v Speaker 2>allow me to see any signs of him having an addiction,

0:36:28.440 --> 0:36:32.359
<v Speaker 2>because you know, when he slept in a little bit later,

0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, it's just because he's working hard.

0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:36.080
<v Speaker 2>I would fill in the blank for him because I

0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:39.800
<v Speaker 2>put him in a box. And I realized how harmful

0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:44.040
<v Speaker 2>that was, not allowing my child, or period for human beings,

0:36:44.080 --> 0:36:47.399
<v Speaker 2>not allowing human beings to be holistic that you put

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:49.239
<v Speaker 2>them in a box of like, this is who you are,

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:52.319
<v Speaker 2>and now anything you do, I'm going to fill in

0:36:52.360 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 2>the blank because I've already made my decision that this

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.480
<v Speaker 2>is who you are. And that's why I think a

0:36:56.480 --> 0:37:00.759
<v Speaker 2>lot of us miss signs of when someone is hurting, depress,

0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:05.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe having suicidal ideations, is because we've already put them

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:07.640
<v Speaker 2>in a box said, oh, oh that's my strong friend,

0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:10.040
<v Speaker 2>they can handle everything. Oh that's the friend who always

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.839
<v Speaker 2>shows up for you always. You put them in their

0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:15.719
<v Speaker 2>box and now you're not going to see anything but that.

0:37:15.760 --> 0:37:19.000
<v Speaker 2>And that's what I did with Jason, So he had

0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:22.520
<v Speaker 2>was not dealing with the pandemic at all. He wasn't

0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:25.239
<v Speaker 2>dealing with it. He felt isolated, felt alone, even though

0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:27.920
<v Speaker 2>like we talked every day and everything else, and he

0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:30.600
<v Speaker 2>was living with his girlfriend. I still put him in

0:37:30.640 --> 0:37:33.040
<v Speaker 2>a box where I was like he could handle this,

0:37:34.200 --> 0:37:37.680
<v Speaker 2>Like he's handling this, he's going great. And it just

0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:39.560
<v Speaker 2>got worse and worse. And the only reason I found

0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:41.200
<v Speaker 2>out is because he was supposed to catch a flight

0:37:41.239 --> 0:37:44.520
<v Speaker 2>to his mother's back to Houston to be with his mom,

0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:47.080
<v Speaker 2>and he missed the flight. The driver was in front

0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:50.279
<v Speaker 2>of his apartment and they couldn't find he didn't come out,

0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:54.239
<v Speaker 2>and I went over there upset.

0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Because he thought he was just sleeping.

0:37:55.760 --> 0:37:57.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I was like, I was like, Okay, now this

0:37:57.320 --> 0:37:59.560
<v Speaker 2>is being irresponsible. I know it's a pandemic, but like,

0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:02.560
<v Speaker 2>there's a flight that's been paid for, car service has

0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:04.360
<v Speaker 2>been paid for. You said you wanted to go to

0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:07.160
<v Speaker 2>your mom, like, So I went over there like angry

0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:10.600
<v Speaker 2>and then walked in and saw the door a jarred

0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:14.520
<v Speaker 2>and like him fased down in his cat's cat litter,

0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 2>and just was I mean, it was devastating. It was

0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:21.120
<v Speaker 2>one of the hardest things that I ever saw in

0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:21.600
<v Speaker 2>my life.

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:25.360
<v Speaker 1>I bet that just turned your world upside down, side down,

0:38:25.560 --> 0:38:29.200
<v Speaker 1>especially because you thought she was the one that could

0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 1>handle it and was handling it.

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:35.400
<v Speaker 2>I know, not anymore, not anymore Like I. After that moment,

0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:37.560
<v Speaker 2>I did a reevaluation of every person in my life

0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.240
<v Speaker 2>who I put in a box, and that goes from

0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:44.560
<v Speaker 2>sisters to coworkers who I was like, I mean everyone.

0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:46.680
<v Speaker 2>I just I realized there were so many people that

0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:52.040
<v Speaker 2>unconsciously I had already fined who they were, and I

0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:55.040
<v Speaker 2>erased all those definitions and said, no more defining you.

0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:58.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to allow you to be yourself without any definition,

0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:00.920
<v Speaker 2>which is going to allow me to truly see you

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:05.759
<v Speaker 2>and again hear you, really hear you, and be there

0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:06.080
<v Speaker 2>for you.

0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:09.359
<v Speaker 1>I think that that is such a great message that

0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:13.600
<v Speaker 1>you sort of took stock and reassessed your friendships and

0:39:13.640 --> 0:39:17.359
<v Speaker 1>your relationships, but even just people on the street. You know,

0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:20.680
<v Speaker 1>we put people in boxes all day long, every day. Yeah,

0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:24.480
<v Speaker 1>and nobody knows what anybody's really dealing.

0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:27.520
<v Speaker 2>With exactly exactly, And so if you want to get

0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:30.839
<v Speaker 2>to know what they're dealing with, you know, first don't

0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.480
<v Speaker 2>put them in that box. Secondly, let them know, like

0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 2>we talked about earlier, that your space to be there

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.120
<v Speaker 2>to really hear them and be there for them and

0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:42.920
<v Speaker 2>listen and then do like I said before, you have

0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:46.960
<v Speaker 2>two ears, listen more than you're talking. That has helped

0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:51.360
<v Speaker 2>my relationships tremendously in my life because now I'm getting

0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:54.320
<v Speaker 2>to see people and be there for people in ways

0:39:54.320 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 2>that I wasn't before because they were they were this

0:39:57.200 --> 0:39:57.400
<v Speaker 2>or that.

0:39:58.640 --> 0:40:02.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I can you being an expert when it

0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:05.480
<v Speaker 1>comes to providing guidance in these areas for other people.

0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:08.080
<v Speaker 1>And then to have this happen in your own life,

0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:10.799
<v Speaker 1>I can imagine all of the emotions that you must

0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:11.600
<v Speaker 1>have been going through.

0:40:12.160 --> 0:40:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think the thing was the biggest emotion was

0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:18.759
<v Speaker 2>that came through the first thought is that when I

0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:22.200
<v Speaker 2>got Jason, I promised his mom that I would keep

0:40:22.239 --> 0:40:25.120
<v Speaker 2>him safe. That was my biggest promise. I said, I'll

0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:26.680
<v Speaker 2>keep him safe. Don't worry, I'll keep because you know,

0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:28.560
<v Speaker 2>like I said again, like, it was a big decision

0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>for her for her to hand over her son. Yeah,

0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:34.440
<v Speaker 2>and inadvertently I was a stranger. Even though we were

0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:37.319
<v Speaker 2>kids as friends, I mean friends as kids, I was

0:40:37.320 --> 0:40:40.680
<v Speaker 2>a stranger. It was ten years later and it was

0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:42.440
<v Speaker 2>a big decision and so I was like don't worry.

0:40:42.440 --> 0:40:45.360
<v Speaker 2>That's why I stay close. And so that parent guilt

0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:48.600
<v Speaker 2>of like I didn't keep him safe. I didn't. I

0:40:48.640 --> 0:40:51.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't keep him safe. I didn't give him the tools.

0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:53.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't give him something. And I think that rap

0:40:54.239 --> 0:40:57.120
<v Speaker 2>that that that rattled me for a long time, like

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:01.279
<v Speaker 2>I didn't do it. I didn't have make ship runs

0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:03.839
<v Speaker 2>of my family. Like my father was an addict in

0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:06.640
<v Speaker 2>my twenties, I was an addict. I I loved drinking

0:41:06.680 --> 0:41:08.279
<v Speaker 2>and I love cocaine. And when I was in my

0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:10.960
<v Speaker 2>twenties and so and I thought that I had broken

0:41:10.960 --> 0:41:14.200
<v Speaker 2>that cycle because we had such transparent conversations about drugs.

0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:18.320
<v Speaker 2>And what I didn't realize is that I talked to

0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:22.000
<v Speaker 2>him about how bad the drugs were, but I didn't

0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.320
<v Speaker 2>talk to him about how easy they can come into

0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:28.080
<v Speaker 2>your life. And that was a conversation I realized, Like

0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:29.840
<v Speaker 2>the conversation was always like it was so bad, I

0:41:29.880 --> 0:41:32.040
<v Speaker 2>was in a dark space. But I didn't realize I

0:41:32.040 --> 0:41:34.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't tell him that when I started drugs, I wasn't

0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:36.920
<v Speaker 2>in a dark space. I was in a happy space.

0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:41.240
<v Speaker 2>I was with friends. Like the first time I drank

0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:45.040
<v Speaker 2>and did cocaine, I wasn't in a dark space. I

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:47.759
<v Speaker 2>wasn't like depressed. On some corner, I was at a

0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:51.719
<v Speaker 2>nightclub looking really cute and some friend was like, do

0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:53.160
<v Speaker 2>you want to bump girl? And I was like, I've

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:55.359
<v Speaker 2>never done it, but sure, Like I was in a

0:41:55.440 --> 0:41:59.800
<v Speaker 2>happy place, and I didn't explain that to him. Is

0:41:59.840 --> 0:42:04.359
<v Speaker 2>that these vices can come into your life at some

0:42:04.400 --> 0:42:07.400
<v Speaker 2>of your happiest moments because your guard is down and

0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:10.759
<v Speaker 2>because you feel invincible. And then what happens is that

0:42:10.800 --> 0:42:14.719
<v Speaker 2>once you've let it in, now the darkness inside of

0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:17.319
<v Speaker 2>you that you might be keeping out of bay is

0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:19.560
<v Speaker 2>now going to start growing because you're feeding it with

0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:23.160
<v Speaker 2>these vices. And that's what happened to him. It's the

0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:25.840
<v Speaker 2>beginning of the pandemic. He's having fun with his girlfriend

0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 2>and his friends and he's like, we've got this, but

0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:31.640
<v Speaker 2>wasn't processing the emotions that he was feeling. And now

0:42:31.760 --> 0:42:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I've tried a drug because we're we're twenty and we're

0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:38.560
<v Speaker 2>having fun, and now it's turned into another and now

0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:42.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm depressed, and now it's getting darker and darker, and

0:42:42.200 --> 0:42:45.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing more to try to find that first feeling

0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:48.319
<v Speaker 2>that I had on that first day. And one of

0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:51.520
<v Speaker 2>the things that I've now learned is I'm having conversations

0:42:51.520 --> 0:42:54.680
<v Speaker 2>to help people to understand the dangers of drugs. I

0:42:54.800 --> 0:43:00.279
<v Speaker 2>talk more about like that first day, it's probably you're happy. Yeah,

0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:03.400
<v Speaker 2>that's the time that you have to be most aware

0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:05.439
<v Speaker 2>is when you're happy and when right.

0:43:05.360 --> 0:43:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't people don't think that. People what you think

0:43:08.840 --> 0:43:12.640
<v Speaker 1>of someone starts an addiction or drug addiction or drinking addiction,

0:43:12.960 --> 0:43:16.040
<v Speaker 1>that they're in a low place and there don't know

0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:16.640
<v Speaker 1>where to turn.

0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Every story is different, obviously, but mijority of people I

0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:21.960
<v Speaker 2>have talked to or I have helped or I have counseled.

0:43:22.480 --> 0:43:25.799
<v Speaker 2>They are with friends, they are in a club, at

0:43:25.800 --> 0:43:30.879
<v Speaker 2>a party, they are feeling good, they are it was exciting.

0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:34.200
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't some dark alley moment you know, it gets

0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:37.440
<v Speaker 2>can get there for people. It's always something fun and

0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:39.560
<v Speaker 2>like new and like, oh my gosh, are we trying this?

0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Are we going to do this? Are we having a shot?

0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Are we're having this drug? And that's when you have

0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 2>to be more aware. And so what I try to

0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:49.080
<v Speaker 2>tell younger people now especially is like when you're the

0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:52.239
<v Speaker 2>most happiest and those endorphins are running in you, is

0:43:52.239 --> 0:43:55.440
<v Speaker 2>when you have to then be really conscious of like,

0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:57.439
<v Speaker 2>this is the moment I have to say no, because

0:43:57.480 --> 0:44:00.280
<v Speaker 2>there's something that might be darker laying underneath that hapiness

0:44:00.360 --> 0:44:02.680
<v Speaker 2>that you haven't focused on, that those drugs are going

0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:05.200
<v Speaker 2>to trigger. And so this is where you really have

0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:07.880
<v Speaker 2>to be paying attention. And this is where friend groups

0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:09.920
<v Speaker 2>have to say to each other. When we're our happiest

0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 2>is when we really have to protect each other. That

0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:16.359
<v Speaker 2>protecting your happiness statement takes a bigger like takes on

0:44:16.719 --> 0:44:19.360
<v Speaker 2>a new way when you're like in our happiest, we

0:44:19.480 --> 0:44:21.600
<v Speaker 2>really have to protect each other because that's when we're

0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:23.960
<v Speaker 2>most vulnerable to getting the shitty man that comes in

0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:28.000
<v Speaker 2>our life. Most happy is when we're most susceptible to

0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:31.360
<v Speaker 2>that drug coming in that Like, like every shitty relationship

0:44:31.400 --> 0:44:32.840
<v Speaker 2>I've ever had, I was in the happy.

0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Space when it started.

0:44:35.200 --> 0:44:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was like I was like, oh my gosh,

0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:39.600
<v Speaker 2>he is so amazing. I love Like he's so right now,

0:44:40.040 --> 0:44:43.799
<v Speaker 2>it's so exciting we're meeting up. Everyone is that. And

0:44:43.880 --> 0:44:46.799
<v Speaker 2>so like what I'm learning now is that protecting your

0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:50.400
<v Speaker 2>happiness is more of a job than we actually tell people. Like,

0:44:50.520 --> 0:44:52.520
<v Speaker 2>in those moments of happiness is you have to really

0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:55.359
<v Speaker 2>say hold on. I know this is exciting right now,

0:44:56.600 --> 0:44:59.120
<v Speaker 2>but what if and this is not Debbie Downer, but

0:44:59.200 --> 0:45:02.040
<v Speaker 2>what if how are we going to protect your happiness

0:45:02.040 --> 0:45:04.279
<v Speaker 2>and how are you going to still spot the red

0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:07.680
<v Speaker 2>flags the things that are dangerous in the happiness because

0:45:07.719 --> 0:45:10.840
<v Speaker 2>those thedorphins are going to make you not see it right.

0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.280
<v Speaker 2>And that's it. That's my soapbox about happiness. Sorry.

0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:18.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's an interesting perspective and something I think people

0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:22.000
<v Speaker 1>should think about. So it's good that you're bringing awareness

0:45:22.000 --> 0:45:31.160
<v Speaker 1>to that. I just commend how you and your son

0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:35.799
<v Speaker 1>have been so open about this. These struggles in your

0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:38.400
<v Speaker 1>own personal struggles that I heard about in your memoir

0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:43.280
<v Speaker 1>has sobriety you think brought you and your son closer

0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:46.319
<v Speaker 1>or formed a new and different kind of bond that

0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:47.239
<v Speaker 1>you never would have had.

0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think so. Yeah, sure, like we were. I mean,

0:45:51.040 --> 0:45:53.879
<v Speaker 2>our communication has always been open, but now like there's

0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:57.560
<v Speaker 2>nothing left to hide, you know, there's nothing left to hide,

0:45:57.600 --> 0:45:59.879
<v Speaker 2>There's nothing that because now we've made it through the dark,

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:03.120
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing he could do or say that he knows

0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:05.480
<v Speaker 2>that I would ever leave him or abandon him, and

0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:08.400
<v Speaker 2>so part of his fear of not telling me was

0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:10.960
<v Speaker 2>that he thought how I would react, And now he

0:46:11.080 --> 0:46:13.600
<v Speaker 2>knows that I will always react in love. And I

0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:16.920
<v Speaker 2>think that has allowed us to get closer because now

0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:19.560
<v Speaker 2>he's not afraid to tell me if something happens, because

0:46:19.600 --> 0:46:23.480
<v Speaker 2>I think most children don't share because they're afraid that

0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:26.160
<v Speaker 2>they're not going to get a reaction of love. And

0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:29.600
<v Speaker 2>now Wow knows no matter what, when I find out

0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:32.720
<v Speaker 2>you're doing something that I don't approve of, I reacted

0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:34.320
<v Speaker 2>with love. I love you through this. I'm going to

0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:36.680
<v Speaker 2>love you. We're going to support you. It's all love.

0:46:37.840 --> 0:46:41.640
<v Speaker 2>Ever a scolding, never a bad moment.

0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:44.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's so hard as a parent though, in

0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:47.479
<v Speaker 1>the moment when something happens and you see your kid

0:46:48.320 --> 0:46:52.160
<v Speaker 1>making a bad decision, is it's really really hard to

0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.880
<v Speaker 1>take a beat and just remember that you want to

0:46:55.960 --> 0:46:59.640
<v Speaker 1>lead with love and understanding. Yeah, so you don't sever

0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:00.680
<v Speaker 1>that relationship.

0:47:01.520 --> 0:47:03.959
<v Speaker 2>You know what comes in my mind? I always sing

0:47:04.000 --> 0:47:05.799
<v Speaker 2>this in myself all the time. You know that song

0:47:06.320 --> 0:47:10.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm my young soul. I came to this strange We're

0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:12.799
<v Speaker 2>hoping you remember that song from back in the day.

0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:14.080
<v Speaker 1>No, not at all.

0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:19.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying I'm not a good singer. It's okay, but

0:47:19.960 --> 0:47:23.160
<v Speaker 2>it's about like being a new soul coming into this world.

0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:25.799
<v Speaker 1>Can you hear it in your head?

0:47:26.160 --> 0:47:28.719
<v Speaker 2>I have to find this now because I want you

0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:34.840
<v Speaker 2>to hear this. This is the song. The sound familiar

0:47:34.840 --> 0:47:40.239
<v Speaker 2>to all, so I can't do this strange.

0:47:40.680 --> 0:47:46.120
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I completely recognize it.

0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:49.000
<v Speaker 2>So in this song, she just talks about being a

0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:51.840
<v Speaker 2>young soul. And now since I came here, I'd just

0:47:51.880 --> 0:47:55.040
<v Speaker 2>been making every mistake possible, and I just wish that

0:47:55.080 --> 0:47:58.160
<v Speaker 2>everyone could remember that I'm just a young soul. And

0:47:58.320 --> 0:48:01.359
<v Speaker 2>I keep I sing that to myself while I'm always like, well,

0:48:01.440 --> 0:48:05.360
<v Speaker 2>you're young soul this strange world.

0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:08.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you got to remember that because they don't know.

0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:11.880
<v Speaker 2>They don't know, and so that's my little thing. Thanks

0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:13.399
<v Speaker 2>for letting me find that.

0:48:13.560 --> 0:48:17.040
<v Speaker 1>Stupid of course, I wanted you to finish that moment

0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:22.799
<v Speaker 1>for yourself. But I know the song now, so thank you.

0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:32.360
<v Speaker 1>I do love that song. Yeah, you and your son

0:48:32.680 --> 0:48:34.920
<v Speaker 1>co wrote children's books together.

0:48:36.200 --> 0:48:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we have two. One it's called I'm Perfectly Designed,

0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:42.239
<v Speaker 2>which just reminds people that you're perfectly designed, no matter

0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:46.640
<v Speaker 2>how you look, where you're from, you're perfectly designed and

0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:48.799
<v Speaker 2>to embrace and love yourself. And then the second one

0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.400
<v Speaker 2>is I'm okay to feel, which is important to like

0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:54.840
<v Speaker 2>tell young boys that it's okay to feel your feelings.

0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:57.520
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, you know, and so I'm proud of like

0:48:57.719 --> 0:49:00.600
<v Speaker 2>to have written two books with my boy. It's like amazing.

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just embarked on a business with my middle daughter,

0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:10.480
<v Speaker 1>and there's something so rewarding, like you share that time together,

0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:13.920
<v Speaker 1>but you also see them developing these skills and just

0:49:14.000 --> 0:49:14.799
<v Speaker 1>like blossoming.

0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:17.960
<v Speaker 2>It's wild. That's the same feeling. I'm like, this is

0:49:18.080 --> 0:49:21.520
<v Speaker 2>just amazing. Like we also, he and I have just

0:49:21.560 --> 0:49:25.040
<v Speaker 2>been the process. We just sold our first television show

0:49:25.080 --> 0:49:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to a network together. Yeah, I'm so excited. I mean, like,

0:49:29.320 --> 0:49:31.560
<v Speaker 2>you know this there's a process, so you know, not

0:49:31.719 --> 0:49:34.520
<v Speaker 2>easy when it will make it to air, that whole thing,

0:49:34.560 --> 0:49:37.200
<v Speaker 2>you know. So I haven't talked about it, but watching

0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:41.959
<v Speaker 2>him write and become he's turning into this brilliant writer,

0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:44.160
<v Speaker 2>which is like he was already a great writer growing

0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:45.880
<v Speaker 2>up in high school and everything else, but to see

0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:49.160
<v Speaker 2>it like turning into like books and now a show,

0:49:49.200 --> 0:49:53.040
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just like, oh my gosh, you're like, you're

0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:55.360
<v Speaker 2>like brilliant. I read his words and I'm like, I

0:49:55.800 --> 0:49:57.200
<v Speaker 2>was on a call the other day and he was

0:49:57.239 --> 0:50:00.640
<v Speaker 2>sitting on the couch over there and and he heard

0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:04.040
<v Speaker 2>me struggling to find the words to say, and he

0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:06.000
<v Speaker 2>just said it out loud, and I was like, oh

0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:08.480
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, this is our relationship now, Like my son

0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:13.520
<v Speaker 2>is this brilliant wordsmith and now he just knows how

0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:15.839
<v Speaker 2>to give dad the word. And I was like, I'm

0:50:15.880 --> 0:50:16.840
<v Speaker 2>just I couldn't believe it.

0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:20.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm getting like emotional because you didn't know

0:50:20.280 --> 0:50:22.759
<v Speaker 1>you were a dad and now your dad, and you're

0:50:22.800 --> 0:50:25.120
<v Speaker 1>an amazing dad and you strive to be even better

0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:28.719
<v Speaker 1>and you really recognize the glory in it and the

0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:32.760
<v Speaker 1>struggles in it, and you share all of that so openly.

0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:36.239
<v Speaker 1>If that's what it's all about. We learn from you

0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:41.160
<v Speaker 1>because of you. Yep, Yeah, amazing. You talk a lot

0:50:41.200 --> 0:50:44.360
<v Speaker 1>about boundaries, and I know that that's not easy for

0:50:44.400 --> 0:50:48.840
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people setting boundaries and keeping boundaries. What

0:50:49.560 --> 0:50:52.040
<v Speaker 1>would you say, just really quickly, what are some good

0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:56.120
<v Speaker 1>steps to creating boundaries in your life? Like what do

0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:58.920
<v Speaker 1>you need to tell yourself in order to make those boundaries?

0:51:00.120 --> 0:51:02.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, First of all, most people are unclear on what

0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:04.680
<v Speaker 2>they want in their life. So before you start setting

0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:08.800
<v Speaker 2>boundaries that you're not going to actually keep or enforce,

0:51:09.160 --> 0:51:11.120
<v Speaker 2>you need to write down what it is you want

0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:13.440
<v Speaker 2>out of life and what do you deserve, What do

0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:15.360
<v Speaker 2>you want and what do you deserve? And this is

0:51:15.360 --> 0:51:17.200
<v Speaker 2>a practice I've been doing forever, and I try to

0:51:17.239 --> 0:51:22.120
<v Speaker 2>tell people consistently, like, don't have it up here rattling around.

0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Write it down where you can see it and reread it,

0:51:25.000 --> 0:51:29.160
<v Speaker 2>because it's important for you to understand. The reason this

0:51:29.280 --> 0:51:31.880
<v Speaker 2>boundary is important is because I want this for my

0:51:31.960 --> 0:51:35.120
<v Speaker 2>life and I deserve this for my life. And when

0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:37.759
<v Speaker 2>you have those in front of you and you are

0:51:37.800 --> 0:51:42.120
<v Speaker 2>aware of them, it's harder for somebody to break that boundary,

0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:45.600
<v Speaker 2>overstep that boundary because you're not going to allow them.

0:51:45.920 --> 0:51:49.080
<v Speaker 2>When I know that I deserve a paycheck at the

0:51:49.120 --> 0:51:52.240
<v Speaker 2>end of two weeks because I've done this amount of work,

0:51:53.080 --> 0:51:54.799
<v Speaker 2>your boss comes to you and says, oh, I can't

0:51:54.840 --> 0:51:58.080
<v Speaker 2>pay for another week, you don't just say okay. You

0:51:58.120 --> 0:52:01.439
<v Speaker 2>say no, no, no, no, no, I worked, I did this.

0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I want my money. And it's because you're clear that

0:52:05.280 --> 0:52:10.640
<v Speaker 2>working hard, doing your skills, you deserve this money. And

0:52:10.680 --> 0:52:14.440
<v Speaker 2>the same thing goes for like your emotional state, your

0:52:14.520 --> 0:52:17.240
<v Speaker 2>mental state. When you know what you want and you deserve,

0:52:17.680 --> 0:52:20.360
<v Speaker 2>no one cannot give you your money, or give you

0:52:20.400 --> 0:52:22.799
<v Speaker 2>the respect, or give you the love, or give you

0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:25.359
<v Speaker 2>what you deserve because you're aware of it. And so

0:52:25.400 --> 0:52:27.080
<v Speaker 2>that's the first part. As I say, I think a

0:52:27.120 --> 0:52:29.080
<v Speaker 2>lot of people don't take that time to really be clear.

0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:32.200
<v Speaker 1>That's amazing, that's an amazing message for our listeners.

0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:34.840
<v Speaker 2>And then the second thing I would say, once you're clear,

0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:37.680
<v Speaker 2>I would say, before you can start setting boundaries, I

0:52:37.719 --> 0:52:40.400
<v Speaker 2>tell people, get your boundary bodies. And this is important

0:52:40.400 --> 0:52:43.279
<v Speaker 2>things because if you never set boundaries before, it's very

0:52:43.400 --> 0:52:47.040
<v Speaker 2>easy for narcissists manipulators in your life to learn how

0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:50.719
<v Speaker 2>to go around your boundaries. And so when I say

0:52:50.760 --> 0:52:53.960
<v Speaker 2>get your boundary bodies, it's those people who understand equally

0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:56.640
<v Speaker 2>what you want and what you deserve, who when if

0:52:56.680 --> 0:52:58.680
<v Speaker 2>you have a moment where you feel weak, or you

0:52:58.719 --> 0:53:02.399
<v Speaker 2>feel or you get sucked back into whatever pattern, these

0:53:02.440 --> 0:53:04.439
<v Speaker 2>people are there to remind you of what you want

0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:07.080
<v Speaker 2>and deserve because they've read that sheet too. And I

0:53:07.120 --> 0:53:10.960
<v Speaker 2>think when you have those two things compounded, it's easy

0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:12.960
<v Speaker 2>for you to set boundaries with the people in your

0:53:13.000 --> 0:53:17.680
<v Speaker 2>life and it allows you to stick with it. And

0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:21.279
<v Speaker 2>boundaries who can save your life and chance?

0:53:21.320 --> 0:53:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they can. So write down what you want and

0:53:24.360 --> 0:53:25.120
<v Speaker 1>what you deserve.

0:53:25.560 --> 0:53:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:53:26.520 --> 0:53:29.439
<v Speaker 1>I did a similar thing with in my therapy, which

0:53:29.520 --> 0:53:31.520
<v Speaker 1>was I wrote down my non negotiables.

0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Yep.

0:53:32.239 --> 0:53:33.120
<v Speaker 1>It's very similar.

0:53:33.200 --> 0:53:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, and then get to.

0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Define it yep. Get your boundary buddies, bbeses. I don't

0:53:41.200 --> 0:53:43.400
<v Speaker 1>want to not talk about your talk show. I know

0:53:43.440 --> 0:53:46.200
<v Speaker 1>we're running over a little bit, but let's just briefly

0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:53.400
<v Speaker 1>talk about this new season of Coromo, premiering September sixteenth, right, Yes, yeah,

0:53:53.560 --> 0:53:54.800
<v Speaker 1>is this season two or three?

0:53:55.000 --> 0:53:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Season three?

0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:56.439
<v Speaker 1>Three?

0:53:56.719 --> 0:54:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes? Wow, it's been exciting. I shoot, so the syndication

0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:03.839
<v Speaker 2>game is I shoot six to eight episodes a day,

0:54:04.000 --> 0:54:08.520
<v Speaker 2>so it's it's it's a grind. My ship is different

0:54:08.600 --> 0:54:12.560
<v Speaker 2>because I don't have celebrities on, so I help everyday people.

0:54:12.880 --> 0:54:16.000
<v Speaker 2>And the thing about the genre that I'm in is

0:54:16.000 --> 0:54:18.399
<v Speaker 2>that it's unfortunately, over the past couple of years, has

0:54:18.400 --> 0:54:21.120
<v Speaker 2>got a bit of a bad rap because people have

0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:25.960
<v Speaker 2>been screaming, running off, acting crazy. And one of the

0:54:26.000 --> 0:54:29.360
<v Speaker 2>things that I'm most proud of is that, like I

0:54:29.400 --> 0:54:32.160
<v Speaker 2>give out therapy on my show, like anybody who comes

0:54:32.160 --> 0:54:35.279
<v Speaker 2>and opens themselves up. I pay for therapy. I you know,

0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:38.040
<v Speaker 2>make the network pay for therapy, which they've never done.

0:54:38.239 --> 0:54:40.239
<v Speaker 2>You know. I always make sure that we bring it

0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:43.919
<v Speaker 2>back down to real conversations, real emotions. We're getting through it,

0:54:44.560 --> 0:54:48.680
<v Speaker 2>like there's real healing, and it's it's, it's it's. It's

0:54:48.800 --> 0:54:52.760
<v Speaker 2>been a journey of like rebranding this job and helping

0:54:52.760 --> 0:54:56.040
<v Speaker 2>people to see like I'm not here for the solution.

0:54:56.719 --> 0:54:59.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm here to tell you that you can be in

0:54:59.360 --> 0:55:01.640
<v Speaker 2>a better relationship with your mother, your father, your sister,

0:55:01.719 --> 0:55:04.280
<v Speaker 2>your brother, or your boyfriend and your husband and your wife.

0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:09.120
<v Speaker 2>And it's been great because the audience is receiving it,

0:55:09.320 --> 0:55:15.520
<v Speaker 2>which I'm just wanted. They're like please, yes, So it's

0:55:15.560 --> 0:55:18.799
<v Speaker 2>been a great thing. So yeah, we're going to season three,

0:55:18.960 --> 0:55:22.040
<v Speaker 2>and I just know that, like this is a long game.

0:55:22.560 --> 0:55:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Like you know, I think about like I think about

0:55:24.560 --> 0:55:26.240
<v Speaker 2>some of the people I look up to, like Oprah.

0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Her first seven seasons was not what we know about

0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Oprah right now. Right people look back at early season Oprah,

0:55:32.800 --> 0:55:35.799
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, that's that's not the show that we

0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:39.880
<v Speaker 2>ended up loving in the end. You know, you know,

0:55:40.000 --> 0:55:42.879
<v Speaker 2>like there was moments where Oprah used to wheel out

0:55:42.920 --> 0:55:47.840
<v Speaker 2>wagons of fat and have you know baby Mama's fighting

0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:51.000
<v Speaker 2>on her show. And then you know, gradually she allowed

0:55:51.120 --> 0:55:54.480
<v Speaker 2>people to see her heart. And so I'm just excited

0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:56.920
<v Speaker 2>for the continued growth and for people to continue seeing

0:55:56.960 --> 0:56:00.480
<v Speaker 2>me infuse me and what my whole life is about,

0:56:00.600 --> 0:56:02.200
<v Speaker 2>which is helping people into this show.

0:56:02.760 --> 0:56:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a perfect place for you. I'm very excited

0:56:06.560 --> 0:56:08.439
<v Speaker 1>for you. You've shared your life, You've shared your ups

0:56:08.520 --> 0:56:12.000
<v Speaker 1>or downs, the lessons that you've learned and challenges that

0:56:12.080 --> 0:56:14.560
<v Speaker 1>you've faced, and you use that.

0:56:14.480 --> 0:56:19.040
<v Speaker 2>To reach people trying that's the goal.

0:56:18.960 --> 0:56:21.000
<v Speaker 1>And help them through those big life moments.

0:56:21.360 --> 0:56:22.959
<v Speaker 2>That's the goal. That is the goal.

0:56:23.080 --> 0:56:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Sister, Share, Share, Share What a gift you are?

0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Your gift?

0:56:29.480 --> 0:56:32.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, two last questions. When it all ends, what do

0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:36.320
<v Speaker 1>you hope the world remembers about Coromo.

0:56:36.640 --> 0:56:40.120
<v Speaker 2>That I hope that they just know that my only

0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:42.680
<v Speaker 2>job on hair is to help people feel seen. That's

0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:44.600
<v Speaker 2>all I want. That's the only thing. Like if I

0:56:44.640 --> 0:56:46.839
<v Speaker 2>die tomorrow, I feel pretty good that people know that,

0:56:47.000 --> 0:56:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Like I've been on this world to help you feel seen,

0:56:49.480 --> 0:56:51.000
<v Speaker 2>because I don't believe this life is for me. I

0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:52.880
<v Speaker 2>believe that all these experiences I've been through is for

0:56:52.920 --> 0:56:55.080
<v Speaker 2>me to help other people, because my life is an

0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:57.360
<v Speaker 2>up and down road culture that I'm like, I'm like,

0:56:57.640 --> 0:57:00.480
<v Speaker 2>God gave me this to help other people to be

0:57:00.520 --> 0:57:03.000
<v Speaker 2>for a reason. There's there's no reason that the gay

0:57:03.040 --> 0:57:05.880
<v Speaker 2>guy became a dad this way unless it was to help.

0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:08.640
<v Speaker 1>People and ended up on the platforms that you're.

0:57:08.880 --> 0:57:11.879
<v Speaker 2>That you're able to reach this for someone else.

0:57:11.920 --> 0:57:14.680
<v Speaker 1>It was all meant to be. Yeah, But before I

0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:17.520
<v Speaker 1>let you go, Caromo, what was your last I choose

0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:18.040
<v Speaker 1>me moment?

0:57:18.720 --> 0:57:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Ooh. I had a really important relationship in my life

0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:26.720
<v Speaker 2>and because that person could not be a partner to

0:57:26.760 --> 0:57:28.760
<v Speaker 2>me in a way that I needed them to be

0:57:28.880 --> 0:57:32.600
<v Speaker 2>a partner. And I chose me because I decided that

0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:36.640
<v Speaker 2>what I want and hope for in this in relationships,

0:57:36.680 --> 0:57:40.640
<v Speaker 2>going forward, business, personal, is for someone to be able

0:57:40.680 --> 0:57:43.400
<v Speaker 2>to show up equally. And so I said, if it's

0:57:43.440 --> 0:57:47.560
<v Speaker 2>not equal, I'm not doing it, And so I chose me,

0:57:47.840 --> 0:57:48.720
<v Speaker 2>which was beautiful.

0:57:49.600 --> 0:57:52.400
<v Speaker 1>It is so beautiful. You are beautiful. Thank you for

0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:54.600
<v Speaker 1>I love you.

0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Love.

0:57:56.680 --> 0:57:58.320
<v Speaker 1>I'll see you around, yes, you will.

0:57:58.360 --> 0:57:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for everything.

0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. Wow. Okay, Caromo is so incredible. I just

0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:09.920
<v Speaker 1>I love him. I just walked away from that conversation

0:58:10.000 --> 0:58:15.280
<v Speaker 1>feeling so empowered to revisit some boundaries in my life

0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:21.560
<v Speaker 1>and to just live an organic, authentic, open life like him.

0:58:21.960 --> 0:58:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Thank you Karamo for coming on. You are so amazing.

0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:27.400
<v Speaker 1>I cannot wait for the new season of his talk

0:58:27.480 --> 0:58:31.480
<v Speaker 1>show and the new season of Queer Eye. Such great

0:58:31.480 --> 0:58:35.360
<v Speaker 1>work he's doing. As we continue to choose ourselves. Each week,

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<v Speaker 1>I want you to think about boundaries. We talk a

0:58:40.600 --> 0:58:43.480
<v Speaker 1>lot about that in this conversation, and I want you

0:58:43.560 --> 0:58:48.040
<v Speaker 1>to really ask yourself. Are you having healthy boundaries with

0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:50.600
<v Speaker 1>the people in your life? Are you having to set

0:58:50.640 --> 0:58:53.440
<v Speaker 1>boundaries when it comes to your work life? After you

0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:55.920
<v Speaker 1>think on that, if you feel unbalanced, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>challenge you and empower you to start following some of

0:58:59.160 --> 0:59:03.280
<v Speaker 1>those instructions that Karamo gave us today. What do you want?

0:59:03.680 --> 0:59:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Be clear? What do you deserve? Setting boundaries helps make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that your needs are met and that you can

0:59:11.680 --> 0:59:13.840
<v Speaker 1>show up the way you want to show up. Without

0:59:13.880 --> 0:59:15.680
<v Speaker 1>them in place, it can be very hard to be

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<v Speaker 1>the best version of ourselves, and I know it might

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<v Speaker 1>not be easy, but this week I want you to

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<v Speaker 1>try and define and set one boundary with that intention.

0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to I Choose Me. You can check

0:59:31.800 --> 0:59:34.920
<v Speaker 1>out all our social links. In our show notes, you

0:59:34.920 --> 0:59:37.960
<v Speaker 1>can learn all about Karamo. You can rate us, review us,

0:59:38.200 --> 0:59:40.280
<v Speaker 1>and be sure to use the hashtag I Choose Me.

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<v Speaker 1>I will be right here next week. I hope you

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<v Speaker 1>will choose to be here too,