Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: I were at the nail salon yesterday getting a.
Speaker 3: Friend of the show, by the way, friend of the show,
Speaker 3: friend of the pod.
Speaker 2: We're getting our nails done, and in walks a guy
Speaker 2: with like a timbaland hat, like a green uh uh,
Speaker 2: you know, like jacket on, just looking real butch right,
Speaker 2: and he walks in and he says, hey, I need
Speaker 2: a full set, and the whole room I'm not joking.
Speaker 1: Was he gay? We think so. We think he was a.
Speaker 3: Queen who was off duty, because you know, it's what also,
Speaker 3: you know, it's also a possibility what guitar players.
Speaker 1: Guitar players.
Speaker 3: I have a friend who plays. He does a lot
Speaker 3: of finger picking, and he gets like just very like
Speaker 3: basic like yeah, yeah, acrylics done on like one hand.
Speaker 1: That is diva. That is kind yeah it is. It
Speaker 1: is very male diva.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah god yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, the whole room like and I mean obviously
Speaker 2: there weren't that many people there, but.
Speaker 1: The whole room started screaming, fagging. Yeah. The two trains
Speaker 1: in the room like, oh faggot. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was very fun and very interesting. Good
Speaker 2: day at the nail salon yesterday. I love you know
Speaker 2: what I used to do my nails at home, and
Speaker 2: I have been for the past many years.
Speaker 1: I have been I do.
Speaker 2: My nails at home kind of girl because I know
Speaker 2: how to do them, and I just don't like spending
Speaker 2: the money on getting them done. But after yesterday, I
Speaker 2: found a good nail salon that I really like. I
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna make this my new, my new little,
Speaker 2: my new little treat myself.
Speaker 3: You know, I would go, I've told I've said this
Speaker 3: like a billion times, but I can't get my nails
Speaker 3: done because I play guitar and I can't like hold down,
Speaker 3: oh the fret the strings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I could get.
Speaker 3: Them done on one hands, but I want to get
Speaker 3: them done on both hands.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I just I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just resigned myself to not ever doing my nails,
Speaker 3: even though I like having them done. You can have
Speaker 3: a polish at least just a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I like paint them myself. I'm very bad at I
Speaker 3: have really shaky hands.
Speaker 2: You know, and I have a really shaky foot. I've
Speaker 2: discovered these past two times that I've gotten interesting one
Speaker 2: to the nail salon.
Speaker 1: Oh. I love getting my feets he's done.
Speaker 2: Oh, I do too, but for some reason, so last
Speaker 2: time I got a French tip, this time I couldn't
Speaker 2: get a French tip because last time my foot would
Speaker 2: not stop shaking.
Speaker 1: Bitch. It was crazy.
Speaker 3: The nail person was like can you but yeah, can
Speaker 3: you stop kicking me in the face. I apparently have
Speaker 3: like restless leg syndrome or something. Do you think that
Speaker 3: there's like any like foot fat guys that like try
Speaker 3: to get like jobs as like uh like nail texs.
Speaker 3: Like I think there's just like a white guy from
Speaker 3: Ohio who walks into like a Vietnamese nail salon and is.
Speaker 1: Like, here's my application.
Speaker 3: I would say, I've worked in it and marketing for years,
Speaker 3: but I just I just need to pick up some
Speaker 3: extra cash.
Speaker 2: I want to say yes, but the reality is I
Speaker 2: feel like from having worked because I used to work
Speaker 2: in spas and massage places and I used to massage
Speaker 2: feet on a daily basis, I will say that any
Speaker 2: of that just becomes so desensitizing, like you're doing it
Speaker 2: so much, you're seeing it so much, it's like it's
Speaker 2: like it's just another part of a person's body.
Speaker 1: But that's because you don't have a foot set right.
Speaker 3: If you had a foot fetish then every day would
Speaker 3: be like opening like Christmas morning as a kid, you know,
Speaker 3: it'd be like opening up the Nintendo sixty four.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 3: You know, I bet I worked with some people that
Speaker 3: were really freaky for some feet probably you know what
Speaker 3: else I thought about a little unrelated, but I've been
Speaker 3: thinking about how, uh you think that the person that
Speaker 3: made up that like, uh, like you think a long
Speaker 3: time ago, someone got like stung by a sea urchin
Speaker 3: and there was a guy that was on the beach
Speaker 3: who was like, I didn't have to pee on it.
Speaker 3: Everyone's like, everyone's like what, and he's like, I'm a doctor,
Speaker 3: trust me, I have to pee on it. And now
Speaker 3: I think that that's not true. And I feel like
Speaker 3: that was just something made up by like a super freak.
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely it was. You know how.
Speaker 3: Many things in this world do you think we're just
Speaker 3: like made up by like super freaks, Yeah, freaks with fetishists.
Speaker 1: I was stung by a wasp a couple of ago
Speaker 1: and the guy one of the guy beat on it. Well, no,
Speaker 1: he spit on it.
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 3: And I was like what, you know, I was very
Speaker 3: like confused by that. You have to swallow my spit
Speaker 3: because we have to spit in each other's mouths. Look,
Speaker 3: you have to look up and say I'm a good
Speaker 3: girl and swallow my spit. And that's the only thing
Speaker 3: that will stop the poison from reaching your brain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it worked, you know. Yeah, I'm better for it.
Speaker 2: I'm better for it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you live.
Speaker 3: So maybe there was maybe there is some some science
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Jane, I know this week you're dying from allergies.
Speaker 3: But I'm getting owned every single day. Maybe I need
Speaker 3: to get pissed on. Maybe the trees in your in
Speaker 3: your sinuses right now, the trees are busting all over me.
Speaker 3: Maybe I need more bust to counteractive, you know, like,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe I.
Speaker 1: Should go to some freak doctor who's.
Speaker 3: Gonna Oh I showed you that video right, which one,
Speaker 3: the one where the doctor was jerking of someone getting
Speaker 3: combed on? Oh yeah, yeah that's what you knew. Yah,
Speaker 3: he off, he has joking her ship. He was like
Speaker 3: his thumb like really really hard over her. Yeah you
Speaker 3: could hear it, like, yeah, yeah, it was cool. Well,
Speaker 3: the thing is, Carmen, that actually wouldn't work for me
Speaker 3: because I have a deviated septum, and my ship is
Speaker 3: really fucked up. I went to it's funny you've you've
Speaker 3: been having trouble getting your like gender confirmation surgeries. I'm
Speaker 3: just having trouble like getting like my nasal passages to
Speaker 3: where I can breathe a gun And yeah, I went
Speaker 3: to an e N t uh like like two weeks ago. Well,
Speaker 3: the thing is, they made me do like this really
Speaker 3: fucking long like triage. And I told him, like from
Speaker 3: the beginning, I was like I saw an e NT
Speaker 3: like a year ago. They prescribed me some stuff. It's
Speaker 3: not gonna work. Like there's there's no going back from this.
Speaker 3: It's like it's it's open. It's like a goat. It's
Speaker 3: like goatsy nose, like it's it's gaped. It is she's gaping, shorty.
Speaker 3: Shorty is a gape. And yeah, and like the very
Speaker 3: last thing they did, after asking me like just a
Speaker 3: fucking like insane like rubric of questions, was like, all right,
Speaker 3: and now I'm gonna take a look at your nose
Speaker 3: and told back a little bit. And I heard the
Speaker 3: doctor say, like, damn, you weren't kidding. I was like,
Speaker 3: why would I have been kidding. Do you get like
Speaker 3: some freaks who come in here. It was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: people who just want a free fucking nose job. I
Speaker 3: need you to look inside my nose, I learned and
Speaker 3: use you to get all the way inside.
Speaker 2: My doctor asked me when I had my consultation. He
Speaker 2: was like, and do you have any problems breathing? And
Speaker 2: I said, sure, I don't know. Whatever you gotta do
Speaker 2: to get that shit covered by insurance?
Speaker 1: He laugh.
Speaker 3: You know what, it's crazy because I asked the doctor too.
Speaker 3: I was like, they're like, we're not going to change
Speaker 3: the shape of your nose at all. I was like,
Speaker 3: oh really, and he was like yeah, no, it's all
Speaker 3: like inside. I was like, wait, but can you and
Speaker 3: he was like no, that's like something else.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, I guess it is. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3: But like I have heard of other people saying that
Speaker 3: when they got their deviated septem fixed, they got kind
Speaker 3: of a little too for one deal.
Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping they.
Speaker 2: Probably went to a plastic surgeon because what they're going
Speaker 2: to do is well, I don't want to get all
Speaker 2: technical with you.
Speaker 3: But they'll do like an ope they're going to open
Speaker 3: up your nose. They're going to get the hood, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean? Oh, I know, but it is
Speaker 3: from what I know that the surgery is all kind
Speaker 3: of like done, like they don't they're not like split
Speaker 3: in my shit open Okay, yeah, yeah, it's closed.
Speaker 1: They do it. They do it all. I don't know
Speaker 1: they send.
Speaker 3: I'm getting an open I'm getting an open R.
Speaker 1: I assume it's.
Speaker 3: Kind of a magic school bus situation, yeah, where they
Speaker 3: send a tiny school bus of doctors into my nose
Speaker 3: to to fix it and then they pull them out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how all modern medicine is going these days.
Speaker 2: That's why it's so hard to get it covered by
Speaker 2: insurance because you have to have like the whole team
Speaker 2: of doctors get on the bus at the same time.
Speaker 2: The yeah, and then they have to get in line
Speaker 2: for like the shrinking ray and it's shrinking right.
Speaker 1: It's there's like always delays.
Speaker 3: You know, there's only a handful of magic school bus
Speaker 3: doctors in America's.
Speaker 1: Very nationalized practice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why there's so many good surgeons and Thailand,
Speaker 3: because the average height in Thailand is only like like
Speaker 3: two point three centimeters, so they can they can shrink.
Speaker 3: It's very easy to shrink a doctor microscopic country.
Speaker 1: Thailand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's a Taiwanese person listening. Like the five
Speaker 3: foot one countries, a Taiwanese person is from top Oh. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I meant that. I said that. I said that. I said, Thailand,
Speaker 3: d's time, They're time. I said that. That's what I said.
Speaker 3: That's what I said. Okay, I know, I know, I haven't.
Speaker 3: I don't have the doctors inside fixing me. You see
Speaker 3: what I'm wearing right now? Do you think I know?
Speaker 2: I said, it's a classic Janey fit today. The first
Speaker 2: thing I said when I saw he was like, this
Speaker 2: is a if you look up Jenny Danger in the dictionary,
Speaker 2: this is this is the.
Speaker 1: Photo I'm wearing my Democrat trucker outfits. Yes, Trucker Janey.
Speaker 3: Can we get a little sample of truck or Janey?
Speaker 1: What's that? I don't know.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 3: We'll come back to that. I would play her Trucker Janey.
Speaker 3: It would play her Lisa Kudro.
Speaker 1: Fuck.
Speaker 3: Yes, I gotta ask you that question more often. Instantly,
Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you that question more often. Okay,
Speaker 3: that's what. Honestly, like, that's the person that people say
Speaker 3: I look like the most I see that. Well, they
Speaker 3: say Phoebe specifically friends. Yeah, yes, yeah, they don't say
Speaker 3: Romy or Michelle.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm never I don't know what it
Speaker 1: is either. I think I don't know.
Speaker 3: I forgot the fun kind of name is romy It's not,
Speaker 3: you know, it's just I. I was driving on eighty
Speaker 3: five the other day and there's some big like post
Speaker 3: I don't know. There's this big advertisement for I believe
Speaker 3: it's like a BT show called Diara in Detroit, and
Speaker 3: I was thinking, like Diara.
Speaker 1: That's like Daria.
Speaker 3: Well, it's kind of if I wasn't wearing my glasses,
Speaker 3: it kind of looks like diarrhea.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's unfortunate.
Speaker 3: Like if you just threw an h somewhere in there
Speaker 3: like that, would that would be really confusing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, diarrhea in Detroit.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been thinking a lot lately about how
Speaker 2: famous people have some of the weirdest fucking names you've
Speaker 2: ever heard of, like Stockard Channing, Stockard a fucking name.
Speaker 1: Where is that Stockard? I don't know, but that's a
Speaker 1: I like that name I.
Speaker 3: Actually Kuba Cuba Gooding Juba Gooding Jr.
Speaker 1: Did you say this? I like that name too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just like these aren't names, do you know what?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: What pisses me off more than that is the fucking
Speaker 3: uh the how celebrity Like I never in my life
Speaker 3: have I met someone with like three names. Like I've
Speaker 3: never met like a Joseph Gordon Levitt. That's a cerial lie,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying? Only serial killers have three names,
Speaker 3: or like it's weird that like celebrities get to have
Speaker 3: like like Phillips, Seymour Hoffman, where they get to have
Speaker 3: a name, which is my favorite share Madonna.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do. I do like that, Sinda.
Speaker 3: I think it's great when you just have you claim
Speaker 3: the entire name, you know.
Speaker 1: I think Timothy Shallome is all is all one word too.
Speaker 3: I heard it was actually pronounced tim Timothy.
Speaker 1: That limit. Wonka Wonka gets to have one name too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know it's Willy. I like to.
Speaker 3: Imagine justin Timberlake and the Social Network coming in and
Speaker 3: being like drop the Willy, just just Wonka.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't seen the Social Network or Wonka but
Speaker 3: well the social networks good.
Speaker 1: I need to watch it.
Speaker 3: Speaking of one word titles, Uh, what if what if
Speaker 3: I came to you and said, I'm I'm the Joker?
Speaker 1: Baby? If I said something like that to you, how
Speaker 1: you would I.
Speaker 2: Would signal the Batman and and call for help.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 3: This is this is another showdown of Joker versus Batman.
Speaker 3: It's like Madonna versus Anddeia. Yeah, you know they have
Speaker 3: a famous rivalry.
Speaker 1: Though share versus Sophie. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you were the Joker, I would call
Speaker 2: Arkham and I would say, hey, uh, your joker is
Speaker 2: I'd be I.
Speaker 1: Have your joker. I have your joker.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you look at my little collar, like if if
Speaker 3: missing return to Kham?
Speaker 1: Yeah that place.
Speaker 2: Well, should we talk about our guest and who we're
Speaker 2: bringing on the show today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very excited to be joined this week by
Speaker 3: a real life film director, not just a person with
Speaker 3: a letterbox account, not just a pretty face. We do
Speaker 3: not just love all of our letterboxed users. I'm one
Speaker 3: of them, of course, but I'm just saying this is
Speaker 3: someone that is beyond, beyond the peanut.
Speaker 1: Gallery of the rubes like us.
Speaker 3: This is someone that's actually on the field on on
Speaker 3: the Red Karpatre and producing wonderful films such as The
Speaker 3: People's Joker. And today we have the director of the
Speaker 3: People's Joker, Vera Drew, on the show, and we're very
Speaker 3: excited to have her. Do you got anything else to
Speaker 3: tee us off about Vera Drew?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I loved this interview. I thought she was a great guest,
Speaker 2: and I'm really fucking excited about her movie and I'm
Speaker 2: so glad that she won her battle against the gaylords
Speaker 2: over at DC and what.
Speaker 3: She did, she did, she beat the haters and the
Speaker 3: movie is out for you to find, and I believe
Speaker 3: that she'lla I think I think we'll talk a little
Speaker 3: bit more about that.
Speaker 1: In our interview with Vera Drew.
Speaker 3: So period, I suppose, without further ado, here's our interview
Speaker 3: with Vera Drew.
Speaker 2: Today on the pod, We've got Vera Drew. Vera is
Speaker 2: a film director and she is the director of the
Speaker 2: upcoming film The People's Joker, which we are very excited about,
Speaker 2: and so we're going to talk to her today about
Speaker 2: the trials and tribulations of being a filmmaker about something
Speaker 2: that is potentially copyrighted content that was in the copyright
Speaker 2: hell apparently. But yeah, we're really excited to talk to you.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess to start.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you are the director of the brand new twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two film The People's Joker, and this was a
Speaker 3: movie that I was very excited about at the time.
Speaker 3: You were someone that, like I thoughtollowed on Twitter, like
Speaker 3: when I like first made my account.
Speaker 1: So we've been aware of you for Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were one of the first kind of like highbies,
Speaker 3: so like follow me back when I was when I
Speaker 3: was a based another one of your shooters, Jane.
Speaker 1: Everyone I get on the show is a shooter of mine.
Speaker 4: Yes, what's that. I've never been called that before.
Speaker 1: A shooter. A shooter.
Speaker 3: It's like someone someone that you ride for, someone that's
Speaker 3: like one of your shooters. Like if if Janie's getting
Speaker 3: into some stupid shit on Twitter, which is you know,
Speaker 3: could happen, Yeah, you're there for her.
Speaker 2: It does all the time, there for her. You're there
Speaker 2: to help make sure her ratio stays good all that.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I hope I could be that for you.
Speaker 7: I certainly feel like you're one of those for me.
Speaker 7: I've never heard that. I described that weight.
Speaker 3: But just for the listeners that might not know, tell
Speaker 3: us about your movie, and uh, maybe tell us about
Speaker 3: some of why it's been held.
Speaker 1: Up for a while, if you want to get into that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, for sure. I so basically I think it was
Speaker 7: like May of twenty twenty. Like I used to have
Speaker 7: a web series called Hot Topics with Beera Drew that was.
Speaker 1: Oh I with your friend. I remember that. Actually, yeah, it.
Speaker 7: Was basically just a feeble attempt to get No, it
Speaker 7: was spelled like the store.
Speaker 4: Okay, oh my god, my cat's just started fighting.
Speaker 7: So this is this is the most chaotic podcast appearance
Speaker 7: I've ever done. Sorry, apparently, No, it's it's entirely me.
Speaker 7: It's the energy I'm bringing to it today. Yeah, let
Speaker 7: me start over. I mean, you could use all of that.
Speaker 7: I don't really give a shit. I'm also going to
Speaker 7: just turn down this heater that's going.
Speaker 3: Okay, it sounds like you're like putting something in the microwave.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I like it, or like I'm in like some
Speaker 7: sort of like a joker cave of some sort.
Speaker 4: Very I kind of am.
Speaker 7: But yeah, to answer your question, it's I made a
Speaker 7: trans joker movie. It's like a Joker parody of try
Speaker 7: Todd Phillips Joker. You know, Warner Brothers didn't particularly like
Speaker 7: that I did that, but I announced that I was
Speaker 7: doing it.
Speaker 4: In like.
Speaker 1: They can eat. Yeah, that's what their deal was.
Speaker 4: But yeah, So I premiered at it Tiff last year.
Speaker 3: I haven't been able to see the film yet, but
Speaker 3: it looks very cool. It's actually playing at the Applaza
Speaker 3: Theater near here in like a few weeks, so I
Speaker 3: am excited to go see it. To make a beauty
Speaker 3: translated outing yeah we should, we should, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 3: I guess I'll start here because I was reading this
Speaker 3: mor I forgot the uh the article, I forgot the
Speaker 3: website that posted it. But they described your film as
Speaker 3: a highly personal, incredibly irreverent, stylized memoir movie.
Speaker 1: And I think that's an interesting.
Speaker 3: Way to describe a movie about the Joker. So can
Speaker 3: you tell us what made you, like, I guess, what
Speaker 3: made you relate to the character of the Joker to
Speaker 3: put Well, first of all, is that even true? Like
Speaker 3: is that an accurate thing? That this is like a
Speaker 3: bit of a personal film for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's like really the best description of it.
Speaker 7: I think that's why it's like so like weird for
Speaker 7: me to like talk about sometimes and get into it
Speaker 7: because like it really was just like it was like
Speaker 7: the most expensive like therapy I've ever done. Really, yeah,
Speaker 7: I just like I don't know, like I really was
Speaker 7: kind of inspired by Todd Phillips Joker like when I
Speaker 7: saw it. Not not necessarily to make this movie, but
Speaker 7: like when I first saw it, it was like just
Speaker 7: such a weird experience because like I remember people talking
Speaker 7: about how like they were going to be like fucking
Speaker 7: bombs going.
Speaker 3: On like shootings at every theater that yeah, I remember
Speaker 3: that too.
Speaker 4: And then like I don't know, it was just like
Speaker 4: the movie was just like I don't know, it.
Speaker 1: Was like a like a drama about mental health. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so not.
Speaker 7: Like I don't know, like and like I mean, there's
Speaker 7: not like like it's a simple story. So I feel
Speaker 7: like as far like politically, you could like project a
Speaker 7: lot onto it just because like it's kind of just
Speaker 7: universally tackling, like yeah, it sucks to be like a
Speaker 7: mentally ill American and like a dying dystopian hellscape. But
Speaker 7: I really really, you know, I not only like as
Speaker 7: like a lifelong comic book fan like just watching that,
Speaker 7: it was just like I can't fucking believe this is
Speaker 7: the movie that the director of Old School made, right,
Speaker 7: and that like Warner Brothers would even like put a
Speaker 7: movie out like that, uh, and and that it would
Speaker 7: like make like like kind of just be this like
Speaker 7: big cultural zeitgeist thing. Like I just kind of thought
Speaker 7: it was cool to see something mainstream sort of like.
Speaker 4: Talk about that stuff.
Speaker 7: And so, I mean, but yeah, the original idea for
Speaker 7: this just really came from like doing a ton of
Speaker 7: writing about myself and I was writing like a like
Speaker 7: kind of fucking psycho trans body horror script that was
Speaker 7: like about a drag queen that was physically addicted to irony,
Speaker 7: and like it was really yeah, no, I mean it's it's.
Speaker 1: All a lot of people.
Speaker 7: I mean, it was uh yeah, and like definitely way
Speaker 7: different then what the People's Joker ended up becoming.
Speaker 4: But that was really kind of the Yeah, that was like.
Speaker 1: The the like kind of like the of the idea.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And then Todd Phillips started talking about woke culture
Speaker 7: a lot, and I thought it was funny, and my
Speaker 7: co writer I thought it was funny, and she commissioned
Speaker 7: me on Twitter to re edit Todd Phillips Joker.
Speaker 1: To make it the Woker.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean that's that's basically what I attempted to
Speaker 7: do at first. Like I was kind of just making
Speaker 7: this big, weird like ship post of the Joker.
Speaker 3: Gender is a spectrum. They're like, what, like you wouldn't
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 1: Joker.
Speaker 7: There was a lot of fart fart sound effects and
Speaker 7: wooshes and you know, like slip sounds. But yeah, while
Speaker 7: I was doing that, I just kind of like genuinely
Speaker 7: remembered how much I like loved those characters growing up
Speaker 7: and stuff, and I don't know, just like I I
Speaker 7: the whole idea just kind of crystallized all in an
Speaker 7: instant where I was just like, oh okay, like it's
Speaker 7: I there's I need to make like a trans Joker parody,
Speaker 7: Like that's what I need to do right now. And
Speaker 7: this was also like while it is like March twenty twenty,
Speaker 7: so everything was shut down.
Speaker 1: I came on your hands.
Speaker 7: Yeah, just the time where we were all thriving. I
Speaker 7: was an alternative comedy editor for many years, so like
Speaker 7: I my job just completely disappeared like all of ours did,
Speaker 7: but mine like really did because like, who the fuck
Speaker 7: was gonna ever you know, pay me to like add
Speaker 7: fart sound effects.
Speaker 4: To something during that you know, a few months there.
Speaker 7: So yeah, it just kind of I'm out with that,
Speaker 7: and I was like, I'm just gonna do this. I'm
Speaker 7: just gonna like make this movie. And the goal always
Speaker 7: was to make it like legally sound. I mean like
Speaker 7: I talked to lawyers when we first started writing it,
Speaker 7: and and uh, yeah, no, I mean they The thing
Speaker 7: about the thing about the law, like about fair use
Speaker 7: laws and parody is like it's like porn.
Speaker 3: Or whatever where it's interpretations.
Speaker 7: Yeah, when you know it when you see it, so
Speaker 7: like of course, like you know, a big studio, like
Speaker 7: if they don't get it or they don't see it,
Speaker 7: like it's gonna kind of I'm not.
Speaker 4: I wasn't.
Speaker 7: I wasn't shocked. I think more than anything, I was
Speaker 7: shocked just because like yeah, just because like I've been
Speaker 7: so open about the fact that I was making it
Speaker 7: for years to make so like I was on Twitter,
Speaker 7: I was going to meetings at Warner Brothers for other stuff.
Speaker 7: Like I worked for fucking Warner Brothers for like almost
Speaker 7: a decade because I was working for Adult swims so
Speaker 7: like they knew what I was doing, so yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's like what do they expect like that, like
Speaker 3: every line of dialogue, like someone looks to the camera
Speaker 3: and as like this is a parody, by the way,
Speaker 3: like this this is this is fair use parody. I
Speaker 3: feel like a lot of fair use laws are the
Speaker 3: kind of thing where it's like even if like the
Speaker 3: case is like going to go nowhere.
Speaker 1: Like I feel like.
Speaker 3: A lot of like like corporations and stuff, and like
Speaker 3: like businesses will like at least like attempt like just
Speaker 3: to like inconvenience, you know, Like I feel like you
Speaker 3: see this a lot on like YouTube and stuff like
Speaker 3: like all the like copyright extra can and all the
Speaker 3: kind of.
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely the legal stuff aside. I just even like philosophically,
Speaker 7: I don't know, like I do. I don't really see
Speaker 7: like Marvel movies, and I probably haven't seen like a
Speaker 7: DC Comics movie in a few years really besides Flash
Speaker 7: just because that was like a fucking crazy.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: No, I want to be the one that rehabilitates them.
Speaker 1: But we support queer voice.
Speaker 7: Somebody should definitely take that out of context. I yeah, no,
Speaker 7: I I just like I kind of like I feel
Speaker 7: like I have to hear all the time how like
Speaker 7: these characters are like modern religion or modern myths and stuff,
Speaker 7: and like if that's the case, like theoretically, like all
Speaker 7: laws aside. I'm just saying, like on a like a
Speaker 7: stinky artist level, like shouldn't like myth belongs to the people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, no.
Speaker 3: One has a copyright on zeus, right, That's kind of
Speaker 3: what I was going to say, is like, isn't The
Speaker 3: Joker like such an archetype that like it's not even
Speaker 3: it doesn't necessarily belong in my mind to anyone.
Speaker 7: But yeah, and I mean that was really the movie
Speaker 7: that I wanted to make with it too, was kind
Speaker 7: of like the the I mean like we you know,
Speaker 7: you can see it in the trailer, like we recreated
Speaker 7: set pieces, like we made an entire three D model
Speaker 7: of that's a recreation of of Joaquin Phoenix's apartment in
Speaker 7: The Joker, Like we you know did that. That was
Speaker 7: done by Paul McBride, who should shout out, but uh,
Speaker 7: who doesn't even do Like, who doesn't I don't even
Speaker 7: think Paul like makes movies and stuff. Like most of
Speaker 7: the people who worked on it were just like cool artists.
Speaker 3: And yeah, as I know some uh friends friends of
Speaker 3: mine thought worked on it.
Speaker 1: Shouts out to them the best movies honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you started production in twenty twenty, did I
Speaker 3: catch thought correctly?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Like it was such a it was a really organic process,
Speaker 7: and as many of us could probably relate, I don't
Speaker 7: really remember that year that well, both because I was
Speaker 7: like stoned the entire time and just because, like you know,
Speaker 7: none of us have processed COVID yet.
Speaker 3: I still haven't gotten sober. Yeah, I loved it. It
Speaker 3: was the best year of my life. I didn't have
Speaker 3: to work at a restaurant for seven months, and I
Speaker 3: still made the same amount of money.
Speaker 1: So no, honestly, take me fucking back.
Speaker 7: I got to like I wouldn't have been able to
Speaker 7: make this movie, like that movie or that year was
Speaker 7: like my fucking wake up call, because I just I
Speaker 7: wanted to make a movie since I was six years old,
Speaker 7: like I knew I was a filmmaker before I knew
Speaker 7: I was a girl, like I did not and like
Speaker 7: watching because that was that same summer, like just with
Speaker 7: all the protests happening, and like I saw fucking takes
Speaker 7: in like my city. Like it was just like oh okay,
Speaker 7: like shit's going off, and like I haven't done the
Speaker 7: thing that Like I literally feel like I'm on this
Speaker 7: planet to do, like now is the time, and I'm
Speaker 7: going to do. I'm going to cash in every single favor.
Speaker 7: I'm going to absolutely wore myself out there. I'm going
Speaker 7: to put all of me into this.
Speaker 1: Uh So, how many dicks did you see?
Speaker 4: Not enough?
Speaker 7: Uh but yeah, twenty twenty and we shot it in
Speaker 7: five days at the end of twenty twenty, which.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, it's insane. That's amazing. Yeah, I did.
Speaker 3: I also wanted to ask, like, since it's kind of
Speaker 3: been in this like weird limbo for some time, has
Speaker 3: it changed, like or it's like is the one that
Speaker 3: you uh like finish, like the one that you like
Speaker 3: you I believe you said you premiered it at at tiff, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: We premiered it at Tiff in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: And then that's when it kind of entered it's like
Speaker 3: a limbo state, as I'll refer to it. I don't know,
Speaker 3: is it like the same, because did you just.
Speaker 1: Leave it alone?
Speaker 7: Like did you just like absolutely not. No, it's it's
Speaker 7: uh okay. Yeah, the Tiff. The Tiff cut was like
Speaker 7: a very early it was a fresh paint job, and
Speaker 7: it was very hard to watch for that reason. I
Speaker 7: mean like and that was god like Tiff. It's so crazy.
Speaker 7: It's like why I'm like kind of so like cagey
Speaker 7: about just talking about the legal stuff sometimes because it's
Speaker 7: like the actual experience of Tiff was so.
Speaker 4: Just like amazing and beautiful.
Speaker 7: Like I was finishing the movie ten minutes before I
Speaker 7: got in the fucking car to go to Tiff, like
Speaker 7: I was still I hit export because my girlfriend was like,
Speaker 7: you've been up for three days, like you need to
Speaker 7: just you need to finish this, like we gotta go
Speaker 7: screen this for a bunch of Canadians. And I hit
Speaker 7: export and yeah, like that was that so like it
Speaker 7: was I didn't even watch it down before we screened it,
Speaker 7: so that first cut was very fresh, but like it
Speaker 7: was still like every single joke landed, like people were crying,
Speaker 7: like I had this mother of like this this it
Speaker 7: was so crazy just because like I clear, I made
Speaker 7: this movie for like thirteen year old me and like
Speaker 7: just also to like I don't know, like to make
Speaker 7: like this kind of trans movie because nobody's ever like
Speaker 7: made this kind of trans movie before because I never
Speaker 7: could have met Oh, go ahead, I.
Speaker 2: Was gonna say, we're typically like we have to be
Speaker 2: like kind of a superhero in a lot of movies
Speaker 2: in a sense we're not allowed.
Speaker 7: Totally or a super victory or a super exactly or
Speaker 7: be funny or like like I don't know, like there's
Speaker 7: just so much like there was like jokes and stuff,
Speaker 7: not not like that it was like oh, it's like
Speaker 7: should I really like put this out there or whatever,
Speaker 7: but like jokes in there where it's like about the
Speaker 7: trans experience and stuff where I'm like is this okay
Speaker 7: to like talk about because like I just have never
Speaker 7: seen it in a movie before. And then like yeah,
Speaker 7: like normally it's just like us, you know, offering ourselves
Speaker 7: or like falling in love with somebody and them and
Speaker 7: making their lives better and then we die at the
Speaker 7: end or whatever.
Speaker 4: So like yeah, it was I don't know, like I
Speaker 4: always I.
Speaker 1: Was not made by trans generally by trans people.
Speaker 4: Although they're starting to crop up.
Speaker 7: There's a few, like you know, like there's like a
Speaker 7: few like neo lib trans filmmakers out there now.
Speaker 3: I want this. This is something we actually talked about
Speaker 3: a good bit with Liz Pichell Loveless.
Speaker 1: She's amazing.
Speaker 3: I mean I think like representation like matters, like I guess,
Speaker 3: but like it it's not like the end all be all,
Speaker 3: you know, and I feel like it would be a
Speaker 3: much better sign of progress to like just have like
Speaker 3: trans characters. I don't know, like it's just like they're
Speaker 3: trans because they are, and that's that's all there is
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 7: You know. I think that was like I don't know,
Speaker 7: it's it's why it's funny when like I don't know,
Speaker 7: the like the alt right has finally discovered my movie,
Speaker 7: which is funny.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's gonna be free class.
Speaker 7: Oh no, I'm like, finally, God damn it. I need
Speaker 7: the fucking engagement, especially on X now.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's impossible to everything up.
Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean, like it's funny when people like
Speaker 7: I've jokingly called it the woker I like, but like
Speaker 7: when people like say it's like it's it's it's fucking
Speaker 7: woke or whatever, I'm like, it's not like it's it's
Speaker 7: like I I like, I'm not a good role model
Speaker 7: in it. It's about a fucking drug addict who like
Speaker 7: doesn't get along with her mom and like decides to
Speaker 7: do alternative comedy. Like that is like the least inspirational
Speaker 7: story on paper, and like certainly not like I have.
Speaker 7: I've had trans people like tell me that, like I
Speaker 7: shouldn't like make trans villains and stuff like it's it's
Speaker 7: I think, you know, like it's absolutely like I mean,
Speaker 7: we yeah, but only for the reason too, because like
Speaker 7: I don't know, like I my movie is very honest,
Speaker 7: it's very personal and like very specific, and like I mean,
Speaker 7: like I was saying, like I really only kind of
Speaker 7: expected trans people to love it for that reason. But
Speaker 7: like I had this experience at Tiff where like this
Speaker 7: like mother came up to me, like and she was
Speaker 7: just like crying.
Speaker 4: She was like, thank you for making this, Like I can't.
Speaker 4: I'm just like I feel like I understand how to
Speaker 4: like talk.
Speaker 7: To my daughter a little bit and more now just
Speaker 7: having like just sat through that like for ninety minutes,
Speaker 7: and like I was like and like like because she
Speaker 7: had a trans daughter, and it was like I couldn't
Speaker 7: believe that like I would be able to get that
Speaker 7: kind of response from it. And that's like to me,
Speaker 7: the value of like actual representation and like and I
Speaker 7: don't like the word representation because like it's such a
Speaker 7: surface level bullshit word.
Speaker 1: But like if we actually get.
Speaker 7: These opportunities to tell our stories and if we actually
Speaker 7: get to like I don't know, just like film is
Speaker 7: a medium, like if you actually use it in this way,
Speaker 7: it's very specific and very honest and autobiographical. It could
Speaker 7: not only like be really healing for yourself if you
Speaker 7: need that. I certainly did, but it also really people
Speaker 7: people connect with specificity.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, yeah, that's a that's a very good way
Speaker 3: to put it.
Speaker 1: I think that's uh. I think that's very true.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, even then, like like a lot of like
Speaker 3: like a lot of my favorite songwriters like will like
Speaker 3: write something thing that like I might not fully like
Speaker 3: quite understand, but like the specificity of their words like
Speaker 3: moves me in a way that I'm like like, oh wow,
Speaker 3: I have had to rent a room before.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah that is really cool crazy yeah right yeah, Like
Speaker 3: they swept floors there too, that's nuts. Like yeah, that
Speaker 3: that is that is really beautiful And that is something
Speaker 3: that like I long believed representation is not liberation, and
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of far from it in many respects.
Speaker 4: And queer art should be like edgy.
Speaker 1: Yeah I do too.
Speaker 3: I feel like we're going nowhere with this like Steven
Speaker 3: Universe tuttle puddle bullshit, Like I feel like that's like
Speaker 3: only going to like preach to the choir of like
Speaker 3: queer people that want to watch things that have like
Speaker 3: no like central conflict.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like nice nice. Yeah, this is.
Speaker 2: Like I think trans women should be like, and trans
Speaker 2: women in particular, I feel like this happens a lot
Speaker 2: where we get boxed into like this, like you can't
Speaker 2: be like mean, you can't be a ship poster, you
Speaker 2: can't be like just like crazy, you can't you have
Speaker 2: to be like.
Speaker 1: The whole model at x y Z.
Speaker 2: And it's like I feel like true liberation is just
Speaker 2: to allow us to be like the really fucking people
Speaker 2: we are, Yeah, just be humans.
Speaker 3: I don't think we'll have like true liberation until there's
Speaker 3: like a trans jackass.
Speaker 1: Yes, well you know what that tech thing was actually on? Right? Riley?
Speaker 3: Okay, Riley had a show for Wow, and they had
Speaker 3: a segment on the show that was Jacks and Riley
Speaker 3: played really yes, they're like pushing trans bitches and shopping
Speaker 3: carts like down a flight, Yes, doing like the cockroach,
Speaker 3: like blowing game like through the pipe and like stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: So it was like it's full.
Speaker 2: It was a segment in their actual show avalon TV.
Speaker 2: Not watch avalon TV on whow plus. Well, I have
Speaker 2: a question for you about playing the Joker, directing this
Speaker 2: movie all of that. You know, it's kind of a
Speaker 2: well known fact that many actors who have taken on
Speaker 2: this role kind of go down, you know, the the
Speaker 2: the spiral, the rabbit hole a little bit. What was
Speaker 2: that journey like for you and do you feel like
Speaker 2: you had to like break your sanity completely to get there?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean nobody's ever asked me that yet.
Speaker 3: Like, are you like still like talking like the Joker?
Speaker 3: Like awesome? Butler is like permanently talking like Elvis.
Speaker 7: I've always had like I've always had like a cackle,
Speaker 7: Like my laugh has always been very joker fed. And
Speaker 7: I've noticed that people think I've like I'm like affected
Speaker 7: in that way now where it's like but I'm like no,
Speaker 7: it's like you should meet meet the rest of my family.
Speaker 7: We all sound like crazy fucking nightmare clowns.
Speaker 4: Yeah, cackling.
Speaker 1: I love a cackle.
Speaker 3: Cackles are like cute to me, like because it's I
Speaker 3: love when like you can tell people are like tickles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean just I love I love a good cackle.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, cackles are great.
Speaker 7: I'm I'm I hope, I hope I can be good
Speaker 7: for cackle representation at the very least. But yeah, no,
Speaker 7: I went fucking crazy making this movie. Like I I mean, like, look,
Speaker 7: it really was, like I mean, I guess I should
Speaker 7: say what the movies like really actually about.
Speaker 4: I didn't really like it.
Speaker 7: It follows, you know, this closeted trans woman who basically
Speaker 7: like grows up in the Midwest and leaves home like
Speaker 7: non affirming parents with dreams of like being on like
Speaker 7: this like SNL type show. And so she moves to
Speaker 7: a place called Gotham City. And this is in a
Speaker 7: like a nightmare reality where comedy is illegal, which was
Speaker 7: an element that America if anything, I'm like, the alright
Speaker 7: should connect with that because they're always saying that, but right, yeah,
Speaker 7: and she basically like starts her own illegal comedy theater
Speaker 7: and she kind of like finds love and discovers herself,
Speaker 7: and yeah, it sort of follows the traditional like coming
Speaker 7: of age heroes journey in that way from there. But
Speaker 7: uh yeah, like I really it's it's very with all
Speaker 7: of that in mind. Like it's super based on my life.
Speaker 7: Like I came from the Midwest. I was doing comedy,
Speaker 7: like way too young. I started doing sketch and improv
Speaker 7: when I was thirteen.
Speaker 4: I was a part of this, Like.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of things you could be doing way
Speaker 2: too young, And I think comedy is because maybe okay
Speaker 2: I was, I was on Craigslist way too young.
Speaker 7: Okay, well I yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, but
Speaker 7: comedy can lead to Craigslist, is my point. You know,
Speaker 7: comedy that at that age because like I mean, thank
Speaker 7: god I had it too, because like I was such
Speaker 7: a fucking I was crazy in high school. Like I
Speaker 7: was nuts and like needed, uh some sort of outlet
Speaker 7: and like being able to like go to the city
Speaker 7: like I grew up in the South suburbs of Chicago
Speaker 7: and like being able to like go downtown and like
Speaker 7: it was the place where I discovered how to be
Speaker 7: me safely while also like you know, getting a few
Speaker 7: drug problems and like getting into really codependent relationships with
Speaker 7: a bunch of comedians and like making a lot of
Speaker 7: art that was cool and fun and I'm like proud of.
Speaker 7: But like also you know, at times inauthentic to me
Speaker 7: at other times like very like self hatey and like
Speaker 7: kind of just like almost like high concept self harm.
Speaker 7: So like this movie's kind of about all of that,
Speaker 7: and like so like and it was, it was about
Speaker 7: all of that very intentionally in a way to like
Speaker 7: process it in like a healthy way because I'd been
Speaker 7: working on I mean, like I feel like.
Speaker 4: I came out when I was like twenty eight.
Speaker 7: I came out earlier than that, is queer like just
Speaker 7: generally like all right, I'm gonna start dressing different and
Speaker 7: kissing different.
Speaker 1: At similar thing for me honestly.
Speaker 7: So everybody just thought I was a gay man.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean so I couldn't.
Speaker 7: I just like therapy wasn't enough, Like I needed to
Speaker 7: like basically re enact my life to like actually understand.
Speaker 4: No, like I mean fucking put it on a T shirt.
Speaker 4: Like it really wasn't.
Speaker 7: Like I was just caught in these dumb cycles of
Speaker 7: just like recreating like just the toxic structures I grew
Speaker 7: up around.
Speaker 1: It's very senecticy New York.
Speaker 4: I'll take it.
Speaker 3: Speaking of Charlie Kaufman as as an aside as someone
Speaker 3: that I've always thought as secretly trans too.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I.
Speaker 7: Will never I will never assign that to anybody, but
Speaker 7: he's his work does, especially that last one has a
Speaker 7: very uh vibe to it.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of ending things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, it does, like all if, all of
Speaker 3: his screenplays, all of his movies have some kind of
Speaker 3: like gender bending and them to some degree. There's like
Speaker 3: Cameron Diaz and Who's goat like wants to be John Malkovich,
Speaker 3: And there's like, uh fuck, what's his other goddamn movies?
Speaker 1: It that's a matter.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm firmly against uh self, I ding for
Speaker 3: other people, as we've taken stros numerous times.
Speaker 4: But well is trans.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm sorry, no, but I love it. I don't know,
Speaker 7: and like I mean it tone complimentary too when I
Speaker 7: say it about him, because like I just like it's
Speaker 7: why I've always connected with his art and like Ari
Speaker 7: Aster too and both Cronenbergs. I'm like, like, I it's
Speaker 7: like I don't know, like really good ally filmmakers or.
Speaker 1: Something Charlie Kaufman.
Speaker 3: There's something I also know that his book ant Kind
Speaker 3: has a lot of uh like intense gender bending stuff
Speaker 3: at a I definitely see like something very like transcendent
Speaker 3: and like the work of Cronenberg in the way that
Speaker 3: like I don't know it's all it's all about, like
Speaker 3: kind of like the next yeah new flesh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or fucking his last.
Speaker 3: Movie, Crimes of the Future, is about one of Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's one of the most trans movies I've ever seen. Like,
Speaker 3: surgery is the new sex, Like, I mean, are you
Speaker 3: like I remember like feeling really smart when I thought
Speaker 3: about that as like surgery, Like if you think about
Speaker 3: like sex, like not as like the physical act, but
Speaker 3: sex as like you know, gender, like surgery is the
Speaker 3: new sex. Like it makes like even more sense. But yeah,
Speaker 3: Crimes of the Future is an awesome movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking I.
Speaker 7: Love them existence too, Like they like in that one
Speaker 7: basically have like like weird little like like pussies installed
Speaker 7: in their tailbones.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, it's very cool. It's very cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of Yannic
Speaker 3: imagery and in his films, Video Drone being another very
Speaker 3: obvious one.
Speaker 1: And crash. I mean that like Jesus Christ extensively on
Speaker 1: the pod.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a beautiful movie, Like God, damn, I'll let
Speaker 3: you borrow it if you want. I don't have a
Speaker 3: media player, what well, let me borrow that too.
Speaker 1: You can't borrow my Xbox. I need it. I need
Speaker 1: it to get drunk and play an avy cart and yeah, yeah, I'll.
Speaker 3: Put it on a thumb drive and mail it to you.
Speaker 3: So what's next for Vera Drew? Are we doing the
Speaker 3: People's the People's Jigsaw?
Speaker 7: I would love to make a fucking Saw movie, but
Speaker 7: I would love to get hired to make one, like,
Speaker 7: I don't know, if I like, please like, I will,
Speaker 7: I'll take any studio notes.
Speaker 1: I will, I will, I will like we need as
Speaker 1: much to a Saw?
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, I mean that's another series that also there's
Speaker 7: something about Saw that feels.
Speaker 1: Well, we've been talking. We talked about this with liking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe this is a conversation.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get so many things covered by insurance
Speaker 2: right now for my gender affirming surgeries and whatnot, and
Speaker 2: I am having the hardest time, and Janey just keeps
Speaker 2: telling me about the plot of Sauce six, which is
Speaker 2: when the insurance.
Speaker 3: It's torturing a bunch of insurance executives.
Speaker 1: I think it should be.
Speaker 3: Something of that nature, you know, Like I was thinking,
Speaker 3: like the People's Jigsaw would be like it's like a
Speaker 3: guy who's like like bullied trans women like.
Speaker 1: Takes up and.
Speaker 3: He's like like uh, he's like on like a scale, right,
Speaker 3: and he's got to make the scale like increase in
Speaker 3: weight or it's something like squishes his entire body really slowly,
Speaker 3: and he's got to like insert like breasts and plants
Speaker 3: like under he's got to give himself a book job
Speaker 3: and then he understands gender dysphoria.
Speaker 7: From that, it's like about creating sympathy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 7: I had a saw porno idea that was called Scissor,
Speaker 7: and it was like the idea was basically like putting.
Speaker 7: It was all about like cuckolding and like basically like
Speaker 7: putting like you know, rich executives wives into these like
Speaker 7: machines that turn them lesbian and stuff. Was my initial.
Speaker 7: You can feel free to cut that, keep it. I
Speaker 7: don't give a.
Speaker 1: It's easy to just keepe it me pushing.
Speaker 4: It by answering what I'm actually working on next.
Speaker 7: I just edited Alice McKay's new feature, which is a
Speaker 7: Christmas slasher movie called Carnage for Christmas.
Speaker 4: I don't know when that's coming out.
Speaker 7: I know it's like hitting festivals this year, but that's
Speaker 7: super fucking awesome and cool.
Speaker 3: If it comes out by Christmas, that's perfect.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I hope I hopefully hopefully does. And then yeah,
Speaker 7: I'm writing two things right now. One of them's kind
Speaker 7: of that like body horror idea I was describing, but
Speaker 7: you know, like I had a lot of stuff that
Speaker 7: I left from that when I took a lot of
Speaker 7: it for Joker, and that's hopefully coming out soon. I
Speaker 7: haven't really said what it's about too much yet, so
Speaker 7: I don't really know if I.
Speaker 1: Want to do that. But have you, like, have you
Speaker 1: been shooting it or are you just still like I'm like.
Speaker 7: I'm I've got like a script in and we're putting
Speaker 7: another one together to hopefully start getting some cast.
Speaker 1: Are do you mostly film in La?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: We filmed Joker in La. I think this next thing
Speaker 7: is probably going to be in Canada, just because I'm
Speaker 7: developing it with this Canadian production company called Stellar Citizens,
Speaker 7: and I kind of like the idea of shooting it
Speaker 7: in Canada just because like it's set in a suburb
Speaker 7: of Chicago, and like I just I kind of wanted
Speaker 7: to have like this nineties movie vibe where like and
Speaker 7: like every nineties movie is like fucking shot in Vancouver,
Speaker 7: when it's like, yes, Chicago, Chicago or yeah Home Alone.
Speaker 3: No Home Alone was actually Chicago, right.
Speaker 1: That's Home Alone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they actually that was.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just like that's not the example
Speaker 3: that I thought you would use for a movie Nineties houses.
Speaker 1: I think if Home Alone, you know, right.
Speaker 3: Oh, I thought I thought you were saying like movies
Speaker 3: that were like shot like in like Vancouver as a
Speaker 3: substitute for New York.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Like I think like they use Toronto a lot
Speaker 7: for Chicago in the nineties and Vancouver for New York.
Speaker 5: And and then.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I love me some X File.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I love it when they're like the only episodes
Speaker 7: that have any realism is when they're actually in the
Speaker 7: Pacific Northwest, because like every other one's like there, we're
Speaker 7: in southern California and there's just like a gorgeous forest
Speaker 7: and mountain range behind them.
Speaker 3: Like lesh ferns and like moss and everything. Yet Yeah,
Speaker 3: and they don't have to like use like like any
Speaker 3: kind of effects for like the aliens and stuff because
Speaker 3: those are just out there. Yeah, like they're there you
Speaker 3: can find in Canada. I did just kind of want
Speaker 3: to ask, like, so like now that like it's out
Speaker 3: and yeah, the movie, the movie is out and people
Speaker 3: can see it, Like how has I feel like you
Speaker 3: kind of answered this hall, but like how's how's the
Speaker 3: reception then? Like, because I believe me, I really appreciate
Speaker 3: that you made something that just certainly speaks to the
Speaker 3: kind of like trannisphere that like birth birth.
Speaker 1: To I love that term.
Speaker 3: Is the broader uh movie watching Spectrum are the Are
Speaker 3: they rocking with the people's joker?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean I guess you know.
Speaker 7: During the limbo period, like I was screening it a lot,
Speaker 7: like we did. We did a lot of secret screenings.
Speaker 7: I did a whole tour in Australia. The movie like
Speaker 7: is kind of like a cult classic in Australia, which
Speaker 7: is fucking just amazing, I think because it's kind of
Speaker 7: it has like an edge Lord recovering edge Lord vibe
Speaker 7: to it, and like Australia really appreciates that.
Speaker 2: Like I have some Australian listeners. Shout out to our
Speaker 2: Australian listeners.
Speaker 1: I love that's cool.
Speaker 4: My favorite maybe my favorite place I've ever been.
Speaker 3: Aw I've got Jinda Desria too, mate.
Speaker 7: But yeah, we so we did screenings, like a bunch
Speaker 7: of screenings all over you know, North America too, at
Speaker 7: festivals and the movie Like it seems like people really
Speaker 7: fucking love this movie, Like it really it's really resonated.
Speaker 7: I think with both you know, trans people and like
Speaker 7: and SIS audiences.
Speaker 4: Like, you know, I get why.
Speaker 7: It's a tough sell for some CIS people just because like,
Speaker 7: you know, it's I guess it's sad to think about
Speaker 7: us or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like a lot of CIS and straight
Speaker 3: people will like just be turned off by the nature
Speaker 3: of like they'll see that it's like a queer movie
Speaker 3: and be like, oh, this isn't for me.
Speaker 2: Or they don't feel safe making fun. So I feel
Speaker 2: like there's like an element of that, Yeah, am I
Speaker 2: okay laughing at them?
Speaker 7: It's so that's my favorite audience though, is like because
Speaker 7: like there's there's so many jokes in the movie that
Speaker 7: like it's it is like uncomfortable for SIS people to
Speaker 7: laugh at it, like just just about you know, coding
Speaker 7: and whippets and you.
Speaker 1: Know, all the all the stuff that's like.
Speaker 4: So like I don't know, like I feel like SIS
Speaker 4: people could appreciate it.
Speaker 7: I mean, like if you have a bad relationship with
Speaker 7: your mom, this movie's for you.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: That sounds like me. Yeah, I wish my mom was
Speaker 2: the mom in Canada. Who I know.
Speaker 7: There's there's been I mean, like the experience of having
Speaker 7: it really resonate with people has been really cool and
Speaker 7: like I was never really I couldn't have imagined having
Speaker 7: this much exposure this early in my career, and like
Speaker 7: there have been a lot of interactions with people after
Speaker 7: screenings and stuff that have been like just because of
Speaker 7: how much it's like resonated with people, Like they've been
Speaker 7: very intense interactions, Like I like this girl came up
Speaker 7: to me out of screening like basically hyperventilating, uh because
Speaker 7: of just like how much it like resonated with her.
Speaker 4: And I was just like.
Speaker 7: Ah, yeah, I'm mentally ill too, so I gotta go,
Speaker 7: like I'm sorry, I can't.
Speaker 4: Like it's it's kind of it's intense.
Speaker 7: But it's cool though, because like it has forced me
Speaker 7: to really like I've really gotten my shit together in
Speaker 7: this process. Like I someday I'll be able to like
Speaker 7: talk all about it. But like TIF, the TIF experience
Speaker 7: was like literally the most traumatic experience of my life.
Speaker 7: Like it was it was really it was heartbreaking and
Speaker 7: really uh kind of ripped apart my life, uh to
Speaker 7: be quite honest, and like I had this opportunity to
Speaker 7: you know make my life worse with various things that
Speaker 7: I've done in the past to do that, and like
Speaker 7: I also had this other chance to really just like
Speaker 7: lean into the shit that works and lean on you know,
Speaker 7: the people that helped me make it, like both to
Speaker 7: like get me back out there and go like, no,
Speaker 7: it's good, like we got to keep let's just keep
Speaker 7: showing it, and like they haven't done anything yet, so
Speaker 7: like let's just do it. And yeah, it's It's been
Speaker 7: a real cool opportunity to grow and I feel very
Speaker 7: lucky to have been able to like you know make
Speaker 7: it and have it not only like get interest in
Speaker 7: like future projects in mine and stuff like the fact
Speaker 7: that I could like get to have conversations like this,
Speaker 7: but also just like, yeah, it's it did kind of
Speaker 7: heal some trauma and help me develop some better tools
Speaker 7: for dealing with being in this like horrible fucking nightmare reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And it sounds like it's it's helping other
Speaker 3: people deal with that too, which is a very special thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's all all I could ask for.
Speaker 7: And and also like I'm looking forward to like some
Speaker 7: trans people seeing it and just having the experience going
Speaker 7: like Okay, it's fine or it's not for me, Like
Speaker 7: I really I hope it at the very least, Like
Speaker 7: it just feels good to like watch a trans person
Speaker 7: on screen for an entire movie, because that's doesn't happen.
Speaker 3: Having trans representation means that we will have, uh will
Speaker 3: be able to have trans people making mid things, and
Speaker 3: that's okay too. That's a podcast, I mean yeah, And
Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be like contingent on like there
Speaker 3: like like gender, sex or whatever, Like it can just
Speaker 3: be mid because it's mid.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's a beauty in that too.
Speaker 7: Having now met like the uh kind of bland toothless
Speaker 7: trans filmmakers that I kind of hinted that like just
Speaker 7: the you know, the kind of like people making like
Speaker 7: assimilation is start Like having met like trans people like
Speaker 7: that now, I'm like, oh my god, like it gave
Speaker 7: me hope, like because it's just like, yeah, we're like
Speaker 7: actually we're starting to enter the economy, like they're gonna
Speaker 7: not be able to like ignore us anymore. Like it's
Speaker 7: it's kind of like I'm glad I don't have to
Speaker 7: fill that role uh too much, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: I'm very glad that you are out here making something
Speaker 3: that's like truly like transgressive and something that's like actually
Speaker 3: like ruffling people's feathers. Like I I love to see that.
Speaker 3: I would love that over any other kinds of.
Speaker 1: Or yeah, like.
Speaker 3: Assimilationist art like whatever whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 3: whatever it is. I that that's the kind of art
Speaker 3: that is not for me in any way.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love I love that you're actually.
Speaker 3: Doing something transgressive because that's always like, that's that's what
Speaker 3: I go for in like pretty much all arts, like
Speaker 3: whether it's like queer, trans or what. And I can
Speaker 3: definitely say the same for like meeting like uh and
Speaker 3: being involved in like trans musicians and stuff where it's
Speaker 3: like oh you just honey, like I don't know who
Speaker 3: you think you're like pissing off with here. But anyway, well.
Speaker 4: It's you know, we like live, we live in a society.
Speaker 1: Uh that's true. That's true.
Speaker 7: We're all like literally everybody now acts like they are transgressive.
Speaker 7: Like yeah, literally, it's it's kind of like, especially at
Speaker 7: least in America, like it's it's like our national identity,
Speaker 7: and I feel like it's kind of always been there,
Speaker 7: but like it's to this like obnoxious degree now and
Speaker 7: uh yeah, I don't know, it's it's so it's also
Speaker 7: just very frustrating for me, just as somebody who like
Speaker 7: grew up on like fucking Jerry Springer and like Howard
Speaker 7: Stern and like John Waters and shit, like the fact
Speaker 7: that like the worst people have like staked their claim
Speaker 7: on like offensive comedy, like in like queer people don't
Speaker 7: own it anymore. Like I'm like, right, well, that is
Speaker 7: what we're actually losing. Like I actually think we're making
Speaker 7: progress like as a whole, but I think like culturally,
Speaker 7: like trans people really need to rise up and take
Speaker 7: back just being publicly repulsive.
Speaker 2: And I'm tired of jokes about fucking top surgery. We
Speaker 2: don't need any more jokes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he raised a good point because like
Speaker 3: it's not like not just like a left wing problem
Speaker 3: of like comedy being comedy being illegal, because like I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna deny it. There are a lot of like
Speaker 3: very like anti comedy left us, like I've met them,
Speaker 3: like the kind of an annoying trait. Oh yeah, but
Speaker 3: it's also a very big problem. Like it's also fucking
Speaker 3: right wingers are the least funny people on the planet,
Speaker 3: like like Dave Chappelle, like someone who legitimately was a
Speaker 3: very funny person at one point being like I'm.
Speaker 1: Team Turf, Like have you heard a Turf before?
Speaker 3: They're the most anti comedy people on the planet.
Speaker 2: Like somebody having a baby, They're gonna like, you know,
Speaker 2: fucking police you on.
Speaker 1: It, dude.
Speaker 3: I'm seeing like right wing people like log on x
Speaker 3: the everything app every day and be like we need
Speaker 3: to stop making fun of the birth of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: It's like you are a baby.
Speaker 7: It's like yeah, So, like I don't know, I think
Speaker 7: in general everybody just has we have too much access.
Speaker 7: I'm not saying anything like revolutionary or but like I've
Speaker 7: become very like Boomer about like philosophically when it comes
Speaker 7: to social media, but like same, it really is just
Speaker 7: like we have way too much access to all everybody,
Speaker 7: like even my friends, Like I know everybody's like toilet
Speaker 7: thoughts now, you know, like I know every single.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the funny way to put it, mental diarrhea.
Speaker 2: We're not built to process like every person that we
Speaker 2: like remotely or like even kind of know their every
Speaker 2: internal thought and like political feelings and all of that.
Speaker 1: Like it's just so much to like hold.
Speaker 2: We're meant to like yeah, like eat, sleep, shit, breathe
Speaker 2: and like watch a movie I don't know.
Speaker 7: Pray and and and uh and salute the flag.
Speaker 1: To lay flat, to lay flat and watch I need
Speaker 1: to lay flat. I want to do that is like me, you.
Speaker 7: Know, no, it's it's so I don't know, like it's
Speaker 7: I think about it all the time too, Like like
Speaker 7: Twitter has always kind of been this, you know, like
Speaker 7: I follow ship posters and sex workers and then news
Speaker 7: accountings and then activists, so like yeah, it's the whatever
Speaker 7: she's doing just seeing all this, just seeing like poorn
Speaker 7: like dead body then like a ex slur joke and
Speaker 7: then like yeah then Jennie, It's like it's like literally
Speaker 7: mk Ultra. Yeah, oh my god, no, they would they
Speaker 7: would get.
Speaker 3: It's like having in your pocket the access to like
Speaker 3: the ending of two thousand and one, where just like
Speaker 3: going through like all these colors of like instead of
Speaker 3: like looking at it with this like transcendent like sense
Speaker 3: of like horrified eyes wide like oh my god, you're
Speaker 3: just like okay, right, oh okay, all right, okay.
Speaker 7: I started meditating a couple of years ago, like after
Speaker 7: years of trying to just because like I wicked ADHD
Speaker 7: and like sitting still is very hard for me. It
Speaker 7: finally stuck and like thank god, just because like I
Speaker 7: don't know, I'm so addicted to my my phone and
Speaker 7: social media, like I I become a lot better. I mean,
Speaker 7: especially now that I like, now that I actually get ship,
Speaker 7: like I almost got like I got like soft canceled
Speaker 7: about AI the other day, like it's it's.
Speaker 4: So not fun being on.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So like yeah, it's like it's become a lot
Speaker 7: easier for me to have healthy boundaries with it. But
Speaker 7: like I, yeah, I can't. I don't want to be
Speaker 7: any more desensitized than I already am to like violence
Speaker 7: and horrible shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I got soft canceled for saying something bad
Speaker 3: about Green Day.
Speaker 1: Like it's it sucks dude anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't even have like the I will say,
Speaker 3: like this isn't exactly new to like the post elon
Speaker 3: like Twitter thing like this is always kind of yeah
Speaker 3: how it goes, but that's still bad, Like that's still
Speaker 3: not like a healthy way to like, uh, interact with
Speaker 3: the world, you know, Like no.
Speaker 7: It's really not and I don't I just don't really
Speaker 7: know what people get out of it beyond like it's
Speaker 7: just so mean and like I dun'k I dunk on people,
Speaker 7: Like I watched the entirety of True Detective Night Country
Speaker 7: and like and tweeted about it every second I was
Speaker 7: watching it, and like I was mean.
Speaker 4: I was talking about a.
Speaker 7: Bad show, Like I wasn't like your ideas suck and
Speaker 7: like everything like just like having.
Speaker 3: People a little mad about it. So it's so crazy,
Speaker 3: how dah Detective Night Country?
Speaker 4: Thankfully nobody can.
Speaker 7: I tried to cancel me for I feel like Night
Speaker 7: Country was so bad that like the.
Speaker 3: People watched it the whole time just confused. I was like,
Speaker 3: do I like this? Do I hate this?
Speaker 1: Do I like what it was?
Speaker 7: Like Twin Peaks the Return or something like it was.
Speaker 7: So it was just because it was kind of boring.
Speaker 1: Like the return as incredible, but like.
Speaker 7: You know what I mean, like the weird like just
Speaker 7: stationary shots and like still like it's just like it
Speaker 7: was so stilted and weird.
Speaker 3: That's interesting because I didn't watch it, but I did
Speaker 3: watch True Detective season two and a lot of it,
Speaker 3: like cribbed from Twin Peaks, like it's pretty pretty like
Speaker 3: egregiously too in a way that really like turned me off.
Speaker 3: But that being said, I kind of like season two
Speaker 3: even though it was it was stupid, but like I
Speaker 3: kind of like a.
Speaker 1: We gotta, we gotta, we gotta. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Anyway, uh yeah, I'm glad you're out here doing what
Speaker 3: you're doing.
Speaker 1: I think that that's.
Speaker 3: Very for I think I think I mean that pass.
Speaker 4: Like talking talking to my parents or something.
Speaker 3: All right, well, well that's rushing me out. I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna shut my laptop a long way.
Speaker 5: Let you.
Speaker 1: Great theole you tell people when.
Speaker 3: Uh no, you're not the asshole jam thank you?
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 3: Can you tell people when they can catch the screenings
Speaker 3: of the People's Joker.
Speaker 7: Yeah, So it's we're kind of like rolling it out
Speaker 7: sort of road show style, starting April fifth, uh in
Speaker 7: New York at the I f C Center, and then uh, yeah,
Speaker 7: we're going to like thirty plus cities from there pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 7: like all the all the big ones and yeah, it's
Speaker 7: gonna be play coming to it. I'm going to be
Speaker 7: doing Q and as at the screening in New York,
Speaker 7: the one in La, A couple in La, probably Atlanta, Chicago,
Speaker 7: and uh, I do I know, I don't want to.
Speaker 7: I love the South and I don't. I'm just so
Speaker 7: burnt out from traveling from last year. Like it was
Speaker 7: I really realized last year, like, oh, I'm not a
Speaker 7: road dog. I'm I'm very soft. I need my bed,
Speaker 7: I need my cats like I can't. I like can't
Speaker 7: not like smoke a pack a day when I'm traveling either,
Speaker 7: Like it's constantly when I'm traveling.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 7: Same, It's it's just not I'm like the worst, but
Speaker 7: like you know, I'm going. So I'm going to a
Speaker 7: few fun cities to do Q and as and and Hey,
Speaker 7: if you want me to come to your city, Uh,
Speaker 7: find some theater that's willing to fly me out, Like
Speaker 7: I I'll do it. It's also just very expensive to
Speaker 7: do but but yeah, we'll be playing a lot of
Speaker 7: different places.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 7: And you can get tickets at the People's Joker dot
Speaker 7: com or Altered Innocence dot com. That's our distributor. Altered
Speaker 7: Innocence is great. They have a really amazing catalog of films.
Speaker 7: If you're interested in queer films at all, check it out. Yeah,
Speaker 7: they just did a She is Conan good. It's amazing
Speaker 7: and I'm Vera Drew twenty two on all the social media.
Speaker 1: All the everything.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Vera, it was it was so great
Speaker 2: talking to you. I can't wait to see this movie.
Speaker 1: And yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Having you beatie translated I think bonus movie at review
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, Thank.
Speaker 2: You well, Jannie. That was a fantastic interview with Vera Drew.
Speaker 2: I am really fucking excited to go see The People's
Speaker 2: Joker together when it comes out in theaters next month. Yes,
Speaker 2: do we want to take some calls?
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's take some motherfucking calls. Let's hear what people
Speaker 3: got us.
Speaker 1: Roll these tapes.
Speaker 2: First, one is a callback on a on a on
Speaker 2: a love affair.
Speaker 1: Oh a follow up. Follow up. Yeah, oh yeah, love
Speaker 1: our first follow up?
Speaker 3: Yeah, follow up if you if you've called us and
Speaker 3: you want to give us more follow up.
Speaker 5: Hi, girls, I'm calling again. It's me Victoria.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 5: I already gave Carmen some context for background information, but
Speaker 5: I basically I have another dilemma. And I was dating
Speaker 5: this guy last year. We'll call him mister key Shane.
Speaker 5: We were seeing each other for like four months, and
Speaker 5: out of those four months, you know, we saw each
Speaker 5: other three times. It was really hard to set up
Speaker 5: a day. He was really inconsistent, and on the last date,
Speaker 5: I had gotten back from Japan and I brought him
Speaker 5: a cute key Shane and a couple of days later,
Speaker 5: I get a message from him from his phone with
Speaker 5: a video of the Keyshane in the trash can and
Speaker 5: a message that said he has a girlfriend and thanks
Speaker 5: thanks for the gift, and we lived together.
Speaker 1: Dad.
Speaker 5: I basically laughed, because, of course, of course this is happening,
Speaker 5: Like how cliche can this be? Like, of course, this
Speaker 5: is like the most cliche thing that could happen to
Speaker 5: a transpop that's dating a straight man. Anyways, I just
Speaker 5: assumed he didn't break up with his girlfriend that he
Speaker 5: has told me about. That he broke up like a
Speaker 5: couple of months ago, which is why he wanted to
Speaker 5: take things slow because it was a long distance relate
Speaker 5: I mean a long term relationship. So he basically disappeared.
Speaker 5: He never like talked to me again. I didn't also
Speaker 5: like inquire more like I just laughed and ignored everything else.
Speaker 5: So fast forward to last week, I had gotten a message.
Speaker 5: I got a message from him apologizing and asking if
Speaker 5: we can meet up so he can explain what happened.
Speaker 5: So we met up last Friday, and he basically told
Speaker 5: me that he went on a date with this girl
Speaker 5: and she got really wasted and drunk and couldn't drive
Speaker 5: back home, so he let her stay in his spare room. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and basically never left, and she squatted in his apartment
Speaker 5: and forced him basically to get into a relationship with him.
Speaker 5: And he's a type of pride that doesn't know how
Speaker 5: to say non and has a hard time setting boundaries.
Speaker 5: He's lying anyways, after she did all that, she sent
Speaker 5: that message and she basically shit it on every of
Speaker 5: his contacts. He had to delete his social media accounts
Speaker 5: and change numbers. He's lying Anyways, he feels really shitty
Speaker 5: for any says that he might have cost me given me.
Speaker 5: He doesn't want to get into a relationship super fast,
Speaker 5: but he wants to pick up where we left stop.
Speaker 5: Should I believe him and give him one another shams?
Speaker 5: Or is this just he's just like lying and like
Speaker 5: you're going through like hoops and like hurdles, who like
Speaker 5: hide the fact that he's like in a relationship or
Speaker 5: doesn't really want to.
Speaker 1: Get into a.
Speaker 5: Relationship with a trans girl. I don't know. He's also by,
Speaker 5: so I don't see why he would be You mean
Speaker 5: he would act that weight?
Speaker 1: Well you said straight? Is he by? Or is he straight?
Speaker 1: I'm in we're splitting hairs.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I'm really hung up on the keychain because
Speaker 3: that's very like mean and dramatic and I'm like shallow
Speaker 3: a little bit, so like that would be like the
Speaker 3: like no, I'm never talking to again, Like it's one
Speaker 3: thing to just like I don't know, like break up
Speaker 3: with me, like unprompted and like no.
Speaker 2: This was a girl that he's living with that is
Speaker 2: apparently squad So apparently he has according to this story,
Speaker 2: he has a girl that is squatting with him that
Speaker 2: is apparently his girlfriend. But he says that it's just
Speaker 2: some girl that stayed the night with him and just
Speaker 2: never went home, which is a bunch of bulls.
Speaker 3: No, I don't believe that for her, that's a bunch
Speaker 3: of Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.
Speaker 2: And so the text message was from the girl from
Speaker 2: his phone sending him sending her a picture of the
Speaker 2: key chain in the trash can, saying he has a
Speaker 2: girlfriend already, blah blahhh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that makes all right. Okay.
Speaker 3: I thought he was saying like and no, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: I was a bit confused. Okay, I would say you
Speaker 3: need to get contact with that girl and say, diva,
Speaker 3: he said that you're a squatter. Uh you know, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be honest as tempting as it is to like
Speaker 3: be like messy and blow up his spot like that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: if you do that, Like it sounds like this girl's
Speaker 3: kind of crazy, and it sounds like crazing.
Speaker 1: Like girls like that aren't.
Speaker 3: They're never like reasonable and they're never like going to
Speaker 3: be like oh, yeah, you're right. He's the one that
Speaker 3: was cheating on me and he's bad. That girl is
Speaker 3: gonna be like, and where are you. I'm gonna fight you, right,
Speaker 3: They're going to try to fight you, like there's no
Speaker 3: rational thinking. I hooked up with a guy a few
Speaker 3: years ago, and I don't know it. It was very
Speaker 3: like normal, like like he just came over, we like
Speaker 3: had sex, and he went home. And then the next
Speaker 3: day I get like a call from my roommate that's
Speaker 3: like there's some crazy girl at our house who's like
Speaker 3: banging on the door and it's like asking for you.
Speaker 3: I was like, what the fuck? But tell them I
Speaker 3: don't live there, Lie, tell tell them to leave. I
Speaker 3: don't live there. You haven't seen me, you don't know
Speaker 3: who I am. And my roommate was like.
Speaker 1: Oh, I told her where you were or something. I
Speaker 1: was like, what the fuck back.
Speaker 3: Fortunately, they never like showed up or anything, but I
Speaker 3: remember like texting him and being like what the hell
Speaker 3: is going on?
Speaker 1: And he was like, oh, yeah, this girl.
Speaker 3: He basically gave me a very like similar Lie was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I've been like staying with my ex girlfriend and we're
Speaker 3: not together, but we like lived together. And she went
Speaker 3: through my phone and found out that I went over
Speaker 3: and saw you. I was like, you could you could
Speaker 3: on it, You could be honest, Like you can just say,
Speaker 3: like I was cheating on my girlfriend and I didn't
Speaker 3: tell you, like honestly, I like I get it, like
Speaker 3: like that's still wrong, but like I understand that, you know,
Speaker 3: you don't have to make up For some reason, guys
Speaker 3: like feel the need to like make up some kind
Speaker 3: of like story like that.
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 3: I guess it makes them feel better what they're doing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: even though it's they it's a lie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just I don't know that.
Speaker 3: That's kind of what I would compare this story to
Speaker 3: is because it's like it's something that's like just so
Speaker 3: clearly like lie, but they're just going with it anyway.
Speaker 3: And yeah, there's no way like even if I got
Speaker 3: in contact with this girl, I was like, hey, because
Speaker 3: this girl, this is like an angry Italian girl that's
Speaker 3: like came to my house to kill me. Like there's
Speaker 3: not going to be like any reasoning with that. Stop
Speaker 3: trying to guess who it is that we can talk
Speaker 3: about that later stuff. Uh yeah, we can, we can
Speaker 3: talk about that later. I don't I don't want to
Speaker 3: get this angry fucking little house of gucci ass bitch
Speaker 3: at my house again.
Speaker 1: So let's just avoid of Gucci. Let's avoid doing that
Speaker 1: for now.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's there there would have been no reasoning
Speaker 3: with me like that that like.
Speaker 2: Italian when somebody's mindset is already that the the other
Speaker 2: person is the problem and not the person who's cheating
Speaker 2: is the problem, like there's already no way to logically
Speaker 2: like it's like you're just stupid and yeah, like exactly,
Speaker 2: you're stupid, and like your boyfriend is the problem, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he called you a squatter bitch.
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do about it? I'm getting dumb,
Speaker 3: Yeah I know. Yeah, no that is like yeah, no,
Speaker 3: you're right, like that is crazy and no, I just
Speaker 3: from my experience with I don't know, little firecrackers like that,
Speaker 3: you don't want to like, I don't know, just walk away, right,
Speaker 3: just walk away and this girl's gonna drive to your
Speaker 3: house and you just don't Like I saw her Instagram
Speaker 3: and she was like posing with like guns and shit.
Speaker 3: I was like no, like, no, I don't want anything
Speaker 3: to do with this. Okay, I don't think I actually
Speaker 3: know that. Later, yeah no, it was like that was
Speaker 3: so funny. Yeah, no, you don't want you just walk away.
Speaker 3: You don't want no part of this dewey like walk
Speaker 3: away is you.
Speaker 2: Don't want anything to do with the guy, because all
Speaker 2: that's going to do is just like a lot more
Speaker 2: and more lies. Like he's gonna come up with like
Speaker 2: more and more lies all the time.
Speaker 3: I feel like, right, I mean, in a perfect world,
Speaker 3: you could reason with this girl and then you and
Speaker 3: her start up a very like sapphic relationship where you
Speaker 3: go on like a crime spree together, and that would
Speaker 3: be like starting that's like the perfect ending here, starting
Speaker 3: with robbing this guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, starting with tying him up.
Speaker 3: Robbing him you accidentally like, uh, tie him up too tight,
Speaker 3: it cuts off the circulation.
Speaker 1: He dies, You got to cover it up. And then
Speaker 1: it's an episode of p Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's you know, the movie Jawbreaker happens
Speaker 3: and uh yeah that that that would be the ideal
Speaker 3: day for this, but that's not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so.
Speaker 3: Leading there's plenty of other bisexual fish in the sea,
Speaker 3: and uh yeah, just you gotta go deadly as catch
Speaker 3: go grab a different one. She's going to I know
Speaker 3: she will.
Speaker 1: She's going she's probably doing it right now.
Speaker 2: Is she's doing it right now? And we're proud of you, Carl. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: shall we take the next one?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's set up.
Speaker 6: Hey, ladies, listen to Ohio here. So I've been looking
Speaker 6: at this place still for about two years now, starting
Speaker 6: about a week before I started hormones, and my coworkers
Speaker 6: I probably look like a fifteen year old boy who
Speaker 6: keeps getting younger, looking like Benjamin Buttons. But recently I've
Speaker 6: been suffering from success and have grown into d cups.
Speaker 6: I hide them of her jackets for the most part
Speaker 6: when I can, and nobody seems to notice, or at
Speaker 6: least nobody has mentioned them. With the summer coming up
Speaker 6: and my job requiring to the collectivity, binding doesn't really
Speaker 6: seem plausible to maintain stealth. What are the best ways
Speaker 6: to explain away suddenly having booths to coworkers? Please don't
Speaker 6: call me a boy motor, I'll lose it.
Speaker 3: Say that you're trans Yeah, the way to explain it?
Speaker 3: What do you want me to tell you? You could
Speaker 3: say that you're in the plot of a titan and
Speaker 3: you had sex with a vehicle that got you pregnant
Speaker 3: and now you've been binding, and the one day and
Speaker 3: say the baby's coming soon and you can't keep binding anymore.
Speaker 1: The fact that.
Speaker 2: You're even thinking about binding is like, girl, get a
Speaker 2: grip and just face the reality, face the Musicma.
Speaker 1: What do you mean binding? You got d cups?
Speaker 2: Bitch, I got a fucking a cup and I've been
Speaker 2: on the moons for fifteen years.
Speaker 4: Girl.
Speaker 1: Okayah, that's a mate.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, you're one of like God's chosen people and
Speaker 3: you want to bind your breasts.
Speaker 1: What are you saying? Uh? No, you gotta let those
Speaker 1: puppies fly. Yeah.
Speaker 3: This is very important to me because transit, you know,
Speaker 3: trans history is just something that's very important to me.
Speaker 3: But I'm not going to call you a boy motor
Speaker 3: because uh you're you're not a boy Well I don't know,
Speaker 3: maybe you were. But what I will say is you
Speaker 3: are not stealth. You are in the closet. Okay, now
Speaker 3: I'm in the closet recording this podcast, but in real life,
Speaker 3: I am a trans woman. Now to most people that
Speaker 3: meet me, you might consider me sealth because they assume
Speaker 3: that I'm a sis woman. Being in the closet and
Speaker 3: being stealth are two extremely different things.
Speaker 1: A mandolier.
Speaker 2: That's stealth, honey, Okay, but not being in the closet,
Speaker 2: So that's very important to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, stealth doesn't mean like stealth doesn't mean like people
Speaker 3: assume I'm my assigned gender at birds and stealth is
Speaker 3: like people assume that you're like you're you were assigned
Speaker 3: like the opposite gender birth absolutely and no one has
Speaker 3: like detected that you're trans. And stealth is like, I mean,
Speaker 3: that is something that is only bestowed to like the
Speaker 3: like highest echelon of God's Showsen children, like I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: Like Hunter Schaefer is not even someone that's like considered
Speaker 3: like sealth's because we know that she's trans. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 3: Like like that is like that's not really really I
Speaker 3: think I think Carmen's a little hung up on the
Speaker 3: use of the wa.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It drives me crazy because I see and I'm not
Speaker 2: calling you a boymotor, but I see boymotors do this
Speaker 2: all the time where they say that there's stealth and
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, honey, you're in the closet. You're denying
Speaker 2: your your authenticity. That is not the same thing as being.
Speaker 3: I mean, I understand I understand it from like safety
Speaker 3: concerns and stuff. But like me and you have talked
Speaker 3: about this because like I saw what you went through
Speaker 3: as a teenager, and it made me not want to
Speaker 3: come out because I was like, goddamn, like that looks
Speaker 3: fucking brutal.
Speaker 1: Like, but if you're already doing the mon.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying I don't blame anyone for not wanting
Speaker 3: to go through the brutality of the trans experience. However,
Speaker 3: the thing is, I'll say it's better now than it
Speaker 3: was when I was in high school. True, I mean
Speaker 3: it's it's it's annoying, and I being you're gonna have
Speaker 3: to deal with all, like, yeah, it's in it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: being trans is inconvenient. It's inconvenient having to take hormones
Speaker 3: that align with like how like your body feels like.
Speaker 3: It's inconvenient that other people are just born with lady
Speaker 3: hormones flowing through their body, right, it's inconvenient that other
Speaker 3: people are born with like the body parts that they want.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm still you know, I'm trying to Being.
Speaker 3: Trans is is inconvenient, like by definition, Yeah, but there's
Speaker 3: really no avoiding it, unfortunately, you know, unless at a
Speaker 3: certain point there's not like I mean, I think if
Speaker 3: you're fucking I think the only way to really like
Speaker 3: avoid it is to just like not transition like suppress it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: to suppress it to like a dangerous way like and
Speaker 3: I and I don't. It doesn't sound like you're suppressing
Speaker 3: it if you've been on hormones and have grown fucking
Speaker 3: fat ass cities like that's wow, Like.
Speaker 2: You've got a cunty voice. You've got big fucking d cups.
Speaker 2: I mean that voice was cunty. Okay, you've got tigle bitties.
Speaker 2: Just fucking it.
Speaker 3: Sounds like people have like noticed already from what you're saying,
Speaker 3: Like they're probably like, God, I wish this girl would
Speaker 3: just hurry up, and fucking's.
Speaker 1: That's also possible.
Speaker 3: It's very possible that they're sitting there thinking like, wow,
Speaker 3: this this is a closeted because honestly, again, I guess
Speaker 3: you have an aversion to the word boymot. But I
Speaker 3: can spot a boy motor instantly. Me and Sam were
Speaker 3: watching this game show called The Floor that is really
Speaker 3: fucking stupid, But what one of the contestants was a
Speaker 3: boy motor. Spotted it instantly, and then I did like
Speaker 3: a quick Google search and found out I was completely correct.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's not it's something that like, it's just
Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like, but do some transit,
Speaker 3: you know, come out of the closet. First of all,
Speaker 3: I think you should find someone that like if because
Speaker 3: if you're worried about like work, then you should just
Speaker 3: find someone at work that like you're close to and
Speaker 3: like tell them and like see how that goes, and
Speaker 3: they're gonna be like we've been talking about it. Maybe
Speaker 3: maybe find out like, uh, if your work has some
Speaker 3: kind of HR policy, you find out, Yeah, if you
Speaker 3: have some kind of like protections there.
Speaker 1: Maybe find out stuff like that you.
Speaker 3: Got a great losshit on your hands, you know. Maybe
Speaker 3: I mean you can transition with that lawsuit.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 3: If none of this is fucking working for you, like,
Speaker 3: maybe finds a different job. Like I'm like trying to
Speaker 3: imagine what the job would be that I would not
Speaker 3: like if I were maybe a cop. Okay, yeah, I
Speaker 3: would feel weird coming out as a transfer if you're
Speaker 3: a cop, stop listening to this show.
Speaker 2: I don't like you, Like, what's the job where I
Speaker 2: would feel uncomfortable coming out as a trans woman.
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine like what I mean, like a
Speaker 1: construction worker. Maybe, yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Guess like a very like a very macho environment. The
Speaker 3: bass player in my band was a construction worker period,
Speaker 3: serving a serving fucking cunts construction work. I know another
Speaker 3: trans woman that does construction work, but she doesn't.
Speaker 2: Trans women do cool fucking show, but she doesn't boy
Speaker 2: mode sheet. I'm sorry, she doesn't do it in the closet.
Speaker 2: She she does it as a trans woman.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm genuinely like all sincerity, Like, if they're
Speaker 3: a piece of context there that we're missing, I would
Speaker 3: love for you to reach out to us, call us.
Speaker 1: Back, even like leave a DM on Instagram or something.
Speaker 3: I will make my due diligence to like clarify that
Speaker 3: in some way if there's some context we're missing.
Speaker 1: Aside from that, it seems like you just have.
Speaker 3: An origin an aversion to the word boy motor and
Speaker 3: you're using the word stealth instead, And that's making Carmen
Speaker 3: short circuit.
Speaker 2: Well, because in my brain, you know, I'm an old
Speaker 2: I'm a bit of an old head. Okay, I'm an.
Speaker 1: Old Harmon's fifty seven years I'm fifty.
Speaker 2: Seven years old. I've been transitioning for fifteen years. I
Speaker 2: said fifteen years on moans earlier, but I met I've
Speaker 2: been transitioning for fifteen years and I've been on hormones
Speaker 2: for ten years. So I was living as a girl
Speaker 2: for a long time before I got access to hormones,
Speaker 2: which was very, very very difficult. And that was you know,
Speaker 2: that was a time before boy moting was not even
Speaker 2: like that wasn't a thing, like nobody heard of that,
Speaker 2: you know what. Like, And I'm not saying this is
Speaker 2: the better way, and this.
Speaker 1: Is I'm sure that some people did do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure people did. But like that means like
Speaker 2: typically that means you're on hormones and that you're.
Speaker 1: But that's what this person's discussing.
Speaker 3: I know they're on hormone, they're on hormones, but they're
Speaker 3: still identifying as a as a as a boy in
Speaker 3: real life. I mean, baby, you have like literally two
Speaker 3: options here and the same with a lot of questions
Speaker 3: we get, Yeah, like you literally have just two options.
Speaker 3: Like it's like you either come out and tell everyone
Speaker 3: your trans and you've been taking hormones for a while
Speaker 3: and hear my big old titties is scary, Like, there's
Speaker 3: no fucking way around that.
Speaker 1: It's coming out as scary.
Speaker 2: Unless you just start, unless you just move somewhere else,
Speaker 2: start over a new life with a yeah, like, which
Speaker 2: is what people used to do back in the day.
Speaker 2: But we don't have to do that anymore. It's twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four. You should be able to come out in
Speaker 2: your workplace, be a trans woman in your workplace, deal
Speaker 2: with whatever kind of strife may come, and just know
Speaker 2: that it's going to get better.
Speaker 3: You know, I just want to reiterate I do understand
Speaker 3: not wanting to deal with that. I do, But it
Speaker 3: sounds like you have already taken a lot of steps
Speaker 3: towards like I don't know, it's it sounds like this
Speaker 3: is kind of.
Speaker 1: The last hurdle for you.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, like you've already like done like yeah, like Carmen said,
Speaker 3: your voice is cunty, I'm sure you look hot, Like
Speaker 3: I'm sure Like if people have commented on you like
Speaker 3: reverse aging, like I mean, it sounds like.
Speaker 2: A discreet way of them being like, oh, so, what's
Speaker 2: your HRT regimen? You know, because literally no, since people
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, they know what SPIRO is, they
Speaker 2: know what estradle is. They know what they know all
Speaker 2: this shit, you know what I mean. So they're probably
Speaker 2: just well.
Speaker 3: I don't know if i'd give them that much credit,
Speaker 3: but they're they're there. I think they are acutely aware
Speaker 3: of being hyperbolic. But yees, some things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I've been very hyperbolic. I'm sorry. I am sympathetic.
Speaker 3: I don't mean to say that I'm unsympathetic, but as
Speaker 3: a trans woman who you just have to understand, as
Speaker 3: a trans woman who was a trans girl before she
Speaker 3: got hormones, it's an experience I cannot personally relate to.
Speaker 1: But I think that too.
Speaker 3: H Yeah, I want to give you like some credit,
Speaker 3: like like I think a lot what a thing A
Speaker 3: lot of people don't realize about you, Carmen. Is that
Speaker 3: like you you did like yeah, like you went through
Speaker 3: like hell, Like you went through something that like a
Speaker 3: lot of trans people nowadays like don't have to go through.
Speaker 3: I don't think they should have to. They shouldn't have to.
Speaker 1: No, you're right, Yeah, you're right, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 3: So I understand the like point of yeah, I know,
Speaker 3: I understand that you don't think that they have to
Speaker 3: and maybe like looking at like the modern like trans
Speaker 3: landscape and like thinking like, I don't know, like that
Speaker 3: it would be so much easier for you if you
Speaker 3: were like that age now exactly, you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: instead of like the age that you were.
Speaker 1: When you when you came out exactly.
Speaker 3: And I understand having that kind of like like perspective,
Speaker 3: and I feel like a lot of like younger trans
Speaker 3: people might not like understand that as much. I'm sure
Speaker 3: there's like I like, I know there's bullying, and I
Speaker 3: know there's bitch I'm I'm a fucking bartender at like
Speaker 3: a restaurant and I transitioned like in front of the
Speaker 3: public in the South in Georgia, and it wasn't fucking
Speaker 3: easy for me either. And there's like regularly times where
Speaker 3: like I like want to like publicly kill myself at
Speaker 3: work because I am so like upset with how I'm treated. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and that probably is not something you want to hear. Sorry,
Speaker 3: I just I don't. I just keep coming back to
Speaker 3: like it seems like this is going to be like
Speaker 3: the last hurdle for you. Yeah, And it's either you
Speaker 3: come out or you don't. Like I don't really see
Speaker 3: or third option u D transition.
Speaker 2: Or fourth option fourth option which I gave, which is
Speaker 2: moved to another state, change your name, change your identity. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, you're just a whole new person, which is
Speaker 2: what they had to do back in the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 1: But we don't do that anymore.
Speaker 3: And out of these four options, none of them are
Speaker 3: particularly easy, but I think one of them, I think
Speaker 3: one of them makes the most sense.
Speaker 1: Yes, that has come out.
Speaker 3: That's that's probably where I would leave it. Yeah, so yeah, sorry,
Speaker 3: we're gonna have to give you some tough love on
Speaker 3: that one.
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry about that. But I don't know.
Speaker 3: If there's anything we're missing from this, Please send us
Speaker 3: a DM leave another voicemail, even if you don't want
Speaker 3: us like talk about it in public, Like I would
Speaker 3: appreciate knowing that and just knowing that we didn't like
Speaker 3: hurt your feelings because we are like trying to help,
Speaker 3: Like even though this is like a funny show, like
Speaker 3: I always have trans people on my side, Like I
Speaker 3: don't know, I always want to be on the side
Speaker 3: of trans people, and I do genuinely want to help
Speaker 3: trans people.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and Janie makes me a better person for
Speaker 2: all of those reasons. But I just want to say,
Speaker 2: you know, I get passionate because I care, okay, and
Speaker 2: I hear this stuff, and I get so frustrated because
Speaker 2: I just want to be like, girl, you can fucking
Speaker 2: do this.
Speaker 1: You know what, you can do it, You can do this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A lot of this tough loves.
Speaker 3: Comes from cubs, from us being like, bitch, you can
Speaker 3: do it, even if it's tough, even if it's hard.
Speaker 1: You sound us.
Speaker 3: You have bigger tips than us.
Speaker 1: That's true. You have bigger tids than both of us together.
Speaker 3: Okay, so come on, yeah, I'm kidding. No, she did
Speaker 3: deserve that one though. No, but we love you, and uh,
Speaker 3: we'd love to. We'd love to, we'd love an update
Speaker 3: on this one.
Speaker 2: So thank you, And with that we'll close out this
Speaker 2: week's episode of Beauty Translated. And if you have any questions, comments,
Speaker 2: or concerns, you can call us at six seven eight
Speaker 2: five six one two seven eight five Yes, and please
Speaker 2: leave us a rating and review over on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2: We would gracial greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, stomp out the haters over there.
Speaker 3: Dump them out, all right, bye, y'all, Stay beautiful thank goodbye,
Speaker 3: Stay beautiful.
Speaker 2: I love you, AH, thank you for listening to Beauty Translated.
Speaker 2: Beauty Translated is hosted by me Carmen Laurent and Jamie Danger.
Speaker 3: Produced by Kurt Aaron and Jess Krinchitch so special thanks
Speaker 3: to Ali Perry and Ali Cancor.
Speaker 1: Our theme music is done.
Speaker 3: By Aaron Kaufman and Beauty Translated is proud to be
Speaker 3: a part of the Outspoken network from iHeart Podcasts. For
Speaker 3: more iHeart podcast visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts.