1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to Carol Markwood Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: My guest today is Dominic Green. 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Dominic is a Wall Street Journal contributor, Washington Examiner, and 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Jewish Chronicle columnist, and a regular at Free Press and 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: the London Telegraph. 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: A contributing editor at The Critic. 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: He used to edit the Spectators US Edition, which is 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: where we met. He's also the author of five books. 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: So nice to have you on, Dominic. 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 3: It's lovely to be at Carol. 11 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: Five books and all the rest of that. That just 12 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot, do you. 13 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 3: Well, if you don't have a proper job, you know, 14 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 3: there's plenty of time. 15 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 2: It sounds like you have like six proper jobs. 16 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 3: Actually, I've had them in sequence, and I've had I 17 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 3: think three or four careers, one after the other, one 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 3: fiatco has led to the next. 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: Which has been your favorite so far? 20 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 3: Well, the favorite part far is the current one, and 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 3: I've alway tried to make sure that was the case. 22 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 3: I worked as a musician for I turned to writing, 23 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 3: and then I became an academic for a stretch. So 24 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: great was my urge to do as little work as possible, 25 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 3: that's right. And then you know, a return to writing, 26 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 3: and I do love doing it. To be honest, I'm 27 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: extremely lucky to have a job that I most days 28 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: wake up and can't wait to start with, especially because 29 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: that means you finished by lunchtime. 30 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: That's right, yes, and all about that. What kind of 31 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 2: music did you play? 32 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: Well? I come from a family of jazz musicians, so 33 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: when I tell people this, they think that it was 34 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 3: an act of rebellion, but actually it was deeply conformist. 35 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 3: If it had been before the modern age, it would 36 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 3: be completely normal to say, you know, I went into 37 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 3: the family business. My grandfather was a cabinet maker. His 38 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 3: grandfather was, and would you like to buy a cabinet? 39 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 3: And it so happened that I served my apprenticeship playing 40 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: jazz as my father and grandfather and brother had done. 41 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. What made you do that? 42 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: Mainly the hours and the money. Also there was a 43 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: limit I think to how good I was at it. 44 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 3: I loved it, actually, and I do and I do 45 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: love music. I always wanted to be a writer from 46 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 3: an early age, but I always played music, and I 47 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 3: figured that it's like sports, that you should do it 48 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 3: while you have the knees and most of your hair 49 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: and teeth, right, and so I because it is a 50 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 3: young man's game, and so I gave it my best. 51 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: But I never thought I was I played jazz guitar. 52 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 3: I was under no illusions about the limits of my ability. 53 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 3: I was a good rhythm guitar player and occasionally able 54 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 3: to play a moderately interesting solo. And so by the 55 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: time I'd kind of got to that and done it 56 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 3: a lot, I realized in my late twenties. Really I thought, well, 57 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: I could carry on doing this until I'm broken down 58 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 3: old hack, which in this game will happen in about 59 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 3: three years time, or I can then actually be serious 60 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: about and pursue, you know, writing, which I knew had 61 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 3: been waiting for me. I didn't want to spend my 62 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 3: twenties in a library and the research library. So in 63 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 3: that sense it was a good idea. 64 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: So how did you make that leap to writing? 65 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 3: Well, actually, I left the country because it's like, you know, 66 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: I think when people stop being alcoholics and drug addicts, 67 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 3: the first thing they have to do is break the 68 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 3: connection to everyone they know. So my wife newly married wife, 69 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: and she grew up in Sweden, and i'd been there 70 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 3: and so I thought, right, I was in London. I thought, 71 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: let's go to Sweden. This is a great place to 72 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: get away to. So and I, of course I've forgotten. 73 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: Of course it's nose For months on end, it's freezing, 74 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: you can't go outside. So I got a lot done, 75 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: and every morning, in order to get myself into the 76 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: frame of mind, I would get dressed and put on 77 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 3: a three piece suit and tie and then go to 78 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 3: the office, which was the table in the corner of 79 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: the living room. And rather like with music, you know, 80 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 3: the wood shedding, I shedded wood in Sweden for a 81 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: year or so and just wrote every day, pretty much 82 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: around the clock. And I was still commuting to England 83 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 3: to play gigs and so on, but basically did that. 84 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: And at the end of it, of course i'd rendered 85 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: myself unemployable. It in the second field, and you know, 86 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 3: had the makings of a career and started. 87 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: Writing What was the big break? 88 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: I'm still waiting for that. Really, I thought this show was, well, 89 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 3: I have some bad news. Yeah, damn it, it's happened again. 90 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: Now. 91 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 3: The big break I think was this. I'd always obviously, 92 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 3: I mean, everyone loves Shakespeare and I was as one 93 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 3: does on a snowy afternoon in Scandinavia leaping through a 94 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 3: volume of the Encyclopedia Judaeica, and I came across this 95 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 3: story which seemed to connect to the background of the 96 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 3: Merchant of Venice. And I looked into it, and there's 97 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: a real life story behind the Shylock character and even 98 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 3: the elements of the plot in it. And I dug 99 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,239 Speaker 3: into it, and no one really knew what had happened, 100 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: And because it was Shakespeare, I was able to convince 101 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 3: the publisher this was the kind of thing that they 102 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: would go for, and I was able to piece together 103 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: this mystery. And after that I think I could claim 104 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 3: to a you know, like a serious historian rather than 105 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 3: as a musician, because musicians are always doing things like that, 106 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 3: you know, they they tend to be very like self educating, 107 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 3: speculative people. I remember having a fascinating conversation with the 108 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 3: group I was touring with once we'd ended up in 109 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 3: Rimini in Italy, which you'll know from these Fellini movies 110 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: about his childhood because he's from them. We're sitting on 111 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 3: the beach and we had the afternoon off and we 112 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 3: had a very long conversation out who built the pyramids 113 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: and whether it was the aliens or not. These are 114 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 3: the kind of historical speculations the Raticians are having all 115 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 3: the time. So anyway, because of this Shakespeare thing and 116 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 3: that going to a respectable publisher, I was able then, 117 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 3: I think, to sort of fob people off with the 118 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 3: notion that I might actually be a reliable historian. So 119 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 3: that was a book, that was a book, and that 120 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 3: led to another one, and then I. 121 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: Thought, well, what are the names? 122 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 3: Come on? Well, that was called The Double Life of 123 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 3: Dr Lopez, you know, And then I did another one, 124 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 3: and then the agent I had in America said, well, 125 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: you know, we decided at that point we're going to 126 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: raise a family in the States. And because I'd been 127 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: there as a musician, I came back. I said, this 128 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: is this is a place to be. Yeah, and the 129 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: agent you've got to have a credential, You've got to 130 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 3: have a perch. And I said, what do you mean. 131 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 3: He said, when everyone in America's got credential, you can't 132 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 3: just turn up and it's not like in England. Well, yeah, no, 133 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: it's true. It's true. People about that. 134 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 2: I think there are there's more in the UK, Okay, 135 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: we'll get into that. 136 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, this is an interesting quest. I mean I 137 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: read that once one in three dentists in Italy had 138 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 3: a fraudulent thing on the doors, saying that they the horrification. Right, 139 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,559 Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever had dangerous in Italy. 140 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: I wouldn't recommend it. I wouldn't recommend it in England either. Actually, 141 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: now I think about it, although you won't have to 142 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: queue in England. So when England is like Connections, it's like, 143 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: oh I went to school with with Binkie, and oh 144 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: I was at university with Monty, and oh he's a 145 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 3: good chat write a book about Shakespeare. I think there's 146 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: an element of that. Well, in the States, it's definitely 147 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 3: like this man fixed my feelings and you know he's 148 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: really qualified. I recommend it. I found that when we 149 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: moved to the States, people are amazing. They would they 150 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 3: would recommend the best person they knew for all the 151 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 3: stuff you needed. So we had like lists of like 152 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: you know, dentists. No, we keep them to ourselves. 153 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you hold, that's called gatekeeping. 154 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: That's called war Yeah. Yeah, goes back. So anyway, so 155 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 3: I thought I was going to get a credential and 156 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: I thought, how do you get into the United States 157 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: if you don't swim? And the answer is that you 158 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: go through the university system. And I am one of 159 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: those people who became an American citizen thanks to, you know, 160 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: getting a doctorate, which is the most useless thing there 161 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 3: is in the world. So we're just giving out, you know, 162 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: you weren't giving anything out care. I had to pay. 163 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 3: I paid good money for this. So that's that's how 164 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: it happened. And so when I was in universities, of course, 165 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: I thought, this is fantastic. These people work two three 166 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: days a week, they get six figure salaries, they spent 167 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: half their lives their second homes in Vermont. I'll have 168 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 3: some of this. So I'd write academic research papers. 169 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: I was. 170 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: I was very you know, the eighteenth century political history 171 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 3: is fascinating stuff. So I was doing that merrily, and 172 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 3: every now and then, and this is in Harvard, someone 173 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: would take me aside and say something like, we're never 174 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: going to employ you. You know, you're far too right wing. 175 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: And you've also you've also published, and I was like, well, 176 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: you know, the church, you know, accepts nuns who repent, right, 177 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 3: you know, that's allowed prostitutes who repent. 178 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: As far you've got I promise right exactly. 179 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: What I said, But you do you can't accept someone 180 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 3: who's written for money and they're like, no, it's not good, 181 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 3: not good for us. So yeah, and I suppose I 182 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: can say this now. I mean the great Ruth Weiss, 183 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 3: who was one of the very few people who bothered 184 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: to give me some good advice as I floundered about 185 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 3: I had no idea. I was new in the country, 186 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 3: said you know, do you know what a public intellectual is? 187 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: And I was like, not really, And she explained that 188 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 3: this was somebody who basically, you know, was a professional 189 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 3: smart ass. If I say that, and I was like 190 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: that I can do. 191 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, You're like, this seems like a job for me. 192 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 3: And the great thing about America, and it is a 193 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: truly great thing, is that if you feed yourself into 194 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: the vast machinery, it'll cough you out the other end 195 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 3: having found something useful for you to do. It really 196 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: does work. And it was what I'd always wanted to 197 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: do in a way. And my wife tells me that 198 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: when we met, I said, you know, I want a job, 199 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 3: or I tell people I think you know, and she said, 200 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 3: I followed around the house for like ten years giving 201 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 3: her op eds, you know, off the cuff. That's enough 202 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: of that, and they really so when I actually started 203 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: off edding for a living, she was greatly relieved, you know, 204 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 3: get all with her life. That was only ten years ago. Actually, 205 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: I was in my mid forties when I took up journalists. 206 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: Seriously, are you in your mid fifties? 207 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: Yea, I am. Actually I'm fifty five years old. But 208 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: I have the kidneys of a seventy year old. Oh 209 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 3: he doesn't need them. Yeah, and I have half death 210 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 3: from it as well. Actually, this is another thing, but 211 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: I yeah, no, I did so. I was a musician 212 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 3: and then and then I was the kind of writer 213 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 3: in England, and then I was an academic in the States, 214 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 3: and then and then I became a writer and a 215 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 3: journalist in the States, and I wasn't We moved back 216 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: to London about a year ago to be with our 217 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: children when they're in university. And because I taught in 218 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 3: American universities, I know what goes on. I'm not having it. 219 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 3: You're like, no, it's a total scam. Don't be fooled. 220 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 3: And when I get back here, of course, I meet 221 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 3: all my peers in the British media and they're terrible. 222 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 3: They're terrible hacks. So i was made into a journalist 223 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 3: in America, and I'm very pleased I was because there 224 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: are actually high standards, you know, places like the Wall 225 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 3: Street Journal, right, I learned the craft of it. They 226 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: are impeccable and devoted. 227 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: This is a very fascinating story. So what's next to 228 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: live it? 229 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 3: I can tell you I'm enjoying. 230 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: It very much. I'm enjoying the retelling of you living 231 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: it right. What comes next? 232 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm hoping that I can afford to 233 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 3: write another book, because it is like having a yacht, 234 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 3: you know, you just pour the money into the water. 235 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: I'm surprised that people want to do more than one. 236 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: I've written one book. I think it is my final book. 237 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: It did very well, but I never need to do 238 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: that again. 239 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 3: Each time I've done it, it's been from a thick 240 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: twisted in a compulsion. Yes, so I'm you know, I 241 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: wait until it happens. I mean, because it is. It's 242 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 3: a grueling, awful process and it beats your life up. 243 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 3: And you know, I worked out that the last one. 244 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 3: Jonathan Off took about three years of labor. I think 245 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 3: it came in about fifteen cents a word, you know, 246 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: by the time I'd talked about it and promoted it 247 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 3: and so on. So it is a labor of love, 248 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 3: except you hate it. 249 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I mean, but it's you can write through 250 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,479 Speaker 1: one hundred words and have it be in the newspaper 251 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: tomorrow and that's you know, the end of that. 252 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: That's so much more gratifying. 253 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I have to say, I think most ideas 254 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 3: could be put into seven eight hundred words into a column. 255 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 3: There's no you know, we we think that there has 256 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 3: to be as. 257 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: Sixty thousands or even a tweet, you know. 258 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, people used to. I mean, I'm a bit of 259 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: a Victorian, as you can probably tell from the background. 260 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: But the Victorians went for these things where they'd like, 261 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to write a short edic and they knock 262 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 3: out thirty thousand words and that's the equivalent of a 263 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 3: mini book, like those little books you find on the 264 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 3: table in the book store. And I'm pleased to see 265 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 3: that they're coming back as people are losing their attention 266 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 3: span and can't hold it together to read, you know, 267 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: three hundred pages because most ideas related books should be 268 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 3: able also to be compressed like that. So I'm hoping 269 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 3: to write. What I mean is, I'm hoping to get 270 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 3: paid the same amount but write a much shorter book. 271 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: I like that idea a lot. 272 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: Actually, I only wrote half a book because I had 273 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: a co author. That's another thing you should maybe consider. 274 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: Then you only have to write, you know. 275 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 3: Do you write the front end or the back? Is 276 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 3: like being a pantomime horse. 277 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 2: It actually is. We switched off chapters, so that's good. 278 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 3: It's been done before. You know, Joseph Conrad did that 279 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 3: with Ford Maddox Ford in fiction and it worked. Not 280 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 3: that you were writing fiction. I know it was real. 281 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, but no, I you know, highly recommend 282 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: fifty percent of the work for one hundred percent of 283 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: the pay. 284 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 3: You know, I'm willing to do that. Yeah. 285 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 286 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: back on the Carol mark Away Show. 287 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 2: What is the thing that you're most proud of in 288 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: your life? 289 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 3: The thing I'm most proud of in my life is 290 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 3: that my wife Maya and I got our three daughters 291 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 3: to adulthood as Jewish girls through COVID. The madness all 292 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: of it and that they turned out fantastically. I'm sure 293 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 3: a lot of people on your show say this, at 294 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: least all of them who wish to stay married'd probably 295 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 3: say it. But that, genuinely is one of the very 296 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: few things I'm proud of. I'm not proud of you. 297 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 3: I don't think it's difficult to knock out a few 298 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: hundred words or say something. I mean, most of what 299 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 3: I write is being is mocking politicians, which is of 300 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: course like field clubbing. It's hardly you know, arduous, challenging. 301 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: But being a dad, especially to girls, and having grown 302 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 3: up in a house of boys, being a dad was 303 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 3: you know, the hardest and obviously the most rewarding and 304 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 3: meaningful thing I've ever done. So not having totally bungled 305 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 3: it is the thing I'm most proud of. 306 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: So what's your tip on that? How do you not 307 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 2: totally bungle it? 308 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: Do it? 309 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 3: Hold? 310 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: That's not bad? 311 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 3: No, not really, take advice, Learn from your wife, listen 312 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: to your children. I mean I struggle to listen to anybody. 313 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 3: I'm a lecturer around time. But it's an ongoing lesson 314 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 3: in the limits of intellect, because having intellect is commercially useful, 315 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 3: valued and being a specialist is how people get on, 316 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 3: you know. But these there are basic emotional things which 317 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 3: are totally different, require a very different way of understanding 318 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: people and what your purpose in life is. So having 319 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 3: some have some humility, as people frequently say to me, 320 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: that's that's that's the only I don't know. If I've 321 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 3: done it, you have to ask them how well I've 322 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 3: done it? 323 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: But you did it well, so you know, we want 324 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: to know how you did it. 325 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: I tried to make it fun. 326 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: My eldest is going to be sixteen tomorrow, so I 327 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: might you know, they're still in development. Any you know, 328 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: tips are always welcome. 329 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I'm just just keep failing better. 330 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: I mean, you know if there is a wider lesson 331 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 3: as well. I mean, you know, keep failing better if 332 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 3: someone because you try and try and sometimes you get 333 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: it and sometimes you don't. But the next day you're 334 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 3: continually you know, getting another. 335 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 2: Chance, given another chart. 336 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, not giving up I think is you know, 337 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 3: I don't think I have that many life lessons to it. 338 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 3: I think most of my life has been a terrible warning, 339 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 3: you know, not giving up. I mean all those lines 340 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 3: about you know, the cliches. You know, it doesn't matter 341 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 3: whether you get knocked down, it's how fast you back 342 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: on your feet and all of that. Those things actually 343 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 3: are the true things. The race belongs, not to the swift. 344 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, give us a five year out prediction, and it 345 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: could be about anything at all. 346 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 3: Well we are I mean, I could say the world. 347 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 3: I can start with the world. We're in a colossal 348 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: shift and the next five years will be more chaos. 349 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 3: The United States is going through one of its periodic 350 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: every eighty years or so dispute. So for what kind 351 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: of country it will be and who gets. 352 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: To run it is that every eight years. 353 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 3: Eighty every eighty at this point every ten minutes, from 354 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 3: the revolutionary of the Civil War, to the remaking under 355 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 3: FDR with a new Deal and the war production that 356 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 3: reshaped the economy, and then to the crisis of post 357 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 3: twenty two thousand and eight in particularly twenty sixteen America, 358 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 3: and the struggle which is going on now to redefine it. 359 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 3: So in many ways, it'spite parenting. There are very good 360 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 3: days in very bad days, but that's going to continue 361 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 3: because we haven't reached a settlement over who gets to 362 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,479 Speaker 3: own it and the truth is much as we love democracy, 363 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 3: the winner takes all in this kind of thing, whoever 364 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 3: wins is going to drive their rivals out over the 365 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: Potomac and into the wilds, you know. And that hasn't 366 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: yet happened, and it may yet swing back and forth 367 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 3: for a while. So internally the chaos will continue. So 368 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 3: he as a historian in that there's never any good news. Externally, 369 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: it will as well, because there is this colossal shift, 370 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 3: the return of Asia as the center of the world 371 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 3: economy for the first time in two hundred years. So 372 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 3: you know, that's the bad news, Okay. The good news 373 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: is that we remain free to shape our lives much 374 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 3: as we always were, and the technology which is turning 375 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 3: things upside down also gives us opportunities to do things 376 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 3: that previously were impossible. I, for instance, can sit on 377 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 3: my backside in a holiday resort and file copy from 378 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 3: beneath the palm trees. This was impossible in the old 379 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 3: days at all. So in somestance, you know, we live 380 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 3: in an age of miracles and an age of idiots, 381 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 3: and I suspect that is always how it's been. Personally, 382 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: in the next five years, I just hope to stay 383 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 3: you know, on the vertical axis, right, so every day 384 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 3: is a blessing, I hear, Yeah I am. I'm a 385 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 3: skeptical optimist. 386 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 2: A skeptical optimist. 387 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, that just British. It doesn't help. I mean, well, 388 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 3: as a British Jew, I have a double dose of 389 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 3: you know, pessimism is is like inevitable twice over. But no, 390 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 3: I generally wake up with the spring in my well. 391 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 3: I don't actually I wake up in a foul mood 392 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 3: until I've had an entire pot of tea. But generally, 393 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 3: I you know, with for a while I work, I 394 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 3: feel there's a lot to be grateful for. And as 395 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 3: I said, as long as we have a sense that 396 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: we can make an impact and shape our lives for 397 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 3: the better, then you know that's good. 398 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: How do you feel about being a British Jew? And 399 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: I know this wasn't you know, this isn't a political show. 400 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 3: I just well, I'm a British American Jew. Okay, I've 401 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 3: got many. 402 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 2: Hats I'm going for you. 403 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 3: How's that working out? Well? I mean, Britain at the 404 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 3: moment is coming apart. There's you know, And I was 405 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 3: talking with someone who worked at a big technology company 406 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: who was passing through London a couple of weeks ago, 407 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 3: and he said, well, you're on the front line here. 408 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: And it's true. The front line of the battle for 409 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 3: free speech is going on in Britain because the type 410 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 3: of legal regime which is coming in in Europe is 411 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 3: designed and with seeing it is signed to suppress free speech, 412 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 3: especially online. And there's only twenty miles between you know, 413 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 3: England and France, and that is the frontier. And to 414 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 3: my mind, and also I believe to many people in 415 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 3: the Trump administration, the free speech of Britain is a 416 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 3: national security interest. In the United States. We're part of 417 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: the same culture, part of the same economic, technological systems. 418 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 3: So there's that, you know, there is a tough fight 419 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 3: going on to defend the most basic freedoms. There's also 420 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: a fight going on for Jews to remain part of 421 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: British society. It's no more or less than that. And 422 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 3: to be honest, I saw it in Cambridge, Massachusetts, just 423 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: as much as I see it in London. There is 424 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 3: a you know, a coordinated pressure coming from left wing 425 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 3: groups and Muslims in effect, who don't want Jews to 426 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 3: have any kind of expression or influence or equality in 427 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 3: their society, and you see it very you know, it's 428 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 3: worse in France, but you see it very explicitly in 429 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 3: Blue State America, just as we see it in London. 430 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 3: My feeling is when people ask, and you know, they say, 431 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 3: is it like I see on X or Twitter? 432 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 2: Yeah? 433 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 3: And it is actually yeah, But it's also more than that. 434 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 3: You know, no one says I, here's a lovely clip 435 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: of nothing happening. You know, here's a shot of me 436 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 3: walking into a still undisturbed. That's not how it works. 437 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 3: It is bad, but it's the same. Actually. You know, 438 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 3: in Boston I used to do security duty outside of synagogue, 439 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 3: you know, my tilm are inside, and in London the 440 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 3: same occurs. So it's one thing about the world that 441 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 3: we now live in it, for good or bad, it's 442 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 3: much the same everywhere in that sense, the end of 443 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 3: thirty years of the biggest population movements in human history. Yeah, 444 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 3: you know, this happens everywhere. So the other question they say, 445 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 3: is England done? And I say, to that help, no, 446 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 3: I don't think it is. I don't think we're only 447 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 3: now getting you know, without sounding Churchillian, And it is 448 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 3: the law that everyone from Britain eventually sounds Chertillian, right, Yeah, 449 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 3: only at the end of the beginning as regards the 450 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: struggle for the future of Britain, and the beginning of 451 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 3: the end is some way off yet. And I don't 452 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 3: think that the English will consent to being turned out 453 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 3: of their own country. Between effect is what this will mean. 454 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 3: And I don't think Americans will either. I don't think 455 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 3: even the French will. 456 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: Well, I'm rooting for you in England. I'm rooting for 457 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: the English and the Scottish. I lived in Scotland for a. 458 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: Period of time. I love the UK. 459 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: I hope that things end up in a more positive days. 460 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 3: I hope they do as well your I like. 461 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: Your commentary on it. I feel like it is very optimistic. 462 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,479 Speaker 3: Well. I feel one of the good things has come 463 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: out of this, which hasn't really been spoken about enough, 464 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 3: is that the People's plural, or the British Isles plural, 465 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 3: are understanding that they do actually have more in common 466 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 3: than divides them. Because the norm is that the Scots 467 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: hate the English, and the English hate the Irish and 468 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: the Irish. It just goes around and around the mount Well. 469 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 3: In fact, we're like eighty more than eighty five ninety 470 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 3: million people in a tiny space England. 471 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: They don't all unite to hate the Jews, I think no. 472 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 3: I don't think they do. I don't think they will. 473 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 3: They're got more breathing problems. But you know, England is 474 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 3: the size of New York State with a lot more 475 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 3: people in it, and so there is a positive understanding 476 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: as well developing. Because people's understanding of themselves develops anyone regardless, 477 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 3: then you can't fix it. It's always moving in that way. 478 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 3: So don't despair. But then again, don't be totally passive 479 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 3: as well, is my message. And I think this goes 480 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 3: for my fellow Americans as much as my fellow Brits. 481 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 3: If you don't like it, do something, change something, and 482 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 3: most of all, say something, because if we are bullied 483 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 3: into being unable to speak our minds, and we have 484 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 3: the total right to reasonably speak our minds to anyone 485 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 3: about anything, if we are bullied into silence, then we 486 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 3: will have only ourselves to blame, or rather, our children 487 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 3: and grandchildren will only have us to blame for it. 488 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 489 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: I have loved this conversation. Dominic, thank you so much 490 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: for coming on the show. Leave us here with your 491 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: best tip or my listeners on how they can improve 492 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 1: their lives. 493 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 3: Well, old stuff, I would say. For a long time, 494 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 3: you know, we associated technological progress in particular with having 495 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 3: a better life. Actually it turns out that's not true. 496 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 3: Nobody says, why should I listen to Beethoven because he 497 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 3: died two hundred. Actually people do, and they're completely stupid. Sure, 498 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 3: you know, part from the complete idiots. We listen to 499 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 3: Beethoven most because they're great. They really nailed it, right, 500 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 3: that's it. You don't say Shakespeare dickens, you know, I 501 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 3: mean you don't anymore? Yeah, right, exactly. So maybe with music, film, 502 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 3: the popular arts of the twentieth century, maybe you've reached 503 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: a moment like that, and maybe the stuff that's being 504 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 3: put out now is just one of those fallow periods 505 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 3: when it's really not worth bothering with. If you have 506 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: three or four hours, rather than reading a kind of 507 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 3: trendy literary fiction novel, find something old and read that 508 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: because there will be vitamins and nutrients in it. So 509 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 3: my advice to people is, don't be ashamed to be old, unfashionable, 510 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 3: and go for quality of content, because you know, what 511 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 3: we call Western fiev is one of the greatest, probably 512 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 3: the greatest, most varied storehouse of entertainment and knowledge that's 513 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 3: been amassed. And it's a great privilege if you're in 514 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 3: a position like me that you can spend your days 515 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 3: digging around in it and talking about it to people. 516 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 3: So that's what I would say to people, is, you know, 517 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: embrace the depths and the heights of the civilization you've 518 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: been lucky enough to be born into because it's yours. 519 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 3: And if you don't do that again, what are you 520 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 3: going to pass on your DVD collection of friends? I mean, 521 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: you know, what else is there? 522 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: I love it? 523 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: Go back to basics. He is Dominic Green. Check them 524 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: out in the Wall Street Journal. Thank you so much, 525 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,719 Speaker 1: Dominic for coming on. 526 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 3: Thank you Carol,