WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Bennington Triangle 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.120 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by the dingo 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:07.440 that might have eaten a baby. Instead, it's brought to 0:00:07.480 --> 0:00:12.120 you by crime Con. That's Friday June nine through Sunday 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:17.840 June seventeen in Indianapolis. We're going to be there. Uh, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:19.680 lots of other people are going to be there. K 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.520 nine search dogs are gonna be there. You might be 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.720 able to pet them. It's possible. For tickets or more information, 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:28.640 you can go to crime con dot com and when 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 you're purchasing your tickets, if you use the promo code 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.720 sideways twenty, you'll get off your tickets. So that's crime 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:50.720 con dot com Sideways twenty. We'll see you there thinking sideways. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:55.720 I don't know stories of things we simply don't know 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.960 the answer to. Well, hi there, and welcome to an 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:04.479 other episode of Thinking Sudways. I'm Joe, joined as always 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:14.280 by Steve and exactly, Devin and E V Y I 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:25.000 z k W autostrophe L y I sweet. All right, Yeah, 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.400 that's why that is always messing it up. Yeah, I 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.920 got okay, all right, Well back to the important part 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:36.520 of the mystery, which is uh, yeah, well that's important. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.600 But we talked about that on Facebook. Two, let's talk 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.440 about this week's mystery, Yeah, which is there's a strange 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.840 geographical patch of area in the northeastern United States where 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.200 people just vanish, don't don't do exactly. Some people call 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.720 it the Bennington Triangle, although that was actually kind of 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.920 a recent appellation. I think that happened in the nineties. 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.200 Somebody actually tagged at a se Bennington trying, which is 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.080 long after people stopped disappearing there. Actually. But by the way, 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.760 I shout out to Nicole Hei Nicole, because she suggested 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.520 this one. Nicole. Yeah, by the way, technically I think 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:14.160 people are still being said to disappear in this triangle. Well, 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:15.799 I think the most recent one I saw was two 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.400 thousand eleven. Oh you're talking about Yeah, I know how 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.320 you're talking about that seventeen year old kid. Yeah yeah, 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.080 but he was like he was actually from like clear 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:28.639 across the state over like Rattleborough or someone like that. Listen, 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.079 you can't confine the boundaries of this triangle justice one 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.359 geographic area. Yeah, sorry, you kind of like and there's 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.720 enough you can't handle the geography, Okay, I gotta I 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.359 gotta be more fluid in my thinking. I get what 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:46.400 you're saying, yeah, there's actually there's five classic disappearances that 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.240 always get lumped in with these, and one of these 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.560 is actually kind of another one is actually kind of 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.399 far away too. Yeah, but oh well we'll talk. Let's 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:55.560 let's deal with it here. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna start 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:57.720 this off kind of randomly. We'll start with the most 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:02.360 fascinating one, because this was the appearance of James Edward Tedford, 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:09.120 who vanished off a bus. Yeah. Now, at least it's 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:13.359 not Edward Edward Tedford. But and I just got just 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.080 a circular whose name was Edward Edwards is Edward W. Edwards, 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:18.800 which I thought was kind of weird unless his middle 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:20.880 name was maybe Ward. I think I worked with a 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.880 guy whose name was Edward Edwards. Might have been the 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:28.040 same guy, hopefully not. Yeah, but yeah, sorry, so so 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.400 ed ted Oh yeah, yeah, so James ed ted He 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.760 vanished off a bus somewhere between eight St. Albans, Vermont 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:39.600 and Bennington, Vermont. Geographically speaking, they are at the north 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:44.240 and south south ends of the states. Respect Yeah, I'll 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.440 give you a quick background on James Tedfordum, he was 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.480 born it's believed around eighteen eighty four and about the 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.400 time he disappeared, he would have been in his late sixties. Uh. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.920 He had actually been conscripted apparently for World War Two. 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.440 You've done like two different tours. Is that sounds right 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.080 something like that. Yeah. He I don't imagine they had 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:04.640 him out there like you know, and you know, in 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.040 the infantry or anything because of his age. But picking 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.280 stripted a lot of people who were like well passed 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.120 the standard military Asian World War two. But he was 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:17.599 married to a much younger woman, and apparently she vanished 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:19.560 when he came back from the war. She was gone 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.800 literally half his age, yeah, something like that. Yeah, and 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:26.240 so he was fifty, yeah, and she was twenty eight. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.159 I remember that when she disappeared quote unquote disappeared. Yeah. 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.200 I don't think it's quite so mysterious. She just found 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.640 somebody else and that was that. So but so he um, 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.080 he decided to check himself into a like an old 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.520 soldier's home in Bennington, Vermont, which she probably shouldn't have 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.000 done in retrospect, home of the Apple Barn. Yeah it 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.040 is it really, yeah, but it's fine. Let's keep going. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.400 I did not know that, yeah, Manning, And actually I 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.240 believe it is like you know, like the burial place 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.960 of Robert Frost, isn't it I think it is. Yeah, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:04:59.640 there's there's a little more history there than there is 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.800 a here in Portland. But but anyway, he he had 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.760 family in St Albans Uh survery the time of the 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.000 year he was up there in late November. I'm assuming 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.680 it was for Thanksgiving, yeah yeah, and then see on 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:16.760 God on this bus uh in St Albans And and 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.480 if he had disappeared in St Alberns, it would not 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.400 have been a surprise. It's of course up there near 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.880 the Kanuckish standing border. You know, our neighbors to the north, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.719 the Kanuck kanukis Stan and Uh. And in those days, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.840 nomadic bands of fierce Kanucky tribesmen were often crossing the 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.640 border and carrying helpless Americans off in the bondage to 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.680 be slaves or concubines or valets or whatever. Um. And 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.240 then after the U. S. Canada War nineteen fifty six, 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.920 we installed Dance Strubberry on our side of the border 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:46.000 and that pretty much solved the problem. Yeah, yeah, thank God. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.040 So yeah, but he didn't disappear in St Albans. He 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:54.240 disappeared way further south, what happened is sometime not long 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.279 before December one, nineteen forty nine, he boarded that bus 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.440 in St Albans and headed back to Bennington. Bus one 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.640 south on Highway seven which I believe is now Highways 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.240 seven A on the maps. If you look at it 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.320 on Google, it looks like the old highway is now 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.200 seven A and then the new highways is seven. Now. 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.160 I wouldn't be surprised by that. They do that all 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.200 the time. Oh yeah, Yeah, there's just ones like this 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.000 where there's like old patches of the old one that 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.000 there's some some of it that goes over the old one, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.960 and then they just sort of branch off from one another. Um. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.800 But normally this was about an eight hour trip, and 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.280 that I heard it was longer this particular one because 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.479 there was snow. Yeah, I think it was delayed by 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:30.560 six or eight hours. Yeah, which would make for a 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.560 tedious bus trip. But witnesses did see James Tadford board 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.480 the bus and Saint Albans uh and witnesses on the 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.440 bus and including I believe the driver saw him on 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.160 the bus at their last stop, which I'm guessing was 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.359 man second. I thought it was the last stopment well, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:48.840 I guess it would be the second to last, second 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:53.280 last stop before Bennington. Correct, yeah, second to last stop, Yeah, exactly. 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.839 And I'm going to assume that that was Manchester, which 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.960 is about twenty miles north of Bennington. I don't really 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.240 know that for h let's just assume for the sake 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.440 of assuming that it was Manchester. Um, so, his fellow 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.680 passengers see him on the bus in Manchester. But then 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:13.280 the bus arrives in Bennington and Tedford was gone. He 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:18.600 was doing His luggage was still on the bus. I'm sorry, 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.960 I don't understand what we have times on this. Just 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.000 just let it go, okay, sorry, just let it go. 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.320 But anyway, his luggage was on the bus. Uh, and 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.960 it was also an open bus timetable sitting on the 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:36.920 seat next to where he had been sitting. But that 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.640 was it. He was gone. Nobody saw him leave the bus. 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.080 I saw, uh, it wasn't read it. It was a 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.760 similar kind of website. I saw somebody theoriz said he 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:47.600 had wanted to go off and start a new life, 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.240 and so when he got to Bennington he just slid 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:57.840 down and hid underneath his seat. Yeah, but that was yeah, yeah, 0:07:58.000 --> 0:07:59.920 those you know, even in the old days. I doubt 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.880 that they were that roomy underneath there. Well, but even still, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.960 like like, that's not the first place the bus driver 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.920 is gonna look like, oh, I'll just peek under the seats, 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.120 like at least to see if he left anything. Huh, Well, yeah, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.080 for sure, I mean, but yeah, so it's maybe he 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.680 was little. Maybe he was that could have been people 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.680 back in those days where it's true. That's a good point, 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.920 but I find that hard to believe. But anyway, so 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:29.040 he vanished from a moving bus in air apparently zip yeah, 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.959 teleported away by the aliens. His family reported missing to 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.599 the police on December one, and of course there was 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.200 a search, there was there were lots of newspaper articles 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.400 about it. But James Tedford never showed up again and 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.920 they never found him. They never found his body. That 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.160 was it into thin air. So that was one of 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:51.760 the more notable disappearances in the Bennington triangle. So this 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:54.680 guy just I mean, it was a strange story because 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.880 we used to these stories about some guy who wanted 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:58.960 off into the woods and it's never seen again. Well 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.480 that happens, get eaten by bears or something. Disappearing off 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.840 a bus traveling down the highway. You can understand why 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.800 this story is has been so popular with the UFO crowd. Right, well, 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:17.240 so many questions, so many questions, and will we Okay, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.199 the fologist in me is not happy about this. You 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.280 don't like this one. No, the follogist in me is 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.760 not happy that we're putting on. We're putting off talking 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.000 about but okay, let's talk about Let's talk about the 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.240 next one. Okay, we will, um, yeah, so we'll talk 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.400 about the aliens Teleportinghi off the bus here in a 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.320 little bit. But he wasn't the first of the last 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.720 person to just vanish in the triangle. Exactly three years 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.599 before somebody else also disappeared to the day. Well I 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.800 don't know. He was reported missing on December one, and 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.720 this other person disappeared on December one, so Ted Firs, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.360 I mean, well, yeah, it's just pretty much on the 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.760 day his bus his bus ride was on the first? 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.880 Was it on the first? His his bus ride was 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.400 this right here? He was on a bus sometime on 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.320 or just before before. I fighted that a little bit 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.920 much because yeah, I wasn't really sure it might have 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.960 been the day before, but still close enough for government work, right, 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.400 I guess, yeah, they're not that far. I mean, Vermont's 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.360 not giant. No, it's a it's a tight little place. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.360 Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, okay, um but okay, three years 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.920 before this person who disappeared actually did wander off into 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:27.599 the woods. So okay, that's a little more like it. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.240 That's kind of more what we used to And her 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:34.240 name was Paula gene Weldon. She was eighteen student at 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.920 Bennington College, which is in North Bennington. So why did 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.160 I'll call it North Bennington College. I don't quite get it. 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:41.600 I mean, if it's going to be in North Bennington, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.640 it should be called North Bennington College, right. North Bennington 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.640 is separate from Bennington. Uh. And it's not a neighborhood 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.360 of Bennington. It's it's a whole another town, part of 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.520 the greater Bennington area. Yeah, it's probably part of the 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.719 metro area or something like that. But there's definitely some 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.440 green space in between the two. It's not a suburb really, 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.839 um and so, and it's also northwest of Bennington. So 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.200 I don't know what's not called Northwest Bennington because it's 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.960 north of Benington. It's north but it's really Northwest. It's 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.679 still worth of it. I think you're going to get 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.920 so many angry emails from the people of that town. Okay, sorry, 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:18.160 Bennington North End regular that you don't need to be 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.719 angry with us. Actually I got us by the way, 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.480 just just to give you guys a compliment. I gotta 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.439 street you, of course, and did a little tour of 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.520 Bennington and North Bennington and they they looked like a 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.600 very pleasant little places. Did you guys go Look, I've 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.839 been to Bennington, so yeah, how'd you like it? I 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.920 liked it. It's it's actually got like my favorite diner 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.719 in like ever, like the best breakfast I've ever had 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.000 at the Blue ben We used to drep when I 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.120 lived in Massachusetts. We would drive up there like once 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.400 a month to get I mean it was we would 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.240 get in the car and drive for like four hours 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.120 to get brunch at this place. So, I mean, you know, 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.079 it's cute. It's nice little town. College the days when 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.720 that was easy to do, it was it was not college, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.360 it was work even that's how much we like. I 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.640 didn't notice stand my my tallerant for long car drives 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.320 was a lot higher when I was at age than 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.080 that first change that changes as you get a little 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.720 older in it. Where are we Att's I'm talking about 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.160 Bennington itself. Let's talk about to talk about Paula Welton. Yes, yeah, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.760 so she was a sophomore at Bennington. She was from 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.520 a well off Connecticut family, and there didn't seem to 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.040 be anything too dramatic going on in your life. But 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:22.920 apparently she had had a little bit of a following 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.559 out with your dad and she didn't go home for Thanksgiving. 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.240 I mentioned they let the family lived in Connecticut, so 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.640 not that far away. But at the same time, she 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.360 was also eighteen, and so you know, you know what 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.200 that's like. You know, they were rebelling a little bit, 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.840 and so the littlest thing set you off. Yeah, can 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.440 can can necessarily. Yeah. There's also reports that she had 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:46.439 been a little depressed in the days leading up to 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.880 her disappearance. So that makes me believe that she skipped 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.400 down and started a new life under the name Bernie Sanders. 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.959 Not really, well maybe I think so. I mean it's 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.920 kind of the right age free, but there's there's something 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:04.679 to make it right. But yes, yeah, okay, but Bernie 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.800 or not on this on the Afternoon is Sunday, December one, 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.920 Paula asked her roommate if she wanted to go for 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:20.360 a hike. Her roommate, Hannibal Elector. Her roommates not Hannibal Elector, Yeah, exactly, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.880 said she was busy, she begged us. So Paula decided 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.719 to go off on her own, and according to most reports, 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.480 Paula really wanted to hike what's called the Long Trail, 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.160 which is it kind of runs to the east of 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.400 Bennington north and south, goes like you know, it goes 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:34.839 from the bottom of the state to the top of 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.240 the state essentially. Yeah. So at southern end of the 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.320 trail acrosses the border in to Massachusetts, North Dakota somewhere 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.920 I don't know whatever south of there. Uh. And then 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:45.640 at the northern end it stops at some really dense 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:51.920 shrubbery uh. And there's well, it's part of the Appalachian Trail, 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.240 right it is, I believe, Yeah, and so I certainly 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:55.599 if you look at it on Google, it says it 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.720 all Trades Long Trail, Appalachian Trail, Long Trail, Appellation Trail. 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.520 So yeah, so yeah, it's kind of cool. I'd like 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.240 to hike it someday. Except I disappeared. I guess I 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.760 can't do that. But anyway, Paula never could have made 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.360 it to the border with Canada. Um, so there's no 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.959 reasonably the Canadians napped her and you know, and she 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.760 wound up living the rest of her days in slavery, yeah, 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.760 gas or being somebody's valet or god knows what it is. 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.760 But but yeah, Bennington is in the southwest corner of 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.040 the state, and it's a long long way from Canada. 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.520 It's it's much closer to Massachusetts. Senators Canada. Oh yeah, 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.080 much closer. It's it's a stone strow away from New York. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.280 Yeah yeah, I mean it'd be it'd be a hard throw, 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.320 but it's a stone throw. Just yeah, I look it 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:37.440 up on the NAP. Yeah yeah, you'll see it right there. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.320 Paula left the Bennington campus around two thirty pm and 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.880 she headed south to Highway sixties seven. What sort of 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.280 goes at that point? Kind of east west? Uh? There 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.040 she history ride with a guy named Louis Nap who 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.440 drove her to Highway nine. Apparently Highway Night branches off 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:59.520 Highway sixty seven heads out towards the town called Woodford Hollow. 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.200 And pass Woodford Hollow. He dropped her about three miles 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.240 short of Woodford Hollow, which is where the Long Trail starts. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.480 That's where it crosses Highway nine. Did she know, Louis, 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.400 I don't believe. So she was just truly okay, great, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.640 I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, and uh and 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.720 apparently talk about much. She just said she wanted to 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:19.760 ride out to Highway nine and then wanted him nasking, 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.040 you know, about the Long Trail, and that was about it. 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.800 Uh and uh. And of course days later he remembered 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.640 giving her a ride. But you know, we'll find out 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.440 about that. He actually had a house on Highway nine 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:34.960 about two and a half three miles short of Woodford Hollow, 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.240 so that's where as far as he went. He dropped 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.400 her off and she had it back down the highway 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.600 south and maybe you got a ride with somebody else, 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.040 who knows, But she did make it to the trail. Uh. Yeah. 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.040 There were four guys who were leaving the trail at 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.040 the time that Paula showed up, and she asked, just asks, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.080 you know, was this the way to the Long Trail? 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.960 And they said, yeah, the pointed the way, and so uh, 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.640 the last saw of her, she was walking across the 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.960 footbridge that led to the trail and that was it. 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.920 And of course several days later they remembered her. And 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:08.080 I should also mention that Paul was not outfitted for 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.120 a major hike. She was wearing a coat that I 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.120 think had a hood and kind of a kind of 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.040 a furry winter jacket. Yeah, not a real heavy duty thing, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.920 um all said, on jeans and tennis shoes. Again not 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.760 really great snows. Did she even have water? Yeah, I 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:23.800 don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I mean you would 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.520 think she would have taken some water with her. You 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.440 would think that would make sense. Yeah, And she had 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.320 no gear. It's not even water, no food, no extra clothes, 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.160 no camping gear, nothing. I don't think she had a 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.440 flashlight either. And you know, it gets dark at that 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.000 time of the year, that far north right gets dark 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.360 kind of early. And she didn't apparently take too much 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.320 money with her either, And she definitely left some behind 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.760 at the school, like an uncashed check from her parents, 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.520 for example. And you know, you guys, we've seen lots 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.760 of these cases where people run off to start new lives, 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.760 nearly bank accounts and all kinds of stuff behind, because 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.200 that's what I would do. Y yeah, absolutely. Uh. There 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.520 was one more adding Apollo that I know about. I mean, 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.080 there were a lot of sightings of Paula, but they 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.800 were rather conjectural. It was all in the paper and 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.160 people saw, oh I saw somebody look kind of like her, 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.320 similar to the Indiana Dunes or the Grime Sisters even 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.840 Oh yeah, yeah, so there were lots of sidies. This 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.240 one looks pretty confirmed, though. There there was a couple 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.359 whose names elude me um. I think their names are 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.960 lost to the ages. The several people in this case 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:25.840 whose names are kind of lost to the ages. It's 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.399 a pretty common name, yeah, but they lost the ages. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.119 It's a nice name actually. But they were about it, 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.760 maybe a hundred or so yards behind her and following her, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.240 and they said she went around a bend in the trail, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.320 and then when they rounded the bend of a minute 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.240 to later, she was gone. Yeah, I don't know how. 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:48.320 I mean, in Oregon, it would be pretty easy to, like, say, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.000 if you had to use the bathroom, it's pretty easy 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.399 to just hop off the trail and go a little 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.800 ways and your trail gets totally lost, and you would 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.040 be totally lost. But I don't have a sing, you know, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.080 I don't. I've never to the Long Trail, so I 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:02.760 don't know. I have a friend who just hiked the 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.520 entire Appalachian Trail, and it looks like there are parts 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.800 where it would be pretty easy to do something similar 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.800 to that. But if there were snow on the ground, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.800 one would assume that they would have seen her tracks 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.000 going off somewhere. So, you know, my first my first 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.239 thought on something like that is she had she had 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:22.879 to go pee. That's child possible. Yeah, And as far 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:24.600 as I know, it's snowed later on. I don't know 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.119 if it was a night or the next day, but 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.760 as as of that time, there was no sky. But 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.360 it's also a deciduous forest, which means that is their 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.160 leaves all over the ground, So that is going, Yeah, 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:43.400 but it's not a trail more than yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:45.440 but it would be more open, so it would be 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:51.080 easier to see her if she were Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.080 I didn't great all the time. I did too, Um, 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:56.800 but I kind of think that you guys are you know, 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.520 like really distracting from the alien subducted or kind of 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:04.200 oh yeah, sorry, now just kidding. They also reported the 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:09.720 bright light yeah gey stuff, the memory loss. Yeah. So 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.920 Paula didn't come home that night, obviously, and next next day, 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.560 on Monday, December two, she uh, her roommate noticed she 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:19.400 was gone. And also, by the way, she didn't show 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.600 up for classes. So back in those days, colleges were 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.520 a little more a little more strict about that kind 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:30.359 of thing. Some colleges, Yeah, yeah, and so yeah and 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.840 so yeah, so they know she wasn't there and hermy 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.040 said she didn't come home, and the alarm goes up 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.840 and h and her parents are notified, um, and the 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.440 police are called. And of course nobody knew at this 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.040 point that Paula had gone to the Long Trail, So 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.280 at first they were searching the college campus in the 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.120 surrounding areas. But then after the news hit the papers, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:52.119 Lewis Napp remember him, the guy that gave her a 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.359 ride out most of the way, Yeah, he remembered her, 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.440 and so he came over to police with his story 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.920 and told them, Hey, I gave her a ride to 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.320 Hghway nine and she was really interested in hiking the 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.000 Long Trail, so uh and also what's his name? The 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.920 four the four guys that were her on the way 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.560 on their way out, one of them actually worked at 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.240 the local benage in paper and so he went to 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.280 a reporter and told the reporter about that and what 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.160 he had seen, so, you know. And then so obviously 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.359 she had had last been seen in a long trail, 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.639 so everybody can everybody assumes she's out there lost or 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.760 maybe dead. But at this point, again, she hasn't. She 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.560 hasn't been gone that long, and so there was still 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.920 some hope of finding her alive. And so the shirt 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.320 the search shifted to the long trail, and they searched 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.080 not only the trail but to swap the woods on 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.040 the other side of it. Uh, and a lot of people, 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.080 I mean, they canceled classes at the college, so so 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.359 everybody at the college could turn out and help with 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:51.160 the search, and like police and National Guard and everybody 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:53.320 you can think of. I mean, hundreds of people were 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.920 searching for her. And actually, so there were so many 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:57.640 people searching for her, I was kind of surprised none 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:01.359 of the searchers got lost themselves. True. Well, if they 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:05.360 you said they were carrying confetti, did you say that yet? Yeah? Yeah, 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:07.639 but soon But they were, I mean they were they were, 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.480 you know, hustle and grattling it. So you know, it's 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.760 pretty easy to track your way back if you've got 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:15.800 something like that. That's unless you get like, you know, 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.040 somebody like Chupy going after you picking up your confetti. Well, 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.560 the good thing about confetti is it's hard to get 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:23.719 all of the pieces. There's a lot a little that's 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.479 why you would do confetti. Maybe confetti makes sense actually, 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:28.520 but yeah, that's one of the ways they kept him 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.160 going over the same ground again and again, dropping confetti. 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.560 Whenever you search the place, he drops, drop a little 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.560 confetti and just keep going. And also reports were coming 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.520 in from other places. This was hitting the papers. I 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.320 think it made the national news even and there were 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:45.640 reports from somebody as far away as Massachusetts. The waitress 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.200 claimed to have served her in a diner. Yeah, Massachusetts, 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.240 isn't that It's not, no, it's not. It's not usually 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.120 far away, especially if she actually went pretty far away though, well, 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.920 I mean, if she accidentally went the wrong way on 0:21:58.000 --> 0:21:59.760 the trail, you mean, yeah, she walks south and staid 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:03.400 in the Yeah, but the people who said they saw 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:05.760 her going on the trail and followed her on the trail. 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.760 We're going in the northerly direction. Yeah, but she could 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:14.159 have walked north originally and then overshot. Yeah, like just 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:17.080 walked for an hour or whatever and then walked back 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.200 and totally missed where she should have popped off and 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.320 then just you know, stumbles out of the forest a 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:25.680 day later in Massachusetts. And it's just at this first, 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.440 but you would think the waitress would say she looked horrible, yeah, 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.639 and really needed help and realized that she needed help, so, 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.440 you know, because she couldn't pay for the slice of pie, right. Yeah. 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:39.840 And apparently well apparently she was with the guy too, 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.040 of course. Yeah, and she was running off, you know. Yeah, 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:46.240 I don't know. It could be that guy was an alien, yeah, 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.440 or that could be too. It was the bald world 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:51.720 world for Dora. But I've been watching fringely. I was 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.400 going to say, you must be watching, yeah, exactly. Um, 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.800 And there was one report of a suspicious character, a 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.480 guy whose name I could never find. Either of you 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:02.399 able to find this guy's name, And yeah, I was. 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.680 He was lost to the ages, one of those I 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.000 swear that I saw it in one place, but when 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.000 I went looking back through with what I read, I 0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:12.240 couldn't find it again. Yeah, everywhere. I even found a 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.960 fairly authoritative newspaper article from the local Bennington newspaper that 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:18.080 was like one of those look back on the years 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:20.160 later and everything like that. And even that one didn't 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:22.479 have a name for the guy. You would think of anybody, 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.280 they would have had the name, right, You would think 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:26.679 anything at the time. But I think oftentimes when they 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:30.119 do those retrospectives they scrub names out. Maybe they do. 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:32.359 Maybe they figure it's no sense, you know, expuring that 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.600 stuff up or something. I don't know. Maybe his family 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:37.200 owned the paper by that time. I don't know, But 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.920 this guy was a lumberjack apparently, at least I've in 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:43.639 one place, and he lived kind of near the trail 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.880 that Paula walked down the long trail and reportedly said 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:51.600 to friends or acquaintances that he saw her walk by 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:53.840 the trail. He'd been having an argument with his girlfriend. 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:56.800 He storms off angry, and then he said he had 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:59.320 he went home. That's one version, or he got in 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.480 his truck and followed her. His own accounts have buried, 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:07.160 of course, of course. Yeah, and he also supposedly told 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:09.240 a few people that he knew where Paula was buried, 0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.040 but of course, later on a question my police, he 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:16.200 said that was just idle talk. So I don't know. Okay, So, 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:22.600 I mean we're friends and you're oftentimes pretty creepy, but like, yeah, 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:26.159 but I mean, like I can't imagine anybody having that 0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:27.879 kind of sense of humor. They would be like, you 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:30.119 know what, I'm going to make a joke about knowing 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:33.639 where this missing girl is buried. It's behavior, it's super 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.000 weirdo behavior. It's a little weird of But then again, 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.800 I mean, you never you don't really know the context. 0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:42.080 I mean, it could have been threatened more than anything, 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:44.159 but you didn't have a clue what happened to her anything. 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:46.680 But he's threatening somebody and saying, hey, by the way, 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:50.320 I know where she's buried. I could murder you. So 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:54.280 I'm really uh So this makes me think of another case. 0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:59.800 We've got a college age girl who disappears and it's 0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:03.520 a the Northeast, and the news media makes all kinds 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:05.879 of hubbub about it, Like I really think that this 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:08.760 should have been covered by a sensationalist writer that we 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:11.200 know of. Like it's shocking to me that this hasn't 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:16.200 happened too early, too early? Sorry, Yeah, not not yet. Yeah, 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:18.400 he's going to run out of stuff to talk about, 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:20.240 and then it's gonna be off to this one and 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:22.959 it might be related, who knows. The police couldn't put 0:25:23.000 --> 0:25:25.879 anything on our lumberjacks, so that never went anywhere. And 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:29.480 that's it. Paula's missing. Still wait, there was another one. 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:34.119 A year before Paula disappeared. Somebody else disappeared too, in 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:37.440 the same area, fairly close by. Yeah. Uh, this is 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:39.600 also out in the woods, not on a bus. Uh. 0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:42.879 But it's still a little strange that this guy's name 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:48.440 was Middy Rivers I assume the time. Yeah, he was 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.200 a hunting fishing guide, uh, seventy four years old. But 0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:55.040 apparently he knew the local woods very very well, so 0:25:55.200 --> 0:25:57.120 he wasn't the kind of guy to just wander out 0:25:57.160 --> 0:25:59.120 there and get lost. And if he had gotten lost, 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:03.320 he would have known how to care of himself. I mean, 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:09.960 you know, he was seventy four in the forties, right, Yeah, 0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:15.600 pretty damn old. Continue. But what happened to him was 0:26:15.920 --> 0:26:20.880 on November twelve, Middy was guiding a group of four 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.840 hunters in the hills near Bennington. Uh. And they were 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:25.840 heading back to their camp after what I sen was 0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:29.840 an unproductive day because I have heard nobody mentioned transporting 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:34.479 a deer carcass back to their camp with them triumph. Yeah. Uh, 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:36.720 and Midea got out in front of the group and 0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:39.640 apparently out of their sight, and then they never saw 0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:42.120 him again. The four hunters eventually got back to camp, 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:44.680 Middy was not there, you know, made them all scratch 0:26:44.760 --> 0:26:46.880 the heads just a little bit, and he has never 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:50.239 been heard from again. Well there's the whole shell casing thing. 0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:51.840 Oh yeah, No, there was a there was a huge 0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:54.760 search of the woods where he disappeared, but no trace 0:26:55.080 --> 0:26:57.520 was ever found except for a cartridge from his rifle 0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:00.480 that was found next to a stream. And I don't 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:01.920 I don't know what stream that was, and I'm not 0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:03.440 even a hund percent sure that it was even the 0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:06.120 cartridge from his rifle. That's what I can never understand 0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:08.719 was how they pinned on his rifle. Yeah, I mean 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:13.000 also just realistically, if he was hunting and fishing in 0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:16.639 that area for a long time, what's to say that 0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:19.720 wasn't from three days before? Ye? True, that too, you know, 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:22.080 But yeah, there's some cartridges that are just very very 0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:24.800 popular and so and his might have been one of them. 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:26.920 So it's hard to say that was his even but 0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:29.040 it was just like Paula, there was not a shred 0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:31.919 of torn clothing or a shoe or anything that they 0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:35.600 didn't find his rifle. And that's that's what's strange about 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:39.879 these disappearances. We've talked about a lot of disappearing people, uh, 0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:42.920 and it seems like usually they find some little tiny 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:45.920 tracer or another, like an article of clothing, or maybe 0:27:45.920 --> 0:27:48.399 a year two goes by and they find like, you know, 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:49.960 they find a bunch of their clothes, or they find 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:52.560 a little backpack or a purse, or they find something. 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:56.320 Nothing ever turned up at all, particularly when we're talking 0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:59.000 about those ones where we kind of say, okay, well 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:00.920 could be a serial killer, but probably it was a bear. 0:28:01.720 --> 0:28:04.120 You know, they wandered off and you know some predator 0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:06.320 got them, and then you know, the clothes because they 0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:10.280 they're not going to eat the clothes because no, well 0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:13.800 sometimes the devil bear. Yeah okay, yeah, So I mean 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:16.920 that's always so fascinating and frustrating to me when literally 0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:22.040 nothing shows up, absolutely not a clue. Ah. But yeah, 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:24.879 so those three so far. So we talked about MIDI, PAULA, 0:28:25.040 --> 0:28:28.760 and James Tedford. So that's the first three. And then uh, 0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:32.240 year after James Tedford vanished, a couple of other people 0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:35.400 disappeared too. Uh. There was Paul Jepson. And I've seen 0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:39.400 this as Jeffson as a J E. P. H. S O. N. Yeah, 0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:43.200 and I've yeah, I'm gonna go with Jepson because I 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.320 saw an article in a local paper that had his 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:48.280 and his dad's name in there, and it was Jepson 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:54.200 in there, although not that the newspapers anyway, But anyway, 0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:56.720 we'll go with Jepson. He was ag eight. He was 0:28:56.800 --> 0:29:00.360 from Shaftsbury, Vermont, which is about six months north of 0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:02.800 Bennington on Highway seven A, which, of course you know, 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:08.040 meant that what's his name, James Tedford cruised right by there. Yeah, 0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:12.920 I know who. Coincidence, Paul Paul Jeffson disappeared October twelfth, 0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:15.960 nineteen fifty and all these people disappeared in that sounded 0:29:16.040 --> 0:29:18.200 kind of a narrow little window there between October twelfth 0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:22.320 and December one. They also supposedly all disappeared within an 0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:26.440 hour window during the day, somewhere between three and four o'clock. 0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:29.040 I always see this sometimes, and it was always between 0:29:29.080 --> 0:29:33.840 three and four o'clock they disappear. Yeah, that's when the 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:36.160 oos are out. Yeah, the accounts that I've heard of 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:38.840 this one I read that he disappeared from the family 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:41.920 farm in Shaftesbury. And then another account that I read 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:44.040 his mother left him in the family track while she 0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:47.960 went off to feed some hogs, which doesn't totally make sense, 0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:51.720 but whatever. Well, actually I think I can explain that. Yeah, 0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:55.120 so his family. One of the things his family did 0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:58.239 is they took care of a local dump. And if 0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:01.760 you think about the time in the area, the local 0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:05.400 dump was somebody that had extra space that happened to 0:30:05.520 --> 0:30:08.560 have a big hole in it that everybody could throw 0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:13.840 their garbage into. And garbage tends to have food in it, 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:17.440 so you can have pigs, and the pigs will feed 0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:20.080 off of the trash. But she still got to give 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:22.440 them some real food. You know, they can't they can't 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:24.760 subsist on what they find in I mean, it's not 0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:27.400 like hefty bags were around at the time, but they 0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:29.720 can't subsist on everything they're finding in the trash. That 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:31.600 they've got to give them some real food. So that 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:34.880 I think is why you that's why I think it's two, 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:37.200 because people read pigs and believe it's got to be 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:40.360 a farm, and then people read the thing about being 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:42.719 in the truck and you'll see it, Well, they were 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:45.560 at the dump, and I think that's they're actually one 0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:48.200 in the same. Yeah, well, yeah, I know that makes 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:51.000 sense totally, the part of it didn't. I mean, even 0:30:51.080 --> 0:30:53.160 if they had just gone off to say, say, somebody 0:30:53.240 --> 0:30:55.080 was on vacation, she had to go go buy their 0:30:55.120 --> 0:30:58.280 farm real quick and feed the hogs. And accounts that 0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:00.440 I've read about this it took her like a hour 0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:02.360 to do this, which seems like kind of a long 0:31:02.440 --> 0:31:05.120 time to go feed the hogs. How many hogs there are? 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:07.080 It could be that, or it could it could just 0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:08.880 be that that was inaccurate and she was only gone 0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:11.479 for fifteen minutes. Yeah, as say enough for a kid 0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:14.640 to disappear. I've I've had to take your livestock, and 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:16.400 you know, you gotta do the water, and you're gotta 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:18.400 do the feed, and you gotta clean out stalls and 0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:20.640 that can take some time. Well that's true, yeah, But 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:23.120 also I mean he was eight, right, but he's old 0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:24.840 enough to help with some of that stuff. That's why 0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:27.680 I'm surprised. You. So, if it is this long endeavor 0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.080 where you are like mucking out pins and stuff like that, 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:31.920 why would you not just have your eight year old 0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:33.760 son do the mucking while you're doing all the rest 0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:35.760 of the stuff. For like true, of course, there is 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:37.920 also the fact that what do eight year old boys 0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:42.400 love to do? Jump in puddles of stuff and when 0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:46.440 it's pig excrement, that stuff stinks to high heaven and 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.120 doesn't wash out. Tell the kid not to do that, 0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:52.560 Oh yeah, because boys listen. Well, I think eight is 0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:54.520 older than you think it is, but we can go 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:58.360 with that. Yeah. But anyway, so it's not out either way, 0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:03.040 Family Farm Org. It's not outrageous. But whatever happened, Uh, 0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:05.840 he either wanted off or maybe somebody snatched him right 0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:08.000 out of the truck. We don't really know what. The 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:11.000 police brought in bloodhounds. They were able to track him 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.320 for a while, but the trail apparently ended at the 0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:17.000 edge of a highway and that was that. Uh. There were, 0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:20.640 as always, some reported sightings of Paul, but nothing consistent. 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.600 Nothing ever panned out. There was one that I read 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:26.280 about it, one of the papers or some woman spotted 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:29.800 a boy just like him, but from the description his 0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:33.240 father said, as Paul Jepson's father said, he didn't believe 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:35.560 it was his son. And did you mention that he's 0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:39.640 apparently was wearing a very distinctive red shirt at the time, 0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:43.040 or a red shirt or a red jacket, much like um, 0:32:43.640 --> 0:32:47.600 what's her name? Yeah, Paula, Paula. Thank you? Yet it 0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:51.200 exactly and you know it's an easy target color. No, 0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:54.000 it's it's it is. It's great when he's looking for 0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:57.600 a body. Okay. So, and then one last disappearance, which 0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:02.600 was only two weeks later, that's October, Max and freed 0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:06.160 to Langer, North Adams, Massachusetts, were camping in the Mount 0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:10.720 Pisca area with Frieda's cousin, Herbert Elsner. But first, before 0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:12.200 I go any further, I want to say this is 0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:13.920 the one that I think doesn't really fit with the 0:33:14.000 --> 0:33:16.240 other ones, even though it's always it always seems to 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.880 be included when you read about the Bennington Triangle. This 0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:21.200 take place in the Mount Pisca area, as I said, 0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:23.520 And that's a long way from Bennington, that's all. That's 0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:27.760 way north, fairly close to the Kanakastani border and and 0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:30.560 so I'm not it's kind of outside the triangle, and 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:34.320 it doesn't have to be a perfectly shaped triangle. The 0:33:34.400 --> 0:33:37.920 boundaries of this triangle can change. Okay, okay, well that 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:41.200 was much like the Bermuda triangle. Yeah, they just keep 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:44.400 getting bigger and bigger. Yeah, it morphs to absorb whatever 0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:47.360 story you would like it to encompass. Okay, all right, 0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:49.280 well that guy's cool. It's part of the triangle that 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.400 won't include it. Yeah, okay, So Frieda Langer was fifty 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:56.000 three or husband Max was eight. Max had a bad need, 0:33:56.160 --> 0:33:58.680 so in Frieda and Herbert decided that they wanted to 0:33:58.720 --> 0:34:01.520 take a hike. Max decided to stay behind the camp 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:04.640 because of that bad name, and so Frieda and Herbert 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:08.920 headed out. But a little way from camp, Frieda slipped 0:34:08.960 --> 0:34:11.839 while crossing a creek. And I don't know whether they 0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:14.680 were just hopping rock to rock or walking across the log. 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:17.000 Whatever happened, she fell in and got wet, and so 0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:20.320 she decided taking to run back to camp. So she 0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:22.480 told Herbert to just continue on that she was going 0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:26.799 to run back and change. Yeah, it's late October, of course, 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:29.239 it's chili out and uh, she was just gonna run back, 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:31.640 changing and something dry. Uh. In one account that I 0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:34.719 actually said she was taking a shortcut. And this is 0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:36.920 a you know, a little note to our listeners. Many 0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:39.239 a great adventure starts with the words, hey, let's take 0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:42.719 a shortcut. I know a shorter way, I know a 0:34:42.760 --> 0:34:48.400 good way. Yeah. Yeah, But whatever happened, I don't know. 0:34:48.680 --> 0:34:52.800 She left Herbert at about three pm. Herbert eventually she 0:34:53.080 --> 0:34:56.239 never saw her again. She never rejoined him. He came 0:34:56.280 --> 0:34:59.360 back to camp about four or forty five, but Frieda 0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:02.320 wasn't there. Uh. And according to her husband Max, she 0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:05.120 had never she had never returned from the hike, and 0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:08.759 so well, you know, puzzled all around, and they called 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:12.520 the police and another huge search is conducted. No trace 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:14.960 of Frieda was ever found, which makes it kind of 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:18.640 similar to our other disappearances. Which is why I see 0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:22.200 that some people because it's so pinky. I mean that 0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:24.719 she just disappears. But here's the guy that knows her. 0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:28.439 Here's camp right back here, and she just vanished hike 0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:32.280 apart at the most and she just zip just just vanished, 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:36.000 yeah pooh like that then leaves no trace. But there's 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:37.719 also just similar in one big way, and and that 0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:40.319 is that Frieda's body was found about six months after 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:43.719 she disappeared. She's the only one. She's the only one act. 0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:47.560 And was she in good shape? No, she was not. 0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:52.040 She she had just decomposed enough that they couldn't tell 0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:55.120 how she had been killed or she died by natural causes. 0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:59.080 I don't think it was natural causes. So because the 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:01.200 body was found in a spot that had been searched 0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:04.320 when they were searching for her originally. Yeah, so it 0:36:04.480 --> 0:36:07.200 looks like somebody came back and dumped the body there 0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:10.040 after the you know, after the search was done. We've 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:14.080 got four of five bodies or people who were never 0:36:14.160 --> 0:36:17.320 seen again. Yeah. Now, I mean I'm sure that you 0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:19.800 came across this, Joe. I know that is what I 0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:22.800 want to say. Canonical Is that the right term? The 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:27.279 central core? They can in the central There are other 0:36:27.680 --> 0:36:31.120 you know, murders and disappearance. Yeah, there's I've seen upwards 0:36:31.200 --> 0:36:36.200 of twelve different ones that are attributed to this particular triangle. Yeah, 0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:38.920 like there was that one, that one that was very recent, 0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:40.879 like two thousand and eleven, that kid with the weird 0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:44.880 name Marble, what's his Marble? Something, there's there's marble, but 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:48.280 there was a hunter in the thirties who quote unquote 0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:51.160 disappeared out of sight of his party, and that was 0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:55.200 found under a tree shot days later. Like there's there's 0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:59.360 a whole series of these kinds of weird occurrences in 0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:02.720 this whole areas. So it really depends on which version, 0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:07.000 in which assemblage of articles you read. Yeah, I know, 0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:09.480 I read another one that I didn't include it with 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:11.920 this one because there's absolutely nothing out there about it 0:37:11.960 --> 0:37:14.840 except a group of three hunters vanished I believe in 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:20.919 I think, Yeah, but that's it. That's that's the only 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:22.839 thing there is about it. So who knows if that's 0:37:23.280 --> 0:37:26.800 anything related to truth or not. I mean, uh so 0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:29.040 I didn't include that one. But yeah, apparently a lot 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:31.920 of people disappeared, you're mysterious, were murdered or whatever. But 0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:34.839 these are, like I said, the five tried and true, 0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:38.719 absolutely for sure. So we think ones fo, we go 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:44.600 to theories. Let's take a quick break. The walls are wire, 0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:47.640 the foundation is stone. It really shouldn't be that hard 0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:50.839 to secure. Yet despite all this, he gets in week 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:54.279 after week and terrorizes all the ladies. Woken up from 0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:56.680 their slumber, they scream and run blindly into the dark, 0:37:56.760 --> 0:37:59.759 hoping against hope that they will be spared. 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Hey, well, I hope that was 0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:17.359 refreshing for you guys. Was we went? We went? Had at? Yeah, 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:21.719 those jew boxes are pretty pretty good. Huh, all right, 0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:28.719 where were here? Oh? Aliens? Alien induction. Now, I know, 0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:31.680 as a noted ufologist, I know Devin wanted to weigh 0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:34.120 out on the alien thing. It was obviously aliens, you 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:37.200 think so, Yeah, I mean even the most recent one 0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:41.080 of h what's her name? His name? Her name? Oh 0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:47.120 frieda frieda Yeah, I mean obviously the aliens just abducted 0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:48.759 her and did their tests and then dropped her in 0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:52.600 the exact same spot. Never mind they accidentally got you know, 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:59.520 the days wrong. They just teleported her back and close enough, 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:03.080 close enough for government work. Man, I don't know. I 0:40:03.160 --> 0:40:08.040 mean they've come hundreds of thousands of light years. I 0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:13.719 mean really, what is Yeah, well, to them, that's you know, 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:17.560 like a millimeter if they're giants. No, no for distance, 0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:21.160 I mean like whatever, it's kind it's easy. I mean 0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:24.000 you who can who can be trusted to know exactly? 0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:26.239 Sometimes you park your car and then you think you're 0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:28.279 exactly where you parked your car, but you're actually like 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:34.320 five blocks off. True, you dropped the pin in like 0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:36.160 a little bit of the wrong place in the map. 0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:41.160 They might have fingers, I don't. I mean, it's the 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:44.520 only I'm not going to argue this too hard because 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:48.200 I like being a newphologist. There's no like real evidence here. 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:52.319 There's no sightings that correspond with any of these things. Yeah, 0:40:52.520 --> 0:40:55.600 none of that. But I will say that it would 0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:59.359 nicely round out these disappearances. I mean, most of these 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:04.040 people disp heard with literal literally hide nor hair of them, right, 0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:07.719 I mean, they're just gone like poof, And what else 0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:11.880 can do that other than weird magician guys are serial killers. 0:41:12.000 --> 0:41:15.560 But I'm getting ahead of myself or you know, made 0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:19.360 up histories. But I think, I mean, I think the 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:22.440 aliens theory is not a bad one overall with this one. 0:41:22.520 --> 0:41:27.560 I mean, again, it is troubling broad daylight, right, you 0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:29.960 don't that's not really usually when the aliens come to 0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:32.480 abduct people and then the lack of any kind of 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:37.080 sightings or strange noises or anything like that. But overall 0:41:38.200 --> 0:41:42.879 the next one might explain that though, yeah, I don't 0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:46.520 think still though, I mean, we're talking, especially with Frieda again, right, 0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:50.960 we're talking, you know, fifteen minutes walk, you'd hear Bigfoot. 0:41:51.800 --> 0:41:58.000 Either of those guys would have heard big Everybody here's Bigfoot. 0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:00.840 They just can't get his picture, that's the trick. Oh okay, 0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:02.680 they would have said. And there was a loud rustling 0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:06.799 and weird grunting noises unless he was having a quiet day. 0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:12.800 And I really, well, not even I think that he 0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:15.160 does that. That's sort of noise making things, kind of 0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:17.880 the way a rattler wants to scare away. And and 0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:21.759 you're probably right, yeah, but I also big Foot is 0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:25.720 a gentle giant he's carrying not. According to the story 0:42:25.800 --> 0:42:29.080 that comes out from I think it was the late 0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:34.040 eighteen hundreds in this area, Supposedly there was a carriage that, 0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:36.960 you know, team of horses is drawn upon and it's 0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:39.799 a terrible storm and they stop and the guys trying 0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:42.520 to see ahead, and he hears something outside and the 0:42:42.600 --> 0:42:44.680 horses are freaking out. All the people get out of 0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:48.080 the carriage, at which point something comes out of the 0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:51.080 woods and you know, beats against the side of the carriage, 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:54.440 eventually knocking it over and scaring the holy hell out 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:58.000 of the horses. Like it was eight foot tall with glow. 0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:00.439 I think it had glowing red eyes. That you're wrong 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:05.400 on that that was moth man. No, Bigfoot doesn't have 0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:08.840 glowing eyes. But the point is eight foot tall and 0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:16.800 hairy and angry. Does sound like Bigfoot? Bigfoot is never angry. 0:43:17.480 --> 0:43:20.960 Bears are angry often. Listen. I've met a lot of 0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:24.080 bears and they are generally not angry men, but some 0:43:24.200 --> 0:43:27.080 of them have very big feet. True, all right, there 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:30.359 you go. Um, but there there are local legends there. 0:43:30.440 --> 0:43:34.840 It's very similar to our sasquatch lessons legends here in 0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:39.400 the Northwest of a big foot like creature. Uh. And 0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:43.360 so that's among the Indians, local Indians And um, so 0:43:43.440 --> 0:43:45.440 what do you guys think about big Foot? Is the theory? No? 0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:49.719 I like aliens way more than for this. I'm sorry. 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:53.640 I like Bigfoot. I love you, but I think aliens 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:57.520 more exactly. That's sure, you feel better, don't your big Foot? No, 0:43:57.719 --> 0:44:01.080 I'm sure a lot. Where are we at next? Next? 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:04.279 Sary legendary rocks? This is according to local Indians, and 0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:06.320 I forget what these things were called by the Indians. 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:10.480 I've seen the name, but it's unpronounceable. Um. But these apparently, 0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:12.279 if you step on these rocks, they can just open 0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:15.120 up and swallow you up. I've seen those. Yeah, it 0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:20.360 sounds like something out of Stargate. Oh really, And I 0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:23.600 haven't watched it about Stargate, so I don't know. But yeah, okay, 0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:25.680 so that's a possibility of that. You know, there's some 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:27.520 of these, some of these Indian legends you kind of 0:44:27.520 --> 0:44:30.440 wonder sometimes they're pulling they're pulling the white man's leg 0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:32.719 just a little bit. Yeah. So here's the problem with 0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:36.120 the whole Indian legend thing that didn't show up until 0:44:36.280 --> 0:44:40.000 the very early eighties, that there was the whole because 0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:43.040 the Indian legend is not only the rocks. There's the 0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:47.680 Indian legend that the local indigenous people wouldn't go into 0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:50.600 those mountains because for fear of the things were there, 0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:53.720 and they would only bury their dead there, and YadA yadya. 0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:59.160 That only came about in the eighties. But there is 0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:02.200 act at least some information that people say might be 0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:06.560 truthful in terms of the local people's didn't like going there, 0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:11.719 and that is because apparently the way it's oriented and 0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:15.120 with the weather patterns that are there, storms move in 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:19.640 and it gets really crappy, really fast, and so it's 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.960 really easy to get disoriented because you say, you're thinking, well, 0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:25.800 the wind is always going to blow from the east, 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:28.680 except there's some weird weather patterns where it changes that, 0:45:29.239 --> 0:45:32.600 and it can screw people's sense of navigation. Well, I 0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:34.759 mean more than that might be real, though, but the 0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:38.279 whole rock thing is not just gonna say more than 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:40.520 just the wind patterns. I mean, the wind can be 0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:43.960 blowing consistently from one side, but the way that the 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:48.640 forest looks in a storm versus when you've been walking there, 0:45:48.680 --> 0:45:50.880 I mean, it's it's easy enough to get disoriented if 0:45:50.880 --> 0:45:52.400 you aren't What if you aren't doing that thing you 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:54.960 gotta do when you're hiking where everyone's a while, you 0:45:55.000 --> 0:45:56.680 look back to make sure you know what it looks 0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:59.600 like on the other way, you're not doing that. It's 0:45:59.600 --> 0:46:02.839 all right, super easy to get disoriented if it's kind 0:46:02.880 --> 0:46:05.680 of sunny and then ten minutes later it's pouring down 0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:08.759 rain and wind blowing and you turn around. It's like 0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:11.880 the easiest thing in the entire world to lose any trail. 0:46:12.160 --> 0:46:14.640 That's why. Yeah, I was just take a five mile 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:17.080 long rope with me. Yeah, I know you do. I've 0:46:17.080 --> 0:46:20.520 seen you hyper It's really awkward. It's super weird. That's 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:22.680 a lot lighter towards the end of the hike, well 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:26.080 heavier as you go back, because God help you. If 0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:28.440 you don't coil it up as you go home, then 0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:30.520 you got this big knot at the end of the trail. 0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:33.480 That's disgusting to try to entangle that thing. Yeah. Well. 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:35.799 The other thing about the Indians though, is there they're 0:46:35.840 --> 0:46:38.040 much like the rest of us, is they want they 0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:40.839 want a good pay day. And I'm not sure how 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:42.680 good the game was around there, but I assume that 0:46:42.800 --> 0:46:44.920 might have been part of it too. If the hunting 0:46:45.040 --> 0:46:47.600 is not good, then screw it, why should go there? Yeah, 0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:51.200 that's another good reason. Or alternately, if the hunting is 0:46:51.280 --> 0:46:53.680 really good, why would you let anybody? Why wouldn't you 0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:55.440 just like try to scare people away at a good 0:46:55.480 --> 0:46:59.319 point too? Yeah? Okay, but anyway, Yeah, I don't think 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:03.520 the Indians were aulally terrified of that. Another possibility is 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:05.880 that all five of these people were killed by a 0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:10.960 serial killer Boom boom, which I actually I think it's 0:47:10.960 --> 0:47:13.399 possible at least some of them were. It does seem 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:15.919 to me like quite possible there was a serial killer 0:47:15.920 --> 0:47:18.640 at work here. This eyebrow was raised. I'm waiting for 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:21.520 you to to to justify this to me. Yeah, well, 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:26.120 people that advantage like that. I mean the middle ones, Middy, 0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:29.040 or I should say, the early ones, Middi, Paul, Paula, 0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:31.799 and James are similar enough. I can see them being 0:47:31.920 --> 0:47:35.479 done by a single killer. But in the case of Middy, 0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:38.600 remember he was the first one, the hunter guy who disappeared. 0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:42.920 I wouldn't totally rule out a hunting accident because I mean, 0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:45.240 when you think about it, it would be a huge 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:48.320 act of daring do for a serial killer even to 0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:50.440 nab this guy. And it was he's this guy who 0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:54.240 was armed with a rifle himself, and he's being followed 0:47:54.239 --> 0:47:57.480 by four other guys with guns to just nab that 0:47:57.600 --> 0:48:01.719 guy at hall him away and kill him. That's pretty um, 0:48:02.600 --> 0:48:05.520 that's pretty ballsy. You gotta let me be honest. It's 0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:09.960 it's almost it's almost almost Hannibal Lecter territory. That that's 0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:12.120 the whole idea that this guy was just barely out 0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:14.719 of sight of these four other guys and he just vanishes. 0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:17.359 I find it really hard to believe a serial killer 0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:19.600 did that. I found it a lot. I would agree 0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:21.840 with that that there was probably a little accident and 0:48:21.880 --> 0:48:25.239 they decided to hide the body, which is one possibility. 0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:28.320 But but the other three. My my problem with this 0:48:28.440 --> 0:48:31.840 whole serial killer thing, and we we talked about this recently, 0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:35.120 is you know, the serial killers tend to have a 0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:39.240 pattern and an m O. But these your your three core, 0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:43.120 These three people right there are four people are vastly different. 0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:46.400 We've got an eight year old boy, eighteen year old girl, 0:48:46.880 --> 0:48:51.279 a fifty three year old woman, and uh, Tedford was 0:48:51.719 --> 0:48:54.799 Tedford wasn't even in the area. But let's just bring 0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:57.640 him in the mix. He's a fifty something year old man. 0:48:57.840 --> 0:48:59.680 It was, Yeah, he was in the area. He was 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:01.960 He wasn't on the trailers first, he was not on 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:05.120 the trail right there, and he wasn't on the ground physically. 0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:07.000 He was supposedly still in the bus. But my point 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:10.799 is they're all very different. I'm willing to go there 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:14.960 with the people who disappeared in the forest be a 0:49:15.000 --> 0:49:19.160 cme of opportunity. I mean three or four even because 0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:23.920 we got a hunting guy on the trail, the teenage girls. 0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:27.759 We got a woman who slipped and fell on the trail. Yeah, 0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:29.880 but no, she wasn't on the same trail. Well he 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:33.080 was far away, that's right, she wasn't on that actual trail. 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:37.160 And then kid a little boy on the road on 0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:41.560 the road. I mean, yeah, the victims are different, but 0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:45.320 the m O is not different. It's not ame of 0:49:45.360 --> 0:49:48.360 opportunities getting That's That's what I'm thinking to you. Just 0:49:48.680 --> 0:49:53.160 you know, just crazy person wandering the forest and kidnapping people. 0:49:53.320 --> 0:49:55.200 I don't think he was wandering the forest. I mean 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:58.120 what these um also, yeah, Paul the eight year old, 0:49:58.200 --> 0:50:01.160 as we know, he they followed his scent to the 0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:04.600 highway or a highway. So okay, we gotta road. And 0:50:04.960 --> 0:50:07.160 actually we have proximity to road for all these people, 0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:11.759 I mean not the first one, not minie, and and 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:15.400 not fraid that with the middle three. There is proximity 0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:18.640 there with two roads. Um. So Paul Jeffson wanders off, 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:20.719 let's say, from the family truck, gets a little board. 0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:22.239 Forget that he's been told to stay at the truck, 0:50:22.360 --> 0:50:24.719 so he just mos He's off, gets a little lost, 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:26.719 winds up at the highway, or he's picked up by 0:50:26.719 --> 0:50:29.480 a kindly helpful stranger who turned out to be a 0:50:29.520 --> 0:50:32.879 psycho killer. Uh and but and which I find more 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:35.520 believable than him getting wandering off and getting lost in 0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:39.480 the woods and dying of disposure, because as we said before, 0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:41.400 he was wearing a bright red jacket or as some 0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:44.200 reports have said, a bright red shirt and should have 0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:46.359 been easy enough to spot the body. Of course, there's 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:49.560 another possibility with Paul, which was that he didn't disappear 0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:54.160 at all. It was just parental abuse or negligence or negligence. 0:50:54.200 --> 0:50:57.520 And also I was about to say, thank you, is 0:50:57.600 --> 0:51:01.600 that if if his parents do some thing negligence was 0:51:01.680 --> 0:51:03.640 the word you used, and I'm going to continue with 0:51:03.760 --> 0:51:08.399 that word, or or if he got out and got 0:51:08.560 --> 0:51:12.560 I mean, pigs are mean. Pigs will knock somebody over 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:15.200 and bite them while they're like, I don't know if 0:51:15.239 --> 0:51:17.720 you've ever been bit by a pig, but the freaking hurts, 0:51:18.280 --> 0:51:21.160 and they got sharp little teeth and they can tear 0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:24.680 through things quite quickly. So it's entirely possible that they 0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:33.439 went ah hell in an hour called the cops they'll 0:51:33.440 --> 0:51:36.960 be done with him by then. But that does present 0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:40.640 a problem in that bloodhound dogs were able to track him. 0:51:41.200 --> 0:51:43.680 So there's a problem with that too though, because the 0:51:43.800 --> 0:51:48.680 problem is he disappeared in the afternoon, you know this 0:51:49.160 --> 0:51:52.680 three to four o' clock window. The dogs were brought 0:51:52.800 --> 0:51:58.359 in the next day. It rained heavily during the night, 0:51:58.880 --> 0:52:02.879 so those dogs didn't have a whole lot of scent 0:52:03.080 --> 0:52:05.759 to go on for him. So it's very possible that 0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:08.920 they picked up a wrong said and followed that to 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:10.759 the road. Well, I guess it's also possible that he 0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:13.040 ran to the road, realized he was at the road, 0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:16.360 ran back, went mom, got knocked over by some pigs, 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:21.040 I got eaten something like that. Yeah, possible. But there's 0:52:21.040 --> 0:52:24.719 a huge issue with the dogs because of the fact 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:27.680 that there was such heavy rains. Well, I mean, I 0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:30.120 guess that was my first thought. Honestly, when we started 0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:32.120 talking about Paul and there were pigs involved, I just 0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:39.520 generally think like, wow, the pigs, Yeah anything, people have 0:52:39.680 --> 0:52:42.239 fed people to the pigs. It has happened in real life. 0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:46.319 But you know, I think that pig for the pig. Yeah, 0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:49.799 I was still rape Paul is as a good possibility 0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:52.120 of you know, since he was in a pickup truck, 0:52:52.160 --> 0:52:53.960 that means he was on a road or right next 0:52:54.000 --> 0:52:56.719 to a road. Well, if they're at the dump, there's 0:52:56.719 --> 0:52:59.160 people that are coming to the dump. Yeah, but I 0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:01.600 see where you're goinging. I mean all three, there are 0:53:01.640 --> 0:53:04.560 at least three people who could have definitely just happened 0:53:04.600 --> 0:53:05.759 to be on the side of the road and in 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:11.080 need of help and a quote unquote kindly Yeah. Personally, yeah, 0:53:11.200 --> 0:53:14.080 I mean, particularly when we're talking about was a Patricia, right, 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:19.560 I mean, you know, she walks back, she she hitched there, 0:53:19.640 --> 0:53:22.120 she's got a hitch back, gets in the wrong car 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:24.360 and oops. Yeah, I don't Yeah, I think that that 0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:26.440 was what it was. Because the trailer she was on, 0:53:27.440 --> 0:53:30.120 it was in a valley and she really couldn't wander 0:53:30.239 --> 0:53:32.959 far off the trail either direction. There was a creek 0:53:33.080 --> 0:53:35.239 right next to it on one side, and on both 0:53:35.280 --> 0:53:38.920 sides it was very rough, large rocks, windfalls and brush 0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:42.480 and everything like that, and then steep, steep valley walls, 0:53:43.239 --> 0:53:45.680 not not a lot of places to get lost. It 0:53:45.719 --> 0:53:47.680 would have found her body if she'd been lost. But 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:50.799 but if she decides to do the same thing as 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:54.719 Frieda and take a shortcut. I know there were some 0:53:54.800 --> 0:53:58.759 switchbacks here, and I can just cut across and then 0:53:58.920 --> 0:54:02.560 follows it too far down. She could very easily get 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:05.920 way off of that trail, because you're right, it is 0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:09.759 valleys and and uh and decent. I mean, the photography 0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:11.520 isn't very nice in that area. I was looking at 0:54:11.600 --> 0:54:15.399 the contour maps. But the point is is that if 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:19.399 you foolishly decide to hell with it, I'm gonna get 0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:22.160 in the I'm going to get in the seam of 0:54:22.239 --> 0:54:24.719 these two hills and I'm going to follow it down 0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:27.480 and it's gonna take me to something. You can go 0:54:27.600 --> 0:54:31.279 a long way before you actually get to something, and 0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:34.280 that is a hard hike. It would be hard, especially 0:54:34.320 --> 0:54:37.480 in the dark. Yeah, or and with you know tennis shoes, 0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:47.399 we with the the lisanfrun cream Chris taste. I mean 0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:50.520 that that seemed like a likely possibility, right that they thought, oh, 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:54.520 we'll just follow this canyon down and oops, no, that's 0:54:54.560 --> 0:54:56.759 not That turned out to be their downfall. I mean, 0:54:56.800 --> 0:54:59.640 I think it happens, certainly, but it can happen. That 0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:02.600 about it is you would think you would find something, well, yeah, 0:55:02.640 --> 0:55:04.520 there is that you think you'd find something but also 0:55:05.040 --> 0:55:07.279 I read this blog or this guy who lives in 0:55:07.320 --> 0:55:10.520 the area went up and retraced your trail on that 0:55:10.760 --> 0:55:13.360 on long trail, and that's what he said. He said, like, 0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:15.319 you really aren't going to get far off the trail. 0:55:15.360 --> 0:55:17.080 I mean you could if you really wanted to. But 0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:19.360 he says it's so rough. There's so many big rocks 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:22.240 and and windfalls to have to climb over and everything. 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:24.920 He says, it going was so rough that he just 0:55:25.000 --> 0:55:27.799 thought it was really inconceivable that somebody could actually think 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:32.040 it would be easier to take a shortcut here to there. Well, 0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:35.560 it's hard to get I guess no, No, I mean 0:55:36.760 --> 0:55:39.040 essentially that's that was kind of his point. It's like 0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:42.200 it was such rough going, I mean, nobody would go 0:55:42.320 --> 0:55:45.800 more than about ten before realizing that this is just 0:55:45.920 --> 0:55:48.399 not going to pay off. Well, I almost wonder if 0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:52.000 if she had no idea of how the trail went right, 0:55:52.680 --> 0:55:55.959 and she might have thought, oh, it kind of goes 0:55:56.280 --> 0:56:00.080 parallel to the road, and she's she gets an hour in, 0:56:00.239 --> 0:56:02.160 Say she gets a couple of hours in and realizes, 0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:06.000 I don't have any water, I'm getting dehydrated, have any food, 0:56:06.360 --> 0:56:09.600 I'm freezing. I wasn't ready for this, and in her 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:12.680 mind she thinks and you know again it's it's one person. 0:56:12.920 --> 0:56:16.319 Because she thinks the road it's just over that little thing, 0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:18.640 you know. She starts to climb up that thing, and 0:56:19.120 --> 0:56:21.520 in her mind she's got to get there any minute. 0:56:21.960 --> 0:56:24.160 It wouldn't. I mean, you know, she would think it's 0:56:24.239 --> 0:56:27.439 this is definitely easier going than walking an hour back. 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:29.200 There's no way I can get an hour back. I'm 0:56:29.239 --> 0:56:32.080 so tired. And she's climbing and thinking, you know, oh 0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:35.200 my gosh, the road's right there, and you know is wrong, 0:56:35.320 --> 0:56:38.239 and you know, either decides I'll lay down and take 0:56:38.239 --> 0:56:43.600 a nap here or just hide for shelter. But let 0:56:43.680 --> 0:56:46.040 me throw this in there. They had like five planes 0:56:46.120 --> 0:56:48.640 also as part of this search, and there was there 0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:50.440 was like a lot of people out there beat the 0:56:50.480 --> 0:56:52.359 bush is looking for her. Oh no, I definitely more 0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:54.000 believe she got in the car with the serial killer. 0:56:54.080 --> 0:56:56.840 I'm just trying to add a little, but I actually 0:56:57.080 --> 0:57:00.800 disagree with the guy that you were reading the writings 0:57:00.880 --> 0:57:03.640 of who was saying nobody would get off of this trail, 0:57:04.080 --> 0:57:07.760 because I was reading blogs by guys who have hiked 0:57:07.800 --> 0:57:12.520 that entire trail, and they have for one I can't 0:57:12.560 --> 0:57:17.240 remember what organization it is that maintains the long trail, yeah, 0:57:17.320 --> 0:57:22.640 I can't, but but they they tell people to stay 0:57:22.720 --> 0:57:26.800 off of the trail. I want to say, from octobersh 0:57:27.040 --> 0:57:31.800 to like March, because it's so wet and it's so bad, 0:57:32.640 --> 0:57:36.520 and that's one reason. The other reason because it's washes 0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:39.120 out and it's slick and it's crappy, but it's also muddy. 0:57:39.760 --> 0:57:42.240 And this guy that I was reading who had hiked 0:57:42.360 --> 0:57:45.960 this trail, he had he'd actually classified it into six 0:57:46.120 --> 0:57:50.120 types of mud, from the slippery to the soggy to 0:57:50.400 --> 0:57:54.600 the boot removing type of mud. And you know, and 0:57:54.640 --> 0:57:56.680 if it's if it's all deciduous leaves and you can't 0:57:56.720 --> 0:57:58.240 tell what's going on, and you take it and you 0:57:58.360 --> 0:58:01.320 take a tumble in that, and you keep your walking 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:03.200 on what is supposed to be the trail and oh 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:06.200 my god, it's it's soggy and it's slick. You know 0:58:06.280 --> 0:58:08.760 what's easier people have been hiking over this. I'm just 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:11.040 gonna get off the trail a little bit and follow 0:58:11.120 --> 0:58:13.360 that because it won't be as bad because there's not 0:58:13.520 --> 0:58:16.600 as much foot traffic on it. Like, I can see 0:58:16.720 --> 0:58:19.600 why somebody would get off of the trail. But the 0:58:19.680 --> 0:58:22.000 thing about it is is you can't get I mean, 0:58:22.080 --> 0:58:25.480 the trail is essentially constrained by a mount by valley 0:58:25.520 --> 0:58:27.640 walls on both sides. I mean you can, you can't. 0:58:27.680 --> 0:58:29.600 You can get off the trail and walk parallel to it, 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:32.240 but you can't just walk up at sixty degrees without 0:58:32.400 --> 0:58:34.880 coming in. But if you but if you're walking parallel 0:58:34.960 --> 0:58:37.800 to it, and then you start drifting. So let's say 0:58:37.880 --> 0:58:41.080 she's on the downhill side of the trail because it 0:58:41.200 --> 0:58:45.440 seems like it's sugar footing, and then she starts just 0:58:45.880 --> 0:58:50.040 drifting down the slope a little bit and eventually gets 0:58:50.040 --> 0:58:51.959 herself to a point where she has no idea where 0:58:52.000 --> 0:58:54.120 the hell the trail is any I have. I have 0:58:54.200 --> 0:58:56.200 a problem with that, and that is that there were 0:58:56.320 --> 0:58:58.200 other a lot of other people on the trail, and 0:58:58.280 --> 0:59:01.480 they mentioned it was really us out, would they though 0:59:01.600 --> 0:59:04.280 in the nineteen forty well, no, this is I mean, 0:59:04.320 --> 0:59:07.720 it's clear weather, but the trail is gonna be soggy. 0:59:08.120 --> 0:59:10.560 But I mean, if you look at what is in 0:59:10.680 --> 0:59:14.280 the news articles, they don't really talk about the conditions. 0:59:14.320 --> 0:59:17.600 They're all focusing on her because she's a college aged girl, 0:59:18.000 --> 0:59:22.600 and her dad because he is a prominent industrialist, and 0:59:25.600 --> 0:59:27.640 they don't guess focus on that because the reporting of 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:30.480 the time doesn't encompass everything. They just this is what 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:33.240 people don't know. Well, I mean, regardless of that, I 0:59:33.400 --> 0:59:36.560 really think I agree with Joe that you know, if 0:59:36.600 --> 0:59:40.120 her body had been there would have been found. Yeah, 0:59:40.480 --> 0:59:42.439 I know, you don't seem to agree with No, I don't, 0:59:42.440 --> 0:59:45.040 but that's fine. Yeah, I just think it's much more 0:59:45.160 --> 0:59:47.440 lackly she made it out of there because you know, 0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:49.920 she was not dumb. I mean it's like, you know, 0:59:50.080 --> 0:59:52.520 it's like I think she would have just stuck with 0:59:52.600 --> 0:59:54.480 the trail and mose I'm back out and down to 0:59:54.520 --> 0:59:58.000 the road again. Unless she intentionally wandered away. Maybe she 0:59:58.240 --> 0:59:59.960 just wanted to go off a commit suicide. I mean, 1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:02.120 there there are people who say that she was having 1:00:02.160 --> 1:00:05.080 a she was not in good spirits lately, and there's 1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:08.600 the whole thing about her fight with her dead whatever 1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:11.360 that might have been, And it might have been some 1:00:11.960 --> 1:00:16.440 some suicide attempt that it was successful. Maybe she managed 1:00:16.480 --> 1:00:19.760 to do it and actually conceal herself. Yeah, she burrowed 1:00:19.800 --> 1:00:22.080 into a nook in the ground. There's caves in that area. 1:00:22.800 --> 1:00:25.800 She could have gone into a cave for shelter or 1:00:25.880 --> 1:00:30.200 intentionally to to die, and you know, nobody ever found 1:00:30.240 --> 1:00:33.400 her in that cave until you know, long after she's 1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:37.760 decomposed and the animals have scattered around and nobody notices it. Um, hey, 1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:40.640 wait a second, So I know this is probably my fault, 1:00:40.680 --> 1:00:44.320 but I got us way off a track and off 1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:48.160 trail we're looking at in front of us. So we're 1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:52.280 still on serial killer or because I feel like I 1:00:52.400 --> 1:00:54.880 drug us away from that, well maybe threw us into 1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:59.480 the We're sort of going back and forth between. We 1:00:59.560 --> 1:01:01.720 can't agree that they are necessarily meant the same fate, 1:01:04.840 --> 1:01:07.320 but we're talking. We're kind of on serial killer versus 1:01:07.400 --> 1:01:10.400 getting lost in the woods. I'm voting for she made 1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:13.040 it back to the Apollo made it back to the road. 1:01:13.320 --> 1:01:16.160 That's Highway nine hits the ride with a friendly stranger 1:01:16.240 --> 1:01:20.080 who was psycho and killed her. That's what I think happened. 1:01:20.200 --> 1:01:23.280 I think she met Bob, could have meant Bobs name 1:01:23.400 --> 1:01:30.160 cat Bobcat. Zerios does have bobcats, Yeah, and bobcats are 1:01:30.160 --> 1:01:32.919 a little Have you ever been scratched by a cat. Yeah, 1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:37.520 I'm just saying multiplay that by the size, like the area, 1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:40.840 they were considered a environment or a nuisance in the area. 1:01:41.480 --> 1:01:44.960 And while they used to be hunted for um what, 1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:47.080 I can't remember the reward because they would you know 1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:51.600 certain stat Yes, that's it, but there was there was that, 1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:54.000 and there are bear in the area. There's actually I 1:01:54.080 --> 1:01:56.200 guess bobcats aren't the only cat, but there are big 1:01:56.280 --> 1:01:58.959 cats in there. Yeah, we're talking about cougars or whatever. 1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:01.560 I'll accept to a bob cat. Okay, so if you 1:02:01.640 --> 1:02:03.919 say care though, if we say that kind of cat, 1:02:04.600 --> 1:02:07.360 it's entirely possible. Let's just pretend for a second that 1:02:08.480 --> 1:02:10.600 she didn't get taken by a person, but she did 1:02:10.720 --> 1:02:13.680 get taken by a cat. A lot of times those 1:02:13.760 --> 1:02:17.840 cats dragged their prey up into a truggers sugars do Yeah, 1:02:17.960 --> 1:02:20.479 which would you know? That would explain why nobody found 1:02:20.480 --> 1:02:23.320 her body on the ground. I was going to say, 1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:25.280 I just have to prove a point. Bobcats and max 1:02:25.320 --> 1:02:28.680 out at about twenty five pounds. But they're mean, but 1:02:28.800 --> 1:02:32.640 they're little, but they're mean but still anyway, so yeah, 1:02:32.680 --> 1:02:35.280 I mean, in case you're little and your mean that's 1:02:35.280 --> 1:02:40.320 true because I'm close to Hell. Oh yeah, So with Paul, 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:42.640 let's let's talk about a little bit more about well 1:02:42.920 --> 1:02:45.160 as far as there the mysterious disappearance you talked about 1:02:45.160 --> 1:02:47.800 that she might have nipped away to go pee. Remember 1:02:47.840 --> 1:02:49.640 she noticed she was being followed back up with the people. 1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:51.840 She wasn't sure who they were, what their attentions were. 1:02:51.920 --> 1:02:55.120 She a, yeah, you know, I could see that, or 1:02:55.240 --> 1:02:57.840 just didn't want human company. But I'm still thinking that. 1:02:58.080 --> 1:03:00.000 I think Paula made it back to the road. I agree, 1:03:00.240 --> 1:03:02.600 And she met a friendly but helpful and helpful stranger 1:03:02.880 --> 1:03:06.560 who offered to give her a ride. Yeah that's Bob uh. 1:03:06.840 --> 1:03:09.600 And then there's James Tedford. So that the three here 1:03:09.680 --> 1:03:12.200 that says Paul, Paula and James. Um. The thing that 1:03:12.320 --> 1:03:14.880 they haven't common for me is their proximity to a road. 1:03:14.960 --> 1:03:17.760 He was on a road on a bush. He was 1:03:17.840 --> 1:03:20.040 seen on the bus and remember that I think the 1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:22.919 relevant clue. Here's the bus schedule that they found laying 1:03:22.960 --> 1:03:25.040 on the seat next to him that was open. Yeah, 1:03:25.320 --> 1:03:27.440 and I'm thinking that James was sitting there in the 1:03:27.680 --> 1:03:30.440 bus station in Manchester, uh and probably had one of 1:03:30.480 --> 1:03:32.840 those momentary realized, Hey, you know, I probably need to 1:03:32.880 --> 1:03:34.680 go to the bathroom before we hit the road again. 1:03:35.280 --> 1:03:36.920 So you know, what do you do? He wants to 1:03:36.960 --> 1:03:39.080 know how much time he's got, so he pulls out 1:03:39.080 --> 1:03:41.240 the bus schedule and says, hey, I've got ten minutes 1:03:41.320 --> 1:03:45.120 for the bus leaves Manchester. So off he goes, and meantime, 1:03:45.200 --> 1:03:48.000 maybe his watches off, or maybe sometimes things in the 1:03:48.000 --> 1:03:49.880 bathroom just take a little longer to take that. Well, 1:03:49.920 --> 1:03:52.240 I mean alternately he thought, oh, I have time to 1:03:52.280 --> 1:03:55.240 go grab a piece of pie from that dine over there. 1:03:55.240 --> 1:03:58.160 It took a little longer, yeah, than anticipated. Well, and 1:03:58.240 --> 1:04:00.840 the thing is he because the buses had been so 1:04:01.120 --> 1:04:03.520 delayed by the snowstorm that was going on at the 1:04:03.600 --> 1:04:07.439 time he had There's accounts that somebody that knew him 1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:12.000 ran into him at one of the bus stops and 1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:15.080 chatted with him. So, I mean, it wasn't as if 1:04:15.120 --> 1:04:17.600 he was just hiding on the bus the entire time. 1:04:18.640 --> 1:04:21.120 But you would get off, I mean, you get off 1:04:21.160 --> 1:04:24.360 and stretch your legs. But I have huge problems with 1:04:24.480 --> 1:04:30.440 the Tedford story. Yeah, well that not everything was has 1:04:30.480 --> 1:04:33.520 been consistently reported. Well, the yeah, the problem is is 1:04:33.640 --> 1:04:36.080 that he was on this bus. We think, you know, 1:04:36.560 --> 1:04:41.160 around the first of December, but the Old Soul is 1:04:41.200 --> 1:04:43.920 it the old Soldier's home. Yeah, that's where he was at, right, 1:04:44.040 --> 1:04:46.920 that's where he was staying. They called. They called his 1:04:47.120 --> 1:04:50.880 family a week later to say, hey, so, like, is 1:04:50.960 --> 1:04:54.200 he really coming back or what because we're holding his bed, 1:04:55.080 --> 1:04:57.720 at which point then his family turns around and calls 1:04:57.800 --> 1:05:00.360 the cops, and the cops then tracked down the bus 1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:04.040 driver and the people that are on the bus of 1:05:04.320 --> 1:05:09.120 week after that. Literally there's full two weeks of time 1:05:09.240 --> 1:05:14.200 between the actual incident and when the cops talk to him. 1:05:14.240 --> 1:05:16.480 So these people like, oh yeah, I remember looking over 1:05:16.560 --> 1:05:18.440 and totally seen him sleeping on the bus with the 1:05:18.480 --> 1:05:21.000 schedule next to him. Oh yeah, it was weird that 1:05:21.080 --> 1:05:23.640 I noticed he wasn't there, And it's made out to 1:05:23.720 --> 1:05:28.640 be as if minutes between these events it's you know, 1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:32.160 there's problems with that one, but well there's problems with it, 1:05:32.240 --> 1:05:34.360 but still and and so, and that's why I don't 1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:37.120 I don't see this one in terms of him vanishing 1:05:37.520 --> 1:05:40.840 just like that, like by magic off the moving bus. Yeah, 1:05:41.080 --> 1:05:42.720 you know, I never bought that to begin with that, 1:05:43.120 --> 1:05:45.280 he never spared off the yellow bus. Now, I figured 1:05:45.320 --> 1:05:47.640 he got off the magic school bus. He had the 1:05:47.680 --> 1:05:50.760 magic but but you know, so I figured he got 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:53.400 off the bus. Nonetheless, he did disappear. There ain't no 1:05:53.480 --> 1:05:55.600 disputing that. And it could have been that he just 1:05:55.840 --> 1:05:58.280 ran away. It could have been and which is possible. 1:05:58.920 --> 1:06:00.800 Or it could be that he got off the bus 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:03.680 and history with a friendly, helpful stranger turned out to 1:06:03.760 --> 1:06:08.400 be a psycho killer. Or he could have just become, 1:06:08.760 --> 1:06:13.840 you know, part of the moving, massive homeless people that 1:06:14.040 --> 1:06:17.240 that shuffle around in those areas. I mean, he doesn't 1:06:17.400 --> 1:06:20.560 have anything to really go back to at the Old 1:06:20.640 --> 1:06:26.040 Soldiers Home other than he's paid for I'm assuming he 1:06:26.160 --> 1:06:28.800 paid for unless the Feds were paying for the Old 1:06:28.840 --> 1:06:31.680 Soldiers So I don't know how those work, but let's 1:06:31.720 --> 1:06:33.520 just say that he's not paying for anything. He's like, 1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:37.440 you know what, That place really blows and I really 1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:41.680 hate listening to Bob tell war stories all day long. 1:06:42.880 --> 1:06:47.760 Screw it, I'm gonna hang out here. And then it's December. 1:06:48.160 --> 1:06:50.920 There's a giant freaking snowstorm. He gets kicked out of 1:06:50.960 --> 1:06:53.480 the bus station, and he dies in an alley of 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:57.520 exposure with no idea on him. Because somebody rolls his 1:06:57.640 --> 1:07:00.560 body over and steals his wallet, we would never know 1:07:01.360 --> 1:07:04.360 because the emmy is going to have nothing to identify 1:07:04.520 --> 1:07:09.880 him with. Like, there's very simple ways, especially with Tedford. Yeah, no, 1:07:10.000 --> 1:07:11.640 there are, I mean there are there are other ways. 1:07:11.800 --> 1:07:15.760 But again, somebody local freezes to death, and and meantime 1:07:16.240 --> 1:07:19.680 Tedford has disappeared, somebody's gonna make at least a little 1:07:19.680 --> 1:07:21.760 bit of an effort to connect those thoughts. I would think, 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.360 I don't know that that's the case, because the cops 1:07:24.440 --> 1:07:26.480 are going and hunting down these people that are now 1:07:26.640 --> 1:07:30.200 far Afield and maybe the local man let's just say 1:07:30.240 --> 1:07:32.200 it was Manchester. Is that who you were saying? If 1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:36.000 it was the local Manchester p D may not have 1:07:36.160 --> 1:07:40.120 been the ones that were investigating. Yeah, well, I mean 1:07:40.200 --> 1:07:42.120 they might not have, but you would think there's some 1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:46.400 sort of register of local missing people. I don't know. 1:07:46.800 --> 1:07:49.800 In the fifties is sometimes it feels like they played 1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:53.880 things a little more fast and loose, whereas today everything 1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:56.920 is just you know, fill in the forms. It's all 1:07:57.000 --> 1:07:58.800 the data we can. We always pull it in access 1:07:58.880 --> 1:08:01.920 that we know exactly what's going on, generally speaking, and 1:08:01.960 --> 1:08:04.959 I guess it's not a perfect system. But I don't 1:08:05.040 --> 1:08:08.920 feel like that's the case in you know, typewriters and 1:08:09.680 --> 1:08:13.400 rolodex days. No, I mean, it definitely was all manual. 1:08:13.440 --> 1:08:15.600 I mean you couldn't have computer cross matching or anything. 1:08:16.280 --> 1:08:19.559 But again, people were, people were reading the local papers, 1:08:19.600 --> 1:08:22.200 people would have seen his pictures and and so it's 1:08:22.240 --> 1:08:25.120 it'sn't theoretically, but it's theoretically possible that what you're saying, 1:08:25.120 --> 1:08:26.920 it's you. I find it actually a little easier to 1:08:26.960 --> 1:08:28.920 believe that he got off the bus at some point 1:08:29.040 --> 1:08:31.880 and was and was nabbed by a serial killer. But 1:08:32.200 --> 1:08:35.080 you know, marginally, but I admit that what you're talking 1:08:35.120 --> 1:08:38.240 about is also possible. I mean, Sarah, killers are actually 1:08:38.560 --> 1:08:42.760 sometimes easier to believe, you know. I'm mostly just say, yeah, 1:08:42.800 --> 1:08:45.800 he got off the bus at Manchester and walking, missed 1:08:45.840 --> 1:08:49.160 the bus and I don't know what happened, and then 1:08:49.280 --> 1:08:52.559 just caught another bus to somewhere else and started over, 1:08:52.800 --> 1:08:56.280 started working and named himself Benjamin Kyle and got on 1:08:56.400 --> 1:08:59.519 with it entirely. That's entirely possible, right there. No, it 1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:02.200 is poss well, I mean, it's it's an interesting little story, 1:09:02.479 --> 1:09:06.080 and certainly maybe he was murdered but there's other possibilities. Um, 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:08.679 so yeah, I mean and and so it's really hard 1:09:08.720 --> 1:09:10.880 to say with all these if they're related at all. 1:09:10.880 --> 1:09:13.880 I think they might be. It's entirely possible that there 1:09:13.960 --> 1:09:16.559 was there's a serial killer doing something. What about Frieda though, Okay, 1:09:16.600 --> 1:09:20.960 so I didn't talk about Freedo. No, we haven't talked, 1:09:21.120 --> 1:09:25.320 because we've talked about Paul and Paula and Paul and 1:09:25.400 --> 1:09:29.240 Paula and James and and well so we you yeah, 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:31.000 because earlier you said you thought it was probably a 1:09:31.080 --> 1:09:34.040 hunting access So what about Frieda because she's the only one, 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:36.280 so she's the last one. Well, and Freeda is the 1:09:36.320 --> 1:09:38.840 one that I say is I don't you know, so 1:09:39.040 --> 1:09:41.360 far away from the whole Bennington area, you can't really 1:09:41.360 --> 1:09:44.559 say she's part of the triangle anyway. But that's another 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:46.880 one that's kind of like Middy and that, and that 1:09:47.640 --> 1:09:51.200 it would have taken a very very very skilled and 1:09:51.439 --> 1:09:54.439 hannibal elector type of serial killer to naver in the 1:09:54.479 --> 1:09:57.320 woods just for one thing to just be lucky enough 1:09:57.400 --> 1:09:59.800 to be happening to be right there. Once she had 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:01.840 hustling by, to go back to the camp to change 1:10:01.880 --> 1:10:05.080 your clothes, and and then nab her and Carter off 1:10:05.120 --> 1:10:07.479 to god knows where and do his thing and murder 1:10:07.560 --> 1:10:10.440 her and everything. That's why I think there's other possibilities 1:10:10.479 --> 1:10:12.680 she could have gotten lost. I don't think so. And 1:10:12.800 --> 1:10:14.960 the reason I say that is because how they found 1:10:15.000 --> 1:10:17.519 your body. I think most likely she went back to camp. 1:10:17.640 --> 1:10:20.320 She and her husband argued the husband killed her accidentally 1:10:20.400 --> 1:10:22.599 or not hit the body, and then you know, later 1:10:22.760 --> 1:10:25.599 on when it was more opportunity time in the search 1:10:25.680 --> 1:10:28.320 had died, anyone back and retreated the body and dumped 1:10:28.360 --> 1:10:32.040 it somewhere else. Hit it where that inter sleeping bag 1:10:32.240 --> 1:10:34.120 because those are so easy to roll up, and you 1:10:34.160 --> 1:10:36.840 would never tell that it was lumpy and full of 1:10:37.000 --> 1:10:40.160 human That's true. No, really, I actually I'm being a jerk. 1:10:40.240 --> 1:10:43.280 But she she makes a really good point of how 1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:47.919 do you hide the body and then have that massive 1:10:48.040 --> 1:10:50.479 people come looking? Well, here's the deal. If you hide 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:52.920 the body like ten or twenty ft from the camp sign, 1:10:53.120 --> 1:10:56.920 nobody's gonna look there. Are you sure? I'm sure? If 1:10:56.960 --> 1:10:58.720 they say, hey, i'm gonna look, I'm gonna look right 1:10:58.800 --> 1:11:00.800 over here behind this stuff, can just say I just 1:11:00.920 --> 1:11:03.120 want to pe behind that stump. I know, for sure 1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:07.559 she's not there. So Steve, when Joe finally murders me, yeah, 1:11:08.160 --> 1:11:12.160 make sure to do a really thorough search wherever the 1:11:12.240 --> 1:11:16.000 last place. Just be like, hey, Joe, where were you 1:11:16.160 --> 1:11:18.760 last And he'll be like, oh, behind that stump, and 1:11:18.800 --> 1:11:21.040 you'll be like, great, that's definitely where Evan's body is. 1:11:21.240 --> 1:11:23.800 That's it. That's it, I know. But that's that's just 1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:26.680 a possibility. I mean, obviously maybe a murder, maybe the 1:11:26.760 --> 1:11:29.240 husband did it. I don't know, Uh, I don't. I 1:11:29.280 --> 1:11:31.920 don't see her getting lost though, really because she had 1:11:31.920 --> 1:11:33.800 all kinds of people out there beating the brush looking 1:11:33.880 --> 1:11:37.599 for her. But if she took the shortcut and I actually, 1:11:37.720 --> 1:11:39.400 so this is the other thing. I know I said 1:11:39.439 --> 1:11:44.240 this before with Paula, But she's also going to be 1:11:44.479 --> 1:11:47.200 in an area that is a deciduous forest, which is 1:11:47.400 --> 1:11:51.200 known for I mean, for the love of God, the 1:11:51.479 --> 1:11:55.280 Northeast is known for their fall and the number of 1:11:55.479 --> 1:11:59.240 leaves that change color and then hit the ground. And 1:11:59.479 --> 1:12:01.360 I'm sure I know Davin has I don't know if 1:12:01.439 --> 1:12:03.920 you have, Joe, but I've walked through those fours when 1:12:04.000 --> 1:12:07.599 it's nothing but leaves, and depending on where you're at, 1:12:07.800 --> 1:12:11.120 you know, it can be six inches or more of 1:12:11.280 --> 1:12:15.760 leaf litter, and also can happen seemingly over a night. Yes, 1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:18.240 you know, I mean it can be like, well, there's 1:12:18.280 --> 1:12:20.880 no way I mean it was. It wasn't it was 1:12:20.920 --> 1:12:23.320 twenty four hours ago. There's no way that this leaf 1:12:23.400 --> 1:12:25.920 cover is. I don't need to poke it because there's 1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:28.479 no way there's a body under there. But I mean 1:12:28.560 --> 1:12:30.680 it could have had all of those trees could have 1:12:30.760 --> 1:12:33.320 just lost their leaves in the last twenty four hours. 1:12:33.520 --> 1:12:36.040 So like in the case of Paula, it's entirely possible 1:12:36.080 --> 1:12:38.760 that let's say there's I'm gonna use a log, there's 1:12:38.760 --> 1:12:41.360 a log on the ground, and she curls up next 1:12:41.400 --> 1:12:44.680 to it as a wind break and dies of exposure, 1:12:44.960 --> 1:12:48.800 and then the trees above her all the side to 1:12:49.080 --> 1:12:51.160 let go of their leaves at one time, and she 1:12:51.360 --> 1:12:54.479 is completely covered and it is just a log shaped 1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:57.360 hump in the ground. And somebody goes, oh, well, it's 1:12:57.439 --> 1:13:00.280 just a log, okay, and they keep they don't searched 1:13:00.360 --> 1:13:03.280 the entire length of it. Well, that's that's one reason. 1:13:03.400 --> 1:13:05.600 That's the one reason too that I'm not that enthusiastic 1:13:05.600 --> 1:13:07.519 about lumping this in with the rest of the Bennington 1:13:07.560 --> 1:13:12.760 disappearances anyway, because it's it's far Paula, though not freed 1:13:13.040 --> 1:13:16.360 oh paul I was talking about for Paula. Paula. Paula 1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:19.240 disappeared December one. I mean Arnold leaves down by that 1:13:19.360 --> 1:13:24.120 time in New England. Wouldn't free to disappear, free to 1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:27.840 disappear October? Okay, So yeah, okay, I'm getting them back. 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:31.840 I apologize. I think I agree. I mean, I think 1:13:31.960 --> 1:13:36.120 Frieda shouldn't be lumped in anyway. Her body was found 1:13:36.760 --> 1:13:39.840 and she could possibly have wandered off. I mean, that's 1:13:39.880 --> 1:13:42.080 the only thing about it is I think she was murdered. 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:45.400 Well I think probably too, because here's the deal. Is that, 1:13:45.800 --> 1:13:48.719 so she falls into the creek, she tells her cousin 1:13:48.960 --> 1:13:50.880 to go ahead and continue at the trail. She's just 1:13:50.960 --> 1:13:54.479 gonna dash back, change close, come back and meet him. Therefore, 1:13:54.760 --> 1:13:57.160 they could not have been very far from camp at all. 1:13:57.360 --> 1:13:59.000 I want to know why the hell her cousin didn't 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:01.840 just walk back with her or just wait or just 1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:04.559 yeah or just wait. Yeah. It is a little weird. 1:14:04.880 --> 1:14:06.479 But the thing about it is is they had to 1:14:06.560 --> 1:14:09.160 have been close enough that if she had gotten lost, 1:14:09.400 --> 1:14:11.719 or fallen and broken her ankle or whatever. She should 1:14:11.760 --> 1:14:15.719 have been within hearing. Just she should have been, because otherwise, 1:14:15.760 --> 1:14:17.680 how could she possibly hope to go all the way back, 1:14:17.840 --> 1:14:19.679 change your clothes, come all the way back and catch 1:14:19.760 --> 1:14:22.760 up with him unless they were really close. Maybe she 1:14:22.760 --> 1:14:24.720 went to town for a beer run. Yeah, maybe she 1:14:24.800 --> 1:14:26.559 just decided if she was going to disappear and start 1:14:26.600 --> 1:14:29.800 a new life and call herself Bernie Sanders. Yeah, that 1:14:29.840 --> 1:14:32.879 could have been twice. Bernie Sanders is in this episode 1:14:33.439 --> 1:14:35.960 two different people. Yeah, she was fifty three at the time. 1:14:36.000 --> 1:14:39.200 That would make her about the right agg given that 1:14:39.280 --> 1:14:49.200 Bernie Sanders is exactly Okay then of the series. No, 1:14:49.479 --> 1:14:51.479 I mean, I it's hard. It's very hard to say, 1:14:51.600 --> 1:14:53.640 but there there does seem like there were a bit 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:57.120 more than the average disappearances in this little area. Uh 1:14:57.280 --> 1:15:01.240 that but doesn't necessarily made a supervene a triangular and time. Yeah, 1:15:01.280 --> 1:15:03.200 I mean, part of it is just there's a really 1:15:03.320 --> 1:15:07.360 hard trail right there. Yeah, the trail the serial killer. 1:15:07.760 --> 1:15:10.160 That'll count for some of it. It's interesting that it 1:15:10.240 --> 1:15:14.040 all stopped in nine Okay, So I mean, I I 1:15:14.240 --> 1:15:16.880 really think that the only theory that loops all of 1:15:16.960 --> 1:15:19.439 these together neatly in a nice little bow is aliens, 1:15:20.240 --> 1:15:23.040 that's true. I say it's the state of Vermont is 1:15:23.080 --> 1:15:25.479 the only thing that connects these people, and that's it. 1:15:27.520 --> 1:15:31.040 I think Bigfoot and I like Vermont, but I'm blaming 1:15:31.160 --> 1:15:34.040 Vermont because they all happen to live there. Damn. Actually, 1:15:34.080 --> 1:15:36.080 you know what, before we get too far the you 1:15:36.160 --> 1:15:38.439 know who we have there was one of the things 1:15:38.479 --> 1:15:41.439 for Middy rivers. So you do know that there's a 1:15:41.800 --> 1:15:44.280 whole there's a number of ghost towns in that area, right, 1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:48.680 I've heard this. The lumber industry kind of went away, right, Well, 1:15:48.760 --> 1:15:51.479 it was the lumber industry that they're making charcoal. So 1:15:51.640 --> 1:15:54.160 there is the there is a theory out there that 1:15:54.680 --> 1:15:58.560 there were old wells and that Middy, MIDDI and or 1:15:58.680 --> 1:16:01.960 maybe one or two of the other people accidentally stumbled 1:16:02.000 --> 1:16:04.559 across an old well and they're actually in the bottom 1:16:04.640 --> 1:16:07.840 of that and not in the bottom of a well 1:16:08.000 --> 1:16:10.000 with a man who says it puts the lotion on 1:16:10.120 --> 1:16:14.240 its skin. He's too old for that, so that doesn't 1:16:14.240 --> 1:16:16.880 really know. Yeah, I know that one for the lotion 1:16:16.960 --> 1:16:22.960 you mean yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, good point. No, Yeah, 1:16:23.000 --> 1:16:25.200 there's always there's always the old well thing. Although you 1:16:25.400 --> 1:16:28.960 think that Timmy in the well, oh yeah, but you 1:16:29.120 --> 1:16:31.200 think that if there was that much of that going on, 1:16:31.280 --> 1:16:34.120 there would be more disappearances. Although maybe people got smarter 1:16:34.200 --> 1:16:38.040 about avoiding wells. You know, I don't know. They're just 1:16:38.160 --> 1:16:44.600 full of bodies now anymore and padded fall in. But 1:16:44.720 --> 1:16:47.880 it's like a clump, crunch and climb back out and 1:16:48.600 --> 1:16:55.679 question ever happen? Yeah, it's rather gross. Okay, yeah, well, okay, 1:16:55.720 --> 1:16:59.599 a little housekeeping here, hey, yeah, well, first off, you're 1:16:59.640 --> 1:17:01.559 probably wanting to know how you can get a hold 1:17:01.600 --> 1:17:03.439 of us, And of course we have an email, this 1:17:03.640 --> 1:17:07.760 thing called email, and our email address is Thinking Sideways 1:17:07.920 --> 1:17:11.400 Podcast at gmail dot com. And of course we have 1:17:11.439 --> 1:17:15.440 a website that is amazingly enough called Thinking Sideways podcast 1:17:15.800 --> 1:17:19.720 dot com where you can actually download episodes that you 1:17:19.760 --> 1:17:23.800 can listen and all that stuff. Comments are off. But 1:17:23.920 --> 1:17:27.840 also we have a link to like uh merch and 1:17:27.880 --> 1:17:29.760 stuff like that. In by T shirts, I'm wearing a 1:17:29.800 --> 1:17:32.360 T shirt right now, Oh my gosh, you are, well 1:17:32.439 --> 1:17:36.720 not just any old T shirt, that Thinking Sideways T shirt. Yeah. Um, 1:17:37.000 --> 1:17:39.120 And there's a mugs and stickers and all kinds of 1:17:39.160 --> 1:17:42.360 fun stuff like that. You will also find us on iTunes, 1:17:42.479 --> 1:17:45.719 where you can download us. You can subscribe, which is awesome. 1:17:45.920 --> 1:17:48.040 You can rate us, give us a review, preferably a 1:17:48.120 --> 1:17:51.599 really good review. Uh, and where else you can stream 1:17:51.680 --> 1:17:55.240 us all kinds of places like Google Play and everywhere else. Well, 1:17:55.640 --> 1:17:58.200 you've probably heard of the stinkcoed social media. So we 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:01.000 are on Facebook, where we have a group and a page. 1:18:01.200 --> 1:18:03.680 So join the group, like the page or was it 1:18:03.760 --> 1:18:06.120 like the group and join the page? I can't remember. Okay, 1:18:06.200 --> 1:18:09.760 that's good. We're on Twitter, where we are thinking sideways 1:18:09.880 --> 1:18:11.519 and where you can see a picture of Joe in 1:18:11.600 --> 1:18:15.800 his shirt. Oh yeah, and we have a subreddit thinking sideways. 1:18:16.479 --> 1:18:18.439 Oh god, what else that's going on? That's about it. 1:18:18.640 --> 1:18:21.120 I think cool. Alright, Well in okay, thank for me 1:18:21.200 --> 1:18:23.479 to mosey on down the trail. I'm going back to 1:18:23.560 --> 1:18:26.120 Blue Ben. Good for you. I'm going to ask the 1:18:26.160 --> 1:18:27.040 bears what they think.