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Speaker 1: I don't know stories of things we simply don't know
Speaker 1: the answer to. Well, hi there, and welcome to an
Speaker 1: other episode of Thinking Sudways. I'm Joe, joined as always
Speaker 1: by Steve and exactly, Devin and E V Y I
Speaker 1: z k W autostrophe L y I sweet. All right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why that is always messing it up. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got okay, all right, Well back to the important part
Speaker 1: of the mystery, which is uh, yeah, well that's important.
Speaker 1: But we talked about that on Facebook. Two, let's talk
Speaker 1: about this week's mystery, Yeah, which is there's a strange
Speaker 1: geographical patch of area in the northeastern United States where
Speaker 1: people just vanish, don't don't do exactly. Some people call
Speaker 1: it the Bennington Triangle, although that was actually kind of
Speaker 1: a recent appellation. I think that happened in the nineties.
Speaker 1: Somebody actually tagged at a se Bennington trying, which is
Speaker 1: long after people stopped disappearing there. Actually. But by the way,
Speaker 1: I shout out to Nicole Hei Nicole, because she suggested
Speaker 1: this one. Nicole. Yeah, by the way, technically I think
Speaker 1: people are still being said to disappear in this triangle. Well,
Speaker 1: I think the most recent one I saw was two
Speaker 1: thousand eleven. Oh you're talking about Yeah, I know how
Speaker 1: you're talking about that seventeen year old kid. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: but he was like he was actually from like clear
Speaker 1: across the state over like Rattleborough or someone like that. Listen,
Speaker 1: you can't confine the boundaries of this triangle justice one
Speaker 1: geographic area. Yeah, sorry, you kind of like and there's
Speaker 1: enough you can't handle the geography, Okay, I gotta I
Speaker 1: gotta be more fluid in my thinking. I get what
Speaker 1: you're saying, yeah, there's actually there's five classic disappearances that
Speaker 1: always get lumped in with these, and one of these
Speaker 1: is actually kind of another one is actually kind of
Speaker 1: far away too. Yeah, but oh well we'll talk. Let's
Speaker 1: let's deal with it here. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna start
Speaker 1: this off kind of randomly. We'll start with the most
Speaker 1: fascinating one, because this was the appearance of James Edward Tedford,
Speaker 1: who vanished off a bus. Yeah. Now, at least it's
Speaker 1: not Edward Edward Tedford. But and I just got just
Speaker 1: a circular whose name was Edward Edwards is Edward W. Edwards,
Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of weird unless his middle
Speaker 1: name was maybe Ward. I think I worked with a
Speaker 1: guy whose name was Edward Edwards. Might have been the
Speaker 1: same guy, hopefully not. Yeah, but yeah, sorry, so so
Speaker 1: ed ted Oh yeah, yeah, so James ed ted He
Speaker 1: vanished off a bus somewhere between eight St. Albans, Vermont
Speaker 1: and Bennington, Vermont. Geographically speaking, they are at the north
Speaker 1: and south south ends of the states. Respect Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: give you a quick background on James Tedfordum, he was
Speaker 1: born it's believed around eighteen eighty four and about the
Speaker 1: time he disappeared, he would have been in his late sixties. Uh.
Speaker 1: He had actually been conscripted apparently for World War Two.
Speaker 1: You've done like two different tours. Is that sounds right
Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah. He I don't imagine they had
Speaker 1: him out there like you know, and you know, in
Speaker 1: the infantry or anything because of his age. But picking
Speaker 1: stripted a lot of people who were like well passed
Speaker 1: the standard military Asian World War two. But he was
Speaker 1: married to a much younger woman, and apparently she vanished
Speaker 1: when he came back from the war. She was gone
Speaker 1: literally half his age, yeah, something like that. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so he was fifty, yeah, and she was twenty eight.
Speaker 1: I remember that when she disappeared quote unquote disappeared. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's quite so mysterious. She just found
Speaker 1: somebody else and that was that. So but so he um,
Speaker 1: he decided to check himself into a like an old
Speaker 1: soldier's home in Bennington, Vermont, which she probably shouldn't have
Speaker 1: done in retrospect, home of the Apple Barn. Yeah it
Speaker 1: is it really, yeah, but it's fine. Let's keep going.
Speaker 1: I did not know that, yeah, Manning, And actually I
Speaker 1: believe it is like you know, like the burial place
Speaker 1: of Robert Frost, isn't it I think it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's a little more history there than there is
Speaker 1: a here in Portland. But but anyway, he he had
Speaker 1: family in St Albans Uh survery the time of the
Speaker 1: year he was up there in late November. I'm assuming
Speaker 1: it was for Thanksgiving, yeah yeah, and then see on
Speaker 1: God on this bus uh in St Albans And and
Speaker 1: if he had disappeared in St Alberns, it would not
Speaker 1: have been a surprise. It's of course up there near
Speaker 1: the Kanuckish standing border. You know, our neighbors to the north,
Speaker 1: the Kanuck kanukis Stan and Uh. And in those days,
Speaker 1: nomadic bands of fierce Kanucky tribesmen were often crossing the
Speaker 1: border and carrying helpless Americans off in the bondage to
Speaker 1: be slaves or concubines or valets or whatever. Um. And
Speaker 1: then after the U. S. Canada War nineteen fifty six,
Speaker 1: we installed Dance Strubberry on our side of the border
Speaker 1: and that pretty much solved the problem. Yeah, yeah, thank God.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but he didn't disappear in St Albans. He
Speaker 1: disappeared way further south, what happened is sometime not long
Speaker 1: before December one, nineteen forty nine, he boarded that bus
Speaker 1: in St Albans and headed back to Bennington. Bus one
Speaker 1: south on Highway seven which I believe is now Highways
Speaker 1: seven A on the maps. If you look at it
Speaker 1: on Google, it looks like the old highway is now
Speaker 1: seven A and then the new highways is seven. Now.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised by that. They do that all
Speaker 1: the time. Oh yeah, Yeah, there's just ones like this
Speaker 1: where there's like old patches of the old one that
Speaker 1: there's some some of it that goes over the old one,
Speaker 1: and then they just sort of branch off from one another. Um.
Speaker 1: But normally this was about an eight hour trip, and
Speaker 1: that I heard it was longer this particular one because
Speaker 1: there was snow. Yeah, I think it was delayed by
Speaker 1: six or eight hours. Yeah, which would make for a
Speaker 1: tedious bus trip. But witnesses did see James Tadford board
Speaker 1: the bus and Saint Albans uh and witnesses on the
Speaker 1: bus and including I believe the driver saw him on
Speaker 1: the bus at their last stop, which I'm guessing was
Speaker 1: man second. I thought it was the last stopment well,
Speaker 1: I guess it would be the second to last, second
Speaker 1: last stop before Bennington. Correct, yeah, second to last stop, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to assume that that was Manchester, which
Speaker 1: is about twenty miles north of Bennington. I don't really
Speaker 1: know that for h let's just assume for the sake
Speaker 1: of assuming that it was Manchester. Um, so, his fellow
Speaker 1: passengers see him on the bus in Manchester. But then
Speaker 1: the bus arrives in Bennington and Tedford was gone. He
Speaker 1: was doing His luggage was still on the bus. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't understand what we have times on this. Just
Speaker 1: just let it go, okay, sorry, just let it go.
Speaker 1: But anyway, his luggage was on the bus. Uh, and
Speaker 1: it was also an open bus timetable sitting on the
Speaker 1: seat next to where he had been sitting. But that
Speaker 1: was it. He was gone. Nobody saw him leave the bus.
Speaker 1: I saw, uh, it wasn't read it. It was a
Speaker 1: similar kind of website. I saw somebody theoriz said he
Speaker 1: had wanted to go off and start a new life,
Speaker 1: and so when he got to Bennington he just slid
Speaker 1: down and hid underneath his seat. Yeah, but that was yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: those you know, even in the old days. I doubt
Speaker 1: that they were that roomy underneath there. Well, but even still,
Speaker 1: like like, that's not the first place the bus driver
Speaker 1: is gonna look like, oh, I'll just peek under the seats,
Speaker 1: like at least to see if he left anything. Huh, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, I mean, but yeah, so it's maybe he
Speaker 1: was little. Maybe he was that could have been people
Speaker 1: back in those days where it's true. That's a good point,
Speaker 1: but I find that hard to believe. But anyway, so
Speaker 1: he vanished from a moving bus in air apparently zip yeah,
Speaker 1: teleported away by the aliens. His family reported missing to
Speaker 1: the police on December one, and of course there was
Speaker 1: a search, there was there were lots of newspaper articles
Speaker 1: about it. But James Tedford never showed up again and
Speaker 1: they never found him. They never found his body. That
Speaker 1: was it into thin air. So that was one of
Speaker 1: the more notable disappearances in the Bennington triangle. So this
Speaker 1: guy just I mean, it was a strange story because
Speaker 1: we used to these stories about some guy who wanted
Speaker 1: off into the woods and it's never seen again. Well
Speaker 1: that happens, get eaten by bears or something. Disappearing off
Speaker 1: a bus traveling down the highway. You can understand why
Speaker 1: this story is has been so popular with the UFO crowd. Right, well,
Speaker 1: so many questions, so many questions, and will we Okay,
Speaker 1: the fologist in me is not happy about this. You
Speaker 1: don't like this one. No, the follogist in me is
Speaker 1: not happy that we're putting on. We're putting off talking
Speaker 1: about but okay, let's talk about Let's talk about the
Speaker 1: next one. Okay, we will, um, yeah, so we'll talk
Speaker 1: about the aliens Teleportinghi off the bus here in a
Speaker 1: little bit. But he wasn't the first of the last
Speaker 1: person to just vanish in the triangle. Exactly three years
Speaker 1: before somebody else also disappeared to the day. Well I
Speaker 1: don't know. He was reported missing on December one, and
Speaker 1: this other person disappeared on December one, so Ted Firs,
Speaker 1: I mean, well, yeah, it's just pretty much on the
Speaker 1: day his bus his bus ride was on the first?
Speaker 1: Was it on the first? His his bus ride was
Speaker 1: this right here? He was on a bus sometime on
Speaker 1: or just before before. I fighted that a little bit
Speaker 1: much because yeah, I wasn't really sure it might have
Speaker 1: been the day before, but still close enough for government work, right,
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, they're not that far. I mean, Vermont's
Speaker 1: not giant. No, it's a it's a tight little place.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, okay, um but okay, three years
Speaker 1: before this person who disappeared actually did wander off into
Speaker 1: the woods. So okay, that's a little more like it.
Speaker 1: That's kind of more what we used to And her
Speaker 1: name was Paula gene Weldon. She was eighteen student at
Speaker 1: Bennington College, which is in North Bennington. So why did
Speaker 1: I'll call it North Bennington College. I don't quite get it.
Speaker 1: I mean, if it's going to be in North Bennington,
Speaker 1: it should be called North Bennington College, right. North Bennington
Speaker 1: is separate from Bennington. Uh. And it's not a neighborhood
Speaker 1: of Bennington. It's it's a whole another town, part of
Speaker 1: the greater Bennington area. Yeah, it's probably part of the
Speaker 1: metro area or something like that. But there's definitely some
Speaker 1: green space in between the two. It's not a suburb really,
Speaker 1: um and so, and it's also northwest of Bennington. So
Speaker 1: I don't know what's not called Northwest Bennington because it's
Speaker 1: north of Benington. It's north but it's really Northwest. It's
Speaker 1: still worth of it. I think you're going to get
Speaker 1: so many angry emails from the people of that town. Okay, sorry,
Speaker 1: Bennington North End regular that you don't need to be
Speaker 1: angry with us. Actually I got us by the way,
Speaker 1: just just to give you guys a compliment. I gotta
Speaker 1: street you, of course, and did a little tour of
Speaker 1: Bennington and North Bennington and they they looked like a
Speaker 1: very pleasant little places. Did you guys go Look, I've
Speaker 1: been to Bennington, so yeah, how'd you like it? I
Speaker 1: liked it. It's it's actually got like my favorite diner
Speaker 1: in like ever, like the best breakfast I've ever had
Speaker 1: at the Blue ben We used to drep when I
Speaker 1: lived in Massachusetts. We would drive up there like once
Speaker 1: a month to get I mean it was we would
Speaker 1: get in the car and drive for like four hours
Speaker 1: to get brunch at this place. So, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it's cute. It's nice little town. College the days when
Speaker 1: that was easy to do, it was it was not college,
Speaker 1: it was work even that's how much we like. I
Speaker 1: didn't notice stand my my tallerant for long car drives
Speaker 1: was a lot higher when I was at age than
Speaker 1: that first change that changes as you get a little
Speaker 1: older in it. Where are we Att's I'm talking about
Speaker 1: Bennington itself. Let's talk about to talk about Paula Welton. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: so she was a sophomore at Bennington. She was from
Speaker 1: a well off Connecticut family, and there didn't seem to
Speaker 1: be anything too dramatic going on in your life. But
Speaker 1: apparently she had had a little bit of a following
Speaker 1: out with your dad and she didn't go home for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: I mentioned they let the family lived in Connecticut, so
Speaker 1: not that far away. But at the same time, she
Speaker 1: was also eighteen, and so you know, you know what
Speaker 1: that's like. You know, they were rebelling a little bit,
Speaker 1: and so the littlest thing set you off. Yeah, can
Speaker 1: can can necessarily. Yeah. There's also reports that she had
Speaker 1: been a little depressed in the days leading up to
Speaker 1: her disappearance. So that makes me believe that she skipped
Speaker 1: down and started a new life under the name Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 1: Not really, well maybe I think so. I mean it's
Speaker 1: kind of the right age free, but there's there's something
Speaker 1: to make it right. But yes, yeah, okay, but Bernie
Speaker 1: or not on this on the Afternoon is Sunday, December one,
Speaker 1: Paula asked her roommate if she wanted to go for
Speaker 1: a hike. Her roommate, Hannibal Elector. Her roommates not Hannibal Elector, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: said she was busy, she begged us. So Paula decided
Speaker 1: to go off on her own, and according to most reports,
Speaker 1: Paula really wanted to hike what's called the Long Trail,
Speaker 1: which is it kind of runs to the east of
Speaker 1: Bennington north and south, goes like you know, it goes
Speaker 1: from the bottom of the state to the top of
Speaker 1: the state essentially. Yeah. So at southern end of the
Speaker 1: trail acrosses the border in to Massachusetts, North Dakota somewhere
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever south of there. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: at the northern end it stops at some really dense
Speaker 1: shrubbery uh. And there's well, it's part of the Appalachian Trail,
Speaker 1: right it is, I believe, Yeah, and so I certainly
Speaker 1: if you look at it on Google, it says it
Speaker 1: all Trades Long Trail, Appalachian Trail, Long Trail, Appellation Trail.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so yeah, it's kind of cool. I'd like
Speaker 1: to hike it someday. Except I disappeared. I guess I
Speaker 1: can't do that. But anyway, Paula never could have made
Speaker 1: it to the border with Canada. Um, so there's no
Speaker 1: reasonably the Canadians napped her and you know, and she
Speaker 1: wound up living the rest of her days in slavery, yeah,
Speaker 1: gas or being somebody's valet or god knows what it is.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, Bennington is in the southwest corner of
Speaker 1: the state, and it's a long long way from Canada.
Speaker 1: It's it's much closer to Massachusetts. Senators Canada. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: much closer. It's it's a stone strow away from New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean it'd be it'd be a hard throw,
Speaker 1: but it's a stone throw. Just yeah, I look it
Speaker 1: up on the NAP. Yeah yeah, you'll see it right there.
Speaker 1: Paula left the Bennington campus around two thirty pm and
Speaker 1: she headed south to Highway sixties seven. What sort of
Speaker 1: goes at that point? Kind of east west? Uh? There
Speaker 1: she history ride with a guy named Louis Nap who
Speaker 1: drove her to Highway nine. Apparently Highway Night branches off
Speaker 1: Highway sixty seven heads out towards the town called Woodford Hollow.
Speaker 1: And pass Woodford Hollow. He dropped her about three miles
Speaker 1: short of Woodford Hollow, which is where the Long Trail starts.
Speaker 1: That's where it crosses Highway nine. Did she know, Louis,
Speaker 1: I don't believe. So she was just truly okay, great,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, and uh and
Speaker 1: apparently talk about much. She just said she wanted to
Speaker 1: ride out to Highway nine and then wanted him nasking,
Speaker 1: you know, about the Long Trail, and that was about it.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. And of course days later he remembered
Speaker 1: giving her a ride. But you know, we'll find out
Speaker 1: about that. He actually had a house on Highway nine
Speaker 1: about two and a half three miles short of Woodford Hollow,
Speaker 1: so that's where as far as he went. He dropped
Speaker 1: her off and she had it back down the highway
Speaker 1: south and maybe you got a ride with somebody else,
Speaker 1: who knows, But she did make it to the trail. Uh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: There were four guys who were leaving the trail at
Speaker 1: the time that Paula showed up, and she asked, just asks,
Speaker 1: you know, was this the way to the Long Trail?
Speaker 1: And they said, yeah, the pointed the way, and so uh,
Speaker 1: the last saw of her, she was walking across the
Speaker 1: footbridge that led to the trail and that was it.
Speaker 1: And of course several days later they remembered her. And
Speaker 1: I should also mention that Paul was not outfitted for
Speaker 1: a major hike. She was wearing a coat that I
Speaker 1: think had a hood and kind of a kind of
Speaker 1: a furry winter jacket. Yeah, not a real heavy duty thing,
Speaker 1: um all said, on jeans and tennis shoes. Again not
Speaker 1: really great snows. Did she even have water? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I mean you would
Speaker 1: think she would have taken some water with her. You
Speaker 1: would think that would make sense. Yeah, And she had
Speaker 1: no gear. It's not even water, no food, no extra clothes,
Speaker 1: no camping gear, nothing. I don't think she had a
Speaker 1: flashlight either. And you know, it gets dark at that
Speaker 1: time of the year, that far north right gets dark
Speaker 1: kind of early. And she didn't apparently take too much
Speaker 1: money with her either, And she definitely left some behind
Speaker 1: at the school, like an uncashed check from her parents,
Speaker 1: for example. And you know, you guys, we've seen lots
Speaker 1: of these cases where people run off to start new lives,
Speaker 1: nearly bank accounts and all kinds of stuff behind, because
Speaker 1: that's what I would do. Y yeah, absolutely. Uh. There
Speaker 1: was one more adding Apollo that I know about. I mean,
Speaker 1: there were a lot of sightings of Paula, but they
Speaker 1: were rather conjectural. It was all in the paper and
Speaker 1: people saw, oh I saw somebody look kind of like her,
Speaker 1: similar to the Indiana Dunes or the Grime Sisters even
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, so there were lots of sidies. This
Speaker 1: one looks pretty confirmed, though. There there was a couple
Speaker 1: whose names elude me um. I think their names are
Speaker 1: lost to the ages. The several people in this case
Speaker 1: whose names are kind of lost to the ages. It's
Speaker 1: a pretty common name, yeah, but they lost the ages.
Speaker 1: It's a nice name actually. But they were about it,
Speaker 1: maybe a hundred or so yards behind her and following her,
Speaker 1: and they said she went around a bend in the trail,
Speaker 1: and then when they rounded the bend of a minute
Speaker 1: to later, she was gone. Yeah, I don't know how.
Speaker 1: I mean, in Oregon, it would be pretty easy to, like, say,
Speaker 1: if you had to use the bathroom, it's pretty easy
Speaker 1: to just hop off the trail and go a little
Speaker 1: ways and your trail gets totally lost, and you would
Speaker 1: be totally lost. But I don't have a sing, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't. I've never to the Long Trail, so I
Speaker 1: don't know. I have a friend who just hiked the
Speaker 1: entire Appalachian Trail, and it looks like there are parts
Speaker 1: where it would be pretty easy to do something similar
Speaker 1: to that. But if there were snow on the ground,
Speaker 1: one would assume that they would have seen her tracks
Speaker 1: going off somewhere. So, you know, my first my first
Speaker 1: thought on something like that is she had she had
Speaker 1: to go pee. That's child possible. Yeah, And as far
Speaker 1: as I know, it's snowed later on. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was a night or the next day, but
Speaker 1: as as of that time, there was no sky. But
Speaker 1: it's also a deciduous forest, which means that is their
Speaker 1: leaves all over the ground, So that is going, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not a trail more than yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it would be more open, so it would be
Speaker 1: easier to see her if she were Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't great all the time. I did too, Um,
Speaker 1: but I kind of think that you guys are you know,
Speaker 1: like really distracting from the alien subducted or kind of
Speaker 1: oh yeah, sorry, now just kidding. They also reported the
Speaker 1: bright light yeah gey stuff, the memory loss. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: Paula didn't come home that night, obviously, and next next day,
Speaker 1: on Monday, December two, she uh, her roommate noticed she
Speaker 1: was gone. And also, by the way, she didn't show
Speaker 1: up for classes. So back in those days, colleges were
Speaker 1: a little more a little more strict about that kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Some colleges, Yeah, yeah, and so yeah and
Speaker 1: so yeah, so they know she wasn't there and hermy
Speaker 1: said she didn't come home, and the alarm goes up
Speaker 1: and h and her parents are notified, um, and the
Speaker 1: police are called. And of course nobody knew at this
Speaker 1: point that Paula had gone to the Long Trail, So
Speaker 1: at first they were searching the college campus in the
Speaker 1: surrounding areas. But then after the news hit the papers,
Speaker 1: Lewis Napp remember him, the guy that gave her a
Speaker 1: ride out most of the way, Yeah, he remembered her,
Speaker 1: and so he came over to police with his story
Speaker 1: and told them, Hey, I gave her a ride to
Speaker 1: Hghway nine and she was really interested in hiking the
Speaker 1: Long Trail, so uh and also what's his name? The
Speaker 1: four the four guys that were her on the way
Speaker 1: on their way out, one of them actually worked at
Speaker 1: the local benage in paper and so he went to
Speaker 1: a reporter and told the reporter about that and what
Speaker 1: he had seen, so, you know. And then so obviously
Speaker 1: she had had last been seen in a long trail,
Speaker 1: so everybody can everybody assumes she's out there lost or
Speaker 1: maybe dead. But at this point, again, she hasn't. She
Speaker 1: hasn't been gone that long, and so there was still
Speaker 1: some hope of finding her alive. And so the shirt
Speaker 1: the search shifted to the long trail, and they searched
Speaker 1: not only the trail but to swap the woods on
Speaker 1: the other side of it. Uh, and a lot of people,
Speaker 1: I mean, they canceled classes at the college, so so
Speaker 1: everybody at the college could turn out and help with
Speaker 1: the search, and like police and National Guard and everybody
Speaker 1: you can think of. I mean, hundreds of people were
Speaker 1: searching for her. And actually, so there were so many
Speaker 1: people searching for her, I was kind of surprised none
Speaker 1: of the searchers got lost themselves. True. Well, if they
Speaker 1: you said they were carrying confetti, did you say that yet? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but soon But they were, I mean they were they were,
Speaker 1: you know, hustle and grattling it. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: pretty easy to track your way back if you've got
Speaker 1: something like that. That's unless you get like, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody like Chupy going after you picking up your confetti. Well,
Speaker 1: the good thing about confetti is it's hard to get
Speaker 1: all of the pieces. There's a lot a little that's
Speaker 1: why you would do confetti. Maybe confetti makes sense actually,
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's one of the ways they kept him
Speaker 1: going over the same ground again and again, dropping confetti.
Speaker 1: Whenever you search the place, he drops, drop a little
Speaker 1: confetti and just keep going. And also reports were coming
Speaker 1: in from other places. This was hitting the papers. I
Speaker 1: think it made the national news even and there were
Speaker 1: reports from somebody as far away as Massachusetts. The waitress
Speaker 1: claimed to have served her in a diner. Yeah, Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: isn't that It's not, no, it's not. It's not usually
Speaker 1: far away, especially if she actually went pretty far away though, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, if she accidentally went the wrong way on
Speaker 1: the trail, you mean, yeah, she walks south and staid
Speaker 1: in the Yeah, but the people who said they saw
Speaker 1: her going on the trail and followed her on the trail.
Speaker 1: We're going in the northerly direction. Yeah, but she could
Speaker 1: have walked north originally and then overshot. Yeah, like just
Speaker 1: walked for an hour or whatever and then walked back
Speaker 1: and totally missed where she should have popped off and
Speaker 1: then just you know, stumbles out of the forest a
Speaker 1: day later in Massachusetts. And it's just at this first,
Speaker 1: but you would think the waitress would say she looked horrible, yeah,
Speaker 1: and really needed help and realized that she needed help, so,
Speaker 1: you know, because she couldn't pay for the slice of pie, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And apparently well apparently she was with the guy too,
Speaker 1: of course. Yeah, and she was running off, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It could be that guy was an alien, yeah,
Speaker 1: or that could be too. It was the bald world
Speaker 1: world for Dora. But I've been watching fringely. I was
Speaker 1: going to say, you must be watching, yeah, exactly. Um,
Speaker 1: And there was one report of a suspicious character, a
Speaker 1: guy whose name I could never find. Either of you
Speaker 1: able to find this guy's name, And yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: He was lost to the ages, one of those I
Speaker 1: swear that I saw it in one place, but when
Speaker 1: I went looking back through with what I read, I
Speaker 1: couldn't find it again. Yeah, everywhere. I even found a
Speaker 1: fairly authoritative newspaper article from the local Bennington newspaper that
Speaker 1: was like one of those look back on the years
Speaker 1: later and everything like that. And even that one didn't
Speaker 1: have a name for the guy. You would think of anybody,
Speaker 1: they would have had the name, right, You would think
Speaker 1: anything at the time. But I think oftentimes when they
Speaker 1: do those retrospectives they scrub names out. Maybe they do.
Speaker 1: Maybe they figure it's no sense, you know, expuring that
Speaker 1: stuff up or something. I don't know. Maybe his family
Speaker 1: owned the paper by that time. I don't know, But
Speaker 1: this guy was a lumberjack apparently, at least I've in
Speaker 1: one place, and he lived kind of near the trail
Speaker 1: that Paula walked down the long trail and reportedly said
Speaker 1: to friends or acquaintances that he saw her walk by
Speaker 1: the trail. He'd been having an argument with his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: He storms off angry, and then he said he had
Speaker 1: he went home. That's one version, or he got in
Speaker 1: his truck and followed her. His own accounts have buried,
Speaker 1: of course, of course. Yeah, and he also supposedly told
Speaker 1: a few people that he knew where Paula was buried,
Speaker 1: but of course, later on a question my police, he
Speaker 1: said that was just idle talk. So I don't know. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: I mean we're friends and you're oftentimes pretty creepy, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean, like I can't imagine anybody having that
Speaker 1: kind of sense of humor. They would be like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to make a joke about knowing
Speaker 1: where this missing girl is buried. It's behavior, it's super
Speaker 1: weirdo behavior. It's a little weird of But then again,
Speaker 1: I mean, you never you don't really know the context.
Speaker 1: I mean, it could have been threatened more than anything,
Speaker 1: but you didn't have a clue what happened to her anything.
Speaker 1: But he's threatening somebody and saying, hey, by the way,
Speaker 1: I know where she's buried. I could murder you. So
Speaker 1: I'm really uh So this makes me think of another case.
Speaker 1: We've got a college age girl who disappears and it's
Speaker 1: a the Northeast, and the news media makes all kinds
Speaker 1: of hubbub about it, Like I really think that this
Speaker 1: should have been covered by a sensationalist writer that we
Speaker 1: know of. Like it's shocking to me that this hasn't
Speaker 1: happened too early, too early? Sorry, Yeah, not not yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's going to run out of stuff to talk about,
Speaker 1: and then it's gonna be off to this one and
Speaker 1: it might be related, who knows. The police couldn't put
Speaker 1: anything on our lumberjacks, so that never went anywhere. And
Speaker 1: that's it. Paula's missing. Still wait, there was another one.
Speaker 1: A year before Paula disappeared. Somebody else disappeared too, in
Speaker 1: the same area, fairly close by. Yeah. Uh, this is
Speaker 1: also out in the woods, not on a bus. Uh.
Speaker 1: But it's still a little strange that this guy's name
Speaker 1: was Middy Rivers I assume the time. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: a hunting fishing guide, uh, seventy four years old. But
Speaker 1: apparently he knew the local woods very very well, so
Speaker 1: he wasn't the kind of guy to just wander out
Speaker 1: there and get lost. And if he had gotten lost,
Speaker 1: he would have known how to care of himself. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, he was seventy four in the forties, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty damn old. Continue. But what happened to him was
Speaker 1: on November twelve, Middy was guiding a group of four
Speaker 1: hunters in the hills near Bennington. Uh. And they were
Speaker 1: heading back to their camp after what I sen was
Speaker 1: an unproductive day because I have heard nobody mentioned transporting
Speaker 1: a deer carcass back to their camp with them triumph. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: and Midea got out in front of the group and
Speaker 1: apparently out of their sight, and then they never saw
Speaker 1: him again. The four hunters eventually got back to camp,
Speaker 1: Middy was not there, you know, made them all scratch
Speaker 1: the heads just a little bit, and he has never
Speaker 1: been heard from again. Well there's the whole shell casing thing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, there was a there was a huge
Speaker 1: search of the woods where he disappeared, but no trace
Speaker 1: was ever found except for a cartridge from his rifle
Speaker 1: that was found next to a stream. And I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know what stream that was, and I'm not
Speaker 1: even a hund percent sure that it was even the
Speaker 1: cartridge from his rifle. That's what I can never understand
Speaker 1: was how they pinned on his rifle. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: also just realistically, if he was hunting and fishing in
Speaker 1: that area for a long time, what's to say that
Speaker 1: wasn't from three days before? Ye? True, that too, you know,
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's some cartridges that are just very very
Speaker 1: popular and so and his might have been one of them.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to say that was his even but
Speaker 1: it was just like Paula, there was not a shred
Speaker 1: of torn clothing or a shoe or anything that they
Speaker 1: didn't find his rifle. And that's that's what's strange about
Speaker 1: these disappearances. We've talked about a lot of disappearing people, uh,
Speaker 1: and it seems like usually they find some little tiny
Speaker 1: tracer or another, like an article of clothing, or maybe
Speaker 1: a year two goes by and they find like, you know,
Speaker 1: they find a bunch of their clothes, or they find
Speaker 1: a little backpack or a purse, or they find something.
Speaker 1: Nothing ever turned up at all, particularly when we're talking
Speaker 1: about those ones where we kind of say, okay, well
Speaker 1: could be a serial killer, but probably it was a bear.
Speaker 1: You know, they wandered off and you know some predator
Speaker 1: got them, and then you know, the clothes because they
Speaker 1: they're not going to eat the clothes because no, well
Speaker 1: sometimes the devil bear. Yeah okay, yeah, So I mean
Speaker 1: that's always so fascinating and frustrating to me when literally
Speaker 1: nothing shows up, absolutely not a clue. Ah. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so those three so far. So we talked about MIDI, PAULA,
Speaker 1: and James Tedford. So that's the first three. And then uh,
Speaker 1: year after James Tedford vanished, a couple of other people
Speaker 1: disappeared too. Uh. There was Paul Jepson. And I've seen
Speaker 1: this as Jeffson as a J E. P. H. S O. N. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I've yeah, I'm gonna go with Jepson because I
Speaker 1: saw an article in a local paper that had his
Speaker 1: and his dad's name in there, and it was Jepson
Speaker 1: in there, although not that the newspapers anyway, But anyway,
Speaker 1: we'll go with Jepson. He was ag eight. He was
Speaker 1: from Shaftsbury, Vermont, which is about six months north of
Speaker 1: Bennington on Highway seven A, which, of course you know,
Speaker 1: meant that what's his name, James Tedford cruised right by there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know who. Coincidence, Paul Paul Jeffson disappeared October twelfth,
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty and all these people disappeared in that sounded
Speaker 1: kind of a narrow little window there between October twelfth
Speaker 1: and December one. They also supposedly all disappeared within an
Speaker 1: hour window during the day, somewhere between three and four o'clock.
Speaker 1: I always see this sometimes, and it was always between
Speaker 1: three and four o'clock they disappear. Yeah, that's when the
Speaker 1: oos are out. Yeah, the accounts that I've heard of
Speaker 1: this one I read that he disappeared from the family
Speaker 1: farm in Shaftesbury. And then another account that I read
Speaker 1: his mother left him in the family track while she
Speaker 1: went off to feed some hogs, which doesn't totally make sense,
Speaker 1: but whatever. Well, actually I think I can explain that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so his family. One of the things his family did
Speaker 1: is they took care of a local dump. And if
Speaker 1: you think about the time in the area, the local
Speaker 1: dump was somebody that had extra space that happened to
Speaker 1: have a big hole in it that everybody could throw
Speaker 1: their garbage into. And garbage tends to have food in it,
Speaker 1: so you can have pigs, and the pigs will feed
Speaker 1: off of the trash. But she still got to give
Speaker 1: them some real food. You know, they can't they can't
Speaker 1: subsist on what they find in I mean, it's not
Speaker 1: like hefty bags were around at the time, but they
Speaker 1: can't subsist on everything they're finding in the trash. That
Speaker 1: they've got to give them some real food. So that
Speaker 1: I think is why you that's why I think it's two,
Speaker 1: because people read pigs and believe it's got to be
Speaker 1: a farm, and then people read the thing about being
Speaker 1: in the truck and you'll see it, Well, they were
Speaker 1: at the dump, and I think that's they're actually one
Speaker 1: in the same. Yeah, well, yeah, I know that makes
Speaker 1: sense totally, the part of it didn't. I mean, even
Speaker 1: if they had just gone off to say, say, somebody
Speaker 1: was on vacation, she had to go go buy their
Speaker 1: farm real quick and feed the hogs. And accounts that
Speaker 1: I've read about this it took her like a hour
Speaker 1: to do this, which seems like kind of a long
Speaker 1: time to go feed the hogs. How many hogs there are?
Speaker 1: It could be that, or it could it could just
Speaker 1: be that that was inaccurate and she was only gone
Speaker 1: for fifteen minutes. Yeah, as say enough for a kid
Speaker 1: to disappear. I've I've had to take your livestock, and
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta do the water, and you're gotta
Speaker 1: do the feed, and you gotta clean out stalls and
Speaker 1: that can take some time. Well that's true, yeah, But
Speaker 1: also I mean he was eight, right, but he's old
Speaker 1: enough to help with some of that stuff. That's why
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. You. So, if it is this long endeavor
Speaker 1: where you are like mucking out pins and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: why would you not just have your eight year old
Speaker 1: son do the mucking while you're doing all the rest
Speaker 1: of the stuff. For like true, of course, there is
Speaker 1: also the fact that what do eight year old boys
Speaker 1: love to do? Jump in puddles of stuff and when
Speaker 1: it's pig excrement, that stuff stinks to high heaven and
Speaker 1: doesn't wash out. Tell the kid not to do that,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because boys listen. Well, I think eight is
Speaker 1: older than you think it is, but we can go
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah. But anyway, so it's not out either way,
Speaker 1: Family Farm Org. It's not outrageous. But whatever happened, Uh,
Speaker 1: he either wanted off or maybe somebody snatched him right
Speaker 1: out of the truck. We don't really know what. The
Speaker 1: police brought in bloodhounds. They were able to track him
Speaker 1: for a while, but the trail apparently ended at the
Speaker 1: edge of a highway and that was that. Uh. There were,
Speaker 1: as always, some reported sightings of Paul, but nothing consistent.
Speaker 1: Nothing ever panned out. There was one that I read
Speaker 1: about it, one of the papers or some woman spotted
Speaker 1: a boy just like him, but from the description his
Speaker 1: father said, as Paul Jepson's father said, he didn't believe
Speaker 1: it was his son. And did you mention that he's
Speaker 1: apparently was wearing a very distinctive red shirt at the time,
Speaker 1: or a red shirt or a red jacket, much like um,
Speaker 1: what's her name? Yeah, Paula, Paula. Thank you? Yet it
Speaker 1: exactly and you know it's an easy target color. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's it is. It's great when he's looking for
Speaker 1: a body. Okay. So, and then one last disappearance, which
Speaker 1: was only two weeks later, that's October, Max and freed
Speaker 1: to Langer, North Adams, Massachusetts, were camping in the Mount
Speaker 1: Pisca area with Frieda's cousin, Herbert Elsner. But first, before
Speaker 1: I go any further, I want to say this is
Speaker 1: the one that I think doesn't really fit with the
Speaker 1: other ones, even though it's always it always seems to
Speaker 1: be included when you read about the Bennington Triangle. This
Speaker 1: take place in the Mount Pisca area, as I said,
Speaker 1: And that's a long way from Bennington, that's all. That's
Speaker 1: way north, fairly close to the Kanakastani border and and
Speaker 1: so I'm not it's kind of outside the triangle, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a perfectly shaped triangle. The
Speaker 1: boundaries of this triangle can change. Okay, okay, well that
Speaker 1: was much like the Bermuda triangle. Yeah, they just keep
Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger. Yeah, it morphs to absorb whatever
Speaker 1: story you would like it to encompass. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: well that guy's cool. It's part of the triangle that
Speaker 1: won't include it. Yeah, okay, So Frieda Langer was fifty
Speaker 1: three or husband Max was eight. Max had a bad need,
Speaker 1: so in Frieda and Herbert decided that they wanted to
Speaker 1: take a hike. Max decided to stay behind the camp
Speaker 1: because of that bad name, and so Frieda and Herbert
Speaker 1: headed out. But a little way from camp, Frieda slipped
Speaker 1: while crossing a creek. And I don't know whether they
Speaker 1: were just hopping rock to rock or walking across the log.
Speaker 1: Whatever happened, she fell in and got wet, and so
Speaker 1: she decided taking to run back to camp. So she
Speaker 1: told Herbert to just continue on that she was going
Speaker 1: to run back and change. Yeah, it's late October, of course,
Speaker 1: it's chili out and uh, she was just gonna run back,
Speaker 1: changing and something dry. Uh. In one account that I
Speaker 1: actually said she was taking a shortcut. And this is
Speaker 1: a you know, a little note to our listeners. Many
Speaker 1: a great adventure starts with the words, hey, let's take
Speaker 1: a shortcut. I know a shorter way, I know a
Speaker 1: good way. Yeah. Yeah, But whatever happened, I don't know.
Speaker 1: She left Herbert at about three pm. Herbert eventually she
Speaker 1: never saw her again. She never rejoined him. He came
Speaker 1: back to camp about four or forty five, but Frieda
Speaker 1: wasn't there. Uh. And according to her husband Max, she
Speaker 1: had never she had never returned from the hike, and
Speaker 1: so well, you know, puzzled all around, and they called
Speaker 1: the police and another huge search is conducted. No trace
Speaker 1: of Frieda was ever found, which makes it kind of
Speaker 1: similar to our other disappearances. Which is why I see
Speaker 1: that some people because it's so pinky. I mean that
Speaker 1: she just disappears. But here's the guy that knows her.
Speaker 1: Here's camp right back here, and she just vanished hike
Speaker 1: apart at the most and she just zip just just vanished,
Speaker 1: yeah pooh like that then leaves no trace. But there's
Speaker 1: also just similar in one big way, and and that
Speaker 1: is that Frieda's body was found about six months after
Speaker 1: she disappeared. She's the only one. She's the only one act.
Speaker 1: And was she in good shape? No, she was not.
Speaker 1: She she had just decomposed enough that they couldn't tell
Speaker 1: how she had been killed or she died by natural causes.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was natural causes. So because the
Speaker 1: body was found in a spot that had been searched
Speaker 1: when they were searching for her originally. Yeah, so it
Speaker 1: looks like somebody came back and dumped the body there
Speaker 1: after the you know, after the search was done. We've
Speaker 1: got four of five bodies or people who were never
Speaker 1: seen again. Yeah. Now, I mean I'm sure that you
Speaker 1: came across this, Joe. I know that is what I
Speaker 1: want to say. Canonical Is that the right term? The
Speaker 1: central core? They can in the central There are other
Speaker 1: you know, murders and disappearance. Yeah, there's I've seen upwards
Speaker 1: of twelve different ones that are attributed to this particular triangle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like there was that one, that one that was very recent,
Speaker 1: like two thousand and eleven, that kid with the weird
Speaker 1: name Marble, what's his Marble? Something, there's there's marble, but
Speaker 1: there was a hunter in the thirties who quote unquote
Speaker 1: disappeared out of sight of his party, and that was
Speaker 1: found under a tree shot days later. Like there's there's
Speaker 1: a whole series of these kinds of weird occurrences in
Speaker 1: this whole areas. So it really depends on which version,
Speaker 1: in which assemblage of articles you read. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: I read another one that I didn't include it with
Speaker 1: this one because there's absolutely nothing out there about it
Speaker 1: except a group of three hunters vanished I believe in
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, but that's it. That's that's the only
Speaker 1: thing there is about it. So who knows if that's
Speaker 1: anything related to truth or not. I mean, uh so
Speaker 1: I didn't include that one. But yeah, apparently a lot
Speaker 1: of people disappeared, you're mysterious, were murdered or whatever. But
Speaker 1: these are, like I said, the five tried and true,
Speaker 1: absolutely for sure. So we think ones fo, we go
Speaker 1: to theories. Let's take a quick break. The walls are wire,
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Speaker 1: a chicken. The threat of the fox is all too real,
Speaker 1: and we are back. Hey, well, I hope that was
Speaker 1: refreshing for you guys. Was we went? We went? Had at? Yeah,
Speaker 1: those jew boxes are pretty pretty good. Huh, all right,
Speaker 1: where were here? Oh? Aliens? Alien induction. Now, I know,
Speaker 1: as a noted ufologist, I know Devin wanted to weigh
Speaker 1: out on the alien thing. It was obviously aliens, you
Speaker 1: think so, Yeah, I mean even the most recent one
Speaker 1: of h what's her name? His name? Her name? Oh
Speaker 1: frieda frieda Yeah, I mean obviously the aliens just abducted
Speaker 1: her and did their tests and then dropped her in
Speaker 1: the exact same spot. Never mind they accidentally got you know,
Speaker 1: the days wrong. They just teleported her back and close enough,
Speaker 1: close enough for government work. Man, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: mean they've come hundreds of thousands of light years. I
Speaker 1: mean really, what is Yeah, well, to them, that's you know,
Speaker 1: like a millimeter if they're giants. No, no for distance,
Speaker 1: I mean like whatever, it's kind it's easy. I mean
Speaker 1: you who can who can be trusted to know exactly?
Speaker 1: Sometimes you park your car and then you think you're
Speaker 1: exactly where you parked your car, but you're actually like
Speaker 1: five blocks off. True, you dropped the pin in like
Speaker 1: a little bit of the wrong place in the map.
Speaker 1: They might have fingers, I don't. I mean, it's the
Speaker 1: only I'm not going to argue this too hard because
Speaker 1: I like being a newphologist. There's no like real evidence here.
Speaker 1: There's no sightings that correspond with any of these things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: none of that. But I will say that it would
Speaker 1: nicely round out these disappearances. I mean, most of these
Speaker 1: people disp heard with literal literally hide nor hair of them, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just gone like poof, And what else
Speaker 1: can do that other than weird magician guys are serial killers.
Speaker 1: But I'm getting ahead of myself or you know, made
Speaker 1: up histories. But I think, I mean, I think the
Speaker 1: aliens theory is not a bad one overall with this one.
Speaker 1: I mean, again, it is troubling broad daylight, right, you
Speaker 1: don't that's not really usually when the aliens come to
Speaker 1: abduct people and then the lack of any kind of
Speaker 1: sightings or strange noises or anything like that. But overall
Speaker 1: the next one might explain that though, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think still though, I mean, we're talking, especially with Frieda again, right,
Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, fifteen minutes walk, you'd hear Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: Either of those guys would have heard big Everybody here's Bigfoot.
Speaker 1: They just can't get his picture, that's the trick. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: they would have said. And there was a loud rustling
Speaker 1: and weird grunting noises unless he was having a quiet day.
Speaker 1: And I really, well, not even I think that he
Speaker 1: does that. That's sort of noise making things, kind of
Speaker 1: the way a rattler wants to scare away. And and
Speaker 1: you're probably right, yeah, but I also big Foot is
Speaker 1: a gentle giant he's carrying not. According to the story
Speaker 1: that comes out from I think it was the late
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds in this area, Supposedly there was a carriage that,
Speaker 1: you know, team of horses is drawn upon and it's
Speaker 1: a terrible storm and they stop and the guys trying
Speaker 1: to see ahead, and he hears something outside and the
Speaker 1: horses are freaking out. All the people get out of
Speaker 1: the carriage, at which point something comes out of the
Speaker 1: woods and you know, beats against the side of the carriage,
Speaker 1: eventually knocking it over and scaring the holy hell out
Speaker 1: of the horses. Like it was eight foot tall with glow.
Speaker 1: I think it had glowing red eyes. That you're wrong
Speaker 1: on that that was moth man. No, Bigfoot doesn't have
Speaker 1: glowing eyes. But the point is eight foot tall and
Speaker 1: hairy and angry. Does sound like Bigfoot? Bigfoot is never angry.
Speaker 1: Bears are angry often. Listen. I've met a lot of
Speaker 1: bears and they are generally not angry men, but some
Speaker 1: of them have very big feet. True, all right, there
Speaker 1: you go. Um, but there there are local legends there.
Speaker 1: It's very similar to our sasquatch lessons legends here in
Speaker 1: the Northwest of a big foot like creature. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so that's among the Indians, local Indians And um, so
Speaker 1: what do you guys think about big Foot? Is the theory? No?
Speaker 1: I like aliens way more than for this. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I like Bigfoot. I love you, but I think aliens
Speaker 1: more exactly. That's sure, you feel better, don't your big Foot? No,
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot. Where are we at next? Next?
Speaker 1: Sary legendary rocks? This is according to local Indians, and
Speaker 1: I forget what these things were called by the Indians.
Speaker 1: I've seen the name, but it's unpronounceable. Um. But these apparently,
Speaker 1: if you step on these rocks, they can just open
Speaker 1: up and swallow you up. I've seen those. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: sounds like something out of Stargate. Oh really, And I
Speaker 1: haven't watched it about Stargate, so I don't know. But yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so that's a possibility of that. You know, there's some
Speaker 1: of these, some of these Indian legends you kind of
Speaker 1: wonder sometimes they're pulling they're pulling the white man's leg
Speaker 1: just a little bit. Yeah. So here's the problem with
Speaker 1: the whole Indian legend thing that didn't show up until
Speaker 1: the very early eighties, that there was the whole because
Speaker 1: the Indian legend is not only the rocks. There's the
Speaker 1: Indian legend that the local indigenous people wouldn't go into
Speaker 1: those mountains because for fear of the things were there,
Speaker 1: and they would only bury their dead there, and YadA yadya.
Speaker 1: That only came about in the eighties. But there is
Speaker 1: act at least some information that people say might be
Speaker 1: truthful in terms of the local people's didn't like going there,
Speaker 1: and that is because apparently the way it's oriented and
Speaker 1: with the weather patterns that are there, storms move in
Speaker 1: and it gets really crappy, really fast, and so it's
Speaker 1: really easy to get disoriented because you say, you're thinking, well,
Speaker 1: the wind is always going to blow from the east,
Speaker 1: except there's some weird weather patterns where it changes that,
Speaker 1: and it can screw people's sense of navigation. Well, I
Speaker 1: mean more than that might be real, though, but the
Speaker 1: whole rock thing is not just gonna say more than
Speaker 1: just the wind patterns. I mean, the wind can be
Speaker 1: blowing consistently from one side, but the way that the
Speaker 1: forest looks in a storm versus when you've been walking there,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's easy enough to get disoriented if
Speaker 1: you aren't What if you aren't doing that thing you
Speaker 1: gotta do when you're hiking where everyone's a while, you
Speaker 1: look back to make sure you know what it looks
Speaker 1: like on the other way, you're not doing that. It's
Speaker 1: all right, super easy to get disoriented if it's kind
Speaker 1: of sunny and then ten minutes later it's pouring down
Speaker 1: rain and wind blowing and you turn around. It's like
Speaker 1: the easiest thing in the entire world to lose any trail.
Speaker 1: That's why. Yeah, I was just take a five mile
Speaker 1: long rope with me. Yeah, I know you do. I've
Speaker 1: seen you hyper It's really awkward. It's super weird. That's
Speaker 1: a lot lighter towards the end of the hike, well
Speaker 1: heavier as you go back, because God help you. If
Speaker 1: you don't coil it up as you go home, then
Speaker 1: you got this big knot at the end of the trail.
Speaker 1: That's disgusting to try to entangle that thing. Yeah. Well.
Speaker 1: The other thing about the Indians though, is there they're
Speaker 1: much like the rest of us, is they want they
Speaker 1: want a good pay day. And I'm not sure how
Speaker 1: good the game was around there, but I assume that
Speaker 1: might have been part of it too. If the hunting
Speaker 1: is not good, then screw it, why should go there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's another good reason. Or alternately, if the hunting is
Speaker 1: really good, why would you let anybody? Why wouldn't you
Speaker 1: just like try to scare people away at a good
Speaker 1: point too? Yeah? Okay, but anyway, Yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: the Indians were aulally terrified of that. Another possibility is
Speaker 1: that all five of these people were killed by a
Speaker 1: serial killer Boom boom, which I actually I think it's
Speaker 1: possible at least some of them were. It does seem
Speaker 1: to me like quite possible there was a serial killer
Speaker 1: at work here. This eyebrow was raised. I'm waiting for
Speaker 1: you to to to justify this to me. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: people that advantage like that. I mean the middle ones, Middy,
Speaker 1: or I should say, the early ones, Middi, Paul, Paula,
Speaker 1: and James are similar enough. I can see them being
Speaker 1: done by a single killer. But in the case of Middy,
Speaker 1: remember he was the first one, the hunter guy who disappeared.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't totally rule out a hunting accident because I mean,
Speaker 1: when you think about it, it would be a huge
Speaker 1: act of daring do for a serial killer even to
Speaker 1: nab this guy. And it was he's this guy who
Speaker 1: was armed with a rifle himself, and he's being followed
Speaker 1: by four other guys with guns to just nab that
Speaker 1: guy at hall him away and kill him. That's pretty um,
Speaker 1: that's pretty ballsy. You gotta let me be honest. It's
Speaker 1: it's almost it's almost almost Hannibal Lecter territory. That that's
Speaker 1: the whole idea that this guy was just barely out
Speaker 1: of sight of these four other guys and he just vanishes.
Speaker 1: I find it really hard to believe a serial killer
Speaker 1: did that. I found it a lot. I would agree
Speaker 1: with that that there was probably a little accident and
Speaker 1: they decided to hide the body, which is one possibility.
Speaker 1: But but the other three. My my problem with this
Speaker 1: whole serial killer thing, and we we talked about this recently,
Speaker 1: is you know, the serial killers tend to have a
Speaker 1: pattern and an m O. But these your your three core,
Speaker 1: These three people right there are four people are vastly different.
Speaker 1: We've got an eight year old boy, eighteen year old girl,
Speaker 1: a fifty three year old woman, and uh, Tedford was
Speaker 1: Tedford wasn't even in the area. But let's just bring
Speaker 1: him in the mix. He's a fifty something year old man.
Speaker 1: It was, Yeah, he was in the area. He was
Speaker 1: He wasn't on the trailers first, he was not on
Speaker 1: the trail right there, and he wasn't on the ground physically.
Speaker 1: He was supposedly still in the bus. But my point
Speaker 1: is they're all very different. I'm willing to go there
Speaker 1: with the people who disappeared in the forest be a
Speaker 1: cme of opportunity. I mean three or four even because
Speaker 1: we got a hunting guy on the trail, the teenage girls.
Speaker 1: We got a woman who slipped and fell on the trail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but no, she wasn't on the same trail. Well he
Speaker 1: was far away, that's right, she wasn't on that actual trail.
Speaker 1: And then kid a little boy on the road on
Speaker 1: the road. I mean, yeah, the victims are different, but
Speaker 1: the m O is not different. It's not ame of
Speaker 1: opportunities getting That's That's what I'm thinking to you. Just
Speaker 1: you know, just crazy person wandering the forest and kidnapping people.
Speaker 1: I don't think he was wandering the forest. I mean
Speaker 1: what these um also, yeah, Paul the eight year old,
Speaker 1: as we know, he they followed his scent to the
Speaker 1: highway or a highway. So okay, we gotta road. And
Speaker 1: actually we have proximity to road for all these people,
Speaker 1: I mean not the first one, not minie, and and
Speaker 1: not fraid that with the middle three. There is proximity
Speaker 1: there with two roads. Um. So Paul Jeffson wanders off,
Speaker 1: let's say, from the family truck, gets a little board.
Speaker 1: Forget that he's been told to stay at the truck,
Speaker 1: so he just mos He's off, gets a little lost,
Speaker 1: winds up at the highway, or he's picked up by
Speaker 1: a kindly helpful stranger who turned out to be a
Speaker 1: psycho killer. Uh and but and which I find more
Speaker 1: believable than him getting wandering off and getting lost in
Speaker 1: the woods and dying of disposure, because as we said before,
Speaker 1: he was wearing a bright red jacket or as some
Speaker 1: reports have said, a bright red shirt and should have
Speaker 1: been easy enough to spot the body. Of course, there's
Speaker 1: another possibility with Paul, which was that he didn't disappear
Speaker 1: at all. It was just parental abuse or negligence or negligence.
Speaker 1: And also I was about to say, thank you, is
Speaker 1: that if if his parents do some thing negligence was
Speaker 1: the word you used, and I'm going to continue with
Speaker 1: that word, or or if he got out and got
Speaker 1: I mean, pigs are mean. Pigs will knock somebody over
Speaker 1: and bite them while they're like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever been bit by a pig, but the freaking hurts,
Speaker 1: and they got sharp little teeth and they can tear
Speaker 1: through things quite quickly. So it's entirely possible that they
Speaker 1: went ah hell in an hour called the cops they'll
Speaker 1: be done with him by then. But that does present
Speaker 1: a problem in that bloodhound dogs were able to track him.
Speaker 1: So there's a problem with that too though, because the
Speaker 1: problem is he disappeared in the afternoon, you know this
Speaker 1: three to four o' clock window. The dogs were brought
Speaker 1: in the next day. It rained heavily during the night,
Speaker 1: so those dogs didn't have a whole lot of scent
Speaker 1: to go on for him. So it's very possible that
Speaker 1: they picked up a wrong said and followed that to
Speaker 1: the road. Well, I guess it's also possible that he
Speaker 1: ran to the road, realized he was at the road,
Speaker 1: ran back, went mom, got knocked over by some pigs,
Speaker 1: I got eaten something like that. Yeah, possible. But there's
Speaker 1: a huge issue with the dogs because of the fact
Speaker 1: that there was such heavy rains. Well, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess that was my first thought. Honestly, when we started
Speaker 1: talking about Paul and there were pigs involved, I just
Speaker 1: generally think like, wow, the pigs, Yeah anything, people have
Speaker 1: fed people to the pigs. It has happened in real life.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think that pig for the pig. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was still rape Paul is as a good possibility
Speaker 1: of you know, since he was in a pickup truck,
Speaker 1: that means he was on a road or right next
Speaker 1: to a road. Well, if they're at the dump, there's
Speaker 1: people that are coming to the dump. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: see where you're goinging. I mean all three, there are
Speaker 1: at least three people who could have definitely just happened
Speaker 1: to be on the side of the road and in
Speaker 1: need of help and a quote unquote kindly Yeah. Personally, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, particularly when we're talking about was a Patricia, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she walks back, she she hitched there,
Speaker 1: she's got a hitch back, gets in the wrong car
Speaker 1: and oops. Yeah, I don't Yeah, I think that that
Speaker 1: was what it was. Because the trailer she was on,
Speaker 1: it was in a valley and she really couldn't wander
Speaker 1: far off the trail either direction. There was a creek
Speaker 1: right next to it on one side, and on both
Speaker 1: sides it was very rough, large rocks, windfalls and brush
Speaker 1: and everything like that, and then steep, steep valley walls,
Speaker 1: not not a lot of places to get lost. It
Speaker 1: would have found her body if she'd been lost. But
Speaker 1: but if she decides to do the same thing as
Speaker 1: Frieda and take a shortcut. I know there were some
Speaker 1: switchbacks here, and I can just cut across and then
Speaker 1: follows it too far down. She could very easily get
Speaker 1: way off of that trail, because you're right, it is
Speaker 1: valleys and and uh and decent. I mean, the photography
Speaker 1: isn't very nice in that area. I was looking at
Speaker 1: the contour maps. But the point is is that if
Speaker 1: you foolishly decide to hell with it, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: in the I'm going to get in the seam of
Speaker 1: these two hills and I'm going to follow it down
Speaker 1: and it's gonna take me to something. You can go
Speaker 1: a long way before you actually get to something, and
Speaker 1: that is a hard hike. It would be hard, especially
Speaker 1: in the dark. Yeah, or and with you know tennis shoes,
Speaker 1: we with the the lisanfrun cream Chris taste. I mean
Speaker 1: that that seemed like a likely possibility, right that they thought, oh,
Speaker 1: we'll just follow this canyon down and oops, no, that's
Speaker 1: not That turned out to be their downfall. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it happens, certainly, but it can happen. That
Speaker 1: about it is you would think you would find something, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: there is that you think you'd find something but also
Speaker 1: I read this blog or this guy who lives in
Speaker 1: the area went up and retraced your trail on that
Speaker 1: on long trail, and that's what he said. He said, like,
Speaker 1: you really aren't going to get far off the trail.
Speaker 1: I mean you could if you really wanted to. But
Speaker 1: he says it's so rough. There's so many big rocks
Speaker 1: and and windfalls to have to climb over and everything.
Speaker 1: He says, it going was so rough that he just
Speaker 1: thought it was really inconceivable that somebody could actually think
Speaker 1: it would be easier to take a shortcut here to there. Well,
Speaker 1: it's hard to get I guess no, No, I mean
Speaker 1: essentially that's that was kind of his point. It's like
Speaker 1: it was such rough going, I mean, nobody would go
Speaker 1: more than about ten before realizing that this is just
Speaker 1: not going to pay off. Well, I almost wonder if
Speaker 1: if she had no idea of how the trail went right,
Speaker 1: and she might have thought, oh, it kind of goes
Speaker 1: parallel to the road, and she's she gets an hour in,
Speaker 1: Say she gets a couple of hours in and realizes,
Speaker 1: I don't have any water, I'm getting dehydrated, have any food,
Speaker 1: I'm freezing. I wasn't ready for this, and in her
Speaker 1: mind she thinks and you know again it's it's one person.
Speaker 1: Because she thinks the road it's just over that little thing,
Speaker 1: you know. She starts to climb up that thing, and
Speaker 1: in her mind she's got to get there any minute.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't. I mean, you know, she would think it's
Speaker 1: this is definitely easier going than walking an hour back.
Speaker 1: There's no way I can get an hour back. I'm
Speaker 1: so tired. And she's climbing and thinking, you know, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, the road's right there, and you know is wrong,
Speaker 1: and you know, either decides I'll lay down and take
Speaker 1: a nap here or just hide for shelter. But let
Speaker 1: me throw this in there. They had like five planes
Speaker 1: also as part of this search, and there was there
Speaker 1: was like a lot of people out there beat the
Speaker 1: bush is looking for her. Oh no, I definitely more
Speaker 1: believe she got in the car with the serial killer.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to add a little, but I actually
Speaker 1: disagree with the guy that you were reading the writings
Speaker 1: of who was saying nobody would get off of this trail,
Speaker 1: because I was reading blogs by guys who have hiked
Speaker 1: that entire trail, and they have for one I can't
Speaker 1: remember what organization it is that maintains the long trail, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't, but but they they tell people to stay
Speaker 1: off of the trail. I want to say, from octobersh
Speaker 1: to like March, because it's so wet and it's so bad,
Speaker 1: and that's one reason. The other reason because it's washes
Speaker 1: out and it's slick and it's crappy, but it's also muddy.
Speaker 1: And this guy that I was reading who had hiked
Speaker 1: this trail, he had he'd actually classified it into six
Speaker 1: types of mud, from the slippery to the soggy to
Speaker 1: the boot removing type of mud. And you know, and
Speaker 1: if it's if it's all deciduous leaves and you can't
Speaker 1: tell what's going on, and you take it and you
Speaker 1: take a tumble in that, and you keep your walking
Speaker 1: on what is supposed to be the trail and oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's it's soggy and it's slick. You know
Speaker 1: what's easier people have been hiking over this. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna get off the trail a little bit and follow
Speaker 1: that because it won't be as bad because there's not
Speaker 1: as much foot traffic on it. Like, I can see
Speaker 1: why somebody would get off of the trail. But the
Speaker 1: thing about it is is you can't get I mean,
Speaker 1: the trail is essentially constrained by a mount by valley
Speaker 1: walls on both sides. I mean you can, you can't.
Speaker 1: You can get off the trail and walk parallel to it,
Speaker 1: but you can't just walk up at sixty degrees without
Speaker 1: coming in. But if you but if you're walking parallel
Speaker 1: to it, and then you start drifting. So let's say
Speaker 1: she's on the downhill side of the trail because it
Speaker 1: seems like it's sugar footing, and then she starts just
Speaker 1: drifting down the slope a little bit and eventually gets
Speaker 1: herself to a point where she has no idea where
Speaker 1: the hell the trail is any I have. I have
Speaker 1: a problem with that, and that is that there were
Speaker 1: other a lot of other people on the trail, and
Speaker 1: they mentioned it was really us out, would they though
Speaker 1: in the nineteen forty well, no, this is I mean,
Speaker 1: it's clear weather, but the trail is gonna be soggy.
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you look at what is in
Speaker 1: the news articles, they don't really talk about the conditions.
Speaker 1: They're all focusing on her because she's a college aged girl,
Speaker 1: and her dad because he is a prominent industrialist, and
Speaker 1: they don't guess focus on that because the reporting of
Speaker 1: the time doesn't encompass everything. They just this is what
Speaker 1: people don't know. Well, I mean, regardless of that, I
Speaker 1: really think I agree with Joe that you know, if
Speaker 1: her body had been there would have been found. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, you don't seem to agree with No, I don't,
Speaker 1: but that's fine. Yeah, I just think it's much more
Speaker 1: lackly she made it out of there because you know,
Speaker 1: she was not dumb. I mean it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like I think she would have just stuck with
Speaker 1: the trail and mose I'm back out and down to
Speaker 1: the road again. Unless she intentionally wandered away. Maybe she
Speaker 1: just wanted to go off a commit suicide. I mean,
Speaker 1: there there are people who say that she was having
Speaker 1: a she was not in good spirits lately, and there's
Speaker 1: the whole thing about her fight with her dead whatever
Speaker 1: that might have been, And it might have been some
Speaker 1: some suicide attempt that it was successful. Maybe she managed
Speaker 1: to do it and actually conceal herself. Yeah, she burrowed
Speaker 1: into a nook in the ground. There's caves in that area.
Speaker 1: She could have gone into a cave for shelter or
Speaker 1: intentionally to to die, and you know, nobody ever found
Speaker 1: her in that cave until you know, long after she's
Speaker 1: decomposed and the animals have scattered around and nobody notices it. Um, hey,
Speaker 1: wait a second, So I know this is probably my fault,
Speaker 1: but I got us way off a track and off
Speaker 1: trail we're looking at in front of us. So we're
Speaker 1: still on serial killer or because I feel like I
Speaker 1: drug us away from that, well maybe threw us into
Speaker 1: the We're sort of going back and forth between. We
Speaker 1: can't agree that they are necessarily meant the same fate,
Speaker 1: but we're talking. We're kind of on serial killer versus
Speaker 1: getting lost in the woods. I'm voting for she made
Speaker 1: it back to the Apollo made it back to the road.
Speaker 1: That's Highway nine hits the ride with a friendly stranger
Speaker 1: who was psycho and killed her. That's what I think happened.
Speaker 1: I think she met Bob, could have meant Bobs name
Speaker 1: cat Bobcat. Zerios does have bobcats, Yeah, and bobcats are
Speaker 1: a little Have you ever been scratched by a cat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying multiplay that by the size, like the area,
Speaker 1: they were considered a environment or a nuisance in the area.
Speaker 1: And while they used to be hunted for um what,
Speaker 1: I can't remember the reward because they would you know
Speaker 1: certain stat Yes, that's it, but there was there was that,
Speaker 1: and there are bear in the area. There's actually I
Speaker 1: guess bobcats aren't the only cat, but there are big
Speaker 1: cats in there. Yeah, we're talking about cougars or whatever.
Speaker 1: I'll accept to a bob cat. Okay, so if you
Speaker 1: say care though, if we say that kind of cat,
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible. Let's just pretend for a second that
Speaker 1: she didn't get taken by a person, but she did
Speaker 1: get taken by a cat. A lot of times those
Speaker 1: cats dragged their prey up into a truggers sugars do Yeah,
Speaker 1: which would you know? That would explain why nobody found
Speaker 1: her body on the ground. I was going to say,
Speaker 1: I just have to prove a point. Bobcats and max
Speaker 1: out at about twenty five pounds. But they're mean, but
Speaker 1: they're little, but they're mean but still anyway, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, in case you're little and your mean that's
Speaker 1: true because I'm close to Hell. Oh yeah, So with Paul,
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about a little bit more about well
Speaker 1: as far as there the mysterious disappearance you talked about
Speaker 1: that she might have nipped away to go pee. Remember
Speaker 1: she noticed she was being followed back up with the people.
Speaker 1: She wasn't sure who they were, what their attentions were.
Speaker 1: She a, yeah, you know, I could see that, or
Speaker 1: just didn't want human company. But I'm still thinking that.
Speaker 1: I think Paula made it back to the road. I agree,
Speaker 1: And she met a friendly but helpful and helpful stranger
Speaker 1: who offered to give her a ride. Yeah that's Bob uh.
Speaker 1: And then there's James Tedford. So that the three here
Speaker 1: that says Paul, Paula and James. Um. The thing that
Speaker 1: they haven't common for me is their proximity to a road.
Speaker 1: He was on a road on a bush. He was
Speaker 1: seen on the bus and remember that I think the
Speaker 1: relevant clue. Here's the bus schedule that they found laying
Speaker 1: on the seat next to him that was open. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking that James was sitting there in the
Speaker 1: bus station in Manchester, uh and probably had one of
Speaker 1: those momentary realized, Hey, you know, I probably need to
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom before we hit the road again.
Speaker 1: So you know, what do you do? He wants to
Speaker 1: know how much time he's got, so he pulls out
Speaker 1: the bus schedule and says, hey, I've got ten minutes
Speaker 1: for the bus leaves Manchester. So off he goes, and meantime,
Speaker 1: maybe his watches off, or maybe sometimes things in the
Speaker 1: bathroom just take a little longer to take that. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean alternately he thought, oh, I have time to
Speaker 1: go grab a piece of pie from that dine over there.
Speaker 1: It took a little longer, yeah, than anticipated. Well, and
Speaker 1: the thing is he because the buses had been so
Speaker 1: delayed by the snowstorm that was going on at the
Speaker 1: time he had There's accounts that somebody that knew him
Speaker 1: ran into him at one of the bus stops and
Speaker 1: chatted with him. So, I mean, it wasn't as if
Speaker 1: he was just hiding on the bus the entire time.
Speaker 1: But you would get off, I mean, you get off
Speaker 1: and stretch your legs. But I have huge problems with
Speaker 1: the Tedford story. Yeah, well that not everything was has
Speaker 1: been consistently reported. Well, the yeah, the problem is is
Speaker 1: that he was on this bus. We think, you know,
Speaker 1: around the first of December, but the Old Soul is
Speaker 1: it the old Soldier's home. Yeah, that's where he was at, right,
Speaker 1: that's where he was staying. They called. They called his
Speaker 1: family a week later to say, hey, so, like, is
Speaker 1: he really coming back or what because we're holding his bed,
Speaker 1: at which point then his family turns around and calls
Speaker 1: the cops, and the cops then tracked down the bus
Speaker 1: driver and the people that are on the bus of
Speaker 1: week after that. Literally there's full two weeks of time
Speaker 1: between the actual incident and when the cops talk to him.
Speaker 1: So these people like, oh yeah, I remember looking over
Speaker 1: and totally seen him sleeping on the bus with the
Speaker 1: schedule next to him. Oh yeah, it was weird that
Speaker 1: I noticed he wasn't there, And it's made out to
Speaker 1: be as if minutes between these events it's you know,
Speaker 1: there's problems with that one, but well there's problems with it,
Speaker 1: but still and and so, and that's why I don't
Speaker 1: I don't see this one in terms of him vanishing
Speaker 1: just like that, like by magic off the moving bus. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I never bought that to begin with that,
Speaker 1: he never spared off the yellow bus. Now, I figured
Speaker 1: he got off the magic school bus. He had the
Speaker 1: magic but but you know, so I figured he got
Speaker 1: off the bus. Nonetheless, he did disappear. There ain't no
Speaker 1: disputing that. And it could have been that he just
Speaker 1: ran away. It could have been and which is possible.
Speaker 1: Or it could be that he got off the bus
Speaker 1: and history with a friendly, helpful stranger turned out to
Speaker 1: be a psycho killer. Or he could have just become,
Speaker 1: you know, part of the moving, massive homeless people that
Speaker 1: that shuffle around in those areas. I mean, he doesn't
Speaker 1: have anything to really go back to at the Old
Speaker 1: Soldiers Home other than he's paid for I'm assuming he
Speaker 1: paid for unless the Feds were paying for the Old
Speaker 1: Soldiers So I don't know how those work, but let's
Speaker 1: just say that he's not paying for anything. He's like,
Speaker 1: you know what, That place really blows and I really
Speaker 1: hate listening to Bob tell war stories all day long.
Speaker 1: Screw it, I'm gonna hang out here. And then it's December.
Speaker 1: There's a giant freaking snowstorm. He gets kicked out of
Speaker 1: the bus station, and he dies in an alley of
Speaker 1: exposure with no idea on him. Because somebody rolls his
Speaker 1: body over and steals his wallet, we would never know
Speaker 1: because the emmy is going to have nothing to identify
Speaker 1: him with. Like, there's very simple ways, especially with Tedford. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: there are, I mean there are there are other ways.
Speaker 1: But again, somebody local freezes to death, and and meantime
Speaker 1: Tedford has disappeared, somebody's gonna make at least a little
Speaker 1: bit of an effort to connect those thoughts. I would think,
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's the case, because the cops
Speaker 1: are going and hunting down these people that are now
Speaker 1: far Afield and maybe the local man let's just say
Speaker 1: it was Manchester. Is that who you were saying? If
Speaker 1: it was the local Manchester p D may not have
Speaker 1: been the ones that were investigating. Yeah, well, I mean
Speaker 1: they might not have, but you would think there's some
Speaker 1: sort of register of local missing people. I don't know.
Speaker 1: In the fifties is sometimes it feels like they played
Speaker 1: things a little more fast and loose, whereas today everything
Speaker 1: is just you know, fill in the forms. It's all
Speaker 1: the data we can. We always pull it in access
Speaker 1: that we know exactly what's going on, generally speaking, and
Speaker 1: I guess it's not a perfect system. But I don't
Speaker 1: feel like that's the case in you know, typewriters and
Speaker 1: rolodex days. No, I mean, it definitely was all manual.
Speaker 1: I mean you couldn't have computer cross matching or anything.
Speaker 1: But again, people were, people were reading the local papers,
Speaker 1: people would have seen his pictures and and so it's
Speaker 1: it'sn't theoretically, but it's theoretically possible that what you're saying,
Speaker 1: it's you. I find it actually a little easier to
Speaker 1: believe that he got off the bus at some point
Speaker 1: and was and was nabbed by a serial killer. But
Speaker 1: you know, marginally, but I admit that what you're talking
Speaker 1: about is also possible. I mean, Sarah, killers are actually
Speaker 1: sometimes easier to believe, you know. I'm mostly just say, yeah,
Speaker 1: he got off the bus at Manchester and walking, missed
Speaker 1: the bus and I don't know what happened, and then
Speaker 1: just caught another bus to somewhere else and started over,
Speaker 1: started working and named himself Benjamin Kyle and got on
Speaker 1: with it entirely. That's entirely possible, right there. No, it
Speaker 1: is poss well, I mean, it's it's an interesting little story,
Speaker 1: and certainly maybe he was murdered but there's other possibilities. Um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean and and so it's really hard
Speaker 1: to say with all these if they're related at all.
Speaker 1: I think they might be. It's entirely possible that there
Speaker 1: was there's a serial killer doing something. What about Frieda though, Okay,
Speaker 1: so I didn't talk about Freedo. No, we haven't talked,
Speaker 1: because we've talked about Paul and Paula and Paul and
Speaker 1: Paula and James and and well so we you yeah,
Speaker 1: because earlier you said you thought it was probably a
Speaker 1: hunting access So what about Frieda because she's the only one,
Speaker 1: so she's the last one. Well, and Freeda is the
Speaker 1: one that I say is I don't you know, so
Speaker 1: far away from the whole Bennington area, you can't really
Speaker 1: say she's part of the triangle anyway. But that's another
Speaker 1: one that's kind of like Middy and that, and that
Speaker 1: it would have taken a very very very skilled and
Speaker 1: hannibal elector type of serial killer to naver in the
Speaker 1: woods just for one thing to just be lucky enough
Speaker 1: to be happening to be right there. Once she had
Speaker 1: hustling by, to go back to the camp to change
Speaker 1: your clothes, and and then nab her and Carter off
Speaker 1: to god knows where and do his thing and murder
Speaker 1: her and everything. That's why I think there's other possibilities
Speaker 1: she could have gotten lost. I don't think so. And
Speaker 1: the reason I say that is because how they found
Speaker 1: your body. I think most likely she went back to camp.
Speaker 1: She and her husband argued the husband killed her accidentally
Speaker 1: or not hit the body, and then you know, later
Speaker 1: on when it was more opportunity time in the search
Speaker 1: had died, anyone back and retreated the body and dumped
Speaker 1: it somewhere else. Hit it where that inter sleeping bag
Speaker 1: because those are so easy to roll up, and you
Speaker 1: would never tell that it was lumpy and full of
Speaker 1: human That's true. No, really, I actually I'm being a jerk.
Speaker 1: But she she makes a really good point of how
Speaker 1: do you hide the body and then have that massive
Speaker 1: people come looking? Well, here's the deal. If you hide
Speaker 1: the body like ten or twenty ft from the camp sign,
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna look there. Are you sure? I'm sure? If
Speaker 1: they say, hey, i'm gonna look, I'm gonna look right
Speaker 1: over here behind this stuff, can just say I just
Speaker 1: want to pe behind that stump. I know, for sure
Speaker 1: she's not there. So Steve, when Joe finally murders me, yeah,
Speaker 1: make sure to do a really thorough search wherever the
Speaker 1: last place. Just be like, hey, Joe, where were you
Speaker 1: last And he'll be like, oh, behind that stump, and
Speaker 1: you'll be like, great, that's definitely where Evan's body is.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it, I know. But that's that's just
Speaker 1: a possibility. I mean, obviously maybe a murder, maybe the
Speaker 1: husband did it. I don't know, Uh, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't see her getting lost though, really because she had
Speaker 1: all kinds of people out there beating the brush looking
Speaker 1: for her. But if she took the shortcut and I actually,
Speaker 1: so this is the other thing. I know I said
Speaker 1: this before with Paula, But she's also going to be
Speaker 1: in an area that is a deciduous forest, which is
Speaker 1: known for I mean, for the love of God, the
Speaker 1: Northeast is known for their fall and the number of
Speaker 1: leaves that change color and then hit the ground. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure I know Davin has I don't know if
Speaker 1: you have, Joe, but I've walked through those fours when
Speaker 1: it's nothing but leaves, and depending on where you're at,
Speaker 1: you know, it can be six inches or more of
Speaker 1: leaf litter, and also can happen seemingly over a night. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it can be like, well, there's
Speaker 1: no way I mean it was. It wasn't it was
Speaker 1: twenty four hours ago. There's no way that this leaf
Speaker 1: cover is. I don't need to poke it because there's
Speaker 1: no way there's a body under there. But I mean
Speaker 1: it could have had all of those trees could have
Speaker 1: just lost their leaves in the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: So like in the case of Paula, it's entirely possible
Speaker 1: that let's say there's I'm gonna use a log, there's
Speaker 1: a log on the ground, and she curls up next
Speaker 1: to it as a wind break and dies of exposure,
Speaker 1: and then the trees above her all the side to
Speaker 1: let go of their leaves at one time, and she
Speaker 1: is completely covered and it is just a log shaped
Speaker 1: hump in the ground. And somebody goes, oh, well, it's
Speaker 1: just a log, okay, and they keep they don't searched
Speaker 1: the entire length of it. Well, that's that's one reason.
Speaker 1: That's the one reason too that I'm not that enthusiastic
Speaker 1: about lumping this in with the rest of the Bennington
Speaker 1: disappearances anyway, because it's it's far Paula, though not freed
Speaker 1: oh paul I was talking about for Paula. Paula. Paula
Speaker 1: disappeared December one. I mean Arnold leaves down by that
Speaker 1: time in New England. Wouldn't free to disappear, free to
Speaker 1: disappear October? Okay, So yeah, okay, I'm getting them back.
Speaker 1: I apologize. I think I agree. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: Frieda shouldn't be lumped in anyway. Her body was found
Speaker 1: and she could possibly have wandered off. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the only thing about it is I think she was murdered.
Speaker 1: Well I think probably too, because here's the deal. Is that,
Speaker 1: so she falls into the creek, she tells her cousin
Speaker 1: to go ahead and continue at the trail. She's just
Speaker 1: gonna dash back, change close, come back and meet him. Therefore,
Speaker 1: they could not have been very far from camp at all.
Speaker 1: I want to know why the hell her cousin didn't
Speaker 1: just walk back with her or just wait or just
Speaker 1: yeah or just wait. Yeah. It is a little weird.
Speaker 1: But the thing about it is is they had to
Speaker 1: have been close enough that if she had gotten lost,
Speaker 1: or fallen and broken her ankle or whatever. She should
Speaker 1: have been within hearing. Just she should have been, because otherwise,
Speaker 1: how could she possibly hope to go all the way back,
Speaker 1: change your clothes, come all the way back and catch
Speaker 1: up with him unless they were really close. Maybe she
Speaker 1: went to town for a beer run. Yeah, maybe she
Speaker 1: just decided if she was going to disappear and start
Speaker 1: a new life and call herself Bernie Sanders. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: could have been twice. Bernie Sanders is in this episode
Speaker 1: two different people. Yeah, she was fifty three at the time.
Speaker 1: That would make her about the right agg given that
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is exactly Okay then of the series. No,
Speaker 1: I mean, I it's hard. It's very hard to say,
Speaker 1: but there there does seem like there were a bit
Speaker 1: more than the average disappearances in this little area. Uh
Speaker 1: that but doesn't necessarily made a supervene a triangular and time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is just there's a really
Speaker 1: hard trail right there. Yeah, the trail the serial killer.
Speaker 1: That'll count for some of it. It's interesting that it
Speaker 1: all stopped in nine Okay, So I mean, I I
Speaker 1: really think that the only theory that loops all of
Speaker 1: these together neatly in a nice little bow is aliens,
Speaker 1: that's true. I say it's the state of Vermont is
Speaker 1: the only thing that connects these people, and that's it.
Speaker 1: I think Bigfoot and I like Vermont, but I'm blaming
Speaker 1: Vermont because they all happen to live there. Damn. Actually,
Speaker 1: you know what, before we get too far the you
Speaker 1: know who we have there was one of the things
Speaker 1: for Middy rivers. So you do know that there's a
Speaker 1: whole there's a number of ghost towns in that area, right,
Speaker 1: I've heard this. The lumber industry kind of went away, right, Well,
Speaker 1: it was the lumber industry that they're making charcoal. So
Speaker 1: there is the there is a theory out there that
Speaker 1: there were old wells and that Middy, MIDDI and or
Speaker 1: maybe one or two of the other people accidentally stumbled
Speaker 1: across an old well and they're actually in the bottom
Speaker 1: of that and not in the bottom of a well
Speaker 1: with a man who says it puts the lotion on
Speaker 1: its skin. He's too old for that, so that doesn't
Speaker 1: really know. Yeah, I know that one for the lotion
Speaker 1: you mean yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, good point. No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's always there's always the old well thing. Although you
Speaker 1: think that Timmy in the well, oh yeah, but you
Speaker 1: think that if there was that much of that going on,
Speaker 1: there would be more disappearances. Although maybe people got smarter
Speaker 1: about avoiding wells. You know, I don't know. They're just
Speaker 1: full of bodies now anymore and padded fall in. But
Speaker 1: it's like a clump, crunch and climb back out and
Speaker 1: question ever happen? Yeah, it's rather gross. Okay, yeah, well, okay,
Speaker 1: a little housekeeping here, hey, yeah, well, first off, you're
Speaker 1: probably wanting to know how you can get a hold
Speaker 1: of us, And of course we have an email, this
Speaker 1: thing called email, and our email address is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. And of course we have
Speaker 1: a website that is amazingly enough called Thinking Sideways podcast
Speaker 1: dot com where you can actually download episodes that you
Speaker 1: can listen and all that stuff. Comments are off. But
Speaker 1: also we have a link to like uh merch and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. In by T shirts, I'm wearing a
Speaker 1: T shirt right now, Oh my gosh, you are, well
Speaker 1: not just any old T shirt, that Thinking Sideways T shirt. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: And there's a mugs and stickers and all kinds of
Speaker 1: fun stuff like that. You will also find us on iTunes,
Speaker 1: where you can download us. You can subscribe, which is awesome.
Speaker 1: You can rate us, give us a review, preferably a
Speaker 1: really good review. Uh, and where else you can stream
Speaker 1: us all kinds of places like Google Play and everywhere else. Well,
Speaker 1: you've probably heard of the stinkcoed social media. So we
Speaker 1: are on Facebook, where we have a group and a page.
Speaker 1: So join the group, like the page or was it
Speaker 1: like the group and join the page? I can't remember. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's good. We're on Twitter, where we are thinking sideways
Speaker 1: and where you can see a picture of Joe in
Speaker 1: his shirt. Oh yeah, and we have a subreddit thinking sideways.
Speaker 1: Oh god, what else that's going on? That's about it.
Speaker 1: I think cool. Alright, Well in okay, thank for me
Speaker 1: to mosey on down the trail. I'm going back to
Speaker 1: Blue Ben. Good for you. I'm going to ask the
Speaker 1: bears what they think.