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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by the dingo

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Speaker 1: that might have eaten a baby. Instead, it's brought to

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Speaker 1: you by crime Con. That's Friday June nine through Sunday

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Speaker 1: June seventeen in Indianapolis. We're going to be there. Uh,

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Speaker 1: lots of other people are going to be there. K

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Speaker 1: nine search dogs are gonna be there. You might be

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Speaker 1: able to pet them. It's possible. For tickets or more information,

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Speaker 1: you can go to crime con dot com and when

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Speaker 1: you're purchasing your tickets, if you use the promo code

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Speaker 1: sideways twenty, you'll get off your tickets. So that's crime

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Speaker 1: con dot com Sideways twenty. We'll see you there thinking sideways.

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Speaker 1: I don't know stories of things we simply don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer to. Well, hi there, and welcome to an

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Speaker 1: other episode of Thinking Sudways. I'm Joe, joined as always

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Speaker 1: by Steve and exactly, Devin and E V Y I

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Speaker 1: z k W autostrophe L y I sweet. All right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why that is always messing it up. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got okay, all right, Well back to the important part

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Speaker 1: of the mystery, which is uh, yeah, well that's important.

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Speaker 1: But we talked about that on Facebook. Two, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about this week's mystery, Yeah, which is there's a strange

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Speaker 1: geographical patch of area in the northeastern United States where

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Speaker 1: people just vanish, don't don't do exactly. Some people call

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Speaker 1: it the Bennington Triangle, although that was actually kind of

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Speaker 1: a recent appellation. I think that happened in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: Somebody actually tagged at a se Bennington trying, which is

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Speaker 1: long after people stopped disappearing there. Actually. But by the way,

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Speaker 1: I shout out to Nicole Hei Nicole, because she suggested

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Speaker 1: this one. Nicole. Yeah, by the way, technically I think

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Speaker 1: people are still being said to disappear in this triangle. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the most recent one I saw was two

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Speaker 1: thousand eleven. Oh you're talking about Yeah, I know how

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Speaker 1: you're talking about that seventeen year old kid. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: but he was like he was actually from like clear

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Speaker 1: across the state over like Rattleborough or someone like that. Listen,

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Speaker 1: you can't confine the boundaries of this triangle justice one

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Speaker 1: geographic area. Yeah, sorry, you kind of like and there's

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Speaker 1: enough you can't handle the geography, Okay, I gotta I

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Speaker 1: gotta be more fluid in my thinking. I get what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, yeah, there's actually there's five classic disappearances that

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Speaker 1: always get lumped in with these, and one of these

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Speaker 1: is actually kind of another one is actually kind of

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Speaker 1: far away too. Yeah, but oh well we'll talk. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's deal with it here. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna start

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Speaker 1: this off kind of randomly. We'll start with the most

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Speaker 1: fascinating one, because this was the appearance of James Edward Tedford,

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Speaker 1: who vanished off a bus. Yeah. Now, at least it's

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Speaker 1: not Edward Edward Tedford. But and I just got just

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Speaker 1: a circular whose name was Edward Edwards is Edward W. Edwards,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of weird unless his middle

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Speaker 1: name was maybe Ward. I think I worked with a

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Speaker 1: guy whose name was Edward Edwards. Might have been the

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Speaker 1: same guy, hopefully not. Yeah, but yeah, sorry, so so

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Speaker 1: ed ted Oh yeah, yeah, so James ed ted He

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Speaker 1: vanished off a bus somewhere between eight St. Albans, Vermont

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Speaker 1: and Bennington, Vermont. Geographically speaking, they are at the north

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Speaker 1: and south south ends of the states. Respect Yeah, I'll

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Speaker 1: give you a quick background on James Tedfordum, he was

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Speaker 1: born it's believed around eighteen eighty four and about the

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Speaker 1: time he disappeared, he would have been in his late sixties. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He had actually been conscripted apparently for World War Two.

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Speaker 1: You've done like two different tours. Is that sounds right

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Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah. He I don't imagine they had

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Speaker 1: him out there like you know, and you know, in

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Speaker 1: the infantry or anything because of his age. But picking

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Speaker 1: stripted a lot of people who were like well passed

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Speaker 1: the standard military Asian World War two. But he was

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Speaker 1: married to a much younger woman, and apparently she vanished

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Speaker 1: when he came back from the war. She was gone

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Speaker 1: literally half his age, yeah, something like that. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so he was fifty, yeah, and she was twenty eight.

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Speaker 1: I remember that when she disappeared quote unquote disappeared. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's quite so mysterious. She just found

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Speaker 1: somebody else and that was that. So but so he um,

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Speaker 1: he decided to check himself into a like an old

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Speaker 1: soldier's home in Bennington, Vermont, which she probably shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: done in retrospect, home of the Apple Barn. Yeah it

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Speaker 1: is it really, yeah, but it's fine. Let's keep going.

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Speaker 1: I did not know that, yeah, Manning, And actually I

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Speaker 1: believe it is like you know, like the burial place

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Speaker 1: of Robert Frost, isn't it I think it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's there's a little more history there than there is

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Speaker 1: a here in Portland. But but anyway, he he had

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Speaker 1: family in St Albans Uh survery the time of the

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Speaker 1: year he was up there in late November. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: it was for Thanksgiving, yeah yeah, and then see on

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Speaker 1: God on this bus uh in St Albans And and

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Speaker 1: if he had disappeared in St Alberns, it would not

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Speaker 1: have been a surprise. It's of course up there near

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Speaker 1: the Kanuckish standing border. You know, our neighbors to the north,

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Speaker 1: the Kanuck kanukis Stan and Uh. And in those days,

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Speaker 1: nomadic bands of fierce Kanucky tribesmen were often crossing the

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Speaker 1: border and carrying helpless Americans off in the bondage to

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Speaker 1: be slaves or concubines or valets or whatever. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then after the U. S. Canada War nineteen fifty six,

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Speaker 1: we installed Dance Strubberry on our side of the border

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Speaker 1: and that pretty much solved the problem. Yeah, yeah, thank God.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, but he didn't disappear in St Albans. He

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Speaker 1: disappeared way further south, what happened is sometime not long

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Speaker 1: before December one, nineteen forty nine, he boarded that bus

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Speaker 1: in St Albans and headed back to Bennington. Bus one

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Speaker 1: south on Highway seven which I believe is now Highways

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Speaker 1: seven A on the maps. If you look at it

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Speaker 1: on Google, it looks like the old highway is now

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Speaker 1: seven A and then the new highways is seven. Now.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised by that. They do that all

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Speaker 1: the time. Oh yeah, Yeah, there's just ones like this

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Speaker 1: where there's like old patches of the old one that

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Speaker 1: there's some some of it that goes over the old one,

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Speaker 1: and then they just sort of branch off from one another. Um.

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Speaker 1: But normally this was about an eight hour trip, and

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Speaker 1: that I heard it was longer this particular one because

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Speaker 1: there was snow. Yeah, I think it was delayed by

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Speaker 1: six or eight hours. Yeah, which would make for a

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Speaker 1: tedious bus trip. But witnesses did see James Tadford board

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Speaker 1: the bus and Saint Albans uh and witnesses on the

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Speaker 1: bus and including I believe the driver saw him on

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Speaker 1: the bus at their last stop, which I'm guessing was

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Speaker 1: man second. I thought it was the last stopment well,

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Speaker 1: I guess it would be the second to last, second

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Speaker 1: last stop before Bennington. Correct, yeah, second to last stop, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to assume that that was Manchester, which

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Speaker 1: is about twenty miles north of Bennington. I don't really

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Speaker 1: know that for h let's just assume for the sake

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Speaker 1: of assuming that it was Manchester. Um, so, his fellow

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Speaker 1: passengers see him on the bus in Manchester. But then

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Speaker 1: the bus arrives in Bennington and Tedford was gone. He

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Speaker 1: was doing His luggage was still on the bus. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand what we have times on this. Just

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Speaker 1: just let it go, okay, sorry, just let it go.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, his luggage was on the bus. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: it was also an open bus timetable sitting on the

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Speaker 1: seat next to where he had been sitting. But that

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Speaker 1: was it. He was gone. Nobody saw him leave the bus.

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Speaker 1: I saw, uh, it wasn't read it. It was a

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Speaker 1: similar kind of website. I saw somebody theoriz said he

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Speaker 1: had wanted to go off and start a new life,

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Speaker 1: and so when he got to Bennington he just slid

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Speaker 1: down and hid underneath his seat. Yeah, but that was yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: those you know, even in the old days. I doubt

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Speaker 1: that they were that roomy underneath there. Well, but even still,

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Speaker 1: like like, that's not the first place the bus driver

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Speaker 1: is gonna look like, oh, I'll just peek under the seats,

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Speaker 1: like at least to see if he left anything. Huh, Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure, I mean, but yeah, so it's maybe he

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Speaker 1: was little. Maybe he was that could have been people

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Speaker 1: back in those days where it's true. That's a good point,

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Speaker 1: but I find that hard to believe. But anyway, so

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Speaker 1: he vanished from a moving bus in air apparently zip yeah,

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Speaker 1: teleported away by the aliens. His family reported missing to

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Speaker 1: the police on December one, and of course there was

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Speaker 1: a search, there was there were lots of newspaper articles

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Speaker 1: about it. But James Tedford never showed up again and

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Speaker 1: they never found him. They never found his body. That

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Speaker 1: was it into thin air. So that was one of

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Speaker 1: the more notable disappearances in the Bennington triangle. So this

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Speaker 1: guy just I mean, it was a strange story because

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Speaker 1: we used to these stories about some guy who wanted

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Speaker 1: off into the woods and it's never seen again. Well

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Speaker 1: that happens, get eaten by bears or something. Disappearing off

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Speaker 1: a bus traveling down the highway. You can understand why

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Speaker 1: this story is has been so popular with the UFO crowd. Right, well,

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Speaker 1: so many questions, so many questions, and will we Okay,

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Speaker 1: the fologist in me is not happy about this. You

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Speaker 1: don't like this one. No, the follogist in me is

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Speaker 1: not happy that we're putting on. We're putting off talking

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Speaker 1: about but okay, let's talk about Let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: next one. Okay, we will, um, yeah, so we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the aliens Teleportinghi off the bus here in a

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Speaker 1: little bit. But he wasn't the first of the last

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Speaker 1: person to just vanish in the triangle. Exactly three years

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Speaker 1: before somebody else also disappeared to the day. Well I

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Speaker 1: don't know. He was reported missing on December one, and

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Speaker 1: this other person disappeared on December one, so Ted Firs,

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, yeah, it's just pretty much on the

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Speaker 1: day his bus his bus ride was on the first?

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Speaker 1: Was it on the first? His his bus ride was

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Speaker 1: this right here? He was on a bus sometime on

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Speaker 1: or just before before. I fighted that a little bit

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Speaker 1: much because yeah, I wasn't really sure it might have

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Speaker 1: been the day before, but still close enough for government work, right,

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Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, they're not that far. I mean, Vermont's

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Speaker 1: not giant. No, it's a it's a tight little place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, okay, um but okay, three years

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Speaker 1: before this person who disappeared actually did wander off into

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Speaker 1: the woods. So okay, that's a little more like it.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of more what we used to And her

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Speaker 1: name was Paula gene Weldon. She was eighteen student at

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Speaker 1: Bennington College, which is in North Bennington. So why did

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Speaker 1: I'll call it North Bennington College. I don't quite get it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if it's going to be in North Bennington,

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Speaker 1: it should be called North Bennington College, right. North Bennington

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Speaker 1: is separate from Bennington. Uh. And it's not a neighborhood

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Speaker 1: of Bennington. It's it's a whole another town, part of

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Speaker 1: the greater Bennington area. Yeah, it's probably part of the

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Speaker 1: metro area or something like that. But there's definitely some

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Speaker 1: green space in between the two. It's not a suburb really,

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Speaker 1: um and so, and it's also northwest of Bennington. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's not called Northwest Bennington because it's

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Speaker 1: north of Benington. It's north but it's really Northwest. It's

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Speaker 1: still worth of it. I think you're going to get

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Speaker 1: so many angry emails from the people of that town. Okay, sorry,

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Speaker 1: Bennington North End regular that you don't need to be

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Speaker 1: angry with us. Actually I got us by the way,

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Speaker 1: just just to give you guys a compliment. I gotta

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Speaker 1: street you, of course, and did a little tour of

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Speaker 1: Bennington and North Bennington and they they looked like a

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Speaker 1: very pleasant little places. Did you guys go Look, I've

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Speaker 1: been to Bennington, so yeah, how'd you like it? I

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Speaker 1: liked it. It's it's actually got like my favorite diner

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Speaker 1: in like ever, like the best breakfast I've ever had

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Speaker 1: at the Blue ben We used to drep when I

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Speaker 1: lived in Massachusetts. We would drive up there like once

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Speaker 1: a month to get I mean it was we would

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Speaker 1: get in the car and drive for like four hours

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Speaker 1: to get brunch at this place. So, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's cute. It's nice little town. College the days when

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Speaker 1: that was easy to do, it was it was not college,

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Speaker 1: it was work even that's how much we like. I

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Speaker 1: didn't notice stand my my tallerant for long car drives

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Speaker 1: was a lot higher when I was at age than

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Speaker 1: that first change that changes as you get a little

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Speaker 1: older in it. Where are we Att's I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: Bennington itself. Let's talk about to talk about Paula Welton. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so she was a sophomore at Bennington. She was from

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Speaker 1: a well off Connecticut family, and there didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be anything too dramatic going on in your life. But

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Speaker 1: apparently she had had a little bit of a following

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Speaker 1: out with your dad and she didn't go home for Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned they let the family lived in Connecticut, so

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Speaker 1: not that far away. But at the same time, she

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Speaker 1: was also eighteen, and so you know, you know what

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Speaker 1: that's like. You know, they were rebelling a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and so the littlest thing set you off. Yeah, can

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Speaker 1: can can necessarily. Yeah. There's also reports that she had

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Speaker 1: been a little depressed in the days leading up to

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Speaker 1: her disappearance. So that makes me believe that she skipped

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Speaker 1: down and started a new life under the name Bernie Sanders.

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Speaker 1: Not really, well maybe I think so. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: kind of the right age free, but there's there's something

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Speaker 1: to make it right. But yes, yeah, okay, but Bernie

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Speaker 1: or not on this on the Afternoon is Sunday, December one,

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Speaker 1: Paula asked her roommate if she wanted to go for

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Speaker 1: a hike. Her roommate, Hannibal Elector. Her roommates not Hannibal Elector, Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: said she was busy, she begged us. So Paula decided

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Speaker 1: to go off on her own, and according to most reports,

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Speaker 1: Paula really wanted to hike what's called the Long Trail,

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Speaker 1: which is it kind of runs to the east of

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Speaker 1: Bennington north and south, goes like you know, it goes

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Speaker 1: from the bottom of the state to the top of

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Speaker 1: the state essentially. Yeah. So at southern end of the

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Speaker 1: trail acrosses the border in to Massachusetts, North Dakota somewhere

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Speaker 1: I don't know whatever south of there. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: at the northern end it stops at some really dense

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Speaker 1: shrubbery uh. And there's well, it's part of the Appalachian Trail,

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Speaker 1: right it is, I believe, Yeah, and so I certainly

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Speaker 1: if you look at it on Google, it says it

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Speaker 1: all Trades Long Trail, Appalachian Trail, Long Trail, Appellation Trail.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so yeah, it's kind of cool. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to hike it someday. Except I disappeared. I guess I

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Speaker 1: can't do that. But anyway, Paula never could have made

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Speaker 1: it to the border with Canada. Um, so there's no

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Speaker 1: reasonably the Canadians napped her and you know, and she

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Speaker 1: wound up living the rest of her days in slavery, yeah,

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Speaker 1: gas or being somebody's valet or god knows what it is.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, Bennington is in the southwest corner of

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Speaker 1: the state, and it's a long long way from Canada.

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Speaker 1: It's it's much closer to Massachusetts. Senators Canada. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: much closer. It's it's a stone strow away from New York.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean it'd be it'd be a hard throw,

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Speaker 1: but it's a stone throw. Just yeah, I look it

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Speaker 1: up on the NAP. Yeah yeah, you'll see it right there.

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Speaker 1: Paula left the Bennington campus around two thirty pm and

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Speaker 1: she headed south to Highway sixties seven. What sort of

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Speaker 1: goes at that point? Kind of east west? Uh? There

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Speaker 1: she history ride with a guy named Louis Nap who

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Speaker 1: drove her to Highway nine. Apparently Highway Night branches off

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Speaker 1: Highway sixty seven heads out towards the town called Woodford Hollow.

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Speaker 1: And pass Woodford Hollow. He dropped her about three miles

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Speaker 1: short of Woodford Hollow, which is where the Long Trail starts.

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Speaker 1: That's where it crosses Highway nine. Did she know, Louis,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe. So she was just truly okay, great,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, and uh and

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Speaker 1: apparently talk about much. She just said she wanted to

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Speaker 1: ride out to Highway nine and then wanted him nasking,

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Speaker 1: you know, about the Long Trail, and that was about it.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh. And of course days later he remembered

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Speaker 1: giving her a ride. But you know, we'll find out

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Speaker 1: about that. He actually had a house on Highway nine

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Speaker 1: about two and a half three miles short of Woodford Hollow,

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Speaker 1: so that's where as far as he went. He dropped

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Speaker 1: her off and she had it back down the highway

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Speaker 1: south and maybe you got a ride with somebody else,

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Speaker 1: who knows, But she did make it to the trail. Uh. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There were four guys who were leaving the trail at

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Speaker 1: the time that Paula showed up, and she asked, just asks,

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Speaker 1: you know, was this the way to the Long Trail?

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Speaker 1: And they said, yeah, the pointed the way, and so uh,

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Speaker 1: the last saw of her, she was walking across the

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Speaker 1: footbridge that led to the trail and that was it.

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Speaker 1: And of course several days later they remembered her. And

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Speaker 1: I should also mention that Paul was not outfitted for

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Speaker 1: a major hike. She was wearing a coat that I

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Speaker 1: think had a hood and kind of a kind of

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Speaker 1: a furry winter jacket. Yeah, not a real heavy duty thing,

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Speaker 1: um all said, on jeans and tennis shoes. Again not

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Speaker 1: really great snows. Did she even have water? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I don't know. I mean you would

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Speaker 1: think she would have taken some water with her. You

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Speaker 1: would think that would make sense. Yeah, And she had

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Speaker 1: no gear. It's not even water, no food, no extra clothes,

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Speaker 1: no camping gear, nothing. I don't think she had a

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Speaker 1: flashlight either. And you know, it gets dark at that

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Speaker 1: time of the year, that far north right gets dark

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Speaker 1: kind of early. And she didn't apparently take too much

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Speaker 1: money with her either, And she definitely left some behind

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Speaker 1: at the school, like an uncashed check from her parents,

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Speaker 1: for example. And you know, you guys, we've seen lots

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Speaker 1: of these cases where people run off to start new lives,

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Speaker 1: nearly bank accounts and all kinds of stuff behind, because

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Speaker 1: that's what I would do. Y yeah, absolutely. Uh. There

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Speaker 1: was one more adding Apollo that I know about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of sightings of Paula, but they

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Speaker 1: were rather conjectural. It was all in the paper and

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Speaker 1: people saw, oh I saw somebody look kind of like her,

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Speaker 1: similar to the Indiana Dunes or the Grime Sisters even

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, so there were lots of sidies. This

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Speaker 1: one looks pretty confirmed, though. There there was a couple

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Speaker 1: whose names elude me um. I think their names are

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Speaker 1: lost to the ages. The several people in this case

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Speaker 1: whose names are kind of lost to the ages. It's

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Speaker 1: a pretty common name, yeah, but they lost the ages.

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Speaker 1: It's a nice name actually. But they were about it,

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Speaker 1: maybe a hundred or so yards behind her and following her,

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Speaker 1: and they said she went around a bend in the trail,

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Speaker 1: and then when they rounded the bend of a minute

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Speaker 1: to later, she was gone. Yeah, I don't know how.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in Oregon, it would be pretty easy to, like, say,

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Speaker 1: if you had to use the bathroom, it's pretty easy

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Speaker 1: to just hop off the trail and go a little

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Speaker 1: ways and your trail gets totally lost, and you would

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Speaker 1: be totally lost. But I don't have a sing, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I've never to the Long Trail, so I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I have a friend who just hiked the

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Speaker 1: entire Appalachian Trail, and it looks like there are parts

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Speaker 1: where it would be pretty easy to do something similar

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Speaker 1: to that. But if there were snow on the ground,

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Speaker 1: one would assume that they would have seen her tracks

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Speaker 1: going off somewhere. So, you know, my first my first

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Speaker 1: thought on something like that is she had she had

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Speaker 1: to go pee. That's child possible. Yeah, And as far

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Speaker 1: as I know, it's snowed later on. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it was a night or the next day, but

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Speaker 1: as as of that time, there was no sky. But

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Speaker 1: it's also a deciduous forest, which means that is their

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Speaker 1: leaves all over the ground, So that is going, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's not a trail more than yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

358
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Speaker 1: but it would be more open, so it would be

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Speaker 1: easier to see her if she were Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't great all the time. I did too, Um,

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Speaker 1: but I kind of think that you guys are you know,

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Speaker 1: like really distracting from the alien subducted or kind of

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, sorry, now just kidding. They also reported the

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Speaker 1: bright light yeah gey stuff, the memory loss. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Paula didn't come home that night, obviously, and next next day,

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Speaker 1: on Monday, December two, she uh, her roommate noticed she

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Speaker 1: was gone. And also, by the way, she didn't show

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Speaker 1: up for classes. So back in those days, colleges were

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Speaker 1: a little more a little more strict about that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. Some colleges, Yeah, yeah, and so yeah and

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Speaker 1: so yeah, so they know she wasn't there and hermy

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Speaker 1: said she didn't come home, and the alarm goes up

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Speaker 1: and h and her parents are notified, um, and the

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Speaker 1: police are called. And of course nobody knew at this

375
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Speaker 1: point that Paula had gone to the Long Trail, So

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Speaker 1: at first they were searching the college campus in the

377
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Speaker 1: surrounding areas. But then after the news hit the papers,

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Speaker 1: Lewis Napp remember him, the guy that gave her a

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Speaker 1: ride out most of the way, Yeah, he remembered her,

380
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Speaker 1: and so he came over to police with his story

381
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Speaker 1: and told them, Hey, I gave her a ride to

382
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Speaker 1: Hghway nine and she was really interested in hiking the

383
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Speaker 1: Long Trail, so uh and also what's his name? The

384
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Speaker 1: four the four guys that were her on the way

385
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Speaker 1: on their way out, one of them actually worked at

386
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Speaker 1: the local benage in paper and so he went to

387
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Speaker 1: a reporter and told the reporter about that and what

388
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Speaker 1: he had seen, so, you know. And then so obviously

389
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Speaker 1: she had had last been seen in a long trail,

390
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Speaker 1: so everybody can everybody assumes she's out there lost or

391
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 1: maybe dead. But at this point, again, she hasn't. She

392
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Speaker 1: hasn't been gone that long, and so there was still

393
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: some hope of finding her alive. And so the shirt

394
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: the search shifted to the long trail, and they searched

395
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 1: not only the trail but to swap the woods on

396
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Speaker 1: the other side of it. Uh, and a lot of people,

397
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they canceled classes at the college, so so

398
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: everybody at the college could turn out and help with

399
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 1: the search, and like police and National Guard and everybody

400
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: you can think of. I mean, hundreds of people were

401
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 1: searching for her. And actually, so there were so many

402
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Speaker 1: people searching for her, I was kind of surprised none

403
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Speaker 1: of the searchers got lost themselves. True. Well, if they

404
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 1: you said they were carrying confetti, did you say that yet? Yeah? Yeah,

405
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 1: but soon But they were, I mean they were they were,

406
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: you know, hustle and grattling it. So you know, it's

407
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 1: pretty easy to track your way back if you've got

408
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Speaker 1: something like that. That's unless you get like, you know,

409
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Speaker 1: somebody like Chupy going after you picking up your confetti. Well,

410
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Speaker 1: the good thing about confetti is it's hard to get

411
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Speaker 1: all of the pieces. There's a lot a little that's

412
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Speaker 1: why you would do confetti. Maybe confetti makes sense actually,

413
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's one of the ways they kept him

414
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Speaker 1: going over the same ground again and again, dropping confetti.

415
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 1: Whenever you search the place, he drops, drop a little

416
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Speaker 1: confetti and just keep going. And also reports were coming

417
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Speaker 1: in from other places. This was hitting the papers. I

418
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Speaker 1: think it made the national news even and there were

419
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 1: reports from somebody as far away as Massachusetts. The waitress

420
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: claimed to have served her in a diner. Yeah, Massachusetts,

421
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Speaker 1: isn't that It's not, no, it's not. It's not usually

422
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 1: far away, especially if she actually went pretty far away though, well,

423
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 1: I mean, if she accidentally went the wrong way on

424
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: the trail, you mean, yeah, she walks south and staid

425
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 1: in the Yeah, but the people who said they saw

426
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: her going on the trail and followed her on the trail.

427
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: We're going in the northerly direction. Yeah, but she could

428
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 1: have walked north originally and then overshot. Yeah, like just

429
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: walked for an hour or whatever and then walked back

430
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: and totally missed where she should have popped off and

431
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: then just you know, stumbles out of the forest a

432
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: day later in Massachusetts. And it's just at this first,

433
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: but you would think the waitress would say she looked horrible, yeah,

434
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: and really needed help and realized that she needed help, so,

435
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: you know, because she couldn't pay for the slice of pie, right. Yeah.

436
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: And apparently well apparently she was with the guy too,

437
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: of course. Yeah, and she was running off, you know. Yeah,

438
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. It could be that guy was an alien, yeah,

439
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 1: or that could be too. It was the bald world

440
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: world for Dora. But I've been watching fringely. I was

441
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 1: going to say, you must be watching, yeah, exactly. Um,

442
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: And there was one report of a suspicious character, a

443
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: guy whose name I could never find. Either of you

444
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: able to find this guy's name, And yeah, I was.

445
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: He was lost to the ages, one of those I

446
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: swear that I saw it in one place, but when

447
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: I went looking back through with what I read, I

448
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: couldn't find it again. Yeah, everywhere. I even found a

449
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: fairly authoritative newspaper article from the local Bennington newspaper that

450
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 1: was like one of those look back on the years

451
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 1: later and everything like that. And even that one didn't

452
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,479
Speaker 1: have a name for the guy. You would think of anybody,

453
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: they would have had the name, right, You would think

454
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: anything at the time. But I think oftentimes when they

455
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: do those retrospectives they scrub names out. Maybe they do.

456
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: Maybe they figure it's no sense, you know, expuring that

457
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: stuff up or something. I don't know. Maybe his family

458
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: owned the paper by that time. I don't know, But

459
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: this guy was a lumberjack apparently, at least I've in

460
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: one place, and he lived kind of near the trail

461
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: that Paula walked down the long trail and reportedly said

462
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: to friends or acquaintances that he saw her walk by

463
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: the trail. He'd been having an argument with his girlfriend.

464
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: He storms off angry, and then he said he had

465
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: he went home. That's one version, or he got in

466
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: his truck and followed her. His own accounts have buried,

467
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: of course, of course. Yeah, and he also supposedly told

468
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: a few people that he knew where Paula was buried,

469
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: but of course, later on a question my police, he

470
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: said that was just idle talk. So I don't know. Okay, So,

471
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: I mean we're friends and you're oftentimes pretty creepy, but like, yeah,

472
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: but I mean, like I can't imagine anybody having that

473
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: kind of sense of humor. They would be like, you

474
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to make a joke about knowing

475
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: where this missing girl is buried. It's behavior, it's super

476
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: weirdo behavior. It's a little weird of But then again,

477
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you never you don't really know the context.

478
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it could have been threatened more than anything,

479
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: but you didn't have a clue what happened to her anything.

480
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: But he's threatening somebody and saying, hey, by the way,

481
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: I know where she's buried. I could murder you. So

482
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm really uh So this makes me think of another case.

483
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: We've got a college age girl who disappears and it's

484
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: a the Northeast, and the news media makes all kinds

485
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: of hubbub about it, Like I really think that this

486
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: should have been covered by a sensationalist writer that we

487
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: know of. Like it's shocking to me that this hasn't

488
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: happened too early, too early? Sorry, Yeah, not not yet. Yeah,

489
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: he's going to run out of stuff to talk about,

490
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: and then it's gonna be off to this one and

491
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: it might be related, who knows. The police couldn't put

492
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: anything on our lumberjacks, so that never went anywhere. And

493
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: that's it. Paula's missing. Still wait, there was another one.

494
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: A year before Paula disappeared. Somebody else disappeared too, in

495
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: the same area, fairly close by. Yeah. Uh, this is

496
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: also out in the woods, not on a bus. Uh.

497
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: But it's still a little strange that this guy's name

498
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: was Middy Rivers I assume the time. Yeah, he was

499
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: a hunting fishing guide, uh, seventy four years old. But

500
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: apparently he knew the local woods very very well, so

501
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: he wasn't the kind of guy to just wander out

502
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: there and get lost. And if he had gotten lost,

503
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: he would have known how to care of himself. I mean,

504
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, he was seventy four in the forties, right, Yeah,

505
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: pretty damn old. Continue. But what happened to him was

506
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: on November twelve, Middy was guiding a group of four

507
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: hunters in the hills near Bennington. Uh. And they were

508
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: heading back to their camp after what I sen was

509
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: an unproductive day because I have heard nobody mentioned transporting

510
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 1: a deer carcass back to their camp with them triumph. Yeah. Uh,

511
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: and Midea got out in front of the group and

512
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: apparently out of their sight, and then they never saw

513
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: him again. The four hunters eventually got back to camp,

514
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: Middy was not there, you know, made them all scratch

515
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: the heads just a little bit, and he has never

516
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,239
Speaker 1: been heard from again. Well there's the whole shell casing thing.

517
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, there was a there was a huge

518
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: search of the woods where he disappeared, but no trace

519
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: was ever found except for a cartridge from his rifle

520
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: that was found next to a stream. And I don't

521
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: I don't know what stream that was, and I'm not

522
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: even a hund percent sure that it was even the

523
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: cartridge from his rifle. That's what I can never understand

524
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,719
Speaker 1: was how they pinned on his rifle. Yeah, I mean

525
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: also just realistically, if he was hunting and fishing in

526
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: that area for a long time, what's to say that

527
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: wasn't from three days before? Ye? True, that too, you know,

528
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's some cartridges that are just very very

529
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: popular and so and his might have been one of them.

530
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: So it's hard to say that was his even but

531
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: it was just like Paula, there was not a shred

532
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: of torn clothing or a shoe or anything that they

533
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: didn't find his rifle. And that's that's what's strange about

534
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: these disappearances. We've talked about a lot of disappearing people, uh,

535
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: and it seems like usually they find some little tiny

536
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: tracer or another, like an article of clothing, or maybe

537
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: a year two goes by and they find like, you know,

538
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: they find a bunch of their clothes, or they find

539
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: a little backpack or a purse, or they find something.

540
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Nothing ever turned up at all, particularly when we're talking

541
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: about those ones where we kind of say, okay, well

542
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: could be a serial killer, but probably it was a bear.

543
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: You know, they wandered off and you know some predator

544
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: got them, and then you know, the clothes because they

545
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: they're not going to eat the clothes because no, well

546
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: sometimes the devil bear. Yeah okay, yeah, So I mean

547
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: that's always so fascinating and frustrating to me when literally

548
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: nothing shows up, absolutely not a clue. Ah. But yeah,

549
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: so those three so far. So we talked about MIDI, PAULA,

550
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: and James Tedford. So that's the first three. And then uh,

551
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: year after James Tedford vanished, a couple of other people

552
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: disappeared too. Uh. There was Paul Jepson. And I've seen

553
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: this as Jeffson as a J E. P. H. S O. N. Yeah,

554
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: and I've yeah, I'm gonna go with Jepson because I

555
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: saw an article in a local paper that had his

556
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: and his dad's name in there, and it was Jepson

557
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: in there, although not that the newspapers anyway, But anyway,

558
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: we'll go with Jepson. He was ag eight. He was

559
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: from Shaftsbury, Vermont, which is about six months north of

560
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: Bennington on Highway seven A, which, of course you know,

561
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: meant that what's his name, James Tedford cruised right by there. Yeah,

562
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: I know who. Coincidence, Paul Paul Jeffson disappeared October twelfth,

563
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty and all these people disappeared in that sounded

564
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: kind of a narrow little window there between October twelfth

565
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: and December one. They also supposedly all disappeared within an

566
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: hour window during the day, somewhere between three and four o'clock.

567
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: I always see this sometimes, and it was always between

568
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: three and four o'clock they disappear. Yeah, that's when the

569
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: oos are out. Yeah, the accounts that I've heard of

570
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: this one I read that he disappeared from the family

571
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: farm in Shaftesbury. And then another account that I read

572
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: his mother left him in the family track while she

573
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: went off to feed some hogs, which doesn't totally make sense,

574
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: but whatever. Well, actually I think I can explain that. Yeah,

575
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: so his family. One of the things his family did

576
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: is they took care of a local dump. And if

577
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: you think about the time in the area, the local

578
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: dump was somebody that had extra space that happened to

579
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: have a big hole in it that everybody could throw

580
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: their garbage into. And garbage tends to have food in it,

581
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: so you can have pigs, and the pigs will feed

582
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: off of the trash. But she still got to give

583
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: them some real food. You know, they can't they can't

584
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: subsist on what they find in I mean, it's not

585
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: like hefty bags were around at the time, but they

586
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: can't subsist on everything they're finding in the trash. That

587
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: they've got to give them some real food. So that

588
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: I think is why you that's why I think it's two,

589
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: because people read pigs and believe it's got to be

590
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: a farm, and then people read the thing about being

591
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: in the truck and you'll see it, Well, they were

592
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: at the dump, and I think that's they're actually one

593
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: in the same. Yeah, well, yeah, I know that makes

594
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: sense totally, the part of it didn't. I mean, even

595
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: if they had just gone off to say, say, somebody

596
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: was on vacation, she had to go go buy their

597
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: farm real quick and feed the hogs. And accounts that

598
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: I've read about this it took her like a hour

599
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: to do this, which seems like kind of a long

600
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: time to go feed the hogs. How many hogs there are?

601
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: It could be that, or it could it could just

602
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: be that that was inaccurate and she was only gone

603
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 1: for fifteen minutes. Yeah, as say enough for a kid

604
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: to disappear. I've I've had to take your livestock, and

605
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta do the water, and you're gotta

606
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: do the feed, and you gotta clean out stalls and

607
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: that can take some time. Well that's true, yeah, But

608
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: also I mean he was eight, right, but he's old

609
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: enough to help with some of that stuff. That's why

610
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. You. So, if it is this long endeavor

611
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: where you are like mucking out pins and stuff like that,

612
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: why would you not just have your eight year old

613
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: son do the mucking while you're doing all the rest

614
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: of the stuff. For like true, of course, there is

615
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: also the fact that what do eight year old boys

616
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: love to do? Jump in puddles of stuff and when

617
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: it's pig excrement, that stuff stinks to high heaven and

618
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: doesn't wash out. Tell the kid not to do that,

619
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because boys listen. Well, I think eight is

620
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: older than you think it is, but we can go

621
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah. But anyway, so it's not out either way,

622
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: Family Farm Org. It's not outrageous. But whatever happened, Uh,

623
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: he either wanted off or maybe somebody snatched him right

624
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: out of the truck. We don't really know what. The

625
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: police brought in bloodhounds. They were able to track him

626
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: for a while, but the trail apparently ended at the

627
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: edge of a highway and that was that. Uh. There were,

628
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: as always, some reported sightings of Paul, but nothing consistent.

629
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: Nothing ever panned out. There was one that I read

630
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: about it, one of the papers or some woman spotted

631
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: a boy just like him, but from the description his

632
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: father said, as Paul Jepson's father said, he didn't believe

633
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: it was his son. And did you mention that he's

634
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: apparently was wearing a very distinctive red shirt at the time,

635
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: or a red shirt or a red jacket, much like um,

636
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: what's her name? Yeah, Paula, Paula. Thank you? Yet it

637
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: exactly and you know it's an easy target color. No,

638
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it is. It's great when he's looking for

639
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: a body. Okay. So, and then one last disappearance, which

640
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: was only two weeks later, that's October, Max and freed

641
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: to Langer, North Adams, Massachusetts, were camping in the Mount

642
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: Pisca area with Frieda's cousin, Herbert Elsner. But first, before

643
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: I go any further, I want to say this is

644
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: the one that I think doesn't really fit with the

645
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: other ones, even though it's always it always seems to

646
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: be included when you read about the Bennington Triangle. This

647
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: take place in the Mount Pisca area, as I said,

648
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: And that's a long way from Bennington, that's all. That's

649
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: way north, fairly close to the Kanakastani border and and

650
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: so I'm not it's kind of outside the triangle, and

651
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a perfectly shaped triangle. The

652
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: boundaries of this triangle can change. Okay, okay, well that

653
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: was much like the Bermuda triangle. Yeah, they just keep

654
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger. Yeah, it morphs to absorb whatever

655
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: story you would like it to encompass. Okay, all right,

656
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: well that guy's cool. It's part of the triangle that

657
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: won't include it. Yeah, okay, So Frieda Langer was fifty

658
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: three or husband Max was eight. Max had a bad need,

659
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: so in Frieda and Herbert decided that they wanted to

660
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: take a hike. Max decided to stay behind the camp

661
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: because of that bad name, and so Frieda and Herbert

662
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: headed out. But a little way from camp, Frieda slipped

663
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: while crossing a creek. And I don't know whether they

664
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: were just hopping rock to rock or walking across the log.

665
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: Whatever happened, she fell in and got wet, and so

666
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: she decided taking to run back to camp. So she

667
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: told Herbert to just continue on that she was going

668
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: to run back and change. Yeah, it's late October, of course,

669
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: it's chili out and uh, she was just gonna run back,

670
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: changing and something dry. Uh. In one account that I

671
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: actually said she was taking a shortcut. And this is

672
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: a you know, a little note to our listeners. Many

673
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: a great adventure starts with the words, hey, let's take

674
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: a shortcut. I know a shorter way, I know a

675
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: good way. Yeah. Yeah, But whatever happened, I don't know.

676
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: She left Herbert at about three pm. Herbert eventually she

677
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: never saw her again. She never rejoined him. He came

678
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: back to camp about four or forty five, but Frieda

679
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: wasn't there. Uh. And according to her husband Max, she

680
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: had never she had never returned from the hike, and

681
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: so well, you know, puzzled all around, and they called

682
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: the police and another huge search is conducted. No trace

683
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: of Frieda was ever found, which makes it kind of

684
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: similar to our other disappearances. Which is why I see

685
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: that some people because it's so pinky. I mean that

686
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: she just disappears. But here's the guy that knows her.

687
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 1: Here's camp right back here, and she just vanished hike

688
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: apart at the most and she just zip just just vanished,

689
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: yeah pooh like that then leaves no trace. But there's

690
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: also just similar in one big way, and and that

691
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: is that Frieda's body was found about six months after

692
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: she disappeared. She's the only one. She's the only one act.

693
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: And was she in good shape? No, she was not.

694
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: She she had just decomposed enough that they couldn't tell

695
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: how she had been killed or she died by natural causes.

696
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it was natural causes. So because the

697
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: body was found in a spot that had been searched

698
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: when they were searching for her originally. Yeah, so it

699
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: looks like somebody came back and dumped the body there

700
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: after the you know, after the search was done. We've

701
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: got four of five bodies or people who were never

702
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: seen again. Yeah. Now, I mean I'm sure that you

703
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: came across this, Joe. I know that is what I

704
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: want to say. Canonical Is that the right term? The

705
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: central core? They can in the central There are other

706
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, murders and disappearance. Yeah, there's I've seen upwards

707
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: of twelve different ones that are attributed to this particular triangle. Yeah,

708
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: like there was that one, that one that was very recent,

709
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: like two thousand and eleven, that kid with the weird

710
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: name Marble, what's his Marble? Something, there's there's marble, but

711
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 1: there was a hunter in the thirties who quote unquote

712
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: disappeared out of sight of his party, and that was

713
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: found under a tree shot days later. Like there's there's

714
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: a whole series of these kinds of weird occurrences in

715
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: this whole areas. So it really depends on which version,

716
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: in which assemblage of articles you read. Yeah, I know,

717
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: I read another one that I didn't include it with

718
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: this one because there's absolutely nothing out there about it

719
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: except a group of three hunters vanished I believe in

720
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, but that's it. That's that's the only

721
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: thing there is about it. So who knows if that's

722
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: anything related to truth or not. I mean, uh so

723
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: I didn't include that one. But yeah, apparently a lot

724
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: of people disappeared, you're mysterious, were murdered or whatever. But

725
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: these are, like I said, the five tried and true,

726
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: absolutely for sure. So we think ones fo, we go

727
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: to theories. Let's take a quick break. The walls are wire,

728
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: the foundation is stone. It really shouldn't be that hard

729
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: to secure. Yet despite all this, he gets in week

730
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: after week and terrorizes all the ladies. Woken up from

731
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: their slumber, they scream and run blindly into the dark,

732
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: hoping against hope that they will be spared. Sadly, one

733
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 1: of the won't make it, and her blood will stay

734
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: in the coupe floor. Though your house is much more sturdy,

735
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: it needs protection just as much. You don't have to

736
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,759
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737
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,279
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738
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,360
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739
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,920
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740
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,200
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741
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,640
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742
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,840
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743
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,360
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744
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745
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746
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,359
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747
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,200
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748
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749
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,560
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750
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,000
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751
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,400
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752
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,160
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753
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: dot com slash him and all, because well you weren't

754
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: a chicken. The threat of the fox is all too real,

755
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: and we are back. Hey, well, I hope that was

756
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: refreshing for you guys. Was we went? We went? Had at? Yeah,

757
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: those jew boxes are pretty pretty good. Huh, all right,

758
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: where were here? Oh? Aliens? Alien induction. Now, I know,

759
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: as a noted ufologist, I know Devin wanted to weigh

760
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: out on the alien thing. It was obviously aliens, you

761
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: think so, Yeah, I mean even the most recent one

762
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: of h what's her name? His name? Her name? Oh

763
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: frieda frieda Yeah, I mean obviously the aliens just abducted

764
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: her and did their tests and then dropped her in

765
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: the exact same spot. Never mind they accidentally got you know,

766
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: the days wrong. They just teleported her back and close enough,

767
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: close enough for government work. Man, I don't know. I

768
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: mean they've come hundreds of thousands of light years. I

769
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: mean really, what is Yeah, well, to them, that's you know,

770
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: like a millimeter if they're giants. No, no for distance,

771
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: I mean like whatever, it's kind it's easy. I mean

772
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: you who can who can be trusted to know exactly?

773
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: Sometimes you park your car and then you think you're

774
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: exactly where you parked your car, but you're actually like

775
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: five blocks off. True, you dropped the pin in like

776
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: a little bit of the wrong place in the map.

777
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: They might have fingers, I don't. I mean, it's the

778
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: only I'm not going to argue this too hard because

779
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: I like being a newphologist. There's no like real evidence here.

780
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: There's no sightings that correspond with any of these things. Yeah,

781
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: none of that. But I will say that it would

782
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: nicely round out these disappearances. I mean, most of these

783
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: people disp heard with literal literally hide nor hair of them, right,

784
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just gone like poof, And what else

785
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: can do that other than weird magician guys are serial killers.

786
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: But I'm getting ahead of myself or you know, made

787
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: up histories. But I think, I mean, I think the

788
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: aliens theory is not a bad one overall with this one.

789
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: I mean, again, it is troubling broad daylight, right, you

790
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: don't that's not really usually when the aliens come to

791
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: abduct people and then the lack of any kind of

792
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: sightings or strange noises or anything like that. But overall

793
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 1: the next one might explain that though, yeah, I don't

794
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: think still though, I mean, we're talking, especially with Frieda again, right,

795
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, fifteen minutes walk, you'd hear Bigfoot.

796
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: Either of those guys would have heard big Everybody here's Bigfoot.

797
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: They just can't get his picture, that's the trick. Oh okay,

798
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: they would have said. And there was a loud rustling

799
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: and weird grunting noises unless he was having a quiet day.

800
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 1: And I really, well, not even I think that he

801
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: does that. That's sort of noise making things, kind of

802
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: the way a rattler wants to scare away. And and

803
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: you're probably right, yeah, but I also big Foot is

804
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 1: a gentle giant he's carrying not. According to the story

805
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: that comes out from I think it was the late

806
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds in this area, Supposedly there was a carriage that,

807
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: you know, team of horses is drawn upon and it's

808
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: a terrible storm and they stop and the guys trying

809
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: to see ahead, and he hears something outside and the

810
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: horses are freaking out. All the people get out of

811
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: the carriage, at which point something comes out of the

812
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: woods and you know, beats against the side of the carriage,

813
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: eventually knocking it over and scaring the holy hell out

814
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: of the horses. Like it was eight foot tall with glow.

815
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: I think it had glowing red eyes. That you're wrong

816
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: on that that was moth man. No, Bigfoot doesn't have

817
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: glowing eyes. But the point is eight foot tall and

818
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: hairy and angry. Does sound like Bigfoot? Bigfoot is never angry.

819
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: Bears are angry often. Listen. I've met a lot of

820
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: bears and they are generally not angry men, but some

821
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: of them have very big feet. True, all right, there

822
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: you go. Um, but there there are local legends there.

823
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: It's very similar to our sasquatch lessons legends here in

824
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: the Northwest of a big foot like creature. Uh. And

825
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: so that's among the Indians, local Indians And um, so

826
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: what do you guys think about big Foot? Is the theory? No?

827
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: I like aliens way more than for this. I'm sorry.

828
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: I like Bigfoot. I love you, but I think aliens

829
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: more exactly. That's sure, you feel better, don't your big Foot? No,

830
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot. Where are we at next? Next?

831
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: Sary legendary rocks? This is according to local Indians, and

832
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: I forget what these things were called by the Indians.

833
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: I've seen the name, but it's unpronounceable. Um. But these apparently,

834
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: if you step on these rocks, they can just open

835
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: up and swallow you up. I've seen those. Yeah, it

836
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: sounds like something out of Stargate. Oh really, And I

837
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: haven't watched it about Stargate, so I don't know. But yeah, okay,

838
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: so that's a possibility of that. You know, there's some

839
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: of these, some of these Indian legends you kind of

840
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: wonder sometimes they're pulling they're pulling the white man's leg

841
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: just a little bit. Yeah. So here's the problem with

842
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: the whole Indian legend thing that didn't show up until

843
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: the very early eighties, that there was the whole because

844
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: the Indian legend is not only the rocks. There's the

845
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: Indian legend that the local indigenous people wouldn't go into

846
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: those mountains because for fear of the things were there,

847
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 1: and they would only bury their dead there, and YadA yadya.

848
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: That only came about in the eighties. But there is

849
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: act at least some information that people say might be

850
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: truthful in terms of the local people's didn't like going there,

851
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: and that is because apparently the way it's oriented and

852
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: with the weather patterns that are there, storms move in

853
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: and it gets really crappy, really fast, and so it's

854
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: really easy to get disoriented because you say, you're thinking, well,

855
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: the wind is always going to blow from the east,

856
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: except there's some weird weather patterns where it changes that,

857
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: and it can screw people's sense of navigation. Well, I

858
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: mean more than that might be real, though, but the

859
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: whole rock thing is not just gonna say more than

860
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: just the wind patterns. I mean, the wind can be

861
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: blowing consistently from one side, but the way that the

862
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: forest looks in a storm versus when you've been walking there,

863
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's easy enough to get disoriented if

864
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: you aren't What if you aren't doing that thing you

865
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: gotta do when you're hiking where everyone's a while, you

866
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: look back to make sure you know what it looks

867
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: like on the other way, you're not doing that. It's

868
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: all right, super easy to get disoriented if it's kind

869
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: of sunny and then ten minutes later it's pouring down

870
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: rain and wind blowing and you turn around. It's like

871
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: the easiest thing in the entire world to lose any trail.

872
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: That's why. Yeah, I was just take a five mile

873
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: long rope with me. Yeah, I know you do. I've

874
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: seen you hyper It's really awkward. It's super weird. That's

875
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: a lot lighter towards the end of the hike, well

876
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: heavier as you go back, because God help you. If

877
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: you don't coil it up as you go home, then

878
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: you got this big knot at the end of the trail.

879
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: That's disgusting to try to entangle that thing. Yeah. Well.

880
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: The other thing about the Indians though, is there they're

881
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: much like the rest of us, is they want they

882
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: want a good pay day. And I'm not sure how

883
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: good the game was around there, but I assume that

884
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: might have been part of it too. If the hunting

885
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: is not good, then screw it, why should go there? Yeah,

886
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: that's another good reason. Or alternately, if the hunting is

887
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: really good, why would you let anybody? Why wouldn't you

888
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: just like try to scare people away at a good

889
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: point too? Yeah? Okay, but anyway, Yeah, I don't think

890
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: the Indians were aulally terrified of that. Another possibility is

891
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: that all five of these people were killed by a

892
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: serial killer Boom boom, which I actually I think it's

893
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: possible at least some of them were. It does seem

894
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 1: to me like quite possible there was a serial killer

895
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: at work here. This eyebrow was raised. I'm waiting for

896
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: you to to to justify this to me. Yeah, well,

897
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: people that advantage like that. I mean the middle ones, Middy,

898
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: or I should say, the early ones, Middi, Paul, Paula,

899
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: and James are similar enough. I can see them being

900
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,479
Speaker 1: done by a single killer. But in the case of Middy,

901
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: remember he was the first one, the hunter guy who disappeared.

902
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't totally rule out a hunting accident because I mean,

903
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 1: when you think about it, it would be a huge

904
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: act of daring do for a serial killer even to

905
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: nab this guy. And it was he's this guy who

906
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 1: was armed with a rifle himself, and he's being followed

907
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: by four other guys with guns to just nab that

908
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: guy at hall him away and kill him. That's pretty um,

909
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: that's pretty ballsy. You gotta let me be honest. It's

910
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: it's almost it's almost almost Hannibal Lecter territory. That that's

911
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: the whole idea that this guy was just barely out

912
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: of sight of these four other guys and he just vanishes.

913
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: I find it really hard to believe a serial killer

914
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: did that. I found it a lot. I would agree

915
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: with that that there was probably a little accident and

916
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: they decided to hide the body, which is one possibility.

917
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: But but the other three. My my problem with this

918
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: whole serial killer thing, and we we talked about this recently,

919
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: is you know, the serial killers tend to have a

920
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 1: pattern and an m O. But these your your three core,

921
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: These three people right there are four people are vastly different.

922
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: We've got an eight year old boy, eighteen year old girl,

923
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: a fifty three year old woman, and uh, Tedford was

924
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: Tedford wasn't even in the area. But let's just bring

925
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 1: him in the mix. He's a fifty something year old man.

926
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: It was, Yeah, he was in the area. He was

927
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: He wasn't on the trailers first, he was not on

928
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: the trail right there, and he wasn't on the ground physically.

929
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: He was supposedly still in the bus. But my point

930
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: is they're all very different. I'm willing to go there

931
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: with the people who disappeared in the forest be a

932
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: cme of opportunity. I mean three or four even because

933
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: we got a hunting guy on the trail, the teenage girls.

934
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: We got a woman who slipped and fell on the trail. Yeah,

935
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: but no, she wasn't on the same trail. Well he

936
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: was far away, that's right, she wasn't on that actual trail.

937
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: And then kid a little boy on the road on

938
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: the road. I mean, yeah, the victims are different, but

939
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: the m O is not different. It's not ame of

940
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: opportunities getting That's That's what I'm thinking to you. Just

941
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, just crazy person wandering the forest and kidnapping people.

942
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: I don't think he was wandering the forest. I mean

943
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: what these um also, yeah, Paul the eight year old,

944
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: as we know, he they followed his scent to the

945
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: highway or a highway. So okay, we gotta road. And

946
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: actually we have proximity to road for all these people,

947
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: I mean not the first one, not minie, and and

948
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: not fraid that with the middle three. There is proximity

949
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: there with two roads. Um. So Paul Jeffson wanders off,

950
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: let's say, from the family truck, gets a little board.

951
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: Forget that he's been told to stay at the truck,

952
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: so he just mos He's off, gets a little lost,

953
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: winds up at the highway, or he's picked up by

954
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: a kindly helpful stranger who turned out to be a

955
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 1: psycho killer. Uh and but and which I find more

956
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: believable than him getting wandering off and getting lost in

957
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: the woods and dying of disposure, because as we said before,

958
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: he was wearing a bright red jacket or as some

959
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: reports have said, a bright red shirt and should have

960
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: been easy enough to spot the body. Of course, there's

961
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: another possibility with Paul, which was that he didn't disappear

962
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: at all. It was just parental abuse or negligence or negligence.

963
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: And also I was about to say, thank you, is

964
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: that if if his parents do some thing negligence was

965
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: the word you used, and I'm going to continue with

966
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: that word, or or if he got out and got

967
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: I mean, pigs are mean. Pigs will knock somebody over

968
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: and bite them while they're like, I don't know if

969
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 1: you've ever been bit by a pig, but the freaking hurts,

970
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: and they got sharp little teeth and they can tear

971
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: through things quite quickly. So it's entirely possible that they

972
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:33,439
Speaker 1: went ah hell in an hour called the cops they'll

973
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: be done with him by then. But that does present

974
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: a problem in that bloodhound dogs were able to track him.

975
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: So there's a problem with that too though, because the

976
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: problem is he disappeared in the afternoon, you know this

977
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: three to four o' clock window. The dogs were brought

978
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: in the next day. It rained heavily during the night,

979
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,879
Speaker 1: so those dogs didn't have a whole lot of scent

980
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: to go on for him. So it's very possible that

981
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: they picked up a wrong said and followed that to

982
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: the road. Well, I guess it's also possible that he

983
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: ran to the road, realized he was at the road,

984
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: ran back, went mom, got knocked over by some pigs,

985
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: I got eaten something like that. Yeah, possible. But there's

986
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: a huge issue with the dogs because of the fact

987
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: that there was such heavy rains. Well, I mean, I

988
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: guess that was my first thought. Honestly, when we started

989
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: talking about Paul and there were pigs involved, I just

990
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: generally think like, wow, the pigs, Yeah anything, people have

991
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: fed people to the pigs. It has happened in real life.

992
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: But you know, I think that pig for the pig. Yeah,

993
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: I was still rape Paul is as a good possibility

994
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: of you know, since he was in a pickup truck,

995
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: that means he was on a road or right next

996
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: to a road. Well, if they're at the dump, there's

997
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: people that are coming to the dump. Yeah, but I

998
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: see where you're goinging. I mean all three, there are

999
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: at least three people who could have definitely just happened

1000
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: to be on the side of the road and in

1001
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: need of help and a quote unquote kindly Yeah. Personally, yeah,

1002
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: I mean, particularly when we're talking about was a Patricia, right,

1003
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she walks back, she she hitched there,

1004
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: she's got a hitch back, gets in the wrong car

1005
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: and oops. Yeah, I don't Yeah, I think that that

1006
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: was what it was. Because the trailer she was on,

1007
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: it was in a valley and she really couldn't wander

1008
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,959
Speaker 1: far off the trail either direction. There was a creek

1009
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: right next to it on one side, and on both

1010
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: sides it was very rough, large rocks, windfalls and brush

1011
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: and everything like that, and then steep, steep valley walls,

1012
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: not not a lot of places to get lost. It

1013
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: would have found her body if she'd been lost. But

1014
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 1: but if she decides to do the same thing as

1015
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: Frieda and take a shortcut. I know there were some

1016
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: switchbacks here, and I can just cut across and then

1017
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: follows it too far down. She could very easily get

1018
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: way off of that trail, because you're right, it is

1019
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: valleys and and uh and decent. I mean, the photography

1020
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: isn't very nice in that area. I was looking at

1021
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 1: the contour maps. But the point is is that if

1022
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,399
Speaker 1: you foolishly decide to hell with it, I'm gonna get

1023
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: in the I'm going to get in the seam of

1024
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: these two hills and I'm going to follow it down

1025
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: and it's gonna take me to something. You can go

1026
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: a long way before you actually get to something, and

1027
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 1: that is a hard hike. It would be hard, especially

1028
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: in the dark. Yeah, or and with you know tennis shoes,

1029
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 1: we with the the lisanfrun cream Chris taste. I mean

1030
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: that that seemed like a likely possibility, right that they thought, oh,

1031
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: we'll just follow this canyon down and oops, no, that's

1032
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: not That turned out to be their downfall. I mean,

1033
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: I think it happens, certainly, but it can happen. That

1034
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: about it is you would think you would find something, well, yeah,

1035
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: there is that you think you'd find something but also

1036
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: I read this blog or this guy who lives in

1037
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: the area went up and retraced your trail on that

1038
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: on long trail, and that's what he said. He said, like,

1039
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 1: you really aren't going to get far off the trail.

1040
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: I mean you could if you really wanted to. But

1041
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: he says it's so rough. There's so many big rocks

1042
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: and and windfalls to have to climb over and everything.

1043
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: He says, it going was so rough that he just

1044
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: thought it was really inconceivable that somebody could actually think

1045
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: it would be easier to take a shortcut here to there. Well,

1046
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: it's hard to get I guess no, No, I mean

1047
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: essentially that's that was kind of his point. It's like

1048
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: it was such rough going, I mean, nobody would go

1049
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 1: more than about ten before realizing that this is just

1050
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: not going to pay off. Well, I almost wonder if

1051
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: if she had no idea of how the trail went right,

1052
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,959
Speaker 1: and she might have thought, oh, it kind of goes

1053
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: parallel to the road, and she's she gets an hour in,

1054
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: Say she gets a couple of hours in and realizes,

1055
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: I don't have any water, I'm getting dehydrated, have any food,

1056
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: I'm freezing. I wasn't ready for this, and in her

1057
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: mind she thinks and you know again it's it's one person.

1058
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: Because she thinks the road it's just over that little thing,

1059
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 1: you know. She starts to climb up that thing, and

1060
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: in her mind she's got to get there any minute.

1061
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: It wouldn't. I mean, you know, she would think it's

1062
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,439
Speaker 1: this is definitely easier going than walking an hour back.

1063
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: There's no way I can get an hour back. I'm

1064
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: so tired. And she's climbing and thinking, you know, oh

1065
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: my gosh, the road's right there, and you know is wrong,

1066
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: and you know, either decides I'll lay down and take

1067
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: a nap here or just hide for shelter. But let

1068
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 1: me throw this in there. They had like five planes

1069
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: also as part of this search, and there was there

1070
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: was like a lot of people out there beat the

1071
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 1: bush is looking for her. Oh no, I definitely more

1072
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: believe she got in the car with the serial killer.

1073
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to add a little, but I actually

1074
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,800
Speaker 1: disagree with the guy that you were reading the writings

1075
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: of who was saying nobody would get off of this trail,

1076
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,760
Speaker 1: because I was reading blogs by guys who have hiked

1077
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: that entire trail, and they have for one I can't

1078
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: remember what organization it is that maintains the long trail, yeah,

1079
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: I can't, but but they they tell people to stay

1080
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: off of the trail. I want to say, from octobersh

1081
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: to like March, because it's so wet and it's so bad,

1082
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: and that's one reason. The other reason because it's washes

1083
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: out and it's slick and it's crappy, but it's also muddy.

1084
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: And this guy that I was reading who had hiked

1085
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 1: this trail, he had he'd actually classified it into six

1086
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: types of mud, from the slippery to the soggy to

1087
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: the boot removing type of mud. And you know, and

1088
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: if it's if it's all deciduous leaves and you can't

1089
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: tell what's going on, and you take it and you

1090
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: take a tumble in that, and you keep your walking

1091
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: on what is supposed to be the trail and oh

1092
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: my god, it's it's soggy and it's slick. You know

1093
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: what's easier people have been hiking over this. I'm just

1094
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: gonna get off the trail a little bit and follow

1095
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: that because it won't be as bad because there's not

1096
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: as much foot traffic on it. Like, I can see

1097
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: why somebody would get off of the trail. But the

1098
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: thing about it is is you can't get I mean,

1099
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: the trail is essentially constrained by a mount by valley

1100
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: walls on both sides. I mean you can, you can't.

1101
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: You can get off the trail and walk parallel to it,

1102
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: but you can't just walk up at sixty degrees without

1103
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: coming in. But if you but if you're walking parallel

1104
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: to it, and then you start drifting. So let's say

1105
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: she's on the downhill side of the trail because it

1106
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: seems like it's sugar footing, and then she starts just

1107
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: drifting down the slope a little bit and eventually gets

1108
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:51,959
Speaker 1: herself to a point where she has no idea where

1109
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: the hell the trail is any I have. I have

1110
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: a problem with that, and that is that there were

1111
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: other a lot of other people on the trail, and

1112
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: they mentioned it was really us out, would they though

1113
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: in the nineteen forty well, no, this is I mean,

1114
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: it's clear weather, but the trail is gonna be soggy.

1115
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you look at what is in

1116
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: the news articles, they don't really talk about the conditions.

1117
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: They're all focusing on her because she's a college aged girl,

1118
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 1: and her dad because he is a prominent industrialist, and

1119
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: they don't guess focus on that because the reporting of

1120
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: the time doesn't encompass everything. They just this is what

1121
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: people don't know. Well, I mean, regardless of that, I

1122
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: really think I agree with Joe that you know, if

1123
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: her body had been there would have been found. Yeah,

1124
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:42,439
Speaker 1: I know, you don't seem to agree with No, I don't,

1125
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: but that's fine. Yeah, I just think it's much more

1126
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: lackly she made it out of there because you know,

1127
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: she was not dumb. I mean it's like, you know,

1128
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: it's like I think she would have just stuck with

1129
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: the trail and mose I'm back out and down to

1130
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: the road again. Unless she intentionally wandered away. Maybe she

1131
00:59:58,240 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: just wanted to go off a commit suicide. I mean,

1132
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: there there are people who say that she was having

1133
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: a she was not in good spirits lately, and there's

1134
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: the whole thing about her fight with her dead whatever

1135
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: that might have been, And it might have been some

1136
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: some suicide attempt that it was successful. Maybe she managed

1137
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: to do it and actually conceal herself. Yeah, she burrowed

1138
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: into a nook in the ground. There's caves in that area.

1139
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: She could have gone into a cave for shelter or

1140
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: intentionally to to die, and you know, nobody ever found

1141
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: her in that cave until you know, long after she's

1142
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: decomposed and the animals have scattered around and nobody notices it. Um, hey,

1143
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: wait a second, So I know this is probably my fault,

1144
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: but I got us way off a track and off

1145
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: trail we're looking at in front of us. So we're

1146
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: still on serial killer or because I feel like I

1147
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: drug us away from that, well maybe threw us into

1148
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: the We're sort of going back and forth between. We

1149
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: can't agree that they are necessarily meant the same fate,

1150
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: but we're talking. We're kind of on serial killer versus

1151
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: getting lost in the woods. I'm voting for she made

1152
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: it back to the Apollo made it back to the road.

1153
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: That's Highway nine hits the ride with a friendly stranger

1154
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: who was psycho and killed her. That's what I think happened.

1155
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: I think she met Bob, could have meant Bobs name

1156
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: cat Bobcat. Zerios does have bobcats, Yeah, and bobcats are

1157
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,919
Speaker 1: a little Have you ever been scratched by a cat. Yeah,

1158
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: I'm just saying multiplay that by the size, like the area,

1159
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: they were considered a environment or a nuisance in the area.

1160
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: And while they used to be hunted for um what,

1161
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: I can't remember the reward because they would you know

1162
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: certain stat Yes, that's it, but there was there was that,

1163
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: and there are bear in the area. There's actually I

1164
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: guess bobcats aren't the only cat, but there are big

1165
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,959
Speaker 1: cats in there. Yeah, we're talking about cougars or whatever.

1166
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: I'll accept to a bob cat. Okay, so if you

1167
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:03,919
Speaker 1: say care though, if we say that kind of cat,

1168
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible. Let's just pretend for a second that

1169
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: she didn't get taken by a person, but she did

1170
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: get taken by a cat. A lot of times those

1171
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: cats dragged their prey up into a truggers sugars do Yeah,

1172
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,479
Speaker 1: which would you know? That would explain why nobody found

1173
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 1: her body on the ground. I was going to say,

1174
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: I just have to prove a point. Bobcats and max

1175
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: out at about twenty five pounds. But they're mean, but

1176
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: they're little, but they're mean but still anyway, so yeah,

1177
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: I mean, in case you're little and your mean that's

1178
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: true because I'm close to Hell. Oh yeah, So with Paul,

1179
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about a little bit more about well

1180
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: as far as there the mysterious disappearance you talked about

1181
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: that she might have nipped away to go pee. Remember

1182
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: she noticed she was being followed back up with the people.

1183
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: She wasn't sure who they were, what their attentions were.

1184
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: She a, yeah, you know, I could see that, or

1185
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: just didn't want human company. But I'm still thinking that.

1186
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: I think Paula made it back to the road. I agree,

1187
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: And she met a friendly but helpful and helpful stranger

1188
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: who offered to give her a ride. Yeah that's Bob uh.

1189
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: And then there's James Tedford. So that the three here

1190
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: that says Paul, Paula and James. Um. The thing that

1191
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: they haven't common for me is their proximity to a road.

1192
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: He was on a road on a bush. He was

1193
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: seen on the bus and remember that I think the

1194
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,919
Speaker 1: relevant clue. Here's the bus schedule that they found laying

1195
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: on the seat next to him that was open. Yeah,

1196
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking that James was sitting there in the

1197
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: bus station in Manchester, uh and probably had one of

1198
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: those momentary realized, Hey, you know, I probably need to

1199
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom before we hit the road again.

1200
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: So you know, what do you do? He wants to

1201
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: know how much time he's got, so he pulls out

1202
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: the bus schedule and says, hey, I've got ten minutes

1203
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: for the bus leaves Manchester. So off he goes, and meantime,

1204
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: maybe his watches off, or maybe sometimes things in the

1205
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: bathroom just take a little longer to take that. Well,

1206
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: I mean alternately he thought, oh, I have time to

1207
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: go grab a piece of pie from that dine over there.

1208
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: It took a little longer, yeah, than anticipated. Well, and

1209
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: the thing is he because the buses had been so

1210
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: delayed by the snowstorm that was going on at the

1211
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,439
Speaker 1: time he had There's accounts that somebody that knew him

1212
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 1: ran into him at one of the bus stops and

1213
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: chatted with him. So, I mean, it wasn't as if

1214
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: he was just hiding on the bus the entire time.

1215
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 1: But you would get off, I mean, you get off

1216
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: and stretch your legs. But I have huge problems with

1217
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: the Tedford story. Yeah, well that not everything was has

1218
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: been consistently reported. Well, the yeah, the problem is is

1219
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: that he was on this bus. We think, you know,

1220
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: around the first of December, but the Old Soul is

1221
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: it the old Soldier's home. Yeah, that's where he was at, right,

1222
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: that's where he was staying. They called. They called his

1223
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: family a week later to say, hey, so, like, is

1224
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: he really coming back or what because we're holding his bed,

1225
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: at which point then his family turns around and calls

1226
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: the cops, and the cops then tracked down the bus

1227
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: driver and the people that are on the bus of

1228
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: week after that. Literally there's full two weeks of time

1229
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 1: between the actual incident and when the cops talk to him.

1230
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: So these people like, oh yeah, I remember looking over

1231
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: and totally seen him sleeping on the bus with the

1232
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: schedule next to him. Oh yeah, it was weird that

1233
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 1: I noticed he wasn't there, And it's made out to

1234
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: be as if minutes between these events it's you know,

1235
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: there's problems with that one, but well there's problems with it,

1236
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: but still and and so, and that's why I don't

1237
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: I don't see this one in terms of him vanishing

1238
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: just like that, like by magic off the moving bus. Yeah,

1239
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 1: you know, I never bought that to begin with that,

1240
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: he never spared off the yellow bus. Now, I figured

1241
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: he got off the magic school bus. He had the

1242
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: magic but but you know, so I figured he got

1243
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: off the bus. Nonetheless, he did disappear. There ain't no

1244
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: disputing that. And it could have been that he just

1245
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: ran away. It could have been and which is possible.

1246
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: Or it could be that he got off the bus

1247
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: and history with a friendly, helpful stranger turned out to

1248
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: be a psycho killer. Or he could have just become,

1249
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, part of the moving, massive homeless people that

1250
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: that shuffle around in those areas. I mean, he doesn't

1251
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: have anything to really go back to at the Old

1252
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 1: Soldiers Home other than he's paid for I'm assuming he

1253
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 1: paid for unless the Feds were paying for the Old

1254
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: Soldiers So I don't know how those work, but let's

1255
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: just say that he's not paying for anything. He's like,

1256
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: you know what, That place really blows and I really

1257
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: hate listening to Bob tell war stories all day long.

1258
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: Screw it, I'm gonna hang out here. And then it's December.

1259
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,920
Speaker 1: There's a giant freaking snowstorm. He gets kicked out of

1260
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: the bus station, and he dies in an alley of

1261
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: exposure with no idea on him. Because somebody rolls his

1262
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: body over and steals his wallet, we would never know

1263
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: because the emmy is going to have nothing to identify

1264
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: him with. Like, there's very simple ways, especially with Tedford. Yeah, no,

1265
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 1: there are, I mean there are there are other ways.

1266
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: But again, somebody local freezes to death, and and meantime

1267
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: Tedford has disappeared, somebody's gonna make at least a little

1268
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: bit of an effort to connect those thoughts. I would think,

1269
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: I don't know that that's the case, because the cops

1270
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: are going and hunting down these people that are now

1271
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: far Afield and maybe the local man let's just say

1272
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: it was Manchester. Is that who you were saying? If

1273
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: it was the local Manchester p D may not have

1274
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: been the ones that were investigating. Yeah, well, I mean

1275
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: they might not have, but you would think there's some

1276
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: sort of register of local missing people. I don't know.

1277
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 1: In the fifties is sometimes it feels like they played

1278
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: things a little more fast and loose, whereas today everything

1279
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: is just you know, fill in the forms. It's all

1280
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 1: the data we can. We always pull it in access

1281
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: that we know exactly what's going on, generally speaking, and

1282
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,959
Speaker 1: I guess it's not a perfect system. But I don't

1283
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: feel like that's the case in you know, typewriters and

1284
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 1: rolodex days. No, I mean, it definitely was all manual.

1285
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: I mean you couldn't have computer cross matching or anything.

1286
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: But again, people were, people were reading the local papers,

1287
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 1: people would have seen his pictures and and so it's

1288
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 1: it'sn't theoretically, but it's theoretically possible that what you're saying,

1289
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: it's you. I find it actually a little easier to

1290
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: believe that he got off the bus at some point

1291
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: and was and was nabbed by a serial killer. But

1292
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, marginally, but I admit that what you're talking

1293
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 1: about is also possible. I mean, Sarah, killers are actually

1294
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 1: sometimes easier to believe, you know. I'm mostly just say, yeah,

1295
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: he got off the bus at Manchester and walking, missed

1296
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: the bus and I don't know what happened, and then

1297
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: just caught another bus to somewhere else and started over,

1298
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: started working and named himself Benjamin Kyle and got on

1299
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: with it entirely. That's entirely possible, right there. No, it

1300
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: is poss well, I mean, it's it's an interesting little story,

1301
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: and certainly maybe he was murdered but there's other possibilities. Um,

1302
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,679
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean and and so it's really hard

1303
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: to say with all these if they're related at all.

1304
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: I think they might be. It's entirely possible that there

1305
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: was there's a serial killer doing something. What about Frieda though, Okay,

1306
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 1: so I didn't talk about Freedo. No, we haven't talked,

1307
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: because we've talked about Paul and Paula and Paul and

1308
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: Paula and James and and well so we you yeah,

1309
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: because earlier you said you thought it was probably a

1310
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: hunting access So what about Frieda because she's the only one,

1311
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: so she's the last one. Well, and Freeda is the

1312
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 1: one that I say is I don't you know, so

1313
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: far away from the whole Bennington area, you can't really

1314
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: say she's part of the triangle anyway. But that's another

1315
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 1: one that's kind of like Middy and that, and that

1316
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: it would have taken a very very very skilled and

1317
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 1: hannibal elector type of serial killer to naver in the

1318
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: woods just for one thing to just be lucky enough

1319
01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 1: to be happening to be right there. Once she had

1320
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: hustling by, to go back to the camp to change

1321
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 1: your clothes, and and then nab her and Carter off

1322
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: to god knows where and do his thing and murder

1323
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,440
Speaker 1: her and everything. That's why I think there's other possibilities

1324
01:10:10,479 --> 01:10:12,680
Speaker 1: she could have gotten lost. I don't think so. And

1325
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: the reason I say that is because how they found

1326
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: your body. I think most likely she went back to camp.

1327
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 1: She and her husband argued the husband killed her accidentally

1328
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 1: or not hit the body, and then you know, later

1329
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: on when it was more opportunity time in the search

1330
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: had died, anyone back and retreated the body and dumped

1331
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: it somewhere else. Hit it where that inter sleeping bag

1332
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: because those are so easy to roll up, and you

1333
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: would never tell that it was lumpy and full of

1334
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: human That's true. No, really, I actually I'm being a jerk.

1335
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: But she she makes a really good point of how

1336
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,919
Speaker 1: do you hide the body and then have that massive

1337
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: people come looking? Well, here's the deal. If you hide

1338
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: the body like ten or twenty ft from the camp sign,

1339
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna look there. Are you sure? I'm sure? If

1340
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: they say, hey, i'm gonna look, I'm gonna look right

1341
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 1: over here behind this stuff, can just say I just

1342
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 1: want to pe behind that stump. I know, for sure

1343
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,559
Speaker 1: she's not there. So Steve, when Joe finally murders me, yeah,

1344
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: make sure to do a really thorough search wherever the

1345
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 1: last place. Just be like, hey, Joe, where were you

1346
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: last And he'll be like, oh, behind that stump, and

1347
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: you'll be like, great, that's definitely where Evan's body is.

1348
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it, I know. But that's that's just

1349
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 1: a possibility. I mean, obviously maybe a murder, maybe the

1350
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 1: husband did it. I don't know, Uh, I don't. I

1351
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 1: don't see her getting lost though, really because she had

1352
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: all kinds of people out there beating the brush looking

1353
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: for her. But if she took the shortcut and I actually,

1354
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: so this is the other thing. I know I said

1355
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 1: this before with Paula, But she's also going to be

1356
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 1: in an area that is a deciduous forest, which is

1357
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: known for I mean, for the love of God, the

1358
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 1: Northeast is known for their fall and the number of

1359
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: leaves that change color and then hit the ground. And

1360
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure I know Davin has I don't know if

1361
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 1: you have, Joe, but I've walked through those fours when

1362
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: it's nothing but leaves, and depending on where you're at,

1363
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, it can be six inches or more of

1364
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: leaf litter, and also can happen seemingly over a night. Yes,

1365
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it can be like, well, there's

1366
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 1: no way I mean it was. It wasn't it was

1367
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: twenty four hours ago. There's no way that this leaf

1368
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 1: cover is. I don't need to poke it because there's

1369
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: no way there's a body under there. But I mean

1370
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: it could have had all of those trees could have

1371
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 1: just lost their leaves in the last twenty four hours.

1372
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: So like in the case of Paula, it's entirely possible

1373
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 1: that let's say there's I'm gonna use a log, there's

1374
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: a log on the ground, and she curls up next

1375
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,680
Speaker 1: to it as a wind break and dies of exposure,

1376
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 1: and then the trees above her all the side to

1377
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: let go of their leaves at one time, and she

1378
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: is completely covered and it is just a log shaped

1379
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: hump in the ground. And somebody goes, oh, well, it's

1380
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 1: just a log, okay, and they keep they don't searched

1381
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: the entire length of it. Well, that's that's one reason.

1382
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:05,600
Speaker 1: That's the one reason too that I'm not that enthusiastic

1383
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: about lumping this in with the rest of the Bennington

1384
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 1: disappearances anyway, because it's it's far Paula, though not freed

1385
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 1: oh paul I was talking about for Paula. Paula. Paula

1386
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: disappeared December one. I mean Arnold leaves down by that

1387
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: time in New England. Wouldn't free to disappear, free to

1388
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: disappear October? Okay, So yeah, okay, I'm getting them back.

1389
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 1: I apologize. I think I agree. I mean, I think

1390
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 1: Frieda shouldn't be lumped in anyway. Her body was found

1391
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 1: and she could possibly have wandered off. I mean, that's

1392
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 1: the only thing about it is I think she was murdered.

1393
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: Well I think probably too, because here's the deal. Is that,

1394
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:48,719
Speaker 1: so she falls into the creek, she tells her cousin

1395
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: to go ahead and continue at the trail. She's just

1396
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 1: gonna dash back, change close, come back and meet him. Therefore,

1397
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 1: they could not have been very far from camp at all.

1398
01:13:57,360 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 1: I want to know why the hell her cousin didn't

1399
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: just walk back with her or just wait or just

1400
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: yeah or just wait. Yeah. It is a little weird.

1401
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: But the thing about it is is they had to

1402
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: have been close enough that if she had gotten lost,

1403
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,719
Speaker 1: or fallen and broken her ankle or whatever. She should

1404
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 1: have been within hearing. Just she should have been, because otherwise,

1405
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 1: how could she possibly hope to go all the way back,

1406
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:19,679
Speaker 1: change your clothes, come all the way back and catch

1407
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 1: up with him unless they were really close. Maybe she

1408
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:24,720
Speaker 1: went to town for a beer run. Yeah, maybe she

1409
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 1: just decided if she was going to disappear and start

1410
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 1: a new life and call herself Bernie Sanders. Yeah, that

1411
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,879
Speaker 1: could have been twice. Bernie Sanders is in this episode

1412
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: two different people. Yeah, she was fifty three at the time.

1413
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: That would make her about the right agg given that

1414
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is exactly Okay then of the series. No,

1415
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I it's hard. It's very hard to say,

1416
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 1: but there there does seem like there were a bit

1417
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: more than the average disappearances in this little area. Uh

1418
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: that but doesn't necessarily made a supervene a triangular and time. Yeah,

1419
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is just there's a really

1420
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: hard trail right there. Yeah, the trail the serial killer.

1421
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 1: That'll count for some of it. It's interesting that it

1422
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 1: all stopped in nine Okay, So I mean, I I

1423
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: really think that the only theory that loops all of

1424
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: these together neatly in a nice little bow is aliens,

1425
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 1: that's true. I say it's the state of Vermont is

1426
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: the only thing that connects these people, and that's it.

1427
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 1: I think Bigfoot and I like Vermont, but I'm blaming

1428
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: Vermont because they all happen to live there. Damn. Actually,

1429
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 1: you know what, before we get too far the you

1430
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 1: know who we have there was one of the things

1431
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: for Middy rivers. So you do know that there's a

1432
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: whole there's a number of ghost towns in that area, right,

1433
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 1: I've heard this. The lumber industry kind of went away, right, Well,

1434
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 1: it was the lumber industry that they're making charcoal. So

1435
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: there is the there is a theory out there that

1436
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:58,560
Speaker 1: there were old wells and that Middy, MIDDI and or

1437
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: maybe one or two of the other people accidentally stumbled

1438
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: across an old well and they're actually in the bottom

1439
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 1: of that and not in the bottom of a well

1440
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 1: with a man who says it puts the lotion on

1441
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: its skin. He's too old for that, so that doesn't

1442
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: really know. Yeah, I know that one for the lotion

1443
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 1: you mean yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, good point. No, Yeah,

1444
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 1: there's always there's always the old well thing. Although you

1445
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 1: think that Timmy in the well, oh yeah, but you

1446
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: think that if there was that much of that going on,

1447
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: there would be more disappearances. Although maybe people got smarter

1448
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: about avoiding wells. You know, I don't know. They're just

1449
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:44,600
Speaker 1: full of bodies now anymore and padded fall in. But

1450
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 1: it's like a clump, crunch and climb back out and

1451
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:55,679
Speaker 1: question ever happen? Yeah, it's rather gross. Okay, yeah, well, okay,

1452
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 1: a little housekeeping here, hey, yeah, well, first off, you're

1453
01:16:59,640 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 1: probably wanting to know how you can get a hold

1454
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 1: of us, And of course we have an email, this

1455
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:07,760
Speaker 1: thing called email, and our email address is Thinking Sideways

1456
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. And of course we have

1457
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:15,440
Speaker 1: a website that is amazingly enough called Thinking Sideways podcast

1458
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:19,720
Speaker 1: dot com where you can actually download episodes that you

1459
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 1: can listen and all that stuff. Comments are off. But

1460
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 1: also we have a link to like uh merch and

1461
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: stuff like that. In by T shirts, I'm wearing a

1462
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 1: T shirt right now, Oh my gosh, you are, well

1463
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 1: not just any old T shirt, that Thinking Sideways T shirt. Yeah. Um,

1464
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:39,120
Speaker 1: And there's a mugs and stickers and all kinds of

1465
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 1: fun stuff like that. You will also find us on iTunes,

1466
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:45,719
Speaker 1: where you can download us. You can subscribe, which is awesome.

1467
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: You can rate us, give us a review, preferably a

1468
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 1: really good review. Uh, and where else you can stream

1469
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 1: us all kinds of places like Google Play and everywhere else. Well,

1470
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: you've probably heard of the stinkcoed social media. So we

1471
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:01,000
Speaker 1: are on Facebook, where we have a group and a page.

1472
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,680
Speaker 1: So join the group, like the page or was it

1473
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 1: like the group and join the page? I can't remember. Okay,

1474
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:09,760
Speaker 1: that's good. We're on Twitter, where we are thinking sideways

1475
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: and where you can see a picture of Joe in

1476
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:15,800
Speaker 1: his shirt. Oh yeah, and we have a subreddit thinking sideways.

1477
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: Oh god, what else that's going on? That's about it.

1478
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: I think cool. Alright, Well in okay, thank for me

1479
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 1: to mosey on down the trail. I'm going back to

1480
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 1: Blue Ben. Good for you. I'm going to ask the

1481
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:27,040
Speaker 1: bears what they think.