1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: The first lesson of trauma is that it always leaves 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: a mark, even if you can't see it. If you've 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: ever asked yourself, why do I react like this? Why 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: does this sadness feel deeper than it should? Why do 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: I carry a pain I can't explain? Then this episode 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: is for you. Seventy percent of adults in the US 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: have experienced at least one traumatic event in their lives. 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: But trauma isn't always loud. Sometimes it looks like overachieving people, pleasing, 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: or even emotional shutdown. Sixty one percent of patients with 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: first episode depression and fifty one percent with recurring depression 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: reported childhood or recent trauma. But here's the good news. 12 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: You can literally rewire your body's relationship to the trauma 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: it carries. So today we go deeper to understand what 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: trauma really is, how it hides, and what it takes 15 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: to finally heal. You're going to hear from Dr Gable 16 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: Matte on the emotional cost of hiding who you are, 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: John Legend on grieving without closure, Oprah Winfrey and Dr 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: Perry on the power of rethinking trauma, and Anita on 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: inherited wounds and generational fear. Here's the lesson. You're not broken. 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: You're carrying something that was never meant to be yours 21 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: to begin with. Let's get into it. 22 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast. 23 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: Jay Sidi, Ja Shendy, Dr. Gable Matte delivers a powerful truth. 24 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: When you hide who you really are to survive your childhood, 25 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: that survival can turn into lifelong trauma. That suppression can 26 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: show up later as anxiety, chronic or disconnection in your relationships. 27 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: For example, nearly eighty percent of autoimmune patients report a 28 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: significant emotional stressor before on set. Studies show that burying 29 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: our emotions early on can increase our chances of developing 30 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: depression or addictive behaviors in adulthood. The good news is 31 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: that suppression doesn't have to be permanent. Healing isn't about 32 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: changing who you are. It's about coming back to the 33 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: parts of yourself you had to leave behind. 34 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: I often say to people, you're going to have pain 35 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 3: one way or the other. Yes, which pain would you like? 36 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 3: Because sometimes in life there's no pain for your options 37 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 3: mm hm. You can have the pain of suppressing yourself 38 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 3: for the sake of being accepted, or you can have 39 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 3: the pain sometimes of being yourself and not being accepted. 40 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: You can have pain one way or the other. Now 41 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: I have my own bias that the pain of not 42 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: being ourselves Ultimately it's about far the greater and the 43 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: more chronic pain, and that the pain, the short term 44 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 3: pain of being ourselves brings liberation and genuine independence, which 45 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 3: means I can have genuinely independent the relationships with other 46 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 3: people who are willing to accept me as independent. You know, 47 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 3: But in the short term, which pain do you want? 48 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 3: There's no pain for you options. 49 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, that you reminded me of this beautiful 50 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: idea that Tikna Han shares, that there's familiar pain and 51 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: unfamiliar pain, and these are our two choices and the challenges. 52 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: We're so scared of unfamiliar pain that we would rather 53 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: choose familiar pain and go through the same pain because 54 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: we know how it's going to feel exactly, and we 55 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: think or at least I'm aware, at least I am 56 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: conscious of how bad it can get. But hearing you 57 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: speak being independent or being dependent both as pain. Yeah, 58 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: but the pain of dependence far out weighs the pain 59 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: of independence. 60 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 3: Well, just put a bit of a nuance in there. Ultimately, 61 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I mean technadon also talk about inter being. 62 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: How we all in there are so in a certain sense, 63 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: we do depend on each other, you know, and that's okay. 64 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 3: The question is to be dependent in each other authentically 65 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: or inauthentically. The fact that I'm independent doesn't mean that 66 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 3: I'm not going to reach out for help or that 67 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 3: I won't offer it, But it does mean that I 68 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: will be honest with you, and I won't pretend to 69 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 3: be somebody else that I'm not so that you'll accept me. 70 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 2: You know. 71 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: So there's anything interesting word difference between two phrases that 72 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 3: sound very familiar. One it's called individualism, and they're it's 73 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: called individual suation, not rugged individualisms. I don't need anybody 74 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 3: and you know, me against the world, and this is 75 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 3: the North American capitalist ideal. You know, well, human beings 76 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 3: never would have evolved had we been those rugged individualists. 77 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 3: The rugged individuals wouldn't last more than one generation. But 78 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: individuated means that we can be ourselves, truly ourselves in 79 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 3: genuine relationship with others, not rugged individualists. I mean, the 80 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: most boring people are rugged individualists because they all look 81 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: the same, you know. So you can be individuated and 82 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: be truly yourself and still belong and still vulnerably desire 83 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 3: human contact. 84 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I can agree more. I think there's 85 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 1: a lot of retro around. We don't care what anyone 86 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: else thinks and it doesn't matter, and you just do 87 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: your own thing. And it's almost that's almost a bitter 88 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: response as well, because we do have to care what 89 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: people think. If we lived in a world where you 90 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: didn't care what anyone thought, yeah, it wouldn't be that 91 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: healthy because we would do all sorts of obscene, horrific things. 92 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: I treace it differently. 93 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. Yeah, I'm intrigued. 94 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't care what anybody thinks, but I do 95 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 3: care what I do and how it affects other people, 96 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: you know. So there's another spiritual teacher, Gunner Rotana. He 97 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 3: wrote a book called Mindfulness and Plain English, which I've 98 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: just been working through recently, and he's talking about a 99 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 3: higher morality that comes from being true to yourself as 100 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: any touch and he says, well, you don't need rules anymore, 101 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: because it's like Saint Augustine said, love and do it 102 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 3: you're will. So if you actually love the world, you 103 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: don't have to give yourself rules because that love will 104 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 3: dictate how you like towards other people. I can't worry 105 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 3: about what other people think. Look, if I worry about 106 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 3: other people think, I would not have written any of 107 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: my books, because each of my books challenged the reading orthodoxy, 108 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: insane medicine, you know, or whether it's or under tention, devastated, 109 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: or stress and disease or addictions and mayfi. I'm I 110 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 3: write a book, I'm saying something that I'm not saying 111 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: that I invented it, but that I've come to understand 112 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: and fervently believe and want to communicate. But I can't 113 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 3: worry about what other people think, or when I make 114 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 3: a political statement. I'm responsible for what I say, how 115 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: I say it, but not what other people think about it. 116 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean that I ignore other people's experience. 117 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 3: So as long as my intention is purely to speak 118 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 3: a truth, and I do so with integrity, I can't 119 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: worry about what other people think. I can't, but that 120 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: doesn't mean I'm going to go around just doing terrible things. 121 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 3: I don't care what you think as long as I'm 122 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: convinced that what I do. If I've done that kind 123 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 3: of inventory, and I haven't always, but if I do 124 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,559 Speaker 3: an inventory, but well, what is my intention here? 125 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: Is there a hierarchy of pain or hierarchy of trauma? 126 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 3: What do you mean bierarchy? 127 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: I feel like people feel like, well, this trauma is 128 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: worse than this trauma, and this trauma is better than 129 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: this one. We often hear about that as a conversation. 130 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: Is that accurate? 131 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: So one could say so because if you look at 132 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: a child who says sexually abused, as opposed to a 133 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: child whose parents just can't honor and accept and validate 134 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: their emotions, well, my god, you're talking about two different 135 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 3: set of experiences, so that there's certainly horrific things happen 136 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 3: to some people to wound them, and other people suffer 137 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: wounds in a very different way. But the question is 138 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 3: is it useful to make that distinction. It's one thing 139 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 3: to recognize it. But let's say let's say you're my 140 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 3: four year old. You come to me and you say 141 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 3: that I'm afraid of so and so, and I say, 142 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: snap out of it. Only cards are afraid and to 143 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 3: get out of here and take care of yourself. And 144 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 3: then you went to your mom and I said, I 145 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 3: tried to talk to daddy. But you know, would it 146 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: be helpful for your meta to say, well, snap out 147 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 3: of it. Think of all the kids that are being 148 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 3: sexually abused, Think all the starving kids, Think all the 149 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 3: kids that are being bombed. What are you complaining about? 150 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 3: Would that be helpful? So that, it's not a helpful 151 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 3: game to play. I don't compare people's traumas. Trauma simply 152 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: means a wound, and people are wounded in all kinds 153 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 3: of ways. When I try to help people, the least 154 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 3: helpful thing I can do is to tell them that 155 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: somebody else's trauma is much worse than mine, much worse 156 00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 3: than yours. So objectively, yes, practically it's not a helpful distinction. 157 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: People are wounded and you have to tend to the wound, 158 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: whatever it is. You know, if you came to me 159 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 3: with a cut on your arm and he asked me 160 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 3: to stitch it up, it wouldn't be helpful for me 161 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 3: to tell you that, oh, what are you worried about? 162 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,599 Speaker 3: These people with broken irons out there or people with 163 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 3: broken So no, it's not a helpful thing to engage in, 164 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: even though there's truth in it. 165 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, in this next conversation, John Legend opens up about 166 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: the intensely personal loss of losing a child and how 167 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: he and Chrissy didn't avoid the pain but rather walked 168 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: it together. One in four pregnancies ends in miscarriage. I've 169 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: had so many friends and family members over the last 170 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: twelve months tell me about that in their experience. Yet 171 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: the silence around pregnancy loss can be just as painful 172 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: as the loss itself. John's story is a reminder for 173 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: us all grief isn't something that can be solved. It 174 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: just needs to be seen. The point isn't to get 175 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: over it. The point is to get through it without 176 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: losing the love, the honesty, and the connection that makes 177 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: you whole. You mentioned grief, and then the song pieces 178 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: in the new album there's the beautiful lyric let your 179 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: Broken Heart learn to Live in Pieces, and I just, 180 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: I literally just haven't stopped thinking about that because I 181 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: think that there's so much about us that's constantly trying 182 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: to get everything to fit, and even with the heart, 183 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: we're trying to become whole again. Like there's always that concept, 184 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: but you're like, let your broken heart learn to live 185 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: in pieces? Like where did that come? From like that. Well, idea, the. 186 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 4: Idea of the song is that we never completely shed 187 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 4: or forget this trauma that we may go through in life, 188 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 4: this loss, this heartbreak, like we'll remember it. There'll be 189 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 4: times when we'll feel those pangs of memory that it'll 190 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 4: come back. It doesn't mean you can't heal, it doesn't 191 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 4: mean you can't recover, but it does mean that that 192 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 4: grief will will still be. 193 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 2: A part of who you are, a part of your story. 194 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 4: Effectively recovering from that means not forgetting it, not that 195 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 4: it didn't happen, but learning to live with it and 196 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 4: learning to continue to live with it and and experience 197 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 4: life and joy and pain and all the things that 198 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 4: come in life afterwards, continue to like live on despite 199 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 4: the fact that this grief won't ever leave you completely. 200 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost it's almost like we're asking the wrong question, 201 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: where it was like how do I move on? How 202 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: do I get over this? 203 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 4: And you're saying, well, you're saying you're gonna I'm saying 204 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 4: you're gonna carry it. It's part of your life now, 205 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 4: it's part of your story, part of who you are. 206 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 4: Like I said with Chrissy, like I've seen so much 207 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 4: growth through our grief and through our tragedy. 208 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 2: It's always going to be part of who we are. 209 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 4: And I'm fine with that, Like it's part of who 210 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 4: we are, it's we carry it with us and it's okay. 211 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that and I'm sorry for your loss, and 212 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: I you know that. I mean, I don't think there's 213 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: pretty much anything harder to go through. 214 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've never been through anything harder, But it just means, 215 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 4: you know, when you live long enough, you're going to 216 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 4: go through something like that. 217 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 2: And figuring out how to. 218 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 4: Continue to live as you carry that with you is 219 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 4: what the song is really about. 220 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 221 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: And often we find that those traumatic and difficult experiences 222 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: can break people apart, but you focus on growing closer together. 223 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: What do you think is that difference? Like you your 224 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: values are so clear I can tell in this interview, 225 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: like values of children and a family, of love, of kindness, 226 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: of connection. Like how do you in moments like that? 227 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: Is it that your values just drive you forward? Or 228 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: like how do you make sure? Because I think sometimes 229 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: people just have experiences that derail their everything else that's 230 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: going right. 231 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I don't know, because like I think part 232 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 4: of it is just we we were already on a 233 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 4: great foundation where we really respected and loved and enjoyed 234 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 4: being with each other, respect each other's values and the ways, 235 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 4: you know, the things we saw in each other's character 236 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 4: that we fell in love with were still there. But 237 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 4: I think you also have to like commit to working 238 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 4: through pain, you know, And I think we both committed 239 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 4: to doing it, like doing the work that we needed 240 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 4: to do to get through it. 241 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 242 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: No, I'm happy to hear that, and you know, my prayers. 243 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: And thank you. Yeah. Yeah. 244 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 4: And I think having already had two kids together was 245 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 4: definitely helpful because they just bring so much joy into 246 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 4: our lives and laughter and fun, and they're a great 247 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 4: focus for our energy. And so even when you're going 248 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 4: through deep grief on losing pregnancy, you still have these 249 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 4: two beautiful babies that you love, and I think that 250 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 4: was certainly helpful. 251 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: Next, we'll hear Oprah and doctor Perry, who challenge what 252 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: we think trauma should look like. You don't need a 253 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: violent or dramatic event to be traumatized. Neglect, lack of validation, 254 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: or emotional absence can be just as damaging. In fact, 255 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: emotional neglect is one of the most common and overlooked 256 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: forms of trauma. Oprah reframes the question for people exploring 257 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: their own traumatic history from what's wrong with me? To 258 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: what happened to me? That small shift, that one question 259 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: can completely transform how we see ourselves and how we heal. 260 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: What do you think was something that you misunderstood or 261 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: had an incomplete understanding of about trauma that has now 262 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: become more complete or more deep. 263 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 5: Oh, what a great question, Jay I thought trauma prior 264 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 5: to my conversations with Bruce in doing this book, I 265 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 5: thought trauma had to be a big, gigantic thing experience. 266 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 5: You had to go through a tsunami literally, if not literally, 267 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 5: a tsunami, a tsunami like crisis in your life, a fire, 268 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 5: a hurricane, a tragedy, a car accident, a stabbing, somebody died. 269 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 5: And it was through co authoring this book with him 270 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 5: that I understood that it was the consistent little things. 271 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 5: It was the aggressions and micro aggressions in a person's 272 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 5: life that causes them to have their own worldview. Whatever 273 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 5: that worldview is for you is different from me. So 274 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 5: the biggest, the biggest learning for me is that trauma 275 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 5: doesn't have to have a great big old capital t 276 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 5: on it. It's really how you were loved, and that 277 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 5: neglect and trauma are hand in hand because both are 278 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 5: equally as toxic. And so I'd always you know, just 279 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 5: like you with your you know, millions of listeners. I 280 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 5: over the years of interviewing people, it was my greatest classroom. 281 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 5: I was always paying attention to what people were saying 282 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 5: and paying attention to their lives. And what I understood 283 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 5: and could articulate not through science but just through my 284 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 5: own observation, is that, oh, people are as dysfunctional, as unhappy, 285 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 5: as disoriented in their lives based on how far they 286 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 5: are from the center of themselves. And the center is 287 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 5: where wholeness lies, as you know, and so where there 288 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 5: is no where, there is no center, and there is 289 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 5: no sense of wholeness and love for yourself, there's going 290 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 5: to be disarray, chaos, confusion, and you know, dysfunction in 291 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 5: your life. And I saw that over and over and 292 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 5: over again, that people behave based on how they were 293 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 5: loved and then how they were able to process that 294 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 5: in a way to love other people. And so Bruce 295 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 5: just gave me the science for that. What this book 296 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 5: did is gave me the science for it. 297 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: I love that. I think it's a brilliant distinction between 298 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: you know, what we think is trauma and what trauma 299 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: can be for all of us. I have one last 300 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: question I want to ask you before we dive in 301 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: to the conversation with doctor Bruce Perry. It's this idea. 302 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: You've interviewed so many influentials, successful people, and people of 303 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: all different backgrounds and walks of life, and so often 304 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: their success is actually built on their trauma, and so 305 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: their success doesn't often satisfy them. What have you seen 306 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: has been that transition when they go beyond their success, 307 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: they heal their trauma to actually find true success for themselves. 308 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 5: That's deep layered, complex question. So this is what this 309 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 5: is where there's many. 310 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 2: Layers to that. 311 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 5: What I realize is that if you come into success 312 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 5: and fame, in particularly fame, because fame is its own 313 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 5: world and definition, because it really is based upon what 314 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 5: other people think of you. So because fame isn't what 315 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 5: you think of yourself, it's what other people think of you, 316 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 5: if you come into that and you don't have a grounded, 317 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 5: centered self, you will be controlled by the outside instead 318 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 5: of the inside. And if you come into that not 319 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 5: in the fullness of knowing who you are and what 320 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 5: you're supposed to do with that fame. Whenever somebody likes 321 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 5: you or doesn't like you, that determines whether or not 322 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 5: you're having a good day or a bad day, and 323 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 5: you have lost control of your own life. So I 324 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 5: think what fame teaches you quickly is to grow the 325 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 5: wholeness within yourself so that you're not controlled by others 326 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 5: outside opinions of you. 327 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: That is a beautiful answer, and I think you will 328 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: resonate with so many because so many of us are 329 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: on that journey to be successful or be famous, or 330 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: be rich or whatever it may be. But to hear 331 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: it from that perspective is truly refreshing. I want to 332 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: ask you both this first question to start with is 333 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: why is it so important to make this switch from 334 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: us thinking what is wrong with you? To what happened 335 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: to you? 336 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 5: Well, let me answer that because I first came across 337 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 5: this question of what's happened what happened to you? When 338 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 5: I was doing an interview with doctor Prus Perry a 339 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 5: couple of years ago for sixty minute story I was doing. Now, 340 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 5: I've known doctor Perry for over thirty years. I first 341 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 5: started interviewing him in the early nineties, late eighties, early 342 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 5: nineties on the Oprah Show when we were talking about 343 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 5: raising children and how important it is those first zero 344 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 5: to six years. So I've been hearing about what it 345 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 5: means to nurture and support the brain early on. It 346 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 5: wasn't until that conversation a couple of years ago. I 347 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,239 Speaker 5: don't know whether I think it's because of where I 348 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 5: was in my life at the time. I opened a 349 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 5: school in South Africa. I've had these wonderful, brilliant girls 350 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 5: who come from traumatic backgrounds grow up and have really 351 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 5: serious mental health issues. And I was trying to at 352 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 5: the time figure out, what are we doing wrong at 353 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 5: our school? Something's really wrong here. And in that interview 354 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 5: with doctor Perry, he said, you know, most people ask 355 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 5: the question when kids are not behaving the way you 356 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 5: want them to behave of what's wrong with them? We 357 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 5: really should be asking about what's happened to you? And 358 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 5: something went oh in my brain. It was like a 359 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 5: major moment, like I got it in a way that 360 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 5: I hadn't received it before, and I realized that it's 361 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 5: not just for children that you asked that question, But 362 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 5: it's really everybody and that moment, Bruce, as I've said 363 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 5: to you many times, Doctor Perry, change the way I 364 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,239 Speaker 5: saw my relationships, how I saw my own life, how 365 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 5: I interacted with people. And even in politics, where it 366 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 5: was so crazy in the past four years and everybody's 367 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 5: always talking about what's wrong, what's wrong, what's wrong, I 368 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 5: would always say, I wonder what happened to that person. 369 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 5: I wonder what happened to them younger that caused them 370 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 5: to be this way. So all of the labels that 371 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 5: you just gave, Jay, there's a world of labels. There 372 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 5: is you know, overachiever, there's you know, obsessive, compulsive moms, 373 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 5: soccer moms, there is the desire to, you know, please 374 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 5: people all the time. There's a multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple 375 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 5: labels that refer back to what happened to us. And 376 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 5: so I will just say this one of the things 377 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 5: that Bruce says in the book. Each of us comes 378 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 5: into the world with our own worldview, and that worldview 379 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 5: is actually shaped from the crib. And you get from 380 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 5: the world what you project into the world, and you 381 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 5: project into the world what you were raised with and 382 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 5: what you were raised around. So That's why what happened 383 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 5: to you is the essential question. 384 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: So beautifully said. And I wish my brain had a 385 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: ha moments that sound like that outward too, So I 386 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: love that, And doctor Perry, I'd love to hear your thoughts. 387 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 5: Well. 388 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 6: I come at this from a slightly different perspective because 389 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 6: I have a long history of being a history fan 390 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 6: and had studied history growing up, and was very well 391 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 6: aware of the relationship between the things that happened in 392 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 6: the past playing a major role in how things were 393 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 6: functioning currently. And I think that that's I think most 394 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 6: people are able to kind of make that connection. But 395 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 6: as I became a biologist and learned about the development 396 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 6: of the human body and the human brain, it became 397 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 6: clear that we have our own personal history and that 398 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 6: the things that happened in our life shaped the systems 399 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 6: in our brain that influence how we think about things, 400 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 6: how we feel about things, and how we behave And 401 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 6: it really it leads to a completely different approach to 402 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 6: getting to know somebody. You enter the interaction with a 403 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 6: curious mindset. You're curious about, like, what what's going on? 404 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: I mean? 405 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 6: And it really, I think is as Oprah says, it 406 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 6: really opens up this new perspective on understanding a person. 407 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 6: You can be much more empathic with them as opposed 408 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 6: to being so judgmental. 409 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. For me, that reframing that you both have so 410 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: beautifully illuminated in this book is so subtle, but it's 411 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: so powerful because it removes that judgment. It removes that 412 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: negative observation, that criticism, that fear that people feel on 413 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: the receiving end of that as well. To me, just 414 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: that switch of question is is so powerful. And you know, 415 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: when I was diving into the book, there were moments 416 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: where I just I was so grateful to you for 417 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: what you shared. And you know, you open up about 418 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: the story about how your grandmother used to whip you 419 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: over the smallest, most insignificant things like spilling a glass 420 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: of water and this hars right exactly, breaking a plate 421 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: and this harsh, this harsh behavior was normal for you 422 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: as a kid. And you said something in the book 423 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: that really stood out to me. You said that the 424 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: long term impact of being whipped turned you into a 425 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: world class people pleaser for most of your life. I 426 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: want to know how did you become aware of that 427 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:42,479 Speaker 1: connection between that experience as a child and how it 428 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: was being lived today and how did that start to 429 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: help you on your journey? 430 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 5: Well, thank you so much. I'm so moved that you 431 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 5: were touched by that story because I until I was 432 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 5: a full grown adult and I met my best friend 433 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 5: Gail Girls, the first black person I ever met who 434 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 5: wasn't whipped as a child. I mean, she was the 435 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 5: first person I ever encountered. So it is a part 436 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 5: of the black culture to not just spank your children. 437 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 5: Almost everybody you run into of a certain age was 438 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 5: whipped as a child. So that was such the norm 439 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 5: for me that writing about it for the first time 440 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 5: is the first time I actually recognized, oh, this is 441 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 5: not a normal thing. So to really, I was in 442 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:42,479 Speaker 5: a boardroom having to confront someone in my forties, and 443 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 5: I had so much anxiety about the fact that I 444 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 5: was going to have to have this confrontation with somebody, 445 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 5: and it just the most normal disagreements would cause me 446 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 5: a great sense of angst and worry and oh my god, 447 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 5: and what's going to happen? And I just said, what 448 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 5: where is this coming from? Why am I so afraid? 449 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 5: When I am the one in the power seat. I 450 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 5: am Oprah Winfrey running the Harpo Studios. My name spelled backwards. 451 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 5: I'm the person in charge, and in order to have 452 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 5: a disagreement with somebody, I go through so much angst. 453 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 5: And I realized Jay, that even though I had the power, 454 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 5: I still felt that every confrontation I was going to 455 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 5: get a whipping, that a whipping was going to result, 456 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 5: that that thing that used to come up inside me 457 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 5: when I had to walk to get my own switch. 458 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,239 Speaker 5: Oh where is this feeling coming? I'm feeling like in 459 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 5: every confrontation, I'm going to get a whipping, and at 460 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 5: the end of it, that person's going to be mad 461 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 5: at me. And at the end of it, that person's 462 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 5: going to say, you better not act like you're mad. 463 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 5: You know all the things that happened to me as 464 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 5: a kid. So it wasn't until I was a full 465 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 5: grown adult in my own seat of you perceived power, 466 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 5: feeling those feelings of anxiety and anxiousness having to have 467 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 5: the slightest bit of confrontation. So what I say in 468 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 5: what happened to me is that being beaten as a child, 469 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 5: having to be subservient to other people's ideals of what 470 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 5: it means to be a child, meaning you are seen 471 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 5: and not heard. So I've grown up to have this 472 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 5: big personality, but being raised in an environment where children 473 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 5: are seen and not heard and your opinions do not matter. 474 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 5: So what happened to me taught me that my opinions 475 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 5: do not matter. Keep your opinions to yourself, and do 476 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 5: whatever you can to please other people so that other 477 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 5: people will like you, so that other people will not 478 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 5: be upset with you. And I will have to tell 479 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 5: you it is also for me, not for everybody else, 480 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 5: but for me. One of the reasons why I was 481 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 5: so susceptible to sexual abuse because I had been taught 482 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 5: and trained not to speak up for myself, that whatever 483 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 5: somebody wanted to do who was older than me or 484 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 5: in a position of authority, that they had rights that 485 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 5: I did not, So that what happened to me was 486 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 5: ingrained in a way that you know, literally caused me 487 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 5: to be a major people pleaser for a great deal 488 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 5: of my life. 489 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that full journey, and just I 490 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: really gravitate towards that statement you said around how we 491 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: when we normalize something, we don't actually even recognize the 492 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: trauma in it. We don't even realize that there's anything. 493 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: It was just normal to you. You just expected it. 494 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: Did you know that maternal stress during pregnancy can increase 495 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: the child's risk of illness by up to sixty percent. 496 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: In our final conversation, Anita shares how she discovered that 497 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: her fear of losing everything despite all her success, was 498 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: actually inherited from her mother's anxiety and stress during pregnancy. 499 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: With Anita, we see that just because you inherited something, 500 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you have to carry it. Healing is 501 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: about choosing what moves forward with you and what stops 502 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: with you. What were the biggest traumas that have stayed 503 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: with you, that have come up for you that you 504 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: feel you've carried because you obviously grew up in the 505 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: favelas you grew up you know, not in the easiest 506 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: of circumstances. I think you mentioned yourself that you're almost 507 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: treated like trash in Brazilian people in the firstlace, so 508 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: long and so like, tell me about what are the 509 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: traumas you felt you've held onto from your childhood that 510 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: are now coming up that you're healing now. 511 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 7: So there's this one interesting situation in the path of 512 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 7: this healing thing. There was this one thought that was 513 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 7: always coming to my mind. Right, I was here being Anita. 514 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 7: I have three different houses, I have everything I need. Okay, 515 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 7: if I want to retire right now, I can and 516 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 7: I will live comfortably for the rest of my life. 517 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 7: But all of a sudden, I was just here minding 518 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 7: my business, and I thought would come to my mind. 519 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 7: What if I get pregnant and I lose all my 520 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 7: money and I don't have money to survive, and then 521 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 7: I need to work in the street to get food 522 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 7: to my babies and to and I would be like, 523 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 7: why am I thinking this? Why am I doing that? 524 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: Why? 525 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 7: And then I did this session with my shaman and 526 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 7: she said, this is not your thought. You got this 527 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 7: thought the same way we get DNA from our parents, 528 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 7: and like the hair, the eyes, the body, we can 529 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 7: get from thoughts and the energy behaviors and we don't 530 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 7: realize that. So I told her, oh, for real. And 531 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 7: then we did a session to clean this right, to 532 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 7: remove this from me because it's not mine. It comes 533 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 7: from my family. So I did the session and I 534 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 7: talked to my mom. I said, Mom, have you ever 535 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 7: had this thought of like that you were going to 536 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 7: lose everything? We're not going to have money, this and that, 537 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 7: and that was like right before my birthday or thirty 538 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 7: years old birthday. So she said, yeah, when I got 539 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 7: pregnant from you, your dad lost his job and I 540 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 7: felt like we were not going to have money to 541 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 7: feed you guys, and I would need to work in 542 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 7: houses as like a housemaid or something to buy food. 543 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 7: And I was like, wow, that makes total. She spent 544 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 7: the whole pregnancy with this fear of not having the 545 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,239 Speaker 7: money to feed us, so she was fearing it. And 546 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 7: there is like I produced a movie with a friend 547 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 7: of mine called Me, and it talks about this the thoughts, 548 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 7: the negative thoughts that your mom cares and the pregnancy 549 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 7: becomes neuropeptides in your in your brain, so that's why 550 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 7: you have these thoughts. And I was like wow, mom, 551 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 7: And I did the session with the lady and I 552 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 7: got I never had this thought again. And then I 553 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 7: was doing my birthday, who was thirty years old so special, 554 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 7: and I had this place that I wanted to do 555 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 7: in Brazil, and for some reason, every place I was 556 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 7: trying it was not available. I was trying everywhere, Oh 557 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 7: not available because of this not available. Because of that, 558 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 7: I closed one place. No, not available anymore. So there's 559 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 7: just this one place, just this one spot. And I said, okay, 560 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 7: let's go. What can we do. It's the only spot. 561 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 7: Let's let's go. So I sent my dad the invitations 562 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 7: and to my dad, I said, oh, Dad, the party 563 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 7: year is going to be here. He was like, oh 564 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 7: my god, daughter, this address is. And my dad didn't 565 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 7: know about the talk I had. So my mom nothing 566 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 7: right and he's my best friend, but I didn't mention him. 567 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 7: He goes, oh my god, daughter, this address used to 568 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 7: be the company's address that I got fired when your 569 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 7: mom was pregnant. And I was like, I'm dad, wow, Like, 570 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 7: we're here celebrating my thirty years old with a party, 571 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 7: like full of everything that we were always afraid of 572 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 7: not having and the same address. That's crazy, we're in life. 573 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 7: That for me was such an answer from the universe, right, 574 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 7: And I was like, Wow, this is so meaningful and 575 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 7: life is full of these these situations that from me 576 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 7: are not coincidents at all. 577 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's incredible. It is that's really powerful. And 578 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: I love that full circle moment. I agree, and I 579 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: love I mean the movie that you made is that out? 580 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: Where can we watch that me. 581 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 7: The name is me, my friend of mine, the one 582 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 7: introduced me to this shaman. She did it, and then 583 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 7: she called she asked me to help her producing it 584 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 7: and sharing with the platforms and everything. So I was 585 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 7: helping her on this final touch of the movie. And 586 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 7: it talks about this, about how you can get heritage 587 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 7: from your parents, not only in your blood physical, but 588 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 7: also mental and karmas that come from your mom, from 589 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 7: your grandmother, from because it comes from father to daughter, 590 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 7: you know. And it's important to clean it, to work 591 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,919 Speaker 7: on it, because otherwise we're here with no purpose. We're 592 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 7: not we get We spend all this time here and 593 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 7: we don't figure out what's your purpose? What are you 594 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 7: here for? 595 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 2: You know? 596 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 7: And I always had in my life this desire to understand. 597 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 7: And when I was a kid, I was very like 598 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 7: that already. I used to dream a lot of about 599 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 7: a lot of things. My mom tells me that I 600 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 7: used to wake up and see people, and I was 601 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 7: always very connected. I used to tell them everything that 602 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 7: was going to happen in my life, visions everything. I 603 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 7: used to tell them like Oh, I'm gonna sing here, 604 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 7: I'm gonna do this, our house is gonna be like this, 605 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 7: like this. I used to give them details of everything. 606 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 7: And my dad, he was always very stressed with work. 607 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 7: And he tells me that I used to come to 608 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 7: him and say, Dad, don't worry. In the end, everything's 609 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 7: going to be great. You will see you're so smart, 610 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 7: you're so cute, you're so nice. In the end, you 611 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 7: will see you're not gonna worry about any of this. 612 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 7: I'm going to be a singer. I'm going to do 613 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 7: this and that. And it's so fun when he tells 614 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 7: me because I was actually describing so percisily with precisely 615 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 7: what was going to happen. 616 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you've It sounds like you've made so 617 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: much spiritual investment in transforming your mind, your heart, your energy, 618 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: your space. And at the same time you've also made 619 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 1: physical changes, like I was learning that you also were 620 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: on birth control and then you left birth control, and 621 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: I feel like even those types of changes, yes, were 622 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,879 Speaker 1: linked to this kind of internal change that was going on. Right. 623 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: So many of us carry pain we didn't ask for, 624 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: grief that feels unresolved, patterns that don't make sense until 625 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: we look deeper. What these conversations show us is that 626 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: trauma doesn't always look obvious, but it always leaves a mark. 627 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: But here's the good news. The moment you begin to 628 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: understand it, you've already been to heal. The healing begins 629 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: when we stop blaming ourselves and start reframing to understand 630 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: it more deeply. What am I carrying? Where did it 631 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: come from? And what would it look like to let 632 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: it go? Whether through self reflection, therapy, spirituality, or storytelling, 633 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: every step toward awareness is a step toward freedom. Thank 634 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: you so much for watching. I hope you'll subscribe so 635 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: that you never miss a video and continue your dedication 636 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: to feeling happier, healthier, and more healed. I'll see you soon. 637 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with 638 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to 639 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 1: heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past. 640 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 3: Everything in nature goes only where it's vulnerable. So a 641 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 3: tree doesn't go o where it's hard and thick, does it. 642 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 3: It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.