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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, welcome the counterpoints. How you doing, Emily, I'm great.

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Speaker 5: You just got back from a big trip. Might be

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Speaker 5: a little jot ugged.

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Speaker 4: I'm feeling good now.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I was in Doha for some reporting and for a conference.

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Speaker 7: I'd never been to Doha before. Kind of exciting to

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Speaker 7: see that there are some of the roads down by

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Speaker 7: the sea that are basically paved with the marble that

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Speaker 7: we would use for our You know, if you're rich

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Speaker 7: here put in your kitchen. They're paving their roads. Whether

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Speaker 7: they're doing well, doing well in Doha.

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Speaker 3: Another level of ridge they are there are another But

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Speaker 3: are they rich enough for ghost energy?

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Speaker 4: I'm sure some of them are.

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Speaker 7: It also puts the inequality that all wealth rests on,

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Speaker 7: like right, in your face because you have all these

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Speaker 7: guest workers everywhere and here here you talk to your

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Speaker 7: uber drivers and you're kind of like, no, no normal

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Speaker 7: people with normal families here in the US. Over there,

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Speaker 7: it's like, oh, yeah, I haven't been back to Sri

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Speaker 7: Lanka for two years to see my family, and I

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Speaker 7: make like, you know, five hundred dollars a month and intend.

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Speaker 4: It all back.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 7: It's absolutely like there are so many people across this

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Speaker 7: world living just the most difficult lives, and those are

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Speaker 7: the people lucky enough to get those jobs right, which

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Speaker 7: is it's it's a reminder of just what an ugly

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Speaker 7: world we've developed.

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Speaker 3: And we will be talking about some drop site reporting.

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Speaker 5: Actually later in the show, we're going to start with

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Speaker 5: obviously breaking news as it relates to Tel Aviv. This

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Speaker 5: is just breaking as we were after we had prepped

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Speaker 5: most of the show, So we're going to.

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Speaker 3: Get to that in a moment. Updates on Lemonon.

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Speaker 5: There is a truly remarkable Rashieta to lead Block retreated

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Speaker 5: to leave kind of versus CNN or versus the world,

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Speaker 5: if you could say that. We're going to get to

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Speaker 5: just after we do some updates from the conflict itself,

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Speaker 5: Kamala Harris and the filibuster saga that started in like

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty two. Actually probably, I'm sure she commented on

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Speaker 5: it before, but Joe Manchin has now said he will

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Speaker 5: not endorse Kamala Harris because she told the radio station

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Speaker 5: yesterday she wants to get rid of that philibus.

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Speaker 4: There goes West Virginia. She had such high hopes.

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Speaker 5: All those West Virginia voters going to the polls and

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Speaker 5: voting to preserve the Phillibus.

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Speaker 7: Joe Manchin himself didn't run in West Virginia because he

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Speaker 7: was going to get crushed, so I'm not sure what

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Speaker 7: his endorsement would have meant. But anyway, Yeah, yes, Cris

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Speaker 7: and Cinema also not happy. And then we'll be talking

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Speaker 7: about this lawsuit that the Department of Justice filed against Visa,

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Speaker 7: which is excellent and awesome. It actually comes after Trump

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Speaker 7: was pigging backing off of Bernie Sanders again saying that

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Speaker 7: he's going to cap interest rates at ten percent. Talk

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Speaker 7: about you know why they filed this lawsuit and what

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Speaker 7: it might mean if they actually succeed for prices and

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Speaker 7: for people who use debit cards, which is basically all people.

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Speaker 4: And then what do we got.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Marcellus Williams.

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Speaker 7: Williams, Yes, yes, there was an execution in Missouri of

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Speaker 7: and I'll give him his real name, Khalifa ibn rayfer Daniels.

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Speaker 7: He converted while while in prison. Executed last night. Despite

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Speaker 7: the fact that the family asked for clemency, the victims family,

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Speaker 7: the victim's family asked for clemency, there are significant doubts

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Speaker 7: about his conviction. The jury only included one black member

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Speaker 7: after the prosecutor later admitted striking people because of their

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Speaker 7: race effectively, and the prosecutor's office that originally prosecuted him

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Speaker 7: wanted him to get clemency instead.

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Speaker 4: He's dead.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we.

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Speaker 5: Will break down all of the details and even talk

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Speaker 5: about the larger trend because because I think just this

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Speaker 5: month there's a host of executions that are scheduled to.

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Speaker 7: Take place that is well a bunch of the next

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Speaker 7: couple of weeks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the pace is pretty high in the next

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Speaker 5: couple of weeks. So we'll talk about all of that.

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Speaker 5: Let's start on another bleak topic, which is we're going

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Speaker 5: to be beginning with Tel Aviv Ryan breaking news out

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Speaker 5: of Tel Aviv, where Israel says they says that it

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Speaker 5: intercepted a missile that was heading for Tel Aviv. Now

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Speaker 5: what we're hearing is that apparently that was the story

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Speaker 5: from Hesbela is that it was intended for a Masad headquarters.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, the Masad headquarters in the suburbs of Tel Aviv.

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Speaker 7: Which if this were a newscast about an assault on

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Speaker 7: Gaza or on Lebanon, the newscaster would immediately say that

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Speaker 7: Israel is keeping its military and intelligence infrastructure in civilian

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Speaker 7: areas to hide behind human shields.

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Speaker 4: And when we.

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Speaker 7: See the reverse, we see how clearly it is, how

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Speaker 7: clear it is.

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Speaker 4: That doesn't make it okay to bombs.

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Speaker 7: For some reason, the American public is swayed by that

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Speaker 7: argument when it comes to say Gaza or Lebanon or

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Speaker 7: anywhere else. Say oh, well it was in a suburb.

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Speaker 7: That's well, I guess that's a real shame that they

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Speaker 7: had to level all those apartment buildings in that entire

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Speaker 7: civilion area, or that hospital they found, oh, they found

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Speaker 7: a couple of weapons.

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Speaker 5: I was gonna say, people conflate those two things. The

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Speaker 5: idea of as in this case, having the SOD headquarters

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Speaker 5: in the suburbs, which is the same as the CIA

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Speaker 5: for example, a lot of those intelligence agencies are out

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Speaker 5: in the suburbs here, but then.

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Speaker 4: Bomb costco here and if they're aim for the Pentagon.

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Speaker 5: And no casualties reported so far in this case. But

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Speaker 5: people will conflate having in a densely populated area like

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Speaker 5: Gaza infrastructure that's near military infrastructure with people when they're

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Speaker 5: literally hiding like bombs under children's beds.

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Speaker 3: So two things are not the same.

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Speaker 7: And another difference would be the actual firing of the

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Speaker 7: missiles somehow, you know, Hamas or pij will fire missiles

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Speaker 7: from very nearby like a school or a mosque or

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Speaker 7: something else. But again that's related less to I think,

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Speaker 7: you know, morality and more to just the massive asymmetry

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Speaker 7: like Israel has the US sending you know, fighter jets

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Speaker 7: and endless amounts of bombs and missiles and has the

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Speaker 7: capacity to you know, to just launch from the air

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Speaker 7: when when they go about building their infrastructure, they build

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Speaker 7: their military infrastructure right into Tel Aviv.

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Speaker 5: So again, no casualties reported so far in the situation.

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Speaker 5: The death toll according to the Associated Press since Monday

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Speaker 5: in Lebanon is five hundred and sixty four people. That's

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Speaker 5: fifty children and ninety four women, according to Lebanese authorities.

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Speaker 5: So there's been also attacks from Husbal and Northern Israel.

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Speaker 3: A couple of people in.

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Speaker 7: Labu's vo here of the this is very rude carnage.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well this is southern.

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Speaker 3: Lebanon, okay.

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Speaker 5: And there was reports of people getting hit by shrapnel

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Speaker 5: and a kabbotz in northern Israel. What you're seeing on

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Speaker 5: your screen right now, Ryan, this is southern Lebanon, utter destruction.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: And this is this is a man who was going

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Speaker 7: back to try to get to his to his wife.

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Speaker 7: Here's some other attacks that you're seeing across Lebanon. I

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Speaker 7: think it's worth kind of setting up some of the

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Speaker 7: contexts here for people who have been you know, focused

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Speaker 7: you know, mostly on the Israel Gaza war and also

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Speaker 7: the attack on the West Bank. So very very brief

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Speaker 7: history of Hesbela like. They emerged as a result of

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Speaker 7: the nineteen eighty two invasion of of Lebanon by Israel,

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Speaker 7: and they formed into a guerrilla group to expel Israel

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Speaker 7: and actually finally succeeded in doing so in two thousand

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Speaker 7: and kind of became kind of heroes of resistance around

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Speaker 7: the region as a result of it, and then began

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Speaker 7: to embed themselves into the body politic of Lebanon, which

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Speaker 7: is a very ailing and kind of psychotic body like

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Speaker 7: it's just a complete it's a complete Lebanon as a

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Speaker 7: state is a complete mess. In two thousand and six,

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Speaker 7: they lost launched a little cross border raide and grabbed

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Speaker 7: a couple of Israeli soldiers, and Israel then launched a

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Speaker 7: massive all out bombing campaign and ground invasion into Lebanon,

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Speaker 7: which turned out to be a failure, did not get

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Speaker 7: the hostages back, and also withdrew, which again kind of

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Speaker 7: raising the celebrity status in the region of Hesbola. But

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Speaker 7: then in the twenty tens there was a Syrious civil

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Speaker 7: war and Hesbula sided with Bashar Alsade. Now you can

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Speaker 7: imagine why they would do that, because they are allies

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Speaker 7: with Iran. Iran his allies with Syria, and so if

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Speaker 7: Hesbel is a client of Iran and Iran's got business,

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Speaker 7: Hesbel is going to carry out that business. But that

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Speaker 7: meant that they were fighting with a lot of kind

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Speaker 7: of stunny rebels in Syria. And killing a lot of Muslims,

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Speaker 7: and that very much tarnished their reputation and led to

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Speaker 7: a break between Hamas and Hesbela.

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Speaker 4: Like they became adversaries. They were on the other side

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Speaker 4: of this.

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Speaker 7: Hamas was supportive of the uprising in Syria. But since then,

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Speaker 7: right before a little bit before October seventh, Hamas and

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Speaker 7: Hesbela had a Dayton and became allies again. And so

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Speaker 7: right after October seventh, when when the rubber hit the

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Speaker 7: road with the war between Israel and Hamas, hesbel immediately

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Speaker 7: starts launching rockets, which sends sixty thousand roughly Israelis from

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Speaker 7: the north scattering displaced back towards Tel Aviv and elsewhere.

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Speaker 7: That is what is driving the political pressure to now

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Speaker 7: go to war with Lebanon to try to get those

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Speaker 7: sixty thousand people back into their homes who've been displaced

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Speaker 7: for that long. Imagine how much pressure that puts on Israel.

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Speaker 7: Sixty thousand people, gods is two million people into place,

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Speaker 7: displaced for eleven months.

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 7: In the same way that the Huthis, we're facing domestic

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Speaker 7: problems and regional problems. Because of the civil war, there

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Speaker 7: were able to politically overcome those by challenging Israel. Hesbela

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Speaker 7: too is able to overcome it's problems that it had

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Speaker 7: in the region by challenging Israel. It's the oldest story

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Speaker 7: in politics. You got problems at home, you find an

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Speaker 7: adversary somewhere else that people hate more, and everybody rallies

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Speaker 7: around the flag. And so it is in the kind

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Speaker 7: of domestic political interests of all of these actors, whether

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Speaker 7: it's the Huthis, Iraqi Shea militia's Hesbela, to challenge Israel,

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Speaker 7: and because it makes them look like they're standing up

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Speaker 7: for gods of which they are and what Nozrala has

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Speaker 7: keeps staying Hezbla and the Huthies as well, we are

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Speaker 7: not ending this until the war on Gaza ends.

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Speaker 5: This was going to be my big question for you

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Speaker 5: with all of that context, because the open, the massive

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Speaker 5: open question is does this escalate? And that's been the

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Speaker 5: fear since violence broke out on October seventh. I mean,

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Speaker 5: where do you see this going with Where do you

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Speaker 5: see this going in terms of how it can pour

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Speaker 5: even more sort of.

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Speaker 3: Gas on this fire.

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Speaker 5: If it's good, if it's in the interest of Hesbola

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Speaker 5: politically to escalate. Does Hesbela escalate? Are there external pressures?

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Speaker 5: A lot of people would say they're so. The argument

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Speaker 5: from like the neo conservative camp would be that Iran

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Speaker 5: is orchestrating all of this their puppets or they're like

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Speaker 5: sort of chest pieces in Iran's game versus the West.

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Speaker 5: So it's not necessarily what Hesbola wants, it'll be what

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Speaker 5: Iran wants is how do you respond to that?

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Speaker 7: So I don't think it's in well one point on

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Speaker 7: that Iran has major influence over hesbla US has major

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Speaker 7: influence over Israel. Both Israel and Hasbel have their own

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Speaker 7: agency as well, though from their kind of superpower.

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Speaker 3: And their own political motivations.

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Speaker 7: Runs on a superpower, bigger power and their own political motivations.

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Speaker 7: But I don't think it's in their interest to escalate.

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Speaker 7: I think it's it's in their interest to look like

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Speaker 7: they're putting up a strong resistance and continuing to put

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Speaker 7: pressure on Israel to end its genocidal campaign in gods like,

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Speaker 7: I think that's what that's what works for them. They

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Speaker 7: they think, and Iran and Hesbel have been very clear

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Speaker 7: and kind of the signals that they've been sending and

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Speaker 7: that their proxies and putting out that they believe Netna

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Speaker 7: who wants a regional war to bail himself out, that

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Speaker 7: Neta is kind of stuck in a cull to sack

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Speaker 7: of his own making and wants to just flip the

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Speaker 7: table and see what happens on the other side.

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Speaker 4: Like it's not even.

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Speaker 7: Necessarily a strategy, but it's a strategy to blow things

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Speaker 7: up and live live to see another day. And both

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Speaker 7: Iron and Hasbela think, if that is the thing that

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Speaker 7: our adversary wants, let's do everything we can to avoid

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Speaker 7: giving him that, which is exactly what I and some

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Speaker 7: other people were saying right after October seventh, that it

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Speaker 7: was like Hamas launched this attack very clearly as a

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Speaker 7: provocation to bring about an overreaction that would then discredit

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Speaker 7: you on the world stage, on the world stage and

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Speaker 7: the art your economy, and and flip the table and

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Speaker 7: just see what happens upset the status quo. So if

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Speaker 7: you're Israel, be smart, don't give them that. But they

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Speaker 7: couldn't help themselves. So there are some who think that

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Speaker 7: has Blow has been so thoroughly degraded by the intelligence

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Speaker 7: infiltration basically. So it's interesting how in Gaza Hamas has

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Speaker 7: obviously been completely you know, shell act, but they but

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Speaker 7: Israel had to do it by destroying the entire area

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Speaker 7: and then.

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Speaker 5: Lives to see another day as an organization exactly.

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Speaker 7: But they have not been able to but they've but

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Speaker 7: they've been able to inflict a lot more damage more

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Speaker 7: quickly on Hesbela. I think some of that has to

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Speaker 7: do with how because Gods is such a closed off society,

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Speaker 7: like literally physically closed off, and Israel has much less intelligence.

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Speaker 3: Let's actually penetration. Yeah, let's put these up on the screen.

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Speaker 3: So this is a two.

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Speaker 5: This is a map of where you can see the

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Speaker 5: latest death toll. And look at the concentration there in

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Speaker 5: southern Lebanon if you're listening to this, a massive cluster

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Speaker 5: of dots in southern Lebanon on the border with northern Israel.

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Speaker 5: We also have r And this is I think sort

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Speaker 5: of along the lines.

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Speaker 3: Of what you were just talking to.

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Speaker 5: If we put a three up on the screen, this

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Speaker 5: is a map explain what we're seeing here and how

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Speaker 5: it relates to everything you just mentioned.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so this is this is this is a map

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Speaker 7: that basically Israel putting out saying like it's in Hebrew everything,

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Speaker 7: and I put it for the next one. I think

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Speaker 7: we have the translation and a bit of a translation

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Speaker 7: in the next one. Basically, what they're saying is that

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Speaker 7: when I said earlier that Lebanon is a mess of

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Speaker 7: a state. So this is Ama Chikhly, Israeli Minister of

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Speaker 7: the Aspirin combating Andy sim minister in the government, saying basically,

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Speaker 7: Israel isn't a Lebanon is not a real government in

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Speaker 7: a real state. It was you know, drawn by colonialists, Sykes.

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Speaker 7: He talks about Sykes p Co. It's like the amount

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Speaker 7: of projection and like irony and it is overwhelming. But

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Speaker 7: he says, this isn't a real state, these borders aren't real.

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Speaker 7: And by having these Lebanese civilians down here by this

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Speaker 7: green line, it makes it more difficult for you know,

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Speaker 7: our people who.

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Speaker 4: Live in villages up the north to live there safely.

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Speaker 7: So basically what they're saying is we need to push

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Speaker 7: these Lebanese folks way up higher. Not a country, and

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Speaker 7: it's not a country anyway, so we can just redraw it.

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Speaker 7: Like he says, you know, the country actually a country's

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Speaker 7: borders ought to be drawn by natural boundaries and power

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Speaker 7: power politics, which okay, I guess that is how it's

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Speaker 7: always been done. We're just kind of used to it

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Speaker 7: being stable over the last one hundred years or so. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: they're what they're implying there is that they're going to

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Speaker 7: you know, run a campaign about the cleansing and clear

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Speaker 7: it out of people so that they can repopulate northern

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Speaker 7: northern areas. I mean, that has been a long time

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Speaker 7: goal what's called greater Israel. But they've been but they've

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Speaker 7: been able to infiltrate Hesbola in a way that has

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Speaker 7: allowed them to kill an enormous number of senior officials

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Speaker 7: and middlemen. The pager attack, it sounds like it named

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Speaker 7: something like fourteen or fifteen one hundred people.

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Speaker 4: It's a fighting for us of about forty to fifty thousand.

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Speaker 7: But it's communications had been disrupted by all of the assassinations.

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Speaker 7: You know, they moved from cell phones over to pagers.

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Speaker 7: Then the pagers start exploding, so you know, there's it's

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Speaker 7: an open question about how much damage has been reached.

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Speaker 7: And so there are some people who are saying that

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Speaker 7: the lack of a huge response so far is strategic

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Speaker 7: and that it is related to Iran and Hesbela not

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Speaker 7: wanting to give Israel this all out war. There are

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Speaker 7: others who are saying they've really received a massive blow

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Speaker 7: and that they don't even have the capacity, and that

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Speaker 7: its supporters are kind of covering up the fact that

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Speaker 7: they've received this major blow by pointing to a strategic

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Speaker 7: pause like hold me back, hold me back.

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Speaker 5: And before we get to this new drop site report

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Speaker 5: that is chilling, could you walk us through what Pro

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Speaker 5: Publica found in the investigation about Gaza yesterday. This was

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Speaker 5: released yesterday. I believe as well. This is a four.

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Speaker 5: We can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so interesting interesting piece here.

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Speaker 7: So Pro public is investigation here Israel deliberately blocked humanitarian

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Speaker 7: aid to Gaza, to government bodies, concluded Anthony Blincoln rejected them.

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Speaker 7: So on the one hand, we reported here a time

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Speaker 7: based on my aquackmed at Hugh Post and actually devx,

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Speaker 7: which does some great reporting on usaid and it's like

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Speaker 7: a trade public focuses on development around the world, had

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Speaker 7: reported that of the three agencies within the State Department

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Speaker 7: that were asked to sign off on whether or not

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Speaker 7: Israel was restricting humanitarian aid.

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Speaker 4: Two of them said that they.

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Speaker 7: Were restricting the aid, that that was their assessment on

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Speaker 7: the ground that Israel was blocking aid from getting in

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Speaker 7: the legal consequences of that was under this provision called

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Speaker 7: six to twenty. I we can't give military funding to

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Speaker 7: a state actor that is, at the same time blocking

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Speaker 7: our own umanitarian aid from getting to the people we're

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Speaker 7: trying to send it to. Pretty reasonable law. Kind of

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Speaker 7: funny that we even had to put that into law.

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Speaker 7: It's so common sense, like we're not no, of course,

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Speaker 7: we're not supporting somebody who's actively our adversary and attempting

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Speaker 7: to get humanitarian aid.

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Speaker 4: Turns out we would do that.

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Speaker 7: So the State Department, we're blinking at least, had to

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Speaker 7: figure out a way to affirm to Congress that this

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Speaker 7: law was not being broken. And his problem was that

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Speaker 7: his people inside the State Department were telling him that

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Speaker 7: it was the law was being broken. And what pro

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Speaker 7: public it does have that hadn't been reported before is

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Speaker 7: this fascinating email exchange at the very end of its article.

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Speaker 7: So if you read that piece, just scroll to the

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Speaker 7: very end and just it's very strange. Like their last

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Speaker 7: six paragraphs are like awesome. The rest of it is

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Speaker 7: like we knew all this already, but go to the

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Speaker 7: last six paragraphs and read those.

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Speaker 4: But basically what happens is the top.

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Speaker 7: State Department official who really is in charge of moving

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Speaker 7: the money, moving American tax dollars to Israel so Israel

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Speaker 7: can send them back to US for weapons, is telling

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Speaker 7: the General Council of the State Department, we really need

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Speaker 7: to move this money, like they've got Israel has bills

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Speaker 7: to pay, which is also absurd. They're not paying their

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Speaker 7: own bills. We're paying the bills. We're just moving it

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Speaker 7: over there and me it back. Hope, we're not paying

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Speaker 7: banking fees to visa the like they were like Western

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Speaker 7: Union the entire time.

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Speaker 5: That should be the next drop site investigation. That is

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Speaker 5: a big question.

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Speaker 7: Who are the banks that are just like siphoning fees

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Speaker 7: as we send money to Israel and Israel sends them

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Speaker 7: back to Rosalin right for the weapons. But so anyway,

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Speaker 7: they're like, look there, they got bills to pay, we

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Speaker 7: need to move this money over there.

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Speaker 4: But the General.

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Speaker 7: Hou's like, ooh, but we still don't have approval yet

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Speaker 7: because there's still questions about whether they're blocking humanitarian aid.

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Speaker 7: So there's this email chain and a top eureaucrat writes back,

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Speaker 7: a woman named noyus I forget her first name. She

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Speaker 7: writes back, it's our assessment that they are. In fact,

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Speaker 7: I'm still blocking humanitarian aid. And so the GC is like,

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Speaker 7: so are you saying that they're in violation of six

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Speaker 7: twenty I right, and she say, yep, that is our

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Speaker 7: that is our assessment. So it's like boom, okay, don

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Speaker 7: you cannot send the money. Then they take it offline.

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Speaker 7: As pro Public reports, the woman a couple of meetings

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Speaker 7: with seeing your officials, and she decides that you know,

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Speaker 7: what Israel really is doing not everything that we'd like

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Speaker 7: them to do, but they're they're really trying, and they're

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Speaker 7: making commitments.

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Speaker 4: They're saying things.

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Speaker 3: And it is true that like the situation is true.

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Speaker 4: They said things, and it's true.

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Speaker 3: The situation is difficult.

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Speaker 5: It's true that there are legitimate problems with like getting

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Speaker 5: the aid to the right people in a war zone.

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Speaker 4: True.

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Speaker 7: But as like USAID in its in its private report

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Speaker 7: that has since surfaced, they have examples of aid workers

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Speaker 7: who Israel gives permission to evacuate along a certain route

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Speaker 7: that they then run into an Israeli checkpoint, gets stopped.

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Speaker 7: They're like, we have been approved to move through here.

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Speaker 7: They're like nope, sorry, go back. They go back. IDF

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Speaker 7: opens fire on them and kills them. So the USA

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Speaker 7: it is like, Okay, maybe there are some challenges here

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Speaker 7: to what we're doing here, but what they're doing is

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Speaker 7: what they're doing is malicious. And they didn't use the

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Speaker 7: word genocidal, but what they're doing is far beyond what

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Speaker 7: is necessary.

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Speaker 3: And how do you read the blink in politics into.

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Speaker 7: This that Blincoln was clearly always just going to sign

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Speaker 7: off on this, and you know, you know.

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Speaker 4: I guess.

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Speaker 7: Fortunately for Blanken, a decent number of State Department officials

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Speaker 7: have resigned in protest over over this policy. So now

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Speaker 7: he doesn't have to worry about them either. He can

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Speaker 7: just h The only the only time that humanitaranian had

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Speaker 7: ticked up a little bit was after that World Central

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Speaker 7: Kitchen massacre. Yeah, and Biden and Biden had to get

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Speaker 7: on the phone with then Yahoo say like, you need

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Speaker 7: to do better, And for several days things were better,

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Speaker 7: and then they went and they went back to normal.

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Speaker 5: Speaking of things being well, I shouldn't say normal, but

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Speaker 5: the sad state of normal, at least in the last

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Speaker 5: couple of years. Ryan, let's put a five up on

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Speaker 5: the screen, and can you talk to us about this

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Speaker 5: story on drops about a capture journalist.

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Speaker 7: Yes, so you guys might remember here a couple of

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Speaker 7: weeks ago we talked on this program about an article

441
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 7: that Mujahad al Sadi was a really well respected journalist

442
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 7: writing mostly in Arab right, who writes in Arabic translate.

443
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 4: He reported the piece for us.

444
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 7: We translated it into English so that an English language

445
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 7: audience could benefit from his journalistic skills. You may remember that,

446
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 7: you know, he was one of the handful of journalists

447
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 7: who was chased by that bulldozer and fired at in

448
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 7: Janine while the while they were doing their reporting. You

449
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 7: actually put up the next element.

450
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 4: This is his piece that he wrote for us.

451
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 7: So it turns out that this piece was early in September,

452
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 7: on September nineteenth, so two thirty am in the morning,

453
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 7: idf burst burst into his home and they and according

454
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 7: to his according to his brother, they start beating him

455
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 7: with the butts of their sixteen's he's you know, he's barefoot.

456
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 7: It's two thirty in the morning, his wife tries to

457
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 7: get him his shoes while they're like dragging him out

458
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 7: of there, and they start beating his wife.

459
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: And you've all learned those from accounts from.

460
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 7: The family, the accounts from the family and other people

461
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 7: that were kind of familiar with with how this happened.

462
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 4: He had, he has he has three young children.

463
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 7: So then they we learned that they moved him to

464
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 7: Jalama prison where they interrogated him before transferring him to Megido,

465
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 7: which is utterly and people can google an M E.

466
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 7: G I D d oh utterly notorious prison. At least

467
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 7: four people held there have died since October seventh. It's

468
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 7: it's it's known for torture and absolutely kind of grotesque

469
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 7: and barbaric conditions. And we have asked the Idea for

470
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 7: information about about him, and they have told us that

471
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 7: they'll look into it. That's the that's the best that

472
00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 7: we've gotten so far. He's he was if if you recall,

473
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 7: he was friends with shrin Abu Wakhla, the colleague of hers.

474
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 7: Was was with her, like standing basically right next to

475
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 7: her the day that she was shot and killed by

476
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 7: the Idea of Engineine. He's been a journal he's like,

477
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 7: he's a very well respected journalist in the region. Not

478
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 7: not well, I was going to say, not the kind

479
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 7: of person who would expect this to happen to if

480
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 7: Israel was trying to do that thing where they're like, oh,

481
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 7: actually this guy's Amas.

482
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 4: Amas. He's very well respected journalist Enganeine.

483
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 7: Who as we sit here, it's difficult to comprehend the

484
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 7: conditions under which he's he's being held.

485
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 5: And really, you've gotten nothing from the idea. The idea

486
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 5: is just totally mom.

487
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, we'll get back to you.

488
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 7: So we'll continue to continue to press on them. There

489
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 7: are obviously a lot of organizations and supporters of his

490
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 7: in the in the region who are also pressing for answers.

491
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 7: But that's yeah, I wish I.

492
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 3: Had more important story to follows.

493
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 7: That I could report. We're actually we're gonna see what

494
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 7: we can do. We're gonna we're launching a competition. If

495
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 7: it's if it's out by the time this is up,

496
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 7: I'll put it in the in the comment section of this.

497
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 7: Maybe if you know, a couple hundred thousand people demand

498
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 7: that he'd be released, it helps some pressure on that.

499
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 5: I don't know the well yeah, I mean it's an

500
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 5: important story to follow, especially you know, given how Israel

501
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 5: uh sort of clings to the only democracy in the

502
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 5: middle and.

503
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 7: This comes after and right around the same time that

504
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 7: they shut down Al Jazeera's Ramala, which Ramala is like

505
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 7: that it's like the headquarters of the Palestinian authority, which

506
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 7: is a subcontractor effectively of the idef of Israel.

507
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 5: Quite a situation brewing in Michigan, Ryan with sort of

508
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 5: Rashida Siali versus CNN versus the world. This has been

509
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 5: an unfolding, wild series of events, unfortunate series of events

510
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 5: really for CNN. But tell us how, Dana Nassel we

511
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 5: can put this first element up on the screen factors

512
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 5: into all of this in Michigan.

513
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think you could write do an entire course

514
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 7: on media bias and duplicity on this like five day

515
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 7: affair as actually more than five days, and we can

516
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 7: get into why. But yeah, So to start out, Dana

517
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 7: Nassel is the is the Attorney General of Michigan, and

518
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 7: so she tweeted on September twentieth, which kicked all of

519
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 7: this off. Rashida's religion should not be used in a

520
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 7: cartoon to imply that she's a terrorist. It's it's lamophobic

521
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 7: and wrong, just as Rashida should not use my religion

522
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 7: to imply I cannot perform my job fairly as attorney general.

523
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 7: It's anti Semitic and wrong. Now I remember seeing this

524
00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 7: post and thinking, boy, that is terrible. I hope nobody

525
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 7: would do such a thing. And also, what's going on

526
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 7: with this cartoon? So if this was on this day,

527
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 7: a Detroit News cartoonist had published a cartoon in National Review.

528
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 7: So here's a tweet here from dearborn mayor in front

529
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 7: of the show, abdulahamoud Uh posting the National Review cartoon.

530
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 7: So if you're if you're watching, if you're listening to

531
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 7: this only by audio, it's basically saying why is my

532
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 7: you know she's why is her pager exploding? Basically saying,

533
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 7: you know, suggesting that Rashida Talib is like a member

534
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 7: of Hezbolad is being targeted by the IDF.

535
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: So like.

536
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 7: Clearly deeply islamophobic cartoon that in a different kind of

537
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 7: world would have kickstarted a news cycle where you'd have

538
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 7: the media pressing critics of Talib as whether or not

539
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 7: they denounced this attack on her this kind of baseless

540
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 7: attack that came out of nowhere.

541
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 5: Instead, I mean, yeah, well, I'll just say I disagreed

542
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 5: that it's bigger than in islamophobic because the argument from

543
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 5: a lot of I mean, it does come from a

544
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 5: lot of particularly from Jewish conservatives who say that she

545
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 5: they have these like deep suspicions that I completely disagree

546
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 5: with that Rasheta Talib actually does side with the militant

547
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 5: aspects of Palestinian resistance. Thus it would make sense that

548
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 5: a pager that's there. That is their line of thinking.

549
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 5: And I don't think that is necessarily big.

550
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 7: That is their line of thinking. But the reason that

551
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 7: I think it is bigger than Islamo phobus is the

552
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 7: reason that they think sometimes but not has a lot

553
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 7: to do with her Palestinian identity. She and Marcy Capped,

554
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 7: She and Betty mcollum like agree on most things when

555
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 7: it comes to Israel Palestine policy. Betty McCollum, though it's

556
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 7: a white lady, so people don't accuse her of being

557
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 7: a terrorist.

558
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 5: I mean, people accuse democrats of being like even white

559
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 5: Democrats of being terrorists.

560
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: Like it happens.

561
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 5: That's because and I think it's really wrong, because it's

562
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 5: this idea that if you are opposed to Israel's military action.

563
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 7: We don't live in a world where we ever would

564
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 7: get a condemnation of that cartoon.

565
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 5: But I don't disagree with you though that like that.

566
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 5: There are people who just connect the dots and say, oh, well,

567
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 5: she's you know, vaguely Arab, so she must of course

568
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 5: be hesbolah.

569
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: Right.

570
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 5: No, I don't disagree that that is a thing. I

571
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 5: just don't think it's necessarily figoted.

572
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 7: So Meg Whitmer comes on it, thenn Gretchen Wimer, I'm sorry, Meg.

573
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 4: Meg Whitman is the New Jersey one.

574
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, I thought you're thinking of Meg Whitman.

575
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 4: Yes, scretch and big gretch.

576
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 7: The governor of Michigan goes on Jake Jake Tapper's program,

577
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 7: H and here's what he asked her about. Nessel responded

578
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 7: by saying, quote, Rashida to Leave should not use my

579
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 7: religion to imply I cannot perform my job fairly as

580
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 7: attorney general.

581
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: It's anti Semitic and wrong.

582
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 4: Unquote.

583
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: Do you think that to leave suggestion that So's offices

584
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: biased was anti semitic?

585
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 6: Listen, Jake, you know all I can say is that

586
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 6: I know that our Jewish community is in pain, as

587
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 6: is our Palestinian and Muslim and Arab communities in Michigan.

588
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 6: I know that seeing the incredible tool that this war

589
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 6: has taken on both communities has been really really challenging

590
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 6: and difficult, and my heart breaks for so many But

591
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 6: as governor, my job is to make sure that both

592
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 6: these communities are protected and respected under the law in Michigan,

593
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 6: and that's exactly what I'm going to stay focused on.

594
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: But do you think Attorney General Nessl is not doing

595
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: her job because Congressoman to Leeve is suggesting that she

596
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't be prosecuting these individuals that Nessl says broke the

597
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: law and that she's only doing it because she's Jewish

598
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: and the protesters are not. That's quite quite an accusation.

599
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: Do you think it's true?

600
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 6: Like I said, Jake, I'm not going to get in

601
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 6: the middle of this argument that they're having. I can

602
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 6: just say this, You know, we do want to make

603
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 6: sure that students are safe on our campuses.

604
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 7: So if you're watching that on CNN, you would assume

605
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 7: that Rashida Talib said that Dana Nessel because she's Jewish

606
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 7: is biased against Palestinians.

607
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 4: That is what CNN reported she said.

608
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 5: And it's because Dana Nessel said that just as Rashida

609
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 5: should not use my religion to imply I cannot perform

610
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 5: my job fairly as Attorney general. It's anti Semitic and wrong.

611
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 5: So what the media is doing in this case is

612
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 5: taking the word of a partisan actor, and we see

613
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 5: it all the time. It's not new, but it is

614
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 5: always worth noting that Jake Tapper picked up on exactly

615
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: the point that Danasil made on.

616
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 7: It exactly, and it turns out she didn't say that

617
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 7: as Rashida. Tsleib did not say that, as would be

618
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 7: evidenced by an actual reading of what she said in

619
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 7: the original article in the Metro Times. But still, Gretchen

620
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 7: Wittnmer Sorry, is under huge pressure, and so she puts

621
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 7: out a statement gives to Jake Tapper, you can put

622
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 7: this next element up on the screen. She says, the

623
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 7: suggestion that Attorney General Nessa would make charging decisions based

624
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 7: on her religion as opposed to the rule of law

625
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 7: is anti Semitic. Attorney General Nessl has always conducted her

626
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 7: work with integrity and followed the rule of law and

627
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 7: must all use our platform voice to call out hayfel

628
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 7: rhetoric and raiseist tropes. It's an interesting formulation there because

629
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 7: the suggestion is anti Semitic.

630
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 4: Okay, that suggestion is.

631
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 7: She didn't actually make that suggestion anti Defamation League Jonathan

632
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 7: green Blad, He jumps on it, it asserts that it happened,

633
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 7: and then denounces it ironically doing if she wasn't a

634
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 7: public figure, what would be defamation because he's saying something

635
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 7: that is wrong and that would be checkable if he

636
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 7: just bothered to read the entire article. Now here's what's fascinating.

637
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 7: So we put up this next element here. The article

638
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 7: that they're all talking about was published on September thirteenth.

639
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 3: And Nessel responded on the twentieth.

640
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 7: Nessel responded on the twentieth, the day she was attacked

641
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 7: in that cartoon cynical instead of and she just brought

642
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 7: it up out of a week later. And so what

643
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 7: and we can get to this more in a second.

644
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 7: What Rashida Talib said is that she has been too

645
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 7: many protests in Detroit against police brutality, against racism, again,

646
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 7: for climate change, climate justice, and on and on and

647
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 7: nessl has never brought felony charges against any of those

648
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 7: protesters yet is bringing them in this case. She then

649
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 7: goes on to say we'll talk about this more later.

650
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 7: That Nessel was under significant pressure from the University of

651
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 7: Michigan regents and leadership, and that that created a biased

652
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 7: approach to this, and.

653
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 5: They got significant pushback from public public relations perspective, from

654
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 5: an alumni perspective when those protests broke out, and they

655
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 5: were obviously being responsive to that outcry in the media

656
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 5: of the surge of anti Semitism at the University of Michigan,

657
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 5: and some of their protests did get a little they

658
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 5: got her.

659
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 7: But Talive had tale was explicit about where the bias was.

660
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 7: This pressure nothing to do with Jewishness. Dana Bash goes

661
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 7: on cenn and after Jake Tapper, let's let's roll Danavash.

662
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 8: Here and now to a sad reality, and that is

663
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 8: anti Semitism is everywhere, and it comes from both ends

664
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 8: of the political spectrum, but politicians sometimes sidestep calling it

665
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 8: out when it comes from a member of their own party.

666
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 8: We saw two examples on State of the Union yesterday,

667
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 8: first with Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer when my co ancher,

668
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 8: Jake Tapper, asked about a Democratic congresswoman's accusation that the

669
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 8: state's Jewish attorney general was letting her religion influence her job.

670
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 8: What does it tell you about the inability or unwillingness

671
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 8: to do so when it comes from a prominent person.

672
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 3: In your own part.

673
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 6: Let you change your word.

674
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 9: It's not anility, it's unwillingness. And it's because you're putting

675
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 9: politics ahead of principle and morality. And that's what both

676
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 9: of them did there. It's not very hard to say that.

677
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 9: Rashida to Leib saying that Dana Nessel is pursuing charges

678
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 9: because she's Jewish is an anti Semitic thing to say.

679
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 7: It is, okay, yeah again, she didn't say that now

680
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 7: because Twitter exists, there was a lot there was a

681
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 7: lot of pushback from Ryan Grimm, from Yan Grim and

682
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 7: other people. We're like, wait a minute, she pulling my

683
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 7: hair out?

684
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: What hair I have left? Like? She didn't say that, yeah,

685
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 4: Like what are you talking about?

686
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah?

687
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 7: So finally we do get a clarification from Dana Bash,

688
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 7: but not really.

689
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 4: Here's what Dana Bash.

690
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 8: Clarified clarification on a story We brought you yesterday concerning

691
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 8: Congresswoman Rashida to Leed's comments attacking a decision by Michigan

692
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 8: Attorney General Dana Nessl to bring charges against pro Palestinian

693
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 8: protesters at the University of Michigan. T Leave accused Nessl

694
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 8: of quote biases. Here's to Leave's full quote to the

695
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 8: Detroit Metro Times. It seems that the attorney general decided,

696
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,959
Speaker 8: if the issue was Palestine, she was going to treat

697
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 8: it differently. That alone speaks volumes about possible biases within

698
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 8: the agency she runs. Now, Talib did not reference Nessl's

699
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 8: Jewish identity. Her office has not responded to our request

700
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 8: for clarity. Her allies insists that's not what she meant,

701
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 8: but Nessel still says she believes it is anti Semitic

702
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 8: and repeat it on CNN yesterday. That quote clearly she's

703
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 8: referencing my religion.

704
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 7: So again, if she wants clarity, she could go read

705
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 7: the entire article where she says the bias comes from

706
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 7: pressure from.

707
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 4: The University of Michigan.

708
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, that is the equivalent that you just saw of

709
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 7: whenever somebody posts fake news on social media when they.

710
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 4: Get called out.

711
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: The follow up tweet.

712
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 7: The follow up tweet is always yeah, but isn't it

713
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 7: interesting that I believed it?

714
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 4: Somebody it is?

715
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 7: It is somebody said there's a saying in the Czech

716
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 7: Republic that goes it's not true, but it might be.

717
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 7: So that was That's basically the Dana Bash standard there.

718
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 7: Jake Tapper also issued a bit of a clarification here.

719
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 4: Let's roll Jake.

720
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: Tapper, I should note that I misspoke yesterday when asking

721
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: a follow up of Governor Whitmer, who I asked about this.

722
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: I was trying to characterize your views of Talib's comments.

723
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: What do you make of those today? Noting that Congressoman

724
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 1: to Leave never explicitly said that your bias was because

725
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: of your religion, and so it's unfair for you to

726
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: make that allegation.

727
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,240
Speaker 4: It's kind of an interesting question.

728
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 7: It's like, she never said it, so it's unfair for

729
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 7: you to say that she said it.

730
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 4: How do you respond to that.

731
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 5: It's just it's the fact was too good for them

732
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 5: to check out, because in a way it reminds me

733
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 5: actually sounds like a hard pivot but of the Jesse

734
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 5: Smalllleight story, because.

735
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 4: It can we're just all ready to believe it well.

736
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 5: Confirmed, it's confirmation by it, So one hundred percent is

737
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 5: confirmation bias, so like it fits the larger truth, it

738
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 5: fits this larger trend that we believe to be true. Therefore,

739
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 5: I sort of automatically will take the word of Jessee smole.

740
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 5: I will automatically take the word Juicy Smoleia, as David

741
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 5: Chappelle would say.

742
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 3: But I'll automatically take the word.

743
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 5: Of Data Nessel because she seems to be the adults

744
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 5: in the room in this interaction between If I'm being

745
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 5: asked to choose between Rashida Tlib's truth and Dana Nessil's truth,

746
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 5: I'm going to go with Data Nessel, and I will

747
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 5: smear someone and accuse them of anti Semitism.

748
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 7: The whole thing is just more evidence of the anti

749
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 7: Palestinian bias that she said exists in these institutions. But

750
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 7: here's how Nessl answered that.

751
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 4: Question.

752
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: Well, a couple things.

753
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 10: First of all, in twenty twenty two, when my opponent

754
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 10: accused me of being a groomer and a pedophile, everyone

755
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 10: understood that those were homophobic remarks because I happen to

756
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 10: be gay, right, I didn't have to explain it to people.

757
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 10: Rashida Talib is an individual who is well known for

758
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 10: making inflammatory, inflammatory and scendiary remarks that are anti Semitic

759
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 10: in nature. So this isn't the first time that we

760
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 10: would have heard these words out of her mouth. I

761
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 10: think it's very clear to everybody exactly what she was saying.

762
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 4: Hmmm, yeah, she's.

763
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 7: Like I don't like her. I feel like she could

764
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 7: have said that. So again, if we can put up

765
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 7: this next element. The real pushback I think that got

766
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 7: CNN Tech do this weak clarification was from the reporter

767
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 7: of the actual article. This is a reply that he

768
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 7: had to Jake Tapper said, I'm the reporter who interviewed

769
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,959
Speaker 7: Rishida Talib. She never said Nesselty did this because she's Jewish. Never,

770
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 7: you are spreading lies unquote. And the Metro Times felt

771
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 7: like they had to do a fact check, and so

772
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 7: they wrote up a new story a week later saying, no,

773
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 7: like she said what she said in our article.

774
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 4: It's the funniest fact check ever. It's like all they

775
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 4: did is.

776
00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 7: Like requote their own article, which which anybody else could

777
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 7: have done. And we can put up B eleven, which

778
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 7: is just so people have the specific context. Here's what

779
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 7: Talib said, I think people at the University of Michigan

780
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,479
Speaker 7: put pressure on her to do this, and she fell

781
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 7: for it. Talib says, I think President Ono and Board

782
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 7: of Regent members were very much heavy handed in this.

783
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 7: It had to come from somewhere. So that's in the

784
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 7: original article in which you have Dana Bash and also

785
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 7: Josh Kraushower or a Jewish insider. He wrote, you know,

786
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 7: we didn't receive a reply from Talib requesting clarity on

787
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 7: her comments about what she was referring to, because you

788
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 7: see a lot of people saying, okay, well, she says

789
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 7: that there's Nessel's office had Antie's Palestinian bias. It must

790
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 7: be coming from somewhere, and therefore what she's implying is

791
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 7: that it's actually because Nessel is Jewish. All you had

792
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 7: to do is read the next paragraph and you question

793
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 7: if you're actually curious gets answered.

794
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 4: Here's the actual answer that she.

795
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 7: Felt like she was pressured, and that the University of

796
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 7: Michigan did not pressure nessl when it came to Black

797
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 7: Lives Matter protesters or where it came to climate justice protesters,

798
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 7: and so there is a difference. These protesters were treated

799
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 7: differently the other difference to the University of Michigan pressure.

800
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 4: That's what Talib said.

801
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 5: It's amazing how from this entire sort of like cancel

802
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 5: culture woke journey that we've been on in the last decade,

803
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 5: how little lessons have been learned from applying overly broad definitions.

804
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 5: And that's why when we were talking about the cartoon,

805
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 5: it's like they have in their heads this own logic

806
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 5: that ties or shoot it to leab to actual like

807
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 5: militant groups, and I completely disagree with it.

808
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 3: It's not rooted in bigotry for everyone.

809
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 5: And there's just this reflex when it comes to accusations

810
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 5: of anti Semitism. And I would say the same thing,

811
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 5: like if we wanted to talk about on the right

812
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 5: with jumping to accusations of racism or misogyny or whatever,

813
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 5: that it's don't have their own logic. And the sad

814
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 5: part of that isn't missus dealing with the actual logic.

815
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 5: Like if you disagree with Rashida Talib's argument for Palestine,

816
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 5: deal with it on those terms to smear her as

817
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 5: an anti Semite. It's wildly kind of productive anyway, You're

818
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 5: not even like making progress for your own cause.

819
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

820
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 7: And the other irony, of course, is that you know,

821
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 7: Rashida Talib is not remotely like a supporter of violence,

822
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 7: like that's not like that's she's somebody who was it

823
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 7: was constantly making arguments for dignity, equality, coexistence, peace, that

824
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,399
Speaker 7: everybody should everybody should live together and value each other

825
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 7: as as human beings, and that that gets read as

826
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 7: being hamas and hesbala, which I think is proves the

827
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 7: depth of the anti Palestinian bias that she talks about there.

828
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 7: Jordan Sheridan, our buddy, had the reporter on his show

829
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 7: and had an interesting exchange with him. Let's roll Jordan's

830
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 7: interview here AT's be twelve.

831
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 11: You know the attorney general you've reported on her? Was

832
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 11: that surprising to you that she was a week later

833
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 11: insinuating that congresswoman to leave had somehow, I guess, was

834
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 11: inferring something about her being Jewish in her criticism.

835
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 12: I thought it was a bold time to attack Rashida

836
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 12: at a time when she just got attacked in a

837
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 12: very disgusting racist cartoon, and she did it that day,

838
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 12: so that surprised me. I have heard though, that Dana

839
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 12: Nessel has been has taken this Hamas attack last year

840
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 12: very seriously, and she's lost some friendships over it. But

841
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 12: it did surprise me that she would come out and

842
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 12: mention this on the day that that cartoon was published.

843
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 12: But also I was surprised that she used Rashida's words,

844
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 12: misrepresented them, and then attacked her based on that misrepresentation.

845
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 3: That surprised me.

846
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 11: I want to drill in on that because I think

847
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 11: she Congresswoman Talib used to phrase biases to refer to

848
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 11: the Attorney General, and I think that's what the Attorney

849
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 11: General was zeroing in. That's somehow Talib was inferring by

850
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 11: biases that she's Jewish. I don't take it that way,

851
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 11: and I'm Jewish, but you were saying from your reporting

852
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 11: Attorney General Nesso, who is Jewish. She has been, however,

853
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,959
Speaker 11: moved or affected by the Hamas attack and she's lost

854
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 11: friendship over it, which would indicate to me that her

855
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 11: charges against these pro Palestine protesters on student campuses, she

856
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 11: might feel strongly on this issue, which might then lead

857
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 11: to some bias, and she's charging them.

858
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 7: In more rigid ways than other types of protesters.

859
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 12: Yeah. Yeah, And to be clear, when I talked to

860
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 12: Rashida Tleeb what she was talking about, that bias. She

861
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 12: was talking about an anti Palestinian bias. That's across many institutions,

862
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 12: news organizations, companies, attorney general's offices, governor mansions. There's definitely

863
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 12: an anti Palestinian bias. And most of those institutions aren't

864
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 12: run by Jewish people. So when she said that, she's

865
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 12: referring to an anti Palestinian bias, not a bias because

866
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 12: somebody is Jewish.

867
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 4: Right, it was.

868
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 7: And so even when queued up by Jordan to say, well,

869
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 7: maybe there's something to it, because the reporter's like, no,

870
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 7: that's that's that's not what she was talking about.

871
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 3: And he was being fair to data Essel as well.

872
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, which yes.

873
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 7: And also so Jordan, as people might have put two

874
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 7: and two together, knows Data Nessel quite well because of

875
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 7: all of his hording on the Flint Water scandal, and

876
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 7: Dana Nessel ran on a promise to prosecute Rick Snyder

877
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 7: for that never managed to do so. Rogida Talib's kind

878
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 7: of first tweet was she couldn't manage you. Nessel couldn't

879
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 7: manage to prosecute Snyder for the Flint Water crisis, but

880
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 7: could manage to file charges against these Palestinian protesters, which

881
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 7: again not about religion.

882
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, absolutely so. Yeah, those super interesting from Jordan.

883
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 5: And I think you know this, Dana Nessel, Gretchen Whitmer coming.

884
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 5: I mean, it is just Michigan right now as a

885
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 5: swing state head of twenty twenty four is such a

886
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 5: weird brew of these like little dust ups over basically

887
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 5: like Rashida Talib and Dana Nessel and it's all getting

888
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 5: so nasty.

889
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, And this whole thing are to finish was just

890
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 7: just wild to watch unfold.

891
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 4: Which she didn't say that.

892
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 7: How are we here five days later asking for clarifications

893
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 7: and we reached out to Teleib's office. When you reached

894
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 7: out to Teleab's office, she's already said what she said.

895
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 5: I actually might add this to my journalism curriculum for

896
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 5: the students because it's such a perfect example of them

897
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 5: taking the word of a partisan director and recycling it

898
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 5: as total and the objective.

899
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 7: The nice part about this one for it for education

900
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 7: purposes is you don't have to debate the underlying facts,

901
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 7: like what she said is what she said, not how

902
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 7: you do journalism, And you can't even you don't have

903
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 7: to go to a place of Well, maybe she because

904
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 7: she didn't say why she was biased.

905
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 4: No, she said why they're biased.

906
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 7: They're biased because University of Michigan put pressure on them

907
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 7: to do this. Like she said that you agree or

908
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 7: disagree with that, that's what she said.

909
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 4: You don't need to it's not.

910
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 5: A statement of anti semitism, very clearly. Let's move on

911
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 5: to Kamala Harris, who this is the This is actually

912
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 5: another kind of strange media story and strange politics story

913
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 5: because Kamala Harris has been on the record, along with

914
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 5: Joe Biden, opposing or actually supporting eliminating the filibuster, so

915
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 5: opposing the continued upholding of the filibuster. Which Ryan, you'll

916
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 5: correct my history on this. This is about the turn

917
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 5: of the century. That the filibuster early nineteen hundreds, right,

918
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 5: we get the philibuster late eighteen hundreds.

919
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 7: It's very complicated depending on which philibuster you're taught there are.

920
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 4: The sixty vote.

921
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 7: Threshold comes in like World War World War One, because

922
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 7: they were trying to get weapons over for the war

923
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 7: and you had a couple of anti war You got

924
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 7: to get around them, folks, You got to get around them.

925
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 7: So you said, okay, well, we can end debate with

926
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 7: two thirds and then we're gradually like becomes sixty.

927
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: Anyway, it's not the Constitution.

928
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 7: It's definitely not anywhere near the Constitution, nor was it

929
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 7: intended to be part of the Constitution. They never imagined

930
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 7: ever that you would need a sixty percent vote to

931
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 7: get something past.

932
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 5: But it's a democratic It is now seen as an

933
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 5: absolute cornerstone of lower keysaur Republican government in the United States,

934
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 5: and Kamala Harris and the Biden administration have openly supported

935
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 5: getting rid of the filibuster since I think at least

936
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two. Kamala Harris was on a radio show

937
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 5: in Wisconsin yesterday on WPR It's called Wisconsin Today. She

938
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 5: told the host that she would support getting rid of

939
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 5: the filibuster to codify Roe v.

940
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 3: Wade.

941
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 5: That kicked off a firestorm. So let's start actually listening

942
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 5: to Kamala Harris.

943
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 3: Herself as well.

944
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 13: Within our reach to hold on to the majority in

945
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 13: the Senate and take back the House. And so I

946
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 13: would also emphasize that while the presidential election is extremely

947
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 13: important and dispositive of where we go moving forward, it

948
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 13: also is about what we need to do to hold

949
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 13: on to the Senate and win seats in the House.

950
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 13: That being said, I've been very clear, I think we

951
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 13: should eliminate the filibuster Farrow, and we need to get

952
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 13: us to the point where we fifty one votes would

953
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 13: be what we need to actually put back in law

954
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 13: the protections for reproductive freedom and for the ability of

955
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 13: every person and every woman to make decisions about their

956
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 13: own body and not have their government tell them what

957
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 13: to do.

958
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 5: So Joe Manchin responded to this by telling Manu Raju,

959
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 5: we can put this next element up on the screen

960
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 5: of CNN asked if he would back her for president,

961
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 5: Manu says, now that Harris has vowed to gut the

962
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 5: philibuster on this issue, Rowe Manchion said he wouldn't back

963
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 5: of a president.

964
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 3: Quote that ain't gonna happen.

965
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 5: I think that basically can destroy our country, and my

966
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 5: country is more important to me than any one person

967
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 5: or any one person's ideology.

968
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 3: I think it's the most horrible thing. Now.

969
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 5: Earlier, Manu noted that Mansin responded to Kamala Harris saying

970
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 5: she wants to quote gut the philibuster to codify Row.

971
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 5: As Manu put it, shame on her, said Manson. She

972
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 5: knows the filibuster, it's the holy grail of democracy is

973
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 5: the only thing that keeps us talking and working together.

974
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 5: If she gets rid of that, then this would be

975
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 5: the House on steroids.

976
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 3: Right.

977
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 5: I'm personally up two minds on the filibuster, this conversation

978
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 5: on the record, even with Ted Cruz, who has told me.

979
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 5: I'm sure he's told other people too, but I remember

980
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 5: having this conversation with him around twenty eighteen that he

981
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 5: brought himself from this position of the filibuster being the

982
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 5: holy girl of democracy to believing you should just get

983
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 5: rid of it because he believes the left is going

984
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 5: to get rid of the filibuster first, so you might

985
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 5: as well go down the doom spiral with the left

986
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,919
Speaker 5: and at least get your priorities out of the way

987
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 5: when you control Congress. And so it's kind of a

988
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 5: race to the bottom mentality. But it's very interesting because

989
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 5: Kirsten Cinema responded to Kamala Harris, let's put this on

990
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 5: the screen, CEA three.

991
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 3: She is right.

992
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 5: Cinema says, to state the supremely obvious, eliminating the philibuster

993
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 5: to codify Roe V. Wade also enables a future Congress

994
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 5: to ban abortion nationwide. What an absolutely terrible, short sighted

995
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 5: idea against Cinema is correct, but you would never this

996
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 5: would be I'm curious for your take on this, because

997
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 5: this is why a lot of people on the left

998
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 5: support getting rid of the filibuster. Republicans would in sort

999
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 5: of modern America at this point in time. I don't

1000
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 5: know if they could recover in a decade from banning

1001
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 5: all abortion nationwide. They just don't have the public support

1002
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 5: for that. There would be I mean, it would be

1003
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 5: significantly worse than Roe if suddenly every single state banned

1004
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 5: every every single kind of abortion. So they just the

1005
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 5: political will doesn't exist to do that in the country.

1006
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 5: So that would be I think the obvious rebuttal to

1007
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 5: Kirsten Cinema.

1008
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 3: But her point is correct.

1009
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 7: Her point is technically correct, and it has a history

1010
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 7: throughout the nineties and much of the two thousands. Inside

1011
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 7: the Democratic Coalition, one of the fiercest opponents of filibuster

1012
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 7: reform was actually pro choice groups, reproductive freedom groups that

1013
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 7: made that precise argument that Cinema is making that Republicans

1014
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 7: that we've got we've got Roe.

1015
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 4: In the Constitution. Supreme Court stands by it.

1016
00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 7: You know, why risk letting Republicans overturn or enact actually

1017
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 7: abortion restrictions. They were saying, you know, basically underneath Row,

1018
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 7: what Republicans would do if they had a majority and

1019
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 7: no filibuster is they would enact a lot of these

1020
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 7: the restrictions that they were enacting at the state levels

1021
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 7: that would pretend to sort of comply with Roe, but

1022
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 7: would actually you know, make abortion much more abortion access

1023
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 7: much more difficult. That changed the pro choice groups changed

1024
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 7: their position on that throughout the two thousands and came

1025
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 7: out for philibuster reform, saying, no, we actually need to

1026
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 7: go on offense on this, and they argued, don't take

1027
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 7: this from a position of defensiveness, like this is a

1028
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 7: winning issue for Democrats. Here are the polls, and they

1029
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 7: would show these Democrats polls showing the massive overwhelming support

1030
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 7: for abortion rights and Democratic leaders I don't want to

1031
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 7: talk about abortionist gross I don't believe you.

1032
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 4: I don't believe these numbers.

1033
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 7: But when it came to overturning the filibuster, they put

1034
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 7: a lot of pressure on people like Barbara Boxer and

1035
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 7: others who were holdouts on filibuster reform cinema is like

1036
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 7: wildly anachronistic on this making that point like she was,

1037
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 7: and she was making she made this point. There was

1038
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 7: a push to get rid of it, you know, as

1039
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 7: Democrats were losing their majority, when they still had a

1040
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 7: chance to do it, after Roe was overturned. And even

1041
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 7: then she said no, I'm not doing it, And she

1042
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 7: gave this reasoning because you could ban abortion. People are like, buddy,

1043
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 7: they Supreme Court just overturned Roe v.

1044
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 4: Wade.

1045
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 7: You're talking about a hypothetical banning of abortion. Like what

1046
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 7: are you talking about? Uh, good news is it doesn't

1047
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 7: matter what she thinks. Like she's done.

1048
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 4: We took her out.

1049
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 7: Ru Rubu Diego is the Democratic nominees looks like he's

1050
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 7: probably gonna win, and he has said that he would

1051
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 7: get rid of the filibuster for abortion protections. Uh, basically

1052
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 7: the entire Democratic caucus has said that at this point.

1053
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 3: And it really was unthinkable.

1054
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 5: I mean, this was a norm that Joe Mansion is

1055
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 5: very much This what Joe Manson said to Monty Roger

1056
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 5: yesterday would have been greeted with polite applause in the

1057
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 5: halls of the Capitol before I don't know, five years

1058
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 5: ago before the Trump era.

1059
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 3: Really this actually was him using the holy Grail.

1060
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 5: Term is so resonant because that actually really was the standard.

1061
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 3: People saw this genuinely as the Holy grail.

1062
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 7: Ish I was actually there for this fight, you know,

1063
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 7: so like in two thousand and nine, it really really

1064
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 7: kicked off, was Obamacare. Yeah, because Democrats lost their sixty

1065
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 7: vote threshold, and also the kind of liberal bloggisphere and

1066
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 7: I was writing for Huffing Post at the time, did

1067
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 7: not love the fact that Joe Lieberman and a handful

1068
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 7: of other centrist Democrats who gave them their sixtieth.

1069
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 3: Vote, Joe Biden.

1070
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 4: Joe Biden, Well, now he was vice president by then.

1071
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's true. Well but he's still pro tem, yes.

1072
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 4: No doubt, and he loved being up there.

1073
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 7: So the argument was, don't let these guys have this power.

1074
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 7: You've got fifty nine and sixty whatever. Then as their

1075
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 7: numbers dwindled, the pressure became even greater. Then as McConnell

1076
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 7: sort of blocking judicial nominations, that's what it was. And

1077
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 7: in twenty thirteen, finally there was enough pressure that there

1078
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 7: was reform on judicial nominations. So, you know, lower than

1079
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 7: Supreme Court level. Now that we got rid of it

1080
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 7: for Supreme Court as well, So there there's been that

1081
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 7: push for this long. But yeah, now Democrats are basically there,

1082
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 7: But it was it.

1083
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 5: Was it was relegated to like, well, that's a Ryan

1084
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 5: grim idea, and the Joe Biden's of the world would

1085
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 5: be horrified. They would be totally in the Mansion camp.

1086
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 5: But to have Mansion be sort of the last man

1087
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 5: standing with Kirsten Cinema on this, well, Joe freaking Biden

1088
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 5: is on that point, like, well, Joe Biden is the

1089
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 5: one who was.

1090
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 3: Saying, yeah, let's do it.

1091
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 5: It's a huge change, And it was because the Ryan

1092
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 5: grimsort won out.

1093
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 7: We packed a lot of punch back then we could,

1094
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 7: we could we can sometimes literally we could.

1095
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 4: Land a real blow.

1096
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 7: Actually sometimes literally uh that Harry Reid spokespersons every time

1097
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 7: we would do something in the Philbuster. Yeah, their phone

1098
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 7: lines would just like it absolutely lit up.

1099
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 4: Like it's really funny Grim.

1100
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 7: But but Harry Reid like saw that and saw and

1101
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 7: saw the energy and it actually kind of transformed him

1102
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 7: as a as a politician. The question of whether they

1103
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 7: win the Senate is I don't think is uh, optim optimistic,

1104
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 7: as as Harris put out new polls. You know, tester

1105
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 7: is really struggling in Montana and they need to win

1106
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 7: in Montana or Nebraska.

1107
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 3: Well, and will he cauc it? What does he think

1108
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 3: on the filibuster?

1109
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 7: Dan Well, we asked him, he said, uh, basically, he

1110
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 7: said he's pro choice, but would he get rid of

1111
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 7: the Philbus Act?

1112
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dan Osborn, did we not ask him that? Well,

1113
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 3: we asked him about row, but I don't remember.

1114
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 4: What we didn't ask him about the filibuster.

1115
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 5: I mean, well, this is where we started this, Black

1116
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 5: saying it's kind of bizarre. We know where Kamala Harris

1117
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 5: stands on the filibuster, and because she told this radio

1118
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 5: station the news, Joe Manchin and Kirsten Cinema reacted and

1119
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 5: Joe Manson is saying she's never going to get my

1120
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 5: endorsement now, and it's like we.

1121
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 3: Have known this. It's just such a weird little media cycle.

1122
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 5: It's not really anybody's fault, but it's just crazy how

1123
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 5: one comment can suddenly become a news cycle and can

1124
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 5: raise the issue again when it's not new at all.

1125
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 3: It's not new at all.

1126
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 7: But if Democrats are smart they'll just run on it

1127
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 7: like it's an amazingly popular issue.

1128
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 4: I will codify Roe.

1129
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 7: If you give me this House, Senate, and the White House,

1130
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 7: I'll do it.

1131
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 3: And then the filibuster is not like super popular.

1132
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 7: And the reason on principle that I've been against the

1133
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 7: filibuster is that imagine a world in which politicians ran

1134
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 7: on a promise, got elected on that promise, and then

1135
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 7: actually enacted it into law, and then voters decided whether

1136
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 7: or not they liked it.

1137
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 4: Imagine that crazy system. Instead, we have the.

1138
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 7: System where you run on a thing and then you

1139
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 7: get into Washington and you can point to these parliamentary

1140
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 7: obstacles or legislative option. Well, yeah, I ran on this,

1141
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 7: but we're not gonna.

1142
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 4: Actually do it.

1143
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 3: We should get both art.

1144
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 4: Let's have another culture war fight two years later.

1145
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 5: It'd be fun to do something with Bovart's probably against it, right, Yeah, yeah,

1146
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 5: it would be fun to We should do that because

1147
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 5: it obviously is like a huge looming issue for everyone.

1148
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 5: It could completely change the way that this legislation has done.

1149
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 14: So.

1150
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 5: On that note, speaking of government working, Brian, let's transition

1151
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 5: to this block about VISA and the Department of Justice,

1152
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 5: suing the company over alleged monopoly practices. This is D one,

1153
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 5: a tear shoot from CNBC. You can see the headline.

1154
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 5: Justice Department accuses Visa a debit network monopoly that affects

1155
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 5: price of quote nearly everything. The Biden DOJ continues its

1156
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 5: streak of actually partially their streak when it comes to Google.

1157
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 5: That was a lawsuit that the Biden DOJ continued from

1158
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 5: the Trump administration. A lot of energy in the anti

1159
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 5: trust base, we know, Ryan, but going after Visa for

1160
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 5: a lleged monopoly practices, that's an escalation in a good direction.

1161
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 4: Yeah. And if we can put D two up on

1162
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 4: the screen there.

1163
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 7: The filing is about like seventy seventy five pages, and

1164
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 7: it's actually quite clear. It's well written and lays out,

1165
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 7: you know, precisely why they believe that Visa is an

1166
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 7: illegal monopoly and how they've gone about building a building

1167
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 7: a mote.

1168
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 4: And they have, you know, obviously they have like on

1169
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 4: all these good ones.

1170
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 7: They got good emails and other internal memos where the

1171
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 7: criminals lay out their criminal scheme, where they stay like

1172
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 7: this is this is how we're building our mote. It's

1173
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 7: like billiing a mote is anti competitive. Sherman Act says,

1174
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 7: you can't do that, like, you just can't like that.

1175
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 7: We have decided that that markets, in order for them

1176
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 7: to remain competitive, need some government intervention to block monopolies

1177
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 7: from completely controlling them. So they go through the history

1178
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 7: here where you know, Visa controls I think sixty to

1179
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 7: seventy percent of that debit transactions. MasterCard then has like

1180
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:07,479
Speaker 7: twenty five.

1181
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 14: So it's not everything's fine, and that there were a

1182
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 14: couple of different things that happened over the last ten

1183
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 14: fifteen years that they lay out in this in this

1184
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 14: civil indictment basically civil complaint, which is one it's like,

1185
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 14: wait a minute, didn't we.

1186
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 7: Just have like PayPal and Venmo and all of these,

1187
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 7: like all this technology came about in the last fifteen years.

1188
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 7: How the heck is it that we still have this

1189
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 7: outdated technology that is still sucking seven billion dollars out

1190
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 7: of the economy every year. And that's like, wait, well,

1191
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 7: I don't pay when I swipe my debit card. Well, yes,

1192
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 7: you do pay, because the merchant that that you are

1193
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 7: buying from pays a fee to Visa and they passed

1194
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 7: that fee onto you, and so visa when all these

1195
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 7: new technologies were coming around saying uh oh, like, these

1196
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 7: are existential threats to us. They called Apple's app store

1197
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 7: or apples like Apple pay an existential threat. And the

1198
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 7: way that in a competitive, free market a company would

1199
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 7: respond to those threats is by delivering a better product

1200
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 7: at a lower price. That's how That's what you're going

1201
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 7: to hear from the Milton Freedman's.

1202
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 4: Of the world.

1203
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 7: Instead, they went out and cut deals with Apple, PayPal,

1204
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 7: all these other potential competitors and said, look, we'll just

1205
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 7: pay you to not get in our business, so you

1206
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 7: monopolize your thing over here, charge people exorbitant fees for

1207
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 7: these types of transactions. We'll charge people exorbitant fees for

1208
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 7: these types of transactions, and we'll pay each other because

1209
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 7: isn't it better for all making lots of money that

1210
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 7: we're siphoning off of consumers rather than competing with each

1211
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 7: other to offer a better product for less cost. And

1212
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 7: the end the competitors were like, hey, that's fine. This

1213
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 7: also goes to like quarterly.

1214
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 3: Which you can only get away with if you're huge and.

1215
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 7: Also right, but also the way our system is set

1216
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 7: up they call it, you know, quarterly capitalism where you're

1217
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 7: every quarter, you know, you're reporting your revenues to the market,

1218
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 7: and your your compensation as an executive is tied directly

1219
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 7: to those earnings because you're paid mostly in equity.

1220
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 4: The bulk your pays in equity.

1221
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 7: As as your revenues go up, share prices go up,

1222
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 7: your equity goes up. You become richer than you switch

1223
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 7: jobs like you don't care, like you're just trying to

1224
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 7: so for somebody, like a PayPal or another competitor, A

1225
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 7: potential competitive Visa might say, you know what, it's going

1226
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 7: to take us three years of investment and work to

1227
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 7: get to a place where we're competitive with Visa on

1228
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 7: this particular thing. That's a lot of quarters, that's a

1229
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 7: lot of quarterly conference calls where we're losing money and

1230
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 7: I want to leave here within two years, and I

1231
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 7: would like to leave here having made forty five million

1232
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 7: dollar as a vice president or whatever. And so they're like,

1233
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 7: and instead, Visa's offering me this amount of money right

1234
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 7: now if we don't compete against them, which will lead

1235
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 7: directly to a bonus for me, wouldn't that be nice?

1236
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 4: Let's do that instead.

1237
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 3: It's really aggressive from the Biden administration. I mean Visa.

1238
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 5: This is the senator from Delaware. By the way, This is,

1239
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 5: if you need it, the evidence that Joe Biden is

1240
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 5: not in charge of his own administration.

1241
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 3: You just know that they're going after Visa.

1242
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 7: Oh my god, if he found out about this, he's

1243
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 7: going to be so pissed. They used to call him

1244
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 7: a democrat from MBNA, which was the gigantic credit card

1245
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 7: company in Delaware.

1246
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 3: So maybe he wants them to go after Visa.

1247
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 7: Well they they got bought up, so they're basically Visa

1248
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 7: by now. But one thing that's interesting here, we're talking

1249
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 7: about democracy in the last block this sort of thing,

1250
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 7: because our democracy is so corrupted and bought off has

1251
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 7: to come from the Department of Justice or the FTC

1252
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 7: at this point. I spent a couple of years back

1253
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 7: in like twenty ten to.

1254
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 3: Eleven, Yeah, speaking of you being old.

1255
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 7: Thirteen, Yes, covering this intense fight over what are called

1256
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 7: swipe fees between basically merchants and these credit card companies

1257
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 7: back in like twenty eleven in Congress. It was it

1258
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 7: was the most It wasn't covered by the major press

1259
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 7: because nobody cares because it's just a fight between two major,

1260
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 7: major power players, but they were employing maybe over a

1261
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 7: thousand journalists spending hundreds of millions of dollars getting meet

1262
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 7: like lobbyists.

1263
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, dominating whoops, Yeah.

1264
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 7: Dominating the entire congressional legislative agenda, fighting over what you

1265
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 7: would set a swipe fee cap at or whether there

1266
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 7: would be a swipe feed cap which rolled out of

1267
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 7: what was called the Durban Amendment from Dodd Frank. The

1268
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 7: Derbtin Amendent actually makes an appear and in this lawsuit because

1269
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 7: the DOJ points out that the Durbin Amendment had a

1270
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 7: provision that said every debit card has to have two

1271
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 7: visa in somebody else that are able to use it,

1272
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 7: which would then allow merchants to choose say, Okay, you

1273
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 7: know what, Actually I don't want to take Visa because

1274
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 7: Visa charges these huge fees. So your card also has MasterCard,

1275
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 7: so I want to you can use MasterCard that's cheaper

1276
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 7: here at my store. And what Visa did to get

1277
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 7: around this new law that required these two things. They

1278
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 7: went to stores and they said, all right, we have

1279
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 7: a lot of what are called non competitive transactions where

1280
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 7: the person only has Visa, so you can only do

1281
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 7: VISA on those If you cut a deal with us,

1282
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 7: we're gonna make them fairly cheap. And the deal is

1283
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 7: you then have to use us for everything racket. If

1284
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 7: you don't cut a deal with us, then we're charging

1285
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 7: you a boat out of money for every one of

1286
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 7: those non competitive transactions where they have to use visa.

1287
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 7: So all these merchants were just totally jammed up, and

1288
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 7: they had to sign these agreements that lock them in

1289
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 7: and doj is saying the agreements are are illegal and

1290
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 7: the court auto oust all of these. I just want

1291
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 7: to read one quote from this if put up this

1292
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 7: third element here, so I think this is the most

1293
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 7: fun story that I've ever written. It's go back and

1294
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 7: read this one. You will absolutely die reading it.

1295
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 5: I want to do like a Stefan like it's got

1296
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 5: everything saxby Chandelis.

1297
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 4: Yes, it's amazing, it's incredible.

1298
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 3: No use of the word twit pick.

1299
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 7: Twit pick used to be a thing, and cups, cups.

1300
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 4: It's such a fun story.

1301
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,680
Speaker 7: But here's one of the most fun quotes from a

1302
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 7: moderate Democratic senator. He said to me, I'm surprised at

1303
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 7: how much of our time is spent trying to divide

1304
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 7: up the spoils between various economic interests.

1305
01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 4: I had no idea.

1306
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 7: I thought it would be focused on civil liberties, on

1307
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 7: education policy, energy policy, and so on. Senator, there's a

1308
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 7: senator that the fights down here can be put in

1309
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 7: two or three categories. The big greedy bastards against the

1310
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 7: big greedy bastards, the big greedy bastards against the little

1311
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:13,719
Speaker 7: greedy bastards, in some cases even the other little greedy

1312
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 7: bastards against the other little greedy bastards. What he's saying

1313
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 7: is that Congress is like a host that has shaped

1314
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:25,560
Speaker 7: itself to the parasites, and the parasites are the lobbyists.

1315
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 7: And so both parties are trying to figure out how

1316
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 7: much cash they can raise for their campaigns. So they

1317
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 7: go out and they tried to find things that two

1318
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 7: big industries will fight over. Sales tax on Amazon was

1319
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 7: like another one because so, and it's basically the same

1320
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:50,479
Speaker 7: way the mafia. Yes goes to a store and is like,

1321
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 7: nice store, you got here, seameus, something happened to it.

1322
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 7: They smash the windows up and then they pay them off,

1323
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 7: and then they don't smash the windows up anymore. So

1324
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 7: what Congress would do is deliberately we produce legislation that

1325
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 7: they think would be destructive to some powerful interest like Visa,

1326
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 7: and say, wow, you're making a lot of money on

1327
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 7: those swipe fees. We're going to put together a bill

1328
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,879
Speaker 7: that caps the amount that you're able to charge these merchants.

1329
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 7: And then they go to them, and then they go

1330
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 7: to Visa and they say, hire all of our people,

1331
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 7: give money to all of our campaigns, and maybe we

1332
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 7: won't do this. Then they go to the other greedy bastards.

1333
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 7: They go to Target, they go to Walmart, they go

1334
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 7: to Home Depot, and they say, don't you hate Visa

1335
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 7: the way that they American express They're really ripping you off,

1336
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 7: aren't they. We've got this bill that will stop them

1337
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 7: from ripping you off. And all you got to do

1338
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 7: is hire all of our friends and donate to all

1339
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 7: of our campaigns. And then they will drag that out

1340
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 7: for years. That fight over the Durban Amendment is still

1341
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 7: going on today.

1342
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,000
Speaker 5: That Senator's heart is absolutely in the right place, but

1343
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 5: it is such a naive like approach to government.

1344
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 3: That is of course what this is.

1345
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 5: This is Vegas, baby, This is Vegas with seventies.

1346
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 3: That is our economy.

1347
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, so you kind of have to have the DOJ

1348
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:14,759
Speaker 7: do it, and luckily, but usually the DOJ won't. Usually

1349
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 7: they won't, right because of the revolving door.

1350
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,679
Speaker 5: It's not necessarily that they're being lobbied, it's that they.

1351
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 3: Want to lobby.

1352
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1353
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 7: Do you know how much lobbying there was against Jonathan

1354
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 7: Canter getting into the DOJ to run the antitrust policy

1355
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:27,320
Speaker 7: of the vitaminstry Reid.

1356
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 5: Hoffman is openly lobbying Kamala Harris right now, not as

1357
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 5: a registered lobbyist, but just as a rich dude with

1358
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,640
Speaker 5: a lot of power in public platforms to get rid

1359
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 5: of Lena conm The.

1360
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:38,719
Speaker 7: Good news is during the New Deal, they did pass

1361
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 7: this law that says you can't do this, and so

1362
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 7: the White House at least until the Supreme Court says

1363
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 7: they can't enforce laws that weren't passed within the last

1364
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 7: five minutes, they can still they can still enforce laws

1365
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 7: that are on the books. We'll see if they feel

1366
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 7: like it good for them. All right, what well this

1367
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 7: will do lower the price of everything.

1368
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 3: Let's move on to this port strike Ryan prices.

1369
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 5: Just speaking of prices, we can put this first element

1370
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 5: up on the screen, and this is from the load

1371
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 5: Star USMX in Isla and claims Blame Game. As strike

1372
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 5: deadline looms, can you break this one down for us Ryan.

1373
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 5: We're covering a lot of Ryan Grim topics today, which

1374
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 5: is great because it's always educational and enlightening what's happening

1375
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 5: with this contract.

1376
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:26,360
Speaker 7: First of all, credit to this shipping trade publication for

1377
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 7: claims Blame Games.

1378
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:31,960
Speaker 3: That's funny, It is New York Post worthy.

1379
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:33,760
Speaker 7: It is good, and you don't see that from trade

1380
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 7: pubs very often. The reason we're using a trade publication

1381
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 7: article here is because there's been very little mainstream coverage

1382
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 7: of what's going on here. If the International Longshoreman Union

1383
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:50,759
Speaker 7: and this conglomerate of basically dudes that run ports don't

1384
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 7: come to a new contract by October first, the ports

1385
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 7: are going to shut down all along the East Coast

1386
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 7: and the Gulf. So as a result of that, already

1387
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 7: lots of shippers are moving their shipments over to the

1388
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 7: West coast. Uh and as the trade press talks about,

1389
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 7: a lot of kind of holiday merchants moved their orders

1390
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 7: way up like they're already getting in their Christmas tree,

1391
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 7: their artificial Christmas trees and all the other junk that

1392
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 7: we're going to buy buy for each other in the

1393
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:24,759
Speaker 7: holiday season so that the shelves will be stocked. Because

1394
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 7: the business side here is, according to the union, offering

1395
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 7: utterly paltry wages and then lying publicly about the way

1396
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 7: that they're kind of doing the math and saying, oh,

1397
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 7: look at this huge increase or giving. And so they

1398
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 7: haven't met in months and we're at an October first deadline.

1399
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 7: The White House has said it will not use its

1400
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 7: federal power to kind of force these workers back to work.

1401
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 7: If you remember, that's the same law that they use

1402
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,560
Speaker 7: to force the railroad basically force a contract on the

1403
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 7: rail workers a couple of years ago. They could do

1404
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 7: that again when it comes to this one. And it

1405
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 7: seems like the bosses here are banking on the fact

1406
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 7: that the White House will do that. They're saying, we

1407
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 7: don't need to negotiate with you because in October first,

1408
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 7: port shutdown would be such an absolute political crisis.

1409
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 4: They're probably right that the White House will actually.

1410
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 7: Does pete boota judge, because it's boota judge who is

1411
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 7: basically responsible for kind of being the secretariat who is

1412
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 7: in between this and trying to get to a deal.

1413
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 7: Does boota judge want this to.

1414
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 4: Be this thing?

1415
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 7: So the unions mean to want to like, just give

1416
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 7: us a decent deal and we'll come back to work.

1417
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 3: Lots of leverage.

1418
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 7: Now, one thing they could possibly do is kind of

1419
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:49,719
Speaker 7: force them back to work until after the election, which

1420
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 7: is sort of what they did with the rail workers

1421
01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 7: if you remember then. And what you can do is

1422
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 7: you can force them into mediation. So I tend to

1423
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 7: think that they're not going to let strike happen October first.

1424
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 7: But according to their current statements, they are now well

1425
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 7: I don't know what kind of brinksmanship that is or not,

1426
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 7: but the workers do not seem like they're in a

1427
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 7: position to get rolled over here.

1428
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 5: And what can so actual question here what Biden's power

1429
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 5: hypothetically would be in these negotiations.

1430
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 3: It probably looks what we saw. It's pretty surreal.

1431
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 7: It's pretty serious power because it involves the transportation and

1432
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 7: the cornerstone economic interests. There as a Taft Hartley Act

1433
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 7: that allows, you know, significant intervention from the US not.

1434
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 3: Just allows, but sort of incentivizes for the federal government

1435
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 3: in case.

1436
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,600
Speaker 7: Of and and the and the bosses have relied on

1437
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 7: that for you know, since the forties or whatever to say,

1438
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,599
Speaker 7: you know, we don't you can't go on strike because

1439
01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,040
Speaker 7: the government's going to come in and stop you. But

1440
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 7: I think they took they took a lot of heat

1441
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 7: for that, for forcing that contract on rail workers, and

1442
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 7: they certainly would rather not have the political optics of

1443
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 7: being anti union right in October before the election.

1444
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1445
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 5: Well, and you know, it's funny because this was sort

1446
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,799
Speaker 5: of a parallel situation to what Mike Johnson was facing

1447
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 5: this week with the government shutdown on the eve of

1448
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 5: the election that he knew Republicans were going to be

1449
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,879
Speaker 5: blamed for, which is why he and sort of Republican

1450
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:34,160
Speaker 5: establishment ended up siding with the signing with Democrats and

1451
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 5: brokering a deal on the Save Act and doing this

1452
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 5: three month stop gap that would end in December, which

1453
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 5: is certainly going to result as freedom Coccus types are saying,

1454
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 5: in a big spending package right before Christmas, a nice

1455
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:48,760
Speaker 5: little Christmas present, because nobody wants a shutdown over Christmas.

1456
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,639
Speaker 5: We've seen it before, of course, but nobody really wants it.

1457
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 5: And Mike Johnson's logic explicitly was that we are not

1458
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 5: risking a shutdown, shutting down the government as Trump wanted

1459
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 5: over the Say Act, which is basically creates protections so

1460
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 5: that you can't have non citizen voting in federal elections.

1461
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,719
Speaker 5: Shutting down the government over that would not be politically viable,

1462
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 5: politically worth it. So basically the leverage was with the

1463
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 5: people who were saying like Freedom Coucus had no leverage

1464
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,679
Speaker 5: in this situation. And the billionaires that are being called

1465
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 5: out by these union leaders don't really have leverage in

1466
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 5: this situation because all the money in the world that

1467
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 5: they can give to Joe Biden isn't going to offset

1468
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 5: how serious the threat to the election would be. If

1469
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:37,600
Speaker 5: we remember back to the the real uprising after what

1470
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 5: happened in East Palestine, this was the level of political

1471
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 5: crisis for Biden and Buddha Judge was incredibly high. And

1472
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:50,720
Speaker 5: to have that literally weeks before a presidential election, I mean,

1473
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:52,920
Speaker 5: they have a pretty good case going to the Biden administration.

1474
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 8: Here.

1475
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 7: It's an interesting test for Mayor Pete Secretary Pete see

1476
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 7: to see if you can get a deal here. And

1477
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 7: I wanted to cover this even though nobody else is

1478
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 7: is that there's no, they don't pay any price by

1479
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:08,759
Speaker 7: forcing workers back to work.

1480
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:11,679
Speaker 4: If nobody knows it's happening in the first place.

1481
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

1482
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 7: If if nobody, if nobody's talking about it, then the

1483
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 7: White House could actually much more easily just jam them

1484
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 7: and so you know what nobody's looking just go back

1485
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:23,800
Speaker 7: to work.

1486
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 5: Well, so, Steve Lemmar, the President and CEO of the

1487
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 5: American Association of Footwear and Apparel, makes a very very

1488
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 5: very good case to Biden. He says, our members, if

1489
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 5: they can get their product to market at all during

1490
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 5: the critical holiday shopping season, will only be able to

1491
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:39,720
Speaker 5: do so with massive delays at an exorbitant cost. Exporters,

1492
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 5: particularly agricultural exporters, will literally see their product wrought on

1493
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 5: the docks or in the rail yards. And just when

1494
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 5: inflation has started to come under control, American families will

1495
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 5: face the surgeon prices and product shortages not seen since

1496
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 5: the pandemic.

1497
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:55,360
Speaker 7: It would be a disaster, Yeah, absolute disaster, no doubt

1498
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 7: about it. And they say that for every day that

1499
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 7: the ports are shut down, it takes about five days

1500
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 7: to clear that backlog. So even if there was only

1501
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 7: a ten day strike, you then you're talking about a

1502
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:16,040
Speaker 7: two month backlog, and exactly just as the federal reservest.

1503
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 3: Go, it's already a problem.

1504
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 7: Yeah. Oh, by the way, I was gone, so I

1505
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 7: didn't get through my victory lap. I was correct on

1506
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 7: the half point cut.

1507
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 3: I know.

1508
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 5: I saw that right away. I was like, this is perfect.

1509
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 5: That's why I didn't guess.

1510
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 4: But you know, it was trading in the market.

1511
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 5: A great call. Yeah you could have. I'm sure that

1512
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 5: there were predicted bets on that.

1513
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 4: Oh, the whole market is a predictive.

1514
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 3: That's true at this point.

1515
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 5: Again, it's all Vegas. It's all Vegas all the time.

1516
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 5: On a much bleaker note, let's turn to the horrible

1517
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 5: case of Marcel's Williams, who was executed in Missouri at

1518
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,760
Speaker 5: six ' ten pm yesterday. Now, this case goes back

1519
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 5: to nineteen ninety eight, the August murder of a Saint

1520
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:03,800
Speaker 5: Louis Post Dispatch report Felicia Gail. Felicia Gale's family believed

1521
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 5: that Williams was guilty but opposed his execution. Was not

1522
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 5: at his execution, which is typical of families will often

1523
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 5: go to the viewing of the execution. Now, there was

1524
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 5: no forensic evidence that ever tied Williams to this crime

1525
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 5: through circumstantial evidence, but even that had been contaminated. This

1526
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 5: is a very typical death penalty case where there's been

1527
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 5: sort of legal back and forth for literally decades. At

1528
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 5: this point, there's been evidence in both directions there's been

1529
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 5: a man with poor legal representation, as we've seen in

1530
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 5: filings that things just ended up getting botched.

1531
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 3: Or poorly ordered or poorly argued along the way.

1532
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 5: The state Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court

1533
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 5: both rejected last minute please for Williams.

1534
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:57,800
Speaker 3: Top from Williams.

1535
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:01,519
Speaker 5: Camp, but this is I mean, the prosecutor from his

1536
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 5: two thousand and three convictions, so five years after this

1537
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 5: alleged murder did not support the execution. The family of

1538
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 5: the victim did not support the execution. There were stays

1539
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,799
Speaker 5: granted to Williams back in twenty fifteen and twenty seventeen,

1540
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 5: also very typical of death penalty cases. But he was

1541
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 5: executed yesterday in Missouri.

1542
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 7: And the Supreme Court, the Federal Supreme Court, by six

1543
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 7: to three let the execution go through. Obviously, the three

1544
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:31,080
Speaker 7: liberal justices would have stayed the execution, the six conservative

1545
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 7: ones went for it. He converted to Islam while in

1546
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 7: prison Khalifa ibin Rayford Daniels was his new adopted name.

1547
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:42,200
Speaker 4: Was really I don't think we've talked about the death penalty.

1548
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 7: The part that has always flumixed me about conservative support

1549
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 7: the death penalty is that conservatives are quick to point

1550
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 7: to all of the problems with government inefficiency. Yes, grew ups,

1551
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 7: yes everywhere, whether it's the regulation of the markets. They say,

1552
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 7: you know, like there's government bureaucrats, they're going to screw

1553
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 7: things up. Yet in a life for death situation, they're

1554
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 7: willing to let these county bureaucrats, you know, the same

1555
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 7: people that populate the show like Parks and rec like.

1556
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 7: Let those people handle the evidence, handle the prosecutions with

1557
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 7: immense amount of power, very little oversight, and when it

1558
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 7: comes to life and death, you can't make mistakes. And

1559
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 7: from the conservative perspective, like governments are making mistakes all

1560
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 7: the time.

1561
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 4: And in this one.

1562
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,679
Speaker 7: There was the defense argued that there was also racial

1563
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 7: bias because a prosecutor struck I think six of seven

1564
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:52,599
Speaker 7: black people from the jury pool, so there was only

1565
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:54,599
Speaker 7: one black person in the jury pool. And he said,

1566
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 7: and he specifically said, I struck one of them because

1567
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:01,280
Speaker 7: he looked too much like Marcellus. It's like, well, I

1568
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 7: think you just admitted what's going on here, but it

1569
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 7: wasn't enough. So are you Yeah, where do you come

1570
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 7: down on that question?

1571
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 5: This issue turns me into a bleeding heart like campus leftist.

1572
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 5: It was one of the earliest issues that animated me politically.

1573
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 5: So I'm the worst person for a show called Counterpoints.

1574
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 3: Next to you on this.

1575
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:25,760
Speaker 7: Well, at least you're consistent on the whole pro life

1576
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 7: thinges it.

1577
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 5: It makes me so angry, and your point about bureaucracy

1578
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:33,679
Speaker 5: is such an important one. I just have a plain

1579
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 5: moral opposition to the state carrying out I mean, I

1580
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 5: think self defense is a legitimate, you know, explanation to

1581
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 5: take another life ers. I think we all mostly agree

1582
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 5: on that legitimate cases of self defense. I don't think

1583
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 5: the state has a right to take life like this, nor.

1584
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:49,719
Speaker 3: Do I think it should.

1585
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 5: I think the drugs are incredibly problematic and basically forms

1586
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 5: of torture that we're also asking bureaucrats to come to

1587
01:23:56,080 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 5: conclusions on an experiment with humans. On ze Jelani has

1588
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:04,519
Speaker 5: already blasted out a great piece on this particular case

1589
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,719
Speaker 5: as sort of a hook in his subsect The American Saga,

1590
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 5: his headline is, yes, innocent people have been executed, but

1591
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:12,880
Speaker 5: the death penalty is also slowly being phased out. Both

1592
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 5: points absolutely true. But if we're focusing on what you

1593
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 5: just mentioned about conservatives jumping to support the state executions

1594
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 5: and death penalty cases despite bureaucracy being an abject disaster

1595
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 5: that is often politically weaponized and just incompetent, Z points

1596
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,680
Speaker 5: out in his piece this number that is astounding, but

1597
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 5: it's you again. You can look all of this up.

1598
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 5: In the past five decades, at least two hundred people

1599
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 5: who've been executed have actually been exonerated after they were executed.

1600
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:51,800
Speaker 5: Two hundred people in the last five decades. So that's

1601
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 5: not just cases that are murky. This case is absolutely murky.

1602
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:55,760
Speaker 3: This is not a.

1603
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:58,880
Speaker 5: Clean cut case. It has gone fairly through the legal system.

1604
01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:01,360
Speaker 5: I don't need to adjudicate whether he's guilty or not,

1605
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,000
Speaker 5: because my position.

1606
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:04,719
Speaker 3: Is just as wrong.

1607
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:08,559
Speaker 5: But it's not a clear cut case. And we have

1608
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 5: seen two hundred times that after people have died, at

1609
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 5: least two hundred times, because there are case is probably

1610
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:16,960
Speaker 5: still to come just out of the last five decades,

1611
01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 5: but two hundred times where people are exonerated, exonerated, black

1612
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:24,000
Speaker 5: and white, clear cut exonerations after being executed.

1613
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 3: So it's just that's.

1614
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 5: One, I think, very obvious argument against the death penalty

1615
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 5: that should give many people who are distrustful of government pause.

1616
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 5: But just the stunning figure, stunning, stunning, And maybe it's

1617
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:42,599
Speaker 5: because of technological advances that, as Zed points out, these

1618
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 5: trends are moving in the other direction. But we still

1619
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 5: have a spate of executions scheduled for what the next

1620
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 5: couple of weeks. There's a good Associated Press story on this.

1621
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:53,919
Speaker 5: I mean, it's absolutely still happening.

1622
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, a huge like upticking and coming over the next

1623
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 7: couple of weeks. Totally wild. But if we could put

1624
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:06,200
Speaker 7: up f F two here, which is a quote from

1625
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 7: this local article, just to give you the background here,

1626
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:11,600
Speaker 7: you know, face face with it, so face with the

1627
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 7: DNA evidence and other new information. Williams case, Saint Louis

1628
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 7: County prosecuting attorney Wesley Bell, who defeated Corey bush Uh

1629
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:21,719
Speaker 7: sought to toss out the conviction on numerous grounds, including

1630
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 7: the results of the DNA testing and constitutional violations during

1631
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:26,879
Speaker 7: the jury selection process.

1632
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,280
Speaker 4: So this was this was the prosecutor's office.

1633
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 7: Saying that after reviewing the way that things were handled,

1634
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 7: they would they wanted to see this tossed out. It

1635
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:42,679
Speaker 7: was so poorly handled that when then when they took

1636
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 7: the knife to get it tested, the only DNA they

1637
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 7: found on it was a bunch of assistant prosecutors who've

1638
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:51,600
Speaker 7: been who had been improperly handling the evidence. And so

1639
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 7: once that emerged, the Williams had no way of getting

1640
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:00,759
Speaker 7: out of you know, no way of kind of moving innocence,

1641
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 7: and said, look, I'll take life, I'll take life, just

1642
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 7: don't kill me.

1643
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 4: And the family was fine with that.

1644
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 7: Prosecutor signed off, but the Missouri governor and the judges

1645
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:18,600
Speaker 7: insisted on moving forward with it.

1646
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:21,759
Speaker 4: And so we can put up this next vo here.

1647
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:26,360
Speaker 7: This is a footage of more than a million petitions

1648
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 7: asking for Williams's execution to be stayed being delivered to

1649
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 7: the Missouri Governor's office, evidence of the just intense amount

1650
01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 7: of a public opposition to this state's sanctioned killing, and

1651
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:46,759
Speaker 7: the governor just decided to go forward with it anyway.

1652
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 5: Now, there was a moment on Jake Tapper's show that

1653
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:56,200
Speaker 5: happened just last night where Marcel's Williams attorney, Innocent Project.

1654
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 5: Innocence Project attorney heard the news from the Supreme Court

1655
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 5: right before the interview began.

1656
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 3: Let's roll this element.

1657
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 1: Have you spoken to Marcellus today?

1658
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 15: The team has spoken with him today and actually we

1659
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 15: just spoke with.

1660
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:12,720
Speaker 3: Him momentarily ago.

1661
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:16,639
Speaker 15: We actually just got news that the US Supreme Court

1662
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:18,719
Speaker 15: has denied a stay.

1663
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:23,519
Speaker 1: The US Supreme Court has denied a stay. That's horrible news.

1664
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 1: That means that that's it. That's the end of that.

1665
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:27,840
Speaker 1: There's just nothing else that can be done unless the

1666
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: governor has a change of heart, which seems unlikely.

1667
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:36,640
Speaker 15: That is correct under what we have currently from the

1668
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 15: law and the governor tonight, Missouri will execute an innocent

1669
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 15: man and they will do it even though the prosecutor

1670
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 15: doesn't want him to be executed, the jurors who sentenced

1671
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 15: him to death don't want him executed, and the victims

1672
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:53,559
Speaker 15: themselves don't want him executed. That is what will be

1673
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 15: the state of justice tonight in Missouri.

1674
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: Why do you think that the governor or the state

1675
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, why did they deny him climency? Why have

1676
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:04,240
Speaker 1: they not stayed this execution?

1677
01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 15: And what we hear time and time again, is this

1678
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 15: argument of finality.

1679
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 3: It's too late. Things should have been brought before.

1680
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 15: We you know, things have been heard before, but they've

1681
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 15: never been heard with this evidence. They've never been heard

1682
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:22,759
Speaker 15: with what this prosecutor knows and concedes to that mister

1683
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 15: Williams had an unfair trial, that the prosecutor admits that

1684
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 15: he struck jurors based on their race. But we have

1685
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 15: a system that values finality over fairness, and this is

1686
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:36,479
Speaker 15: the result that we will get from that.

1687
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 7: Yeah, and at minimum, you would think that if you

1688
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 7: really want to get it right, and you really have

1689
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 7: got the evidence and you can prove the trials unfair,

1690
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:48,040
Speaker 7: trium again.

1691
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:50,600
Speaker 4: Triump fairly well.

1692
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 3: But this is what's so I think this is so.

1693
01:29:54,680 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 5: Partially harrowing and unsettling about these really content, very modern

1694
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:03,600
Speaker 5: death penalty cases, is that he has been tried so

1695
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 5: many times and it is still a question mark. I mean,

1696
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 5: you know, like we have gone through this, This man

1697
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 5: has sat so many appeals, you mean, right, right, Like

1698
01:30:13,400 --> 01:30:16,439
Speaker 5: this has been litigated over and over again for decades,

1699
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 5: and the family has had to put up with it

1700
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 5: for decades. The victims family has had to put up

1701
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:27,559
Speaker 5: with it for decades, and it's just incredible how you

1702
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 5: can keep going and going. This is I'm reading from

1703
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 5: Saint Louis and pr This is just a little bit

1704
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 5: more details on what happened, because it was a lot

1705
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:42,880
Speaker 5: of kind of back and forth. They write, Williams had

1706
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 5: always maintained he had nothing to do with the murder

1707
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:47,920
Speaker 5: of Gail. Police would find some of Gail's possessions in

1708
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:50,560
Speaker 5: a car that belonged to Williams, and he pawned a

1709
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:54,320
Speaker 5: laptop belonging to her husband, but no forensic evidence like DNA,

1710
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 5: hair or fingerprints ever tied him to the scene. He

1711
01:30:57,200 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 5: was convicted largely on the testimony of a former girlfriend,

1712
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 5: Laura Asorrow, and a jailhouse informant named Henry Cole.

1713
01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 3: I believe Laura. Yeah. Both of these witnesses have since

1714
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:07,800
Speaker 3: passed away.

1715
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 5: That's how long this case has been, pinging back and

1716
01:31:10,479 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 5: forth through appeals, going on for and to end with

1717
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:17,680
Speaker 5: still again a question mark. The case study is an

1718
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 5: argument in and of itself against the death penalty, like

1719
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 5: the way that this has all been prosecuted for decades.

1720
01:31:23,400 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 5: There are five executions that are said to happen in

1721
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,280
Speaker 5: the span of a week The Associated Press has the story.

1722
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:33,439
Speaker 5: The first one was on Friday in South Carolina. There's

1723
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 5: another one Texas, Alabama, and Oklahoma, and according the Associated Press,

1724
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 5: it's the first time in more than twenty years that

1725
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:43,839
Speaker 5: five executions nationally have been held within seven days.

1726
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 3: So I think that is right to point out.

1727
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:47,759
Speaker 5: And I think, to some extent, as we were mentioning earlier,

1728
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 5: DNA evidence probably accounts for a lot of this, which

1729
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 5: is such a sad statement in and of itself.

1730
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 3: But right now, this week five.

1731
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, we didn't hear anything, by the way, from Kamla

1732
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:04,439
Speaker 7: Harris on this, who when she was district's attorney, often

1733
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:08,599
Speaker 7: used the argument in exoneration cases that well, you may

1734
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 7: have a good point there, but you missed the filing deadline,

1735
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:17,280
Speaker 7: or you didn't make this claim of poor council previously

1736
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 7: when you could have. It's like, well, of course you

1737
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 7: didn't because you had poor counsel. So, yeah, her hands

1738
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,040
Speaker 7: are not clean on this by any stretch.

1739
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean there's obviously racial variables, but also

1740
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:33,519
Speaker 5: class variables, incredible class variables in the new class conscious

1741
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 5: conservative movement. To consider there you go, so bleak note

1742
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 5: to end on, but an important one, Ryan, Glad.

1743
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 3: You got back safely.

1744
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 7: Good time in Doha, Ryan Grim in the Middle.

1745
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:47,200
Speaker 5: East, I would be a little nervous. You've done some

1746
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:51,240
Speaker 5: your reporting is too good. It's too good for you

1747
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 5: to be perfectly calm.

1748
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:54,639
Speaker 4: But it was totally fine.

1749
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, you're speaking for Georgetown.

1750
01:32:57,200 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, was at a Georgetown conference and did a couple

1751
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:03,080
Speaker 7: of interviews some stories that hopefully will pan out in

1752
01:33:03,080 --> 01:33:04,000
Speaker 7: the next couple of weeks.

1753
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:05,840
Speaker 3: Well, we'll be watching for those.

1754
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 5: We will actually be back here before I think next

1755
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:12,479
Speaker 5: Tuesday show because the debate is on our next Wednesday show.

1756
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 3: Because the debate is on too.

1757
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:14,559
Speaker 4: Wow, I guess I will be.

1758
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:17,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's coming right up. I'm feeling for Sager

1759
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:20,719
Speaker 5: on Monday. But then Tuesday we'll all be here breaking points.

1760
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 5: Cinematic Universe.

1761
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:22,920
Speaker 4: That's right.

1762
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll bring some Ghosts.

1763
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 4: No Friday show this week.

1764
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 3: No Friday show this week. Sorry about that, producer Mac.

1765
01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:32,840
Speaker 5: We should also clarify that we have zero paid sponsorship

1766
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 5: with Ghosts. We just really like it. But Ryan's been

1767
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:41,000
Speaker 5: drinking coffee, so I don't know how it could possibly

1768
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:42,599
Speaker 5: be terrible for you when it has one hundred percent

1769
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:43,599
Speaker 5: of four daily vitamins.

1770
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:46,680
Speaker 3: There you go anyway, Thank you so much for tuning in.

1771
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:49,719
Speaker 5: Breakingpoints dot com for the full version of this show

1772
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 5: right away to your inbox early, and it doesn't get

1773
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 5: cut up into a little clips, so it's a nice little,

1774
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 5: nice little park breakingpoints dot com to subscribe. Thanks everyone

1775
01:33:58,000 --> 01:33:59,679
Speaker 5: for tuning in, all right, see you next week.

1776
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:04,439
Speaker 10: M