1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we are here to 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: enchant you in this very special episode Stuff You Should Know, 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: which we'd like to also call the Facts of Life too. 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean alchemy. I think a very appropriate topic, 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: taking something mundane and turning it into something fantastic. 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess we are kind of alchemists in 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: that sense. Where were you talking about a different podcast? 10 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: No, no, no, let's talk about what but I aim 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: to accomplish today. 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: Hey man, not only do you aim it, you are 13 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: aimed for it. You hit it right on the head. 14 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, alchemy, Baby, let's do it. 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: What is the attempted a compliment? Yeah? Well yeah, when 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: we're talking about alchemy or alchemists, for me at least, 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: and I would assume most people kind of conjures images 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 2: of like some magician wearing like a robe with stars 19 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: and moons on it, maybe even a pointy hat to match. Sure, 20 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 2: he's lit by candlelight, he's in a strange little laboratory. 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: He's doing all sorts of weird stuff to basically create 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: some sort of magical potion or do something like that. Right, 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: if you know a little more about it, maybe you 24 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: think of Charlatans who trick people into investing in their 25 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: alchemical schemes of turning you know, lead into gold. But 26 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 2: it turns out that there's a lot more to it 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 2: than I ever realized, and the people involved were. 28 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: Not. 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: They were a lot more interesting and a lot less 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: dumb and fraudulent than history is kind of cast the mass. 31 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I always thought of alchemy as just from what 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: I knew as a youngster, which was just turning something 33 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: like a boring metal into gold, like you were talking about. 34 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: But it is I think interesting that modern science now 35 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: looks back and say and says, hey, you know what 36 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: I mean. Sure, it was a lot of bunk and 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: bs involved, but some of the foundations of modern chemistry 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: were there, even though that wasn't their intention. Really. 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can also make a pretty strong case 40 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: that the alchemists were the ones who laid the groundwork 41 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: for the scientific method. 42 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. 43 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: Wow. What's cool about it too, is that, you know, 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 2: the Europeans, the medieval European you know, monks and sages 45 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: and scholars are the ones you typically think of at 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: least in the West when you think of alchemy, but 47 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: it's a I don't want to say worldwide, but it 48 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: really kind of ties together traditions from a bunch of 49 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: different parts of the world into a mad pursuit for 50 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 2: immortality and glory. Yeah, tots, So we should say that 51 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: you can kind of trace the Western tradition of alchemy 52 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: the Europeans as you think of it, all the way 53 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: back to Egypt. Egypt was like the starting point for 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: the Western tradition, but Egypt even seemed to get it 55 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: from other places. Specifically, even back before Egypt, it seems 56 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: like China and India were possibly in on the pursuit 57 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: for immortality, which seems to be the thing that initially 58 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: gave alchemy like its birth. 59 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they may have called it like, you know, 60 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: the art or something like that, or maybe maybe you know, 61 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: some other word that they had that meant, you know, 62 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: some sort of transformation might be taking place. The word 63 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: alchemy itself was first used in Arabic and then eventually 64 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: French and English and medieval times. But yeah, I think 65 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: it's interesting that it followed that route, and it's also 66 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: not surprising that, you know, China was one of the 67 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: first to get involved in something like this, because I 68 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: feel like any time we're talking about ancient practices, China 69 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: always seems to be sort of leading the way in 70 00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 1: one way or the other. 71 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: Indeed, one of the reasons China was so heavy into 72 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: it was because the early alchemical like pursuits or purposes 73 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: were to create an elixir for immortality. The reason they 74 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: cared so much about that was because the country had 75 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: a huge Taoist population, and Daoism is very much interested 76 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 2: in achieving immortality one way or another. And so China 77 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: and it's alchemists put together mercury, arsenic sulfur and said, here, 78 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: drink this a lot of times. And surely a lot 79 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 2: of people died from drinking those things, right, I mean, 80 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 2: you can't drink a concoction of mercury and still, you know, 81 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: just wipe your mouth with the back of your hand 82 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: and walk off, like time to get to work, you know. 83 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure there were some people that 84 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: suffered under alchemy experiments over time. But they also, you know, 85 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: on the other side, and this is sort of the 86 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: the plus and minus side of some of these experiments, 87 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: they also whether or not purposefully or not, gave us 88 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: things we still use today, like you know, potassium nitrate. 89 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: So they sort of accidentally discovered gunpowder and ammonium chloride, 90 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: which is used today as nitrogen and fertilizer like for 91 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: farms and stuff like that. 92 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 2: Mh. So, yeah, there were that is kind of a 93 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: tradition in alchemy of you know, they're trying to do 94 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: something else, but they still found useful stuff that we 95 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: still you know, make her use today. In China's whole 96 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: jam with alchemy kind of started to dry up as 97 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: Buddhism spread throughout the country because Buddhism is much more 98 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: focused on rebirths and mellowing out about the whole immortality thing, 99 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 2: and so the pursuit of you know, immortality through special 100 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 2: elixir just kind of became a moot point or a 101 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: moot point. Sorry. 102 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean I guess the Buddhists were like, yeah, 103 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: maybe it's really not possible to live forever. Maybe we 104 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: should set our goals a little more. 105 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: Reasonably, right, let's just pretend like we don't care about 106 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: living forever. 107 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: As far as India goes, they were also not seeking immortality, 108 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: and they were also kind of like post Buddhists China, 109 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: like let's try and promote health, let's try and cure 110 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: some disease. Maybe we can try and transfer something into gold. 111 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: But you know, you'll see that kind of popping up. 112 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: That's why I think a lot of people the first 113 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: thing they think of is turning something into gold, because 114 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: that was the pursuit of a lot of alchemists, because 115 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: gold was so revered either as like, you know, the 116 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: best metal, Go ahead and make your white snake joke. 117 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 2: I wasn't going to. I was just thinking of gold 118 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: wearing a T shirt that was the best metal. 119 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, like the Devil's hands, the devil horns fingers, and 120 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: you know, also thinking like you know, perhaps like drinking 121 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: something that maybe liquid gold but it's really not liquid 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: gold that just turned the color gold could make you 123 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: healthier or maybe live forever. 124 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And in India they were trying to make gold 125 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: nut to get rich, but because like you were saying, 126 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: they were trying to balance health, restore health, like it 127 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: was just associated with healthy living essentially gold was. 128 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 129 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: So then we reached the Mediterranean, that was another ancient 130 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: place and by the time Alexander the Great invaded Egypt 131 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: in three twenty two BCE. They found pretty quickly that 132 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: the Egyptians had already been developing their own tradition of 133 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: alchemy for a while, and the Greek said, Hey, I 134 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: like your style. Let's mix together our philosophy and our 135 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: understanding of physics and astrology with your alchemy, and let's 136 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: produce something really great that medieval monks are really going 137 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: to go nuts for. 138 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think this is like, I know we're 139 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: going to say this quite a bit, but I think 140 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: they were these early scientists were taking a stab at something, 141 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, like sure there were Charlatans and stuff like that, 142 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: but this was so early on in the game, like 143 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: science is brand new, and they were like, hey, let's 144 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: try this thing and see if it works out. And 145 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: maybe didn't always follow modern best practices, but you can't 146 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: expect them to either. So like, I don't know, I 147 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: feel like over time on this podcast period, we've kind 148 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: of tried to shine a little bit of light on 149 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: some of this stuff. Is like, hey, they were doing 150 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: their best back then, trying to get trying to get 151 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: involved in science at least, right. 152 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: At least they were doing something you lazy sad. 153 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I mean this is when the first books 154 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: on it came out. That was one called The Translation 155 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: is Natural and Mystical Things by an Egyptian named Bolos 156 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: of Mende, and this is around two hundred BCE. A 157 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: lot of this was again about making you know, valuable 158 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: metals like gold and silver. But again it was the 159 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: first kind of preserved writing that we have on this. 160 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, no, for sure. And he was also somebody 161 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: who wrote pretty straightforward about alchemy and the recipes and 162 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 2: the processes, which would come to be very rare. As 163 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: alchemy developed, it became much more secretive. But this Greco 164 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 2: Egyptian creation, this melding of different traditions to create this 165 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 2: this specific kind of alchemy it's called Hellenistic alchemy that 166 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: laid the foundation for Western alchemy to come. One of 167 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 2: the other big things that came out of it, or 168 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: another indicator of how important it was is there was 169 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: this kind of legendary figure that developed among the medieval alchemists, 170 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 2: the monks. His name was Hermes Trists Megistos. Just a 171 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: great name, not a good hotel check in name, but 172 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: it's a it's a great name. 173 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: Regardless how many times. Are you gonna hear that? 174 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 2: Right? And you would say it just like that too, 175 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: like real uncertain and unsteady like Hermes. I think. So 176 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: it was a combination, a straight up combination of Thoth 177 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: or Toth I think both the Egyptian god who invented writing, 178 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: the one with the ibis bird head, yeah, and Hermi's 179 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: the Greek messenger of the gods. Like this was a 180 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: complete syncret syncretization of those two, and later medieval monks 181 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: would describe like alchemical text to having been written by Hermi's. 182 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: T Yeah, Hermi's t that's a that's a better check 183 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: in named by far? Is that t acer or t ee? 184 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: I think it means like Hermi's third. The best I 185 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 2: think is what tris megistos translates to. 186 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: All right, that's pretty good. 187 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 2: And this is this is one of those episodes to 188 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 2: chuck where when we say words we might accidentally cause 189 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: somebody to go poof and write something either appears or disappears, 190 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: So everybody'd be prepared for something to vanish. 191 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Uh, And no one knew it that, 192 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, Like when you look back on stuff like this, 193 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to parse out like who was 194 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: who was first, who was influencing who is sort of 195 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: spread around the world. There's is a theory that India's 196 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: belief system was basically just sort of brought over as 197 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: a maybe not as a book, but you know, brought 198 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: over wholesale from proto Arians in Central Asia, and they 199 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: were in the area between four and five thousand years ago. 200 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: So it's you know, I don't know if there's a 201 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: lot to be gained from sort of debating who was 202 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: coming up with what first, you know. 203 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, I mean it doesn't really matter. It's 204 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: those historians. They're kind of fixated around that kind of thing. 205 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: But you know, it is interesting to wonder, like where 206 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: culture came from because so much of it influences so 207 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: much else. It's not just in alchemy but in all 208 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: things basically. But you mentioned Bolos of Mende, and he 209 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: actually came after the guy who the Western tradition of 210 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: alchemy is kind of like based on, Like this guy 211 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: was the guy he's like, here's how it's done, and 212 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: this is the ground rules for alchemy. Hey, everybody, his 213 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 2: name was those the most of Panopolists, and those of 214 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: the most of Panopolists wrote something like twenty eight books 215 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: on alchemy. And for a while they're like, we've only 216 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 2: got a couple of letters of this guy, but we 217 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 2: knew he was brilliant. Apparently they've been finding his stuff 218 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 2: all over the Arabic world in libraries that they didn't 219 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: realize they had it before. But a lot of his 220 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: writings have recently been rediscovered. 221 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and his stuff. He's another one of those that 222 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: was pretty detailed in his writing and to have like 223 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: stuff like this preserved is pretty amazing. He was because 224 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: he was an alchemist obviously transforming metals or you know, 225 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: trying to transform metals. But he, like I said, he 226 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: was pretty specific. He would have write ups on like 227 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: exactly what tools he was using, on what methods he 228 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: was using. A lot of this stuff was obviously repurposed 229 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: from the kitchen, like kind of cooking stuff or maybe 230 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: craft work, not the band, but you know crafting and 231 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: like like a bedazzle, yeah, like a dazzler or perfume making. 232 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: And he credited a lot of this stuff with a 233 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: Jewish woman named Maria, and he was like, you know 234 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: a lot, I've taken a lot of her methods and 235 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: a lot of her methods also transferred over to early 236 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: methods of cooking, like you know, French and Italian cooking methods. 237 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, like a water bath, a bomb Marie or a 238 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: bonyo Maria is you know, like you know when you 239 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: melt chocolate chips in a pan that's inside a pan 240 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 2: that has water in it. Yeah, so you don't scorch it, 241 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: right exactly. You can thank the Jewish woman named Maria 242 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: who has lost a history aside from Zozimosa Panopolis's writings, 243 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: but she apparently taught him. 244 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he said, hey, you can use a lot 245 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: of this stuff to not make gold from lead. 246 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he definitely came up with some processes 247 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 2: that he figured out himself. And like you said, these 248 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 2: people were taking a stab at it. They were like, 249 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: what happens if I do this, and what happens if 250 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 2: I if I try that same thing with a different 251 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: metal or a different powder or something like that. So 252 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,439 Speaker 2: they were experimenting. They were starting the beginnings of experimentation 253 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 2: that would lead to what we understand it as a science. 254 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: Those of most was doing this like he was one 255 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: of the first to do this. I also saw a definition. 256 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I sent it to you or not. 257 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: But he had an explanation or a definition of what 258 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: alchemy is. He said it was the study of the 259 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 2: composition of waters, movement, growth, embodying and disembodying, drawing the 260 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 2: spirit from bodies, and bonding the spirits within bodies. And 261 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: what are you saying, Like, if you stop and think 262 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 2: about it, it's actually pretty comprehensible. Yeah, He's saying. Alchemy 263 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 2: is the study of all the things we've observed about 264 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: the world around us, trying to figure out how that 265 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: stuff works, Like how does a soul come into a 266 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: body and become attached to it, how does it leave 267 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 2: it after death? What's the deal with water? That kind 268 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: of stuff. So like it was just them seeking to apply, 269 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 2: essentially a proto scientific understanding of the world as they understood. 270 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: It, Like what happens if I distilled this thing down 271 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: to its base form or create you know, you're gonna 272 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: hear a lot of talk about vapors, like you know, 273 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: boil something or heat something to create a vapor and 274 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: then smash it together with this thing. And now I've 275 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: just learned you know, I'm trying to make gold maybe, 276 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: but I've all of a sudden discovered that it changes 277 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: properties of both materials if I combine these two things. 278 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: And while they may not have understood what the heck 279 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: that meant, chemistry later on would say, oh, actually what 280 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: they were doing was this right exactly. 281 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, So this whole jam that was laid down by 282 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: Zosimos and Bolos and the early Egyptians who eventually kind 283 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: of combine their stuff with the Greek understanding of the world, 284 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 2: which is really important because Aristotle's thoughts about you know, 285 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: what made matter up, like earth, wind, fire, and air, 286 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: the four elements, that was the understanding of the world 287 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: that they were working. They were trying to figure things 288 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: out within that context. So Aristotle had a huge contribution 289 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: to alchemy early on, which is science would later kind 290 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: of decide was just a huge wrong turn at the outset, 291 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: especially considering that Democritis, who was around around the same 292 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: time as Aristotle, remember him, he was the one who's like, 293 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: everything's made up of atoms. I just am not going 294 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: to use the word Adams yet. 295 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: Right exactly. Good place for a break, yeah, I think so, 296 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: all right, we'll take a break and we'll talk a 297 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: little bit about the move into Europe. Right after this. 298 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck. So things were just kind of hanging around 299 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: from you know, three hundreds BCE, where the Egyptians and 300 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: the Greeks that kind of come together and created that 301 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: version of alchemy, and eventually the Arab world started to 302 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 2: rise and it started to go over here and go 303 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: over there, and wherever it went, it kind of took 304 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: this and that from each culture that it found interesting. 305 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 2: And one of the things that they did, they showed 306 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 2: up in Egypt and they said, Hey, I like this 307 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: alchemy stuff you guys have been doing for the last 308 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: few hundred years. Teach that to us. And that actually 309 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,959 Speaker 2: helped lay the groundwork for the incredible amount of learning 310 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: that took place around this time in the Arab world. 311 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, logging stuff describing stuff that would 312 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: later on again, you know, lay the foundation for legit 313 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: chemists of the future. And one of their theories was 314 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: that production of different kinds of matter starts out basically, 315 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, with the basics, which are heat, coldness, dryness, moisture, 316 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: and combining these different ways are going to have different outcomes. 317 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: Like to produce those vapors, you're going to have cold 318 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: water basically, and combine that with some sort of hot 319 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: moist air to create a vapor, and they would you know, 320 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: mix these things together and they would combine it with 321 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: mercury or sulfur or something like that and trying to 322 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: make gold once again, pray. 323 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 2: I think it's called christiopoia. 324 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the technical term I think for trying to 325 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: make gold. 326 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And there are a couple of big, big names. 327 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: There are a few big names, but two that still 328 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 2: made it all the way through history. Rosie's who's known 329 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 2: as the greatest physician of the Muslim world at the time. 330 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,239 Speaker 2: He was an alchemist. A contemporary I believe of his 331 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 2: named Jabir. He was well known as an early scientist. 332 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 2: Some people call him the father of chemistry. And these 333 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: guys were they were contributing by saying like, hey, don't 334 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: just throw a handful of powder, something like, you know, 335 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 2: do a thumbnail and use the same amount every time. 336 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 2: Just little contributions like that. What was a huge contribution too, 337 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: was that they took a lot of these ancient texts, 338 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: translated them into Arabic, and then those were eventually translated 339 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 2: into Latin, which is when things started to spread like 340 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 2: wildfire throughout Europe. In like the twelfth century. 341 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I promised talk of Europe and I just forgot 342 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: we had to stop by Arabia first. But this is 343 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: the beginning in about the twelfth century when it moved 344 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: into Europe. And this was the time when Europe was shifting, 345 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, to a university sort of a more academic 346 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: way of looking at things and away from the monasteries 347 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: who were I guess some of the more early you know, 348 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: science minded people. Yeah, and Christian scholars at the time 349 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: in Europe, they started to become a little more open 350 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: to say, like, hey, maybe we should you know, look 351 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: to other texts, ancient texts, even look from other cultures 352 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: to try and see if we can learn something from them. 353 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: And so they started experimenting with mineral acids, boric acid, 354 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: sulfuoric acid, stuff like that, and trying to develop elixirs. 355 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: And this is where you'll hear more about things like 356 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: you know, immortality, like the elixir of life, Philosopher's Stone, 357 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: which we'll get into and stuff like that. 358 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should say, now that I think of it, 359 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: I'll bet a lot of this transfer of knowledge came 360 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: from the Crusades. Europe just showed up and was like, 361 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: give us everything, including all of your books on alchemy. Yeah, 362 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: you know, that would be my guess. But yeah, around 363 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: this time, so I read that the European alchemists, following 364 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: this tradition believed that in the ancient world they had 365 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 2: already found what was called the Philosopher's Stone, which just 366 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 2: sounds so cool. Make a really cool like title for 367 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 2: a Harry Potter book or a Willie the Wizard book 368 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: or something. You know, are you making it Philosopher's Stone? No, 369 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: I think it's just kind of like it's just fit naturally. 370 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 2: You know. 371 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: Well, that was the original title of the Harry Potter book, 372 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: Sorcerer's Stone. Okay, that's why asked if you were joking. 373 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 2: Not the Sorcerer's Stone. It's the Philosopher's Stone, wasn't it. 374 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: No, they changed it to the Sorcerer's Stone from the 375 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: Philosopher's Stone. 376 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: What a rip off. Okay, Well, we're talking about the 377 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 2: philosopher's stone, and that was a term for this substance 378 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 2: that supposedly was all over the place, But we just 379 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: didn't recognize the magical properties of it that you could 380 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: turn immediately anything into like gold or whatever. The perfect 381 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: version of that thing was because that was the thing. 382 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: Gold to the alchemists was the perfect version of a metal, 383 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 2: and all other metals, whether it's lead, tin, silver, whatever, 384 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 2: are we we're seeing them in the process of moving 385 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 2: naturally into gold. That's how they understood it. What they 386 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 2: were trying to do is figure out how those processes 387 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: worked so they could speed it up right, yeah, and 388 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 2: do it. Do it. But like that's where they got 389 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 2: the idea of taking lead and turning it into gold. 390 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 2: That's what they were trying to do, was move lead 391 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: into its more perfect natural state, which was gold. And 392 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 2: the way that they thought you could do that was 393 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: with the Philosopher's stone, which would make that happen automatically. 394 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you mentioned earlier that they would operate a 395 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: little more in secrecy later on, and this is kind 396 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: of where we are now now. They would operate, maybe 397 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: they would have their apprentices and stuff like that, but 398 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: it was kind of shrouded in secrecy. A lot of 399 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: times they would use like codes and symbols and metaphor 400 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: and stuff when they were like recording their experiments. And 401 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: there were a handful of European alchemists that you know, 402 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: we should probably go over a little bit. The first 403 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: of which is Albertus Magnus or Albert the Great. He 404 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: was a German philosopher in the thirteenth century, and he 405 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: was a friar, a Dominican friar, and he studied the 406 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: work of these Arab alchemists, because like we said, it 407 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: kind of came over from there, and the ancient Greek philosophers, 408 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: which you know, as we mentioned, kind of did those 409 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: two world of philosophy and science or this kind of science. 410 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 2: Right right. So there was another guy. I mean, there's 411 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: a bunch that we could talk about, John d, Arthur 412 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 2: d Roger Bacon. They were all alchemists who contributed to 413 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 2: our understanding of the world. One I hadn't heard of 414 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 2: was jonder Roque Telaude de jonder Roche Telaude. I think 415 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: I got it that second time. 416 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: That sounds good to me. But German is my non specialty. 417 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 2: He was, he was he was trying to figure out 418 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 2: chris poia chrysal poya, which is again transforming things into gold. 419 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: The thing is and this is a really good example 420 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: or way to point this out. He was a Franciscan monk. 421 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 2: He didn't care anything about getting rich. As a matter 422 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: of fact, he had taken a vow of poverty. So 423 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: many times the alchemists are like, all they wanted to 424 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 2: do is like just make gold and be rich. They 425 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: were just greedy magicians essentially. No, it's not the case. 426 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 2: They wanted to create gold to end poverty. They wanted 427 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 2: to find the elixir of life to end disease. Like, 428 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: they had really big, big goals that they were trying 429 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 2: to reach. And he was a good example that he 430 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 2: wanted to give the Catholic Church the ability to make 431 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 2: gold so that they could fund themselves better. 432 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: Essentially, yeah, I took a vowed poverty in my twenties. 433 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: I think you did too. 434 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, it was forced on me. 435 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: So one of the things that he did too, which 436 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting, I think, is he got talked about 437 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 1: sort of distilling things down to their purest form. He 438 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: did that with booze, and he's distilled it down to aqua. 439 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: How would you pronounce that? Vita aqua vite, aqua vite. 440 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: He called it the fifth essence of wine or the 441 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: quinta essentia. And this goes back to Aristotle again, this 442 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: idea that you know it's something different than those four 443 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: classical elements that we're talking about. And I forgot he 444 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: pronounced his name, but let's just call him Doctor R. 445 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: Said that, hey, when I create this distilled wine down 446 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: to its purest form of alcohol and I put meat 447 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: in that stuff, the meat just kind of stays like 448 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: it is. It stops this decay. And he wasn't. He 449 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: didn't think he had tapped into a new way to 450 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: preserve meat. He thought like, hey, maybe this stops things 451 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: from aging, and maybe this alcohol is a cure. 452 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: All right. He went on to create the my tie. 453 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 2: Oh nice, another one. This guy's my favorite. Paracelsus. His 454 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 2: real name was Philippus Theophrastus Aureolis Bombastis von Hoheim, but 455 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: we'll call him phil Hohenheim Hohenheim. Yeah, well, he went 456 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: by Paracelsus. I think we talked about him in our 457 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 2: poison episode or there was some episode, because he was 458 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: famous for saying the dose makes the poison like you 459 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: can take enough of anything and it's going to kill you, 460 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 2: which is a really important understanding at the time. But 461 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: he was one of the ones who led the way 462 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 2: of secrecy because he believe that what the alchemists were 463 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: doing was dealing in like the nature of the universe, 464 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 2: and that this information was way too potent to just 465 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 2: have out there. So he was one of the ones 466 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 2: that led the charge in that. He also was known 467 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 2: as questioning Galen's thousand year old idea of the four 468 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: humors being the cause of disease. Paracelsus was like, no, 469 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 2: I think that there's like external factors involved, like maybe 470 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 2: even little tiny bugs or something like that that get 471 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 2: in your throat and then into your stomach and then 472 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 2: just really screwed things up down there. Yeah, that's me 473 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: paraphrasing him. That was Paracelsus. So he was a straight 474 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 2: up genius. Yeah for his time. I'm a big fan. 475 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure they came but right back at him 476 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: and said, no, no, silly man, it's just black bile. 477 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: That's the problem. He's like, you sure, like this other 478 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: stuff could be making us sick. 479 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: He's like again, with the bile. 480 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: There was also Nicholas Flamel I guess or Flammeel. I'm 481 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: not sure how you would pronounce that, but I think 482 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: Flamel Flamel. Okay. He is the one who was credited 483 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: to discovered the Philosopher's Stone. He was just a mere 484 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: bookseller in the fourteenth and I guess fifteenth centuries. And 485 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: he said, I got a book. I purchased a book, 486 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: and it was in a language that was so hard 487 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: to translate. It took me twenty one years. But once 488 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: I finally cracked that code. In that book was the 489 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: information on how to produce the Philosopher's Stone. And this 490 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: is what I don't understand. He got rich, But did 491 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: he get rich off of selling this? Like, that's what 492 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:32,719 Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out. 493 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 2: No, the later alchemists, like starting around the seventeenth century, 494 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: they created a legend about him, saying that he had 495 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: created the Philosopher's Stone, so you know, he could turn 496 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 2: anything into gold, and that's how he got rich. 497 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, but how did he where? How did he get rich? 498 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: I still look out because he wasn't turning stuff into gold. 499 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 2: No, from what I saw, his wife was rich. Oh 500 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 2: that's the likeliest explanation. But this legend grew up around him. 501 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: I got because he really was well known. He's recorded 502 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: historically as being very rich. Kind of suddenly they endowed 503 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 2: like a ton of hospitals, a bunch of schools, churches 504 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: that are some of them are still around today. And 505 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: he was known for putting alchemical messages kind of encoded 506 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: in the buildings, like on plaques or in oventories or 507 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, so he definitely was an alchemist. 508 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 2: He definitely was rich. But it was this legend that 509 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 2: grew up around him that he was one of the 510 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: few who actually found the Philosopher's Stone, almost his Sorcerer's stone, 511 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: man see gets in there. 512 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: Another legend is that he perhaps maybe lived to be 513 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: one hundred and fourteen, but records say he was between 514 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: eighty and one hundred and fourteen. So that's a pretty 515 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: big gap there, a wide range. Yeah, thirty four years. 516 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 2: It is pretty wide, but even eighty back in the 517 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 2: fourteen hundreds early fourteen was pretty respectable, I guess. 518 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. 519 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: So we talked a little bit about the Philosopher's Stone. 520 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 2: That was one thing that as far as we know, 521 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: no one ever created, right, but all of the alchemists 522 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 2: in Europe were after this trying to figure this out, 523 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 2: while at the same time also performing all these other 524 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: experiments just in case they didn't figure out how to 525 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: do the Philosopher's Stone. They were figuring out how to 526 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 2: do it the hard way too. There was also another 527 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: thing that they were famous for trying to create, which 528 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: are called homunculi, which are essentially artificial people in miniature 529 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,719 Speaker 2: that they wanted to create so that they could study 530 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 2: how life begins or like Zosimos had said, you know 531 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: how how the spirit bonds to the body. Like, that's 532 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 2: the kind of thing they're trying to figure out by 533 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: creating many humans. And they had all sorts of I 534 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: think it's fair to call it wacky ideas of how 535 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: to create a homunculus. 536 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty fun. I mean, the word homunculus 537 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: is fun in and of itself. But yeah, there's something 538 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: called the Book of the Cow. This is an Arabic 539 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: book in the ninth century that apparently Plato had something 540 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: to do with. And there was a recipe for a 541 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: homunculus in there, which is one a Monculye, and it 542 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: involved in seminating a you, which is I guess that's 543 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: a female sheep, right with human sperm. Don't ask cow. 544 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how that happened, but I'm sure they. 545 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: Had too many ways to do that back then. 546 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure they had their methods, and you would have 547 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: a berth and it would be some sort of shapeless 548 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: form at that point, and then you need to treat 549 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: it with specific stuff materials, put it in a glass container, 550 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: and then it grows into a tiny person. 551 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think that this ever worked, but they 552 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 2: I guarantee some people tried it for sure. 553 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: Oh I bet. I mean you have to have some 554 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: excuse for when you're found with the sheep, right, Oh 555 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: my god. 556 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 2: Oh that's going to stay with me like Sorcerer's Stone Chuck. 557 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: Every time I see the word you eat, it reminds me. 558 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: There was this Happy Days episode where Richie was writing 559 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: in chalk on the sidewalk a message to some girl 560 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 2: that he liked well in a place where he knew 561 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: that she was going to walk home from high school 562 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: for this. And he drew I and then the heart 563 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: and then the you like a sheep, and the girl 564 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: comes up on him while he's sitting there finishing it 565 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: and she's like, I love sheep, and he's like, it's 566 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 2: a you, I love you. But the way that she 567 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: said I love sheep just always it stuck with me, 568 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 2: like the weird thing you said about inciminating sheep and 569 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 2: Sorcerer's Stone will always. 570 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah with me, and it probably taught you the lesson 571 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: like never put yourself out there with a girl. 572 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 2: That's yeah, that was definitely your line you got from 573 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 2: Richie Cunningham. For sure. 574 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: I had forgotten completely about that, and as you started 575 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: to tell that story, I completely remembered it just like 576 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: flooded back to me. That's funny. 577 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: There's one other one too. This was a Brady Bunch 578 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 2: one that I always think of whenever I think of 579 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: I heart sheep when I see the word you. So 580 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: we're like three or four inceptions from this original thing. 581 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: There was a Brady Bunch where Greg and his friend 582 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: stole a rival school's mascot, which was a goat. 583 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: Okay, I remember this. 584 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: So happened that like a bunch of officials from the 585 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: school were came over for coffee to the Brady House 586 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 2: while the goat was there, and they had to move 587 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 2: it from room to room and hide it, and Greg 588 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: finally gets discovered with the goat in a closet holding 589 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: in this really awkward position and the face he makes 590 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 2: when they opened the closet doors. I can't imagine how 591 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 2: many takes they did to get it just that perfect. 592 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 2: But it's one of the great all time shots of 593 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: seventies television. 594 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: If you ask me, did the goat was he wearing 595 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: like a like a cape or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 596 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: I remember that. 597 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm going to send you that clip because it's 598 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 2: worth watching. 599 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: All Right, So I guess we need to take our 600 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: second break, yes, and then we'll come back with more 601 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: talk of seventies television right after this. All right, So 602 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: we have talked sort of hinted at the fact that 603 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: alchemy is not looked back as it was for many years, 604 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: and there's a more modern sort of view of it 605 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: as like that, hey, they were doing the best that 606 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: can at least that's what Chuck said. And some of 607 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: the foundations they laid for modern chemistry you're actually kind 608 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: of valuable. And that's kind of where we're at now. 609 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: A lot of like metallurgical processes were created that were legitimate, 610 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: maybe accidentally creating medicines or things that led to medicines happened, 611 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: which is also valuable. What else, oh. 612 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 2: Well, I mean just the very fact that these guys 613 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 2: were carrying out experiments like before then philosophers just said 614 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 2: like Aristotle, like this is what everything's made of, earth, wind, fire, water. 615 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: Trust me. 616 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 2: No one asked him exactly, No one asked him, how 617 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: do you know that? Or anything like that, and he 618 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 2: really you know, I'm not saying he was a fraud 619 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 2: or anything, but he didn't use any scientific experimentation. It 620 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 2: was the alchemists who started that. They were the ones 621 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: who started working in the lab with specific measures of 622 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 2: materials and then very importantly recording their results, so they 623 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 2: were documenting what they were finding. These are all just 624 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 2: the basic outlines of the scientific method today. 625 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean the word chemistry actually comes from 626 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: alchemy in about the seventeen eighties, which is pretty interesting. 627 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 2: M hm. 628 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: And alchemy is also like the other definitions of alchemy, 629 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: doesn't it also mean like some sort of romantic chemistry 630 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: that can happen, Yeah, you know. 631 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 2: Like romantic chemistry, right, So so a rom com what 632 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 2: they have in there, romantic chemistry. That understanding and use 633 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 2: of the term chemistry actually predates the use of the 634 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 2: word chemistry as far as the scientific discipline goes, by 635 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: almost two hundred years. 636 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good point. And there were also some 637 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: pretty major players that we you know revere as our 638 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: scientific forebears that were involved in stuff like this, who 639 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: maybe try to keep a little quiet, like Isaac Newton. 640 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: And this is like well into the eighteenth century when 641 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton was doing his thing, and he was like, yeah, 642 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: maybe we could make gold from other materials and maybe 643 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna you know, I'm also into some occult 644 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: and spiritual concepts, but I'm going to kind of play 645 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: that down and keep that all under the table for 646 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: now and it will only be discovered later. 647 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, underneath his roughle puffy pirate shirt, he had the 648 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 2: best metal T shirt. 649 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: On well, and people that were in charge of sort 650 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: of keeping up with his story and his records they 651 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: kind of buried that stuff over the years to protect 652 00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: his image, didn't they. 653 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 2: Yeah. Newton was such a genius that he was pursuing 654 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 2: two lines of inquiry into the nature of the universe. 655 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 2: One like the physics genius, the mathematician that we know 656 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 2: and love is like the world's first true scientists. At 657 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 2: the same time, he was pursuing alchemy as well, like 658 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 2: he was looking into the whole thing like you know that. Yeah, 659 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 2: essentially he was trying to figure it out. He apparently 660 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 2: believed or his paper said that he thought alchemy was 661 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 2: this ancient wisdom that God had directly given humans and 662 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 2: that alchemists were figuring out we're learning like that this 663 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 2: was like divine, a divine delivery of like knowledge essentially, 664 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 2: and like like you said, his papers were kept private 665 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: just to preserve his image for centuries, and then finally 666 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 2: they started to get published and people started to understand 667 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 2: him a little more. And I saw a really interesting 668 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 2: quote at some point that one of his biographers said 669 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 2: that Isaac Newton was not the first scientists, he was 670 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 2: the last alchemists. WHOA, Yeah, And I mean it doesn't 671 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 2: necessarily make sense to you if you when you first hear, 672 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,240 Speaker 2: but it's very much like how say a bird evolved 673 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 2: out of a dinosaur bird. The dinosaur bird was not 674 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 2: a true bird. The first bird was the first true bird. 675 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 2: And in that same way, the point they were making 676 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 2: was Newton was the thing that the first real scientists 677 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 2: evolved out of, but he was not that he was 678 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 2: part alchemists too. 679 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good point. There were, you know, even 680 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: some more modern world leaders that were like, you know, 681 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: these guys were trying to make gold and I know 682 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,439 Speaker 1: that didn't work out, but like, maybe we could try, 683 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 1: because it'd be great if we had a lot of gold. 684 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: Maximilium the second and Rudolph the second and this was 685 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: sixteenth and seventeenth century Holy Roman Empire stuff where they 686 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: were like, hey, why don't we just sort of help 687 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: financially support these alchemists because you never know, maybe they 688 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: can maybe they can tap into this elixir of life 689 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: or get us untold amounts of gold. 690 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. I also saw Henry the sixth not only gave 691 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,399 Speaker 2: some like I think fifteen or sixteen alchemists official royal 692 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 2: licenses to produce alchemical gold, he took what they used 693 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 2: and minted it into coins. So supposedly there was no 694 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 2: It was a combination of mercury and copper sulfate with 695 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 2: a little bit of water and it produces some alloy. 696 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 2: Once you clean it up. That looks a lot like gold, 697 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 2: but it's much lighter. There's coins out there still today 698 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 2: to collect that were basically alchemy gold that Henry the 699 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 2: sixth commission and that Britain's gold coins were made out 700 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 2: of for a little while. 701 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: Which ironically are probably worth a lot of money. 702 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 2: I would guess, so and that is ironic, isn't it. 703 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit, don't you think. 704 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would even say more than a little bit. 705 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 2: I'd say a lot of bit. 706 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: Okay. The Academy Royale des Sciences in France is founded 707 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: in sixteen sixty six, and that's when they said, all right, 708 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: this philosopher's stone stuff is not going to be in 709 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: our curriculum anymore. We're not going to look at astrology. 710 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna move into the modern era of the seventeenth 711 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: century version of the modern era. And that's what they did. 712 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: They kind of shut all that stuff down as like 713 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,919 Speaker 1: the official scientific as far as official scientific pursuit academically goes. 714 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the whole thing kind of continued on the 715 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 2: nineteenth century still had alchemists in it. The upshot of 716 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 2: that whole thing was that they were frauds, charlatans, and 717 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 2: they were really the ones who gave alchemy a bad 718 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 2: name to our modern ears. But also science when it 719 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 2: was really when it really developed it, it had a 720 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 2: tendency to turn on its predecessors, the things that it 721 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 2: evolved out of, like witches, herbalists, that kind of thing. 722 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,959 Speaker 2: Same thing with alchemists, like it was just so dumb 723 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 2: and backwards. Science is the truth. It just based disavowed alchemy, 724 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 2: even though it directly evolved out of alchemy. Yeah, but 725 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 2: now it is nice, kind of refreshing that today science 726 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 2: is ready to be like, yes, it's a little embarrassing, 727 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 2: but this is our grandfather. Yeah. 728 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I feel like grandfather is usually less 729 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: embarrassing than father. 730 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 2: I don't know, it depends on the air of the 731 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 2: grandfather's from because they can say some really inappropriate stuff 732 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 2: at Thanksgiving. You know. 733 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I strive to be if I ever am a grandfather, 734 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 1: just to be the sort of sweet, doddering old guy 735 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: that everyone just thinks is fun and funny. 736 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 2: You definitely will be, man, no controversy about. I think 737 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 2: you're also though, one of those grandfathers who's also a 738 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 2: beloved dad. 739 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: Too, which is well, so far, so good. 740 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 2: It's hard to do. 741 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. 742 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 2: Uh. One more thing about alchemy. I when I was 743 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 2: studying listened to a bunch of Dungeon synth. I know 744 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 2: I've mentioned it before, Okay, but in particular I was 745 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 2: listening to albums by which Bolt. Okay, it's really good stuff. Man, 746 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 2: if you're into any kind of like instrumental synth music. 747 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 2: You could do a lot worse than listening to witch Bolt, 748 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 2: all right, And then it also jogged my memory when 749 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 2: I mentioned Dungeon Synths. A couple of years ago. We 750 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 2: got an email from somebody named the loan Enchanter who 751 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 2: has a Dungeon synth label called High Mage Productions, and 752 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 2: you can go check them out on band camp. But 753 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 2: they sent us a couple of jingles that apparently were 754 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 2: lost because I sent them to Jerry, and she's like, 755 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 2: I have never heard either of these, so we can 756 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 2: look for some High Mage Production jingles coming in the future. 757 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for that. 758 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:39,919 Speaker 1: Casting. I'm going to check out witch Bolt. 759 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 2: What a great name it really is, and their album 760 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 2: covers are amazing too. I bet Okay, Well that's it 761 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 2: for Alchemy everybody. We did it, Chuck, and we're done, 762 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 2: and that means it's time for listener mail. 763 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: This is a correction on me. I can't believe I 764 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 1: missed this. I feel like a dummy. Hey guys, when 765 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,839 Speaker 1: you mentioned heavy metal parking Lot on the Sunset Strip 766 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 1: episode the Greatest Heavy Metal Short Documentary of All Time, 767 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: Chuck attributed it to Penelope Spearrus she made Decline of 768 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: the Western Civilization, so I goofed that up. I was 769 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: totally thinking of Decline of Western Civilization. Another great documentary. 770 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 2: But have you seen Heavy Metal Parking Lot? Then I have. 771 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,760 Speaker 1: I just misattributed the filmmaker. Apparently Jeff Krulik and John 772 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: Hayne made Heavy Metal Parking Lot. It's beyond satire and 773 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: encapitulates a moment in time that was magical. They also 774 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: made and this I didn't know, they also made a 775 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: documentary called Neil Diamond Parking Lot. 776 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 2: No. 777 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 1: So that's pretty fun. I'm gonna have to check that 778 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 1: one out. That is from That's with best regards from 779 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 1: matthew T from Cleveland, Ohio, with a ps, I love 780 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: you both, Perry very much. 781 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, matthew T. Right back at you. And 782 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 2: if you want to be like matthew T and correct Chuck. 783 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 2: Chuck loves that kind of thing, you can wrap it up, 784 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 2: spank it on the bottom as an email, and send 785 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 2: it off to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. 786 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 787 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 1: more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 788 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,