1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. The photos are out there now. 2 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: They are photos I believe first used by HBO in 3 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: an investigative special they did on the Murdogs and including 4 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:36,279 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith's death now ruled a homicide. In these photos 5 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: which we are not showing, but they've been picked up 6 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: on many outlets and publicized. There are photos of Stephen 7 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: Smith's body lying literally on the yellow line in the 8 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: center of the road, and you see his blood on 9 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: the road, and I can only imagine and what that's 10 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: doing to his mother, Sandy. This with the backdrop of 11 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: Alex and Murdog's and his family's home, his possessions, personal 12 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: photos of family trips and vacations, everything has gone all 13 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: the block, netting several million dollars. We also learn, as 14 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith case is bubbling, we learned that Alexe Murdogg 15 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: may have planned the murders of at least Maggie, not 16 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul, up to six months prior to the 17 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: double homicide. I Nancy Grace, guys, thanks for being with 18 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: us with me. A real expert. Chris McDonough, star of 19 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: the Interview Room on YouTube. You can find him at 20 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation dot org. But he is the former 21 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: homicide detective with well over three hundred homicide cases investigations 22 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: under his belt. You know, Chris mcdonna, thank you for 23 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: being with us. I'll hardly know where to start with 24 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: all of this, but let's just start with the crime 25 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: scene photos. I don't want to show them of Steven 26 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: Smith's body. I don't think that's what his mother wants 27 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: right now, but I have seen them, having been pulled 28 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: from the program on HBO Max, the one I want 29 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: you to give me your opinion one. First of all, 30 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: his positioned directly on the center line, the yellow line. 31 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: You've driven the road, as have I. It's really dark, 32 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: no street lights, nothing. And I'm telling you, Chris mcdonna, 33 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: I know you drove it. I don't know if you 34 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: drove it at night, but you can see a vehicle 35 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: coming I'm not kidding a mile away, and on this stretch, 36 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: it's not a curve. It's not like the car could 37 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: suddenly come out from around a curve and mow him down. 38 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: He would have seen a car coming mile literally miles away. Nancy, 39 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: I think you know you've pointed it out here on 40 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: your show that when you first see this photograph of 41 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: this young man laying dead center in the middle of 42 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: the road, you do have to ask yourselves, well, wait 43 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: a minute. There was a car that obviously passed him, 44 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: that called nine one one and said, hey, there's somebody 45 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: in the middle of the road. You need to get 46 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: the police out here because somebody's quote going to hit 47 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: him end quote. Well we go back and we look 48 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: at this photograph and we think to ourselves, will, wait 49 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: a minute, how did this young man get into that 50 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: position if there was an automobile accident. I mean, it's 51 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: like he's lying there on his back like in a 52 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: movie staged and his legs have bent over at the 53 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: knee to his left, and he's lying there. One arm 54 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: is left, arm down right beside him, literally placed in 55 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: the middle of the road. Now, if you keep looking, 56 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: you see, and this is really important. I'd like you 57 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: to look at the photo of him. Where you see 58 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: the blood. It doesn't look like his body has been 59 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: dragged any distance at all. It looks like the blood 60 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: is originating from under his head and slowly going off 61 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: to his right. It's not like he was hit and 62 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: you see blood along the road to where his body is. 63 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: It looks like the blood originates right there where he's 64 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: lying and then just he bleeds out from there. There's 65 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: no indication that his body was hit by a car 66 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: and moved any distance at all. Agree. I agree. And 67 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: if you look, if we look even further to your 68 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: point at his upper right arm that's sticking out, he 69 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: appears to have some type of blood transfer that is 70 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: emanating towards the top of his arm where the majority 71 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: of the blood is at the bottom on the roadway. 72 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: So at some point, either a he had to be 73 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: moving or b he was moved that would cause that 74 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: type of transfer. Now that would have to be examined 75 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: a little bit closer, but that is also another part 76 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: of this blood pattern analysis share that just sticks out 77 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: almost immediately. The position of his legs as well. NaN's him, 78 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: and you've commented on it numerous times about how they're 79 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: just folded there. What I would be interested in knowing 80 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: is that the autopsy are there impressions or bruising underneath 81 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: the ankles where his legs are positioned, because that will 82 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: tell us if potentially somebody carried him from the top 83 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: somebody at the top I underneath his arms, which would 84 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: cause that potential transfer on the right arm or at 85 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: the bottom a second person by the ankle's position in 86 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: the middle of the roadway. Okay, could you say that 87 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: one more time about the position of the legs of 88 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: Steven Smith's legs. I mean, I've never I've handled a 89 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of dead body cases, homicide suicides. 90 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: I've never except for a woman that was lying in bed. 91 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: She was lying in bed when her husband murdered her 92 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: and set it up to look like suicide. That's the 93 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: only time I've ever seen someone just lying there like 94 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: sleeping beauty. Until this, usually you know their limbs or 95 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:10,559 Speaker 1: askew and odd, odd configurations that don't look natural. Here, 96 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: it's like he's been lying there reading and he just 97 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: his legs folded over and he's just lying there. You 98 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: would you repeat your analysis one more time? Yes, And 99 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: that is typically into a potential indication that the body 100 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: was picked up and moved to this position, not that 101 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: the young man was walking in the middle of the 102 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: roadway and was struck by a car and ended up 103 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: in this position. But this positioning, I would submit to you, 104 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: is more consistent with potentially even two people moving this 105 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: body to this point because you would have to have 106 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: somebody at the ankles, and you would have to have 107 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: somebody at the top and typically under the armpit shoulders, 108 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: as if you're doing the remember the old fireman carry 109 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: yep where you yeah, and then kind of somebody get 110 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: the ankles and then middle the boom drop him and 111 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: if they dropped him hypothetically, and that would cause the 112 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: type of head bleed that we're seeing. There. What I'm 113 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: not seeing and I would like to see the autopsic photographs, 114 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: is any onset of lividity not We're not able to 115 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: see that in these particular photographs. I don't see any don't. 116 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: I don't see any rigor. I would not expect his 117 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: legs to be in that position if rigor has set in. 118 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think about that? No, I 119 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: agree with you one hundred percent. I'm not seeing any 120 00:08:53,000 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: of that. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here join us now 121 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: on Foxnation for our brand new special Children of Serial Killers, 122 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: a Nancy Grace investigation. Parents by day, Killers by night? 123 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,359 Speaker 1: But what about the sons and daughters of brutal murderers? 124 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: Are they forever haunted by their parents crimes? What happens 125 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: when they find out mommy or Daddy's a killer. In 126 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: this new special, we investigate the lives of children of 127 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: serial killers, weaving the timelines of the parents crimes into 128 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: their home lives. Speaking directly with sons and daughters of 129 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: serial killers, including the children of the Craigslist Killer, the 130 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: Chameleon killer, and more, we hear from experts in the field. 131 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: Don't miss this. Join us now for Children of Serial Killers, 132 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: a Nancy Grace investigation streaming exclusively on Foxnation. Go to 133 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: Foxnation dot com to watch crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 134 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: we were talking about the death of a teen boy, 135 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith, that has been connected to the Murdog family. 136 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: The proximity of his body being within eight minutes of 137 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: the Murdog hunting lodge. I mean, is that a coincidence? 138 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: Now again, let me reiterate, Alex Murdoch's surviving son that 139 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: he didn't kill. Is Buster Murdog, who has vehemently denied 140 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: any connection to Stephen Smith's death. Now, is it a 141 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: coincidence that he's found so close to Moselle, the Murdoch 142 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: hunting lodge. And another thing, would that be his normal 143 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: route home from school? He was at school at night school, 144 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: studying nursing. Would that be his route home out in 145 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere by Moselle. That is a great question. 146 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: And you know what's really eerie about this as well, 147 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: matching is right down the road about I think it's 148 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: less than four miles is where Mallory Beaches are lay 149 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: to rest. So if you lead the cemetery Ramlory Beaches 150 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: and go towards where Stephen Smith is found, they're on 151 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: the exact same road. And so that is there a 152 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:58,359 Speaker 1: familiarity with this region right to this individual who potentially 153 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: did this. And that's what I started looking at internally 154 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: in my mind was okay, well, let's let's take a 155 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: look at this kid's shoes. And that's when I started 156 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: looking at his shoes because you know, everybody was talking 157 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: about you and I have talked about it here that 158 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's a shipped by a car. Typically those 159 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: shoes are going to airborne, but in this case, his 160 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: shoes are on. And so you know, as we talk 161 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: even earlier today, those shoes tell us a lot of 162 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: information about the potential environments where the showman could have been. 163 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: You know, another issue I have with the car if 164 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: a car was traveling I haven't heard anyone asked this. 165 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: If a car is traveling down that road at the 166 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: space limits fifty five at fifty five, would it the boy? 167 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: Wouldn't there be an indication that Stephen Smith was, you know, 168 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: tumble down the road, pushed down the road and stead 169 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: of just lying there in one fixed position. Yes, And 170 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: you would typically see what remember what road rap you 171 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: would typically see, especially on asphalt like this, you may 172 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: even see the body and being, you know, just bones 173 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: broken in various places. And if this was a hypothetical 174 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: a mirror you know, strike, then you're going to see 175 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: parts of that mirror. You may even see parts of 176 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: the skull, because if there's a high velocity of a 177 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: vehicle and impacting a stationary object such as a human body, 178 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: you're going to have a lot of damage that mirror. 179 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: Potentially you're going to see those parts there. And I 180 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: think that was a huge red flag for the Shoth 181 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: Carolina Highest Patrol going getting into this break from the 182 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: get call. Now the murdog family is saying they had 183 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: nothing to do with Stephen Smith's death. Number One, the 184 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: body is in very close proximity to Moselle, the Murdog 185 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: hunting lodge where Gloria Satterfield met her death and Paul 186 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: and Maggie Murdoch met their death death. Also we have 187 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: Randy Murdog, the brother of double killer Alex Murdog. According 188 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: to Stephanie Smith, now that is Stephen Smith's sister, quote, 189 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: Randy Murdog was the second person to call my dad 190 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: after the coroner. That's quite the coincidence, isn't it that 191 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: at that time, right after the coroner calls are Murdog 192 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: calls Randy Murdog, second person to call my dad after 193 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: the coroner. He wanted to take the case and said 194 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: it would be free of charge. That's a creepy echo, 195 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: isn't it. That's what Murdog Alex Murdoch said to the 196 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: Sadderfield family. Yeah, boy, doesn't that sound strange? At four 197 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: o'clock in the mornial That all of a shad lugino. 198 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: There's an attorney involved right from the gut goal. The 199 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: investigation hasn't even kicked off yet. Okay, speaking of Alex Murdagg, 200 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: I mean coincidence. Yes, I never believe in coincidence. Is 201 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: when it comes to criminal law, but I can't build 202 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: a case on a coincidence or rumors or gossip at 203 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: the Pig Louigly. But I do want to talk to 204 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: you about another issue regarding Alex and murdag. Chris mcdunna. 205 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: Chris mcdunna is joining me from the interview room. You 206 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: can find him on YouTube. That's his YouTube channel. I 207 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: want to talk about the startling, the disturbing facts emerging 208 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: that Alex Murdog may have planned Maggie's death at least 209 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: six months before he murdered her. What's that theory all about? 210 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna. So I interview Mark Tinsley, who is the 211 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: right the attorney from Malory Beach. He tells us and 212 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: tells me that I went back him to Maggie's Facebook 213 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: post and I was trying to establish and you'll know 214 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: the legal terminology to this better than anybody answer, But 215 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: what he was to try to establish was did did 216 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: the Murdochs have this knowledge that Paul was a heavy drinker? 217 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: And if show, could he tie that into the boat 218 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: crash potentially Paul being the driver? And if show, does 219 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: that show you know, a liability to the family because 220 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: they knew that this young man and had a propensity 221 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: towards you know, reckless behavior. Show what he did is 222 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: he went to the Facebook page screenshot all of Maggie's 223 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: post involving Paul in you know, poses with alcohol. I mean, 224 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: he's got pictures of him on the beach, he s 225 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: got pictures of you know, him drinking at the bars, 226 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: et cetera. And the list goes on. And what was 227 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: interesting about that? And remember he testified about that in 228 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: Mornoch's trial. But but he told me, he said, the 229 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: light didn't go on until after the conviction, or excuse me, 230 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: until after I started hearing additional evidence in the trial. 231 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: That wait a minute, when he went to Alec and 232 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: this was part of the blow up right at the 233 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: Lawyers Association meeting and hitting him when he went in 234 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: to talk to Alec, or when al approached him. He 235 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: gave Alec the opportunity to get Maggie out of the 236 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: out of the case. He did not he did not 237 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: want to shoe Maggie. And he told him about this 238 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: information that he had and submitted it to Murdoch's attorney 239 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: then at that point, and it was he said about 240 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: thirty days later Alec refused to basically, you know, let 241 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: it in. And so what Mark Tinsley said was, I 242 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: was shocked that this guy was throwing his wife under 243 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: the bush six months before any of this started to 244 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: come together. And it was at that moment he had 245 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: the aha moment after the murders, and this is what 246 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: he brought to the solicitor's office in the age said, look, 247 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: there's more to this. This guy's been thinking about this 248 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: for quite some time. Because he had the opportunity to 249 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: kick Maggie. Alex Murlog had the choice, the opportunity to 250 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: remove Maggie from the lawsuit, but he didn't. He did 251 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: not remove Who wouldn't remove their own wife or husband 252 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 1: from a lawsuit for you know, they're gunning for you. 253 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: Why drag the spouse into it? And he didn't. So 254 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: how does that tell you he had planned the murder 255 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: since that moment? Well, it goes to right, malice of 256 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: forethought and what was he premeditating this whole thing? And 257 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: now we tie that into the statement that the sister 258 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: in law tells him when she or that she heard 259 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: from him when he asked her, when she asked him, 260 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: excuse me, and he makes the comment the person that 261 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: did this has been thinking about this a very long time. 262 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: You're right, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know one 263 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: thing that it just hit me about Stephen Smith? What 264 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: about this, Chris mcdonnaugh. I was told that the blue chips, 265 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: the microscopic chips on Stephen Smith's remains, were discovered at 266 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: the funeral home, not at the crime lab. If that's true, 267 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: the crime lab has a lot of explaining to do. 268 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: And if that's true, that means that that shirt may 269 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: not still be in existence to be analyzed unless the 270 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: mother took it and kept it. Yeah, I agree with you, 271 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: And there's you know, we also have to have to 272 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: ask ourselves what else potentially have they missed and do 273 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: they have it even in the chain of custody. Is 274 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: it somewhere? Hopefully we can we can pray that sled 275 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: has that chain of custody correctly. Well, I mean, if 276 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: the sure the blue chips are found at the funeral home, 277 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: there is no longer a chain of custody. I mean 278 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: that's over because it's been in the hands of the 279 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: funeral home and then I guess given back to the family. 280 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: If the paint hips and I'm talking about microscopic. I 281 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: don't mean like a paint ship that you take two 282 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 1: lows to try to match up paint. Not that kind 283 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: of chip, not that big. But if it were, if 284 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: they were discovered at the funeral home, we're up the 285 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: creek without a paddle on chain of custody. Yeah, yes, right, 286 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: I mean, have you ever got anything like that in 287 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: in your experience? Yes, I have. I have gotten something 288 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: in where I could show why the chain was broken 289 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: and I could vouch for where the item had been 290 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: during the break in the chain. So I don't know. 291 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: I just that's bad. That is bad for the state 292 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: because those chips could be invaluable. What if they're not 293 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: chips off of a car. What if there are chips 294 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: off something else. What have their particles from I don't 295 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: know about. I don't know what they're from. But if 296 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: I can't introduce it into evidence because there's no chain 297 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: of custody, it doesn't even matter. I mean, there's got 298 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: to be a legal exception for cases like this where 299 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: you find evidence and it was not kept in a 300 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: chain of custody. That's a whole other animal we're going 301 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: to have to deal with. But back to I just 302 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: wanted to get your opinion on that. Back to Stephen 303 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: Smith as it relates to the murdogs. You've been to 304 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: the area and you've driven the roads. The fact that 305 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: this is so close to Moselle, the hunting Lodge, I mean, 306 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: can we just be realistic how many cars are out 307 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: there at that time of the night. I would say 308 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: it's going to be very limited traffic flow. In fact, 309 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: I know that South Carolina Hire Patrol even did a 310 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: traffic flow survey. I think that's on their mate report 311 00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: on their notes. But also more interestingly in the traffic 312 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: flow into it Shell, the question's going to be he 313 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: knows this area, and show what's his habit pattern? I know, 314 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: as you know what we used to call a victrmology. 315 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: What does this young man typically do through habit? What 316 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: does this young man do? And from everything that we're 317 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: learning from his mother is walking in the middle of 318 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: the road and his sister confirms him was just completely 319 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: out of character for the sky. So then we have 320 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: to think about and I heard it on your show 321 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: where Eric Land mentioned an iPad, Well, we know where 322 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: this young man's phone is. Is this his iPad or 323 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: is this something that was discovered during the investigative process 324 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: on these other cases. I think when they're going to 325 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: be looking at on the phone, which sorry has been cracked. 326 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: They obviously got the password from a family member or 327 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: figured it out. I think they're going to be looking 328 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: at specifically who was he talking to, texting and calling 329 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: right up to the moment of his death. And I 330 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: think that they are going to be looking for any 331 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: evidence as it relates to an alleged upcoming deep sea 332 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: fishing trip with someone that was wealthy that either had 333 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: or could get a boat. That someone has been remained nameless. 334 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: He has remained nameless. He didn't say who, But that's 335 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: what they're going to be looking for. Plans to go 336 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: fishing that weekend, who was it with, who was the 337 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: anonymous suitor, the date, and who was he speaking to 338 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: that night. That's what they're going to be looking for 339 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: on that phone. Chris, Yeah, I agree with you in 340 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: that leads us into what we talk about here on 341 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: your show. Why those shoe potential at the bottom of 342 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: those shoes and even the top of those shoes could 343 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: be very significant in relationship to that wet mud and 344 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: the dry mud and the wet shoes because there is 345 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: no water source in the middle of that round. It 346 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: doesn't enerve no water source at all. So where did 347 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: that come from? Guys? In the last hours, we will 348 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: learn a Savannah woman actually finds Murdog family photos after 349 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: bidding on a camera at the Murdog estate cell. The 350 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: estate cell netted a couple of million dollars. That's really 351 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: interesting to me that there were rims of family photos 352 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: that were undiscovered by SLED. I don't know if any 353 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: of them they were on memory cards, but that's something 354 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: I would have wanted to look at just to see what, 355 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: if anything, it would reveal. Chris. Yeah, and if the 356 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: search ward says any type of electronic devices, they missed it. 357 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: And you know, you're one hundred percent right, man, jam 358 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: And if I came to you as an investigator and 359 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: you the prosecutor, and I said, hey, we got a problem, 360 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: that's exactly the conversation we would be having, right, what 361 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: do you mean, what are you talking about? You know? 362 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: Eric Bland told us in the last couple of hours 363 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: that he is assembly a dream team to work on 364 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: this case, including doctor Kinsey. As you'll recall, Kinsey was 365 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: a huge home run on the case in the Alex 366 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: Murdog double murder trial. Doctor Michelle Dupree is a fantastic 367 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: medical examiner, pathologist, former detective in the South Carolina jurisdiction, 368 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: and others. I think it's going to take a team, 369 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: do you. Yeah. Absolutely, And it sounds like they've assembled 370 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: an amazing group of individuals who will be able to 371 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: think through this and bring hopefully some justice to the 372 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: Showman at least at least kickstarted. Yeah. First order of 373 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: business is getting the exclamation done. That is number one. 374 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, thank you for joining us. We wait as 375 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: justice and false Goodbye.