Speaker 1: My name is Jeffrey Zarrian, and you're listening to four
Speaker 1: Courses with Jeffrey z Carian from my Heart Radio. In
Speaker 1: four courses, I'll be taking you along for the ride
Speaker 1: while I talk with the top talent of our time.
Speaker 1: In each conversation, I focus on four different areas from
Speaker 1: my guests life and career. And during those four courses,
Speaker 1: I'm going to dig deep in and cover new insights
Speaker 1: and inspirations that we can all use to fuel ourselves
Speaker 1: to push forward. My guest for this episode is a
Speaker 1: celebrity chef and fellow Food Network host. He got to
Speaker 1: start with Network TV when he won his final season
Speaker 1: of Food Network Star, and he's known for his love
Speaker 1: and aptitude for great sandwiches. Without further delay, let's get
Speaker 1: into my conversation with the sandwich King and my dear
Speaker 1: friend Jeff Morrow. All right, what do you think? Are
Speaker 1: you ready? Like I say before every song when the
Speaker 1: Jewel Bags play this up? Uh, Mr Jeff Morrow, A
Speaker 1: good afternoon, and thank you for joining us on four Courses.
Speaker 1: It's about time, That's all I gotta say to that.
Speaker 1: It's about time for our first course. I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask Jeff about his childhood in Chicago, growing up as
Speaker 1: one of fifteen cousins in a large Italian American family.
Speaker 1: Ever the comedian, It turns out he delivered some of
Speaker 1: his earliest performances at the kids dinner table. Let's go
Speaker 1: back to sort of your four and five. You're you're
Speaker 1: in Illinois and you're around, you're on the table. What
Speaker 1: is the first to smell of food that you can
Speaker 1: sort of think that when you smell it, it's like
Speaker 1: in the furniture, you know that smell? Right? Yeah? What
Speaker 1: is it? That smell? Because that smell was at my
Speaker 1: house growing up, at my grandma's house, at my aunt's house.
Speaker 1: And it's that like deep simmering red sauce. I mean,
Speaker 1: like cooked for a day, never saw the fridge, simmered
Speaker 1: and then delitted and then sat overnight and then simmered again.
Speaker 1: And it was Sunday, and it was started early, and
Speaker 1: it's sent intensified with each hour as that sauce reduced
Speaker 1: and became even more like sweet and tomato eat and fragrant.
Speaker 1: I mean it's visceral, Like I smell that walking into
Speaker 1: my own house and if Sarah's making any tomato based
Speaker 1: sauce and it's like it brings me back to those
Speaker 1: meals every Sunday in my Grandma Cays and pause, my
Speaker 1: Grandpa Joe's house, the same house my mom grew up
Speaker 1: in a two bedroom, four kids, two adults, no basement,
Speaker 1: no upper stairs, just two bedrooms and every piece of
Speaker 1: furniture covered in plastic. And that's not even a joke.
Speaker 1: So there's nowhere comfortable to sit except around the table.
Speaker 1: And there'd be eighteen, you know, the kids would be
Speaker 1: in the kitchen at the little nook table the four
Speaker 1: mica top and the built in booth, and we like
Speaker 1: eight of us would squeeze there and all the adults
Speaker 1: and whoever older kids would squeze around the table and
Speaker 1: it would be the same menu. Sausage, meatballs, ravy, musta
Speaker 1: choli salad and you know, c K four TCMO jugs
Speaker 1: of wine. And I remember, it takes me back there. Man,
Speaker 1: it was like the greatest gift I ever got where
Speaker 1: those times every Sunday. You know, my my mom has
Speaker 1: three siblings. Everybody had four kids, and we're all in
Speaker 1: the same so there's sixteen. First, well, my uncle had
Speaker 1: three kids. It's easier to say that way. He was
Speaker 1: a slacker, right, you only had three or three from
Speaker 1: two different marriages, so he you know, he was a
Speaker 1: wild child. He was doing the best he could know
Speaker 1: exactly my break, I know, right, three slacker. So I
Speaker 1: have all these cousins that am extremely close with, like
Speaker 1: my cousin Joe's coming over for his Friday bear with
Speaker 1: me on the front porch at four o'clock, you know. So,
Speaker 1: and it all centered around that, not only the food,
Speaker 1: but that smell, that particular smell. How did the work too?
Speaker 1: Was there like an attendant that would like help someone
Speaker 1: get in and out of the bathroom? And how many
Speaker 1: bathrooms you have for all those people? Oh, in my
Speaker 1: my grandparents house one one bathroom? Hot that work? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a guy there. He was He had denten,
Speaker 1: he had lister, he had a cook, a couple of
Speaker 1: packs of light cigarettes, you know, some fart spray all that.
Speaker 1: You threw him a buck or a sawbuck if you
Speaker 1: had a good week and you need be on your way. No,
Speaker 1: I remember, I mean like sometimes after dinner, Yeah, there
Speaker 1: was a lineup saying I mean you know that's I
Speaker 1: never thought about that. I mean to me, it was
Speaker 1: always like the bed situation for my mom growing up
Speaker 1: in that house. The bathroom was the real issue. I
Speaker 1: think now that I think about it, real issue, right,
Speaker 1: And we're like, if we don't have like two bathrooms
Speaker 1: with three bathrooms, we freak out right. It's like it's
Speaker 1: not possible. Oh my god. I mean there's literally three
Speaker 1: showers in my house that have never been used. That's
Speaker 1: what happens to you're an international television start did you
Speaker 1: store Do you store all your podcast equipment in one
Speaker 1: shower like we do here? And uh, it's so much crap.
Speaker 1: But you got all this recording stuff. Where does it go?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like a mess. Well, you could see
Speaker 1: my room from this is like, I don't know, fifteen
Speaker 1: by eighteen. This room, it's not big. And I have
Speaker 1: all the instruments from my band, all my instruments. Lorenzo's
Speaker 1: right next door. I don't know. Men just with with
Speaker 1: the space. I guess it's in blood to be resourceful
Speaker 1: like that. I love the sauce smell. I think that
Speaker 1: in my house. I can tell you that this there
Speaker 1: was similar smells, but it was both the onions and
Speaker 1: lentils and lamb, and I swear it turned the wallpaper
Speaker 1: a different shade of color over thirty or forty years. Fat,
Speaker 1: you know, the fat that comes out and just it
Speaker 1: comes out in a mist right and it has to
Speaker 1: go somewhere. Yeah, And there was no like high powered
Speaker 1: external exhaust fans blowing in those kitchens right now they
Speaker 1: blew it back in. It went up and then blew
Speaker 1: right your face. It was like what was what glasses on?
Speaker 1: You couldn't see what you're cooking in the first five minutes.
Speaker 1: I remember, I'd like go to parties and so I
Speaker 1: just you know, I have that big garlic smell and
Speaker 1: the sauce smell on me, and I can dance with
Speaker 1: young ladies and like you smell like Italians foods. Well,
Speaker 1: you seem to have gotten a real dose of food
Speaker 1: in the way that I think that most people in
Speaker 1: this business have. They really get it from the the ancestors.
Speaker 1: They get it from being around it so much they
Speaker 1: don't even know they're getting it. But then somehow you
Speaker 1: got the acting bug and you decided like this might
Speaker 1: not be what you want to do. You wanted to
Speaker 1: you were doing something else. What happened, Well, the power
Speaker 1: of food was right from it. It was like stupid.
Speaker 1: How how noticeable it was, right, I mean like around
Speaker 1: boom right there, young, we're eating where you know, every
Speaker 1: celebration revolved around trades of food, right home cooked meals, eating, chewing, smiling, laughing.
Speaker 1: But what I love, like my first stage was not
Speaker 1: the stage. It was those tables. And I had a
Speaker 1: lot of cousins, a lot of siblings, a lot of
Speaker 1: loud people hard to get attention. I can be mean,
Speaker 1: I could be loud or I could be funny. And
Speaker 1: for me, it was like that's what developed that muscle
Speaker 1: early on, and that you know kind of zest for
Speaker 1: performance was like this is my venue. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: I learned, and I get a laugh from the uncle
Speaker 1: and I get from the other uncle who's harder to
Speaker 1: make laugh, and You're like, I gotta stick. I got
Speaker 1: a routine and this is I love this like I
Speaker 1: love being Even then you get invited to the adult
Speaker 1: table a little more. You know, I worked the you know,
Speaker 1: I cut my teeth at the kid's table and then
Speaker 1: I I you know, i'd get the uh, I get
Speaker 1: the bump up to the adult table after a couple
Speaker 1: of years and maybe get a little nipple wine and
Speaker 1: were at a cigar and worked the room. But I'll
Speaker 1: never forget like one of the most defining moments I
Speaker 1: was my grandpa's funeral. Right, it was the luncheon, which
Speaker 1: I lunch from a young age. That was like that
Speaker 1: was my zone luncheon I called I killed never met
Speaker 1: a funeral runch and right didn't crush. And in my
Speaker 1: uncle's that was back when Andrew Dice Clay was popular,
Speaker 1: and we said, you know, my brother would have a
Speaker 1: tape of a tape of a tape that was we
Speaker 1: couldn't let your parents because of all the swearing and
Speaker 1: the raunchy humor, right, super rated r especially for like
Speaker 1: a sixth grade but we would like put in our
Speaker 1: cassette players are are Walkman's wed like ride or bike,
Speaker 1: And I memorized everything. So my dad and my uncle's
Speaker 1: they pull me in the room like the side room, right,
Speaker 1: and there be like go ahead. I'm like what Dad,
Speaker 1: He's like, He's like, give me, give me a cigarette unlit,
Speaker 1: right and give me like go ahead, do do the dice.
Speaker 1: And I'd sit there and I'd be like macar de
Speaker 1: gar dack, Why do you always make me? I'm like
Speaker 1: cock and I would do that sixth grade. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, ten years old and like not no ants
Speaker 1: in sight, not my mom, nobody because and my dad
Speaker 1: like gave me the swear not like you could swear.
Speaker 1: And from that moment on, I was like, done, this
Speaker 1: is what I do. That is a fantastic and I know,
Speaker 1: like that the Andrew Dice was I would say that
Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle of his time. He was just I mean
Speaker 1: maybe that was just cerebral but super controversial. Where to
Speaker 1: the point was I mean, like, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: pretty misogynistic all the things that you know, we're growing
Speaker 1: getting past Jeffrey, but it's uh, I mean, well maybe
Speaker 1: that's why, you know, maybe that's why humor the geared
Speaker 1: towards eighth graders. So that was really it. I mean
Speaker 1: that was ten year old. You're a ten year old.
Speaker 1: You're a comic. I think you're loving the feedback. That
Speaker 1: feedback is everything. And someone laughs at a joke. It's
Speaker 1: like someone cooking at dinner and saying this is the
Speaker 1: least and they clean their play. You like just you
Speaker 1: just want to do more and more and more and more.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get to that point, you know, right,
Speaker 1: like It's hard to gain the skills and experience to
Speaker 1: put a plate of food out there that people want
Speaker 1: to stop up, you know, with the last bit of
Speaker 1: table bread. It's hard to get a routine in or whatever,
Speaker 1: the confidence to talk to a room of three people
Speaker 1: or three hundred people. But man, once you get there
Speaker 1: and you get the instant feedback in the response, you know,
Speaker 1: a laugh and a smile, the same as like a
Speaker 1: in a chew. So now you're on stage. You're in
Speaker 1: high school and performing. How cool is that? Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I went to a high school, a big, very diverse,
Speaker 1: very just intense high school with a pretty amazing pedigree.
Speaker 1: You know, we've had actors, comedians. Ray Kroc went to
Speaker 1: my high school. Ernest Hemingway went to my high school.
Speaker 1: You know, it's very historic, and it's kind of right
Speaker 1: on just the beginning of the western suburbs of Chicago,
Speaker 1: so shares a border with the city. So you get
Speaker 1: this immense diversity, and it's a big place to go
Speaker 1: to a freshman, and you just get chewed up if
Speaker 1: you don't have a pair on you or some confidence.
Speaker 1: I mean there's four floors, people throw pennies at you.
Speaker 1: It's terrible. So I found I was like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go there and I'm doing like all the theater right,
Speaker 1: and so you get cast as a little bit part whatever.
Speaker 1: But I worked up pretty quickly, and that kind of
Speaker 1: gave you a safe space. I wasn't necessarily like a
Speaker 1: theater kid in high school, but I loved performing. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't really hang out with the theater kids. I'm
Speaker 1: not like disparaging the theater kids, but if you want
Speaker 1: to high school, you know, if you want, And they
Speaker 1: did their own thing, and there were the true kids
Speaker 1: out there that were in it for that moment on stage,
Speaker 1: the art form. But you know, for me, it was
Speaker 1: I wanted the laughs. I wanted the comic roles. I
Speaker 1: wanted the accents all that stuff. So I guess I'm
Speaker 1: lucky for having that such a young exposure. Even before that,
Speaker 1: my parents driving me to downtown to go to the
Speaker 1: Second City youth programs and learn improv from third grade on.
Speaker 1: You know, my dad saw me on stage at a
Speaker 1: third grade play. That's my son, that's my son. Well,
Speaker 1: you know my dad. If if you met Gus like
Speaker 1: you think like this is the father that's gonna throw
Speaker 1: his kids into wrestling in football because big kids. The
Speaker 1: minute he saw me on stage and that you know whatever,
Speaker 1: crappy third grade play and I came out playing King
Speaker 1: George the Fourth with the spot on British accent and
Speaker 1: a capon in a in a crown. He was like,
Speaker 1: this kid, we're gonna push this, you know, we're gonna
Speaker 1: support it. Anything stagewise that would throw me into in
Speaker 1: our second course, I had to understand how Jeff's love
Speaker 1: for the performance translated into a career not just on
Speaker 1: the stage but in the kitchen. He studied radio and
Speaker 1: television at Bradley University, where he actually began working behind
Speaker 1: the scenes. I didn't do like any on camera stuff.
Speaker 1: They're nothing. It was all editing, you know, shooting, lighting, sound, editing,
Speaker 1: and I was like more editing focus because it was
Speaker 1: a small program, but we had big, brand new building
Speaker 1: they built. But a very old school news guy who
Speaker 1: like were a scarf, you know, like a ankerchif scarf
Speaker 1: and like a cowboy had but he was from nowhere
Speaker 1: in the West. He kind of taught us like how
Speaker 1: to edit. Well, so that's one skill I've really utilized
Speaker 1: in this stage of my life, is like how to
Speaker 1: edit video because we do it all the time on
Speaker 1: social media. For him, these reels and all these things,
Speaker 1: it helps to have a background knowledge. But I would,
Speaker 1: you know, you do all the pre requisites. I get
Speaker 1: sees and everything. And I crushed the television stuff because
Speaker 1: you'd sit in an editing bay, you shoot the video,
Speaker 1: you do the news packages for the Bradley News program,
Speaker 1: and you're like the shooter and the editor. And I
Speaker 1: just like, I don't even want to shoot anymore. I
Speaker 1: just want to edit the video. I mean, I'd sit
Speaker 1: in a booth for like eight hours a day. You know,
Speaker 1: you smoke a little the bit, do you drink of
Speaker 1: the broco loots the next thing, you know, and so
Speaker 1: midnight and you got the whole thing done. But I
Speaker 1: was also in a band my my entire four years.
Speaker 1: We're called Brother Ron, the only band on campus. And
Speaker 1: it was so weird because it's only kids, and it
Speaker 1: was in downtown Peoria, which was like full of bars,
Speaker 1: so there was Peoria bands, but we were the only
Speaker 1: Bradley band. We were the house band at the biggest
Speaker 1: bar every Wednesday, and we play all the other bars
Speaker 1: on the weekends. So I never had to ask my
Speaker 1: like my parents, like I made my own money playing
Speaker 1: in a band. We rehearsed in the basement of the
Speaker 1: fraternity and we played covers. We had maybe about a
Speaker 1: dozen original songs that nobody really cared about, but of
Speaker 1: course they wanted to Rolling Stones Dave Matthews, Ben and
Speaker 1: I was a full time steward for the fraternity to
Speaker 1: make my room and board. So we ran the kitchen,
Speaker 1: did all the There was a you know, a chef
Speaker 1: quote unquote chef that would cook for the fraternity guys,
Speaker 1: and I would do all the shopping, cleaning, lay out
Speaker 1: the food, make sure it's cleaned up after everything. And
Speaker 1: I loved it because I, you know, I worked in
Speaker 1: Delhi's way, you know, throughout high school and butcher shops
Speaker 1: and all that. So I was like pay for my board,
Speaker 1: room and board. So two thousand graduated and then came
Speaker 1: along a little musical called Tony and Teena's Weddings. So
Speaker 1: how did that happen? And how? I mean that was
Speaker 1: a big deal. It was a big deal. How did that?
Speaker 1: How did they get to you? They do like auditions
Speaker 1: or do they call theater? Yeah, how did they do that? Well,
Speaker 1: it's really not a musical. It was dinner theater more
Speaker 1: like improv full immersion Italian American wedding. Right. We didn't sing,
Speaker 1: but there was like not like choreograph dancing, you know,
Speaker 1: most of it was improv. There were choreographed moments. But
Speaker 1: I started out in it because when I graduated college, right,
Speaker 1: I had this beautiful radio and television degree from a
Speaker 1: liberal arts college that you know, I paid off student
Speaker 1: loans until I was you know, thirty two. Parents helped out.
Speaker 1: Of course, probably Gusts and Pam watching like anything, but like,
Speaker 1: you know, the old fashioned way. And I'm like, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a job in TV. And my cousin Dave,
Speaker 1: he was a shot in the city for whatever train
Speaker 1: was executive shop. He's like, I want to get I
Speaker 1: want to open a Delhi. Come on board with me.
Speaker 1: I know, you know you've worked in Delhi's blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: You're creative. So next day we're ripping out, carpet, painting
Speaker 1: the walls, doing everything. I'm building the menu from scratch.
Speaker 1: We're ordering all the meats and vegge and opening up.
Speaker 1: And then that same week we opened my dad's Like, hey,
Speaker 1: I met the producer of Tony and Tina's wedding. Do
Speaker 1: you want an audition? My dad was tremendous in helping
Speaker 1: me throughout my career as far as like setting up
Speaker 1: a stage for right, give me, supporting me, both him
Speaker 1: and my mom, not just my old man. So I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: So my dad's like, I'll line it up. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: but I've never seen the show. I don't know what amditioning.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, we'll go. I'll get his tickets too.
Speaker 1: So the irony is I went and auditioned on a
Speaker 1: Friday night. I was with Sarah back then too, so
Speaker 1: I was twenty one. I remember she came along like
Speaker 1: the second time she met my family. And I go
Speaker 1: to this room and it's a wedding hall. I mean
Speaker 1: it is a banquet that holds three d and fifty people, right,
Speaker 1: And there's a chapel next door, like a full chapel
Speaker 1: with pews and stained glass in a pulpit and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. And I go audition right before they go on,
Speaker 1: like an hour or two, and I see the cast
Speaker 1: members kind of walking, and then he cleared this thing
Speaker 1: in the director Joey to Mosca, his brother Anthony's brother goes,
Speaker 1: all right, let's do some improv. You know. He's like
Speaker 1: kind of like a raliotic type guy. You know. I
Speaker 1: was like, really tough guy, let's see what you got.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, I'm scared shitless. And they brought
Speaker 1: in some of the cast members and we did like
Speaker 1: an hour of improv. And here I am auditioning for
Speaker 1: an Italian wedding, something I've been to four thousand times
Speaker 1: in my life. Full blooded Italian American Chicago. So I'm
Speaker 1: playing in a Chicago Italian American. I nailed it. They
Speaker 1: hired me right there and then like to open the
Speaker 1: doors and my family comes in and we sit down
Speaker 1: and then we watched the show. It was awesome. But
Speaker 1: I started as a waiter for I don't know, six months,
Speaker 1: so we had to create our own character and stick
Speaker 1: with it and serve the food because it was dinner
Speaker 1: and the sausage, salad, pasta, and bread. And then finally
Speaker 1: he's like, okay, now you can be a groomsman, you know.
Speaker 1: And then he's like, okay, now you can be the
Speaker 1: best man. So it took me a couple of years,
Speaker 1: but then I finally made it up to Tony after
Speaker 1: he made me lose weight and he said that, he said,
Speaker 1: you lose twenty pounds, you could be Tony and I lost, Like,
Speaker 1: So what was the was there a script? There were moments,
Speaker 1: there were beats in the show that there were lines
Speaker 1: right at the end in the church there are lines,
Speaker 1: and then the live band, live dancing, drinks, two bars.
Speaker 1: People are hammered right every offering you drugs. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: It was like like when you hear about like SNL
Speaker 1: back in the day, you know what I mean, or
Speaker 1: like Second City because we're in the same building with
Speaker 1: Second City. So we see the Second City people and
Speaker 1: they turn their nose up at us, but we're like,
Speaker 1: screw you were getting paid, you know, I didn't make
Speaker 1: much at the at the end, I was making like
Speaker 1: sixty eight bucks a show, being the lead of the show.
Speaker 1: But I did that for four years in uh four years,
Speaker 1: four years, seven shows a week. Mattenee's exhausting. Every other
Speaker 1: Wednesday was the daytime matinee for the Blue Haired crew.
Speaker 1: They bust them in from all like the old Folks Home,
Speaker 1: and it was so horrible. It's horrible. You know, it's
Speaker 1: a raucous drunk. You know, it's supposed to be lively
Speaker 1: when you have you know, hundred and seventy two ninety
Speaker 1: year olds watching you, I mean, like, when's the coffee?
Speaker 1: Why is there no coffee. It's kind of a ballsy
Speaker 1: premise to serve dinner and make that the show. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like fantastic. At the same time, that's kind
Speaker 1: of hard because every time you don't know what to expect.
Speaker 1: The crowd could be like into it. The crowd could
Speaker 1: be not into it, the crackerld drink too much. They
Speaker 1: could like It's like, how does that work? How do
Speaker 1: you gather feedback from something that's so like live all
Speaker 1: the time. I don't know. Yeah, it's you know, every
Speaker 1: night was different. There were countless people too, who thought
Speaker 1: it was a real wedding like that we're kind of
Speaker 1: duped into it and we were not. We would be
Speaker 1: fined if we broke character, like we would get severe
Speaker 1: trouble if they saw us talking to a family, even
Speaker 1: if we knew him. We had to stay in character.
Speaker 1: So we would do table work. So I think the
Speaker 1: greatest skill I got from that was working any room anywhere.
Speaker 1: I love that when we're at a live demo for
Speaker 1: a corporate audience, or at a food festival for a
Speaker 1: drunken audience, whatever it's They're all different rooms. So I
Speaker 1: had to go to each table, work the table, make
Speaker 1: them laugh, boom boom boom, onto the next table, night
Speaker 1: after night, thirty six tables. That's incredible. So what what
Speaker 1: did you do during the day. I we worked at
Speaker 1: the deli. So I worked a full day at the die.
Speaker 1: Get their six in the morning, prep, make soup, make
Speaker 1: sauce is, then make sandwiches, do the caterings, have all
Speaker 1: the people come in, serve them. Boom. I get in
Speaker 1: the car, go home, shower up, put on the white tucks,
Speaker 1: and go to Tony Tina's wedding till eleven o'clock every
Speaker 1: night every weekend. But it was a very successful play,
Speaker 1: like we were doing. I was there when eleven happened
Speaker 1: and that had a bit, you know, it kind of
Speaker 1: dropped off some of that crowd. But before that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you do three fifty at night, which is a lot.
Speaker 1: That's very impressive. I didn't know it was for four years.
Speaker 1: It's exhausted. I mean if I was you know, four,
Speaker 1: I mean, if I was forty four, it i'd be very,
Speaker 1: very tired. Back then, it was like, Okay, I like
Speaker 1: what I'm doing during the day, I'm very fulfilled. I'm
Speaker 1: working in the Delhi, I'm slicing me I'm talking to
Speaker 1: customers all day, and then I go get to be
Speaker 1: a professional comedian at night. I was like, I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: I'm making it. I was doing it, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like I was living the dream, but I
Speaker 1: just wasn't making any money at anything. I mean, and
Speaker 1: that's you cannot expect it to. I mean, so you
Speaker 1: so you said, Okay, I'm gonna take I'm taking Tony,
Speaker 1: I'm taking the salami, and I'm going to l a exactly,
Speaker 1: It's exactly what I had in my car. You wanted
Speaker 1: to do your own show. So tell me about that
Speaker 1: show and how did that? How did that come about? Well,
Speaker 1: my cousin who supported you, So Sarah did, of course
Speaker 1: because she's a nurse. So she got a nursing contract
Speaker 1: job that moved us across the country and put us
Speaker 1: in a foot woman. Of course, right, we were engaged
Speaker 1: at the time and I'm like, let's do this move
Speaker 1: and she was she supported it. But my cousin Joe Ballerini,
Speaker 1: who is a very successful screenwriter filmmaker. Were the same age, Like,
Speaker 1: so I was twenty four right, making six day bucks
Speaker 1: a show, making thirty dollars a day at the deli,
Speaker 1: and he's like selling scripts for like six hundred grand,
Speaker 1: and I'm like holy, and he's like, come on out,
Speaker 1: we can do something. I'm like, dude, are you sure.
Speaker 1: He's like, no, come and visit. We'll shoot a pilot.
Speaker 1: We'll do the food pilot. We'll start pitching around. He's like,
Speaker 1: I got context. I'm crushing it. So I was like, okay. So,
Speaker 1: I mean the night I moved Sarah and I moved
Speaker 1: right and we're out with Joe. He introduced me to
Speaker 1: my buddy, my first friend out there, who is his friend.
Speaker 1: He went to USC film school with Ali Khan. So
Speaker 1: Ali and I became fast friends, and we're like, let's
Speaker 1: do this thing. We're gonna shoot these wild gonzo parties
Speaker 1: in the hills at my cousin Joe's house in the hills,
Speaker 1: and we'll edit them and we'll put some music and
Speaker 1: we'll put it on YouTube. And that YouTube was like
Speaker 1: non existent then, and then we'll pitch it to networks
Speaker 1: and production companies and we'll get a deal and we'll
Speaker 1: make it. And we did that. We did all that
Speaker 1: for three years, and we had chef Jeff and Ali.
Speaker 1: We had a couple of sizzles. We had a pilot.
Speaker 1: We shot a pilot that we never saw with the
Speaker 1: production company. We had representation from U t A, which
Speaker 1: is a big, amazing out there. We were in rooms
Speaker 1: with Spike TV, MTV. We were never in Food Network. Kay,
Speaker 1: they probably like, look at these two schloves. It was like, no,
Speaker 1: this is not our demographic. But we hustled it. Man.
Speaker 1: We did everything all the while I was I was
Speaker 1: in the groundlings doing improv all the way up to
Speaker 1: the writing lamp, getting on stage there writing and producing
Speaker 1: my own sketch comedy shows with all my other friends
Speaker 1: that moved in comics from Chicago. We're called the beef
Speaker 1: Stand and we just we did all this and that
Speaker 1: was It was just grind, grind, and no after no
Speaker 1: after no. Like everything was a no, right, every single thing.
Speaker 1: It was never a yes. And I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: sick of this. If I want to be taken seriously,
Speaker 1: I need to go to culinary school. I need to
Speaker 1: take the food seriously, I'm working on the other chops.
Speaker 1: I need to work on these chops and meet myself
Speaker 1: in the middle. I'm never gonna I never wanted to
Speaker 1: be the best chef in the world. I never was
Speaker 1: going to be the funniest comic in the world. But
Speaker 1: I could be the funniest chef in the world. If
Speaker 1: I stick on that, I'll create an angle. I'll do
Speaker 1: it with sandwiches and my love from the deli world.
Speaker 1: And so that's what I did. I rolled over. I
Speaker 1: said to Sarah, and good, let's go. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: and roll in. That culinary school is called um There's
Speaker 1: a Court on Blue affiliate in Hollywood called the Kitchen Academy.
Speaker 1: It was a year program, and I worked full time,
Speaker 1: went to school every night for six hours and you
Speaker 1: don't get out of there until midnight after cleaning for
Speaker 1: three Like that's what they don't tell you go to
Speaker 1: culinary school. You're cleaning matts. It's like, Biggs, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my God, and I'm like yelling at these kids
Speaker 1: right because I'm in my mid twenties and and I'm
Speaker 1: really ready. I never gave a ship about school until
Speaker 1: I paid for it fully myself and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm getting these, man, and I loved it. I mean
Speaker 1: I loved every minute. I learned a ton and I
Speaker 1: sharpened those skills, and I worked in restaurants, I staged,
Speaker 1: I did my extern chips, and by the time I
Speaker 1: was graduated, I auditioned for the first time for Food
Speaker 1: Network Start while in l A and I got a callback,
Speaker 1: like my first callback for our third course. I wanted
Speaker 1: to hear more about that callback, which was just the
Speaker 1: beginning of Jeff's journey to breaking through in the industry.
Speaker 1: Even though he eventually won season seven of Food Network Star,
Speaker 1: his first audition was for a spot on season four.
Speaker 1: Things seem promising at first. When the Food Network producer
Speaker 1: called Jeff back after his first audition with some good news.
Speaker 1: He's like, dude, you're a shoeing. It's like you got this.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, hey man, I hate to break it
Speaker 1: to you, but I'm already scheduled to move back home
Speaker 1: in like six weeks or whatever. So he's like, hey man,
Speaker 1: it's a problem. You can do this from anywhere. So
Speaker 1: we moved back home and I was like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go home. My soul is going to be back in
Speaker 1: Chicago and I'm gonna get the third call back and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get on the show. I did everything I could,
Speaker 1: and it was just like the Cosmos being like, you
Speaker 1: just need to be where you are with your family,
Speaker 1: ready to start your own family. You know, we were
Speaker 1: married at the time. We didn't want to start a family,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to do out in l a if
Speaker 1: you don't have a pot to pisson. And then I
Speaker 1: never got a call back, like never. A couple of
Speaker 1: months went on, and then it was December, which was
Speaker 1: like I don't know, six months, five months after I
Speaker 1: moved back home, and I got a call and it
Speaker 1: was Jennifer Sullivan. She's like, they want to fly you
Speaker 1: out to New York next week for the final round
Speaker 1: of auditions in Audition and Food Network Studios Chelsea Market.
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, that's when it was back then. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, I did it. I made it. I'm done.
Speaker 1: I made it, mom, I'm going to the big times.
Speaker 1: I got the call, so I went there. You know,
Speaker 1: I sat and waited in Chelsea Market next to the
Speaker 1: Lobster Place, and that right there, chugging coffee, smelling wet
Speaker 1: lobster and seafood terrible. It was terrible. That that's a
Speaker 1: terrible corner. Oh and I'm like, oh my god, am
Speaker 1: I gonna get the job? And I killed him. I
Speaker 1: swear I got a standing ovation and I was the
Speaker 1: last one of the night. I missed my flight, so
Speaker 1: I got on the plane early next day. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like a connecting flight through Atlanta. They put me
Speaker 1: in a hotel in Queen's. Only the finest right, only
Speaker 1: the finest thing. So but it was my first time
Speaker 1: in New York. For me, it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: my Mary Tyler more moment. I'm like taking a subway
Speaker 1: to Type Square and twirling about and I'm waiting. I mean,
Speaker 1: I waited by the phone for months, and then I
Speaker 1: finally called the I had the number on my phone.
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, we're sorry, someone should have called you.
Speaker 1: You didn't make the show. And I was crushed. And
Speaker 1: then the next year I was like, let's give it
Speaker 1: a shot. So I threw in a video. Nothing. Year
Speaker 1: after that, like I'll give it one more shot. Nothing.
Speaker 1: And then the fourth time I was like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give it one more shot. And I remember I didn't
Speaker 1: tell Sarah. I was auditioning again, sending in a video.
Speaker 1: Right in Sarah's like, did you send in a video
Speaker 1: to Food Network star this year? And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I did. She's like, well, we should have talked about this.
Speaker 1: I'm like wow, She's like, I don't know, man, I
Speaker 1: think this is it and this is the year. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you don't know nothing about me. I only fail, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm only It's gonna be another no. But
Speaker 1: by that time I was I was running a cafe
Speaker 1: and a building. I was a private show for a
Speaker 1: large mortgage company, so I'd feed three people a day,
Speaker 1: had a couple of people under me. It was an
Speaker 1: ideal job. I got paid decently, great hours, making sandwich,
Speaker 1: just slice in meat. You know, it's like my own deli. Right,
Speaker 1: It's like no risk on my end, It's perfect. I
Speaker 1: sent in the video and then I got a call
Speaker 1: back like a day later. It happened so quick. And
Speaker 1: then they're like, tomorrow, we're putting you on a plane
Speaker 1: back to New York for the final rounds of auditioning.
Speaker 1: And then I went there and I did the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Background check, have you ever smoking? Prostitute? Have you what
Speaker 1: drugs have you done? Have you ever hit somebody? I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I punched a guy a couple of years, probably not listening.
Speaker 1: It was outside my cousin's restaurants. That doesn't count. It
Speaker 1: was scrubbed. But before I got on that plane, she goes,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna make the show. You get on
Speaker 1: that plane and make that show, and you're gonna get
Speaker 1: on the show in our lives are gonna change forever.
Speaker 1: I'm like, God, no way, right, And she was so right,
Speaker 1: because I got off that plane and then it's all
Speaker 1: happened in like six days. It was so fast, right,
Speaker 1: all this pent up energy for like it to happen
Speaker 1: so quick. And they're like, you were flying you out
Speaker 1: January twenty one. I'll never forget the date. You're gonna
Speaker 1: give up all your crap, all your phones, everything, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna live in this house for two and a
Speaker 1: half months, and you're gonna do the show. And if
Speaker 1: you win, you win, you win this. If you don't,
Speaker 1: you can't say nothing for three months and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: You know, so obviously I I went and I ended
Speaker 1: up winning, And Sandwich said Sandwich King right, and I
Speaker 1: knew if I had a good point of view, and
Speaker 1: that point of view was like I was trying to
Speaker 1: carry it through all those other auditions and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is it. In the moment, I kind of like
Speaker 1: set it out loud the first challenge. I think people
Speaker 1: are like, damn, I should have thought of that, you know,
Speaker 1: and when you know, because nobody, nobody staked that claim
Speaker 1: yet that was all mine and nobody said I'm I'm
Speaker 1: gonna teach the fundamentals of queling area through the artistry
Speaker 1: of sandwich creation with a sense of humor. So in
Speaker 1: reality was it was Tony and Tina's wedding. But for real,
Speaker 1: you were like working the tables every night and there
Speaker 1: was no problem. It sounds like it was the easiest
Speaker 1: thing you've ever done. Really, I mean, because I know
Speaker 1: you and it was like, I'm just gonna make something up.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with it. Yeah, So you won season
Speaker 1: seven and how was that? Like, what was the prize
Speaker 1: and what was the back I don't remember what the
Speaker 1: prize was back then. Today, Cash, I'll tell you that much.
Speaker 1: It was it was a show. I got a six
Speaker 1: episode season of Sandwich King that premiered. So the irony
Speaker 1: is because of our ND eight we had to go
Speaker 1: back to work as normal, like we couldn't quit our jobs.
Speaker 1: Of course, if we got fired, it was one thing,
Speaker 1: but especially since I won, They're like, you have to
Speaker 1: go back to work. You have to pretend everything is
Speaker 1: normal in your life. I was like, I've been going.
Speaker 1: People are gonna think I was at rehab or that joined,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I'm not from like
Speaker 1: a place where people like, where were you went to
Speaker 1: to the Kenny Bunkport for the summer? No? You know,
Speaker 1: did you winter in Palm Springs? No? I went to
Speaker 1: you know, it was like either rehab or prison, that's
Speaker 1: the only option. So people were like, where the hell
Speaker 1: do you go? I was like, so my excuse was
Speaker 1: and it was the only Johnny improviser here, right, I
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, I went to learn uh saloon me
Speaker 1: crafting with Mario Batalli in New York City and may
Speaker 1: or may not have been filmed. I swear that's what
Speaker 1: I said, which I thought was pretty good considering like
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, that sounds like pretty cool, and
Speaker 1: I can understand why he went to go do that
Speaker 1: for so long. But uh. And then when it was
Speaker 1: finally announced, the cast was finally announced, it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can breathe, I can stop lying about this fracta
Speaker 1: so you know, Suli Maria Adventure. But then for the
Speaker 1: next thirteen weeks, everybody's like, did you win? Do you
Speaker 1: win this week? Do you go home this week? You
Speaker 1: can tell me. Come on, we know each other, Just
Speaker 1: tell me you win, Just tell them. Oh so much
Speaker 1: of that. And then by the end, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm done. Like I remember, I was supposed to leave.
Speaker 1: My last day was on a Friday. The finale was
Speaker 1: on a Sunday of Food Network Star. I didn't make
Speaker 1: it pass launch on Thursday. I just walked out. The
Speaker 1: owner screwed me, and he told a local news outlet,
Speaker 1: two of them that I won already, and they interviewed me,
Speaker 1: and I spent my last day at work in a
Speaker 1: conference room with the company's legal team in Food Networks
Speaker 1: legal team fanning me with a lawsuit because I preached
Speaker 1: my n d A, which I didn't. Why would I mean,
Speaker 1: I made it that far. I'm not gonna tell the
Speaker 1: guy in the last day that I won, especially the
Speaker 1: news that team was not taking it many people. I
Speaker 1: had the same issue with Iron Chef, who was six
Speaker 1: months and it was like, really, you know, how do
Speaker 1: you contain that it's Kali. It's like your static right,
Speaker 1: You're like, wow, are you like you don't even know
Speaker 1: what's going on. For our fourth and final course, I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask Jeff about his latest book and how
Speaker 1: he's passing time at home during the pandemic. But first
Speaker 1: Jeff and I reflected I wanted his like to launch
Speaker 1: The Kitchen, which we co host together along with Sonny Anderson,
Speaker 1: Alex Gornas, Shelley, Katie Lee, and myself. Your wife was right,
Speaker 1: she said you're gonna do this, is gonna change our lives,
Speaker 1: and it did. And then you got a call for
Speaker 1: I think it was too that I'm fourteen for the Kitchen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember Jesus Man ten years. So we got the call.
Speaker 1: I was at the restaurant and I'm sitting there and
Speaker 1: I get this call and I'm like, oh my god's
Speaker 1: the network And there's like, well, the network calling you
Speaker 1: is the double edged sword. It's good or bad. It's
Speaker 1: never like how you doing, let's talk. It's always like
Speaker 1: why did you do this? Or here's a new job,
Speaker 1: so it's like you never know what it's gonna be,
Speaker 1: or you're being fired or something. So and I we
Speaker 1: auditioned for that show, and I remember, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: had a feeling I was going to be in the show,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I've auditioned enough in my
Speaker 1: life for stuff. I knew when I get the job,
Speaker 1: and I knew I got the job for this, And
Speaker 1: then they kind of told me that much. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: who else is in there? Like, oh, they're still piecing
Speaker 1: together a couple of the other ones. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: who am I being? They're like Sunny. I'm like done,
Speaker 1: I go perfect Joys like Katie. I'm like, oh, that
Speaker 1: would be great. I didn't know where at the time.
Speaker 1: And then I was like please because we auditioned to
Speaker 1: gethers with Jeffrey. I'm like, dude, it is a classic trope, right,
Speaker 1: it's the straight man the funny man. It's been done
Speaker 1: because it works, and it'll work in this format in
Speaker 1: the network. I don't think there's no natural pairing that
Speaker 1: works like that, and it's all new for them. They've
Speaker 1: never done this sort of thing. But man, I was
Speaker 1: so happy when I was like they told me you
Speaker 1: were involved and that all happened on that call, and
Speaker 1: I was like, it was very nerve nerve racking because
Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, what's my schedule going
Speaker 1: to be? Like now, how much am I going to
Speaker 1: be away from home? Is it going to be? It
Speaker 1: might be gone for a month, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like that's like a whole another People don't realize, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the work's great, but all my work takes me away
Speaker 1: from home. So that's like you're excited, but you're also
Speaker 1: nervous because you have this family that depends on you.
Speaker 1: Like we got used to not going anywhere. It was
Speaker 1: awesome and like being at home, like you genuinely love
Speaker 1: your family. I love my family. I don't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, but it only it doesn't get easier. And
Speaker 1: I'll remember I was remember auditioning with you, and I
Speaker 1: remember that Katie, and I remember Marcella, and I remember
Speaker 1: there are so many other characters. I think there were
Speaker 1: five or six auditions which I was I was un
Speaker 1: chopped and I was like, oh yeah, they're gonna call me.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm in, you know, And that was no
Speaker 1: and not it. It was like you got audition. Oh
Speaker 1: my audition, I said, Okay, I thought I was like
Speaker 1: I thought it was like a look see, Well that
Speaker 1: was just stupid of me. But I also thought it
Speaker 1: was a fantastic group of people. And you know they
Speaker 1: they got it right. I told Karen and I told Beth,
Speaker 1: I'll produced the first time. After the first show, I
Speaker 1: think this is gonna last a long time because I said,
Speaker 1: it's authentic and we don't even need it. We don't
Speaker 1: need the script, and we would like pissed that they
Speaker 1: have a script, like get that. Just give me the sandwich,
Speaker 1: will make it. That's fine. We know what to do.
Speaker 1: And that's what today people don't realize about that show
Speaker 1: is there's really no script because we're all very authentic
Speaker 1: at what we do and don't know how to do it.
Speaker 1: I know the producers have to produce it and they
Speaker 1: have to get the beats in, but it's a very
Speaker 1: free willing show, which I think is why people like it,
Speaker 1: because it makes you and everyone who has a personality
Speaker 1: they can be themselves. And I think that's why you
Speaker 1: you bring to the show, this sense of like freewheeling
Speaker 1: fund that that you've learned your stuff and like going
Speaker 1: back to see what you did working Tony and Tina's
Speaker 1: and doing the Delhi and then doing Sandwich King and
Speaker 1: now coming on and basically this must have been like
Speaker 1: a layup because it's like you're doing one of six
Speaker 1: parts and like I gotta rest for five parts that
Speaker 1: this is easy. It really is, and it's not laziness.
Speaker 1: It's the enjoyment of the give and take of an ensemble.
Speaker 1: Like to me, I was like, you know, I'm a
Speaker 1: vitual class clown. You've been you know, in quote unquote
Speaker 1: classrooms with me enough Jeffrey, where you know I thrive
Speaker 1: in that space. And this was like I'm getting paid
Speaker 1: to be a class clown. I mean, like literally, how
Speaker 1: would I So you know, I didn't want to mess
Speaker 1: it up. I don't. I wanted to do my part,
Speaker 1: be serious about the food obviously. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it's like the show gets better because
Speaker 1: we're all evolving along with it in growing having children
Speaker 1: and family. Katie you know, evolved to a marriage and
Speaker 1: then being a mother on her own. In bringing on
Speaker 1: Alex is like this whole different viewpoint. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's such a fun journey and you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I believe you're right. I concur with you that this
Speaker 1: show will last a very long time. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: it's one of those things you can't not watch it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like Entourage or the Sopranos, and the
Speaker 1: Sopranos stopped. They stopped because they had to. If it
Speaker 1: didn't have to, it still would have been on because
Speaker 1: it's very topical and it's you relate to it, and
Speaker 1: that's why I think the show works. So you're here,
Speaker 1: this is one you just published an incredible book, Come
Speaker 1: on over, which is I've read it and it's so you.
Speaker 1: And I think the first time I saw the jacket
Speaker 1: with you with the phone and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is so perfect. And I think that, you know, we
Speaker 1: used to review all the time because you know, everybody
Speaker 1: had a book on the show. I didn't have a book.
Speaker 1: You don't have a book, And it was like so
Speaker 1: mean but so funny, but it makes so much sense.
Speaker 1: It's it's perfect. Yeah, it's a bear man, it's you know.
Speaker 1: I think why I didn't have a book until this
Speaker 1: year was the work involved. I mean, I was busy
Speaker 1: enough to I want to add more like sitting down
Speaker 1: writing time, which is hard to find, and I knew
Speaker 1: I wanted to make it great and there was nothing.
Speaker 1: When that title came to me, I was like, now
Speaker 1: I can write this book. I know what this book
Speaker 1: is going to be about. Who's in a homage to
Speaker 1: and what recipes will be in there, and what stories
Speaker 1: And it just flew out of me quickly. I mean
Speaker 1: not quickly. I mean it takes two years from start
Speaker 1: to finish to get a book on the shelves from
Speaker 1: the inception of it. And I wrote this book. I mean,
Speaker 1: like the head notes some are very lengthy, two pages long,
Speaker 1: which might be a little much, but I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to get the stories. Now It's like
Speaker 1: you publish a book and you're like, hey, I can
Speaker 1: make the next one even better because I know how
Speaker 1: to write a cookbook now, be I have so many
Speaker 1: more recipes and stories that I want to put out there.
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying I want And of course, what's
Speaker 1: better than a cookbook? Two cookbooks? So what's happening? What's
Speaker 1: what's on the horizon for you? I see you're surrounded
Speaker 1: by the instruments. You're a very prolific musician. You love music,
Speaker 1: and on the set you're always playing. Much of the
Speaker 1: chagrine of some of your co hosts to listen to
Speaker 1: you play the same fucking rift four times. I know.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. During they had me in a separate
Speaker 1: room and they moved my room temporarily, they said, because
Speaker 1: I was so loud playing guitar and singing. So I apologize.
Speaker 1: It keeps me fresh, you know, when I can. Part
Speaker 1: of my job right is to be quick as quick
Speaker 1: as humanly possible on that show, right, like to come
Speaker 1: up with that singer as quick as possible. I keep
Speaker 1: myself tight by playing the music in between. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I play every day. I have a band.
Speaker 1: They were just over yesterday. We were rehearsing, and we
Speaker 1: play out. We've had We've had three gigs so far.
Speaker 1: I love it. And they're all guys that live blocks
Speaker 1: from me. It's a basement dad band I call ourselves.
Speaker 1: All our sons are friends. By the way, they're all
Speaker 1: the same age, so we party together no matter what.
Speaker 1: We might as well play music. My model in the
Speaker 1: house is, you know, we create something every day here,
Speaker 1: whether it's a podcast or a song or whatever. Just
Speaker 1: use our creative spirit. Anyway possible, and this just adds
Speaker 1: to that and it makes me happy. It's my thing.
Speaker 1: We could talk all day, because we we always talk
Speaker 1: all day, but it's the pleasure to spend an hour
Speaker 1: with you. You're the best. You know, Thank you too.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody listening Jeffrey is my Everybody asked you
Speaker 1: who's your who's your greatest mentor? And I always answer
Speaker 1: you and you're like, well, that's you know, obviously you're
Speaker 1: just being I was like, no, you're You're somebody most
Speaker 1: definitely to look up to, and I mean that. Thank you,
Speaker 1: jeff Thank you for spending time. Have a fantastic afternoon
Speaker 1: and a great weekend. Ma man fucko, thanks very much
Speaker 1: for listening to Four Courses with Jeffrey Zcurian, a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Corner Table Entertainment. Four Courses
Speaker 1: is created by Jeffrey Zcurian, Margaret Scarrion, Jared Keller, and
Speaker 1: Tara Helper. Our exact producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Four Courses
Speaker 1: is produced by Jonathan Haws Dressler. Our research is conducted
Speaker 1: by Jesselyn Shields. Our talent booking is by Pamela Bauer
Speaker 1: at Dogtown Talent This episode was edited and written by
Speaker 1: Priya Mahadevan and mixed by Joe Tistle. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: Katie Fellman for help as recording engineer. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.