1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: In the span of five years, Emma Rain lost two 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: husbands to murder. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 2: Nothing was adding up. There wasn't a motive that was 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: clear other than the fact that we knew this woman's 5 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: last two husbands were also found dead in sort of 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 2: mysterious circumstances. 7 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: And then finally the police closed in on the killer, 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: but then he disappeared. 9 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: We had somebody killing husbands to make a living, and 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: that's scary. 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: Today we're in New Orleans, Louisiana, for the conclusion of 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: bodies on the Bayou. I'm Sloan Glass and this is 13 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: American homicide. And just a warning that this episode contains 14 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: some graphic content. Please take care while listening. With winds 15 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: of over one hundred and fifty five miles per hour, 16 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans in August two thousand and five. 17 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: The Category five storm brought massive flooding and devastation that 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: forced tens of thousands of New Orleans residence to evacuate. 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 3: Not everybody came back, but crime was one of the 20 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: first things to come back to the city. 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: Journalist John Simmerman writes for The Advocate newspaper the. 22 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 3: Police department in New Orleans was in chaos. During that time, 23 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 3: it was pretty lawless around here after Katrina. 24 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: Katrina forced hundreds of people who worked as police officers 25 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: to evacuate, and the flooding kept many from returning. The 26 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: police can't protect the city from a hurricane, only from 27 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: what comes later. The question is after Katrina, can New 28 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: Orleans police come back as quickly as crime An understaffed 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: and overwhelmed New Orleans PD had to patrol a city 30 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: that historically has had a high murder rate. 31 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 3: There was a run there where it was the per 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,919 Speaker 3: capital leader in homicides in America. It's you know, first, second, third, fourth. 33 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: Every year it's up there. We have a murder problem 34 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: in New Orleans. 35 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: The crime rate in New Orleans usually runs about one 36 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty percent higher than the national average. That's remarkable. 37 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: So with more crime and fewer cops, many of the 38 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: post Katrina murders went unsolved. 39 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: That was tough. 40 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 3: That was tough. I don't think their success rate in 41 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 3: closing murder cases very high back then. 42 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: The case of Ernest Smith was one of those unsolved 43 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: cold cases. As we shared in the previous episode, Ernest 44 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: was murdered in front of his New Orleans home. In 45 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: April two thousand and. 46 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 3: Six, somebody came up on him and shot him in 47 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 3: the doorway there. Apparently he'd fallen into the house the 48 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: bottom of a stairwell inside there, which had sort of 49 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 3: created a bloody seen. 50 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: The police investigated, but there were no arrests. 51 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: It was still barren around there. There weren't a lot 52 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 3: of people living out there. I mean, if you were 53 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: going to kill somebody, that wouldn't be a bad place 54 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 3: to do it. 55 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: After the case went cold, his widow, Emma, moved to Mississippi. 56 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: A year later. She married Ernest's military buddy James Rain. 57 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: After his killing, it was long before she had moved 58 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: back there, ed and settled into a house that was 59 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 3: bankrolled in part by the insurance money from Ernest Smith. 60 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: By twenty eleven, tragedy struck Emma yet again. 61 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: James Rain was killed. He was shot up badly at 62 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: the house he shared with Emma Rain. It looked to 63 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: be very deliberate. 64 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: That's when James's step brother, Alfred Everett, started acting strangely. 65 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: His relatives noticed he appeared nervous and uncomfortable and wondered 66 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: if maybe he knew something about James's murder. The family 67 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: questioned him, but Alfred said he had nothing to do 68 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: with it. But after a lot of back and forth, 69 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: he shocked them all when he admitted to a different murder. 70 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: Alfred Everett had told them that he had shot Ernest 71 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: Smith and said he threw the gun and like Pontchatrain 72 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 3: on his way back to Mississippi. 73 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: After the shooting, Alfred said he killed Ernest for a 74 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: few thousand dollars, but he never got paid. 75 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 3: You didn't get that he got two clunker cars, said 76 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 3: from James Rain. 77 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: Alfred said Emma and James were having an affair at 78 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: the time, and the two wanted Ernest dead so they 79 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: could collect his life insurance, a policy, by the way, 80 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: that Emma had just increased. 81 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 3: In the months before Ernest Smith's killing. She had not 82 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 3: only ratcheted up her insurance policy but also added James 83 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 3: Rain as a fifty to fifty beneficiary. 84 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: After this confession, Alfred promised his relatives that he'd go 85 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: to the police and tell them everything, but instead he disappeared. 86 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 3: Eventually, they called police themselves and turn him in. 87 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, they phoned Detective Descenda Barnes of the 88 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: New Orleans PD. 89 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 3: Descenda Barnes was a cold case detective, and family members 90 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 3: of James Rain called her wanting to relay information that 91 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 3: Alfred Evert had shot Ernest Smith. 92 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: Detective Barnes real opened preacher Ernest Smith's cold case started 93 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: digging into the strange dynamic between Emma, her second husband James, 94 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 1: and his stepbrother Alfred. Prosecutor Laura Roderick also worked the case. 95 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: I remember saying to her what is going on here 96 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: and her kind of breaking it down for me and 97 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: explaining to me what was her take on things. 98 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: The first thing they looked at was the police report 99 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: from the night Ernest Smith was murdered. 100 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: He is shot two times and killed. He is clearly 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: shot outside, first stumbles his way inside and collapses on 102 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: the steps where he will subsequently die. There was blood 103 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: spatter by his feet which would go almost to the 104 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: floor at the bottom of the steps and toward the 105 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: front door where he had come in and collapsed on 106 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: the steps. 107 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: Emma told detectives she was upstairs in bed when she 108 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: awoke to the sound of Ernest calling out for help 109 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: in the doorway of their town home. 110 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: Emma Rane tells the detective that she had been upstairs 111 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: sleeping in her bed the whole night because she had 112 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: a terrible toothache and she had taken some over the 113 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: counterpane medication. While in the crime scene photos, the bed 114 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: was perfectly made, so it didn't seem to make any 115 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 2: sense that she had been in her bed all day. 116 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: We certainly wouldn't have expected her to hurry up and 117 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: quickly make her bed before the police arrived as her 118 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: husband was dead on the steps. 119 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: The report also noted that Emma looked pristine. 120 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: She didn't have a drop of blood on her, no 121 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: indication she had hugged him, touched him, nothing as he 122 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: died on the stairs. 123 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: It turns out that none of what Emma told detectives 124 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: on the night of Ernest Smith's murder fit with the 125 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: physical evidence. 126 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: The blood was completely perfect, there were no footprints, nothing 127 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: was smeared, which indicated that she could not have been 128 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 2: in her bed upstairs sleeping, because she would have had 129 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: to go around him and step into the blood in 130 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 2: order to go outside call the police anything of that nature. 131 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: There was just simply no indication that she had been upstairs, 132 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: so that did not add up, and there was more 133 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: Emma rain sat in the police unit for a while 134 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: as they were sort of navigating through the scene, and 135 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: it was during that time that it was learned via 136 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: the phone records that either a phone call or a 137 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: text message of some communication had gone to James Rain 138 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: from the crime scene that night. 139 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: As bad as things look for Emma, it was Alfred Everett, 140 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: the step brother of her second husband, who pulled the trigger. 141 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: After coming clean to some of his relatives, Alfred disappeared. 142 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,679 Speaker 1: By the summer of twenty thirteen, the police located him 143 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: in Texas. 144 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: Alfred Everett was charged with murder. He was the gunman 145 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 2: who killed Ernest Smith. 146 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: They arrested Alfred, but he wasn't talking, so detectives then 147 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: turned their attention to Emma, who was looking less like 148 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: a grieving widow and more like a conniving killer. 149 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: So we believed that Emma Rain had orchestrated the plan. 150 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 2: She had through probably James Rain acquired the assistance of 151 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: Alfred Everett. I guess James, who knew him better than anybody, 152 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: knew he would be somebody willing to do this. 153 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: When detectives did a deep dive into her past, they 154 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: learned Emma had another husband before Ernest. 155 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: Emma's first husband, we learned, was a man named Leroy Evans. 156 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: And guess what. Back in nineteen ninety three, something terrible 157 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: happened to Leroy. 158 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: He was tragically hit by a vehicle. We weren't able 159 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 2: to determine if there was any foul play in the 160 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 2: actual traffic accident, but he did become a paraplegic. 161 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: After the incident, Leroy was paralyzed from the neck down, 162 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: leaving him bedridden. 163 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: Rather than Emma take care of him, Leroy went to 164 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: stay with his mother so she would care for him 165 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: on a daily basis. He had a room where he 166 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: would lay in bed for most of the day. He 167 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: had a feeding tube that was necessary for him to survive. 168 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: And then one day, LeRoy's feeding tube was mysteriously removed. 169 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: So the mother of mister Evans told our investigator that 170 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 2: Emma Rain was the last person in his room before 171 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: his feeding tube had been removed, and he died of 172 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: what the corner determined was asphyxiation. Mister Evans's mother certainly 173 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: suspected fell play of Emma Rain and that she had 174 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: caused his death. That's how she felt, so that was 175 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: very alarming to us. 176 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: But no charges were ever filed. And the strange thing 177 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: is no relatives of Ernest Smith or James Rain knew 178 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: Emma had been married to Lee roy Evans. Lee roy 179 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: Evans died in nineteen ninety four, and according to Ernest's obituary, 180 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: it said Emma married Ernest in nineteen ninety Let me 181 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: read you one sentence from his obituary. He was united 182 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: in holy matrimony to Emma Judge on November seventeenth, nineteen 183 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: ninety Who is the love of his life, his soulmate, 184 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: his bay, as he often calls her. 185 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: That's where you sort of have to say, all right, 186 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 2: what's going on here? 187 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: Finally, investigators saw this string of dead husbands with hefty 188 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: insurance policies and labeled Emma the black widow. 189 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 2: The money was the most important, and she wanted that 190 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: money more than anything. 191 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: Detectives didn't think Emma could be any more cold blooded 192 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: than that, but what they learn next proved them all wrong. 193 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: Over nearly two decades, Emma Rain lost three husbands and 194 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: the evidence against her was piling up. 195 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 2: If she was willing to kill her own husband in 196 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 2: exchange for a check, she was willing to do anything 197 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: and that's scary. 198 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Laura Rodrick learned that in the months before her husband, 199 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: Ernest Smith died, Emma made her boyfriend and eventual husband, 200 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: James Rain, a beneficiary for half of Ernest's eight hundred 201 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: thousand dollars life insurance policy. 202 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: What Emma Rain did not realize was Louisiana law would 203 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: prohibit James Rain from coming in to collect his four 204 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: hundred thousand because Ernest Smith had a biological daughter. 205 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: But Ernest's daughter never received that insurance money. 206 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: Emma Raine's biological daughter goes into an office and forges 207 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 2: the name of Ernest Smith's biological daughter. So essentially all 208 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: of the eight hundred thousand dollars is awarded to Emma 209 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: Rain through fraudulent activity. 210 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: So not only did Emma have Ernest Smith killed, but 211 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: she also cheated his daughter, his only child, out of 212 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: money from his life insurance policy. 213 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: It was alarming to us to see the lack of 214 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 2: concern that Emma had for her daughter, that she would 215 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: put her daughter in that position, that she had no 216 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 2: problem with her daughter getting a felony conviction for doing that. 217 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: There's so many terrible things Emma was accused of doing, 218 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: but maybe one of the most galling happened on the 219 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: day of James Rayne's murder. 220 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: James Rain is in his home at the time that 221 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 2: he's murdered. Emma Rain tells the police that she's on 222 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: a business trip trying to make a deal work, and 223 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 2: she's not at home. It was actually not much business 224 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: going on at all. She was involved in a physical 225 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: relationship with the man she was with in Arkansas at 226 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: the time James is killed. In fact, the authorities get 227 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: a statement from him where he says she gets the 228 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: phone call, she learns that James is dead. We popped 229 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: some champagne and had sex to celebrate. She calls it 230 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: completing a business deal. The man she was with advises 231 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: as they actually were drinking and having sex to celebrate 232 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: the death of James Rain. 233 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: Okay, now that is so beyond cold blooded, and there's 234 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 1: actually more to the story, if you remember, Emma later 235 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: called James's mother and had her check on James, even 236 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: though Emma knew James was dead. Imagine knowing you were 237 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: setting up a mother to see that. 238 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: In other words, it seems as if she was intentionally 239 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: louring James's mother over to find him dead. In the home. 240 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: You know, she had no sympathy. She just was really cold. 241 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: Cold to allow his mother to find him in that way, 242 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: it would be something they felt was sort of the 243 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: final twisting of the knife. It was intentionally cruel and 244 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: it just showed her character. 245 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: Late in the summer of twenty thirteen, detectives charged Emma 246 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: with the death of her second husband, Ernest Smith. And 247 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: guess what. At the time of her arrest, she was 248 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: no longer Emma Rain. She had already moved on to 249 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: husband number four. 250 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: Emma and her fourth husband were living in Kansas City, 251 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: Missouri at the time that she was arrested for the murders. 252 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: And when detectives told Emma she was being charged with 253 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: the murder of her husband, Emma asked which husband. As 254 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: Emma waited her trial, her hired gun Alfred Everett, was 255 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: tried in twenty fourteen. He was charged with killing Emma's 256 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: second husband, Ernest Smith. 257 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: Alfred Everett was charged with murder and he was convicted 258 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: of murder. The penalty will be life in prison. 259 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: The jury needed less than an hour to convict him, 260 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: and with that, prosecutors turn their attention to Emma Rain's 261 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: upcoming trial. 262 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: As a prosecutor, we don't have the opportunity to speak 263 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: one on one with the defendants who are charged with crimes. 264 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: Rarely do we ever get to actually speak to them 265 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 2: or ask them any questions or anything of that nature. 266 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: The most that we can do to glimpse sort of 267 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: their personality or what's going on is to listen to 268 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: recorded phone calls during their incarceration. 269 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: So what kind of things did the prosecutor learn about 270 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: Emma from listening to her phone calls from jail. 271 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: She would make demands of the jail. She wanted low 272 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: fat chocolate chip cookies, certain things that you know, she 273 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: just felt like she was entitled to, and she encouraged 274 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: the young female inmates to sort of take on those 275 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: causes with her. 276 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: Prosecutors may have heard Emma demanding lofact cookies, but there 277 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: was one thing they wanted to hear but did not. 278 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: She never gave me the impression of any remorse at 279 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: all for any of the family members who were going 280 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: through this. She never so much has even cared to 281 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: see the pain that the families were going through in 282 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: dealing with the process of their loved ones being murdered 283 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: and trying to get to the bottom of the crimes 284 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: and trying to piece these puzzles together. It just did 285 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: not matter at all. 286 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: And this is an odd thing. As her trial day 287 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: got closer, prosecutors were having a hard time getting anyone 288 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: to testify against her. I think that people were nervous 289 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: to come forward in the case against Emma because they 290 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: they were worried about what more she could accomplish if 291 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: she wanted to. Then, in more bad news, a ruling 292 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: came from the judge that prohibited prosecutors from calling Emma 293 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: Rain a suspect in the death of her husband number one, 294 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: Leeroy Evans. They were also limited in what they could 295 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: say about the death of husband three, James Rain. 296 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 2: It got extremely complicated. So this was a different case 297 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: in terms of how we had to present it. 298 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: So prosecutors offered Emma a deal. If she pled guilty 299 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: to manslaughter, she'd get thirty five years, but Emma turned 300 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: down the deal. 301 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: She was constantly kind of wheeling and dealing. 302 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: When the trial began, Emma Rain was fifty two years 303 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: old and face life in prison for the second degree 304 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: murder of Ernest Smith. Her defense lawyer blamed Emma's third husband, 305 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: James Rain, who was dead and obviously couldn't defend himself. 306 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: Emma's lawyer referred to James Rain as James the Snake 307 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: and claimed it was James who manipulated Emma into upping 308 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: Ernest Rain's insurance policy. Most importantly, the lawyer argued that 309 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: James alone got Alfred Everett to kill Ernest Smith. 310 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: Alfred Everett he was sort of the last man standing 311 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: who could testify against her. 312 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: Alfred had already been convicted and sentenced to life, but 313 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: he could set the record straight. Alfred was called as 314 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: a witness, but he refused to take the witness stand 315 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: or answer any questions from prosecutors. Instead, he defiantly sat 316 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: in the courtroom while the puzzled jurors looked on. 317 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 2: You could kind of get a read on some of 318 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: their faces, like not knowing what to make of it. 319 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: So prosecutors went to Plan B and called three of 320 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: James's relatives to testify. 321 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: Those were the three people who had sort of broken 322 00:18:59,320 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: this case. 323 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: Each one of those relatives described Alfred's confession. 324 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: That James Rain and Emma Rain were in on it, 325 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: that there was a life insurance policy and that's why 326 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: he shot Ernest Smith. He describes having shot him twice, 327 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 2: evidence that is consistent with the crime scene. 328 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: But as she sat through the damning testimony from the 329 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:27,719 Speaker 1: prosecution side, Emma was quiet, just jotting down notes on 330 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: a notepad, just. 331 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 2: Zero emotion through the trial, no sign that any of 332 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 2: this had affected her in any way. 333 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: Emma Rain did not take the stand in her own defense. 334 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: In fact, the defense did not call a single witness. 335 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 2: At the end of the day. We did not believe 336 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: that she had genuine love for any of these men. 337 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: It was a business deal in her mind, but she 338 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 2: was very good at disguising that this was somebody killing 339 00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 2: husbands to make a living. 340 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: It was up to the eight women and four men 341 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: of the jury to decide if Emma Rain was indeed 342 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: a black widow. Emma Rain was a suspect in the 343 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: death of her first and third husbands, but she was 344 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,719 Speaker 1: only charged with murdering her second husband, preacher Ernest Smith. 345 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 3: The prosecution was telling about this woman who seemed to 346 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 3: either be bad luck or worse for the men she married. 347 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: Journalist John Simmerman covered the trial, where prosecutors labeled the 348 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: three time widower and Moraine a black widow. 349 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 3: Well, that was a term that the prosecution used, black widow, 350 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 3: which is a term for a woman who marries somebody 351 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: and kills them and maybe does it repeatedly, So she 352 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 3: kind of fit that definition. 353 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: At the time of Emma Raine's trial, she was married 354 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: a fourth time, but husband number four did not attend 355 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: Emma's trial. He told reporters the New Orleans judicial system 356 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: was corrupt and said he had paid for her legal 357 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: bills from back home and Missouri, and those bills, he said, 358 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: had nearly bankrupt him. In the courtroom, Emma's lawyer blamed 359 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: husband number three, James Rain, for the murder for higher 360 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: pot of husband number two, Ernest Smith. 361 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 3: He basically said that Emma Rain didn't know about this. 362 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 3: This was all James's plan. 363 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: Keep in mind, James Rain was also murdered and he 364 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: obviously could not defend himself. 365 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 3: What Emma Raine's attorney tried to do was say, look, 366 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 3: there's no physical evidence. There were no text messages and 367 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 3: emails back and forth with James Rain on any murder plot. 368 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: But prosecutor Laura Rodrig hoped jurors could connect. 369 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: All the dots. This is a case that did not 370 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: have a lot of direct evidence. There were no eyewitnesses. 371 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: We were using what we call circumstantial evidence. We knew 372 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: that this jury was going to be shot once they 373 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: realized the intricacies of this case, and we could see 374 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 2: that in their faces as the facts started to unfold. 375 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 1: So she resorted to using charts and graphs to show 376 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: the relationship between all the major players in the case. 377 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 2: One of the things we had to show the jury 378 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: was sort of a simplified family tree. We had to 379 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 2: put that up on a large board in front of them, 380 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 2: where we had diagrammed Alfred Everett, James Rain, how they 381 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 2: all fit in as a family, and where Ernest Smith 382 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: and Emmeraine came into that family tree. And we similarly 383 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: had to do sort of a flow chart for the 384 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: insurance policies, showing them the increase in the amount of 385 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: the policy over the years leading up to Ernest's death, 386 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 2: the forging of the signatures to get the policy all 387 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: released to Ammeraine, and several sort of steps in laying 388 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 2: out that story for the jury. 389 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: Liberated for three and a half hours before returning to 390 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: the courtroom with a verdict. 391 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: I remember Emma her typical self in terms of being 392 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 2: very calm, you know, she didn't seem rattled, she didn't 393 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 2: seem worried about what was going to happen. 394 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: Emma stared straight ahead when the verdict echoed through the courtroom. 395 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: Guilty Emma Rain, who was convicted of murder. The penalty 396 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:27,479 Speaker 2: will be life in prison. 397 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: And coincidentally, Emma Rain's sentencing for the murder of preacher 398 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: Ernest Smith happened on the five year anniversary of husband 399 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: James Rain's death. 400 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: This was somebody who had no regard for human life 401 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: at all and would intentionally lure them in solely to 402 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: use them as sort of a lottery ticket, you know, 403 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: and it was an automatic win. We don't see somebody 404 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: who is that sort of cold to the core very often. 405 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: If using the widow card, essentially it was going to 406 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 2: help her get what she wanted. She had no problem 407 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: doing that. 408 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: Emma's fourth husband disagreed. He was livid and told the 409 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: Associated Press, I think the whole thing was fabricated. It 410 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: was a setup and it wasn't right. She didn't have 411 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: anyone killed, and she didn't kill anyone. And even after 412 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: being convicted of murder, Emma's legal problems were far from over. 413 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: Emma didn't just cheat on her husband's she also cheated 414 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: on her taxes. The government charged her with federal bankruptcy 415 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: and tax fraud. She pled guilty to one of those 416 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: counts and received a two year sentence that ran concurrently 417 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: with her life sentence. She also had to pay restitution 418 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: of over ninety four thousand dollars. Want to guess how 419 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: she paid that? Tab Journalist John Simmerman reported on the story. 420 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 3: One of the interesting things about this case is because 421 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 3: she ended up getting the insurance money in James Raine's killing. 422 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: So Emma used the payout of life insurance from husband 423 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: number three, James Rain, to pay back the IRS. 424 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: The judge saw no reason not to give it to 425 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 3: her because no evidence was presented to suggest that Emma 426 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: Rain was involved in James rain Is killing. 427 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: In his ruling, the judge wrote that it would be 428 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: nothing more than speculation that Emma killed James Rain and 429 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: awarded her just over two hundred and forty eight thousand dollars. 430 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 3: Ninety thousand of it I believe went from that settlement 431 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 3: to pay her past tax debs. 432 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: It's another example of the unexplainable hold Emma seemed to 433 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 1: have over men. Lost in this story of three dead 434 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: husbands is that the twenty eleven murder of Emma's third husband, 435 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: James Rain, remains unsolved, although it sits outside her jurisdic, 436 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: New Orleans Prosecutor Laura Rodrig continues to watch it from 437 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: a distance. 438 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 2: So that investigation essentially is still ongoing. 439 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: Emma has an alibi, and the police don't believe she 440 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: directly was the killer. 441 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 2: She was out of the state. There's a witness who 442 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 2: indicates she was with him, so we don't believe she 443 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 2: pulled the trigger. So that means there's somebody out there 444 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 2: who knows what happened. 445 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: Do you remember how em n James Rain's house had 446 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: a big, fancy security system and how it wasn't working 447 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: on the night that James was murdered. 448 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 2: The detectives learned that the last person seen in the 449 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: footage was Emma Raine until the footage all goes off, 450 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 2: so they see her approach the box or the main 451 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: area where you control the surveillance equipment, and then the 452 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: equipment is sort of shut off. Essentially, it was turned off, 453 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: they believe by Emma Rain. 454 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: As of twenty twenty five, no one has been charged 455 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: in the twenty eleven murder of James Rain. 456 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 2: It's interesting to wonder why James thought he would be 457 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 2: different from the rest, because it was very clear that 458 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 2: Emma Rain was not capable of loving another human anymore, 459 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 2: or even to the same extent that she loved herself. 460 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 2: Most people who came across her were shocked to ultimately 461 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 2: find out that this was happening. They were shocked to 462 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 2: find out that this person they had trusted could have 463 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 2: been capable of something like this. 464 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: The person who seemed to be the most shocked and 465 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: disturbed by Emma was Apostle Jackson, preacher Ernest Smith's mentor 466 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: and father figure. 467 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 4: How do you just take someone like how people just 468 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 4: take some out of life. I'm telling you, supposed to 469 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 4: love this man, He's supposed to be in your heart. 470 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: How can you do that? 471 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: Back in two thousand and six, when Emma and Ernest's 472 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: marriage was strained, Apostle gave Ernest marital advice that continues 473 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: to haunt him today. 474 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 4: I convinced him that he needed to give his marriage 475 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 4: another chance and need to forget him forgive and I 476 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 4: live on that every day. So I'm still walking in guilt. 477 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 4: It's been since two thousand and six. I'm still walking 478 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 4: in guilt. If I had not told him that the 479 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 4: Word of God said that he had to forgive and 480 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 4: he had to be with his wife, he probably would 481 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 4: be alive today. That's a burden to carry, you know 482 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 4: what you think about it. 483 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: Of course, if Apostle had a do over, he would 484 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: have told Ernest to leave Emma. 485 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 4: She lost something that was awesome. She destroyed it. She 486 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 4: could have had a great life. But look at her 487 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 4: life now. She's in prison. She needs to stay there 488 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 4: every day and not ever ever get out. But I do. 489 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: Forgive Apostle forgave Emma. He was a preacher, That's just 490 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: how he was. But Apostle might also want to consider 491 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: apologizing to his wife, Carolyn. On that feedful night in 492 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, when Emma called Apostle to say 493 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: that Ernest was dead, he hung up the phone and 494 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: shared the news with Carolyn. 495 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 4: Then my wife, He just said, just like this, she 496 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 4: killed him. 497 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 3: She killed him. 498 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 5: Those are my words to my husband. 499 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: That morning, Carolyn said she always had a bad feeling 500 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: about Emma that she just couldn't shake. 501 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 5: Those are not thoughts that you think about. Those are 502 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 5: not things that you can even imagine within yourself. You 503 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 5: don't even think like that. You know, then boom is 504 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 5: in your face. This is only something you hear about 505 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 5: on the TV show. You know, like, you never think 506 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 5: this was something that would happen in real life, especially 507 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 5: to someone that you know personally. So I don't know 508 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 5: what Emma was thinking that day. 509 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: Carolyn had her suspicions all along, but Apostle couldn't imagine 510 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: Emma being a murderer. 511 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 4: You just couldn't convince me that this nice woman could 512 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 4: have a husband killed. Just couldn't convince me of it. 513 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 4: I did not accept that. I did not want to 514 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 4: believe that, and it took me a long time to 515 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 4: believe that, even though she was my wife. It still 516 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 4: took me a long time to even think that someone 517 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 4: could take someone like It really made me be aware 518 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 4: that peoples that you trust could actually be wicked, even 519 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 4: when they don't look it. 520 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: Next time on American Homicide, when four women are murdered 521 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: and they're Louisiana homes, the investigation turns into a power 522 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: struggle that allowed one of the state's most prolific serial 523 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: killers to roam free. We'll head to Baton Rouge for 524 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: the case of the serial killer of South Louisiana. That's 525 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: next time on American Homicide. You can contact the American 526 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: Homicide Team by emailing us at American Homicide Pod at 527 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. That's American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com. 528 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: American Homicide is hosted and written by me Sloan Glass 529 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: and is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of 530 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show 531 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Todd Gans. The 532 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: series is also written and produced by Todd Gans, with 533 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: additional writing by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Our associate 534 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: producer is Kristin Melcurrie. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry 535 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: and Jessica Crimecheck. Audio editing, mixing and mastering by Nico Aaruka. 536 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: American Homicides theme song was composed by all Oliver Baines 537 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: of Noisier Music Library provided by my Music. Follow American 538 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: Homicide on Apple Podcasts and please rate and review American Homicide. 539 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: Your five star review goes a long way towards helping 540 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: others find this show. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit 541 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.