WEBVTT - From the Archives: Huma Abedin’s Sliding Doors

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<v Speaker 1>This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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<v Speaker 1>thing from iHeart Radio. The saying used to be behind

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<v Speaker 1>every great man is a great woman. But considering my

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<v Speaker 1>guest today, perhaps that should read behind every great woman

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<v Speaker 1>is a great woman. Huma Aberdeen is someone who has

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<v Speaker 1>spent her entire career in public service. Her work with

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<v Speaker 1>Hillary Rodham Clinton began as a young aide in the

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<v Speaker 1>First Lady's office, then as a senior advisor to the Senator,

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<v Speaker 1>deputy chief of staff to the Secretary of State, and

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<v Speaker 1>now as her chief of staff. Abdeen's decades of collaboration

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<v Speaker 1>with Clinton bring to mind Richard Nixon's farewell speech to

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<v Speaker 1>his White House staff, who noted, quote, this house has

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<v Speaker 1>a great heart, and that heart comes from those who

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<v Speaker 1>serve now. Huma Aberdeen has written an intimate and revealing

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<v Speaker 1>best selling memoir on her life, entitled Both And. The

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<v Speaker 1>book covers her time working in government as well as

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<v Speaker 1>her personal struggles, including a very public divorce from former

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<v Speaker 1>Congressman Anthony Weener. With such a substantial career in politics,

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to know if Aberdeen's upbringing is what set

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<v Speaker 1>her on the path to where she is today.

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<v Speaker 2>My mother is a sociologist. My father studied American civilization,

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<v Speaker 2>which that's one of the reasons he ended up in

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<v Speaker 2>Penn They don't really teach it or have that course

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<v Speaker 2>in many universities now. Yeah, and then they they are

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<v Speaker 2>from two countries that were at war, and so they

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<v Speaker 2>decided they got asylum here and moved to Michigan and

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<v Speaker 2>they My dad taught at Western Michigan. My mom taught

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<v Speaker 2>at Kalamazoo College.

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<v Speaker 1>How long were they living here before you were born

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<v Speaker 1>or had you been born? I was you were born here.

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<v Speaker 2>I was born here and when I was two, and

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<v Speaker 2>we thought we were going to say here forever. I

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<v Speaker 2>Actually I have this whole thing in my life about

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<v Speaker 2>sliding doors. It's not maybe very healthy, but like what if,

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<v Speaker 2>what if? What if? And I've often thought about what

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<v Speaker 2>my life would have been like if I had lived

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<v Speaker 2>that Midwestern life, which I almost did. But when I

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<v Speaker 2>was too my dad was diagnosed with basically you know,

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<v Speaker 2>terminal illness. He was renal failure and his doctor said,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you have five to ten years and get

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<v Speaker 2>your affairs in order. How long did he live after

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<v Speaker 2>the diagnosed, Well, it's amazing that doctor was exactly right.

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<v Speaker 2>His kidneys survived ten years to the day they failed.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's one of the first lines I wrote in

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<v Speaker 2>my book. My dad was told he was dying.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if I ever want to see

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<v Speaker 1>that doctor.

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<v Speaker 2>It was amazing, I mean amaze. But the difference between

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy seven in Kalamazoo, Michigan and thankfully nine years later,

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<v Speaker 2>the possibility of getting on the transplant list became, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>something real, which only happened because my mother was so tenacious.

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<v Speaker 2>So he then went on dialysis. So he lived till

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<v Speaker 2>I was.

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<v Speaker 1>Seventeen, and when did you go over there?

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<v Speaker 2>So two months after his diagnosis, my parents had an

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<v Speaker 2>option to take a sabbatical and their choice was either

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<v Speaker 2>Italy or Saudi Arabia. And then well, interestingly, they had

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<v Speaker 2>always decided. They had always thought they would go to Italy.

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<v Speaker 2>They thought it would be this great adventure, they'd go

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<v Speaker 2>to Italy. And then my father gets this diagnosis and

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<v Speaker 2>he thought, you know, I want to teach my children

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<v Speaker 2>about their culture, about their faith. We're a Muslim family.

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<v Speaker 2>It seemed like more of an interesting and it was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just a year. So they said, why don't

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<v Speaker 2>we do Saudi. It was definitely the hardest choice. My

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<v Speaker 2>mother actually said, when you know, my father said let's

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<v Speaker 2>go to Saudi, She's like, and I was too. She says,

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<v Speaker 2>they even have diapers in that country. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>about how intrepid they were. They landed, they didn't speak

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<v Speaker 2>the language. My mother all of a sudden had to

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<v Speaker 2>veil herself actually.

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<v Speaker 1>Italy, Saudi Arabia, Italy.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they decided that, you know, there they could.

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<v Speaker 2>It was more of a challenge, and I think they

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<v Speaker 2>liked that. My mother taught herself Arabic to teach her students,

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<v Speaker 2>and then after a year they actually decided to come

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<v Speaker 2>back and then come back, and that was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>forty four years ago. They kept going to teach. My

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<v Speaker 2>mother taught sociology, and my dad, you know, he arted

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<v Speaker 2>very early on. He he taught a few years been

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<v Speaker 2>very early on. He opened a foundation. And that's actually

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<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons. Even though the foundation was based

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<v Speaker 2>in London, but it was a foundation that produced an

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<v Speaker 2>academic journal that studied the condition of Muslims who lived

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<v Speaker 2>as minorities around the world. And my dad's expertise was

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<v Speaker 2>actually in Russia. Well, back then it was the USSR,

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<v Speaker 2>the Soviet Union, and it was his You know, I

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<v Speaker 2>often say this, You know, my father was really prescient

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<v Speaker 2>about a lot of these issues. He basically said, look,

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<v Speaker 2>if we don't figure out as Muslims how to live

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<v Speaker 2>in the world with the rise of the West, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to have problems. And sure enough he predicted Bosni

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<v Speaker 2>I predicted so much of what we're now, this these

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<v Speaker 2>convulsions that we have. And in part his theory was, look,

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<v Speaker 2>if you are practicing Muslim wherever you come from in

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<v Speaker 2>the Arab world or you know, through the Muslim world,

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<v Speaker 2>and you choose to live in the West, you cannot

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<v Speaker 2>go there and live in your own little bubble. That's

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<v Speaker 2>just not You're not. You have to You're going to

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<v Speaker 2>go and live in France. You need to become French.

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<v Speaker 2>And also you.

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<v Speaker 1>Can do as the Romans do exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And then and that was the way he thought that

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<v Speaker 2>we could succeed in this world. And I think he

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<v Speaker 2>was right, seeing certainly what's happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was working specifically in what during those ten

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<v Speaker 1>years when he was over there, just a multitude of.

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<v Speaker 2>Things, a multitude of things. A lot of his conversations

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<v Speaker 2>were about interfaith dialogue. So we would like we spend

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<v Speaker 2>one summer in Greece, living in a monastery, at a

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<v Speaker 2>conference about you know, Islamic, Christian, Jewish, you know dialogue,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'd sit at the table and people, a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of Muslims and certainly Arabs and people who lived in

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<v Speaker 2>our world said why why do you do this? Why

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<v Speaker 2>do you go and you know? And they say, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they would tease him and say, why do you go

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<v Speaker 2>have conversations these provocative conversations where even the angels fear

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<v Speaker 2>to tread. Why do you go have these? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>very contentious? And he says, because I want to understand

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to know more about these other faiths

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<v Speaker 2>and beliefs and you know kind of cis political systems.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't have any doubt in my own butlo,

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<v Speaker 2>but I want to learn more. And I think we

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<v Speaker 2>probably have more in common than we realized now.

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<v Speaker 1>For you, other than when you were maybe moving about

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<v Speaker 1>and you mentioned Greece, for one, did you go to

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<v Speaker 1>one school or did you concentrate on just a handful

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<v Speaker 1>of schools when you were there? Where'd you go to school?

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<v Speaker 1>Of high school?

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<v Speaker 2>I went to an international school based on a British

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<v Speaker 2>curriculum that my father and a few of the other

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<v Speaker 2>professors of the university. Because this was all brand new

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<v Speaker 2>back in nineteen seventy seven when we moved there. And

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned the oil money. Sure there was all of

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<v Speaker 2>this new wealth, all these amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Just figuring out how much wealth.

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<v Speaker 2>They were just figuring out how much wealth. And they

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<v Speaker 2>were building universities and building hospitals. But they didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>the talent. That's why so much of this talent was

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<v Speaker 2>imported at the time. And my parents came in as

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<v Speaker 2>part of that imported talent exactly right, And so they

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<v Speaker 2>helped start the school. And so I was a British

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<v Speaker 2>school and it was international. It was actually one of

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<v Speaker 2>the best things ALEC that I think, to be exposed

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<v Speaker 2>to so many different cultures and languages and people from

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<v Speaker 2>all over the world. It made me comfortable everywhere, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that was a big part of it, was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, being surrounded by people who weren't like me.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you I mean for Americans today, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Saudi Arabia is now a concentration of pilots who flew

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<v Speaker 1>for nine to eleven. It's opek and a manipulation of

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<v Speaker 1>oil prices. It's koshoji. I'm talking about the contemporary American

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<v Speaker 1>view of that country. I mean, the United States certainly

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<v Speaker 1>has a lot of blood on its hands for things

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<v Speaker 1>that it's done. I'm not mentioning that to condemn the Saudis.

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<v Speaker 1>The United States is guilty of the exact same things

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<v Speaker 1>during its history as well. But set aside that. Back

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<v Speaker 1>when you were there, what was your Saudi Arabia? What

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<v Speaker 1>was your experience of the culture and the people. How

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<v Speaker 1>do they strike you?

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<v Speaker 2>You know? One of the very first things that really

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<v Speaker 2>hit home when I moved to the United States in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety three, so I didn't come back. So I

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<v Speaker 2>grew up in Saudi Arabia and I didn't live in

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<v Speaker 2>the United States until I came to university in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety three. One of the things I missed immediately is

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<v Speaker 2>this sense of community. And we call it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in the Muslim world, we call it the oma, and

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<v Speaker 2>the omah is the ever present community, which is you're

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<v Speaker 2>never alone. So I tell stories in the book about

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<v Speaker 2>how you know, you go to a party and you say,

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<v Speaker 2>I like your shirt, and you know, the next thing

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<v Speaker 2>you know, that shirt is sent to your house the

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<v Speaker 2>next day. This notion of there's always, you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>seat at the table for more people, there's always food

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<v Speaker 2>to share. You're always in a very kind of secure environment,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is something I kind of took for granted

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<v Speaker 2>when I was growing up there. In fact, I tell

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<v Speaker 2>the story about when my father finally got his transplant

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety six and he had to leave immediately

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<v Speaker 2>to go to the United States, to New York for

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<v Speaker 2>his transplant operation, and one of our very very close

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<v Speaker 2>Saudi friends called my mother and said, should we take

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<v Speaker 2>the girls and me and my siblings? You know, I was,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, nine, My sister was eleven, My younger sister

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<v Speaker 2>was four. For three of you, I'm my brother, so

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<v Speaker 2>four of us total and I and my mother, and

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<v Speaker 2>we were all already scared of all this change. So

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<v Speaker 2>that our friends call and said, why don't the girls

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<v Speaker 2>move in with us, you know, while you guys are

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<v Speaker 2>in the midst of this transplant operation. And I remember

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<v Speaker 2>we were also scared. We said to my mom, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we I want to go. So on the phone, she

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<v Speaker 2>makes up this excuse and she says, oh, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the kids have their exams, and their desks and their

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<v Speaker 2>bookcases are here, so we're okay. The next morning there's

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<v Speaker 2>a knock on our door and it's a moving company

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<v Speaker 2>and my mother's like, what are you doing here? And

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<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, we're here to something about books and

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<v Speaker 2>bookshelves and desks. We're moving, And sure enough they moved

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<v Speaker 2>the furniture into this family friend's home. We lived with

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<v Speaker 2>them while my parents were in the United States. How

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<v Speaker 2>long it was probably about six weeks if I remember correctly,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe two months. But this idea again of feeling

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<v Speaker 2>ohm the omah.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you leave and you come to the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you had a British centric or British fabric

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<v Speaker 1>in the educational thing over there, but why did you

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<v Speaker 1>come back to the US? Could you say, I'm an

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<v Speaker 1>American and I want to be educated, why don't you

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<v Speaker 1>go to England to go to school?

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<v Speaker 2>Well I had that choice. Actually, my older brother and

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<v Speaker 2>sister chose England, and I always wanted to come to

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<v Speaker 2>the United States. You know, back when I was growing

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<v Speaker 2>up in Saudi, everything that was sort of aspiration, everything

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<v Speaker 2>that was considered the best was American. You know, that

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<v Speaker 2>is you know, back then, America did seem like it

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<v Speaker 2>and it was the sole super power in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely felt like it was a paradise. And so we'd

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<v Speaker 2>come here for the summers. We would stock up on

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<v Speaker 2>all the latest magazines. We would have these bootleg movies

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<v Speaker 2>that we would take back, all the Tom Cruise movies

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, like Beverly Hill's Night on number one everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>He was certainly number one, you know back then, and

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<v Speaker 2>Ralph Macchio and the Karate Kid. I'm thinking of like

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<v Speaker 2>all of these, you know, and everything and I and

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<v Speaker 2>I write about this. You know, my parents always raised

0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.240
<v Speaker 2>and said, look, you're an American and you're Muslim, and in

0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.320
<v Speaker 2>part because they came from two countries that were at war,

0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:45.720
<v Speaker 2>so they didn't try to put the burden of that

0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.120
<v Speaker 2>identity that you have to choose whether you're Indian or

0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Pakistani or even Saudi. You know, given the fact that

0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.400
<v Speaker 2>we lived there and you know, felt a deep connection

0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.680
<v Speaker 2>to it. You're an American and you're in a Muslim

0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.920
<v Speaker 2>And so I remember we would go all over the world,

0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:00.920
<v Speaker 2>and that was one of the great beauties of having

0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.480
<v Speaker 2>parents who were academics. They had summers off was one

0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:07.600
<v Speaker 2>of also the great advantages of being a university professor there.

0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.319
<v Speaker 2>Because my parents, in the early years, in fact, I

0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.520
<v Speaker 2>don't think I've ever shared this, they would get four

0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.040
<v Speaker 2>first class tickets every summer to go wherever, and so

0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.640
<v Speaker 2>we would, you know, take these tickets and we would

0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:19.680
<v Speaker 2>go to Europe and Asia, and in part because my

0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.680
<v Speaker 2>father was sick and he wanted to explore the world.

0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.480
<v Speaker 2>He and he didn't know how much time had there's

0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.319
<v Speaker 2>benefits to have been. So, I mean, these were secrets

0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.360
<v Speaker 2>from us. We did not know how ill he was.

0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.200
<v Speaker 2>And I tell this story about you know, my father

0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.040
<v Speaker 2>was barely one hundred pounds, and to me, he was

0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.719
<v Speaker 2>a superhero. You know, he was the greatest, strongest man

0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.199
<v Speaker 2>on the planet. But he would every spring, you would say, okay,

0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:41.760
<v Speaker 2>where do you want to go this year? And we'd say, okay,

0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.520
<v Speaker 2>let's do Asia, and he said, okay. We'd pull out

0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.960
<v Speaker 2>a map and we'd have to call the airlines back

0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.400
<v Speaker 2>then well wherever, wherever, you know, wherever, and we would

0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:52.800
<v Speaker 2>have you voted on whoever we voted on, and then

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.760
<v Speaker 2>we'd have to help plan it. And my mom did

0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:56.520
<v Speaker 2>all the schlepping and all the lifting, and you know,

0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.720
<v Speaker 2>my father would be wheeled around in a wheelchair. But

0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.480
<v Speaker 2>it was having Number one, it was a way for

0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.640
<v Speaker 2>us to spend time together, and number two, it was

0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.280
<v Speaker 2>a way to explore the world. And I remember my

0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.400
<v Speaker 2>mother tells the story of how we would land in

0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:10.760
<v Speaker 2>the middle of nowhere sometimes in Shannon, Ireland, you know,

0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.120
<v Speaker 2>on our way to you know, refeel somewhere. And I

0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:14.960
<v Speaker 2>would get up and turn to my mother and say,

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:16.800
<v Speaker 2>is it America yet? And I have a whole chapter

0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:18.720
<v Speaker 2>in my book. I mean that is what, you know,

0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.199
<v Speaker 2>the excitement, the feeling that you know, ice cream running

0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.400
<v Speaker 2>down my hands. You know, when we visited our family

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.640
<v Speaker 2>in Elmhurst, Queens, it was paradise. It was heaven. You

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.400
<v Speaker 2>could go anywhere in the world and landing in JFK

0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:31.520
<v Speaker 2>was the highlight.

0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.040
<v Speaker 1>So when you came to the US to when you

0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.200
<v Speaker 1>return to the US to go to college, you go

0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.120
<v Speaker 1>and you go into politics, but you study journalism as

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.720
<v Speaker 1>a major and poly size is the minor? Did you

0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 1>most people? I know? My point is that they go

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:46.440
<v Speaker 1>to GW for one thing.

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:46.880
<v Speaker 3>Only.

0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.320
<v Speaker 1>They don't go there to play the violin. They don't

0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.720
<v Speaker 1>go there to get a scholarship. For some sports they play.

0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.120
<v Speaker 1>They go there because they got politics in their blood.

0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Was that you No, I was I want to gw

0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:58.240
<v Speaker 2>to become Christian.

0:12:58.280 --> 0:12:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm on poor.

0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Journalism was the goal. It was. And you know, I

0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.480
<v Speaker 2>say this all the time now when I especially when

0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.360
<v Speaker 2>I meet younger women. I was sitting on the floor

0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.040
<v Speaker 2>of our house and watch this brand new thing in

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.199
<v Speaker 2>Saudi Arabia and then this is the you know, Operation

0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Desert Storm, Persian Gulf War, and turn on this brand

0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 2>new thing called CNN International, and I see this woman

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 2>and she was brilliant and she was fearless. I mean

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.520
<v Speaker 2>it was I looked at her and she looked like me.

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 2>She looked like she came from my part of the world,

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.880
<v Speaker 2>and she gave this morphous you know, I went from

0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 2>everything I think when I was younger. You know, my dad,

0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I think always thought I was going to be a writer.

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.480
<v Speaker 2>He would we you know, say that to me, right

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.240
<v Speaker 2>right right. I was a voracious reader. I went through

0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:43.840
<v Speaker 2>a period where I thought I wanted to be a lawyer.

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I was really very dramatic. People would come to our

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 2>house and I would say, do you want to listen

0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 2>to my new poem? And my siblings would roll their eyes.

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Like I was a performer growing up. I had a

0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 2>lot of sort of confidence. I loved to perform. So

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:56.440
<v Speaker 2>I think I went through the period of like, I

0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:57.920
<v Speaker 2>want to be an actor, I want to be a singer,

0:13:57.920 --> 0:13:59.240
<v Speaker 2>I want to be out there. I wanted to be a.

0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Balleries how you ended up, but we're going to get that.

0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:03.680
<v Speaker 2>I went through all these different phases. But then, and

0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.040
<v Speaker 2>I must have been no. I was fifteen. I saw

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.000
<v Speaker 2>her and I said, that's it. That is who I

0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.079
<v Speaker 2>want to be. And I was singularly focused on being her.

0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.840
<v Speaker 2>And that is why I applied to g W and

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.680
<v Speaker 2>I went to journalism and I got my degree in journalism,

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.960
<v Speaker 2>so graduate degree. I did not get a graduates of

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:20.880
<v Speaker 2>one of my regrets, but I did not get a graduate.

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.960
<v Speaker 1>When you end, when you do the four years at

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 1>GW and you get a degree in journalism, is journalism

0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 1>still the goal is.

0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 2>Because my junior year, my friend Ronnie Hibbert came to

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 2>me and said, listen, I've got this great internship at

0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.200
<v Speaker 2>the White House. I'm interning for Mike McCurry, who was

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 2>then the White House Press secretary. And she actually said

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.960
<v Speaker 2>to me, she says, you know, when you watch anybody

0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.800
<v Speaker 2>giving a you know, a statement from that podium in

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 2>the in the press room, our office is right behind.

0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.400
<v Speaker 2>And I thought, oh my god, how better to become

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 2>press than being behind that wall. But you know, chance,

0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, fate, luck, whatever it was, I got accepted.

0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 2>So my friend Ronnie picks up the internship application for me.

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I think basically filled it out for me. I gave

0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 2>them my you know, the essays that I used to

0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 2>apply to GW sent it in. Was accepted, but I

0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.080
<v Speaker 2>wasn't put in the press office. I was put in

0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.040
<v Speaker 2>the first Lady's policy office.

0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Where did you first lay eyes on Hillarby Clinton? And

0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.640
<v Speaker 1>you actually talked to her and shook her hand?

0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.760
<v Speaker 2>So she doesn't remember this, there's no reason she'd remember this.

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 2>But the first time I laid eyes on her and

0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 2>shook her hand was the night of Bill Clinton's re

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 2>election nineteen ninety six. So I was a White House

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.400
<v Speaker 2>intern and they, you know, the DNC had made accommodations

0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.520
<v Speaker 2>that if interns wanted to go on this charter plane

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 2>at the last minute too Little Rock, Arkansas for election

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.160
<v Speaker 2>night talk about politics on steroids. I had now alec

0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.920
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't registered to vote. I had never I mean,

0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:49.520
<v Speaker 2>I grew up in a country that was a monarchy.

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Obviously there was no so you know, I went from

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>zero to a thousand, and so I get on this

0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>plane with a bunch of interns. We had to pay,

0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, write a check for I think two hundred

0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 2>and fifty dollars for our ticket. Land and Little Rock

0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 2>were wandering around outside, and I'm just kind of just

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 2>in awe. I look up and there's Wolf Blitzer.

0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I look up.

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 2>There's intoxicating me. So I, you know, played a little Rock.

0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 2>The elections called for Bill Clinton and the Energy and

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 2>the Electricity, and they come out on stage and then

0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 2>they come down to work a rope line, and I

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.120
<v Speaker 2>was four or five people deep in and I remember

0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 2>leaning forward through the crowd and shaking her hand, and

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 2>she looked right at me and she said thank you.

0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 2>And I and I have to tell you, I can't

0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.400
<v Speaker 2>even count the number of ropelines I had walked with

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Hillary Clinton since then, But I remember that moment. I

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 2>remember how it felt, I remember how important it felt.

0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 2>I remember that I felt like I made this connection.

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 2>And so every time somebody would say to me, I

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 2>just want to say a lord, I want to shake

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>her hand. I got it because I remember that first

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 2>moment and for some people it's it really is a

0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.080
<v Speaker 2>once in a lifetime to meet a president or a

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 2>first lady. It was really exciting.

0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Huma Aberdeen. If you enjoy conversations with accomplished women in politics,

0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 1>check out my episode with United States Congresswoman Katie Porter.

0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.919
<v Speaker 3>You know, I think there is an attitude that you know,

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.480
<v Speaker 3>sort of people are entitled to have Republican representation. Here.

0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.920
<v Speaker 3>What they're entitled to is good representation, right, people who

0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 3>listen to them, people who fight for them, people who

0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 3>are not corrupt, and that can come in your Democratic

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:25.560
<v Speaker 3>or Republican forms.

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.240
<v Speaker 1>To hear more of my conversation with Katie Porter, go

0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 1>to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Huma

0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Abdeen shares the tremendous impact of Hillary Clinton's twenty sixteen

0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:56.719
<v Speaker 1>election loss. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's

0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 1>the Thing. Huma Abodeen is fiercely in intelligent, warm and

0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:07.080
<v Speaker 1>impeccably credentialed. Will Surely anyone would be lucky to employ her.

0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 1>I was curious why she stayed in the Clinton camp

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:12.440
<v Speaker 1>for twenty six years.

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm getting emotional because I'm sitting at this table.

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 2>She sat where you're sitting right now to do my

0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.400
<v Speaker 2>first podcast interview after the book came out, and she's

0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.880
<v Speaker 2>one of the people who really encouraged me to write

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:26.040
<v Speaker 2>my story. That wound, to some degree does not go away.

0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:28.560
<v Speaker 2>I think it is such a travesty and a loss

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 2>for this country tragedy. I agree with you that she

0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.160
<v Speaker 2>was not president in twenty sixteen and how different our

0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.679
<v Speaker 2>country and the world would have been, and it is

0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.200
<v Speaker 2>their loss. And to see how politics has descended into

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 2>this sort of really a cult of personality. I was

0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.679
<v Speaker 2>having this conversation with a friend the other day and

0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:48.520
<v Speaker 2>he was like, it's almost like you need to be

0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.200
<v Speaker 2>a celebrity, to even a rich celebrity, to even you know,

0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>run for office and take all that apart. You know,

0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>you actually have asked me something no one's ever asked me.

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:01.439
<v Speaker 2>I kind of fell into politics, You're right, I mean

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.200
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to oviginalist fell into politics. But why. It's

0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.360
<v Speaker 2>because when I started being in the orbit of Bill

0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and Hillary Clinton, forget who they were, that he was

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:11.639
<v Speaker 2>the most you know, the leader of the free world.

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.360
<v Speaker 2>She was the most powerful woman in the world. For them,

0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 2>it was all about the mission and the service and

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.240
<v Speaker 2>how do I make I know it sounds cliche and

0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.159
<v Speaker 2>it sounds cheesy, but there are people who get up

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:22.480
<v Speaker 2>every single day and say, how do I make other

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.360
<v Speaker 2>people's lives better? And I think of all the things

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.360
<v Speaker 2>that I have done. There's not a space I have been,

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 2>a place I have been. There isn't a person I

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 2>haven't met that I want to meet. And it still

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.720
<v Speaker 2>does not feel the way it feels when you're out

0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.439
<v Speaker 2>on a campaign, when you're in government and feel and

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.639
<v Speaker 2>know that you can make somebody's life better than you

0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.199
<v Speaker 2>can do something doing the right thing. And that is

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.000
<v Speaker 2>something I learned from her, and to see her do

0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.080
<v Speaker 2>it part of her thing. As you well know, She's

0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:50.920
<v Speaker 2>never really thought it was about her. And I think

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of politicians and maybe even people in your

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.640
<v Speaker 2>line of work, they get into it. There's some degree

0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.160
<v Speaker 2>of whether it's narcissism or some degree of you know,

0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:01.159
<v Speaker 2>trying to prove one his own value. But she just

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.800
<v Speaker 2>she just wants to do the work. And I always said,

0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:06.560
<v Speaker 2>the day I got up and she wasn't doing something

0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 2>interesting or I didn't want to go to work, or

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to talk to her, I would quit.

0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.760
<v Speaker 2>And the thing that is so insane to me is

0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.040
<v Speaker 2>that after that election which broke us. I mean, I

0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 2>write about it in twenty sixty and there are days

0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:19.919
<v Speaker 2>that it comes back, and you know, it haunts me.

0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.760
<v Speaker 2>It hurts like it hurts like physically.

0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.399
<v Speaker 1>I was around her this summer, Liz Robbins, we went

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 1>to that dinner. This is my friend for our listeners

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 1>who she has at dinner and Bill is there a

0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 1>couple summers ago. Bill is lecturing us on North Korea,

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.879
<v Speaker 1>and he's talking about now now when the president of

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.560
<v Speaker 1>the United States is telling you what he wants you

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 1>to know, a little digest, a little synopsis about North

0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Korean policy, you are well, I don't need to eat,

0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.720
<v Speaker 1>forget about dinner, and Liz Robbins is behind his back.

0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 1>She's behind Bill's back going like this and cutting her

0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.639
<v Speaker 1>throat like this, going you got it, dumb to stop.

0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Dinner is ready, and I'm looking at her like, h yeah,

0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna tell Bill to stop talking about North Korea.

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.080
<v Speaker 1>And when you're with him, you get a civics lesson.

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.760
<v Speaker 1>He had a political history lesson, and we did with

0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.200
<v Speaker 1>her the same thing. But she's just I don't know

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.680
<v Speaker 1>what this inefvitable thing in my business where she just

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.720
<v Speaker 1>she's like Spencer Tracy. Yes, she's just so decent.

0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.160
<v Speaker 2>She has a few radical empathy number one, number two,

0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.920
<v Speaker 2>she has this she has like she says, this problem

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 2>solving gene. You know, I think so much of it,

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:26.199
<v Speaker 2>and you know, people, and she's motivated really by not

0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 2>anything else. I don't think she cares about being rich

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:30.159
<v Speaker 2>and famous. I don't think she's ever cared about that.

0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.360
<v Speaker 2>But I think knowing about her own mother, her own

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.000
<v Speaker 2>mother had a very very difficult childhood, was basically abandoned

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 2>by her parents. And you know, her victory speech in

0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.399
<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen, she was going to end with this story

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.280
<v Speaker 2>about she tells a story about her mother who is

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.560
<v Speaker 2>put on a train cross country. Her parents didn't want

0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:50.920
<v Speaker 2>her and her little sister. So these two little girls

0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.440
<v Speaker 2>under ten put on a train to go cross country

0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.920
<v Speaker 2>to move in with her their grandparents, who also didn't

0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:59.760
<v Speaker 2>really want them. And she said, you know, she imagined

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 2>being on that train, sitting next to her mother and

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 2>saying it's going to be okay, you're going to be okay,

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 2>and you're going to grow up and you're going to

0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.639
<v Speaker 2>have a daughter, and she will be the first woman

0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:20.160
<v Speaker 2>president of the United States. And in the end, she was,

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:22.679
<v Speaker 2>and she was, and I know that she waits to

0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.480
<v Speaker 2>remind people. I also like to remind people when people say, well,

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:27.199
<v Speaker 2>why couldn't you guys, Why didn't you guys have the

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:29.520
<v Speaker 2>energy and sort of why didn't you have all this

0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:31.280
<v Speaker 2>energy behind you? And he said, I'd like to remind

0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.399
<v Speaker 2>people that three million people more than her opponent voted

0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.080
<v Speaker 2>for her, that she did have the energy and enthusiasm

0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.679
<v Speaker 2>and you know the forces. I do believe she ran

0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:41.600
<v Speaker 2>won in twenty sixteen.

0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 1>And she did win in twenty sixteen. You know one

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:45.679
<v Speaker 1>other things that you and she have in common. You

0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:49.160
<v Speaker 1>were both people who your husbands let you down. That's

0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:51.399
<v Speaker 1>my way of putting it. Your husband's let you down.

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 1>And in your case, you will overcome that. You deal

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:59.280
<v Speaker 1>with that in your way, and you're very honest about

0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:04.600
<v Speaker 1>it in the book, and you keep going. Crisis management

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:09.520
<v Speaker 1>has been a fundamental pillar of your career. You've worked

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 1>with people who've been in crisis, and Hilary Clinton is

0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.000
<v Speaker 1>someone who's been attacked in a way that is as

0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:19.399
<v Speaker 1>ugly and so with you professionally, with the Clintons for

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:21.920
<v Speaker 1>many years in your personal life, a lot of crisis

0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.199
<v Speaker 1>management for you. What prepared you for that?

0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.280
<v Speaker 2>I think my childhood. I think the way I was raised,

0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:30.600
<v Speaker 2>the people who raised me, the you know, whether it

0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.399
<v Speaker 2>was conscious or subconscious. I mean this idea that I

0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:36.360
<v Speaker 2>had a mother who is a superhero, you know who

0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:39.359
<v Speaker 2>My father was throwing up after his dialysis sessions and

0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:41.359
<v Speaker 2>she was in the bathroom cleaning him up, and you know,

0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:42.720
<v Speaker 2>propping him up and putting him at them.

0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Very very real.

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:46.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean these were very and you know, living in

0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Saudi Arabia, living in a different cultures, living you know,

0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:53.439
<v Speaker 2>sometimes in very frustrating moments, and always thinking all right,

0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:55.280
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow is going to better, Tomorrow is going to be better.

0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.480
<v Speaker 2>And then obviously dealing with my father's death I was hard.

0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 2>You know, I was in denial for a while. It

0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:02.440
<v Speaker 2>took two years for me to actually say out loud

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 2>to people my father's dead. I was basically just you know,

0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:08.600
<v Speaker 2>So I think that to some extent there was crisis

0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:10.480
<v Speaker 2>all around me kind of growing up, and I figured

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:12.520
<v Speaker 2>out how to live and dance and not only live

0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:14.879
<v Speaker 2>through it. My mother tells, move on. I mean, my

0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.520
<v Speaker 2>mother says, my father's favorite memory from my childhood is

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:20.399
<v Speaker 2>when I would come out of school. I would skip

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 2>out of school and he would call me his gazelle.

0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:24.280
<v Speaker 2>It's one of the reasons I share in the book,

0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.000
<v Speaker 2>this story about the first time I staff Hillary and

0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:29.879
<v Speaker 2>her speech is forgotten in the car and she calls

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:32.320
<v Speaker 2>me on to stage and I'm this kid, I'm barely

0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.399
<v Speaker 2>twenty one, don't have the speech. And that was the moment,

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.439
<v Speaker 2>the moment where you basically either fall apart or say

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:41.320
<v Speaker 2>I got it. I can fix this. And I fixed

0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:43.280
<v Speaker 2>it in that moment. That was twenty six years ago,

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:45.560
<v Speaker 2>and I have always figured it out, and I actually

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:47.800
<v Speaker 2>think I have figured out that I'm pretty good at it.

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if that's like a marketable skill

0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:52.040
<v Speaker 2>and he were outside of politics. I'm working on that

0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:54.560
<v Speaker 2>right now. But it's experience.

0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Which idea was the book?

0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:01.560
<v Speaker 2>The book was Anna Winter's idea. No, yes, yes. It

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 2>was ten days after the election. I didn't want to

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 2>get out of bed, and she says, let's go to dinner,

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:07.679
<v Speaker 2>and we go to the theater and then go to

0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:10.679
<v Speaker 2>dinner and I was it was at the public and

0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:15.199
<v Speaker 2>it was Cheryl Strad's Tiny Beautiful Things, and cried and

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:17.040
<v Speaker 2>cried and cried. And then we go to dinner and

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:18.680
<v Speaker 2>she says, I know what you should do. You should

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:20.320
<v Speaker 2>write your story. It's a great story. And I said, no,

0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:22.240
<v Speaker 2>it's not I'm not going to do it. And the

0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:24.320
<v Speaker 2>next day I go to Hillary and tell Hillary and

0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:26.040
<v Speaker 2>I said, She's like, brilliant idea. You should do. It's

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 2>a good story. I was really in denial. It was

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:30.600
<v Speaker 2>only when I went to lunch with a man getting

0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:32.560
<v Speaker 2>advice on what to do next in my life and

0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:34.359
<v Speaker 2>told them most and people think I should write my book.

0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:36.679
<v Speaker 2>And he was like, why would you do that? And

0:25:36.720 --> 0:25:39.400
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, people have suggested the.

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Man robis here shielding what does he do for a

0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:43.160
<v Speaker 1>living career to say?

0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:46.680
<v Speaker 2>He's also a crisis management consultant to an extent. I mean,

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:48.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's in sort of the business of, you know,

0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:52.520
<v Speaker 2>politics and communications. And he says, listen, I just don't

0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.400
<v Speaker 2>think you could ever fully explain why Hillary lost. And

0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anyone wants to read any more about

0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.719
<v Speaker 2>all that scandal. And it was when you use that

0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:03.760
<v Speaker 2>word scandal. I walked out of that restaurant and I

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:05.520
<v Speaker 2>was writing the book. It was somebody telling me the

0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:07.800
<v Speaker 2>story was unworthy. That made me write. And when I

0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:11.280
<v Speaker 2>when I started writing, it just poured, it poured out

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:14.199
<v Speaker 2>of me. I loved, loved, loved the writing process. And

0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:16.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, and look, because you asked about Anthony and

0:26:16.840 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 2>my ex husband letting me down, which he did.

0:26:19.680 --> 0:26:20.760
<v Speaker 1>He was on this podcast.

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.679
<v Speaker 2>He was on this podcast. Yeah, that's right, he was.

0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I my first usband and wife a

0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:26.159
<v Speaker 1>couple of.

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.200
<v Speaker 2>I should have brought him along. We're we're not talking

0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:32.160
<v Speaker 2>about doing some interviews together because people cannot. Are still

0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:33.879
<v Speaker 2>in shock. And I get stopped on the street all

0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:36.360
<v Speaker 2>the time saying, oh, I'm sure you threw the day

0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:38.199
<v Speaker 2>that you met that man. In fact, somebody said that

0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:40.879
<v Speaker 2>to me. You know, when I launched the paperback to

0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:42.280
<v Speaker 2>a couple of weeks, I was like, I'm sure you

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:44.840
<v Speaker 2>rew the day you met that man. And I stopped

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.400
<v Speaker 2>this person and I said, you know, actually, this man

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:51.280
<v Speaker 2>gave me the greatest gift in my life. And that

0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:54.560
<v Speaker 2>is my son. My opinion, and so no, and I

0:26:54.760 --> 0:26:57.439
<v Speaker 2>and I think part of it is people didn't understand

0:26:57.480 --> 0:26:59.960
<v Speaker 2>what was happening. And you know, I only now, you're

0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:03.359
<v Speaker 2>years later, we have a much greater appreciation for mental

0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.120
<v Speaker 2>health and addiction and and I you know, back then,

0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.560
<v Speaker 2>only certain like I felt like our friends kind of

0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:11.640
<v Speaker 2>in the creative world and Hollywood really understood what was happening.

0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:14.600
<v Speaker 2>And you know, but in politics, I mean, to have

0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:18.040
<v Speaker 2>the first what I argue was sort of Twitter sex scandal.

0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:19.960
<v Speaker 2>It was unheard of back then. People don't know what

0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:21.080
<v Speaker 2>to do, and so we would.

0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Sacho also with him, if I may just interject you

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:25.320
<v Speaker 1>with it with him, that the thing is that we

0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:28.280
<v Speaker 1>have so few people now in my estimation, who are

0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:32.240
<v Speaker 1>really really special in politics, and your former husband was

0:27:32.240 --> 0:27:34.360
<v Speaker 1>somebody who people had a lot of belief in him.

0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:37.280
<v Speaker 2>He was you know, at one point, the chapter about

0:27:37.320 --> 0:27:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Anthony was called Icarus because he was I mean, he

0:27:40.400 --> 0:27:44.400
<v Speaker 2>really was Markt really smart, really and as you said,

0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:46.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, he was unique. He was a unicorn in

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:49.520
<v Speaker 2>a way that he was progressive, he was feisty, he

0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 2>was smart, he understood the policy. But more than that,

0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:54.639
<v Speaker 2>he had solutions. And you know, until he ran for

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.880
<v Speaker 2>mayor in twenty thirteen and obviously lost, he'd never lost

0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:00.080
<v Speaker 2>an election before too to that point, and so so

0:28:00.200 --> 0:28:03.320
<v Speaker 2>to not then understand the behavior, which I did not,

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Alec I'm being very on. I did not as somebody

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:09.879
<v Speaker 2>who grew up so disciplined and with such moderation, you know,

0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:12.600
<v Speaker 2>so you know, I'd just knock off this behavior and

0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:15.679
<v Speaker 2>not understanding that he'd really fallen into and you know,

0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 2>his all of this compulsiveness was really kind of triggered

0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:22.080
<v Speaker 2>by Facebook and Twitter, that all had just started in

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:25.520
<v Speaker 2>the last couple of years and then just just fall it. Really, it's,

0:28:25.680 --> 0:28:27.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, talk about another tragic I think he.

0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Let down a lot of people, not just you. Yeah,

0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:31.680
<v Speaker 1>he had people who really believed in him because in

0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:34.880
<v Speaker 1>the Democratic Party we just sort of have enough tough people. Now,

0:28:35.000 --> 0:28:39.480
<v Speaker 1>you've been dealing with the political press your entire professional career,

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.280
<v Speaker 1>and some of them have been, you know, remarkably brutal

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.760
<v Speaker 1>and unfair. Who in your life from the conservative media

0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 1>when you dealt with them, did you respect and you

0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:53.400
<v Speaker 1>liking that they covered her fairly? Wow?

0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:57.320
<v Speaker 2>That is a question, is as sad, I will say

0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:00.240
<v Speaker 2>that I don't know the answer to. I'm not sure

0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:01.800
<v Speaker 2>I could give you a name off the top of

0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 2>my head.

0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that hard coming from you, That's pretty damn it.

0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:06.320
<v Speaker 2>But we lived, I mean when we lived in a

0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 2>different You know, you've stumped me. I mean, honestly, I can't.

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:12.840
<v Speaker 2>I think we were always on guard. And to the

0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 2>point that you just made about fake news versus you know,

0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:18.480
<v Speaker 2>this notion of you're entitled to your you know, your

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:21.080
<v Speaker 2>own opinion, but now your own facts. That's out the door. Now.

0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Now it's sort of you know, what is fact? What

0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 2>is fiction? And I struggle to come up with a

0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:31.240
<v Speaker 2>single name of somebody who I thought was Look, we

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.000
<v Speaker 2>had challenges with the New York Times, where there were

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 2>stories that were just filled with inaccuracies.

0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Huma Aberdeen, If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend

0:29:42.360 --> 0:29:44.920
<v Speaker 1>and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the

0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:50.200
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When

0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:54.480
<v Speaker 1>we come back, Huma Aberdeen ponders whether a political candidacy

0:29:54.560 --> 0:30:12.360
<v Speaker 1>is in her future. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening

0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:16.760
<v Speaker 1>to Here's the Thing. Whoma Abadeen was vice chair of

0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:21.600
<v Speaker 1>the Hillary Clinton's twenty sixteen presidential campaign. After such an

0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:25.840
<v Speaker 1>unexpected and painful loss, I was curious what she thought

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.920
<v Speaker 1>it would take for the United States to finally elect

0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:30.400
<v Speaker 1>a female president.

0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:33.560
<v Speaker 2>I think this is a generational thing. I mean, I'm

0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:35.760
<v Speaker 2>raising a son, and I am raising my son not

0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:40.920
<v Speaker 2>just to respect women, but not fear their power. And

0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:43.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it's conscious and subconscious, this notion of when

0:30:43.760 --> 0:30:46.200
<v Speaker 2>you close your eyes and you see somebody who's in charge,

0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:48.160
<v Speaker 2>do you ever see it as a woman, know, you

0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:49.880
<v Speaker 2>see it as a man. And how do we change that?

0:30:49.960 --> 0:30:52.480
<v Speaker 2>And I think you and I are of a generation

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:55.320
<v Speaker 2>that that's it's going to be very hard to change.

0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 2>And it's proven an election over and over again. I mean,

0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 2>look at this battle of Kathy Hochles going through right

0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:02.800
<v Speaker 2>now in New York. I mean it is I guarantee

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:05.960
<v Speaker 2>you if she was not a woman, I'm not sure

0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:08.360
<v Speaker 2>she would it would be as back and neck. But

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.280
<v Speaker 2>it's women, and it's and this notion of ambition, you know,

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:13.400
<v Speaker 2>the idea that people always look at us whenever we

0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:15.480
<v Speaker 2>are the victim, when we were in service of I

0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:18.160
<v Speaker 2>mean Hillary was always most popular when you know, during

0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 2>impeachment in her husband's administration, and then when she served

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Obama and the minute she says I'm in her approval

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:29.120
<v Speaker 2>numbers just go down significantly. And that why why it

0:31:29.240 --> 0:31:33.000
<v Speaker 2>is the minute a woman as seen as being ambitious

0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 2>for power or being in charge, that all of a

0:31:36.560 --> 0:31:39.560
<v Speaker 2>sudden something subconsciously and this is not just men, this

0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:41.760
<v Speaker 2>is men and women subconsciously. It's like off in our

0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:43.640
<v Speaker 2>head saying no, no, no, no, that can't happen.

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Women who still support the patriarchy. I find that mesmerizing.

0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:50.360
<v Speaker 1>Women who are enemies of candidacies like hell.

0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.680
<v Speaker 2>And we would knock on doors early on the primary

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:55.920
<v Speaker 2>and women you know in Iowa would say, I'm gonna

0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 2>caucus for Hillary. I'm gonna caucus for Hillary. Wink wink,

0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:01.360
<v Speaker 2>but you know, make sure their husband's in here. And

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:04.120
<v Speaker 2>then sure enough, on caucus day they just said what

0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:06.760
<v Speaker 2>their husbands were doing or told them to do. Whatever

0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:09.520
<v Speaker 2>it is. It's just it is. It is a generational

0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:10.800
<v Speaker 2>thing that we have to change.

0:32:10.960 --> 0:32:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Are you going to run?

0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:13.720
<v Speaker 2>You know?

0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Part of.

0:32:16.040 --> 0:32:22.760
<v Speaker 2>About it, well, I haven't really what I that's your demographic?

0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I well, I so this is my year of saying yes,

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing all kinds of crazy things this year that

0:32:28.160 --> 0:32:30.160
<v Speaker 2>I would have never said yes to two years ago.

0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:35.280
<v Speaker 2>For example, I mean this I'm doing interviews, I'm giving speeches,

0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:39.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm you know, I'm just exploring the world. I'm seeing

0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:42.320
<v Speaker 2>things and meeting people. I'm just doing things I would

0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:44.200
<v Speaker 2>have in the olden days. I don't have time for this.

0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't have time for social life. I don't have time.

0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:48.040
<v Speaker 2>You know. It's always about work, and now I'm just

0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, finding more time to do all those things.

0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.240
<v Speaker 2>So I hate when I say, Okay, I'm definitely not

0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:56.600
<v Speaker 2>running for office. I don't see a path. I don't

0:32:56.760 --> 0:32:59.760
<v Speaker 2>see that I would. But I'm in this never say never,

0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:02.560
<v Speaker 2>but I don't. I don't see it. I'm also agnostic

0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 2>about it.

0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:06.280
<v Speaker 1>You've never seen the path? Have you? The woman that

0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 1>wanted to be Christian?

0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:09.880
<v Speaker 2>And I'm on poor one.

0:33:09.920 --> 0:33:14.880
<v Speaker 1>That's right in the Sliding Doors biography of hom you've

0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.040
<v Speaker 1>never seen the path. You're like me in the sense

0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:19.840
<v Speaker 1>of my whole life has been People would go A

0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:22.640
<v Speaker 1>B or C, and I go, which do I really

0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:24.840
<v Speaker 1>want A B or C? And the answer is D

0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:28.360
<v Speaker 1>something that wasn't even on the table eighteen months. If

0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:29.720
<v Speaker 1>that's the train I got.

0:33:29.480 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 2>On, well that's the cliff. You know. The book was

0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:34.040
<v Speaker 2>originally the prolog was originally called the cliff. I was

0:33:34.120 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of standing on the precipice of that cliff and

0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I chose to jump. And I always envisioned that it

0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:42.040
<v Speaker 2>was going to be really bad. Jumping just meant hitting

0:33:42.080 --> 0:33:44.360
<v Speaker 2>the ground, and how much pain was that going to be?

0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 1>And it's an opportunity as well. Yeah, and this is

0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:49.440
<v Speaker 1>just my opinion. I mean, I'm not trying to give

0:33:49.440 --> 0:33:51.280
<v Speaker 1>you advice here. I'm not trying to encourage you to

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 1>run for office. But the point is is that it's

0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:56.360
<v Speaker 1>an opportunity. Even if you lose, you don't go into

0:33:56.360 --> 0:33:58.200
<v Speaker 1>the thing. It's a chance for you to put on

0:33:58.240 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the record what you believe about this kind and this government.

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:04.360
<v Speaker 1>So two more quick things. One is you're developing a

0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:07.120
<v Speaker 1>television series based on your memoir and you went ahead,

0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:10.279
<v Speaker 1>And I can't believe you wouldn't cast the unspeakably unattractive

0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:12.840
<v Speaker 1>and untalented Freeda Pinto to play you. I mean, what

0:34:12.880 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 1>the hell are you thinking? Freeda Pinto is going to

0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:15.919
<v Speaker 1>play you in the TV show.

0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I was stunned that she wanted to do it. You know,

0:34:19.440 --> 0:34:21.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm a big admirer of hers, But more than that,

0:34:21.920 --> 0:34:23.879
<v Speaker 2>I was and I met I met with a lot

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:25.560
<v Speaker 2>of people, and I didn't know where. I'd never met

0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 2>her in all these years. But she got the book,

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.399
<v Speaker 2>she got the story, she got the character. And I think,

0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:33.640
<v Speaker 2>while I'm gratified a lot of people have read the book,

0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot more people will watch it on

0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:37.680
<v Speaker 2>screen and this if there is some sort of service

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:39.759
<v Speaker 2>or interest in the book. I mean, I I'm just

0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 2>beyond thrill that she's doing and I can't wait for

0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:46.080
<v Speaker 2>so lucky son act.

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Now, if we're going to end, I want you to

0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:51.040
<v Speaker 1>read that first. This is a letter. Tell us about

0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:51.839
<v Speaker 1>this letter? Where is this from?

0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:55.800
<v Speaker 2>This is a note I found just buried in my

0:34:55.880 --> 0:34:58.480
<v Speaker 2>dad's papers years after he died, and I thought it

0:34:58.520 --> 0:35:01.200
<v Speaker 2>was a message, you know, from being and I think

0:35:01.239 --> 0:35:03.799
<v Speaker 2>it was just something you know, you would scribble these

0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 2>notes down. And he had a folder called Random Reflections

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:09.399
<v Speaker 2>and this was from his random reflections folder and it's

0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:14.760
<v Speaker 2>titled thought for the Day. As an American, a Muslim,

0:35:15.440 --> 0:35:18.560
<v Speaker 2>and as a member of a fairly decent family, a

0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:23.000
<v Speaker 2>commitment should be a commitment. Whatever the provocation. It should

0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:26.719
<v Speaker 2>not influence you to act in an unbecoming manner. You

0:35:26.800 --> 0:35:30.680
<v Speaker 2>have to be fair, honest, and direct. If you can't

0:35:30.760 --> 0:35:33.759
<v Speaker 2>stand the heat, then, as Truman said, get out of

0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:38.520
<v Speaker 2>the kitchen. But your exit should be graceful, decent, and

0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:42.799
<v Speaker 2>above board. Let others do what they will. You are

0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:48.680
<v Speaker 2>responsible in the first instance, to yourself, your principles and values,

0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:55.399
<v Speaker 2>and ultimately to God yahweh Allah, your loving Father. And

0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:58.839
<v Speaker 2>I feel as though this was a note that he

0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:02.520
<v Speaker 2>left for a to remind us what's important about how

0:36:02.560 --> 0:36:03.680
<v Speaker 2>to walk through this earth.

0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 1>And you've lived that.

0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:07.359
<v Speaker 2>I've tried to You've lived that, and.

0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:08.960
<v Speaker 1>I want you to know. See, the thing about you

0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:10.920
<v Speaker 1>is I'm going to end with the blessing and the curse,

0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:13.480
<v Speaker 1>the sweet and the sour, and that is you are

0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:16.960
<v Speaker 1>a very special and gifted person. But of course with

0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:22.160
<v Speaker 1>that comes tremendous burdens as well, and tremendous demands. It's

0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:24.000
<v Speaker 1>a blessing and a curse. You have a lot of

0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:26.759
<v Speaker 1>burdens on you. This is choking me up here. It's

0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:30.080
<v Speaker 1>so kind, and you have, when it comes, a burden,

0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:32.759
<v Speaker 1>a burden. But we hope we're going to see no

0:36:33.080 --> 0:36:35.160
<v Speaker 1>more of this woman that's in this book. I want

0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:37.000
<v Speaker 1>to see. I can't wait to see what she's going

0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:37.319
<v Speaker 1>to do.

0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:40.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, from your lips to God's ears, I just I'm

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:45.719
<v Speaker 2>so I'm excited, thrilled, terrified all those things, but I'm

0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:47.120
<v Speaker 2>continuing my year of saying.

0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Huma Aberdeen. This episode was recorded at CDM Studios

0:36:57.080 --> 0:37:00.759
<v Speaker 1>in New York City. We're produced by Kathleen so Zach

0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:05.439
<v Speaker 1>MacNeice and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our

0:37:05.600 --> 0:37:09.800
<v Speaker 1>social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's

0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:12.760
<v Speaker 1>the Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio