1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: thing from iHeart Radio. The saying used to be behind 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: every great man is a great woman. But considering my 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: guest today, perhaps that should read behind every great woman 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: is a great woman. Huma Aberdeen is someone who has 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: spent her entire career in public service. Her work with 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: Hillary Rodham Clinton began as a young aide in the 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: First Lady's office, then as a senior advisor to the Senator, 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: deputy chief of staff to the Secretary of State, and 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: now as her chief of staff. Abdeen's decades of collaboration 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: with Clinton bring to mind Richard Nixon's farewell speech to 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: his White House staff, who noted, quote, this house has 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: a great heart, and that heart comes from those who 14 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: serve now. Huma Aberdeen has written an intimate and revealing 15 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: best selling memoir on her life, entitled Both And. The 16 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: book covers her time working in government as well as 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: her personal struggles, including a very public divorce from former 18 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: Congressman Anthony Weener. With such a substantial career in politics, 19 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to know if Aberdeen's upbringing is what set 20 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: her on the path to where she is today. 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 2: My mother is a sociologist. My father studied American civilization, 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: which that's one of the reasons he ended up in 23 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 2: Penn They don't really teach it or have that course 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 2: in many universities now. Yeah, and then they they are 25 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: from two countries that were at war, and so they 26 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: decided they got asylum here and moved to Michigan and 27 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: they My dad taught at Western Michigan. My mom taught 28 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: at Kalamazoo College. 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: How long were they living here before you were born 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: or had you been born? I was you were born here. 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: I was born here and when I was two, and 32 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: we thought we were going to say here forever. I 33 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: Actually I have this whole thing in my life about 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: sliding doors. It's not maybe very healthy, but like what if, 35 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: what if? What if? And I've often thought about what 36 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: my life would have been like if I had lived 37 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: that Midwestern life, which I almost did. But when I 38 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: was too my dad was diagnosed with basically you know, 39 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: terminal illness. He was renal failure and his doctor said, 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: you know, you have five to ten years and get 41 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 2: your affairs in order. How long did he live after 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: the diagnosed, Well, it's amazing that doctor was exactly right. 43 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: His kidneys survived ten years to the day they failed. 44 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 2: And it's one of the first lines I wrote in 45 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: my book. My dad was told he was dying. 46 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: So I don't know if I ever want to see 47 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: that doctor. 48 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: It was amazing, I mean amaze. But the difference between 49 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven in Kalamazoo, Michigan and thankfully nine years later, 50 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: the possibility of getting on the transplant list became, you know, 51 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: something real, which only happened because my mother was so tenacious. 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 2: So he then went on dialysis. So he lived till 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: I was. 54 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: Seventeen, and when did you go over there? 55 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: So two months after his diagnosis, my parents had an 56 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: option to take a sabbatical and their choice was either 57 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: Italy or Saudi Arabia. And then well, interestingly, they had 58 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 2: always decided. They had always thought they would go to Italy. 59 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: They thought it would be this great adventure, they'd go 60 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 2: to Italy. And then my father gets this diagnosis and 61 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: he thought, you know, I want to teach my children 62 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: about their culture, about their faith. We're a Muslim family. 63 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: It seemed like more of an interesting and it was, 64 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: you know, just a year. So they said, why don't 65 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: we do Saudi. It was definitely the hardest choice. My 66 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 2: mother actually said, when you know, my father said let's 67 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: go to Saudi, She's like, and I was too. She says, 68 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: they even have diapers in that country. And I think 69 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: about how intrepid they were. They landed, they didn't speak 70 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: the language. My mother all of a sudden had to 71 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 2: veil herself actually. 72 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: Italy, Saudi Arabia, Italy. 73 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: I think they decided that, you know, there they could. 74 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: It was more of a challenge, and I think they 75 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: liked that. My mother taught herself Arabic to teach her students, 76 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: and then after a year they actually decided to come 77 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: back and then come back, and that was, you know, 78 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: forty four years ago. They kept going to teach. My 79 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: mother taught sociology, and my dad, you know, he arted 80 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: very early on. He he taught a few years been 81 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: very early on. He opened a foundation. And that's actually 82 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: one of the reasons. Even though the foundation was based 83 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: in London, but it was a foundation that produced an 84 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: academic journal that studied the condition of Muslims who lived 85 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 2: as minorities around the world. And my dad's expertise was 86 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: actually in Russia. Well, back then it was the USSR, 87 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: the Soviet Union, and it was his You know, I 88 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: often say this, You know, my father was really prescient 89 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: about a lot of these issues. He basically said, look, 90 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: if we don't figure out as Muslims how to live 91 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: in the world with the rise of the West, we're 92 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: going to have problems. And sure enough he predicted Bosni 93 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: I predicted so much of what we're now, this these 94 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: convulsions that we have. And in part his theory was, look, 95 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 2: if you are practicing Muslim wherever you come from in 96 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 2: the Arab world or you know, through the Muslim world, 97 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: and you choose to live in the West, you cannot 98 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: go there and live in your own little bubble. That's 99 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: just not You're not. You have to You're going to 100 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: go and live in France. You need to become French. 101 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: And also you. 102 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: Can do as the Romans do exactly. 103 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 2: And then and that was the way he thought that 104 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: we could succeed in this world. And I think he 105 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: was right, seeing certainly what's happened. 106 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: So he was working specifically in what during those ten 107 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: years when he was over there, just a multitude of. 108 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: Things, a multitude of things. A lot of his conversations 109 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 2: were about interfaith dialogue. So we would like we spend 110 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 2: one summer in Greece, living in a monastery, at a 111 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: conference about you know, Islamic, Christian, Jewish, you know dialogue, 112 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: and we'd sit at the table and people, a lot 113 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: of Muslims and certainly Arabs and people who lived in 114 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: our world said why why do you do this? Why 115 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: do you go and you know? And they say, you know, 116 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: they would tease him and say, why do you go 117 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: have conversations these provocative conversations where even the angels fear 118 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: to tread. Why do you go have these? You know, 119 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 2: very contentious? And he says, because I want to understand 120 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: and I want to know more about these other faiths 121 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 2: and beliefs and you know kind of cis political systems. 122 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: And I don't have any doubt in my own butlo, 123 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: but I want to learn more. And I think we 124 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: probably have more in common than we realized now. 125 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: For you, other than when you were maybe moving about 126 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: and you mentioned Greece, for one, did you go to 127 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: one school or did you concentrate on just a handful 128 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: of schools when you were there? Where'd you go to school? 129 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: Of high school? 130 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 2: I went to an international school based on a British 131 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: curriculum that my father and a few of the other 132 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 2: professors of the university. Because this was all brand new 133 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy seven when we moved there. And 134 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: you mentioned the oil money. Sure there was all of 135 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: this new wealth, all these amazing. 136 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:32,559 Speaker 1: Just figuring out how much wealth. 137 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: They were just figuring out how much wealth. And they 138 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: were building universities and building hospitals. But they didn't have 139 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 2: the talent. That's why so much of this talent was 140 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: imported at the time. And my parents came in as 141 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 2: part of that imported talent exactly right, And so they 142 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,239 Speaker 2: helped start the school. And so I was a British 143 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: school and it was international. It was actually one of 144 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: the best things ALEC that I think, to be exposed 145 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: to so many different cultures and languages and people from 146 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: all over the world. It made me comfortable everywhere, and 147 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: I think that was a big part of it, was, 148 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 2: you know, being surrounded by people who weren't like me. 149 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: So when you I mean for Americans today, you know, 150 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia is now a concentration of pilots who flew 151 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: for nine to eleven. It's opek and a manipulation of 152 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: oil prices. It's koshoji. I'm talking about the contemporary American 153 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: view of that country. I mean, the United States certainly 154 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: has a lot of blood on its hands for things 155 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: that it's done. I'm not mentioning that to condemn the Saudis. 156 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: The United States is guilty of the exact same things 157 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: during its history as well. But set aside that. Back 158 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: when you were there, what was your Saudi Arabia? What 159 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: was your experience of the culture and the people. How 160 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: do they strike you? 161 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: You know? One of the very first things that really 162 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: hit home when I moved to the United States in 163 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, so I didn't come back. So I 164 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: grew up in Saudi Arabia and I didn't live in 165 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: the United States until I came to university in nineteen 166 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: ninety three. One of the things I missed immediately is 167 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: this sense of community. And we call it, you know, 168 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: in the Muslim world, we call it the oma, and 169 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: the omah is the ever present community, which is you're 170 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: never alone. So I tell stories in the book about 171 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: how you know, you go to a party and you say, 172 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: I like your shirt, and you know, the next thing 173 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: you know, that shirt is sent to your house the 174 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: next day. This notion of there's always, you know, a 175 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 2: seat at the table for more people, there's always food 176 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: to share. You're always in a very kind of secure environment, 177 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: and that is something I kind of took for granted 178 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: when I was growing up there. In fact, I tell 179 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: the story about when my father finally got his transplant 180 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six and he had to leave immediately 181 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 2: to go to the United States, to New York for 182 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: his transplant operation, and one of our very very close 183 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: Saudi friends called my mother and said, should we take 184 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: the girls and me and my siblings? You know, I was, 185 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: you know, nine, My sister was eleven, My younger sister 186 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: was four. For three of you, I'm my brother, so 187 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: four of us total and I and my mother, and 188 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: we were all already scared of all this change. So 189 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: that our friends call and said, why don't the girls 190 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: move in with us, you know, while you guys are 191 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: in the midst of this transplant operation. And I remember 192 00:08:58,240 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: we were also scared. We said to my mom, no, no, 193 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: we I want to go. So on the phone, she 194 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: makes up this excuse and she says, oh, you know, 195 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: the kids have their exams, and their desks and their 196 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: bookcases are here, so we're okay. The next morning there's 197 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: a knock on our door and it's a moving company 198 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: and my mother's like, what are you doing here? And 199 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: they're like, oh, we're here to something about books and 200 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: bookshelves and desks. We're moving, And sure enough they moved 201 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: the furniture into this family friend's home. We lived with 202 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: them while my parents were in the United States. How 203 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: long it was probably about six weeks if I remember correctly, 204 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 2: maybe maybe two months. But this idea again of feeling 205 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 2: ohm the omah. 206 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: So when you leave and you come to the United States, 207 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: and if you had a British centric or British fabric 208 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: in the educational thing over there, but why did you 209 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: come back to the US? Could you say, I'm an 210 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: American and I want to be educated, why don't you 211 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: go to England to go to school? 212 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: Well I had that choice. Actually, my older brother and 213 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: sister chose England, and I always wanted to come to 214 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: the United States. You know, back when I was growing 215 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: up in Saudi, everything that was sort of aspiration, everything 216 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: that was considered the best was American. You know, that 217 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: is you know, back then, America did seem like it 218 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: and it was the sole super power in the world. 219 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely felt like it was a paradise. And so we'd 220 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: come here for the summers. We would stock up on 221 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: all the latest magazines. We would have these bootleg movies 222 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: that we would take back, all the Tom Cruise movies 223 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 2: and you know, like Beverly Hill's Night on number one everywhere. 224 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: He was certainly number one, you know back then, and 225 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: Ralph Macchio and the Karate Kid. I'm thinking of like 226 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 2: all of these, you know, and everything and I and 227 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 2: I write about this. You know, my parents always raised 228 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 2: and said, look, you're an American and you're Muslim, and in 229 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: part because they came from two countries that were at war, 230 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: so they didn't try to put the burden of that 231 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: identity that you have to choose whether you're Indian or 232 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: Pakistani or even Saudi. You know, given the fact that 233 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 2: we lived there and you know, felt a deep connection 234 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 2: to it. You're an American and you're in a Muslim 235 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: And so I remember we would go all over the world, 236 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: and that was one of the great beauties of having 237 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: parents who were academics. They had summers off was one 238 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: of also the great advantages of being a university professor there. 239 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 2: Because my parents, in the early years, in fact, I 240 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: don't think I've ever shared this, they would get four 241 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: first class tickets every summer to go wherever, and so 242 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: we would, you know, take these tickets and we would 243 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 2: go to Europe and Asia, and in part because my 244 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: father was sick and he wanted to explore the world. 245 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 2: He and he didn't know how much time had there's 246 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: benefits to have been. So, I mean, these were secrets 247 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: from us. We did not know how ill he was. 248 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: And I tell this story about you know, my father 249 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: was barely one hundred pounds, and to me, he was 250 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 2: a superhero. You know, he was the greatest, strongest man 251 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 2: on the planet. But he would every spring, you would say, okay, 252 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: where do you want to go this year? And we'd say, okay, 253 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: let's do Asia, and he said, okay. We'd pull out 254 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: a map and we'd have to call the airlines back 255 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: then well wherever, wherever, you know, wherever, and we would 256 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: have you voted on whoever we voted on, and then 257 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: we'd have to help plan it. And my mom did 258 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: all the schlepping and all the lifting, and you know, 259 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 2: my father would be wheeled around in a wheelchair. But 260 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: it was having Number one, it was a way for 261 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: us to spend time together, and number two, it was 262 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: a way to explore the world. And I remember my 263 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: mother tells the story of how we would land in 264 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere sometimes in Shannon, Ireland, you know, 265 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: on our way to you know, refeel somewhere. And I 266 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: would get up and turn to my mother and say, 267 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: is it America yet? And I have a whole chapter 268 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: in my book. I mean that is what, you know, 269 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 2: the excitement, the feeling that you know, ice cream running 270 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: down my hands. You know, when we visited our family 271 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: in Elmhurst, Queens, it was paradise. It was heaven. You 272 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: could go anywhere in the world and landing in JFK 273 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: was the highlight. 274 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: So when you came to the US to when you 275 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: return to the US to go to college, you go 276 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: and you go into politics, but you study journalism as 277 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: a major and poly size is the minor? Did you 278 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: most people? I know? My point is that they go 279 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: to GW for one thing. 280 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 3: Only. 281 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: They don't go there to play the violin. They don't 282 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: go there to get a scholarship. For some sports they play. 283 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: They go there because they got politics in their blood. 284 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: Was that you No, I was I want to gw 285 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: to become Christian. 286 00:12:58,280 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm on poor. 287 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: Journalism was the goal. It was. And you know, I 288 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 2: say this all the time now when I especially when 289 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: I meet younger women. I was sitting on the floor 290 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: of our house and watch this brand new thing in 291 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia and then this is the you know, Operation 292 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 2: Desert Storm, Persian Gulf War, and turn on this brand 293 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 2: new thing called CNN International, and I see this woman 294 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: and she was brilliant and she was fearless. I mean 295 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 2: it was I looked at her and she looked like me. 296 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: She looked like she came from my part of the world, 297 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: and she gave this morphous you know, I went from 298 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: everything I think when I was younger. You know, my dad, 299 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: I think always thought I was going to be a writer. 300 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 2: He would we you know, say that to me, right 301 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: right right. I was a voracious reader. I went through 302 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: a period where I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. 303 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 2: I was really very dramatic. People would come to our 304 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: house and I would say, do you want to listen 305 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 2: to my new poem? And my siblings would roll their eyes. 306 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 2: Like I was a performer growing up. I had a 307 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: lot of sort of confidence. I loved to perform. So 308 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: I think I went through the period of like, I 309 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: want to be an actor, I want to be a singer, 310 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 2: I want to be out there. I wanted to be a. 311 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Balleries how you ended up, but we're going to get that. 312 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 2: I went through all these different phases. But then, and 313 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: I must have been no. I was fifteen. I saw 314 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: her and I said, that's it. That is who I 315 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 2: want to be. And I was singularly focused on being her. 316 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: And that is why I applied to g W and 317 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 2: I went to journalism and I got my degree in journalism, 318 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 2: so graduate degree. I did not get a graduates of 319 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: one of my regrets, but I did not get a graduate. 320 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: When you end, when you do the four years at 321 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: GW and you get a degree in journalism, is journalism 322 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: still the goal is. 323 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: Because my junior year, my friend Ronnie Hibbert came to 324 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: me and said, listen, I've got this great internship at 325 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: the White House. I'm interning for Mike McCurry, who was 326 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: then the White House Press secretary. And she actually said 327 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: to me, she says, you know, when you watch anybody 328 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: giving a you know, a statement from that podium in 329 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: the in the press room, our office is right behind. 330 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: And I thought, oh my god, how better to become 331 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: press than being behind that wall. But you know, chance, 332 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: you know, fate, luck, whatever it was, I got accepted. 333 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: So my friend Ronnie picks up the internship application for me. 334 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: I think basically filled it out for me. I gave 335 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: them my you know, the essays that I used to 336 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 2: apply to GW sent it in. Was accepted, but I 337 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: wasn't put in the press office. I was put in 338 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: the first Lady's policy office. 339 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: Where did you first lay eyes on Hillarby Clinton? And 340 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: you actually talked to her and shook her hand? 341 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: So she doesn't remember this, there's no reason she'd remember this. 342 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: But the first time I laid eyes on her and 343 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: shook her hand was the night of Bill Clinton's re 344 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 2: election nineteen ninety six. So I was a White House 345 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: intern and they, you know, the DNC had made accommodations 346 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: that if interns wanted to go on this charter plane 347 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: at the last minute too Little Rock, Arkansas for election 348 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: night talk about politics on steroids. I had now alec 349 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: I wasn't registered to vote. I had never I mean, 350 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 2: I grew up in a country that was a monarchy. 351 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: Obviously there was no so you know, I went from 352 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: zero to a thousand, and so I get on this 353 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: plane with a bunch of interns. We had to pay, 354 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: you know, write a check for I think two hundred 355 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: and fifty dollars for our ticket. Land and Little Rock 356 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: were wandering around outside, and I'm just kind of just 357 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: in awe. I look up and there's Wolf Blitzer. 358 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: I look up. 359 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: There's intoxicating me. So I, you know, played a little Rock. 360 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: The elections called for Bill Clinton and the Energy and 361 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: the Electricity, and they come out on stage and then 362 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: they come down to work a rope line, and I 363 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: was four or five people deep in and I remember 364 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: leaning forward through the crowd and shaking her hand, and 365 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: she looked right at me and she said thank you. 366 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: And I and I have to tell you, I can't 367 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: even count the number of ropelines I had walked with 368 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton since then, But I remember that moment. I 369 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: remember how it felt, I remember how important it felt. 370 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: I remember that I felt like I made this connection. 371 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: And so every time somebody would say to me, I 372 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: just want to say a lord, I want to shake 373 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: her hand. I got it because I remember that first 374 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: moment and for some people it's it really is a 375 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 2: once in a lifetime to meet a president or a 376 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: first lady. It was really exciting. 377 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: Huma Aberdeen. If you enjoy conversations with accomplished women in politics, 378 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: check out my episode with United States Congresswoman Katie Porter. 379 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 3: You know, I think there is an attitude that you know, 380 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 3: sort of people are entitled to have Republican representation. Here. 381 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 3: What they're entitled to is good representation, right, people who 382 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 3: listen to them, people who fight for them, people who 383 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 3: are not corrupt, and that can come in your Democratic 384 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 3: or Republican forms. 385 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Katie Porter, go 386 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, Huma 387 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: Abdeen shares the tremendous impact of Hillary Clinton's twenty sixteen 388 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 1: election loss. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's 389 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: the Thing. Huma Abodeen is fiercely in intelligent, warm and 390 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: impeccably credentialed. Will Surely anyone would be lucky to employ her. 391 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: I was curious why she stayed in the Clinton camp 392 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: for twenty six years. 393 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 2: You know, I'm getting emotional because I'm sitting at this table. 394 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: She sat where you're sitting right now to do my 395 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 2: first podcast interview after the book came out, and she's 396 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 2: one of the people who really encouraged me to write 397 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: my story. That wound, to some degree does not go away. 398 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 2: I think it is such a travesty and a loss 399 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 2: for this country tragedy. I agree with you that she 400 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 2: was not president in twenty sixteen and how different our 401 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: country and the world would have been, and it is 402 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: their loss. And to see how politics has descended into 403 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: this sort of really a cult of personality. I was 404 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 2: having this conversation with a friend the other day and 405 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: he was like, it's almost like you need to be 406 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: a celebrity, to even a rich celebrity, to even you know, 407 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: run for office and take all that apart. You know, 408 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: you actually have asked me something no one's ever asked me. 409 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 2: I kind of fell into politics, You're right, I mean 410 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 2: I wanted to oviginalist fell into politics. But why. It's 411 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 2: because when I started being in the orbit of Bill 412 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: and Hillary Clinton, forget who they were, that he was 413 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: the most you know, the leader of the free world. 414 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 2: She was the most powerful woman in the world. For them, 415 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: it was all about the mission and the service and 416 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: how do I make I know it sounds cliche and 417 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 2: it sounds cheesy, but there are people who get up 418 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: every single day and say, how do I make other 419 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 2: people's lives better? And I think of all the things 420 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 2: that I have done. There's not a space I have been, 421 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: a place I have been. There isn't a person I 422 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: haven't met that I want to meet. And it still 423 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 2: does not feel the way it feels when you're out 424 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 2: on a campaign, when you're in government and feel and 425 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: know that you can make somebody's life better than you 426 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 2: can do something doing the right thing. And that is 427 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: something I learned from her, and to see her do 428 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: it part of her thing. As you well know, She's 429 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 2: never really thought it was about her. And I think 430 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 2: a lot of politicians and maybe even people in your 431 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: line of work, they get into it. There's some degree 432 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: of whether it's narcissism or some degree of you know, 433 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 2: trying to prove one his own value. But she just 434 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: she just wants to do the work. And I always said, 435 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: the day I got up and she wasn't doing something 436 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: interesting or I didn't want to go to work, or 437 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: I didn't want to talk to her, I would quit. 438 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: And the thing that is so insane to me is 439 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: that after that election which broke us. I mean, I 440 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: write about it in twenty sixty and there are days 441 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 2: that it comes back, and you know, it haunts me. 442 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: It hurts like it hurts like physically. 443 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: I was around her this summer, Liz Robbins, we went 444 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: to that dinner. This is my friend for our listeners 445 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: who she has at dinner and Bill is there a 446 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: couple summers ago. Bill is lecturing us on North Korea, 447 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: and he's talking about now now when the president of 448 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: the United States is telling you what he wants you 449 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: to know, a little digest, a little synopsis about North 450 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: Korean policy, you are well, I don't need to eat, 451 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: forget about dinner, and Liz Robbins is behind his back. 452 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: She's behind Bill's back going like this and cutting her 453 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: throat like this, going you got it, dumb to stop. 454 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: Dinner is ready, and I'm looking at her like, h yeah, 455 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell Bill to stop talking about North Korea. 456 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: And when you're with him, you get a civics lesson. 457 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: He had a political history lesson, and we did with 458 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: her the same thing. But she's just I don't know 459 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: what this inefvitable thing in my business where she just 460 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: she's like Spencer Tracy. Yes, she's just so decent. 461 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 2: She has a few radical empathy number one, number two, 462 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 2: she has this she has like she says, this problem 463 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: solving gene. You know, I think so much of it, 464 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 2: and you know, people, and she's motivated really by not 465 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: anything else. I don't think she cares about being rich 466 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: and famous. I don't think she's ever cared about that. 467 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 2: But I think knowing about her own mother, her own 468 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: mother had a very very difficult childhood, was basically abandoned 469 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: by her parents. And you know, her victory speech in 470 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, she was going to end with this story 471 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: about she tells a story about her mother who is 472 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: put on a train cross country. Her parents didn't want 473 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 2: her and her little sister. So these two little girls 474 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: under ten put on a train to go cross country 475 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 2: to move in with her their grandparents, who also didn't 476 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: really want them. And she said, you know, she imagined 477 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 2: being on that train, sitting next to her mother and 478 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: saying it's going to be okay, you're going to be okay, 479 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: and you're going to grow up and you're going to 480 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: have a daughter, and she will be the first woman 481 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 2: president of the United States. And in the end, she was, 482 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 2: and she was, and I know that she waits to 483 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: remind people. I also like to remind people when people say, well, 484 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 2: why couldn't you guys, Why didn't you guys have the 485 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: energy and sort of why didn't you have all this 486 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: energy behind you? And he said, I'd like to remind 487 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 2: people that three million people more than her opponent voted 488 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: for her, that she did have the energy and enthusiasm 489 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 2: and you know the forces. I do believe she ran 490 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 2: won in twenty sixteen. 491 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: And she did win in twenty sixteen. You know one 492 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: other things that you and she have in common. You 493 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: were both people who your husbands let you down. That's 494 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: my way of putting it. Your husband's let you down. 495 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: And in your case, you will overcome that. You deal 496 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: with that in your way, and you're very honest about 497 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: it in the book, and you keep going. Crisis management 498 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: has been a fundamental pillar of your career. You've worked 499 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: with people who've been in crisis, and Hilary Clinton is 500 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: someone who's been attacked in a way that is as 501 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: ugly and so with you professionally, with the Clintons for 502 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: many years in your personal life, a lot of crisis 503 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: management for you. What prepared you for that? 504 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: I think my childhood. I think the way I was raised, 505 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: the people who raised me, the you know, whether it 506 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 2: was conscious or subconscious. I mean this idea that I 507 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 2: had a mother who is a superhero, you know who 508 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 2: My father was throwing up after his dialysis sessions and 509 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: she was in the bathroom cleaning him up, and you know, 510 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 2: propping him up and putting him at them. 511 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: Very very real. 512 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: I mean these were very and you know, living in 513 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, living in a different cultures, living you know, 514 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 2: sometimes in very frustrating moments, and always thinking all right, 515 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: tomorrow is going to better, Tomorrow is going to be better. 516 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: And then obviously dealing with my father's death I was hard. 517 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: You know, I was in denial for a while. It 518 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 2: took two years for me to actually say out loud 519 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: to people my father's dead. I was basically just you know, 520 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: So I think that to some extent there was crisis 521 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 2: all around me kind of growing up, and I figured 522 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: out how to live and dance and not only live 523 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 2: through it. My mother tells, move on. I mean, my 524 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: mother says, my father's favorite memory from my childhood is 525 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 2: when I would come out of school. I would skip 526 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: out of school and he would call me his gazelle. 527 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons I share in the book, 528 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: this story about the first time I staff Hillary and 529 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 2: her speech is forgotten in the car and she calls 530 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: me on to stage and I'm this kid, I'm barely 531 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 2: twenty one, don't have the speech. And that was the moment, 532 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 2: the moment where you basically either fall apart or say 533 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: I got it. I can fix this. And I fixed 534 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: it in that moment. That was twenty six years ago, 535 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: and I have always figured it out, and I actually 536 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 2: think I have figured out that I'm pretty good at it. 537 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: And I don't know if that's like a marketable skill 538 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: and he were outside of politics. I'm working on that 539 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 2: right now. But it's experience. 540 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: Which idea was the book? 541 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: The book was Anna Winter's idea. No, yes, yes. It 542 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: was ten days after the election. I didn't want to 543 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 2: get out of bed, and she says, let's go to dinner, 544 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 2: and we go to the theater and then go to 545 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 2: dinner and I was it was at the public and 546 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 2: it was Cheryl Strad's Tiny Beautiful Things, and cried and 547 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: cried and cried. And then we go to dinner and 548 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 2: she says, I know what you should do. You should 549 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: write your story. It's a great story. And I said, no, 550 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 2: it's not I'm not going to do it. And the 551 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: next day I go to Hillary and tell Hillary and 552 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: I said, She's like, brilliant idea. You should do. It's 553 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: a good story. I was really in denial. It was 554 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: only when I went to lunch with a man getting 555 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: advice on what to do next in my life and 556 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: told them most and people think I should write my book. 557 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 2: And he was like, why would you do that? And 558 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: I said, well, people have suggested the. 559 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: Man robis here shielding what does he do for a 560 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: living career to say? 561 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 2: He's also a crisis management consultant to an extent. I mean, 562 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 2: you know, he's in sort of the business of, you know, 563 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 2: politics and communications. And he says, listen, I just don't 564 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 2: think you could ever fully explain why Hillary lost. And 565 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: I don't think anyone wants to read any more about 566 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,719 Speaker 2: all that scandal. And it was when you use that 567 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 2: word scandal. I walked out of that restaurant and I 568 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: was writing the book. It was somebody telling me the 569 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 2: story was unworthy. That made me write. And when I 570 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 2: when I started writing, it just poured, it poured out 571 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 2: of me. I loved, loved, loved the writing process. And 572 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: you know, and look, because you asked about Anthony and 573 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 2: my ex husband letting me down, which he did. 574 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: He was on this podcast. 575 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 2: He was on this podcast. Yeah, that's right, he was. 576 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: And you know, I my first usband and wife a 577 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: couple of. 578 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: I should have brought him along. We're we're not talking 579 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 2: about doing some interviews together because people cannot. Are still 580 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 2: in shock. And I get stopped on the street all 581 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 2: the time saying, oh, I'm sure you threw the day 582 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 2: that you met that man. In fact, somebody said that 583 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 2: to me. You know, when I launched the paperback to 584 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, I was like, I'm sure you 585 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: rew the day you met that man. And I stopped 586 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: this person and I said, you know, actually, this man 587 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: gave me the greatest gift in my life. And that 588 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 2: is my son. My opinion, and so no, and I 589 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 2: and I think part of it is people didn't understand 590 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: what was happening. And you know, I only now, you're 591 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: years later, we have a much greater appreciation for mental 592 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 2: health and addiction and and I you know, back then, 593 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 2: only certain like I felt like our friends kind of 594 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 2: in the creative world and Hollywood really understood what was happening. 595 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: And you know, but in politics, I mean, to have 596 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: the first what I argue was sort of Twitter sex scandal. 597 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: It was unheard of back then. People don't know what 598 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 2: to do, and so we would. 599 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: Sacho also with him, if I may just interject you 600 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: with it with him, that the thing is that we 601 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: have so few people now in my estimation, who are 602 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: really really special in politics, and your former husband was 603 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: somebody who people had a lot of belief in him. 604 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: He was you know, at one point, the chapter about 605 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: Anthony was called Icarus because he was I mean, he 606 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 2: really was Markt really smart, really and as you said, 607 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: you know, he was unique. He was a unicorn in 608 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: a way that he was progressive, he was feisty, he 609 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: was smart, he understood the policy. But more than that, 610 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 2: he had solutions. And you know, until he ran for 611 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 2: mayor in twenty thirteen and obviously lost, he'd never lost 612 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 2: an election before too to that point, and so so 613 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: to not then understand the behavior, which I did not, 614 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 2: Alec I'm being very on. I did not as somebody 615 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 2: who grew up so disciplined and with such moderation, you know, 616 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: so you know, I'd just knock off this behavior and 617 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 2: not understanding that he'd really fallen into and you know, 618 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: his all of this compulsiveness was really kind of triggered 619 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: by Facebook and Twitter, that all had just started in 620 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 2: the last couple of years and then just just fall it. Really, it's, 621 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 2: you know, talk about another tragic I think he. 622 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: Let down a lot of people, not just you. Yeah, 623 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: he had people who really believed in him because in 624 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party we just sort of have enough tough people. Now, 625 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: you've been dealing with the political press your entire professional career, 626 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: and some of them have been, you know, remarkably brutal 627 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: and unfair. Who in your life from the conservative media 628 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: when you dealt with them, did you respect and you 629 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: liking that they covered her fairly? Wow? 630 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: That is a question, is as sad, I will say 631 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 2: that I don't know the answer to. I'm not sure 632 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 2: I could give you a name off the top of 633 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: my head. 634 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: Isn't that hard coming from you, That's pretty damn it. 635 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 2: But we lived, I mean when we lived in a 636 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 2: different You know, you've stumped me. I mean, honestly, I can't. 637 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: I think we were always on guard. And to the 638 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: point that you just made about fake news versus you know, 639 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: this notion of you're entitled to your you know, your 640 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: own opinion, but now your own facts. That's out the door. Now. 641 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: Now it's sort of you know, what is fact? What 642 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 2: is fiction? And I struggle to come up with a 643 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 2: single name of somebody who I thought was Look, we 644 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: had challenges with the New York Times, where there were 645 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 2: stories that were just filled with inaccuracies. 646 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: Huma Aberdeen, If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend 647 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the 648 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When 649 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: we come back, Huma Aberdeen ponders whether a political candidacy 650 00:29:54,560 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: is in her future. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening 651 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. Whoma Abadeen was vice chair of 652 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: the Hillary Clinton's twenty sixteen presidential campaign. After such an 653 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: unexpected and painful loss, I was curious what she thought 654 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: it would take for the United States to finally elect 655 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: a female president. 656 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 2: I think this is a generational thing. I mean, I'm 657 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: raising a son, and I am raising my son not 658 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: just to respect women, but not fear their power. And 659 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 2: I think it's conscious and subconscious, this notion of when 660 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 2: you close your eyes and you see somebody who's in charge, 661 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: do you ever see it as a woman, know, you 662 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 2: see it as a man. And how do we change that? 663 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 2: And I think you and I are of a generation 664 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: that that's it's going to be very hard to change. 665 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: And it's proven an election over and over again. I mean, 666 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 2: look at this battle of Kathy Hochles going through right 667 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 2: now in New York. I mean it is I guarantee 668 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 2: you if she was not a woman, I'm not sure 669 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 2: she would it would be as back and neck. But 670 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 2: it's women, and it's and this notion of ambition, you know, 671 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 2: the idea that people always look at us whenever we 672 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 2: are the victim, when we were in service of I 673 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 2: mean Hillary was always most popular when you know, during 674 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 2: impeachment in her husband's administration, and then when she served 675 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: Obama and the minute she says I'm in her approval 676 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: numbers just go down significantly. And that why why it 677 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 2: is the minute a woman as seen as being ambitious 678 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: for power or being in charge, that all of a 679 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 2: sudden something subconsciously and this is not just men, this 680 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 2: is men and women subconsciously. It's like off in our 681 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: head saying no, no, no, no, that can't happen. 682 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: Women who still support the patriarchy. I find that mesmerizing. 683 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: Women who are enemies of candidacies like hell. 684 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 2: And we would knock on doors early on the primary 685 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: and women you know in Iowa would say, I'm gonna 686 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: caucus for Hillary. I'm gonna caucus for Hillary. Wink wink, 687 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 2: but you know, make sure their husband's in here. And 688 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: then sure enough, on caucus day they just said what 689 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: their husbands were doing or told them to do. Whatever 690 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 2: it is. It's just it is. It is a generational 691 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: thing that we have to change. 692 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: Are you going to run? 693 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 2: You know? 694 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: Part of. 695 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 2: About it, well, I haven't really what I that's your demographic? 696 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 2: I well, I so this is my year of saying yes, 697 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 2: I'm doing all kinds of crazy things this year that 698 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: I would have never said yes to two years ago. 699 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 2: For example, I mean this I'm doing interviews, I'm giving speeches, 700 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 2: I'm you know, I'm just exploring the world. I'm seeing 701 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 2: things and meeting people. I'm just doing things I would 702 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 2: have in the olden days. I don't have time for this. 703 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 2: I don't have time for social life. I don't have time. 704 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: You know. It's always about work, and now I'm just 705 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 2: you know, finding more time to do all those things. 706 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 2: So I hate when I say, Okay, I'm definitely not 707 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 2: running for office. I don't see a path. I don't 708 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: see that I would. But I'm in this never say never, 709 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 2: but I don't. I don't see it. I'm also agnostic 710 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 2: about it. 711 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: You've never seen the path? Have you? The woman that 712 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: wanted to be Christian? 713 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: And I'm on poor one. 714 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: That's right in the Sliding Doors biography of hom you've 715 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: never seen the path. You're like me in the sense 716 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: of my whole life has been People would go A 717 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: B or C, and I go, which do I really 718 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: want A B or C? And the answer is D 719 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: something that wasn't even on the table eighteen months. If 720 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: that's the train I got. 721 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: On, well that's the cliff. You know. The book was 722 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 2: originally the prolog was originally called the cliff. I was 723 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: kind of standing on the precipice of that cliff and 724 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: I chose to jump. And I always envisioned that it 725 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 2: was going to be really bad. Jumping just meant hitting 726 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: the ground, and how much pain was that going to be? 727 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: And it's an opportunity as well. Yeah, and this is 728 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: just my opinion. I mean, I'm not trying to give 729 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: you advice here. I'm not trying to encourage you to 730 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: run for office. But the point is is that it's 731 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: an opportunity. Even if you lose, you don't go into 732 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: the thing. It's a chance for you to put on 733 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: the record what you believe about this kind and this government. 734 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: So two more quick things. One is you're developing a 735 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: television series based on your memoir and you went ahead, 736 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: And I can't believe you wouldn't cast the unspeakably unattractive 737 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: and untalented Freeda Pinto to play you. I mean, what 738 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: the hell are you thinking? Freeda Pinto is going to 739 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 1: play you in the TV show. 740 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 2: I was stunned that she wanted to do it. You know, 741 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 2: I'm a big admirer of hers, But more than that, 742 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,879 Speaker 2: I was and I met I met with a lot 743 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 2: of people, and I didn't know where. I'd never met 744 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 2: her in all these years. But she got the book, 745 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 2: she got the story, she got the character. And I think, 746 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 2: while I'm gratified a lot of people have read the book, 747 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 2: I think a lot more people will watch it on 748 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 2: screen and this if there is some sort of service 749 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 2: or interest in the book. I mean, I I'm just 750 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: beyond thrill that she's doing and I can't wait for 751 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: so lucky son act. 752 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: Now, if we're going to end, I want you to 753 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: read that first. This is a letter. Tell us about 754 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: this letter? Where is this from? 755 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 2: This is a note I found just buried in my 756 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 2: dad's papers years after he died, and I thought it 757 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: was a message, you know, from being and I think 758 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 2: it was just something you know, you would scribble these 759 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: notes down. And he had a folder called Random Reflections 760 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 2: and this was from his random reflections folder and it's 761 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 2: titled thought for the Day. As an American, a Muslim, 762 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: and as a member of a fairly decent family, a 763 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 2: commitment should be a commitment. Whatever the provocation. It should 764 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 2: not influence you to act in an unbecoming manner. You 765 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 2: have to be fair, honest, and direct. If you can't 766 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 2: stand the heat, then, as Truman said, get out of 767 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: the kitchen. But your exit should be graceful, decent, and 768 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 2: above board. Let others do what they will. You are 769 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 2: responsible in the first instance, to yourself, your principles and values, 770 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 2: and ultimately to God yahweh Allah, your loving Father. And 771 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 2: I feel as though this was a note that he 772 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 2: left for a to remind us what's important about how 773 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 2: to walk through this earth. 774 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: And you've lived that. 775 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 2: I've tried to You've lived that, and. 776 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: I want you to know. See, the thing about you 777 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: is I'm going to end with the blessing and the curse, 778 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: the sweet and the sour, and that is you are 779 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: a very special and gifted person. But of course with 780 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: that comes tremendous burdens as well, and tremendous demands. It's 781 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: a blessing and a curse. You have a lot of 782 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: burdens on you. This is choking me up here. It's 783 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: so kind, and you have, when it comes, a burden, 784 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: a burden. But we hope we're going to see no 785 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: more of this woman that's in this book. I want 786 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: to see. I can't wait to see what she's going 787 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: to do. 788 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 2: Well, from your lips to God's ears, I just I'm 789 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 2: so I'm excited, thrilled, terrified all those things, but I'm 790 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 2: continuing my year of saying. 791 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: Yes, Huma Aberdeen. This episode was recorded at CDM Studios 792 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: in New York City. We're produced by Kathleen so Zach 793 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 1: MacNeice and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our 794 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's 795 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 1: the Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio