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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courting. Welcome to shop Talk number

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Speaker 1: thirty four. Welcome into the shop. Actually thirty five, it's

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Speaker 1: thirty five. Everybody, Welcome to shop Talk number thirty five.

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Speaker 1: Welcome into the shop. Welcome in, Alex. How are you

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Speaker 1: doing today? Good? This finger? You know? Yeah, well you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be falling down, breaking fingers or whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that you did with that finger. Everybody, Alex has a

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Speaker 1: broken finger. Today's shop Talk number thirty five is Don't

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Speaker 1: let your Babies be Bots. That's the title of it title.

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Speaker 1: I'll take it you like that.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually going to listen to you this time and use.

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Speaker 1: That I just just came up off the top of

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Speaker 1: my head. Don't let your baby be bots by giving

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Speaker 1: them cell phones and having them use them all over

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Speaker 1: the place like a bunch of robots. Right after these

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Speaker 1: brief messages from our general sponsors, everybody, welcome back Shop

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Speaker 1: Talk number thirty five. Don't let your babies be Bots?

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Speaker 1: Inspired by Sandy Groger Groger or Groger What do you think,

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Speaker 1: Sandy Grogerger Groger, Hey, Sandy, thanks for sending this an

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Speaker 1: email she sent another shop Talk idea.

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Speaker 2: Actually read the whole thing it's so good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Dear Bill, I wanted to first take this opportunity

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Speaker 1: to thank you for your podcast. I first learned of

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Speaker 1: you while listening to an episode of Microse the way

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Speaker 1: I heard it when he induced you in your movie.

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Speaker 1: I was fascinated. So the first thing I did was

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Speaker 1: rent Undefeated. Great movie, by the way. I then went

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Speaker 1: and followed your podcast on Spotify. You can follow our

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Speaker 1: podcast on many things including Spotify, iHeart Apple, and wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I can honestly admit to being

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Speaker 1: current and up to date with all of your released episodes,

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Speaker 1: which is a great testament to the engaging and informative

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Speaker 1: nature of your podcast. Seriously, Sandy, thank you. That's really

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Speaker 1: kind of you to say. While all the stories are inspiring,

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Speaker 1: some of them hit me in my heart a little

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Speaker 1: bit more. I've begun volunteering for the local chapter of

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Speaker 1: Sleeping Heavenly Peace. I'm looking into other volunteer options. That

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Speaker 1: made my day. I have an idea for one of

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Speaker 1: your shop talks. Can we please tell parents stop letting

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Speaker 1: their kids have devices at a young age. There are

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Speaker 1: times that prudent and judicious use of an electronics device

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Speaker 1: can be beneficial or at least not harmful to a

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Speaker 1: child's development. But this should be rare, not the norm.

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Speaker 1: Oh Sandy, you're starting to speak to me girl. I

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Speaker 1: see so many kids addicted to phones and iPads. Their

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Speaker 1: parents are so very proud of how smart they think

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Speaker 1: they are because they can quickly scroll through and find

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Speaker 1: their favorite app or video. They can navigate the screen

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Speaker 1: like an IT expert, and can build elaborate structures on

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Speaker 1: apps like Minecraft. Yet these smart kids in her kidnergarten,

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Speaker 1: many of whom have never held a crayon, opened a book,

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Speaker 1: or stopped a physical block. Kids who grow up with

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Speaker 1: advice always are often in their hands, don't know how

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Speaker 1: to handle boredom, don't have a sense of environmental curiosity,

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Speaker 1: don't play with manipulative toys, and don't get outside and

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Speaker 1: get dirty. As a pediatric occupational therapist, I see the

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Speaker 1: ramifications when they enter school. There are so many more

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Speaker 1: pherrals for delays and find motor skills and handwriting that

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Speaker 1: before the days of electronic devices. Kids not only don't

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Speaker 1: hold their crayons or pencils well, they can't even hold

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Speaker 1: them at all. They have not developed the foundation and

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Speaker 1: find motor skills and they also have not learned patience

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Speaker 1: and delayed gratification that has significant sensors processing issues since

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Speaker 1: they haven't experienced the world with all of their senses

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Speaker 1: to be able to interact with and integrate. Their parents

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Speaker 1: are also seemingly addicted to their own device. At least

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Speaker 1: these parents grew up before the widespread use of these

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Speaker 1: phones slash tablets and learned at a young age the

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Speaker 1: foundation of fine motor skills. Kids today are not getting

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Speaker 1: the building blocks and will continue to struggle with not

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Speaker 1: only academics but also daily life skills. While I could

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Speaker 1: go on and on about how technology dependents is putting

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Speaker 1: our children behind, I'll leave it at this. One young

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Speaker 1: kindergartener was handed a book on the first day of school.

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Speaker 1: His teacher tells me that he tried to quote open

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Speaker 1: it by tapping on a picture on the cover, likely

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Speaker 1: thinking it was an icon. This is truly sad. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for your time, thanks for your podcast, Sandy, thank you

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Speaker 1: for your letter, and I now am going to talk

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Speaker 1: about don't make your baby a bot man. Do. I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of thoughts about this one. The first

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Speaker 1: is I am really tired. As a side note of

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Speaker 1: being in a restaurant and looking at a family of

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Speaker 1: four sitting there ordering food together, and then all four

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Speaker 1: of them looking down at their stuff. Lisa and I

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Speaker 1: didn't buy cell phones for our children until they reached

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Speaker 1: eighth grade, and I'm not even sure if that was

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Speaker 1: too early or not, but that's when we decided to

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Speaker 1: do it. But we had a rule. Whenever we got

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Speaker 1: to dinner time, we said, stack them and mine and

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Speaker 1: Lisa's and all four kids phones got stacked in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the table, right next to the mashed potatoes

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Speaker 1: or green beans or whatever, and were not to be

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Speaker 1: touched until supper was over. Because while Sandy's points are

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Speaker 1: really well taken, I don't think the social interaction that

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Speaker 1: she's talking about in school in her letter. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's just a school looks like it's in families

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Speaker 1: and everywhere else. So as I read this, I started

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Speaker 1: goofing around trying to find any content relative to this,

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Speaker 1: and ironically enough, I did find something. It's a story

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Speaker 1: about what school system is this Marina del Rey, Where

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Speaker 1: Marina del Rey, California. I'll be damn, the people that

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Speaker 1: make the phones are now banon them. That's great.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm sure you heard this before. People like

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Speaker 2: Tim Cook and Steve Jobs and other people in Silicon

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Speaker 2: Valley would not allow their kids to have phones either.

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Speaker 2: So the extual makers of all the social media companies, everybody.

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Speaker 1: In the shop needs to hear what Alex just said.

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Speaker 1: The very people who made and designed these phones won't

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Speaker 1: even let their own children have.

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Speaker 2: And social media, the founders of social media companies do so.

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Speaker 1: In the school system, the kids when they show up

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Speaker 1: have to put at their phone in like a gray pouch, right,

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Speaker 1: isn't that right, Alex? That's right? All right? Now, who

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Speaker 1: keeps the pouches? The pouch stay with the school or

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Speaker 1: how's it worked? You know, I don't know. You just

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Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter. They basically the kids can't have

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Speaker 1: their schools their phones. They're put in a pouch and

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Speaker 1: they're unusable. And this is Marina del Ray, California, all right.

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Speaker 1: So six months after this has been going on for

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Speaker 1: two years, I think of Marina del right, So six

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Speaker 1: months after they started the absolutely no phones in school,

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Speaker 1: Principal Dudley says, the entire school culture has changed. Bullying

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Speaker 1: has decreased, and fewer kids are being referred to the

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Speaker 1: office Dudley ads that students are improving academically. You know

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Speaker 1: the smart kids that Susan talks about, they're improving academically.

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Speaker 1: Their scores on State Standardized test improved from the beginning

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Speaker 1: of last school before the band was in place, to

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Speaker 1: the end of the school year when the campus was

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Speaker 1: phone free. Teacher Asha Nash says she's no longer using

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Speaker 1: valuable class time to hound students about their phones. Says

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Speaker 1: they're even checking themselves out in the mirror less. It's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the kids are actually engaged and they

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Speaker 1: seem this is crazy happier. The other thing I read

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Speaker 1: is the hallway in between classes. Check this out, Alex.

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Speaker 1: The hallway when classes are switching is exponentially louder because

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Speaker 1: the kids are actually talking to each other. Is that

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Speaker 1: not interesting social interaction because you're headed and buried in

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Speaker 1: a screen. Guys, if you're listening to me, Susan is

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Speaker 1: clearly more than just a person writing a letter. She

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Speaker 1: is far too much documentation. And my guess is she's

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Speaker 1: some type of educator administrator. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: She's it says in there she said she's I a

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Speaker 2: psychologist in the schools it's in there.

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Speaker 1: Oh. Oh, she's a pediatric occupational therapist. She's a lot

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Speaker 1: more than a teacher and everything.

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Speaker 2: She's like, just to be fair to you, we took

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Speaker 2: a like a twenty minute break there to talk about

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Speaker 2: your work.

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Speaker 1: We did between whenever it's you to go in between

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Speaker 1: when I read the letter and right now I had

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Speaker 1: a disaster happened at work, and now I'm getting back

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Speaker 1: to it. But yes, she's Susan's a pediatric occupational therapist,

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Speaker 1: and she sees fine motor skill delay. She sings people

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Speaker 1: tapping on the front of books to quote open it.

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Speaker 1: And then these folks and Marina del Rey once they

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Speaker 1: ban sees happier, more engaged, smarter, better tested, and kids

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Speaker 1: more engaged with less bullying. What else do we need

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Speaker 1: to hear? Folks? Your children don't need cell phones at

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Speaker 1: an early age. It is prohibiting their growth. It is

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Speaker 1: prohibiting their ability to interact. It is prohibiting their ability

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Speaker 1: to grow. Not long ago, I did a shop talk

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Speaker 1: on let your kids skin their knees. You know what,

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Speaker 1: They're never going to skin their knees if they're at

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Speaker 1: home on a phone. They don't have a phone they're

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Speaker 1: going to go outside interact with kids, and then they're

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Speaker 1: going to skin their knees, and then that shop talk

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Speaker 1: makes sense. So Susan asked that I did a shop

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Speaker 1: talk on the danger of making your baby's bots, and

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Speaker 1: it really is detrimental. And what happens to the future

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Speaker 1: of the quote army of normal folks engaging in community

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Speaker 1: if they don't know how to engage unless it's through

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Speaker 1: ast screen, develop into personal relationships. How do you have

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Speaker 1: the patience to invest time when you are so used

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Speaker 1: to having immediate gratification provided by a phone. How do

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Speaker 1: you fail? How do you learn from the failing? Babies

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Speaker 1: are not supposed to be bots. Babies are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be nurtured, learn how to interact, have interpersonal relationships, talk, smile,

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Speaker 1: and not be buried in a phone. I'll be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I don't know what the right age is

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Speaker 1: to give your kids phones, but I know it's not kindergarten.

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Speaker 1: I think Lisa and I would probably have delayed the

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Speaker 1: phone to sophomores now if we had to do over

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Speaker 1: again when our kids were coming through. They're twenty nine, eight,

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Speaker 1: seven and six now, So the whole phone thing was

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Speaker 1: kind of new when they were coming through. But I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure I wouldn't do eighth grade anymore. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure I would. You know, driving age maybe, and if

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Speaker 1: you're concerned about their safety and how do they get

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Speaker 1: in touch with you and and all of that. Well,

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Speaker 1: the school has answered that as well. They have.

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Speaker 2: You call the front office. It's not that hard.

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Speaker 1: They have Yeah. I was about to say, they have

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Speaker 1: this thing called a hard line. Yeah, it's interesting. And

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Speaker 1: when you doll a seven digit combination, it picks right

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Speaker 1: on up.

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Speaker 2: A couple of things. This is usually you on shop

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Speaker 2: Talk mostly, but a lot of listeners may know about

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Speaker 2: Jonathan Hite is big on this topic, and I wasn't

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Speaker 2: aware of this. I'm just reading this article that he

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Speaker 2: mentions about wait until eighth So there's a whole parent

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Speaker 2: movement out there of getting people to wait at least

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Speaker 2: until eighth grade.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess we did that right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I did high school and I thought that

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Speaker 2: was good. But he Jonathan often talks about like parents

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Speaker 2: needing to have a pact together because one of the

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Speaker 2: big arguments is like the kids are left out if

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Speaker 2: they don't have a cell phone, but all their other

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Speaker 2: friends do, and so you need to have a pact

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Speaker 2: with a couple other families and that's all you need.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's really like creating an army of normal

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Speaker 2: folks who are joining together and saying, hey, together, we

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Speaker 2: are going to do this that their kids are not

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Speaker 2: going to have cell phones until eighth grade or high school.

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Speaker 1: And you know what, if kids can't have their phone

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Speaker 1: in school and they're used to not being able to

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Speaker 1: use it in school, like these kids at Marina del right,

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Speaker 1: then not getting it to lighth grade won't be that

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Speaker 1: big a deal because they're not like ostracized for not

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Speaker 1: having a phone at school. I mean, it all works together,

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Speaker 1: this idea of this pat of parents. I love it.

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Speaker 2: You just need a couple of good friends.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: If you just have a couple other families in with

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Speaker 2: you on this pact, you're good.

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Speaker 1: That understand what they're doing to their kids with these things. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: everybody shop talk number thirty five. Don't make your baby's bots.

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Speaker 1: There's tons of information on internet. There's a great story

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Speaker 1: from Sandy or a great letter from Sandy to support

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Speaker 1: what we're saying. If your grandparent talk to your children

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Speaker 1: about what they're doing with your grandchildren, if your parent,

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Speaker 1: think about what we're saying. And if you're young and

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Speaker 1: listening to me and you have that phone, think about

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Speaker 1: putting it up every once in a while. Just having

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Speaker 1: a conversation with a human being, witnessing facial expressions and

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Speaker 1: hearing laughter rather than emojis. You might experience some sensations

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Speaker 1: that that phone can't give you. It just won't vibrate

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Speaker 1: that into your brain. That's shop Talk number thirty five.

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Speaker 1: Don't make your baby's pots. Guys. If you have any

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Speaker 1: ideas for shop Talk, you can write me anytime at

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Speaker 1: Bill at normal folks dot us and I will respond.

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Speaker 1: If I think we have something to add or to

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Speaker 1: offer or to comment on like we have, I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: If not, I'll just respond and thank you for the

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Speaker 1: idea and tell you I don't really feel comfortable talking

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Speaker 1: about it because I will sound more like an idiot

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Speaker 1: than I normally do. If you like this thing, y'all,

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Speaker 1: please rate us, review us, subscribe to the podcast, tell

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Speaker 1: folks about us, share us, share us with friends and

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Speaker 1: on social and all that stuff. This is Bill Courtney

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Speaker 1: at shop Talk number thirty five. Don't make your Baby's bots.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of a weak ring, was it. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think you're tired at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're leaving. It's end of the day, y'all. We'll

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Speaker 1: see you next week.