1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: As Media. 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zichron. 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: What. 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 2: It's been a shitty week for many obvious reasons, and 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 2: I challenge you at this time to be kind to 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: yourself and to the people around you. Be kinder, old, 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: I'm closer, be more supportive, say nicer things. But specifically 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: to my trans listeners, I love you, You're loved and accepted. 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: Fuck these people, Fuck the Executive Order. I'm so sorry. 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: And anyone who agrees with the that EO or is 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: against trans people, you can go fuck yourself. Like I 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: need you to download something else, go and do something 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: else with your time. I'm not interested in helping you. 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: You are not my friend. You will never be my friend. 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: If you're against trans people, I'm against you. Anyway, back 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: to the podcast. So, I've been back from CEES for 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: a week now and I'm finally recovering. And I appreciate 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: everybody who listened to the thirteen and a half hours 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: of audio we put out, and a big thank you 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: to the whole team there, Edward and Gwayso Junior, David Roth, 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: Phil Broughton, Matt Sowski and everyone else who came along. 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 2: Now we're back to our regular format, and it's likely 23 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: going to be a rotation between more of the talk 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: radio stuff you heard at cees and then heard with 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: Paris Martineau and Jeff Jarvis, and then stuff like this 26 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: spoken word. I'm back baby. But twenty twenty five it's 27 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 2: going to be a chaotic year. You're going to feel 28 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: a deficit of hope. I've said this before, but I'm 29 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: going to say it again. The best thing you can 30 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: do right now is to hold those people you love closer, 31 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: Treat everyone around you, like I said, a little more kindly, 32 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: Listen more keenly to the things that people are saying, 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 2: and put your heart and soul into the things you 34 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: do and the things you do for others. You may 35 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: not be able to change much at scale, but you 36 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: can improve your immediate orbit the bubble around you. 37 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 3: Now. 38 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: In this week's two parter, I'm going to talk to 39 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: you about the people who choose to do the direct opposite. 40 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: They use their power on their platform to exploit and 41 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: hurt people for money, or they use another platform to 42 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: help maintain the status quo, usually at the cost of 43 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: other people's happiness. You see, in the last few weeks, 44 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: we've seen the emergence of what I call the true 45 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: Meta and of course the true Mark Zuckerberg As the 46 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: company chose to end its fact checking program in early January, 47 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: claiming that and I quote fact checkers have been too 48 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've created 49 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: on both Instagram and Facebook, the latter of which are 50 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: shown in a study from George Washington University to by 51 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: design and I quote again afford anti vaccine content producers 52 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 2: several means to circumvent the intent of misinformation removal policies. 53 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: Metas also killed its diversity, equity and inclusion programs, something 54 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: that I expect other tech firms to copy, unrestrained by 55 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: any kind of societal norms under an administration that seems 56 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: intent on destroying as many of them as possible. Shortly 57 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 2: after announcing the policies, Zuckerberg went on the Joe Rogan 58 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: experience and had what I would describe as a full 59 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: scale pissfit, claiming that corporate are culturally newted and that 60 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: companies should have both more masculine energy and have a 61 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: culture that celebrates the aggression a bit more, and then 62 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 2: he added that said culture would have its own merits 63 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: that are really positive. I none of this means anything. 64 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg also believes that the modern corporate culture has somehow 65 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: framed masculinity is bad, something that he doesn't really attempt 66 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: to elaborate on or explain or frame with any kind 67 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: of evidence because he's on the Joe Rogan experience, and 68 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: because he also knows no one's going to fucking ask him. 69 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 2: And it's it's just this kind of directionless grievance, and 70 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: it feels me full of piss and vinegar myself. And 71 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: this means, by the way, that Metin has now and 72 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: I quote their own announcement, gotten rid of a number 73 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: of restrictions on topics like immigration, gender identity, and gender 74 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: that are subject to frequent political discourse and debate, which 75 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: in practice means that Meta now allows you to say 76 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: that being gay as a mental illness, or describe immigrants 77 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: as filth and as an immigrant. I find that disgusting. 78 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: I find all of this so fucking disgusting. They, as 79 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: I'll get to in this episode, they never really cared 80 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: that much. But to formalize this stuff is so utterly hurtful. 81 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: It's a template for worse people. And Facebook of Meta 82 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: is right down at the fucking bottom of a barrel. 83 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: This is going to give other companies something to borrow. 84 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: And it's just when I read this stuff, I just 85 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: I hear the Perry Mason music from kill Bill. Anyway, 86 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: moving on with the episode. Now, surprise here, Casey Newton, 87 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: a platformer who I have been deeply critical of and 88 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 2: will be very critical of in a later episode, has 89 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: done a really excellent job reporting on exactly how horrifying 90 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 2: these policies are, revealing how Meta's internal guidelines allow Facebook 91 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 2: users to say that trans people are both mentally ill 92 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: and don't exist. Which, to be clear, if you're listening 93 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 2: to this and saying that you agree with that, I'd 94 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: like you to stop listening for a second. I'd like 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: you to get your car keys of you to close 96 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: your garage, don and I'd like you to start the 97 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: fucking ignition just in case it's really it's not clear 98 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: enough how I feel about anti trans people. It also 99 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: included one of the most wretched things I've ever read. 100 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: Alex Schultz Meta CMO, who is a gay man, suggested 101 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: in an internal post that people seeing their queer friends 102 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: and family members abused on Facebook and Instagram could lead 103 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: to increased support for LGBTQ rights. This is, and I 104 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: don't say this lightly, one of the most disgusting and 105 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: offensive and stupid things I've ever heard a tech executive say. 106 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: But let's be abundantly clear, this is exactly the kind 107 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: of social network that Mark Zuckerberg wants, an unrestrained, unfiltered, 108 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 2: unrepentantly toxic, and noxiously heteronormative, one untethered by the frustrating 109 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: norms of making sure that a social network of billions 110 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: of people doesn't actively encourage hate of multiple different marginalized groups. 111 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: And I am so angry about this because it's all 112 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: so needless. It's all so needless. But everything, everything, has 113 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: to be thrown into the fire for growth. That's who 114 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: these fucking people are. But dear Listena, don't worry Mark Zuckerberg. 115 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: He's finally free. Finally, Mark Zuckerberg, CEO and founder of 116 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 2: Meta can do whatever he wants, as opposed to the 117 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: past twenty years, where it's hard to argue that he's 118 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 2: one of the most, if not the single, most punished 119 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: man alive. You see Marky Marx net worth recently hit 120 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 2: two hundred and thirteen billion dollars. He's running a company 121 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: with a market capitalization of one point five trillion, and 122 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: he can never be fired from it. He even owns 123 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: a fourteen hundred acre compound in Hawaii, And while dealing 124 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 2: with all of this suffering, he had to once, sorry, 125 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: I mean twice, sit in front of a Senate hearing 126 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: and lazily apologize for something non specifically he was tortured, 127 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 2: tortured only six years after having done it last. I 128 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: am being very sarcastic. Obviously this man has not suffered. 129 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: I don't want to say the next part of that sentence, 130 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: but he's not suffered at all. He's had the easiest 131 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: go of it, just like the rest of these fucking people. 132 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: Few living people have had it easier than Mark Zuckerberg. 133 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: He's a man insulated from consequence, risk, and responsibilit and 134 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: he has been for like twenty years. The sudden and 135 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: warranted alarm to this, by the way, and I will 136 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: say the media has acted with enough alarm here. Here's 137 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: this air of surprise, though it frames Meta and Mark 138 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg like they just suddenly were like, hmm, what if 139 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: we were super bigoted? What if our new network could 140 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: what if it could be more racist. We need to 141 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 2: please Donald Trump, because that's not what Meta has been 142 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: doing before, right, They've never been Well, we'll get to 143 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 2: that in a bit, but I kind of want to 144 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: take you back in memory lane a bit a long 145 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: time ago, by which I mean August twenty twenty four. 146 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: The people in the media today saying, oh wow, Mark 147 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg has suddenly gone conservative, He's suddenly right wing. Me 148 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: months ago, they were fawning over this guy. They were 149 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: fawning over his new look. They were desperate to hear 150 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: about his gold chains and why he was wearing them, 151 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: and they declared that he had the swagger of a 152 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: Roman emperor, and that he had and I quote the 153 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: Washington Post here, transformed himself from a dorky democracy destroying 154 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: CEO into a dripped out, jacked AI accelerationist. In the 155 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: eyes of potential Meta recruits, Zuckerberg was, until these last 156 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: few weeks, being celebrated for the very thing that people 157 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: are upset about right now. Flimsy, self conscious and performative 158 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: matro bullshit that only signifies strength to weak men and 159 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: those credulous enough to accept it, which in this case 160 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: means almost every media outlet. The only difference between then, 161 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: when Mark was with his chains in his big baggy 162 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: T shirt and he looked like Kevin Fedline and now 163 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: is that Mark Zuckerberg has finally decided to be honest 164 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: after all. Where was the punishment or judgment for his 165 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: last matro media bullshit? If anything, it kind of proved 166 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: that anyone will accept anything that Mark Zuckerberg does at all. 167 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 3: Yet, I really want to be clear that what. 168 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: We're seeing with Meta and by extension, Zuck is not 169 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: sudden at all. It's the direct result of a man 170 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: that has never ever ever been held in check. It's 171 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: utter fantasy to describe or even hint that these changes 172 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: are the beginning of some sort of unrestrained Meta rather 173 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: than part of the intentional destruction of this product and 174 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: all of their products in the market. Leader of rot economics, 175 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,959 Speaker 2: this is the rot economy. This is everything I've been 176 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: telling you about growth at all costs. Except the costs 177 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: now are the safety of trans people, a safety of 178 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: LGBTQ people, the safety of immigrants. This hostile network that 179 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: was already pretty hostile, and I will get to that 180 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: is now basically saying thumbs up, go nuts, be as 181 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: bigoted as your fucking one. It's disgraceful. And as I 182 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: said in the middle of last year, Metas spent years 183 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: gradually making the experience of its products worse in pursuit 184 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: of perpetual growth. And if you go back to the 185 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: people Destroying Facebook that podcast episode that was actually from 186 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: Mark Zuckerberg, you wanted something like twelve to fourteen percent 187 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: perpetual year of a year growth. Insane stuff. But when 188 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 2: I say intentionally, I mean the product decisions like limiting 189 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: the information in notifications as a means of making users 190 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: click more and go around the page rather than I 191 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: don't know, being notified of something and knowing something, or 192 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 2: heavily promoting clickbait articles. This was all to keep people 193 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: on the site longer, and they've been doing it for 194 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 2: years in broad daylight, and it's led to this deterioration 195 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 2: of Facebook and soon Instagram that is just disgraceful, but 196 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 2: not as disgraceful as formalizing horrible hate field policies. And 197 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 2: some are touting Zuckerberg's current move as some sort of 198 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: master plan to appease Donald Trump and the conservatives, and 199 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 2: they're suggesting that this is a magification of these platforms 200 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: where conservatives will somehow be given I don't know, preferential treatment. 201 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: Perhaps maybe like Facebook's algorithm, it could promote more conservative content. Man, 202 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 2: wouldn't that be really bad? Wouldn't it be bad if 203 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: Facebook's algorithm was intentionally and repeatedly recommending conservative content. It's 204 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: been doing it for fucking years. Why are we pretending 205 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: like this is new? Why is everyone acting like this 206 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: is new? On going insane? I am actually going in 207 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: ain't because the actual problems here have been there a while. 208 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: The only thing that's changed is they formalize them. 209 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 3: And I am so. 210 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: Angry in this episode because I can't leave these people unaccountable. 211 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: I cannot have people that wrote about this pretend like 212 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 2: this is new, like this is sudden. It's time for 213 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: everyone in the media to take a little bit of 214 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 2: fucking responsibility for what we've done. But give me a second, though, 215 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: I actually want to lead you through someone who did 216 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: a pretty good job. And you're not gonna believe me, 217 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 2: but it's Kevin Russ of The New York Times. 218 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: You see. 219 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, Russ created an automated Twitter account called 220 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: Facebook's top ten listening the top performing posts, So what 221 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 2: post was shared, viewed, and commented on the most on 222 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: Facebook by US Facebook pages, and he posted it on 223 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: a daily basis. He was able to do this using 224 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 2: something called crowd Tangle, a data analytics tool provided by 225 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: Facebook specifically for researchers and journalists to understand what was 226 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 2: happening on the world's largest social network at the time. 227 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: Ruce's reporting revealed that Meta's top performing links regularly skewed 228 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: toward right wing influences like Dan Bongino, Ben Shapiro, and 229 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: Sean Hannity, as well as outlets like Fox News and 230 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: the page of then President and I guess now President 231 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Internally, Meta was kind of freaking out, suggesting 232 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 2: that Ruth wasn't really getting what it meant because engagement 233 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: was a misleading measurement of what was popular on Facebook. 234 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: They suggested that the real litmus test was something called reach, 235 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 2: as in how many people actually saw a post. Ruce 236 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: also reported that the internal arguments of Meta led it 237 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: to suggest it'd make a separate Twitter account of its 238 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: own that had what they would call a more balanced 239 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: view of its internal data, which one hundred percent makes sense. 240 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: Meha even suggested the obvious answer sharing reach data, as in, 241 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: again how many people actually saw a post, and that 242 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: this would somehow vindercate their position. One nasty little detail 243 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: bone crowd Tangle CEO told them that well foursome misleading 244 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 2: news stories also rise to the top of the reach list. 245 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 2: In simpler terms, they didn't share the reach data because 246 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: it would prove that Facebook was in fact a misinformation machine. 247 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 2: The reporting around crowd Tangle, though, danced around in important detail. 248 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 2: They were just talking about posts and you know, these 249 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: are just the posts that happened to be on Facebook, right, 250 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: It just happens that Dan Bongino got to the top 251 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: all of these times. How did that happen? Well, let 252 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: me tell you how it fucking happened. They were likely 253 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: recommended by Facebook's algorithm, which is reliably and repeatedly skewed 254 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: conservative for years. A study in the Economist from September 255 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: twenty twenty found that the most popular American media outlets 256 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: on Facebook in a one month period were Breitbart and 257 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 2: Fox News, and that both Facebook page engagements and website 258 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: used heavily skewed conservative. This is quite old that this 259 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: has been happening a while. 260 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: Well, one could. 261 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 2: Argue that this might just be the will of the users. 262 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: What a user sees on face. This book is almost 263 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 2: entirely algorithmic now, and it certainly was back then, and 264 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: it's reasonable to assume that said algorithm was deliberately pushing 265 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 2: conservative content. At this time, metas head of public policy 266 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 2: was Joel Kaplan, a man whose previous work involved working 267 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: as George W. Bush's deputy chief of staff for policy, 268 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: as well as handling public policy and affairs for Energy 269 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: Future Holdings. 270 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 3: Really fucked up little story for you. 271 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: This was a company, a private equity firm, kind of 272 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: Katamari situation, which brought up a giant Texas power company 273 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: called TXU forty five billion dollars and then immediately steered 274 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: it into bankruptcy due to the thirty eight point seven 275 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: billion dollars in debt that Energy Future Holdings was forced 276 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: to take on as a means of acquiring the power company. 277 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: It's private equity again. It's always fucking private Jesus Christ. Anyway, 278 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: this is the now, the policy headed META, and he 279 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: has been four years. 280 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 3: It's all very good anyway. 281 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: Jeff Horwitz reported in his wonderful book Broken Code that 282 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: Kaplan personally intervened when Facebook's health team attempted to remove 283 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: covid conspiracy movie plan from its recommendation engine, and Facebook 284 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: only did so once Kevin Roos reported that it was 285 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: the most engaged link in a twenty four hour period. Naturally, 286 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: Met's choice wasn't to fix things, or improve things, or 287 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 2: take responsibility or issue were comments saying hard we're going 288 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: to look into the conservative thing. No, no, no, why 289 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 2: would they do that. By the end of twenty twenty one, 290 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 2: Meta had disbanded the entire crowd Tangle team, and in 291 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: early twenty twenty two, the company had stopped registering new 292 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: users for crowd Tangle. In early twenty twenty four, months 293 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: before the twenty twenty four elections, crowd Tangle was shut 294 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: down entirely, though Facebook Top ten had stopped working in 295 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 2: the middle of twenty twenty three. What I'm getting at 296 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: is that Meta hasn't made a right wing turn. Meta 297 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: has been an active arm of the right wing media 298 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: for nearly a decade, actively empowering noxious, horrifying creatures like 299 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: Alex Jones, allowing him to evade bands and build massive 300 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: private online groups on the platform so that he could 301 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: still send his shit out even when he was banned. 302 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: A report from November twenty twenty one by medium Mattters 303 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: found that Facebook had tweaked its news algorithm into twenty 304 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: one to help right leaning news and political pages to 305 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 2: outperform other pages using and I quote sensational and divisive content. 306 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: Another medium Matters report from twenty twenty three found that 307 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: conservatives were continually earning more total interactions than left or 308 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: non aligned pages between January first, twenty twenty and December 309 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: thirty one, twenty twenty two, even as the company was 310 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: actively deprioritizing political content, by which I mean the algorithm 311 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 2: was allegedly showing year less politics unless, of course, you 312 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: were conservative. A report from last year from nonprofit Glad 313 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: found that Meta had continually allowed widespread anti trans hate 314 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: content across Instagram, Facebook, and threads, but the company either 315 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: claiming that the content didn't violate its community standards or 316 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: just ignoring the reports entirely. While we can and should 317 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 2: actively decry mes disgraceful new policies, it's kind of ahistorical 318 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: to pretend that this company gave a shit in the past, 319 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 2: or took it seriously, or just that they cared. It 320 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 2: pisses me off because if we act now like they've changed, 321 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: they don't get held accountable at all. But then again, 322 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 2: did they before? Have they ever been held accountable? Oh no, 323 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: the answer is no. By the way, there are reporters 324 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 2: who have done really good work on this, Russ Kevin Rus, 325 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: who've given a lot of shit. He did some really 326 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: great reporting on crowd tankled Jeff Horwitz from the Wall 327 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: Street Journal, along with the other tea but did the 328 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: Facebook files, which get too later. There are people doing 329 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: great work. The problem is there's just this kind of 330 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 2: weak and inconsistent approach that the media has taken to 331 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: Meta and to Mark Zuckerberg, and none of these changes, 332 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: none of these things that I'm saying here are particularly 333 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: hard to find. If you look this up, you could say, hey, 334 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: look exactly as I am right now. Hey, this doesn't 335 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 2: seem to be a new policy. This just seems to 336 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: be them deciding to formalize their lack of effort to 337 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 2: protect trans people, their lack of effort to stop conservative 338 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: demagogues doing stuff. I mean, it's just it's frustrating. It's 339 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: frustrating and annoying, and seeing them formalize it fills me 340 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 2: full of poison in my veins. It's just it's hateful, 341 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: it's racist, it's violent, it's cruel, it's bigoted, and it's 342 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 2: how it's been for so long. 343 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 3: Why are we not just able to call these people 344 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 3: what they are? 345 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: And they really will do whatever they want to or 346 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 2: need to for growth. And I'm going to quote something here. 347 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 3: I'm going to. 348 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 2: Quote Facebook's old vice president Andrew Bosworth from an internal 349 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: email from twenty seventeen. I've may have mentioned before, and 350 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: I quote all the work that Facebook does in growth 351 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: is justified, even if it's bullying or a terrorist attack 352 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: carried out on their platform. And yes, that's exactly what 353 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: he said, by the way. And you'd think a guy 354 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: who's like, yeah, you know, growth just we need to 355 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: grow at all costs. And indeed, if something bad happens 356 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: as a result, at least we connected people. You'd think 357 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 2: that a letter like that getting out was in twenty seventeen, Yeah, 358 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 2: that would lead to him being probably putting a naughty box. 359 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 2: I won't get promoted, would he. He wouldn't become the 360 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: chief technology officer, would he? Because that's what Andrew Bosworth is. Now, 361 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: this is what this company is. It's time to stop 362 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: pretending that Meta was ever something noble or good or 363 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: well meaning. Mark Zuckerberg is a repressed coward as far 364 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: from manly as one can get. Because true masculinity, if 365 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 2: you can even fully I don't even know if you 366 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: can really give it a full definition, but I will 367 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 2: tell you what is masculine. It's a sense of responsibility 368 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 2: for both oneself and others and the things that we do, 369 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 2: and finding strength in supporting, en uplifting those close to you, 370 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 2: and loving more and caring. 371 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 3: More for people. 372 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: I don't really want to put down a hard and 373 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 2: fast one, but that's part of what masculinity is for me. 374 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: It isn't being a fucking crybaby billionaire going on Joe 375 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: row and going where oom oh the company's not masculine enough. Coward, motherfucker. 376 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 2: It's disgusting and Meta as an institution has been rotten 377 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 2: for years, making trillions of dollars as it continually makes 378 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 2: their services work, all to force users to spend more 379 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 2: time on the site, even if it's because Facebook and 380 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: Instagram are our engineered to interrupt everything you're doing, your 381 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: decision making, your autonomy with a constant slew of different 382 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: forms of sponsored and algorithmically curated crap. The quality of 383 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 2: the experience, something the media has categorically failed to cover, 384 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: has never been lower on Facebook or Instagram. I'm not 385 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: sure how anyone writing about this company for the last 386 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 2: few years has been able to do so with a 387 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 2: straight face. The products suck, They're getting worse, and yet 388 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: the company has never been more profitable. Facebook is crammed 389 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: with fake accounts, AI generated crap and nonsense, groups teaming 390 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 2: with boomers pushing stupid greeny memes that say I wish 391 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 2: we had can to a culture of respect, as they 392 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 2: recommended their third racist meme of the day. Instagram is 393 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: a carousel of screen filling, sponsored nonsense and recommended crap, 394 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: and users are constantly battling with these products to actually 395 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 2: see the things that they log on to see. I 396 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 2: want to be explicit here. I do not believe enough 397 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: reporting is being done into the fact that Facebook is, 398 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 2: as a product both bordering on useless and run in 399 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 2: such a way that it's actively harmful for society. Some 400 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 2: important facts to begin with are that the initial feed 401 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 2: on Facebook is totally algorithmic, with large chunks of the 402 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: screen taken up by stuff that Facebook pushes on you. 403 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: We don't really know how their algorithm works, after all, 404 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: not like there's any legislation or regulation that requires them 405 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 2: to disclose it, but we do know that it's built 406 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: to get people to engage with the content, even if 407 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 2: said content is low quality in send, or a racist 408 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: or misleading. The biggest thing to know about the modern 409 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: Facebook experience, and I must be really clear here, is 410 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 2: that it's effectively unmoderated. I refer to Jeff Horwitz's Broken 411 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: Code earlier. It's a really powerful book. Everybody should read 412 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: it because it's the most clear eyed view of how 413 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: bad this company has been and for how long it's 414 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 2: been this bad. But the big thing that Jeff brings 415 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: up is that everything internally at Facebook is about remove friction. 416 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: Now you may think, I mean, oh, so that would 417 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 2: make a really good experience. No, Removing friction in this 418 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: case means allowing people to post whatever they want. Groups 419 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: that are giant scams which I'll get too soon, or 420 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: just nonsense, groups that spread misinformation, fake sports news memes 421 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 2: that make people pissed off and more racist. And some 422 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 2: of the shit I've seen on Facebook going back years 423 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 2: is horrifying. And while there are mechanisms that Meta has 424 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: in place to stop outright illegal things like pornography and violence. Effectively, 425 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: anything else is fair game. I have in preparing this script, 426 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 2: found fifty different groups that are nakedly scamming users, each 427 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 2: one with anywhere from one thousand to eighteen thousand different members, 428 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: each trying to work out why they can't access things 429 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 2: like their Facebook or PayPal account. And finding these groups 430 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: is super easy. Just type Facebook support and scroll down 431 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 2: into the search bar at the top of your Facebook account. 432 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: And by the way, the scam's fairly simple. People go 433 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 2: into these groups that are like, oh, I can't access Facebook. 434 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: They are on Facebook at the time, but perhaps they're 435 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: just locked into the app, and they go in there 436 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 2: and they say, hey, I need help, I need help 437 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 2: getting back in, and usually a scammer from the Global 438 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 2: South will be there and say, yeah, message me. They 439 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 2: get their password, they get their email, they get access 440 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 2: to something else, and then they start stealing shit. And 441 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: I really must be clear how easy it is to 442 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 2: find these scam groups and how many people are very 443 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: clearly falling into them. It's really worrying, and it's kind 444 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: of stomach turning as well, and it's time to accept 445 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: the Facebook has become a kind of open sewer run 446 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: with a complete disregard for the user. It's constantly battering 447 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: them with sponsored and recommended content as a means of 448 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: keeping them on the site for longer. The longer a 449 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: user interacts with the site, the more advertising impressions they're shown, 450 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: and in turn they make more money for Facebook and Meta, 451 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: even if there's not really a service being provided. And 452 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 2: you may think keeping someone on the site that means 453 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 2: giving them something they want, right negative, it means getting 454 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 2: in the way of the thing they want, putting a 455 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: bunch of things, jump over little obstacle. Course, it's extremely 456 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 2: annoying and pisses me off daily. Now, kind of like 457 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: in the episodes that did at the end of twenty 458 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: twenty four, I'm going to walk you through very practically 459 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 2: the experience of going through Facebook. I want you to 460 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 2: have as close to a play by play as hu 461 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: mainly possible, because I want you to understand how fucked 462 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 2: up this website is. 463 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 3: Now. 464 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 2: Okay, you open your Facebook app and you immediately see 465 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 2: a pop up for stories, kind of the Instagram thing 466 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 2: where you click them through and there's an entire phone 467 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: screen filling video. But once you've watched some of those, 468 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 2: you scroll down. You see one post from someone you know, 469 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: then a giant ad that takes up a third of 470 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: your screen and a carousel of people you may know, 471 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: Then a post from a page you don't follow, then 472 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: a series of recommended reels that show a two second 473 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 2: clip on repeat of what you might see, but not 474 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 2: enough for you to actually get an idea if the 475 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: video will be good, so that you click through more 476 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: advertising impressions, then another ad, then three posts from a 477 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 2: page you don't follow, then another ad, and I find 478 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: my app is hitching as I scroll too fast. It's 479 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 2: kind of getting a bit clunky. So I think, what 480 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 2: would someone do if they needed help? Though, So I 481 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 2: decided to search for Facebook Support, which leads you to 482 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 2: a thin banner for Facebook Support the top. It's like 483 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 2: a maybe a half inch banner, and then below that 484 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: is this giant, quarter screen long sponsored post about Facebook 485 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: and I quote bringing your community together. And this, by 486 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 2: the way, has nothing to do with support, it's a 487 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 2: completely different thing. And then you get a selection of 488 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 2: groups blow them, the first of which is called Facebook Support, 489 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 2: with eighteen thousand members, including a support number one eight, 490 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighth four nine three ninety six that 491 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: does not work. The group is full of posts about 492 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 2: people having issues with Facebook, with one by an admin 493 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 2: called Oliver Green telling everyone that this group is where 494 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 2: they can and I quote discuss issues and provide assistance 495 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 2: and solutions to them. By the way, Olive Green's avatar 496 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 2: is actually a picture of political writer Oliver Darcy. It's 497 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 2: extremely fucking strange. 498 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: Anyway. 499 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 2: One post on there says, and I quote, please don't 500 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: respond to messages from my Facebook comma I was hacked, 501 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: with one responder called deca tech fix, asking when was 502 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 2: it hacked and asking them to message him now for 503 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 2: a quick recovery of an account that they appeared to 504 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: be posting with. Another where a user says someone hacked 505 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 2: my Facebook and changed all password is responded to by 506 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 2: another account called retech Man, who adds inbox me now 507 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: for help. Another where someone also says that they were hacked, 508 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 2: has another account James Miles, responding saying message me privately. 509 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 2: There are hundreds of interactions like these. Seriously, just go 510 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: on this site and look, go and look. Type in 511 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 2: Facebook support is completely insane. This site makes them so 512 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: much may billions and billions of dollars from this site. 513 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 2: It's so fucking strange. So another group is called account hacked, 514 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: and it has eighty five hundred members, but I'll add 515 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: it hasn't been updated since the end of twenty twenty three, 516 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 2: but it immediately hits you with a post that says, 517 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: and I quote message me for any hacking services. Facebook recovery, 518 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: Instagram recovery, lost Funds, recovery, I cloud bypass, et cetera, 519 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 2: with a few users responding, along with several other scammers 520 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 2: offering to help in the same way. There's another group 521 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 2: with sixty seven hundred members, this time called recover an 522 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 2: old Facebook Account you Can't look into, and it offers 523 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 2: yet another one eight hundred number that also did not work. 524 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 2: A post from December fifth, twenty twenty three, from a 525 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 2: user claiming that their account was compromised and their email 526 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 2: and password was changed has been responded to forty four times, 527 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 2: mostly by scammers attempting to offer account recovery services, but 528 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 2: a few times by other people experiencing the same problem. Elsewhere, 529 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 2: a group promising to literally send you money on PayPal 530 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: has twenty four thousand members and ten plus posts a day. 531 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 2: Another called PayPal Problem Solution, which reminds me of a 532 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 2: hive song offer similarly scammy services if you can't get 533 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 2: into PayPal. Another called cash App Vemo PayPal Zel Support 534 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 2: has fifty eight hundred members now. I also, as of 535 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 2: my research for this, joined another group and it was 536 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 2: called Facebook Support. It is just every day people going 537 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: on and on and on and on about how they 538 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: can't get into accounts and then being told hey, call 539 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 2: our toll free number. And it sucks. It sucks because 540 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 2: this took me no effort to find. There are hundreds 541 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 2: of people every day just going on this thing, begging 542 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 2: for help and then being aggressively scammed. Someone here saying 543 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 2: live chat, can I get someone from meta live Chat 544 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: day later help me recover my disabled account. Plus, someone 545 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 2: stole my pictures from Instagram and is using the scam 546 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: men through offers of sexual content and meetups. Facebook won't 547 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 2: delete the account because they use a different name than mine. 548 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: Someone hacked my Facebook account now he changed all its 549 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 2: details and name too. I think the meds and I 550 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: send the complaint in Facebook help center. They restrict the 551 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: account and gave me a link to recover it. When 552 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 2: I tried that and recorded a video selfie. It didn't work, 553 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: and every time when I tried to make the video, 554 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: every time has failed to load. Anyway, some of these 555 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: people don't have the best English. I can't speak of 556 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 2: a languages. Not going to judge them for that, But anyway, 557 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 2: I have a product idea for Meta is this idea 558 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: of deleting every one of these groups so that people 559 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: don't get fucking scammed. Important detail though, Now, last year 560 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 2: Meta came up with a bloody interesting new idea, this 561 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 2: new feature. Not a big product company, Meta, but they 562 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 2: came up with this idea. It's called Meta verification. Now 563 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 2: do you know what you get for your fifteen dollars 564 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 2: a month where you get a little check mark and 565 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 2: they know who you are and they say you're the 566 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: real person. 567 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 3: You know what? 568 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: You also get support, customer support. It's an actual kleptocracy. 569 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 2: It's an actual situation where they are making it so 570 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 2: that only those who pay will have help. Now there 571 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 2: may be an argument from some of you, You say, well, 572 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: that's just not particularly fucking fair, is it. These poor companies, 573 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 2: Poor Mark Zuckerberg, right, poor Mark Zuckerberg. He doesn't make 574 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 2: anything from the poor, these horrible little free pigs who 575 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 2: oinchored him and say, Mark, Mark, please don't let me 576 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: get scammed, don't let people steal from me. And Mark says, ah, 577 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: I I couldn't possibly make because I make only forty 578 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 2: dollars are usual. He makes forty fucking forty dollars and 579 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 2: sixty cents per user. This is more valuable than a 580 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 2: regular subscription, though of course fifteen bucks a month would 581 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: be making more than that, But nevertheless, that's an insanely 582 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 2: large amount of money. That's an insanely large amount of 583 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 2: money for a service that is decaying and being decayed 584 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: by a lack of responsibility in stewardship from the fucking 585 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: burke who runs it and the scumbags who run it 586 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: with him. And this is what Facebook is, by the way, 587 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: It's just this whole of sponsored content and outright scams, 588 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: and Meta is not a steward of this product. It's 589 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 2: been fucking awful for years. They've been making it worse 590 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 2: to grow revenue, but also on top of that, they've 591 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: not been trying to keep it anything like a reliable product, 592 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: like a good product. It's like if you got on 593 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: the bus and one of the wheels fucking fell off 594 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: sometimes and they went, well, you know that happens with buses. 595 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 2: That just happens. Sometimes you sit on a bench in 596 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: a park and it just explodes, splinters all up in 597 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 2: your ass. Yeah, that's just what benches do. Mate, the 598 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 2: bench was free, you fucking ass whole. It's so annoying, 599 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: and I really must repeat myself that it's been like 600 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 2: this for years. Meta's been gradually and aggressively making the 601 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 2: experience worse, and they've just let this hellhole kind of decay. 602 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 2: It really is decay. That's the word I keep coming 603 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 2: back to because it sucks. 604 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 3: And some of you. 605 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 2: I've heard from a lot of you who say, oh, 606 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: I just don't use it. I just don't use it. 607 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: Even if you don't use this, even if Meta is 608 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: something you have cut out of your life, there is 609 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: a real consequence to a social network being used by 610 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: billions of people. That is this unregulated digital ecological disaster. 611 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 2: It's this open wound in the side of the Internet 612 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 2: where scammers and spammers the light in tricking and swindling 613 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: people without any fear of repercussions from Meta, and honestly, 614 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: they stop giving a shit years ago. Now, if I 615 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: get a comment from Meta about this, and by the way, 616 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 2: if you're listening from Meta, put Mark on my show. 617 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 2: Otherwise I don't want to fucking hear from you. I 618 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 2: don't care. I'm not interested. Actually, give me boss Worth, 619 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 2: give me Buzz. I'd love to have a chat with Buzz. 620 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: You and me, Buzz, Let's chat it up. But anyway, 621 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 2: I'm sure their comment would be, where we do stop scammers, Well, 622 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 2: you don't really stop them all. And indeed, if I'm 623 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: the one, one, one surly dipshit with the microphone that 624 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 2: can find this hive of scammers with really no effort, 625 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 2: why don't you have any automation to do this? Why 626 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,479 Speaker 2: don't you have something to stop that? And the answer 627 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 2: is Meta doesn't care. Meta does not care. They stopped 628 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 2: giving a shit a while ago. And it's revisionist history 629 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: to pretend that Mark Zuckerberg has suddenly chose to take 630 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 2: the guardrails off. It's insane how many people I'm reading 631 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 2: who are acting as if this is new. But I 632 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: need you to realize a Meta all things are justified undergrowth, 633 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 2: like making the platform harder to navigate so that users 634 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 2: spend more time trying to find the things they actually 635 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: want to see, or allowing giant groups of scammers and 636 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 2: spammers to flourish, so there's always new content for people 637 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 2: to get lost in, even if it sucks or it's 638 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 2: harmful or it hurts them. And you can hear how 639 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 2: much distaste I have for all of this. 640 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 3: But but it's me. I wouldn't be done after just one. 641 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 2: Now this is a two parter, and in the next episode, 642 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 2: I'm going to get into how Zuckerberg got away with 643 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 2: all of this, and he did so by taking advantage 644 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 2: of members of the media that were either asleep at 645 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: the wheel, hamstrung by their editorial side, or actually just 646 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,719 Speaker 2: willing to help run air cover for Mark Zuckerberg. And 647 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: then once I've done that, I want to explain what 648 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 2: the actual consequences are, because they're not great. None of 649 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 2: this is great. But I don't want to leave you 650 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: completely depressed. Right now, you're probably you're seeing the inauguration 651 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: feeling pretty dark. I really do mean hold those closes 652 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 2: to you closer. I do mean be a little bit 653 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 2: more loving with the people around you. Big theme of 654 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: CES was love and companionship and solidarity with your fellow 655 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 2: human beings. Call your friends, Text your friends, tell me 656 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 2: you love them. Any of your friends whore like why 657 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 2: he's telling me, I love it, you love me. That's 658 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 2: a that in and of itself, is the symptom of 659 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 2: a society that has lost love. Everything feels really fucking dark. 660 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,959 Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong, but you're still an autonomous human being. 661 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 2: You're still capable of talking to the people around you. 662 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 2: To quote ned Bta won't say write your congressman. I 663 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,399 Speaker 2: don't know what I would tell you to tell them, 664 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 2: but I will tell you this. The people around you 665 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 2: need you. The people around you love you, and if 666 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 2: they don't, don't talk to them. But show more love 667 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 2: to those around you, Show more love to everything, and 668 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 2: put more love into everything you do. 669 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,919 Speaker 3: And you'll hear the next episode soon. 670 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 2: He'll only be a few days, and I think you're going. 671 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 3: To really like it. But I love you all. 672 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and 673 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You 674 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 2: can check out more of his music and audio projects 675 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 2: at Matasowski dot com, M A T T O s 676 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 2: O W s ki dot com. You can email me 677 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 2: at easy at better Offline dot com or visit better 678 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 2: Offline dot com to find more podcast links and of 679 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 2: course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to 680 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 2: chat dot Where's Youreed dot at to visit the discord, 681 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 2: and go to our slash Better Offline to check out 682 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 2: our reddit. Thank you so much for listening. 683 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For 684 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia 685 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 686 00:35:47,040 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. School