WEBVTT - Part One: Lead Belly: How a Man Named Huddie Ledbetter Beat Everyone Who Tried to Keep Him Down

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<v Speaker 1>Cools Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to Cool People. Did Cool Stuff? Your

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<v Speaker 2>weekly reminder that people do really fucking cool stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>It's in the title of the show.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy and my guest today man,

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<v Speaker 2>my returning guest. One of the first guests I've ever

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<v Speaker 2>had on this show is Jason Petty aka prop aka Propaganda.

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, tell me something good. Yeah, yeah, come on, tell

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<v Speaker 4>me that you love me. Kill Joy.

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<v Speaker 1>I love you.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I love you, Sophia.

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<v Speaker 2>I am so excited. I changed topics yesterday. I have

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<v Speaker 2>like basically not slept. I'm kind of manic right now

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<v Speaker 2>because I changed topics about thirty six hours ago, and

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<v Speaker 2>I read an entire history book as well as a

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<v Speaker 2>whole bunch of other texts in order to do this.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh oh, but it's gonna be worth it. I believe it. Manna.

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<v Speaker 4>You're gonna tell me about some sort of horrible atrocity

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<v Speaker 4>that is gonna get me so sad, And then there's

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<v Speaker 4>gonna be a turn, because there's gonna be a really

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<v Speaker 4>dope person that's gonna pop in and lead us to freedom.

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<v Speaker 2>Honestly, yeah, this was gonna happen. Yeah, And I also

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<v Speaker 2>figured it's been a minute since I've had a musician

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<v Speaker 2>as a guest, and so I thought I'd do an

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<v Speaker 2>episode about music. Oh man, Originally, originally I was gonna

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<v Speaker 2>cover this man, Alan Lomax. Have you ever heard of

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<v Speaker 2>Alan Lomax?

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<v Speaker 3>No, help me out.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, he is the guy who recorded folk musicians.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a white guy who went down and recorded folk musicians,

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<v Speaker 2>especially black musicians in the South. And he's like kind

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<v Speaker 2>of caused the folk revival and did all the shit,

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<v Speaker 2>and like rock and roll exists because of Alan Lomax,

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<v Speaker 2>according to various people. Okay, but along the way, I

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<v Speaker 2>was realizing I was covering about how when he was

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<v Speaker 2>seventeen and he was with his dad, he went and

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<v Speaker 2>recorded a prisoner went by the name of Led Belly.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, Led Belly is a different story, and.

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<v Speaker 2>That is the better story. So this week, yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>hard covering Honey Ledbetter.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm a little I'm a little familiar with this one. Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>I thought you might be. Yeah, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Led Belly is the king of the twelve string guitar

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<v Speaker 2>and one of the most influential musicians in American history yep,

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<v Speaker 2>and also one of the most maligned people in American history,

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<v Speaker 2>like the way his story is told. A bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>white people did a lot of fucking myth making about him. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were not polite.

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<v Speaker 3>When they did it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I forgot to introduce with Sophie's here. Hey Sophie,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm here.

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<v Speaker 3>Return of.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm here, I'm here.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited to do this, Like I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>this is like first year cool We blue did cool stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Man, almost uncomplicated. He is a complicated man, but

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<v Speaker 2>less complicated. I'm like uncomplicating him from history instead of

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<v Speaker 2>more complicating than from history.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what's crazy is first year of cool people.

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<v Speaker 1>You didn't have a dog. Rop didn't have a dog,

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<v Speaker 1>and I only had one dog.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, I had a puppy. I had a tiny barkie puppy.

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<v Speaker 2>First year, I.

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<v Speaker 5>Definitely didn't have a Okay, you did not have your

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<v Speaker 5>pug and I did not have Truman.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>True.

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<v Speaker 2>There is twice as many dogs in this room as

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<v Speaker 2>there was when we started.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm saying. The stats are great.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a glow up. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>What I love about what you're about to do is

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<v Speaker 4>one of the things that is infuriating is that.

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<v Speaker 3>The word infuriating.

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<v Speaker 4>Infuriating makes me furious is when there's this myth making. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 4>all stories have a perspective and an agenda, like you're

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<v Speaker 4>trying to accomplish something, and when it happens in history,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, the obvious ones are like, well, either trying

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<v Speaker 4>to usurp or present power. You know, yeah, totally right.

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<v Speaker 4>But then the real story be so much more interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>And if you just tell the real story, it's so

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<v Speaker 4>much more compelling than the shit you ate up. And

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<v Speaker 4>and oftentimes you making it up makes it so obvious

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<v Speaker 4>what Joe problem was. And now you look silly. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, especially in music. But it's just like you

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<v Speaker 4>just you're white supremacists and you just want to believe

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<v Speaker 4>that everything you make is better, but you stole it all.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what's what's wild about this story is that they

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<v Speaker 2>are blatant about the theft. If you go back far enough,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like when early colonists came to white the colonists

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<v Speaker 2>came to North America and we're like, well, of course

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<v Speaker 2>this used to be yours, but it's mine now I

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<v Speaker 2>took it from you. That's what people did to this man.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes today, why submitted for the tap in episode, we're

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<v Speaker 4>talking about the Hanna Nashoni and Red Jackets letter, and

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<v Speaker 4>Benjamin Franklin goes, Yeah, their democracy is better than ours.

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<v Speaker 4>We should model at democracy after theirs. They figured out

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<v Speaker 4>how to have a representative government.

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<v Speaker 3>We should just do what they did.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you, I wish we had, or even better, I

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<v Speaker 2>wish people just fucking joined them. Yeah, that's what he

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<v Speaker 2>left them in charge. We should have just joined him.

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<v Speaker 3>They figured it out. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so Huddy led better because he actually his stage

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<v Speaker 2>name was Led Belly with a space in it, but

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<v Speaker 2>he he preferred going by Huddy, and sometimes his friends

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<v Speaker 2>would call him Led, but his name wasn't Led Belly,

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<v Speaker 2>that was his stage name. His story gets into so

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<v Speaker 2>much shit and specifically, I'm sure there's versions of this

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<v Speaker 2>that have happened before, but this is the earliest I

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<v Speaker 2>have read about the making and methodologizing of the scary black.

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<v Speaker 3>Man an American culture.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and some of the like early incredible depths of

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<v Speaker 2>appropriation of black music. One that I can tie into

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<v Speaker 2>both colonization and slavery more directly than I realized. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I can basically say, like this is how a sharecropper

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<v Speaker 2>got share cropped on music. Yes, yes, yes.

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<v Speaker 4>Knowing how this story ends makes me go, yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 4>an incredible Yeah, it's an incredible analysis.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I'm really excited this story has. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he dies at sixty, right, but he fucking he makes it,

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<v Speaker 2>and he makes it through the worst shit, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And I could be overly polite and say mainstream culture

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<v Speaker 2>has always been downstream of Black American culture, but in

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<v Speaker 2>Huddy's case, the kid of a Confederate soldier is going

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<v Speaker 2>to hire him without paying him and use him to

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<v Speaker 2>try and get copyright on as many black songs as possible,

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<v Speaker 2>especially songs written by prisoners who are being essentially enslaved

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<v Speaker 2>because during after Reconstruction with the Jim Crow laws, they

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<v Speaker 2>were like, how do we make black men keep working

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<v Speaker 2>for us for free?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>And so I'm gonna go with my colonization metaphor, even

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<v Speaker 2>though the like downstream of black culture is also.

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<v Speaker 3>Part of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, but I want to start. Do you know

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<v Speaker 2>a Huddy Ledbetter as the first person we have a

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<v Speaker 2>recording of saying explicitly and directly stay woke.

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<v Speaker 4>No, I knew it was like great grandfather's slaying, Like

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<v Speaker 4>my great grandfather said it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's old as fun.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so old. But I didn't know he was the

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<v Speaker 3>first one. That's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna do a whole Okay, we're gonna start with

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<v Speaker 2>stay woke because this is a Yes, this is my

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<v Speaker 2>first deep dive, even before we get to the rest

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<v Speaker 2>of it. All right, Marcus Garvey returning character of the

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<v Speaker 2>pod founder of Pan Africanism and the red, black.

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<v Speaker 3>And Green flag.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, complicated figure from a lot of people's point of view,

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<v Speaker 2>but for sure, really fucking interesting. And I eineteen twenty

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<v Speaker 2>three he wrote a book of aphorisms. He was like,

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<v Speaker 2>these are some sayings I like, and one of them

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<v Speaker 2>was wake up Ethiopia, wake Up Africa. And so that's

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<v Speaker 2>the oldest that people point to about like this idea of.

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<v Speaker 3>That's where I point out is market Yeah, totally and

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<v Speaker 3>that phrasing it clearly means be woke. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>But in nineteen thirty eight Led Belly said it for

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<v Speaker 2>the first time on a recording and he said he's

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the Scottsboro Boys. When we talked about that

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<v Speaker 2>in a second, he said, quote, I advise everybody be

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<v Speaker 2>a little careful best, stay woke, keep their eyes open.

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<v Speaker 3>Dang, I didn't know him.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I just don't remember great Grant granting him. You

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<v Speaker 4>got to you gotta stay woke, young brother, you gotta

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<v Speaker 4>stay woke. Yeah, hey, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's so funny because it's like it's now the

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<v Speaker 2>fucking culture Warship one hundred years later.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you know, literally redefined and used as a weapon

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<v Speaker 4>against us so fresh. We should have never like conceited

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<v Speaker 4>the definition. And now this is where we are.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, any.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, totally and and honestly, I frankly think a

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<v Speaker 2>big part of that is because like white, well meaning

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<v Speaker 2>lefty people started using it one ironically, Like I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's part of how it broke containment.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm not I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm actually gonna talk about how that happened in the

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<v Speaker 2>sixties in a second, okay, but first the Scottsboro Boys.

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<v Speaker 2>I hate to start off with this, just like, fucking

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<v Speaker 2>here's some racist shit that happened. Because this is what

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<v Speaker 2>Ledbetter was talking about. I think it's useful framing, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when we're going to talk about what happened to Ledbetter

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<v Speaker 2>was that he got called basically like the scary, violent,

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<v Speaker 2>savage black man who happens to be really good at music. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, the Scottsboro Boys. Some people call it

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<v Speaker 2>the case the lead of the civil rights movement. You

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<v Speaker 2>could say that about a lot of cases, because there

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<v Speaker 2>was a lot of things yas shit. Yeah, And it

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<v Speaker 2>started with racist hobos and I didn't know that part.

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<v Speaker 2>Nineteen thirty one is kind of the peak hobo era.

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<v Speaker 2>In the Great Depression, people rode freight trains around illegally

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<v Speaker 2>trying to find jobs. My granddad was a hobo in

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteen thirties. It's March nineteen thirty one, and it's Alabama,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's a box car with like twenty something people

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<v Speaker 2>in it. Nine of them were black teenagers aged thirteen

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<v Speaker 2>to nineteen, and some white boys picked a fight with

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<v Speaker 2>the black kids and lost.

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<v Speaker 3>They lost that fight. They lost. They were run out

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<v Speaker 3>of the box car.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you're a fucking hobo, you're not supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>fucking lose a fight and then go run off and

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<v Speaker 2>tell the fucking cops, the police. Yeah, fuck you pick

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<v Speaker 2>a side, are you crime or not?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>They ran out of the box car, went off to

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<v Speaker 2>tell the cops, and an angry mob was waiting for

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<v Speaker 2>the train. At the next stop, teens were arrested for assault.

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<v Speaker 2>But there were two white women in the box car

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<v Speaker 2>two and they were also hoboeing looking for work, so

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<v Speaker 2>presumably sex work. And the two were going to get

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<v Speaker 2>arrested and charged with vagrancy and like solicitation and sex

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<v Speaker 2>crime shit, And they were like, oh, no, those black

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<v Speaker 2>teenagers absolutely raped us, that's what happened. Yeah, And they

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<v Speaker 2>were rushed off to the doctor who found no evidence

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<v Speaker 2>that that happened, just absolutely none. The only evidence in

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<v Speaker 2>this case was these two women. That's the only evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>All but the youngest of the black teens was sentenced

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<v Speaker 2>to death. The all white jury actually wanted to sence

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<v Speaker 2>the thirteen year old to death, but the judge was

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<v Speaker 2>a softy and only wanted to put everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>Else to death.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this became a national issue. The International Labor Defense,

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<v Speaker 2>which was the legal wing of the American Communist Party,

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<v Speaker 2>teamed up with the NAACP to fight for their defense.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's kind of a thing that doesn't get talked

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<v Speaker 2>about that a lot of the early Basically, the NAACP

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<v Speaker 2>and like the Communist Party were like two of the

0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:07.880
<v Speaker 2>biggest organizations in.

0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:08.840
<v Speaker 3>The twenties and thirties.

0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fighting for like what later became the civil rights movement.

0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:18.920
<v Speaker 2>And eventually the convictions were overturned, but not before some

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.480
<v Speaker 2>of these people were sentenced four different times. Like they

0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.160
<v Speaker 2>kept getting new trials and they kept being like, well,

0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 2>you got a new trial, but we still want to

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:27.960
<v Speaker 2>kill these kids.

0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:29.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:32.640
<v Speaker 2>They were imprisoned for decades, and even when their rape

0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.000
<v Speaker 2>charges would get overturned in the end, they'd still be

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.200
<v Speaker 2>in prison for like fighting a bailift during all the bullshit.

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.680
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't until fucking twenty thirteen that they were posthumorously pardoned.

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Man, I got a lot of thoughts, but yeah, yeah,

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:46.560
<v Speaker 3>we have these.

0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.960
<v Speaker 4>Flashpoints in culture and then you get invited to like

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:58.240
<v Speaker 4>help their leadership team of some organization, company, religious parachurch, whatever.

0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:02.880
<v Speaker 3>Process and like get woke if you will. Yeah, and

0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.480
<v Speaker 3>then you're like, I don't even know where.

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:10.960
<v Speaker 4>To start, because just throw a rock in any decade

0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:16.319
<v Speaker 4>and there's this and then you say, okay, you asked

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.520
<v Speaker 4>me a question like well, why don't you just call

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:20.079
<v Speaker 4>the police?

0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.520
<v Speaker 3>Why don't you trust the justice system, And it's like.

0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, pattern recognition. Yeah, because of pattern.

0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.840
<v Speaker 4>Pattern recognition, I saw I learned, and some I learned

0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 4>in therapy with with like couple's therapy, which is like yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 4>your your partner doesn't trust your emotions or your words,

0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:39.440
<v Speaker 4>they trust your patterns.

0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally.

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:46.400
<v Speaker 4>Until you change the patterns, the nervous system isn't going

0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:49.960
<v Speaker 4>you know what I'm saying, So like it's it's it's

0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 4>pattern I mean, because I got jumped, we dog walk

0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 4>these dudes who attacked us. Yeah, and and these white

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 4>white women saw it. Yeah, white women, Yes, you saw it.

0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.520
<v Speaker 4>So why you think we won't trust white women. I'm like, well, you.

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Saw this, Yeah, you saw all that happen.

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 3>You saw all this happen.

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:15.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 4>And the judge said, I think these little boys is innocent.

0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what's going on.

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.880
<v Speaker 4>Oh but you gotta I gotta wait, I gotta go back,

0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 4>Like okay, so but I'm still you you found me

0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 4>innocent multiple times.

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.120
<v Speaker 2>How am I still in jail?

0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I don't understand how I'm still in jail.

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well it's because you punched someone while you were

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 2>being put in a cage for something you didn't do.

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 2>So yes, so excuse me, yeah.

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 3>For not trusting the system?

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, and so when fucking Honey Ledbetter in

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty eight, he says, stay woke. It means keep

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 2>your fucking wits about you. Remember that you live in

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.120
<v Speaker 2>a fucking racist society, and remember that they're fucking after you. Yes,

0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 2>and he said it as one of the most important

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 2>musicians of his era. By the time, he said nineteen

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 2>thirty eight, he is one of the most important musicians. Yeah,

0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.560
<v Speaker 2>and he had experienced racism in the South, but also

0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 2>from the very fucking white people who are ostensibly helping

0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.800
<v Speaker 2>and build his career. Yeah, but I want to keep

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 2>tracing this woke thing just because it's a fascinating please

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 2>do and the.

0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.760
<v Speaker 4>Thing is too like I like, please don't use your

0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.280
<v Speaker 4>train of thought because it's so important. But like specifically

0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 4>as a musician and as myself as a black musician,

0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 4>I mean up until very recently, and I would even

0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 4>argue even currently, like all black music is political. Yeah,

0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 4>like it's it's it's all a protest, even if it's

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 4>just for fun.

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 3>You know what I'm saying, Like that the fun is

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 3>a protest. Yeah, you know.

0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.840
<v Speaker 4>Like so it's just like our tradition is like the

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.000
<v Speaker 4>hip hop it's from the same stream that we're talking

0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 4>about right now. It's like, yeah, absolutely, it's all political, like, yeah,

0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't know what to tell you anyway, go on, yeah, well.

0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.000
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean even like I don't want to like

0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.600
<v Speaker 2>go hard defending Marcus Garvey. Right, But one of the

0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.600
<v Speaker 2>reasons that Marcus Garvey, because sometimes I guess a lot

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 2>of shit is is I'm going to oversimplify things, get

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.320
<v Speaker 2>something's wrong. He was more of a proponent of black

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.680
<v Speaker 2>capitalism than most of the people by the late sixties

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>who are interested in black power.

0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, But trying to build wealth looks really fucking different

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.400
<v Speaker 2>when you're having your wealth systematically stripped away.

0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 3>From you every time you get it.

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, everything is either reinforcing power structures, are trying to

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 2>build new ones, you know.

0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.680
<v Speaker 4>Totally, and then what are you going to do? Like

0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.160
<v Speaker 4>you like, okay, so we're going to go back to Africa.

0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 4>You mean, the second largest land mass on the planet.

0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 3>What part are you from? I don't know, it was

0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:41.720
<v Speaker 3>part of you from?

0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 4>I think my ancestors was from these four different tribes.

0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.600
<v Speaker 4>Now that's a nation. Somebody is because the people drew

0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:50.040
<v Speaker 4>a line.

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:51.080
<v Speaker 3>Nobody drew a line.

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:54.040
<v Speaker 4>So like, I think, I don't know when I left,

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 4>we weren't Nigerian.

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Because there was no sustinct as Nigeria.

0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, totally, we were Igbo. And now like, so

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.880
<v Speaker 4>where are we going to go? I don't know, Yeah,

0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.240
<v Speaker 4>go to I'll hear you like, yeah, let's go there.

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So the word hipster kind of originally means white

0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.600
<v Speaker 2>person trying to be black. Okay, in the middle of

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the twentieth century, that's how it was being used.

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:19.720
<v Speaker 3>Basically, I didn't know that.

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a fuck. I like cited this properly. In

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.119
<v Speaker 2>episode like two years ago, a black author from I

0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 2>think the nineteen forties was talking about the BEATNICKX was

0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 2>talking about this.

0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 3>Either way, that's dope.

0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.960
<v Speaker 2>And so the word hippie comes from that, right, It

0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:35.840
<v Speaker 2>comes from people who are like, like, white people are

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.040
<v Speaker 2>trying to be cool because like, yeah, black people are cool.

0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you knew that.

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure that no one's ever put that on you. Yeah,

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't put that on you before. Yeah.

0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Although in their defense, most people we call hippies didn't

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 2>call themselves hippies.

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 3>They called themselves freaks.

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.119
<v Speaker 2>But black authors were very aware of how white people

0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 2>were copying their style and their language in order to

0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:55.920
<v Speaker 2>be hip.

0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:56.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.159
<v Speaker 2>So there's this piece from nineteen sixty two in New

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.400
<v Speaker 2>York Times Max magazine from a black author named William

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Mellon Kelly about appropriation. Doesn't use that word. It's about appropriation,

0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:11.879
<v Speaker 2>and it's called if you're woke, you dig it, And

0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:15.960
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't bother saying what woke means in this piece

0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.480
<v Speaker 2>that's called that, it just assumed that the audience is

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.000
<v Speaker 2>familiar with woke as black slang.

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.200
<v Speaker 3>You absolutely know what we mean, Yeah.

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.760
<v Speaker 2>That white people are starting to use. And in it

0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.520
<v Speaker 2>he conjectures that a lot of black slang started with

0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.399
<v Speaker 2>slaves speaking code to confuse the white slavers. He says, quote,

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 2>my grandmother told me that ofe, a word for white man,

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 2>was foe in pig Latin.

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah probably, Yeah, like, no, I don't have another argument,

0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, Yeah, totally.

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.159
<v Speaker 2>It also gets into how black use of the Southern

0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.600
<v Speaker 2>accent survived the Great migration of black people leaving the

0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.880
<v Speaker 2>South in part to be able to maintain a cultural

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 2>identity separate from whiteness when they went places. And it

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.159
<v Speaker 2>talks about code switching, doesn't use the word code switching,

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 2>but it like talks about code switching is the thing

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 2>I've read about that. Okay, But there's one piece in there,

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.720
<v Speaker 2>one bit of slang or a verbal mannerism. I guess

0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.159
<v Speaker 2>that I had no idea came from black culture. I

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 2>will never be surprised when something comes from black culture.

0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.480
<v Speaker 2>But that's one I didn't know. Do you know the

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.960
<v Speaker 2>word using using the word like it's like punctuation.

0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, from black people?

0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:19.640
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 3>Oh god, see I didn't know that either.

0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:23.200
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 3>No, I was goa pulls.

0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 4>I got a few I could pull out of, like

0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.919
<v Speaker 4>out the tank, like like yeah, well, everybody puts your

0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 4>hands together. That's from Harlem Renaissance. That's shit black people.

0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.439
<v Speaker 4>That's our slang with hands together. But yeah, I didn't know,

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:38.000
<v Speaker 4>like what was one of them?

0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:38.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.240
<v Speaker 2>The uh the example he uses two white women taught

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.240
<v Speaker 2>walking out of the like Boston Symphony, and one of

0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:51.200
<v Speaker 2>them says to the other, wasn't it like exhilarating nineteen

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 2>sixty two? Everybody?

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Wow?

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh man, these jab percys.

0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, so woke hit a more wide audience, including

0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 2>a wider black audience, as I understand from what I've

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.560
<v Speaker 2>read in the late aunts and early teens. In two

0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.119
<v Speaker 2>thousand and eight, Erica Badu saying I'd stay woke in

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 2>the song Master Teacher.

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:12.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.879
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twelve, she tweeted stay Woke in support of

0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:16.879
<v Speaker 2>the band Pussy Riot from Russia.

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:17.240
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Then it got hashtagged and response to the murder of

0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.240
<v Speaker 2>Trayvon Martin and Florida yep. Then when cops and ferguson

0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Missouri murdered Michael Brown in twenty fourteen, became associated with

0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>the Black Lives Matter movement, and then it became a

0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.960
<v Speaker 2>right wing boogey man, especially after the twenty twenty Uprising.

0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.600
<v Speaker 4>But I would even say, even to your point, even

0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.000
<v Speaker 4>to that, like if you woke, you could dig it. Yeah,

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 4>is this understanding that we already knew it? Admitt Yeah.

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 4>So even from that first song of Erica singing that, right,

0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.960
<v Speaker 4>we all thought of our dads. Yeah, Like she's like,

0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:52.920
<v Speaker 4>she's talking the way our dad's talked.

0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:57.080
<v Speaker 3>So she was already referencing our old hits. Yeah. So

0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.639
<v Speaker 3>we just thought as like, oh, yeah, you married, you

0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:01.000
<v Speaker 3>bring them back.

0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's like you're bringing it back.

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.000
<v Speaker 4>So we was all ready for us a reclaiming of

0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:07.520
<v Speaker 4>sixties black slang.

0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it already wasn't We didn't invent it.

0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.040
<v Speaker 4>We knew we didn't invent this phrase, right, right, so

0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.240
<v Speaker 4>like we knew we were again Yeah, we were referencing

0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 4>our grandparents.

0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Well do you know what our grandparents also

0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>had to deal with in the middle of their audio entertainment,

0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean got to got to deal with in the

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>middle of their audio entertainment advertisers.

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 3>All right, much like these ones.

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:49.199
<v Speaker 2>And we're back, all right. And so the first quote

0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.960
<v Speaker 2>stay woke we have on a recording is the blue

0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 2>singer named led Belly you preferred to go by Hoddy

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:55.879
<v Speaker 2>or sometimes just lead.

0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.879
<v Speaker 3>And let's talk about him. Let's talk about him, honey.

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Led Better was born probably on January twentieth, eighteen eighty nine.

0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.119
<v Speaker 2>You get back into the nineteenth century of poor folks,

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:07.400
<v Speaker 2>especially poor folks of color.

0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, good, look, you do your best. Yeah, it's also

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.040
<v Speaker 4>a survival tactic. Side note, Oh, honestly, that makes sense. Yeah,

0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.560
<v Speaker 4>it's a survival tactic to be like No I was No.

0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.520
<v Speaker 4>I was born in eighteen twenty six in Negative Louisiana.

0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:23.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, yes, making up stuff yet.

0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:26.160
<v Speaker 2>No, No, honestly, that makes a lot of sense because

0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:28.919
<v Speaker 2>he's later at some point gonna he's gonna break out

0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:30.440
<v Speaker 2>of prison and change his name, which.

0:22:30.240 --> 0:22:30.760
<v Speaker 3>Is pretty cool.

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah you could do that. Yeah, Yeah, You're just gonna

0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:35.760
<v Speaker 2>make some shit up when you do that, you know.

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.919
<v Speaker 2>And eighteen eighty nine is a rough time to be

0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:45.240
<v Speaker 2>born black in Louisiana. Woo reconstruction is firmly over, and

0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.000
<v Speaker 2>the air of Jim Crow has begun.

0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.200
<v Speaker 2>His parents were Wesley Ledbetter Junior from North Carolina and

0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Sally Pooh led Better from Louisiana. They'd both been born

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.600
<v Speaker 2>into slavery and wound up sharecroppers as kids, and after

0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Hodey was born, they adopted a girl named Australia whose

0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 2>parents had died, and I think they had more kids

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:09.119
<v Speaker 2>besides this as well. Nineteenth century names, especially, honestly, names

0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.679
<v Speaker 2>from black culture will be like, yeah, just not names

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:13.399
<v Speaker 2>you here.

0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:15.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah Australia. Okay, that's pretty crazy.

0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.480
<v Speaker 4>I was like, yeah, yeah, never thought about a name

0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.119
<v Speaker 4>and a child Australia.

0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:27.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And his parents they they bootstrapped themselves. I know,

0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 2>the whole phrase bootstrap, like picking yourself up by your bootstraps.

0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:32.239
<v Speaker 2>The whole point is that that's impossible. Yeah, you know,

0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.879
<v Speaker 2>but his parents did about as well as anyone in

0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:39.600
<v Speaker 2>their position could. Yeah, and they did that with help

0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>of infrastructure built by and for black people about getting.

0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 4>Land, yeah, because reconstruction was working. Yeah, like that was

0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:50.320
<v Speaker 4>the it was actually working.

0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:51.919
<v Speaker 3>So yeah. Yeah.

0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:54.800
<v Speaker 2>I sometimes get really really upset when I think about,

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.719
<v Speaker 2>like we like almost I'm sure it wouldn't have been perfect.

0:23:59.160 --> 0:24:01.480
<v Speaker 2>We almost had as racial America, Like.

0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 4>We kind of solved it, like we accidentally solved the problem.

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, and then people realized that they like could

0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:14.440
<v Speaker 2>just break the law in order to fucking oppress black

0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.560
<v Speaker 2>people and know, yeah, oh city worked.

0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:19.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah you better. We gotta put the genie back into

0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 3>bottle guys.

0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah. Oh and that's what happens to his parents too, unfortunately,

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Like but like all right, we'll get to that.

0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:26.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah.

0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:29.520
<v Speaker 2>So a black man that they knew a family friend

0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:31.920
<v Speaker 2>had just moved to Texas and bought thousands of acres.

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.080
<v Speaker 2>The historian I read didn't know where the hell that

0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:39.199
<v Speaker 2>person got the money. My guess just from doing the

0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:42.520
<v Speaker 2>show too much around that time, and in that part

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 2>of Texas, like the Texas Louisiana kind of area, The

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Colored Farmers Alliance was a really powerful movement that specifically

0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:53.399
<v Speaker 2>existed to get land into black people's hands by like

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:57.879
<v Speaker 2>loaning them money right and doing it non exploitatively.

0:24:57.920 --> 0:24:59.600
<v Speaker 3>And it was like a black lead movement.

0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.399
<v Speaker 2>That's my best guess about where this person might have

0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:06.280
<v Speaker 2>gotten the money, and that farmer immediately now it was

0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:07.920
<v Speaker 2>thousands of acres isn't going to work?

0:25:07.920 --> 0:25:08.720
<v Speaker 3>Thousands of acres?

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, immediately let the leadbetters come and share crop for him,

0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.160
<v Speaker 2>but without ripping them off, because part of the reason

0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:16.919
<v Speaker 2>the sharecropping system was so fucked up is it was

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:20.439
<v Speaker 2>just basically like how exploitative can we make these contracts?

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:21.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? You know.

0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 2>And so it helps his parents buy sixty eight and

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 2>a half acres of land on a seven year loan.

0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:30.439
<v Speaker 2>They finished paying it off seven years and they were

0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:32.440
<v Speaker 2>able to build themselves a decent life.

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:32.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:34.680
<v Speaker 2>No, that's way shorter an average mortgage.

0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:34.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:37.760
<v Speaker 3>I was like, must be nice. Yeah, like seven years

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:38.760
<v Speaker 3>were okay?

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah for sixty eight and a half acres.

0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:43.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, my kid's a second grader. I paid off the house.

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:44.120
<v Speaker 3>It's great.

0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:47.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, totally. They're like, all right, now we fucking

0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:48.840
<v Speaker 2>raised most of our own food, and they live somewhere

0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:50.679
<v Speaker 2>where there's like no white people in twenty miles and

0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:54.680
<v Speaker 2>like MT's be nice. Yeah, now he ledbetter, had a

0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:58.240
<v Speaker 2>nice childhood by what he says, like they worked hard

0:25:58.280 --> 0:25:58.720
<v Speaker 2>as fuck.

0:25:58.760 --> 0:25:59.520
<v Speaker 3>His parents were.

0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Waking up at one or two in the morning to

0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:04.040
<v Speaker 2>clear land for farming, but they lived twenty miles from

0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:05.720
<v Speaker 2>the nearest white people. They got to do their own

0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:07.840
<v Speaker 2>thing with a bunch of other black families in the region,

0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:11.200
<v Speaker 2>and they rode five miles to get the mail once

0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:14.679
<v Speaker 2>a week, and they read the newspaper. When his father

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:16.800
<v Speaker 2>had been married, he hadn't been able to sign his

0:26:16.840 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 2>own name. He did an ex and was like witnessed

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:22.119
<v Speaker 2>by somebody, you know. But now he read everything that

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:25.240
<v Speaker 2>he could, and the local shopkeeper kept the whole week's

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:27.800
<v Speaker 2>worth of papers for him. So cool, so when he

0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:29.240
<v Speaker 2>would show up, he'd be like, all right, I gotta

0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:30.600
<v Speaker 2>read everything, gotta know everything.

0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:31.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:34.399
<v Speaker 2>The family would fish in the lake, play music on

0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:38.680
<v Speaker 2>the shore, and just lived fucking decent lives despite poverty.

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:39.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Two of his uncles were somewhat renowned musicians in the area.

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.080
<v Speaker 2>What were called songsters, which is a word I hadn't

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:48.959
<v Speaker 2>run across before. Yeah, these are the local folks who

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 2>could entertain people. Yeah, no recordings, You're like, who can

0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:56.280
<v Speaker 2>plays a nice songs? Two songsters in the family, Yeah,

0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:01.359
<v Speaker 2>sing a song, singing man Yeah yeah. And later in

0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:03.879
<v Speaker 2>life people are going to play up just basically like

0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:05.879
<v Speaker 2>this is not the word they used, but they just

0:27:05.880 --> 0:27:09.159
<v Speaker 2>played up how gangster led belly was right. They're like

0:27:09.200 --> 0:27:11.640
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing was basically like they're accusing of being

0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.679
<v Speaker 2>of him at being gangster rap before that was a thing. Yeah,

0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:19.600
<v Speaker 2>And he's a violent man. He's mean and angry and dangerous.

0:27:20.200 --> 0:27:22.440
<v Speaker 2>And to spoil some of the ending, when he dies,

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:24.199
<v Speaker 2>people come out and talk about him and they're like,

0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:27.920
<v Speaker 2>he was an incredibly common, peaceful man who de escalated

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:32.080
<v Speaker 2>so many fights and if you punched him, he'd fucking

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:36.360
<v Speaker 2>stab you. Yeah, like, yeah, he believed in self defense.

0:27:36.600 --> 0:27:39.920
<v Speaker 2>He's a country boy. He just a country boy child

0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:43.320
<v Speaker 2>of a sharecropper. Yeah, who used to play.

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:43.640
<v Speaker 3>At the lake.

0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:46.960
<v Speaker 4>But I beat you ass if you like, yeah, like,

0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 4>which is what you want all your sons to be?

0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:52.840
<v Speaker 2>No, I know this is like yeah, Like I reading

0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 2>about it, I'm like, yeah, all right, Like fuck absolutely,

0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:59.119
<v Speaker 2>like this is absolutely a decent role model, like in

0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 2>his earlier life if he could have been more committed

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:03.639
<v Speaker 2>to the women he was with. But like there's that,

0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:08.320
<v Speaker 2>you know whatever, not anyway, whatever, Yeah, yeah, and who

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to be dangerous to the people who are

0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:11.400
<v Speaker 2>dangerous to us?

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:12.240
<v Speaker 3>You know?

0:28:12.640 --> 0:28:15.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Like honestly, that's one of the main things I

0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:17.840
<v Speaker 2>talk about with like trans shit is I'm like, I'm like, yeah, no,

0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I try not to be afraid.

0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:21.280
<v Speaker 3>I try to be scary. That's my plan, you know.

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:24.320
<v Speaker 4>Yes, there's a phrase in the streets which is like

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:26.679
<v Speaker 4>stay dangerous where it's just like I need you like

0:28:26.760 --> 0:28:31.199
<v Speaker 4>that is my Yeah, my greatest tool of defense is

0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 4>to seem dangerous.

0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:33.440
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I remember once I was in this I was

0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:38.640
<v Speaker 2>taking this martial arts class. I was very classed differently

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 2>than everyone else in this class, and one of the

0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:43.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, people are like, oh, how do you stay

0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:45.360
<v Speaker 2>safe or whatever? And I was like, oh, when people

0:28:45.400 --> 0:28:48.080
<v Speaker 2>like you know, call me slurs on the street, I

0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:51.240
<v Speaker 2>pull a knife. And to be clear anyone who's listening

0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:53.080
<v Speaker 2>to this, I never did that. That would have been illegal.

0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:55.760
<v Speaker 2>But theoretically what I would have done if someone caused me,

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:57.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, caused me a fagot.

0:28:57.040 --> 0:28:58.400
<v Speaker 3>Is like pull a knife on them.

0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 2>And they were like, they were like, well, what do

0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:02.120
<v Speaker 2>you do if they come after you? And I was like,

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:05.920
<v Speaker 2>oh no, then I run like first, I'm really scare them.

0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna get in a knife fight. That's dumb.

0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's very it's very inefficient. Too.

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Was like that's called front and I was like, yeah,

0:29:14.000 --> 0:29:16.400
<v Speaker 2>no that's what they did. It works really well. Yeah,

0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:18.480
<v Speaker 2>that's exactly what it is. And then if they catch

0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:22.280
<v Speaker 2>up with me, I fight. I never well whatever anyway, No, my.

0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:25.080
<v Speaker 4>Friend's granddad used to say, a good run beats a

0:29:25.120 --> 0:29:26.280
<v Speaker 4>bad stand any day.

0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally.

0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:30.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:34.760
<v Speaker 2>And so young Young soon to be led belly. He's

0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:37.600
<v Speaker 2>a studious kid. He got to go to school until

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 2>eighth grade, at which point he had to come home

0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>and work on the farm because there's work that needed doing.

0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.920
<v Speaker 2>He was respectful and friendly, and his family fucking loved him,

0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 2>and he loved his family. And he was a musical prodigy.

0:29:50.440 --> 0:29:52.880
<v Speaker 2>And so people are like, oh, he was just naturally talented. No,

0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:56.200
<v Speaker 2>he worked his ass off. Yeah, like he sat by

0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:59.080
<v Speaker 2>the fire and did the well. His first instrument was accordion.

0:29:59.160 --> 0:29:59.719
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know that.

0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Wow, yeah, no, his his family bought him an accordion,

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:04.040
<v Speaker 2>a wind jammer.

0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 3>He called it. One of the button accordions is diatonic

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:09.880
<v Speaker 3>instead of fully chromatic. Swahili, you just spoke to Swahili.

0:30:09.920 --> 0:30:12.520
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, going, yeah, yeah, yeah, I used to play

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:15.880
<v Speaker 2>accordion on the street, so that's my I don't know

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:18.440
<v Speaker 2>what you just said, but I believe yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:21.000
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't play every note in the scale. It plays

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 2>certain ones, and it's used much more in like creole

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 2>music and all of that kind of stuff as compared

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:30.040
<v Speaker 2>to like French music, is like the bigger accordions.

0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:34.560
<v Speaker 2>So his cousin teaches him guitar when there's still little kids,

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:37.480
<v Speaker 2>and he is really good, and he sits by the

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:39.400
<v Speaker 2>fire and he does it over and over and over

0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:42.640
<v Speaker 2>again until he gets it right. He loved dancing. He

0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>would tap dance for the family. Soon enough, as a

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:48.120
<v Speaker 2>young teen, he's getting asked to play all the local

0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:51.080
<v Speaker 2>parties and at the school and all that shit. So

0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:53.000
<v Speaker 2>he and his cousin, Edmund, the one who got him

0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.480
<v Speaker 2>into guitar, they're playing Saturday nights out in the town,

0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 2>including at the white owned stores, and he starts bringing

0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:02.840
<v Speaker 2>in money for folks, which I think it's still possible

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:05.080
<v Speaker 2>to make a living as a musician. But I don't

0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 2>know if you knew this prop it's hard.

0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 3>It's yeah, man, it's news to me. Man. I was, yeah,

0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 3>pretty crazy, man, I was really hard. Yeah.

0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I remember the first timesode I gave me money for

0:31:16.280 --> 0:31:18.760
<v Speaker 2>playing a show. I have been playing shows for like

0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:22.080
<v Speaker 2>ten years. Someone was like, here's forty bucks, and I

0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:23.080
<v Speaker 2>was like, holy shit.

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:25.920
<v Speaker 4>Wait what Yeah, he got in a drink ticket and

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 4>gas money. You're like, oh, you're paying me for yeah?

0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:31.200
<v Speaker 3>Wait it get to you to pay me for this.

0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as far as I can tell before, recorded music

0:31:34.840 --> 0:31:38.040
<v Speaker 2>is everywhere actually a little easier. Yeah, Like you still

0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:39.520
<v Speaker 2>have to be fucking good and you still have to

0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 2>work your ass off. But he's like fifteen and bringing

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:46.640
<v Speaker 2>in money for his family. Yeah, but his cousin drops out.

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:48.920
<v Speaker 2>His cousin is like, no, these parties are too wild.

0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm not into the drinking and cussin. I like church.

0:31:52.080 --> 0:31:54.160
<v Speaker 3>And so he stopped playing out and he became a deacon.

0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:57.680
<v Speaker 3>Likely story, Harry Black story.

0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so Honey was on his own and he's traveling

0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:03.560
<v Speaker 2>around on his horse booker, and he kept his horse immaculate.

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.160
<v Speaker 2>He would wash it down all the time. How glossy

0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:08.720
<v Speaker 2>his horse was. Yeah know like we've been we've been

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:09.720
<v Speaker 2>cleaning our whibs.

0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:10.600
<v Speaker 3>You know what I'm saying.

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 2>They was horse.

0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:13.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you gotta keep it clean.

0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Baby, Yeah. Oh yeah.

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 5>No.

0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Later he's like later in his life, he kind of

0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:19.920
<v Speaker 2>yells at a younger musician. He's like, why are you

0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:23.120
<v Speaker 2>playing dressed up? Like shit, you gotta wear a fucking suit.

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:26.080
<v Speaker 2>You gotta come do take your suit jacket off when

0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:28.160
<v Speaker 2>you play. Oh man, you gotta come.

0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:29.960
<v Speaker 3>Is this not fair?

0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:31.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm turning red?

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:39.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh spooky like that. We've been cleaning our whips.

0:32:39.520 --> 0:32:44.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, baby, you know you got candy paint.

0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:45.200
<v Speaker 3>And you feel me.

0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:49.400
<v Speaker 2>There's this Irish song, this Irish fucking rap band called

0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:50.080
<v Speaker 2>the Rubber Band.

0:32:50.120 --> 0:32:51.760
<v Speaker 3>That's their joke. They're like a joke band.

0:32:52.120 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 2>But their song is like I got a horse outside,

0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:57.560
<v Speaker 2>And it's like trying to pick up on a woman

0:32:57.640 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 2>by being like leaving her like I think her mom's

0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:02.360
<v Speaker 2>funeral and is like, no, I can't kick you in

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:04.240
<v Speaker 2>a car, but I got my horse outside.

0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:07.960
<v Speaker 4>The horse outside. Yeah, what's that band that goes right

0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:11.200
<v Speaker 4>itself in? In medieval times? They're like an uh Irish like

0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:13.600
<v Speaker 4>rap group. They're like, uh, I wrote the whipping in

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:16.880
<v Speaker 4>medieval times. I signed up whipped bitch in the medieval times.

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 4>It's all in the medieval times. It's pretty funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:20.120
<v Speaker 4>anywhere you are.

0:33:22.120 --> 0:33:25.080
<v Speaker 2>So young. Ledbetter is not afraid of the rough and

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.400
<v Speaker 2>tumble life. He is not like preferring church.

0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:27.680
<v Speaker 6>He does.

0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Actually he goes to church, I think his whole fucking life.

0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:33.520
<v Speaker 2>But like this isn't like he doesn't mind he's playing

0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:36.520
<v Speaker 2>in brothels when he is fifteen years old. Yeah, and

0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:40.480
<v Speaker 2>his whole life. He particularly enjoys playing music for kids.

0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>He is like both wholesome and rough in every measure,

0:33:46.120 --> 0:33:47.760
<v Speaker 2>and it's part of why he's so fascinating.

0:33:48.040 --> 0:33:48.520
<v Speaker 3>Love it.

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:51.520
<v Speaker 4>And also every all the great, all the best musicians

0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:54.240
<v Speaker 4>are at church, so like you got to go play there.

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:54.400
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.680
<v Speaker 2>No, And actually a lot of when they're later they're

0:33:56.680 --> 0:33:59.240
<v Speaker 2>collecting songs from people. A lot of people are like, no,

0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:01.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to play secular music for you. Yeah,

0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:04.720
<v Speaker 2>like yeah, like no, we play religious music. That's like

0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:06.960
<v Speaker 2>it's weird. We played for church. We played for the church.

0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:10.560
<v Speaker 2>It's all yeah, parties called Suki Jumps paid him fifty

0:34:10.600 --> 0:34:13.440
<v Speaker 2>cents to play when he was fifteen, which is jumps.

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.160
<v Speaker 4>You're a suki jump, suki jem No, I've heard it

0:34:16.200 --> 0:34:17.479
<v Speaker 4>all Suki suki Now.

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:19.960
<v Speaker 3>I heard that. I never heard of, right, suki.

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Jump, So suki jarre so ridiculous.

0:34:23.160 --> 0:34:24.720
<v Speaker 1>I can't All right.

0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 2>This part is perfect. So first of all, fifty cents

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:30.120
<v Speaker 2>is about seventeen bucks. Yeah, okay, so it's not paying him. Incredible,

0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:31.919
<v Speaker 2>but they're going to fifty so'll not getting paid. Okay,

0:34:31.960 --> 0:34:33.560
<v Speaker 2>all right, I never heard of a suki jump, so

0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 2>I looked it up. Suki is old slang word for

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:40.480
<v Speaker 2>an enslaved person, s uk e y ooh. So a

0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:43.719
<v Speaker 2>suki jump in the nineteenth century was a party by

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and for the enslaved people. Okay, so it's entire thing

0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:51.240
<v Speaker 2>is this is the party for black people who are enslaved.

0:34:51.520 --> 0:34:52.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:34:52.120 --> 0:34:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Now, I'm going to tell you something that is probably

0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:58.120
<v Speaker 2>not going to shock you. The twenty first century band

0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:00.759
<v Speaker 2>called the Suki Jump Band that I found while trying

0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:03.120
<v Speaker 2>to look up suki jumps is all white people. Of

0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 2>course it is, Yeah, of course it is, at least

0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:08.640
<v Speaker 2>by looking at the photos. Yeah, one of them is

0:35:08.680 --> 0:35:10.760
<v Speaker 2>either not white or is just a white person dressed

0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:12.600
<v Speaker 2>up like free to Callo, But no one is black

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:14.239
<v Speaker 2>in this picture, just.

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:14.840
<v Speaker 3>Like freed To.

0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:18.960
<v Speaker 4>It might actually be Freeda. She had a wild life anyway,

0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 4>that's true.

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:22.040
<v Speaker 2>That's a good point. Yeah, no, yeah, But what you

0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:24.080
<v Speaker 2>might be surprised to know about the Suki Jump Band

0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:26.840
<v Speaker 2>is that the singer of the band is the actor

0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:31.440
<v Speaker 2>who played George g Stanza's fiance on Seinfeld, the woman

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:34.120
<v Speaker 2>who dies from licking poles in the stamps.

0:35:34.520 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 1>What wait, wait, wait.

0:35:38.000 --> 0:35:41.000
<v Speaker 3>Okay, okay, we got to draw the band string for us.

0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:43.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you're gonna have to do that, and then I'm

0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 5>gonna need you to explain this to our mutual friend

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:48.560
<v Speaker 5>Sarah Marshall, because that will blow her mind.

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:51.640
<v Speaker 2>It has been a million years since I watched Seinfeld.

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:54.520
<v Speaker 2>There's this whole thing where George Castanza is like, I think,

0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:59.680
<v Speaker 2>dating a lesbian and then she dies off screen from

0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 2>lick poisonous stamps and he like, I remember that, doesn't

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:07.200
<v Speaker 2>really care. The actor who played that woman is a

0:36:07.200 --> 0:36:09.360
<v Speaker 2>folk musician who is the lead singer of the Suky

0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:09.919
<v Speaker 2>Chup Band.

0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:11.000
<v Speaker 3>That is the motion.

0:36:11.160 --> 0:36:12.719
<v Speaker 1>Please tell Sarah about.

0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Just please, specifically a word for enslaved people having dances

0:36:17.440 --> 0:36:20.960
<v Speaker 2>like I'm not the first to cry appropriation. I do

0:36:21.040 --> 0:36:25.319
<v Speaker 2>believe on some level, culture blends and bleeds into each other.

0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:29.000
<v Speaker 2>But there's yeah, there's there's some borrowing, there's some fucking lines.

0:36:29.400 --> 0:36:31.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, there's some stuff that's like look, man, uh

0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:36.720
<v Speaker 4>I listen, listen. I live in I'm married a first

0:36:36.760 --> 0:36:39.560
<v Speaker 4>in Mexican woman, and I live in Nagelus. I live

0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:44.680
<v Speaker 4>in I grew up in a almost an entirely Latino

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:45.760
<v Speaker 4>Mexican environment.

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:47.279
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that's why you dress up as free

0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:47.600
<v Speaker 2>to CALLO.

0:36:47.840 --> 0:36:49.760
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I feel like I got a lot of passes,

0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:51.240
<v Speaker 4>and there are a lot of things that are okay,

0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:54.080
<v Speaker 4>like dressing up like free to call No. I'm just

0:36:54.120 --> 0:36:58.319
<v Speaker 4>like and even me with with biracial children, I just

0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:01.600
<v Speaker 4>feel like there's pot city these conversations I just shouldn't

0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:04.080
<v Speaker 4>be a part of. Yeah, And I'm like, I feel

0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:08.239
<v Speaker 4>like I understand, like I'll get into the Mexico El

0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:12.960
<v Speaker 4>Salvador thing like day little beef, especially when I'm like, Okay, well,

0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:15.600
<v Speaker 4>your borders were drawn by the cognizers, so don't understand

0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:16.640
<v Speaker 4>why y'all like each other.

0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Right, totally.

0:37:17.440 --> 0:37:19.560
<v Speaker 3>What that's none of my business.

0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:21.799
<v Speaker 2>Right, It's like you can like think about it and

0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:24.120
<v Speaker 2>read about it. Yeah, there's so many things I don't

0:37:24.120 --> 0:37:24.400
<v Speaker 2>need to have.

0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:24.799
<v Speaker 3>A say in.

0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:27.759
<v Speaker 2>Just exactly. I was like, myless things, Yeah, I don't

0:37:27.800 --> 0:37:30.200
<v Speaker 2>need to have a saying this. Yeah, just like be

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:33.480
<v Speaker 2>interested in is fine, yes, totally. You know, like you

0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:36.200
<v Speaker 2>should learn the difference to you know, why are the

0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:38.040
<v Speaker 2>borders were drawn at various times by who?

0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:40.359
<v Speaker 3>Like right, like yeah, and.

0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:41.839
<v Speaker 2>So like when I like meet people who are like,

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, African American versus Black, I'm thinking about like

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:46.719
<v Speaker 2>two folks that I used to work with, two like

0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:49.839
<v Speaker 2>older black, an older Black man, an older African American man,

0:37:49.840 --> 0:37:52.279
<v Speaker 2>and both folk are strongly about these identities. Yeah, and

0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:54.719
<v Speaker 2>one was very in a Marcus Garvey and one was

0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:57.520
<v Speaker 2>very not in a Marcus garb. And I was like, man,

0:37:57.560 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 2>I want to hear both of your sides so badly.

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:02.759
<v Speaker 2>And I have no fucking opinion. Yeah, I'm just curious.

0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:04.440
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to hear you talk.

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:08.840
<v Speaker 3>You're both so smart. Yeah, and like, what do you

0:38:08.880 --> 0:38:11.879
<v Speaker 3>think kill joy doesn't matter at all? Yeah?

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly what I think. Yeah. It it opened my

0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:17.320
<v Speaker 2>eyes to how some people see Marcus Garvey in a

0:38:17.320 --> 0:38:19.919
<v Speaker 2>way that was useful for me. Yeah, you know, yeah,

0:38:19.960 --> 0:38:23.160
<v Speaker 2>but do you know what I do know absolutely nothing

0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:24.160
<v Speaker 2>about oh.

0:38:24.120 --> 0:38:26.600
<v Speaker 3>Man whoever was about to advertise on his show. Yeah,

0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:29.240
<v Speaker 3>I have literally no idea, not a clue.

0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:45.759
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and we're back.

0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Yay.

0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:51.080
<v Speaker 2>So he's a fifteen year old riding a horse around

0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:54.920
<v Speaker 2>in Texas, rural Texas at night by starlightes. So his

0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:58.000
<v Speaker 2>dad buys him a handgun. As you do and over

0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:01.400
<v Speaker 2>and over again, dad is like, you are not to

0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:05.560
<v Speaker 2>go looking for trouble, but if trouble finds you, be

0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:06.200
<v Speaker 2>ready there.

0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:11.040
<v Speaker 4>It is advice. It's great dad advice. Yeah, fucking solid advice.

0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:14.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, if you're carrying a gun, that has to

0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:15.680
<v Speaker 3>be why you're doing it. Yeah.

0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:17.719
<v Speaker 2>And this actually goes fine for about ten years. This

0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:19.920
<v Speaker 2>wasn't a like and then he immediately ran off and

0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:22.799
<v Speaker 2>did crazy shit. He's going to be as several violent altercations,

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.640
<v Speaker 2>to go to jail many times. Yeah, but he is

0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:28.839
<v Speaker 2>going to prove that he is not a hot headed man.

0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:32.080
<v Speaker 2>He does, however, from a pretty early age, make it

0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:34.160
<v Speaker 2>very clear that he's not very good at being faithful

0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:37.600
<v Speaker 2>to the women that he dates. He had two daughters

0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:41.239
<v Speaker 2>in short secession with one woman named Margaret, just as

0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:44.640
<v Speaker 2>he married another woman named Alifa. Like his first daughter

0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:47.200
<v Speaker 2>with Margaret was born six months after he married Alifa,

0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:50.200
<v Speaker 2>and his second daughter with Margaret was born about a

0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:51.880
<v Speaker 2>year after he was married.

0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:55.640
<v Speaker 3>So got one night in town baby.

0:39:55.840 --> 0:39:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but he didn't deny being the father of those children.

0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.799
<v Speaker 2>He actual he's going to have a bunch of kids

0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:04.239
<v Speaker 2>by a bunch of different, bunch of different women, and

0:40:04.280 --> 0:40:06.600
<v Speaker 2>he's never going to be a shitty dad about it.

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:08.640
<v Speaker 3>He's always going to like try and keep up with them.

0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a lot of them take the name ledbetter even

0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:13.239
<v Speaker 2>though their parents aren't married to him, just because they're

0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:16.200
<v Speaker 2>like first of all, that name kind of goes hard. Yeah,

0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and it goes extra hard once your dad's fucking led belly.

0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:20.560
<v Speaker 3>That's pretty dope. Yeah.

0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:22.840
<v Speaker 2>There's also a lot of evidence that overall, like the

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:25.399
<v Speaker 2>women he's with like care about him, and he cares

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:25.799
<v Speaker 2>about them.

0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:29.239
<v Speaker 3>He's cheating on them, but like ya, we'll get to

0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:30.440
<v Speaker 3>it more later, Okay.

0:40:31.000 --> 0:40:34.040
<v Speaker 2>He and Alifa wanted the big city life, not the

0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>small town life. The couple moves to the Dallas area

0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:40.200
<v Speaker 2>and they worked as hired cotton pickers. They're not sharecropping,

0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:42.120
<v Speaker 2>and they're like daily they're like day labors, you know,

0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:45.239
<v Speaker 2>hourly labor, day labor. Yeah, and he sings to her

0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:48.600
<v Speaker 2>as they work, and this is also described as a

0:40:48.640 --> 0:40:51.600
<v Speaker 2>reasonably happy time in his life. He plays out every

0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:54.200
<v Speaker 2>chance he can. He tries to make it as a musician.

0:40:54.320 --> 0:40:58.400
<v Speaker 2>And it's there in Dallas that he learns the Mexican instrument,

0:40:58.520 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 2>the twelve string guitar. Whoa, that becomes his signature instrument.

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:03.719
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:07.120
<v Speaker 2>He often played with Blind Lemon Jefferson, the father of

0:41:07.120 --> 0:41:11.800
<v Speaker 2>the Texas Blues, who played Hawaiian guitar aka and open

0:41:11.840 --> 0:41:15.000
<v Speaker 2>tune guitar played with a slide Yeah, usually a bottleneck

0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:17.759
<v Speaker 2>or actually usually a pocket knife. Yeah.

0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:20.920
<v Speaker 3>And then Huddy plays mandolin or accordion alongside.

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh, they seem happy enough for a couple of them.

0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:24.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:41:24.600 --> 0:41:28.040
<v Speaker 2>From nineteen ten to nineteen fifteen, they make decent money.

0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:31.080
<v Speaker 2>They starts building an audience. Later, the white people who

0:41:31.080 --> 0:41:32.840
<v Speaker 2>discover him are going to be like, we pulled this

0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:34.799
<v Speaker 2>man out of nowhere. No one had heard of this,

0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:36.480
<v Speaker 2>like swamp creature we found.

0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:39.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this guy with a ten year music career. Yeah, Yeah,

0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:41.200
<v Speaker 4>he is packing shows.

0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And there's always scales though, right, because there is

0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:47.560
<v Speaker 2>a difference between like even Tory nationally and suddenly being

0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:49.239
<v Speaker 2>like a fucking pop star, you know.

0:41:49.520 --> 0:41:51.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, or just having like a local buzz where you

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:53.759
<v Speaker 4>just play out of juke joints down here, versus like

0:41:53.960 --> 0:41:56.560
<v Speaker 4>you're an artist now. So yeah, there is fair enough,

0:41:56.680 --> 0:42:00.440
<v Speaker 4>but like, yeah, I'm only on your radar because.

0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:01.719
<v Speaker 3>I was killing it where I was at No.

0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:03.120
<v Speaker 2>And that's such a good point that it even just

0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:04.960
<v Speaker 2>goes to like when people are like, oh, you got lucky,

0:42:05.000 --> 0:42:08.080
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, yeah, by showing up to work every

0:42:08.120 --> 0:42:12.359
<v Speaker 2>single day for ten years, yeah, eventually someone noticed me. Yeah,

0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:16.440
<v Speaker 2>totally don't get noticed unless you show up and play shows.

0:42:16.160 --> 0:42:17.560
<v Speaker 3>For the last ten years. Yeah.

0:42:17.719 --> 0:42:17.919
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:18.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:21.480
<v Speaker 2>So he's twenty six years old in nineteen fifteen and

0:42:21.520 --> 0:42:24.400
<v Speaker 2>he has his first serious run in with the law,

0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:26.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's going to tie into both white supremacy and

0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:27.440
<v Speaker 2>self defense.

0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:30.120
<v Speaker 3>This is going to be a continuing pattern. Great.

0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:33.560
<v Speaker 2>He and Aalitha went home that year for the fiftieth Juneteenth.

0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:36.360
<v Speaker 2>It had been fifty years since the text.

0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:38.280
<v Speaker 3>And slaves were freed. What a thought.

0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.319
<v Speaker 2>A few days before the celebrations, Huddy goes to go

0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:44.400
<v Speaker 2>play a party somewhere along the way, like somewhere along

0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:47.440
<v Speaker 2>the road at night. He gets into a fight and

0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:50.920
<v Speaker 2>he shoots and injures another black man. And there's no

0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:54.520
<v Speaker 2>particular evidence about how exactly this went down. The only

0:42:54.520 --> 0:42:56.600
<v Speaker 2>people who even said, like, this is what happened are

0:42:56.640 --> 0:42:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the people who are exploiting him or trying to build

0:42:58.600 --> 0:42:58.759
<v Speaker 2>up the.

0:42:58.800 --> 0:42:59.600
<v Speaker 3>Story about him.

0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:02.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the myth making is that it was a fight

0:43:02.480 --> 0:43:05.640
<v Speaker 2>over a woman, because Huddy is a horrible flanderer.

0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:07.280
<v Speaker 3>He's a little bit of a flanderer.

0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but also it might have been self defense, even

0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:13.440
<v Speaker 2>in that particular case. I do know that he carried

0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:15.680
<v Speaker 2>a pistol for eleven years before he ever fired it

0:43:15.719 --> 0:43:18.120
<v Speaker 2>in a way that brought police attention. So I don't

0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:20.480
<v Speaker 2>think he was reckless. Yeah, he drank and he gambled,

0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 2>it probably wasn't reckless. He's brought up on charges. His

0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:28.879
<v Speaker 2>parents hire two white lawyers to defend him. No, which

0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:31.880
<v Speaker 2>is not easy. They sign over they have sixty eight

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:35.360
<v Speaker 2>and a half acres, They sign over thirty fucking acres dail,

0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:39.359
<v Speaker 2>which is like just loving parents, you know.

0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:42.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, because it's like it's not like they have cash,

0:43:42.320 --> 0:43:44.160
<v Speaker 4>you know what I'm saying. Yeah, but like exactly, you

0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:47.000
<v Speaker 4>got land and then right, yeah, when these two white

0:43:47.080 --> 0:43:50.520
<v Speaker 4>lawyers are and even if, even if you give them

0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:55.040
<v Speaker 4>the most kindest read of them, even if I were

0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:58.279
<v Speaker 4>to do this for free, yeah, I am ending my

0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:01.640
<v Speaker 4>law career by showing up up defending this black man.

0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.279
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, I mean I might not be able to

0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:06.000
<v Speaker 4>spore myself for the rest of my life. So like,

0:44:06.160 --> 0:44:07.520
<v Speaker 4>is there something y'all could do?

0:44:07.719 --> 0:44:07.959
<v Speaker 3>Well?

0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Maybe, I think in this case, because it's it's it's

0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:15.239
<v Speaker 2>black on black crimes, I'll get to air quots. I

0:44:15.320 --> 0:44:17.080
<v Speaker 2>believe that these people are part of a white spres

0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:20.480
<v Speaker 2>and take land away from black people. But later he

0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:22.800
<v Speaker 2>actually is going to get defended I think pro bono

0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:24.640
<v Speaker 2>by just like straight up well meaning white people who

0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe like his music. Okay, but that's decades late.

0:44:27.520 --> 0:44:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Now what's happening right now?

0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:29.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Okay?

0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:31.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Actually later a man like drops out of grad

0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:33.240
<v Speaker 2>school to raise money for his defense.

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:36.640
<v Speaker 3>Later like he fucking rips man way later.

0:44:37.400 --> 0:44:37.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:44:38.239 --> 0:44:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and his parents might have thought they were just

0:44:42.760 --> 0:44:47.120
<v Speaker 2>staking half their farm, not signing it over completely. Oh no,

0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:49.080
<v Speaker 2>but now that they have Okay, So now they have

0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:51.959
<v Speaker 2>white lawyers, and the charges mysteriously got dropped. They didn't

0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:53.440
<v Speaker 2>even have to the whitelayers didn't have to show up

0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:56.440
<v Speaker 2>in court. They just fucking magic network that bullshit, right,

0:44:57.520 --> 0:45:02.560
<v Speaker 2>But instead he gets charged with carrying a pistol and

0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:05.880
<v Speaker 2>it is either from this, I believe it's two charges

0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:08.440
<v Speaker 2>in like three weeks. It's both the self defense carrying

0:45:08.440 --> 0:45:12.520
<v Speaker 2>a pistol and later a walking while black. Yeah, and

0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:15.000
<v Speaker 2>because it was illegal at the time in Texas to

0:45:15.000 --> 0:45:17.759
<v Speaker 2>walk around carrying a pistol, and all white men did

0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:19.560
<v Speaker 2>it all of the time and no one stopped them.

0:45:19.840 --> 0:45:20.240
<v Speaker 3>Of course.

0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:23.640
<v Speaker 2>One of the most fun things fun gets quotes here.

0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:25.480
<v Speaker 2>One of the most fun things about America is it's

0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:30.560
<v Speaker 2>so racist that both gun control and pro gun lobbies

0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:32.720
<v Speaker 2>they just both come from racism.

0:45:32.840 --> 0:45:35.839
<v Speaker 3>It's so bizarre. Yeah, it's like, man, nothing will make

0:45:35.920 --> 0:45:36.480
<v Speaker 3>y'all happy.

0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, oh totally.

0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:38.919
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:41.960
<v Speaker 2>They're like the state wants certain people to be armed

0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:44.239
<v Speaker 2>and able to commit extra judicial violence, and it wants

0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:47.440
<v Speaker 2>other people disarmed, and so you make laws and then

0:45:47.480 --> 0:45:49.719
<v Speaker 2>you selectively enforce them, and that's how you can do that.

0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:54.239
<v Speaker 2>And that still happens today. Recently, the ATF announced that

0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:56.920
<v Speaker 2>it's pistol brace rule. There's this thing where like, if

0:45:56.920 --> 0:45:58.840
<v Speaker 2>you have an AR fifteen, this is going to be

0:45:58.920 --> 0:46:00.839
<v Speaker 2>totally in the weeds. Let's go, gi have an AAR

0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:03.840
<v Speaker 2>fifteen and you put a regular it can be technically

0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:06.920
<v Speaker 2>a pistol, or it could be technically a rifle, but

0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:10.560
<v Speaker 2>it's illegal if it's short and a rifle that's a

0:46:10.600 --> 0:46:14.200
<v Speaker 2>short barreled rifle. Yeah, and so a stock versus a

0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:16.240
<v Speaker 2>brace is what sets this apart.

0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:16.959
<v Speaker 3>Huh.

0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:22.200
<v Speaker 2>And the ATF said the a fucking couple of weeks ago, like, well,

0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:24.799
<v Speaker 2>we're just going to if you get arrested for something else,

0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:27.080
<v Speaker 2>take a closer look at your guns and then decide

0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:29.239
<v Speaker 2>whether or not it's a fucking short barreled rifle to

0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:33.520
<v Speaker 2>charge you. So they're just blatantly saying opinion, if you

0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:35.320
<v Speaker 2>if you ain't got nothing to hide, it's.

0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:39.080
<v Speaker 3>Not a problem. Yeah, we'll decide if you committed a crime.

0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:46:40.239 --> 0:46:42.680
<v Speaker 4>Day and again you wonder why we don't trust the system,

0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:45.360
<v Speaker 4>It's like you're making it up as you go along.

0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:50.560
<v Speaker 3>That's why. That's why I don't trust Yeah, yeah, why I'm.

0:46:50.480 --> 0:46:53.759
<v Speaker 2>Really fucking careful about gun laws, like I don't. There's

0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:55.880
<v Speaker 2>no gray area that I feel is safe for me

0:46:55.960 --> 0:47:01.280
<v Speaker 2>to be in, you know, like, and so it's completely possible.

0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:04.239
<v Speaker 2>One history and I read conjectures that this whole thing

0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:07.799
<v Speaker 2>was orchestrated to get this land into the hands of

0:47:07.880 --> 0:47:13.000
<v Speaker 2>white oil prospectors, because that's what fucking happened. Yeah. In

0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:14.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the other episodes I've done a while ago,

0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:18.759
<v Speaker 2>I talk about the like numbers. The black ownership of

0:47:18.880 --> 0:47:20.960
<v Speaker 2>land in the South at the end of the nineteenth

0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:24.200
<v Speaker 2>century versus thirty years later is dramatic because the hardest

0:47:24.239 --> 0:47:29.399
<v Speaker 2>people to disenfranchise during Jim Crow were the landowners. Congratulations,

0:47:29.440 --> 0:47:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Leoy Supremase succeeded at that. Finally, you know, they figured

0:47:32.400 --> 0:47:37.600
<v Speaker 2>it out. Yeah, and so oil prospectors get the thirty acres. Meanwhile,

0:47:38.200 --> 0:47:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Hotey gets himself thirty days on a chain gang, plus

0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:43.919
<v Speaker 2>extra at least five months to pay off his fines

0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:46.560
<v Speaker 2>of fifty cents a day. We actually don't know how

0:47:46.600 --> 0:47:49.840
<v Speaker 2>long he was supposed to be in jail, because this man.

0:47:49.680 --> 0:47:52.640
<v Speaker 3>Did not stay in jail. Let's go, I'm out cuz.

0:47:53.080 --> 0:47:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just to reverence my granddad, the hobo again, my

0:47:55.880 --> 0:47:58.360
<v Speaker 2>granddad also was on a chain gang for a while

0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:01.520
<v Speaker 2>because he was stealing a car and he refused to

0:48:01.560 --> 0:48:03.359
<v Speaker 2>snitch out the people he stole the car with.

0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:04.399
<v Speaker 3>I love it.

0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:08.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, let's go Grandpops. Yeah, hey, pop Pop, what'd you

0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:09.080
<v Speaker 4>do when I was a.

0:48:09.280 --> 0:48:10.920
<v Speaker 3>Stole a car, didn't snitch?

0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And then he fought in World War two and

0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:15.480
<v Speaker 2>worked for the government. But like before that.

0:48:16.160 --> 0:48:19.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, before then, I was pretty badass. Yeah. Yeah.

0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:21.000
<v Speaker 2>The rest of my family is confused that the part

0:48:21.040 --> 0:48:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that I'm really interested in is the hobo stories. Yeah yeah, yeah,

0:48:24.480 --> 0:48:28.000
<v Speaker 2>like no, I wrote trains, I want to fucking Yeah.

0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:31.480
<v Speaker 2>And so he gets sent out. They give him some

0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:34.840
<v Speaker 2>unknown length of time. Officials are getting paid out in

0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:38.160
<v Speaker 2>a cash for convicts kind of program. Chain gangs provide

0:48:38.239 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 2>cheap labor for various private interests. Yea, four months into

0:48:42.160 --> 0:48:44.879
<v Speaker 2>his one month sentence, he decides he's been in jail

0:48:44.920 --> 0:48:47.879
<v Speaker 2>long enough. He and his fellow convicts they're in these

0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:51.160
<v Speaker 2>like prison wagons, these wooden wagons that take them around

0:48:51.160 --> 0:48:53.440
<v Speaker 2>to do work on the chain gang. And so like

0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:55.759
<v Speaker 2>even like Sundays they're like day off, they're just like

0:48:55.800 --> 0:48:59.440
<v Speaker 2>in cages by the side of the fucking road, you know. Yeah,

0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:02.840
<v Speaker 2>And so he and his fellow convicts start a fire

0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:05.680
<v Speaker 2>and burn a hole in the floor of the jail wagon.

0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Cut yeah, and they all get off and movie. Unlike

0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:14.439
<v Speaker 2>almost every other story about jail breaks that I've ever read,

0:49:14.440 --> 0:49:16.360
<v Speaker 2>including some of his later jail breaks, this is not

0:49:16.360 --> 0:49:17.759
<v Speaker 2>the only time he's going to break out of jail.

0:49:18.400 --> 0:49:21.239
<v Speaker 2>He succeeds so crazy, he never does the rest of

0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:24.720
<v Speaker 2>that sentence. So crazy he goes. And he also doesn't

0:49:24.760 --> 0:49:26.279
<v Speaker 2>have to hide like a lot of times now, if

0:49:26.320 --> 0:49:27.840
<v Speaker 2>you break out of jail, they catch you because you

0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:30.520
<v Speaker 2>go home to your family, right, Yeah, but it's old

0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:31.360
<v Speaker 2>timey times.

0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:35.239
<v Speaker 2>So he and Alitha, his wife, fuck off up north

0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:37.560
<v Speaker 2>and they change their name to mister and Ms Walter

0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:40.799
<v Speaker 2>boyd Yes, and they moved to another black community up

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.920
<v Speaker 2>near the Oklahoma border. The pair of them sharecropped, and

0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:47.360
<v Speaker 2>he broke wild horses. He played his twelve string guitar

0:49:47.440 --> 0:49:50.200
<v Speaker 2>for everybody all the time. Some of his young nieces

0:49:50.200 --> 0:49:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and nephews came to live with him because his family's

0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:53.799
<v Speaker 2>having a rough time because they just lost a lot

0:49:53.800 --> 0:49:55.640
<v Speaker 2>of their land and everything's going badly.

0:49:55.840 --> 0:49:56.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:49:57.000 --> 0:50:00.439
<v Speaker 2>And then a year into his new life, he killed

0:50:00.440 --> 0:50:00.719
<v Speaker 2>a man.

0:50:01.080 --> 0:50:01.839
<v Speaker 3>Oh so there's that.

0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:05.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I was about to make a joke about Okay, nephew,

0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:08.800
<v Speaker 4>now when you come up here, my name is BOYD now.

0:50:08.680 --> 0:50:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah yeah yeah, boy yeah yeah No, it's that's

0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:15.800
<v Speaker 2>not what got him in trouble. It was definitely shooting

0:50:15.840 --> 0:50:18.280
<v Speaker 2>a guy that got him in trouble. He killed a guy,

0:50:18.400 --> 0:50:22.760
<v Speaker 2>He shot and killed his distant cousin's husband. The most

0:50:22.920 --> 0:50:25.759
<v Speaker 2>likely story is that the two men were arguing. The

0:50:25.800 --> 0:50:28.480
<v Speaker 2>story that's completely possible, but is the story that's played

0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:31.200
<v Speaker 2>up is that the guy was like, you slept with

0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:33.919
<v Speaker 2>my wife and then attacked him, and then he shot

0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:36.360
<v Speaker 2>him in self defense, possibly with that guy's own gun,

0:50:37.920 --> 0:50:40.680
<v Speaker 2>or they were gambling and arguing about money. There are

0:50:40.800 --> 0:50:43.279
<v Speaker 2>witnesses that say it was self defense because the guy

0:50:43.320 --> 0:50:47.719
<v Speaker 2>pulled a gun on him, But self defense doesn't get

0:50:48.160 --> 0:50:50.560
<v Speaker 2>black men, even black men accused of killing black men

0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:55.240
<v Speaker 2>out of jail, because there's no profit in not convicting

0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:58.040
<v Speaker 2>a black man where there's lots of profit, and convicting

0:50:58.080 --> 0:51:00.040
<v Speaker 2>a black man too was con.

0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:02.040
<v Speaker 3>And sends to twenty years bail.

0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:05.160
<v Speaker 2>And just because I love the name Margaret, the wife

0:51:05.160 --> 0:51:07.360
<v Speaker 2>in question was named Peggy, which means her name was

0:51:07.400 --> 0:51:12.320
<v Speaker 2>probably Margaret, but her she went by pig. Yeah, that's precious,

0:51:12.400 --> 0:51:14.640
<v Speaker 2>which is a whole new nickname for Margaret I've never

0:51:14.640 --> 0:51:15.240
<v Speaker 2>heard before.

0:51:15.360 --> 0:51:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Cute.

0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:18.880
<v Speaker 3>That's amazing, Yeah, yeah, cute.

0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:22.480
<v Speaker 2>So he had lawyers, and this time he had white

0:51:22.520 --> 0:51:25.360
<v Speaker 2>lawyers working pro bono and no one seems quite sure why.

0:51:25.760 --> 0:51:28.640
<v Speaker 2>But he gets convicted and he goes to jail and

0:51:28.680 --> 0:51:30.680
<v Speaker 2>his lawyers are trying to get him retried because it's

0:51:30.760 --> 0:51:34.840
<v Speaker 2>pretty obviously self defense, but he doesn't like being in jail.

0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:38.399
<v Speaker 2>So anywait, no, when the jailer comes into the cell

0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:41.040
<v Speaker 2>one day, one of the inmates, there's like four of them.

0:51:41.280 --> 0:51:42.880
<v Speaker 2>You break got her jail again?

0:51:43.680 --> 0:51:45.520
<v Speaker 3>Huh yeah, no, totally yeah. Yeah.

0:51:45.680 --> 0:51:49.520
<v Speaker 2>After a couple of weeks, How fast is this dude?

0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:52.279
<v Speaker 2>This time one inmate jumps out of a pile of

0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:56.359
<v Speaker 2>laundry and overpowers the guard and steals his gun and.

0:51:56.280 --> 0:51:58.320
<v Speaker 3>Then they run for it. This is amazing.

0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:00.960
<v Speaker 2>It didn't go as well this time, for actually one

0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:02.759
<v Speaker 2>of them might have gotten away, but one of them

0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:05.800
<v Speaker 2>was shot and killed in the escape attempt, and Huddy

0:52:05.960 --> 0:52:06.600
<v Speaker 2>was caught a.

0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:08.239
<v Speaker 3>Few miles away. He was unarmed.

0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:12.080
<v Speaker 2>One escape he might have made it, so he was

0:52:12.120 --> 0:52:14.640
<v Speaker 2>found guilty for the attempted murder of the prison guard,

0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:17.000
<v Speaker 2>and he was going to be in prison. Both sentences

0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:19.520
<v Speaker 2>were not running but at the same time. Yeah, they

0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:22.279
<v Speaker 2>were running consecutively. Instead he had one then the other.

0:52:22.760 --> 0:52:24.400
<v Speaker 2>It was going to be in prison for seven to

0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:28.399
<v Speaker 2>thirty years. Who while he was in prison, another child

0:52:28.440 --> 0:52:30.880
<v Speaker 2>he'd had with someone else who wasn't his wife, was born.

0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Had a kid what whatever the right way the grammar

0:52:34.400 --> 0:52:37.120
<v Speaker 2>of that sentence. He had a kid with somebody. He

0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:40.120
<v Speaker 2>likely never got to know about this kid. He was

0:52:40.120 --> 0:52:43.680
<v Speaker 2>in jail for a while. Alitha, for her part, I

0:52:43.680 --> 0:52:46.120
<v Speaker 2>think she's done with him. I feel like at this

0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:53.560
<v Speaker 2>point and she becomes a preacher. Of course she does. Yes, yes, no,

0:52:53.680 --> 0:52:56.040
<v Speaker 2>she tied. Ah, he's you know, I'm gonna give my

0:52:56.200 --> 0:52:59.640
<v Speaker 2>life to Jesus. I was outside, Yeah, cussing and fussing.

0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:01.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:53:01.840 --> 0:53:03.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they ever got divorced, maybe they

0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:07.640
<v Speaker 2>just stopped being married. But that's where we're gonna leave it.

0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Now he's in prison for a second time. He's he's

0:53:11.120 --> 0:53:13.480
<v Speaker 2>not gonna stay there. He's gonna become incredibly famous. The

0:53:13.480 --> 0:53:15.520
<v Speaker 2>people who are gonna help make him famous are gonna

0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:19.120
<v Speaker 2>treat him like absolute fucking garbage, and then he's gonna

0:53:19.120 --> 0:53:20.320
<v Speaker 2>fuck well, I don't want to spoil.

0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:20.960
<v Speaker 3>All of you, don't ruin it.

0:53:21.080 --> 0:53:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but he's gonna do some awesome fucking cool stuff,

0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:27.640
<v Speaker 2>including apparently be faithful. I'm quite happy with his second

0:53:27.680 --> 0:53:28.759
<v Speaker 2>wife to the end of his days.

0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Ah, And so neither first recorded Wolkester.

0:53:35.680 --> 0:53:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Stay Woke. No, you can hear the recording too, it's

0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:41.440
<v Speaker 2>on YouTube. It's it's one of him many times he

0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:46.040
<v Speaker 2>sings Scottsboro Boys. Yeah, anyway, what do you think about

0:53:46.040 --> 0:53:47.080
<v Speaker 2>old Ladbelly so far?

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:49.120
<v Speaker 4>Man, He's not a cool person yet, He's just a

0:53:49.160 --> 0:53:52.520
<v Speaker 4>regular dude who has lived some really dope adventures.

0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally.

0:53:53.400 --> 0:53:56.960
<v Speaker 4>But like, knowing where this goes is just like I

0:53:57.000 --> 0:54:00.960
<v Speaker 4>didn't I've obviously I had no idea at his backstory.

0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:05.440
<v Speaker 3>I just knew his contributions. But this is so fun,

0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:07.360
<v Speaker 3>Like I've been smiling the whole time.

0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, one of the things that I like about him,

0:54:10.880 --> 0:54:14.359
<v Speaker 2>he's a regular dude, Yeah, who made amazing contributions, who

0:54:14.400 --> 0:54:17.920
<v Speaker 2>had crazy adventures. Yeah, who like did some fucked up

0:54:17.920 --> 0:54:20.799
<v Speaker 2>stuff and did some really fucking cool stuff, And like

0:54:21.280 --> 0:54:22.440
<v Speaker 2>it makes them more real.

0:54:22.719 --> 0:54:23.359
<v Speaker 3>I love it.

0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:25.520
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it makes the music makes so much more sense too,

0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:28.640
<v Speaker 4>where you're just like, yeah, yeah, bro, like he look

0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:30.000
<v Speaker 4>came into town.

0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:31.400
<v Speaker 3>Playing his twelve string.

0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:34.919
<v Speaker 4>He out there up there being fine as hell, and yeah,

0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:37.160
<v Speaker 4>bagged him with chick that night. He just happened to

0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:39.560
<v Speaker 4>get it pregnant and he's like, yeah, well, I mean

0:54:39.600 --> 0:54:43.200
<v Speaker 4>I made another kid today, So yeah, all right, I

0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:44.960
<v Speaker 4>mean it is what it is, yeah, you know.

0:54:45.680 --> 0:54:48.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and as funny is, he's still like not rock

0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:48.959
<v Speaker 3>star level.

0:54:49.200 --> 0:54:52.640
<v Speaker 4>Oh, he's just like, you know, like there's there's such

0:54:52.719 --> 0:54:55.360
<v Speaker 4>thing as like like black Hollywood, like you black famous

0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:58.480
<v Speaker 4>like that. Yeah, everybody don't You're not a megastar like

0:54:58.520 --> 0:55:00.920
<v Speaker 4>the world don't know, but like we mess with you, you know.

0:55:01.080 --> 0:55:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah yeah. Well if people want to hear your

0:55:04.760 --> 0:55:07.839
<v Speaker 2>music or maybe your podcast, other ways that they can

0:55:07.880 --> 0:55:08.120
<v Speaker 2>do it.

0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:12.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the politics prop I'm on the same network with

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:16.359
<v Speaker 4>these wonderful humans right here, proptpop dot Com. A lot

0:55:16.360 --> 0:55:18.600
<v Speaker 4>of new music rolling out, man, I'm actually really excited

0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:19.520
<v Speaker 4>about the new stuff.

0:55:19.920 --> 0:55:20.480
<v Speaker 3>Check this out.

0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:22.719
<v Speaker 4>Actually this is something to promote I am going to

0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:25.440
<v Speaker 4>somehow I got involved in improv.

0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:27.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how this happened.

0:55:27.120 --> 0:55:28.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry. Huh and uh.

0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:32.279
<v Speaker 4>But the show got invited to the Fringe Festival. If

0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:32.960
<v Speaker 4>you're the Fringe.

0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:35.239
<v Speaker 3>No, I never heard of it, but it's.

0:55:35.040 --> 0:55:36.600
<v Speaker 2>I think I've heard the name, so it must be big.

0:55:36.640 --> 0:55:38.520
<v Speaker 2>If I have heard, it's pretty big.

0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:42.960
<v Speaker 4>It's in Scotland, in Edinburgh and it's like kind of

0:55:43.000 --> 0:55:45.719
<v Speaker 4>a thing. So anyway, the people putting it together put

0:55:45.760 --> 0:55:47.839
<v Speaker 4>together like a seed and spark to like support it

0:55:48.520 --> 0:55:52.719
<v Speaker 4>because this ain't like paid gig, you know what I'm saying,

0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:55.640
<v Speaker 4>which was weird to me because I was like, oh, yeah,

0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:56.920
<v Speaker 4>it's cool go to the festival.

0:55:57.360 --> 0:55:59.520
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, yeah, hit me up and they're like, oh no,

0:55:59.800 --> 0:56:02.200
<v Speaker 3>you have to. You have to pay your way there, and.

0:56:02.200 --> 0:56:05.640
<v Speaker 4>I was like, oh shit, I don't know really, So

0:56:05.719 --> 0:56:07.840
<v Speaker 4>then I told some people and they were like, no,

0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:10.120
<v Speaker 4>you got to figure out how to Apparently mister Bean

0:56:10.800 --> 0:56:14.240
<v Speaker 4>the first sight all right, he's yep, his first showing

0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:17.239
<v Speaker 4>was at Fringe. Yeah, and then got the show, so

0:56:17.280 --> 0:56:19.120
<v Speaker 4>it's like, okay, so you gotta go, you gotta go

0:56:19.120 --> 0:56:19.440
<v Speaker 4>do it.

0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:21.520
<v Speaker 1>Jamie performed at the Fringe Festival.

0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:24.560
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, see so shit, yeah it's a thing. So

0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:27.640
<v Speaker 4>now I'm going, but like y'all want to support to boy.

0:56:27.760 --> 0:56:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they should talk to Jamie about it.

0:56:29.800 --> 0:56:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, No, it makes sense that there's like there's certain

0:56:32.080 --> 0:56:33.279
<v Speaker 2>things where you're like, you want me to do what

0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:35.359
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna pay me if I'm going to do that,

0:56:35.440 --> 0:56:37.439
<v Speaker 2>and then every now and then you're like, I will

0:56:37.480 --> 0:56:38.440
<v Speaker 2>do that for exposure.

0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:40.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because it's a fucking lot of exposure.

0:56:40.520 --> 0:56:42.560
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of dope, Like, yeah, this is kind of dope.

0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:46.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So yeah, sports A Boy, that's some of my websites.

0:56:46.239 --> 0:56:48.000
<v Speaker 1>You're going to practicup perform every night.

0:56:48.480 --> 0:56:51.640
<v Speaker 4>Fifteen seventeen days and fifteen shows. Yeah, every other night

0:56:51.840 --> 0:56:54.640
<v Speaker 4>or every night everybody too, So it's like it's going down. Yeah,

0:56:54.680 --> 0:56:57.360
<v Speaker 4>I basically freestyle a spoken word.

0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Jimmy did boss whum his girl at that friend festival

0:57:00.719 --> 0:57:01.560
<v Speaker 1>like several years ago.

0:57:01.719 --> 0:57:05.160
<v Speaker 3>Dude, I'll ask her, Yeah, I talked to her. Yeah.

0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:07.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, people should listen to Politics a Prop. It is

0:57:07.960 --> 0:57:11.200
<v Speaker 2>one of the best shows about just actually breaking down

0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:13.840
<v Speaker 2>what's fucking happening in the world, Like like, if you

0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:16.680
<v Speaker 2>ever are like I'm confused about what all this fucking

0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:18.880
<v Speaker 2>shit means. I just listened to Politics a Prop. That

0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:20.760
<v Speaker 2>sounds like I'm doing an ad read. I just literally

0:57:20.800 --> 0:57:22.120
<v Speaker 2>do that. That is a thing that I do.

0:57:22.320 --> 0:57:22.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:57:22.560 --> 0:57:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I listen to a lot of podcasts, and so I

0:57:23.840 --> 0:57:27.440
<v Speaker 2>have visual memories of where Yeah, like ah, I learned

0:57:27.480 --> 0:57:30.320
<v Speaker 2>that thing, well, hanging curtains, yeah, or like whatever the

0:57:30.320 --> 0:57:32.760
<v Speaker 2>fucking thing is, Like, ah, walk in the dog, That's

0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:36.400
<v Speaker 2>where I learned about this thing. So cool people should.

0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Listen to that man and thank you.

0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:41.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah people should listen to this show on Wednesday when

0:57:41.280 --> 0:57:45.800
<v Speaker 2>we come back for part two. Whoo, I just want

0:57:45.800 --> 0:57:49.360
<v Speaker 2>to pop in real quick from the future and say,

0:57:49.480 --> 0:57:52.040
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe I forgot to kind of more specifically

0:57:52.040 --> 0:57:55.480
<v Speaker 2>and directly point out the person and the book that

0:57:55.800 --> 0:57:59.840
<v Speaker 2>helped bring all of this information to light. It's right

0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:03.240
<v Speaker 2>there in the title. It's called Bring Judgment Day. Reclaiming

0:58:03.320 --> 0:58:07.720
<v Speaker 2>Leadbelly's Truths from Jim Crow's Lies by Sheila Kuran Bernard.

0:58:13.880 --> 0:58:16.400
<v Speaker 5>Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:19.560
<v Speaker 5>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

0:58:19.680 --> 0:58:22.919
<v Speaker 5>visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:26.400
<v Speaker 5>on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:27.640
<v Speaker 5>your podcasts.