WEBVTT - Tesla's Disappointing Sales 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:09.680 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:15.720 where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:33.400 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlowe. 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.160 Good morning, everybody. I'm Tim Steneveeg and. 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.880 I'm Katie Greifeld, both in New York. This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.600 Coming on at Tesla's annual eb sales dropped for the 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:45.600 first time in over a decade. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.479 And speaking of Tesla, the company also in focus following 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.760 a cybertruck explosion outside the Trump Las Vegas Hotel yesterday. 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:53.920 We'll have the latest. 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.480 Man TikTok is feeling the heat as its potential ban 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.400 draws near. We'll discuss a little later this hour. First, though, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.640 a check on markets on this first trading day of 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.360 twenty twenty five KT. I don't know about you, but 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.880 I'm still writing twenty twenty four on all my checks. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.039 That's terrible. I think we can still safely say happy New. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:11.600 Year, though, thanks Happy New Year. 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.640 I think a lot of investors are happy we turned 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:14.200 the page. 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.720 I think they are too. Although the Nasdaq had great 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.000 years back to back in twenty twenty four and twenty 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.800 twenty three, up today the Nasdaq one hundred by three 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.840 tenths of one percent. We do have about seventy percent 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.319 of the stocks in the Nasdaq one hundred higher today 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.720 five of the seven mag seven higher, with only Tesla 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.640 and Apple lower weighing on today's trade. KT. I know 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.200 you're gonna have more on Tesla in just a minute. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.280 I mentioned back to back years of gains twenty twenty 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.000 four and Nasdaq one hundred is up nearly twenty five 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.440 percent twenty twenty three, up by more than fifty percent. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.400 Speaking of back to back years of gains, Bitcoin higher 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.280 today for a third day in a row, one point 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.760 seven percent to the upside, up by about sixteen hundred dollars. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.120 It did fall about three percent in December, up more 0:01:58.160 --> 0:01:59.960 than one hundred twenty percent, and twenty twenty four k 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:02.720 of more than one hundred and fifty percent in twenty 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:03.240 twenty three. 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.360 That's the thing you mentioned, some of those stats, those 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.959 yearly stats, especially for the NASAQ one hundred. That's even 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.960 with the big benchmarks puking in the final week of 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.120 the year. So clearly a bit of relief today, even 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.880 with Tesla doing its darnedness to try to drag this 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.359 index down. Let's take a look at shares right now. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.160 You can see down about five point six percent. Of course, 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.160 we got their fourth quarter deliveries this morning, coming in 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.400 at four hundred and ninety five thousand vehicles that missed 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.600 analyst projections. They had been penciling in about five hundred 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:36.240 and twelve thousand vehicles delivered, and you can see that 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.960 disappointment in the shares right now. Tesla also had a 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.880 fantastic year in twenty twenty four, but it came with 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.440 a ton of volatility ends a lot of political cross 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:46.240 currents as well. 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.040 Yeah, that's certainly something we'll be talking about in just 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:50.880 a few minutes. But how about this last few months 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.440 of twenty twenty four for Tesla? I know, probably remarkable. 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.720 Well remarkable too because Elon Musk some have them calling 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.320 him the co president President elect Donald Trump doesn't of that, 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:04.360 and President elected Donald Trump absolutely dominating all of the 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.920 year ahead outlooks. Let's talk a little bit more about that, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.600 because Wall Street has its eyes laser focused on Trump's 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.720 return to the White House and trying to gauge what 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.320 to expect this year from his anticipated pro business policies, 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.399 but also his tough talk on global trade and general unpredictability. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.160 You can call it that. Bloomberg News has collated over 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.920 seven hundred key calls from more than fifty leading financial institutions, 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.720 and Bloomberg's needs to say. COVID is here to break 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.800 it all down. It's the subject of today's big Take, Denitza. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.200 It's great to have you with us since I made 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:37.960 this point, of course on open interest, so I'll make 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.600 it again. It's really hard to talk about twenty twenty 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.280 five without talking about Donald Trump. 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:46.520 Yeah, it's clearly the biggest word this year. Everything is 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:51.720 Donald Trump, Tariff's American exceptionalism. These are the worst we 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.760 sow through all those outlooks, which were compiled by Sam Palter. 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.840 Of course, and last year, the year before, we were 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.160 talking about hardline. We're talking so much about monetary policy. 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.520 We're talking about the economy, which is still an important 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:09.520 factor here, but definitely Donald Trump has taken center stage. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:11.880 What we have seen is a lot of people are 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:17.120 betting on American companies and are not pretty warming up 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.240 towards international companies despite the fact that they obviously are 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.839 a lot cheaper, but US assets are taking central stage. 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:31.720 JP Morgan says, US exceptionalism is getting reinforced. We're talking 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.160 about AI. We have a big call from bn Y 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.800 saying that AIS role in the world will surpass that 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:43.880 of other technologies that propel earlier periods of such growth. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.839 So we're seeing a lot of AI optimism. That comes 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:52.359 also with conscious calls of broading of the rally of 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.800 people saying that more and more companies use AI, hence 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:58.040 they will join that. 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.800 AI for Keral, It's a great piece. Check it out 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.640 by Bloomberg Sam Potter, Janisa Sikoba also working on that 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.040 along with many other folks of the Bloomberg News team. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:09.680 You can check it out now at Bloomberg dot com 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.919 slash Big Take. Well, let's now bring in Keith Buchanan, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.480 senior portfolio manager at Globalt Investments and has about three 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.760 billion dollars in assets under management. For more Keith, you 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.000 heard me mention the back to back years of gains 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.000 on the Nasdaq one hundred remarkable couple of years. Do 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.479 you think there's still room to run for megacap tech? 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.040 Hi, and thanks again for having me. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.840 We actually have been moving into more balanced stants over 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.159 the last couple of months, and we're really focused on 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.320 the growth versus value collision course, if you will, that's 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.039 set up for twenty twenty five among other actually you know, 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.360 carryous collision courses across our American economy and also for markets. 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.200 So we've moved into a more balance stamps because we 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.920 look at growth as this dominant really over the marketplace 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.000 for WILLI says a pronuncial crisis minus a few years, 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:03.520 most recently in twenty twenty. 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.000 Two, and at last phase. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.680 Of course, I've been moved by AI spending the story, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.000 but you questioning at what cost does that come at? 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:11.040 It? 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.839 Are we looking at valuation that grows into infinity and 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.360 what point does that price end the scenario that we're 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.840 now also the growth that's over to come over the 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.320 next couple of years. Also at what cost does this 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.800 AI spending and this productivity come. 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:29.960 Of course that's a boon to earnings, but does it 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:30.279 come in. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.120 Wage gains and workers That could cause a little more 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.800 consternation among the consumer and consumer spending. So we're balancing 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.120 all of those right now, and it led us to 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:40.840 a more balanced approach. Is how we look at the 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.479 US markets and not preferring growth over value any longer. 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.440 We actually have been in that stands for several years frior. 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.120 Well when it comes to big tech and when it 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:50.880 comes to the Magnificent seven. I think a lot of 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.640 people would agree with you on these stretched valuations. But 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.440 the pushback I keep hearing to that point is that 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:58.919 you have the earnings growth to back it up. That 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:03.760 basically the fund of mentals are justifying these eyewatering valuations. 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.880 And if you expect to see some of the momentum 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.719 behind big tech fade, are you saying that you'd expect 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:10.880 earnings to disappoint a bit in twenty twenty five. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.960 Not necessarily, And that's why we haven't gone underweight and growth. 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.760 We actually just in a neutral stance, if you will. 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.840 We don't see the case for that disappointment to come 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.680 in twenty twenty five, even twenty twenty six. As we 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.560 grow into like you mentioned, are grown into multiples that 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.720 seem lofty, you know a year and a half ago, 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:34.960 don't seem as lofty anymore today. But that maturation of 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.840 this growth phase and investment has to come at some 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:42.280 point where the market price is in fully the bowlt 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.160 suspending this flooding this marketplace. 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:46.120 Agree again, we don't feel like. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.240 These stocks are broken or any the part of the 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.600 story is is amiss at all. But we think that 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.200 growth actually could come more and sync with the value 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.080 as far as the performance over the next couple of 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.600 years as the market digests those valuations and time. 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:02.720 Well, let's talk a little bit more about value, because 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.240 of course value has broken a lot of hearts over 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.960 the past couple of years, and many expect that to continue. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.440 So you have the valuation piece looking good when it 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.800 comes to a lot of these value names, a lot 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.800 of these value indexes. But are you expecting to see 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.400 actually that earnings growth broadened out, especially if we are 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.480 in a higher for longer sort of environment where the 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.080 FED can't cut as much as maybe some have been open. 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.880 Okay, almost has to. And we've looked at this closely. 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.160 From a bottom of standpoint, the market expects earnings per 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.840 share growth of thirteen percent of the twenty twenty five 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.000 that's not as concentrated in the max seven as it 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.160 was in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three, and 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.880 especially in twenty twenty four as well, So that broadening 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.320 has to occur and evaluations just don't show that that 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.040 broadening is expected. If you look at names like financials 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.040 that start to appreciate some of that, and those stocks 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.560 have performed over the past twelve months. We look at 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.400 other spaces like that offer the opportunity for the valuations 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.600 to grow into a broadening of earnings that the marketing 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.440 spect from a bottom up standpoint, but from a top 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.520 down standpoint and also from an index standpoint, it really 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.960 hasn't really materialized in a lot of those value names 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:15.560 and those industries that traditionally are are categorized as value 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.160 orient and so we're really excited about just a balance 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:22.480 that that Arnie's growth could lead to performance and value sectors, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.839 and we feel like growth doesn't necessarily have to bleed 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:26.920 out in order for that to happen. 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:27.400 Keith. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.200 Over the last couple of years, really since the public 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.720 introduction of chat GPT, we've seen a lot of the 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.840 AI gains go to just a handful of companies, including 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:42.079 the megacaps, you know, hyperscalers and whatnot. I'm wondering when 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.720 we're starting to see those AI gains go to other 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.760 types of companies, like when is AI going to allow 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.120 Procter and gamble to sell more tied and toilet paper 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:53.400 with fewer people. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.720 We're starting to see actually some implementation of AI that 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:04.360 could benefit sectors and names and industries outside of the 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:05.319 Max seven already. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.520 You see that in healthcare started talking about how some. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:13.160 Development of drugs has accelerated and they feel like they 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.559 can be more efficient in how they allocate resources because 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.400 of artificial intelligence. They've implement it within those platforms. So 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.559 again that's the spending comes first, productivity games come next, 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.880 and we should see that materialize across the board. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:27.559 Again, that's the case. 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.839 For the spending, of course will grow to those names 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:35.400 that put this technology and implement this within economy. But 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.920 as all industries start to implement some level of higher 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.760 productivity that benefits names across the board, and those with 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:47.120 lower evaluations and theory should have a quicker move when 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.080 those earnings start to accelerate it and it. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.760 Will be fascinating to see when the investing timeline sort 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.560 of turns to more of those applications versus just the 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.880 hardware and the chip makers. But keys, we got to 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:58.920 leave it there. Great to kick off twenty twenty five 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.319 with you. That is Buchanan. He is senior portfolio manager 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.840 over at Global Investments. Now coming up, Tesla disappoints more 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.559 on the carmakers delivery miss Next, This is Bloomberg. 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.839 Tesla fourth quarter sales out today, the electric carmaker disappointing investors, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.640 posting an annual vehicle sales drop for the first time 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.439 in more than a decade. Joining US now is Bloomberg's 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.839 Detroit bureau chief David at Welch. David one point seventy 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.600 nine million vehicles sold in twenty twenty four fourth quarter 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.440 deliveries for to ninety five thousand, five hundred and seventy 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:48.880 Tesla stock taking a hit as the result. To what 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.839 can we attribute this decline to? I think it's just 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.120 purely greater competition. Whether it's in China where Bid and 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.680 the domestic EV players are doing very well with competitive product, 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.559 helped buy a lot of Chinese government subsidies. It's tougher 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.440 sledding there, and there's more competition in the US. You've 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.760 got a lot of new EV's out there from Hyundai, Kia, 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:13.839 General Motors. They're all pushing pretty hard here. GM's got 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.120 a pretty cheap one with the Equinox sales throw under 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.480 thirty five thousand. That's going to put pressure on the market. 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.240 And also, you know EV sales generally still some growth there, 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.960 but slower growth, So you have slower growth for the 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.760 total total industry and more players fighting for that piece 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.840 of the pie, and Tesla's not immune to that either. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.920 The other thing, look, Tesla's got this lineup of four 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.959 vehicles that can sell in pretty decent numbers, a niche 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.600 cyber truck, which has not set the world on fire 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.559 in terms of growth. Unless they get this cheaper model 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.760 to type of vehicle out there, they're probably not going 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.839 to see a lot of electric vehicle growth from them 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.920 in the US market, and they're going to have really 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:56.840 tough competition in Europe and China going forward, So it's 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.720 not a growth story on the EV side of their 0:12:58.760 --> 0:12:59.520 business right now. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.880 Maybe the hope is then that, of course Tesla, which 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.200 already is the market leader, would take share from some 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.200 of its competitors because Elon Musk on the latest earnings 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.400 call said that he sees twenty to thirty percent growth 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.880 this year, which seems optimistic. Are we hearing anywhere close 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.560 to those figures When you take a look at what 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.360 the cell side is actually. 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.160 Expecting the sale side's not expecting that. There isn't a 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.559 lot of credibility. We've seen a lot of skepticism over 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.280 the twenty to thirty percent growth. Now what we don't know. 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.400 Tesla's supposed to have this cheaper EV coming out this year. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.480 They famously missed their their targets for production and sales 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.800 all the time. But if it does come out it 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.920 is cheaper, that's where they would presumably get some growth. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.440 It's going to be really hard to steal that much 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.679 market share and less Tesla res or it's just some 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.600 really deep discounting. I mean, look, there's a wild card 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.480 here too, which is if Tesla's not reliant on government 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:56.559 subsidies the seventy five hundred tower tax break for evs 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.439 and the other companies are, maybe they can gain share 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.240 that way. But there's just not that much growth in 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.040 the EV market where I think they're going to see 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.839 twenty to thirty percent growth based off its US sales, 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.840 And again, the Chinese competition is just too tough for 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:11.280 them to get huge numbers there either. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.280 David a little closer to home here in the US, 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.040 is there a political risk given Elon Musk's close alliance 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.920 with President elect Donald Trump, and that it could alienate 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.280 potential folks who would say, you know, in another world, 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.080 I would have gone for a Tesla, but these days, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:25.560 no thanks. 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.160 Look, that phenomenon I think is real. I also think 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.840 it's kind of baked in already because Elon kind of 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.040 went to the right side of the political aisle some 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.640 time ago with the things he's been saying on X 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.800 and he's been working with Donald Trump for months now. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.960 There may be more of that coming. People who were 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.040 predisposed of buying avs, many of them are interested in 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.680 climate change and they buy them for that reason. Others 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.800 are not. But look, I think Elon has probably alienated 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.960 a certain kind of consumer. How big of an impact 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.520 that's having to quantify, but I think that does have 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:02.920 an effect for sure. 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.000 Well let's talk about the flip side of that, David, 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.560 because Okay, maybe the left leaning customer base of Tesla 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.880 doesn't want to buy more Tesla's, but there's a lot 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:13.760 of expectations and you can see that in the stock 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.840 price that a Donald Trump administration, the second Donald Trump administration, 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.440 is going to be good news for Tesla. I mean, 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.560 what are some of the actual policies that are potentially 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.360 on the table here that would benefit Tesla. 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.800 The big one, I think is the Trump administration's priority 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.960 of setting up a federal framework for autonomous vehicles. What's 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.720 really pushing this stock, I think to a large degree, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.720 is this idea that Tesla's not just an automaker in 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.920 the way that general motors are, dime where or BMW 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.560 or Toyota are. It's an AI company. It's a tech play, right, 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.320 and you can only do that if you do have robots, 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:50.960 you do have self driving cars. And without a federal 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.320 framework that enables somebody like Tesla to put a vehicle 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.080 on the road with no steering wheel and no braking, 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.840 accelerator pedals, totally robot driven, that's not going to happen. 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.000 Trump's the Trump administration will make it a priority. Elon 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.880 is camped out at Maro Lago trying to help write that, 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.720 I would assume. But anyway, he's going to have influence 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.960 that will help Tesla certainly, depending on how the rules 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.720 are done. And then with the other thing, Elon has said, 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.080 we don't need federal subsidies to sell our evs. It 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.480 would affect other companies more and he's probably right about that, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.600 But how much getting rid of those would help Tesla 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:32.040 sell more evs that it remains to be seen. I 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:33.640 think it's tough on them to get rid of those 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.200 incentives as well, because one that's free money to consumers 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.400 that they don't get anymore, and to Tesla might have 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.680 to discount more. So, even if they do steal market share, 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.600 it might be less profitable share if they have to 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.600 have big discounts in order to sell those vehicles. So 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.720 the bottom line is any kind of tax policy on 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:57.480 evs could benefit Elon if he has an outsized voice 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.440 in crafting it to help his company. So, you know, 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:02.840 we don't know what that looks like, but that certainly 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:03.440 could happen. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:03.920 Well. 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.200 Tesla sharre is currently down almost six percent. David Welts, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:09.920 thank you for that. Let's turn to the other major 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.119 Tesla news that we're following this morning, and that is 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.240 Elon Musk saying that the explosion of a Tesla cybertruck 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:18.119 outside of the Trump Las Vegas hotel was probably an 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.000 act of terrorism. The driver was killed and seven people 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.560 suffered minor injuries. For more, let's break it down with 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.040 Wloomberg's Mike Sheppard joining us now. And this is a 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:29.800 developing situation, of course, Mike. But what do we know 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:30.240 so far? 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.600 Well, what we know is that this vehicle, like the 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:39.000 vehicle used in the New Orleans terror attack, was rented 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.840 via the Touro app. But the company itself maintains that 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:47.480 there is no connection whatsoever between them that they can see. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.000 Neither the suspect in New Orleans nor the man who 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:55.240 rented the cyber truck that exploded in Las Vegas had 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.520 any kind of a criminal background that would have shown 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.960 up in the checks that the company run. What we 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.399 know about the man he has been identified in Las 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.639 Vegas is that he is identified as an Army reservist 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.280 his on leave from the service temporarily. He was from 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:16.440 Colorado Springs. And we don't know yet what exactly the 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:21.119 cause was of this explosion in Las Vegas. Elon Musk 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.080 has said on x he posted last night that he 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.399 thought it looked more like and the company had concluded, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:31.760 but did not offer more evidence of an explosion related 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.960 to either what he said were fireworks or perhaps a 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.720 bomb in the bed or back of the truck, rather 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.280 than a malfunction by the batteries. We've seen in some 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.040 other Tesla vehicles. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.879 Mike, As Katie said, this is a developing story. We 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.560 don't know much yet, but I'm curious what has come 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.280 out at this point. Do we know how, if any 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.360 the ignition actually happened, how whatever was in the back 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.280 of the truck ignited, And do we know if the 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.879 vehicle's battery earned or if fire officials were able to 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:04.560 put out the fire before that happened. 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:10.000 Those are really good and still very open questions, Tim 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.119 that we're waiting for authorities to shed more light on. 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:15.840 We have heard, of course from Elon mus the world's 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.640 richest man and one of the co founders of Tesla 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.159 and now the owner of x laying this out for 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.359 us on social media, but the detailed account from authorities, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.840 including the Las Vegas Fire Department and FBI, which is 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.639 also investigating this incident, we still do not have a 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.399 full accounting of what had happened, including the kind of 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.359 forensic questions that you're asking now, So we'll be eager 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.960 to hear from law enforcement and safety authorities there as 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:44.639 we get more. 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.120 Answers, again, more questions than answers that we have right now, Mike, 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.399 But I'm curious about potential similarities between what happened in 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.760 New Orleans and what happened in Las Vegas. The tech 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.679 angle here with vehicles rented on the app turo, the 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:03.399 connection of both being members or former members of used 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.119 armed forces. What are similarities we have right now? 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:10.040 You know, those are similarities, but authorities would be quick 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.040 to caution that they are all coincidental. Many people use 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:19.080 this Touro app to rent vehicles. Conversing with a friend 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.159 this morning, they happened to note that, Hey, you know, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.000 I have an acquaintance who rented a cyber truck in 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:29.639 Las Vegas about the same time. So it is not 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:34.280 an uncommon thing for people to be using something like this. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.840 If it were Avis or Hertz, I don't know if 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.360 we'd be asking sort of the same kinds of questions. 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.199 And again, when it comes to prior military service, we 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.439 have seen this again and again that sometimes actors in 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.399 these mass casualty events, and we can think all the 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:55.000 way back to nineteen ninety five, the bomb that took 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.399 out the Edward R. Murrah building in Oklahoma City that 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.399 was perpetrated by two men who had previously served in 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.119 the US Army so again coincidence, but we don't know 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:10.800 whether there is any connection valid or viable whatsoever, or 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.760 even if what happened in Las Vegas was an accident 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.280 or a deliberate and malicious act. 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.399