Speaker 1: Hey there everybody happy saturday it is saturday august 29th
Speaker 1: and this is our third and final installment of our
Speaker 1: fighting 101 series and this is an interesting topic resentful
Speaker 1: martyrs do you have someone who is a resentful martyr
Speaker 1: in your life do you have any idea of what
Speaker 1: that might be babe.
Speaker 2: A resentful martyr. A martyr is one always thinking they're
Speaker 2: taking some kind of a sacrifice, resentful. So yes, someone
Speaker 2: who sacrifices and is pissed about it and lets you
Speaker 2: know it.
Speaker 3: You kind of nailed it.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: So psychiatrists say this is actually a subcategory of narcissism.
Speaker 3: This is basically a narcissist in disguise.
Speaker 1: Someone really hard You wouldn't necessarily think initially this person
Speaker 1: falls into that category, but they basically make grand gestures,
Speaker 1: like in performative sacrifice. Performative sacrifice. Yet all of that
Speaker 1: grand gesturing and performative self-sacrifice is actually self-serving.
Speaker 2: Are there examples of this you're going to have?
Speaker 1: Oh, yes.
Speaker 2: Okay, good. We're going to have to get to it.
Speaker 2: I think this is fun.
Speaker 3: Do you know one?
Speaker 2: I have known one, yes. Not now?
Speaker 3: Well, they're no longer in my life. It is not you.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying, I think we can say, like, well,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't assume, but I think we can have some
Speaker 1: fun with this one because, and we always can have
Speaker 1: fun with it, but I would never, this is not you.
Speaker 3: And I don't think this is me.
Speaker 1: You would have to tell me because I don't want
Speaker 1: to pretend to know how I'm perceived.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to start a fight, but it
Speaker 2: won't because I've learned how to handle all conflicts today.
Speaker 1: All right, so resentful martyrs do things for you whether
Speaker 1: you like it or not. They're not necessarily... loud or
Speaker 1: flashy or arrogant. So again, they're kind of hard to spot.
Speaker 1: They appear nice, helpful and giving, but their actions actually
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with you at all and everything
Speaker 1: to do with them as getting validation and attention. Um,
Speaker 1: their help is always on their terms, and sometimes it's
Speaker 1: even against what you've expressly said you don't want or
Speaker 1: you don't need. Like a surprise birthday party would.
Speaker 3: Be, for me, a clear example.
Speaker 1: Someone knows you don't like that, and they do it
Speaker 1: anyway to say, look what I just.
Speaker 3: Did for you.
Speaker 1: Bringing big gestures in front of lots of people so
Speaker 1: that everyone sees how great of a husband or a
Speaker 1: boyfriend or a wife or a friend you are, because
Speaker 1: look at me, look what.
Speaker 3: I'm doing for you.
Speaker 2: Yes, we've seen this play out before.
Speaker 3: This is all landed, right?
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Some of the signs are, yes, they do nice things
Speaker 1: for you, but strings are always attached.
Speaker 3: Like what? Okay.
Speaker 1: So it will be... They want something from you. They
Speaker 1: need something from you. Maybe you didn't even ask for
Speaker 1: it or they want it, but you know the act
Speaker 1: of kindness will somehow be used against you as a
Speaker 1: bargaining chip, emotional blackmail. And if you don't accept it
Speaker 1: or you object to it in any way, they will
Speaker 1: absolutely go bonkers on you.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was imagining a fight in which a spouse
Speaker 2: is saying, after all I did for you and I
Speaker 2: put together that party for you, And you're going to
Speaker 2: do this? Yes.
Speaker 3: That's exactly it. It's used as emotional blackmail later.
Speaker 1: Like they're almost putting it in their I'm an awesome
Speaker 1: person category to be used against you if you ever
Speaker 1: have a complaint about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're collecting scores. They're building up the resume.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: Here's some examples. You asked for examples.
Speaker 1: I got plenty.
Speaker 3: And this might land for a lot of folks.
Speaker 1: Women, this really feels like a female thing, and I
Speaker 1: have experienced this. They give you a bag of clothes
Speaker 1: that you have no use for.
Speaker 2: A bag of clothes? Like, here, I've.
Speaker 1: Got these clothes that no longer fit me.
Speaker 3: This is a girl thing.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I didn't even want these clothes. And then if you
Speaker 1: don't wear them or you don't like them, they're offended.
Speaker 1: They prepare some food for you. Or they make some
Speaker 1: reservation at a place they know you don't like. And
Speaker 1: then you're expected to go anyway. Like, I don't like seafood.
Speaker 1: And they know you don't like seafood. And they take
Speaker 1: you to Joe's, you.
Speaker 3: Know, crab house.
Speaker 1: And you're like... And then they'd get really upset if
Speaker 1: you didn't want to do that. It's not about the act.
Speaker 1: It's about the expectations they place on the act. They...
Speaker 1: They want and are trying to get a reaction from
Speaker 1: you that will make them feel good. They do what
Speaker 1: they want to do, and then they expect you to
Speaker 1: react in a way that gives them pleasure. So it's
Speaker 1: a really massively manipulative.
Speaker 3: Way of going about your life.
Speaker 2: Sounds twisted.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 1: And then they say, if you are unclear, like, hmm,
Speaker 1: do I know this person? I think this person might
Speaker 1: be doing these kinds of things to me.
Speaker 3: They say.
Speaker 1: You'll know it when you say no. When you finally say, no,
Speaker 1: thank you. No thanks on those clothes. No thanks on
Speaker 1: preparing a meal for me. I did not want to eat.
Speaker 1: No thanks to some vacation you planned to a destination.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go. They actually start resenting everyone
Speaker 1: who refuses to participate in what they want to do.
Speaker 3: They'll get angry.
Speaker 1: They'll tell you you're ungrateful and They'll tell you you're demanding, unkind,
Speaker 1: or mean. They may give you the silent treatment or
Speaker 1: one-word answers. They may mope and act like a victim.
Speaker 1: They may even tell you you.
Speaker 3: Don't appreciate them.
Speaker 1: But I do think that this is something that you
Speaker 1: can recognize on the receiving end. I wonder how many
Speaker 1: people who are on the other side of it actually
Speaker 1: know this is what they're doing.
Speaker 2: Who wants to admit that? Because everybody who's thinking of
Speaker 2: something that they've done right now As they're listening, it
Speaker 2: might be something they've done. They are probably, the next
Speaker 2: thing they're doing is justifying and saying, no, not me.
Speaker 2: That was really out of the goodness of my heart.
Speaker 2: I didn't want anything in return. Okay, it's okay to
Speaker 2: ask yourself a question. Nobody's, you're not the worst person
Speaker 2: in the world.
Speaker 1: Yes, and you know what? I think people get so scared.
Speaker 1: I worry when I see an article like this. Yes,
Speaker 1: you absolutely can recognize when it's happened to you or
Speaker 1: if someone in your life presents.
Speaker 3: These types of behaviors. But it's so hard to recognize
Speaker 3: it in ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I think the interesting thing is if you've had
Speaker 1: this relationship where you've been on the receiving end, you
Speaker 1: do then have to ask yourself when you're doing something
Speaker 1: kind for someone else, do you want credit? And then, yes,
Speaker 1: I have absolutely done that where you make a meal.
Speaker 1: You want someone to tell you, thank you.
Speaker 3: That was so good.
Speaker 1: You buy somebody a gift for Christmas. You want them
Speaker 1: to tell you what a great gift it was and
Speaker 1: how much they love it. That's all in all of us,
Speaker 1: I think, to a certain degree. And I'll fully cop
Speaker 1: to that. But do you take it to the next level?
Speaker 1: Do you hold it against them if they didn't react
Speaker 1: the way you wanted them to? Do you hold it
Speaker 1: against them if they didn't give you some sort of
Speaker 1: gratitude or compliment in return for your gesture. That is
Speaker 1: something we can all work on. I think we all
Speaker 1: might have, or some of us might have, a little
Speaker 1: bit of this in us. And then, of course, there's
Speaker 1: the extreme where, yes, you are given this label, resentful martyr.
Speaker 1: But I just thought this was interesting to recognize, but
Speaker 1: also to self-reflect in moments about your intentions behind doing
Speaker 1: kind things.
Speaker 2: Interesting. It's okay to say thank you when somebody does
Speaker 2: something kind.
Speaker 3: I mean, you should. Obviously, showing gratitude is the kind
Speaker 3: thing to do.
Speaker 1: But you have to ask yourself, if you didn't get
Speaker 1: the reaction you wanted and you get angry about it, ooh.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's, yeah.
Speaker 1: What was your actual intention behind, and that's a hard
Speaker 1: thing to ask yourself. It's funny, I even think about, like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to bring this back to Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: but I don't know why it just popped in my head,
Speaker 1: this engraving his name on the Kennedy Center, because he
Speaker 1: wants credit for restoring.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 2: No, this is an apt example.
Speaker 3: Yes, he wants credit for restoring.
Speaker 1: The Kennedy Center, and so he wants his name engraved
Speaker 1: so he gets forever, like, centuries later, credit for doing
Speaker 1: something good for.
Speaker 2: The Kennedy Center.
Speaker 3: That's a really good example.
Speaker 2: That's a really, really good example. That's a damn shame.
Speaker 2: But that is what that, man, a resentful martyr. And saying,
Speaker 2: if you don't let me put my name on it,
Speaker 2: we're going to tear the damn thing down.
Speaker 1: And that is one of the signs. They will get angry.
Speaker 1: They start resenting people who refuse to participate in their dynamic.
Speaker 2: I will destroy this memorial if you don't put my.
Speaker 3: They keep a log or a ledger of who owes them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: These are some of the signs.
Speaker 2: We have a resentful martyr in chief.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: This is not where this episode was supposed to go.
Speaker 1: No, but the interesting thing is all of these relationship
Speaker 1: episodes that we've been doing today... Yes, of course they
Speaker 1: apply to your romantic relationships or even your friendships, but
Speaker 1: they also, we can see them in politics. We can
Speaker 1: see them in our workplaces. These dynamics exist in every relationship,
Speaker 1: even if it's president to his people who elected him.
Speaker 1: These dynamics exist, and recognizing them in other people is
Speaker 1: one thing, but recognizing even smaller tendencies in yourself is
Speaker 1: freeing because you can say, oh, damn, on a much
Speaker 1: smaller level, I've done that. I've felt that. What is
Speaker 1: that about me? And I don't want to be like that.
Speaker 1: And yes, the most glaring example just might be our
Speaker 1: own president.
Speaker 2: I'm still laughing. No, that's an exact 100% perfect example
Speaker 2: of what you're talking about, man.
Speaker 1: Exactly. All right. So when we come back, we have
Speaker 1: some tips from the experts on dealing with a resentful martyr.
Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ on our part
Speaker 1: three of Fighting 101. We're talking about resentful martyrs and look,
Speaker 1: they could pop up in many different ways in your
Speaker 1: life and you could even be one yourself or be
Speaker 1: a version of one yourself. Don't want to I know
Speaker 1: nobody wants to admit that they have narcissistic tendencies, but
Speaker 1: upon many years of therapy, my therapist likes to say
Speaker 1: all of us have a little touch of narcissism in us.
Speaker 3: We're born with it.
Speaker 1: We are. It's survival instincts and we have to develop
Speaker 1: beyond it. We have to, first of all, recognize the
Speaker 1: traits in us and do better, as you like to say, babe.
Speaker 2: We're all narcissists. Is that what?
Speaker 3: We all have tendencies.
Speaker 2: Tendencies. Narcissistic tendencies.
Speaker 1: We all have narcissistic tendencies. And I think we throw
Speaker 1: that label around to other people. How many people will
Speaker 1: actually say, yeah, I'm a narcissist?
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to admit that.
Speaker 2: Sounds terrible. Sounds bad.
Speaker 3: Nobody wants to admit that.
Speaker 2: But it's okay to say I have tendencies. I'm narcissist-lite.
Speaker 1: But I don't think many people would even want to
Speaker 1: admit that. They're so quick to point the finger at
Speaker 1: other people. But the only way we all do better
Speaker 1: and get better is to actually reflect inward and stop.
Speaker 1: Every time you feel yourself blaming someone else for how
Speaker 1: you feel or blaming someone else, that is the moment
Speaker 1: we have to say, wait a minute, what's my role
Speaker 1: in all of this? So anyway, the tips on dealing with, yes,
Speaker 1: say you do have, like, oh my God, I know
Speaker 1: that person. How do you deal with Or manage a
Speaker 1: resentful martyr.
Speaker 2: With the president. Okay, go.
Speaker 3: The first thing you.
Speaker 1: Do is you just have to recognize what's really going on, okay?
Speaker 1: So some of it is just saying, wow, that's happening.
Speaker 1: So that gives you the first step. The next one
Speaker 1: is to recognize that conditional help, and especially when it's unsolicited,
Speaker 1: is a debt, not a deposit. So don't feel like
Speaker 1: you have to accept this help. with strings attached, that
Speaker 1: have conditions attached. Don't look at it as someone doing
Speaker 1: something nice for you. Recognize it for what it is.
Speaker 1: They're trying to get something from you.
Speaker 2: I'm paying for this later.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: You know it when it happens. Exactly.
Speaker 1: And then you also have to recognize, because people get confused,
Speaker 1: that this is love.
Speaker 3: And it's not.
Speaker 1: It's that person trying to gain leverage against you. They're
Speaker 1: not trying to show you love. They're trying to gain leverage.
Speaker 1: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: Sounds like love. So that's exactly what love always is.
Speaker 2: We're trying to balance out who loves who more and
Speaker 2: all this and who has the power in a relationship. Okay.
Speaker 2: That's not love. That's leverage. which is love. Okay.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: And it's funny.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm just joking. I'm just joking.
Speaker 1: No, but the number one tip, and I underlined this,
Speaker 1: do not call them out.
Speaker 2: For being narcissists?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: Do not call them out. Do I need to repeat that? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Caitlin Collins, stop that stuff. Don't challenge them.
Speaker 3: It doesn't work.
Speaker 2: Don't challenge a relentless, what, martyr?
Speaker 3: A resentful martyr.
Speaker 2: I said relentless.
Speaker 3: Well, you could be a relentless resentful martyr. Yes, and
Speaker 3: that's so funny you point that out. Look what happens.
Speaker 3: And that is when you know.
Speaker 1: Watch the press. Somebody question him. Challenge him.
Speaker 3: How does he react?
Speaker 2: Explosively.
Speaker 3: And there you go.
Speaker 2: Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Speaker 1: They say, this will only lead to unproductive conflict and...
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of narcissists want anyway. That landed
Speaker 1: for me. They put themselves in this position because they
Speaker 1: actually need conflict. It gives them a purpose. It gives
Speaker 1: them something to fight against. And in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: it gives them power. And so by calling them out,
Speaker 1: you actually empower them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, narcissists don't sit in corners by themselves. They need
Speaker 2: to be charged. They do. They need to be fed,
Speaker 2: and that fuel comes from us.
Speaker 1: Yes, they get a payoff from you fighting back. From
Speaker 1: you criticizing them, they love it. Now they have something
Speaker 1: to actually bite on, and now they've got a purpose
Speaker 1: to fight you.
Speaker 3: This is what they say.
Speaker 1: So instead of calling them out, you literally have to accept...
Speaker 1: that this is who they are. And you have to
Speaker 1: be realistic then about the relationship and recognizing whether or
Speaker 1: not you want that person in your life.
Speaker 3: And those are the steps. It's not about calling them out.
Speaker 3: It's about being realistic.
Speaker 2: Okay. Once you use the president example, I can't get
Speaker 2: past that. So I apply what you just said to
Speaker 2: the president.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: So we have to be realistic and If we.
Speaker 2: Want to continue a relationship with him.
Speaker 3: And if you don't want.
Speaker 1: To continue a relationship with him, you remove them from
Speaker 1: your life.
Speaker 2: So no third term.
Speaker 3: When they're president of the.
Speaker 1: United States, that's an incredibly difficult thing to do. But
Speaker 1: maybe the best thing to do is to.
Speaker 3: Change the channel. But anyway, yes.
Speaker 1: And it's fun to look at it from a non-romantic perspective.
Speaker 1: But even for me, this has friendships. I feel like
Speaker 1: female friendships, a lot of times, this is.
Speaker 3: That's been my experience.
Speaker 1: That you don't realize it in the moment, but all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you say, wait a minute, is that
Speaker 1: what's going on here? And just recognizing it. And then
Speaker 1: I just think also correcting any behavior within yourself. If
Speaker 1: you have a tendency to have some of these feelings,
Speaker 1: actually get curious about them. If you're questioning yourself, if
Speaker 1: you're willing to be self-reflective, by the way, you're not
Speaker 1: a narcissist. If you're willing to say, wow, maybe I
Speaker 1: am doing that, You're not a narcissist. I think some
Speaker 1: people get worried. And then I had someone say, if
Speaker 1: you're actually questioning whether or not you are one, you're
Speaker 1: not because you're actually being willing to be self-reflective.
Speaker 3: So does anyone out there is like, oh, no, is
Speaker 3: that me?
Speaker 1: If you're actually asking yourself that, chances are you're not.
Speaker 2: But if anybody listening said, that's not me.
Speaker 3: Then maybe you are. Exactly.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 3: And with that, everyone, we always appreciate you listening to us.
Speaker 3: I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes.
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon.