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Speaker 1: Hey, Jorge, have you been enjoying the donut revolution?

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Speaker 2: There's a revolution? Like, are donuts planning to overthrow the government.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's more like a donut renaissance. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: all these creative donuts with cereal on top, or with

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Speaker 1: croissant dough, or with wacky flavors. Though I'm guessing you

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Speaker 1: probably prefer the original vanilla.

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Speaker 2: I enjoy a good crow nut and also a plane donut.

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Speaker 2: I think you have to be careful, otherwise you might

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Speaker 2: get a heart revolution.

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Speaker 1: I was recently tempted by a chicken and waffles donut.

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Speaker 2: Whoa is that like dinner, breakfast, and dessert in one bite.

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Speaker 1: You never even have to leave the house and you

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Speaker 1: can't afterwards.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you might not be able to. How about a

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Speaker 2: universe donut? Have they made those? That's the donut version

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Speaker 2: of the everything bagel cosmic donut. Then you'll be everything, everywhere,

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Speaker 2: all at once. I am Orge Mack, cartoonis and the

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Speaker 2: author of Oliver's Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I don't remember the last time

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Speaker 1: I actually ate a donut.

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Speaker 2: Wait, what that's kind of sad. Donuts are great.

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Speaker 1: I hear they're pretty tasty, but I don't actually eat

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Speaker 1: breakfast or in lunch anymore. So there's a whole category

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Speaker 1: of foods I just don't get to have.

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Speaker 2: Wait, you don't eat desserts either.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I eat plenty of dessert after dinner, but it's

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Speaker 1: not very often people serve donuts for dessert.

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Speaker 2: You can have donuts at any time of the day.

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Speaker 1: That's why I was looking at that chicken waffle donut.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, you can have it all in

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Speaker 2: one one bite, one treat.

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Speaker 1: Day is nutrition or at least calories.

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Speaker 2: More of the calories. Yeah, it's me seen some vegetables though.

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Speaker 2: It should be like chicken waffles salad.

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Speaker 1: On a donut, right, chicken broccoliate donut.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, chicken pot pie donut. You just invented

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Speaker 2: the next food truck, crazy chicken ponuts.

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Speaker 1: Chicken potpoury.

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Speaker 2: That'll smell good too. But anyways, welcome to our podcast

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Speaker 2: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio

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Speaker 2: in which we try.

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Speaker 1: To serve up the entire universe, all of its delicious,

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Speaker 1: creamy nature and mysterious feelings to you, not on a donut,

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Speaker 1: but in your ear. We think that everything that's out

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Speaker 1: there in the universe deserves to be explored and questioned

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Speaker 1: and understood as best as possible. We don't shy away

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Speaker 1: from the things that we don't understand. We embrace that

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Speaker 1: ignorance and take you right up to the forefront of

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Speaker 1: human knowledge.

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Speaker 2: That's right. We try to glaze the doughnut of your

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Speaker 2: brain by not glazing over all of the amazing details

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Speaker 2: that the universe has to offer and all of the

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Speaker 2: crazy mysteries that are out there still left to be resolved.

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Speaker 1: Because the questions about the universe are not just for

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Speaker 1: particle physicists and cosmologists in fancy offices or not so

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Speaker 1: fancy offices, as the case may be. Is for everybody

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Speaker 1: to wonder about the universe, and curiosity is totally democratic.

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Speaker 1: Everybody can ask questions, everybody can make progress, everybody can

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Speaker 1: push the boundaries of human understanding, and everybody deserves to understand.

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Speaker 2: Well, it sort of depends on where you live, though, doesn't.

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Speaker 1: It how fancy your office is.

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Speaker 2: You mean, I mean, whether you live in North Korea?

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Speaker 1: Perhaps, Hm, Well, I think those people deserve to understand

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Speaker 1: the universe, even if they're not allowed to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and everyone deserves donuts as well, which are

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Speaker 2: part of the universe, and maybe even they might be

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Speaker 2: the shape of the universe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, are you trying to trigger a donut inspired revolution

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Speaker 1: in North Korea?

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Speaker 2: You know whatever?

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Speaker 1: That wasn't to know?

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Speaker 2: If it f I do that makes it happen. Let's

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 1: You gotta be careful now. We don't want to get

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Speaker 1: hacked by North Korea.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what would they find though in our files?

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Speaker 1: Boys, secrets about the universe.

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Speaker 2: Don't think we're keeping those secrets and saving them for

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Speaker 2: a later podcast.

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Speaker 1: The puns that were so bad we didn't even use

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Speaker 1: them on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: There's no just thing as a bad pun, Danyl. I

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Speaker 2: think that's the definition of a pun. If it's good,

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Speaker 2: it's not really a pun. It's a good joke.

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Speaker 1: I dare you to hack us North Korea and find those.

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Speaker 2: Terror puns to hack Daniel please. I do have some

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Speaker 2: secrets I don't want out there. But yeah, like you said,

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Speaker 2: it all starts with questions, and everyone can ask questions,

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Speaker 2: including our listeners.

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Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your questions. If you are listening

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Speaker 1: to the podcast and something doesn't quite make sense to you,

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Speaker 1: or you're just walking down the street contemplating the universe

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Speaker 1: and something bumps in your brain, please reach out to

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Speaker 1: us to question at Danielandjorge dot com. Will you right

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Speaker 1: back to everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just don't bump into any cars, into any potholes.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, we like to take questions here on the podcast,

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Speaker 2: and so today on the program we'll be tackling listener

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Speaker 2: questions number fifty eight.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much to everybody who sends in their questions.

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Speaker 1: It's delightful to read your thoughts about the universe. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes I ask people to send me a recording of

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Speaker 1: their questions so we can talk about it here on

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Speaker 1: the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so today we have three great questions from listeners.

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Speaker 2: The first one is about the shape of planets. There's

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Speaker 2: one about universe changing quantum events, and there's also a

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Speaker 2: question about extremely massive and extremely old galaxies. So let's

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Speaker 2: jump right in. Our first question comes from Eric from

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Speaker 2: the Netherlands.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Daniel and Hore. Eric here from the Netherlands. I

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Speaker 3: have a funk question. Should I think about donut planets?

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Speaker 3: So me and my friend were talking about space and

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Speaker 3: planets and what shapes they could take, and so he

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Speaker 3: pointed out that he saw an article once about how

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Speaker 3: planets could have a torah shape or a donut and

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Speaker 3: be stable. I recall as well seeing that paper, but

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Speaker 3: I tried to think about how that would work, and

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Speaker 3: I just I realized I couldn't really figured it out.

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Speaker 3: So I was wondering what you guys had to say

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Speaker 3: about that, like, how would a donut shape planet evolve

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Speaker 3: or like be created. Yeah, we'd love to hear you

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Speaker 3: guys thoughts. Thank you so much and keep making your

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Speaker 3: awesome podcast.

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Speaker 2: All right, do you think Eric was just hungry here?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well Eric is in the Netherlands, so who knows

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Speaker 1: what sort of substances he was under the influence.

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Speaker 2: Of his friends thinking, Oh boy, I think that's an

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Speaker 2: answer them reference.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think it is.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a whole other there's a whole rest

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Speaker 2: of the country that's not associated with drugs, Danue.

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Speaker 1: I just said substances. You said drugs. Donuts might be substances,

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Speaker 1: that's right, sure, high on gleazing sugar or something.

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Speaker 2: Oh I see, yeah, yeah, well, sniffing some tulips I'm.

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Speaker 1: Sure, but it is a really fun question that goes

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Speaker 1: to the heart of like how do planets form? And

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Speaker 1: are the planets in our Solar system weird? Are there

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Speaker 1: weirder planets out there in the universe? What's the sort

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Speaker 1: of limit of planet topology?

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Speaker 2: Mm? Like what determines the shape of a planet?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly, Like why are most planets spheres? And are

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Speaker 1: other shapes possible? Spheres come make sense because gravity is

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Speaker 1: the thing that determines the shape of planets. Remember, planets

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Speaker 1: come together from little bits of rock, basically cosmic dust

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Speaker 1: and gas and ice that gravity has pulled together. Before

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Speaker 1: we had a Solar system, there was a massive cloud

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Speaker 1: of these ingredients of the Solar System. Some events, some

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Speaker 1: spark caused a gravitational runaway that formed the Sun, and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the materials that was orbiting too fast

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Speaker 1: to fall in continued to orbit in a plane which

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Speaker 1: then gathered itself together into asteroids and planets and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. So it's gravity that shapes the whole Solar

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Speaker 1: System and gravity that tells us the shape of the planet.

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Speaker 2: Right. Without gravity, you wouldn't have planets, right, or anything

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Speaker 2: out there in the universe.

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Speaker 1: Without gravity, we would still be in the dark ages

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Speaker 1: of the universe. Very very early on, protons and electrons

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Speaker 1: found each other and became neutral hydrogen, and they were

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Speaker 1: just dark neutral hydrogen filling the universe. It was gravity

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Speaker 1: that pulled that together, made the first stars, which shot

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Speaker 1: out radiation and reionized at the universe and made it exciting.

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Speaker 2: M yeah, I guess it. Just the universe would just

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Speaker 2: be a giant soup if it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: For gravity, a big dark soup.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, I guess the question then might be

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Speaker 2: what caused it to a planet? Like, how do you

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Speaker 2: define what a planet it is?

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Speaker 1: Oh man, that is a whole rabbit hole. You really

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Speaker 1: want to go there?

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Speaker 2: Oh, they got twenty minutes, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: The answer is it's complicated and inconsistent. There's several definitions

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Speaker 1: of a planet, depending on which international Astronomical Union you

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Speaker 1: subscribe to.

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Speaker 2: There are multiple ones. There are multiple ones, yes, like

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Speaker 2: how many?

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Speaker 1: Oh man? I have not surveyed them recently, but I

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Speaker 1: remember them disagreeing about some borderline cases. But the basic

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Speaker 1: idea is that you have some objects.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I'm super curious about this union. So like astronomers

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Speaker 2: have unions like they're like associations, like clubs or like

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Speaker 2: you know, government bodies.

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Speaker 1: They're more like professional societies. You know. They get together,

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Speaker 1: they eat stale cookies, they argue about who's a planet,

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Speaker 1: who's not a planet? You know. They build an International

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Speaker 1: Astronomical Union, which is not a union in the sense

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Speaker 1: that they don't like collectively bargain for astronomers rights or anything.

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Speaker 1: They just get together and talk about stuff.

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Speaker 2: I see, And what's the competing organization.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's the astronomers in the IAU, and then there

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Speaker 1: are planetary scientists that have other organizations that have their

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Speaker 1: own definitions.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, generally what's the general definition?

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Speaker 1: Though? The general definition is a large, rounded astronomical body

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Speaker 1: that's not a star or it's remnant. It's something that

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Speaker 1: has cleared its path and its orbit around the star.

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Speaker 2: M and so it can be made out of anything, right,

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be rocks. It can also be

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Speaker 2: liquid or gases.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be made out of ice, It could

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Speaker 1: be made out of diamond, It could be made out

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Speaker 1: of donuts.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, WHOA, how about chicken and waffles.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the IAU has taken a stance on that.

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Speaker 1: But I don't see a reason why you can't that.

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Speaker 2: That might be the hair that breaks the camel's back.

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Speaker 2: There'll be so much disagreement, they'll disunionize.

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Speaker 1: Mm hm. And so the thing that makes these planets

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Speaker 1: is gravity. And if it was just gravity, then all

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Speaker 1: these planets would be spheres because gravity likes to roll

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Speaker 1: things downhill. And if you have a sphere with a

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Speaker 1: bump on it, gravity will want to pull that bump down.

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Speaker 1: And so if you only have gravity, then planets should

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Speaker 1: naturally become spheres. It's like the lowest energy state for

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Speaker 1: a big blob of stuff. Planets also do other things.

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Speaker 1: They spin, Like the Earth itself is not actually a

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Speaker 1: perfect sphere because it's spinning and that changes the shape

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Speaker 1: of the planet.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wait, are you saying the Earth is not round.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying the Earth is flat, but the Earth

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Speaker 1: is not a perfect sphere. It's an ellipsoid because its

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Speaker 1: spin makes it bulge at the edges.

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Speaker 2: Like theypical force. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Essentially a counter acts gravity. For example, you weigh

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Speaker 1: less at the equator than you do at the poles.

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Speaker 2: How bulgy is the Earth?

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Speaker 1: The radius of the Earth is like twenty ish kilometers

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Speaker 1: different at the poles and at the equator, So it's

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Speaker 1: not a tiny effect.

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Speaker 2: Isn't the Earth like twelve thousand kilometers in diameter? It's

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Speaker 2: we're talking about like a zero point one percent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's big compared to me or you or your

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Speaker 1: house or your breakfast, and it's small compared to the

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Speaker 1: radius of the Earth, so you might not even notice it,

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Speaker 1: Like if you're holding the Earth in your hand, you

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Speaker 1: probably couldn't detect it.

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Speaker 2: Mmmm, well, I guess going back to Eric's question, his

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Speaker 2: question was, can you have a planet that's not shaped

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Speaker 2: like a giant ball? Can you maybe have a planet

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Speaker 2: that is shaped like a doughnut or a trus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really cool question, and people have been

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Speaker 1: thinking about this for a long time. There's a long

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Speaker 1: history a smart physicists thinking about stable gravitational configurations. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: as you spin the planet faster and faster, you can

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Speaker 1: make more and more interesting shapes. If there's no spin,

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Speaker 1: you basically can only have a sphere. But if you

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Speaker 1: spin it you can make stable shapes that are not spheres.

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Speaker 2: But aren't all of those shapes basically like oblongs or

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Speaker 2: like squish balls.

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Speaker 1: Yes and no. Certainly ellipsoids are possible, And as you

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Speaker 1: spin the planet it gets fatter and fat, and then

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Speaker 1: eventually it might even break up and you start like

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Speaker 1: losing stuff into outer space. But according to the calculations,

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Speaker 1: you can also have a torus. You can have a doughnut,

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Speaker 1: which is gravitationally stable if it's spinning at the right speed.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, but I guess maybe it isn't another big factor

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Speaker 2: what the planet is made out of. Like it's made

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Speaker 2: out of gas, it probably can't hold any other shape

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Speaker 2: other than a sphere cannon.

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Speaker 1: It turns out to not be very important if it's

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Speaker 1: big enough, because if it's big enough like the typical

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Speaker 1: sizes of planets or even something like the Moon or larger,

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Speaker 1: then the gravity in the spin overwhelm any material strength.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter what it's made out of. You

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Speaker 1: can think about this as like a drop of liquid, essentially,

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Speaker 1: whose shape is completely controlled by its spin and by

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Speaker 1: its gravity, not at all by its surface tension, because

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Speaker 1: like the material strength of rock is tiny compared to

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Speaker 1: the gravitational force of the whole Earth.

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Speaker 2: Meaning like even rocks are sort of liquid in a larger.

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Speaker 1: Scale, Yeah, exactly, And in the great pressure inside the Earth,

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Speaker 1: for example, they do flow and huge rocks and mountains

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Speaker 1: can be formed by these pressures. So even if you

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Speaker 1: have like a diamond planet, if it's big enough, then

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Speaker 1: the gravitational forces are going to be the only thing

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Speaker 1: you have to worry about.

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Speaker 2: So you're saying you can make a doughnut shaped planet, Like,

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Speaker 2: how does that even work when in it the whole collapse?

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Speaker 1: Yes, and no, Like you can find a solution where

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Speaker 1: it's in equilibrium, where everything is pulling on everything in

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Speaker 1: a balanced way, and so it doesn't collapse, but it's

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Speaker 1: very very unstable, Like a little bit of extra mass

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Speaker 1: here or a little bit of extra mass there can

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Speaker 1: break the thing up. So it's possible theoretically to construct

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Speaker 1: this thing and to set it spinning and to have

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Speaker 1: it avoid collapsing, but it's unlikely for it to appear

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Speaker 1: in nature or to last very long. But if it's

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Speaker 1: big enough, then it has enough like gravitational self energy,

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Speaker 1: sort of like along the tube to avoid collapsing.

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Speaker 2: I guess you just made me think of like Saturn's rings.

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Speaker 2: You know those rings are made out of ice and rocks,

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Speaker 2: and you know, assuming that maybe you could hop between

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Speaker 2: rocks in those rings, you could maybe consider that one

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Speaker 2: whole space body, couldn't you or maybe like if you

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Speaker 2: added more rocks to those rings, it eventually might be solid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And that's actually one potential outcome for a

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Speaker 1: donut planet. If you start with a donut planet, it's

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Speaker 1: likely to break itself up into smaller bodies and then

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Speaker 1: you basically just have rings because if one spot is

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Speaker 1: a little bit more massive then another spot, it's going

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Speaker 1: to pull towards that. You're going to get this like

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Speaker 1: bead instability, where it tends to break up into beads

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Speaker 1: rather than being one continuous planet.

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Speaker 2: Right, But I think the idea is kind of the same, right,

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Speaker 2: like a donut shape planet would is sort of basically

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Speaker 2: like a ring, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're stable for the same reason, but

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Speaker 1: they're a little bit different. Like a ring is basically flat,

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Speaker 1: but a donut shape planet is actually a cylinder, so

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit different. This is something we're thinking about,

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Speaker 1: is like more massive and without a huge planet at

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Speaker 1: the center, and so it's gravity will pull it together

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Speaker 1: into a cylinder rather than keeping it in a flat

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Speaker 1: plane like a set of rings, but they are similar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess what would it be like to

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Speaker 2: be on that planet? Like, could you walk around the

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Speaker 2: tube of the donut and stay on the planet or

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Speaker 2: do you fall into the center of the hole?

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Speaker 1: You could walk around the whole planet and stay on

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Speaker 1: the planet. Down would always be towards the center of

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Speaker 1: the ring, not towards the dot that's in the hole.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I see, because even if you're in the inner

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Speaker 2: part of the hole, you're spinning so fast you're sort

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Speaker 2: of being pressed against the donut, sort of like in

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Speaker 2: those carnival rides where you're spinning it inside.

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Speaker 1: A a graviton. Yeah, exactly, Well, the spin definitely contributes

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Speaker 1: and helps make this thing stable. Do you have a

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Speaker 1: combination of that spin and the actual gravity of this object?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: It really is pulling on you. But the interesting thing

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Speaker 1: is that the gravity is not the same all the

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Speaker 1: way around the planet. Like on a sphere, you're always

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Speaker 1: the same distance from the center of the planet, right,

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Speaker 1: and so the gravity is basically the same. Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: small differences from the pole to the equator, as we

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Speaker 1: just talked about it, but essentially it's the same. But

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Speaker 1: on a Torus, it's significantly different gravity on like the

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Speaker 1: inside and the outside.

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Speaker 2: Whoa meaning, what's the difference is is it stronger or

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Speaker 2: weaker on the inner hole.

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Speaker 1: So if you're walking around the inside or the outside,

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Speaker 1: those are the two equators of the Taurus. Those have

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Speaker 1: the weakest gravity. The gravity is strongest if you're walking

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Speaker 1: on the poles. Now the poles are like a circle.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to visualize, but like the you

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Speaker 1: have a north pole and a south pole where you

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Speaker 1: put the glaze right, yeah, exactly, either on the glazed

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Speaker 1: side or the not glazed side.

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Speaker 2: That a south pole has no glaze on it fun side, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So if you're walking along the glazed pole,

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Speaker 1: then that's where the gravity is the strongest. If you're

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Speaker 1: walking in the outside, you're kind of far away from

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Speaker 1: a lot of the mass and so gravity gets weaker.

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Speaker 2: What if you're from the Netherlands and you're walking around

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Speaker 2: glaze nice on the glazes that you should have some

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Speaker 2: chicken and waffles. You go for the munchies. Yeah. Interesting,

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Speaker 2: So as you're walking around the two of the doughnut,

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Speaker 2: you're going to weigh less or more or less right,

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Speaker 2: mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so life on this kind of planet would

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Speaker 1: be very weird. Although I don't think life could realistically

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Speaker 1: evolve on such a planet because I don't think it

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Speaker 1: would last very long. Again, it's an equilibrium, but it's

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Speaker 1: not stable, which means a small deviation is going to

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Speaker 1: end up breaking this thing up and collapsing it.

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Speaker 2: But I wonder if you can imagine, like taking one

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Speaker 2: of those big asteroids out there in the Solar System

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Speaker 2: asteroid belt and just carving a donut, you would sort

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Speaker 2: of technically be a doughnut planet, and it wouldn't be unstable,

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Speaker 2: would it.

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Speaker 1: You could build a small object like that that's a ring,

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Speaker 1: like a space station. Essentially, you could be constructed that's

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Speaker 1: a ring, and you could do the same thing using

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Speaker 1: the structural integrity of an asteroid. Yeah, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's really planet.

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Speaker 2: Sized, you know, mm if.

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Speaker 1: You want something really like the size of the Earth,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to use gravity and spin. But the

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Speaker 1: cool thing is that such a planet could have really

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Speaker 1: really weird moons, Like you could have moons that orbit

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Speaker 1: in the plane of the donut. You could also have

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Speaker 1: moons that orbit through the hole in the doughnut. Whoa, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's some stable orbits where the moon just goes

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Speaker 1: up and down through the hole just like bounces, like

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Speaker 1: it's on a trampoline or something.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, that'd be pretty fun, pretty interesting. But you're

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Speaker 2: saying these planets would be unstable, meaning like if you

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Speaker 2: knock it, they'll just crumble and collapse or or what

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Speaker 2: what does unstable mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they rely on the symmetry of it, So they

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Speaker 1: rely on having exactly the same gravity from this chunk

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Speaker 1: and that chunk, which means they rely on it all

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Speaker 1: being the same density and having exactly the same shape,

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Speaker 1: and so it tends to break itself apart. If you

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Speaker 1: get hit by a pretty large asteroid for example, Now

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Speaker 1: you've broken that symmetry. This part is pulling harder than

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Speaker 1: the other parts, and the math tells us that while

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Speaker 1: this is a solution, it's wildly unstable and very easy

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Speaker 1: for it to break down.

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Speaker 2: So basically impossible for it to be out there in

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Speaker 2: real space, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean impossible in the infinite universe. It's pretty hard to say.

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Speaker 1: It's technically possible, but so improbable that it seems very

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Speaker 1: unlikely that it exists. Though if the universe is infinite.

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Speaker 1: You know anything can happen.

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Speaker 2: Well, I wonder, because it requires the process of making

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Speaker 2: the planet to be sort of like super duper precise

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Speaker 2: and symmetrical perfect.

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Speaker 1: The rocks are basically just have to come together into

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Speaker 1: that form.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's not like this process and then nothing could

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Speaker 2: touch it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's the answer for Eric. Planets can

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Speaker 2: be donut shape. You can carve a small planet maybe

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Speaker 2: into donut shape, and you could maybe make one out there,

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Speaker 2: but it's not probable and unlikely. My final question, Daniel,

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Speaker 2: is if you're on this donut planet, what does the

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Speaker 2: donuts look like? Do they look just look like balls

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Speaker 2: or like figure eights? Maybe? What do they call pretzels donuts?

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'm glazed enough to answer that question.

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Speaker 2: Just sprinkle some jargon there. All right, Well, thank you, Eric.

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Speaker 2: Now let's get to our second question, and this one

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Speaker 2: is about universe changing quantum events, So we'll dig into that,

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Speaker 2: but first let's take a quick break. All right, we're

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Speaker 2: answering listener questions, and our second question comes from Lauren Hi.

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Speaker 4: Daniel jrge My question is about the universe changing quantum

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Speaker 4: events like of a strange star and it's strange lids,

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Speaker 4: or if the higgs field de finds a more stable

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Speaker 4: state than what it is right now. If this were

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Speaker 4: to happen sufficiently far away from the Milky Way, such

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Speaker 4: that the origin point is expanding away from us relatively

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Speaker 4: faster than the sweet of light because of the universal expansion,

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Speaker 4: would that keep us safe from these events?

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Speaker 2: Thanks? Whoa interesting question. I feel like Lauren is basically saying,

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Speaker 2: can the universe end and we'll never notice?

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Speaker 1: No, she's actually saving the universe right, or she's talking

439
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: about how the universe might be saving us from its

440
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 1: own disaster.

441
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: Hmm, Well, let's break it down. First, she talked about

442
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 2: universe changing quantum events. What does that mean?

443
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: Well, on the podcast a few times, we've talked about

444
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: how our understanding of the nature of matter and reality

445
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: has given us some hints that there might be some

446
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: weird potential events that could be quite disastrous. For example,

447
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 1: now we know that the universe is filled with a

448
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: higgs field, and that higgs field has some energy to it.

449
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: Potential energy is stored in that higgs field, and the

450
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: way the higgs field interacts with other particles gives them

451
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: mass changes how their quantum fields vibrate in such a

452
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: way that they move with inertia. But we don't know

453
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: if that Higgs field is stable, Like it might be

454
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: that all that energy that's in the Higgs field is

455
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 1: sort of stuck in there, but it could get tipped over.

456
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: It could be like that donut planet that works for

457
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: a while, but you know, if something happens, some particle

458
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: collider triggers it, it could collapse. Then it collapses, that

459
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: would spread out at the speed of light. So that's

460
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: a potentially catastrophic event because if the Higgs field loses

461
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: its energy, all the particles lose their mass and nobody's

462
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: eating donuts.

463
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: Or at least would lose weight pretty quickly. But maybe

464
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 2: a question is how do we know this, Like, how

465
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: do we know the Higgs field is like that and

466
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: has this potential to collapse.

467
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: We actually don't know that the Higgs field could collapse.

468
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: The Higgs field could be stable or unstable or meta stable.

469
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: We're still figuring that out. We are measuring how the

470
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: Higgs field couples with itself and how the Higgs itself

471
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: gets mass, and that's going to help us understand the

472
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: sort of contours of the Higgs field, Like, the Higgs

473
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: field is different from every other kind of field. All

474
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: those fields like to relax at a minimum energy, but

475
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: the Higgs field like has a wiggle in it. It's

476
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: sort of like instead of having a canyon with just

477
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: a river at the bottom, there's a canyon with like

478
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: a channel along one of the walls where water can

479
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: also flow. But we don't really know how stable that is,

480
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: if it's totally stable, or if there's just a very

481
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: thin lip there that the universe could roll over down

482
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: to the bottom of the canyon.

483
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: I guess maybe your question is, how do you know

484
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 2: this about the Higgs field? Can you measure it?

485
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have measured the Higgs field, and we have

486
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: a theory about how the Higgs works and the shape

487
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: of the Higgs potential, but we just don't know the

488
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: parameters of it.

489
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: Like, can you measure this little energy that the Higgs

490
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: field has?

491
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we have measured that energy. We know that value. Yes,

492
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: we know the energy that's in the Higgs field. What

493
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: we don't know is how stable that is. That depends

494
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: a little bit about how the Higgs interacts with itself.

495
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 2: So what makes you think that it is maybe unstable.

496
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,239
Speaker 1: Because if it interacts with itself in certain ways, that

497
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: changes the shape of this potential, like the canyon that

498
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: the water is flowing through, and it might mean that

499
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: lip is very very narrow, and in some very high

500
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: energy events, the Higgs field could get pushed out of

501
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: that little channel and roll all the way down to zero,

502
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: basically collapse to the true low energy state.

503
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: Mmm. So the idea is that, like, for some reason,

504
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,239
Speaker 2: where we are in the universe, and as far as

505
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: we can see in the universe, this Higgs value has

506
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: this value to it, But you're saying that value could

507
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: suddenly change, and if it does, then it basically the

508
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: universe kind of collapses.

509
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: Exactly like the universe has been cooling for billions of years.

510
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: It used to be very hot and high energy, and

511
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: as it expands, everything cools and gets more dilute. But

512
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: the Higgs field sort of got stuck on this ledge,

513
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: and we don't know if that ledge is stable or

514
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: if it could keep collapsing. But our whole way of

515
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: life depends on it being stuck on that ledge.

516
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: Right, And the idea is that, like, if it collapses somewhere,

517
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 2: then that collapse is gonna spread out sort of like

518
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 2: a Yeah, you have a room full of dominoes that

519
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 2: are just standing there and you tip one over, that

520
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 2: collapse is going to spread out.

521
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's like if you pop a balloon,

522
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: you pop the whole balloon, not just where you stuck

523
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: the needle.

524
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: But why do you think that is? Could it be

525
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: contained or could in the universe just fill that back up?

526
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. It has to do with again,

527
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: how the Higgs field talks to itself. If one of

528
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: it has less energy, you.

529
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: Said, one of them, what does one of them mean? So,

530
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 2: if the Higgs field in one location loses energy, that

531
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: interacts with the Higgs field nearby, right, The Higgs field

532
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: is not a bunch of independent numbers in space. There's

533
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 2: all this math that connects the Higgs field here with

534
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: the Higgs field somewhere else, which is why like waves

535
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 2: can travel through the Higgs field, you know. And so

536
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: what happens one spot of the Higgs field affects the

537
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: rest of the Higgs field as well. Well. Lauren sort

538
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: of here in her question imagines maybe a good new

539
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: scenario where maybe this has happened or will happen, But

540
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: maybe it happens somewhere so far away this collapse is

541
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: never going to reach it.

542
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, the real nightmare thing about the Higgs collapse is

543
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: it could happen anywhere in the universe and it could

544
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: reach us and we would have literally no warning because

545
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: it would be moving at the speed of light. So

546
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: there's no advanced notion. It could be any moment this

547
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: wave of Higgs collapse could wash over our solar system.

548
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: So that seems kind of terrifying. But Lauren is pointing

549
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: out that the universe has a horizon. There are things

550
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: out there in the universe that are so far away

551
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: from us that the expansion of the universe means we

552
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: will never see light from them, And so she's asking

553
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: if that also means that if the Higgs field collapses,

554
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: there are we protected from it.

555
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: Right or not maybe protected from it, but just isolated

556
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: from it by the expansion of the universe.

557
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly isolated by the expansion of the universe. And

558
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: she's right, the answer is yes, if the Higgs field

559
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: collapses in a region of space that's so far away

560
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: from us that light from it can never reach us,

561
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: then also that Higgs field collapse can never reach us.

562
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: WHOA, that is super cool. I wonder how she thought

563
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: of this? Is this it a known thing or is

564
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: she the first one to think about it?

565
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: No, it's definitely a known thing. It's something people have

566
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: been wondering about, and it's something people think about because

567
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: this expansion of space is so strange. It like breaks

568
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: up the universe into little mini universes. You know, it's

569
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: strange that we have a horizon in our universe beyond

570
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: which we might never see if this expansion continues. You know,

571
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: all of this assumes that the universe is expanding, and

572
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: that expansion is accelerating and will continue to accelerate. This

573
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: is what we call dark energy. As the universe expands,

574
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: all the matter and the radiation gets more and more dilute,

575
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: but dark energy doesn't, and so it becomes a bigger

576
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: and bigger fraction of the energy budget of the universe,

577
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: which then drives its expansion even more, which is why

578
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: the whole thing is accelerating, and because it's space itself expanding.

579
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: As you get further and further away, you have more

580
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: space between you and something else that's expanding, and that's

581
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: why the expansion can become faster than the speed of light,

582
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: which seems like a violation of Einstein's relativity, but it

583
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: isn't actually right.

584
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: Right, although there are two sort of caveats here, Like one,

585
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: we don't know if the universe is going to keep expanding, right,

586
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: It might be that the universe stops expanding, in which

587
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: case this Higgs collapse is going to catch up to us.

588
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, that's true, and the Higgs collapse could change

589
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: the way the universe is expanding.

590
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: That's another wrinkle, right, That's what I was going to say, Like,

591
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: maybe the collapse makes the universe stop expanding, in which

592
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: case it is going to catch up to us.

593
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: It's possible, it's possible. But there's another scenario there which

594
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: is really cool. And the connection between these two ideas

595
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: is actually pretty interesting because we don't understand what dark

596
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: energy is. We just know there's some energy in space

597
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: and that's contributing to the accelerating expansion. We don't know

598
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: where that energy is coming from. Some people wonder if

599
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: that energy is from the Higgs field, although current calculations

600
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: say those numbers don't really agree by like ten to

601
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: the one hundred. But if it is from the Higgs field,

602
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: then what's fascinating is that if the Higgs field collapses,

603
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: you no longer have dark energy everywhere in space, and

604
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: so you no longer have accelerating expansion in that bubble,

605
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: right because that collapse can't catch up with the cosmic horizon.

606
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: The rest of the universe keeps accelerating expansion and this

607
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: bubble just doesn't.

608
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: But wouldn't that bubble grow because the Higgs field is contagious.

609
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: That bubble grows, but at a smaller rate than the

610
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: rest of the universe is expanding.

611
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: Then it wouldn't reach us. Even if it's stopped expanding.

612
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'd get these local collapsed bubbles where the Higgs

613
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: field is very very different in that little bubble, and

614
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: in that bubble you would also not have expanding space.

615
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 5: Mmm.

616
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: So basically, we have to hope that if the universe

617
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: ever collapses, it collapses outside of our horizon and not

618
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: within our horizon. Yes, because if it collapses within our horizon,

619
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: then we're toast.

620
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: Mm hmm exactly. The horizon right now is about five

621
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: gigaparsex away, So anything that happens further away than that,

622
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: any light that's emitted from objects further away than that

623
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 1: we will never see, and so any disasters sparked by

624
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: those objects also we're pretty safe from hm.

625
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: So I guess that reduces our risk, right, because it

626
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: means that because if the universe is super duper huge,

627
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: maybe infinite, then we're sort of dooming because it maybe

628
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: eventually it'll collapse somewhere. But then reduces our risk because

629
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: it's not going to reach us.

630
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. We're only at risk from an enormous,

631
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: vast region of space, not actually infinite space.

632
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: Hmm. So I wonder if that means that we're not

633
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: going to die soon so we should eat all the

634
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: doughnuts we can, or if that means that we're going

635
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: to live for a long time, and so therefore we

636
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: should eat all the donuts we can.

637
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: We should get fitness donuts. That's our next food truck.

638
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: Did you say fitness donuts?

639
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, solid donuts or something.

640
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 2: Oh, those don't sound as delicious all right. Well, thanks

641
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: Lauren for this awesome idea and great question. It sounds

642
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: like the answer is, yeah, we would be safe from

643
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: those universes collapsing outside of our event horizon that we

644
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: can see. So as long as we can't see it,

645
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: we're safe.

646
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: Close your eyes and you won't die, Yeah, basically, or

647
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: I guess if it does, then there's nothing you can do.

648
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: You can always hide under the covers, right, covers protect

649
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: you from everything.

650
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, There you go. All right, Well,

651
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 2: let's get to our last question of the day, and

652
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: it's about extremely massive and extremely old galaxies. So let's

653
00:32:48,840 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: explore that. But first let's take another quick break. All right,

654
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: we're asking listener questions here today and our last question

655
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: is about super duper old and massive galaxies.

656
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 5: Hello, Daniel and Jorge. This is Jamie in New Jersey. Recently,

657
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 5: I have read several stories reporting that teams have used

658
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 5: the web space telescope to observe several extremely massive galaxies

659
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 5: as early as one to two billion years after the

660
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 5: Big Bang. In that galaxies this early challenge our models

661
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 5: of the universe. I would be grateful if you could

662
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 5: explain why these galaxies conflict with our models and is

663
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,479
Speaker 5: this revolutionary or does it just tug on the models

664
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 5: a little bit?

665
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 2: Thank you? All right, great question from Jamie. I feel

666
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: like he's referencing some kind of news that came out recently.

667
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: Yes, he is. There's a paper that came out in

668
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: Nature quite recently and a bunch of listeners sent this

669
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,239
Speaker 1: to me and curious about what it meant. It has

670
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,719
Speaker 1: to do with some observations made by the James Webbs

671
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: based telescope about the early universe.

672
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: What did they find and what did they report?

673
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: So, remember, the James Webs based telescope can see infrared light,

674
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: which means that it can see stuff that's older than

675
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: anything Hubble can see. Hubble works in the optical spectrum

676
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: like visible light that our eyes can also see. But

677
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: as things come from further away in the universe, they

678
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: get expanded more and more, they get more and more

679
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: red shifted. So James web can basically look further back

680
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: in time than Hubble can. There are photons that strike

681
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: Hubble that just don't get recognized by it. Because it's

682
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: an optical telescope. Those photons from the earliest moments of

683
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 1: the universe will be seen by James web So James

684
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: Webb can look further back in time at deeper redshifts,

685
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: at older stuff. And what they saw surprise them about

686
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: the formation of galaxies in the early universe.

687
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 2: Mmmm, they found a galaxy that's super duper extra old.

688
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, they found galaxies that are really big for

689
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: their age. Like we're talking about in the very early

690
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: part of the universe. So these galaxies are sort of

691
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: old in the sense that they were created a long

692
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: time ago, but they're young in that we're seeing them

693
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 1: when they were just made in the very early universe.

694
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: Right. It's like finding an old picture of your parents.

695
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: It's like they're old, but it's a picture of them

696
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 2: when they're young.

697
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And what they saw in that picture is

698
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: very confusing. We had an idea for how galaxies form.

699
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: The universe begins, you have big clumps of gases we

700
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: talked about earlier. You form stars, and that ends the

701
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: dark ages, and those stars come together to make galaxies.

702
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: But that whole thing takes time. You know, it's seated

703
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: by dark matter, because dark matter overwhelms the universe and

704
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: has most of the gravity, and so it shapes all

705
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: of this structure. But in our models, we expected this

706
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: to take a few hundred million years. You know, stars

707
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: take a wild to form and then for them to

708
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: get pulled together. Gravity is not that powerful a force. Yes,

709
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: and what we had seen before this as we used

710
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: hubble to look further and further back in time. Was

711
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: as we went back in time to the earlier universe,

712
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,959
Speaker 1: we saw fewer galaxies and smaller galaxies, because as time

713
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: goes on, galaxies form and then they merge and make

714
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger galaxies. And so Hubble saw this trend

715
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: towards smaller and fewer galaxies. And when we turned on

716
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: James Web, we expected to see more of the same,

717
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: to sort of extrapolate back down to the smallest and

718
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: initial early galaxies. But what they saw instead were big

719
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: Papa and Mama galaxies in the early universe already with

720
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: old stars in them.

721
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 2: What do you mean old stars?

722
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: So you can tell the age of a population of

723
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: stars by looking at the light that it puts out.

724
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: Big stars that don't burn very long tend to be

725
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: very hot, and they make more blue light. Small stars

726
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: that last a long time tend to make more red light.

727
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: So if you see a population of stars with a

728
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: bunch of blue light in them, you know they're fairly young,

729
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: because the blue stars don't live very long. If you

730
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: see a population of stars that are more red, you

731
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: know they're pretty old because all the blue ones have

732
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: already burned out, so they can measure the age of

733
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: a population of stars, and they see that these stars

734
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: look kind of old already. So they expected young, tiny

735
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: galaxies filled with blue stars, but they see big galaxies

736
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: filled with redder stars.

737
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: I guess how do you tell the difference between like

738
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 2: an old star that's really close by and a young

739
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: star that's really far away.

740
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: Oh, I see you're talking about like the spectrum of

741
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: the star versus it's red shift.

742
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean you're saying, like, we can tell how

743
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: young the stars are, but we can also tell how

744
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: far weight it is by the retins of it. How

745
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 2: do you distinguish the two?

746
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. We can do that because

747
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: the star puts out light in many different wavelengths, Like

748
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: the fingerprint of a star, has energy from lots of

749
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: different atomic spectra, and so we can tell both how

750
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: far that whole spectrum is shifted, which tells us the

751
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: red shift to the star and therefore how far away

752
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: it is, and also how hot the star is, Like

753
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: are there more the blue lines than the red lines?

754
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: So we can tell the temperature of the star by

755
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: like the ratio of various lines in the spectrum, and

756
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: that we can tell how far away it is by

757
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: the shifting of those lines. So those are two separate

758
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: measurements mm.

759
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: And so what's weird about this measurement is that the

760
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 2: galaxies are too old to be that young in the universe.

761
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and too big and with old stars in them.

762
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: So it's really surprising.

763
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: WHOA, So what could it mean?

764
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: Well, nobody really knows yet. Everybody's puzzling over it, and

765
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: there's lots of fun ideas that are being bounced around.

766
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: Number one is like, well maybe we goofed. You know,

767
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: we're making these measurements of the red shift of these stars,

768
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: but it's hard, especially because we don't have measurements in

769
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: the optical spectrum to back it up. James Webb is

770
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: pretty precise, but these are difficult measurements to make if

771
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: you only have a few lines that you're using to

772
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: measure these red shifts. And you know, these galaxies are

773
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: very faint blobs, very very far away, and so it's

774
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: not like we can even really resolve and tell that

775
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: it's a galaxy. So the whole thing could just be

776
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: a measurement error, miscalibration.

777
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, what we can't tell what would you see

778
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: like a pinpoint of light or what it's.

779
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: Like a few pixels, you know, these are blobs. One

780
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: explanation is that these aren't even galaxies. That in the

781
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: very early universe. There could be super massive black holes

782
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: that formed, and what we're seeing is light that's emitted

783
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: from the accretion disk of these very early universe super

784
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: massive black holes. So that's another possibility.

785
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: We just looked at a couple of pixels and they

786
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: assumed there was a galaxy.

787
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: Well, basically, galaxies are worth out there in the universe.

788
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: The universe is made of galaxies. That's the basic building

789
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: block of the cosmos.

790
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: Oh, I see when you're talking about that scale. Yeah,

791
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: you can't see individual stars beyond the Milky Way basically,

792
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: so if you see a source of light, it has

793
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 2: to be a galaxy.

794
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: You can see individual stars in some nearby galaxies, but

795
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: in general, yes, the most distant galaxies, we can basically

796
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: just tell there's a blob there, So probably it's a galaxy.

797
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: M or even like a any source of light out

798
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: there that far. It has to be a galaxy maybe

799
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: or not. It could be also a black hole age

800
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: you said.

801
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: It could be. Now, there's no explanation for like how

802
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: the early universe could have made supermassive black holes that

803
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: have these accrusion disks and admit that light. But it's

804
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: just like one fun idea. It gives you a sense

805
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: of like the craziness of the ideas people are exploring

806
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: to explain this unexplained data. That's the fun part of

807
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: physics and science when you're like, what this doesn't make

808
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: any sense, and it forces you to be creative about

809
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: what else could be going on in the universe.

810
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: Mmmm, what are some other possibilities for these weird measurements?

811
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: So possibility one measurement error, Possibility two weird unexplained black holes.

812
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 1: Possibility three is that maybe we are wrong about how

813
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: stars and galaxies formed in the early universe. We have

814
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: a model for how that happens, basically because we can

815
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: see it happen in nearby galaxies which are kind of old.

816
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: And what we see is that star formation is not

817
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: that easy, like our formation is kind of tricky. You

818
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: need a big blob of cold gas and you need

819
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: not too much radiation to like blow it apart. You

820
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: need to leave it alone for a while, so gravity

821
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: pulls it together. And there's lots of examples in the

822
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: universe where galaxies are not making stars anymore, like they're

823
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: just too hot or there's too much radiation from their

824
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: central black hole. This process is called quenching. So it

825
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: might be that our idea for how long it takes

826
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: to form stars it's been biased by looking at star

827
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: formation in the late universe when quenching happens. Maybe in

828
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: the early universe it was possible to form stars much

829
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: faster than it is today because you were still in

830
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: the dark ages and there wasn't all this radiation or

831
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, these ideas are very speculative, but it could

832
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: just be that star formation could happen much faster in

833
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: the early universe than we thought.

834
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,959
Speaker 2: I wonder if it could also be that maybe there

835
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: was just a pocket of a lot of stuff there

836
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 2: when the universe blew up, You know how there are

837
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 2: fluctuations in the amount of the density of the universe made.

838
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: It just happened to be a lot of stuff there.

839
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly possible that there are fluctuations like that.

840
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: We don't have a huge number of data points here yet,

841
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: so everybody's waiting to get more samples and more data

842
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: and look for more things and see are these weird

843
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: examples that can be explained by fluctuations. As you say

844
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: that these fluctuations would be pretty unlikely given our current

845
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: understanding of the cosmological model. But maybe that's wrong, right,

846
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: Maybe our understanding of the early universe has more fluctuations

847
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: than we expected. Maybe there's something else going on. It's

848
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: definitely a lot we don't understand about the very early

849
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: universe and the expansion of the universe in that time,

850
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: and the balance between dark energy and dark matter. So

851
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: there's definitely a lot to learn. And this could just

852
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: be like the thread that begins to unravel it, or

853
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: it could be just a measurement error.

854
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 2: Hmm, I wonder could it also just be like, maybe

855
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: these galaxies are a regular galaxy, but they're moving away

856
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 2: from us really fast. Is that a possibility. That's why

857
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 2: there were so red shifted.

858
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: So the red shift includes two different things. Is like

859
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: the expansion of the universe as a whole, and then

860
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: also galaxies can have velocity relative to that expansion, like

861
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: for example, Andromeda is moving towards us even though the

862
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: universe is expanding, right, so there's a peculiar local velocity.

863
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: And then the overall universe expansion, And I think you're saying, like,

864
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: could these action be closer and not as old as

865
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: we thought, they just happen to be moving away from

866
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: us really really fast. I suppose that's possible, but it

867
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: would be a really large, peculiar velocity. They'd have to

868
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: be like super zooming around, and that's not something we

869
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: expect either. Even in that scenario, that would be something new.

870
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: Why don't we expect it sort of speed limit for galaxies.

871
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: It's not that there's a speed limit, but we have

872
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: a model for how the universe was made and how

873
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: structure is formed, and if things are moving around and

874
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: much faster than that, it tends to disturb that structure.

875
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: And so we see the universe sort of like cooling

876
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: and crystallizing, and that tells us a lot about the

877
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: speed of matter and galaxies in the universe. If there

878
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: was zomom around much faster than the structure of the

879
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: whole universe would look different. But there could always be

880
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: a few weird oddballs, right.

881
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: Right, right, There's always a few weird oddballs in the

882
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: universe here on Earth, all right. So the answer for

883
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: Jamie is, we don't.

884
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: We're not sure it's super exciting because we don't know

885
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: what it means, and it's wonderful because it's a surprise.

886
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: That's the best outcome. Every time you turn on a

887
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: new kind of eyeball and look at a new spot

888
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: in the universe, you hadn't looked at it before, and

889
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: the universe shows you something new.

890
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: Right, right, More job security for physicists.

891
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: And more joy for everybody who's curious about the nature

892
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: of the universe.

893
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: I think more unknowns is not good for those of

894
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 2: us who just want answers. Like, if you're curious, you

895
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: want answers, right, But if you're making a living out

896
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: of the questions, then it's good news for you.

897
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: I think if you're curious, you want answers, but you

898
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: also want more questions.

899
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: Now you're trying to tell people what they want.

900
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm Steve Jobs over here.

901
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 2: There you go, the Steve Jobs a physics. You're one

902
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: black turtleneck away from that.

903
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm one donut away from not being able to wear

904
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: my turtle neck anymore.

905
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: I think they stretched, Daniel. Yeah, so I think they're okay.

906
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: All right, keep eating those donuts or not eating those

907
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 2: donuts for breakfast? All right, Well, thank you to all

908
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: of our question askers. It's always fun to see what

909
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: people are curious about and to get a sense of

910
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: what are the big unknowns out there.

911
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: Thank you very much everybody who shares your curiosity with us.

912
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: This is a ride we're taking together to explore the universe,

913
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: So please don't be shy to write to us to

914
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: questions at danieland Jorge dot com. We love to hear

915
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: from you and we'll always right back.

916
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 2: And send us some chicken and waffle donuts if you

917
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: can with your questions. Always appreciate it all right. We

918
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 2: hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See you

919
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 2: next time.

920
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social

921
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discorg, Insta,

922
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 1: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

923
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

924
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

925
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.