WEBVTT - Opening Statements 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.080 you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.440 Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.040 get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.839 on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.320 This summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.960 Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.600 we explore the live music venues and culture of a 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.920 new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:28.440 into the kind of venues you want to get to 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:33.120 when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.480 to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.880 or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the story 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.520 of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.200 Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.000 was a visionary who built a fortune as a black 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:55.640 man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.440 many people know about him. He raised sort of wiped out, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.160 and I want if this was done intentionally. Listen to 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:07.000 Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:14.400 wherever you get your podcasts. The first trial involving the 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:19.080 Wagner family for the Rodan Family massacre has begun. George Wagner, 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.880 the fourth is the first to go on trial. That 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.120 thirty year old will face a jury for the first 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.440 time when opening statements begin around nine o'clock. Jake Wagner 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.760 said that he rearranged Hannah May's body so that her 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:37.040 newborn baby could breastfeed off of her now a dying 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.600 or dead mother. They were thinking that if they wiped 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:44.200 out the entire Rodan family, there would be no one 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:49.519 left to battle them for custody of this child. Billy 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.960 came running out of the residence saying, I just shot 0:02:54.000 --> 0:03:01.680 my best friend. I just shot my best friend. This 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:07.240 is the Pike did massacre Trials begin Season four, Episode two, 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:12.320 opening statements. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:18.679 Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. It's a gray 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.320 morning in Waverley, Ohio, and you can feel the first 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.679 hint of fall weather starting to seep into the air. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.880 Everyone has filed inside the courtroom by nine am. Good morning. 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.480 This is the case of State of Ohio plaintiff versus 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:37.080 George Washington Wagoner, the fourth defended. Today is September twelve, 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:40.840 twenty twenty two, and we continue proceedings in the trial 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.600 of this matter with multiple attorneys, sheriff's deputies, and a 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.360 scattering of television monitors throughout the courtroom. It feels small. 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.839 Darkwood walls and a thick red carpet make it seem 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:57.440 even more so. There is a large hand pinked murreau 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.960 on the wall behind Judge Deering that says Justicia. It's 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.040 Latin and means justice for all. Present today is the 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.880 defendant with his attorneys John Parker and Richard Nash. The 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.400 statable HIO was represented by Rob Junk, prosecuting attorney and 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:19.800 special prosecutors Angela Kanepa and Andrew Wilson. It's important to 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.240 note that George Wagner the Fourth, currently on trial, and 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.239 his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:32.000 not guilty to all charges. George Wagner the Fourth sits 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.080 between his lawyers, motionless, staring straight ahead as the judge 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.800 instructs the jury. He looks thin earth than he did 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.040 over the summer and has lost some hair as well. 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.440 There's no one in court to support George Wagner, and 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:47.880 the media is allocated to his side of the courtroom. 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:52.200 Angeanette Levy is one of the reporters kind of goes 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.000 to this whole thing of how they were kind of 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:58.120 insular and operating as one unit. There's nobody there to 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.000 support George Wagner the fourth and it's kind of sad 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.679 when you think about it. Courtney and I were actually 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.839 sitting behind him. Then kind of occurred to us after 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.280 that if you had access to the feed, that it 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.320 might appear that we were in support of the Wagners 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:20.279 just by being there, which gave us some pause. It's 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.680 really hard if you're in that courtroom if you're not 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.120 sitting up front to hear at times, so getting a 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.680 front row seat is actually better, and nobody should read 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.240 anything into people sitting behind George Wagner. It's not a 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.279 show of support. It's just a matter of logistics and 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.720 where we were told to sit. Today, the court will 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.760 give some preliminary instructions to the jury, after which there 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.120 will be opening statements by counsel. These opening statements of 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:51.640 counsel are not evidence, but they are a preview of 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.200 the claims of each party, and they are designed to 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:59.040 help you follow the evidence as it is presented. Because 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.359 there will be no witness his call to the stand today, 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.240 the video feed to media outside the courtroom is up 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:08.279 and running for people at home. Basically, the prosecutor's office 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.840 will be giving the jury members kind of the roadmap 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.520 of where they're taking this investigation to prove their case. 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.880 That's exactly what opening statement is. It's a roadmap letting 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.960 the jury know what they think they can prove, where 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.280 they think their case is going to go. The important 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:28.440 thing about opening statement is do not overpromise. Lead prosecuting 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:34.080 Attorney Angie Kneppa gets up to address the jury. She 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.760 has blonde, shoulder lenked hair with bangs, and is wearing 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:41.440 a smart, conservative navy blue suit. Let's talk about why 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.640 we are here. We are here, ladies and gentlemen, jury 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:53.240 because this defended George Wagner the fourth a George Wagner 0:06:54.720 --> 0:07:00.400 and his brother Edward J. Wagner, Jacob Wagner and father 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.320 George by Her the third, also known as Billy Webber, 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:10.960 murdered eight people who did not deserve to die and 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:16.160 went back to sinking. Kneppa speaks with an air of 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.960 confidence and directness. The question that has been asked the 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.320 most over the past six and a half years is 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:33.040 why why did four individuals plot to kill eight members 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.720 of another family? And I think you will be disappointed 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:42.360 to learn that there is no good reason. These murders 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:47.960 happened after a period of three months of planning and 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:57.200 plotting and purchasing and preparing and executing eight individuals of 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.320 a family. And in part you will learn his mother, 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.080 who helped in the planning and plotting of this. You 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:08.040 will learn that the defendants knew that before they walk 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.120 out of the door that night to kill these individuals, 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.600 that there might be other people there, and they all 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:19.040 agree those people would have to be killed too, regardless 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:21.400 of the fact that they literally have no issue with 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:28.640 any of those other individuals. As Andrew Kneppa talks about 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.680 the collateral damage of the Knight of the murders, George 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.760 bows his head ever so slightly and looks down. They 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:40.120 were willing to kill indiscriminately with no reason. At this 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.720 point she locks in with the jury. Kneppa spends almost 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.400 twenty minutes detailing the last known moments of the Roden family. 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.680 Chris Roden, Sr. Was forty years old at the time 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.760 of his death. You see here that on April twenty 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:01.080 first of twenty sixteen, his last out wayne text was 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.320 to Dana Roden. Dana Roden was thirty seven years old 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.719 at the time she was killed, and she was last 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.280 seen on video surveillance at the People's One Stop having 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.959 a conversation with her friend and co worker, Frankie. Roden 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.440 was twenty years old. The last activity we see on 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.680 his phone, just before eleven PM, he takes a picture 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.880 of both of his children sleeping. Hannah May Roden had 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.160 just turned nineteen a few weeks prior to her death. 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.920 Her last outgoing contact was a text to Corey Holdron. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.040 You may recall Corey Holdron was Hannah May's boyfriend at 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.720 the time of the murders. There were two things that 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.080 were kind of chilling about that. One was that the 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.800 boyfriend was supposed to go over there and hang out, 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.960 and his sister had some kind of plumbing problem or something, 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.640 so he couldn't come over, and that probably saved his life. 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.240 The other thing was that Chris Junior had friends over 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.600 all the time, but he was grounded, and he would 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.120 have had a friend over sleeping, over, hanging out playing 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:05.880 video games or whatever, but he was grounded, so his 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.120 friend couldn't come over, and that's saved his friend's life. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.640 They were going to kill anybody as collateral damage that 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:18.120 were in those trailers, here's Stephanie. I have to say, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:23.440 hearing the details about each victim's final moments was a 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.560 piece of the puzzle we'd never heard before. Just knowing 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.520 that Corey Holdron was the last person that Hannahme wrote 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.040 and texted before the murders is kind of a chilling detail. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.000 The idea that little Chris Junior, who was again just 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.480 a little teenager having a buddy over for a sleepover 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.040 where they were going to play video games all night, 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.240 who can't relate to that? It was very chilling. When 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.520 Angie Kneppa goes on to say what could have been 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:59.040 that night, there could have been even more victims indiscriminately 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.280 taken with his track. Actually, now we're hearing these details 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.520 from the prosecution that we just hadn't known before. Angie Kneppa, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.760 I think, particularly in this section of her opening statement, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:16.440 it was really incredibly effective. She is painting a picture 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.280 of the moments in these victims lives, and you can 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.240 see them and you can place yourselves in their shoes, 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.880 whether it's the last known thing they did, was taking 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.720 a picture of their kids, or was having a conversation 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.680 with a coworker while stopping by on an errand after work. 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:40.120 The fact that people's lives were taken purely as collateral damage. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:45.160 The Wagners, according to everything that's been said, we're willing 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:51.280 to take those quote extra lives. So just by happenstance. 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.520 Gary Rodin was there that night, and we have interviewed 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.400 several people over the years who have said, you know, 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.000 Gary would frequently do that. He would just pop up 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.840 Christiniors and crash for a night or two, sometimes even 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.480 up to a week, and then months would go by 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:15.400 where he wouldn't and again, wrong plays, wrong time. Kanepa 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:20.840 alines the entire trajectory of Jake and Hannah's relationship. Hannah 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:26.800 may Roden her crime was not returning the love of 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.880 Jake Wagner, not submitting to the control of the Wagners. 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.920 And you will learn that that is the character of 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.920 this family, was very controlling of any women who came 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.800 into their circle. It kind of starts with a love story, 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.800 if you want to call that. A very young teenage girl, 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.600 Hannah may Roden, age thirteen at the time, was at 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:53.000 the Pike County Fairgrounds and somebody introduced her to Jacob. 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.360 Two years later, Hannah Rodin is pregnant with the daughter 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.559 she shares with Jake Wagner. There are text messages from 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:07.000 Jake to Hannahme, which state quote I'll take and if 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.920 I have to buy force? This is when was still 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:16.199 inside of Hannahme's womb. Hannahme gives birth to the daughter 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.560 she shares with Jake Wagner in twenty thirteen and eventually 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.679 goes to live with the Wagner's, but things go south quickly. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.079 Angela wants the little girl to call her mom even 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.160 when Hannahme is there. It's all too much for Hannah. 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.240 Hearing these text messages really puts to light the fact 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:38.120 that Hanname rode In was clearly in an abusive relationship 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.559 with Jake Wagner. And sometimes when you're in interviewsive relationship, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.480 you get desensitized to bad behavior. And in her case, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.000 she was wise enough and brave enough to get out 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.400 of that relationship despite her young age. And also she 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:55.680 was very fortunate to have a loving family in a 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.520 safe place to land with her family. Not everybody has that, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.880 And I think that's the double whammy here is that 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.199 she did everything correctly. She got out of an abusive situation. 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.320 She tried to make things better. She tried to keep 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.800 things cool with the father of her daughter. Her family 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.360 justifiably looked out for her and protected her, and yet 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:25.120 even that didn't offer enough safety for any of them. Eventually, 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:31.240 Hannahme leaves Jake in early twenty fifteen. She calls her 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.680 father asks for him to come get her. Jacob choked 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:39.080 her and she could not handle the controlling nature of 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:44.080 not just Jake, but also the family. April twenty second, 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.760 twenty sixteen, after the news breaks about the murders, James 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.680 Manley goes to check in on his sister Dana Roden, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:57.640 his nephew Little Chris, and niece Hannah Me. When he 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.560 gets there, he also notices that the door is a jar. 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:05.520 He went back to her bedroom. She was covered up, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:07.600 so he didn't know if she was in the bed. 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.040 He felt around in the bed until he could feel 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.560 that her body was there, and he lifted the pillow 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.200 that was covering her face. She was deceased, shot in 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.680 the head. He goes to check on Hannah May. He 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.840 will tell you that he heard the five day old 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.080 baby crying, but he could not bring himself to go 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:34.600 back and see anything more. Canepa brings up Jake's confession 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.800 of what happened that night. Stephanie and I speak with 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.360 Angeanette Levy. I think one of the most stunning things 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.000 out of opening statements that I heard was the fact 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:50.200 that Jake Wagner told the prosecutors that he was in 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.480 Dana Rodin's house, where Hannah May and Chris Junior were 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.160 also in the home, and that he could see Dana 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.000 Rodin was still awake and had the light from herself 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.520 phone up to her face. And then he said that 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.640 he was standing kind of by Dana Roden's bedroom, and 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:13.280 Hannah Roden's bedroom was nearby, and the newborn baby started crying, 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.120 and so he didn't want Dana Rodin getting up or 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.480 waking up or what have you to help with the baby. 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.280 So he stepped into the room and shot her in 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:27.560 the head, and then went over to Hannah May's room, 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.840 and Hannah May turned and according to Angie Kaneppa, Jake 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:36.400 believes she saw him but didn't necessarily recognize him. He 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.360 wasn't sure of that, and then he then shot her. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.960 And it's so flabbergasting to me the fact that Angie 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.840 Kneppa said Jake Wagner said that he rearranged Hannah May's 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:52.240 body so that her newborn baby could breastfeed, if that's 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.000 even possible off of her now a dying or dead mother. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.320 I feel like you couldn't make that up. And keep 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:05.800 in mind, this was after he'd already killed, allegedly or 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:10.679 helped kill, I should say. According to Jake Christinior and Gary, 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.040 it is the detail that I think was the most 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:18.400 haunting takeaway from opening statements. It's such a disturbing detail 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:24.000 on top of so many disturbing details. We're going to 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:30.000 take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.760 I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.200 Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:41.240 of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:47.439 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.240 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:57.280 He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.480 Bob could lie about any thing, but only takes the 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.480 one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.680 us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.400 to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.520 to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.480 him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.439 him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.720 I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:26.080 listen to the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:31.040 or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.640 Hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.159 never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.040 was just a really terrible immoral thing, a line they 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.240 won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.480 we're killing people. You may never have to face that 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.320 decision when you find yourself at that line. Bounce Ricin, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.880 arn't ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.640 everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.400 only person who can sound the alarm is you. I 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:06.760 wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.600 These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, thinks are 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.960 going to happen to speak out disgrace to our cut. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:19.080 Evil play should be prosecute. When power corrupts conscience is 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.240 the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.600 the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:38.000 you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.080 and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:45.520 my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.040 always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.240 like me have been screaming for years. We've got to 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.760 watch the Supreme Court. Where they're doing is wrong. What 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.560 they're doing as evil. They will take things away. And 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.800 I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor, 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.439 Mo girl, you and I both know what it took 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.520 to just get through the day in New York City 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.679 and get home in one piece. And so the fact 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.600 that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.879 you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.480 about some bills. The only reason that you might think, 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.600 as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.720 are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.960 to The Laverne Cox Show. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.080 podcast or wherever you get your podcast be sure to 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:38.240 subscribe and share. She's a Hollywood Western She's Jack Harrowak, 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.240 but in a nap dress with braids. She is one 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:48.560 of the most important American children's authors of the twentieth century. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.600 She's the basis for a television show still watched around 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.280 the world. Somebody somewhere is watching Little Us in the Proof. 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:59.399 She's been called a hero, a racist, a feminist, and 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.480 a proper gandhist. I think the harm is too great 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.560 because it's just one more thing that Native children have 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.600 to endure. She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author of the 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.000 book series Little House on the Prairie. As a kid, 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.159 I idolized Laura, and last summer I went on the 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.520 road in search of the real Laura. We're literally on 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:27.080 the prairie. What I found was a complicated person alongside 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:31.760 the complicated country she represents. I'm Glennis McNichol, and this 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:37.720 is Wilder. Listen to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:46.840 or wherever you get your podcasts. The tragic arc of 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.200 Jake and Hannah's romance highlights how intertwined the families were 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.760 both in love and in business. It turns out it 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.399 was also the undoing of the Wagner's When Jake Wagner 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:02.359 was initially interviewed pretty eartham the investigation, he indicated that 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:08.240 everything was just dandy between he and Hannah May. A 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:11.600 large part of the prosecution's case revolves around texts and 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.959 Facebook messages that paint anything but a rosy picture of 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.600 Jake and Hannah's battle over their daughter. The media letches 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.520 onto it immediately. Prosecutors said the Wagners were aware of 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:25.240 a chilling statement that Hannah me Roden made on social 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:29.480 media about that little girl's custody just weeks before the killings. 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.800 In Facebook messages their girls mom, Hannah said the only 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.040 way he would get custody is if quote, they kill me. 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.879 Prosecutors said that Wagners knew about that private social media 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.920 post because they had stolen the passwords of the person 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:47.560 that Hannah Roden sent that message too. Additionally, Billy Wagner 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.040 was interviewed and he indicated that he did not have 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:51.439 the phone that he had at the time of the 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:55.200 homicides because he kept trying to call Chris Senior. Because 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:59.040 Chris Senior was his best friend, and after the homicides, 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.560 he kept trying to call Colin and he finally got 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.439 frustrated and upset one day and broke his phone. Well, 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:08.639 that was a good story, but it wasn't true, because 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:11.159 we have phone records that Indicatie never once tried to 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:17.119 call Chris Senior. According to Kneppa, Jacol testified to the 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:23.080 complicated and deep relationship Billy had with Chris Senior. Here again, Stephanie, 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.520 We've always heard that Billy Wagner and Chris Senior. You know, 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:28.360 they knew each other for a long time. They might 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.360 have done some ancillary work stuff together, but best friends. 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:37.679 Never have I heard that Billy Wagner was his best bud. 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.280 I too, have never heard the term best friends as 0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:46.680 it relates to Billy Wagner and Chris Roden Senior. However, 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:49.679 we do know there is a past, there are some 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:54.760 business dealings, There are grandpas to the same baby. That's 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.520 fair in this moment. During the opening statement, Angrew Kneppa 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.640 then goes on to give a preview of what Jake 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:04.919 will say in his testimony, including some details like the 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.399 night of the murder when Billy was at Chris Senior's house. 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.480 Before Chris was aware of what was going on, Billy 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.520 asked Chris Senior to call him because quote, he couldn't 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:21.200 find his phone. When an actuality, all of the Wagner's 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.480 phones were back with Angela, so that when Chris Senior 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.960 called Billy's phone or any of the other phones, they 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:33.280 would register at being at home. Even just having the 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.399 foresight to put that part of the plan in place, 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:39.280 they were smart enough to know that these phones will 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.400 be tracked and they will ping someplace, and that will 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:49.640 provide them with an alibi. Angie Kneppa continues, Jake will 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:53.119 tell you that Billy came running out of the residence 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:58.160 and was hysterical, saying, I just shot my best friend. 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:00.680 I just shot my best friend, he will say. At 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.880 that point, he and George tried to calm Billy down, 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:09.000 and George and Billy drug the bodies of Gary Rowden 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:12.439 and Chris Senior back to the bedroom of Chris Senior 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:19.879 Anjeanette Levy. In Chris Senior's home, there was a long 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:24.800 path of blood drag marks from where apparently he and 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:28.879 Gary Rowden had been dragged back into a back bedroom 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:32.639 and essentially thrown on top of each other, and then 0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:35.080 a comforter thrown on top of them. You know, they 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:38.600 were just thrown away like trash. Chris Senior was shot 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:43.600 just in that general area nine times, so there was 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:48.840 just a long path of blood. There were so many 0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:53.159 familial roots and conflicting feelings between the two families. But 0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:57.520 why the totality of the crime the entire family. Early 0:25:57.560 --> 0:26:00.840 in her statement, Anti Kneppa alludes to the lateral damage 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:04.720 and indiscriminate killing in this focused custody battle over Jake 0:26:04.760 --> 0:26:09.439 Wagner and Hannah May's share daughter. Chris Roden Senior was 0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:15.280 one of the intended targets of the Wagner's That's because 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:18.240 he was the patriarch of the family and they considered 0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:21.200 basically that if they kind of got rid of him, 0:26:21.840 --> 0:26:27.080 that the structure of the family would fall. And they 0:26:27.119 --> 0:26:31.080 also knew that if they only killed Hannah May, that 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:33.800 he would know who did it, and he would that 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:37.200 would either get them arrested or he would retaliate. Gary 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:42.440