Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been
Speaker 1: on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music.
Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of
Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday,
Speaker 1: we explore the live music venues and culture of a
Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues
Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to
Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen
Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the story
Speaker 1: of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He
Speaker 1: was a visionary who built a fortune as a black
Speaker 1: man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not
Speaker 1: many people know about him. He raised sort of wiped out,
Speaker 1: and I want if this was done intentionally. Listen to
Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. The first trial involving the
Speaker 1: Wagner family for the Rodan Family massacre has begun. George Wagner,
Speaker 1: the fourth is the first to go on trial. That
Speaker 1: thirty year old will face a jury for the first
Speaker 1: time when opening statements begin around nine o'clock. Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: said that he rearranged Hannah May's body so that her
Speaker 1: newborn baby could breastfeed off of her now a dying
Speaker 1: or dead mother. They were thinking that if they wiped
Speaker 1: out the entire Rodan family, there would be no one
Speaker 1: left to battle them for custody of this child. Billy
Speaker 1: came running out of the residence saying, I just shot
Speaker 1: my best friend. I just shot my best friend. This
Speaker 1: is the Pike did massacre Trials begin Season four, Episode two,
Speaker 1: opening statements. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie
Speaker 1: Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. It's a gray
Speaker 1: morning in Waverley, Ohio, and you can feel the first
Speaker 1: hint of fall weather starting to seep into the air.
Speaker 1: Everyone has filed inside the courtroom by nine am. Good morning.
Speaker 1: This is the case of State of Ohio plaintiff versus
Speaker 1: George Washington Wagoner, the fourth defended. Today is September twelve,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and we continue proceedings in the trial
Speaker 1: of this matter with multiple attorneys, sheriff's deputies, and a
Speaker 1: scattering of television monitors throughout the courtroom. It feels small.
Speaker 1: Darkwood walls and a thick red carpet make it seem
Speaker 1: even more so. There is a large hand pinked murreau
Speaker 1: on the wall behind Judge Deering that says Justicia. It's
Speaker 1: Latin and means justice for all. Present today is the
Speaker 1: defendant with his attorneys John Parker and Richard Nash. The
Speaker 1: statable HIO was represented by Rob Junk, prosecuting attorney and
Speaker 1: special prosecutors Angela Kanepa and Andrew Wilson. It's important to
Speaker 1: note that George Wagner the Fourth, currently on trial, and
Speaker 1: his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded
Speaker 1: not guilty to all charges. George Wagner the Fourth sits
Speaker 1: between his lawyers, motionless, staring straight ahead as the judge
Speaker 1: instructs the jury. He looks thin earth than he did
Speaker 1: over the summer and has lost some hair as well.
Speaker 1: There's no one in court to support George Wagner, and
Speaker 1: the media is allocated to his side of the courtroom.
Speaker 1: Angeanette Levy is one of the reporters kind of goes
Speaker 1: to this whole thing of how they were kind of
Speaker 1: insular and operating as one unit. There's nobody there to
Speaker 1: support George Wagner the fourth and it's kind of sad
Speaker 1: when you think about it. Courtney and I were actually
Speaker 1: sitting behind him. Then kind of occurred to us after
Speaker 1: that if you had access to the feed, that it
Speaker 1: might appear that we were in support of the Wagners
Speaker 1: just by being there, which gave us some pause. It's
Speaker 1: really hard if you're in that courtroom if you're not
Speaker 1: sitting up front to hear at times, so getting a
Speaker 1: front row seat is actually better, and nobody should read
Speaker 1: anything into people sitting behind George Wagner. It's not a
Speaker 1: show of support. It's just a matter of logistics and
Speaker 1: where we were told to sit. Today, the court will
Speaker 1: give some preliminary instructions to the jury, after which there
Speaker 1: will be opening statements by counsel. These opening statements of
Speaker 1: counsel are not evidence, but they are a preview of
Speaker 1: the claims of each party, and they are designed to
Speaker 1: help you follow the evidence as it is presented. Because
Speaker 1: there will be no witness his call to the stand today,
Speaker 1: the video feed to media outside the courtroom is up
Speaker 1: and running for people at home. Basically, the prosecutor's office
Speaker 1: will be giving the jury members kind of the roadmap
Speaker 1: of where they're taking this investigation to prove their case.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what opening statement is. It's a roadmap letting
Speaker 1: the jury know what they think they can prove, where
Speaker 1: they think their case is going to go. The important
Speaker 1: thing about opening statement is do not overpromise. Lead prosecuting
Speaker 1: Attorney Angie Kneppa gets up to address the jury. She
Speaker 1: has blonde, shoulder lenked hair with bangs, and is wearing
Speaker 1: a smart, conservative navy blue suit. Let's talk about why
Speaker 1: we are here. We are here, ladies and gentlemen, jury
Speaker 1: because this defended George Wagner the fourth a George Wagner
Speaker 1: and his brother Edward J. Wagner, Jacob Wagner and father
Speaker 1: George by Her the third, also known as Billy Webber,
Speaker 1: murdered eight people who did not deserve to die and
Speaker 1: went back to sinking. Kneppa speaks with an air of
Speaker 1: confidence and directness. The question that has been asked the
Speaker 1: most over the past six and a half years is
Speaker 1: why why did four individuals plot to kill eight members
Speaker 1: of another family? And I think you will be disappointed
Speaker 1: to learn that there is no good reason. These murders
Speaker 1: happened after a period of three months of planning and
Speaker 1: plotting and purchasing and preparing and executing eight individuals of
Speaker 1: a family. And in part you will learn his mother,
Speaker 1: who helped in the planning and plotting of this. You
Speaker 1: will learn that the defendants knew that before they walk
Speaker 1: out of the door that night to kill these individuals,
Speaker 1: that there might be other people there, and they all
Speaker 1: agree those people would have to be killed too, regardless
Speaker 1: of the fact that they literally have no issue with
Speaker 1: any of those other individuals. As Andrew Kneppa talks about
Speaker 1: the collateral damage of the Knight of the murders, George
Speaker 1: bows his head ever so slightly and looks down. They
Speaker 1: were willing to kill indiscriminately with no reason. At this
Speaker 1: point she locks in with the jury. Kneppa spends almost
Speaker 1: twenty minutes detailing the last known moments of the Roden family.
Speaker 1: Chris Roden, Sr. Was forty years old at the time
Speaker 1: of his death. You see here that on April twenty
Speaker 1: first of twenty sixteen, his last out wayne text was
Speaker 1: to Dana Roden. Dana Roden was thirty seven years old
Speaker 1: at the time she was killed, and she was last
Speaker 1: seen on video surveillance at the People's One Stop having
Speaker 1: a conversation with her friend and co worker, Frankie. Roden
Speaker 1: was twenty years old. The last activity we see on
Speaker 1: his phone, just before eleven PM, he takes a picture
Speaker 1: of both of his children sleeping. Hannah May Roden had
Speaker 1: just turned nineteen a few weeks prior to her death.
Speaker 1: Her last outgoing contact was a text to Corey Holdron.
Speaker 1: You may recall Corey Holdron was Hannah May's boyfriend at
Speaker 1: the time of the murders. There were two things that
Speaker 1: were kind of chilling about that. One was that the
Speaker 1: boyfriend was supposed to go over there and hang out,
Speaker 1: and his sister had some kind of plumbing problem or something,
Speaker 1: so he couldn't come over, and that probably saved his life.
Speaker 1: The other thing was that Chris Junior had friends over
Speaker 1: all the time, but he was grounded, and he would
Speaker 1: have had a friend over sleeping, over, hanging out playing
Speaker 1: video games or whatever, but he was grounded, so his
Speaker 1: friend couldn't come over, and that's saved his friend's life.
Speaker 1: They were going to kill anybody as collateral damage that
Speaker 1: were in those trailers, here's Stephanie. I have to say,
Speaker 1: hearing the details about each victim's final moments was a
Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle we'd never heard before. Just knowing
Speaker 1: that Corey Holdron was the last person that Hannahme wrote
Speaker 1: and texted before the murders is kind of a chilling detail.
Speaker 1: The idea that little Chris Junior, who was again just
Speaker 1: a little teenager having a buddy over for a sleepover
Speaker 1: where they were going to play video games all night,
Speaker 1: who can't relate to that? It was very chilling. When
Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa goes on to say what could have been
Speaker 1: that night, there could have been even more victims indiscriminately
Speaker 1: taken with his track. Actually, now we're hearing these details
Speaker 1: from the prosecution that we just hadn't known before. Angie Kneppa,
Speaker 1: I think, particularly in this section of her opening statement,
Speaker 1: it was really incredibly effective. She is painting a picture
Speaker 1: of the moments in these victims lives, and you can
Speaker 1: see them and you can place yourselves in their shoes,
Speaker 1: whether it's the last known thing they did, was taking
Speaker 1: a picture of their kids, or was having a conversation
Speaker 1: with a coworker while stopping by on an errand after work.
Speaker 1: The fact that people's lives were taken purely as collateral damage.
Speaker 1: The Wagners, according to everything that's been said, we're willing
Speaker 1: to take those quote extra lives. So just by happenstance.
Speaker 1: Gary Rodin was there that night, and we have interviewed
Speaker 1: several people over the years who have said, you know,
Speaker 1: Gary would frequently do that. He would just pop up
Speaker 1: Christiniors and crash for a night or two, sometimes even
Speaker 1: up to a week, and then months would go by
Speaker 1: where he wouldn't and again, wrong plays, wrong time. Kanepa
Speaker 1: alines the entire trajectory of Jake and Hannah's relationship. Hannah
Speaker 1: may Roden her crime was not returning the love of
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner, not submitting to the control of the Wagners.
Speaker 1: And you will learn that that is the character of
Speaker 1: this family, was very controlling of any women who came
Speaker 1: into their circle. It kind of starts with a love story,
Speaker 1: if you want to call that. A very young teenage girl,
Speaker 1: Hannah may Roden, age thirteen at the time, was at
Speaker 1: the Pike County Fairgrounds and somebody introduced her to Jacob.
Speaker 1: Two years later, Hannah Rodin is pregnant with the daughter
Speaker 1: she shares with Jake Wagner. There are text messages from
Speaker 1: Jake to Hannahme, which state quote I'll take and if
Speaker 1: I have to buy force? This is when was still
Speaker 1: inside of Hannahme's womb. Hannahme gives birth to the daughter
Speaker 1: she shares with Jake Wagner in twenty thirteen and eventually
Speaker 1: goes to live with the Wagner's, but things go south quickly.
Speaker 1: Angela wants the little girl to call her mom even
Speaker 1: when Hannahme is there. It's all too much for Hannah.
Speaker 1: Hearing these text messages really puts to light the fact
Speaker 1: that Hanname rode In was clearly in an abusive relationship
Speaker 1: with Jake Wagner. And sometimes when you're in interviewsive relationship,
Speaker 1: you get desensitized to bad behavior. And in her case,
Speaker 1: she was wise enough and brave enough to get out
Speaker 1: of that relationship despite her young age. And also she
Speaker 1: was very fortunate to have a loving family in a
Speaker 1: safe place to land with her family. Not everybody has that,
Speaker 1: And I think that's the double whammy here is that
Speaker 1: she did everything correctly. She got out of an abusive situation.
Speaker 1: She tried to make things better. She tried to keep
Speaker 1: things cool with the father of her daughter. Her family
Speaker 1: justifiably looked out for her and protected her, and yet
Speaker 1: even that didn't offer enough safety for any of them. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Hannahme leaves Jake in early twenty fifteen. She calls her
Speaker 1: father asks for him to come get her. Jacob choked
Speaker 1: her and she could not handle the controlling nature of
Speaker 1: not just Jake, but also the family. April twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, after the news breaks about the murders, James
Speaker 1: Manley goes to check in on his sister Dana Roden,
Speaker 1: his nephew Little Chris, and niece Hannah Me. When he
Speaker 1: gets there, he also notices that the door is a jar.
Speaker 1: He went back to her bedroom. She was covered up,
Speaker 1: so he didn't know if she was in the bed.
Speaker 1: He felt around in the bed until he could feel
Speaker 1: that her body was there, and he lifted the pillow
Speaker 1: that was covering her face. She was deceased, shot in
Speaker 1: the head. He goes to check on Hannah May. He
Speaker 1: will tell you that he heard the five day old
Speaker 1: baby crying, but he could not bring himself to go
Speaker 1: back and see anything more. Canepa brings up Jake's confession
Speaker 1: of what happened that night. Stephanie and I speak with
Speaker 1: Angeanette Levy. I think one of the most stunning things
Speaker 1: out of opening statements that I heard was the fact
Speaker 1: that Jake Wagner told the prosecutors that he was in
Speaker 1: Dana Rodin's house, where Hannah May and Chris Junior were
Speaker 1: also in the home, and that he could see Dana
Speaker 1: Rodin was still awake and had the light from herself
Speaker 1: phone up to her face. And then he said that
Speaker 1: he was standing kind of by Dana Roden's bedroom, and
Speaker 1: Hannah Roden's bedroom was nearby, and the newborn baby started crying,
Speaker 1: and so he didn't want Dana Rodin getting up or
Speaker 1: waking up or what have you to help with the baby.
Speaker 1: So he stepped into the room and shot her in
Speaker 1: the head, and then went over to Hannah May's room,
Speaker 1: and Hannah May turned and according to Angie Kaneppa, Jake
Speaker 1: believes she saw him but didn't necessarily recognize him. He
Speaker 1: wasn't sure of that, and then he then shot her.
Speaker 1: And it's so flabbergasting to me the fact that Angie
Speaker 1: Kneppa said Jake Wagner said that he rearranged Hannah May's
Speaker 1: body so that her newborn baby could breastfeed, if that's
Speaker 1: even possible off of her now a dying or dead mother.
Speaker 1: I feel like you couldn't make that up. And keep
Speaker 1: in mind, this was after he'd already killed, allegedly or
Speaker 1: helped kill, I should say. According to Jake Christinior and Gary,
Speaker 1: it is the detail that I think was the most
Speaker 1: haunting takeaway from opening statements. It's such a disturbing detail
Speaker 1: on top of so many disturbing details. We're going to
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few
Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about any thing, but only takes the
Speaker 1: one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob,
Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him
Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put
Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw
Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call
Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister.
Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can
Speaker 1: listen to the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney.
Speaker 1: Hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd
Speaker 1: never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it
Speaker 1: was just a really terrible immoral thing, a line they
Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no,
Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that
Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line. Bounce Ricin,
Speaker 1: arn't ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give
Speaker 1: everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the
Speaker 1: only person who can sound the alarm is you. I
Speaker 1: wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 1: These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, thinks are
Speaker 1: going to happen to speak out disgrace to our cut.
Speaker 1: Evil play should be prosecute. When power corrupts conscience is
Speaker 1: the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to
Speaker 1: the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. Where they're doing is wrong. What
Speaker 1: they're doing as evil. They will take things away. And
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor,
Speaker 1: Mo girl, you and I both know what it took
Speaker 1: to just get through the day in New York City
Speaker 1: and get home in one piece. And so the fact
Speaker 1: that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved,
Speaker 1: you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining
Speaker 1: about some bills. The only reason that you might think,
Speaker 1: as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people
Speaker 1: are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen
Speaker 1: to The Laverne Cox Show. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcast be sure to
Speaker 1: subscribe and share. She's a Hollywood Western She's Jack Harrowak,
Speaker 1: but in a nap dress with braids. She is one
Speaker 1: of the most important American children's authors of the twentieth century.
Speaker 1: She's the basis for a television show still watched around
Speaker 1: the world. Somebody somewhere is watching Little Us in the Proof.
Speaker 1: She's been called a hero, a racist, a feminist, and
Speaker 1: a proper gandhist. I think the harm is too great
Speaker 1: because it's just one more thing that Native children have
Speaker 1: to endure. She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author of the
Speaker 1: book series Little House on the Prairie. As a kid,
Speaker 1: I idolized Laura, and last summer I went on the
Speaker 1: road in search of the real Laura. We're literally on
Speaker 1: the prairie. What I found was a complicated person alongside
Speaker 1: the complicated country she represents. I'm Glennis McNichol, and this
Speaker 1: is Wilder. Listen to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. The tragic arc of
Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah's romance highlights how intertwined the families were
Speaker 1: both in love and in business. It turns out it
Speaker 1: was also the undoing of the Wagner's When Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: was initially interviewed pretty eartham the investigation, he indicated that
Speaker 1: everything was just dandy between he and Hannah May. A
Speaker 1: large part of the prosecution's case revolves around texts and
Speaker 1: Facebook messages that paint anything but a rosy picture of
Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah's battle over their daughter. The media letches
Speaker 1: onto it immediately. Prosecutors said the Wagners were aware of
Speaker 1: a chilling statement that Hannah me Roden made on social
Speaker 1: media about that little girl's custody just weeks before the killings.
Speaker 1: In Facebook messages their girls mom, Hannah said the only
Speaker 1: way he would get custody is if quote, they kill me.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors said that Wagners knew about that private social media
Speaker 1: post because they had stolen the passwords of the person
Speaker 1: that Hannah Roden sent that message too. Additionally, Billy Wagner
Speaker 1: was interviewed and he indicated that he did not have
Speaker 1: the phone that he had at the time of the
Speaker 1: homicides because he kept trying to call Chris Senior. Because
Speaker 1: Chris Senior was his best friend, and after the homicides,
Speaker 1: he kept trying to call Colin and he finally got
Speaker 1: frustrated and upset one day and broke his phone. Well,
Speaker 1: that was a good story, but it wasn't true, because
Speaker 1: we have phone records that Indicatie never once tried to
Speaker 1: call Chris Senior. According to Kneppa, Jacol testified to the
Speaker 1: complicated and deep relationship Billy had with Chris Senior. Here again, Stephanie,
Speaker 1: We've always heard that Billy Wagner and Chris Senior. You know,
Speaker 1: they knew each other for a long time. They might
Speaker 1: have done some ancillary work stuff together, but best friends.
Speaker 1: Never have I heard that Billy Wagner was his best bud.
Speaker 1: I too, have never heard the term best friends as
Speaker 1: it relates to Billy Wagner and Chris Roden Senior. However,
Speaker 1: we do know there is a past, there are some
Speaker 1: business dealings, There are grandpas to the same baby. That's
Speaker 1: fair in this moment. During the opening statement, Angrew Kneppa
Speaker 1: then goes on to give a preview of what Jake
Speaker 1: will say in his testimony, including some details like the
Speaker 1: night of the murder when Billy was at Chris Senior's house.
Speaker 1: Before Chris was aware of what was going on, Billy
Speaker 1: asked Chris Senior to call him because quote, he couldn't
Speaker 1: find his phone. When an actuality, all of the Wagner's
Speaker 1: phones were back with Angela, so that when Chris Senior
Speaker 1: called Billy's phone or any of the other phones, they
Speaker 1: would register at being at home. Even just having the
Speaker 1: foresight to put that part of the plan in place,
Speaker 1: they were smart enough to know that these phones will
Speaker 1: be tracked and they will ping someplace, and that will
Speaker 1: provide them with an alibi. Angie Kneppa continues, Jake will
Speaker 1: tell you that Billy came running out of the residence
Speaker 1: and was hysterical, saying, I just shot my best friend.
Speaker 1: I just shot my best friend, he will say. At
Speaker 1: that point, he and George tried to calm Billy down,
Speaker 1: and George and Billy drug the bodies of Gary Rowden
Speaker 1: and Chris Senior back to the bedroom of Chris Senior
Speaker 1: Anjeanette Levy. In Chris Senior's home, there was a long
Speaker 1: path of blood drag marks from where apparently he and
Speaker 1: Gary Rowden had been dragged back into a back bedroom
Speaker 1: and essentially thrown on top of each other, and then
Speaker 1: a comforter thrown on top of them. You know, they
Speaker 1: were just thrown away like trash. Chris Senior was shot
Speaker 1: just in that general area nine times, so there was
Speaker 1: just a long path of blood. There were so many
Speaker 1: familial roots and conflicting feelings between the two families. But
Speaker 1: why the totality of the crime the entire family. Early
Speaker 1: in her statement, Anti Kneppa alludes to the lateral damage
Speaker 1: and indiscriminate killing in this focused custody battle over Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner and Hannah May's share daughter. Chris Roden Senior was
Speaker 1: one of the intended targets of the Wagner's That's because
Speaker 1: he was the patriarch of the family and they considered
Speaker 1: basically that if they kind of got rid of him,
Speaker 1: that the structure of the family would fall. And they
Speaker 1: also knew that if they only killed Hannah May, that
Speaker 1: he would know who did it, and he would that
Speaker 1: would either get them arrested or he would retaliate. Gary
Speaker 1: Roden was killed simply because he was there. As Kneppa
Speaker 1: goes through the entire family at the Defenses Council table,
Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth looks down for this entire part
Speaker 1: of the statement. Kenneth Roden and Chris Roden Senior were
Speaker 1: very close to each other. There had been prior occasions
Speaker 1: where Chris Roden had been hurt and Kenneth taliated on
Speaker 1: his behalf. So the Wagners very much knew that about Kenneth,
Speaker 1: and so they decided that he had to be killed
Speaker 1: because again he would know who it was. We have
Speaker 1: kind of been working under the narrative that whoever did
Speaker 1: this wanted to wipe out the entire bloodline, frankly or
Speaker 1: anybody who would potentially lay claim to custody of the
Speaker 1: then three year old, But it also sounds like some
Speaker 1: of the victims were targeted because they feared retribution. Kenneth
Speaker 1: Rowden has always been a confusing crime scene to me
Speaker 1: because we never understood why. And maybe now it makes
Speaker 1: sense that the idea was he was very very close
Speaker 1: with Chris Senior, and he was very close to the
Speaker 1: entire family, and had he known that anybody had ill
Speaker 1: will toward his family, that, you know, he would have
Speaker 1: taken retribution. That makes sense to me, but I hadn't
Speaker 1: thought of it before. I always thought they would have
Speaker 1: been wiped out because they would have possibly known who
Speaker 1: did it, not necessarily because of the retribution or revenge
Speaker 1: aspect of it. It would have just been like, oh,
Speaker 1: you have knowledge that you knew you were going to
Speaker 1: put the point the cops at us. But they make
Speaker 1: it sound like no, Kenneth would have maybe taken matters
Speaker 1: into his own hands and taken care of this himself.
Speaker 1: The fact that Hannah Hazel, I always thought she was
Speaker 1: killed because of Charlie Gilly, because of a jealousy type
Speaker 1: thing there. But apparently they say she was just collateral damage,
Speaker 1: that she was killed because she was there. Gary Rowden
Speaker 1: was killed because he was there. The logic doesn't grock
Speaker 1: with me. She was Frankie's fiance. Of course she was
Speaker 1: going to be there. Seemed like it was Dana's house,
Speaker 1: of course she was going to be there. I really
Speaker 1: I can't logically compute it. I think it's more like
Speaker 1: Hannah Hazel wasn't a target, but it was almost like
Speaker 1: they had to kill her because she was there. You
Speaker 1: can't go in and kill Frankie and not kill her
Speaker 1: and say that. To me, it's just not that it
Speaker 1: ever makes sense to kill anybody. But that's just even
Speaker 1: more senseless if they were fearing that the Rodin family
Speaker 1: would want to take matters into their own hands. Not
Speaker 1: that they said that, but it was intimated that they
Speaker 1: feared retribution. That also shows how much they were loved.
Speaker 1: They were all steeped in so much loving history that yeah,
Speaker 1: it speaks to the fact that they were all very close.
Speaker 1: The motive to kill Dana Rodin always seemed murky. And
Speaker 1: how about the fact that Dana Roden was considered not
Speaker 1: a target, which I find really strange because how could
Speaker 1: she not have been an intended target because she could
Speaker 1: have possibly laid claim to She would have known about
Speaker 1: the custody battle, and she was going to be home
Speaker 1: that night. I mean maybe if she had worked an
Speaker 1: overnight shift. We knew she worked a later shift to
Speaker 1: double that day and got home later. But how could
Speaker 1: she not have been an intended target if they had
Speaker 1: already said, you know, even if Chris Junior had a
Speaker 1: friend over or they would have killed that person. They
Speaker 1: would have killed whoever was there. So how was Dana
Speaker 1: Road not an intended target? According to Kneppa, Dana was
Speaker 1: privy to the threatch Dick made towards Hannah Dana couldn't
Speaker 1: be left alive to reveal what she knew. When Chris
Speaker 1: Senior and Gary's bodies were found, another persistent theme in
Speaker 1: our investigation was discovered. Bobby Joe will tell you that
Speaker 1: on this particular morning, she and Billie and Emma Morgan
Speaker 1: drove up to that location. Emma and Billy Morgan were
Speaker 1: a married couple living with Bobby Joe Manley. They would
Speaker 1: come to Chris Senior's house in the morning to help
Speaker 1: feed his animals. Typically, Chris Senior is not there when
Speaker 1: they arrive because he gets up early and he's already
Speaker 1: on his way to Big Bear Lake where he works
Speaker 1: every day. He operated, did heavy equipment, and did construction,
Speaker 1: built decks and stuff like that. You will learn that
Speaker 1: they immediately thought something was amiss because Christinior's truck was
Speaker 1: still at the house and both of the inside dogs
Speaker 1: were sitting outside of the house on the front porch.
Speaker 1: Gary Roden was thirty eight when he was killed. He
Speaker 1: was from Kentucky and would come up to piked In
Speaker 1: and live with Chris Sior on and off. Gary also
Speaker 1: worked at Big Bear Lake. Billy went to go start
Speaker 1: feeding the animals Bobby Joe goes up to the house
Speaker 1: to see what's going on with Chris. Why the dogs
Speaker 1: are out all that stuff? The door is locked. That's
Speaker 1: also unusual. They obviously were not prepared for what they
Speaker 1: saw when they entered that residence. When they found Chris,
Speaker 1: he was wearing a big Bear Lake sweatshirt. They quickly
Speaker 1: exited and she went to the car where Emma Morgan
Speaker 1: they call her. Emmy, was still seated, and she retrieved
Speaker 1: her telephone and made a phone call to nine one one.
Speaker 1: Another loose end in the case has brought up as well.
Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa mentions what he calls a quote false exculpatory story.
Speaker 1: It's a story about a big drug deal in California
Speaker 1: that Billy Wagner and Chris Rodinorre supposed to be a
Speaker 1: part of. Also a part of this alleged deal was
Speaker 1: a man named Skid Montgomery. It's important to note that
Speaker 1: we are not saying Skid Montgomery has any drug related convictions,
Speaker 1: nor are we saying he's implicated in any way into
Speaker 1: the murders. This is simply a reporting of what was
Speaker 1: brought up in open court after the murders. A local
Speaker 1: man named Jeff Tackett got a visit from his friend
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. He said after the homicides, Billy came to
Speaker 1: his home and stood at the end of the driveway
Speaker 1: and talked to him and said that he couldn't stand himself.
Speaker 1: He also told a story about Skid Montgomery, one of
Speaker 1: the wealthiest and most powerful people in Pike County, possibly
Speaker 1: arranging the Rodent murders because Chris Senior cut Skid out
Speaker 1: of a drug deal. And we've heard no evidence that
Speaker 1: Chris Senior and Skid Montgomery were actually involved in drug
Speaker 1: dealing together, but we've heard that Billy and Chris Senior
Speaker 1: were business associates. We've also gotten a lot of tips
Speaker 1: from listeners in and around the area who keep pointing
Speaker 1: to Skid Montgomery as something relevant. The prosecution also seems
Speaker 1: to be rolling out the cartel as part of their case.
Speaker 1: Whoever killed these individuals were very intimate with both the
Speaker 1: personal habits of the Rodents and the residences themselves. I
Speaker 1: told you that Dana Roden and Hanname and Little Chris
Speaker 1: had just moved into that residence less than thirty days prior,
Speaker 1: so you had to know them well enough to know that, right.
Speaker 1: This kind of gets rod of the drug cartel idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know in other individuals who just wouldn't know that.
Speaker 1: So here's Billy putting out this new theory and it's
Speaker 1: caught enough wind that even we've heard about it. I'm
Speaker 1: curious what the connection to this Skid Montgomery is. What
Speaker 1: do you think about the fact that Auntie Kneppa is
Speaker 1: sort of eliminating any of the theories regarding the cartel.
Speaker 1: I think that what she's doing is a good job
Speaker 1: at her job as a prosecutor. She's laying forth a
Speaker 1: narrative and she wants to make sure there is no
Speaker 1: other focus on anything but what she is saying is true,
Speaker 1: and that it was the Wagners and the Wagners alone.
Speaker 1: Is it the full story? We'll find out. Much has
Speaker 1: been made of the fact that the opening statements are
Speaker 1: very long. Keep in mind, there's so much to cover
Speaker 1: and it has to be very thorough. She has to
Speaker 1: really take her time and lay it all out there,
Speaker 1: because one misstep could jeopardize the whole case. All in all,
Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa's opening statement runs nearly four hours long. The
Speaker 1: reaction from the media swift and none too kind. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about the prosecution and the storytelling, because we've had
Speaker 1: legally an ass on and viewers has said the opening
Speaker 1: statement of the prosecution was very lengthy, somewhat confusing, pretty
Speaker 1: tedious about the details. It wasn't what I would have done,
Speaker 1: which is to come out say what the crime was,
Speaker 1: tell them what the crime was, who the victims were,
Speaker 1: who you think the perpetrators are. I thought it could
Speaker 1: have been done a much more streamlined and more effectively.
Speaker 1: I was thinking to myself, oh my god, or these
Speaker 1: jurors going to be confused, but had to be overwhelming.
Speaker 1: Much has been made about Angie Caneppa's maybe being too
Speaker 1: long winded, or she's giving so much information that to
Speaker 1: your earlier point, it would be really hard for a
Speaker 1: juror to kind of track all of these details at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. Mike Allen had a different take.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people lawyers too that I see,
Speaker 1: had said, Man, how could she had given such a
Speaker 1: long opening statement? You know, she probably lost the jury
Speaker 1: and opening statements are never usually that long from the prosecutor. However,
Speaker 1: in this case, there is so much that she had
Speaker 1: to unpack and tell that jury, and I was there
Speaker 1: that day. I watched it. She did not lose that jury.
Speaker 1: She didn't. They were just transfixed by what she was
Speaker 1: telling them. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. I'm
Speaker 1: Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends.
Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few
Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He chouked into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whatney hell is
Speaker 1: going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted
Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just
Speaker 1: a really terrible immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that lineouts ricin, arn't ricin, And somebody
Speaker 1: needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth,
Speaker 1: like this is evil and the only person who can
Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to
Speaker 1: sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, thinks are going to happen to
Speaker 1: speak out disgrace to our good. Evil should be prosecuted
Speaker 1: when power corrupts. Conscience is the last line of defense.
Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of
Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning
Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to
Speaker 1: touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have
Speaker 1: been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing as evil.
Speaker 1: They will take things away. And I can only hope
Speaker 1: that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, Grol, you
Speaker 1: and I both know what it took to just get
Speaker 1: through the day in New York City and get home
Speaker 1: in one piece. And so the fact that we're here
Speaker 1: and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,
Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.
Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,
Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking
Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share.
Speaker 1: On the Best Podcast Ever with Raven and Miranda, you'll
Speaker 1: hear well the best podcast Ever. Join Raven Simone and
Speaker 1: her partner Miranda may Day as they let the Wheel
Speaker 1: of Words determine the topic of that week's show. Every
Speaker 1: episode will spend a wheel of random words from things
Speaker 1: like animosity, to something like Zodiac and whatever it lands on,
Speaker 1: that's what we're going to talk about for around an hour.
Speaker 1: I think we can't do it. Well, then you've never
Speaker 1: heard us talk. Each week, Raven and Miranda and celebrity
Speaker 1: guests like Demi Levado, Kiki Palmer and Megan Trainer will
Speaker 1: spend the Fateful Wheel and then the conversation will begin. Also,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a ton of amazing guests because you
Speaker 1: don't want to just hear us to all the time.
Speaker 1: Do yes, you do? And somehow We're going to start
Speaker 1: with something like Spider and end with well, when was
Speaker 1: your last nervous breakdown? Listen to the Best podcast Ever
Speaker 1: with Raven and Miranda on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can up
Speaker 1: and may already be planting seeds. One of the more
Speaker 1: eviting aspects of the opening statement is about the evidence
Speaker 1: the jury will see in coming weeks. On the day
Speaker 1: after the Wagners left for Alaska, search warrants were already
Speaker 1: in place and police were combing the property for evidence.
Speaker 1: A neighbor approached them and offered up a tip. The
Speaker 1: Wagner family had put all of their belongings and trailers
Speaker 1: and parked them off Route forty one. When please search
Speaker 1: these trailers, they found a gold mine. In a plastic
Speaker 1: tub labeled quote important Things. They found custody documents and more.
Speaker 1: And by custody documents, I mean documents that one would
Speaker 1: fill out so that if anything happened to you, your
Speaker 1: children would go to somebody. So there were documents that
Speaker 1: purported to be signed by Hannah May that said if
Speaker 1: I die, I want my child to go to Jake Right.
Speaker 1: That piece of paper was dated as if Hannah May
Speaker 1: had signed it on December twenty fourth of twenty fourteen
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve twenty fourteen, which was really the last holiday
Speaker 1: that she spent with the Wagner's. As she lays this
Speaker 1: out to the jury, you can hear confidence in Kneppa's voice.
Speaker 1: She stares them directly in the eye. The problem with that,
Speaker 1: first of all, was that our handwriting people looked at
Speaker 1: it and said that Hannah May likely did not sign
Speaker 1: that thing. But more importantly, it was printed off the
Speaker 1: computer on April third, two thousand and sixteen. That piece
Speaker 1: of paper didn't even exist until April third or two sixteen,
Speaker 1: so it could not have been filled out in December
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen April third of two thousand and sixteen, just
Speaker 1: a little over two weeks before the homicides. They're printing
Speaker 1: this out so that if Hannah May would unexpectedly meet
Speaker 1: the end would go to Jake. But what they found
Speaker 1: next speaks to the question of who might be the
Speaker 1: instigator of the entire massacre. But there were two other
Speaker 1: documents that we found on that day which are extremely telling.
Speaker 1: There were two documents, one that Jake filled out and
Speaker 1: one that George filled out, and they were dated, I
Speaker 1: believe in twenty fifteen March of twenty fifteen. But they
Speaker 1: said for Jakes, if he dies and goes to Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: not Hannah May, almost like they knew Hannah May wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be alive. That's one George Wagner also fills
Speaker 1: out a custody document that if something happens to him
Speaker 1: on the night of the murders, his child will go
Speaker 1: to his mother. So they were anticipating whether they got arrested,
Speaker 1: caught in the middle the act, or something worse. They
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that custody of their children was
Speaker 1: secure On April third, twenty sixteen. All three of those
Speaker 1: documents were printed out and filled out and signed Angeanette Levy.
Speaker 1: We know that there were custody documents drawn up that
Speaker 1: gave custody of Jake and Hannamey's daughter to Angela. Should
Speaker 1: anything happen to Jake or George, Maybe, and I say maybe,
Speaker 1: because I don't know. You make it look like Jake
Speaker 1: did this and it was a murder suicide. Or maybe
Speaker 1: you just take him out because you want custody your
Speaker 1: granddaughter all to yourself. You make him do the dirty work.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but Billy is obviously somebody who's been
Speaker 1: described by Jeff Tackett and other people as somebody who's
Speaker 1: capable of violence. For sure, kill your own kid. We're
Speaker 1: going from more demented to more demented. Angela did not
Speaker 1: minimize her own involvement. In fact, she will tell you
Speaker 1: that it was her idea to begin with, and that
Speaker 1: she nagged and nagged nagged Billy to figure out a
Speaker 1: solution to the problem, the problem being that we're losing
Speaker 1: control of the prosecution has argued that you know this
Speaker 1: was a family affair, that it was all for one
Speaker 1: one for all. George Wagner of the Force lawyers disputed
Speaker 1: almost all of that. They also pointed out that their client,
Speaker 1: despite phasing eight aggravated murder charges, is not believed to
Speaker 1: have killed anyone. George is an outsider. George does not
Speaker 1: go along with what his family does, and he didn't
Speaker 1: do it on that night. George is not guilty of murder,
Speaker 1: and we believe when you've heard all of the evidence,
Speaker 1: you will agree George had no part in this murder
Speaker 1: much you'll find him not guilty. More on that next time.
Speaker 1: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pipes and
Speaker 1: Maskers produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Scott
Speaker 1: de Graw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and
Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. The
Speaker 1: Pike Damasker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast
Speaker 1: called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas. It's the nineteen
Speaker 1: nineties and it is time to find a husband. There
Speaker 1: were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors.
Speaker 1: One of them one of the spot Baron Bout. On paper,
Speaker 1: he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko.
Speaker 1: He choked into the point she went unconscious. I would
Speaker 1: call him and I would say, I know you killed
Speaker 1: my sister. You can listen to the girl Friends on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me.
Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name
Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a
Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression,
Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race
Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was
Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily.
Speaker 1: For years, I've been on the road playing shows and
Speaker 1: seeing America through live music. This summer I'll hit the stage.
Speaker 1: Who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten Cities
Speaker 1: twelve episodes, every other Thursday, we explore the live music,
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Speaker 1: new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues
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Speaker 1: years building and working at some of the largest companies
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Speaker 1: That is a R D HI and s R I
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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.