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Speaker 1: I have to go down there. I have to confront her.

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Speaker 2: I have to see her, and I remember yelling at

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Speaker 2: her like, how.

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Speaker 1: Could you do this? How could you do this to

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Speaker 1: our family?

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Speaker 3: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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Speaker 3: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 3: change everything. This is part two of Matt and Laura's story.

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Speaker 3: If you haven't heard part one, you'll want to go

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Speaker 3: back and listen to that first. Matt and Laura Trade

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Speaker 3: went through years of infertility treatment IVF, miscarriages, and a

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Speaker 3: high risk pregnancy to have their son, Hudson. Soon after

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Speaker 3: they knew they wanted another child, they decided to pursue adoption.

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Speaker 3: That's how they met Elizabeth Jones. Elizabeth thought the Traits

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Speaker 3: would be great adoptive parents to her unborn baby. After

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Speaker 3: talking daily and visiting Elizabeth in Virginia, they both agreed

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Speaker 3: that it was a perfect match for an open adoption.

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Speaker 3: The baby was due in December of twenty eighteen, and

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Speaker 3: the Trades had picked out a name for her, Noela

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Speaker 3: and Elizabeth, the birth mom, already felt like extended family.

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Speaker 3: A month before the baby was due, Elizabeth went into

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Speaker 3: labor early. It was an emergency. Something wasn't right. Matt

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Speaker 3: and Laura rushed to the hospital. The nurses weren't able

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Speaker 3: to find a patient by the name Elizabeth Jones in

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Speaker 3: the maternity.

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Speaker 4: Ward, but there was one in the er, so we

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Speaker 4: went into the hospital room and I remember the curtain

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Speaker 4: was drawn.

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Speaker 5: I can just picture in my mind.

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Speaker 4: Like I was there seeing the nurse moved the curtain

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Speaker 4: and there's our Elizabeth sitting there and all of her clothes.

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Speaker 4: So I was so confused. I was like, Elizabeth, Oh

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Speaker 4: my god, are you okay?

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Speaker 5: What's happening? Why are you in your regular clothes?

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Speaker 4: And she just tried to explain it away, you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 4: we brought a change of clothes for me in the car.

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Speaker 5: Everything was all bloody, so I had to change. I

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Speaker 5: was like, where is the baby, Like, what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth explained that her husband was on his way up

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Speaker 3: to the maternity ward with the baby, and.

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Speaker 4: I was like, I was just up there waiting. We're

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Speaker 4: all waiting. There's a whole team of doctors waiting, and

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Speaker 4: we didn't see the baby. Like I have to go

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Speaker 4: talk to the nurses and try to figure out what's

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Speaker 4: going on. So I was walking away, and I remember

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Speaker 4: her calling my name, but I just kept walking.

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Speaker 3: A horrible truth was setting in for Laura, a truth

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Speaker 3: she couldn't process. She went to the nurses station in

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Speaker 3: a daze.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, I don't understand whats going on.

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Speaker 4: She's supposed to be giving birth to our daughter. Her

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Speaker 4: case manager was like, let me go talk to her.

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Speaker 5: She came back.

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Speaker 4: She was like, she's saying she doesn't even know you.

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Speaker 4: She's saying she has no idea who you are.

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Speaker 3: Laura fumbled to find her phone to show the nurse

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Speaker 3: photos of them together, photos from as recent as yesterday.

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Speaker 4: There's even a picture of my son with his hand

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Speaker 4: on her stomach because she had told him, oh.

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Speaker 5: You want to feel your sissy kick.

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Speaker 3: That's when another nurse stepped in and told Laura the truth,

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Speaker 3: the truth. Elizabeth couldn't bring herself to say.

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Speaker 5: I just remember the nurse telling me she's not pregnant.

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Speaker 3: There was no baby. There never had been. Laura walked

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Speaker 3: right back into the exam room to confront her.

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Speaker 4: I just looked at her and I was like, how

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Speaker 4: could you lie to us like this? How could you

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Speaker 4: do this? How could you do this to our son.

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Speaker 4: She just looked at me with these blank, dead eyes,

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Speaker 4: no emotion, no remorse, just complete blank expression on her face.

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Speaker 4: At that point, she was silent, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: you know what, Elizabeth, what goes around comes around, and

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Speaker 4: this is going to come back to you, like you're

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Speaker 4: going to get what you give, and I just walked out.

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Speaker 4: I just didn't even want to face her anymore. I

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Speaker 4: didn't want to look into those dead eyes.

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Speaker 3: All the while, Matt was still upstairs with Hudson and

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Speaker 3: an empty baby carrier, waiting for an update from Laura.

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Speaker 2: We're sitting up there and the minutes are just crawling by,

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Speaker 2: and I have no idea what's going on, and I'm

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Speaker 2: texting Laura for information and not hearing anything because she's

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Speaker 2: in the thick of all of.

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Speaker 1: This, and just waiting and waiting.

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Speaker 2: I remember Laura coming back up and entering the Nicky

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Speaker 2: Way room with no baby, and she just had this look.

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Speaker 1: On her face.

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Speaker 4: I remember saying, there is no baby and she was

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Speaker 4: never pregnant. I remember Matt tearing up at that point

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Speaker 4: and us all embracing as a family.

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Speaker 3: Matt couldn't leave the hospital without seeing Elizabeth for himself.

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Speaker 2: I didn't get closure. You know, I wasn't the one

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Speaker 2: down in the er like Laura was, and so I said,

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Speaker 2: I have to go down there. I have to confront her.

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Speaker 2: I have to see her. And so the three of

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Speaker 2: us went down to the er, and it just so

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Speaker 2: happened the right when we got down to the waiting room,

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Speaker 2: she started to come out the door because she was released,

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Speaker 2: and she saw us and looked at us and started

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Speaker 2: to kind of turn the other way. And I remember

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Speaker 2: yelling at her, how could you do this? And how

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Speaker 2: could you do this to our family? And just wanted

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Speaker 2: to follow her, you know, but she knew going back

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Speaker 2: into that er.

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Speaker 1: We weren't able to go back.

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Speaker 2: There because we weren't patience, and you know, I think

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Speaker 2: she escaped out the back door.

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Speaker 1: At that point.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to chase after her even more, but my

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Speaker 2: family needed me.

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Speaker 3: His family did need him. Hudson, wearing his Big Brother

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Speaker 3: T shirt, seemed confused. Nothing hurt the Traits more than

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Speaker 3: watching their son lose a piece of his innocence in

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Speaker 3: that moment.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's hard to talk about that because that's

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Speaker 4: six years old. At that moment, you have to explain

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Speaker 4: to him that there are people out there in the

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Speaker 4: world that are not nice, not good people that would

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Speaker 4: hurt others like this. I just I'll never forget Petson

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Speaker 4: with his question like it was a trick. Why would

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Speaker 4: someone trick us just such an innocent question?

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Speaker 3: It was an innocent question. Won that on some level

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Speaker 3: Matt and Laura had too.

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Speaker 4: After the fact, she got interviewed by the News. She

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Speaker 4: told them that she wanted us to feel her pain.

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Speaker 4: And I think by that she meant maybe from her

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Speaker 4: own childhood, things that happened to her. You know her

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Speaker 4: people hurt people, but I don't know. She wanted us

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Speaker 4: to feel her pain. That's what she said.

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Speaker 3: That's the closest the traits would ever come to an

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Speaker 3: answer about why Elizabeth deceived them. She wanted someone else

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Speaker 3: to feel the pain she felt inside. That was the

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Speaker 3: only explanation for why she took it so far.

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Speaker 2: At any point during this whole thing, she could have

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Speaker 2: ended it. Laura tried so many times to convince her

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Speaker 2: to keep the baby, the baby would be best with her,

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Speaker 2: and she have not shown up to the hospital right.

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Speaker 6: But the fact that she chose to show up at

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Speaker 6: the hospital where she knew that we would be to

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Speaker 6: check herself in, to tell us that she was in

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Speaker 6: the er for us to go down for that very.

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Speaker 2: Moment of seeing us in pain, to inflict emotional suffering

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Speaker 2: on us like that, that's the only thing that we

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Speaker 2: can think of was the end goal in that moment

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Speaker 2: for her, because obviously she knew at some point she

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Speaker 2: was going to get found out.

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Speaker 5: The extent to which she brought it was just cruel.

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Speaker 4: And in my mind, just an evil thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Almost immediately they started to think back on the last

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Speaker 3: few months and they saw it all in a new

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Speaker 3: horrible light. The woman they'd spent months building a relationship with,

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Speaker 3: expecting to have as a lifelong family member, was faking

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Speaker 3: her pregnancy. The whole time.

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Speaker 5: She physically looked pregnant.

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Speaker 4: She just had that body type where she looked like

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Speaker 4: she could have been pregnant, and I really thought she

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Speaker 4: was pregnant.

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Speaker 2: She sent us videos, you know, where she'd looked up

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Speaker 2: her shirt and video what you know, look at babykick.

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Speaker 4: I actually remember her being like, yeah, feel your baby pick, like,

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Speaker 4: put your hand in my stomach. And I never did

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Speaker 4: feel the baby pick obviously.

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Speaker 3: But what about the ulder soound photos and the stuffed

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Speaker 3: unicorn with a recording of the baby's heartbeat.

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Speaker 4: I think it was probably her other kid's ultrasounds, and

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Speaker 4: or the heartbeat might have been from one of her

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Speaker 4: other kids.

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Speaker 3: As for Elizabeth's husband, they can only guess.

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Speaker 2: I think he honestly had no idea she was doing this.

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Speaker 2: She was not involving him at all.

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Speaker 4: He traveled a lot for work, so when we were

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Speaker 4: there at their house, we never met him. I don't

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Speaker 4: think he knew that she had reached out to us.

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Speaker 4: I don't think he knew what she was doing.

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Speaker 3: Did she even have a husband at all. Some parts

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Speaker 3: of the elaborate deception are still a mystery.

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Speaker 4: I don't know where she got the pictures of the blood.

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Speaker 4: I have no idea where she got those pictures.

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Speaker 3: Matt and law Trait were in the waiting room of

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Speaker 3: the er with their six year old, reeling from the

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Speaker 3: news that the daughter they were expecting to adopt never

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Speaker 3: existed at all. All morning, their phones were blowing up

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Speaker 3: messages from family and friends wanting updates about Noela.

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Speaker 2: I remember sending a message, you know, there is no baby,

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Speaker 2: and having to sort of explain that, but at the

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Speaker 2: same time not really wanting to talk to anybody about it,

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Speaker 2: and just other shock from everybody. We all just kind

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Speaker 2: of had this moment together. Obviously, there are situations and

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Speaker 2: adoption where you expect, you know, possibly the birth mother

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Speaker 2: to change your mind and you decide to keep the baby.

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Speaker 1: But this was so different.

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Speaker 2: We worked so hard to reach this moment, to finally

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Speaker 2: be able to adopt, and thought the dream was finally

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Speaker 2: coming true.

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Speaker 3: Leaving the hospital that day, they got into a fender

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Speaker 3: bender in their rental car. It was one of those

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Speaker 3: absurd moments in life. I can't imagine what Matt and

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Speaker 3: Laura were thinking on hold with the insurance company while

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Speaker 3: staring in disbelief at the empty car seat. After what

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Speaker 3: felt like an eternity, they finally got back to their airbnb.

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Speaker 2: At that point, something switched in us and we immediately

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Speaker 2: went into attack mode.

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Speaker 1: We can't let someone get away with this.

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Speaker 2: You can't let someone emotionally abuse you like that and

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Speaker 2: just lay down and take it. And so back at

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Speaker 2: their BnB, we started immediately making phone calls to the

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Speaker 2: sheriff's apartment to I mean, anybody that would listen, and.

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Speaker 4: I remember the sheriff saying, well, it's not a crime

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Speaker 4: to hurt someone's feeling.

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Speaker 3: That comment sent them over the edge, spurred them into

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Speaker 3: a level of action they didn't even know they were

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Speaker 3: capable of. This was more than a case of hurt feelings,

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Speaker 3: and they were going to prove it.

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Speaker 2: I think as a lesson to Hudson, He's obviously watching

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Speaker 2: how we're reacting to all of this, and it was

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Speaker 2: so important for us to have him know that we

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Speaker 2: were going to do something about this, that it's important

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Speaker 2: in life to stand up for what's right and to

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Speaker 2: stand up for what you believe in rather than just

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Speaker 2: cowering in a corner and just letting it defeat you.

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Speaker 2: And in a way, I think that was cathartic because

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Speaker 2: it was a.

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Speaker 4: Way for us to take our power back because it

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Speaker 4: felt like a really powerless situation.

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Speaker 3: So they just kept making phone calls.

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Speaker 4: I remember calling Child Protective Services to let them know

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Speaker 4: what was happening. I just felt like she was not

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Speaker 4: mentally stable and I was really concerned about her kids,

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Speaker 4: and we were calling like the district Attorney's office, just

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Speaker 4: anybody that would listen.

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Speaker 2: Really, I want to credit Laura because she was the

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Speaker 2: one who was at home. Hudson went back to school,

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Speaker 2: I went back to work, and you know, she's at

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Speaker 2: home on the phone every single day. Reaching out to police,

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Speaker 2: reaching out to the Commonwealth Attorney is kind of like

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Speaker 2: trying to see what could happen.

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Speaker 3: And finally they found someone who would listen, someone who

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Speaker 3: had more information about Elizabeth Jones.

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Speaker 2: It was discovered through one of the detectives that she

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Speaker 2: was on probation for a credit card fraud and she

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Speaker 2: actually had an ankle bracelet.

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Speaker 1: The problem was every time.

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Speaker 2: That we saw her, well at the time Laura visited,

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Speaker 2: in the time that we were all out there, she

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Speaker 2: was wearing you know, big ugg boots and so it

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Speaker 2: wasn't possible to see the ankle bracelet on her. And

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Speaker 2: so from that point, I think charges kind of gained

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Speaker 2: steam because once it was determined that she was on probation,

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Speaker 2: the detective was able to finally do some work.

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Speaker 3: It was only because Elizabeth was on probation that the

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Speaker 3: trades had a chance to pursue criminal charges against her, and.

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Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, we have some traction, we have something

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Speaker 2: happening here. We might have an opportunity to be able

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Speaker 2: to hold her accountable for her crimes.

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Speaker 3: Accountability was important to them. After all, Elizabeth took more

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Speaker 3: than just a few thousand dollars. She took one of

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Speaker 3: their last chances at growing their family.

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Speaker 4: I had always thought that there was another baby out

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Speaker 4: there was meant to be a part of our family.

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Speaker 3: After everything they'd been through in their fertility journey. Elizabeth's

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Speaker 3: betrayal fundamentally changed Matt and Laura.

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Speaker 4: I never knew that people like that were e've been

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Speaker 4: out there that could go to those means to hurt

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Speaker 4: someone else. So the impact is that the adoption fraud

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Speaker 4: had on me personally. Wasn't just really scared me away

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Speaker 4: from pursuing any future opportunities. I was just really afraid

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Speaker 4: to get hurt again.

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Speaker 3: The trades still believe in adoption. They've heard many success stories,

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Speaker 3: but they were exhausted they couldn't keep trying. It's still

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Speaker 3: the thing that stings the most.

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Speaker 4: Maybe we weren't meant to have another child, but maybe

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Speaker 4: we were meant to help others.

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Speaker 3: And one way they're planning to help others is through

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Speaker 3: building an online community. It's called infertility noow dot com,

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Speaker 3: where they want to host resources, meeting groups, and online

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Speaker 3: courses for people going through infertility.

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Speaker 4: We're hoping to create a community of people who are

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Speaker 4: going through infertility, and we hope to offer classes to

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Speaker 4: them and kind of give guidance and teach people all

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Speaker 4: the different options there are out there for building a family,

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Speaker 4: and also just to be a support to people who

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Speaker 4: are going through it, because we know what it's like.

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Speaker 4: Infertility is really a lonely place to be.

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Speaker 3: Against all odds. And despite what the police had initially

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Speaker 3: told them, the Trades were finally able to pursue charges

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Speaker 3: against Elizabeth and find.

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Speaker 2: Justice March third of the following year, twenty nineteen. After

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Speaker 2: months of working, we were able to get nine felony

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Speaker 2: charges of obtaining money on false pretenses. As she was

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Speaker 2: on probation, so all of the times we took her

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Speaker 2: out for dinner or meals, buying her gifts, things like that,

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Speaker 2: they were able to make those charge.

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Speaker 1: That's because of her probation.

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Speaker 3: And remember those professional photos where Laura and Elizabeth are

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Speaker 3: wearing matching shirts. Those photos cost a few hundred dollars

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Speaker 3: and that expense was added to Elizabeth's felony charge.

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Speaker 5: At first, she had put not guilty, but.

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Speaker 3: Before the hearing, Elizabeth changed her plate. She was going

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Speaker 3: to plead guilty.

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Speaker 4: We were going to fly out there for the trial,

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Speaker 4: and we got a call from her lawyer saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: she's going to plead guilty.

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Speaker 5: You don't have to come out now.

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Speaker 4: It's okay, you don't need to come out, and we

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Speaker 4: were like, we're coming because at the last minute she

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Speaker 4: could change her mind, and we're still in California. We're

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Speaker 4: not there to speak for ourselves. So we're going to

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Speaker 4: make the trip and we're going to be there for

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Speaker 4: the trial. So we flew out there again. We faced

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Speaker 4: her in court.

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Speaker 2: At the beginning of the hearing. She ended up pleading

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Speaker 2: guilty rather than going to trial. She agreed to a

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Speaker 2: sentence of ten years, eight of which were suspended, so

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Speaker 2: she served two years in state prison, with the remaining

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Speaker 2: eight years to be added if she commits another crime

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Speaker 2: on top of that, and.

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Speaker 1: So we really felt like it was a victory.

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Speaker 2: I just remember standing out front of the courthouse, speaking

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Speaker 2: in front of the news conference and just how amazingly empowering.

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Speaker 1: It was that we didn't give up.

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Speaker 2: We were able to hold her accountable and show people

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Speaker 2: out there that it's not okay to do things like

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Speaker 2: this to people.

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Speaker 4: Felt like we had closure to that part of our life.

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Speaker 4: We had gotten our power back, and so we felt

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Speaker 4: like we could take on the future and we could

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Speaker 4: move on.

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Speaker 3: After seeing Elizabeth sentenced to two years for the fraud

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Speaker 3: she committed, the traits still weren't done. They knew that

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Speaker 3: they only got justice because their perpetrator happened to be

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Speaker 3: on probation. So they worked with Virginia's Deputy Attorney General

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Speaker 3: to write a new law.

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Speaker 2: It officially became Senate Bill one zero zero three that

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Speaker 2: made it a crime to lie in electronic communications during

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Speaker 2: a business transaction. So the crime is actually punishable by

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Speaker 2: up to a year in jail and a twenty five.

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Speaker 1: Hundred dollars fine.

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Speaker 2: So it went into effect in Virginia on July first

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, and it was named after US trades

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Speaker 2: Law in that sense of pride and accomplishment.

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Speaker 1: You know, like a sense of legacy.

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Speaker 2: We're making a difference in the world and helping people,

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Speaker 2: and so we were really proud of that.

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Speaker 3: They say that trades Law in Virginia is just the beginning,

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Speaker 3: one small step towards very necessary adoption reform and regulation

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Speaker 3: in the United States.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like the wild West out there. It's

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Speaker 2: a multi billion dollar industry. There are so many desperate

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Speaker 2: families as well as desperate birth mothers, and I think

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Speaker 2: the adoption industry as a whole praise on these desperate

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Speaker 2: people who don't know where else to turn to.

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Speaker 1: Costs are through the roof and there needs to be

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Speaker 1: more oversight.

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Speaker 3: One of the reasons the Traits initially decided to go

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Speaker 3: public with their story was to help educate other adoptive

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Speaker 3: families about their rights. At the time, they tried to

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Speaker 3: get pregnancy verification, something signed and dated.

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Speaker 2: By a doctor, we were told that there was nothing

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Speaker 2: that could be done on our end until after the

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Speaker 2: baby was born, which we found kind of strange and

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Speaker 2: very frustrating. That led us to reaching out to try

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Speaker 2: to get a hold of someone to get pregnancy verification,

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Speaker 2: and either people wouldn't return our calls or they told

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Speaker 2: us we didn't have the authority to get that information

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Speaker 2: from them.

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Speaker 3: Since this happened, they've learned adoptive parents do have legal

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Speaker 3: rights to pregnancy verification, So.

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Speaker 2: We want to let families know you have a right

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Speaker 2: to that as an adoptive parent, and that's one of

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Speaker 2: the first things that you should do is try to

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Speaker 2: get a pregnancy verification.

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Speaker 3: They don't want anyone else to have to learn these

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Speaker 3: lessons the way they.

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Speaker 4: Did, And I'd say one of the most important things

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Speaker 4: is to listen to your gut, because if I had

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Speaker 4: listened to my gut instead of giving her the butt,

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Speaker 4: I'm a doubt just trying to see it from her side,

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Speaker 4: you know, empathetic if you feel like something is off.

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Speaker 5: Just trust your intuition.

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Speaker 3: It's been a few years since the adoption fraud, and

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Speaker 3: since then they've spent the time healing as a family.

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Speaker 3: Matt says that instead of letting this betrayal break them,

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Speaker 3: it's brought their family unit closer together.

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Speaker 2: One of my biggest takeaways for this is just how

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Speaker 2: strong we are as a family and as a couple.

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Speaker 2: I mean, rates in this country are sky high, especially

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Speaker 2: divorces within the infertility community, because of the emotional toll

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Speaker 2: that it takes on couples.

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Speaker 1: And I just look back at how much Laura.

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Speaker 2: And I have been through together and how much we

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Speaker 2: support each other, and just how strong we still are

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Speaker 2: in coming through all of this together. I couldn't have

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Speaker 2: made it through without her. I'm very grateful for her

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Speaker 2: and for Hudson.

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Speaker 4: Hudson was meant to be our son and our one

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Speaker 4: and only child, and that dream of having a going

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Speaker 4: for him is something that I try to fill it

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Speaker 4: in other ways. We're always meeting up with friends. He

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Speaker 4: has tons of cousins, so he spends a lot of

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Speaker 4: time with them. He's also very empathetic. He really is

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Speaker 4: aware of other people's feelings and how his words affect

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Speaker 4: other people, and I'm really proud of that part of him.

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Speaker 5: He is a really good person.

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Speaker 3: On our video call with Laura and Matt, Laura had

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Speaker 3: one of Hudson's drowings up on the wall next to

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Speaker 3: her bed. Our producer Mo asked her about it.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 4: It's counting the ways I Love you, and it has

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Speaker 4: like his little handprint on it in blue crayon, and

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Speaker 4: each finger has something so it says you love me,

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Speaker 4: playing games, going to school with me, family, hugs and snuggling,

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Speaker 4: and then in the center of the little handprint is

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Speaker 4: a little red heart.

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Speaker 5: That's a thank you.

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Speaker 4: I think that helps me too, because I right not

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Speaker 4: to take for granted how lucky I am. That's a

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00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 4: good reminder just to like really churesh the things that

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Speaker 4: you do have.

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Speaker 3: We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question,

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Speaker 3: why did you want to tell your story? This is

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00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 3: what Matt says.

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to share our story because there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of people out there who are victims

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Speaker 2: of emotional abuse. Because that's what our story is, is

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Speaker 2: emotional abuse. And you know, as much as that affects you,

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00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: it's so important to not take it lying down, you know,

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Speaker 2: to try to stand up for yourself and do something

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Speaker 2: about it. Emotional abuse can be a crime, as we've

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Speaker 2: proven here, and I know a lot of your listeners

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Speaker 2: are victims of emotional abuse or familiar with that. And

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Speaker 2: just people understanding that they're not alone, that there are

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Speaker 2: lots of other people out there that are going through

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Speaker 2: something similar. You never know what someone is dealing with

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Speaker 2: on the inside.

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Speaker 4: And for Laura, just that feeling that you're not alone

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00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 4: helps so much when you're going through something like this.

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00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 4: Infertility is such a lonely journey and it's important that

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00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 4: you surround yourself with other people that are going through

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00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 4: the same situation. You can learn from each other. Not

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00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 4: everybody wants to share their story, but for us, it's

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00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 4: really important that we do something positive with our experience,

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Speaker 4: so something good can come of this.

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Speaker 3: On the next episode of Betrayal.

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Speaker 7: She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police

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00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 7: calls her after they kill me.

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Speaker 3: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal

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00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email

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Speaker 3: us at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal

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Speaker 3: pod at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to

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Speaker 3: follow us at Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all Betrayal content,

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Speaker 3: news and updates. We're grateful for your support. One way

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Speaker 3: to show support is by subscribing to our show on

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Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

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Speaker 3: Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank

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Speaker 3: you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production

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Speaker 3: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in

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00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 3: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by

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Speaker 3: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me

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Speaker 3: Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, also produced

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Speaker 3: by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers on this episode are Kristen

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Speaker 3: Melcurie Caitlin Golden and Grace Bollinger. Our iHeart team is

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00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 3: Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by

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00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 3: Matt del Vecchio and Nico Ruka. Betrayal's theme composed by

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00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by my Music and For

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Speaker 3: more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts