WEBVTT - BONUS: How Small Businesses Endure for Generations

0:00:14.956 --> 0:00:32.716
<v Speaker 1>Pushkin Hey everyone. In honor of Small Business Week, I

0:00:32.796 --> 0:00:36.436
<v Speaker 1>sat down with Ben Walter, the CEO of Chase for Business.

0:00:36.996 --> 0:00:40.676
<v Speaker 1>He's also the host of the Unshakables podcast, where small

0:00:40.796 --> 0:00:44.396
<v Speaker 1>business owners share the defining moments that tested them and

0:00:44.436 --> 0:00:47.356
<v Speaker 1>how they found a way through at a moment when

0:00:47.436 --> 0:00:50.956
<v Speaker 1>so much can feel uncertain. We talked about those comforting

0:00:50.996 --> 0:00:55.116
<v Speaker 1>places that hold steady in a sea of change. Maybe

0:00:55.116 --> 0:00:59.156
<v Speaker 1>it's a neighborhood market or a family run restaurant, somewhere

0:00:59.196 --> 0:01:03.276
<v Speaker 1>that feels familiar and keeps you coming back year after year.

0:01:03.796 --> 0:01:07.316
<v Speaker 1>I find it fascinating how local spots like these seem

0:01:07.396 --> 0:01:10.716
<v Speaker 1>to carry the history of a neighbor with them, even

0:01:10.716 --> 0:01:15.196
<v Speaker 1>as the neighborhood itself changes. Recently, Ben sat down with

0:01:15.236 --> 0:01:19.276
<v Speaker 1>the family behind Borgottis, Ravioli and egg Noodle for his podcast,

0:01:19.956 --> 0:01:22.556
<v Speaker 1>It's a family run pasta shop that's been on Arthur

0:01:22.596 --> 0:01:26.356
<v Speaker 1>Avenue in the Bronx for nearly a century. Arthur Avenue,

0:01:26.636 --> 0:01:29.556
<v Speaker 1>known as the Boroughs Little Italy, has long been a

0:01:29.636 --> 0:01:33.556
<v Speaker 1>hub for Italian American businesses and culture, But like many

0:01:33.556 --> 0:01:37.596
<v Speaker 1>neighborhoods in New York and beyond, it's constantly evolving. As

0:01:37.676 --> 0:01:41.796
<v Speaker 1>longtime residents move out and new communities move in. I

0:01:41.876 --> 0:01:43.916
<v Speaker 1>wanted to talk to Ben about how a place like

0:01:43.956 --> 0:01:47.836
<v Speaker 1>Borgottis doesn't just survive, but stays true to itself, how

0:01:47.876 --> 0:01:51.036
<v Speaker 1>it maintains its character over time, what it holds on too,

0:01:51.636 --> 0:01:55.076
<v Speaker 1>and where and when it's willing to adapt. I hope

0:01:55.076 --> 0:01:58.196
<v Speaker 1>this conversation gets you thinking about the special places in

0:01:58.236 --> 0:02:03.676
<v Speaker 1>your community, the change they've outlasted, and the stories they carry. Okay,

0:02:03.876 --> 0:02:05.476
<v Speaker 1>here's my conversation with Ben.

0:02:06.796 --> 0:02:10.636
<v Speaker 2>When you meet a business like Borgoeis, you really get

0:02:10.676 --> 0:02:13.876
<v Speaker 2>a sense of a business that has this larger purpose,

0:02:13.916 --> 0:02:15.716
<v Speaker 2>both in terms of the role that it has played

0:02:15.716 --> 0:02:17.836
<v Speaker 2>in the family and the role that it's played in

0:02:17.876 --> 0:02:22.516
<v Speaker 2>its community. I think it represents sort of a constant

0:02:22.556 --> 0:02:24.476
<v Speaker 2>in a sea of change. You know, there are families

0:02:24.476 --> 0:02:28.876
<v Speaker 2>who've been getting their holiday meal from Borgatti's for you know,

0:02:29.076 --> 0:02:32.716
<v Speaker 2>over fifty years. You have people who remember eating that

0:02:32.836 --> 0:02:35.596
<v Speaker 2>at you know, at Christmas at their grandmothers fifty years ago,

0:02:35.636 --> 0:02:38.316
<v Speaker 2>who are still serving the same meal today. And in

0:02:38.356 --> 0:02:41.116
<v Speaker 2>a world that feels topsy turvy and you know, changing

0:02:41.116 --> 0:02:42.996
<v Speaker 2>faster than ever, I think that brings a source of

0:02:42.996 --> 0:02:43.756
<v Speaker 2>comfort to many.

0:02:44.356 --> 0:02:48.076
<v Speaker 1>There's a reason places like Burgottis can feel so emotionally grounding.

0:02:48.636 --> 0:02:52.516
<v Speaker 1>Familiar environments contribute to our sense of stability. They remind

0:02:52.596 --> 0:02:54.956
<v Speaker 1>us who we are and where we come from. That

0:02:54.956 --> 0:02:58.796
<v Speaker 1>can be especially powerful during moments of uncertainty, when our

0:02:58.836 --> 0:03:01.476
<v Speaker 1>brain is looking for cues that the world is still

0:03:01.596 --> 0:03:05.676
<v Speaker 1>somewhat predictable. A beloved community business can become one of

0:03:05.716 --> 0:03:10.596
<v Speaker 1>those stabilizing cues. What elements have endured at borgottis over time,

0:03:10.956 --> 0:03:16.116
<v Speaker 1>So whether it's recipes or processes or rituals with customers.

0:03:16.276 --> 0:03:19.876
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's absolutely still the original recipes from I

0:03:19.876 --> 0:03:23.756
<v Speaker 2>guess the fourth generation's great great grandmother. They still serve

0:03:23.876 --> 0:03:27.316
<v Speaker 2>many of the original families as customers that they did

0:03:27.396 --> 0:03:31.156
<v Speaker 2>all those years ago, and they've maintained their absolute commitment

0:03:31.276 --> 0:03:34.396
<v Speaker 2>to quality. They don't cheap out on the ingredients, they

0:03:34.476 --> 0:03:37.436
<v Speaker 2>don't short circuit the process. They make them the way

0:03:37.476 --> 0:03:40.316
<v Speaker 2>that they were always made, with a focus on really

0:03:40.356 --> 0:03:41.556
<v Speaker 2>quality product to the customer.

0:03:42.636 --> 0:03:46.996
<v Speaker 1>It takes a lot of effort to sustain, like you said,

0:03:47.036 --> 0:03:49.556
<v Speaker 1>the quality of a business over time, to make sure

0:03:49.596 --> 0:03:52.836
<v Speaker 1>you're not skimping when it comes to high quality ingredients

0:03:52.956 --> 0:03:56.756
<v Speaker 1>that you are allowing certain tried and tested processes to

0:03:56.796 --> 0:04:00.676
<v Speaker 1>remain in place, so a lot of investment involved in

0:04:00.956 --> 0:04:05.756
<v Speaker 1>keeping an establishment like Burgotti's the same over time. What

0:04:05.836 --> 0:04:08.236
<v Speaker 1>do you think are some of the biggest threats to

0:04:08.396 --> 0:04:10.676
<v Speaker 1>businesses like Borgotti's right now?

0:04:11.436 --> 0:04:14.156
<v Speaker 2>Funny enough, the number one threat they as a business

0:04:14.236 --> 0:04:16.276
<v Speaker 2>haven't faced, but I see clients face it all the

0:04:16.316 --> 0:04:18.436
<v Speaker 2>time is the threat that no one in the business

0:04:18.476 --> 0:04:22.036
<v Speaker 2>wants to keep going. Very often it was immigrant families

0:04:22.036 --> 0:04:24.436
<v Speaker 2>who started the business, and by the third generation, they're

0:04:24.436 --> 0:04:28.036
<v Speaker 2>just interested in a different life. So they are fortunate

0:04:28.076 --> 0:04:31.236
<v Speaker 2>to have a really tight knit family that has resisted that.

0:04:31.516 --> 0:04:35.996
<v Speaker 2>Number two is neighborhoods do shift. While they have been

0:04:35.996 --> 0:04:39.316
<v Speaker 2>able to compensate for it through their online sales, that

0:04:39.356 --> 0:04:41.156
<v Speaker 2>has been an issue so that, you know, many of

0:04:41.156 --> 0:04:44.196
<v Speaker 2>the original Italian American families have moved out of Little

0:04:44.196 --> 0:04:46.956
<v Speaker 2>Italy in the Bronx, so that the character of the

0:04:46.996 --> 0:04:51.436
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood has changed. And then finally, there's technology you can

0:04:51.476 --> 0:04:56.676
<v Speaker 2>get now decent quality ravioli that is high mass manufactured

0:04:56.796 --> 0:04:59.836
<v Speaker 2>that probably wasn't available when they started their shop, you know,

0:04:59.876 --> 0:05:02.316
<v Speaker 2>back in nineteen thirty five. Now I still think they

0:05:02.436 --> 0:05:04.956
<v Speaker 2>serve a superior product and I've had it. It's delicious

0:05:05.356 --> 0:05:07.796
<v Speaker 2>and it's handmade and it's artisanal, and there is a

0:05:07.836 --> 0:05:09.556
<v Speaker 2>desire for that. So they've been able to to lean

0:05:09.556 --> 0:05:12.556
<v Speaker 2>into that angle of it. But like any business, you know,

0:05:12.556 --> 0:05:15.796
<v Speaker 2>they're facing it. Whether it's a changing character of the neighborhood,

0:05:15.836 --> 0:05:21.236
<v Speaker 2>a changing character of the technological background, a changing narrative

0:05:21.276 --> 0:05:23.236
<v Speaker 2>of customer taste. You know, the world changes.

0:05:23.636 --> 0:05:26.316
<v Speaker 1>One of the hardest parts of adapting to change is

0:05:26.356 --> 0:05:29.076
<v Speaker 1>knowing what to keep as is and what to improve.

0:05:29.836 --> 0:05:33.876
<v Speaker 1>Flexibility means staying aligned to your deeper values while updating

0:05:33.916 --> 0:05:38.036
<v Speaker 1>your strategy as circumstances shift. For a small business owner,

0:05:38.276 --> 0:05:41.116
<v Speaker 1>that might mean holding on to the quality, care, or

0:05:41.156 --> 0:05:45.076
<v Speaker 1>purpose that drew customers in in the first place, while

0:05:45.116 --> 0:05:48.516
<v Speaker 1>also being open to new tools, new customers, and new

0:05:48.516 --> 0:05:52.636
<v Speaker 1>ways of reaching them. That balance between continuity and change

0:05:52.876 --> 0:05:56.156
<v Speaker 1>is often what resilience looks like. What do you think

0:05:56.156 --> 0:05:58.636
<v Speaker 1>are some of the magic ingredients that help a business

0:05:58.756 --> 0:06:00.276
<v Speaker 1>like the stick around for so long.

0:06:00.836 --> 0:06:03.516
<v Speaker 2>The number one is adaptability. It's a willingness to change,

0:06:03.716 --> 0:06:05.716
<v Speaker 2>but the ones who adapt are the ones who thrive.

0:06:06.116 --> 0:06:10.436
<v Speaker 2>I would say second is the absolute, unrelenting grit and

0:06:10.476 --> 0:06:14.676
<v Speaker 2>dedication of the owners. Yeah, it's force of will. I

0:06:14.676 --> 0:06:16.516
<v Speaker 2>mean these are businesses that have made it through COVID,

0:06:16.596 --> 0:06:18.756
<v Speaker 2>through the Great Recession, through all of these things, through

0:06:18.796 --> 0:06:21.716
<v Speaker 2>the Great Depression. In this case, that's frankly been probably

0:06:21.716 --> 0:06:23.796
<v Speaker 2>the most common trait of the people we've had on

0:06:23.836 --> 0:06:27.436
<v Speaker 2>our show, and Borgatt's itself is a great example. Their

0:06:27.516 --> 0:06:29.596
<v Speaker 2>key machine broke down at the most important time of

0:06:29.676 --> 0:06:31.756
<v Speaker 2>year and they had to figure out what to do.

0:06:32.556 --> 0:06:34.476
<v Speaker 2>And that's what small business owners do every day, is

0:06:34.476 --> 0:06:35.716
<v Speaker 2>they just find a way through.

0:06:36.396 --> 0:06:38.876
<v Speaker 1>How did they solve for this problem of the machine

0:06:38.876 --> 0:06:39.476
<v Speaker 1>breaking down.

0:06:40.476 --> 0:06:42.276
<v Speaker 2>They managed to get it fixed in time, but in

0:06:42.316 --> 0:06:44.036
<v Speaker 2>the meantime they were doing an awful lot of stuff

0:06:44.076 --> 0:06:45.676
<v Speaker 2>by hand. You'll have to listen to the episode to

0:06:45.676 --> 0:06:46.556
<v Speaker 2>get the full details.

0:06:47.156 --> 0:06:50.836
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we talked about adaptability, we talked about grit,

0:06:50.956 --> 0:06:55.596
<v Speaker 1>any other traits that you see across companies that somehow

0:06:55.636 --> 0:06:56.836
<v Speaker 1>find ways to endure.

0:06:57.276 --> 0:07:00.876
<v Speaker 2>The common thing is a commitment to something larger than

0:07:01.116 --> 0:07:05.236
<v Speaker 2>just this year's profit. If you were to talk to

0:07:05.516 --> 0:07:08.196
<v Speaker 2>any of the small businesses we have met that have

0:07:08.356 --> 0:07:11.596
<v Speaker 2>lasted for years and you ask them what the purpose

0:07:11.596 --> 0:07:14.156
<v Speaker 2>of their business is, none of them would talk about

0:07:14.196 --> 0:07:17.196
<v Speaker 2>to make money. None of them would talk about their financials.

0:07:17.436 --> 0:07:21.636
<v Speaker 2>They would all talk about the product or service that

0:07:21.676 --> 0:07:23.876
<v Speaker 2>they provide, the impact that has on the lives of

0:07:23.916 --> 0:07:27.316
<v Speaker 2>their customers and their communities. All of them and their

0:07:27.356 --> 0:07:30.316
<v Speaker 2>brands are all anchored in that. You cannot make a

0:07:30.356 --> 0:07:32.436
<v Speaker 2>business work without the dollars and cents, but it will

0:07:32.436 --> 0:07:35.596
<v Speaker 2>not last on dollars and cents only. So whether it's

0:07:35.676 --> 0:07:38.276
<v Speaker 2>mission driven, you know, we have businesses who are trying

0:07:38.276 --> 0:07:41.436
<v Speaker 2>to solve an environmental problem, or an energy problem, or

0:07:41.476 --> 0:07:44.396
<v Speaker 2>a health problem, or businesses like this that are trying

0:07:44.436 --> 0:07:46.596
<v Speaker 2>to sort of be part of the fabric of the community.

0:07:46.956 --> 0:07:49.636
<v Speaker 2>The ones who last are very rarely focused on this

0:07:49.756 --> 0:07:52.756
<v Speaker 2>quarter or even this year beyond sort of the near

0:07:52.876 --> 0:07:55.916
<v Speaker 2>term need to run the business. They're running something that

0:07:55.956 --> 0:07:58.716
<v Speaker 2>has a higher purpose, and that higher purpose is very personal.

0:07:59.116 --> 0:08:01.396
<v Speaker 2>So in the case of Borgatis, it's being part of

0:08:01.436 --> 0:08:02.076
<v Speaker 2>the neighborhood.

0:08:02.436 --> 0:08:06.276
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I want to talk a bit about how a

0:08:06.316 --> 0:08:10.596
<v Speaker 1>business like Burgottis can contribute to the identity of a community.

0:08:11.956 --> 0:08:16.036
<v Speaker 1>How do businesses like this one contribute to positive change

0:08:16.196 --> 0:08:16.716
<v Speaker 1>or growth.

0:08:17.516 --> 0:08:18.956
<v Speaker 2>I think they do it in a few ways. One

0:08:18.996 --> 0:08:22.716
<v Speaker 2>is they give the neighborhood a sense of place. If

0:08:22.716 --> 0:08:24.476
<v Speaker 2>you think about that neighborhood you grew up in where

0:08:24.476 --> 0:08:26.396
<v Speaker 2>there's that place that you always used to go to

0:08:26.436 --> 0:08:29.236
<v Speaker 2>and it's still there all those years later. That gives

0:08:29.236 --> 0:08:32.076
<v Speaker 2>the place an anchoring and it gives people confidence to

0:08:32.156 --> 0:08:35.476
<v Speaker 2>invest in that area. So that's number one. Number two,

0:08:35.756 --> 0:08:40.356
<v Speaker 2>I would say they support more than just their business.

0:08:40.396 --> 0:08:43.876
<v Speaker 2>So if you look across the country and survey after

0:08:43.916 --> 0:08:46.236
<v Speaker 2>survey reveals this, small business owners are some of the

0:08:46.276 --> 0:08:51.396
<v Speaker 2>most philanthropic people in their local communities. Who sponsors your

0:08:51.396 --> 0:08:54.236
<v Speaker 2>local softball team, it's the local business in the local

0:08:54.236 --> 0:08:57.756
<v Speaker 2>community who wants to have both a business and a

0:08:57.796 --> 0:09:01.636
<v Speaker 2>philanthropic impact at home, and they tend to reinvest directly

0:09:01.676 --> 0:09:05.276
<v Speaker 2>in their community. So small businesses, they don't just sell locally,

0:09:05.316 --> 0:09:09.716
<v Speaker 2>they hire locally. Yeah, and that's a self feeding positive

0:09:09.756 --> 0:09:12.436
<v Speaker 2>loop that helps neighborhoods thrive economically.

0:09:13.276 --> 0:09:17.516
<v Speaker 1>What then, is describing goes beyond economics. Relationships are what

0:09:17.596 --> 0:09:21.516
<v Speaker 1>transformed a collection of streets and buildings into a neighborhood,

0:09:22.036 --> 0:09:26.516
<v Speaker 1>and small businesses are where these relationships flourish, where people

0:09:26.596 --> 0:09:30.516
<v Speaker 1>go to gather and to build trusted friendships. Restaurants like

0:09:30.556 --> 0:09:33.556
<v Speaker 1>Borgatti's help create a feeling that a place is not

0:09:33.676 --> 0:09:37.396
<v Speaker 1>simply where you live, but where you belong. What do

0:09:37.396 --> 0:09:41.716
<v Speaker 1>you think communities lose when these kinds of small businesses disappear,

0:09:41.996 --> 0:09:45.476
<v Speaker 1>and what role do you think customers community members can

0:09:45.556 --> 0:09:47.396
<v Speaker 1>play in helping them survive.

0:09:48.836 --> 0:09:51.356
<v Speaker 2>When neighborhoods lose their small businesses, they lose their character.

0:09:51.956 --> 0:09:54.916
<v Speaker 2>It's that simple. And that doesn't just mean retail stores,

0:09:54.956 --> 0:09:57.396
<v Speaker 2>by the way. It can be the local law and

0:09:57.476 --> 0:10:01.236
<v Speaker 2>care shop, it can be the local doctor. Those businesses

0:10:01.476 --> 0:10:04.156
<v Speaker 2>know their local communities in a way that others can't.

0:10:04.476 --> 0:10:07.396
<v Speaker 2>They're able to respond to those communities in ways that

0:10:07.436 --> 0:10:09.276
<v Speaker 2>others can't. And when you lose that, you don't just

0:10:09.276 --> 0:10:12.156
<v Speaker 2>lose the character, you lose the permanence. There's so much

0:10:12.196 --> 0:10:15.516
<v Speaker 2>transience in the world today. A little bit of permanence

0:10:15.556 --> 0:10:16.916
<v Speaker 2>is a healthy counterbalance.

0:10:17.276 --> 0:10:20.876
<v Speaker 1>Couldn't agree more. It's definitely a stabilizing force. And it's

0:10:20.876 --> 0:10:23.716
<v Speaker 1>a long term relationship builder, you know it is.

0:10:23.836 --> 0:10:26.356
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I live in a small town outside New

0:10:26.436 --> 0:10:29.436
<v Speaker 2>York City. I know the dry cleaner personally, I walk in,

0:10:29.556 --> 0:10:31.596
<v Speaker 2>I hander my stuff. She knows that I don't like

0:10:31.596 --> 0:10:35.316
<v Speaker 2>starch on my shirts, you know, And that's comforting. And

0:10:35.356 --> 0:10:38.956
<v Speaker 2>these local communities drive social connection in a way that

0:10:39.356 --> 0:10:40.836
<v Speaker 2>goes beyond just friends and family.

0:10:41.436 --> 0:10:44.556
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we had the former US Surge in General on

0:10:44.596 --> 0:10:47.636
<v Speaker 1>a slight change of plans who talked about the loneliness

0:10:47.676 --> 0:10:51.236
<v Speaker 1>epidemic that we're all living through. And there's some really

0:10:51.236 --> 0:10:54.636
<v Speaker 1>compelling research from the happiness literature showing that it is

0:10:54.636 --> 0:10:59.476
<v Speaker 1>these small daily interactions with people in our community, not

0:10:59.636 --> 0:11:02.716
<v Speaker 1>even with our closest friends or our family, that really

0:11:03.156 --> 0:11:06.236
<v Speaker 1>help boost our sense of belonging. So the conversation with

0:11:06.276 --> 0:11:09.476
<v Speaker 1>the barista, the small interaction you might have at the

0:11:09.556 --> 0:11:13.476
<v Speaker 1>laundromat like you were describing, then these are part of

0:11:13.476 --> 0:11:16.476
<v Speaker 1>the fabric of our everyday lives and they really do

0:11:17.196 --> 0:11:20.516
<v Speaker 1>have a profound impact on our sets of well being

0:11:20.596 --> 0:11:21.636
<v Speaker 1>and social lives.

0:11:22.036 --> 0:11:24.156
<v Speaker 2>They do. And you also asked what can customers do.

0:11:24.196 --> 0:11:26.276
<v Speaker 2>Customers can support their local small businesses.

0:11:26.476 --> 0:11:29.596
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, our one of the little local supermarkets

0:11:30.076 --> 0:11:32.356
<v Speaker 1>was at risk of shutting down. And you do see

0:11:32.476 --> 0:11:36.396
<v Speaker 1>communities rally, whether it's to keep a local movie theater alive,

0:11:36.476 --> 0:11:39.396
<v Speaker 1>to keep a small grocery store alive. It's actually a

0:11:39.516 --> 0:11:42.316
<v Speaker 1>very uplifting thing when you see people say, you know what,

0:11:42.836 --> 0:11:46.436
<v Speaker 1>we are not willing to let this particular establishment go.

0:11:46.756 --> 0:11:49.596
<v Speaker 1>We'll do what it takes and it's petitions. It's making

0:11:49.596 --> 0:11:52.876
<v Speaker 1>sure that they're prioritizing getting their groceries from the small grocery,

0:11:52.916 --> 0:11:53.156
<v Speaker 1>you know.

0:11:53.276 --> 0:11:55.396
<v Speaker 2>And you know sometimes sometimes that does come at a

0:11:55.436 --> 0:11:56.876
<v Speaker 2>bit of a price premium, but you give what you

0:11:56.956 --> 0:11:57.276
<v Speaker 2>pay for.

0:11:57.796 --> 0:12:00.276
<v Speaker 1>If someone's thinking, you know, I want to I want

0:12:00.316 --> 0:12:02.196
<v Speaker 1>to start something from scratch and I want it to

0:12:02.276 --> 0:12:05.276
<v Speaker 1>endure for decades to come, what advice would you give

0:12:05.316 --> 0:12:05.916
<v Speaker 1>to them?

0:12:06.396 --> 0:12:09.716
<v Speaker 2>I would say, first of all, really do your research

0:12:09.756 --> 0:12:11.676
<v Speaker 2>on what you're going to do and why. Know why

0:12:11.716 --> 0:12:14.516
<v Speaker 2>you'll be good at it, know why it's important, and

0:12:14.556 --> 0:12:17.356
<v Speaker 2>why you have that passion for it. It very rarely

0:12:17.356 --> 0:12:19.196
<v Speaker 2>works if that passion is I want to make a buck,

0:12:20.276 --> 0:12:22.756
<v Speaker 2>and you need to have a really deep understanding of

0:12:22.796 --> 0:12:25.516
<v Speaker 2>what the purpose of that business is and why you

0:12:25.636 --> 0:12:28.316
<v Speaker 2>think you can achieve that purpose. If you have those

0:12:28.316 --> 0:12:30.916
<v Speaker 2>two things and the grit to drive through my experiences,

0:12:30.916 --> 0:12:31.796
<v Speaker 2>most places make it.

0:12:57.316 --> 0:12:59.996
<v Speaker 1>Hey, thanks for listening to my conversation with Ben Walter,

0:13:00.476 --> 0:13:03.156
<v Speaker 1>the CEO of Chase for Business and host of The

0:13:03.236 --> 0:13:06.996
<v Speaker 1>Unshakables podcast. You can check out Ben's episode of The

0:13:07.116 --> 0:13:11.756
<v Speaker 1>Unshakables featuring Borgatti's and an episode we recorded last year.

0:13:11.836 --> 0:13:14.116
<v Speaker 1>For a slight change of Plans when I talked to

0:13:14.156 --> 0:13:17.676
<v Speaker 1>Ben about staying resilient in the workplace. We'll link to

0:13:17.716 --> 0:13:20.396
<v Speaker 1>both episodes in the show notes, and we'll be back

0:13:20.476 --> 0:13:23.516
<v Speaker 1>next week with another episode of A Slight Change of Plans.

0:13:23.916 --> 0:13:37.796
<v Speaker 1>I'll see you then. A Slight Change of Plans is created, written,

0:13:37.916 --> 0:13:41.636
<v Speaker 1>and executive produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change

0:13:41.676 --> 0:13:46.516
<v Speaker 1>Family includes our showrunner Alexandra Garratin, our editor Daphne Chen,

0:13:47.076 --> 0:13:51.636
<v Speaker 1>our lead producer Megan Lubin, our associate producer Sonia Gerwit,

0:13:52.076 --> 0:13:56.356
<v Speaker 1>and our sound engineer Erica Huang. Louis Scara wrote our

0:13:56.396 --> 0:13:59.796
<v Speaker 1>delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals.

0:14:00.596 --> 0:14:03.876
<v Speaker 1>A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries,

0:14:04.156 --> 0:14:07.756
<v Speaker 1>so big thanks to everyone there, and of course a

0:14:07.996 --> 0:14:09.876
<v Speaker 1>very special thanks to genuine