1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Before this week's episode, I wanted to take a moment 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: to let y'all know about the devastating floods happening in 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Pakistan right now, over thirty million people have been affected, 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: with the death toll around eleven hundred and rising with 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: every passing day. Entire buildings are being washed away, with 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: many people sustaining injuries. I encourage every listener to donate 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: any amount they can to help alleviate this disaster. You 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: can find a list of organizations to send funds to 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: linked in the show notes. Warning, the following episode contains 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: stories of rape and extreme violence. You know, slowly but 11 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: shortly from the nineties, it was entering my conscious, my 12 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: public and social conscious that practition of India was a 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: very big event, really shaped the Sudasian geopolitics and also people. 14 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: It lives in families, It lives in families, histories. I 15 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: was fully understanding my inheritance, like this is what I inherit, 16 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: you know, as an Indian woman, this is part of 17 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: my cultural and familial inheritance. Once we make the association 18 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: that the past isn't meant to stay in the past, 19 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: what can we do to make sure the memories and 20 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: experiences of people who came before us don't get lost 21 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: in the void. Last week, you heard some of the 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: ways women were weaponized during partition from Adula Waldron, a 23 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: survivor who wrote a novel to process her personal trauma. 24 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: From this week, we're going to focus on what we 25 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: can do now to acknowledge these women, to make sure 26 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: their experiences don't get lost no matter how much time 27 00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: has passed. From I Heart Radio, I'm Nehasse and this 28 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: is Partition, a podcast that will take a closer look 29 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: into this often forgotten part of history. I can't quite 30 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: remember how I stumbled upon this artist's work. I think 31 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: I was just looking for people who were sharing stories 32 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: about partition in any capacity. Once I looked at her photos, 33 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: I immediately knew I wanted to talk to her and 34 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: find out more about her intricate and honest works about Partition. 35 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: I call myself a post colonial filminist artist that's Practico Jodrey. 36 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: I make art installations that are anti memorials to traumatic 37 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: geopolitical events, such as the partition of India, eleven and 38 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: so on. In these anti memorials, I tried to excavate 39 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: the counter memories of these events. The counter histories of 40 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: these events. Pertica as an artist, curator, and writer who 41 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: focuses on anti memorials and counter memory. Though I hadn't 42 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: heard these terms before, I immediately understood their meeting as 43 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: she explained them to me. In essence, there are the 44 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: crux of this podcast. So an anti memorial basically goes 45 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: against the grain in terms of traditional monuments, which are 46 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, state sponsored monuments tend to be rather large, 47 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: breaking motor structures that glorify the nation state in some way. 48 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: Anti memorials do the almost opposite, so they are usually 49 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: smaller in scale, They are usually temporary, they are made 50 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: usually of fragile and precarious materials, and most of the 51 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: time they critique the nation state. There are, of course, 52 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: statues and other entities named after Jinna and Ahru in 53 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: Pakistan in India, and while there are still some statues 54 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: devoted to our colonizers, they are not well preserved and 55 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: many are in the process of being removed, a notion 56 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: similar to Confederate statues being removed in the United States. 57 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: Counter memories, similarly, are memories that center the experiences of 58 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: people that don't get to write history. So the national 59 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: version the nationalist hero version, so to speak, of a 60 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: traumatic event is usually quite different from what was experienced 61 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: on the ground by people that were at a disadvantage. 62 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: In the context of the tradition of India, these tend 63 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: to be women and the Muslim minority. These two also 64 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: don't get to write the history of the partition to 65 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: any great extent. They are usually very silenced. Their experiences 66 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: are not heard, they're definitely not centered. Coming to terms 67 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: with our past is essential. We must own up to 68 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: our history, no matter how despicable it. Maybe think about 69 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: reparations being made to the descendants of slaves. While no 70 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: amount of money can erase the wickedness of the past, 71 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: at the very least it offers some accountability. You've heard 72 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: me say time and time again that the great men 73 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: in history narrative is the one that gets the limelight 74 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: in most cases, and everyday people, especially women, get shafted. 75 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: The everyday people are the ones that lost their homes, 76 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: were separated from their relatives, attacked, and must truly live 77 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: with a sequences from these so called great men. This 78 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: is where the counter memory comes in. So counter memory 79 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: is an exercise, It's an individual act of resistance it's 80 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: a fu Coldian term to excavate intentionally these histories that 81 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: have been lost, that have been raised from nationalist narratives, 82 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: and then to center those. Pertica mentions that a counter 83 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: memory is a fu Codian term. The term was coined 84 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: by French philosopher Michelle Fuco. Counter memories hope to break 85 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: the cycle of sharing a sugar coated history and questioning 86 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: the power structure of information that is widely available to us. Essentially, 87 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: it is through counter memories where we get the so 88 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: called inconvenient truths, the truths we don't get in history books, 89 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: the truths that are vastly different from the fantasies they 90 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: are addressed up as. No matter how Indians and Pakistan, 91 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: he's fall into the timeline of events. We all have 92 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: a partition story. I asked Partika what hers was. I 93 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: am half Cynthia and half Bengali. Pretiica is referring to 94 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: two different regions. Sinth is a province in Pakistan where 95 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: I'm also from, and Bengal is a region on the 96 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: eastern side of India which you may remember was split 97 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: by Cyril Radcliffe in the height of the n partition riots. 98 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: My grandparents and their extended family migrated from Karagi to Delhi. 99 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: You know, our family doesn't talk about like I had 100 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: to really extract it out of my mother and Um, 101 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: she was initially quite resistant to talking about it because 102 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: she was like, well, what's the point of talking about 103 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: all this, you know, past traumas and things like that. 104 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: It's just better to just forget. Extract is the perfect 105 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: word to like in her recollection of getting information from 106 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: her mom to getting a procedure as unpleasant as getting 107 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: a tooth removed is flawless. The partition lives very much, 108 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: lives and functions as a force, as a ghost or 109 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: however you want to call it. In the current jew 110 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: politics of South Asia. That was what led me to 111 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: sort of question my mother about what exactly happened in 112 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: n What does she know? So she was only um 113 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: I believe, three years old at the time, so she 114 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: doesn't really remember, but she knew enough that she was 115 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: able to fill me in on quite a few details 116 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: over the course of several telephone calls, because I was 117 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: in the U S by then. Over the course of 118 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: those many international telephone calls, particle slowly and covered the 119 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: horror stories her family witness during Partition. I found out 120 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: that my grandfather's extended family, like his brothers and sisters 121 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: and them, they all migrated, but they migrated at slightly 122 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:15,239 Speaker 1: different times and had sighted different all within August of nine, 123 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: but through different modes like you know, train or car 124 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,359 Speaker 1: or whatever, they were able to manage. And my grandfather 125 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: was in a pre decent position in the Indian railways. 126 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: He was even able to get like an air ticket 127 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: for a part of that journey. But the entire family, 128 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: the extended family, was not that lucky. And they there 129 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: were one whole part of their family, like one of 130 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: his siblings, and their entire family was completely like killed 131 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: in the in the trains that you know, when they 132 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: were coming to India. Only one nephew of my grandfather 133 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: survived and he had like some sixteen stab wounds. Yea, 134 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: his other sibling sister, his hard daughter, one of her daughters, 135 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: was abducted and lost. They were never able to find her. 136 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: Bertica mostly found out about Partition through film and television, 137 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: and when she started pursuing her m f A, all 138 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: the pieces came together for her. When I came to 139 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: the US after a few years, you know, I went 140 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: back to school, I started doing the Grand program UM 141 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: and you Double Medicine UM and m f A, and 142 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: there I had the opportunity to attend a graduate seminar 143 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: on cultural memory, and there I finally found like a 144 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: framework to really examine and analyze cultural memory in all 145 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: its different nuances. So there is the hegemonic narratives, there 146 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: is the erased narratives. And that's where I started to 147 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: understand these uh concepts of counter memories, counter histories, subaltern 148 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: resistance to these anti memorials or you know, anti monuments 149 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: or however you know, people use site different terms here, 150 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: but this is where I started to kind of gain 151 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: a vocabulary to process and then to sort of understand 152 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: how I can make art about it. So in my 153 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: conversation with Pertica, switched gears to a more complicated and 154 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: disheartening to topic general sible rape is a concept I 155 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: have a hard time wrapping my head around. Rape in 156 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: general is a concept I have a hard time wrapping 157 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: my head around. Activists and researcher Wherehema Begham rights. United 158 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: Nations Security Council Resolution eight states that sexual violence is 159 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: a tactic of war to humiliate, dominate, and still fear 160 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: in disperse and or forcibly relocate civilian members of a 161 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: community or an ethnic group. Throughout time, we have seen 162 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: sexual violence, especially in the form of rape, being used 163 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: to demoralize and destabilize entire communities, destroying the structure of 164 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: families and societies in spaces of conflict. We can assume 165 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: sexual violence is inevitable when village elders are raped in public, 166 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: sons are forced to rape their mother, or soldiers rape 167 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: women in a village with their brothers and husbands forced 168 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: to watch. These acts are strategic and efforts to annihilate 169 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: an entire community. The use of the word tactic is 170 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: just very upsetting. To think of rape as a strategy, 171 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: or to chalk it up to unnecessary evil of war 172 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: is as detestable as it is outrageous. So partition is 173 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: is a very complex thing. It's a very complex geopolitical event. 174 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: There are many aspects of it. You know. She created 175 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: her first partition related work in two thousand and seven 176 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: while in grad school. That one was called Queering Mother India. 177 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: So in that I wanted to understand how this construct 178 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: of Mother India had maybe enabled the perverse logic of 179 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: using rape as a weapon in communal rights, where you know, 180 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: the body of the women of a community can become 181 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: the symbolic battleground where if you, you know, violate the 182 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: women's bodies, you can inflict a very deep wound and 183 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: humiliation to the men of that community. So it's very 184 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: much a battle amongst men, but it gets played out 185 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: on the bodies of women. That's the perverse logic of 186 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: using rape as a weapon, especially in these patriarchal societies. 187 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: Punishing women was not a one off aspect of partition, 188 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: but one that has been perpetrated in other historical events 189 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: like Bosnia and Rwanta. But back to South Asia, culturally, 190 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: we really revere women too. I mean, we have gardesses 191 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: that we worship. So I could not quite understand this 192 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: complete contradiction of you know, on the one hand we 193 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: worshiped goddesses, but then on the other hand we violate 194 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: women's bodies brutally, you know. So that was the whole 195 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: idea of that anti memorial, where it comprised of, you know, 196 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: about a nine or ten foot tall woman that I 197 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: had made in ceramic in clay and it was fragmented, 198 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: so you know, her body was in fragments around the gallery, 199 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: and this is to sort of allude to how women's 200 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: bodies were dismembered, you know, as part of the symbolic 201 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: violence in the partition rights. Pertica shows the female body 202 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: as the mutilated and brutalized body of Mother India. When 203 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: outside the traditional depictions of Mother India as a serene, 204 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: demire maternal figure who reproduces the nation as expected of her, 205 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: the icon of Mother India itself becomes broken by communal 206 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: violence m H. As she discusses more of her installations, 207 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 1: Pretica mentioned many of them are named after books or 208 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: films that she was inspired by. So the second Anteme 209 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: memorial I titled it What the Body Remembers because you know, 210 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: as an interra textual citation to the novel. And in 211 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: that I focused only on the lower half of women's bodies. 212 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: And they are also twice web size, so it's just 213 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: the lower half of the female body, but each one 214 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: of them is about six ft top. Due to the 215 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: large nature of these pieces, she notes that the belly 216 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: and pubic areas are at eye level, making a statement 217 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: want can't easily ignore m and they are engaged in 218 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: schoolyard games like playing hop scotch or jump pro or 219 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: being on a swing, and then there's like a soundscape 220 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: in there where it's the sound of you know, an 221 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: old time steam engine sort of approaching and then leaving, 222 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: and that it is just placed on a loop, so 223 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: it's the sort of this ominous sound of a train 224 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: coming and then leaving. Unfortunately, the pieces and what the 225 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: Body remembers suffered irreparable damage while being transported, but photos 226 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: of the art can be seen on Partica's website. However, 227 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: she has a solution to bring them back to life 228 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: by recreating them as digital three D models and releasing 229 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: them as n f T s, a statement I never 230 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: thought I would say on this show. If you don't 231 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: know what an n f T is, I share you 232 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: I am the worst person to explain it. The next 233 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: one that I made after What the Body Remembers was 234 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: Silent Waters, which is an intratextual citation to a film 235 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: by Seba Summer in which she sort of narrates the 236 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: life story of a woman who was abducted and raped 237 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: and then eventually ended up marrying one of her rapists 238 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: as a form of survival, and of course those memories 239 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: hunt her but there's this sort of culture of silence 240 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: in the village where she lives, where nobody mentions it 241 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: and she doesn't mention it, and that her survival is 242 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: sort of conditional to that. But eventually one of her 243 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: brothers finds her because they never stopped looking for her. 244 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: He comes from India and he finds her, which then 245 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: breaks the silence of her abduction and rape. Campani came 246 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: out in two thousand three, and I'll discuss this film 247 00:18:53,160 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 1: further in a later episode. In this installation title Old 248 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: Silent Waters, I created a hundred and one feet and 249 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: these are also larger than life, so they are like 250 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen inches lunches, bigger than most human feet. They 251 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: are glazed black, dead black, and when I displayed them, 252 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: I filled them to different heights with salt water, so 253 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: during the exhibition, the water evaporates and leaves like a 254 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: crystalline residue of the salt in the feet. There's also 255 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: a soundscape in there where, um, you know, it's the 256 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: sound of running feet, rainfall, and then a body hitting water, 257 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: so like somebody may be jumped into a well. Some 258 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: of Parta's other installations that focus on partition include remembering 259 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: the crooked Line, which uses games as a motif. Like 260 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: in the body, remembers and displays separations of other countries 261 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: in broken column a series of hanging latex and silicon 262 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: casts printed with neutral colored bricks and stones, hanged dispersed 263 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: in a gallery. These casts represent the monuments to partition 264 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: that should exist in the affected countries, but they don't, 265 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: except for the monument representing the Liberation War. In this war, 266 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: Bengalis living in East Pakistan fought for their independence, eventually 267 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: emerging victorious as a new country, Bangladesh. This war was 268 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: one of the many traumatic and violent events that stemmed 269 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: from partition. It is a story that deserves its own time, 270 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: research and respect. It is my hope to share some 271 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: of those stories in the future and in memory, leaks, 272 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: traces and drips. Pritica uses dripping water to express the 273 00:20:54,040 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: regularity of communal riots. So what can we do now? 274 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: I asked Perteca this question, and I'll be the first 275 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: to admit it was pretty loaded. How do we pay 276 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: tribute to women affected by partition? How do we honor them? 277 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, Yeah, that is a big question, you know, 278 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: because rape is still stigmatized, right rape is a stigma 279 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: that is still largely carried by women. Right. It's hard 280 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: to center these narratives of rape because again, remember the 281 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: victims of rape, right, their survival after the rape in 282 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: a lot of situations depends on their silence. Like it's 283 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: it's not of benefit to them to break their silence. Right, 284 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: So up until as a society, women carry the stigma 285 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: of rape, and women's silence about their rapes is what 286 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: is valued rather than the redressal of the wrong. I 287 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: think it would be very hard to reverse that trend, 288 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, in any significant way. So I guess what 289 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: we can do people like you and me, you know, 290 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: creatives who are not directly impacted by the rapes, but 291 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: you know, as researchers and as creatives, we can research 292 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: it and preserve those memories and in a way in 293 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: different cultural artifacts you know, art, podcasts, books, storiography. You know, however, 294 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: we are able films. Retica's work has been on display 295 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: in a pleatora of museums around the world. As the 296 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: senior curator for the South Asian Institute of Chicago, She's 297 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: putting together a seventy five anniversary project where many of 298 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: her works will be showcased the exhibit. It is aptly 299 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: titled Unbearable Memories Unspeakable Histories. At the top of the episode, 300 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: you heard Prithicca say that Partition lives in families and 301 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: this history is something she inherits. I had shared many 302 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: of the same sentiments in an earlier episode. Partition is 303 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: a living and breathing thing. I too, believe it is 304 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: my legacy to share these stories and ensure they don't 305 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: get lost. Perhaps the most important aspect of Brithicca's work 306 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: is that it can be seen online, thus eliminating any barriers. 307 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what side of the border you belong to, 308 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: or whether Partition is a part of your story or not. 309 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: The accessibility of Prothicca's work allows everyone, no matter where 310 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: you are or who you are, to take the first 311 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: step towards learning about this history that would otherwise be forgotten. 312 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: In episode one, you heard me mention that there are 313 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: no partition memorials in either India or Pakistan. What is 314 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: being done to reserve this history? There are a number 315 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: of people and organizations recording and documenting survivor accounts, and 316 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to talk to some of them. 317 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 1: And discuss the task of collecting memories. I sort of 318 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: casually started recording story on a trip to Punjab in 319 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. People thought it was insane, like really 320 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: strange what I was doing. People who had witnessed it 321 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: started to line up and it was like, Oh, there's 322 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: a need, like people want to tell the story until 323 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: next week. I'm Nejasis and this is Partition. Partition was 324 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: developed as a part of the Next Up initiative created 325 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: by Anna Hosnier, Joel Monique and Seni a median. Partition 326 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: is produced by Anna Hosnier, Tricia Mukerjee and Becker Ramos. 327 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: It is edited by Rory Gagan, with the original score 328 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: composed by Mark Hadley.