WEBVTT - It IS Happening Here 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.400 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:19.599 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Homebunker, Folks, 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.360 I am very excited to bring to you today my 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:28.000 conversation with my fellow nerd Avenger. We have met and 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.560 just become incredibly fond of each other through the Mary 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.400 Trump Show. If you guys watch that on YouTube. Dahlia 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:43.360 Lithwick has written a new book that is entitled Lady Justice, Women, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.640 the Law and the Battle to Save America. And in 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:51.239 this book, Dahlia lays out a history of women and 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.000 the law, going back to a time and are not 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:59.880 too distant history where women had no rights in this country. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.800 That's right, And I'm not just talking about abortion. I'm 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:08.040 also talking about financial independence. I'm also talking about workplace independence. 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:13.840 I'm also talking about bodily autonomy. And what Dahlia talks 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:18.240 about and our interview gets into is also the correlations 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.840 that we need to be drawing between what is happening 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.800 right now on the streets of Iran being led by 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:30.000 women and pushing back against an oppressive regime that wants 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.479 to dictate how they look, where they go, what they wear, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.240 and what is happening with the Christo fascist Republican movement 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.240 in the United States. We cannot sit here in the 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.639 US and clutch our pearls and look at Iran and say, oh, 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.880 those poor women solidarity and throw up at this and 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.200 think that what is happening, what has happened over the 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.600 last forty plus years in Iran, can't happen or isn't 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.680 happening in the United States right now. And I will 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.680 also talk about the upcoming Supreme Court docket and all 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.720 of the major cases that are on there, from affirmative 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:12.160 action to voting rights, and to more cases with regard 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.920 to bodily autonomy, and how one decision at a time, 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:21.440 this Supreme Court is set to disrupt, ruin crumble, destroy 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:26.840 our democracy and women's bodily autonomy and black people's ability 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:31.720 to you know, access the American dream. So, folks, when 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:36.160 we look at these other countries and we see them 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:42.079 pushing back in revolution against these regimes, understand that authoritarian 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.800 control doesn't always come in rolling down the street with 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.240 tanks and in military uniform. It doesn't always come with 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:55.480 the assassination right of said shah or said leader or dictator. No, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.240 it also comes in the form of dictators that are 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.200 wearing black robes. It also comes in the form of 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.359 a Republican Party that decides that they no longer believe 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.799 in the constitution, they no longer believe in the rule 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.079 of law, and they no longer believe in the ability 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.880 of the people to decide how they want to live. 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.920 We are supposed to be a government that is for 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.720 and by the people of these United States. And what 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.560 the Republican Party is telling us, and has been telling 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.040 us for the last several fucking decades and now has 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:30.360 a megaphone, is that fuck you and your laws, fuck 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:34.800 you and your civil liberties, fuck you and your bodily autonomy. Right, 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.400 I'm going to put you back in your place. Women, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:43.880 black people, queer people, disabled people, right, one decision at 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.280 a time. And I'm telling you right now, I ain't 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.760 going out like that, and I know many of you 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.720 that listen to wokaf aren't either. So pay attention, pay 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.920 attention to what we are seeing in Iran. Pay attention 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.760 to how women are leading the fight and the pushback 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.880 against authoritarianism. And I've been saying this, if folks, if 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.040 you've been listening to this show since twenty sixteen when 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.960 I launched it that things in America are going to 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.560 get bloodier before they get better. And I say that 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.159 not from a place of hyperbole, not from a place 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.200 of joy, but from a place of reality that I 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.320 need all of us to grasp on too, so that 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.839 we are not caught off guard and surprised, as apparently 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.480 everyone was in June when the Republican Party did exactly 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.400 what it was that they have been saying that they 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.160 would do for forty plus years, which was rolled back 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.480 Rovie Wade. When people show you who the fuck they are, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.520 believe them. And it's time that the American people show 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.280 the christto fascist Republican movement who the fuck we are. 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:52.640 Coming up next, my conversation with my friend Dahlia Lithwick. 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.719 Get a behind the scenes look at Comedy Central's The 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.919 Daily Show Beyond the Scenes, an original podcast from The 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.719 Daily Show with Trevor Noah. Every week, host Roy Wood 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.440 Junior goes deeper with the notable guests and experts from 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.320 the Emmy Award winning series. Together, they use comedy to 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.400 tackle current topics from gentrification to gun laws, and take 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.800 a closer look at how and why these topics matter. 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.160 Listen to Beyond the Scenes from the Daily Show with 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.480 Trevor Noah on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:26.479 you get your podcast. New episodes every Tuesday, Folks. I 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.720 am very excited to welcome to wok F Daily my 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.440 fellow nerd Avenger Dahlia Lithwick, who is the author of 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.160 the new book Lady Justice, Women, The Law and the 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:44.320 Battle to Save America. Dahlia, I think that what is 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:48.680 really fascinating and the perfect timing of your book is 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.080 that it comes at a time when, for the first 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:57.320 time in American history, since women have actually actualized themselves 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.400 as full and complete citizens, that we are seeing an 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.680 roll back in rights and protections for women that we 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.520 have not seen since prior to I would say, nineteen 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.839 seventy four. What is also interesting about your book is 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:19.160 that it takes us through this history of women in law, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.520 bringing us back to a not too distant future that 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.360 I think that I'm so grateful for you in bringing 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.800 it to the forefront the way that women have been treated. Right, 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.760 women who are who were going in front of the 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:40.920 court and needing to wear skirts, who are representatives in 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.760 our Senate and in the House of representatives needing and 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.400 being told too that they had to wear skirts on 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.880 the floor. This is but just forty some odd years 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:59.080 ago that we understand that women didn't have the right 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:05.480 to have a credit card without without the authority of 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.560 a husband or a father. That was in the nineteen 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.360 seventies in these United States. And I bring this up 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.360 because while we are watching our rights being rolled back 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.440 in this country, we're also watching at the same time 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:25.640 a historic women led revolution that is happening in Iran. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.040 And we always love in America to point the finger 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.480 at the Middle East and countries and say, oh, look 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.080 at them, that could never be as morality police. That's crazy. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.119 While they're being forced to wear he jobs, we're being 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.400 forced to give birth. So talk to us about how 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:49.280 your book is dropping at a time when women are 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.960 being pushed back into a class of citizenship that modern 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.040 day women have only ever read about. Yeah. I mean, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.560 first of all, Danielle, thank you for having me on. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.280 I've been actually really psyched to talk about you because 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.840 I feel like in our conversations you're one of the 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.600 only people who just relentlessly says like, if you choose 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.040 to forget the past, you don't know what's coming in 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.520 the future. And I think, like, if you don't have 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.680 that on a T shirt, you should, because I think 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.520 you have really been a clarion voice of and you 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.520 make this point in your piece that this week about iron. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.280 My husband and I are obsessed with photos of Iranian 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.600 women from the seventies in their like bell bottoms and 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.240 their wedge heels and their T shirts because you can't 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.120 look at that and look at where we are today 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.199 and not understand this isn't like past is prologue. Is 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:47.000 past is exactly where we think we are irrevocably now 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.200 that we're going to forever and ever live in a 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.199 world of equality and rights and dignity. And then fast 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.440 forward a couple decades and you know, women are, as 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:02.000 you note, being killed for not wearing a head scarf 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.920 appropriately by the quote unquote morality police. And so I 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:09.920 think the refusal to not just look at what has 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.240 happened in the past, like you say, you know, ask 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.120 your grandmother if she had a credit card in her name, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.280 Ask her if her mother had a credit card in 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:22.480 her name. Ask if you know somebody raped their wife 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.480 that they knew, if that could be charged as rape. 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.240 It could not. And you know, I always say to people, 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.400 you know, Ruth pader Ginsburg, We like to think she's 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.600 sort of sprung fully form out of the ether. Ruth 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.160 pader Ginsburgh had to hide her pregnancy or she would 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.400 have been fired. And that wasn't the nineteen twenties. And 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.080 so you're exactly right, it's recent past. And I think 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.240 that the two points that you're making that are both 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.440 really important is that to be a historic about any 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.240 of this is to fail to understand how much we 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:58.720 had to claw equality and equal protection and dignity out 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.640 of the kind of rock face of a constitution that 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.560 was blind to it. But the second point, and it's 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.280 just as important, is that to refuse to look around 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.319 the world and see what is happening in the name 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:16.080 of sort of religious zelotry and ethnonationalism and just rampant 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.880 religious misogyny, and to say that can't touch us because 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:26.079 we live on this island of you know, irrevocable forward 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.280 progress is just insane. And so I think both of 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:34.440 those points are descriptively really important. One, history is not 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.560 ancient in many many ways, it's coming back. But also 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.480 to think that oh, just because it happened in Iran. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.040 That women don't wear bell bottoms anymore doesn't mean it 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.800 can happen here. Is it's just shortsighted to the point 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:55.000 of myopic and dangerous. You know. It's what I find 0:10:55.080 --> 0:11:00.120 always so troubling, particularly in America, is our inability to 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:05.040 look at other countries and to consider our own futures 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.760 as being predicated by what we're seeing, right, And that 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.600 is why I wrote the piece about why American women 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.680 need to pay attention to what is happening in Iran, 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.240 because it's only forty some odd years. It's forty six years, 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.559 you know, forty I think it's like forty two years 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:27.480 since the Islamic Republic took over, right Iran, And in 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:32.000 that four decades, right, that they have seen a complete 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.720 and total reversal and how women are allowed to present 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.960 and show up in that country. And we have always 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.680 looked down, I believe, in America, at other nations and said, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.480 look how backwards they are. Oh, the women in Saudi 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:51.280 Arabia just got the resentability to be able to drive. Well, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:56.240 look like you're saying, talk to your own grandmothers, who 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.320 in there, your own grandmothers, Talk to your own mothers 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.000 about how old they were when they were able to 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.320 get a credit card. Right, that was in nineteen seventy four. Law, 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.760 I believe that was passed in the United States. And 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:16.480 so I want you to talk about why DABS. The 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:22.480 DABS decision in June is the canary in the coal mine. 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.920 It isn't. It isn't the end all be all. It 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:31.840 is actually the beginning of how America. And I believe 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.720 it won't take forty years, right. I believe that it 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.839 can take to tend or less than that for us 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:43.800 to get to a place pre nineteen seventy four. Yeah, 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.559 I mean, I think, you know, what's the cliche. I mean, 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.200 these things happen slowly and then quickly, and I think 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.760 that we are caught up in the slow build of 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:59.560 decades after casey of one form of attack on reproductive rights, 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.120 which was essentially, we're going to use this pretext of 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.040 caring about women and we want them to make good decisions. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.839 And as long as the clinics, you know, have them 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.440 come back for two consults, and as long as they 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.680 have read these completely fact free warnings about the correlation 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.240 between suicidal ideation abortion, like, we just want them to 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.800 be safe and happy. And that was decades, right, those 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.640 trap laws. You know, we just have to have wider corridors, 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.160 and we have to have doctors with admitting privileges. And 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.280 then in a less than a year, right, we see 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.559 that when the opportunity comes to actually reverse row, we're 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.280 seeing like, no, actually, what we want is women to 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.040 be incubators. We don't actually care about them making good 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.200 decisions because we don't want them to make decisions at all. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.360 And because I think we haven't processed that turn and 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.000 how quickly it happened, you still hear all this nonsense 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.960 from states that are like, no, we care about maternal health, 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.080 we care about fetal health. You know, thank you, Justice Barrett. 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.160 We're just going to force women to carry it to term, 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.000 which is much much more dangerous than terminating. But it's 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:04.920 okay because they're going to drop the babies off at 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:09.160 fire stations. And all of this fake solicitude for maternal 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.480 health has just I think crumbled away in the span 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.439 of the summer. Right, And so you are exactly right, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:16.920 and I know you and I talk about this in 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.080 other contexts. We're now not talking about abortion. We're talking 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.160 about miscarriages. We're talking about fetal endangerment. We're talking about 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:28.360 putting medication abortion in the mail. We're talking about women 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.320 in Alabama who are stuck in jail who cannot get 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.960 out because the state has determined they will endanger their 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.840 children with drug use. Right, all of that just happened. 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.200 And by the way, a lot of that has been 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:44.000 happening before, Dubs. It's just that it happened principally to 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.040 women of color and to poor women. All of that 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.920 is happening. And you know, as you said, there's no 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.560 talk of oh, we were lying when we said leave 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.240 it to the states. What we mean is federal abortion ban. Also, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:00.600 we're now just openly hearing about going after contracept next. 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.040 You know, the whole checklist that Justice Thomas laid out 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:08.840 in his concurrence in jobs, you know, which is LGBTQ 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.000 rights and all other you know, determinants of what is 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.400 private conduct and family conduct. All of that is on 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.920 the table. And so to suggest that you know the 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.640 same people who not four years ago we're telling us 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.840 in whole Women's Health that really the only reason we 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.920 needed wide corridors to push a gurney through in a 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.320 clinic was so that women would be healthy and safe, 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.040 but that you know, what we really wanted was the 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.840 primacy of their health and their baby's health, and to 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.760 see that just scuppered. And now it's like we don't 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:46.040 care because we just want them to be incubators. And 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:47.680 if they die, they die. If they have to go 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.600 septic before we treat them, so be it. If they 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:56.240 have to, you know, have babies that are going to 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.240 live for a few moments, suffer terribly and die, so 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.040 be it. And so I think in some sense, this 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.040 isn't another one of those things where if you didn't 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.560 know this was coming, you weren't watching what was happening 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.480 in Oklahoma. To Brittany Poola, you know, if you didn't 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.840 see this coming, you weren't watching what's been happening. You know, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.440 people like Dorothy Roberts have been writing about this for decades. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.640 And you know, as I said, I think because this 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:26.120 was coming principally for black and brown women and poor women, 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.760 a lot of other people were shocked when Dubbs sort 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.680 of sprawled out for us that your very parenting decisions 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.880 are now going to be criminalized. And it happened, and 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.360 I think we haven't processed it in some I would 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.680 say in no small measure, because we don't want to 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.040 reckon with the history of slavery and how women and 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:56.720 black women's bodies have been treated ever since. Indisputaful with 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.640 Doctor Rashi Ricci is one of the latest shows on 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.240 the TYT network and also the fastest growing news show 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:07.159 in America. On his show, Doctor Ricci plays no games 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.520 regarding policy, delivering a heavy dose of fact based truth 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.120 and penetrating analysis on all the top news stories focusing 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:19.000 on racism, criminal and social justice, politics, police brutality, Karens, 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:23.320 and much more. Listeners can also expect interviews with fascinating guests, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:28.000 political leaders, commentators, and even fiery debates with conservatives on 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.720 a wide range of policy topics in the Bullpen. It 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.720 is an indisputable fact that you will love this show. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:39.720 Listen to Indisputable with Doctor Rashad Ricci on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.560 or wherever you get your podcasts. If you like what 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.760 you hear, be sure to subscribe so you never miss 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:54.920 a new episode. You know, and you mentioned slavery, and 0:17:55.359 --> 0:18:00.159 I'm also thinking, you know, not too recently during the 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:04.320 Trump administration, the sterilization of undocumented women, which we don't 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.600 talk about right, which has happened, by the way, the 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:13.120 sterilization of undocumented women under both Democrats and Republicans, might 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:18.200 I mention, and so you know, there has been Dahlia, 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:24.560 an unrelenting war against women in this country for decades. 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:32.080 And my question is we understand that. But white women 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.520 that have been voting with Donald Trump and have been 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:39.800 voting with the Republican Party for the entirety of their 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.119 voting age. The numbers went up from twenty sixteen to 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.080 twenty twenty in terms of who was showing out for 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:53.199 Donald Trump. How do you think that white women reconcile 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:59.400 the war that has been on their autonomy and them 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:05.400 still vote alongside their husbands and their fathers. I mean, 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.919 I think the short, depressing answer is a failure to 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.800 connect the dots. I think it is to look at 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:15.320 this as abortion and isolation and all the ways that 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.679 many privileged white women have told themselves for decades that 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.320 this is not their problem. This is you know, if 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.080 you are, you know, using abortions, birth control, you know 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.560 all the stereotypes about you know, the kinds of women 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.800 who get abortions and refusing, I think to open the 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.360 aperture and say, oh wait, you know, my own miscarriage 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:42.160 could now be subject to investigation and criminal charges because 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:47.119 the state has determined that I wasn't mischarging, I wasn't 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.320 in fact having a miscarriage, I was aborting. So I 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.760 think that all of that kind of judgmental narrow mindedness 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:59.040 around reproductive freedom has been kind of blasted open. And 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.120 I think when you you start to hear the kinds 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.760 of stories we're hearing this summer, which, by the way, 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.960 as you say, has been going on for years. You know, 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.800 ten year old rape victim who has to cross state lines. 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.000 You know, women being forced to carry a non viable 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:19.159 fetus and leave the state because she can't terminate in 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.240 the state. You know this is familiar. Right now, We're 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.159 not talking about abortion. Now, we're talking about miscarriage, which 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:29.640 one pregnancy in four. Now we're talking about rape, which, 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.160 as you always point out, you know, statistically one woman 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.160 in four. Now we're talking about things that I think, 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.320 even if you are utterly mired in the sort of 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.359 judgmental narrow minded you know, abortion is something that only 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:51.240 you know, loose women who aren't careful need to access. 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.160 You're in a new world now, and so as absolutely 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.800 awful as it is that these stories of women who 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.520 are left to bleed out until they are in critical 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.400 condition and the hospital's lawyers says, okay, now you can 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.080 treat her. Every one of us either had something like 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.480 that happen or no, somebody who's had something like that happen. 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.600 And so the depressing I think answer to your depressing 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:18.720 question is a total failure of empathy and imagination, right, 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:22.240 the total failure of this could have happened to me. 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.479 Oh wait, it did happen to me. You know, I 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.520 had one of those miscarriages that had to be handled 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.679 with a DNC that I think at this point, you know, 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.520 some state actor could certainly have looked at what I 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:35.919 was doing. And so I think a lot of people 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.320 who said this is a problem for black women in 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.640 Alabama are now looking around and saying, oh wait, this 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.399 is when I send my child to college. This is 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.520 a problem for them too. And I hate that that's 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:52.320 the answer. Failure of empathy, failure of imagination, failure to 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.679 understand that you don't know what you don't know. But 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.639 I think that's the answer. But the upside I really 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.280 do think, Danielle, is that people are starting to see 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.400 that they don't know what they don't know. And by 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.480 the way, this isn't just loose women who are using 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.720 abortion as birth control. You know, I want to even 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.600 go a step further with this with regard to your 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.560 they don't know what they don't know, because I often 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:20.520 say on this show that public education is the greatest 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:27.119 perpetuator of white supremacy and also of patriarchy. And I 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:37.000 say this because simple health education, sex education, reproductive education 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:45.600 comprehensive would help us understand childbirth, would help us understand 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:52.080 a woman's body, would help us understand the burden of labor. Right, 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:59.160 you had members of Congress and state legislatures, men who 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:05.400 have no idea how a woman's body works, right, has 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:09.360 no idea, Oh, just have the baby and drop it off, 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.960 as if pregnancy, nine months of growing a new human 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.520 being inside of you is somehow easy on the body. 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:19.280 And so I wonder, you know, And I bring this 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:25.679 up because there are only three women in the South 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:30.560 Carolina Legislature, and now all of a sudden they're seeing 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.840 in a different tune. They've been voting quote unquote pro 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.919 life until recently where one of them gave this floor 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:43.120 speech about how disappointed she was with her male colleagues 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:47.000 for not considering rape and incest and the well being 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.399 and the welfare of of a woman of the mother, 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:56.919 and then says she's voting against this legislation and oh, 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.760 we need more comprehensive sex education. I said, wait, what, 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:05.080 where have the hell have you been? So I want 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:07.800 you to talk about how these things go hand in hand, 0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:11.760 how we see these attacks on education, how we see 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:15.000 these attacks on women, attacks on voting. And when you 0:24:15.080 --> 0:24:18.879 say we don't know what we don't know, it's strategic. 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:23.520 I mean, you know, I'm going to land the place 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.080 you and I always land, which is it's the culture, right. 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:31.959 I mean, we have this pathetic, pathetic cultural conversation around 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:36.719 women and childbirth in which every single movie ends with like, 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:41.320 you know, a dewey faced, blonde woman going and then 0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:43.720 the baby pops out and it's six months old, and 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:47.960 you know, her handsome, strapping partner is like, and now 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:50.480 we'll take it to a restaurant. You know, Like it's 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:56.520 so insane that any ring Carmone has written so gorgeously about, Like, actually, 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.400 here's what childbirth is like, it's not, in fact how 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:03.119 Hallmark movies end. And I think part of it is 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:08.280 just an massively impoverished cultural conversation. I you know, I 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:11.560 start the book the first chapter. There's two things in 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:13.359 the book that I think maybe answer some of this. 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.360 You know, when the court heard oral argument in Griswold 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:21.000 versus Connecticut, it was all men and they were so 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.600 freaked out. This is the case that was raised the 0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:27.360 issue of whether you could use contraception in the privacy 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:30.440 of a marriage, and the justices themselves, all men, were 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:33.960 so freaked out Danielle about talking about this that they 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:37.119 wouldn't name the devices. And so you go back and 0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:40.040 you read it and it's like a slip inside slide, 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:43.520 like Abbott and Costello comedy routine, where they're like, oh, 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.360 these devices and they you don't have to name them, 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:48.960 and they're all yucking it up, and it's like, if 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:52.800